Keith, very happy to see American Rotary step up. I truly think this is a win-win for everyone. They get extremely valuable product placement advertising, you get power for your dream shop, and your viewers get good advice on their needs. I am an electrical engineer with over 40 years in power generation and distribution experience, and I can tell you there is so much misinformation out there about phase converters. It is good to see companies recognize the value of seeing their products on TH-cam. As long as the products that are showcased are something you would actually purchase and use, I have no issue with commercialization. You are a truthful and stand up guy, I know you will handle this in a good way.
Couldn't happen to a better person. Glad to see you have what you need. An old commercial electrician sent me a diagram of how to build one of these. I may have the parts to make one for my brother who is a printer. His paper shear had a three phase motor on the hydraulic pump. He changed it out to single phase but has some issues so I may fix him up. Thanks Keith, Greg.
I currently just have an extra 3 phase motor sitting on the floor. 220 running on that's switched. I kick the shaft to get the motor turning. Turn on the power and I have enough of a 3rd wave created (I've never put a scope on it (that's waiting to get repaired too) to see what the wave looks like) to start/run my mill, lathe, and car lift. If the motor on my car lift (it's mechanical with a big screw on each side) doesn't have enough power to lift from a dead stop, I can run my mill and the starting power on the lift motor is increased. I walked into a used machinery store looking for a converter. The owner told me how to make what I described above.
Great to see you getting some commercial backing. We out here in "Tubeland" appreciate your efforts and are happy to return the favor by working with people that help you do what you do.
Wow Keith, that's amazing - congratulations! I live in rural Croatia where 3 phase is fed into most homes. Coming from the UK this is strange magic to me, there are even 3 phase domestic cookers, of course I found this out the hard way...
Well, I would be if the supply was stable (we measured one phase for a week, should be 230 but fluctuated between 180 volts and 245) and dependable (we average one power outage a month, often only one phase). I really wouldn't like to try and power anything more demanding than a cooker on this! Edit: since I wrote this a week ago we've had 3 power outs - one accompanied by a loud bang and an electrical burning smell outside, I think the substation blew up again.
That is great. I am glad Chris hooked you up, he is a good guy. I have been enjoying my American rotary 50hp AI for a couple of months now and really like how much quieter it is than my old one was.
This is the classiest advertisement/sponsor type video on You Tube. If I ever have a need for one I will certainly consider American Rotary. I appreciate them sponsoring this channel allowing Keith to improve this channel
Congrats on the sponsor Keith.Those guys at AR know great talent when they see it. Couldn't go to a more deserving guy. That's gotta be a huge help with your shop,which will help all of us viewers enjoy your channel and learn even more from you.Good job !
Wow Keith, it's great that you managed to negotiate a 10% discount for viewers and get sponsorship for the channel. You've worked hard building up the channel and you deserve to get something back. You could have been out working instead of doing videos and I bet that you spent quite a fair bit of money out of your pocket over the years. I think that you will be much happier with the phase converter. Since your a one man operation, I can't imagine that you will have more than two machines running at one time and that will only occur rarely.
You are right about multiple machines - it is rare that I would have more than one running at a time. But with this converter, I should be set to go for a long time to come!
Wow! was just in contact with American rotary after their support of the Summer bash. I am in the market for a 15hp model and will watch your progress, Again another thank you American Rotary for their support of the You Tube community and I will confirm my support with a purchase.
Finally winter is here and I had time to wire up and got to do a trial run of my 2 speed 2.5hp / 5hp 14x40 republic lathe. The wiring of the rotary converter was easy yet I had a question after hours and was surprised when someone answered the phone and assured I was on the right tract. After learning all the correct start-up limit switches on my new (used) lathe I was off and running. Got my discount, pleased with the service and proud to purchase American Made with "Baldor" motor.
Grats on getting such a fine machine, sponsor and deal! Somewhere I have an old Fine Woodworking book with how to make your own 3 Ø converter using any old 3 Ø motor. It still needed a kick motor to get it going, but the more loads placed downstream, the more stable it was. Very lossy, though. One of the advantages to 3 Ø motors is near-full torque starting and near instant reversing. No internal switches or capacitors involved.
Very true. You could get the motor rewound to compensate, but by then you should just get a purpose-built converter like what you have.No fuss, no worries.
Happy you've managed to get a sponsorship Keith, the RPCs ain't cheap. So really nice of them, and frankly very business savvy, you win more people over with good deeds.
Win-win-win situation, American Rotary get some publicity, the viewers get a discount, and your shop has more than enough power. Very exciting, can't wait to get details on the install, and man would it be nice to see that Monarch powered as designed. I am miles from anything industrial, but even if you have it local its cost prohibitive. A buddy has a shop up in Ocala that has three phase on the pole at the street and the power company wanted $20k to hook his shop up.
That's the problem, in the US, three phase is considered "industrial" and even if you can get it hooked up, you pay through the nose for the hook up and usually pay a higher rate for the power as well....
Congratulations on the converter! American Rotary makes some high quality stuff -- I'm sure the sponsorship will be fruitful for both parties. Looking forward to seeing it get set up.
Congratulations Keith, very happy to know you have your power needs cover. I have been following you build your new shop and I excited to see how things are working out for you. Please keep with the good work, you are a great inspiration for us!
Great deal Keith. You really did need this. I know you were a bit concerned with power needs on those two big toys you got, so this is awesome. Congrats!!! Quality sponsorship is always helpful!
Nice! I just puchased and installed an American Rotary Converter 6 days ago for my Bridgeport type mill. It's works beautifully! The mill has power like it never had with the static phase converter, and the mill motor runs so much cooler. The American PC idler motor is so quite and their products look to be high quality. I guess I missed the discount by a week lol. I'm thinking your going to be very happy with yours 👍
Awesome piece of kit, opens so many doors to the home machinist. Great job on the Sponsor also, nice to see companies that aren't all take but give as well.
Nice acquisition Keith and congrats on the sponsor. I swear you have more potential content every time I watch your vids lol. I would imagine you have more content than you'll ever run videos on. My father in law is a master electrician and I've watched him mess around with three phase equipment. It's very interesting stuff. Can't wait to see more.
Channel sponsor! Nice! I think I've come around to agree with you on the rotary phase converters. They have their place for sure. Lets see it in place!
Congrats. on the new converter, it looks like the best for your shop, I use to deal with motor drives a the plant, but your rotary is the best way to go.
Nice unit! I have a home brew one made with a big used motor to power my Bridgeport. It's been going strong for years. I'm sure yours will work great. That sure is a lot of machinery you plan on getting in there.
Congratulations on the sponsorship! I have a couple of small homemade RPCs in my shop. They do a nice job and I have a bunch less money in them. However being able to run a 20 HP motor would be very cool! All the best! Mike
Please by all means Keith show us the guts of that Rotary Converter. I have always wanted to see what is going on in there. That is one fab asset mate.
What a score Keith! Shop's getting off on the right foot with that brand new phase converter. Going with one that's professionally built eliminates all the unknowns that come with trying to cobble together a bigger one yourself. Not to mention I gather that getting a 3-phase 40 HP motor that's in decent enough shape to use as the core for a home-built unit would cost so much, the pro-built American Rotary one becomes the cheaper option! And now you'll be able to, as you said, put a 20 HP motor in that giant Monarch lathe if you find one. Not that you'll necessarily be making the huge cuts the 20 horse motor will permit, but the lathe will likely draw less amps with the bigger motor with the lighter cutting you'll mostly be doing, and have the full cutting power when a BIG JOB comes in for it. Well done on the classy presentation of the sponsor in American Rotary. Putting their advert stickers in a few places in the background of the shop will give them the good screentime. ^^
that is a really nice addition to your new shop Keith . the power pole right outside my house has 3 phase but its going to cost $16,000 to get it conected to my workshop , considering my shop is hardly big enough for the single phase equipment i have its not really worth the expense .
Totally sweet awesome Keith. I figured if you didn't win one, you'd get one. Love to see 20HP back on your new machine. Maybe strike up a deal on a motor supplier to give you a break on a big one. Bad news, is that there are no really good motor shops around here so i have to send em south. good luck for ya'll
I am very fortunate to have a good small town, locally owned motor shop that has been in business for probably something like 60 years. I am good friends with the owners and they have helped me out on many occasions. They have a Baldor grinder motor right now that they are working on for me....
Kudos to American Rotary for their support to you , Keith! To my fellow fans, you should like and share this video to all of your friends to help Keith show American Rotary, that they made a good choice by sponsoring our man, Keith! Yes Keith, I'm looking forward to the install too. I actually thought this was a video on the Le Blond repair, but I know that's coming too! Cheers, Rich
As others have said - I'm also not a fan of sponsored content, it usually comes off clunky and I find another video. That said, American Rotary is really great to deal with and customer service is perfect. I had both a delivery and install issue and they stepped up and kept in contact until everything was perfect. Couldn't have made a better impression. Good to see the contributors get some kick back for all they provide, just don't let it get too infomercial - banner on the wall and a good word is fine.
It is very common in the US [and Canada, it's an interconnected grid with shared standards and practices], that side-roads and rural areas with residential loads have single phase distribution. That is because these roads are long, often very long, and the loads are relatively light. So it's a big saving to install half the conductors: two [one hot and one neutral] instead of four [three hot and one neutral]. The feeder [feeder is the term for a distribution circuit from the substation that you see at the top of a power pole] is easily balanced by tapping the lightest-loaded phase at every further downstream branch point.
Yep, it is an infrastructure issue as well as a huge cost savings for the power companies to not run three phase everywhere. But boy would it be nice to have three phase in my home.
jona jon Standard service for homes is single-phase, even though three-phase may be available at the curb. Single-phase service is ~230V, but it's from a centre-tapped transformer where the tap is neutral and bonded to ground. That gives you two hot legs at ~115V, 180 degrees apart.
That is worth mentioning. I said it wrong (I knew the number but it came out wrong). I added an annotation to correct my mistake but it does not show up on everybody screen.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Hi Keith, it didn't show up for me but it's a small detail. Many congratulations on the sponsorship and for educating so many people with your skills. You deserve recognition for your hard work!
Congrats on the phase converter and the sponsorship - and - I appreciate the discount for us that you worked into the deal! Have you discussed the advantages/disadvantages of a static converter against the rotary, and VFD phase converters in a different video? I just purchase a 1hp bridgeport and it comes with a static phase converter and I am curious how it will work down the road.
Also, static converters are not nearly as well balanced as a rotary and there is considerable power loss - your motor will probably not provide the full rated HP when ran on a static converter.
Very nice.... Having it outside will be nice for less heat as well. The advantage of 3 phase motors is greater horsepower in a smaller package . The phases are 120 degrees apart
.......congrats n all counts.........if your going to do it it.....do it right!.......the shop is getting better everyday......I see big things coming.......lots of the better used machines are 3phase, and usually cheaper.........passed over by small shops or hobbyist due to power issues.......
even in europe where i live it's not normal to have three phase power in a residential area, but it is always possible to have that installed, though depending on the distance from the local powerhub or transformer station it will cost you several grand to have it installed to your house. No persuasion but cold hard cash. In our shop in a Industrial area where we have 3 phase directly off the street, it even costed about 9000 euro to have an extra 3phase coming in from the sidewalk since we were maxing out with our current machines and wanted to add one more machine to the shop. that did not include the installation of an extra brakerbox and wires inside the shop. Getting that in a residential area would cost waaaaayyyyy more, so for small shops it is really worth it to get a rotary phase converter, as it is in your case.If your shop was much bigger and had several machines running all day, it would be a different story but you made the right choice.again, i still envy your shop and really appreciate the american way of making due with wat's on hand and making that work for you, with or without sponsors.Nice job.
I am in Holland and getting 3ph to my workshop costs an arm and a leg (running cable and installation costs) and you have to pay yearly user fee around 800 Euro. I only have 16 amp single ph in my hobby shop and purchased a rotary phase converter in UK for 900 Euro. It gives me 2200 W of true 3 x 380V +N+E and i can power all my 3 ph equipment. My main mill is a Sixis 103 and total installed power is about 2 kW on this machine and it runs perfectly. Also my grinding machine, drill, shaper can run from this rotary. It is a wonderfull cost effective piece of machinery and actually very quiet. I have a hobby shop and only use one machine at the time.
I am pretty sure that they use Baldor too. I have not opened it up to see though. Still need to get this hooked up and running but getting closer to that every day....
Perhaps it's been asked already below but the comments aren't searchable. Which particular model did you get? American Rotary has different units within the same overall power level. I'm looking to buy one large enough to run a 10 HP motor.
Congrats on the sponsorship Keith! Happy for you :) I wonder if Phase Perfect converters will become more popular in home shops in the near future. I am certainly considering one given I might have more CNC machines in the future. Daniel
This will certainly be better/easier, in the long run, than having to run the two smaller converters in parallel to run the larger (or multiple) machines. I'd still be interested in seeing how the two would be set up to work together, though, if you happen to find an opportunity to dovetail that in somewhere.
Keith, I notice that neither you nor Stan Z mention the efficiency factor in comparing the VFD to rotary. In my case, I use to have (early '80"s) a rotary PC to drive an 850 RPM 3 PH motor on my drill press (850 RPM motors are not available in single phase). That rotary (not AR) pulled 4 amps @ 240 volts with no motor turned on. A lot of wasted power doing nothing. I sold it and used a VFD instead. Granted, in your case, you don't have much choice. Hopefully, your new unit's efficiency is greatly improved over what I had. I would be curious to know what your unit draws with no motor being used. Also, what amperage power do you have feeding your new shop? Pete
Once I get it hooked up, I plan to check and see how much it is drawing. A VFD is probably more efficient on small motors, but for running an entire shop, they just are not practical and are way too expensive for the HP I would need.
yeah but what do i use for a single phase house converting to three phase with a induction heater, and i think i need something to spark frequency, is this the same as a motor supply? or can i just use vfd? does a motor feed back extra phases? how bigger motor for to supply 20kva?
Looks like a great addition to the shop! I personally would build a little "roof" for it if it's mounted outside. Something with simple shingles if it's ok to do so. Just a little insurance against the worst weather. Looking forward to the install video! :-)
Are there any permitting requirements for installation in your life area? I live in Richland, Michigan and the county requires a permit to make any, and I do mean any, changes to the existing circuitry. Each outlet costs $5.00 per receptacle installed. If you are found to have done work without the permit they will fine you heavily and force the removal of the work. When I installed my new service I had over $100.00 in permits for just the panel installation.
Wow, talk about big brother.... So, as for permits, when I got my building permit, I did have to get a permit to put electrical in the new shop. It came with a fee (about $100). Before I could have the panel hooked up to a meter, the county inspector had to come and look it over. It is no problem for me (a non certified electrician) to do work for myself, but I cannot do it for others. They came and did the inspection, which basically just looked to make sure that everything was grounded properly and there were no major code violations. Once that is done, I can do whatever I want without any permits or inspections.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Good for you. I put in my own service panel and connected the house to it on the permit like you did. My Dad was a 1A Electrical Contractor and I was his apprentice. Before I moved to Richland I never had a problem, in Coldwater, Quincy, and Union City, the original permit for the service read "and connections to existing circuits." I could continue installing what I needed.
Just some FYIs The main advantage to three phase is that a rotating magnetic field is easy to establish to induce current in the rotor to get it to start with no special circuitry. Also power is continuous and does not drop to zero once every cycle. A generator is a device that converts mechanical energy to electrical. There is no mechanical energy input to the system so I think what you have here is a rotary transformer. The magnetic filed in the rotor going by the third winding produces a current flow. The small motor just spins the main rotor to establish a current flow/magnetic field in the main rotor and is cut out after it starts.
Great explanation for the layman that the motor basically becomes a 3 phased generator. It makes sense that you could have a gasoline powered 3 phased generator but this is nothing more than an electrical powered 3 phased generator.
Yep, that is pretty much the gist of it. Of course, my explanation is very simplified, there is a lot going on besides just that with capacitors and such to balance the load.
2 phase 220/240 VAC is what enters your house and it is split into two inverse single phase supplies for 110/120 VAC circuits (lights, most outlets, light appliances). There are also circuits that use the 220/240 VAC 2-phase power (central air, heavy appliances). Since he built the shop and knew he needed 3-phase power, why didn't he have the utility hook him up both 3-phase and 2-phase service? Was the converter that much easier?
First off, a house is not powered with 2 phase. 2 phase is still used in some parts of the US, but it is very rare and is considered to be pretty much obsolete - two phase is two hot lines with the phase 180 degrees apart. What is fed into most residential homes in two legs off of a three phase service with the three legs 120 degrees apart. It is not the same thing. Even though you have two of the three legs, it is considered to be 220v single phase power (110 v on each of the two legs coming in). As for why I did not ask for three phase, I would have loved to have that fed right into the shop. But it is not that simple. Three phase power is just not everywhere - particularly in residential areas. In my neighborhood, I do not have three phase power at the street - only 220v single phase. To have three phase power, I would have had to convince the power company to bring in three phase service over 1/2 mile from the main road where they have three phase. Not an economical option for me - just like it is not for many people who have a home shop. In these situations, a rotary phase converter is an economical way of creating your own three phase power, and that is what I opted to do.
It is a pity that your street is set up like that. I was wrong about the phases, instead it should be 220/240 VAC single phase between the hots in the higher voltage home circuits. I do have to ask, is a rotary converter more economical than a Scott-T transformer or do you have uneven loads in some of the equipment?
Well, first off, let me correct myself - two phase power is two legs at 90 degrees apart rather than 180 degrees like I said. I am not that familuar with at Scott T-Transformer, but I don't think it is of much help in this situation - that is for converting three phase from true two phase. Again, since I do not have two phase, I don't think it would work (but I may be wrong - I quite honestly have never seen anybody use this method before, which makes be believe it is not applicable for converting single phase to three phase).
I hope we get a video of this thing running! the one in our shop was so loud we couldn't speak, and it was starting to cause fights because everybody had to be shouting to be heard at all, clearly and outdoor solution is a lot better. Also I think you should try to pull together the knowledge base on exactly what sorts of loads a converter like this is capable of, last time I read up on it it was something like "an idle generator of Xhp can spin up an unloaded motor of Xhp, or up to 3Xhp smaller motors", sizing a unit for your needs can be complicated, I guess you won't have such a problem as by yourself you won't have a lot of machines running at the same time.
Nice piece of kit. I think you meant to say that the three phases are 120 degrees, not 180. You should also include a link to American Rotary in your description, so its easy to click on
Hello Keith! When you install your circuit breaker box for your rotary phase converter will you please make a video on it? I am curious as to your choice of breaker(s) that you plan to use and the overall setup. I work for Schneider Electric and work a lot with Square D Power Pact 3 pole circuit breakers and Motor Control Centers. Thanks for the great videos sir!
I'm very interested in this, and will be following it closely...I have a very old (1980) ARCO rotary phase converter...10Horse....nothing in the control cabinet except 6 big capacitors....I used it for 3 years to run a weld shop....It Ran a Lincoln SAE200 MG set, a15 horse chopsaw....Now...these VFD's...Do then actually provide true 3 phase from single, and are they phase correct at 120 degrees?
You still have a slight variation in phase on each of the legs. But, line power will too. For running a motor, or for that matter, most machines in a machine shop, this is not a problem. When you start getting into electronics, it can be an issue. Which is why most CNC machines have a VFD built into them even if connecting to line power off the grid. But, you can use a much smaller VFD to clean things up as you have to overrate a VFD by about 50% when it is being used to convert single phase to three phase. This can get *real expensive* on larger HP machines. I do use a couple of VFD's in my shop but I am feeding them with three phase from the RPC.
Hi Keith: I would be interested in a RPC in the IA Series of about 40/50 HP multiple combined loads. The problem is, that I have equipment in the 575V 3PH /440V 3PH/ 220V 3PH range and I don't see anything higher than 440V. I have no doubt that in your present equipment, you also have 575V machines given that is the most common industrial voltage. How did you solve that requirement? Cheers Jorge
First off, I would call American Rotary and talk to them about this. I am sure that they have run into these kinds of issues before and may be able to help you with a work around. As for 575v machines, I do not have any. I have dealt with 220/440 issues, but in most cases, you can wire a motor to run off of either 220v or 440v, so I will just change a few wires around to get everything running on 220v. On occasion, I have had to take a 440v motor to a motor shop and have them do their magic to get it running on the voltage I want. You can of course always use a transformer to step voltage up or down to what you need and while I have never had to resort to that, I know of plenty of people who use a transformer to get the voltage they need.
Thank you Keith for your prompt response. If that is the case, it looks simple enough. However, I wonder if there are any losses in power, or performance by running at a lower voltage. As for RPCs in 575V, I believe that there are companies that offer that option. Also, custom RPCs maybe would increase price considerably. Here in Canada, most industrial equipment is 575V.
Very cool, and well deserved! I hope your single phase intake has plenty of amps, though. A 20 hp motor will draw amps in the 30's I guess, so your breakers will be quite heavy duty, with thick cabling to go. Good luck, and looking forward to install videos :-)
I am looking forward to getting to the point in my shop project where I can hook it up. Right now, everything in my shop is focused on installing a ceiling. The phase convert is next on the list!
hay i like your video's. A story Years a go there was here in the Netherlands a company with the same problem. He had his workshop in rural areas, there was only 220 volt available. The man bought a huge battery bank 24 12 volt batteries with a enormus 380-volt 3 phase inverter. The batteries are charged by a huge 220 volt charger.
The energy network was too weak, 220volt 16Amp. Because the long distance from the main cable. For tough jobs he started before the generator with a 6 cylinder DAF diesel engine. It was a good system if he needed much power then it was available. The battery charger kept the batteries good full. I'm talking about 15/20 years ago. maybe he has now power flow.
Congrats on both the converter and the sponsor Keith! Don't forget there's one more way to convert, static phase converters. Not the best way to go, but it is an option. Rotary's far better of course.
Static would be ok for fractional HP up to a couple of HP, basically they're a non variable VFD... and a VFD in that case would be a better idea, methinks :)
Ok, I need to get into this, how can a squirrel cage induction motor generate a voltage without the use of excitation? The rotor is simple bars that are shorted, one would need an armature instead of rotor to generate a voltage.
Before i know your Channel, i don't know the power Problems for small Shops in USA. Interesting to know, but makes me feel sorry for you Guys. :-( Here in Germany its normal to have 3 Phase at 380V(400V) in almost every Building. My Dad runs a small Shop with CNC lathe and miling. We have 100 Amps on every Phase for Main Circuit Breaker. Greetings from Germany and keep up the good work! PS: Sorry for bad english!
Most of Western Europe has been like this since the 1940's. You wouldn't believe how many across North America are jealous of you. One quirk was Canada's adoption of 3 Phase - 550 Volt electric motors, which are not used in the U.S. We were whacky and arguably, still are.
Keith, For those on other countries used to 3 phase power: 1. In some places here in the US you can't even get it in a residential neighborhood 2. If you CAN get it you are going to pay BIG TIME MONEY for it
Very true on both accounts. The electrical companies try their best to keep three phase out of residential areas and even if it is on the pole outside your house, they don't like to run it in except for commercial accounts. And even if you can get it, you usually have to pay commercial rates for your electricity which is higher than residential rates.
and that commercial rate is not trivial....I've heard it can be four or five figures per MONTH in some cases. I know you hate showing electrical work but I'd like to see everything that went into getting that converter up and powering your shop!
At the factory where i work we use vfd's just for speed control, we got some medium sized ones rated at something like 75 or a 100kw. They are extremely expensive pieces of kit.
The big ones are out of the price range for most of us home shop guys to just use for three phase conversion. That is the beauty of the phase converters!
Keith, you looked like a kid on Christmas morning with that RPC. Of course, the only difference between being a kid and an adult is the toys get bigger.
My problem is that my kids and wife want stuff too. Here lately, my insulation fund has been growing very slowly because of things like "new school cloths" and "college tuition". Come on, don't they understand that I am trying to build a shop?!?
How can you tap 40 HP from a single phase? the supply Cable to the house and the fuse must be something extra.If you run on 110 V that should be around 150-200 A.
150 amps is needed to power it. It won't use that much except maybe for a brief moment if I am starting a big motor under a load. It is pushing the limits of the power I have in the shop, but I should be fine.
Nice piece of equipment. If I were closer to you I would volunteer my time to help get the new shop up and running. I like the videos from the museum fine, but the new shop should have much better lighting and more room for better camera angles. And the restored lathe is going to look sweet on camera making chips.
I would sure welcome your help! Right now, it is money slowing me down more than anything else. Trying to save up some cash to put my insulation in.....
Confusion a rotary phase converter is a rotating device while a phase converter is a static device. I was waiting to see the commissioning to see which one was installed, but to no avail. So which one is installed.
hello Keith just wondering if American rotary sent you a nice bag of Wisconsin air along with your converter? was 105 with a heat index of 119 in my neighborhood Friday before airventure. thought about bagging some for you but just couldn't bring myself to go outside and do it. besides that would be kind of mean as you have plenty of your own. after much research and speaking with american rotary that is what I chose for my home shop. great people and support. Dave in wi.
It is always embarrassing to do a good video, finish it and then hear a slip of the tongue! The explanation of three phase machinery is very well done!
Keith, very happy to see American Rotary step up. I truly think this is a win-win for everyone. They get extremely valuable product placement advertising, you get power for your dream shop, and your viewers get good advice on their needs. I am an electrical engineer with over 40 years in power generation and distribution experience, and I can tell you there is so much misinformation out there about phase converters.
It is good to see companies recognize the value of seeing their products on TH-cam. As long as the products that are showcased are something you would actually purchase and use, I have no issue with commercialization. You are a truthful and stand up guy, I know you will handle this in a good way.
Thanks Bill!
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org think you very much
Couldn't happen to a better person. Glad to see you have what you need. An old commercial electrician sent me a diagram of how to build one of these. I may have the parts to make one for my brother who is a printer. His paper shear had a three phase motor on the hydraulic pump. He changed it out to single phase but has some issues so I may fix him up. Thanks Keith, Greg.
You can buy a complete unit for about what it would cost to buy all the parts to make your own.
I currently just have an extra 3 phase motor sitting on the floor. 220 running on that's switched. I kick the shaft to get the motor turning. Turn on the power and I have enough of a 3rd wave created (I've never put a scope on it (that's waiting to get repaired too) to see what the wave looks like) to start/run my mill, lathe, and car lift. If the motor on my car lift (it's mechanical with a big screw on each side) doesn't have enough power to lift from a dead stop, I can run my mill and the starting power on the lift motor is increased.
I walked into a used machinery store looking for a converter. The owner told me how to make what I described above.
Great to see you getting some commercial backing. We out here in "Tubeland" appreciate your efforts and are happy to return the favor by working with people that help you do what you do.
Thank you!
Wow Keith, that's amazing - congratulations!
I live in rural Croatia where 3 phase is fed into most homes. Coming from the UK this is strange magic to me, there are even 3 phase domestic cookers, of course I found this out the hard way...
You are fortunate!
Well, I would be if the supply was stable (we measured one phase for a week, should be 230 but fluctuated between 180 volts and 245) and dependable (we average one power outage a month, often only one phase). I really wouldn't like to try and power anything more demanding than a cooker on this!
Edit: since I wrote this a week ago we've had 3 power outs - one accompanied by a loud bang and an electrical burning smell outside, I think the substation blew up again.
That is great. I am glad Chris hooked you up, he is a good guy. I have been enjoying my American rotary 50hp AI for a couple of months now and really like how much quieter it is than my old one was.
I can't wait to get it all hooked up!
This is the classiest advertisement/sponsor type video on You Tube. If I ever have a need for one I will certainly consider American Rotary. I appreciate them sponsoring this channel allowing Keith to improve this channel
Thank you, they are great to work with at American Rotary.
Congrats on the sponsor Keith.Those guys at AR know great talent when they see it. Couldn't go to a more deserving guy. That's gotta be a huge help with your shop,which will help all of us viewers enjoy your channel and learn even more from you.Good job !
Thanks!
Wow Keith, it's great that you managed to negotiate a 10% discount for viewers and get sponsorship for the channel. You've worked hard building up the channel and you deserve to get something back. You could have been out working instead of doing videos and I bet that you spent quite a fair bit of money out of your pocket over the years. I think that you will be much happier with the phase converter. Since your a one man operation, I can't imagine that you will have more than two machines running at one time and that will only occur rarely.
You are right about multiple machines - it is rare that I would have more than one running at a time. But with this converter, I should be set to go for a long time to come!
Wow! was just in contact with American rotary after their support of the Summer bash. I am in the market for a 15hp model and will watch your progress, Again another thank you American Rotary for their support of the You Tube community and I will confirm my support with a purchase.
Give them a shot - they will take good care of you. And now you can get a 10% Discount to boot!
Finally winter is here and I had time to wire up and got to do a trial run of my 2 speed 2.5hp / 5hp 14x40 republic lathe. The wiring of the rotary converter was easy yet I had a question after hours and was surprised when someone answered the phone and assured I was on the right tract. After learning all the correct start-up limit switches on my new (used) lathe I was off and running. Got my discount, pleased with the service and proud to purchase American Made with "Baldor" motor.
Grats on getting such a fine machine, sponsor and deal!
Somewhere I have an old Fine Woodworking book with how to make your own 3 Ø converter using any old 3 Ø motor. It still needed a kick motor to get it going, but the more loads placed downstream, the more stable it was. Very lossy, though. One of the advantages to 3 Ø motors is near-full torque starting and near instant reversing. No internal switches or capacitors involved.
You can make a home made one, and it will work, but you probably won't get as nicely a balanced system as a commercial model.
Very true. You could get the motor rewound to compensate, but by then you should just get a purpose-built converter like what you have.No fuss, no worries.
Happy you've managed to get a sponsorship Keith, the RPCs ain't cheap. So really nice of them, and frankly very business savvy, you win more people over with good deeds.
Thank you!
Win-win-win situation, American Rotary get some publicity, the viewers get a discount, and your shop has more than enough power. Very exciting, can't wait to get details on the install, and man would it be nice to see that Monarch powered as designed. I am miles from anything industrial, but even if you have it local its cost prohibitive. A buddy has a shop up in Ocala that has three phase on the pole at the street and the power company wanted $20k to hook his shop up.
That's the problem, in the US, three phase is considered "industrial" and even if you can get it hooked up, you pay through the nose for the hook up and usually pay a higher rate for the power as well....
Congratulations on the converter! American Rotary makes some high quality stuff -- I'm sure the sponsorship will be fruitful for both parties. Looking forward to seeing it get set up.
Thanks Joe!
Congratulations Keith, very happy to know you have your power needs cover. I have been following you build your new shop and I excited to see how things are working out for you. Please keep with the good work, you are a great inspiration for us!
Thank you!
Great deal Keith. You really did need this. I know you were a bit concerned with power needs on those two big toys you got, so this is awesome. Congrats!!! Quality sponsorship is always helpful!
Thank you - I am excited!
Congratulations on the converter and the sponsorship! Very nice video.
Thank you!
Nice! I just puchased and installed an American Rotary Converter 6 days ago for my Bridgeport type mill. It's works beautifully! The mill has power like it never had with the static phase converter, and the mill motor runs so much cooler. The American PC idler motor is so quite and their products look to be high quality. I guess I missed the discount by a week lol. I'm thinking your going to be very happy with yours 👍
A proper variable-speed Bridgeport is a beautiful thing.
I hate you missed the opportunity to get the discount - I should have made my video sooner! Glad to hear that you are happy with their product.
Awesome piece of kit, opens so many doors to the home machinist. Great job on the Sponsor also, nice to see companies that aren't all take but give as well.
They guys at American Rotary have been super to work with!
Things are starting to come together Keith. Congratulations on your sponsorship with American Rotary. Later
Thank you!
Congratulations on the sponsorship Keith, can't wait to see the vids on the process and installation of that beast.
Thanks, looking forward to getting it all hooked up!
Congrats on American Rotary sponsoring!
They are good folks!
Nice acquisition Keith and congrats on the sponsor. I swear you have more potential content every time I watch your vids lol. I would imagine you have more content than you'll ever run videos on. My father in law is a master electrician and I've watched him mess around with three phase equipment. It's very interesting stuff. Can't wait to see more.
There is always something going on around here!
Channel sponsor! Nice! I think I've come around to agree with you on the rotary phase converters. They have their place for sure. Lets see it in place!
Hope to get it all hooked up very soon!
Congratulations on the sponsor Keith. That unit looks like it will work well for your shop.
Thanks Bill!
Congrats. on the new converter, it looks like the best for your shop, I use to deal with motor drives a the plant, but your rotary is the best way to go.
Thanks Joe, I really like using a RPC for the home shop.
Nice unit! I have a home brew one made with a big used motor to power my Bridgeport. It's been going strong for years. I'm sure yours will work great. That sure is a lot of machinery you plan on getting in there.
I can't wait to get it all up and going!
Congratulations on acquiring your sponsor. Thanks for the discount. Good video.
Thanks - I am excited on many fronts!
Congratulations on the sponsorship! I have a couple of small homemade RPCs in my shop. They do a nice job and I have a bunch less money in them. However being able to run a 20 HP motor would be very cool!
All the best!
Mike
This unit is so much better in so many ways from my old home made unit!
Please by all means Keith show us the guts of that Rotary Converter. I have always wanted to see what is going on in there. That is one fab asset mate.
Will do - it is nothing fancy but when I go to wire it all up, I will sure give you guys a peek....
Keith,
Very good repair. Yes, there are other ways, but this suited you and it worked that's all that matters.
Thanks for the video.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff!
What a score Keith! Shop's getting off on the right foot with that brand new phase converter. Going with one that's professionally built eliminates all the unknowns that come with trying to cobble together a bigger one yourself. Not to mention I gather that getting a 3-phase 40 HP motor that's in decent enough shape to use as the core for a home-built unit would cost so much, the pro-built American Rotary one becomes the cheaper option! And now you'll be able to, as you said, put a 20 HP motor in that giant Monarch lathe if you find one. Not that you'll necessarily be making the huge cuts the 20 horse motor will permit, but the lathe will likely draw less amps with the bigger motor with the lighter cutting you'll mostly be doing, and have the full cutting power when a BIG JOB comes in for it.
Well done on the classy presentation of the sponsor in American Rotary. Putting their advert stickers in a few places in the background of the shop will give them the good screentime. ^^
Thanks, I am glad to have them on board!
that is a really nice addition to your new shop Keith . the power pole right outside my house has 3 phase but its going to cost $16,000 to get it conected to my workshop , considering my shop is hardly big enough for the single phase equipment i have its not really worth the expense .
That's the problem - even if you can get the power company to connect, they charge an arm and leg...
Congratulations Keith. Also American Rotary Thumbs up guys.
Thanks Steve!
Your shop is coming along nicely. I like!
Thanks!
Totally sweet awesome Keith. I figured if you didn't win one, you'd get one. Love to see 20HP back on your new machine. Maybe strike up a deal on a motor supplier to give you a break on a big one. Bad news, is that there are no really good motor shops around here so i have to send em south. good luck for ya'll
I am very fortunate to have a good small town, locally owned motor shop that has been in business for probably something like 60 years. I am good friends with the owners and they have helped me out on many occasions. They have a Baldor grinder motor right now that they are working on for me....
That is one heavy duty unit Keith .. WOW .. Thumbs up !!
Thanks!
Should work great for your shop. Glad you mentioned the noise & space they take up. Great explanation of phase converters!
Thanks Mike!
Kudos to American Rotary for their support to you , Keith! To my fellow fans, you should like and share this video to all of your friends to help Keith show American Rotary, that they made a good choice by sponsoring our man, Keith!
Yes Keith, I'm looking forward to the install too. I actually thought this was a video on the Le Blond repair, but I know that's coming too!
Cheers,
Rich
I will try and get the LeBlond video out in the next day or two. Got to edit it all up....
As others have said - I'm also not a fan of sponsored content, it usually comes off clunky and I find another video.
That said, American Rotary is really great to deal with and customer service is perfect. I had both a delivery and install issue and they stepped up and kept in contact until everything was perfect. Couldn't have made a better impression.
Good to see the contributors get some kick back for all they provide, just don't let it get too infomercial - banner on the wall and a good word is fine.
Thanks!
Thanks Keith this is the way I want to run my machines & 10 % will help . Congrats on the sponsor
Thank you!
It is very common in the US [and Canada, it's an interconnected grid with shared standards and practices], that side-roads and rural areas with residential loads have single phase distribution. That is because these roads are long, often very long, and the loads are relatively light. So it's a big saving to install half the conductors: two [one hot and one neutral] instead of four [three hot and one neutral]. The feeder [feeder is the term for a distribution circuit from the substation that you see at the top of a power pole] is easily balanced by tapping the lightest-loaded phase at every further downstream branch point.
Yep, it is an infrastructure issue as well as a huge cost savings for the power companies to not run three phase everywhere. But boy would it be nice to have three phase in my home.
Don't most homes in cities still have 2 phase?
jona jon Standard service for homes is single-phase, even though three-phase may be available at the curb. Single-phase service is ~230V, but it's from a centre-tapped transformer where the tap is neutral and bonded to ground. That gives you two hot legs at ~115V, 180 degrees apart.
very cool. I'm going to look in to it. I'm glad I can get a discount also.
Give them a call, they will take good care of you!
Great videos Keith! One small hit, hardly worth mentioning is that three phase is 120 degrees apart, American twin phase is 180 degrees apart.
That is worth mentioning. I said it wrong (I knew the number but it came out wrong). I added an annotation to correct my mistake but it does not show up on everybody screen.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Hi Keith, it didn't show up for me but it's a small detail. Many congratulations on the sponsorship and for educating so many people with your skills. You deserve recognition for your hard work!
Congrats on the phase converter and the sponsorship - and - I appreciate the discount for us that you worked into the deal!
Have you discussed the advantages/disadvantages of a static converter against the rotary, and VFD phase converters in a different video? I just purchase a 1hp bridgeport and it comes with a static phase converter and I am curious how it will work down the road.
Static works, but it is all done through capacitors. Uses a lot more energy and is not as efficient, but it works.
Also, static converters are not nearly as well balanced as a rotary and there is considerable power loss - your motor will probably not provide the full rated HP when ran on a static converter.
Wow, ok thanks!
Are you going to mount this outside or inside your shop? You may want to power it up to see how much noise it makes before deciding.
Keith mentioned outdoors, so yes outdoors it will be.
It is going to outside the shop. I will probably pour a small pad for it to sit on.
Sweet. Looking forward to seeing the install. Also looking forward to seeing the monarch back up to full horsepower!
Thanks!
Very nice.... Having it outside will be nice for less heat as well. The advantage of 3 phase motors is greater horsepower in a smaller package . The phases are 120 degrees apart
Yes, on the phases, a slip of the tongue...
Great video information and really nice that American Rotary is going to give a 10% discount
WOW! So nice for you and couldn't happen to a nicer person.
Thank you!
.......congrats n all counts.........if your going to do it it.....do it right!.......the shop is getting better everyday......I see big things coming.......lots of the better used machines are 3phase, and usually cheaper.........passed over by small shops or hobbyist due to power issues.......
Which is why that if you want to be serious as a hobbyist machinist, you need to invest in a phase converter!
Congrats on getting a sponsor!
Thank you!
How do you run a 40 hp phase converter motor on your little residential service?
I run two wires to it from my breaker box. 200 amps is more than enough to power this converter.
even in europe where i live it's not normal to have three phase power in a residential area, but it is always possible to have that installed, though depending on the distance from the local powerhub or transformer station it will cost you several grand to have it installed to your house. No persuasion but cold hard cash. In our shop in a Industrial area where we have 3 phase directly off the street, it even costed about 9000 euro to have an extra 3phase coming in from the sidewalk since we were maxing out with our current machines and wanted to add one more machine to the shop. that did not include the installation of an extra brakerbox and wires inside the shop. Getting that in a residential area would cost waaaaayyyyy more, so for small shops it is really worth it to get a rotary phase converter, as it is in your case.If your shop was much bigger and had several machines running all day, it would be a different story but you made the right choice.again, i still envy your shop and really appreciate the american way of making due with wat's on hand and making that work for you, with or without sponsors.Nice job.
Thank you!
I am in Holland and getting 3ph to my workshop costs an arm and a leg (running cable and installation costs) and you have to pay yearly user fee around 800 Euro. I only have 16 amp single ph in my hobby shop and purchased a rotary phase converter in UK for 900 Euro. It gives me 2200 W of true 3 x 380V +N+E and i can power all my 3 ph equipment. My main mill is a Sixis 103 and total installed power is about 2 kW on this machine and it runs perfectly. Also my grinding machine, drill, shaper can run from this rotary. It is a wonderfull cost effective piece of machinery and actually very quiet. I have a hobby shop and only use one machine at the time.
Sweet piece of Equipment there. That's awesome that they sent you the Industrial model, I think they use nice Baldor motors too
I am pretty sure that they use Baldor too. I have not opened it up to see though. Still need to get this hooked up and running but getting closer to that every day....
Perhaps it's been asked already below but the comments aren't searchable. Which particular model did you get? American Rotary has different units within the same overall power level. I'm looking to buy one large enough to run a 10 HP motor.
A super upgrade for a not yet completed shop. A great sponsor, congratulations! You'll be a "happy camper".
....13
Thank you!
Congrats on the sponsorship Keith! Happy for you :)
I wonder if Phase Perfect converters will become more popular in home shops in the near future. I am certainly considering one given I might have more CNC machines in the future. Daniel
Anybody who gets serious with machinery in a home shop will soon want to have three phase. It opens up a whole new world of possibilities!
This will certainly be better/easier, in the long run, than having to run the two smaller converters in parallel to run the larger (or multiple) machines. I'd still be interested in seeing how the two would be set up to work together, though, if you happen to find an opportunity to dovetail that in somewhere.
This will be a much better solution, and will still have more power available than what I was planning on building.
Keith, I notice that neither you nor Stan Z mention the efficiency factor in comparing the VFD to rotary. In my case, I use to have (early '80"s) a rotary PC to drive an 850 RPM 3 PH motor on my drill press (850 RPM motors are not available in single phase). That rotary (not AR) pulled 4 amps @ 240 volts with no motor turned on. A lot of wasted power doing nothing. I sold it and used a VFD instead. Granted, in your case, you don't have much choice. Hopefully, your new unit's efficiency is greatly improved over what I had. I would be curious to know what your unit draws with no motor being used. Also, what amperage power do you have feeding your new shop?
Pete
Once I get it hooked up, I plan to check and see how much it is drawing. A VFD is probably more efficient on small motors, but for running an entire shop, they just are not practical and are way too expensive for the HP I would need.
yeah but what do i use for a single phase house converting to three phase with a induction heater, and i think i need something to spark frequency, is this the same as a motor supply? or can i just use vfd? does a motor feed back extra phases? how bigger motor for to supply 20kva?
Looks like a great addition to the shop! I personally would build a little "roof" for it if it's mounted outside. Something with simple shingles if it's ok to do so. Just a little insurance against the worst weather. Looking forward to the install video! :-)
I probably will do just that - been thinking on how to do it.
Are there any permitting requirements for installation in your life area? I live in Richland, Michigan and the county requires a permit to make any, and I do mean any, changes to the existing circuitry. Each outlet costs $5.00 per receptacle installed. If you are found to have done work without the permit they will fine you heavily and force the removal of the work.
When I installed my new service I had over $100.00 in permits for just the panel installation.
Wow, talk about big brother.... So, as for permits, when I got my building permit, I did have to get a permit to put electrical in the new shop. It came with a fee (about $100). Before I could have the panel hooked up to a meter, the county inspector had to come and look it over. It is no problem for me (a non certified electrician) to do work for myself, but I cannot do it for others. They came and did the inspection, which basically just looked to make sure that everything was grounded properly and there were no major code violations. Once that is done, I can do whatever I want without any permits or inspections.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Good for you. I put in my own service panel and connected the house to it on the permit like you did. My Dad was a 1A Electrical Contractor and I was his apprentice. Before I moved to Richland I never had a problem, in Coldwater, Quincy, and Union City, the original permit for the service read "and connections to existing circuits." I could continue installing what I needed.
Aw man, that's awesome Keith!
Thanks!
Just some FYIs
The main advantage to three phase is that a rotating magnetic field is easy to establish to induce current in the rotor to get it to start with no special circuitry. Also power is continuous and does not drop to zero once every cycle.
A generator is a device that converts mechanical energy to electrical. There is no mechanical energy input to the system so I think what you have here is a rotary transformer. The magnetic filed in the rotor going by the third winding produces a current flow. The small motor just spins the main rotor to establish a current flow/magnetic field in the main rotor and is cut out after it starts.
Like I said, my explanation was "over simplified" to get the point across.
Congratulations Keith! I was hoping you would have won the Rotary give away at the Bash!
This is a good alternative - I have one now that is really sized for my needs better!
Excellent instruction and view on single to 3 phase... thank you for sharing...
Great explanation for the layman that the motor basically becomes a 3 phased generator. It makes sense that you could have a gasoline powered 3 phased generator but this is nothing more than an electrical powered 3 phased generator.
Yep, that is pretty much the gist of it. Of course, my explanation is very simplified, there is a lot going on besides just that with capacitors and such to balance the load.
congrats on the score.
Thank you!
2 phase 220/240 VAC is what enters your house and it is split into two inverse single phase supplies for 110/120 VAC circuits (lights, most outlets, light appliances). There are also circuits that use the 220/240 VAC 2-phase power (central air, heavy appliances).
Since he built the shop and knew he needed 3-phase power, why didn't he have the utility hook him up both 3-phase and 2-phase service? Was the converter that much easier?
First off, a house is not powered with 2 phase. 2 phase is still used in some parts of the US, but it is very rare and is considered to be pretty much obsolete - two phase is two hot lines with the phase 180 degrees apart. What is fed into most residential homes in two legs off of a three phase service with the three legs 120 degrees apart. It is not the same thing. Even though you have two of the three legs, it is considered to be 220v single phase power (110 v on each of the two legs coming in).
As for why I did not ask for three phase, I would have loved to have that fed right into the shop. But it is not that simple. Three phase power is just not everywhere - particularly in residential areas. In my neighborhood, I do not have three phase power at the street - only 220v single phase. To have three phase power, I would have had to convince the power company to bring in three phase service over 1/2 mile from the main road where they have three phase. Not an economical option for me - just like it is not for many people who have a home shop. In these situations, a rotary phase converter is an economical way of creating your own three phase power, and that is what I opted to do.
It is a pity that your street is set up like that. I was wrong about the phases, instead it should be 220/240 VAC single phase between the hots in the higher voltage home circuits. I do have to ask, is a rotary converter more economical than a Scott-T transformer or do you have uneven loads in some of the equipment?
Well, first off, let me correct myself - two phase power is two legs at 90 degrees apart rather than 180 degrees like I said. I am not that familuar with at Scott T-Transformer, but I don't think it is of much help in this situation - that is for converting three phase from true two phase. Again, since I do not have two phase, I don't think it would work (but I may be wrong - I quite honestly have never seen anybody use this method before, which makes be believe it is not applicable for converting single phase to three phase).
I hope we get a video of this thing running! the one in our shop was so loud we couldn't speak, and it was starting to cause fights because everybody had to be shouting to be heard at all, clearly and outdoor solution is a lot better. Also I think you should try to pull together the knowledge base on exactly what sorts of loads a converter like this is capable of, last time I read up on it it was something like "an idle generator of Xhp can spin up an unloaded motor of Xhp, or up to 3Xhp smaller motors", sizing a unit for your needs can be complicated, I guess you won't have such a problem as by yourself you won't have a lot of machines running at the same time.
Nice piece of kit. I think you meant to say that the three phases are 120 degrees, not 180. You should also include a link to American Rotary in your description, so its easy to click on
I have gone back and added the link. I actually put one in but it looks like TH-cam stripped it off for some reason. Maybe it will stick this time...
Hello Keith! When you install your circuit breaker box for your rotary phase converter will you please make a video on it? I am curious as to your choice of breaker(s) that you plan to use and the overall setup. I work for Schneider Electric and work a lot with Square D Power Pact 3 pole circuit breakers and Motor Control Centers. Thanks for the great videos sir!
I will give you guys a general overview of what I do.
Sweet! I'll check em out right now.
Thanks!
I'm very interested in this, and will be following it closely...I have a very old (1980) ARCO rotary phase converter...10Horse....nothing in the control cabinet except 6 big capacitors....I used it for 3 years to run a weld shop....It Ran a Lincoln SAE200 MG set, a15 horse chopsaw....Now...these VFD's...Do then actually provide true 3 phase from single, and are they phase correct at 120 degrees?
You still have a slight variation in phase on each of the legs. But, line power will too. For running a motor, or for that matter, most machines in a machine shop, this is not a problem. When you start getting into electronics, it can be an issue. Which is why most CNC machines have a VFD built into them even if connecting to line power off the grid. But, you can use a much smaller VFD to clean things up as you have to overrate a VFD by about 50% when it is being used to convert single phase to three phase. This can get *real expensive* on larger HP machines. I do use a couple of VFD's in my shop but I am feeding them with three phase from the RPC.
Hi Keith:
I would be interested in a RPC in the IA Series of about 40/50 HP multiple combined loads. The problem is, that I have equipment in the 575V 3PH /440V 3PH/ 220V 3PH range and I don't see anything higher than 440V.
I have no doubt that in your present equipment, you also have 575V machines given that is the most common industrial voltage.
How did you solve that requirement?
Cheers
Jorge
First off, I would call American Rotary and talk to them about this. I am sure that they have run into these kinds of issues before and may be able to help you with a work around. As for 575v machines, I do not have any. I have dealt with 220/440 issues, but in most cases, you can wire a motor to run off of either 220v or 440v, so I will just change a few wires around to get everything running on 220v. On occasion, I have had to take a 440v motor to a motor shop and have them do their magic to get it running on the voltage I want. You can of course always use a transformer to step voltage up or down to what you need and while I have never had to resort to that, I know of plenty of people who use a transformer to get the voltage they need.
Thank you Keith for your prompt response. If that is the case, it looks simple enough. However, I wonder if there are any losses in power, or performance by running at a lower voltage. As for RPCs in 575V, I believe that there are companies that offer that option. Also, custom RPCs maybe would increase price considerably. Here in Canada, most industrial equipment is 575V.
nice addition to the job
Thank you!
Very cool, and well deserved! I hope your single phase intake has plenty of amps, though. A 20 hp motor will draw amps in the 30's I guess, so your breakers will be quite heavy duty, with thick cabling to go. Good luck, and looking forward to install videos :-)
Yes, but I should have plenty of power available.
So you have had you converter for a while now, how are the monthly operating costs
Thank you for this information< I can hardly wait to see this getting hooked up.
I am looking forward to getting to the point in my shop project where I can hook it up. Right now, everything in my shop is focused on installing a ceiling. The phase convert is next on the list!
hay i like your video's.
A story
Years a go there was here in the Netherlands a company with the same problem.
He had his workshop in rural areas, there was only 220 volt available. The man bought a huge battery bank 24 12 volt batteries with a enormus 380-volt 3 phase inverter.
The batteries are charged by a huge 220 volt charger.
Wow, you should tell him about rotary phase converters....
The energy network was too weak, 220volt 16Amp. Because the long distance from the main cable. For tough jobs he started before the generator with a 6 cylinder DAF diesel engine.
It was a good system if he needed much power then it was available. The battery charger kept the batteries good full.
I'm talking about 15/20 years ago. maybe he has now power flow.
Congrats on both the converter and the sponsor Keith!
Don't forget there's one more way to convert, static phase converters. Not the best way to go, but it is an option. Rotary's far better of course.
Yes, static converters are another option, but not a very good one.
Static would be ok for fractional HP up to a couple of HP, basically they're a non variable VFD... and a VFD in that case would be a better idea, methinks :)
Are lathes under a load at startup?
Not usually.
Ok, I need to get into this, how can a squirrel cage induction motor generate a voltage without the use of excitation? The rotor is simple bars that are shorted, one would need an armature instead of rotor to generate a voltage.
Before i know your Channel, i don't know the power Problems for small Shops in USA. Interesting to know, but makes me feel sorry for you Guys. :-( Here in Germany its normal to have 3 Phase at 380V(400V) in almost every Building. My Dad runs a small Shop with CNC lathe and miling. We have 100 Amps on every Phase for Main Circuit Breaker. Greetings from Germany and keep up the good work! PS: Sorry for bad english!
Most of Western Europe has been like this since the 1940's. You wouldn't believe how many across North America are jealous of you. One quirk was Canada's adoption of 3 Phase - 550 Volt electric motors, which are not used in the U.S.
We were whacky and arguably, still are.
Keith,
For those on other countries used to 3 phase power:
1. In some places here in the US you can't even get it in a residential neighborhood
2. If you CAN get it you are going to pay BIG TIME MONEY for it
Very true on both accounts. The electrical companies try their best to keep three phase out of residential areas and even if it is on the pole outside your house, they don't like to run it in except for commercial accounts. And even if you can get it, you usually have to pay commercial rates for your electricity which is higher than residential rates.
and that commercial rate is not trivial....I've heard it can be four or five figures per MONTH in some cases. I know you hate showing electrical work but I'd like to see everything that went into getting that converter up and powering your shop!
At the factory where i work we use vfd's just for speed control, we got some medium sized ones rated at something like 75 or a 100kw. They are extremely expensive pieces of kit.
The big ones are out of the price range for most of us home shop guys to just use for three phase conversion. That is the beauty of the phase converters!
Wow, sponsorship! Awesome!
That is one super nice piece of gear. :)
Indeed!
looking forward to the install videos
Thanks!
Keith, you looked like a kid on Christmas morning with that RPC. Of course, the only difference between being a kid and an adult is the toys get bigger.
My problem is that my kids and wife want stuff too. Here lately, my insulation fund has been growing very slowly because of things like "new school cloths" and "college tuition". Come on, don't they understand that I am trying to build a shop?!?
Rotary converters also act as line conditioners, so win-win, except for the slight hysteresis and friction losses.
It will serve me very well!
can i run mig welder 3phase 200 amps on this converter?
That would be a question for American Rotary. Give them a call - they know their business!
I am happy for you!
How can you tap 40 HP from a single phase? the supply Cable to the house and the fuse must be something extra.If you run on 110 V that should be around 150-200 A.
150 amps is needed to power it. It won't use that much except maybe for a brief moment if I am starting a big motor under a load. It is pushing the limits of the power I have in the shop, but I should be fine.
That shold be about 1 AWG? To be on the safe side and avoid over heating and other issues,
Nice piece of equipment. If I were closer to you I would volunteer my time to help get the new shop up and running. I like the videos from the museum fine, but the new shop should have much better lighting and more room for better camera angles. And the restored lathe is going to look sweet on camera making chips.
I would sure welcome your help! Right now, it is money slowing me down more than anything else. Trying to save up some cash to put my insulation in.....
Confusion a rotary phase converter is a rotating device while a phase converter is a static device. I was waiting to see the commissioning to see which one was installed, but to no avail. So which one is installed.
This is a Rotary Phase Converter - not static.
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Thanks!
hello Keith just wondering if American rotary sent you a nice bag of Wisconsin air along with your converter? was 105 with a heat index of 119 in my neighborhood Friday before airventure. thought about bagging some for you but just couldn't bring myself to go outside and do it. besides that would be kind of mean as you have plenty of your own. after much research and speaking with american rotary that is what I chose for my home shop. great people and support. Dave in wi.
Yeah, it came with some Wisconsin air, but this time of year, it just did not help....
It is always embarrassing to do a good video, finish it and then hear a slip of the tongue! The explanation of three phase machinery is very well done!