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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2023
- New Harley motorcycles are not much better than the last generation of Harley motorcycles. The Twin Cam powered bikes do require a little a encouragement but the Twin Cam Harley-Davidsons can make just as much power as most Milwaukee 8 powered machines. Instead of buying a new Harley motorcycle you can save a lot of money by buying a Twin Cam model. Now just a Twin Cam model isn't going to cut it, to run with the new M8's we need a Twin Cam 96, 103 or 110 engine to start with. The Twin Cam 96 or 103 simply for the ease of bolt parts application to aid with keeping the costs down. Converting a Twin Cam to 110 is really the sweet spot for making for making reliable all day long term power!
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Are the new motorcycles worth the money or would you rather take the time to build a motor for an older model Harley?
i would love a completely restored EVO. I currently have a Twincam 88 with a stage 2, and love it. I think the older harleys are just way more what I expect a harley to be, sound awesome, vibrate awesome, and look way better than anything new with all the tech and plastic. I would like to have a new harley, but I wouldn't give up my old twincam to get one.
No, if you are dead set on a Harley then get second hand. In the UK, the market has dropped to around equal what you pay in the states. I have met my share of riders and none of them have bought one new
The way the motor company is going, I'll have to buy used and build it up. Probably get a 107 Road King, do a stage 3. 107 to 119, 11 to 1 compression, torque cam, the works. In the end I didn't spend as much but it's practically new.
I don't have money for a new one so im looking at older bikes by default. I would love to see you do a video on which years of the EVO and TC were the "best" years to buy. I have seen snippets of this in other videos and maybe you already made this video and I missed it? Would be cool to know like hey stay away from early 90s evos because the cases suck or stay away from X year TC because Y sucks.
@@ChiefHobie agreed...we have an 04 Low Rider and an 05 1200C Sporty, both carbed. They're our 1st bikes and looking forward to our love affair.
♥️👍💪
Back in 2020. I picked up a cream puff 04 Road King with 16k on the clock for $6k from an old man that couldn’t ride it anymore. I’ve ridden that bike all over the country since. Aside from tires, brakes, and a blinker bracket nut that vibrated loose. It’s been good to me.
04 Road King Stage 1 two tone blue 8000 miles 8600 in 2017,I know what you mean.
@@Goldencountry63 I picked up a 2010 Ultra limited 103 with black ice pearl paint for 11k last year. Older gentleman could not ride any more. Only had 4155 miles on it! I put it in the shop last week to get woods 222 cams, true dual headers, and dyno-tune. Cannot wait to get It back!
I just had to replace my rear blinker nut on my '01 road glide
I bought the same Bike with the same miles the same year. What are the odds 😂. But a lady blew a stop sign last June and totalled it. My wife is permanently injured. But she insisted on getting another Bike. So I bought her a nice Ultra 🤙✝️✌️
check your cam tensioners.every 10 k they go the motor goes
Love my 88. 62K miles. Keeps me smiling.
You guys always have a fascination with making it more powerful I value reliability overpower any day. All of my vintage motorcycles have very low amounts of horsepower but they all go fast enough for me. Evos are built for reliability not for power. My 1999 Sportster 883 has 400,000 miles on her on original engine run cool as a cucumber in Florida in the summertime to up in August oil temperature is 200°. You can't get better than that. The Japanese pushed the horsepower limits of all of their air-cooled motorcycles until their Pistons were melting. They went to liquid cooling but they could train you with your horsepower race so even a liquid-cooled motorcycle still was hot as Hades 2 ride on. I don't need ridiculous amounts of horsepower and ridiculous amounts of electronic gadgets just waiting to fail. A stock 80 cubic inch Evo with 65 horsepower will carry two people and luggage and run 90 miles an hour all day without cooking it's Riders to death. Evos forever forever Evo's
Panheads forever forever panheads
All the Japanese motor cycles went to water cooled bikes because of smog laws to get them into the United States…
Two basic philosophy's, the riders, the Tweaker's. How often does average Joe get to really push their machine...dumping all the hard earned on go fast goodies has a questionable time/value merit...I know people that regretted tweaking because they were tied to a result they didn't like, screaming balls merrygoround
@@ltsgarage7898 people would go out touring with Honda 750 motorcycles equipped with Vetter touring gear 2 up loaded down with luggage. And they be riding them all day and they would overheat. It would also eat change and sprocket. Honda look at the problem solve the overheating problem with water cooling the way Suzuki did with the water buffalo 750 2-stroke. With the opposed four-cylinder engine a shaft drive was natural to replace the chain and sprockets. They continue their quest for more and more horsepower especially on the racer bikes. Those as well as the regular touring bikes even with liquid cooling still created a lot of uncomfortable engine heat. Bikes like the Yamaha 1300 four-cylinder touring bikes are known for cooking their Riders to death as bad as a twin cam or a Milwaukee 8. Of course the Yamaha is liquid-cooled but that doesn't make it any cooler to ride the bike. You read articles and Rider magazine and they will talk about certain motorcycles being hotter than other motorcycles. Outside of my little BSA 250 singles, all of my Triumph and Bs a 500 and 650 twins are capable of going 100 to 110 miles an hour. I prefer the single- carburetor Persians as they are easier to work on and I don't mind giving up the little bit of horsepower at the top and that they provide I'd rather have Lowdown tractability. I went riding with one guy who had an Altima 131 and another one who had an S&S 124 I think I don't remember for sure they roared out of the parking lot leaving me on my Daytona 500 Triumph far behind them but I waved to them as I passed by them with your hands on the side of the highway patrol car as they were getting their $400 tickets for speeding. The officer said he was being nice and not right thing them a ticket for racing. $400 buys a lot of Tires and Batteries and stuff. British bikes are cool and Triumph are the coolest
What years of the EVO are the best to buy for reliability? (dyna and softail models)
I never thought I’d be thankful for getting old, but it’s saving me a lot of money. Gone is that overwhelming desire to hot rod every internal combustion engine that I come across. My ‘06 FXDWGI 88 TC is fast enough for me…..for now. I’ll just spend my money on gas and riding rather than parts and modification for a while longer. Still enjoy your comments GixxerFoo, keep them coming.
I'm still riding the '72 FLHP I bought for 2500 bucks in 1980, and the 97 WideGlide I bought 5yrs ago for 3 grand.
Both of them box stock, and no major mechanical problems.
If it ain't broke, keep fixin it til it is. 👍
Love my TC88,well balanced motor on my Heritage Softail Classic’03,100 year anniversary edition
It's not 'powerful' by any means, but I actually went with a '98 FXDL for reliability. I just absolutely love the Evo.
Picked it up from an elder gentleman that treated it as a garage queen, with only 2400 miles. I do want to replace the oil pump for future proofing.
What I learned while graduating from MMI Late Model HD is that the Motor Co learns ways to reduce prices on manufacturing and increases the prices on customers.
It was actually a huge bummer.
But at the end of the day, they are a corporation that IS for profit - which has been in decline over the last few years.
Not a single instructor I had supports the idea of purchasing a brand new bike, which is absolutely insane and speaks volumes.
what dyna/softail model years do you think are most reliable to be looking for?
@@87cigs
Well that's pretty subjective, but I'd prefer anything '05 and Older for a Dyna.
I personally only buy, ride and flip Super Glides and Low Riders. Best two REAL Dyna models.
I absolutely despise any and every Softail model, *Especially the Deuce and the Breakout*!!
Like I said, it's VERY subjective though and many will disagree with me
I have had good experiences servicing 96" and 103" Twin Cams - The factory did a pretty decent job and didn't cut too many corners.
But like I said, these are my opinions and not facts in any way shape or form - and they can be EXTREMELY wrong to other folks
@@BraveClam The 01-02 Dynas are great bikes, with the 03-05 models being a close second to me. I have always loved the 88ci. I know it has its detractors, but I know more riders in the Outlaw chapters that have run 88s with SS cams than any other model out there. They run forever. I am not part of their club but I agree with that set up. I have an 03 Super Glide with SS510 cam and camchest set up. The bike is very basic, but does everything a bike is supposed to for me. Like you said, it is all subjective, but I did hate my 04 Fat Boy. I think the Softail Family is very overrated.
Reliability is 100% more important than power.
I just took delivery of a fully loaded 2023 Road Glide Special. When you start adding up the Harley options for RDRS, paint, surcharges, increases in freight, delivery, set up, processing fees, taxes, “market adjustment”extended warranty and more you are much closer to $40k. It’s unbelievable how you get there. I was willing to pay for the 2023 but the smart way to do this is to find a good used bike and fit it to your needs. You’re going to change everything anyway.
I am having a hard time justifying $30,000 for a motorcycle. I have an '09 Ultra Classic that I absolutely love. After watching your videos, I feel much better keeping my twin cam and building off that platform.
Agreed. I picked up a low mileage ‘13 street glide last year and I’ll keep it for a long time. Does everything I need it to do.
Me too! I had a S&S big bore kit installed in my 09.
My Favorite no nonsense channel for Harley's on the youtube. Keep up the great work, it is appreciated
I love my 2021 Road Glide Standard I bought New. Just negotiated a Great price. 🏍💨🏍💨
I got a stock 2007 Heritage . I am happy with the power of the 96” in it. It cruises down the road at 70 to 75 all day long. It is a quiet and smooth running bike. I plan on keeping it stock except a couple cosmetic changes.
On my 2016RGS I used Fuelings 543 kit, and love it.
It’s all about compromise.My first Harley was a 1983 FLHS.It was one of the first belt drives,but lacked ability to get out of it’s own way.My next Harley was a 2002 V-rod.100K trouble free miles,but didn’t have that torque and feel of a big twin.Now I have a 2001 FLTRSE.With many parts,upgrades and money,it is a fine ride.So the moral of the story is”you can get what you want, but it ain’t gonna be cheap!”
Just found out Black Magic HD closed in Williston, ND. Good people. Now if I want to visit an HD dealer I need to ride 200 miles one way. Glad I learned how to wrench on mine...
Maybe I'm old but dependability is the primary concern when buying a used motorcycle.
Because my bike had been a rich man’s toy; only 5800 on a 2004 Twin Cam 88 I decided to stay stock bore. It only has 7500 on it now as I missed out last year waiting for parts. So I’m now running a Fueling 525 Reaper with a full Mikuni HSR45 kit and filter, coupled to a Thunder Heart ignition and Vance and Hines Short Shot exhaust system. Oil is Royal Purple Synthetic 20/50. I think it should come in at 100 horsepower once it’s been Dyno tested; perhaps a little more. The ignition system is very tuneable so I’ll have to wait and see. Weather is still bad over in the U.K. so it’ll be a few more weeks yet before I can start tuning it proper, but the results thus far are very promising. Very snappy on the throttle and the motor smooth with a really low tick over. It was previously an injection FXDI, which took quite a bit of converting because I changed the wiring harness to a carb model type from a a Wide Glide. Anyway looking forward to the road real soon, just thought you might like my take on things. Great vids as ever and best wishes.
My first Harley was a 55 Panhead, best bike i had ever owned, second was a Wide Glide, it was also very nice, i am totally disabled so i bought a new 883 and did have a little work done to it, but dropped it a few times so i gave it away to a dear friend and bought a 2002 Trike with only 600 miles on it, love it, also have a trailer that this year will be the first year i will get to use it, i hauled it home empty and had no problems, i really have no problem with power that is why i have six gears and i never go over 70 mph but i have had it at 100 for several miles, runs so nice but i would love to put different pipes on it, i live in Utah and every time i pull into a drive way if you do not do it at an angle the pipes will drag and the bolt that holds the end of the pipe on has come off before and when im done with it, I do with that as i have done with my 883 , maybe buy a small fishing boat, love Harleys, i have to say that my 55 was the best of them all i bought that when i was 16 years old and had the engine rebuilt and never had a problem with it, i have read many of these in here very interesting and helpful
I bought a 2007 HD street glide with 30,000 for $11,000 about a year ago and she’s got a stock 96ci with 6 speed tranny and I’ve done V&H big radius 2 into 2, open air cleaner, better plugs, 12mm plug wires and a V&H Fuelpak 3 tuner and I couldn’t be any happier with the way she performs!! She moves quick and gets me where I need to go! Yes I’d love a newer style Rushmore but as of now I’m happy with what I’ve got!! I’ll trade her in before I do any motor upgrades.
Your channel is the best for HD. Thank god I found it, I almost bought one.
Old and reliable, contentment is a great reward
My wife likes riding on our 1997 Softail Heritage Springer with the 80 cu in EVO motor over our 2003 CVO Road King with the 103 cu in Twin Cam. You don't buy or ride a Harley for HP, you ride it for the enjoyment. Power is nice, but Mr Officer will catch you every time with all that "grip it and rip it" power at your unskilled left wrist.... If you want power, buy a 1000cc or bigger Super Sport at least its frame can handle all that power, unlike the earlier Twin Cam bike frames! HD Wobble is there.
Here Here! Excellent and practical info as usual. Thanks again brother.
I totally agree with you. In the past few years is nothing more than paint jobs and a touch screen. I have a 2017 street glide special that goes all day and night compared to the new 2023HD’s. The future of Harley Davidson/HD is their Revolution Max platform that’s liquid cooled, no pushrods, no huge primary chain in oil, single hole oil fill and drain. The Revolution Max has ride modes and full LED lighting and all the advantages moving forward instead of a overly hot ass air cooled motor.
My 2019 Honda Goldwing is the bike I ride across state lines because of it Cadillac smooth ride, water cooling, reverse gear and technology off the line with little to no upgrades needed.
Sometimes I wonder what people want from Harley. In the last five years they have released the 107, 114, revolution engines, updated their Softail and touring line-up. Released brand new models - sportster S, pan American, and Nightster. Also, there simply is no comparison between the Softail a and touring bikes pre/post 2018. Very different rides and engines.
I currently have a 2015 Road Glide Special with a 103 twin cam and a tuned Stage 1 set up. This bike is incredibly powerful and fast. I can't imagine why anyone would want increase the horsepower more than this. But that's just my opinion
Your bike has a better cam than my 2012. I recently put cyclorama 570-2 cams in. What a difference. Did the work at 56k now over 63k. Want to do the top end. Maybe this winter
Dude I just got a used 2004 road king with the 95" kit on it. It has a screamin eagle plate and pump with fueling 525 cams. I put a sns stealth filter amd bassani dnt mufflers with power curve headers amd it's got some pretty damn good power for what it is...and it only has 35 thou miles. I paid 6 grand for the bike!
'07 and up gives you the 6 speed tranny too. I'm okay with my '00 Nightrain. I'm old, it's comfortable ...
And it's an icon.
Glad I saw this video. I have a 2015 Rushmore RG with the 110 that I bought new. Since I retired and moved to South Carolina in 2018 I found myself riding a whole lot more and year round. At 52K miles I had the Harley 117 big bore kit installed at Harley and decided to let all the components that came with it installed as I felt they would be mated to run well. I did add the SE cam plate and oil pump and had the heads ported. I also had them use the SE tuner since I was informed that Harley would not stand behind a failure with any other tuner. The bike dynoed out at 118/124 which is pretty respectable in the world of twin cam Harley’s . Since I added a Barnett extra disc clutch pack and a dark horse compensator and the bike pulls really well. It currently has 67K miles on it with no problems. I don’t do burnouts or wheelies since I’m 76 years old now but I do throttle up on the highway to maybe 95-115 mph at times. Here’s the funny. I went and looked at the 2023 RG CVO last week. The price was 55K with 7.2 interest and they offered me 12K for mine! WHAAAT? The point here is everything you talked about in your video is true. Why suffer that expense when mine runs better, stronger and looks just as good as the new ones.
Id like to find a mint evo, hard to find now though
The reason I own a Harley EVO is for the sound n simplicity of the bike. If you want HP save your self the thousands n buy a ninja.
2001 Springer Softail here. Will be doing a 95 inch set of pistons and freshen up the heads! Already screwed with the cam chest and want a reliable bike and some gas mileage. Did a trip in Wyoming and 90 on the highway was not a problem! Trying to keep it stock as possible.
'01 FLSTS here. I adore my Springer with the Big Jug kit. Sounds like a beast with the True Duals.
100% correct
My 2010 Ultra Classic. Engine built to 110ci S&S Big Bore from original 96ci . Ported heads, oversized valves, Woods 777 Cams, AIM Variable Pressure clutch, Vance & Hines VO2 intake, V&H Power Duels, FuelMoto Jackpot megaphones slip-ons, DynoJet Power Vision Tune. New 6-speed transmission
DynoJet recorded 112HP & 128fp Torque.
New or used,a suspension upgrade is worth the money! Before performance upgrades,except pipes maybe, the suspension upgrade will make a huge difference
I just bought a 2022 softail, i changed the pipes, should i upgrade the suspension?
The real question is, would you take a 1969 Dodge Charger or a 2023 Dodge Charger if you had your choice? After riding both, I will keep my rumbly 08 twin cam. It might not have the horsepower, but it has the swag.
Bought a new 103HO twin cam in a 2016 FLSTN. Added oil cool, high flow air intake, Vance & Hines exhaust and Fuelpak 3 tuner. I now have 84 HP and 106 ft. Lbs. of torque. This came after some serious tuning. Dirt solid reliable, sounds great and ridden properly still gets 45 mpg all day long.
Agreed. I can get 6 good low miles Harleys for the price of a new one.
I dropped in the 110 tire shredder kit on my 2011 dyna street bob (bought new) a couple months after it came out in 2017. It dynoed 106hp and 122tq and runs fantastic, as much as I really like the low rider st there's zero reason to trade up a perfectly fine running dyna that's paid for 🤷
Honestly you’d be insane to
Keep the Dyna. Love the Dyna. Dyna or Die 🤙🤘
Just have both🤷🏻♂️
New to this channel as picked up a Harley - can 110% agree.
I was originally looking at the new fat bob and opted to go for a 2017 breakout with 10,000km. Come with a stage 1 and it’s plenty of power and imo, sounds way better.
Don’t regret it at all, well documented engine and looking at cams in the next few months.
I have a 103 with a cam and big bore kit on my 2011 sg. Plenty of power. I can keep up with anyone.
That reminds me I still have an air horn I need to mount on one bike. I suppose if I like it I will have to mount on on the other bike too .
Good on you thanks ,I've a o7 883 C model, Australia was 23 K new ,paid 1o K for it with 3oookm on it , staged 1 kit added ,it has never missed a beat , plenty fast enough handles well enough , there's a million nice half price Harley out there ,buy one enjoy
I love your videos GixxerFoo, but only watch them for the sign language hahaha. Seriously mate, keep doing what you do and thanks for posting these great vid's.
I was out on my twin cam 103 with drop in cams the other day on a open road in AZ and a all blacked out RG came up behind me. So I rolled on the throttle to see what my bike could do. I got up to allegedly around 112 and the other RG gave up and slowed down. I slowed down to see if his bike was a 114 or a 117 but he was way back and I was not waiting around.
I agree, in 2019 I bought a 2007 Deuce from a dealer for 10k, the guy who owned it worked there. Pristine 6700 miles. Upgrades already done: Big Bore to 103, high compression heads, stage III with Screaming Eagle tune, V&H duals, all chrome control housing, aftermarket drag bars with tach. The only change I made was pegs/shifter to match other trim, and different sissy bar. Plenty of pull and a great ride.
Great video. I say get what you can afford and modify if you want or don’t! If stock is your thing then stay stock! If performance is your thing then do it up! That’s the beauty of motorsports, everyone has different tastes and flavors on what makes a Harley a Harley. Like most things in life, don’t push your crap on anyone just show them how much fun or happy you it makes you and the rest follow suit. That’s how I got hooked! Saw a lot of bikes at bike night and saw things I liked and didn’t and did my own thing!
I agree
I did my 88, I like that it's a short stroke,almost square engine.
I stage 4 it ,C.P. Precision out of Montreal did the jugs head and crank work.
I got a set of 2002 lower end cases for the timkin bearing. I got the crank plugged and welded,and balanced.
I went with the Woods tw6-hg,with a 2 degree advance,to bring it to 38° intake closing., I had to clearance the cam chest.
I finished it off with a Bassani two into one.
I figure I'm running higher hp, the my buddies 114 with a tork cam, but he beats me in tork.
Crazy money for all of the models.
It sounds good, but finding a good mechanic is sketchy at best.
That's a fact!
I was lucky, I 'hand-picked' my mechanic before I bought my bike. I told him never to retire!
@@Jonathan-L good
Where it counts, flywheel, crank bearings, heat, tranny, compensator TC’s from 2001 & 2002 are by far and away superior pound for pound and will handle any upgrade up to stage 4 without a problem, only upgrade needed will be cam plate which by now, probably %70 of 99-06 TC’s out there have already done this but it’s not necessary, you could service the spring tensioners with upgraded stamped chains. Like Foo said, “ newer doesn’t mean better “ but at the end of the day, get what you want, just do your due diligence .
I agree totally.
The M8 hp numbers don't add up as well as the ongoing oil and warranty issues.
A used TC is cheaper to build up and until you go deep into the M8 horse power is pretty close.
The years of smoothing out the TC issues make it less of a question how and what to build.
I feel like the M8 is having these same growing pains.
Great info and video.
Thank you! That's really my thought, there's a lot of tech in the new bikes but nothing you can't upgrade to and still cheaper than an M8. You can for sure build a solid more reliable twin cam than anything on the show room floor as is. Just gotta take the time to do it and do it right!
I bought my '98 Police Road King 23 years ago. Nearly every year I take a couple of weeks and upgrade something on it. Basically the only things that haven't been replaced are the 2 side covers and headlight nacelle. 111 inches of S&S engine and 6 speed gearset keep it on par if not faster than most of today's bikes. It's paid for and has lots of memories attached to it. Cheaper to upgrade what I know I have than to buy something new. $500 a month for a new bike or spend just a few of those payments on yearly upgrades. Your choice.
The M8's are really good motor's though, and the 4V heads are without a doubt a huge improvement, especially when you start getting into heads/cam work. I think we're about 3-5 years away from starting to see the prices come down below MSRP for a lot of used M8 bikes. They're just too new and too many people paid WAY over MSRP that can't budge on the price. They need to change hands a couple more times and then we'll start seeing the 2nd and 3rd owners pricing them more reasonably. That's when I'm jumping ship to the M8.
Good information. I have a 2008 Harley 105 anniversary edition ultra classic cam out, bored out,screaming eagle ecu and it rides good and fast.
Hey Gixer great information as usual I'm keeping my RG and go for 110 plenty of power for now lmao.
All the best brother
I replaced the cam chest on my 05 Dyna LR with the SC camplate, 203 cam, exact fit pushrods, VH slip ons and tuned it. It was like getting a new motorcycle. Never increased displacement, but the bike had more ponies and torque. Bought a 17’ M8 UltraGlide and stock, it’s more powerful than my old Dyna. Sadly, sold the Dyna
You'll be missing that Dyna before you know it
As us old bike guys know well, it all comes down to owner involvement. I've had a few of my bikes for a long time, like 30yrs. The older bikes are certainly ''maintenance intensive''. If yer not GOOD with your hands and tools, don't get an older bike. If ya want to play with posers at the local HD boutique, get a bike with a warranty. If ya want to RIDE, get an Evo or Twin Cam, have a GOOD mechanic fix the few known, weak links, or better yet, an S&S crate motor , and put 100k/mi on it!
Right on GixxerFoo. Period.
I know you like wood cam's, I have ran a couple different wood cam's in my 95 and 103 twin cam motorsicles about 3years ago I switched to a t- man ps600 this is a hi - torque cam that runs a lot quieter than a wood cam's t-man has a 590 cam with the same spec's as the wood hg590 cam but runs a lot quieter. Wood and T-man cam's are made by Andrews the difference is the ramp on the cam's closing side is a little more gentler with the T-man cam's. You should check them out
I'll take that older Harley any day over a new one. I have older Harleys already. Pretty much all stock. I wouldn't mind a little more performance in the EVOS but my 05 Softail Springer is just fun to ride. If I want to hotrod, I ride my 09 Victory Kingpin.
My 2016 103 HO Road Glide was and awesome machine. I did end up doing quite a few mods to it for living here in Florida. All heat related of course. The HO cam was good I never replaced it. I have a 2020 now and had to replace the cam after 20,000 miles . It was shot 30 days out of warranty of course. Oh well, Maybe I should have kept the 103. I would love to find another 103 HO maybe a Super for just running around.
I think the Motor Company is a victim of its own device. I say buy "very good used" be very careful and know what you want. Forever two wheels.
You for sure gotta know what you want, getting the wrong bike it's not going to do anything the way you had in mind.
There are some decent deals out there but used Harley's are pricy also. My concern with buying used is that you never know how it was ridden or maintained and if the stage 2 or any upgraded internals are there as advertised even when shows a bill the work was done.
I had a friend buy a used Harley, it was supposed to come with a stage 2 cam and cam plate and new chain tensioner and when he bought it, he had an issue short after, pulled it apart and nothing inside was upgraded, or i it was, it was taken out prior to the sale.
biggest reg flag for me is when i look at a used harley i look to see what external upgrades were done and if i see any no name parts added, i walk, people who use Ebay or Amazon parts says a lot about how they maintain.
Currently i have a 2009 Rocker C, 2014 Dyna Wide Glide and 2021 Street Glide
Bought my 2000 883 Sportster for $3000. I paid $5500 for my 1995 Electra Glide. I love used bikes, beats paying $40k for a new CVO! Long live the Evo!!!
Your right about the TW222. It made my 2012 103 a completely different ride, and I made that choice partly based on your recommendation. Btw, Bobby Wood is a genius and a great American and human being.
I put the woods 777 in my 2013 superglide. Hey on top end this thing smokes out brand new low rider with 107 stock I mean pulling in it with a 96ci cammed out
@@dont95blink86 The 222 makes most power between 1200-4500. It’s in the sweet spot at highway cruising speed.
Ya mine in 6th still done have the get up and go like I want it to but I’m scared to see the power it has on top end of 6th I don’t think my dyna would stay on the road it rides like a paper plain anyway. Kinda wish I got the 222s but when I Goto drag race someone those 777 really shine after 4000rpm I mean they hit hard
@@dont95blink86 I’ve been to 110 with my FLHTK and rock solid. I do have Progressive Cartridge up front, and Legends in the rear. Stock heights.
No way I'm dropping 52k on a new cvo RG.....That's crazy $$$
The bigger the engine the more heat it puts out. Do you really need all this excess horsepower just for cruising around while it makes your motorcycle hot as hell to ride on? What does the horsepower race that you other than bragging rights, and a much shorter lifespan for your engine.
I agree
You are the bomb! Thanks for all your work and guidance.
I’m getting old, Foo, because there was a time when I would be looking for all I could get out of my bike and taking notes on all of your advice. But then I’m from a time when the big twin Harleys were 72 cid so my 88 TC is large by comparison. My dad had a 61 inch back in the late ‘40s so even the 72 cid were considered big by me as a kid. I’m thinking it’s time for me to be content with what I’ve got and just try to get a bit more performance out of it with a tune with my PV4, K&N air filter assembly, and more reliability with my Jagg horizontal fan assisted oil cooler. But carry on ‘cause I love seeing how enthusiastic you get about wringing more power from nearly every Harley.
Thank you! I appreciate the support, building power is all well and good but I have never once heard anyone regret putting a bunch of money into a new suspension system on their bike.
Don’t forget about that timken conversion,dark horse crank and fueling cam plate..get those three things done,before anything else.
I Have a 2012 RG with the FM 107 BBK. Just cylinders and pistons. No head work yet. After getting it dyno tuned I got 103Hp and 118Tq. Paired with the woods Tw777 cam and V&H. 2-1. Oh and the aim variable clutch so it doesn’t slip. I absolutely love it. I will do head work because I do need compression release valve. I was super satisfied with FM customer service and parts and would 10/10 recommend their kits no matter the 107 or 117. Great video 30k can get me a lot more than just a fat motorcycle loan
05 Deuce Twin cam 88B and 2014 Streetglide 103 Twin cam here . ❤️❤️❤️❤️them both. I've done no end to the Deuce , S+S ect , Streetglide more stock but God willing they stay reliable and they should see me out . They go PLENTY fast enough. 👍🇬🇧🇺🇲😎
If the previous owner ran the engine hot, which is common today, you are buying a time bomb. HD engines run way too hot. You have to install cooling features to achieve longevity. Another concern is leak down. I would have a leak down test done before buying a used HD.
2007 up Twin cams when you start adding power you need to be looking at truing, plugging, welding and balancing the flywheel. While you are at it you might as well have the Timken bearing put in on the primary side. The compensator on the 2007+ (this includes the M8s) sucks so you should get a Darkhorse replacement. The piston oilers can work there way loose so you might have to split the cases to make sure the holes were drilled and tapped deep enough and then use Loctite. The Harley 110 and 113 manufactured cylinders have a problem with leaking oil on the rear cylinder oil passage at the head. I do not think that the S&S have the same problem. I am not a fan of the tensioners for the cam chain on any year of Twin Cam as before 2007 they can explode (almost happened on my inner one at 10,571 miles) after 2007 it just takes longer and you need to check it every 25,000 miles. Switch to gear drive cams just as long as you have .002" or less shaft run out. Primary chain tensioner should be replaced. South Oregon Hot Bikes makes a really good hydraulic primary chain tensioner that I have been using for 15 years. Good parts an assembly practice makes for a very reliable engine with good power.
Hey FOG it. I had a 117 big bore kit from Harley done at Harley 13K miles ago. The kit came with hydraulic chain tensioners. Do you think they need to be replaced now? I’ve heard about that Rocky Mountain site. Small family owned business. Do you like their products?
Oh yeah, I did the Dark Horse compensator and like it a lot.
@@peteryeanacopolis2037 I just did a replacement of tensioners on a 2015 103" FLH. It had 25,000 miles on the tensioners. The outside one had a few more miles to go and it would have to of been replaced. The inside tensioner looked good but I replaced it with Cyco brand tensioners. Cyco tensioners are supposed to be a longer lasting plastic than the OEM. A secret to getting the cup out of the old tensioner is to heat up a nail and push it into the tensioner material into the cup. It should end pushing it out. Then you just push the cup into the new tensioner from Cyco. I have not heard of the Rocky Mountain.
@@fogit4668 thank you 👍
Police bikes are the best value right now 114 RDRS oil cooler w fan heated grips heavy duty stator standard
I have finally decided to take your recommendation and going ahead with woods 222 cams on my 103 FLHTCU and that's more than enough torque & power for my liking.
Thanks Gixxer
Thanks Gixxer. Always very on point. I would add............the new baggers are coming in at 960 lbs whereas the 2008 Heritage comes in at 672 lbs. Fully equipped and modified mine puts out 96 hp and 105 ft lbs. On a pure power to weight ratio this puts the older bike well in the performance zone. A 117 motor puts out 107 HP and 125 ft lb. A HP comparison puts my heritage at 0.0645 ratio and the 117 at 0.0505.. On a torque basis the comparison is 08 0.000112881 and the 117 at 0.00010605. Let me have your thoughts.
Another great video!!
Awesome information!!
Very wise info!!
Thank you
What's a 103 HO make if you had to guess? Mines liquid cooled and has been tuned with high-flow intake with a decent ish 2+1.
Man, you are so honest! Not like 99,9%of the HD owners... "my brand, best brand". HD is a joke!😢 I don'tcare about price, but i like to ride every day without problems.
I love the content man. Watching your videos I’ve learned a lot. Watching them helped me buy my bike last year and also helped me select a set of cams this year went with the fueling 574s. Bikes at the speed shop now and will be done later this week I can not wait to feel the difference
I like my 07 96'' Street Glide just the way it is great on the Interstate ,My 06 Springer for cruising & hopping . When i feel the need for fast & cheap . I get on my Yamaha FZ-1....no mods needed
I love my twin cam 88. I'm leaving it as is. 2005 Softail Deluxe. I will be upgrading cam chain tensioners this winter but that's it. I'm gonna ride it, maintain it and enjoy it.
There is nothing cheap when it concerns Harley-Davidson. If the twin cams and the milwaukee-eight equipped Harley's had been equipped with Evolution Motors maybe with 4-valve heads they would not have had any of the problems that they have had with these two series of motors.
Bull shit, they are cheaply manufactured. And parts prices are outrageous.
@@feloniousmonk3049 I agree with you 100% the twin-cam as well as the Milwaukee 8 our dismal I would not take either one for free. Harley-Davidsons best motor was developed under AMF.
Love my TC 103 wet head and plan to rebuild it when the time comes. Currently it has 56,000 miles and I feel it has a ton to go. I had thought about trading up at one point but when I seen the oiling issues I was like nope keep what I have. Plus I destroy warranties on my bikes because I can't leave them alone.
Man I love your honesty and how you share your knowledge, with that who/why would anyone buy a HD, they obviously make over priced, substandrad motorcycle enginges and then con their market into thousands of dollars of "Upgrades" to have a reliable motorcycle...ANY ANY HD w regular maintance should be reliable 100,000 plus miles!!!! Harley corporate are thieves playing on their customers patriotism....
You mentioned the 'oiling issue' on the M8. How about a video explaining it and giving remediation recommendations?😉 EBS, crank case vent, didn't someone offer a shorter bolt for the crank case to prevent sumping, new oil pump for which MY, etc.
Ride safe 🤙
That's a really good idea!
Fueling Parts sells the smaller sump plug... my next move this spring
Feuling sells the shortened sump plug. You can also add teflon tape to the plug threads, 4 or 5 wraps, which will keep the tapered plug from threading in so deep. 2017,18 and early build 2019's have the older 10 tooth oil pump. HD finalized the 8th version in mid 2019, and from then on, all new Production HD's got the 8 tooth oil pumps, which utilize 50/50 oil flow, vs earlier versions which were 60/40 oil flow. Any time you go stage 2 and run a RPM Horsepower cam, or stage 3 or stage 4, you should immediately update to the new improved pump on the 2017's, 2018's and early 2019's. Stage 1 and Stage 2 with a torque cam where you run the engine never exceeding 4500 -5000 rpms, the stock oil pump is adequate.
No way I was paying 26k for a new 2024 Heritage Softail. I bought a used 2016 heritage with only 9k miles on it for 11,500 👍😎. That 114 engine in new one doesn’t impress me any. The 103 high output is more than enough for me. It’s fast enough to get me killed!
evos run great ! hell , shovels are easy to work on
Can you make a video addressing the fuel tank liner peeling off and clogging up the fuel system and how to fix it
My 06 road king with a lot of work pushes 115 hp with 117 ftlbs of torque. Main problem is that power isn't speed, you have to regear it to make a difference in that front.
Ahh yes the M8.... Harley managed to make a new motor that sumped like an ole shovel...😳 Damnit Harley 😂
Cams are important and so is headwork. I will stick with my 06 FLHTI that has been tuned with cam, headwork, SE intake, and performance exhaust.
I have a 110 with the s&s kit with a 585 cam and it's fucking awesome!!
I'd like to get that special model you talk about for 30k, more like 40+ in reality.
as a new rider to Harley, thank you for the excellent info.
Oil issues on the M8 are an easy fix and not all m8 have or had oiling or sumping issues. Granted if you spend that much on a bike you should not have to put in a new cam plate and oil pump
It's just the oil pump. A new oil pump from HD for a M8 is $170.00.
No probs on mine so far 3 years on...
Don't need all that big horsepower. High flow air cleaner , pipes ,mild cam and adjustable pushrods in my Evo 100,00 miles and still no issues. No need to increase power on a 96 or 103 , just add pipes and a high flow air cleaner that's all you need.
Exactly right!
You could make an argument that you NEVER get your moneys worth on a new Harley Davidson.
I bought my 2001 Roadking new through the overseas military sales program, for right at $15K.
A month after I picked it up at the dealer, I saw the EXACT same color and option motorcycle [as mine] on the show room floor priced at $21K.
The overseas sales program turns a profit I can assure you.
Yet, dealers continue to price and sell bikes at super high mark ups. And people with money to burn seem happy to pay.
Car dealers do the same thing for their high demand/special vehicles. See above...
HOW MUCH?!! Hate to tell you, my buddy just snagged a new Screamin Eagle Road Glide Ultra. 54k! 30Ks is mid 2000s pricing. I used to build Harleys and yes, the twin cam is a great engine BUT, you aren't anywhere near the potential of the M8. I have a massaged M8(not much) and it is moving 110 square at the rear wheel. You'd have to get into A LOT more mods to get near that on a twin cam but YES it WILL do it. I built an 06 twin pushing 130hp and 124tq back in the day but there was over 10k in that motor and they become VERY temperamental at those numbers.