If you order this grinder from df64coffee.com/ please use the coupon code 'tomsgrinderlab' to score a discount. Please note that I receive a modest commision is you use that code and naturally, if you prefer to order from a local supplier, more power to you. For those who prefer to order from within Australia: www.CasaEspresso.com.au and also use the discount code ‘tomsgrinderlab’.
Nice review! I ended up buying an Olympia Moca SD last year thanks to your review. Thank you for all your hard work and sharing your results on various grinders! I’d love to see a more in depth video like this on the Moca SD to see if I can learn more about its capabilities. Cheers!
The Moca SD still remains one of my top three grinders for in-the-cup espresso, it's those Ditting burrs I guess. No plans to do a follow up review of the Moca SD sorry. I've got a bit of "review queue" with the DF83V, DF54, Niche Duo and Niche Zero plus the Gevi Grindmaster that arrived yesterday. Make sure you subscribe!
I got this grider on the way. It was between this and the ode gen 2 for filter. I ordered the ode gen 2 burrs to install in my df64 gen 2. I hope they work. I got this because while I have a moccamaster and a Japanese ceramic pourover setup, but plan on getting into expresso down the road. I wish I could have afforded a 078s sculptor. I kind of wish I saw your review before I ordered,
Hopefully those burrs fit it okay. I will be very interested to know what you think once you've got it all up and running, so please remember to pop back and let everyone know. Thanks for your post.
@tomsgrinderlab unfortunately, I had to return the grinder. It was horribly out of alignment out of the box. I put the ode filter burrs in and they worked. However, I just couldn't get them aligned. I was also dealing with terrible clogging. I asked the seller after return and they said the burrs were very misaligned and a peice of plastic (forget what they called it) was bent and causing clogging and retention. I was charged $22 return shipping and 15% restocking fee. So, I don't know if I give it a go again or try for something more expensive and get better QC out of the box. I wanted a mazzer philos, but their early bird preorder sale wasn't available in the US. I was looking at the 078, but recent problems of users are piling up in their Facebook group. I just can't believe I need to spend over $1000 to get a properly QCd coffee grinder!
Yes, is a fantastic grinder as I've had my Df64 Gen2 for some 4 months now its so much better than my older it replaced Actually liking the big bulky size, and out of habit I rdt my beans tho do find it holds a little retention so do use the billower function. Also came with dlc burrs which suits my medium + roasts for expresso..
How do i decide between dlc or stainless burrs? I have no idea the difference. my current go too is medium local roast espresso and milk drinks in my Gaggia using a zspresso hand grinder. I would like to try light roasts but don’t know if i will like those or not yet.
Bought an appartmento espresso then needed a grinder so went for DF64 v2 which took ages to arrive from US. Had to 0 as not setup, finding grinds around 15-19 but not sure if grind is right as only use for cappoccino but can't really taste the difference
What's your ratio of beans to espresso out and the pour time? E.g. 20 grams of beans, 40 grams of Espresso in 25 seconds. If in doubt please see my "Great Espresso" series part 3.
@@martinlewis1015 Martin, that's a start but there are three metrics I need to help diagnose: grams in, grams out, duration of pour in seconds. Also, you write that you can't taste the difference which begs the question, what were you using before with which you are comparing?
It's meant to be 18g in 36g out in 25-30s but I have new rocket appartmento supernova no1 of 99 made special addition it is a lever design 61 type set at 93deg 58mm portafilter
I think this could be a filter grinder with something like the ode gen 2 burrs. I would like to have 2 of these for filter and espresso. Mine arrives on Friday!
Could be. There is a good chance they will fit but just be aware that you'll struggle to grind if the the Gen 2 burrs are more than 0.1mm thinner than the DF burrs. There's one way to find out. If you remember, pop back and post your impressions.
@@tomsgrinderlab Thank you Tom. I nearly pressed the button on a DF64 gen2, but think I'll wait a little longer on the 83V review. Be interested to see what you make of it compared to your other DF experience, including the build quality.
Hi Jose, I'm guessing you mean "Gen 2" (there Is an DF64 V2 which I don't recommend). Grind coarser than normal for filter ou don't like it you can swap a different set of burrs into it.
@@tomsgrinderlab If I am referring to the generation 2 of the DF64, I have it and I love it, perfect, I will take the advice, thank you very much, I also have the Baratza Encore ESP.
SSP HU burr: yes if you are only drinking true light or medium/light and you want more acidity/brightness third wave style espresso in the cup then. For all other espresso styles the stock burrs are exceptional.
Hi, trank TH-cam for comparing different Grinders with the same kinds of burr sets i wonder if there is any difference between all 83mm burr Gründers Ranking on the same Burg Sets, like the ssp multipurpose or DLC versions and to See if the coating has impact on taste
Coating can have an impact of taste. 100%. I haven't done the blind taste tests with 83mm coated versus uncoated but I'd be confident, based on the 64mm differences between coated/unoated, that the same would apply.
DF54. It's perfect for milk only. Just know that the 54 doesn't do "subtle" 😀. It does big and bold. So punches through milk well. The DF64V is great for both milk and espresso but it's a lot more $ so you'd be paying for ability you are not going to use.
Fantastic deep-dive review Tom! I’m weighing this against the Varía VS3 Gen2 (which I know you rate highly) as my one and only grinder. Would you recommend one over the other (cost aside)? I value workflow highly over aesthetics, longevity/reliability, body over clarity, and drink both espresso and milk-based. Cheers!
Yes, cost aside I'd go with the DF64 Gen 2. The burrs are pretty amazing for espresso and quite good for milk-based (just grind a little finer for milk).
Hey Tom, thank you for the review! I have 15 plus years of experience making espresso at home. I own a baratza Sette 270. I am only interested in grinding for espresso (mostly medium light to medium dark). I experience some unpredictability with the Sette, sometimes things come loose and dial slips during grind. But overall it does the job, with very little retention from shot to shot. It is very noisy. I have no way of testing a new grinder before buying it. Im looking for a purchase that can last me 10 years. Budget up to 1000 EUR. Am i getting a noticeable step up from Sette to DF64 Gen 2 in terms of flavour with the diamond coated burrs you reccomend? Would the mazzer Philos or other more expensive grinder be an even better option or just estetic/build material upgrade?
Thanks for your question. I have five DF64 Gen 2s which I use with different burr sets for testing and comparing. I regard them as very durable and easily fixed in the unlikely event of the need. The burrs are a step up in terms of fullness of flavor and clarity and those two things don't often go together. If you buy from www.df64coffee.com use the link below and the coupon code tomsgrinderlab for a 10% discount (I get a 5% commision too but if that disturbs you then go direct and use the code and you'll still get 10% off): df64coffee.com/?sca_ref=7027740.dINj3nwI6yz8xDPa
Finishing off... I would not pay the extra for the Philos for your preferred style of espresso. Well, if you liked the look of it then sure, but the burrs in the DF64 Gen 2 are one of my favorites. (note, the stainless steel ones, uncoated, which come standard. as opposed to the DLC coated burrs in the DF64V which offer more body good for milk but less clarity which I prefer for straight espresso). (The Philos is my preferred option for very light espresso using the I200D burrs because it has a lot of runway for light and ultra light roasts.) Let me know if you have any more questions.
@@tomsgrinderlab wow, thank you for your quick and accurate reply. I just realized that df makes also a 54mm and saw your review. Reading the comments below I see you reccomend the 64 over the 54 for espresso. Apart from it being faster what other advantages do you see?
Have you had experience with a Niche Zero? If so, how would you compare this (or the DF64V) with the DLC burrs to a Niche Zero for lattes (milk-based espresso)?
Yes I've had a few Zeroes over the years and I've kept one. Its still one of my favorite grinders. I find the Zero gives a very traditional, smooth, well balanced in inoffensive espresso, very similar to an Italmill flat burr (64mm or 83mm) and the Niche Duo Mazzer 151b burrs. That said, I prefer the DF uncoated 64mm burr that comes stock with the DF64 Gen 2 because for me, it delivers enough body but offers a different more pronounced taste with different flavor notes. The DF64 Gen 2 burr is one of my favorites, even more than the DF64V DF DLC burr. Same geometry but the coating of the DF DLC has an edge with milk based drinks. Bottom line is that if you are only doing milk based espresso and you want those choc-notes really punching through the milk, then the DF DLC burr that comes stock in the DF64V is my pick. If you prefer the features of the DF64 Gen 2 over the DF64V then order the Gen 2 with the DF DLC burrs.
Great review Tom, thanks. I love my DF64 gen 2 however I do find that you get quite a bit of build up in the chute, around the ioniser, and it’s a bit of a pain to clean. Have you also noticed the same issue? Thanks, Louis
Great review, thanks. I just got my DF64 gen 2 with DLC burrs and so far I’m loving it for espresso. I also have the Varia VS3 gen 2. Would you recommend I use the Varia for filter coffee over the DF?
TBH I haven't tried the stock VS3 burrs for filter yet. The Hypernova Ultra S was great but I needed to grind coaser than normal. Try them both and if you do of love to know your thoughts.
Thanks for your comment. Not if you just like straight espresso. I think the stock burrs in the Gen 2 give a more interesting (flavor seperation) that the ones in the DF64V. But if you have milk based espresso only then yes, the V has the edge and also for filter. Hope that helps.
Nice review. But still can’t decide between DF54 vs DF64 gen 2. Which one is more recommended for home espresso? And what is your grinder suggestion for filter coffee on a budget? Many thanks
If you order this grinder from df64coffee.com/ please use the coupon code 'tomsgrinderlab' to score a discount. Please note that I receive a modest commision is you use that code and naturally, if you prefer to order from a local supplier, more power to you.
For those who prefer to order from within Australia: www.CasaEspresso.com.au and also use the discount code ‘tomsgrinderlab’.
Nice review! I ended up buying an Olympia Moca SD last year thanks to your review. Thank you for all your hard work and sharing your results on various grinders!
I’d love to see a more in depth video like this on the Moca SD to see if I can learn more about its capabilities. Cheers!
The Moca SD still remains one of my top three grinders for in-the-cup espresso, it's those Ditting burrs I guess. No plans to do a follow up review of the Moca SD sorry. I've got a bit of "review queue" with the DF83V, DF54, Niche Duo and Niche Zero plus the Gevi Grindmaster that arrived yesterday. Make sure you subscribe!
Thanks, Tom! I subscribed last year 😅.
Article explains everything i want to know, definitely will definitely consider this and the V version. Great review Tom!
Glad it was helpful!i
I am looking forward to your review of the DF54. I hope it does better for filter/immersion coffee!
Great review Tom - amazing to see your pro your videos have become
Thanks 👍
I got this grider on the way. It was between this and the ode gen 2 for filter. I ordered the ode gen 2 burrs to install in my df64 gen 2. I hope they work. I got this because while I have a moccamaster and a Japanese ceramic pourover setup, but plan on getting into expresso down the road. I wish I could have afforded a 078s sculptor. I kind of wish I saw your review before I ordered,
Hopefully those burrs fit it okay. I will be very interested to know what you think once you've got it all up and running, so please remember to pop back and let everyone know. Thanks for your post.
@tomsgrinderlab unfortunately, I had to return the grinder. It was horribly out of alignment out of the box. I put the ode filter burrs in and they worked. However, I just couldn't get them aligned. I was also dealing with terrible clogging. I asked the seller after return and they said the burrs were very misaligned and a peice of plastic (forget what they called it) was bent and causing clogging and retention. I was charged $22 return shipping and 15% restocking fee. So, I don't know if I give it a go again or try for something more expensive and get better QC out of the box. I wanted a mazzer philos, but their early bird preorder sale wasn't available in the US. I was looking at the 078, but recent problems of users are piling up in their Facebook group. I just can't believe I need to spend over $1000 to get a properly QCd coffee grinder!
Yes, is a fantastic grinder as I've had my Df64 Gen2 for some 4 months now its so much better than my older it replaced Actually liking the big bulky size, and out of habit I rdt my beans tho do find it holds a little retention so do use the billower function. Also came with dlc burrs which suits my medium + roasts for expresso..
I've grown to really like the Gen 2. I have the DF64V as well but the Gen 2 burrs are so versatile that I keep going back to it for my espresso shots.
How do i decide between dlc or stainless burrs? I have no idea the difference. my current go too is medium local roast espresso and milk drinks in my Gaggia using a zspresso hand grinder. I would like to try light roasts but don’t know if i will like those or not yet.
Bought an appartmento espresso then needed a grinder so went for DF64 v2 which took ages to arrive from US. Had to 0 as not setup, finding grinds around 15-19 but not sure if grind is right as only use for cappoccino but can't really taste the difference
What's your ratio of beans to espresso out and the pour time? E.g. 20 grams of beans, 40 grams of Espresso in 25 seconds. If in doubt please see my "Great Espresso" series part 3.
Using 18g
@@martinlewis1015 Martin, that's a start but there are three metrics I need to help diagnose: grams in, grams out, duration of pour in seconds.
Also, you write that you can't taste the difference which begs the question, what were you using before with which you are comparing?
It's meant to be 18g in 36g out in 25-30s but I have new rocket appartmento supernova no1 of 99 made special addition it is a lever design 61 type set at 93deg 58mm portafilter
Any tips on the declumper? I do mainly dark roasts and if i dont use the bellows i can plan on cleaning it out.
@robinlawson69 not really, it works fine for me. If you are finding grounds retained then probably go back to using the bellows.
I think this could be a filter grinder with something like the ode gen 2 burrs. I would like to have 2 of these for filter and espresso. Mine arrives on Friday!
Could be. There is a good chance they will fit but just be aware that you'll struggle to grind if the the Gen 2 burrs are more than 0.1mm thinner than the DF burrs. There's one way to find out. If you remember, pop back and post your impressions.
@@tomsgrinderlab will do! I’m sure there is a brew burr that will fit weather that’s ode, ssp, Mazzer, etc. I will keep you posted!
Enjoyable review. When will you be doing your DF83V review? Thanks.
Hi Chris, it's written and getting proofed next week, with the video part being produced on the 20th of May so look out for it around the 21st.
@@tomsgrinderlab Thank you Tom. I nearly pressed the button on a DF64 gen2, but think I'll wait a little longer on the 83V review. Be interested to see what you make of it compared to your other DF experience, including the build quality.
How to make my df64 v2 good for filtering? Well, I already have it and I love it, I only make Italian mocha and French press but I want to buy a v60.
Hi Jose, I'm guessing you mean "Gen 2" (there Is an DF64 V2 which I don't recommend). Grind coarser than normal for filter ou don't like it you can swap a different set of burrs into it.
@@tomsgrinderlab If I am referring to the generation 2 of the DF64, I have it and I love it, perfect, I will take the advice, thank you very much, I also have the Baratza Encore ESP.
Is it a good upgrate with SSP bure for expresso?
SSP HU burr: yes if you are only drinking true light or medium/light and you want more acidity/brightness third wave style espresso in the cup then. For all other espresso styles the stock burrs are exceptional.
👍👍
Hi, trank TH-cam for comparing different Grinders with the same kinds of burr sets i wonder if there is any difference between all 83mm burr Gründers Ranking on the same Burg Sets, like the ssp multipurpose or DLC versions and to See if the coating has impact on taste
Coating can have an impact of taste. 100%. I haven't done the blind taste tests with 83mm coated versus uncoated but I'd be confident, based on the 64mm differences between coated/unoated, that the same would apply.
Am chasing a new grinder. I only drink milk drinks cappuccino latte flat white medium roast. Which would be best for me, the 64 gen2 or the 54?
DF54. It's perfect for milk only. Just know that the 54 doesn't do "subtle" 😀. It does big and bold. So punches through milk well.
The DF64V is great for both milk and espresso but it's a lot more $ so you'd be paying for ability you are not going to use.
Fantastic deep-dive review Tom! I’m weighing this against the Varía VS3 Gen2 (which I know you rate highly) as my one and only grinder. Would you recommend one over the other (cost aside)? I value workflow highly over aesthetics, longevity/reliability, body over clarity, and drink both espresso and milk-based. Cheers!
Yes, cost aside I'd go with the DF64 Gen 2. The burrs are pretty amazing for espresso and quite good for milk-based (just grind a little finer for milk).
Hey Tom, thank you for the review! I have 15 plus years of experience making espresso at home. I own a baratza Sette 270. I am only interested in grinding for espresso (mostly medium light to medium dark). I experience some unpredictability with the Sette, sometimes things come loose and dial slips during grind. But overall it does the job, with very little retention from shot to shot. It is very noisy. I have no way of testing a new grinder before buying it. Im looking for a purchase that can last me 10 years. Budget up to 1000 EUR. Am i getting a noticeable step up from Sette to DF64 Gen 2 in terms of flavour with the diamond coated burrs you reccomend? Would the mazzer Philos or other more expensive grinder be an even better option or just estetic/build material upgrade?
Thanks for your question. I have five DF64 Gen 2s which I use with different burr sets for testing and comparing. I regard them as very durable and easily fixed in the unlikely event of the need. The burrs are a step up in terms of fullness of flavor and clarity and those two things don't often go together. If you buy from www.df64coffee.com use the link below and the coupon code tomsgrinderlab for a 10% discount (I get a 5% commision too but if that disturbs you then go direct and use the code and you'll still get 10% off): df64coffee.com/?sca_ref=7027740.dINj3nwI6yz8xDPa
Finishing off... I would not pay the extra for the Philos for your preferred style of espresso. Well, if you liked the look of it then sure, but the burrs in the DF64 Gen 2 are one of my favorites. (note, the stainless steel ones, uncoated, which come standard. as opposed to the DLC coated burrs in the DF64V which offer more body good for milk but less clarity which I prefer for straight espresso).
(The Philos is my preferred option for very light espresso using the I200D burrs because it has a lot of runway for light and ultra light roasts.)
Let me know if you have any more questions.
@@tomsgrinderlab wow, thank you for your quick and accurate reply. I just realized that df makes also a 54mm and saw your review. Reading the comments below I see you reccomend the 64 over the 54 for espresso. Apart from it being faster what other advantages do you see?
Have you had experience with a Niche Zero? If so, how would you compare this (or the DF64V) with the DLC burrs to a Niche Zero for lattes (milk-based espresso)?
Yes I've had a few Zeroes over the years and I've kept one. Its still one of my favorite grinders.
I find the Zero gives a very traditional, smooth, well balanced in inoffensive espresso, very similar to an Italmill flat burr (64mm or 83mm) and the Niche Duo Mazzer 151b burrs.
That said, I prefer the DF uncoated 64mm burr that comes stock with the DF64 Gen 2 because for me, it delivers enough body but offers a different more pronounced taste with different flavor notes. The DF64 Gen 2 burr is one of my favorites, even more than the DF64V DF DLC burr. Same geometry but the coating of the DF DLC has an edge with milk based drinks.
Bottom line is that if you are only doing milk based espresso and you want those choc-notes really punching through the milk, then the DF DLC burr that comes stock in the DF64V is my pick.
If you prefer the features of the DF64 Gen 2 over the DF64V then order the Gen 2 with the DF DLC burrs.
Great review Tom, thanks. I love my DF64 gen 2 however I do find that you get quite a bit of build up in the chute, around the ioniser, and it’s a bit of a pain to clean. Have you also noticed the same issue? Thanks, Louis
Great review, thanks. I just got my DF64 gen 2 with DLC burrs and so far I’m loving it for espresso. I also have the Varia VS3 gen 2. Would you recommend I use the Varia for filter coffee over the DF?
TBH I haven't tried the stock VS3 burrs for filter yet. The Hypernova Ultra S was great but I needed to grind coaser than normal. Try them both and if you do of love to know your thoughts.
one of the most extensive reviews I have seen online, nice work! :) Also do you think its worth it to upgrade to the DF64V?
Thanks for your comment.
Not if you just like straight espresso. I think the stock burrs in the Gen 2 give a more interesting (flavor seperation) that the ones in the DF64V.
But if you have milk based espresso only then yes, the V has the edge and also for filter.
Hope that helps.
Nice review. But still can’t decide between DF54 vs DF64 gen 2. Which one is more recommended for home espresso?
And what is your grinder suggestion for filter coffee on a budget?
Many thanks
They are both very good for espresso. If you have the budget I'd suggest the DF64 Gen 2.
For filter 1zPresso K-Ultra is great.