And if anybody’s wondering how Ultron was able to use the Gauntlet in different universes in “What If?”, they pretty much state that he is an anomaly and what made him so dangerous is that he really was from the only universe where the Gauntlet could work like that
They also said a soul for a soul not a life for a soul so even sadder but I believe Natasha’s soul is literally trapped in the soul world along with future Gamora’s.
Really dumb question, so please pardon me, but I forget how Gamora came back for GOTG 3. If I'm recalling correctly, she wasn't brought back but came from a different universe, but I forget how that went down.
@MeredithDomzalski Okay long story but when they went back in time they found Thanos found out through Nebula’s Hardrive the plan to retrieve the stones so he followed the avengers back to 2023 so keep in mind the Thanos that they fight in Endgame is from 2014 and so is Gamora and his entire army The Thanos from Infinity War(2018) was already killed by Thor. So in the fight present Nebula convinces Gamora to join their side. So that Gamora is really from the Past explaining why she has no memories of Quill or the team.
Interesting. My understanding from the movies was that her soul was destroyed in the process of gaining the soul stone. No soul to bring back, so she couldn't be brought back. No heaven. No hell. Nothing.
Also, basically the writers decided that Clint was more important because he had a family and Natasha didn't, according to them. Which is weird how they then try to establish that she did in the Black Widow movie.
Different writers. 🤷🏼♀️ But also, Feige really dropped the ball with Natasha across movies. Her continuity is a bit wacky, and how she is treated, perceived, portrayed, all of it, changes a lot more than anyone else.
To put it that way, I think it would have been interesting if the writers of the cosmic rules decided every stone demanded some other kind of sacrifice.
In the comics the soul gem is different from all the others similarly like in the mcu, in that it is actually semi sentient and has a thing with collecting souls. So while the other gems can be collected and used so long as you take the proper precautions, the soul gem basically demands that if you want to use it, you need to give it a soul in return, and there is no take backs once that's done.
Maybe it's all this talk about exchange, but all I'm hearing is that the infinity stonws follow FMA rules 😂 You really did explain that incredibly clearly though!
@@MeredithDomzalskifull metal alchemist. And in it there is something called the rule of exchange, Where to do alchemy you must give something equal to what you want to get. Its also why the brothers get fucked up when they first try to bring their mom back from the dead. They didn't factor in the rule of exchange, tried to just bring her back, and one brother literally loses an arm and a leg, while the other brother has his entire body taken by the spell and is now just a soul bound to a suit of armour. And they still didn't get their mom back
Another thing to factor in is that at least in the comics the soul gem is not like the other infinity gems, the soul gem is actually a semi sentient being in it's own right and it loves collecting souls. So it's not just that it would cheapen the sacrifice and make it pointless, 100% right on that btw, or that the soul stone no longer even has the power to bring that soul back, that was an interesting theory I hadn't actually considered before, it's also that well... a deal was made, the Nat's soul was given to the stone as it's price for being taken, it wants to keep that the souls it has collected so anyone trying to suddenly undo that deal is just going to get something like" fucking what? No bitch, that soul is mine now. No take backs " from the soul stone itself. And the stone will flat out refuse to give that soul back.
That’s actually a really good explanation. The one I came up with in my own mind for why it didn’t work was more a timey whimey reason. that if you bring back the person that was sacrificed or sacrificed themselves in Natashas casthe stone would not have been retrieved. In essence if you bring Natasha back after she sacrificed herself the stone would vanish because either the sacrifice was undone and the stone would return itself to Vormere or the sacrifice never happened in the first place hence the stone was never retrieved so it would still vanish if that makes sense
I also saw it as the fact that Bruce was trying to revive people originally snapped away - she wasn't one of them, and I highly doubt that the Soul Stone would allow you to bring back not only the Snapped away souls, but also just the soul of anyone else who died before that, - trying to bring back those whose deaths were unrelated to the Stones. It wasn't what took her away, so reversing it wouldn't bring her back. The Soul Stone may be powerful, but the power that would be necessary to bring back those whose death's they hadn't even caused has to breach some sort of limit. Like, it would likely limit you to either/or - you ask for the Stone to bring back the souls of those it took in the first Snap, OR you ask them to bring back souls it hadn't been holding already. You won't get the luxury of both so easily - it limits its own power for a reason, and it won't allow this so easily. Her soul as a sacrifice was also what "activated" the soul stone in the first place - what "powered it on" to be of use. That sacrifice is what keeps it in a state to be used - you can't take away the "juice" her sacrifice gave it and still expect the Stone to work. It's like taking out the battery and expecting it to work anyway. No dice.
Wanna cry some more? By the logic of the soul world explanation that means even in the after life Natasha and the rest of the avengers will never be reunited even in death as their souls are housed in different realities/universes so it's gonna hit even harder for those wishing to be reunited in the end...sooo yeah, may have ruined someone's day with that...enjoy...ok might be feeling guilty now...
Wait so if the soul stone doesn’t work within the soul world then where did the people that were snapped go in the first place if not the soul stone? And if they are in the soul stone how did they get back out? Not trying to invalidate your argument you just really made me stop and think about this for a minute and now it’s bugging me. Cause like i agree whole heartedly but now i have more questions then when i started.
I don't think they traveled anywhere, they were just... disintegrated. Like smashing glass into a million pieces. So the stones were able to later reassemble -the Avengers- everyone by putting them back together.
It's a paradox. You sacrificed the person to get the stone to do the snap. If you get the person back, you didn't sacrifice anything, therefore you don't deserve the stone and couldn't get it in the first place.
I understand why she can’t be snapped back into existence. However, I wonder if the trade could be reversed. Like, give back the soul stone and receive back the sacrifice
No. The Stones can't actually be "destroyed" per se. Instead, they were broken down and scattered. They still exist, just in a form that is harder to assemble.
Not gonna lie, when Natasha died, I seriously expected all the Original 6 to also bite the dust by the time Endgame would roll the end credits.
Fuck yea neurospicy rambling on nerd shit LETS GOO
If I had an infinity stone that didn’t work, I’d probably use it as a paperweight too 🤷🏾♂️
And if anybody’s wondering how Ultron was able to use the Gauntlet in different universes in “What If?”, they pretty much state that he is an anomaly and what made him so dangerous is that he really was from the only universe where the Gauntlet could work like that
They also said a soul for a soul not a life for a soul so even sadder but I believe Natasha’s soul is literally trapped in the soul world along with future Gamora’s.
Yep. 😢
Really dumb question, so please pardon me, but I forget how Gamora came back for GOTG 3.
If I'm recalling correctly, she wasn't brought back but came from a different universe, but I forget how that went down.
@MeredithDomzalski Okay long story but when they went back in time they found Thanos found out through Nebula’s Hardrive the plan to retrieve the stones so he followed the avengers back to 2023 so keep in mind the Thanos that they fight in Endgame is from 2014 and so is Gamora and his entire army The Thanos from Infinity War(2018) was already killed by Thor. So in the fight present Nebula convinces Gamora to join their side. So that Gamora is really from the Past explaining why she has no memories of Quill or the team.
@@killermothxd4085 Perfect! Thank you!
Oooo, yes. New Nicque rant/explanation dropped!
Interesting. My understanding from the movies was that her soul was destroyed in the process of gaining the soul stone. No soul to bring back, so she couldn't be brought back. No heaven. No hell. Nothing.
That’s how Robin Hood died in Once Upon a Time his soul Literally was destroyed no heaven no hell no afterlife he literally just faded from existence
(deep breath)
I NEEDED THIS 5 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(another deep breath)
But better now then never.🤣🤣
Also, basically the writers decided that Clint was more important because he had a family and Natasha didn't, according to them. Which is weird how they then try to establish that she did in the Black Widow movie.
Different writers. 🤷🏼♀️ But also, Feige really dropped the ball with Natasha across movies. Her continuity is a bit wacky, and how she is treated, perceived, portrayed, all of it, changes a lot more than anyone else.
I mean she did, but she also didn't. She wasn't really close to them, except for her sister, and that relationship was complicated.
I would watch so many of your layered explanations, looking forward to more!
This is actually helpful. Thank you.
Fine.
FINE. I'll watch Infinity War and Endgame....AGAIN.
Okay, okay, twist my arm!
As I was about to say but Thanos had a thing for....and then you said your hypothesis was in the MCU. Then I was like, ok. I'm with you.
I honestly did wonder about this. Thank you, Nicque ❤️
Queen came through for us with this one
OH YYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! NICQUE GOING OFF ON A LORE-BENDER!!!! LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Ok that technical explanation was definitely a big ah hah moment as it all clicked. Very cool!
To put it that way, I think it would have been interesting if the writers of the cosmic rules decided every stone demanded some other kind of sacrifice.
In the comics the soul gem is different from all the others similarly like in the mcu, in that it is actually semi sentient and has a thing with collecting souls. So while the other gems can be collected and used so long as you take the proper precautions, the soul gem basically demands that if you want to use it, you need to give it a soul in return, and there is no take backs once that's done.
Maybe it's all this talk about exchange, but all I'm hearing is that the infinity stonws follow FMA rules 😂
You really did explain that incredibly clearly though!
What is FMA?
@@MeredithDomzalskifull metal alchemist. And in it there is something called the rule of exchange, Where to do alchemy you must give something equal to what you want to get.
Its also why the brothers get fucked up when they first try to bring their mom back from the dead. They didn't factor in the rule of exchange, tried to just bring her back, and one brother literally loses an arm and a leg, while the other brother has his entire body taken by the spell and is now just a soul bound to a suit of armour. And they still didn't get their mom back
Another thing to factor in is that at least in the comics the soul gem is not like the other infinity gems, the soul gem is actually a semi sentient being in it's own right and it loves collecting souls.
So it's not just that it would cheapen the sacrifice and make it pointless, 100% right on that btw, or that the soul stone no longer even has the power to bring that soul back, that was an interesting theory I hadn't actually considered before,
it's also that well... a deal was made, the Nat's soul was given to the stone as it's price for being taken, it wants to keep that the souls it has collected so anyone trying to suddenly undo that deal is just going to get something like" fucking what? No bitch, that soul is mine now. No take backs " from the soul stone itself. And the stone will flat out refuse to give that soul back.
That’s actually a really good explanation. The one I came up with in my own mind for why it didn’t work was more a timey whimey reason. that if you bring back the person that was sacrificed or sacrificed themselves in Natashas casthe stone would not have been retrieved. In essence if you bring Natasha back after she sacrificed herself the stone would vanish because either the sacrifice was undone and the stone would return itself to Vormere or the sacrifice never happened in the first place hence the stone was never retrieved so it would still vanish if that makes sense
I also saw it as the fact that Bruce was trying to revive people originally snapped away - she wasn't one of them, and I highly doubt that the Soul Stone would allow you to bring back not only the Snapped away souls, but also just the soul of anyone else who died before that, - trying to bring back those whose deaths were unrelated to the Stones. It wasn't what took her away, so reversing it wouldn't bring her back. The Soul Stone may be powerful, but the power that would be necessary to bring back those whose death's they hadn't even caused has to breach some sort of limit. Like, it would likely limit you to either/or - you ask for the Stone to bring back the souls of those it took in the first Snap, OR you ask them to bring back souls it hadn't been holding already. You won't get the luxury of both so easily - it limits its own power for a reason, and it won't allow this so easily.
Her soul as a sacrifice was also what "activated" the soul stone in the first place - what "powered it on" to be of use. That sacrifice is what keeps it in a state to be used - you can't take away the "juice" her sacrifice gave it and still expect the Stone to work. It's like taking out the battery and expecting it to work anyway. No dice.
Wait did I miss a video when did she tease this rant?
Wanna cry some more? By the logic of the soul world explanation that means even in the after life Natasha and the rest of the avengers will never be reunited even in death as their souls are housed in different realities/universes so it's gonna hit even harder for those wishing to be reunited in the end...sooo yeah, may have ruined someone's day with that...enjoy...ok might be feeling guilty now...
Wait so if the soul stone doesn’t work within the soul world then where did the people that were snapped go in the first place if not the soul stone? And if they are in the soul stone how did they get back out?
Not trying to invalidate your argument you just really made me stop and think about this for a minute and now it’s bugging me. Cause like i agree whole heartedly but now i have more questions then when i started.
I don't think they traveled anywhere, they were just... disintegrated. Like smashing glass into a million pieces. So the stones were able to later reassemble -the Avengers- everyone by putting them back together.
Thank you
It's a paradox. You sacrificed the person to get the stone to do the snap. If you get the person back, you didn't sacrifice anything, therefore you don't deserve the stone and couldn't get it in the first place.
Bruce didn't sacrifice Natasha, Clint did... / Natasha sacrificed herself
Well said my lady of the marvel lore, well said.❤
I understand why she can’t be snapped back into existence. However, I wonder if the trade could be reversed. Like, give back the soul stone and receive back the sacrifice
I read that title wrong
I get that, but what about gamora? Her past self xame to the future, and basically replaced her. Why couldnt've they just bring past natasha back?
Because it would create an alternate timeline where that timeline’s Black Widow would be taken from them.
@@ChrisAnthonyGiles ah, true.
What does that soul Universe pocket dimension thing look like
I’m issue with both IW and Endgame is that both lead women died. So it why they will not be my favorite MCU movies.
So are all of the soul stones connected?
3:20 does that mean that when Thanos destroyed the stones in endgame, that he destroyed Gamora’s soul?
No. The Stones can't actually be "destroyed" per se. Instead, they were broken down and scattered. They still exist, just in a form that is harder to assemble.