You may really hate this. *THE IT CROWD* 3x04 Reaction - "The Speech"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2022
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Hope you enjoy my first time watching Episode 4 THE SPEECH of Series 3 of The IT Crowd.
Please watch the original content on Netflix.
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The Internet box is by far my favourite joke of the series
Glad it made it back to big Ben
I don't think it's anti trans as look at the character who is affected by it, he's not a role model he's an over sexual predator and not very bright as well, and despite the fight with her he seems genuinely upset at the end because he can't reconcile how he liked being with her but can't get over his self.
There needs to be a point where we can still show sexists being sexist, racists being racists and horrible people being horrible for bigoted reasons and realising that these people are horrible and shouldn't be emulated.
I totally agree. It’s a bit sad that nowadays we can lightly “cancel” comedy shows so easily without understanding that comedy is just that. No all shows needs to be smart/absurd humor like Monty Python, we also needs shows like IT Crowd or Little Britain with its overblown cliches and bad taste remarks. We need to tell reality and fiction apart, not censor just because today we have other sensibilities.
@@o15ika Nope. I will never defend bringing back The Black & White Minstrel Show.
Times change. You should change with them.
There's nothing wrong with a character expressing problematic views. I actually didn't mind Douglas in this episode. The biggest issue is that the camera/script also portray things problematically. Gags where the joke boils down to "trans women are actually men" permeate the episode. Things like April digging sports, winning arm wrestling, and punching hard are just low blows at trans women. That's not to say trans characters can't have those traits, but the joke is clearly "she's actually a man". And given the source it's hard to justify a more charitable reading
@@Evello37 I agree entirely, I think that you could argue she was portrayed like that so that Douglas has struck gold with her having so much in common with him but the stereotype itself is just not funny tbh and I think for me that’s the only real fault of the episode
I certainly agree, I think it would have been a problem if he was a character who keeps 'winning' but with him being sad and lonely at the end it rather represents that sort of mindset losing out which has to be a good thing, surely?
Overall that plot wasn't all that funny though, had a few moments but overall a distraction from the brilliant A plotline
Sidenote- I think that's Graham Linehan wearing a dodgy 'tache shouting "we're all gonna die" when the 'internet' gets destroyed?
Personally I think the episode is hilarious. I think it kind of redeems itself at the end when hes all alone and sobs that he cant be with her even tho he loves her because of his biases. 1st bit of human emotion u see from douglas lol Also the A plot is awesome.
the bloopers are amazing also. Like when they sit down at the small desk of Jen's the outtakes they cannot keep it together they find it so funny they break out laughing.
@@eolsunder This happened a lot, I went to see one of the second series being taped and they ran way over time because they kept making each other laugh. In the end they had to film them all individually with the others out of the room because they kept laughing so much.
I think it’s fine because her being trans was never the joke, the joke is that Douglas only cared about sex. But the fact it ends with him crying over her really makes it all come together for me.
April is a great character, beautifully portrayed, very fair in her approach (letting him know beforehand). I'd date her, from Iran or not. People've got preferences though but the joke's on Douglas for not listening to begin with, he brought this on himself. And I feel satisfaction that when she was gone, she took many of the things he enjoyed away from him. It was the one moment when I felt like Douglas learned something, about himself and others.
I think your view of this episode is clouded by your knowledge of Graham Linehan’s opinions. I watched the episode several times before we knew his views and I always saw Douglas as the butt of the joke. It seemed to be mocking him for having outdated views rather than mocking the trans person.
I mostly agree, but also the whole thing about April being interested into the typically male activities and the fight scene part of the joke, not that that trans women can't have those interests, is clearly trying to mock the idea that trans women are men. I also think that part just isn't funny, but that's subjective ofc.
@@michaelcolbourn6719 I do see your point and agree in part. As a trans woman, I also watched this way before we knew his views, and also saw it as Douglas being in the fault as he always is. I've rewatched this episode a few times in the recent past and I don't get offended by it, I laugh at the ridiculousness of it.
The fight scene was mocking her; it showed that, to the transphobe (Linehan), she was still a man.
@@Britonbear I just got it as Douglas being a stereotype, stuck in 1980s city boys culture.
@@Britonbear what I seriously dislike is the hate on Graham Linehan. I couldn't give a flying F®CK about trans or gay rights. Nothing to do with me.
It was at no ones expense.
This show is so true to life, I had a manager like this woman and she would always send emails out before she had a meeting in order to get some understanding of what to say because she had no background in I.T
The reaction to what is a classic and completely hilarious scene with Matt Berry’s character shows how far America has fallen as a country in the last 15 years. Still bloody hilarious. I can’t think of one American show as funny as this sitcom.
absolutely, we all went downhill since then. Linehan is a great talent: Father Ted, IT Crowd, Black Books. I don't care about his opinions on transsexuality. Humor = laughing at almost anything. Trans and gays are people too, they even have the right to be stupid like the rest of us.
Yeah, no. This show is generally hilarious, I agree with that, but "completely hilarious scene", no. There's no valid way to avoid interpreting many of the jokes about April as being straight-up transphobic. There's no denying that the underlying gag is "she likes the things Douglas likes because she's really a man too". Douglas's inner conflict at the end about his own internalised homophobia and transphobia is a different story - that's genuine character development - but it doesn't cancel out the transphobia elsewhere in the episode.
Cmon now, y'all KNOW damn well how he was gonna react to this episode...😉
Yup
Politically correct reaction lmao
Yeah, I think Linehan's current line clouds our view of this episode a bit, compared to what it actually says -- we're not supposed to think well of the clownish Douglas, and I do think April is presented quite positively most of the way and that we're supposed to kinda like their romance and feel she's been betrayed when he freaks out over his misunderstanding. On the other hand, all her "mannish" traits are the brunt of the joke up until the end, so while not deliberately hateful, it's still full of cheap trans jokes. That said, the jokes in the B-plot here are not a lot worse than the show's kinda basic and childish attitude to sexuality overall, in all the characters. It's part of the humour but also part of what makes it less sophisticated a comedy than fans (and I am a fan of it) often give it credit for.
If I remember correctly, the man screaming 'we are all going to die!' at Jen's presentation, is Graham Linehan; the writer of the series. :)
I really look forward to these reaction videos every Monday.
This is the only show on this channel of which I watch reactions to.
This is one of the best & most popular eps of The IT Crowd - the second most popular on IMDb.
Neil's now writing a review of the episode on IMDb.
@@cockoffgewgle4993 Has he written reviews for other eps of The IT Crowd?
Would you of found it more funny say if Douglas had a sex change (for example) or is it because making jokes about this kind of stuff in general? I’m just curious, 90% of Britain make jokes about anything and the line is not often stepped over. I think being able to make jokes about anything is a good thing.
would you have*
This episode is great lol. Ppl over think this ep tbh. It really shows Douglas is the bad one really. Ppl get way to serious and offended by anything
I don't think people would "overthink" the episode nearly as much if they hadn't known the show's writer is an unabashed transphobe.
He was only labeled a "transphobe" after people online attacked him for that episode. He was just trying to be funny, in a way that was accepted at the time, and years later someone calls him transphobic and he calls them ludicrous and it just snowballs from there.
Grab your popcorn, kids.
The episode I’ve been waiting for.
:-)
The Elephant Man actually figures prominently, and hilariously, in Matt Berry's Year of the Rabbit.
The man who shouts “We’re all going to die” when the internet is crushed, is Graham Linehan.
The guy who shouts "we are all gonna die" in the conference room is the series creator.
The speech storyline of this episode is sooooo good.
Also one of the (many) episodes where Linehan cameos too - at least the 3rd time so far in the episodes you've watched
As a woman... I joke. I joke.
This is one of my favorite issues. In part because it handles the issue according to surface reactions- popping the pressure balloon. It isn't concerned with the trans issue
I loved this episode.
Fun fact, the person that played April was also the model in dinner episode IIRC.
You recall incorrectly im afraid … so iri
I haven't actually had a look at this vid yet...
When these IT Crowd reaction vids drop, I always rewatch the episode in question myself first. I got a full series boxset back in the day, but it's been a while, so I head over to All4 to reacquaint myself with the episode. Given the title of this vid, and the fact that the episode isn't actually even up on All4 with the rest of series 3 (I had to watch on Netflix} told me I was in trouble. And given what's been said in previous IT Crowd reactions...this should be interesting. ;D
Moss's lil celebratory dance tho>>>👏👏😂😂😂💜
Late to this reaction party but knew in advance that this episode would be something of a clincher!
Hilarious, hearing Graham talking about his book brought me here.
I’ve never seen this show before.
The part with the trans woman doing ‘blokey stuff’ is a comment on Douglas’s narcissism - he is so alienated from the opposite sex that he is really just seeking a version of himself
reminds me of the earliest practical joke I ever pulled.
There was going to be a school disco and we were told that we could bring in tapes of our favourite songs. I'd been given a Kylie Minogue cassette for a christmas present and I wasn't keen on it. But a school friend was. I told him that if he gave me a blank tape I'd record it for him to bring along to the school disco. He managed to steal one of his mom's love ballad soppy dreary nonsense and put tape over the record protection and told me to record over it. I was going to do it but I had a much better idea. I would just pretend I had done it, put a sticker on it saying "Ste Shepton's favourite songs". Then the "DJ" would read the sticker out over the microphone at the disco and all we'd hear was his moms love songs. It went perfectly and all the rest of us were crying with laughter. I was about 6 or 7 years old. And right there and then I became the class clown. 10 years later I won the prize for the funniest person in the school and also won the prize for the least funniest person in school. That takes some skill. lol
I noticed how you daren't "react" to this because of the current climate, lol!
Sad. This ep is great lol
Just wait for the "small person racist" :p
No-one thinks Douglas is a great or nice guy. Few viewers are rooting for him. We're laughing at him.
society has mutilated our sense of humor
I enjoy The IT Crowd more now than when I first watched it.
Come on bud. People don’t seem to understand that a joke is entirely in the structure and delivery.
The words are your own making. You hear sounds and you make up the meanings, the meaning is not in the sound. It’s made up by each individual. To take it as something real and form moral guidelines is the result of millennia of severe indoctrination.
The reason you have trouble with laughing is because you forcefully stop yourself out of the imaginary guidelines you’ve created for yourself for what’s right/wrong out of an unconscious fear that you may misbehave.
It stems from an unconscious guilt because you actually see trans people as lesser. It goes the same for everyone else, until you see it in yourself there’s no chance of understanding what’s happening.
From birth, the differences are thrown at us. But that would be fine were the differences not ranked. We are conditioned to view certain people as more valuable and others as less.
Some embrace this view and become hateful towards those they perceive as lesser. Some reject this view and become hateful towards those they perceive as better.
Both fundamentally have the same exact issue, they view one group as better and one as lesser.
Again, until you see this within yourself you’ll keep justifying it with an immature “it’s right” or “it’s wrong”. It’s time to drop the conditioning forced upon you and think for yourself.
I look at this episode in a similar way to how I look at Blazing Saddles. April is a genuinely nice person, they get along really well until Douglas realises he wasn't paying enough attention at the start and misheard what she said... then his own issues ruin everything. Missing her at the end shows he at least realises how stupid his overreaction was. It's along the same lines as the dumb white people in Blazing Saddles thinking negatively about the non-white people before they even get to know them. The townsfolk end up appreciating and liking them in the end (but the bad guys don't and pay for their racist ways accordingly).
I think the fact that she physically attacked him and started a fight because he rejected her isn't a very positive portrayal of a trans person. The way she described her transgender status was also pretty clumsy and unrealistic. It seemed like no effort was made to give a fair or sensitive portrayal of a transgender person. A big part of the joke was just 'this person is really a man'. "You bastard!"
@@Will-nn6ux You seriously expect a sensitive portrayal of anyone in a British sitcom that is peopled with stereotypes. You funny.
There's something to enjoy here. April's maleness makes her a good fit for Douglas, as they can do manly activities together, but it also makes them incompatible, as Douglas is a heterosexual. It's irony.
If there's anything cruel to transgenders in this episode, it's that they picked such a pretty woman to play the role. That level of natural feminine beauty is just unattainable for any man, so, a transgender viewer may feel like the writers are rubbing their face in it.
This episode was fun. It really should be included in the normal rotation of reruns. People are just terrified of the transgender issue, and they tiptoe around it.
Oh but it is funny love 🌈
A politically correct reaction. It’s blasphemy to make fun of trans these days. On the other hand making fun of men is all good. Make it make sense.
A trans man and a trans woman I know both think this episode is hilarious - and yet, I totally agree with you, my instinct is to be cautious about this. I’m a gay man, and the “Gay” episode (Work Outing) is one of my absolute favourites, even though it plays on some obvious cheap (and outdated) clichés. And you’re spot-on… knowing Linehan is such a transphobe adds to the complexity. Still… I find it interesting that in the final shot Douglas is crying and lonely, and missing the WOMAN he fell in love with. It’s probably the most human we’ve ever seen his character. And he’s in pain because - and ONLY because - of his own bigotry. It doesn’t entirely excuse all the lazy cliché… but it does offer a meaning that’s at least a little deeper.
I really think the problem was with Graham Linehan's response to the criticism. Instead of saying "I honestly didn't intend to offend, how can I learn from this?" He instead, for some reason insisted he did mean to be transphobic.
I think the episode should be used to discuss things such as gender roles and its arbitrary nature and the difference between gender and sex.
@@chrisellis4400 the whole transgender rights thing is just a media circus and he was probably just sick of it all. He probably doesn’t give a shit.
@@chrisellis4400 Graham is pro LGB and pro-woman.
Changing a man's genitals doesn't make him a woman, regardless of how he feels inside. What literally defines a woman is the existence of a womb, the correct chromosomes, and certain muscle mass and bone structure. Such a man may not feel like other men, for deep immutable totally valid genetic reasons, but that just means that he's a different kind of man, not a woman. Even if you call such a person a woman, EFFECTIVELY that's still a man, in terms of physical prowess. So the fight you're seeing in this episode is like between two men (even tho the actress is female obviously!). The fact that Douglas still cries over her as a woman he lost, is a HUGE olive branch, 💯% ANTI transphobic. There was no FEAR in Lineham's exploration of the subject. If he said he was transphobic it was because of the twisting of definitions of what a man and woman (womb-man) is, and his FEAR of what society will become as a result of words losing meaning.
Thank you.
@@natmanprime4295 And how does this person know they don't feel like a man? Which man's feelings are they comparing their own to?
"I know what a man feels like and I don't feel like that" is a square-circle I cannot respect.
I didn't know that about Graham
I've never seen this episode as anti-trans. I see at as pro-trans even. It showed how Douglas had no idea he was dating a trans woman, and thus that it's no different; it's only different in your head, when you know they're trans. Which is how it ended with Douglas not being able to handle the knowledge even tho they had a great time together.
You also have to remember that transgender-based comedy is VERY popular in the UK, and not in a phobic way. They're very open about it and there's numerous trans and flaming gay celebrities there. It's really more of a hang-up in the U.S.
I had no idea who Graham Linehan is until I looked him up after you mentioned him.
This was kind of the origin of Linehan's odd drift into that area. I think he wrote this as a silly storyline and didn't expect to get any more of a reaction than he got for gay people liking musicals or whatever. I think the extent of the reaction sort of nudged him down a rabbit hole of sorts - kind of like a self-fulfilling prophesy I guess; he was labelled transphobic, and then over time found himself joining a community of people with strong views about transgender issues, etc. and eventually finding himself very isolated and now more-or-less "cancelled". I don't think he had any particular opinion on the subject (other than a broadly liberal/left/tolerant one) prior to the reaction to this episode of the IT Crowd. Which is pretty odd, for all sorts of reasons.
JK Rowling didn't mention trans issues in the early years of her fame, yet she has become a very well-known anti-trans activist. That's even more surprising, because her books don't deal with trans issues.
@@andrewjones575 Again, in so far as she did say anything it tended to be along the lines of "everyone should be treated with respect and not be discriminated against", etc. In both cases they claim to be speaking on behalf of a certain type of feminism and consider themselves the progressives in the argument - rather than coming directly from a sort of conservative perspective. But it has found them both in a very odd place, professionally and intellectually.
@@doctordunc Yes, and both are clear that a person cannot have a pen15 & be a woman. An aim of most trans women is to be accepted as women, to prevent any reason for not allowing them to compete in female sports events & to have access to all-female spaces.
This is the way I remember him explaining it: It was just an old-fashioned stupid joke that he didn't really think about. At the time this was made jokes like this weren't unusual. But where other people who made similar jokes have looked back on their older shows and apologised, it made him pick a side and start campaigning on it. And personally I'd be okay with him just having a different view than mine if he hadn't crossed from debate into trolling on it as he has.
@@stras676 He believes in the cause of protecting all-female spaces.
The internet story was brilliant. It may as well be in a box at the top of big ben guarded by the elders, for all the average person still knows about it today. That whole segment was hilarious
the trouble is probably most people these days also do not know what the internet is. I doubt most people you would ask would have the faintest clue what it's composed of.
Can you please please watch Toast of London, I think you’d love it!
Not aged brill for trans people haha
IT Crowd is a great show for what I call "the Knot".
In writing terms, it's when all of the disperate threads of the story weave themselves together into "The Knot" at the end of the episode without ever seeing how they will tie together. The way the B plot crashes through the window to deliver the payoff to the A plot.
It's something Linehan is really good at in his writing.
That said, I agree it's difficult to watch a lot of Linehan's stuff now, given how completely off the deep end he's gone in recent years.
In it's defense, this was just before the public online discussions surrounding Trans rights. When "They're Trans!" could serve as a punchline (see Ace Ventura). That isn't canned laughter, it's a live studio audience. Audiences at the time found it funny.
I can let it fly, with the proviso that it does really mark how far we've come in terms of social progress in regards to LBGTQ - but yeah, even back then I do remember thinking "this is pretty off colour" - having grown up with a freind who transitioned, and played in a band with a trans female bassist.
It is getting more and more difficult to separate the art from the artist in regards to Linehan.
But, the performances are excellent. I absolutey love Matt Berry, no one can deliver a line like him.
It's a mixed bag.
People still find it funny today.
But yes, it's one of the few sitcoms which is actually plot-driven. Most sitcoms have weak/cliched/tenuous plots and the laughs are just built around the characters and their interactions. A couple of my favourite sitcoms are Frasier and South Park, and they're also plot-driven.
It's comedy gold.
Satirising a stereotypical alpha male sexually aggressive boss is just hilarious. The joke is all on him.
I honestly don’t have a particularly strong opinion of this episode either way, but I’ll say that this comment section yet again shows how the people quick to complain about ”triggered woke PC people” are equally, if not more, triggered themselves by the most insignificant things. Like, you know, a reactor reacting in a way that you deem unacceptable. I think when anyone makes the decision to watch a reaction video they kinda need to accept that the reaction might not align with their own, and that’s perfectly fine. It just comes with the territory. If you’re not here for honest reactions (be they good or bad in your book), then why are you?
😂
I understand the struggle between the art and the artist. Many artists have been people that in reality would have been a nightmare to know. Wagner being the obvious one with his rabidly antisemitic views. Also Mozart was a frivolous manchild. Yet both these people came out with music that is some of the best ever written. And, strangely, the most human.
Does the B story reflect Graham Linehan's views? Who knows?! All know is that the first time I saw this episode the A story had me doubled up in pain with laughter. Something that only the greats such as Peter Sellers and Douglas Adams had done previously.
I love the IT crowd, and personally always find this episode hilarious, but completely get where you're coming from on the B plot (Matt Berry has distanced himself from this ep also). You're a great content creator, and we're here for your honest opinions/reactions, so glad you are sharing your honest views and we would expect nothing less!
Personally, I think the B plot is a bit of silly fun, playing on the ignorance and narcissism of Douglas but it's not super clever or anything, just a bit silly. I do think the fight scene is pretty hilarious with some good slapstick gags etc. Anyway, on to the next...!
I mean, Douglas never even showed disgust toward April physically. He just couldn't deal with the idea of her past life in general. If he can't help his feelings, should he be punished for them? I honestly don't see where the ignorance and narcissism comes into play. Is he obliged to be with April because it's the politically correct thing to do and not because he likes her? There's probably more to a relationship than just the personality.
Well you've reached the last episode that hasn't aged well. There might be one more (S04E03), but that's one I think continues to be funny by being silly.
I think you're right to feel uncomfortable about some of this show, I struggle especially with this one as Jen and the internet is one of the best jokes they show has done, but it's backed up by that weird B-plot
As a trans woman I appreciate your view on this episode.
Comedy should always include aspects that people might find taboo. In this very show, there has been episodes involving cannibalism and pretending to be disabled. Neither of those episodes provoked any reaction.
I do wonder how much of Lineham's progression to the position he now holds began at the point of this episode being castigated/attacked/removed. No mention of the subject during Father Ted, no mention of it in Black Books, and a single mention in this show.
Thank god it wasn't something written by J.K. Rowling.
This is not controversial. Bad man does bad thing and regrets it as he looses his chance at happiness. That is the moral of the story in one sentence. To slightly elaborate but still simplify it, the moral is that he let his insecurities and his discrimination get in the way of being with the woman he loved. He clearly ends the episode missing her, and he has learnt a lesson from it. Not to mention her article exposes him as a bigoted, transphobic "arsehole" as the cover says. His reputation is damaged, his happiness is lost and he ends the episode in bed, alone, crying because he knows he did a bad thing. And no audience member came out of this thinking he did the right thing. No one came out thinking that's the person I want to be, crying alone. It's a great story about not letting your instincts cloud your judgment. To question what you think you believe before you act. And I think the most problematic thing in this video is your response. You are right. Your instant response to finding out she was trans was to forget this is a comedy and to instantly tie it to real life. Like so many other people today, you took it upon yourself to feel offended for other people. You assumed the worst and missed the whole moral of the story because you were too busy waiting to find the point where they would cross the line, but in missing the moral of the story, that line was crossed from the very beginning. I'm not surprised, after other reactions, I can see that you go into defence mode at the slightest whiff of controversy. But it is ok to laugh at darker humour.
Yeah I can agree with this, better explained than me with my poor English.
What "bad things" did he do? He's a straight man and isn't attracted to men. That isn't "discriminatory", it's his sexuality.
He's really the victim in the episode. He's the one who gets punched in the face. He's the one who is sexually violated. None of this silly gender ideology makes the remotest sense. The jokes in this episode aren't even laughing at the "trans" woman. It's not like in the "boseyed" episode where they're literally just laughing at disabilities. Added to which, with a character like Douglas you can get away with doing anything because he's supposed to be insensitive. Just like we laugh at Alan Partridge saying offensive things.
@@cockoffgewgle4993 all fair points. But honestly, I'm just trying to to approach this from an angle that the trans activists might listen to as opposed to airing my own personal feelings. If they believe he was in the wrong fair enough, just like it's fair enough that you think he is the victim. I'm not judging either way. But even if you are of the mindset that he is the villain and he has done something wrong, you cannot deny the fact that he comes off worse. Both on terms of him being shown to be a bigot and in the show, he is unhappy with how it resulted. The episode shows him to be problematic but deals with it by having his actions have consequences which leaves him worse off for it. The episode itself is not problematic because its moral is don't be transphobic. You see I'm accepting the trans activists argument because I'm that confident that the episode is not problematic that I can still prove my point playing by their rules.
It’s interesting that a lot of LGBT people seem to be giving this episode some sort of pass. I think sometimes when you’re ‘the target’ it’s easier for you to decide the spirit in which to take a joke. For those of us with a bit more distance from the subject matter it is just cringy, and we don’t have the magical power to go “but it’s ok, because I am X and I’m ok with it.”
It’s like sometimes you might see some friends bantering and as an outsider think that actually some of the jabs are quite full on and hard to hear, but for the people in that relationship they’ve had the time to adjust to each other’s sensitivities and set boundaries that they each understand
But in this case LGBT people are not the ones with the banter it is the Graham Linehan's of this world.
It's not a magical power it's called a medium-backbone.
FWIW, I had a trans friend who said there was 'so much wrong' with this episode. She didn't write the show off because of this one episode though, and would still watch The Red Door to cheer herself up.
@@Will-nn6ux the main problem was with using a female actress to play the part. But it was inevitable as no one would believe Douglas would be attracted to an actual trans
It's a fucking funny episode.
If this show portrays the authors views, then the authors think transphobia is bad.
It’s not problematic, it’s a flawed character.
The writer is an outspoken transphobe.
@@SilverEye91 Outspoken is a massive understatement.
Obsessed to the point where his family disassociated themselves from him and his wife left him.
It's COMEDY for gawd's sakes!!! Leave your moral hangups at the door- cause it's a joke!!! Thank god for that fecking big ocean!
"It's a joke"
The catchcry of bullies throughout history.
It's a pretty low hanging fruit of sub plot. There could have been countless other ways to build in someone smashing the Internet. But it feels like folk are just over analysing a silly sitcom.
the B plot of this is horrible but the A plot with Jen is some of the funniest content ever to come out of british comedy
I actually think the reverse. That's the beauty of the show though I suppose. There's something for everyone
The A plot is beautifully done. I think 'problematic' is probably a reasonable description for the B plot. It's by no means horrific, but it's also treading a very thin line, and that line is in a different place for various people, so it's clearly going to split people to some degree. I can separate that from Linehan's personal feelings about Trans issues (which I pretty much oppose 100%), but I just don't quite think it works as comedy, and certainly not in the overall landscape of the rest of the series. I think when Linehan is writing at his best, he's a master, but he slips into some lazy tropes sometimes that just feel very flat, and some have dated pretty quickly. Personally I prefer his work on Black Books, which is also not perfect, but appeals more to my sense of the absurd and also - Bill Bailey.
Those people can refrain from watching it. Isn't it enough to put a disclaimer that there might be "offensive" content in the episode (although Douglas is obviously shown to be somewhat of a negative character so I don't see the problem tbh).
Woof. This comment section.
Ah yeah, agreed. This was a good episode ruined by a horrible B-plot 😔😔
All the laughter whilst a woman is getting kicked, punched and thrown through glass is just too nasty. There's no excusing it, except to say that this episode could have been great. *sigh*
If they had just kept playing it straight it would’t have been that bad, just cliche boring and tasteless, but it was when the punchline was just Douglass being shocked someone…exists. Like, there is no joke, it’s just someone weirdly reacting to basic information as if it were a jump scare. And then the fight scene, come the fuck on, the subtext of “we can get away with this if we say she is trans and frame Douglass as a victim of deception” is hard to miss.
I appreciate the way you responded. Thanks for looking out and being decent.
.... or Douglas is just fine with the person he met but can't get over the indoctrination of the society he has grown up in? That him sobbing at the end is just that, crying about not being able to get over it, knowing that he met possible the perfect partner and threw it away because if his own problems?
You see, when you look at things with uberwoke glasses, then ANY kind of comedy about a touchy subject suddenly becomes a taboo. But when you just look at it and don't judge, the final lesson is totally different. To me, this is transpositive episode. One has to be REALLY up their own ass with wokeism to see it problematic. Anything can be judged like that and the world becomes really, really boring and unfunny. And the reality still is: NOTHING is too sacred to be made fun of.
@@squidcaps4308 I see where you're coming from, but the culmination of the punchlines was (cartoon) violence perpetrated on a transwoman, which is, at the VERY least, incredibly tiresome for a community who sees that happening over and over and over again to them. Douglas crying over the fact that his societal indoctrination and bias led to the toxic masculinity that prevented him from being with a person he really enjoyed kind of pales in the face of violence on the transwoman, as over the top as it was supposed to be.
@@jeremymlad "violence perpetrated on a transwoman,"
She hit him too, how is that ONE SIDED violence?
@@squidcaps4308 "She" hit him FIRST. Lol. These people are genuinely insane. You can't reason with them.
@@jeremymlad His "toxic masculinity"? You mean his sexuality? lol. Remember when wokies told us that sexuality was intrinsic and should be respected? Back when they were pro-gay? But now they openly coerce straight men into fucking men who pretend they're women. 🤣
The thing is, the comedy really exposes Linehans prejudices. April basically acts like a man, doing and saying all these bloke-ish things, culminating in a fist-fight with Douglas. The comedy is: That's really a man, not a woman. This is something that only exists in the bigoted head of Graham Linehan and others of his ilk. No trans woman is like that.
"The comedy is: That's really a man, not a woman. This is something that only exists in the bigoted head of Graham Linehan and others of his ilk."
And in any biological textbook lol. If no "trans woman" is like that, why are you offended by it?
Fr ted is the peak of lineham writing.
I very much remembered the Internet joke. It’s so funny. The trans storyline, I’d completely forgotten about. Last time I left a comment about the IT crowd I really went off on one about sexism towards women on this show. It did make me feel very uncomfortable, but I think it was a unique take on the topic and the surprises did make me laugh. In a way, you still need to remember it’s like a cartoon. Would we feel the same if the characters were illustrated like King of the Hill? I don’t know, I’m just putting that out there. I don’t know anything about the person you were talking about. The creator of the show? I don’t know anything about that. But yes, it’s pretty bad if that storyline is his chance to play out the fantasy of punching a trans woman in the face.
Graham Linehan has no desire to punch anyone in the face, let alone a trans woman. This episode was written well before the trans community started finding EVERYTHING that didn't 100% agree with their somewhat ludicrous claims and entitlements to be phobic. And the trans woman throws the first punch; if anything, Douglas fighting back is a sign that he too values equal rights.
@@KevPage-Witkicker You seem to be under the impression that the "trans woman throwing the first punch" is a valid reason for the final fight scene - but then you have to remember that the writer WROTE that, Linehan wrote April to throw the first punch as the classic "Manly agressive trans woman" trope. Nobody disagrees Douglas shouldn't have fought back, but the fact that he's involved in a lengthy fight scene with the only trans woman on the show after she's written to assault him is objectively in bad taste.
But you know this, your comment is explicitly written to already deride transness. Like - devoid of context, this could be taken as good spirited joking - but in context it definitely comes across as intended to be derrogatory and mocking towards trans people. It's not that "EVERYTHING is transphobic" - it's that art that has themes can be reinterpreted upon finding out the creator has certain political biases that could've motivated the choices made.
If I make a show called "Lev Sage" about a guy who steals from the homeless and burns down churches, and I don't know anyone who has a name close to this - it could just be that's what I named my character. But if we contextualize it with the fact that I notably don't like a guy named kev page, it comes across a bit different doesn't it? It turns what could be a funny satirization into a (perhaps tacitly) malicious hitpiece.
@@KevPage-Witkicker He went so extreme with his views and couldn’t drop it that his marriage broke up because of it.
@@spoon1555 that's a trope?
I’m interested in your opinions too. I’m not going anywhere. In fact I disliked Linehan before it was cool for his absolutely woeful attitudes to free speech.
Up until the mob came after him and he suddenly believes in it again.
He’s the sort to make “offensive jokes” then pull up the ladder behind him and use his pulpit to lambast others who make similar and sometimes tamer jokes.
April came off as really strong in the episode, while Douglas (who cant accept a transgender partner) comes off being really pathetic.
I think that's a fair assessment, and this episode bothers me a little as well. On the one hand, you've got the A plot, which is classic IT Crowd - it's absurd, it's cartoonish, it's hilarious. It's one of the most famous and popular storylines of the whole show, which will be why so many people described this as their favourite episode. But the B plot is completely indicative of the man we now know Graham Linehan is, and it doesn't sit well with me. Channel 4 went as far as adding a content warning and then even removing the episode from their on-demand service, and while removing it is a bit extreme in my view, a content warning is definitely warranted. I think it's such a shame that one of the best A plots was paired with one of the worst B plots. If you do watch Father Ted as well, it also has episodes that haven't aged brilliantly.
What's so bad about Graham Linehan? He's a great writer & his views on trans issues are commonplace.
How has Father Ted aged badly?
@@andrewjones575 just because his views are commonplace doesn't make them acceptable. It's well documented that he doesn't think that trans women are women.
There are episodes of Father Ted featuring blackface and racial stereotypes that Channel 4 have also added warnings to, and Father Jack's attitudes towards women can sometimes go too far.
You're perfectly welcome to your own opinions on the man and his work, and I love Father Ted and The IT Crowd at their best, but there are episodes like this one that leave a knot in my stomach.
@@15schaa Most people don't think that trans women are women. Would you say, for example, that Caitlyn Jenner is a woman is every way? That there's nothing about him at all that's manly? That any straight man should be fine about going on a date with him?
Strange, I'm not bothered at all by this episode, find it funny as shit, and also respect anyone I see or meet if they are a good person, regardless of what is hanging between their legs or what they have on their birth certificate.
Funny how that works. It's almost like I'm an adult with a sense of nuance.
Oh, welp.
@@15schaa They're not condoning racism in Father Ted, you smart person you. They're expressing irony at racists and bigots.
I think the fact he cries for April at the end wraps the whole thing up nicely without being insensitive to anyone 🙂
Bull.
Might have been better if you skipped this episode, you were definitely primed not to like it (even if you were trying to stifle laughter), personally one of the best episodes along with work outing in my opinion 🤷♂️
I don't think trying to revise/impose views or intentions of this episode retrospectively is fair when at the time Linehan wasn't expressing anything like his current anti trans bs. People change, their beliefs and opinions change, the Linehan that wrote/directed this is not the same frankly unwell person we know today.
I don't believe any of the many actors/crew/writing partners or general industry would have tolerated those views if he showed any sign throughout his long career - just like they aren't today and i don't believe it's true to say what are now his views being in the writing, the trans character came off as the sane likeable normal person while daring to not portray her as perfect and allow some jokes at her expense while showing up Douglas for his childish views demonstrated as he scribbles over her picture and cries into his desk.
There are often jokes at the expense of broad stereotype characters in the show, homeless, short people etc but the arc and purpose of those jokes are to reflect on the main characters and to expose their attitudes/ineptitude either just for a laugh or to make a point, which is what the very obvious scene at the end is doing - Douglas crying over his own prejudice ending a great relationship now irretrievable.
You said you were giving every episode a fair chance but by reading comments or anything relating to supposed controversy before watching impairs your ability to give unbiased criticism and to be fair there is enough cultural nuance that goes over your head however well versed you are.
There is truth in saying there are some parts that haven't dated that well just by being there, regardless the intention - in this and many shows.
Society moves on (hopefully) in a progressive direction, a lot of the arguments surrounding issues like this are misinterpreted by all "sides" intention, meaning, nuance get lost in translation.
In any case keep doing what you do, try not to take the show or the issues in relation to the show too seriously that you end up dying on the opposite hill to the one graham has done.
Unwell? Really? I just watched him live on GB News, and he seemed absolutely fine to me, and has spent the last 4 years writing "Father Ted" the musical. He also pointed out that trans women are now going on "Lesbian" dating sites expecting actual lesbian women to date essentially men in dresses, and if the actual lesbians complain, they are banned from the dating site. I don't believe that men can be women and vice versa. Does that mean I'm "unwell"? He is an extremely intelligent and talented man, who expressed an opinion. Remember them?
Hey there, Neil! Around 18:27 you say, that it comes at the expense of a minority - I presume, you mean transitioned people. Watching this episode, I have a hard time finding that expense. I don't see the transitioned character April being portrayed with negative stereotypes of transitioned people, with which some argue, that they aren't a real woman/man. And with the fact, that in the end Douglas beats April up, I wouldn't come to the conclusion, that it is a negative statement against transitioned people. As you say, Douglas has been portrayed as a character, who regularly acts against decency and makes morally speaking objectionable decisions. Maybe I just don't see the expense, you speak of. Would you (or someone) care to elaborate?
I can only speak to my issue with the April story. Which is that April is portrayed as essentially still being a man in every way, but appearance. And then it's April, the transgender woman, who becomes violent... and Douglas has to fend her off until she's lying in a bloody heap. Personally I find that a disturbing visual message. All that does is reinforce the negative associations about transgendered women really just being volatile men. It's a shame because I find the Internet story to be marvelous. Anyway, that's what bothered me... it was at April's expense in the portrayal... particularly with the fight. I still enjoy much about the show though. Especially Moss.
@@anomalysakawendy5096 Women instigating domestic violence against men is very true to life. You look up the stats on it. And it's rarely addressed. So the episode is very progressive in this respect.
I struggle with the term Transphobia. It's as if people who disagree with the notion that trans people are definitively the gender they say they are afraid of hateful towards trans people. I don't think it's a fair term. It's not fear, it's the opinion that gender and sex aren't the same thing isn't it? Is considering genetics the definitive driver behind sexual characteristics phobic? I don't think you can argue that case. Anyway, it's a difficult problem without a simple solution but I think people have a right to voice a contrary opinion without being completely castigated and ostracised. It's not pleasant for trans people either though. It's hard enough to go through a transition without further tribulations. Who knows how we will approach it but I hope we find a solution that makes everyone feel more comfortable and accepted.
It is the pro-trans crowd that think gender and sex aren't the same thing. It is the anti-trans crowd like Linehan who don't believe that.
Nowadays not many things you can make comedy about without offending anyone.
Yeah this episode has always been a weird one for me. Loved the actual Speech part. The other plot I always found a bit needless. I don' care for Douglas's character at all. Wish they could've kept the first guy around.
Maybe his father Denholm shouldn't have caused irregularities in the employee pension fund.
Completely agree. I know some people love Douglas but I find him largely unfunny and that the show would be much better without him.
I think this episode is much worse in retrospect given how anti-trans he is.
Same here. I always liked Morris much more. He is naturally funny - on the other hand, I have absolutely no issues with the B-plot. Graham Linehan is a great talent. What's the problem with being anti-trans by the way? It's just an opinion.
I'm with you, Neil. I really wanted to like this show a lot more than I did because I was such a fan of Father Ted & Black Books, but very little of this show hits for me, and not just the homophobia & transphobia. I just don't find many of the jokes funny. It feels like Linehan is punching down in most of it. It feels like his other shows succeeded because he had writing partners who kept his worst instincts in line, allowing him to do the ridiculous setup/payoff that he does so well. But on his own, his work just seems mean-spirited in general. In his world, everyone is dumber than him & deserving of ridicule because of it.
I've always felt Arthur Matthews did most of the heavy lifting in terms of writing on Father Ted, or at the very least his presence kept Linehan on a tighter leash
As for Black Books, word on the street is that Linehan didn't actually do much (if any) of the writing and had very little involvement with the first season, they just needed his name involved to basically sell the show to Channel 4 as Dylan Moran wasn't really known at the time. The idea and characters were all Moran initially, Linehan was only brought onboard later in the process at the suggestion of someone high up in the production company. And then of course Linehan had zero involvement after Season 1 anyway. I believe Moran had very little time for him as a person.
Of the three shows, The IT Crowd is certainly the lesser. Its still very good, but not as good as Father Ted or Black Books
People are so butt hurt over anything nowadays,it’s comedy chill out
I'm totally with on this episode. I loved Father Ted and The IT Crowd and was heartbroken when I found out about Graham Linehan's views. I can mostly divorce the art from the artist, but there are times when I can't help cringing.
Man up
Heart broken? I think it might be you with the problem. I just can't imagine being heart broken because someone has a different view to me.
@@jeffrey44 especially when that view is pro-LGB and pro-women. Makes you wonder about them really
@@miff227 the view isn’t ‘pro women’. It’s an excuse. I’m a cis gendered woman and they are not pro me And Linehan has a history of not being pro-women. Anyone who witnessed his early days on Twitter knows that. Never did like women explaining his sexism to him and reacted quite nastily when it happened. When he was called on it, he’d flounce off Twitter for a while.
@@itsonlysound all your comment tells me is that you are not pro-woman and have a warped definition of sexism, likely because you are a woman and have the brain structures and connections desperate to placate and get along with the most powerful in your tribe.
It's rough watching TV shows you oved from the past sometimes. I remember thinking this episode was so hilarious, and parts of it ARE. but other parts obviously have not aged well, and were not great even in their time. It can be kind of cringe. I love this show but man can it be problematic sometimes these days.
Problematic only if you care, just enjoy stuff, doesn't really matter what you do anyway, people always find something to be offended, you can literally have an empty room and there still be some idiot crying how it's offensive.
the show is fine it's you and your social conditioning into perverse ideas that is the problem.
Okay, first off, still love the show, even if certain things are pretty cringe. Second off. I obviously wasn't the only one cringing. The dude reacting was literally visibly cringing at some of it too.
Either way. Just because you don't think it's a problem to treat harmless people like shit for who they are doesn't make you cool or some sane person standing against some moral attack.
Either way, have the day you deserve.
@@worland102688 If he was cringing, that's his problem and he shouldn't watch the episode.
I don't quite get the seemingly extreme gatekeeping for this series. The comedy is often brilliant, but also sometimes cheap and unbalanced. But those are the pros and cons when the writing is a product of one person's mind. Honestly, it's a rare show that is above any valid criticism. Especially as comedy is subjective. You can love a show, enjoy a show, and still acknowledge its flaws. I do with my favorite shows.
You contradicted yourself there. You can't in one sentence say the show is above any valid criticism and then say that you can acknowledge a shows flaws even if you love it. That right there is you saying that no show is above criticism.
Sorry... You've misinterpreted me. I'm saying that no show is, or should be, above criticism. No matter how much we might love or generally enjoy them. And that this one certainly is not above criticism. Neither is comedy itself, as a form, above criticism. The gatekeeping here is by those fans who seemingly tolerate no other opinions or critiques of The IT Crowd. I find the over defensiveness of the comedy to be unwarranted. It's flawed at times... as are most things.
When I said that it's a rare show that's above criticism... I was refering broadly to the breadth of shows and that it's extremely very rare to ever find one to be wholly above criticism. Certainly not this one. Apologies for the confusion.
The real funny part of the Douglas/April storyline is him not listening at dinner, and that misunderstanding. The "manly trans woman" trope is weak and transphobic. The Internet storyline is AMAZING. The fight scene was good. And (what I understood to be) Douglas regretting it at the end, because he really loved April, was a nice touch, because he's always too stupid for his own good.
But yeah, since Graham came out as a transphobe, this episode is harder to watch.
Isn't a man not listening to a woman a misandrist trope?
@@cockoffgewgle4993 Apt username
@@SaintDomingo1 Surprised I haven't been banned yet for transphobia. 🤣
@@cockoffgewgle4993 Most trans women don't want their cockoff!
@PGH Engineer Some of them insist on giving lesbians & straight men a six-inch surprise, as well as using spaces that are all-female, such as toilets & dressing rooms.
The episode is hilarious but dated, it would not fly in todays society purely to not chance any influence. You have to remind yourself that the boss is portrayed intentionally as the stupid bad guy that did not earn their position... i mean his dad was embezzling money from the pension fund and jumped out a window early in the story.
I do feel that you look into the character too much and give him too much "credit", the only people that "idolise" in him are trolls on the internet. Not once have i ever heard anything positive in reference to that character in the many discussions i have had about IT Crowd over the decade plus in person, with only mentions of how stupid and nasty he is.
You have also got to remind yourself that you are a modern Canadian watching a dated cancelled British sitcom and whilst it was only made in 2008 and may not seem a long time ago... a LOT in society has change since then...
It's only problematic for people who are too easily offended. Calling people "transphobes" for having opinions based on basic facts (hard as they may be for some) is wrong and a tactic of the divisive woke far left
I think there are a few ways to look at this episode. The views and opinions of the man behind The IT Crowd do now appear to make the episode worse than it seemed when it first came out. I remember watching it all when it was being released and it was as funny as any other episode, I didn't put any deep thought behind it. But that's also perhaps because of how things were then (even though it wasn't that long ago) and how the world has changed now to be more mindful of the trans community, if I can word it like that.
We keep going back to Douglas being the butt of the joke because it's his own bigotry that caused his heartache. He brought it on himself, and that's fine but I wonder if that alone makes the episode alright. I don't know if we're being too sensitive or if this is a case of the episode being "alright" at the time but not anymore.
I hope it doesn't spoil the show overall for you, the vast majority of the series is well written and a very much loved comedy - my favourite British sitcom of the 2000s.
Great point. However, I'd even caution about calling Douglas's biases to be "bigotry." If anything, he demonstrated a gender preference (literally a sex preference) and he didn't see this "man" as a real "woman." This can be based on things apart from bigotry -- from culture, religion, nature, intrinsic biases or even science. No matter what, there is no "endorsement" of Douglas in this episode anyway. It's just a funny and quirky guy placed into a situation that is (eventually) uncomfortable for him. It's comedy gold. It would be akin to a skit placing an adamant flat Earther on a rocket ship...Bill Clinton trying to be faithful to Hillary after the Monica Lewinsky scandal yet waking up from a traffic accident inside a sorority house....or seeing Adolf Hitler inadvertently having a good time and flirting with women at what turns out to be a Bar Mitzvah.
"We keep going back to Douglas being the butt of the joke because it's his own bigotry that caused his heartache. "
So you are a bigot if you don't want to fuck men now!!!!
It's a complicated episode for me, and my own reaction to it has changed and evolved, as we all ought to have evolved as people. I believe that episode came out in 2008, that's fifteen years ago. I'm a very different person now, than I was then, and I absolutely accept that fact that shows which were funny in the past, are problematic now.
For me the B-story sort of half holds up? It into some stereotypes that can be harmful. On the other hand, the trans woman isn't the target of the joke. The transphobic man is. In fact, in every episode, Douglas Reynholm and his shitty, backwards, hyper-entitled sexuality is portrayed as wrong.
I think if April had kicked the shit out of him, I would have loved the storyline, but it felt wrong to me that she lost, and I mean that in a narrative sense. He's portrayed as the person deserving of an ass kicking.
In the end, I think it's a good episode to watch, and discuss. I think all problematic and difficult art, especially pop art from a decade or more past, is worth viewing, and discussing.
I don't defend it, but I don't attack it either. It is what it is, and that discussion shouldn't be about attack or defense. It should be about understanding.
It ain’t problematic, just funny. There’s no issue whatsoever, it’s all a joke.
evolved? one thing for sure that you american is surely devolved.
based on your logic tho, so its fine making jokes about straight people, but its a sin to make a joke about trans?
I think this episode is a real shame, because the main story of Jen, Roy and Moss is one of the best, but it has the other story, and is therefore banned on All4 in the UK.
Good summary at the end. In Linehan's mind: being trans is the joke. That's a problem.
This one has aged really really badly to the point I can't help but cringe everytime I remember it. Its annoying because like you say the Moss, Roy and Jen stuff is really good this episode.
I found the Douglas-April storyline very funny in 2008 & still do.
@@andrewjones575 Good for you, but I can't enjoy jokes when the punchline is 'haha trans peoppe are gross/weird'. This is made even worse when the creator would become an ardent transphobe to the point he glady ruined his own career to ensure a minority group are refused basic rights.
If you can turn your consciouss off an enjoy it still; all power to you, but it doesnt make it an intelligent or morally justifiable position.
@@patrickevans2041 April isn't portrayed as weird.
Nice take on the episode. I love that you're so non-confrontational about these issues; I really feel that this sort of attitude helps to bridge the gap between people with different opinions 😄
Completely agree with your commentary on this one, and appreciate that you don't just gloss over the problematic parts and actually spend time talking about why they're problematic (many reactors wouldn't bother), the discussion and disection after the reaction itself is the main reason I started watching your channel back in the early days of the LOST reactions
Probably because many reactors don't find them problematic. And even if said creators would explain their perceived problem to this episode and which parts we should and shouldn't laugh at and for how long, people would find a way to watch them, which would probably result in the Streisand effect and give episodes like these more popularity.
When I was growing up and parents were forbidding schoolchildren from watching South Park, this was a SURE FIRE stamp of approval from the moral authority that that shit was funny af and resulted in entire classes of 12-year olds watching that stuff by the school-load, no matter the "risk".
What an interesting reaction Neil , firstly the internet in a box was pure genius , I don't know what it is either there are probably a lot of people who use this technology without a thought .
I can understand your feelings about the trans storyline to an extent . It does split the episode today in a way that it wouldn't have when it was made . Maybe that shows that my perceptions have changed . I don't agree with much of today's cancel culture , but I am pleased that there is more respect and acceptance as previously marginalised people as human beings in today's society .
In the words of Graham Norton. There is no cancel culture. It’s just accountability.
Canada is to work for the it crowd
I like the episode, I can totally see why people wouldn't like it but I found it too rediculous not to laugh, over here in England we laugh at everything, including ourselves