1. 'What are you feeling' - Rephrase as 'What do you think/feel about XYZ.' Make it less about feelings and more something practical. 2. "You're doing XYZ wrong". Here's what we can do to improve: __. This way you don't trigger their shame. 3. "That's embarrassing" - Just do "Thanks for sharing". 4. "Tell me everything". DA's like their privacy and autonomy. Just ask for details or "tell me more about that" 5. "What is the future?" - It's very normal to want to know about this, but the DA will feel overwhelmed by non-specific questions. Thanks for the video Thais! Incredibly helpful as always! As a secure leaning FA(got both some DA and AP tendencies) dating a DA the things you mention are so recognisable! Rephrasing is indeed something I'v e noticed works quite well !
@@violetsky__7649 I'm guessing it depends on the situation. Since a DA tends to feel very overwhelmed when sharing something about themselves (even if it is not a lot - they feel like it's a lot) you should just be careful not to mock them when sharing such a thing - you should be encouraging while at the same time not making too big of a deal out of it. Those are my two cents - just be aware of the moment, and depending on the DA they might prefer one way over the other, just don't mock them in anyway!
Especially for a DA not doing the work, this is alot of thinking before talking when they won't even do half the work for any other attachment. Been there.... Not to mention they will still often get defensive, deflects, feel like their a victim
What's kind of sad is that this is a helpful video that some people will use. What's even more sad is that there's a lot of us in the comments that have no self respect towards ourselves and feel emotionally conflicted between staying with this person or leaving them.
Wow I wish I knew "what is the future" was so triggering before I scared my DA and he abruptly broke up, panicked, walked away and is now justifying why we shouldn't be together. After 2 years of dating I was shocked by the lack of effort to fight to stay and we were happy like a day ago.
Super helpful! I think I’m currently dating an avoidant. My late husband was a DA. I’m FA. I know now why it took us to six years to get to the alter. Fifteen years of beautiful partnership before cancer took him away.
You sound really happy with your past DA, and you also sound patient, which I respect. I really like a girl who might be DA or have tendencies, and unlike so many of the commentors on here, I am not angered because of the pace. She didn't force me to catch feelings, I liked her on my own. I take responsibility for the fact I like her a lot and that she has these things going on. Not tryna sound corny, but I'm willing to be patient and see what can happen. I accept the risk of getting hurt over time, it is not easy. But, really like her and don't wanna miss an opportunity that could be really different.
I would say before doing the work the most triggering statement was “what are you feeling?” Now I would say one of the things that still might trigger me a bit is “tell me everything” but apart from that its nothing else is really that triggering now! But anyways very accurate content as always!
After watching many videos, I realize that I must've triggered my DA so much while having no idea and here I was feeling triggered as if he was doing something wrong. I'll never forget the first time I asked him what he's looking for and if he sees progressing into something more longterm. He was stuttering and looked scared out of his mind. You would've thought I proposed to him or something. 🤣 We're still dating, but he needs to feel like we're coasting with no pressure. This took me a long time to understand and I didn't like it as my past has shown when men didn't want to commit it means they're keeping they're options open. I knew him for a couple of decades before we started dating and he's not about that, but I was triggered anyway. In the end, this is the longest I've ever dated anyone and we're doing good! We just had to learn each other.
Being in a relationship with a DA felt like I threw myself into a fire, it’s like all my belongings were burning down in the fire, and I tried to grab and save what I could without being burned up too. The burns weren’t worth anything I recovered
Love this video. Even if not in a relationship with a DA, the skill of communicating/reframing in a loving, positive manner is so valuable in general. Personal growth! Thank you, Thais!
My DA has spontaneously said “I love you,” several times in person and several times in voicemails, but when I tried to start ending our phone conversations with “I love you,” he didn’t reciprocate, and he laid low for a few days. So now I’m not sure if I should reciprocate his “I love you”s or not!!! ??? It’s almost like dealing with a split personality! 😢
JC... this is too much catering to their faults! I've spent 19 years with one, and had no idea they were such a turn-off. I'm an INFJ, and anxious to boot... this "shallowness" is SO not my style. He always said he'd never be able to find the depth that we had, but I was thinking, "If ONLY I could've gotten to the level of depth I preferred." I ended up with him having a 2 month "emotional affair" with my niece. 19 years shot. All the effort; all the bending; all the sacrifices. I'm SO grateful we never had children together! Human ones, anyway.
The first and 2nd ones would’ve probably triggered me the most when I was more DA. Glad to see I’m making progress with healing myself thanks to your courses 🥰💕
I'm struggling to continue moving forward with a DA. It's amazing, and draining. Literally no in-between. Not sure how much longer I can go, but I don't want to let go either. Literally driving myself crazy
I had a very similar experience. She was so amazing but I just couldn’t figure out who she was, what she actually wanted etc. I didn’t work out. Miss her a lot but probably for the better.
Love this. I'm FA & hubby is DA. I didn't expect anything off of him when we first started. Never asked where we were going, because I didn't want to be let down. lol. But he let me know when he was ready to make the next move throughout the course of our relationship. He was very upfront that he was dismissive, lol so it made me less fearful but I'm avoidant of conversations like this. Even now, I think about it all sometimes, but don't say it until I find out he's been planning it as I'm thinking about it, & he opens the conversation. Lol. Sometimes I question if he can read my mind. 😂
After beating my head with a DA, it's not worth it. If they aren't willing to change(they more than likely aren't!), ultimately, you'll get tired of dealing with their nonsense and always having to bend to accommodate them and have to walk on eggshells around them. Not worth it.
Couldn't agree more! What a waste of time to try make them feel comfortable and not hurt their feelings and not cause them to flee. We all have pain and we can all choose to face it and do the hard work to heal, they aren't special enough to sacrifice our sanity.
I just signed up last night for reprogramming as a AP! I feel like I've gone crazy this week with feelings of replacement and abandonment, and I feel like it's now or never
Thais and PDS, this is so incredibly helpful and hopeful, I’m so excited to implement communication tools like these with my loved ones. Being able to lead and connect better in this way really excites and empowers me!
I listened to the fearful avoidant things to never say video and I thought ugh! But listening to this one as a DA I think, yes of course. Hahahaha... I love seeing how we are all different and how you help us figure out how to support each other. Can't wait to take the scripts course. Thx Thais
A lot of these things have me doing face palms , but in a good way if that’s possible haha. I’m so glad I’m learning NOW instead of later or never, but I wish I had learned this years ago! It’s never too late! I can’t wait for the FA one!!
I reckon this applies to every attachment style. Not just DA. I really dislike broad and vague open ended loaded questions like “what’s in the future” or “what are you feeling. “. I’m not DA. But these kinds of questions are too broad and vague for any attachment style in the early phases of dating. Specificity is vital.
As a FA leaning A, I would say these do not apply to every attachment style. I love when my partner asks me "what are you feeling" and "what's is the future." Even in the early dating stages, it makes me feel like they are rally trying to "see" me. Maybe if you feel strongly about these questions you have a bit of DA in you..? Something to ponder...
@@frankie9953 no DA really in me. I just don’t think “what is the future” is a question that a secure person would ask in the early stage of dating. It’s too broad and vague and abdicates responsibility to the other person to provide the structure of the response. Obviously the context makes a huge difference. But if someone was going to talk about the future as a secure person it would be a much deeper and more safe conversation.
@@NinteddyRose it is actually an open ended question. It’s also broad and possibly loaded. If someone can’t offer what they feel about something themselves, then asking someone else is a loaded question. Of someone asked me “what are you feeling?” In the early stages of dating without offering what they were feeling, it’s loaded. Saying “I really like you. “ is a straight forward statement. “I’d like to spend more time together” is a straight forward statement of a secure person. “Would you like to spend more time together?” is a straight forward question. Not “what are you feeling?” … do you see the difference? One is assertive and assured, the other is insecure.
@@MellowBellow1 My bad, its definitely open ended, and depending on the context, it could be loaded. But generally asking someone what they are feeling in most situations is definitely not a loaded question. I ask my DA partner what or how she's feeling all the time to make sure we're good and she either gives a me a straight forward direct answer and thanks me for checking in or she'll state that shes unsure and will let me know when she really knows how she feels.
Honestly the comments are more therapeutic then the video to a degree😅 Reading everyone else’s responses has me feeling more sane and normal. So it’s pretty much a universal experience with people who date dismissive avoidant’s. Walking on eggshells, and always trying to please an “emotionless robot”. So sad, but so true.. The way they discard and dismiss is just absolutely brutal.. I’m almost avoidant myself now lol.
but do you see how that works? because of your personal experiences, you're feeling more avoidant. that's exactly how avoidants end up avoidant...they were exposed to people whose behaviors shaped their attachment style. people like to villainize avoidants without having empathy for how they got that way.
@@leah-7011 Oh no I have empathy for them. And by me saying I’m almost avoidant myself, I just avoid people. And relationships all together. I’m fine alone for now lol. So I don’t use my trauma to further traumatize other individuals. So as I empathize with avoidants, I don’t sympathize with them. Nonetheless, I’m actually working on myself. Very few avoidants ever even turn their focus in words.
@@leah-7011 the difference is other attachment styles are willing to work on themselves and be self reflective. DAs could care less about how they impact others & also have no desire to self evaluate even at the cost of losing a loved one.
The dating scene is a mess. It's a sea of dysfunction with unhealed people in an instant gratification based hookup culture. When you've healed you'll make better choices. It starts with hardballing on the first phone call or meeting. The internet is full of wounded people that want casual relationships. Dates sites and social media. Jonathan Aslay's comment is that date sites are a form of prostitution. Spot The Wrong Guy (Jonathan Aslay) Excellent dating and relationship information for all ages. Accepting ownership. We are all a common denominator. There is victim consciousness and victor consciousness. Date smart. Choose wisely. Evolved people. ❤️
We've been together for about 5 months now. It's been very... Up and down, because I am FA and he has triggered me to lean more anxious. He says he generally starts feeling love around a year together, which is painful for me as I've already started falling in love with him (which is terrifying in and of itself for me). But I haven't been pressuring him to say it and I haven't said it to him so I don't risk scaring him away. He says if he felt he was wasting either of our time and there was no chance, he'd end it. Which I'm assuming means he feels.... Something? I mean, he acts like he cares in a lot of ways and he's been so affectionate at times... But we're getting near to the 6 month mark and... He doesn't love me, and it feels like for every intimate moment we have together, I have to deal with him distancing for a day or two Is it worth it to try and stick this out in the hopes he will finally love me? When things are good, they're really good. But when there is conflict and/or one or both of us start to deactivate, it's so painful
Dear, when the man is getting emotionally close with you, his estrogen levels go up, which is triggering his female side. In order for his testosterone level to go up, he has to go away from you and do his manly things to get his testosterone level back up so he can be more loving towards you when he comes back to you. This is normal for men to so this. I pray that this explanation helps you!
@@msBbee-oq7im The deactivation is explained by his attachment style. Rather than him being a man. If that were the case then anxiously attached men would need distance from their partner when getting too close. A secure man will also take space but it will be from a perspective of balance and interdependence not because they have gotten too close to their partner and are having a vulnerability hangover.
My advice to anyone who is in this is to focus on yourself and your healing, and you will start to see how you will put your needs as important and also you will become less attracted to DA partners. I was AP/FA who has been a DA man magnet because they treated me like I treated my self. Since becoming more secure, I dated a DA man and it no longer felt good to be with someone who treated me with dismissiveness and avoidance. I stopped seeing him, when it became uncomfortable to me. The truth is that no matter what anyone tells you, you won't leave until the situation becomes unbearable to you. It's a harsh truth, but it's true none the less. That's how it worked for me and many others I have seen in the school. If he is not willing to put in the work the relationship will fail sooner or later. How much more are you willing to hurt? That is a question only you can answer foe yourself. I wish you the best and hope you can have compassion for your self more than for others outside of you. 🙏
@@cappygurl I tried dating a much more severely avoidant guy last year. Like, he could easily go a week without talking. He may have been a narcissist actually. Still unsure, as he never let me inside far enough for me to tell and I didn't stick around long enough to find out 😅 But, I eventually ended it after a few months. Still, that situation left scars for sure. This new guy I've been with is much more genuine though. I understand that his need for space is because he is such an independent person and really does need it to recharge and feel like himself. And it's never more than a day, which is doable. I trust him a surprising amount for how short it's been, and despite my abandonment wounds being triggered. He IS trying in a lot of ways, which I can recognize when I'm not in the middle of feeling triggered. There has been some definite progress (even if it's been painful at times), and when I tell him my needs explicitly like Thais suggests, he's gotten better about trying to meet them to the best of his ability (and if he can't, he will be upfront and let me know that it's not within his capabilities, which I appreciate). It's just... Very slow, I guess. That's what gets me. Sometimes it feels like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. And it's confusing to me that he acts like he truly cares (and tells me he cares every now and then), but has said he doesn't love me yet when the topic of love came up in a conversation the other day. I guess actions are more important than words. But still. Ouch But, I appreciate your concern. I certainly am working on caring as much for myself as I do other people. And my partner is encouraging me to do this as well, which I appreciate and recognize he's doing out of genuine care for me, not just self-absorption
I have been with a DA just over 6 months. We mostly hang on the weekends and has always been great times. But during the week we don’t text and most of the time I reaches out to make plans to meet. At a point I started to doubt as if he was really interested in me at all. We never talked about us before, So I had to have the talk with him. As it turns out he had feelings for me more than I expected. It was quite a shock to me as I thought he’d break up with me. The point of sharing my story is I needed to ask him for my own sanity, so I prioritized myself and just fortunate he was open and aware of himself and we are able to get back on the right track. I wish you good luck but approach with love and compassion.
I feel that more DA's would rather be engaged in their "fantasies" within their phones than having a real relationship..They are just as stressed trying to engage with a " healthy secure person " as we are with them..We expect them to be "present and tuned in". They are living in a world of disconnection and perpetual loneliness , while we are wanting the full experience of intimacy and connection . Secure persons are best with each other otherwise you better book in with a therapist.
Thank you for these precious advices that go beyond relationship with an avoidant partner and can be considered as elementary wise and nonviolent forms of respectful communication with any person we might be interacting with without attempting to control them. It is nobody’s business how I am feeling or exploring everything in my life, unless I am consulting a professional I have freely chosen for help, something no romantic partner can provide. No one has a right to pass a judgment on my choices and behaviours but is free to offer a loving suggestion No one knows what the future holds for any of us but we can all share our present intuition and choices and admit that they might change in time and according to oncoming events. As my DA taught me, only idiots never change their opinion. Their «wounds» are a precious insight into the reality of life in this world and they teach us humility and the art of letting go of trying to control others.
Seems to !e they are the opposite of what they want. They want trust but not give it..They want genuine and honest but not give it. They want love and connection but not make the effort.. I do not see it possible to get through If somone doesnt show they care..thats a pretty good god damn sign they dont
Amazing! It helps tremendously to understand the attachment styles and communication. Source of many of my issues with SO. Thanks for this clear way of handling how to manage this.
1Thinking vs. feel 2Shame wounds here's what we could do to improve. 3That:s embarrassing wants to be accepted will shut down. That's hard. 4 tell me what you think about x. 5 ask what is the future ( specifics about future retirement specifics) or they will feel overwhelmed. See. Niklas below
Thanks for sharing this! My DA guy just sent me a text about not being able to talk over the Xmas weekend, and even though he had already verbally told me a few times, it really rubbed me the wrong way. The tone seemed so cold and factual. But from his point of view he was just reminding me of his unavailability so I wouldn’t get stressed out. Ironic!! He is really warm in person but he’s a TERRIBLE texter! Someone needs to invent an app for that, lol. I also wanted to add that my DA guy has been able to say “I love you” spontaneously… and he definitely is better about initiating the I love you’s than reciprocating them. I’m okay with not being in phone or video contact every day. But my main struggle is to find a way to keep in base level contact on the days when he needs to recharge and not talk or meet up. If anyone has any ideas not based on texting, please share! 😊
DA here, maybe send him just one short message, telling him that you care about him and that you enjoy the time with him. No questions, no specific remarks and not every day. My heart would melt ^^
100% with you on the texting issues!! I'll say that after learning and understanding the DA in your life on a deeper/more intimate/closer/etc level...you begin realizing those initial "cold" or short sounding texts aren't meant that way. It's just a quick, usually to-the-point message, but doesn't mean they're upset/angry/etc with you! I myself am a very detailed texter, so I've just learned to adjust not only my texting style, but my expectations over text. As we progress, I may gently introduce some suggestions for text communication, but it seems that understanding your person is really key on this point.
Wow. If only I saw this video a day earlier. Last night she got super upset with me for asking a couple of times throughout the night "How are ya feeling?" My intention was not to monitor her mood, but to just communicate a little bit and check in because I like some reassurance every once in a while. Seems obvious where I went wrong now. I hope she forgives me. My apology was really sincere and I reiterated that I trust her. I hate upsetting someone i care about, especially accidentally.
Oh No! I had no idea! I always wanted to know what she was feeling! I was frustrated when I asked How are you? Then I'd hear intellectual stuff I'm looking for emotional depth that I KNOW is there... in words though. Sigh... And then the critical parts... though I didn't say they did things wrong.. I don't like using that word... I like the positive reframes.
When asked how we're feeling it can be interpreted it as "how are you?", so "I'm good" seems the most logical response. Because if we really say want we're feeling the person could lash out or disappear. So this is just way safer; we don't rock your 🚢 and we can keep things on an even keel
@@ashton1952 I hear that is the fear of vulnerability. I suppose its how its communicated. Yes, i hear you that the shutting down and silent treatment is protection and feels safe. There is always a risk in sharing how one feels. I do it all the time. It takes courage even if it seems to come with ease. Theres a risk for anyone being vulnerable. I would share what hurt and cry and if it was caused by the DA they were cold. If it was caused by another they would still look at it intellectually and I'd be faced with someone who was distant in that. They did not express warmth or concern or care. Just intellectual reasons why they ignore one and not another. Its painful to share something very vulnerable and be ignored or minimized. Or face cold responses. I know myself as someone who is compassionate and knows how to give empathy. Warmth and concern. And curiosity. The DA needs this modeled so they can know how to express it themselves. The very thing that is being avoided can be what is needed for healing. Also, why is the anger of raising vocal volume worse than quietly cutting words of insult and demeaning? Lashing out can be frustration of another being so much in their head and not their heart, lack of understanding, and sense of overwhelm, lack of support or doing it alone. Needing the DA to step up and show up. But if there is calm curiosity with the partner of the DA and the DA is willing to practice... even sharing the inner deeper Thinking process. Share with me your inner processes of decision making you're doing inside about yourself or me, things that impact us. Sharing thoughts about conflict areas is good too. Basically, let's look at this together. If there is part of the relationship that doesn't feel sustainable, get curious about solutions and shifting the dynamic instead of being defeated and giving up. Let's try this, BOTH of us doing our part. Perhaps asking the DA What do you need? Is easier for them? But I'd like to know about other needs besides space/distance. Where is the growth or repair if DA doesn't get real about identifying and sharing. They may be surprised that their partner softens when they soften and showers them with love or has new understanding. Could even preface it by saying "I want to share with you how I feel AND I'm afraid that if I do that right now, you are going to Lash out." That expression of the feeling of being afraid, which is often the same feeling others have, can give a chance to be mindful. If both expresses a fear and agree to Not respond with anger. DA I know has Alot of repressed anger. So say it "I've been feeling angry about this. I am needing understanding." People who care are not Always going to lash out. I often wanted to get quiet and mutually vulnerable. Without robot responses.
@@ShimmerSoulSong DA here and i think you described the problem quite well. And youre right about the DA needing closeness and Empathy modeled.....as for me i often feel like it is a language that i dont understand or speak. Like i dont know what to do with the warmth another person gives me and i have absolutely no clue on how to show it/ give it back. like a friend trying to just look at me/make eyeconatct because they want to connect....i genuenly dont know how to act in that situation! its like im playing a role on a stage and suddenly i ran out of script. Or someone trying to make smalltalk....i dont know what to do with that. Also with the needs. if someone would ask me what i need or want ....my usual response would be that i dont need anything. I genuenly dont know what i could/should want in a situation/relationship....or even on a vacation...i dont want anything, and i dont need anything, why should i? the thought that someone has to do something they dont want to or do extra work for me just feels like too much. Space/distance is litteraly the only need i can pinpoint. overall im feeling verymusch defeated when it comes to relationships, it feels overwhelming and something i have no control over...something i just dont know how to do.
@@fireshine4105 my heart goes out to you. I hear you. Hm. Maybe you could try some of tools Thais has and do baby steps bit by bit. It sounds like it's much of what comes with close connection is foreign to you. As someone working on transforming myself as FA, and someone who has been a caretaker of others for a long time, I was puzzled the first time when someone asked me what I needed, in my 20s. She actually asked me, as. Priestess In a Goddess Temple,"How may I serve you?". And I was like Wha? What do you mean? I was just open and BEing there. So she was asking me to look closer at myself with attention and identify and name and then practice asking. As resource that may be helpful for you is the list of Feelings and Needs that come with most NVC work. Sigh. I can guess some of the feelings and needs you conveyed here. I think that some people might not push or continue to try with you if you give a vibe of give me space. It's a delicate dance of approach. Have you seen videos where people come across an emaciated abandoned dog? It's scared or honestly baring clinging to life. And they pick it up or in some cases if the dog can move they work on earning its trust with soft word tones and food, hoping it will come near instead of running off. In many cases, perhaps because of Dog's inherent nature is to connect and share touch and play and love and joy, somewhere in there it starts to come out. With patience and tenacity on the part of the human who is believing in it. In time the dog gains weight and strength and desire to connect and play. It comes back to life and sometimes they are quirky and still have some issues but are way better off. Practicing. Humans are much more complex than dogs. When I first met a person I didn't know was DA, I "saw" alot about this person. And so even though I was given the cold shoulder many times and that hurt, I did not give up. I gave space and time after an invite was declined, initially. 3 weeks go by. They decide to challenge themselves for growth and started saying yes to my invitations to get out into the world. They generally still had a strict routine and continued to do gaming which was different than the gaming they had addiction to before which they agreed kept them from developing in some real life areas. RPGs writing are different than video games. The days that we hung out, they put their trust in me with spontaneity and loose plans. I am trustworthy and protective and sought to meet needs. They would ask for acts of service like being taken grocery shopping. We had a blend of variety and repetition. Lots of novelty which we both loved. Doing things. Hikes and making meals together and unlike many DAs this person is affectionate. So slowly we warmed up to trying platonic cuddles. Along with hugs and that was an easy flow and common. This person liked conversation, but shared in a way of saying they needed to know what's happening in the world or books and share from there rather than talking about feelings and needs. They read alot. But when I presented them with things that I thought would help areas of friction between us, like the Feelings and Needs stuff, they would rather read about history and fantasy stuff and anything besides what I was requesting. I'd ask to please watch videos of empaths or HSPs so they could understand me better. And the DA was a very deep feeler! I know because of the opera and classical symphony music and video game music and shamanic journey music we listened to when napping or cuddling. It was the best. They looked to me as mentor and I looked at us as friends. But when it came to me needing them to be considerate and respond with empathy, it seemed there was judgement or just not understanding. So when I read your experience, I I feel alot compassion for that level of disconnect. It also makes me wonder about traumas you may have suffered? I mean, neglect is a trauma. Well if you are following Thais videos then to me that points to the part of you that's calling out to heal. I think it could be helpful if you were presented with a list of options about what you need. Whether it's a vacation or other thing. Really tuning into your body. Get in touch with your body and emotional heart. Really doing things with your body. Since water is an element related to emotions, I would encourage you to be in water. At a gym pool maybe. Swim. Or walk in a pool. Feel your whole body. If you are Alive you are having some Needs met. Sleep. Food. Think abt what you like and are drawn to. What else do you like to connect with? Animals? Nature? Look at the way you relate and what they mean and how other living beings respond to you. You are not a burden by having needs from others. It is common for people to help each other get needs met. Search for Lists of Feelings and Needs and read those. Get familiar and maybe you will be like Ohhh yeah, I get that. Idk. You can still have autonomy and space while also learning to connect. Be out in public in a park. Witness people. Chat with strangers in the store. Baby steps.
@@ShimmerSoulSong hey thanks for the indepth answer! Yeah I'm usually the one making sure everyone is happy... Except if they want to cuddle haha. I will definitely be looking into the things you suggested although I don't think that I will be able to execute on them fully. I already realized that a lot of things are missing from my life that could be considered important needs (art for example) and I will have to put them off for another year or so due to life circumstances... But as you said baby steps, so I guess doing some connection work with my body might be a start. I feel like the whole topic is so complex. I did take Thais Da course but I found it a bit overwhelming/confusing with all the things to work on, without a Clear starting point. So I think at this point I'll just randomly choose the body work as there is not really a lot of places I could connect with anything or get these needs met that I mentioned.
I have a Motto in my life : do what you want as long as you don't hurt me ! And when it comes to DA . The only way the won't hurt you is by not being together in the first place . Sorry for my brutal words
@@sunbeam9222 oh I feel plenty. I feel plenty of anger, fear and resentment when someone wants to rush me into feeling something for them instead of just accepting that I go at my own pace. DAs have plenty of feelings, but you’re not entitled to them. You sound awfully selfish.
Not to be insensitive here but if this is a romantic relationship, you should be who you are and observe the way you feel around the person starting from the very beginning. If you are an emotional person that needs that in return, then just let the DA go and find someone that fits your needs
I hear you! But ultimately This isn’t about not being who you are though, it’s about being who you are with more upgraded strategies to connect with your loved one (these things help us grow and become more balanced and healthily interpersonal too!)
I totally agree. In my very very long time marriage my spouse totally shut down a very big avoidant. So he is divorcing me because he can't or will no longer relate on a emotional level chooses to keep carrying his baggage.
Hey, I'm a DA, and not all DA's are like that! :) I was in one of work groups in Thais's course and one girl called me "a very conscious DA". I need my space and I am slow with feelings but I make sure that my partner understands that, so I will for example text them in advance like "I have a busy weekend because I need to help my family, so I won't be able to text you a lot" or "I am not sure about my feelings yet, but I am sure I want to go on with this relationship", I have never let my partners wait for my messages and leave them in the dark, but if they can't accept my pace and pressure me into feeling more than I can at the moment, that will cause me huge anxiety and push me away from the person.
I am saying that you should be how you want to be in a relationship and find someone that has the same wants and desires. Instead of waiting until you fall for someone and then trying to get them to reciprocate
Its too overwhelming, i got to learn all these things i triggered him with after he left. I really wish people come with manuals. I really wish to mend things with him and do everything the right way. If only he would trust me again and be open to give this another try. Its not fair losing someone because i didn't know better
Yoooo!!! I was so mad at the first question 🤣😂🤣😂. Even fully understanding the context and that I WAS NOT actually being asked this 😅😅😅 didnt matter. 😫😫😫😫
Ty so much for this. Is it ok to ask if he can sometimes show a little affection before I do. And how to ask it we are togeather for three years I care a lot for him he is a DA ty
OMG DA's are down right selfish! I'm sick and tired of hearing that we have to literally walk on egg shells, feel sorry for them and always watch what we say to them. My ex was a DA with narcissistic traits..All about him. With all that said, I will never give a DA my full attention or time. I'm so done with these types of people!! Oh, and a majority of them will not change, not do they want to. Poor pitiful you!!
Stay with what you can cope with then. These people have been through traumas and really don't need to be judged either. Let's do what we can to make the world a kinder place
@@trash3570 I'm great and doing my own thing..3years 3 months sober. Yes I was pretty hard against DA's..at that time that's how I felt..at least 24 people liked my comment..they understand. Why do you call yourself trash?? Hmm 🤔
@@clairesanders1742 you can psycho analyze my name or you can admit this comment was rude. Either way, 24 people agreeing with you doesn’t mean what you said is good. And before you assume, I’m not DA
DAs should not be in relationships period, I can’t imagine being married to one of these people , I bet it’s like being married to a wall. Nobody should have to walk on eggshells for them either to keep them happy, DA does nothing to make their partner feel safe or loved even😣
Choose a different attachment style, and make sure you raise your own children so they don't become like this. DA's never started out deciding to do this it's been a way of survival, do not judge just be thankful; could've been you
Basically it’s giving in to their demands verbally or non verbally. It’s painful when the leave without notice and stonewall you. So so painful. Yet so loving when a DA is around.
@@ashton1952 no children for me thanks. I think we all are grown adults and so are DAs but they continue to make excuses for the way they treat others while other attachments are told to work on themselves, DAs are continuously excused and enabled.
This is at least the 3rd video where you've been demonizing DAs in the comments. Have you considered getting help for the wounds you're still holding on to? It'll probably be more constructive than continuing to throw tantrums in a place where people come to better themselves.
Basically A DA Is a child and must be pandered to. They are incapable of selfless love . I guess don’t buy them a hallmark card dealing with feelings or romance… it might make them feel overwhelmed. It’s ok to love and be loved. It’s ok to want to be wanted and to want . Read the 5 love languages and love your partner how they receive it. It’s not complicated. It’s ok to be transparent and vulnerable with your partner. It’s normal! Otherwise , greeting card companies would be out of business.
IF THERE ANYONE OUT THERE TO HAVE A ANSWER I WAS DATING A DA BUT SHE HAD A PROBLEM WITH ALCOHOL.. OUT OF A WEEK 2 NIGHTS SHE WOULD TRY TO FORGET THE PROBLEM.. I KNOW ITS NOT MY FAULT BUT I DID LOVE HER AND CARED BUT I WAS WALKING ON EGG SHELLS
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
1. 'What are you feeling' - Rephrase as 'What do you think/feel about XYZ.' Make it less about feelings and more something practical.
2. "You're doing XYZ wrong". Here's what we can do to improve: __. This way you don't trigger their shame.
3. "That's embarrassing" - Just do "Thanks for sharing".
4. "Tell me everything". DA's like their privacy and autonomy. Just ask for details or "tell me more about that"
5. "What is the future?" - It's very normal to want to know about this, but the DA will feel overwhelmed by non-specific questions.
Thanks for the video Thais! Incredibly helpful as always! As a secure leaning FA(got both some DA and AP tendencies) dating a DA the things you mention are so recognisable! Rephrasing is indeed something I'v e noticed works quite well !
For #3, is saying “that’s funny/silly/cute” still triggering to a DA?
@@violetsky__7649 silly, yes. Funny, depends if it's aimed at the person or rather drawing attention to the humor of the situation
@@violetsky__7649 I'm guessing it depends on the situation. Since a DA tends to feel very overwhelmed when sharing something about themselves (even if it is not a lot - they feel like it's a lot) you should just be careful not to mock them when sharing such a thing - you should be encouraging while at the same time not making too big of a deal out of it.
Those are my two cents - just be aware of the moment, and depending on the DA they might prefer one way over the other, just don't mock them in anyway!
Especially for a DA not doing the work, this is alot of thinking before talking when they won't even do half the work for any other attachment. Been there.... Not to mention they will still often get defensive, deflects, feel like their a victim
Thank you for the notes! Great job!😁
I love you
I miss you
I care about you
I forgive you
Gone....
What's kind of sad is that this is a helpful video that some people will use. What's even more sad is that there's a lot of us in the comments that have no self respect towards ourselves and feel emotionally conflicted between staying with this person or leaving them.
Correct
Wow I wish I knew "what is the future" was so triggering before I scared my DA and he abruptly broke up, panicked, walked away and is now justifying why we shouldn't be together. After 2 years of dating I was shocked by the lack of effort to fight to stay and we were happy like a day ago.
Super helpful! I think I’m currently dating an avoidant. My late husband was a DA. I’m FA. I know now why it took us to six years to get to the alter. Fifteen years of beautiful partnership before cancer took him away.
Thats Awesome❤
You sound really happy with your past DA, and you also sound patient, which I respect. I really like a girl who might be DA or have tendencies, and unlike so many of the commentors on here, I am not angered because of the pace. She didn't force me to catch feelings, I liked her on my own. I take responsibility for the fact I like her a lot and that she has these things going on. Not tryna sound corny, but I'm willing to be patient and see what can happen. I accept the risk of getting hurt over time, it is not easy. But, really like her and don't wanna miss an opportunity that could be really different.
I would say before doing the work the most triggering statement was “what are you feeling?” Now I would say one of the things that still might trigger me a bit is “tell me everything” but apart from that its nothing else is really that triggering now! But anyways very accurate content as always!
It just sounds like avoidants just have no idea how to be with another person.
That's probably exactly it. Without having had good relationships modeled for them, I think they just literally don't know how to do it.
Perhaps they instinctively know exactly what to say or do so as to dismiss their partner and wreck a stable relationship
It legit took 2 of my best friends modelling normal behaviour over years for me to figure it out
@@sunbeam9222may be it did for him too. I lost him though
After watching many videos, I realize that I must've triggered my DA so much while having no idea and here I was feeling triggered as if he was doing something wrong. I'll never forget the first time I asked him what he's looking for and if he sees progressing into something more longterm. He was stuttering and looked scared out of his mind. You would've thought I proposed to him or something. 🤣 We're still dating, but he needs to feel like we're coasting with no pressure. This took me a long time to understand and I didn't like it as my past has shown when men didn't want to commit it means they're keeping they're options open. I knew him for a couple of decades before we started dating and he's not about that, but I was triggered anyway. In the end, this is the longest I've ever dated anyone and we're doing good! We just had to learn each other.
Being in a relationship with a DA felt like I threw myself into a fire, it’s like all my belongings were burning down in the fire, and I tried to grab and save what I could without being burned up too. The burns weren’t worth anything I recovered
Love this video. Even if not in a relationship with a DA, the skill of communicating/reframing in a loving, positive manner is so valuable in general. Personal growth! Thank you, Thais!
I think you forgot "I love you" - sure fire way to trigger a DA into panic mode and exit the relationship lol
I gave a xmas present to my DA and he was on panic mode lol 😂
@Flagirl1985 I'm a fearful avoidant who loves being told that.lol
🤣💯
I love everyone here haha 😂
My DA has spontaneously said “I love you,” several times in person and several times in voicemails, but when I tried to start ending our phone conversations with “I love you,” he didn’t reciprocate, and he laid low for a few days. So now I’m not sure if I should reciprocate his “I love you”s or not!!! ???
It’s almost like dealing with a split personality! 😢
JC... this is too much catering to their faults! I've spent 19 years with one, and had no idea they were such a turn-off. I'm an INFJ, and anxious to boot... this "shallowness" is SO not my style. He always said he'd never be able to find the depth that we had, but I was thinking, "If ONLY I could've gotten to the level of depth I preferred." I ended up with him having a 2 month "emotional affair" with my niece. 19 years shot. All the effort; all the bending; all the sacrifices. I'm SO grateful we never had children together! Human ones, anyway.
i always appreciate the communication videos. i think there is much to learn about proper phrasing, regardless of attachment style.
The first and 2nd ones would’ve probably triggered me the most when I was more DA. Glad to see I’m making progress with healing myself thanks to your courses 🥰💕
Thanks for sharing that Noella. Happy to hear about your progress!
-PDS team member
How has your progress been Noella?
Honestly Thais, I’m so grateful for you. Thank you.😊
I'm struggling to continue moving forward with a DA. It's amazing, and draining. Literally no in-between. Not sure how much longer I can go, but I don't want to let go either. Literally driving myself crazy
I totally agree! Amazing and draining if they deactivate and pull away and you’re clueless if they will come back
I had a very similar experience. She was so amazing but I just couldn’t figure out who she was, what she actually wanted etc. I didn’t work out. Miss her a lot but probably for the better.
Love this. I'm FA & hubby is DA. I didn't expect anything off of him when we first started. Never asked where we were going, because I didn't want to be let down. lol. But he let me know when he was ready to make the next move throughout the course of our relationship. He was very upfront that he was dismissive, lol so it made me less fearful but I'm avoidant of conversations like this. Even now, I think about it all sometimes, but don't say it until I find out he's been planning it as I'm thinking about it, & he opens the conversation. Lol. Sometimes I question if he can read my mind. 😂
I love this! Thank you for sharing!
This is love
After beating my head with a DA, it's not worth it. If they aren't willing to change(they more than likely aren't!), ultimately, you'll get tired of dealing with their nonsense and always having to bend to accommodate them and have to walk on eggshells around them. Not worth it.
Couldn't agree more! What a waste of time to try make them feel comfortable and not hurt their feelings and not cause them to flee. We all have pain and we can all choose to face it and do the hard work to heal, they aren't special enough to sacrifice our sanity.
I just signed up last night for reprogramming as a AP! I feel like I've gone crazy this week with feelings of replacement and abandonment, and I feel like it's now or never
Run.......and don’t look back!
Thais and PDS, this is so incredibly helpful and hopeful, I’m so excited to implement communication tools like these with my loved ones. Being able to lead and connect better in this way really excites and empowers me!
I listened to the fearful avoidant things to never say video and I thought ugh! But listening to this one as a DA I think, yes of course. Hahahaha... I love seeing how we are all different and how you help us figure out how to support each other. Can't wait to take the scripts course. Thx Thais
Love this series. It's very helpful!
PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON DA’S AND ALCOHOLISM
This would be great. Some call them creature comforts.
A lot of these things have me doing face palms , but in a good way if that’s possible haha. I’m so glad I’m learning NOW instead of later or never, but I wish I had learned this years ago! It’s never too late! I can’t wait for the FA one!!
I reckon this applies to every attachment style. Not just DA. I really dislike broad and vague open ended loaded questions like “what’s in the future” or “what are you feeling. “. I’m not DA. But these kinds of questions are too broad and vague for any attachment style in the early phases of dating. Specificity is vital.
As a FA leaning A, I would say these do not apply to every attachment style. I love when my partner asks me "what are you feeling" and "what's is the future." Even in the early dating stages, it makes me feel like they are rally trying to "see" me. Maybe if you feel strongly about these questions you have a bit of DA in you..? Something to ponder...
@@frankie9953 no DA really in me. I just don’t think “what is the future” is a question that a secure person would ask in the early stage of dating. It’s too broad and vague and abdicates responsibility to the other person to provide the structure of the response. Obviously the context makes a huge difference. But if someone was going to talk about the future as a secure person it would be a much deeper and more safe conversation.
What are you feelings is not an open ended question. Its a pretty straight forward question
@@NinteddyRose it is actually an open ended question. It’s also broad and possibly loaded. If someone can’t offer what they feel about something themselves, then asking someone else is a loaded question. Of someone asked me “what are you feeling?” In the early stages of dating without offering what they were feeling, it’s loaded. Saying “I really like you. “ is a straight forward statement. “I’d like to spend more time together” is a straight forward statement of a secure person. “Would you like to spend more time together?” is a straight forward question. Not “what are you feeling?” … do you see the difference? One is assertive and assured, the other is insecure.
@@MellowBellow1
My bad, its definitely open ended, and depending on the context, it could be loaded. But generally asking someone what they are feeling in most situations is definitely not a loaded question. I ask my DA partner what or how she's feeling all the time to make sure we're good and she either gives a me a straight forward direct answer and thanks me for checking in or she'll state that shes unsure and will let me know when she really knows how she feels.
I cant naturally communicate like that...reframing in the moment doesnt work for me strangly. Very helpful video...
Honestly the comments are more therapeutic then the video to a degree😅 Reading everyone else’s responses has me feeling more sane and normal. So it’s pretty much a universal experience with people who date dismissive avoidant’s. Walking on eggshells, and always trying to please an “emotionless robot”. So sad, but so true.. The way they discard and dismiss is just absolutely brutal.. I’m almost avoidant myself now lol.
but do you see how that works? because of your personal experiences, you're feeling more avoidant. that's exactly how avoidants end up avoidant...they were exposed to people whose behaviors shaped their attachment style. people like to villainize avoidants without having empathy for how they got that way.
@@leah-7011 Oh no I have empathy for them. And by me saying I’m almost avoidant myself, I just avoid people. And relationships all together. I’m fine alone for now lol. So I don’t use my trauma to further traumatize other individuals. So as I empathize with avoidants, I don’t sympathize with them. Nonetheless, I’m actually working on myself. Very few avoidants ever even turn their focus in words.
@@leah-7011 the difference is other attachment styles are willing to work on themselves and be self reflective. DAs could care less about how they impact others & also have no desire to self evaluate even at the cost of losing a loved one.
I always find comments people's direct experience helpful . I'm just noticed DA blocked me. Even though we spoke nicely and there was no argument
The dating scene is a mess. It's a sea of dysfunction with unhealed people in an instant gratification based hookup culture. When you've healed you'll make better choices. It starts with hardballing on the first phone call or meeting.
The internet is full of wounded people that want casual relationships. Dates sites and social media. Jonathan Aslay's comment is that date sites are a form of prostitution.
Spot The Wrong Guy (Jonathan Aslay)
Excellent dating and relationship information for all ages.
Accepting ownership. We are all a common denominator. There is victim consciousness and victor consciousness. Date smart. Choose wisely.
Evolved people. ❤️
We've been together for about 5 months now. It's been very... Up and down, because I am FA and he has triggered me to lean more anxious.
He says he generally starts feeling love around a year together, which is painful for me as I've already started falling in love with him (which is terrifying in and of itself for me). But I haven't been pressuring him to say it and I haven't said it to him so I don't risk scaring him away. He says if he felt he was wasting either of our time and there was no chance, he'd end it. Which I'm assuming means he feels.... Something? I mean, he acts like he cares in a lot of ways and he's been so affectionate at times... But we're getting near to the 6 month mark and... He doesn't love me, and it feels like for every intimate moment we have together, I have to deal with him distancing for a day or two
Is it worth it to try and stick this out in the hopes he will finally love me? When things are good, they're really good. But when there is conflict and/or one or both of us start to deactivate, it's so painful
Dear, when the man is getting emotionally close with you, his estrogen levels go up, which is triggering his female side. In order for his testosterone level to go up, he has to go away from you and do his manly things to get his testosterone level back up so he can be more loving towards you when he comes back to you. This is normal for men to so this. I pray that this explanation helps you!
@@msBbee-oq7im The deactivation is explained by his attachment style. Rather than him being a man. If that were the case then anxiously attached men would need distance from their partner when getting too close. A secure man will also take space but it will be from a perspective of balance and interdependence not because they have gotten too close to their partner and are having a vulnerability hangover.
My advice to anyone who is in this is to focus on yourself and your healing, and you will start to see how you will put your needs as important and also you will become less attracted to DA partners. I was AP/FA who has been a DA man magnet because they treated me like I treated my self. Since becoming more secure, I dated a DA man and it no longer felt good to be with someone who treated me with dismissiveness and avoidance. I stopped seeing him, when it became uncomfortable to me. The truth is that no matter what anyone tells you, you won't leave until the situation becomes unbearable to you. It's a harsh truth, but it's true none the less. That's how it worked for me and many others I have seen in the school. If he is not willing to put in the work the relationship will fail sooner or later. How much more are you willing to hurt? That is a question only you can answer foe yourself. I wish you the best and hope you can have compassion for your self more than for others outside of you. 🙏
@@cappygurl I tried dating a much more severely avoidant guy last year. Like, he could easily go a week without talking. He may have been a narcissist actually. Still unsure, as he never let me inside far enough for me to tell and I didn't stick around long enough to find out 😅 But, I eventually ended it after a few months. Still, that situation left scars for sure.
This new guy I've been with is much more genuine though. I understand that his need for space is because he is such an independent person and really does need it to recharge and feel like himself. And it's never more than a day, which is doable. I trust him a surprising amount for how short it's been, and despite my abandonment wounds being triggered. He IS trying in a lot of ways, which I can recognize when I'm not in the middle of feeling triggered. There has been some definite progress (even if it's been painful at times), and when I tell him my needs explicitly like Thais suggests, he's gotten better about trying to meet them to the best of his ability (and if he can't, he will be upfront and let me know that it's not within his capabilities, which I appreciate). It's just... Very slow, I guess. That's what gets me. Sometimes it feels like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. And it's confusing to me that he acts like he truly cares (and tells me he cares every now and then), but has said he doesn't love me yet when the topic of love came up in a conversation the other day. I guess actions are more important than words. But still. Ouch
But, I appreciate your concern. I certainly am working on caring as much for myself as I do other people. And my partner is encouraging me to do this as well, which I appreciate and recognize he's doing out of genuine care for me, not just self-absorption
I have been with a DA just over 6 months. We mostly hang on the weekends and has always been great times. But during the week we don’t text and most of the time I reaches out to make plans to meet. At a point I started to doubt as if he was really interested in me at all. We never talked about us before, So I had to have the talk with him. As it turns out he had feelings for me more than I expected. It was quite a shock to me as I thought he’d break up with me. The point of sharing my story is I needed to ask him for my own sanity, so I prioritized myself and just fortunate he was open and aware of himself and we are able to get back on the right track. I wish you good luck but approach with love and compassion.
I feel that more DA's would rather be engaged in their "fantasies" within their phones than having a real relationship..They are just as stressed trying to engage with a " healthy secure person " as we are with them..We expect them to be "present and tuned in". They are living in a world of disconnection and perpetual loneliness , while we are wanting the full experience of intimacy and connection . Secure persons are best with each other otherwise you better book in with a therapist.
Thank you for these precious advices that go beyond relationship with an avoidant partner and can be considered as elementary wise and nonviolent forms of respectful communication with any person we might be interacting with without attempting to control them.
It is nobody’s business how I am feeling or exploring everything in my life, unless I am consulting a professional I have freely chosen for help, something no romantic partner can provide. No one has a right to pass a judgment on my choices and behaviours but is free to offer a loving suggestion
No one knows what the future holds for any of us but we can all share our present intuition and choices and admit that they might change in time and according to oncoming events.
As my DA taught me, only idiots never change their opinion. Their «wounds» are a precious insight into the reality of life in this world and they teach us humility and the art of letting go of trying to control others.
Well said
You are a prophet!!
Seems to !e they are the opposite of what they want. They want trust but not give it..They want genuine and honest but not give it. They want love and connection but not make the effort.. I do not see it possible to get through
If somone doesnt show they care..thats a pretty good god damn sign they dont
I really enjoy and am learning so much about myself through your videos. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing, Thais
Amazing! It helps tremendously to understand the attachment styles and communication. Source of many of my issues with SO. Thanks for this clear way of handling how to manage this.
1Thinking vs. feel
2Shame wounds here's what we could do to improve.
3That:s embarrassing wants to be accepted will shut down. That's hard.
4 tell me what you think about x.
5 ask what is the future ( specifics about future retirement specifics) or they will feel overwhelmed. See. Niklas below
Thanks for sharing this! My DA guy just sent me a text about not being able to talk over the Xmas weekend, and even though he had already verbally told me a few times, it really rubbed me the wrong way. The tone seemed so cold and factual. But from his point of view he was just reminding me of his unavailability so I wouldn’t get stressed out. Ironic!! He is really warm in person but he’s a TERRIBLE texter! Someone needs to invent an app for that, lol.
I also wanted to add that my DA guy has been able to say “I love you” spontaneously… and he definitely is better about initiating the I love you’s than reciprocating them.
I’m okay with not being in phone or video contact every day. But my main struggle is to find a way to keep in base level contact on the days when he needs to recharge and not talk or meet up. If anyone has any ideas not based on texting, please share! 😊
DA here, maybe send him just one short message, telling him that you care about him and that you enjoy the time with him. No questions, no specific remarks and not every day.
My heart would melt ^^
100% with you on the texting issues!! I'll say that after learning and understanding the DA in your life on a deeper/more intimate/closer/etc level...you begin realizing those initial "cold" or short sounding texts aren't meant that way. It's just a quick, usually to-the-point message, but doesn't mean they're upset/angry/etc with you! I myself am a very detailed texter, so I've just learned to adjust not only my texting style, but my expectations over text. As we progress, I may gently introduce some suggestions for text communication, but it seems that understanding your person is really key on this point.
This helped me a lot.thankyou.
Wow. If only I saw this video a day earlier. Last night she got super upset with me for asking a couple of times throughout the night "How are ya feeling?" My intention was not to monitor her mood, but to just communicate a little bit and check in because I like some reassurance every once in a while. Seems obvious where I went wrong now. I hope she forgives me. My apology was really sincere and I reiterated that I trust her. I hate upsetting someone i care about, especially accidentally.
I love your outfit Thais😍😍
Lol. I love how triggering this video was. 😁 thanks for being awesome.
Oh No! I had no idea! I always wanted to know what she was feeling! I was frustrated when I asked How are you? Then I'd hear intellectual stuff I'm looking for emotional depth that I KNOW is there... in words though. Sigh...
And then the critical parts... though I didn't say they did things wrong.. I don't like using that word... I like the positive reframes.
When asked how we're feeling it can be interpreted it as "how are you?", so "I'm good" seems the most logical response. Because if we really say want we're feeling the person could lash out or disappear. So this is just way safer; we don't rock your 🚢 and we can keep things on an even keel
@@ashton1952 I hear that is the fear of vulnerability. I suppose its how its communicated. Yes, i hear you that the shutting down and silent treatment is protection and feels safe.
There is always a risk in sharing how one feels. I do it all the time. It takes courage even if it seems to come with ease. Theres a risk for anyone being vulnerable.
I would share what hurt and cry and if it was caused by the DA they were cold. If it was caused by another they would still look at it intellectually and I'd be faced with someone who was distant in that. They did not express warmth or concern or care. Just intellectual reasons why they ignore one and not another. Its painful to share something very vulnerable and be ignored or minimized. Or face cold responses. I know myself as someone who is compassionate and knows how to give empathy. Warmth and concern. And curiosity. The DA needs this modeled so they can know how to express it themselves. The very thing that is being avoided can be what is needed for healing. Also, why is the anger of raising vocal volume worse than quietly cutting words of insult and demeaning?
Lashing out can be frustration of another being so much in their head and not their heart, lack of understanding, and sense of overwhelm, lack of support or doing it alone. Needing the DA to step up and show up. But if there is calm curiosity with the partner of the DA and the DA is willing to practice... even sharing the inner deeper Thinking process. Share with me your inner processes of decision making you're doing inside about yourself or me, things that impact us. Sharing thoughts about conflict areas is good too. Basically, let's look at this together. If there is part of the relationship that doesn't feel sustainable, get curious about solutions and shifting the dynamic instead of being defeated and giving up. Let's try this, BOTH of us doing our part. Perhaps asking the DA What do you need? Is easier for them? But I'd like to know about other needs besides space/distance. Where is the growth or repair if DA doesn't get real about identifying and sharing. They may be surprised that their partner softens when they soften and showers them with love or has new understanding. Could even preface it by saying "I want to share with you how I feel AND I'm afraid that if I do that right now, you are going to Lash out." That expression of the feeling of being afraid, which is often the same feeling others have, can give a chance to be mindful. If both expresses a fear and agree to Not respond with anger. DA I know has Alot of repressed anger. So say it "I've been feeling angry about this. I am needing understanding." People who care are not Always going to lash out. I often wanted to get quiet and mutually vulnerable. Without robot responses.
@@ShimmerSoulSong DA here and i think you described the problem quite well. And youre right about the DA needing closeness and Empathy modeled.....as for me i often feel like it is a language that i dont understand or speak. Like i dont know what to do with the warmth another person gives me and i have absolutely no clue on how to show it/ give it back. like a friend trying to just look at me/make eyeconatct because they want to connect....i genuenly dont know how to act in that situation! its like im playing a role on a stage and suddenly i ran out of script. Or someone trying to make smalltalk....i dont know what to do with that. Also with the needs. if someone would ask me what i need or want ....my usual response would be that i dont need anything. I genuenly dont know what i could/should want in a situation/relationship....or even on a vacation...i dont want anything, and i dont need anything, why should i? the thought that someone has to do something they dont want to or do extra work for me just feels like too much. Space/distance is litteraly the only need i can pinpoint. overall im feeling verymusch defeated when it comes to relationships, it feels overwhelming and something i have no control over...something i just dont know how to do.
@@fireshine4105 my heart goes out to you. I hear you. Hm. Maybe you could try some of tools Thais has and do baby steps bit by bit.
It sounds like it's much of what comes with close connection is foreign to you.
As someone working on transforming myself as FA, and someone who has been a caretaker of others for a long time, I was puzzled the first time when someone asked me what I needed, in my 20s. She actually asked me, as. Priestess In a Goddess Temple,"How may I serve you?". And I was like Wha? What do you mean?
I was just open and BEing there.
So she was asking me to look closer at myself with attention and identify and name and then practice asking.
As resource that may be helpful for you is the list of Feelings and Needs that come with most NVC work.
Sigh. I can guess some of the feelings and needs you conveyed here.
I think that some people might not push or continue to try with you if you give a vibe of give me space. It's a delicate dance of approach.
Have you seen videos where people come across an emaciated abandoned dog? It's scared or honestly baring clinging to life. And they pick it up or in some cases if the dog can move they work on earning its trust with soft word tones and food, hoping it will come near instead of running off. In many cases, perhaps because of Dog's inherent nature is to connect and share touch and play and love and joy, somewhere in there it starts to come out. With patience and tenacity on the part of the human who is believing in it.
In time the dog gains weight and strength and desire to connect and play. It comes back to life and sometimes they are quirky and still have some issues but are way better off. Practicing.
Humans are much more complex than dogs.
When I first met a person I didn't know was DA, I "saw" alot about this person. And so even though I was given the cold shoulder many times and that hurt, I did not give up. I gave space and time after an invite was declined, initially.
3 weeks go by. They decide to challenge themselves for growth and started saying yes to my invitations to get out into the world.
They generally still had a strict routine and continued to do gaming which was different than the gaming they had addiction to before which they agreed kept them from developing in some real life areas. RPGs writing are different than video games.
The days that we hung out, they put their trust in me with spontaneity and loose plans. I am trustworthy and protective and sought to meet needs. They would ask for acts of service like being taken grocery shopping.
We had a blend of variety and repetition. Lots of novelty which we both loved.
Doing things. Hikes and making meals together and unlike many DAs this person is affectionate. So slowly we warmed up to trying platonic cuddles. Along with hugs and that was an easy flow and common. This person liked conversation, but shared in a way of saying they needed to know what's happening in the world or books and share from there rather than talking about feelings and needs. They read alot. But when I presented them with things that I thought would help areas of friction between us, like the Feelings and Needs stuff, they would rather read about history and fantasy stuff and anything besides what I was requesting. I'd ask to please watch videos of empaths or HSPs so they could understand me better.
And the DA was a very deep feeler! I know because of the opera and classical symphony music and video game music and shamanic journey music we listened to when napping or cuddling. It was the best.
They looked to me as mentor and I looked at us as friends. But when it came to me needing them to be considerate and respond with empathy, it seemed there was judgement or just not understanding.
So when I read your experience, I I feel alot compassion for that level of disconnect. It also makes me wonder about traumas you may have suffered? I mean, neglect is a trauma.
Well if you are following Thais videos then to me that points to the part of you that's calling out to heal.
I think it could be helpful if you were presented with a list of options about what you need. Whether it's a vacation or other thing. Really tuning into your body. Get in touch with your body and emotional heart. Really doing things with your body.
Since water is an element related to emotions, I would encourage you to be in water. At a gym pool maybe. Swim. Or walk in a pool. Feel your whole body.
If you are Alive you are having some Needs met. Sleep. Food. Think abt what you like and are drawn to. What else do you like to connect with? Animals? Nature? Look at the way you relate and what they mean and how other living beings respond to you.
You are not a burden by having needs from others. It is common for people to help each other get needs met. Search for Lists of Feelings and Needs and read those. Get familiar and maybe you will be like Ohhh yeah, I get that. Idk.
You can still have autonomy and space while also learning to connect. Be out in public in a park. Witness people. Chat with strangers in the store. Baby steps.
@@ShimmerSoulSong hey thanks for the indepth answer! Yeah I'm usually the one making sure everyone is happy... Except if they want to cuddle haha. I will definitely be looking into the things you suggested although I don't think that I will be able to execute on them fully. I already realized that a lot of things are missing from my life that could be considered important needs (art for example) and I will have to put them off for another year or so due to life circumstances... But as you said baby steps, so I guess doing some connection work with my body might be a start. I feel like the whole topic is so complex. I did take Thais Da course but I found it a bit overwhelming/confusing with all the things to work on, without a Clear starting point. So I think at this point I'll just randomly choose the body work as there is not really a lot of places I could connect with anything or get these needs met that I mentioned.
I have a Motto in my life : do what you want as long as you don't hurt me ! And when it comes to DA . The only way the won't hurt you is by not being together in the first place . Sorry for my brutal words
The best thing to say to a DA: see you after you've done the work.
😂😂😂
💯😄
🤣🤣🤣
Except I’m not going to do the work, so see you never. And I wouldn’t feel bad or miss you later coz I’d feel utterly justified.
@@sunbeam9222 oh I feel plenty. I feel plenty of anger, fear and resentment when someone wants to rush me into feeling something for them instead of just accepting that I go at my own pace. DAs have plenty of feelings, but you’re not entitled to them. You sound awfully selfish.
Would this apply to non-romantic relationships?
Not to be insensitive here but if this is a romantic relationship, you should be who you are and observe the way you feel around the person starting from the very beginning. If you are an emotional person that needs that in return, then just let the DA go and find someone that fits your needs
I hear you! But ultimately This isn’t about not being who you are though, it’s about being who you are with more upgraded strategies to connect with your loved one (these things help us grow and become more balanced and healthily interpersonal too!)
I totally agree. In my very very long time marriage my spouse totally shut down a very big avoidant. So he is divorcing me because he can't or will no longer relate on a emotional level chooses to keep carrying his baggage.
Hey, I'm a DA, and not all DA's are like that! :) I was in one of work groups in Thais's course and one girl called me "a very conscious DA". I need my space and I am slow with feelings but I make sure that my partner understands that, so I will for example text them in advance like "I have a busy weekend because I need to help my family, so I won't be able to text you a lot" or "I am not sure about my feelings yet, but I am sure I want to go on with this relationship", I have never let my partners wait for my messages and leave them in the dark, but if they can't accept my pace and pressure me into feeling more than I can at the moment, that will cause me huge anxiety and push me away from the person.
@@pahuljica7133 These work well
I am saying that you should be how you want to be in a relationship and find someone that has the same wants and desires. Instead of waiting until you fall for someone and then trying to get them to reciprocate
Dismissive avoidance women are a total bummer. I just spent 10 difficult years married to one. Wish I knew all this a decade ago.
Its too overwhelming, i got to learn all these things i triggered him with after he left. I really wish people come with manuals. I really wish to mend things with him and do everything the right way. If only he would trust me again and be open to give this another try. Its not fair losing someone because i didn't know better
I love this ❤️
What is the "Power Struggle Stage" of a relationship?
Shouldn’t they do for you what they ask you for?
She's describing my dad. We don't have much to talk about, he makes poor decisions, makes everyone worse off then he does not want to talk about it.
Yoooo!!! I was so mad at the first question 🤣😂🤣😂. Even fully understanding the context and that I WAS NOT actually being asked this 😅😅😅 didnt matter. 😫😫😫😫
So for #5 how do you ask it?
I never want to date a dismissive avoidant EVER AGAIN!!!!
It's hard to put into words how wholeheartedly I agree with you on this!!
Ty so much for this. Is it ok to ask if he can sometimes show a little affection before I do. And how to ask it we are togeather for three years I care a lot for him he is a DA ty
OMG DA's are down right selfish! I'm sick and tired of hearing that we have to literally walk on egg shells, feel sorry for them and always watch what we say to them. My ex was a DA with narcissistic traits..All about him. With all that said, I will never give a DA my full attention or time. I'm so done with these types of people!! Oh, and a majority of them will not change, not do they want to. Poor pitiful you!!
Stay with what you can cope with then. These people have been through traumas and really don't need to be judged either. Let's do what we can to make the world a kinder place
Rude and shortsighted comment. Hope you feel better these days
@@trash3570 I'm great and doing my own thing..3years 3 months sober. Yes I was pretty hard against DA's..at that time that's how I felt..at least 24 people liked my comment..they understand. Why do you call yourself trash?? Hmm 🤔
@@clairesanders1742 you can psycho analyze my name or you can admit this comment was rude. Either way, 24 people agreeing with you doesn’t mean what you said is good. And before you assume, I’m not DA
@@trash3570 Ok
How do you do couples counseling with you? Lol I hear you talk about couples you've worked with. Do you offer that??
DA seems to have overlap with BPD/NPD..cluster B personalities in their resistance to get help/therapy
Give them what they want and walk away forever. These people will ruin your life.
Yes! 100% agree! They want space? Give them all the space they want.
How do you know what your partner's attachment style is?
DAs should not be in relationships period, I can’t imagine being married to one of these people , I bet it’s like being married to a wall. Nobody should have to walk on eggshells for them either to keep them happy, DA does nothing to make their partner feel safe or loved even😣
Choose a different attachment style, and make sure you raise your own children so they don't become like this. DA's never started out deciding to do this it's been a way of survival, do not judge just be thankful; could've been you
Basically it’s giving in to their demands verbally or non verbally. It’s painful when the leave without notice and stonewall you. So so painful. Yet so loving when a DA is around.
@@ashton1952 no children for me thanks. I think we all are grown adults and so are DAs but they continue to make excuses for the way they treat others while other attachments are told to work on themselves, DAs are continuously excused and enabled.
@@lafemmeprada8 DAs have a lot of covert narcissist ways as well.
This is at least the 3rd video where you've been demonizing DAs in the comments. Have you considered getting help for the wounds you're still holding on to? It'll probably be more constructive than continuing to throw tantrums in a place where people come to better themselves.
What’s the course ??
Never say anything because it will all trigger them 😂
Basically
A DA Is a child and must be pandered to. They are incapable of selfless love .
I guess don’t buy them a hallmark card dealing with feelings or romance… it might make them feel overwhelmed.
It’s ok to love and be loved.
It’s ok to want to be wanted and to want .
Read the 5 love languages and love your partner how they receive it.
It’s not complicated.
It’s ok to be transparent and vulnerable with your partner.
It’s normal!
Otherwise , greeting card companies would be out of business.
It’s not a DA specific thing, no insecurely attached type is capable of selfless love.
Watching this….I honestly feel like me, as the DA, is too much work….I doubt my partner is going to tailor themselves to that extent. Ugh.
I'm there now. And I'm feeling it's not worth the effort.
IF THERE ANYONE OUT THERE TO HAVE A ANSWER I WAS DATING A DA BUT SHE HAD A PROBLEM WITH ALCOHOL.. OUT OF A WEEK 2 NIGHTS SHE WOULD TRY TO FORGET THE PROBLEM.. I KNOW ITS NOT MY FAULT BUT I DID LOVE HER AND CARED BUT I WAS WALKING ON EGG SHELLS
Non of these work, they will avoid the entire conversation no matter how its presented....thats what they do.
Don't say it? Ok I'll say it.
Yeah that was fun.
How about they take accountability for their hostile, explosive reactivity, rather than having to rewrite the English language.
Egg shells. Egg shells. Egg shells.....
Simply don't go there.