ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Putting my mill back together and I am at the point of trying to fix my table scale on my Accu-Rite Millvision DRO. It is an old AR-5 glass scale possibly with an absolute zero ii read head. Lucky for me the riggers cut the wires to the read head rather than removing it from the scale in order to take the table off. Now I get to try to patch them back together and hope it still works. I am interested in parts for this antique setup as I work towards getting the mill operational. If you have anything or know of sources let me know.
manual found here : www.acu-rite.co... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Both you and Mike Wiggins have this awe-shucks, good-ol-boy, relaxed and calm demeanor that really belies the knowledge, intelligence and wisdom you both have. I really enjoy watching you both. You remind me of my grandfather...not in age, but in mannerisms, knowledge and determination. As a side note, you can always judge a man by the way he treats animals...or in your case, the way you let Baily treat you :D
Totally Agree
You, my friend, are the embodiment of what made this country great! Brains, drive, innovation, and raw work ethic.
Enjoyed Brian, looks like you have lots of help already.
ATB, Robin
My Mill has that same DRO, not sure if the scale is the same. I will take a look at it and see
Hi Brian. I think hardkrash has provided the answer if you look for his post. The read head is held against the scale with the ball ended spring and the plastic piece separating the boards provides the bearing surface. I'd say it's all there and just needs a little bit of fettling to get it sorted. Good Luck from the UK.
Brian, you are a mechanical engineer dabbling in electronics, while I am a electrical engineer dabbling in mechanics - could be an unstoppable team! As far as the wiring goes, I'd simply solder and shrink wrap (using the good stuff with the heat glue inside to keep coolant out, just in case it should come in contact with it). As far as the re-assembly of the reader head, I'd carefully take the other reader apart and use it as a guide on how to rebuild the unknown one. If they are too different in design, I'd look for a newer glass scale reader with the same tolerances, and the install manual for it. In the manual for the current one you have, lists the function of each wire. By using that, and the manual for a newer reader you should be able to wire it to the existing cord on your machine. If I was closer (I live in NC), I could duplicate the card for your other 2 axsies. I would need access to a card to draw the layout of the circuit, then layout and have a new PCB manufactured - cost of doing that is really not that bad, as China makes boards for dirt cheap these days. I looked for some time to find your email, but could not find it. If you'd like to discuss this further please reach out to me. Good luck! (I'm also a Brian B - how cool is that?)
Good old McMaster-Carr is a source for the adhesive lined heatshrink tubing.
( www.mcmaster.com/#heat-shrink-tubing/=1cgil2a )
Don't know if someone mentionned it before, but the electronic board isn't fixed with screws or anything else than slipped on the glass scale and held with a little pressure from the spring blade hith that balled tip.
I've seen some other comments where guys sent you some explaning about calibrating the pulses with a scope. If this scale isn't reparable, check with Accu-Rite if newer scales are compatible with older systems, I know Heidenhain like my old antique unit is, it may require a plug change, though.
Keep us posted of the progress.
Alot of times on my service calls older equipment has been modified, manuals are non existant. Sometimes you'll find searchable numbers on the back side of the the unit if you unbolt it. Or another part on the machine may match up or have similar terminations or help you trace wires. Some times if you call a company dealing in similar parts they may also have a crossover chart. At least this has helped on drilling rigs and conveyor control system
hardcrash has the right of it. What you have is an Acu-Rite AR5 linear encode. The head goes around the glass scale and is pressed against it with the spring/ball and socket. We used similar linear scales on some of the manual lathes when I worked at Parmac in the late '70's/early 80's and that was how they were put together.
Your right on👍. I’ve seen the pride of doing a good go right out the window as time has progressed.
Once again you provide great content. Great Job. God Bless.
Hi Brian
I second the recommendation from viewer Jeurg.............I saw a thread on Practical Machinist indicating Ray at RLA Machine is very knowledgable about older Accu-Rite equipment.
The RLA website also contains an inventory of old equipment.
regards vic
LOL You're a man after my own heart. Rebuild the barn, install crane, pour 40 yds concrete, Install 40,000 lb machine alone...... THEN you need help! LOL ur funny.
hes an engineer not an electronics guy!
Its not a weakness to know and accept your own limits. :) In fact its even key for a good professional attitude :)
Old School, you are a dumb shit for laughing at a guy that needs help, why I bet you laugh at old people when they trip and fall. You don't deserve to be a subscriber of this channel. And F.U. to the other 38 of you that gave this turd a thumbs up.
the wire and ball would be to decouple the reader from the external mount unit. on my internal scales, the reader was mounted on a set of ball bearings and the pressure from the ball ensured that it was in the correct locations against the scales.
Hey Brian, I have a similar Accu-rite DRO set up on my Induma Horizontal Mill that I recently installed, I can take one of the reader heads off tomorrow on one of my extra scales and send some pictures your way if you'd like. My set-up is a little older i think but the reader heads look similar, hope this helps!
-Tom Kouttron
Name that rigging company so that anyone in the future WON"T use them! Hope you get it sorted. Thanks for the video and good luck.
All our Bridgeports used to have Millvision DRO's like that. We've long since changed them to Newall, but I'll look around in storage to see if we still have any of it.
I looked. Same control, but different scales. Sorry.
Don't have a control with the z and w axis card do ya?
I don't think so, but I'll look. We've got a G&L like yours (taller Y, but shorter X & Z) but it came with a Sony DRO.
There's no additional cards, but I assume the cards are all the same, as it's just labeled A axis & B axis. I would assume DIP switches or the software assigns inputs, so couldn't you just add this card?
I am unsure I will ask around. is there a part number on the card? The manual says it takes a 387802-6000 to perform the upgrade.
As a rigger. Im sorry that happened. There are lots of fly by night riggers that do nothing but fallow auctions. And dont care how they get the job done. I always ask the owner if he wants to send someone out to oversee or prep the machine for removal. But 99% of the time they say no.
At least they didn't try to rip the table feed screw out of the machine when they thought it was stuck after removing the taper pin and it wouldn't come out. Turns out it is threaded in!
If the other scale is of the same family you can check it , however , the glass scale runs between the two small electronic boards. The small spring wire is needed to push the reading head on one side. Tipically some miniature bearings are mounted on that casting and acts as wheels. Bearings looks to be missing. If the scales are old and dirt, you should carefully clean the them with some alchool avoiding to scratch the glass.
you will get the help you have lots people out here that Esperance
C U got help. good. been watching this sequence for 4 yrs as have others. minor issue for your tenacity.
The read head and cable are made separately especially since you might need to replace the read head at some point and it has soldered wires apparently. The metal box is just a junction box. Part 4 in the diagram. Open the splices carefully to see if they did color match the wires.
Have you consider looking at the vertical installation to see how it was assembled and maybe it would help you fix it.
Looking at the exploded diagram on page 10 of the PDF manual, it seems as though the 2 screw/bolt holes you are asking about seem to be for "Temporary Alignment Brackets" which are listed as number 5 on the top right diagram.
Hi Brian, why not just take apart the column axis scale and take some pictures of the inside of that? Since they are both likely to be the same vintage, the reader head should be the same.
My idea also.
Hi Brian; bum luck w/ the Rigger’s but not surprising. I recently worked through issues w/ similar style Anilam DRO, but it was older technology. The wire spring / tab / Ball-End thing on it was to keep the reader head in it springloaded on the non-etched side of the glass. The ‘weak link’ was the plastic component that the ball mounted in. +1 on the suggestions to evaluate the other scale for how it goes together.
Good stuff I trust in our mob to solve this.
_Dan_
I do not know anything about this machine but you're not far from Cincinnati, the home of AMI, and they are the big league for DROs, Acurite glass scales and stuff. You've probably already been down all these roads but there is Keith Ruckers Vintage.org site too. Good luck Brian.
My accu-rite is a 1986, it is smaller than yours but looks about the same. I believe you are missing the black bakelite cover that holes the unit and also seals it. they are really easy to break when they get old, they more or less turn to dust if you drop them. chances are thats what happened if they did that to the rest of the machine.
Sorry that happened to you... Good luck with trying to get it fixed!
I too think they ripped the cable apart when they removed the table. You better check the glass scale if it's cracked.
The reader itself is a relative simple thing. A few Infrared diodes and two light sensors with op-amps. Correctly powered it's really robust.
But the correct guidance of the reading-head is important. And the bracket looks really torn apart. Ideally a compatible replacement would be the best. Otherwise you have to look at a similar one and reconstruct yours after that.
The owner probably needed it gone and the riggers could have cared less if the machine would ever be used again. They may been paid by the job so I can understand the shortcuts but not condone them. I have complete confidence that you will win this battle also as you and the Keiths always win. Good luck to you and Bailey. Planting done yet?
I've got a very personal connection to "out-dated",,, I feel it in my bones... LOL ;o) Best of luck on this Brian.....
O,,,
Hi Brian, I've just had to repair a new Chinese type which is remarkably similar to what you have there. Smaller components but the mounting looks the same. It just floats, ie nothing but the wires anchor it, just that spring with the ball on the end to keep it against the glass scale .... hope that's of some help to you :)
note f in the middle of page 9 says there to be a socket on pcb 14 for the ball of part 10. which would be the only connection between the read head and its casting i can see. there is a slot to the right side of the read head between the white carriage body (9) and pcb (14). the way the carriage looks it should be riding on the ball of the spring to be pressed against the edge and the underside of the glass.
(regarding figure 15 of manual in video description)
I might Finney from Beloit Kansas my brother and I found that you could draw five eighths thin wall stainless tubing through a die and buy stock half inch balls and make your own Newell scale any length you wanted and buy the the economical kit for Bridgeport and exchange the scales works really well Newell even has the correction for the scale
What did you do about supports on a long run? My lathe has trip away roller type deals that let the reader pass but still support the scale for long travel lengths.
Bat Rastards! Got a "guy", he's old too, I'll ask about the readouts. Looks like you got the square up there... is it?? Hope help arrives soon.
Feed head on other scale the same? Might want to take a look at it.
Acu-Rite AR5 installation instructions is what i sent you! THANKS Dale Mansker in a post below-he said thats what you have. Good work Brian. Found some good stuff www.acu-rite.com/pdf/manuals/obsolete/ACURITEIImanual.pdf the other guys beat me to it- but like you said it might help someone else in the future.
How long is your vertical scale? I just removed a analam mini wizard. from a bridgeport mill that used that style scales. I plan to adapt scales removed from another mill. The X axis was dead (Smoked Electronics) and Y had a dead spot in the middle of its travel.I only need to salvage the bendix connectors.I can slide both reader heads in the housing of your choice and send them your way.
The housing on the vertical measures 65"
The X axis is 41 inches and Y is 17 inches long. The reader head snaps on the end of the ball. On the center of the circuit board, the round plastic boss with the metal L shaped bracket.I have no use for the reader heads, you are welcome to them.
Can't help with the scales. Mine is a different brand-Anilam. You are spot on about riggers. I have had so many bad experiences that it borders on being ridiculous. For every decent rigger that actually cares, there's about 100 total, utter jackasses that don't give a crap about anything other than getting done quickly . I've seen too many nice, vintage iron machines get dumped by disgraceful mishandling. Hope you can find the answers to your scale problems.
Brian, I bet Accu-Rite would help you out just for the positive press...
I think the reason you do not have Z scale is because of the length of the bed it would have cost more than they wanted to spend. I do not know how they would do the depth on the spindel.
I used to install machinery for a large company and we had the job of installing some used equipment that was taken out in California and shipped to us to install. Hell they took a cutting torch and cut the conduit with the wires in the conduit. Like you said Brian they do not give a shit.
I just looked on eBay and there are items under "Millvision" in Business and Industrial. At the top of the list is: "ACU-RITE MILLVISION 387822-4000 W-VISION-AXIS LINEAR SLIDE TABLE CONTROLLER."
Say hi to Bailey don’t forget the treats and a pet! Hope ya get it sorted out Brian... Some Riggers???
Call AccuRite and have the engineering staff help you if that unit is old. I gave little experience with DRO's they were comeing in as I was going out. The web says they are still in business
Probably a dumb question but are the 2 readers different designs? Never seen 2 different kinds readers on same machine before.
I have 2 different style of scales on my Monarch mainly because of the space allowed and the huge difference in scale sizes.
Have thought about looking at the working one to see A anything missing bust and wire placement with care if got one off just a thought.
If the Y and X are the same have you opened the one that works and see what is inside and if there is anything missing
i don't know just suggesting something to try but it is looking good
I would be pissed as well....They probably ripped it apart when they separated the table.
Ouch, rigger butchers is being nice and I'd be more than a little pissed as well. Can't really help other than make a few suggestions since my electronics skills are about - zero. Maybe try on the Practical Machinist forums if you already haven't? There's some real knowledgeable guys there and for sure someone there will know the exact answers and I'd be willing to bet one or more have the exact reader head to replace that one sitting on a shelf for very low bucks or free. It's possible the current Accu-rite rubber seals are still the same today they use on there scales right now? If not, then the seal should just slip into there extruded scale covers. Might cost you the price of new covers to use the current seals? Likely your glass scales aren't much different dimensionally than what they use now so it just might work?
i would put the wires back together. the screws if look in Manuel said just to hold in position when mounted then you remove it?. doesnt look like those screws are for anything. what hold the sensor in place is the wire with the ball
Try going on eBay and look for the shortest scale and change out the reader.
hi Bryan have a look in the y axis head sensor its working should be the same sensor as the x axis and the wiring should be the same
in the manual you posted. the read head floats on the pin.. the screw holes are for the installation alignment cover.. that prevents the head from getting moved farther than expected..
hopefully there is enough wire to reconnect.. you may ask to see if the manufacturer still has the installation cover described on page.. 3 paragraph 3.. page 10 describes it really well in images..
part number 10 is the cantilever spring that supports the read head after the temporary alignment brackets number 5 were removed.. the seals..
Number 3 would need to be have a die created and some of the strip recreated.. you have an optical comparator right.. can you find an end that is not damaged.. cut a thin slice and make an accurate trace off it.. contact one of the molded rubber trim reproducers.. like Steele rubber and ask them what shape their extruder dies are. so you could possibly create an extruder die set saving many many dollars. could you extrude it .. sure.. create a tight fitting piston and bore. that you can clamp to a porta power.. heating the uncured rubber in the new cylinder then when its hot enough.. clamp the ram on it and start pumping as you pull the rubber strip out somehow.. it will have to go thru a cooling water bath. but who knows.. they might have a die for it already. could you do something like extruded plastic.. extruded teflon..
i think you are closer than you think to having it working as long as you can get the alignment back.. see if the manufacturer has a single temporary alignment bracket. or perhaps somebody will have one.. it might not fit or be accurate. because of the bent arm on the support..
i wish i was there to help.. but i am on the west coast..
EDIT DON"T move the vertical head alignment. .. measure from the seats of the missing temporary to the glass scale .. heck.. that will give you an idea of just where to put the head mounting bracket back in..
if the round beads are 3/16" on the seals.. th-cam.com/video/OQal335dAI0/w-d-xo.html
I'm willing to bet there was no cutting involved
Take the big bolts out and lift
Keep lifing till that sticky thing pops
Easy as
You prob don't want to but I bought a whole new dro setup from my local machery supplier
Pretty sure it's Chinese but it's working well so far
They where the only ones with a 3m (10ft) big enough for my lathe
Cost be above a grand Aussie
Figure 5, label 10 of www.acu-rite.com/pdf/manuals/obsolete/ACURITEIImanual.pdf shows a ball and socket configuration of driving the A-R/5 transducer.
Not good to have the folks take it apart with wire cutters. I am sure you will overcome this problem also.
Do you work for deere?
Sorry sir smart one.... on your readout I R not ....but maybe a drop back and punt ... ask for help to buy a new full axis DRO or some one has one that you can adapt ???
I've just fooled with hydraulic scfales in loaders so I'm out of it. 20's and snowing and blowing here too. Give Baily a treat and he'll go get the instruction book he hid for just such an emergency!
One of the reasons you hire professional riggers is that they're insured (or they better be) for damages. Cutting cables without understanding what those cables do is damage inflicted by them. It was their decision. I'd find out who insures them and file a claim for a replacement unit.
Hey Brian, from the acurite site under discontinued scales, last updated in1989, this PDF, page 10 fig.15, . has a detail looks exactly like a complete detail of the "Butchered Remains" in your video. a page before that may be the standard pin out for the connector-(wire colors) it does read- standard connector. the artwork has good detail. any way hope you already solved it. -Keith www.acu-rite.com/pdf/manuals/obsolete/AR5manual.pdf
Like the used engine I recently bought, you could tell they were careless about removing it from the old vehicle and it would of been fine if they spent the extra 5 minutes to disconnect it the right way, I paid enough for it but I guess it wasn’t worth an extra 5 minuets of their time
Had you been there.Riggers are the muscle most likely they were gettin paid to move machine to the scrap heap other wise buyer would want yo pay attention to anything else , not everyone else is as accurate nor getting paid for it. You know the perils of moving heavy machinery around on top of a couple of wire being cut , you'll figure it out.
Brian Page 11 in this manual www.acu-rite.com/pdf/manuals/obsolete/AR5manual.pdf shows how the parts are mounted. It is mounted just on that ball only the wires should color match
I was looking at www.acu-rite.com/pdf/manuals/obsolete/ENC150OLDmanual.pdf page 18 where it shows the pin layout and wire connection diagram. The colors look like they might be the same as your disassembled wiring.
Brian hope you get some help, if its got you stumped no use me chiming in.
Hey man, I have the breakdown diagram of the acu-rite 5 series heads if you still need it I can email it to you or give you a link to my google drive. I scanned it to a pdf.
Yes, I would love to have it. It is working ok for now but who knows what the future holds! email it ti bcbloc02 at yahoo
@@bcbloc02 should be in your email buddy.
Wish I could help but I know nothing about boring mills
I have a millvision, I Wii check out my reader in the morning.
I hope someone can help.
Brian, you feeling brave? Both of the scales should be the same. So carefully take apart the other one and you should be able to tell how the one on the bed goes together.
I am always scared to mess with ancient electronics when they are working. They are never as robust and reliable as the mechanical stuff. I may have to be I bet one of the 10000 awesome viewers that watch this stuff will know. :-)
Try the guys at ZS Instruments-
www.zsinstruments.com/
They can do retrofits and repairs and may be able to offer some advice.I had them supply me a new long scale for a mill where they furnished a new import scale with an adapter that alowed it to work with an Accurite II display.Cost me about 1/3 of what Accurite wanted.
Be careful if there are optical sensors some dont like direct sun light
I'm sure you will get some help. I don't even have enough knowledge here to be dangerous. Man does that crap piss me off.
Figure 15 on page 10 of www.acu-rite.com/pdf/manuals/obsolete/AR5manual.pdf shows that the spring with the ball and socket is the only thing holding the head to the scale.
I priced new rubber dirt seals for my Anilam DRO on my Bridgeport.... Cheaper to buy a new DRO!
I suspect the professional riggers either tore the wires apart with their hands or gnawed them off with their teeth. A wire cutter is a tool, and therefore I highly doubt that they had such an implement at hand during dissassembly.
I'd look at the other one and then reverse diagnose and repair.
I feel sure you have looked at the one you have there that is working and compared as a model to repair the butchered one,,, other than that i am no help at all. good luck and thanks for the video..
Call the rigging/machine moving company. I'm sure they're insured. See what they'll do about it,
Consider www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html and the mixed glass scale launchpad, it's not the same as finding a card for the DRO but it might be more affordable.
Might be hard to get that syncd up with my flip phone. lol
LOL, Well I was thinking of a dedicated inexpensive tablet, Nothing fancy like a cellular modem.
use the working one as a pattern. both should be the same.
Compare it to the other one, like hasbeen said short ebay version and swap
Would be money well spent to just buy a whole new DRO. I didn't say it would be cheap, but it would be money well spent.
My 2c worth.....
Brian, contact Ray at RLA Machine for replacement rubber seals for the scales. www.rlamachine.net/page/home
Magnetic scales will prolly be cheaper for the long bed, and cost competitive for the cross bed you are fussing with now.
The magnetic tape is cheap, the read heads are very expensive, so the longer the scale the more competitive it gets.
if it is 9pin TTL just swap it out with a new chinese one. Show us a clip of the back of the DRO.
--just looked up the manual for your DRO it uses RS232 communications, that is the same as the chinese scales. you'll have to change the db connector to a round one, but i think it should work. (I think)
I believe it is called a Bendix 6 pin round connector.
someone else suggested buying a cheap small scale, see if you can get it to works then try swapping out the reader head. i think the chinese ones read to 10micron.
From one of the links below I found this th-cam.com/video/xV5VX6dkJvw/w-d-xo.html which is a good explaination of the tear down of a read head that looks very similar to yours - good luck.
Take the other one apart. Call accurite for rubbers
That's a real shame.
Vintagemachinery.org may have some of thr info you need
Go to DROPRO.COM and have a look around their site. They have some info and pictures on glass scales.If nothing else you can see what a replacement will cost you.
They don't list any scales as long as mine.
you dont expect respectful behaviour for £500 a hour do you?! Same even my side of the pond, there is a difference between machine movers and riggers. There is a firm who I cant remember at present who does a cable kit to retrofit new scales onto old reader units
Hopefully not a duplicate lead, this video from a company that repairs dro's features your instrument: tinyurl.com/ydb5obr8
Their website: www.industrialrepairstore.com/
I really don't know,what if u took Y axis apart CAREFULLY,see how its wired,u only really need a W axis,your spindle should have an auto stop,big dial on outside of spindle had inch marks if hand dial has .100 per revolution be 10 marks between inches,if it has .125 per revolution be 8 marks,should be a little bolt like thing,with right angle on it to loosen and tighten,u can operate the old school way before read outs,go by dial,touch part,then set zero on dial,wanna go three inchs dp,lay scale on way mark 3 inches with red pencil or a sharpie,u bore with W axis any how,just use dial,old school way,X and Y u set to closest inch wont be .000 .000 center line,u add and subtract,like if Y was 12.000 inches figure bolt circle add and subtract like a 45 degree b.c, half the bc,5.000 bc half is 2.500 for a 45 degree b.c multiply 2.500 x .70711,tells u up and down and left an right,LOL a lot of adding and subtracting,OLD SCHOOL WAY,ran a boring mill that had a light in it would read scale,drop piece on table to hard knock the light out,what a pain in the butt that was,im just trying to help u,i don't know everything,but I operated a HBM quite a few years,1988,wow that's old read out,SONY makes good read outs,not know how much they cost,reliable also
Cut the WIRES!!? Please post the name of the outfit so I won't make the mistake of hiring them.
What complete jerks.
Eric
18
I'm sorry, I've no knowledge how to correct your problem, good luck!
....13
Must have been union workers they are the only workers with out and pride they all think they are owed respect and pay they don't want to earn it