Imagine if Game Sonic acted like this. Man he would rip Knuckles a new one for for constantly getting tricked by Eggman and Tails for well not doing anything during Sonic Forces
@@JohnnyVector You know out of all the Sonic’s Game Sonic has the most reason to act like his Fleetway counterpart considering his friend’s behaviors and well slightly flanderized personality’s in the games before Sonic Frontiers in certain moments like Tails arguing with Sonic in Sonic Lost World for example
@@JohnnyVector. Or to make Sonic simular to his fleetway counterpart? Also could you make a video about why Sonic Underground knuckles is the Best depiction of that red echidna?
@@hattoripool1533. It's sega's fault for hiring writers who known Jack Squat about sonic and fans in places blind acceptance. For example if knuckles' voice sounded younger like everyone else none would think of him as"KNUCKLEHEAD".
Fleetway Sonic could be a jerk, but there were some moments where he shows a kinder side and shows that he’s a nice guy deep down. Also, he’s still a hero and he still fights bad guys and saves people. And in the end of the series, he becomes nicer and starts acting more like his mainstream counterpart.
I actually really love the different attitudes Sonic is given, the fact many are considered "non canon" means it harmlessly adds some variety and spice to what can otherwise feel a bit stale.
I have always liked when we get different interpretations of Sonic, like Movie Sonic being more playful, Prime Sonic being more childish, or Boom Sonic just being sassy. Also, I think Fleetway Sonic acting like a jerk is so funny. You wouldn't expect that from Sonic. It cracks me up!
I kind of love this version of Sonic. A more brash and agressive version Sonic that is not afraid to speak his mind, but is often using that as a mask to his insecurities and feelings. It almost makes me curious to what have been like If Shadow was in the British comics and met him.
If Sonic is this mean, Shadow would probably stampede anytime someone breathes near him Either that or theyd just make him socially awkward but proud of his power instead of angry, just for variety
I sometimes wonder if maybe it's also a reflection of British culture. It's been a VERY long time since I last read Sonic the Comic (I think I stopped around 96/97 but I can't remember) but whenever I think of what Sonic says to his friends, I think of the "ribbing" I'd give and get back from some of mine. Granted, much like Sonic, some times the ribbing would be taken and recipricated in good faith, other times it feels more like it's punching down when they don't.
When I started reading the Fleetway comics, after having finished all of the Archie stuff, that was quite the jarring change, especially Sonic himself not to mention all the other differences coming at this from an American perspective. At first I really hated this version of Sonic, but over time I came to understand what they were going for and really kind of ended up enjoying him in a weird way. He is still not my favorite version of the character, but I don't hate him any more.
As someone who collected the Beano, I can confirm this. I still remember when they got rid of Dennis's catapult, toned down his bullying and they got shit on for it. Looking back, British comics were hilarious, but the characters were awful, awful people.
Yeah you're right, I recall hearing that they renamed some characters and got criticised for it? I guess sometimes you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
@@JohnnyVector I know my reply is late, and the example I'm giving isn't relevant to Sonic or the Beano, but your explanation for British culture and context puts me in mind of The Inbetweeners. Inbetweeners was must-watch TV during my teenage years in high school. Everyone was quoting it, treating it like the cure for cancer, etc. When I first watched the show, I didn't like it. My first impression was that it was just mean-spirited and depressing. But then I watched it again and paid close attention to Will, Jay, Neil and Simon and realised that they're all dickheads who bring it on themselves.
I'd quite like to see the Fleetway, IDW and pre-Flynn Archie versions of Sonic all meet up, just to watch the chaos of their interactions with each other... IDW Sonic: "We'll defeat Eggman with the power of friendship!" Fleetway Sonic: "Blech. Am I really this much of a sappy wimp in your universe? And what's that other me doing over there with the wolf girl?" Archie Sonic (to Whisper): "Hey, baby. What's your sign...?"
Honestly, this is ALL I wanted after learning there are 3 wildly different Sonic interpretations out there. How do they compare and contrast. So thanks
@NES I think it could work. Have Sonic initially act like that but as time goes on he slowly starts becoming like the Sonic from the games as he slowly matures and warms up to his friends
ive always seen fleetway sonic as, well, accurate to real life hedgehogs. they're easily frightened and will hiss and pop at whatever they deem a threat
I can relate to being an insecure dickhead with the world on his shoulders and an inability to express yourself to an unreasonable amount, especially as a much less abrasive and angry adult. it's honestly a nice feeling seeing Sonic come into his thirties alongside me, more empathetic and caring than he used to be, mirroring my own growth as a person. Sonic as a character is almost exactly a month younger than me, so it almost feels like we grew up together.
1. Awesome video as always! 2. I was actually kind of attracted to Jerk-y sonic, I love seeing the early history of characters, where they haven't been solidified just yet, and seeing such a wildly different take on the character is interesting!
He's a kid that always wins and is extremely powerful, it's understandable to translate that to someone who atleast firstthought's into more aggressive tones. I think a version of that was always somewhere in sonic, where casual or just in burst with the 'shut up tails' and such, laid back living his life in love and freedom is a proper character growth.
I agree. He's the only one in his group with a legitimate super power, so he doesn't need to take any situation as seriously as his friends do. It's only when he isn't in control of the situation that he stops teasing them and just focuses on succeeding.
That's an accurate statement of Fleetway Sonic and it works considering how the story handles later on where the first time his win caused a death of a friend.
From what I’ve read of Fleetway while I think jerk sonic a bit interesting he could’ve been a bit LESS of a jerk at times. Like his growth felt really slow and not fully fleshed out.
i'll admit i never read fleetway, but one thing i love so much about spinoffs was seeing new takes on characters. like even day one we got 2 cartoons, adventures and satam which had completely opposite tones and both worked fantastically despite both versions of sonic, tails and robotnik being completely different characters (well maybe less so sonic he was always the 90's cool kid stereotype, not 1 dimensional but that was his surface level personality in both) i really liked movie sonic being a socially awkward shut in or boom sonic being sassy bitch. i do get why people hate mean spirited characters, but it's clear his mean spiritedness in fleetway is a character flaw which does get called out and developed much like in the games him rushing head first without a plan is also a frustraighting issue be it falling into eggmans trap in the unleashed intro or freeing the zeti by accident. plus some of the out of context pages are just hilarious like that one insulting tails face when he's about to be impaled, like yes he's being mean but that's clearly the joke lol.
I think of this portrayal of Sonic as a "lovable jerk", in the same vein as Bart Simpson. When it comes down to it, Sonic always does the right thing. He's just still a kid who thinks this is the "cool" way to act, hiding his feelings and being aloof.
Learning more about comics, movies and video games from Europe and Asia is always very fascinating. You realize that their cultures are so different from how it is in the United States.
Good man for explaining the whole cultural context STC falls into that younger folk and Americans simply don't get. I don't know how anyone can read the "I don't much like the look of your face" gag and get all in a fluster about it. It's banter!! It's just banter!!! 'course, it doesn't help that so many people seem to have formed their opinion based on the same half-dozen panels shared out of context on social media, and don't understand that in several, Sonic isn't just casually "being a jerk" in his usual arrogant, banterous, but not mean-hearted way, but lashing out because he's angry about something and is taking it out on someone in the heat of the moment, a pretty normal human failing.
Wow, I didn’t expect to see you here Chris (although it isn’t entirely surprising to see you here since you do have a podcast talking about the Fleetway Sonic comics, but I’m still surprised to see you comment on this in particular video).
@@JohnnyVector Let me guess what’s next. “Why is Archie Sonic a Jerk?” pointing to the scenes where he destroyed Knothole village in issue 39 and was held in court in issue 40 for it then for letting her die like he did to Amy in Sonic Riders in issue 47, Sally slapped Sonic as if he were the worst boyfriend unlike any other after he told her that he wanted to save the world instead of be her king and after that, Tails would scream at Sonic that he hates him in issue 155 as if a Nazi were better than him and then they would fight 24 issues later.
I love your videos chap. Your experiences are so close to mine and it is lovely to hear someone who talking about Sonic from the perspective of someone in the UK, and the stories and media we grew up with. STC was/is essential reading. It shaped who Sonic is for me, and my years spent pouring hours and hours over the pages were joyous throughout the entire run...
I think fleetway sonic is written brilliantly. he was always stressed, wanting to do almost everything himself, and to me seemed afraid of his friends getting hurt but not being able to express himself. he couldn't. he was the rock for them to lean on. he was Mobius' hero, i don't think he felt he COULD open up, and it clearly wore on him, and so pushed people away, hid his problems in humor, lashed out when anybody made a mistake,because they could die from messing up. top that off with the fact he'd become an invincible demon if he got too stressed. I don't think fleetway sonic is a jerk. i think he's just very human.
@@ThomasRoyBates I do. Just because you've presented a contrarian opinion, it doesn't at all equate to being more perceptive or necessarily deep thinking. Many times it just means one comes off as delusional. Sometimes things are just what they are and people are overanalyzing things. This isn't to say Sonic doesn't have nuances. But he's still a prick.
Always nice to see you bring up the Fleetway Comics. It's interpretation of Sonic certainly stands apart, so this should be an interesting dive through memory lane. 1:07 - I love how straight to the point you are with it! As noted with 2:10, there is plenty to this interpretation of Sonic. A lot of the panels or pages that get brought up when discussing or looking for Fleetway Sonic are focused on his jerk moments but those are then taken in isolation, ignoring the rest of the story, his friendlier moments, and his consistent heroics. He is a jerk, but he's almost always doing the right thing (I recall him often rejecting new people from trying to join the freedom fighters, which could be as much owed to his ego as to trying to keep said new recruit out of danger). 4:29 - Yeah, as mentioned, it's the Jerk moments that pop up these days but often the more supportive and friendlier moments get overshadowed. Fleetway Sonic was certainly flawed but in a distinct way and still a hero. 6:06 - I never did manage to read the last few issues. It is interesting to see the difference in Chaos' look here; the style screams Fleetway! 10:16 - Oh yeah, I remember the Channel Hoppers being obvious Teletubbies references. DRAT being a Space Marine reference wasn't picked up until much later (I always favoured the fantasy Warhammer). 14:10 - The dive into the background of British Comic scene was certainly nice to see. Despite being a Brit myself, I don't have much experience with it outside of Fleetway Sonic, Bananaman, and the odd comic here of there (usually through annuals/compilations than standalone).
At least in the Archie comics sonic admitted he was a jerk to tails and apologized. But I think the most mature versions of sonic Are IDW and frontiers
I think the difference with Dredd vs Fleetway Sonic is that Dredd’s consistently portrayed that as a hard-boiled hardass while Sonic was only portrayed that way in the Fleetway Comics only. The only current day equivalent we have to STC Sonic is IDW Sonic and that’s by bad writing.
*After an internal investigation, we at Monius Corporation have decided to cut ties with Sonic The Hedgehog after multiple allegations of toxic behavior and fostering a toxic work environment. We take the safety and wellbeing of our staff extremely seriously and are no longer working with Sonic.* *The Sonic The Hedgehog comic has unfortunately been cancelled but we can confirm the Amy Rose Power Hour will continue uninterrupted*
Part of it I think was the '90s Attitude' kinda style, and I dont think it was always him being an ass, I think sometimes its just him being sarcastic and snarky, a dry sense of humour for story and the reader as a product of the time. Doesn't make it right. But as well as you say he has a lot of responsibility, and he partly feels responsible for what happened to Mobius and Robotnik in StC. The pressure could get to him from time to time.
I hadn’t considered that the comics I grew up with here in UK were filled with , effectively bullies. Do you think that’s changed in recent years or is still the same? I remember reading something about Denise’s Menacing not being as cruelty orientated as it once was but I haven’t checked it out myself.
I just hope he doesn't pick on Walter and the Softies any more. It's in pretty poor taste now, plus they just seemed more fun and interesting than Dennis. I always liked Calamity James more for being a true underdog and just genuinely hilarious.
I've been a new fan to the series, hadn't watched a show, film, read any comic comic or played any game until 2021. As of today, after 140+ games, all films and shows and the IDW comics IV started the Fleetway comics. I'm saying this just to establish that I have 0 nostalgia for anything Sonic related. So far I've read all the News of the World strips (which some consider part of Fleetway's timeline considering they have the same art style), all the specials (Winter/summer specials, Sonic Mags, Knuckles one-shot etc) and I'm currently at issue 83 on the main series and I'm enjoying it for the most part. Every time they introduce a new original zone my thoughts are "Damn, wish they included this in a game, feels so good", Stone Tower Zone, The Nameless Zone, Pleasant Zone, they're all just so fun. I'm not thrilled with the stories so far but I didn't expect it to thrill me, they were clearly not SEGA's main focus in the 90s, I expect Archie will feel more for the lack of a better word epic and adventurous when I start it. Worst part about Fleetway isn't simply the characterization, it's the consistency in characterization and the off balance between Sonic's "cool" and compassionate sides. Tails is being presented as pretty pathetic for most of this run, always afraid or lost and inferior to pretty much everyone around him. His attitude changes plenty in stories like the one where he saved Tantrum Mouse for example and it seemed like he was developing as a character finally... Only for him to act the same pathetic way he used to act in the Sonic's World stories. It's a jarring inconsistency that hasn't been addressed so far. Amy and Robotnik also act pretty differently to their mainline and SatAM/Adventures counterparts but also familiar enough to not feel bastardized, I really enjoy this new take on them. Biggest improvement by far here is Knuckles, out of all the universes so far (SatAM, Fleetway, BOOM, Sonic X, mainline and SMEU) Fleetway Knuckles might be my favorite. His ethics are crystal clear, he is an echidna warrior set in protecting the Floating Island from any type of danger and preserving its zones for when his people return. He is not easily manipulated like mainline or X Knuckles, he is strong-willed and determined, he has a heart of gold extending a helping hand to everyone in need no exceptions if they ask for it. I also found him to be the funniest character of them all, his witty remarks every now and then or his interactions with Tails in the Knuckles & Tails story are pure gold. And of course there's the elephant in the room, Sonic himself. I kind of hate him, not gonna lie. He IS a jerk, it's undeniable, and those rare occasions where he does show a more likeable side he immediately offshoots it with his extremely unlikeable one (like when he visited Porker on the Floating Island just to check up on him but when he started to talk he just told him to shut up). They think that him being this way 24/7 is cool but it really ain't and every time they try to make scenes with him more emotional or grounded they fall flat on their face cause they feel like there was no buildup. I don't believe Sonic and the group are friends, no, there's barely been anything friend-like about them. Sonic almost always deserves a punch to the face.
I could never stand this version of Sonic's attitude towards Tails. The whole idea behind Sonic and Tails' relationship was that Tails was often bullied for his extra tail, but Sonic saw his potential, he was impressed that Tails could use his abnormality to keep up with him, and ultimately took him under his wing. This version of Sonic acts just as bad, if not worse, than a bully. Also, I might be wrong, but I always wondered if the writers of this comic hated Tails and were just venting their thoughts about the character through Sonic. It might sound crazy, but I remember other kids doing the same thing back in the day. I remember kids saying "Oh yeah, Sonic totally hates Tails! He thinks he's annoying and useless!" I could never stand that because Tails was one of my favourite characters.
I’ve been getting into sonic the comic recently (mainly thanks to you lol) and I love the way the characters (specifically sonic himself and knuckles) are written, I don’t really know how describe it, I just really like it
I'm glad you brought up the culture of the time because that's what people miss when analysing STC!Sonic. Friends trading insults was an extension of the idiom "keep a stiff upper lip"; to thicken the skin at worst and made in good humour at best. STC!Sonic was bog-standard for his time, and, personally, I think it was a clever twist on the whole "attitude" trend back then. Either way, criticising old media through modern sensibilities is a fool's errand.
Im definitely from the states, but I've always found the Fleetway interpretation of the comics infinitely more interesting than the original Archie run. Nice seeing these covered
I think Archie tried to do the Fleetway approach with Sonic at points but leaned way too hard into it which is why we ended up with Sega really pushing back on what outside media can get away with doing. I honestly feel like Fleetway Sonic is absolutely the way Sonic would handle death given Sonic's general free and open nature he could feel genuine regret not being able to tell Johnny that it he didn't really mean all the things he said about him
Really great video. As a kid who grew up with Sonic the Comic I never seen him as anything but a bit of a jerk. It's probably why I never got on with any of the other 90's adaptations of him. I like versions of him now a days but it's probably cos they allow him to have elements of jerkiness.
I would take this incarnation of Sonic anyday over Archie's romance obsessed version. At least there's no dumb Sonic/Sally/Mina love triangle/shipping war in the Fleetway comics. I like Fleetway's take on Sonic largely because of his flaws. It makes him easier to relate to. After all, who wouldn't be a little bit cynical and insecure from having to fight against a world conquering dictator everyday?
I would gladly take Archie Sonic over IDW Holler Than Thou Hypocrite Sonic who lets a villain perish (for a time) because they didn't want his help and being the reason a dangerous virus quickly spreaded around Mobius, affecting so many lives in the process while also letting his nemesis continue playing his games any day of the century. At least Archie Sonic was an admirable attempt to give more depth to his character and he wasn't all about the romance FYI.
@@rayvenkman2087 I've never read the IDW comics so I had no idea that Sonic was written like that. I guess Sonic's just a hard character to write properly then. As for Archie, I know that Sonic isn't always obsessed with romance. It's just that the two primary pre-Flynn writers (namely Karl Bollers and He-Who-Will-Not-Be-Named) went absoutely overboard with the relationship drama to the detriment of Sonic's characterisation. Considering that those two had such a long run on the comic, it's hard to think about Archie Sonic without thinking about the romance and the irritating shipping wars that followed.
Fleetway Sonic has got to be my favorite version of him. He’s had a very fucked up kinda past, and the comic shows what that can do to a person. I feel like people forget that Sonic is a kid, and he has a lot of pressure put on him. I’m glad you pointed out that Tails and Sonic have a more brotherly relationship with it’s up and downs. People always call it abuse, even though Tails has insulted Sonic back, and as a sibling myself, it’s a pretty good portrayal of what goes down. Something I also found pretty cool with his character is how smart he is with his tactics of defeating his enemies, which is very different than the usual rambunctiousness of other versions of Sonic. All around a cool character, and a sick video.
@@patrickdixon7202 i appreciate the honesty. a lot of people nowadays apologize for everything like "im very sorry if this offends you and it wasn't my intention but... i respectfully disagree with your opinion" no. shut up. just say what you really think.
I feel like people nowadays are just overly sensitive. Sonic the Hedgehog WAS supposed to have an attitude but because people are cry babies, they dumbed down his 90's tude over the years. Fleetway Sonic is hilarious and it's an interesting version of him. Also, Sonic the Hedgehog's attitude emulates actual hedgehogs. They are not social creatures and they are hard to keep as pets.
You said it best. The 90s sonic was one of the best descriptions of sonic. They captured his attitude perfect. Also, people from the 90s kept saying sonic was black😅. I guess because of the voice actor. Jaleel white (Steve Urkel) voiced Sonic the Hedgehog in cartoons from 1993-1998. The New/Early 2000s Sonic, to me, was they captured sonics badass side. Let’s admit, 06 wasn’t a good game, but it had it’s moments. 2005-2009 is when when sonic was badass, to me that is. This new one though I see as sonic finally growing up and maturing. I also hope they can modify his appearance since him and his friends are getting older.
@@JohnnyVector. Or there's limits. For Example, I think ducktales reboot's characters are unlikable, personally and good monets are few and fare between!
I really enjoyed this video! It was nice having a different perspective on Fleetway Sonic from someone who grew up with this series and I loved the fact that you explained about why Fleetway Sonic is written the way he is. I'm still interested in checking out this series though!
Classic Sonic having this much of an attitude makes sense, he's a novice, flawed hero who's type of humor might make him come off as a jerk but he still does the right thing in the end (certainly prefer this over Forces' "power of friendship")
I know that I'm a little late but I'm glad someone made a video talking about Fleetway Sonic's personality, cause I find it interesting but not in a bad way, and the fact that your talking about it is the cherry on top.
I've always theorized that because of the massive success of writers like Frank Miller and Alan Moore in the late 80's and throughout the 90's that STC Sonic was supposed to be more like Wolverine/Guy Gardner GL while Archie and IDW Sonic were supposed to be more like Spider-man/Wally West Flash, edgy anti-heroes were all the rage back then. However this video clarified every question i had in my mind. What a great video, it was extremely interesting hearing an explanation from someone who actually grew up with a comic industry that molded the character that was geared towards a certain audience
I think the Fleetway Sonic is at least a little influenced by the type of "jerk hero" popular in UK children's comics at the time, like the UK Dennis the Menace who has had to be retooled to fit modern sensibilities as the 80s and 90s version of him can come across as a bully and his enemy can be read as gay.
Our hero having character development or personal flaws? Oooh... Sega hates that, but I personally like this. This makes characters, especially our heroes or protagonists more relatable and more understanding in a real sense instead of a one-dimensional corporate figure head.
I would best describe Sonic's actions as tough love. Yes, he likes to mess around with his pals, but he would actually put himself in harm's way just to save them. I also think he want to push them just so they could improve themselves. As for Porker Lewis, I think a lot of it was reverse psychology. He really wanted Lewis to stay, so he attempted a method to have Lewis change his mind. It didn't work as Sonic planned, though...
Honestly, even without the whole multi-year character development thing, I always thought the jerk sonic in fleetway was hilarious, it also helps that the personality trait has been pretty much erased since, so it doesn’t affect the character of sonic in other media
Thanks a lot for making that video and for your efforts of explaining the connections why Sonic behaves the way he does. Very interesting, because I also was wondering myself why is it that Sonic is so out of character in the Fleetway comics.
Johnny, since you got to talk about how different regional social norms affect Sonic, could you do a video on Sonic X and how things were changed from the Japanese version to the US version?
Fun fact: In the UK, they aired the Japanese version of Sonic X but with the American dub as the voice background, meaning us Brits got to see all the risqué stuff from the Japanese Sonic X but still was able to understand the language because it had the American dub. Good stuff.
I really wish that we still had stuff like the Fleetway comics in like the normal Archie Comics I wish we still had like the weirdness that was in like those old days
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Banter is how the British show love. Though I will admit because of my autism I took a while to figure that out. Heck my wrestling instructor calls his best friend “dickhead” all the time. I remember I had to explain this to some American friends of mine when we first started talking that I’m not being overtly “mean” it’s just the British sense of humour. I think that’s what the Fleetway writers were going for in theory with some of their dialogue, but as you also point out it’s also to make Sonic a more three dimensional character. Like someone who does care for his friends but can’t always express it well and often starts pushing them away if they get too close. Like the line in Detective Pikachu “My problem is that I push people away and then hate them for leaving” it’s a similar premise.
I can't stand this Fleetway Sonic. Ego? Okay, Archie comics had that. Attitude? Same thing. Goes overboard sometimes? Can go with that. Sometimes has problems with friends? Okay. Y'know what the real problem is? He NEVER lets up. Johnny's death was the only he ever stopped running his mouth and stopped constantly putting people down and putting himself on a pedestal. And the comparison to other British comics? Good lord, honestly, it just shows me British writers are really f@#$ed. Never get away with this kinda thing now.
Fun fact: Fleetway sonic reads hulk comics which is actually a callback to the fact one of the writers for fleetway used to write hulk comics which makes a lot of sense considering the overpowered glowing crazy eyed yellow -elephant- Hedgehog in the room
11:24 I grew up with the old Dennis the Menace cartoon and never knew that the newer one (from 2009) is more accurate in character design to the original comics.
Could you do a video on Spike the Porcupine? He was in the Archie comics at some point. I do not know anything about him and a video on him would do me some good instead of jumping through hoops to find the comic he debuted in online.
STC Sonic's passive-aggressive barbs seriously didn't register to me as a kid. I didn't know what a "pixel" was, so I assumed "pixel brain" was just some kind of whimsical term of endearment hahaha.
@@erikbihari3625 Well, a pixel is a very very small unit of graphics/picture information, so saying Tails has a "pixel brain" means he has an incredibly small, almost insignificant brain.
@@erikbihari3625 Yeah, but 'pixel' is a unit of graphical data and Sonic is a video game character, so there's some intentional degree of 'cleverness' on the part of the writers that wouldn't be there if Sonic just said "pea brain."
A hedgehog being a prick, who'd have thunk? 🤣 I feel Fleetway were really just hyping that '90s "attitude" characters had to have to be hip with da kidz Etc. Even though it just comes across as incredibly obnoxious by today's standards. Oh, been meaning to ask you a while Johnny, have you ever considered doing a Snivley Vs. Grimer video? Robotnik's assistants in each respective comic region.
I love how Grimer is actually the one to design Metal Sonic in StC, and Robotnik's only contribution is a detonator in case his advanced AI goes rogue. That being the only thing that prevents Judgement Day. In this world the villain isn't just Robotnik and his robots. There's lots of greedy and corrupt people who want to work for him because they're able to benefit tremendously under his dictatorship. In that alternate reality without Robotnik, Grimer would still have been Sonic's enemy but would probably occupy the same role Eggman has in the recent games where he's just a pest who causes trouble every so often. Up until creating Metallix that is.
STCO had a storyline where Sonic was framed and among the items in the smear campaign was his various instances of him being an ass in the past which really didn’t help his situation. It also makes it one of those rare times where most of his friends and the public turning their backs on him actually make logical sense rather than bad writing since they only put up with his shit because he’s their hero. Even STCO Sonic doesn’t like STC Sonic when they met up through time travel.
Issue 96 with the goosebumps sticker book 😍 as both a sonic and goosebumps mega fan I was so excited when I saw this on the shelf that I ran outside with it to show my dad before paying 😂 my dad quickly ushered me back into the shop before I got us in trouble!
I do like how sonic still has some of his cockiness to him as that’s just part of who he is. I do feel like Sega’s been toning it down way too much lately though…
Some things i have to clarify: Sonic(s) 90s attitude was an localation change, In Japan he is a lot more chill, has less quips, Hell he does not even see himself as a Hero, he just does Whatever he wants. Sometimes, The english Translation of the games where a lot more closer to JP Sonic and other times more closer to his American version of him. I personally perfer Japanease Sonic, i really like how he does not Think himself as a hero, and he just does What he wants, and what he wants is good, he is being a hero without being an hero, i also like how he is a person who just want to see what the world has to offer. I also dont like the idea of him crying, i have heard somewhere that Sonic is supposed to be an repretation of Positivty, so it kinda out of characther to him to Cry or get Angry or be Really mean, which i agree with. But i do like Sonic being a bit more snarkier. I also dont Think Sonic needs an ark, he has nothing to learn. What ya see is What ya get, just a hedgehog who seeks the fun in all Adventures, Sonic The Hedgehog
How do you feel about Sonic Prime? I been to tv tropes and appearently, the character of rusty rose is referencing This very comic series with her flicky powered nature. Worth a future video!
I'd argue it's just the general writing of the comic. MOST of the main characters are jerks, and the ones that aren't are generally wimps or butt monkeys. They clearly didn't find much interest in nice guys. Only Amy is a really prominent nice character who isn't crapped on and that's more due to background politics FORBIDDING her being a super flawed jerk character like they wanted. I think a snarky side isn't a problem, it's more how often it channels more into contempt. Like Chaotix being at each other's throats is a thing even in the games, but it's more just a sibling like mentality, guys who squabble but still like each other deep down. Here however they seem to often flat out HATE each other, especially Charmy. This was the 90s, when sarcastic 'cool' jerks were all the rage and 'smaltzy' stuff was dispised. Heroes who just rejected any sort of open sentiment seemed to be favoured, even if STC kinda went a bit overboard about it and sometimes forgot to establish the 'still a good guy deep DEEP down' part.
They are dicks even by 90s standards. Sure cloud strife in ff7 came off as a dick try hard when it came to the 90s definition of “cool” but there’s a reason for it but here everyone is just an ass to the point of comedy which I mean it certainly works for an adult swim comedy. Usually asshole characters back then would have a more noble character to play off of like say wolverine and cyclops but this comic doesn’t really have that
I never saw fleetway sonic as being a jerk while growing up, but I guess being the first sonic comic I read and bearly knowing how to read english had a part on that xD
Yeah, interesting concepts, interperetations, and of course what ends up bleeding back into modern media. For example if tv tropes is believable then rusty rose in Sonic Prime references when This comic series'Amy Rose is used to power a badnik made in her own image.
I'm more okay with Fleetway Sonic now since as an American I never knew the context of UK comics and only saw the worst parts used in shitposts. But I've always preferred the Sonic Team characterization over the US localization's or either of the big comics from back then ever since learning about the changes made. Sonic definitely has influence from both american and japanese popular media since his inception. Popular genres of music in the 90s, American comic book heroes (Spider-Man is a real good fit for comparison), and Japanese animation and manga (Castle in the Sky, heck just a lot Studio Ghibli in general for setting and locales and airships by Eggman, and Dragonball for the obvious Super Sonic bit). I guess I prefer the "simply well-intentioned adventurer who wants everyone to be free to live the life they want" over the "Sonic the Freedom Fighter against a world taken over and there's drama" but I would love a more 3-dimensional character in the Sonic Team games. Frontiers sure tries to push in that direction, and I hope it continues
In my headcanon, Sonic goes through an evolution: He starts off as his Fleetway self up to Sonic 2 8-Bit, then becoming Game Sonic and eventually maturing into his Archie/AoStH self while still maintaining his attitude persona but just more considerate of others including Tails. Though Fleetway Sonic still comes out every now and then, largely in his heckling at his foes similar to The Rock. Calling the Deadly Six Ahh! Monsters! rejects or calling Anton Veruca a wimpy gremlin-faced Godzilla.
9:26 I've started playing the game on my phone and I was surprised when I saw that little bastard looking at me that way when I stopped moving 5 sec. Wasn't ready for that. But it does give him more personality... I'm still gonna keep him wait on purpose tho.
HOnestly never thought of fleetway in that light. well done video, since when i was a kid i always was confused about why the fleetway comics made him like that.
I had always kinda assumed Fleetway Sonic was a bit of an ass because of the British slant, but I was never aware of the extent of it. As someone more familiar with manga than Western comics in general, that bit about how characters in UK comics were written at the time was really fascinating. I know the fanbase gets all caught up in its era wars, but part of what makes Sonic interesting to me is to see all these different takes and interpretations of the world and its characters, both within the games themselves and in the regional supplemental materials, even if I don't personally connect with each interpretation on the same level.
Funny you mentioned Spiderman, because Josh Keaton, who starred in the Best show of(/as) the titular webhead is frequently famcast as the blue blurr himself! You knew about This and oppinion?
Imagine if Game Sonic acted like this. Man he would rip Knuckles a new one for for constantly getting tricked by Eggman and Tails for well not doing anything during Sonic Forces
Haha, I don't think most fans would like it but I'd like to see it. Maybe someone can mod Frontiers to make Sonic more of a jerk..?
@@JohnnyVector You know out of all the Sonic’s Game Sonic has the most reason to act like his Fleetway counterpart considering his friend’s behaviors and well slightly flanderized personality’s in the games before Sonic Frontiers in certain moments like Tails arguing with Sonic in Sonic Lost World for example
@@JohnnyVector. Or to make Sonic simular to his fleetway counterpart? Also could you make a video about why Sonic Underground knuckles is the Best depiction of that red echidna?
@@hattoripool1533. It's sega's fault for hiring writers who known Jack Squat about sonic and fans in places blind acceptance. For example if knuckles' voice sounded younger like everyone else none would think of him as"KNUCKLEHEAD".
Um well Tails did help but it was offscreen
Fleetway Sonic could be a jerk, but there were some moments where he shows a kinder side and shows that he’s a nice guy deep down. Also, he’s still a hero and he still fights bad guys and saves people. And in the end of the series, he becomes nicer and starts acting more like his mainstream counterpart.
I actually really love the different attitudes Sonic is given, the fact many are considered "non canon" means it harmlessly adds some variety and spice to what can otherwise feel a bit stale.
Yeah! Like the salad to a hamburger!
No
Last year The Offical Sonic Twitter said Everything is canon so Fleetways Sonic Comic Is Canon
i agree
Yeah, one thing I love about Sonic as a character is his versatility. He can be portrayed in so many different ways.
I have always liked when we get different interpretations of Sonic, like Movie Sonic being more playful, Prime Sonic being more childish, or Boom Sonic just being sassy.
Also, I think Fleetway Sonic acting like a jerk is so funny. You wouldn't expect that from Sonic. It cracks me up!
"Being*" - 🤓
@@vito6197 boing*
@@vito6197 You're right. I'm on drugs or something. Thanks xD
(Fixed)
You also forget The Sonic X.
@@PercelRoseXD What's different in Sonic X compared to the other versions?
I kind of love this version of Sonic.
A more brash and agressive version Sonic that is not afraid to speak his mind, but is often using that as a mask to his insecurities and feelings.
It almost makes me curious to what have been like If Shadow was in the British comics and met him.
I kind of understand why his super form is evil
fleetway is worst version of sonic ever
If Sonic is this mean, Shadow would probably stampede anytime someone breathes near him
Either that or theyd just make him socially awkward but proud of his power instead of angry, just for variety
I sometimes wonder if maybe it's also a reflection of British culture. It's been a VERY long time since I last read Sonic the Comic (I think I stopped around 96/97 but I can't remember) but whenever I think of what Sonic says to his friends, I think of the "ribbing" I'd give and get back from some of mine. Granted, much like Sonic, some times the ribbing would be taken and recipricated in good faith, other times it feels more like it's punching down when they don't.
Yeah, that's why it's hard to seporate the two.
Hey, punching down is what the man on the gallows does to his oppressors.
Ribbed for your pleasure.
@@KopperNeoman ...Which is punching up if you're not being a smartass
I love that early attempts to draw Sonic head-on made his head a Christmas Tree
I saw artwork of him dressed up as Christmas tree.
When I started reading the Fleetway comics, after having finished all of the Archie stuff, that was quite the jarring change, especially Sonic himself not to mention all the other differences coming at this from an American perspective. At first I really hated this version of Sonic, but over time I came to understand what they were going for and really kind of ended up enjoying him in a weird way. He is still not my favorite version of the character, but I don't hate him any more.
As someone who collected the Beano, I can confirm this. I still remember when they got rid of Dennis's catapult, toned down his bullying and they got shit on for it.
Looking back, British comics were hilarious, but the characters were awful, awful people.
Yeah you're right, I recall hearing that they renamed some characters and got criticised for it? I guess sometimes you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
@@JohnnyVector I know my reply is late, and the example I'm giving isn't relevant to Sonic or the Beano, but your explanation for British culture and context puts me in mind of The Inbetweeners.
Inbetweeners was must-watch TV during my teenage years in high school. Everyone was quoting it, treating it like the cure for cancer, etc. When I first watched the show, I didn't like it. My first impression was that it was just mean-spirited and depressing.
But then I watched it again and paid close attention to Will, Jay, Neil and Simon and realised that they're all dickheads who bring it on themselves.
I'd quite like to see the Fleetway, IDW and pre-Flynn Archie versions of Sonic all meet up, just to watch the chaos of their interactions with each other...
IDW Sonic: "We'll defeat Eggman with the power of friendship!"
Fleetway Sonic: "Blech. Am I really this much of a sappy wimp in your universe? And what's that other me doing over there with the wolf girl?"
Archie Sonic (to Whisper): "Hey, baby. What's your sign...?"
Honestly, this is ALL I wanted after learning there are 3 wildly different Sonic interpretations out there.
How do they compare and contrast. So thanks
I kind of like Sonic the Comic’s take on Sonic. I just don’t know why I just do
That's great to hear
@NES I think it could work. Have Sonic initially act like that but as time goes on he slowly starts becoming like the Sonic from the games as he slowly matures and warms up to his friends
Johnny: sonic is a fully realised three-dimensional character
Sonic's three- dimensional character: 4:00
Mario had to much spaghetti
ive always seen fleetway sonic as, well, accurate to real life hedgehogs. they're easily frightened and will hiss and pop at whatever they deem a threat
I can relate to being an insecure dickhead with the world on his shoulders and an inability to express yourself to an unreasonable amount, especially as a much less abrasive and angry adult. it's honestly a nice feeling seeing Sonic come into his thirties alongside me, more empathetic and caring than he used to be, mirroring my own growth as a person. Sonic as a character is almost exactly a month younger than me, so it almost feels like we grew up together.
1. Awesome video as always!
2. I was actually kind of attracted to Jerk-y sonic, I love seeing the early history of characters, where they haven't been solidified just yet, and seeing such a wildly different take on the character is interesting!
He's a kid that always wins and is extremely powerful, it's understandable to translate that to someone who atleast firstthought's into more aggressive tones.
I think a version of that was always somewhere in sonic, where casual or just in burst with the 'shut up tails' and such, laid back living his life in love and freedom is a proper character growth.
I agree. He's the only one in his group with a legitimate super power, so he doesn't need to take any situation as seriously as his friends do. It's only when he isn't in control of the situation that he stops teasing them and just focuses on succeeding.
@@TFSned Knux, Knuckles, Knox, Knuxxy The Wuxxy, El red de fist:
@@ant445 knuckles is usually on guarding the master emerald
That's an accurate statement of Fleetway Sonic and it works considering how the story handles later on where the first time his win caused a death of a friend.
@@soilderzero2982 ok true, but would Tails count
From what I’ve read of Fleetway while I think jerk sonic a bit interesting he could’ve been a bit LESS of a jerk at times. Like his growth felt really slow and not fully fleshed out.
By the time he stops being an ass, it was in the final story arc of the comic before the cancellation.
Ikr? By comparison, Super Sonic had better character development.
fleetway sonic is worst sonic
movie sonic is better sonic
i'll admit i never read fleetway, but one thing i love so much about spinoffs was seeing new takes on characters.
like even day one we got 2 cartoons, adventures and satam which had completely opposite tones and both worked fantastically despite both versions of sonic, tails and robotnik being completely different characters (well maybe less so sonic he was always the 90's cool kid stereotype, not 1 dimensional but that was his surface level personality in both)
i really liked movie sonic being a socially awkward shut in or boom sonic being sassy bitch. i do get why people hate mean spirited characters, but it's clear his mean spiritedness in fleetway is a character flaw which does get called out and developed much like in the games him rushing head first without a plan is also a frustraighting issue be it falling into eggmans trap in the unleashed intro or freeing the zeti by accident.
plus some of the out of context pages are just hilarious like that one insulting tails face when he's about to be impaled, like yes he's being mean but that's clearly the joke lol.
Bad take.
@@patrickdixon7202 give me a better one then
@@sonicmeerkat Not every new intepretation of Sonic is good. Fleetway Sonic is a POS for the sake of it.
@@patrickdixon7202 sure😒
I think of this portrayal of Sonic as a "lovable jerk", in the same vein as Bart Simpson. When it comes down to it, Sonic always does the right thing. He's just still a kid who thinks this is the "cool" way to act, hiding his feelings and being aloof.
Learning more about comics, movies and video games from Europe and Asia is always very fascinating. You realize that their cultures are so different from how it is in the United States.
Good man for explaining the whole cultural context STC falls into that younger folk and Americans simply don't get. I don't know how anyone can read the "I don't much like the look of your face" gag and get all in a fluster about it. It's banter!! It's just banter!!! 'course, it doesn't help that so many people seem to have formed their opinion based on the same half-dozen panels shared out of context on social media, and don't understand that in several, Sonic isn't just casually "being a jerk" in his usual arrogant, banterous, but not mean-hearted way, but lashing out because he's angry about something and is taking it out on someone in the heat of the moment, a pretty normal human failing.
Wow, I didn’t expect to see you here Chris (although it isn’t entirely surprising to see you here since you do have a podcast talking about the Fleetway Sonic comics, but I’m still surprised to see you comment on this in particular video).
Id say fleetway sonic is a jerk sometimes but not always
That pretty much sums it up!
@@JohnnyVector Let me guess what’s next. “Why is Archie Sonic a Jerk?” pointing to the scenes where he destroyed Knothole village in issue 39 and was held in court in issue 40 for it then for letting her die like he did to Amy in Sonic Riders in issue 47, Sally slapped Sonic as if he were the worst boyfriend unlike any other after he told her that he wanted to save the world instead of be her king and after that, Tails would scream at Sonic that he hates him in issue 155 as if a Nazi were better than him and then they would fight 24 issues later.
I love your videos chap. Your experiences are so close to mine and it is lovely to hear someone who talking about Sonic from the perspective of someone in the UK, and the stories and media we grew up with. STC was/is essential reading. It shaped who Sonic is for me, and my years spent pouring hours and hours over the pages were joyous throughout the entire run...
I think fleetway sonic is written brilliantly. he was always stressed, wanting to do almost everything himself, and to me seemed afraid of his friends getting hurt but not being able to express himself. he couldn't. he was the rock for them to lean on. he was Mobius' hero, i don't think he felt he COULD open up, and it clearly wore on him, and so pushed people away, hid his problems in humor, lashed out when anybody made a mistake,because they could die from messing up. top that off with the fact he'd become an invincible demon if he got too stressed. I don't think fleetway sonic is a jerk. i think he's just very human.
1:09, 1:34. etc. Yeah, totally not a jerk.
@@Ergeniz Just a bit of banter
@@ThomasRoyBates Banter of a prick, yes
@@Ergeniz you just don't get it
@@ThomasRoyBates I do. Just because you've presented a contrarian opinion, it doesn't at all equate to being more perceptive or necessarily deep thinking. Many times it just means one comes off as delusional. Sometimes things are just what they are and people are overanalyzing things. This isn't to say Sonic doesn't have nuances. But he's still a prick.
Always nice to see you bring up the Fleetway Comics. It's interpretation of Sonic certainly stands apart, so this should be an interesting dive through memory lane.
1:07 - I love how straight to the point you are with it! As noted with 2:10, there is plenty to this interpretation of Sonic. A lot of the panels or pages that get brought up when discussing or looking for Fleetway Sonic are focused on his jerk moments but those are then taken in isolation, ignoring the rest of the story, his friendlier moments, and his consistent heroics. He is a jerk, but he's almost always doing the right thing (I recall him often rejecting new people from trying to join the freedom fighters, which could be as much owed to his ego as to trying to keep said new recruit out of danger).
4:29 - Yeah, as mentioned, it's the Jerk moments that pop up these days but often the more supportive and friendlier moments get overshadowed. Fleetway Sonic was certainly flawed but in a distinct way and still a hero.
6:06 - I never did manage to read the last few issues. It is interesting to see the difference in Chaos' look here; the style screams Fleetway!
10:16 - Oh yeah, I remember the Channel Hoppers being obvious Teletubbies references. DRAT being a Space Marine reference wasn't picked up until much later (I always favoured the fantasy Warhammer).
14:10 - The dive into the background of British Comic scene was certainly nice to see. Despite being a Brit myself, I don't have much experience with it outside of Fleetway Sonic, Bananaman, and the odd comic here of there (usually through annuals/compilations than standalone).
"why is fleetway sonic a jerk?"
Me, before pressing play: it's cause he's British
I am glad that the culture was brought up
Bri'ih
i said that too😭
The damn limeys fucked him over decades before Paramount.
I know that Sonic can be cocky sometimes, but this is a whole new level!
At least in the Archie comics sonic admitted he was a jerk to tails and apologized. But I think the most mature versions of sonic Are IDW and frontiers
I think the difference with Dredd vs Fleetway Sonic is that Dredd’s consistently portrayed that as a hard-boiled hardass while Sonic was only portrayed that way in the Fleetway Comics only. The only current day equivalent we have to STC Sonic is IDW Sonic and that’s by bad writing.
*After an internal investigation, we at Monius Corporation have decided to cut ties with Sonic The Hedgehog after multiple allegations of toxic behavior and fostering a toxic work environment. We take the safety and wellbeing of our staff extremely seriously and are no longer working with Sonic.*
*The Sonic The Hedgehog comic has unfortunately been cancelled but we can confirm the Amy Rose Power Hour will continue uninterrupted*
Short answer: he's British
Part of it I think was the '90s Attitude' kinda style, and I dont think it was always him being an ass, I think sometimes its just him being sarcastic and snarky, a dry sense of humour for story and the reader as a product of the time. Doesn't make it right. But as well as you say he has a lot of responsibility, and he partly feels responsible for what happened to Mobius and Robotnik in StC. The pressure could get to him from time to time.
I hadn’t considered that the comics I grew up with here in UK were filled with , effectively bullies. Do you think that’s changed in recent years or is still the same?
I remember reading something about Denise’s Menacing not being as cruelty orientated as it once was but I haven’t checked it out myself.
I just hope he doesn't pick on Walter and the Softies any more. It's in pretty poor taste now, plus they just seemed more fun and interesting than Dennis. I always liked Calamity James more for being a true underdog and just genuinely hilarious.
I've been a new fan to the series, hadn't watched a show, film, read any comic comic or played any game until 2021. As of today, after 140+ games, all films and shows and the IDW comics IV started the Fleetway comics. I'm saying this just to establish that I have 0 nostalgia for anything Sonic related.
So far I've read all the News of the World strips (which some consider part of Fleetway's timeline considering they have the same art style), all the specials (Winter/summer specials, Sonic Mags, Knuckles one-shot etc) and I'm currently at issue 83 on the main series and I'm enjoying it for the most part. Every time they introduce a new original zone my thoughts are "Damn, wish they included this in a game, feels so good", Stone Tower Zone, The Nameless Zone, Pleasant Zone, they're all just so fun. I'm not thrilled with the stories so far but I didn't expect it to thrill me, they were clearly not SEGA's main focus in the 90s, I expect Archie will feel more for the lack of a better word epic and adventurous when I start it.
Worst part about Fleetway isn't simply the characterization, it's the consistency in characterization and the off balance between Sonic's "cool" and compassionate sides. Tails is being presented as pretty pathetic for most of this run, always afraid or lost and inferior to pretty much everyone around him. His attitude changes plenty in stories like the one where he saved Tantrum Mouse for example and it seemed like he was developing as a character finally... Only for him to act the same pathetic way he used to act in the Sonic's World stories. It's a jarring inconsistency that hasn't been addressed so far. Amy and Robotnik also act pretty differently to their mainline and SatAM/Adventures counterparts but also familiar enough to not feel bastardized, I really enjoy this new take on them. Biggest improvement by far here is Knuckles, out of all the universes so far (SatAM, Fleetway, BOOM, Sonic X, mainline and SMEU) Fleetway Knuckles might be my favorite. His ethics are crystal clear, he is an echidna warrior set in protecting the Floating Island from any type of danger and preserving its zones for when his people return. He is not easily manipulated like mainline or X Knuckles, he is strong-willed and determined, he has a heart of gold extending a helping hand to everyone in need no exceptions if they ask for it. I also found him to be the funniest character of them all, his witty remarks every now and then or his interactions with Tails in the Knuckles & Tails story are pure gold. And of course there's the elephant in the room, Sonic himself. I kind of hate him, not gonna lie. He IS a jerk, it's undeniable, and those rare occasions where he does show a more likeable side he immediately offshoots it with his extremely unlikeable one (like when he visited Porker on the Floating Island just to check up on him but when he started to talk he just told him to shut up). They think that him being this way 24/7 is cool but it really ain't and every time they try to make scenes with him more emotional or grounded they fall flat on their face cause they feel like there was no buildup. I don't believe Sonic and the group are friends, no, there's barely been anything friend-like about them. Sonic almost always deserves a punch to the face.
i honestly kind of wish game sonic was more like him and super sonic was this way too
I could never stand this version of Sonic's attitude towards Tails. The whole idea behind Sonic and Tails' relationship was that Tails was often bullied for his extra tail, but Sonic saw his potential, he was impressed that Tails could use his abnormality to keep up with him, and ultimately took him under his wing. This version of Sonic acts just as bad, if not worse, than a bully.
Also, I might be wrong, but I always wondered if the writers of this comic hated Tails and were just venting their thoughts about the character through Sonic. It might sound crazy, but I remember other kids doing the same thing back in the day. I remember kids saying "Oh yeah, Sonic totally hates Tails! He thinks he's annoying and useless!" I could never stand that because Tails was one of my favourite characters.
I’ve been getting into sonic the comic recently (mainly thanks to you lol) and I love the way the characters (specifically sonic himself and knuckles) are written, I don’t really know how describe it, I just really like it
the main best thing about Fleetway's Sonic is that he's the only version of Sonic that has a British accent.
I'm glad you brought up the culture of the time because that's what people miss when analysing STC!Sonic. Friends trading insults was an extension of the idiom "keep a stiff upper lip"; to thicken the skin at worst and made in good humour at best. STC!Sonic was bog-standard for his time, and, personally, I think it was a clever twist on the whole "attitude" trend back then.
Either way, criticising old media through modern sensibilities is a fool's errand.
Stiff upper lip, is that like the opposite of turning the other cheek or something?
@@erikbihari3625 It means to persevere without complaint.
@@herrice3227. I.e.:-"take it like a champ"?
@@erikbihari3625 Yep!
Is more of how it works as a time capsule for the times.
Im definitely from the states, but I've always found the Fleetway interpretation of the comics infinitely more interesting than the original Archie run. Nice seeing these covered
I think Archie tried to do the Fleetway approach with Sonic at points but leaned way too hard into it which is why we ended up with Sega really pushing back on what outside media can get away with doing. I honestly feel like Fleetway Sonic is absolutely the way Sonic would handle death given Sonic's general free and open nature he could feel genuine regret not being able to tell Johnny that it he didn't really mean all the things he said about him
Sonic is like classic wolverine. He's tough on his friends because he cares.
Really great video. As a kid who grew up with Sonic the Comic I never seen him as anything but a bit of a jerk. It's probably why I never got on with any of the other 90's adaptations of him. I like versions of him now a days but it's probably cos they allow him to have elements of jerkiness.
I would take this incarnation of Sonic anyday over Archie's romance obsessed version. At least there's no dumb Sonic/Sally/Mina love triangle/shipping war in the Fleetway comics.
I like Fleetway's take on Sonic largely because of his flaws. It makes him easier to relate to. After all, who wouldn't be a little bit cynical and insecure from having to fight against a world conquering dictator everyday?
I would gladly take Archie Sonic over IDW Holler Than Thou Hypocrite Sonic who lets a villain perish (for a time) because they didn't want his help and being the reason a dangerous virus quickly spreaded around Mobius, affecting so many lives in the process while also letting his nemesis continue playing his games any day of the century.
At least Archie Sonic was an admirable attempt to give more depth to his character and he wasn't all about the romance FYI.
@@rayvenkman2087 I've never read the IDW comics so I had no idea that Sonic was written like that. I guess Sonic's just a hard character to write properly then.
As for Archie, I know that Sonic isn't always obsessed with romance. It's just that the two primary pre-Flynn writers (namely Karl Bollers and He-Who-Will-Not-Be-Named) went absoutely overboard with the relationship drama to the detriment of Sonic's characterisation. Considering that those two had such a long run on the comic, it's hard to think about Archie Sonic without thinking about the romance and the irritating shipping wars that followed.
Fleetway Sonic has got to be my favorite version of him. He’s had a very fucked up kinda past, and the comic shows what that can do to a person. I feel like people forget that Sonic is a kid, and he has a lot of pressure put on him. I’m glad you pointed out that Tails and Sonic have a more brotherly relationship with it’s up and downs. People always call it abuse, even though Tails has insulted Sonic back, and as a sibling myself, it’s a pretty good portrayal of what goes down. Something I also found pretty cool with his character is how smart he is with his tactics of defeating his enemies, which is very different than the usual rambunctiousness of other versions of Sonic. All around a cool character, and a sick video.
Terrible take.
@@patrickdixon7202 i appreciate the honesty. a lot of people nowadays apologize for everything like "im very sorry if this offends you and it wasn't my intention but... i respectfully disagree with your opinion" no. shut up. just say what you really think.
@@Illuminfinity True.
Amy does little trolling
I feel like people nowadays are just overly sensitive. Sonic the Hedgehog WAS supposed to have an attitude but because people are cry babies, they dumbed down his 90's tude over the years. Fleetway Sonic is hilarious and it's an interesting version of him. Also, Sonic the Hedgehog's attitude emulates actual hedgehogs. They are not social creatures and they are hard to keep as pets.
You said it best. The 90s sonic was one of the best descriptions of sonic. They captured his attitude perfect. Also, people from the 90s kept saying sonic was black😅. I guess because of the voice actor. Jaleel white (Steve Urkel) voiced Sonic the Hedgehog in cartoons from 1993-1998. The New/Early 2000s Sonic, to me, was they captured sonics badass side. Let’s admit, 06 wasn’t a good game, but it had it’s moments. 2005-2009 is when when sonic was badass, to me that is. This new one though I see as sonic finally growing up and maturing. I also hope they can modify his appearance since him and his friends are getting older.
fleetway sonic is worst sonic
Actually think the take on Sonic is pretty good and overhated.
Indeed. I assume a lot of people see just a couple of panels and instantly dislike this Sonic. A bit of a shame.
@@JohnnyVector. Or there's limits. For Example, I think ducktales reboot's characters are unlikable, personally and good monets are few and fare between!
@@erikbihari3625 who asked
@@ExValeFor. Nobody?
@@ExValeFor Had no idea you needed confirmation to post a comment. Go ask your brain a few questions and think before you say stuff like this.
I really enjoyed this video! It was nice having a different perspective on Fleetway Sonic from someone who grew up with this series and I loved the fact that you explained about why Fleetway Sonic is written the way he is. I'm still interested in checking out this series though!
Classic Sonic having this much of an attitude makes sense, he's a novice, flawed hero who's type of humor might make him come off as a jerk but he still does the right thing in the end (certainly prefer this over Forces' "power of friendship")
I know that I'm a little late but I'm glad someone made a video talking about Fleetway Sonic's personality, cause I find it interesting but not in a bad way, and the fact that your talking about it is the cherry on top.
I've always theorized that because of the massive success of writers like Frank Miller and Alan Moore in the late 80's and throughout the 90's that STC Sonic was supposed to be more like Wolverine/Guy Gardner GL while Archie and IDW Sonic were supposed to be more like Spider-man/Wally West Flash, edgy anti-heroes were all the rage back then. However this video clarified every question i had in my mind. What a great video, it was extremely interesting hearing an explanation from someone who actually grew up with a comic industry that molded the character that was geared towards a certain audience
I think the Fleetway Sonic is at least a little influenced by the type of "jerk hero" popular in UK children's comics at the time, like the UK Dennis the Menace who has had to be retooled to fit modern sensibilities as the 80s and 90s version of him can come across as a bully and his enemy can be read as gay.
Our hero having character development or personal flaws? Oooh... Sega hates that, but I personally like this. This makes characters, especially our heroes or protagonists more relatable and more understanding in a real sense instead of a one-dimensional corporate figure head.
If Fleetway Sonic didn't get his powers and stayed brown, maybe he would be ruder because people bully him for trying to run faster then anyone.
Why does he look like a Christmas tree though?
LOL
I guess they just drew his quills that way; I kinda like it though
I would best describe Sonic's actions as tough love. Yes, he likes to mess around with his pals, but he would actually put himself in harm's way just to save them. I also think he want to push them just so they could improve themselves. As for Porker Lewis, I think a lot of it was reverse psychology. He really wanted Lewis to stay, so he attempted a method to have Lewis change his mind. It didn't work as Sonic planned, though...
“You aren’t half as as handsome as me tails, your more handsome”
-gud end
Honestly, even without the whole multi-year character development thing, I always thought the jerk sonic in fleetway was hilarious, it also helps that the personality trait has been pretty much erased since, so it doesn’t affect the character of sonic in other media
fleetway is worst version of sonic
this was a great piece of content, loved it
Thanks a lot for making that video and for your efforts of explaining the connections why Sonic behaves the way he does.
Very interesting, because I also was wondering myself why is it that Sonic is so out of character in the Fleetway comics.
Johnny, since you got to talk about how different regional social norms affect Sonic, could you do a video on Sonic X and how things were changed from the Japanese version to the US version?
I wanted to ask krimsom rogue and dominic noble!
For that matter, UK Sonic is a pretty reasonable adaptation of the original manga sonic, with a dailog between hard edge and softness to it.
Fun fact: In the UK, they aired the Japanese version of Sonic X but with the American dub as the voice background, meaning us Brits got to see all the risqué stuff from the Japanese Sonic X but still was able to understand the language because it had the American dub. Good stuff.
I really wish that we still had stuff like the Fleetway comics in like the normal Archie Comics I wish we still had like the weirdness that was in like those old days
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Banter is how the British show love. Though I will admit because of my autism I took a while to figure that out. Heck my wrestling instructor calls his best friend “dickhead” all the time.
I remember I had to explain this to some American friends of mine when we first started talking that I’m not being overtly “mean” it’s just the British sense of humour.
I think that’s what the Fleetway writers were going for in theory with some of their dialogue, but as you also point out it’s also to make Sonic a more three dimensional character. Like someone who does care for his friends but can’t always express it well and often starts pushing them away if they get too close. Like the line in Detective Pikachu “My problem is that I push people away and then hate them for leaving” it’s a similar premise.
I can't stand this Fleetway Sonic. Ego? Okay, Archie comics had that. Attitude? Same thing. Goes overboard sometimes? Can go with that. Sometimes has problems with friends? Okay. Y'know what the real problem is? He NEVER lets up. Johnny's death was the only he ever stopped running his mouth and stopped constantly putting people down and putting himself on a pedestal.
And the comparison to other British comics? Good lord, honestly, it just shows me British writers are really f@#$ed. Never get away with this kinda thing now.
Fun fact: Fleetway sonic reads hulk comics which is actually a callback to the fact one of the writers for fleetway used to write hulk comics which makes a lot of sense considering the overpowered glowing crazy eyed yellow -elephant- Hedgehog in the room
11:24 I grew up with the old Dennis the Menace cartoon and never knew that the newer one (from 2009) is more accurate in character design to the original comics.
Could you do a video on Spike the Porcupine? He was in the Archie comics at some point. I do not know anything about him and a video on him would do me some good instead of jumping through hoops to find the comic he debuted in online.
STC Sonic's passive-aggressive barbs seriously didn't register to me as a kid. I didn't know what a "pixel" was, so I assumed "pixel brain" was just some kind of whimsical term of endearment hahaha.
Why would it count as an insult in the first place?
@@erikbihari3625 Well, a pixel is a very very small unit of graphics/picture information, so saying Tails has a "pixel brain" means he has an incredibly small, almost insignificant brain.
@@michaelpalmer5351. There's simpler ways of saying like pea and stuff.
@@erikbihari3625 Yeah, but 'pixel' is a unit of graphical data and Sonic is a video game character, so there's some intentional degree of 'cleverness' on the part of the writers that wouldn't be there if Sonic just said "pea brain."
@@michaelpalmer5351 i think it moreso making fun of tail for being nerdy, since tail is inventor and pixels are something relating o tech
That image of Super Sonic with serrated teeth and hypnotic eyes is so iconic for me, I loved it as an idea.
A hedgehog being a prick, who'd have thunk? 🤣
I feel Fleetway were really just hyping that '90s "attitude" characters had to have to be hip with da kidz Etc. Even though it just comes across as incredibly obnoxious by today's standards.
Oh, been meaning to ask you a while Johnny, have you ever considered doing a Snivley Vs. Grimer video? Robotnik's assistants in each respective comic region.
I love how Grimer is actually the one to design Metal Sonic in StC, and Robotnik's only contribution is a detonator in case his advanced AI goes rogue. That being the only thing that prevents Judgement Day.
In this world the villain isn't just Robotnik and his robots. There's lots of greedy and corrupt people who want to work for him because they're able to benefit tremendously under his dictatorship. In that alternate reality without Robotnik, Grimer would still have been Sonic's enemy but would probably occupy the same role Eggman has in the recent games where he's just a pest who causes trouble every so often. Up until creating Metallix that is.
I never liked any of Robotnik/Eggman assistants in both games and comics except Orbot. Yes, not even sage or cubot, just orbot
STCO had a storyline where Sonic was framed and among the items in the smear campaign was his various instances of him being an ass in the past which really didn’t help his situation. It also makes it one of those rare times where most of his friends and the public turning their backs on him actually make logical sense rather than bad writing since they only put up with his shit because he’s their hero.
Even STCO Sonic doesn’t like STC Sonic when they met up through time travel.
Issue 96 with the goosebumps sticker book 😍 as both a sonic and goosebumps mega fan I was so excited when I saw this on the shelf that I ran outside with it to show my dad before paying 😂 my dad quickly ushered me back into the shop before I got us in trouble!
I do like how sonic still has some of his cockiness to him as that’s just part of who he is. I do feel like Sega’s been toning it down way too much lately though…
That was very good! I hope to see more of these videos.
Some things i have to clarify: Sonic(s) 90s attitude was an localation change, In Japan he is a lot more chill, has less quips, Hell he does not even see himself as a Hero, he just does Whatever he wants. Sometimes, The english Translation of the games where a lot more closer to JP Sonic and other times more closer to his American version of him. I personally perfer Japanease Sonic, i really like how he does not Think himself as a hero, and he just does What he wants, and what he wants is good, he is being a hero without being an hero, i also like how he is a person who just want to see what the world has to offer. I also dont like the idea of him crying, i have heard somewhere that Sonic is supposed to be an repretation of Positivty, so it kinda out of characther to him to Cry or get Angry or be Really mean, which i agree with. But i do like Sonic being a bit more snarkier. I also dont Think Sonic needs an ark, he has nothing to learn. What ya see is What ya get, just a hedgehog who seeks the fun in all Adventures, Sonic The Hedgehog
Hey Johnny have you considered trying to be a guest on the STC podcast?
I'd love to guest on their podcast tbh. Maybe I should reach out to them.
@@JohnnyVector. You could point out the fleetway references in Sonic Prime as a trump card!
How do you feel about Sonic Prime? I been to tv tropes and appearently, the character of rusty rose is referencing This very comic series with her flicky powered nature. Worth a future video!
I'd argue it's just the general writing of the comic. MOST of the main characters are jerks, and the ones that aren't are generally wimps or butt monkeys. They clearly didn't find much interest in nice guys. Only Amy is a really prominent nice character who isn't crapped on and that's more due to background politics FORBIDDING her being a super flawed jerk character like they wanted. I think a snarky side isn't a problem, it's more how often it channels more into contempt. Like Chaotix being at each other's throats is a thing even in the games, but it's more just a sibling like mentality, guys who squabble but still like each other deep down. Here however they seem to often flat out HATE each other, especially Charmy.
This was the 90s, when sarcastic 'cool' jerks were all the rage and 'smaltzy' stuff was dispised. Heroes who just rejected any sort of open sentiment seemed to be favoured, even if STC kinda went a bit overboard about it and sometimes forgot to establish the 'still a good guy deep DEEP down' part.
They are dicks even by 90s standards. Sure cloud strife in ff7 came off as a dick try hard when it came to the 90s definition of “cool” but there’s a reason for it but here everyone is just an ass to the point of comedy which I mean it certainly works for an adult swim comedy. Usually asshole characters back then would have a more noble character to play off of like say wolverine and cyclops but this comic doesn’t really have that
I like Sonic being a bit of a jerk sometimes, I think that makes him more interesting.
I never saw fleetway sonic as being a jerk while growing up, but I guess being the first sonic comic I read and bearly knowing how to read english had a part on that xD
I honestly would love for you to make an episode covering Fleetway eggman/robotnik as he actually has quite an interesting backstory.
Is there a way to get the books in physical media online?
I always love your Fleetway Sonic videos Johnny!
Yeah, interesting concepts, interperetations, and of course what ends up bleeding back into modern media. For example if tv tropes is believable then rusty rose in Sonic Prime references when This comic series'Amy Rose is used to power a badnik made in her own image.
I can bet that Sonic was the cause of the console wars in the past
It's pretty cool that Fleetway Sonic has such depth
I'm more okay with Fleetway Sonic now since as an American I never knew the context of UK comics and only saw the worst parts used in shitposts. But I've always preferred the Sonic Team characterization over the US localization's or either of the big comics from back then ever since learning about the changes made. Sonic definitely has influence from both american and japanese popular media since his inception. Popular genres of music in the 90s, American comic book heroes (Spider-Man is a real good fit for comparison), and Japanese animation and manga (Castle in the Sky, heck just a lot Studio Ghibli in general for setting and locales and airships by Eggman, and Dragonball for the obvious Super Sonic bit).
I guess I prefer the "simply well-intentioned adventurer who wants everyone to be free to live the life they want" over the "Sonic the Freedom Fighter against a world taken over and there's drama" but I would love a more 3-dimensional character in the Sonic Team games. Frontiers sure tries to push in that direction, and I hope it continues
I think sonic doesn't what to show his feeling to his friends but he cares about them
In my headcanon, Sonic goes through an evolution:
He starts off as his Fleetway self up to Sonic 2 8-Bit, then becoming Game Sonic and eventually maturing into his Archie/AoStH self while still maintaining his attitude persona but just more considerate of others including Tails.
Though Fleetway Sonic still comes out every now and then, largely in his heckling at his foes similar to The Rock. Calling the Deadly Six Ahh! Monsters! rejects or calling Anton Veruca a wimpy gremlin-faced Godzilla.
9:26 I've started playing the game on my phone and I was surprised when I saw that little bastard looking at me that way when I stopped moving 5 sec. Wasn't ready for that. But it does give him more personality... I'm still gonna keep him wait on purpose tho.
Sonic prime seams like a good example of Sonic learning and growing. At least so far only one season. Tbd
so basically he's a tsundere
No
@@megasystem8473 yes
Nice video! You seriously have a lot of potential my friend! I wish you great amounts of happiness and success! :)
So fleetway sonic is basically snapcube’s fan dub of sonic
HOnestly never thought of fleetway in that light. well done video, since when i was a kid i always was confused about why the fleetway comics made him like that.
This was a deeper dive into Sonic's personality thant I thought it would go - I collected STC religiously as a kid.
Theres one double page in fleetway where the death egg is blasted by the island while the master emerald and sonic fall. Its such a great page.
I thought we were talking about Fleetway super sonic 😅
Either way great video!❤️
I had always kinda assumed Fleetway Sonic was a bit of an ass because of the British slant, but I was never aware of the extent of it. As someone more familiar with manga than Western comics in general, that bit about how characters in UK comics were written at the time was really fascinating.
I know the fanbase gets all caught up in its era wars, but part of what makes Sonic interesting to me is to see all these different takes and interpretations of the world and its characters, both within the games themselves and in the regional supplemental materials, even if I don't personally connect with each interpretation on the same level.
I thought part of the reason why he's a jerk to others was to make his enemies think they weren't worth going after.
Funny you mentioned Spiderman, because Josh Keaton, who starred in the Best show of(/as) the titular webhead is frequently famcast as the blue blurr himself! You knew about This and oppinion?