I really hope that me talking about The Boys for less than a minute excited newcomers to my channel! I would say each of my videos are equally slanderous of your favorite TV show! I guess you have to watch them all now *sigh
Every time I see an evil superhero subversion and the writers like Snyder think their clever making their hero a dickhead they are just making villains just we see their pov
Welp, with this comment my only criticism of the video. Has been addressed invincible is a show. That while dark show’s heroes doing incredibly heroic thing. I look up to mark grayson dude goes though so much and still believes in and tries protect people. It doesn’t even really have anti hero message like the boys. Anyway good video dude
@@rances4418 I read the comics and yeah Mark goes through some real shit. The only difference is that in a way, he becomes that incorruptible Superman archetype by the end. The one who sees good in everyone, and only uses his power to help everyone. That doesn't make him immune to emotion heartache, or anger, but he always does his best to make it right. I think the intensity of Invincible is exactly what makes it the type of story that superheroes should be.
@@Iianator because it’s more interesting, people are more complicated than that. It’s not just about making the good guys bad, it’s show the real consequences of superhero culture.
I don’t think the boys is about “realistic superheroes,” it’s about modern corporate power and it’s sociopathic effects on human beings. It’s using the superhero genre because that’s what’s popular right now the same way it uses online discourse: it’s giving us a look at the world as it is, as opposed to most superhero content which is just pure morality play.
I looked at the original comic and it is nowhere as deep as the show. No the creator literally just hates superheroes and wants to see them massacred in the most ridiculous ways. It's extremely edgy and cynical
f you know about what inspired the comic idk if thats the takeaway. the maker of The Boys is garth einnis and is an example of what the content creator of the vid is talking about. It's incredibly cynical, and the original comic has even less to say than the show. the guy hates superheroes outside of batman, wonder woman and superman. he thinks the concept of superheroes sucks and waters down the comic industry to only having appeal to kids. The Boys is not all that deep of a parody of corruption, but of superhero media in general. Superheroes would be targets for being used as pawns and regulated by corporations and governments, theyd have a similar role as celebrities and the power they have over others would be much more material, and thats likely the mindset going into this. That's why their version of captian america is out of touch and offensive, why their superman sees himself as a god above everyone, and why their heroes indulge in debarchuary and get away with it, being protected, doing a ton of collateral damage, etc. because the idea inspiring the execution is that's how it'd actually be.
I disagree completely. I think if you give a lot of different people nearly unlimited power it corrupts them an ultimitied amount. I know it's a more simplistic take on the show but if you think about it look at the upper echelons of modern society we got people like Epstein running around people like Trump running the country even though he was close with Epstein not to make this a political thing but I mean come on we've seen how absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's pretty easy to make a logical conclusion that says that if you take someone and you give them superpowers that no one else has Fame and money they're probably going to end up being psychopaths simply by the nature of being so powerful and so wealthy and so untouchable.
@@jello6845 Which makes me glad I haven't read "The Boys..." After Crossed, I swore to never touch anything Garth Eniss created. And comments like this assure me that I made the right choice.
@@jello6845 I think the creator of the comics wanted the show to change some of that, he doesn’t hate them but just did “what if they were the most evil villains” and the show made it more interesting
I think your take on Thor still being worthy is reductive and too literal. When you suffer from depression, you start to feel incompetent and unworthy of anything positive in your life. Thor still being able to hold the hammer after giving up on his life shows that it's never too late to get back on the horse. That depressive episodes don't have to last forever, that you can come back.
@@danisanches9010 yeah I mean I think that’s why I didn’t really see it as they intended! They dealt with his depression arc during a movie that was so not about him and had about 50 other characters
I believe that Thor being able to call back the Hammer is also Odin his father telling him. Yes your still worthy. which is something he lost when Hela broke the hammer his father died and she crushed the hammer which was the last vestige of Odin he had any attachment to.
I think showing Thor going thru depression was a fantastic use of the character to make the world a better place. Also, the story didn't tear down the character- it humanized him and made him relatable.
Hot Take: Invincible is a Story of how you like Superheroes, but in a More Gorey Setting. I say this because it's about a 17 year old Boy becoming the Symbol of Hope for a World full of People that won't even come close to his Life Span. Invincible is called Invincible not because he has impenetrable Skin or anything like that, but because of his Undefeatable sense of Hope and Good Will in a Harsh World. Showing people to show Respect and Kindness even to the most Horrible people in the world (such as How he still loved his Father despite everything he's done to him and the world).
Invincible stands against everything the video talks about. While all omni-man cares about is beating the huge big threat like all the other marvel movies too, invincible looks to defend the small guy
When it comes to "the boys" It's not like it's lacking heroes either, Hughie and MM themself have been one for most of the show, most of the characters get corrupted by the world around them, and while Hughie had some lows, he is still a hero full of hope and belief in other people, he was the only person that still saw good in Butcher after everything.
@@jello6845 I wouldn't say all Marvel movies are like that. In the last Spider-Man, Peter is hell bound to help the villains of the film, despite the fact that it costs him literally everything. There are others, but I'm just going off recently.
@@jamesgarretson2922 true but it is a rarity these days. I'd love to see something like a proper Ben 10 live action or Batman Beyond live action as Terry is my favorite Batman
They boys is more of a criticism on actual cops, politicians and corporations than actual superheroes. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Most superhero stories allow us to pretend like that’s just not even an issue.
I looked at the original comic and it is nowhere as deep as the show. No the creator literally just hates superheroes and wants to see them massacred in the most ridiculous ways. It's extremely edgy and cynical
@@jakesevere9165 That's much more the focus in the comics as opposed to the TV show. While in the show the main focus is on the corporations and political aspects. Vought is the true villain while superheroes are mostly secondary. All except for homelander which is also one of the biggest threats
Im not sure how much I agree with “we got bored so we made superheroes sad sociopaths” (sorry for the reduced hypothesis). I think Nolan was absolutely trying to write a story that fit into your conception of a selfless superhero that could be looked up to, the only difference is he applied a film grammar we normally associate with crime thrillers, and intentionally came up with a villain who challenged Batman’s ideas down to his core
Yeah, but everyone knows that. The point of this is to show sometimes you have to make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. Super heroes are meant to be the ultimate good that is willing to do whatever it takes for good to prevail. If we don't show that sometimes it take the ultimate sacrifice (which is out life) to bring out good and justice then why would anyone ever go out of their way to help someone even if it means our life is at risk? This guy made some ok points in his video, but I think he completely missed the bigger picture of these different stories and of heroes as a whole.
I feel like its a bit unfair to dislike The Boys, purely because the heroes do bad things, and because it's violent. It isn't, Superman or Batman or Captain America, committing crazy crimes, and killing without a second thought. It isn't characters who were written to be heroes, being dragged out of character for the sake of shock value or to appeal to an edgier audience. Well, maybe that last part a little bit. They're characters, SEEN as heroes in their world, because they occasionally help people, and have super powers. An extremely evil person, can still do things to genuinely help people, or do good things to save face. Characters can be seen as superheroes in their world, and be the protagonists of a story, but still not be heroes in our eyes. We see the grand scope of everything they're doing, thinking, and going to do. Most of the boys cast, actively portray themselves in a heroic light, when they know the world is watching. They are loved and respected because they only try to show their best angles. The main difference is how DC and Marvel characters act all the time. I loved the scene in The Batman, at the very end, when Batman is helping injured survivors get medical assistance, in broad daylight, despite being on the GCPD's shitlist. That's Batman. That's heroic. He could have just left, and people woulda been like "hes not helping, cuz he'll get arrested" but he stayed, because he knew he could do a lot more good. No one in the boys would take a massive risk like that, to help random civilians they don't know. It's the disconnect between what the characters know and see, and what we the audience know and see. People calling The Boys a "dark superhero show" is technically correct, but they're only heroes, and symbols of inspiration, to those who don't know what they do behind the scenes.
Batman, Superman and Capt. America are not committing crimes they're saving lives. The villains are committing crimes what happens with the heroes is collateral and unfortunately cannot always be helped. The criminals are the problem not the heroes. They kill to protect it's not a bad thing. Killing is not immoral except when it's for malice and no valid reason.
@@TheUnseenPath a shit load of people would very much disagree with your opinion on penalty of death being justifiable, these arent really black and white issues moreso gray area issues
@@TheUnseenPath I think you missed what the original comment meant actually. When the commenter says "It isn't, Superman or Batman or Captain America, committing crazy crimes, and killing without a second thought" they are meaning the superheroes in The Boys that are the versions of Superman (Homelander), Batman (not really one here but you could argue Black Noir) and Captain America (Soldier Boy) that are doing that. The comment is arguing that The Boys isn't just about an evil version of Superman and Captain America etc, it's much more than that. The comment could have worded it a bit better so I understand your confusion, but i'm quite confident the comment didn't mean the actual Batman, Superman and Cap America cause they don't even kill and don't commit crazy crimes without remorse.
I don't like the boys because it's kinda offensive for me plus I have angry issues but they put so much effort in this show/comics so some people should like it and appreciate the hard work but not me of course, hey that's my option :)
I agree with most of the others here. a) Just because the story isn't about superheroes being genuine heroes doesn't make it a bad story. Case & Point the Boys. Which at times commentates on "modern corporate power" as EP H puts it, but at other times it criticizes the current state of superhero media. Other example are joker, Deadpool, invincible, watchmen, the dark knight trilogy, etc. All tackling their own stories about their own characters without bowing down to this one narrow story archetype you say makes superheroes "good". b) Just because a heroic act isn't relatable to the viewer doesn't make the act non-heroic.
Why can't we have both? Why can't writers just tell what they're good at/what they want to tell? If we have learned anything from the internet, there is a niche market for everything with the only factor being quality.
@@nomeatbag that's true after seeing people's fan films and stop motion films they're allowed to tell a story they want to tell without catering to the masses completely but it comes to some these movies the company takes control.
Your take on Iron Man only seems to take into account his activity with the Avengers, and not Iron Man 1, 2, and 3. Tony’s entire career is about *stopping* his production of mass produced weapons, because that’s what screwed him in the first place. It was his shrapnel missile that not only put him in a near death state, but also killed the man who saved his life. Not only that man (Yinsen), but also hundreds of thousands of people in third world countries by the use of terrorists. As soon as he breaks out of terrorist camp, he halts all of his weapon production, and instead focuses on the Iron Man armor - not to beat up bad guys for the sake of “cool explosions”, but to make up for the thousands he’s killed. Tony does have control issues, which is why he keeps the armor for himself, patens it, and saves the world in order to make up for literal generation’s of murder by Stark Industries. He actively solved an energy crisis in Avengers 1. He signs the Sokovia accords in Civil War because he knows he’s responsible for the lives Ultron killed. He has thousands of iron man suits sent out worldwide to help where he himself or the local authorities can not. He kills himself at the end of Endgame because Steve said he wasn’t the one to make a sacrifice play all the way back in Avengers 1. He’s finally putting an end to the alien that’s been in his head for over four films. He’s taking grenade, making the sacrifice play, taking responsibility for the now millions that have died due to his inaction (letting Thanos snap). These themes are what make Tony Stark, and these are reflected even in the way he teaches MCU Peter. He takes away *his suit,* teaches him to be better than he was, because he knows he full well wasn’t the messiah or saint starting out. He’s trying to make up for it, be a better man, teacher, and eventually hero. I can make a case for Capt as well, but I know Tony better as character than Steve. Moreover, a TL;DR explanation fits better in a TH-cam comment compared to an essay. There is something to look up to when looking at the Invincible Iron Man. The way he was portrayed here makes Tony out to be a man who likes blowing stuff up, when that in itself is a reduction to his character and arc.
I definitely agree with a lot of what you had to say and I don’t discredit his arc of taking responsibility for his company. That being said, he ends up making a lot more weapons over the rest of his run as a hero, though he is the one who controls them instead of it being the other way around. Even after ultron and iron man 3 where he destroys all of his suits, he goes back to being someone who fears losing control over the safety of others and in response, makes more and more advanced weapons. Which isn’t a bad story or character, in fact I really genuinely love iron man and all of his appearances in he marvel movies. But the depth of his story, in my opinion, doesn’t go much deeper than someone who feels regretful trying to make up for it, except his only way of fixing things is creating more destruction. Dying so others can live isn’t really the most nuanced way a hero can be heroic, and in fact it’s recently been poked at by self aware media that argues it seems like dying is most people’s default assumed solution. But in actuality, it’s often way harder to live on in a way that isn’t big and glamorous and in display for everyone to bare whiteness to.
@@MisterSweetProductions Holy shiz I actually got a reply. Thank you so much for taking the time to read the gibberish that is my petty analysis of fiction. I do wholeheartedly agree that in regard to nuance, Disney Marvel is rather lacking. It always ends with “save the world” at the end of the day, and personally I would much rather see things more along the lines of Spider-Man 2 and No Way Home’s methodology of displaying self sacrifice and thematic value. Both characters at one point in time didn’t simply lose a loved one, but rather their very identifies in response to the greater responsibilities that had to uphold. While I love Andrew Garfield to death and Gwen Stacy’s story from the comics - dead love interest only makes me feel so much after seeing it so many times. Tobey and Tom however (more so Tobey) break into full existential debates with their loved ones in regard to what’s they should uphold and what they reasonably can. Insomniac Spider-Man also touched on this theme with the death of Jefferson Davis. To what point does Spider-Man’s “there must also come great responsibility extend?” Past New York? Across dimensions? How much burden can one man reasonably hold himself accountable for in spite of their power? Civil War (the comic, not the film) is an excellent display of Peter’s debate with this issue. Never in the MCU do I except them to have Peter backing up his savings and calling his wife because the reveal of his identity has out him not only publicly and morally, but also financially at risk. NWH adapted this to a younger generation in regard to college, but nothing hit harder than seeing that panel of Peter on the plane - documents in hand attempting to come to grips with everything.
@@goldenaries0860 Haha no problem at all! I appreciated you taking the time to even watch my video, let alone write a thoughtful comment on it! And I absolutely agree with your take on Spiderman! I think Sam Raimi's Spiderman did such a good job of developing the limits of responsibility. Tobey Maguire's Spiderman has to accept that he isn't all powerful, but he also isn't powerless. He has do what good he can but only that which is within his means, otherwise he'll fall apart like he did in spiderman 2! Also I gotta read some of those comics you're talking about, they sound like they do such good job fleshing out his character and themes!
@@kingrm6656 I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts on these characters! This video essay is just about my perspective but it’s definitely not my “end-all/be-all” take on them
I disagree strongly with the invincible statement, because while invincible is very violent, I don’t think it ever gets super cynical because the heroes still want to save people and be good. It’s just you know, consequences are something real in this universe, but I do not think that invincible is cynical, no I think is a celebration of superheroes ( I am talking about the full story of the comic of course
Pretty much this exactly about Invincible. Without spoiling ahead from the comic, Mark makes a LOT of mistakes, but the end results are hopeful because he LEARNS from those mistakes, and becomes a better hero.
Marvel movies in particular seem to have become more comedic action than anything else. Just compare the first Iron man film to something like Thor Love and Thunder and its a night and day difference
The first iron man movie feels like it was apart of its own universe! So grounded and serious while being funny without downplaying the conflicts or removing tension! Almost like marvel’s Dark Knight
I think you didn't watch the show closely enough if you think it can be boiled down to "superheroes but bad." It may be true of the comics, but the Boys has so much more to say than that. Hell, they make it very clear by the end of the comics that the real villain is Butcher.
As a kid growing up in Nigeria in the 2000s, Superman was the first hero I was introduced to and he is also the most recognized superhero in my country. My dad bought me the Reeve movies and the Fleischer cartoons on VHS and I also discovered the Bruce Timm animated series (SUperman and Justice League). I love his heroism, his uplifting worldview, kindness, humility and his good morals. That made me an instant superman fan and I remain on to this day. When I emigrated to north America and got into comic books, I was surprised at how different he was than I remembered ad then the awful Zack SNyder movies came out and I just checked out. Turning him into a cynic and glorifed weapon of destruction is such an insult. These days I don't read American comics but I still watch the DVD of the Bruce Timm cartoons.
I loved STAS. Clark was witty, funny and still channeled that farm boy energy, and superman was practically perfected and embodied the character so well and what he represents. But I don't get why people hate MOS?
@@compatriot852 No they had to update his character because he was declining in popularity with younger generation. Superman was a product of his time with the older generation who were concerned about facism, communism, WW1&2, Cold War. So the good guys vs bad guys line was more defined in that context.
@@sahulianhooligan7046 they didnt update him they did a 180, there is nothing wrong with taking a different approach to a character but they all have defined characteristics and ideas: spider-man is awkward and has money problems, batman is broody and superman is uplifting. when the "different take betrays a characters defining features it stops being that character, which is why snyder's superman isnt superman
@@sahulianhooligan7046 but that wasn’t what those wars were they weren’t just bad Vs good they were multiple groups all vying for control over massive areas of land
Don’t really agree with most of these since a lot of these heroes are meant to be more human and flawed and eventually learn to become heroic as well as the responsibilities that come with it, but there are times where they’re still bland, either because the story makes them a blank slate action hero or makes them flawed, but doesn’t develop them. The boys was more of “what if superheroes were just products that think “super” makes up for lack of hero” and Invincible is actually more of a traditional superhero story but it’s just that it pulls off the “dad is the twist villian” really well.
Thank you!! Finally, someone who has a brain and common sense. It’s like these people who make cringy "deep analysis" videos completely miss the whole point of the show. It’s not that superheroes = bad, it is much more than that. Like what you said, it is about how giving superpowers to random normal people can easily corrupt them over time and use them for their benefit. But no, this man purposely dismissed all of the boy’s themes for the sake of cash and revenue. I mean, he even admitted himself. The dude watched the Boys for the first time in its entirety and saw a gore scene, after which he deemed the show "edgy" because it hit him with the reality of the sad truth about our world: no matter how good you are, humans don’t deserve superpowers. You could be the purest human being with superpowers, but if left unchecked, it could easily corrupt you. Look at all the celebrities and corporations in real life; they're praised and viewed as gods or divine beings just like the boys when it comes to superheroes, but in reality, every one of them has a controversy, a dark side, a very bad past that affected people in some way or did something bad privately that the public doesn't know about, so they try to cover it up so it doesn't ruin their reputation. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the many problems I have with this guy's video. Don’t even get me started on his response to the people who clearly debunked or called him out on one of his points down in the comment sections, whether it be from projecting or gaslighting the person with his pretentious smug attitude as if he’s some kind of infallible god. But hey, what the hell do I know? I am just a random dude ranting about another guy’s horrible take. I just wanted to get this off my chest because the video is genuinely infuriating to watch.
Superhero movies used to people blessed with powers that could be used for good or evil but chose the hero path. They're here to inspire people to be better no matter what. Superhero movies now are power fantasy filled with memes so people can relate to them.
It sometimes feels like modern media and sometimes fans are so focused on subverting expectations of super heroes, that they forgot what made superheores so beloved in the first place.
if i had to say one thing it would be : Super heroes are no longer relatable. They aren't going through issues that I'm going through. And when they do, they go through such a turned up version of it... that I cant relate anymore.
Not all superheroes have to be relatable thought. They just have to be good written and enjoyable characters, being relatable doesn't make someone a good character
The part where Strange forces a person to punch himself multiple times with a magic trick in Doctor Strange 2 is so incredibly fucked up and i'm still shocked that nobody is talking about that part, starting to think that the majority of MCU writers are freaking sociopaths.
Dr Strange is a dickhead in case you havent realized this yet. Becoming a sorcerer didnt really change who he was, and Dr Strange 2 made no real attempt to change the character.
In my opinion, I really like the movie Superman: Man Of Tomorrow because Clark basically beats the antagonist of that film not through his fist, but through his words, his heart. I know a lot of people don't really like this movie, but to me it felt *very* much like a "Superman" story, if that makes sense.
This was a fantastic video, though I have to disagree on Invincible. A lot of people compare it to The Boys because it's gorey and shows just how fucked up it would be if Superman punched a normal person, but that's really only surface level. While The Boys is a critique of Superhero culture and how they're portrayed today, I believe that Invincible is actually more of a love letter to Superheroes. A lot of people tend to focus on the Omni-Man story arc, but at the shows core, it's about a teenage boy blessed with powers and trying his best to become the symbol of hope he always aspired to be. Initially wanting to be like his father, but coming into his own as a hero only he can be. Hell, in one of the episodes, he refused to help Titan take down Machine Head because he thought he was only good enough for large-scale events like extra-dimensional gods or gigantic natural disasters, but learns that through Titan's family and his own mother's advice that no injustice, however large or small, should be ignored. It's actually a shame that people don't talk about Mark's story enough.
@@MisterSweetProductions I recommend you read the comics while season 2 is still being made. Now that Nolan (Omni-Man) is off-world, it focuses far more on Invincible fighting villains, including an arch-nemesis of his
yeah. It places invincible in a gorey world to test his limits, and he ultimately comes out better for it. That's why he's called invincible. Cause no matter how many times he gets beaten down, he always gets back up and stands by his ideals, and makes his world a better place.
Great point about Mark! I think the Boys should be critiqued to be fair, a critique on gray nihilism. Black and white may be "boring' to some but last I checked superheroes is an escape and no one said they had to match our world. Why would anyone want to see a piece of media like our world when they are trying to escape it and complain how shitty it is.
I think your view on caps arc is a bit flawed though. It's not like he signed a contract to be a superhero and then *just* dipped. He served in the war, even sacrificed himself for the sake of his loved ones, woke up out of time and still chose to be a superhero when the time needed him, watched his lover who's aged without him die, broke a precious friendship to redeem his scarred friend who didn't really get a chance to live his life, struggled with failing to save lives only to in turn contribute to give those same lives a second chance. I don't think "go back in time to get married" is a bad moral, I think you're just taking his arc a bit out of context, he honestly deserves that retirement, that peace. If his story has anything to say about itself it would be "to know when to serve", I think spending time for yourself is a good moral especially after all that and it's not like he'd be selfish about it, he's a healthy guy by now
I absolutely refuse to believe that Cap would do that though, pretty much his entire arc was about saving Bucky and after that happens he kind of just leaves him to go he with a woman whom he watched die
@@loganr6203 his entire arc is not pretty much to save bucky. he didn't even know he was alive until civil war and he did save bucky and that wasn't just any woman, that was the woman of his life
I actually like the Boys. I don't mind the hardcore, gratuitous, almost-nihilistic vibe to it. I say 'almost' because I do have a limit. I have mixed feelings about Invincible. I read the comics and it's........very heavy. It's a superhero story written by the same guy who wrote the Walking Dead comics. Make of that what you will. But I will say that the ending of the first episode was the closest I've ever come to watching the Justice League being murdered before my very eyes and....I won't say that it broke something inside of me but it was a feeling that came very close to it. And I've watched Flashpoint Paradox I like dark superhero stories. But I also like watching heroes being actual heroes. I honestly don't see why we can't have both. But, jesus christ, it'd be nice if the non-dark superhero stories were actually written well and weren't goddamm cookie cutters. To this day, Young Justice and the Justice League animated tv series still remain my favourite superhero stories. It's just good writing
I find I love the Marvel movies that exist in isolation the most, when they’re self contained movies that feature a comic character rather than a piece of Marvel Cinematic Universe(TM)
Invincible has real heroes though, you should know that as a comic reader. It feels like a much more "real" story than something like the Avengers imo.
Wouldn’t say it’s nihilistic it’s more like a pure embodiment of narcissism. They value others lives so little due to their god complexes that they just don’t care.
@@joshuameadows4922 it doesn't tho it has all the same things look in the comics invincible is a lower scale marvel story it's planetary the first season just covered the first 20 some issues outta like 250? I forget the exact amount
I mean the boys is less a superhero story and more a vessel with which the writers deconstruct actual society and modern pop culture. It’s less “what if superman bad” and much more “what if superman was a corporate owned celebrity?” Unless it’s the comics, since Garth Ennis fucking despises super heroes with a burning passion, just absolutely fucking livid over there existence within comic books. Edit: also as a person who has read the invincible comics, it’s literally a story about unending will overcoming all adversary even in the face of great pain. Minor spoilers, but there’s a moment when mark defeats a vastly stronger foe through his sheer fucking will and determination, as well as caring for his loved ones. If that’s a cynical and depressing story and comparable to the boys then I don’t know what the fuck you want.
As someone who has also read the invincible comics, it’s really weird seeing people describe the show as it’s a show where superman is evil because that’s honestly such as small part of the comics story that I barely think of that because otherwise, the characters generally are genuinely heroic and the messed up parts mostly come from characters that are either villains, viltrumite fighting, or more morally ambiguous characters (*cough* Oliver *cough*)
I think this is why the Watchmen movie didn't quite stay in people's minds as long as now. Then once we did have a watchmen sequel, it was forgotten when people were watching the Boys. Watchmen for the superhero comics industry was mostly decades of pent up feelings of cookie-cutter superheroes being unleashed. But the movie came so early that it missed the point. The Boys (and Invincible) fill that niche in exactly the right time. And it shows that the movies are repeating what comics went through. If history is to repeat themselves, then that can only mean we are about to enter the 90's of super hero movies.Where to avoid looking unoriginal, they will throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. On the plus side, the ending to Spidey NWH has me excited for super hero movies again. Just to see an 18 year old kid from new york stick up for the little guy. We had our large-scale massive movies. Its time we downscale and remember who the heroes need to save.
The last segment gave me chills (the good kind) this was a well put essay and I hope new modern heros can adapt that is isn't just saving the world. It's about being there for someone.
My favourite work of fiction even above breaking bad, it's so refreshing that it's so unbiased about its issues, it makes me feel free while watching it
Spider-man 2 was the perfect superhero movie. All the other spider-man movies and material lives in its shadow. And, to a broader extent, all the other MCU movies do too.
I loved this video so much, it did put words in my mouth to describe this feeling I've been having with superheroes lately, where I started to get bored of watching supersoldiers fighting, losing a lot of the human take of the stories
This is one of the most sincere apologetics for heroism and goodness I have seen in a long time. Didn’t you get the memo that you are supposed to be detached and ironic and casually nihilistic? :-)
@@njm2699 I think what would be interesting is a hero that was not always good and did horrible things but at the end they change based on their world view and tons of other different factors turning them into a true hero.
@@gamercreature2587 that's kinda what i liked about the early deadpool comics quite honestly. His whole journey was exactly that...Now he's just funny meme guy unfortunately.
Love this, and really appreciate your thoughtful take! You expressed a lot of my own thoughts that I've never put words to. Hero stories at their best, demonstrate sacrificial love for others-not just action scenes between unredeemable 'bad guys' and incorruptible 'good guys'.
The day someone makes a goood, optimistic, hopefully sunny movie about Superman with a lot of passion and heart instead of the edgy hardcore deconstruction, that day my friends, the superhero landscape will change.
I don't know what to tell you but not everything has to be perfect go lucky, this is why I like the Snyder version you may have been flawed but he had tons of Hope for the future.
Like overly sarcastic productions said, it would be cool to see a grim dark world that hates him and wants him gone, and instead of breaking under the pressure he keeps being himself and tries to make the world a better place.
makes perfect sense how else the ones created these can attract attention if they dont match societies stereotypical ways of living and viewing the world justice itself is very relative so it all comes down to in what way one views the word justice itself
Very true! I think society’s nihilistic/pessimistic outlook is influenced by art and also itself influences art. It’s all very cyclical but there, in my opinion, doesn’t seem to be any optimism in the mix. I think that has had a pretty negative influence on people in general and could be remedied with a revitalization of classic hero’s vs what we have today which reinforce a vision of distrust and hopelessness
people got sick of superheroes once the franchise started getting milked, especially by MCU with 5 movies coming out each year... people like the Boys because it's more in grasp with reality... people like actual stories they can relate to
@@donellebullock7404 my point is relating to the whole situation that there is no good and evil in the world, there are money crazed people, broken people, people that go over moral values for a purpose, and it all comes down to the environment they live in
I don't know I found the boys to be really overrated. The only thing I liked in the show was soldier boy. Except that I seriously don't know why most people are so crazy about this show.
This perfectly articulates the reason I stopped liking the newer superhero movies!! I grew up with the wholesome, lesson teaching heroes and now it seems that what I see today is just purely based on action/fighting scenes with overpowered characters and a HEAVY dose of CGI.
If you’re so delusional that you think superhero’s have to be perfect, cookie cutter boring characters then idk what to tell you. It makes for worse movies.
@@BaronVonBielski If you're so delusional you think wholesome, lesson teaching heroes are perfect, cookie cutter boring characters then idk what to tell you. It makes for a worse you
The issues you have aren't with the superhero genre per se, but rather with the culture that is producing them. "A story about someone putting others before themselves" In a self centered culture this is not seen as a virtue. People want stories of personal empowerment, not charity and self-denial. People want affirmation of whatever it is they feel and desire, not a story that may imply something other than the self could be more important. "making the good guys bad" The audience hates the idea of a "good guy" as this poses a challenge, what if you don't have the characteristics of said "good guy"? Do you change or try to improve? No, as this is a cardinal sin to the ego. So instead you resentfully look for (create) every little flaw in the hero and twist them into villains. Now you can rest easy and say there are no "good guys" so I don't fall short, I'm fine just the way I am. People want the bar lowered, not raised.
This is so true, somehow I always knew this, but never actually thought about it until you put it in words. What a great analysis! Not saying this as a criticism, but in a neutral way, this is a reflection of society. Striving towards perfection vs I am good the way I am. I’m gonna save this.
I love superheros, I know some may say they're childish but stories like Daredevil, Batman, and Spider-man are perfect examples of what Superheros should be.
@@MisterSweetProductions I think he means if you are brave enough to deny your self another day in the light for anyone else your a hero which what Tony do
@@dieselmule2006 I could write a one sentence story about a hero dying. That doesn’t make it a good story. I could write a 1,000 page fluff piece wherein a hero dies. That doesn’t make it a good story. If the sacrifice isn’t built upon a well written story where the stakes of the sacrifice are meaningful, the sacrifice doesn’t matter. You could write a story about a man that gives up ice cream to a child who dropped their’s and make it have greater emotional weight than Tony’s death. This is all an opinion but that’s where mine is coming from.
@@MisterSweetProductions bro there were SIX movies exploring Iron man and in three he was obsessed with stopping the worst outcome from ocurring, his death is literally the same motive but in a grander scale i dont know HOW much more build up you need, you want 18 movies and 16 shows or something?
Whatever case Story of Superman in Superman and Lois is best I could imagine for the symbol. That submarine scene in China and Bridge falling during his time with family. He just nailed that moment. Tyler is perfect Superman in opinion as Clark Kent, as Superman and Karl El.
I had this conversation with my friends once about how western "entertainment" seems to be all about getting more depressed watching a show that talks about the worst aspects of life, like drugs, abuse, greed and etc, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of positives in making a show that can make actual good commentary on any problem, but nowadays people don't seem to want to have fun anymore, when a nice and silly movie, videogame or show comes out there will be a lot of people belittling it just because it's not a dark corrupted take on something, people disregard anime often because it's silly sometimes (and because it's animation) but they fail to realize that 1: just because something is silly sometimes it doesn't mean it's not deep or that it isn't a good story, and 2: not everything needs to be a deep commentary on society, not everything needs to be depressing, it's "entertainment", why people are so eager to get depressed these days is beyond my comprehension
Sad reality of our culture. And when you disagree with their opinions which I’m sure garner a lot of likes on social media you’re deemed a bad person. I say continue being yourself and different I still watch cartoons and innocent little shows. Having all that garbage in your mental at the end of the days does nothing to benefit you or your existence.
I agree fully and this is coming from someone who has battle depression and heavy trauma for over 20 years. My tolerance for depressing content has diminished. I know everyone is different and I had a period where I wanted everything as dark and grim because I thought it was more realistic and could relate to it. I do still enjoy some dark shows though like Arcane and Squid Game.
I think that Invincible walks a good line between silliness and seriousness, the violence isn't just for the sake of the violence. The Boys is a different story...
If you're referring to The Boys' comics I can't speak to that. From what I've heard it does just seem a lot more gritty and violent just because. In terms of the show I think "violence for the sake of violence" doesn't really do the show justice at all. While it's obvious that the violence is still amplified for fun, it's still _very_ purposeful, establishing character and theme. It draws attention to exactly how messed up the world is when power gets into the wrong hands, or just criticizes the idea of superpowers in general. The Supes' violence tends to be a result of lacking control, seeing regular people as inferiors, or emotional outbursts due to ability to ignore consequences. Some of it is a result of Compound V abuse, a clear metaphor for drug abuse. Alternatively, the regular characters also commit acts of violence, but for a different purpose. In this context it showcases the gritty path of vengeance and brings into question the morals of the resisting party. Aside from Butcher, who's portrayed as being Homelander's counterpart, the rest of the characters want out on the violence. It's just what they have to go through in order to reach their goals, and is essentially a question of whether the ends justify the means or whether the blood on their hands is worth throwing away their lives for. Essentially it functions as an obstacle and a narrative device, making characters question their actions and emphasizing the show's theme, that "nobody should have this kind of power."
The comics of the boys really is just “here’s a superhero similar to another comic character, they’re a pervert/ murderer. Now watch a British guy smash his face in”
The Boys comic is Garth Ennis’ giant edgy middle finger to the superhero genre where as the show is a commentary or satire on modern politics and corporations and how it effects everyday people
Well, the source material has a lot of silliness to it. But Garth Ennis style humor would not play out well on TV, so they nixed stuff like... i can't even say it here, it's pretty bad stuff. 😆 I guess the joust isn't so bad. Frenchie doing a joust in a bike with a French baguette. But that's also pretty racist, so not fit for TV either.
Hes mad that Aquaman killed a pirate who was murdering the crew of a submarine? 🤨 He uses Joss Whedon's version of Snyder film while calling it Snyders Justice League? 😖 The Boys isn't as popular the media makes it looks. He criticizes the Marvel films for being exactly what he wants them to be...😑 This is fluffy postmodern morality. Its sentimental with misplaced empathy
To be honest I love Invincible, and I love the Boys but I know what you mean. There should be heroes who fightfor good who have meaning in the World. And I think there is one Superhero movie who proves what makes Superheroes so great. Sam Raimis Spider-Man 2
Yeah I totally agree! I didn’t ever mean for this video to come off saying those shows are bad, just that as “heroes” there are fewer characters written to be looked up to as there once were! But invincible is even a pretty decent guy!
@@MisterSweetProductions I never ment to say that you don't like the Shows. What I ment was that you have to have "bad" Superheroes to relise that you need good superheroes.
I think the problem is most of the writers write themselves as the heroes and people they don’t like as the villains and are trying to live out a Revenge Fantasy like how the modern Strong female superheroes have unrealistically misogynistic male villains
Wow I really enjoyed this video. Dude , you get superheroes and mythology. As a writer, I’m working with an artist who loves modern portrayal of heroes in DC movies. He doesn’t understand why have my heroes going through the human experience and different emotions. He thinks heroes are just characters he draws on a page that should frown and punch people.
I think we have lost the way we look at superheroes, a lot of the time people always care about the flaws, relatability and conflict they have. But the original reason as to why we always liked superheroes is because of their inspirational nature. To be the better person, and always remaining hopeful is what keeps us alive and well today. It’s not lame to be a goody two shoes or to remain optimistic, it’s genuine. I truly hope Superman legacy redefines the term to what it once was.
*BE A HERO TO THOSE AROUND YOU EVERY DAY.* -I've been a "super hero"... answer enough 911 calls, spend enough nights in a marriage where you want to be there, but can't, because you might literally fucking die, on any given shift at work, and fight or die on a daily basis in the handful of jobs that bring such risk, and you change. And that is where things really get back to, isn't it? - A whole bunch of people who couldn't be heroes, because they are cowards, made movies about heroes, but are not heroes themselves. - They caused harm to innocents, in the name of political messages, nobody wanted to hear. Being a "Super Hero" sounds nice, but you don't need to be that special - you can be a plain old, vulnerable human body... and do great and good things, that *DEMONSTRATE HEROISM* - instead of ridiculing it. Taking your disabled neighbor's groceries up the stairs, when it hurts them to lift even a tomato soup can, matters to that person... do that. Real World Superheroes are around you, every day.
Plus throughout the Nolan Batman trilogy, multiple people tell him he can do more as the "Billionaire" Bruce Wayne than batman and Bruce finally gets it as you mentioned
It's interesting to compare superheroes to old myths. I think about how some gods were more like flawed super powered individuals. But it's a shame that we are both - somehow simultaneously - gentrifying and corrupting our superheroes; which function as modern day mythical deities.
Agreed! I think satire is necessary to tear down poorly established notions, but eventually, something new needs to be established. It feels like everyone is so afraid to claim anything as good or hopeful because we assume everything has some hidden, underlying evil! It’s a very hopeless outlook/worldview
Just because you can't pick up a hammer like Thor doesn't mean you can't learn anything from him. The first 1st Thor movie teaches of humility where Thor was banished to earth and literally had to climb from the mud to get his powers back. You may not relate to losing a loved one in space but you can relate or at least some people can to finding a family, people that accept you like the Guardians movie.
Yeah let's go back to the days where the tragedy behind superheroes is their own mental state and pain instead of just "haha I curse and I'm an asshole" being the "statement"
0:01 - the 2nd two characters in the thumbnail aren't heroes in the narrative - they're villains disguised as heroes. Invincible has at least 3 straight-up heroes, plus the original Guardian team as far as we're told. 0:02 Brie is punching a bad guy because her powers let her see past superficial appearances. While Superman is waiting for that one woman there's, on average, one or two murders or serious assaults in a city that size,
I think for a representation of this argument we can look to the conflict between superman and Lex Luthor. Lex is a cynic who believes wholeheartedly that there is some part of superman that is evil. Lex cannot comprehend that with the massive power Superman holds that he isn’t corrupted by it or abuses it for his own gain. He can’t comprehend that superman wouldn’t use his powers to steal a better life just for himself - that superman wouldn’t evolve to have a god-like ego. Lex can’t comprehend the idea of a superhero and so can never truly become one himself. Even when he dons a super suit with the s logo stapled onto it. For a great closer, look no further to all-Star superman. The story in which Superman is dying due to.. sun cancer and attempts to write every wrong that he knows before his death, one of these wrongs being Lex’s outlook. At some point during the story Lex is given a taste as to what it’s like to be superman and the moment he gets it, he’s addicted to the point where he begs superman to give him another taste (“please, please, with that power I could change the world! I could cure cancer”) but superman doesn’t give in, instead using it to send one last message to superman - power doesn’t make a Superhero (“you could’ve always cured cancer Lex, you just never tried”). And Lex listens (“You’re right”). He listens and realises the battle he’s been fighting was for naught - he realises the concept of a superhero and understands what it truly means to be one.
It's really eerie at how many people in here are getting emotional at this video sound exactly like your description of Lex Luthor and even scarier is that they don't even see it
Really interesting video. Although there are a few things that I think could be expanded upon. First, the mythology comparison is kind of weird in my opinion, because mythological characters were usually anything but heroic. They were extremely human, extremely flawed and most of the time, more cruel and selfish than they had any right to be. If anything, modern heroes are trying to come as close as possible to the mythological heroes, showing people with incredible power but with all the possible negatives that come with being human. Most of them fail, I agree. But there's also a lot of context to superheroes and how they evolved. Superheroes evolved alongside the society they represented, as people started to notice the cracks in the system, the heroes that were protecting that system started to fumble as well. Works like Watchmen showed how broken superheroes could be and how the power they wielded could be used for better or worse. The boys is just that idea taken to the absolute extreme. And while it's true that superheroes have gotten darker, I think they're actually the most interesting and diverse they've ever been. While stuff like The Boys shows the possible darkness behind the concept of a super-powered individual, any form of the Spiderman movies keeps hitting the right notes when it comes to representing the person of Peter Parker and his struggle as a high-school kid trying to super his way through life. That is why I think the Spiderman movies and Tony Stark are some of the most beloved MCU characters. Spiderman usually fights some smaller, more contained threat that is in turn very important to Peter and to who he is and where he stands in life. On the other hand, Tony Stark resonates with people because we see him transform from an asshole with superpowers to an actual hero, struggling with himself and his past experiences and still willing to go on. Other MCU characters don't reach that high of classic heroism sadly. Then there's Invincible, that mixes the dark world of cynical modern superheroes with a protagonist always trying (and failing often) to do the right thing. Honestly I think the worst form of superhero media currently is the Marvel and DC comics, caught in a panic and desperately trying to speak to a new audience with whom they have no connection to, with writers that try to push themselves above the classics without understanding what made them classic in the first place and a misguided idea that just inserting representation without putting in the work to make good characters or adhere to the logic of established ones can make a good story. All because they're scared of the ever-rising popularity of manga. Funnily enough, manga has probably the best "baby's first superhero story" on the market in the form of MHA. A fun story, not complex, but filled with the idealism and struggle that help build heroes in people's minds. Then again, Marvel did just win the whole game by releasing the greatest story ever conceived, reaching an apex that will and cannot ever be surpassed #Morbiussweep
Honestly excellent points throughout! Thanks for taking the time to write this I very much agree! Also just finished my tattoo of morbius from my back to my bellybutton! #morbiusfever
I think the comics are better than you think, though. The original Miss Marvel comic run does the whole "Self-contained, small threats with focus on character development" VERY well.
I agree I'd like to see more light hearted super hero shows like in the old days, but I disagree that we need to lose the dark and gritty shows all together. The Boys is possibly one of the greatest shows of our generation and I think shows like invincible while having more of a light hearted message, is still dark and I think they work extremely well. Its refreshing to see superheros who arent just these empty shells who are just heroic and selfless, the perfect people.
@@train123z Damn this was a year ago I dont even remember what the video was about, but I can give you some depending on what you mean. Do you mean the heroes in the video or?
I must admit, I was clickbaited. I saw the boys and thought "There is no way this man thinks any of the "heroes" in the boys are heroes. However, I really wanted to know your thoughts, so I clicked. I really enjoyed this video. I loved how you were respectful in your take and felt like you were stating your point in a conversation. I agreed with some of your takes, like with superman, batman, and spiderman and what they stand for. However, for the boys, I don't feel they just turned the good guys bad and the bad guys good. I believe there is more nuisance to it than that. I don't believe there are supposed to be many heroes in the boys. I could be reading way too much into this or interpreting this wrong and I apologize for that. This was a great video and I look forward to witnessing your opinions on things in the future.
This video has a very “back in the day” vibe. By that I mean it takes a very nostalgic rose colored look at the superheroes of the past while not taking into account that these “dark gritty” stories have been a part of the superhero canon for years. Deconstructionist super stories like The Boys aren’t new. Even if we were to go all the way back to Greek mythology like you did in this video, it is full of selfish petty characters who were supposed to see as heroic or godlike (Hercules story starts with him killing his wife and kids, not through his own moral failing but because Hera basically possessed him.) Myths can teach us how to nobly and “heroicly” get through adversity, but they also have historically been a vehicle for exploring the scariest parts of our humanity. If you don’t like new superhero movies cause they’re badly written and too dark for your tastes, that’s perfectly fair, but I think it’s highly reductive to say superheroes are getting worse (one of the example you used for how dark super movies are getting was Chris Nolan’s Dark Knight. The comic it was based on, “The Killing Joke”, was printed and released in 1988).
this, comic have been pretty edgy since at least the 80's. it's just that the movies about comics in the 80's were light hearted and more people are familiar with that.
It's because everything has to be a deconstruction or subversion. Hollywood thinks (maybe rightfully so) that modern audiences are bored of the always virtuous hero. Look at other genres not just super heroes. Most action movies have this problem too
The issue with subversion and deconstruction, is that you can't deconstruct or subvert something that is already a deconstruction or a subversion. It just doesn't work. People seem to forget that superman is a subversion of the idea might makes right. He was literally created in response to the idea of the nazi German übermench aka superman.
nowadays super heroes aren't about telling a story about a hero it's about exploiting the modern fear of living a worthless, boring life, completely forgotten within a few years of your death
Loved this video. You perfectly put into video how I have been feeling the past 10 years with these "heroes" in entertainment now. I still read my classics and watch the older cartoons with my family. Thank you & keep up the great work.
Well dang, didn't have to go getting me all emotional this morning! I love the points you made and I really agree with most of them. I do think some of the Marvel movies have gotten better. Take Ant Man for example. It's basically just a heist movie, but with super heroes. A good super hero movie should just be another genre type movie, but with a hero in it. That's my two cents. Either way, thanks for the content :)
As a fan of the genre since seeing Batman 89 in theatres as a kid there’s always been good and bad superhero movies, and mostly really bad, and in general most movies are bad, but every now and then there’s one that truly hits on all levels, like no way home, and it leaves you wading thru the crap to find the next good one
This is why I think invincible has so much potential because it is fully aware of the dark nature of our world and all the twisted shit that happens in it, yet it still remains hopeful and even when that hope dies for a time (talking about the comic) it will return later because its the only way to bring a better world
I mean Captain America jumped on the fake grenade shows natural capacity for good showing he would save anyone regardless of if they respect him or not ( witch they didn’t at that point) showing us that we need to help everyone regardless of how we feel about them( all this achieved in 1 scene)
Depends on the individual. Sure, in modern context, many people would become frauds or go too far, but there are those who would try their best to help those in need of it There are many criminals in this world, even amongst groups like the police or military, but there's also plenty of cops who do good work.
I like both the boys and invincible because of the unfiltered view of morality it potrays. Morality is a very complex issue and the journey towards it is not always clean but more often a dirty and very bloody road. I also like how protagonists constantly get messed up both emotionally and physically, not because of any sadistic pleasure linked to it but it also emphasizes the struggle of trying to preserve the values of being a good person in a corrupted world against people try to preserve their own interpretation of what a good person is. It even gets more interesting when some folks know what they're doing is wrong but do it anyway because it's socially acceptable and, it brings about the question of, is it worth doing the right thing if you're going to be hated for it especially if your goal is to be loved?
I totally agree with you! Thank you so much! I struggle with modern heroes because I don’t feel them as that’s heroic. Before, heroes had flaws, struggles but an indubitable sense of justice. They were kind, sensitive and strong. They were amazing role models. Now it’s so ambiguous. Nowadays I feel that people think those heroes have set the bar too high so for them to be able to reach it, heroes have to lower their standards. So they have to be more “human”. Like come on! They are already human. They just are at the peak of humanity. Even if I understand this statement, I think people have forgotten the most important point and it is that a story is made to teach a lesson. To give an ideal to follow, a model. The principle of an ideal is that it has to be difficult to reach. That’s why you have to make efforts every day to get close to it. I feel many people are just too lazy nowadays. They want easily reachable ideals so they don’t have to make too many efforts so they wouldn’t get frustrated because of their laziness. I have no problem with a hero having trauma but no matter his trauma, he has to overcome it to inspire others, that’s why he is a hero. I know it’s difficult but inspiration to succeed in something comes by seeing someone else succeed at this. If a show depicts a MC with trauma who ends up doing horrible stuff (for bad reasons I precise) then sorry but this guy is not a hero and I don’t want him to be a role model. His story is just a good-to-know story about how people can turn evil if they are traumatised at some extends but it’s not the story of a hero. I’ve heard so many people talking about how this character is boring, how he is just a “good guy”, he has no flaws, how his behaviour is so cliché. It’s so annoying! I understand some people are looking for new experiences but at some point, they just want to be entertained not found inspiration to improve themselves. That’s why heroes like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Kenshiro or Vash the Stampede would be always the best.
"Captain America goes back to live a married life" after saving billions, no trillions of lives from the combined damage that would've been caused by Loki, Ultron, Hydra, and undoing Thanos' snap
This is why the Batman is my favorite recent superhero movie because it starts off with Batman explaining what we expect of him that he is vengeance and almost like an antihero. By the end of the movie Batman learns that’s not what makes him a hero and that’s not the way to save Gotham vengeance isn’t heroic it just fuels the cycle. Batman learns that he needs to be a symbol of hope and he does this by focusing not on the criminals but by staying and helping the police save the people stuck in that stadium.
I think you have some valid points here but your points on Iron Man are wrong his story is about a alcoholic arms dealer learning what it means to be selfless and do what’s right no matter the cost which did lead him to take things to far but he did what he had to do to solve that issue and realized the errors in his marvels super hero’s are still people and some of them are not that great but when it comes down to the wire they make right decisions
Invincible is actually a pretty cool exception in a weird way. The violence is gratuitous and the villains legitimately evil but the heroes are actual heroes. Mark constantly gets beaten down and keeps getting back up to save people, even when it's his own father beating him down. Atom Eve seems to have at least temporarily stopped fighting villains but hasn't stopped using her powers to help people. The justice-league knock-offs Omni-Man killed were legitimately badasses and did everything they could to minimize civilian casualties while taking out villains. When their replacements fall short by putting the beating of the villain over protecting people they're chastised for it and show remorse, suggesting we can only expect them to improve on that. It does "realistic superheroes" without removing the "heroes" part of that.
They just want to impress. It's not about sending a good message to people anymore, it's about being attractive to the masses to get more money. They excuse themselves with "We just want to make something different" and yes, they're free to do so, but it's not impossible to give a good message at the end of the day, no matter the age rating of the movie/show
I think it’s possible that they are trying to make heroes more human to connect with the audience but idk if that’s the best option. Sometimes it’s good to create a relationship between the 2 but also a hero should be someone that can create a perfect example who doesn’t do anything putting people in harm.
That's the problem they're not making them more "human". Superheroes have the same problem "zombie" content has. It is ALWAYS humans that become the monsters. Then those "empowered" must fight themselves and not the real threats.
The Boys, Invincible, Watchmen are not a problem in my view... the problem is taking an established hopeful character like Superman and making him 'dark' because it is trending.
I disagree with you putting invincible like that. Invincible has more gore than normal, yes. But at it's core it's still a very traditional superhero story. The ending of "You dad. I still have you dad." Didn't pull on your heart?
I'm starving for heroism in my medium. Thank you for actually pointing it out. Most of what you said was just plain truth. I'm tired of people with powers, I want heroes.
I really hope that me talking about The Boys for less than a minute excited newcomers to my channel!
I would say each of my videos are equally slanderous of your favorite TV show! I guess you have to watch them all now *sigh
Every time I see an evil superhero subversion and the writers like Snyder think their clever making their hero a dickhead they are just making villains just we see their pov
Welp, with this comment my only criticism of the video. Has been addressed invincible is a show. That while dark show’s heroes doing incredibly heroic thing. I look up to mark grayson dude goes though so much and still believes in and tries protect people. It doesn’t even really have anti hero message like the boys. Anyway good video dude
@@rances4418 thank you!
@@rances4418 I read the comics and yeah Mark goes through some real shit. The only difference is that in a way, he becomes that incorruptible Superman archetype by the end. The one who sees good in everyone, and only uses his power to help everyone. That doesn't make him immune to emotion heartache, or anger, but he always does his best to make it right. I think the intensity of Invincible is exactly what makes it the type of story that superheroes should be.
@@Iianator because it’s more interesting, people are more complicated than that. It’s not just about making the good guys bad, it’s show the real consequences of superhero culture.
I don’t think the boys is about “realistic superheroes,” it’s about modern corporate power and it’s sociopathic effects on human beings. It’s using the superhero genre because that’s what’s popular right now the same way it uses online discourse: it’s giving us a look at the world as it is, as opposed to most superhero content which is just pure morality play.
I looked at the original comic and it is nowhere as deep as the show. No the creator literally just hates superheroes and wants to see them massacred in the most ridiculous ways. It's extremely edgy and cynical
f you know about what inspired the comic idk if thats the takeaway. the maker of The Boys is garth einnis and is an example of what the content creator of the vid is talking about. It's incredibly cynical, and the original comic has even less to say than the show. the guy hates superheroes outside of batman, wonder woman and superman. he thinks the concept of superheroes sucks and waters down the comic industry to only having appeal to kids.
The Boys is not all that deep of a parody of corruption, but of superhero media in general. Superheroes would be targets for being used as pawns and regulated by corporations and governments, theyd have a similar role as celebrities and the power they have over others would be much more material, and thats likely the mindset going into this. That's why their version of captian america is out of touch and offensive, why their superman sees himself as a god above everyone, and why their heroes indulge in debarchuary and get away with it, being protected, doing a ton of collateral damage, etc. because the idea inspiring the execution is that's how it'd actually be.
I disagree completely. I think if you give a lot of different people nearly unlimited power it corrupts them an ultimitied amount. I know it's a more simplistic take on the show but if you think about it look at the upper echelons of modern society we got people like Epstein running around people like Trump running the country even though he was close with Epstein not to make this a political thing but I mean come on we've seen how absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's pretty easy to make a logical conclusion that says that if you take someone and you give them superpowers that no one else has Fame and money they're probably going to end up being psychopaths simply by the nature of being so powerful and so wealthy and so untouchable.
@@jello6845
Which makes me glad I haven't read "The Boys..." After Crossed, I swore to never touch anything Garth Eniss created. And comments like this assure me that I made the right choice.
@@jello6845 I think the creator of the comics wanted the show to change some of that, he doesn’t hate them but just did “what if they were the most evil villains” and the show made it more interesting
I think your take on Thor still being worthy is reductive and too literal.
When you suffer from depression, you start to feel incompetent and unworthy of anything positive in your life. Thor still being able to hold the hammer after giving up on his life shows that it's never too late to get back on the horse. That depressive episodes don't have to last forever, that you can come back.
That’s a great perspective! I didn’t think about it like that!
@@danisanches9010 yeah I mean I think that’s why I didn’t really see it as they intended! They dealt with his depression arc during a movie that was so not about him and had about 50 other characters
@@danisanches9010 absolutely! They also seem to treat his depression as a joke too!
I believe that Thor being able to call back the Hammer is also Odin his father telling him. Yes your still worthy. which is something he lost when Hela broke the hammer his father died and she crushed the hammer which was the last vestige of Odin he had any attachment to.
I think showing Thor going thru depression was a fantastic use of the character to make the world a better place.
Also, the story didn't tear down the character- it humanized him and made him relatable.
Hot Take: Invincible is a Story of how you like Superheroes, but in a More Gorey Setting.
I say this because it's about a 17 year old Boy becoming the Symbol of Hope for a World full of People that won't even come close to his Life Span.
Invincible is called Invincible not because he has impenetrable Skin or anything like that, but because of his Undefeatable sense of Hope and Good Will in a Harsh World. Showing people to show Respect and Kindness even to the most Horrible people in the world (such as How he still loved his Father despite everything he's done to him and the world).
Wonderfully said. Invincible is one of my favorite comics of all time, and Mark Grayson is one hell of a hero.
Invincible stands against everything the video talks about. While all omni-man cares about is beating the huge big threat like all the other marvel movies too, invincible looks to defend the small guy
When it comes to "the boys" It's not like it's lacking heroes either, Hughie and MM themself have been one for most of the show, most of the characters get corrupted by the world around them, and while Hughie had some lows, he is still a hero full of hope and belief in other people, he was the only person that still saw good in Butcher after everything.
@@jello6845 I wouldn't say all Marvel movies are like that. In the last Spider-Man, Peter is hell bound to help the villains of the film, despite the fact that it costs him literally everything.
There are others, but I'm just going off recently.
@@jamesgarretson2922 true but it is a rarity these days. I'd love to see something like a proper Ben 10 live action or Batman Beyond live action as Terry is my favorite Batman
They boys is more of a criticism on actual cops, politicians and corporations than actual superheroes. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Most superhero stories allow us to pretend like that’s just not even an issue.
I looked at the original comic and it is nowhere as deep as the show. No the creator literally just hates superheroes and wants to see them massacred in the most ridiculous ways. It's extremely edgy and cynical
@cokelover9001 I am bringing insight to the commenter about the original comic. In the comic it's just an edgy rant against superheroes
mmm nope it’s definitely a criticism and satire on the over saturated superhero genre lmao. let’s not pretend like that’s just some background aspect.
@@jakesevere9165 That's much more the focus in the comics as opposed to the TV show. While in the show the main focus is on the corporations and political aspects. Vought is the true villain while superheroes are mostly secondary. All except for homelander which is also one of the biggest threats
@@jello6845 but nobody asked. So your comment is pointless.😐
Im not sure how much I agree with “we got bored so we made superheroes sad sociopaths” (sorry for the reduced hypothesis). I think Nolan was absolutely trying to write a story that fit into your conception of a selfless superhero that could be looked up to, the only difference is he applied a film grammar we normally associate with crime thrillers, and intentionally came up with a villain who challenged Batman’s ideas down to his core
“Doing good does not have to come at a complete sacrifice of your life because people love you.” That’s just gold right there
Yeah, but everyone knows that. The point of this is to show sometimes you have to make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. Super heroes are meant to be the ultimate good that is willing to do whatever it takes for good to prevail. If we don't show that sometimes it take the ultimate sacrifice (which is out life) to bring out good and justice then why would anyone ever go out of their way to help someone even if it means our life is at risk? This guy made some ok points in his video, but I think he completely missed the bigger picture of these different stories and of heroes as a whole.
I feel like its a bit unfair to dislike The Boys, purely because the heroes do bad things, and because it's violent. It isn't, Superman or Batman or Captain America, committing crazy crimes, and killing without a second thought. It isn't characters who were written to be heroes, being dragged out of character for the sake of shock value or to appeal to an edgier audience. Well, maybe that last part a little bit. They're characters, SEEN as heroes in their world, because they occasionally help people, and have super powers. An extremely evil person, can still do things to genuinely help people, or do good things to save face. Characters can be seen as superheroes in their world, and be the protagonists of a story, but still not be heroes in our eyes. We see the grand scope of everything they're doing, thinking, and going to do. Most of the boys cast, actively portray themselves in a heroic light, when they know the world is watching. They are loved and respected because they only try to show their best angles. The main difference is how DC and Marvel characters act all the time. I loved the scene in The Batman, at the very end, when Batman is helping injured survivors get medical assistance, in broad daylight, despite being on the GCPD's shitlist. That's Batman. That's heroic. He could have just left, and people woulda been like "hes not helping, cuz he'll get arrested" but he stayed, because he knew he could do a lot more good. No one in the boys would take a massive risk like that, to help random civilians they don't know. It's the disconnect between what the characters know and see, and what we the audience know and see. People calling The Boys a "dark superhero show" is technically correct, but they're only heroes, and symbols of inspiration, to those who don't know what they do behind the scenes.
Batman, Superman and Capt. America are not committing crimes they're saving lives. The villains are committing crimes what happens with the heroes is collateral and unfortunately cannot always be helped. The criminals are the problem not the heroes.
They kill to protect it's not a bad thing. Killing is not immoral except when it's for malice and no valid reason.
@@TheUnseenPath a shit load of people would very much disagree with your opinion on penalty of death being justifiable, these arent really black and white issues moreso gray area issues
@@TheUnseenPath I think you missed what the original comment meant actually. When the commenter says "It isn't, Superman or Batman or Captain America, committing crazy crimes, and killing without a second thought" they are meaning the superheroes in The Boys that are the versions of Superman (Homelander), Batman (not really one here but you could argue Black Noir) and Captain America (Soldier Boy) that are doing that. The comment is arguing that The Boys isn't just about an evil version of Superman and Captain America etc, it's much more than that. The comment could have worded it a bit better so I understand your confusion, but i'm quite confident the comment didn't mean the actual Batman, Superman and Cap America cause they don't even kill and don't commit crazy crimes without remorse.
I don't like the boys because it's kinda offensive for me plus I have angry issues but they put so much effort in this show/comics so some people should like it and appreciate the hard work but not me of course, hey that's my option :)
@@TheUnseenPath did you even read the comment?
I agree with most of the others here.
a) Just because the story isn't about superheroes being genuine heroes doesn't make it a bad story. Case & Point the Boys. Which at times commentates on "modern corporate power" as EP H puts it, but at other times it criticizes the current state of superhero media. Other example are joker, Deadpool, invincible, watchmen, the dark knight trilogy, etc. All tackling their own stories about their own characters without bowing down to this one narrow story archetype you say makes superheroes "good".
b) Just because a heroic act isn't relatable to the viewer doesn't make the act non-heroic.
I mean Invincible is very much so a hero who goes though alot of shit yet never giving up. Just the shit he goes through it ultra violent and shit.
Why can't we have both? Why can't writers just tell what they're good at/what they want to tell? If we have learned anything from the internet, there is a niche market for everything with the only factor being quality.
@@dontburstmybubble686 Because money. Not for the writers, for the corporation they are working for.
I The Batman, Invincible and The Boys are proof that statement
@@nomeatbag that's true after seeing people's fan films and stop motion films they're allowed to tell a story they want to tell without catering to the masses completely but it comes to some these movies the company takes control.
Your take on Iron Man only seems to take into account his activity with the Avengers, and not Iron Man 1, 2, and 3.
Tony’s entire career is about *stopping* his production of mass produced weapons, because that’s what screwed him in the first place. It was his shrapnel missile that not only put him in a near death state, but also killed the man who saved his life. Not only that man (Yinsen), but also hundreds of thousands of people in third world countries by the use of terrorists.
As soon as he breaks out of terrorist camp, he halts all of his weapon production, and instead focuses on the Iron Man armor - not to beat up bad guys for the sake of “cool explosions”, but to make up for the thousands he’s killed. Tony does have control issues, which is why he keeps the armor for himself, patens it, and saves the world in order to make up for literal generation’s of murder by Stark Industries.
He actively solved an energy crisis in Avengers 1.
He signs the Sokovia accords in Civil War because he knows he’s responsible for the lives Ultron killed.
He has thousands of iron man suits sent out worldwide to help where he himself or the local authorities can not.
He kills himself at the end of Endgame because Steve said he wasn’t the one to make a sacrifice play all the way back in Avengers 1. He’s finally putting an end to the alien that’s been in his head for over four films. He’s taking grenade, making the sacrifice play, taking responsibility for the now millions that have died due to his inaction (letting Thanos snap).
These themes are what make Tony Stark, and these are reflected even in the way he teaches MCU Peter. He takes away *his suit,* teaches him to be better than he was, because he knows he full well wasn’t the messiah or saint starting out. He’s trying to make up for it, be a better man, teacher, and eventually hero.
I can make a case for Capt as well, but I know Tony better as character than Steve. Moreover, a TL;DR explanation fits better in a TH-cam comment compared to an essay. There is something to look up to when looking at the Invincible Iron Man. The way he was portrayed here makes Tony out to be a man who likes blowing stuff up, when that in itself is a reduction to his character and arc.
I definitely agree with a lot of what you had to say and I don’t discredit his arc of taking responsibility for his company. That being said, he ends up making a lot more weapons over the rest of his run as a hero, though he is the one who controls them instead of it being the other way around. Even after ultron and iron man 3 where he destroys all of his suits, he goes back to being someone who fears losing control over the safety of others and in response, makes more and more advanced weapons.
Which isn’t a bad story or character, in fact I really genuinely love iron man and all of his appearances in he marvel movies. But the depth of his story, in my opinion, doesn’t go much deeper than someone who feels regretful trying to make up for it, except his only way of fixing things is creating more destruction. Dying so others can live isn’t really the most nuanced way a hero can be heroic, and in fact it’s recently been poked at by self aware media that argues it seems like dying is most people’s default assumed solution. But in actuality, it’s often way harder to live on in a way that isn’t big and glamorous and in display for everyone to bare whiteness to.
@@MisterSweetProductions
Holy shiz I actually got a reply.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read the gibberish that is my petty analysis of fiction.
I do wholeheartedly agree that in regard to nuance, Disney Marvel is rather lacking. It always ends with “save the world” at the end of the day, and personally I would much rather see things more along the lines of Spider-Man 2 and No Way Home’s methodology of displaying self sacrifice and thematic value.
Both characters at one point in time didn’t simply lose a loved one, but rather their very identifies in response to the greater responsibilities that had to uphold. While I love Andrew Garfield to death and Gwen Stacy’s story from the comics - dead love interest only makes me feel so much after seeing it so many times. Tobey and Tom however (more so Tobey) break into full existential debates with their loved ones in regard to what’s they should uphold and what they reasonably can. Insomniac Spider-Man also touched on this theme with the death of Jefferson Davis.
To what point does Spider-Man’s “there must also come great responsibility extend?” Past New York? Across dimensions? How much burden can one man reasonably hold himself accountable for in spite of their power? Civil War (the comic, not the film) is an excellent display of Peter’s debate with this issue. Never in the MCU do I except them to have Peter backing up his savings and calling his wife because the reveal of his identity has out him not only publicly and morally, but also financially at risk. NWH adapted this to a younger generation in regard to college, but nothing hit harder than seeing that panel of Peter on the plane - documents in hand attempting to come to grips with everything.
@@goldenaries0860 Haha no problem at all! I appreciated you taking the time to even watch my video, let alone write a thoughtful comment on it!
And I absolutely agree with your take on Spiderman! I think Sam Raimi's Spiderman did such a good job of developing the limits of responsibility. Tobey Maguire's Spiderman has to accept that he isn't all powerful, but he also isn't powerless. He has do what good he can but only that which is within his means, otherwise he'll fall apart like he did in spiderman 2!
Also I gotta read some of those comics you're talking about, they sound like they do such good job fleshing out his character and themes!
Thank you for this, his take on Tony, Steve, and Thor bothered me so much. I happy someone outside of myself expressed this
@@kingrm6656 I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts on these characters! This video essay is just about my perspective but it’s definitely not my “end-all/be-all” take on them
I disagree strongly with the invincible statement, because while invincible is very violent, I don’t think it ever gets super cynical because the heroes still want to save people and be good. It’s just you know, consequences are something real in this universe, but I do not think that invincible is cynical, no I think is a celebration of superheroes ( I am talking about the full story of the comic of course
That’s fair, my opinion has for sure changed on the show since making this video 🤙
Pretty much this exactly about Invincible.
Without spoiling ahead from the comic, Mark makes a LOT of mistakes, but the end results are hopeful because he LEARNS from those mistakes, and becomes a better hero.
Marvel movies in particular seem to have become more comedic action than anything else. Just compare the first Iron man film to something like Thor Love and Thunder and its a night and day difference
The first iron man movie feels like it was apart of its own universe! So grounded and serious while being funny without downplaying the conflicts or removing tension! Almost like marvel’s Dark Knight
False.
I think you didn't watch the show closely enough if you think it can be boiled down to "superheroes but bad." It may be true of the comics, but the Boys has so much more to say than that. Hell, they make it very clear by the end of the comics that the real villain is Butcher.
Why would you make this video if Hadn't even finished the boys or invincible yet??
As a kid growing up in Nigeria in the 2000s, Superman was the first hero I was introduced to and he is also the most recognized superhero in my country. My dad bought me the Reeve movies and the Fleischer cartoons on VHS and I also discovered the Bruce Timm animated series (SUperman and Justice League). I love his heroism, his uplifting worldview, kindness, humility and his good morals. That made me an instant superman fan and I remain on to this day. When I emigrated to north America and got into comic books, I was surprised at how different he was than I remembered ad then the awful Zack SNyder movies came out and I just checked out. Turning him into a cynic and glorifed weapon of destruction is such an insult. These days I don't read American comics but I still watch the DVD of the Bruce Timm cartoons.
I loved STAS.
Clark was witty, funny and still channeled that farm boy energy, and superman was practically perfected and embodied the character so well and what he represents.
But I don't get why people hate MOS?
Agreed. Superman isn't really what he used to be anymore because the people writing lost the point of his character
@@compatriot852 No they had to update his character because he was declining in popularity with younger generation. Superman was a product of his time with the older generation who were concerned about facism, communism, WW1&2, Cold War. So the good guys vs bad guys line was more defined in that context.
@@sahulianhooligan7046 they didnt update him they did a 180, there is nothing wrong with taking a different approach to a character but they all have defined characteristics and ideas: spider-man is awkward and has money problems, batman is broody and superman is uplifting. when the "different take betrays a characters defining features it stops being that character, which is why snyder's superman isnt superman
@@sahulianhooligan7046 but that wasn’t what those wars were they weren’t just bad Vs good they were multiple groups all vying for control over massive areas of land
Don’t really agree with most of these since a lot of these heroes are meant to be more human and flawed and eventually learn to become heroic as well as the responsibilities that come with it, but there are times where they’re still bland, either because the story makes them a blank slate action hero or makes them flawed, but doesn’t develop them. The boys was more of “what if superheroes were just products that think “super” makes up for lack of hero” and
Invincible is actually more of a traditional superhero story but it’s just that it pulls off the “dad is the twist villian” really well.
This is Reductive....
The Boys is meant to be about how giving humans unchecked power isn't good...
Thank you!! Finally, someone who has a brain and common sense. It’s like these people who make cringy "deep analysis" videos completely miss the whole point of the show. It’s not that superheroes = bad, it is much more than that. Like what you said, it is about how giving superpowers to random normal people can easily corrupt them over time and use them for their benefit. But no, this man purposely dismissed all of the boy’s themes for the sake of cash and revenue. I mean, he even admitted himself. The dude watched the Boys for the first time in its entirety and saw a gore scene, after which he deemed the show "edgy" because it hit him with the reality of the sad truth about our world: no matter how good you are, humans don’t deserve superpowers. You could be the purest human being with superpowers, but if left unchecked, it could easily corrupt you. Look at all the celebrities and corporations in real life; they're praised and viewed as gods or divine beings just like the boys when it comes to superheroes, but in reality, every one of them has a controversy, a dark side, a very bad past that affected people in some way or did something bad privately that the public doesn't know about, so they try to cover it up so it doesn't ruin their reputation. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the many problems I have with this guy's video. Don’t even get me started on his response to the people who clearly debunked or called him out on one of his points down in the comment sections, whether it be from projecting or gaslighting the person with his pretentious smug attitude as if he’s some kind of infallible god. But hey, what the hell do I know? I am just a random dude ranting about another guy’s horrible take. I just wanted to get this off my chest because the video is genuinely infuriating to watch.
Superhero movies used to people blessed with powers that could be used for good or evil but chose the hero path. They're here to inspire people to be better no matter what. Superhero movies now are power fantasy filled with memes so people can relate to them.
"Superhero movies now are power fantasy filled with memes so people can relate to them"
What?
Respectfully, your points on iron man, Cap, Thor, and Yondus sacrifice are completely missing the point of those characters arcs.
Is it possible to false flag a video
It sometimes feels like modern media and sometimes fans are so focused on subverting expectations of super heroes, that they forgot what made superheores so beloved in the first place.
How so?
if i had to say one thing it would be : Super heroes are no longer relatable. They aren't going through issues that I'm going through. And when they do, they go through such a turned up version of it... that I cant relate anymore.
Not all superheroes have to be relatable thought. They just have to be good written and enjoyable characters, being relatable doesn't make someone a good character
That is a very simple take...I can't relate to Tony stark cause he's a billionaire...we relate to him because he's likeable
@@siddharthakvr5154 We relate to him since all 7 now 8 billion people have at one time or another being an arrogant asshat who need to discipline
Bullshit.
The part where Strange forces a person to punch himself multiple times with a magic trick in Doctor Strange 2 is so incredibly fucked up and i'm still shocked that nobody is talking about that part, starting to think that the majority of MCU writers are freaking sociopaths.
And Strange did it because Pizza Papa got mad that they stole from him😭
Dr Strange is a dickhead in case you havent realized this yet. Becoming a sorcerer didnt really change who he was, and Dr Strange 2 made no real attempt to change the character.
It's just a little Sam Raimi running gag
Evil Dead callback
Its a joke ffs lmfao
In my opinion, I really like the movie Superman: Man Of Tomorrow because Clark basically beats the antagonist of that film not through his fist, but through his words, his heart. I know a lot of people don't really like this movie, but to me it felt *very* much like a "Superman" story, if that makes sense.
This guy really said Andrew Garfield Spiderman is a good superhero 😂😂😂
He was in TASM 1. Then in TASM 2 he let Rhino run people over because he wanted to joke with him.
This was a fantastic video, though I have to disagree on Invincible. A lot of people compare it to The Boys because it's gorey and shows just how fucked up it would be if Superman punched a normal person, but that's really only surface level. While The Boys is a critique of Superhero culture and how they're portrayed today, I believe that Invincible is actually more of a love letter to Superheroes. A lot of people tend to focus on the Omni-Man story arc, but at the shows core, it's about a teenage boy blessed with powers and trying his best to become the symbol of hope he always aspired to be. Initially wanting to be like his father, but coming into his own as a hero only he can be.
Hell, in one of the episodes, he refused to help Titan take down Machine Head because he thought he was only good enough for large-scale events like extra-dimensional gods or gigantic natural disasters, but learns that through Titan's family and his own mother's advice that no injustice, however large or small, should be ignored. It's actually a shame that people don't talk about Mark's story enough.
That's an awesome point and I definitely agree with you! My thoughts on Invincible have changed a lot since this video was made.
@@MisterSweetProductions I recommend you read the comics while season 2 is still being made. Now that Nolan (Omni-Man) is off-world, it focuses far more on Invincible fighting villains, including an arch-nemesis of his
yeah.
It places invincible in a gorey world to test his limits, and he ultimately comes out better for it.
That's why he's called invincible. Cause no matter how many times he gets beaten down, he always gets back up and stands by his ideals, and makes his world a better place.
Great point about Mark! I think the Boys should be critiqued to be fair, a critique on gray nihilism. Black and white may be "boring' to some but last I checked superheroes is an escape and no one said they had to match our world. Why would anyone want to see a piece of media like our world when they are trying to escape it and complain how shitty it is.
@@MisterSweetProductions Sorry but I cannot feel sorry for fanboys when they have horrible attitudes like Snyderfans.
Superman is honestly a great character, you know exactly what he'll do every time, yet you just want to see it.
I think your view on caps arc is a bit flawed though. It's not like he signed a contract to be a superhero and then *just* dipped. He served in the war, even sacrificed himself for the sake of his loved ones, woke up out of time and still chose to be a superhero when the time needed him, watched his lover who's aged without him die, broke a precious friendship to redeem his scarred friend who didn't really get a chance to live his life, struggled with failing to save lives only to in turn contribute to give those same lives a second chance. I don't think "go back in time to get married" is a bad moral, I think you're just taking his arc a bit out of context, he honestly deserves that retirement, that peace. If his story has anything to say about itself it would be "to know when to serve", I think spending time for yourself is a good moral especially after all that and it's not like he'd be selfish about it, he's a healthy guy by now
Hw could still eb cap in the past ( hints hint marvel show about cap in the 1950s abd 060s)
@@cbandit7715 sorry I think you may need to edit that, I don't quite follow
I absolutely refuse to believe that Cap would do that though, pretty much his entire arc was about saving Bucky and after that happens he kind of just leaves him to go he with a woman whom he watched die
@@loganr6203 his entire arc is not pretty much to save bucky. he didn't even know he was alive until civil war and he did save bucky and that wasn't just any woman, that was the woman of his life
I actually like the Boys. I don't mind the hardcore, gratuitous, almost-nihilistic vibe to it. I say 'almost' because I do have a limit.
I have mixed feelings about Invincible. I read the comics and it's........very heavy. It's a superhero story written by the same guy who wrote the Walking Dead comics. Make of that what you will. But I will say that the ending of the first episode was the closest I've ever come to watching the Justice League being murdered before my very eyes and....I won't say that it broke something inside of me but it was a feeling that came very close to it. And I've watched Flashpoint Paradox
I like dark superhero stories. But I also like watching heroes being actual heroes. I honestly don't see why we can't have both. But, jesus christ, it'd be nice if the non-dark superhero stories were actually written well and weren't goddamm cookie cutters. To this day, Young Justice and the Justice League animated tv series still remain my favourite superhero stories. It's just good writing
I find I love the Marvel movies that exist in isolation the most, when they’re self contained movies that feature a comic character rather than a piece of Marvel Cinematic Universe(TM)
New young justice is a hot mess.
Invincible has real heroes though, you should know that as a comic reader. It feels like a much more "real" story than something like the Avengers imo.
Wouldn’t say it’s nihilistic it’s more like a pure embodiment of narcissism. They value others lives so little due to their god complexes that they just don’t care.
@@joshuameadows4922 it doesn't tho it has all the same things look in the comics invincible is a lower scale marvel story it's planetary the first season just covered the first 20 some issues outta like 250? I forget the exact amount
I mean the boys is less a superhero story and more a vessel with which the writers deconstruct actual society and modern pop culture. It’s less “what if superman bad” and much more “what if superman was a corporate owned celebrity?” Unless it’s the comics, since Garth Ennis fucking despises super heroes with a burning passion, just absolutely fucking livid over there existence within comic books.
Edit: also as a person who has read the invincible comics, it’s literally a story about unending will overcoming all adversary even in the face of great pain. Minor spoilers, but there’s a moment when mark defeats a vastly stronger foe through his sheer fucking will and determination, as well as caring for his loved ones. If that’s a cynical and depressing story and comparable to the boys then I don’t know what the fuck you want.
As someone who has also read the invincible comics, it’s really weird seeing people describe the show as it’s a show where superman is evil because that’s honestly such as small part of the comics story that I barely think of that because otherwise, the characters generally are genuinely heroic and the messed up parts mostly come from characters that are either villains, viltrumite fighting, or more morally ambiguous characters (*cough* Oliver *cough*)
Ennis doesn't hate superheroes?
Series better than dem comics, mah N.
@@shiori00 No...no he REALLY REALLY does
@@ZeroKitsune he doesn't.
I think this is why the Watchmen movie didn't quite stay in people's minds as long as now. Then once we did have a watchmen sequel, it was forgotten when people were watching the Boys.
Watchmen for the superhero comics industry was mostly decades of pent up feelings of cookie-cutter superheroes being unleashed. But the movie came so early that it missed the point.
The Boys (and Invincible) fill that niche in exactly the right time. And it shows that the movies are repeating what comics went through.
If history is to repeat themselves, then that can only mean we are about to enter the 90's of super hero movies.Where to avoid looking unoriginal, they will throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.
On the plus side, the ending to Spidey NWH has me excited for super hero movies again. Just to see an 18 year old kid from new york stick up for the little guy. We had our large-scale massive movies. Its time we downscale and remember who the heroes need to save.
Watchmen TV series is definitely worth the watch then
Super-Hero movies will die and become niche again, eventualy it's gonna happen.
@@irmaosmatos4026
Hope so 🤷
@@FINNSTIGAT0R
I don't.
@@irmaosmatos4026
As if.
The last segment gave me chills (the good kind) this was a well put essay and I hope new modern heros can adapt that is isn't just saving the world. It's about being there for someone.
Thank you! I hope the same!
Attack on Titan is a very good example of a show with good action, good story and really makes you question who is right and who is bad
My favourite work of fiction even above breaking bad, it's so refreshing that it's so unbiased about its issues, it makes me feel free while watching it
@@LordComradeAnarchoCapitalus Free just like eren? Haha
Like it's a show where I can't find a villain or a hero
Other than King fritz, he burn in hell
too bad isayama cant nail the landing
Spider-man 2 was the perfect superhero movie. All the other spider-man movies and material lives in its shadow. And, to a broader extent, all the other MCU movies do too.
I loved this video so much, it did put words in my mouth to describe this feeling I've been having with superheroes lately, where I started to get bored of watching supersoldiers fighting, losing a lot of the human take of the stories
my guy just described bruce wayne’s arc in the batman to a T
This is one of the most sincere apologetics for heroism and goodness I have seen in a long time. Didn’t you get the memo that you are supposed to be detached and ironic and casually nihilistic? :-)
Almost like “heroism” and “goodness” don’t have to be explored in such dull ways
@@njm2699 I think what would be interesting is a hero that was not always good and did horrible things but at the end they change based on their world view and tons of other different factors turning them into a true hero.
@@gamercreature2587 that's kinda what i liked about the early deadpool comics quite honestly. His whole journey was exactly that...Now he's just funny meme guy unfortunately.
Love this, and really appreciate your thoughtful take! You expressed a lot of my own thoughts that I've never put words to. Hero stories at their best, demonstrate sacrificial love for others-not just action scenes between unredeemable 'bad guys' and incorruptible 'good guys'.
How to not make an argument:
Wanna elaborate?
Wow! So true! There's no argument in this comment! You didn't make one!
The day someone makes a goood, optimistic, hopefully sunny movie about Superman with a lot of passion and heart instead of the edgy hardcore deconstruction, that day my friends, the superhero landscape will change.
They already did that, it's an animated movie called superman man of tomarrow. Its pretty fun.
I don't know what to tell you but not everything has to be perfect go lucky, this is why I like the Snyder version you may have been flawed but he had tons of Hope for the future.
Like overly sarcastic productions said, it would be cool to see a grim dark world that hates him and wants him gone, and instead of breaking under the pressure he keeps being himself and tries to make the world a better place.
Nah it would be lame
@@silva3658 somewhat true from a certain point view.
makes perfect sense how else the ones created these can attract attention if they dont match societies stereotypical ways of living and viewing the world justice itself is very relative so it all comes down to in what way one views the word justice itself
Very true! I think society’s nihilistic/pessimistic outlook is influenced by art and also itself influences art. It’s all very cyclical but there, in my opinion, doesn’t seem to be any optimism in the mix.
I think that has had a pretty negative influence on people in general and could be remedied with a revitalization of classic hero’s vs what we have today which reinforce a vision of distrust and hopelessness
The amount of times u contradicted yourself in this video is insane
people got sick of superheroes once the franchise started getting milked, especially by MCU with 5 movies coming out each year... people like the Boys because it's more in grasp with reality... people like actual stories they can relate to
That says a lot when you can relate more to Homlander the Peter Parker.
@@donellebullock7404 i don't think that was his point at all.
@@donellebullock7404 my point is relating to the whole situation that there is no good and evil in the world, there are money crazed people, broken people, people that go over moral values for a purpose, and it all comes down to the environment they live in
I don't know I found the boys to be really overrated. The only thing I liked in the show was soldier boy. Except that I seriously don't know why most people are so crazy about this show.
@@fidan2fast also, The Boys did good job in interpreting nature vs nurture.
Thank god we cant see dislikes anymore
I’ve never wish for the dislike feature to be back more than now
@@jauzaafaishalahmadpadmadis3846 agreed, being a Boys fan here..
Western mindset make me confuse.
That Andrew Garfield scene where he got to save MJ killed me. He lost his girl the exact same way but he got a chance to save her again.
Damn.
Solid essay, man.
Shazam i think is another good example of "good, trad superhero values"
This perfectly articulates the reason I stopped liking the newer superhero movies!! I grew up with the wholesome, lesson teaching heroes and now it seems that what I see today is just purely based on action/fighting scenes with overpowered characters and a HEAVY dose of CGI.
If you’re so delusional that you think superhero’s have to be perfect, cookie cutter boring characters then idk what to tell you. It makes for worse movies.
What you’re looking for is Saturday morning cartoons made for 10 year olds.
@@BaronVonBielski I don't think it makes me delusional to have an opinion different from your own.
@@BaronVonBielski and I like cartoons. So what?
@@BaronVonBielski If you're so delusional you think wholesome, lesson teaching heroes are perfect, cookie cutter boring characters then idk what to tell you. It makes for a worse you
The issues you have aren't with the superhero genre per se, but rather with the culture that is producing them.
"A story about someone putting others before themselves" In a self centered culture this is not seen as a virtue. People want stories of personal empowerment, not charity and self-denial. People want affirmation of whatever it is they feel and desire, not a story that may imply something other than the self could be more important.
"making the good guys bad" The audience hates the idea of a "good guy" as this poses a challenge, what if you don't have the characteristics of said "good guy"? Do you change or try to improve? No, as this is a cardinal sin to the ego. So instead you resentfully look for (create) every little flaw in the hero and twist them into villains. Now you can rest easy and say there are no "good guys" so I don't fall short, I'm fine just the way I am. People want the bar lowered, not raised.
exactly. thank you for writing this.
This is so true, somehow I always knew this, but never actually thought about it until you put it in words. What a great analysis! Not saying this as a criticism, but in a neutral way, this is a reflection of society. Striving towards perfection vs I am good the way I am. I’m gonna save this.
Nah?
I love superheros, I know some may say they're childish but stories like Daredevil, Batman, and Spider-man are perfect examples of what Superheros should be.
Iron Man: sacrifices himself to save the universe knowing there was no other way
This youtuber: yeah so we dont have any heroic stories any more.
Every heroic character now aday: *dies
This TH-cam: so what I’m just supposed to kill myself to be heroic?
@@MisterSweetProductions I think he means if you are brave enough to deny your self another day in the light for anyone else your a hero which what Tony do
@@MisterSweetProductions sacrificing yourself for other peoples safety is pretty heroic yeah
@@dieselmule2006 I could write a one sentence story about a hero dying. That doesn’t make it a good story. I could write a 1,000 page fluff piece wherein a hero dies. That doesn’t make it a good story.
If the sacrifice isn’t built upon a well written story where the stakes of the sacrifice are meaningful, the sacrifice doesn’t matter. You could write a story about a man that gives up ice cream to a child who dropped their’s and make it have greater emotional weight than Tony’s death. This is all an opinion but that’s where mine is coming from.
@@MisterSweetProductions bro there were SIX movies exploring Iron man and in three he was obsessed with stopping the worst outcome from ocurring, his death is literally the same motive but in a grander scale
i dont know HOW much more build up you need, you want 18 movies and 16 shows or something?
This video is like someone who reviewed books by reading summaries instead of reading the actual books
Whatever case Story of Superman in Superman and Lois is best I could imagine for the symbol. That submarine scene in China and Bridge falling during his time with family. He just nailed that moment. Tyler is perfect Superman in opinion as Clark Kent, as Superman and Karl El.
It’s kinda wild how I’ve never heard of this channel, but one watch and I’m instantly subbed. Idk why he’s not more popular with such well made videos
Wow thank you!! I’m so glad you like my videos!
I had this conversation with my friends once about how western "entertainment" seems to be all about getting more depressed watching a show that talks about the worst aspects of life, like drugs, abuse, greed and etc, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of positives in making a show that can make actual good commentary on any problem, but nowadays people don't seem to want to have fun anymore, when a nice and silly movie, videogame or show comes out there will be a lot of people belittling it just because it's not a dark corrupted take on something, people disregard anime often because it's silly sometimes (and because it's animation) but they fail to realize that 1: just because something is silly sometimes it doesn't mean it's not deep or that it isn't a good story, and 2: not everything needs to be a deep commentary on society, not everything needs to be depressing, it's "entertainment", why people are so eager to get depressed these days is beyond my comprehension
Who, in their right mind, would be depressed by gore and violence and mutilated corpses birthing alien fetuses that then gets eaten by monsters??! 😄
Sad reality of our culture. And when you disagree with their opinions which I’m sure garner a lot of likes on social media you’re deemed a bad person. I say continue being yourself and different I still watch cartoons and innocent little shows. Having all that garbage in your mental at the end of the days does nothing to benefit you or your existence.
I agree fully and this is coming from someone who has battle depression and heavy trauma for over 20 years. My tolerance for depressing content has diminished. I know everyone is different and I had a period where I wanted everything as dark and grim because I thought it was more realistic and could relate to it. I do still enjoy some dark shows though like Arcane and Squid Game.
That's a really nice way to put it.
What are you talking about? Most of western movies are lighthearted. Look at the mcu they’re so fucking afraid to touch anything that is dark.
I think that Invincible walks a good line between silliness and seriousness, the violence isn't just for the sake of the violence. The Boys is a different story...
I absolutely agree! Invincible is actually so well written in my opinion and stays pretty tonally consistent!
If you're referring to The Boys' comics I can't speak to that. From what I've heard it does just seem a lot more gritty and violent just because. In terms of the show I think "violence for the sake of violence" doesn't really do the show justice at all.
While it's obvious that the violence is still amplified for fun, it's still _very_ purposeful, establishing character and theme. It draws attention to exactly how messed up the world is when power gets into the wrong hands, or just criticizes the idea of superpowers in general. The Supes' violence tends to be a result of lacking control, seeing regular people as inferiors, or emotional outbursts due to ability to ignore consequences. Some of it is a result of Compound V abuse, a clear metaphor for drug abuse.
Alternatively, the regular characters also commit acts of violence, but for a different purpose. In this context it showcases the gritty path of vengeance and brings into question the morals of the resisting party. Aside from Butcher, who's portrayed as being Homelander's counterpart, the rest of the characters want out on the violence. It's just what they have to go through in order to reach their goals, and is essentially a question of whether the ends justify the means or whether the blood on their hands is worth throwing away their lives for.
Essentially it functions as an obstacle and a narrative device, making characters question their actions and emphasizing the show's theme, that "nobody should have this kind of power."
The comics of the boys really is just “here’s a superhero similar to another comic character, they’re a pervert/ murderer. Now watch a British guy smash his face in”
The Boys comic is Garth Ennis’ giant edgy middle finger to the superhero genre where as the show is a commentary or satire on modern politics and corporations and how it effects everyday people
Well, the source material has a lot of silliness to it. But Garth Ennis style humor would not play out well on TV, so they nixed stuff like...
i can't even say it here, it's pretty bad stuff. 😆
I guess the joust isn't so bad. Frenchie doing a joust in a bike with a French baguette. But that's also pretty racist, so not fit for TV either.
Hes mad that Aquaman killed a pirate who was murdering the crew of a submarine? 🤨
He uses Joss Whedon's version of Snyder film while calling it Snyders Justice League? 😖
The Boys isn't as popular the media makes it looks.
He criticizes the Marvel films for being exactly what he wants them to be...😑
This is fluffy postmodern morality. Its sentimental with misplaced empathy
He's mad that Aquaman killed someone in cold-blood, I don't see the problem. "Misplaced empathy"? Bitch please.
To be honest I love Invincible, and I love the Boys but I know what you mean.
There should be heroes who fightfor good who have meaning in the World.
And I think there is one Superhero movie who proves what makes Superheroes so great.
Sam Raimis Spider-Man 2
Yeah I totally agree! I didn’t ever mean for this video to come off saying those shows are bad, just that as “heroes” there are fewer characters written to be looked up to as there once were! But invincible is even a pretty decent guy!
@@MisterSweetProductions I never ment to say that you don't like the Shows.
What I ment was that you have to have "bad" Superheroes to relise that you need good superheroes.
Clickbaity thumbnail
No you just came here expecting to see something else. I did too, then i realised, "oh so that's what it was about and not this"
Ok u were talking about thumbnail, ok sorry my bad,
I think the problem is most of the writers write themselves as the heroes and people they don’t like as the villains and are trying to live out a Revenge Fantasy like how the modern Strong female superheroes have unrealistically misogynistic male villains
Wow I really enjoyed this video. Dude , you get superheroes and mythology. As a writer, I’m working with an artist who loves modern portrayal of heroes in DC movies. He doesn’t understand why have my heroes going through the human experience and different emotions. He thinks heroes are just characters he draws on a page that should frown and punch people.
incredible video, really changed my perspective in a way i didn't realise i already agreed with
I think we have lost the way we look at superheroes, a lot of the time people always care about the flaws, relatability and conflict they have. But the original reason as to why we always liked superheroes is because of their inspirational nature.
To be the better person, and always remaining hopeful is what keeps us alive and well today. It’s not lame to be a goody two shoes or to remain optimistic, it’s genuine.
I truly hope Superman legacy redefines the term to what it once was.
*BE A HERO TO THOSE AROUND YOU EVERY DAY.*
-I've been a "super hero"... answer enough 911 calls, spend enough nights in a marriage where you want to be there, but can't, because you might literally fucking die, on any given shift at work, and fight or die on a daily basis in the handful of jobs that bring such risk, and you change.
And that is where things really get back to, isn't it? - A whole bunch of people who couldn't be heroes, because they are cowards, made movies about heroes, but are not heroes themselves. - They caused harm to innocents, in the name of political messages, nobody wanted to hear.
Being a "Super Hero" sounds nice, but you don't need to be that special - you can be a plain old, vulnerable human body... and do great and good things, that *DEMONSTRATE HEROISM* - instead of ridiculing it. Taking your disabled neighbor's groceries up the stairs, when it hurts them to lift even a tomato soup can, matters to that person... do that.
Real World Superheroes are around you, every day.
Oh my god, superheroes are real!
Not a very fair review 😐😐😐
Honestly I love most of the live action stuff....But the really good stuff has come from animation
I love how the batman addressed this by having batman realize at the end that there's more to being a hero than beating the shit out of people.
Plus throughout the Nolan Batman trilogy, multiple people tell him he can do more as the "Billionaire" Bruce Wayne than batman and Bruce finally gets it as you mentioned
It's interesting to compare superheroes to old myths. I think about how some gods were more like flawed super powered individuals.
But it's a shame that we are both - somehow simultaneously - gentrifying and corrupting our superheroes; which function as modern day mythical deities.
Agreed! I think satire is necessary to tear down poorly established notions, but eventually, something new needs to be established.
It feels like everyone is so afraid to claim anything as good or hopeful because we assume everything has some hidden, underlying evil! It’s a very hopeless outlook/worldview
@@MisterSweetProductions good take!
Speaking of underlying evil - did you see my video about your videos? It was fun to make 💚
@@ArtamisBot oh my goodness!! I didn’t get a notification! I’ll watch it as soon as I can!!
@@MisterSweetProductions underlying evil - ha dubet 💚
This was surprisingly deep and made me emotional and idk why but great content
Thank you!
The Boys is not about realistic superheroes generally, it’s a satire of corporate culture. Huge misread here
Just because you can't pick up a hammer like Thor doesn't mean you can't learn anything from him. The first 1st Thor movie teaches of humility where Thor was banished to earth and literally had to climb from the mud to get his powers back. You may not relate to losing a loved one in space but you can relate or at least some people can to finding a family, people that accept you like the Guardians movie.
There's more to some movies than just punching and spectacle if you look under the surface.
Yeah let's go back to the days where the tragedy behind superheroes is their own mental state and pain instead of just "haha I curse and I'm an asshole" being the "statement"
If you’re referring to homelander you clearly have no idea about (the deep)er dimensions of his character. Sound like a virgin ngl
0:01 - the 2nd two characters in the thumbnail aren't heroes in the narrative - they're villains disguised as heroes. Invincible has at least 3 straight-up heroes, plus the original Guardian team as far as we're told.
0:02 Brie is punching a bad guy because her powers let her see past superficial appearances.
While Superman is waiting for that one woman there's, on average, one or two murders or serious assaults in a city that size,
I think for a representation of this argument we can look to the conflict between superman and Lex Luthor. Lex is a cynic who believes wholeheartedly that there is some part of superman that is evil. Lex cannot comprehend that with the massive power Superman holds that he isn’t corrupted by it or abuses it for his own gain. He can’t comprehend that superman wouldn’t use his powers to steal a better life just for himself - that superman wouldn’t evolve to have a god-like ego. Lex can’t comprehend the idea of a superhero and so can never truly become one himself. Even when he dons a super suit with the s logo stapled onto it.
For a great closer, look no further to all-Star superman. The story in which Superman is dying due to.. sun cancer and attempts to write every wrong that he knows before his death, one of these wrongs being Lex’s outlook. At some point during the story Lex is given a taste as to what it’s like to be superman and the moment he gets it, he’s addicted to the point where he begs superman to give him another taste (“please, please, with that power I could change the world! I could cure cancer”) but superman doesn’t give in, instead using it to send one last message to superman - power doesn’t make a Superhero (“you could’ve always cured cancer Lex, you just never tried”). And Lex listens (“You’re right”). He listens and realises the battle he’s been fighting was for naught - he realises the concept of a superhero and understands what it truly means to be one.
It's really eerie at how many people in here are getting emotional at this video sound exactly like your description of Lex Luthor and even scarier is that they don't even see it
This is beautiful
Really interesting video. Although there are a few things that I think could be expanded upon. First, the mythology comparison is kind of weird in my opinion, because mythological characters were usually anything but heroic. They were extremely human, extremely flawed and most of the time, more cruel and selfish than they had any right to be. If anything, modern heroes are trying to come as close as possible to the mythological heroes, showing people with incredible power but with all the possible negatives that come with being human. Most of them fail, I agree.
But there's also a lot of context to superheroes and how they evolved. Superheroes evolved alongside the society they represented, as people started to notice the cracks in the system, the heroes that were protecting that system started to fumble as well. Works like Watchmen showed how broken superheroes could be and how the power they wielded could be used for better or worse. The boys is just that idea taken to the absolute extreme. And while it's true that superheroes have gotten darker, I think they're actually the most interesting and diverse they've ever been. While stuff like The Boys shows the possible darkness behind the concept of a super-powered individual, any form of the Spiderman movies keeps hitting the right notes when it comes to representing the person of Peter Parker and his struggle as a high-school kid trying to super his way through life.
That is why I think the Spiderman movies and Tony Stark are some of the most beloved MCU characters. Spiderman usually fights some smaller, more contained threat that is in turn very important to Peter and to who he is and where he stands in life. On the other hand, Tony Stark resonates with people because we see him transform from an asshole with superpowers to an actual hero, struggling with himself and his past experiences and still willing to go on.
Other MCU characters don't reach that high of classic heroism sadly.
Then there's Invincible, that mixes the dark world of cynical modern superheroes with a protagonist always trying (and failing often) to do the right thing.
Honestly I think the worst form of superhero media currently is the Marvel and DC comics, caught in a panic and desperately trying to speak to a new audience with whom they have no connection to, with writers that try to push themselves above the classics without understanding what made them classic in the first place and a misguided idea that just inserting representation without putting in the work to make good characters or adhere to the logic of established ones can make a good story. All because they're scared of the ever-rising popularity of manga. Funnily enough, manga has probably the best "baby's first superhero story" on the market in the form of MHA. A fun story, not complex, but filled with the idealism and struggle that help build heroes in people's minds.
Then again, Marvel did just win the whole game by releasing the greatest story ever conceived, reaching an apex that will and cannot ever be surpassed #Morbiussweep
Honestly excellent points throughout! Thanks for taking the time to write this I very much agree!
Also just finished my tattoo of morbius from my back to my bellybutton! #morbiusfever
I think the comics are better than you think, though. The original Miss Marvel comic run does the whole "Self-contained, small threats with focus on character development" VERY well.
I agree I'd like to see more light hearted super hero shows like in the old days, but I disagree that we need to lose the dark and gritty shows all together. The Boys is possibly one of the greatest shows of our generation and I think shows like invincible while having more of a light hearted message, is still dark and I think they work extremely well. Its refreshing to see superheros who arent just these empty shells who are just heroic and selfless, the perfect people.
give me an example of some of these superheroes that are "heroic and selfless, the perfect people"
@@train123z Damn this was a year ago I dont even remember what the video was about, but I can give you some depending on what you mean. Do you mean the heroes in the video or?
@@wruxiz6104 Characters that people think of first when you say "superhero"
*I never thought about it like this. What an interesting perspective on the matter.*
I must admit, I was clickbaited. I saw the boys and thought "There is no way this man thinks any of the "heroes" in the boys are heroes. However, I really wanted to know your thoughts, so I clicked.
I really enjoyed this video. I loved how you were respectful in your take and felt like you were stating your point in a conversation. I agreed with some of your takes, like with superman, batman, and spiderman and what they stand for. However, for the boys, I don't feel they just turned the good guys bad and the bad guys good. I believe there is more nuisance to it than that. I don't believe there are supposed to be many heroes in the boys.
I could be reading way too much into this or interpreting this wrong and I apologize for that.
This was a great video and I look forward to witnessing your opinions on things in the future.
seriously, “good guys bad, bad guys good” is so off the mark about the boys
@@quanicle101 Yeah, Billy was almost as messed up by Homelander in the first 2 seasons, he only got better due to Hughie healing his trauma
This video has a very “back in the day” vibe. By that I mean it takes a very nostalgic rose colored look at the superheroes of the past while not taking into account that these “dark gritty” stories have been a part of the superhero canon for years. Deconstructionist super stories like The Boys aren’t new. Even if we were to go all the way back to Greek mythology like you did in this video, it is full of selfish petty characters who were supposed to see as heroic or godlike (Hercules story starts with him killing his wife and kids, not through his own moral failing but because Hera basically possessed him.) Myths can teach us how to nobly and “heroicly” get through adversity, but they also have historically been a vehicle for exploring the scariest parts of our humanity. If you don’t like new superhero movies cause they’re badly written and too dark for your tastes, that’s perfectly fair, but I think it’s highly reductive to say superheroes are getting worse (one of the example you used for how dark super movies are getting was Chris Nolan’s Dark Knight. The comic it was based on, “The Killing Joke”, was printed and released in 1988).
this, comic have been pretty edgy since at least the 80's. it's just that the movies about comics in the 80's were light hearted and more people are familiar with that.
It's because everything has to be a deconstruction or subversion. Hollywood thinks (maybe rightfully so) that modern audiences are bored of the always virtuous hero. Look at other genres not just super heroes. Most action movies have this problem too
The issue with subversion and deconstruction, is that you can't deconstruct or subvert something that is already a deconstruction or a subversion. It just doesn't work.
People seem to forget that superman is a subversion of the idea might makes right.
He was literally created in response to the idea of the nazi German übermench aka superman.
People are bored with Hollywood! 😃
Cap literally helped save the world and the Universe a bunch of times, he then quietly retired with his girl. He earned it.
nowadays super heroes aren't about telling a story about a hero
it's about exploiting the modern fear of living a worthless, boring life, completely forgotten within a few years of your death
Loved this video. You perfectly put into video how I have been feeling the past 10 years with these "heroes" in entertainment now. I still read my classics and watch the older cartoons with my family. Thank you & keep up the great work.
Entertainment now?
Well dang, didn't have to go getting me all emotional this morning! I love the points you made and I really agree with most of them. I do think some of the Marvel movies have gotten better. Take Ant Man for example. It's basically just a heist movie, but with super heroes. A good super hero movie should just be another genre type movie, but with a hero in it. That's my two cents. Either way, thanks for the content :)
id have to say black panther is a great movie as well , ryan coogler is a great visionary like christopher nolan, and tom watts
As a fan of the genre since seeing Batman 89 in theatres as a kid there’s always been good and bad superhero movies, and mostly really bad, and in general most movies are bad, but every now and then there’s one that truly hits on all levels, like no way home, and it leaves you wading thru the crap to find the next good one
This is why I think invincible has so much potential because it is fully aware of the dark nature of our world and all the twisted shit that happens in it, yet it still remains hopeful and even when that hope dies for a time (talking about the comic) it will return later because its the only way to bring a better world
😂 you haven’t read the comics, it’s get so violent and dark
@@andycampbell8622 yeah but even after suffering so much invincible still remains a good person
I mean Captain America jumped on the fake grenade shows natural capacity for good showing he would save anyone regardless of if they respect him or not ( witch they didn’t at that point) showing us that we need to help everyone regardless of how we feel about them( all this achieved in 1 scene)
Depends on the individual. Sure, in modern context, many people would become frauds or go too far, but there are those who would try their best to help those in need of it
There are many criminals in this world, even amongst groups like the police or military, but there's also plenty of cops who do good work.
I like both the boys and invincible because of the unfiltered view of morality it potrays. Morality is a very complex issue and the journey towards it is not always clean but more often a dirty and very bloody road. I also like how protagonists constantly get messed up both emotionally and physically, not because of any sadistic pleasure linked to it but it also emphasizes the struggle of trying to preserve the values of being a good person in a corrupted world against people try to preserve their own interpretation of what a good person is. It even gets more interesting when some folks know what they're doing is wrong but do it anyway because it's socially acceptable and, it brings about the question of, is it worth doing the right thing if you're going to be hated for it especially if your goal is to be loved?
I totally agree with you! Thank you so much!
I struggle with modern heroes because I don’t feel them as that’s heroic.
Before, heroes had flaws, struggles but an indubitable sense of justice. They were kind, sensitive and strong. They were amazing role models. Now it’s so ambiguous.
Nowadays I feel that people think those heroes have set the bar too high so for them to be able to reach it, heroes have to lower their standards. So they have to be more “human”. Like come on! They are already human. They just are at the peak of humanity.
Even if I understand this statement, I think people have forgotten the most important point and it is that a story is made to teach a lesson. To give an ideal to follow, a model. The principle of an ideal is that it has to be difficult to reach. That’s why you have to make efforts every day to get close to it.
I feel many people are just too lazy nowadays. They want easily reachable ideals so they don’t have to make too many efforts so they wouldn’t get frustrated because of their laziness.
I have no problem with a hero having trauma but no matter his trauma, he has to overcome it to inspire others, that’s why he is a hero.
I know it’s difficult but inspiration to succeed in something comes by seeing someone else succeed at this.
If a show depicts a MC with trauma who ends up doing horrible stuff (for bad reasons I precise) then sorry but this guy is not a hero and I don’t want him to be a role model. His story is just a good-to-know story about how people can turn evil if they are traumatised at some extends but it’s not the story of a hero.
I’ve heard so many people talking about how this character is boring, how he is just a “good guy”, he has no flaws, how his behaviour is so cliché. It’s so annoying! I understand some people are looking for new experiences but at some point, they just want to be entertained not found inspiration to improve themselves.
That’s why heroes like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Kenshiro or Vash the Stampede would be always the best.
"Captain America goes back to live a married life" after saving billions, no trillions of lives from the combined damage that would've been caused by Loki, Ultron, Hydra, and undoing Thanos' snap
If he did anything in his timeline he would have made things worse. The Ancient One literally warns about creating dark timelines.
This is why the Batman is my favorite recent superhero movie because it starts off with Batman explaining what we expect of him that he is vengeance and almost like an antihero. By the end of the movie Batman learns that’s not what makes him a hero and that’s not the way to save Gotham vengeance isn’t heroic it just fuels the cycle. Batman learns that he needs to be a symbol of hope and he does this by focusing not on the criminals but by staying and helping the police save the people stuck in that stadium.
100%
I think you have some valid points here but your points on Iron Man are wrong his story is about a alcoholic arms dealer learning what it means to be selfless and do what’s right no matter the cost which did lead him to take things to far but he did what he had to do to solve that issue and realized the errors in his marvels super hero’s are still people and some of them are not that great but when it comes down to the wire they make right decisions
Thank you for this! This is a much better perspective on Iron Man than I had before!
Invincible is actually a pretty cool exception in a weird way. The violence is gratuitous and the villains legitimately evil but the heroes are actual heroes. Mark constantly gets beaten down and keeps getting back up to save people, even when it's his own father beating him down. Atom Eve seems to have at least temporarily stopped fighting villains but hasn't stopped using her powers to help people. The justice-league knock-offs Omni-Man killed were legitimately badasses and did everything they could to minimize civilian casualties while taking out villains. When their replacements fall short by putting the beating of the villain over protecting people they're chastised for it and show remorse, suggesting we can only expect them to improve on that. It does "realistic superheroes" without removing the "heroes" part of that.
They just want to impress. It's not about sending a good message to people anymore, it's about being attractive to the masses to get more money. They excuse themselves with "We just want to make something different" and yes, they're free to do so, but it's not impossible to give a good message at the end of the day, no matter the age rating of the movie/show
I think it’s possible that they are trying to make heroes more human to connect with the audience but idk if that’s the best option. Sometimes it’s good to create a relationship between the 2 but also a hero should be someone that can create a perfect example who doesn’t do anything putting people in harm.
That's the problem they're not making them more "human". Superheroes have the same problem "zombie" content has. It is ALWAYS humans that become the monsters. Then those "empowered" must fight themselves and not the real threats.
@@ExeErdna
The hell are you talking about?
@@dylansharp8471 Something you clearly don't understand
The Boys, Invincible, Watchmen are not a problem in my view... the problem is taking an established hopeful character like Superman and making him 'dark' because it is trending.
Watchmen changed how I seen superhero films
The movie or the comic??
I disagree with you putting invincible like that. Invincible has more gore than normal, yes. But at it's core it's still a very traditional superhero story. The ending of "You dad. I still have you dad." Didn't pull on your heart?
I'm starving for heroism in my medium. Thank you for actually pointing it out.
Most of what you said was just plain truth.
I'm tired of people with powers, I want heroes.