3D Printed Mechanical Parts - Resin VS. FDM (EXPERIMENT)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ม.ค. 2022
- Creality NEW water washable resin: www.creality3dofficial.com/pr...
In this video, I am going to print and build mechanical parts with SLA and FDM printers. I am printing three really different things: bearings, worm gears, chains. There are pros and cons with bought of these technologies but will resin printers that are known to be great for printing small and detailed models can also be useful in a project that needs a lot of mechanical and practical models? This is what I am going to investigate in this video.
775 DC motor: ali.ski/CJuTrg
Battery: www.banggood.com/custlink/mm3...
Bearings video: • 3D Printed Bearings - ...
Worm Gears video: • 3D Printed WORM GEAR -...
Chain video: • 3D Printed CHAIN - PLA...
Cylindrical roller bearing (Christoph Laimer) :
.stl: www.thingiverse.com/thing:237...
Video: • Design a parametric, 3...
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At 2:59-3:20, there is footage missing... sorry!
hi
Oh good so i wasnt going blind;)
bro .. is could be a 5 min video ... just avoid reusing shots .. 5 times u loaded the resing .. I was expecting the timelapse of the resin printer , never came ... but it's still nice!
With the worm gear test, based on the way that the teeth wore it looks like there was too much engagement overall, hence the heavy wear on the worm gear - the wheel is being constantly forced into the shaft of the worm gear, leading to a "digging" motion which is destroying the helix thread. Worm gears should really only ever see high wear under high load, if you've got high wear with no load, then there is a clearance problem.
For your resin printers, I highly recommend removable magnetic build plates. Slightly flexing the removed metal plate makes removing parts super easy with your scraper, they'll almost want to fall off. Plus you don't need to remove the whole head, making calibration need to be done less often
Try a resin like Elegoo ABS-like resin instead of standard resin. I have printed parts for a string trimmer with it and they have withstood a lot of abuse spinning against concrete (with the expected wear).
You could apply the same principal to filament parts though, use a better/more suitable material
@@lio1234234 Agreed - I was suggestibg a followup video. For reference, the version of the parts I made with standard resin exploded into shrapnel the second they spun up. Standard resin is just not meant for mechanical use (although you can get away with it as LP shows here). PLA on the other hand has decent structural properties in all forms.
@@lio1234234 Also, upgrading to ABS-like is simply a matter of pouring out a different bottle. Upgrading material on FDM often involves a different all-metal hot end, a full enclosure, and lots of anti-lifting tricks to keep things from warping.
So my suggestion comes as one that is a no brainer for viewers.
@@DD-DD-DD PETG doesn't need upgrades and is much better mechanically than PLA, thanks to a little bit more flexibility, much lower surface friction, and much higher heat deflection temperature, so surface heat from friction affects it an order of magnitude less.
@@SianaGearz Agree, mechanically it's an upgrade from PLA. Surface hardness is not great, it requires a heated bed and release agent, it absorbs water like crazy, and it's really tough to glue parts together without a lot of chemical prep.
Having said that, I think a rematch between PETG and an ABS-like resin would be great fun to watch!
Thank you so much, I'm in the process of buying my first 3D printer and the info and demonstrations were exactly what I was looking for. Great video!
This was fantastic. Thank you for all the careful work you put into this!
Commentary on testing fairness:
For the sprocket & chain comparison, you need to have a longer axle, and a second bearing at the other end to stabilize the axle. Without this modification, the resin parts encounter more shocks and impacts from the test than the FDM parts do, as a result of the lack of stability the axle had at that distance from the driving motor.
The other tests seemed fair, this was just a discrepancy I noticed in the testing.
I'd like to add a note.
On the first test where the resin printed parts failed, I am not saying this was the reason, but, you printed the rollers with a different printer, could it be related with the reason they had more friction? Is the layer size the same? Is the black resin exactly the same? I would have a go with same print conditions just to make sure..
I am saying this because on hind sight, I would say the resin parts held quite well on the rest of the tests, while on this they failed hard.
Very interesting, although I have one criticism. During the worm gear test, you brought in PETG as an example of a better performing plastic, but failed to mention or include that there are other types of resin that could potentially preform better. This just makes it sounds a bit biased towards FDM.
The reality is that is not other resin is only one the thing that change is aditives the streng dosent gonna change too much and fdm are stronger than resin.
@@tigerkingboss9106there are resins that are way stronger than PETG
@@cinemasurge1851and there is Nylon, which is way stronger than anything else
Also some resins, especially water washables can warp a lot after getting printed
Very cool job buddy thank you for sharing and putting the work into these comparisons. Happy new year 🎊🎈🎆
You are doing the real testing dude thank you for that
Keep it up man! Love the videos!
i have to say the first test really surprised me, ive never had my resin prints do that
i have no experience with FDM but i assumed that they melted a lot easier than resin
very, very interesting video, just a thought, I think you should have increased a bit the temperature of PLA nozzle and use more perimeters, especially in the first tests. I found that the voron project settings suggestions gave me the best and strongest prints ever. I also flag in cura the "alternate extra wall" which makes very strong prints with lower infill.
Walls do add more strength than infill, we know this from tests from CNC kitchen. There's tons of different settings for optimising the strength of a part.
Another point, I agree with the PLA needing a higher temperature. Apart from printing something that's purely aesthetic and with no function, 215 degrees C is the standard, not 200. With 200 you get quite poor layer adhesion even if it does look slightly better on some printers
He should have used ABS. Mechanical parts should be printed in ABS with a FDM printer. PLA is for good looking or parts how don’t get hot.
Thanks so much for this one!! Exactly what I needed!!?😊 Did you ever think of combining the materials? Using PLA and resin parts in the same model?
I think lubrication on resin prints probably helps more than lubrication on fdm prints just because of the different material properties. Resin tends to stick to itself and because its smoother there is more surface area touching at once so it gets even more friction without lubrication than fdm. The dry test is an unfair test because it hurts the resin prints more than the fdm prints.
I think it'd be to do with surface roughness, although there's roughness between the layers themselves in FDM, the surface roughness of each layer (the part that comes in contact) is smoother than that from resin printers. It could also be due to the material itself as well as you have mentioned
@@lio1234234 The rougher the surface the less material is in contact with each other. The resin bearing being smoother than the FDM bearing means there are more square inches in contact in the written print then there are for the FDM print. Was the point I was making about there being more friction.
@@Xploit66 That's not really true you are referring to the coefficient of friction which is independent from surface finish. Generally the rougher the surface the higher the coefficient of friction.
@@shorb2289 Metal bearings wear out without lubrication too.
Awesome they seem like excellent if lubricant and in colder Temps it's perfect ..so your experiments are helpful 😊
I now have more to think about .Thank you :)
I haven't had a ton of luck with mechanical parts in my resin printer. That being said the detail you can get out of a resin printer is unmatched. I mostly print miniatures so for my purposes the choice was very clear.
Depending on the application, the resin bearings might be a better suit thanks to their tighter tolerances.
Thanks for the great content. I wish you would have used lubrication, otherwise your results aren't very relevant to my typical applications. A video with the same parts presented here, but with several lubricants tested, would be valuable. Silicon oil, water immersion, graphite powder, PTFE dry film would be most interesting to me.
Also try feeding random twigs and rocks/dirt in. A printed idler design would be cool to see too, use spare print bed spring maybe?
I am surprised the water washable resin was that good, I was expecting those results from a mixed resin combo. excelent video!
Awesome video. Would love to see similar testing comparisons of different resins to see which perform better for mechanics parts.
Thanks for this video. I was asking myself exactly the same question to make mechanical parts. :-)
Great video! Can't wait to watch more on your channel. Subscribed!
Great video , keep up the good work.
How can be faster the reisin one when I had one and put them on drag test? I preffer PLA. It's all up to how I do the settings. BTW, replace your nozzle with a staniless steel one.
I printed the same bearing but for some reason I can't get it to run smoothly even after having a motor turn it slowly for half an hour, although it seems a little better under load. Now and then a roller always gets stuck for a moment, causing a short interruption in rotation.
I actually think you would get better results, by using FDM for one part, and resin for the other. Dissimilar materials will spall less, than using the same material on sliding surfaces, especially, if no oil is used. Try pairing a resin worm gear with a FDM spur gear. For bearings, I would try both resin rollers in FDM races, and then try FDM rollers in resin races. (both dry, and with oil) The harder material will "polish" the softer material, rather than spalling both pieces.
Excellent video!!!! Thank you.
Kind of a bad test, Gears have specific distances for meshing with each other, adding contact pressure into each other is bad in all applications. as for bearings, The design is heavily flawed because of the lack of a cage, the friction between the roller elements contacting each other in such a tight space is contributing that and is basically useless in highspeed applications.
Thank you for this video! I've been spinning my head around whether or not to buy a resin printer to print more precise mechanical parts, You've saved me some money; I won't hehe
On the worm gear topic: not to mention FDM can print polyamide
Good stuff, ty.
maybe if you used dry lubricant/grease idk if there are any silicone based noncorrosive dry lube for plastic though
Hello Sir, what is that little camera you are recording with? what is the model?
Can you upload the chain STLs? Or link please. Great stuff!
Your support comes off erg cleanly, is there a special way you calibrate this settings?
For things like that frame where you had to reattach the top because it snapped on layer height, you could deform the model to fold it flat, and heatgun the print to fold it up. Some of the best things I've made use this technique, hope it's helpful! :)
Also, thank you for this video!!! I only have an FDM printer, but I was planning to do gears potentially just like these soon, and realise I have a lot of thinking to do!! :P
I have not seen any 3D printed bearings before this. Most 3D prints that require bearings I normally see people just buy bearings. But it was a cool test.
With the worm gears, I wonder if the result would have been more usable as far as a metric if there wasn't so much play in the gear's movement
Total newbie question, but is there no real material option for resin printing like there’s for fdm?
missing footage at 2:58, I'm assuming...
Could you use BB's as rollers for the wheel bearing?
One thing I would point out is that resin printers are more likely to be consistent. There have been a lot of studies into the factors of FDM that impact strength of the final part and wear characteristics. While I imagine some of these also impact resin printers - such as humidity or oxygen in the atmosphere, the resin printer will have significantly greater consistency of results.
Subbed, you definitely deserve it ! 😀
If you spin even a hardened steel bearing without lubrication, it is going to fail.
I think placing a lubricated bearing under a load would be a more suitable test.
However, I agree that the FDM parts are more durable for this type of application. Well done.
It would help if your GEARS were secure. Not having them tight allows for movement from side to side, which will destroy the best of worm gears.
Nice Video, but a little word of caution regarding the gloves: it looks like you are wearing the typical vinyl kitchen gloves. Those will give very limited protection against small molecules like solvents and probably unreacted monomers in the resin as well. If you want to have kids and dont want cancer i would strongly advise to use nitrile gloves rated for lab use!!
Any glove protects only for a given amount of time as molecules diffuse through the polymer gaps of the glove but the nitrile ones at least should buy you a few minutes.
Do not underetimate those resins! I am a chemist and this stuff is probably one of the nastiest chemicals we have in our lab!
Butyl gloves are most protective with 3D printing resin.
Can you suggest a type of UV resin to 3D print a GoPro mount? Thanks!
Siraya Tech Blu (the translucent blue one).
fantastic job haha
Why not a tenacious + ABS like mix ? How was the resin cured, under water ? Was it heated up to make it more durable ? What kind of layer height was used for the FDM print ? A finer layer height should result in better gears. Too many other factors but even the main ones are not clarified enough.
Excellent video, especially since I'm interested in mechanical parts that can withstand force/torque !
stick to steel or better stuff like titanium ... at least as long there has been no "wonder" plastic invented that is n t warping and melting from 200C upwards... and lets not start with stiffness of plastics ... especially torque loaded parts like gears gotta need good stiffness ... imagine a Kardanwelle made of plastic (idk what the engl. word for kardanwelle is , if you do google picture search you should see what i mean) their translator spits out bullshit into engl.
@@solunasunrise you probably own or have owned dozens or hundreds of mechanisms made from Nylon and Delrin. Any quartz clock, the mechanism inside a tape player or optical disk drive, most servo motors, some kitchen devices, and so many other things. Plastic can have a very low surface friction and the flexibility reduces the running noise. Not every mechanism needs to withstand high temperatures in excess of 80°C or a lot of external force, in fact outside automotive and industrial, barely any do. When plastic mechanisms do fail, provided they're adequately designed, it's usually due to either plastic properties changing over decades such as Nylon losing hydration or due to a manufacturing defect. If you have the possibility to scale up, you can increase forces accordingly. Even a garage door has a plastic gear in it, as a safety measure to have something break before it breaks your bones.
Ihr habt im Weltkrieg ihre ganzen Wissenschaftler getötet oder vertrieben, zusammen mit all denjenigen, die in eure ach so homogene Gesellschaft nicht passten, das habt ihr nun davon, euere Ingenieurwesen und Wissenschaft sind im Eimer. Jedes Kommentar aus deutschsprachigem Raum ist reines Krebs. Da passt Gatekeeping ganz gut dazu, ja.
Also: prop shaft.
@@SianaGearz ich hab niemanden verjagt !!! .. verstehe garnicht was das mit meiner frage zu tun haben soll ...wollte jetz jedenfalls keine politische dumfug standpauke mir hier durchlesen !
@@solunasunrise anything mechanical has a weak spot/stress area, regardless of what it's made out of. a weaker gear made out of plastic that fails first is cheaper and easier to replace than a strong part like a motor or serve that burns out instead...
What type of plastic is formed with that resin? Is it PLA or a comparable plastic? Curious if the differences are from chemical property difference or if it’s because of the different surface/processing that causes these differences.
Awesome video comparison though, loved to see these tested on mechanical parts!
Cheers
All SLA resins are acrylic thermoset polymers. Which specifically, tends to be a trade secret. They have nothing in common with FDM thermoplastics. Well closest thing that comes to mind is PMMA is FDM printable, but is quite a menace and barely usable, that's an acrylic thermoplastic.
Actually at least one of the Chinese water washable resins seems to be an Epoxy Methacrylate.
The biggest fundamental difference between FDM polymers and resins is that thermoplastics are linearly linked, so they form a chain that you can thermally unfurl and untwist the molecules from each other and put into a new shape. Thermoset polymers are crosslinked, so they are locked together permanently until they are destroyed somehow, like you have linear chains but you also have connections growing in between the chains.
@@SianaGearz thank you!
I figured out, that ABS-like resin is much less sticky than standard resin. It works fine for me when building air powered mechanical engines (similar to two-stroke engines).
I am not an expert on gears, but for some reason, I seem to remember that worm gesrs are supposed to have a curved contour to allow them to interface more thoroughly with the driven gear. Is that right? Or, maybe it was just one of many possible techniques.
Cool video!
You are correct. Ideally the drive worm is contoured to match the driven gear, and vice versa. Makes for much more contact surface, so a lot more strength. I also observed in these tests that the gear mesh was far from perfect which didn't help at all. I don't thihk either of those gearsets should have destroyed themselves so quickly.
try this with Igus iglidur self lubricant fillament... would be interesting to see if it would work under real live situations...
You need to do this again with sayria tech touch clear design for solid cures and stronger comparisons of the technologies true potential. Us mechanical guys spend too much tim sanding at times at 20% decrease in strength is acceptable
How about use the flexible plate! I use it all the time
you should put them together and see how long it will last cause the fdm had its pros and cons the resin printer had its pros and cons to, so something that needs heat wear and other stresses on them would be a cool video
There are many different types of resin. You should have used high temperature resistant resin such as Siraya Tech Sculpt which won't melt and stick.
Then he should also have used temperature and wear resistens filament
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is great! Try FDM with one gear and resin for the other :)
Hey there. Could you repeat this experiment and the planetary gears but first electroplating the prints? Thanks.
Palju see resin tiguülekanne kannataks tööd koormuse all, kui sa midagi tõstad vms ?
1:00 I can guess right now that the FDM will seem weak due to under-extrusion.
18:30 Or, not.
Which is better? It depends on the detail required.
you should also try a tough resin , that would be interesting to see , great video eighter way
They sell nylon stand-offs in standard sizes. They make ideal rollers.
You demonstrated why they use brass or other metals for worm gears.
I've personally never seen a plastic worm gear. Maybe that's why?
Mhm you can also cut a bunch of rollers from PTFE bowden tubing with a knife.
@@SianaGearz those tubes are soft and will collapse under load.
thanks
Great video! I want to see you build a flying toy. A toy powered by a gearbox to make it spin faster. When you stop the spinning the top part which is a propeller with a circle around it detaches and fly away. If you want more info I can email you my model. I want to see you make it fly as high as you can. Good luck!
What is the song called in your vid it is ultra relaxing
Why not test oil soluble/traditional resin?
You can also print gears in plastic, then aluminum cast it through lost core (wax) casting technique.
For those jobs that absolutely positively must be made of metals, 3D FDM printer is a must have.
Resin printing is too expensive and too messy for my liking.
Very flad you uncovered the mystery. I thought resin was way better than fdm. But as I understand, it is better for speed and detail. What about price?
you need roller spacer for those baring to work properly.
Hi can you print a snowblower?
the testing is good and all, but nylon or cf is considerably more mecanicly capable than pla
I disagree with you about ABS.
ABS was yesterday's news. PETG is replacing it left right and center.
@@piconano totally agree, PETG or ASA. I'd say ASA has more similar properties to ABS than PETG had, but both are much better materials for 3D printing
Nylon is great but warping is a real problem without a proper heated chamber, there are some excellent carbon filled nylons that can be used instead though
ABS has garbage properties in mechanisms because it tends to separate out butadiene flake at the surface, the surface isn't abrasion resistant at all! It's the one big weakness of the material.
what 3d printers would be good to get if i wanted to provide a service to construction companies and a service to the government fulfilling contract services
and what sort of items could i provide with what 3d printer
i have a chance to create and start a company with the support of the government
On plastics the big problem is the heat. point. its to hot plastics melt because of the friction. let the wormgear work in an oiled housing...
In the end, however, it turns out that all of this is just a gimmick
if you want to operate really heavy things with gears or bearings, there is no avoiding metal
why not use high strength and temperature resistant resins instead of water washable for machine parts?
I'd be interested to see the same tests again but with some better quality resin used. if you're printing engineering parts then it'd make sense to use something like 'Siryatech Build' that's designed for printing working parts.
I think a more appropriate material choices would have been nylon and siraya tech blu. That resin will be way too brittle. Maybe a blend of blue and sculpt.
honestly dont know why you had such trouble with fdm worm gears. Ive printed beautifully perfect worm gears near quality of the resin ones you printed.. I still have them if anyone would like to see. I used it for my z rod on my ender for a while. Was a pretty neat mod ;)
You should update the Halot One's firmware
I would have been more interested to see the chain test with a fan on the end of each gear, so there was a load on the links.
is there such thing that makes transparent 3D prints ?... for example for model cars front and back light inlays .... or their windows
Optically clear prints are impossible with FDM, it always locks some air between the beads of molten plastic. Thomas Sanladerer tried though and he got remarkably close to optically clear with PETG and a lot of fine tuning.
With MSLA resin printers, it's possible and clear colourless resin exists. To get optical clarity, it's an extra step in the process, which makes it 4 step. Print, wash, post-cure, at which point the volume of material is optical quality but the surface is not, and then you have to clear lacquer the print.
These prints have a strong propensity to yellow due to light and not ideal curing over as little as 4 months. If you use UV protective lacquer, you can likely prevent that.
You can have a company in China both print and lacquer such prints, I have seen someone get a print for $17 from them which was much larger and more complex than you'd do for a model car, and it was gorgeous. I'm not sure I want to advertise any particular business here though.
@@SianaGearz oay and that Thomas Sanladerer is a youtuber ?
@@solunasunrise yep. One of the first serious 3D printing tubers from all the way back to 2014.
@@SianaGearz okay... so i could make tiny carlights but nothing as clear as windshield ... do they sell filament or resin for that ? i guess more likeley resin ?
@@solunasunrise I think for both uses, you'll want resin printing. And you'll probably need to sand or use a very particular clear spray for it to work reasonably well for the windshield. Maybe antialiasing tuning can help as well. One problem that comes to mind is that the backlight setup in the current crop of hobbyist available SLA machines is kind of absolutely atrocious and doesn't really allow for good consistent calibration that would hold throughout the area of a larger print.
The problem with FDM that even after tuning, while the bulk of the material was transparent, the surface quality was severely compromised. There's a smoothable clear FDM filament, Polymaker PolySmooth, but it doesn't really become clear with fine layers or multi-wall structures, due to air inclusions.
The prints that i've seen out of the Chinese rapid prototyping company look absolutely spectacular and flat surfaces actually come out near perfectly flat, and gentle curves come out perfect as well, it looks like it would absolutely work as a model car windshield or any such. But i have not seen anyone in the hobby community replicate quite this kind of result, so i unfortunately don't have materials that i can recommend.
Look at Uncle Jessy's vid on clear resin printing to see what sort of results people achieve with hobbyist available materials and means. The large rapid prototyping company must be using not just a clear resin, but a well-chosen curing light (likely well above 400nm), maybe they use a true laser SLA printer rather than an mSLA one, and likely automotive high-solids UV protective clear coat, which they can apply with industrial equipment and quality to thousands of pieces per run. I do suspect Uncle Jessy stopped half way to achieving a decent result, and that with more experimentation and community effort, it can be done at home as well, but there just isn't a clear recipe at the moment.
Something Formlabs shows on their site is applying clear resin on top of the print to smooth it out, and while they have shown it acquiring true optical properties, there was also a substantial yellowing from post cure. The low-shrinkage self-levelling from surface tension seems to be crucial. I wonder if clear epoxy can be applied alternatively, maybe SmoothOn XTC 3D, or a 2-component clear lacquer since they have low shrinkage.
What is the cost to print the chain in resin?
Good point, cost is a whole factor that is ignored In this video. But an important factor in any project.
@@L1mJahey he's not testing cost, he's purely testing mechanical strength/endurance
@@ryanc.6613 Your right, it's an experiment not a review, but out of curiosity it would be nice to know. And, honestly, the answer is the same whenever I see these vs vids, it just depends on the application which is better, they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
you should test running these gears at lower speeds, but longer times. i.e. put it on a motor for a week and check it every day. there is an excellent channel called 'project farm' that has excellent testing methods for short and long term results. you're doing good, but maybe missing some use cases. think of 3d printed gears for extruders. and other cases where it's not spinning at drilling speeds.
It seems the FDM was created at 200-230 celsius. The SLA was at room temp. A heat test seems like the FDM would be a winner. Precision many be a problem for FDM though
how about a 3D printed hydroelectric generator
holding by hand introduces many variables... such as overheating due to angles and pressure of holding.. this is not a valid test if you ask me..
we want 3d printed fasteners or %100 3d printed designs
i was so sure ya are from finland but was wrong but really near :D Ya english sounds so much finnish english :D Great video :)
The basic resin is not for these purposes. I think that pla can be compared with some rigid or tough resins, abs like resin but not with the basic series resin!
Should have used high temp resins for this aplication that can whitstand 280degrees C +
with the bearing test i was expecting the PLA bearing to start to melt from the friction tbh
Depending on the design, a multi-start worm gear thread can print easier with FDM.
The contact between the worm and gear on a single start thread and straight tooth gear are very poor. I personally haven't tried to print worm gears for motorized mechanical designs. However, I have used them for setting precise machine adjustments, like setting a depth stop for a drill press jig. They work excellent for this kind of mechanism.
If you are going to do a test like this, please build your test rig a little better. Your broken worm screw shaft support bearing mount's crack and later loss of the bearing were a bit disappointing to see. The lack of shaft support seems to invalidate your results.
To any SLA printer reps:
In this customer's opinion, there is only 1 SLA printer on the market: the Prusa SL1. Open Source or it doesn't exist. If it is not fully open source, you're only renting me the hardware. I don't rent tools.
-Jake
Not an "SLA printer rep", but can you give us MSLA printer consumers some examples of the SL1 software and hardware modifications/improvements you've needed to do with your Prusa SL1 to make it function properly?
Can you tell us MSLA printer consumers how a Prusa SL1 can be modified to have a 288 x 163 x 350mm print volume because it's open source, for when we need to print very large parts?
Thanks.
what if you make a sand or chalk mould of a 3D printed piece, then pour aluminium, you will have durable pieces much faster than just machining
I think it's a very interesting video, but without a load, the pieces will perform very differently
Your test and ran better after it was broke and glued upset you had the gears better matched.. all the damage came at the beginning it look like
17:41 / 17:46 I HAD HA (HORSE SOUND) I HAD DIFFICULTIES TO MEASURE THIS (oih putsi) I HAD DIFFICULTIES TO MEASURE THIS BUT ITS AROUND 3000 RPMS WHICH MEANS....
loved it!
Actually. I want to know this information. I want to build gears
La chaîne est très intéressante, a tester en nylon