THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- MAG146 - Case #0030109 - Marcus MacKenzie
Statement regarding a series of unexplored entryways.
The Magnus Archives hears the story of the son of a previous statement giver, who feels their father has manipulatively co-opted their childhood hallucinations about strange doors appearing.
Content Notes: Adverse mental health discussion
Starring: The Archivist - Jonathan Sims; Helen Richardson - Imogen Harris; Alice “Daisy” Tonner - Fay Roberts, Melanie King - Lydia Nicholas; Basira Hussain - Frank Voss
Writer: Jonathan Sims
Director: Alexander J Newall
Producer: Lowri Ann Davies
Editors: Alexander J Newall, Elizabeth Moffatt, Brock Winstead
MERCH:
Crowdmade: crowdmade.com/...
Teepublic: www.teepublic....
Redbubble: www.redbubble....
Basira: I can excuse police brutality, but giving people nightmares is where I draw the line!
"...you can excuse police brutality?"
@@OneMartinAmongMany They were paraphrasing Basira's attitude.
@@doozerpindan Yes and they were also quoting a meme. Which is followed up by "you can forgive (x)?"
Classic police officer to be honest though
@@lathyrusloonreal
I love how almost every comment is a full essay on how everyone needs to lay off Jon
I think the only character that isn't a hypocrite on some level is the Admiral
Truly🤷🏻♀️
It's his most admirable quality
@@jeremymcadams7743 You-
@@L_Aster Me
and Sasha but sadly she's not here to put sense on people anymore 😔
I love how the whole comment section is just:”JON GET BEHIND US LOVE”
Excuse me but the idea of michael playing tug of war with a skipping rope with an actual child is hilarious
I agree, it made me laugh
And absolutely something he'd have done 😂
Imagining him trying to manipulate a little skipping rope with his massive, fucked up hands.
Helen said it was before they were Michael tho
The mental image is so funny
oh wow you treated the known avatar of the eye like shit for months, didn't take any care of him after his transformative coma, left him alone, and isolated him, and now he's eating peoples' memories??????????????????????? i'm ShoCkEd
If this keeps up Jon's going to get complimentary Lonely avatarship. They're so unfair; dieting is hard.
"dieting is hard" i-
Peter shows up to hand Jon a business card that just says "Congratulations! You don't have any friends :)."
So real and true. He’s trying so hard to eat right and I’m going to assume that live statements feel much better to consume than old written ones
@@table2.0I have 5-6 year old frozen steak in my freezer. Perfectly edible, but quite frankly kinda gross flavor-wise. I think it's the same sort of thing. He's trying to live off old freezer steak.
@@willowkleman9979 He puts both Jon and Martin in the same room together and doesn't let either of them talk to each other just to make them feel more alone.
Daisy kills people: perfectly fine
Jon gives a couple of people nightmares: horrific and unforgivable.
Sasha #1 would have never behaved like this 🙄
are you talking about how the assistants all hate jon? (except daisy)
periodt 💅 Sasha is literally the best character in this podcast, and she literally died to a frickin’ shapeshifter 🙄🙄🙄
Well either you die young or live long enough to watch yourself become the villain.
I feel like it was never more true then in this podcast.
@@achnav3762 I don't consider Jon a villain, if that's what you mean, but to each their own interpretation.
@@starberrycupcake from our point of vue, with all the knowledge we have, of course he is not a villain. He's only a victim and we know it. They all are.
But from to pov of anyone else in the world, well, he would be someone you give a statement about.
And I was more specifically referring to Sasha dying to soon to have the time the become a "villain" herself, making the best person.
imagine the spiral fighting with a kid for a rope and only winning bc the kid let go in said rope
Imagine the incarnation of the spiral falling on it's arse back in the darkness because the tension suddenly went...
I just imagine Micheal with his crazy long fingers struggling to hold onto a thin little rope
"𝕀 𝕨𝕒𝕤𝕟'𝕥 𝕖𝕧𝕖𝕟 𝕄𝕚𝕔𝕙𝕒𝕖𝕝 𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕟"-ℍ𝕖𝕝𝕖𝕟 𝕕𝕚𝕤𝕥𝕠𝕣𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟.
@@AlsarniaWell, it wasn't Michael yet it was just an evil door and evil corridors so I'm impressed it was able to pull the rope at all.
@cantaloupegodling352 I'm now imagining a door holding onto a thin little rope with its hinges
Marcus father was so insistent on his son having a mental health issue that when he finally started seeing doors that Weren't There, his own son, who'd seen these doors his whole life, didn't believe him.
This is so sad.
Wrong, you don't listen in sure you're an idiot in school but the DAD was the one holding him down even when he thought he was crazy. Must be a white boy 🤦🏽♂️
The guy who didn't belive the boy who cried wolf being not believed in by the boy who cried wolf
Spent a lifetime convincing him it wasn't real, so his kid internalized it and then when the shoe was on the other foot it's no surprise the kid believes it's made up
Michael just casually snacking on a guy for years and then Helen finished the whole meal in one go
Daisy: literally murders people
Archival Staff: it's okay Daisy we love you here's a cup of tea
Jon: gives people nightmares once a month SO HE DOESNT DIE
Archival Staff: *flips table*
literally
While emotionally understandable, i wanna punch em all a few times
Its not just death either, but it seems to be a really really bad form of withdrawal compounded by supernatural stuff. In other words, its really not his fault.
why was there three replies but only rwo here
@@phnxtv one was deleted or hidden by youtube, probably
I'm having a very difficult time seeing things from the point of view of the crew.
Ya know
The crew that actively enables Jon's problem and then has the audacity to be shocked that he's worse than before as time progresses? Really?
Using him for their gain and not thinking about the consequences that has on Jon.
Elias must be throwing a party in his cell. This is all really working in his favor right now.
Basira a few episodes ago: "hey, we need you on *full power* to fight the Dark"
Jon: Eats a statement to charge up
Basira: *Surprised Pikachu face*
@@toastghost9145 Dilly, dally.
I can imagine Elias kicking his feet in excitement while listening to all the turmoil
Helen back when she first started existing: Asked for help, didn't feel good about killing people
Helen, after getting yelled at while asking for help: Diet Micheal, now with more Emotional Baggage.
It's weird it's like Jon did the exact same thing everyone here is yelling at the crew for. It's frustrating seeing the double standard at work if not surprising.
@@willowarkan2263I don't think it's a double standard. People weren't as mad at Jon before but some were and they're mad at the crew now because they're making the same mistake and now we know the consequences (or, we think we do, the Spiral *is* lies incarnate)
@willowarkan2263 I agree with the other person. It's not a double standard.
Jon was a regular human that could not understand why this person with a dead woman's face and voice kept coming to him for help, or more accurately, sympathy. Mind you, this creature has tried to kill him (more than once!) and even his companions before, and all while having to listen to the accounts of people that it has hunted over several years, and seen one victim fall for his trap right in front of him. Was it brash of him to immediately tell Helen to fuck off? Quite. *Did it absolutely make sense though?* Absolutely.
Now the crew has been belittling, alienating, and dehumanizing Jon all this season and part of the last season. When he was human, when he had just come back from a near-death experience, before he had saved Melanie and Daisy, and now after he has saved Melanie and Daisy.
And it's crazy how each and every one of them has experienced being influenced by the supernatural and to doing bad things. In this episode we even have Melanie say don't you try to blame needing to heal from me stabbing you. The hypocrisy goes even deeper with how they all treat Helen. A literal monster. One that has always been, for centuries.
@@rai4119 "In this episode we even have Melanie say don't you try to blame needing to heal from me stabbing you."
That's... Not what she said? She was saying "your actions are your own, don't pin it on me." Even if her stabbing led to him leaving, what he did there was still of his own volition. She's saying that she's not responsible for what he did to that woman.
im about to smack the sense back into Basira. She is literally like i can excuse murder but i draw the line at forcing someone to talk to you. Like tf.
shes totally being a bitch but the live statements result in nightmares for the subjects
@@thatgirlendy5294 Plus Jon is fully aware of those nightmares too as he admitted about the sailor dude.
@@thatgirlendy5294 still not as bad as murder
@@mushmushmush honestly, i think it's worse
if you die, you're dead. that's it. gone. unless some fear or other entity has a claim on your soul.
living for years with trauma-- it's much more painful
Basira is a simp.
At this point in the story all of the cast knows the stakes and half of them are murderers or attempted murderers yet they all get pissy at John for giving a few people nightmares. And I thought Tims bitching was insufferable.
Basira didn't kill anyone did she ?
@@achnav3762 No, but Daisy did. And Basira is much more pissed at Jon for his shit than she is at Daisy for police brutality and extrajudicial murder. At a couple of points, she actively defends Daisy for it.
@@achnav3762 21:51
I think Tim being angry throughout season 3 wss justifiable, he had every right to be mad at Jon in my personal opinion, considering the whole stalking and trauma from losing his brother, he was probably in such a bad place, everybody else on the other hand-- 👁👄👁
@@Oshacompliantshibari that's kinda the whole point of Basira's character. How far should loyalty go? There's a danger to the police mindset of "the only person I can trust in this world is my partner, and everyone else is a threat and a danger." So yes, she defends Daisy, because her loyalty to Daisy is a flaw. She goes after Jon because everyone besides Daisy is a monster, in her mind. SPOILERS SPOILER SPOILERS
That's why in season five, Jon has to show Basira that her loyalty is misplaced before they can find Daisy again.
Michael just screaming at people to open the door and not being able to do anything if they don't is my jam 😂😂😂
The spiral is so easy to escape compared to the other fears it’s sad
@@thestranger4894*avoid. Easy to avoid. Actual escape hasn't happened yet...I mean Helen escaped...for a while ...
@@lathyrusloon I don't believe she ever ACTUALLY escaped. She was already done for
@@lathyrusloon And that one guy from episode 100 who casually walked out of the spiral cause he was late for dinner
@@neznamkakvoimedastavim2489Wasn't it a stone spiral like out in the open? I didn't know it was spiral related
😞 "there is nothing in the world more reassuring than ignorance which we can mistake for certainty." Jon over here spitting facts
when Daisy freed herself from the Hunt everyone was happy to forget the multiple murders but John is literally in the same exact situation and everyone is treating him like shit for no reason even though his being an avatar of the eye is actually helpful to them because he’s using his powers to stop rituals.
Not to mention that he's the whole REASON that she's back
I’m a first time watcher so I know this is not a timely comment. But I think there’s an elephant I. The room they’re not addressing, which is that they’ve all given a statement directly to John. And now we know what that means. And they’ve been dealing with it for years. Whether or not it’s on a subconscious level or they’re cognizant of it, John is now a representation of their trauma.
@@SengokuTheGouda I'm not completly sure and I'm a first timer too, but I think in one of the previous episodes Daisy said that she went to Elias's office and signed employment papers and then Jon stopped showing in her dreams, so that would probably apply to all the other Magnus Institute employees too
@modrzewek another first-time listener here, and yeah, working for the Institute gives you protection from the nightmares. However, between them giving the statements and signing the contracts, there was a period of time they definitely *did* have nightmares. So I think @SengokuTheGouda has a point
@@marylii04Counterpoint, Melanie and Basira had already signed the contract before John even went into a coma, but only after he came back, when he most needed help to remain "human", They start to act in an aggressive way and judge him for everything he does. There is also the example of Daisy, who also went through nightmares, but is now making an effort to be his friend and support him, in a way.
You can hear Helen slowly becomming more of the spiral every time you hear her. Talking more and more like Michael too. jon... you had an opportunity to help her and you blew it.
When?
@@late_prince8945 When she first changed, she went to Jon for help as two just-beginning-to-be-evil-avatars.... She begged him for help and he accused her of 'pretending to be Helen' (episode 115 i think?).
@@Nizati but like... how can Jon help her? Even if Jon helped her, I don’t think that would change her back to normal/Helen.
@@zaki4418 Well, no. But she would have been more likely to help, and maybe struggle to keep more of her human traits like Jon right now.
yeah when she first became part of the distortion she sounded more like monotone and confused? Serious? Now you can hear some amusement in her voice, and the weird scratchy echo that Micheal had as well.
why are they all being so horrible to jon? daisy literally killed ppl and they forgave her almost immediately and are making excuses for her? why is jon being treated so differently:((
exactly! daisy was being influenced by the Hunt just like jon is being influenced by the Eye, and hes being influenced moreso probably as the Eye’s avatar. wish they would stop blaming job for everything :(
When anyone in the archives stubs their toe on a coffee table they blame Jon. Everyone here signed the employment contract and they all blame Jon for getting them into this.
Hes just the easiest punching bag since he hardly fights back and he isnt half as intimidating as Elias or Peter Lucas😔
I think that if Daisy represents police brutality and abuse of power, then Basira represents all the mostly-good cops who turn a blind eye to those actions, or even excuse and help hide them. That's why she's way harsher on Jon than on Daisy. Because Jon is an addict, a "criminal," and an Avatar, and if she sympathizes with him that opens her to the possibility that all the other murdered Avatars and criminals she let Daisy kill deserved leniency too.
@@Elaizel SPOT ON.
Basira: Shut up, it's not the same thing at all!
Me: Yeah it's not, Jon doesn't kill people, just gives them some nightmares.
**starts staring Basira down**
There's a lot of people talking about the Jon bullying, and that's its own thing, but the that drove me wild was Basira's "fine, I'll go alone." It's pure manipulation, banking on the people around you not letting you intentionally self-destruct. I frickin hate it.
fr, she did it before to convince Jon to go along with her half-baked plan to get rid of the anti-sun, too
Serious. Daisy's passive aggressive "IT WOULD BE NICE TO PREPARE" is funny, considering their history.
I'm like really disappointed with the crew and how they're treating Jon this season,,, poor Jon actually needs a break and helpful friends,,, like Jon NEVER asked for any of this, none of them did, and yet they seem to think blaming everything on Jon is helping anyone?? One of these days he's actually gonna have a mental monster breakdown and I'm scared.
It's OK. I'm sure next season will be fine for him.
same fucking here, and basira worst of all.
At least they are willing to entertain the idea he's being manipulated by the web.... But yeah, they are being mean about it.
@@mimkyodar this is... so ominous....
@@f_mva Nah, its fine. Don't even worry about it. It's gonna just me him and Martin spending lots of quality time together. Maybe a cup of tea, a nice walk in the country. It'll be fine.
I honestly couldn't give a fuck if they're scared of Jon now because of spooky eye-powers, or scared _for_ him like Martin is
Not when they kept pushing him into using his powers at every turn, especially when it was against his will or at gun-point
I don't care if they're just using anger as a bad coping mechanism, they're being incredibly unfair, and at least Jon and Daisy are aware of it, even if Daisy isn't really doing anything to stop it
They also keep reinforcing his self-loathing, which leads him more and more into thinking he should do the world a favor and off himself (if he could), but then they get angry when he risks his own skin to help someone else,
They tell him he should _starve himself_ , and even worse he then actually _does just that_
until he gets _so_ hungry he starts feeding on any random bystander that happens to have the right kind of trauma - and then they get angry at him for that too! Fucking newsflash, everyone needs SOME kind of sustenance, and this is just what happens when you cut someone OFF! What did they _think_ was gonna happen?! That he'd just happily sit in the archives while being eaten up by the Eye until he _actually_ dies?!
And this little "intervention" was just a fucking train wreck, because they just used it to tell him that he fucked up and they're angry, and didn't even TRY to come up with a way to prevent any more future incidents, and they _definitely_ didn't do it out of concern for him
And then??? They just jump to the next possible topic change they come across! Nobody's even taking that "intervention" thing serious! They've already given up, while literally defending a _murderer_
All _this_ did was push him farther away from any chance at a support system, and also alienate him even more from other humans - and if he thinks he isn't human anymore, well we've all heard what happens then, don't we? That's right, the more he thinks he's just another monster, the more he ACTS like it! Un-fucking-surprisingly
Gods every time I re-listen to this season it just makes me more angry at how he's being treated
First time listener here. Do they ever let up or apologize or get called out? Bc the Jon bullying that everyone is doing and getting away with is seriously disturbing me and bringing back some past traumas and I'm considering dropping the podcast.
@@wonderlilane3724 they work it out... Uh. Kinda
I mean - Jon will be treated better. Kinder. Let's - well, I can't say much more without MAJOR spoilers. This season is a really rough one, and it also almost made me drop it bc of similar reasons, but I find it worth it sticking through
@@lemmetalkaboutthis Alright, I'll keep at it then. I'm still curious about what's gonna happen, but in all honesty I'm not enjoying listening to the podcast anymore, not least bc of similar personal experiences with bullying. Wish it was in the content warnings for this season at least.
@@wonderlilane3724 did you end up finishing it?
@@calamity2383 Nope. I ended up dropping it after all.
The staff are all people who have given statements directly to Jon and they sympathize intimately with his "victims". I think they're afraid of him. Sure, Daisy killed people and whatnots but you could always looked the other way, plus she doesn't anymore. Jon, on the other hand, they're trapped with, all the while doing the things that make them afraid of him in the first place. And so being angry at him is how they cope, it makes them feel in control. It's not fair, but this story is not.
I think what most of us get _really_ angry about is that _they_ are also the ones who are still actively pushing John into using his powers, while being horrible to him just because his powers are growing (you know.... From constantly frigging using them)
Yes they are also victims, but they're being incredibly hypocritical
And even Daisy, who should know better because she was in his place, isn't really standing up for him, or really doing anything to stop them
I like how you put it.It’s frustrating and terrible, but it does make sense. And it's kind of delicious in an evil way...
Gonna be honest here I was not expect to find a nuanced take in this comment section
A bit question but I think I know you from Facebook? Tnpl's friend?
it makes sense on why their upset, but they aren't much better given (as mentioned in many other comments) how their treating him.
Like its basically works like spells and mana, everytime time uses his powers like spells use up that energy from feeding, so he has to feed more to replenish it. Telling him to stop feeding, but still use those powers is like telling someone to cast a spell with no mana- which depending on world, casting spells with no mana has varying effects (doesn't work at all, starts to drain stamina/health instead, Exhaustion levels stacking up, etc). Here using the powers without feeding leads to the Powers draining his health essentially, aka killing him because he can't replenish that energy.
Two types of comments this episode:
1- The Spiral playing tug of war with a child.
2- People being angry with Basira for being mad at Jon.
Yo is it just me or are all of these characters turning incredibly unlikeable. Like they’ve all been treating Jon like shit for YEARS.
I just became aware of this podcast. I am of the opinion that the influence of these gods are altering the characters’ minds.
I'm glad to know Helen inherited the creepy laugh.
Goddd the hypocrisy here is killing me...Basira who turned the other cheek at her partners serial killer activities and is now chewing Jon out for things that at least aren't actual murder, Melanie who has apparently no trouble being besties with Helen who still very much eats people, them scapegoating Jon for each and every single thing that goes wrong in their lives, the comparison with Daisy doesn't work either bc Daisy is actively removed from any environment that would encourage her problem (like defending the archives) while Jon is still expected to make use of his powers (even though using them makes the hunger worse), like if you didn't want him to go full monster the time for that would have been right after the coma, instead you actively antagonize and isolate him and write him off as a lost cause thats on thin ice despite not actually having done anything yet and then they have the nerve to act surprised this happened!
absolutely LOVING hellen's laugh
a lesser known power of the avatar of the spiral: lovely laughter
The Spiral had far too much fun with this guy lmao
Took me way too long to find someone talking about the statement.
@@fakenayhn Has been like this for a few dozens of episodes. People will either talk about anything except the episode or just repeat the same point in the top comments over and over
@@zGabaz never before has it bothered me when people talk about the characters instead of the story, because most of the time you cant talk about one without talking about the other, but its like tma fans either only care about the characters or gave up on understanding the story or something.
@@fakenayhn Exactly, same with me. And I mean, it is fine talking about the characters because you can say a lot about them in this story anyway. My real pet peeve here is that most comments are just the same head cannons repeated all over again and people just ignore the important information and dialogues in the episode. Nice to see that I was not the only one under this impression.
A few things:
1. I’m under the impression that Jon could just as easily (if not more easily) feed by recording existing statements instead of dragging them out of unwilling people.
2. The people around Jon are understandably horrified at what he’s been doing.
3. Basira continually allowed Daisy’s murders for years, supporting them through her inaction. Why is she so much more upset with Jon than with Daisy?
4. Daisy is starting to grow on me since she stopped using state violence as a means to brutalize people.
respect to the kid who was clearly facing some horror movie BS and was fighting with it
STOP BULLYING JON
At this point it really seems like everyone has gotten into their heads that all of their problems are Jon's fault. I dont think it started off like this but now it seems like they find it easier to just blame Jon rather than deal with things. Hes become a scapegoat for all of them because its easier to blame one person than it is to face the real issues
Hmm... what is Jon isnt being controlled by the spider, but its everyone else.
I know I’m coming in years later, but I’m honestly banking on their increased hatred for Jon this season being that they feel as if they have to hate somebody.
Elias is in prison and it’s not really like they see enough of Lukas to complain about him. They’re turning their hurt and rage and pain on him because he’s the nearest, as you said, scapegoat.
They have no other outlet and I’m beginning to suspect that perhaps the influence of the Eye is making them voice their true feelings a bit more than they would otherwise. Maybe this conjecture of mine will never get answered
@@luxill0s I’m also coming into it late and I think it’s moreso that they all gave him statements. We already had previous confirmation that he was appearing in Daisy and Melanie’s dreams. Safe to assume he is in Basira’s as well. And now we know that him appearing means them reliving their trauma every night.
@@SengokuTheGoudaThey work for the Eye so wouldn't be seeing him, according to Daisy.
The conjecture that they're being influenced to turn on Jon has merit. The Web is all over the Archives. Jon's comment that he thought Elias knew everything but it felt like those events were *orchestrated*..its almost as if Elias is directly working for the Web as well as the Eye. And what happens if Jon's support system convinces him he is beyond hope? He will turn to Elias--I was always struck how kindly and encouragingly he spoke to Jon. Elias and the Eye are set up as the only friends Jon has.
It makes me really happy to see everyone in the comments talking about the main crew being mean to Jon. I feel like we're united against them bullying our poor archivist.
I've been terrified watching these, but I feel like this is the first time I've been irrationally angry. The son putting off his dad's fears pisses me off for personal reasons. The crew's treatment of John makes me angry for entirely different reasons
Really guys.... The characters have been at this for... What a year or more in the timeline now? They shouldn't be so ready to dismiss jon as a lost cause just because he accidentally feeds on ppl's past. Atleast hes not killing them out right.
The issue is that it brings back the memories long since buried, usually through nightmares. This sort of think has mentioned to lead to insomnia and suicide.
@@InsainCat was the use of the word buried intentional?
Plus he feels guilty as hell for doing it.
HELEN 😍
Also I'd really like to hear Basira's explanation for how murder is forgivable but Jon's questions aren't. I liked her so much in previous seasons; it's weird to see her like this
I’m *this* close to defenestrating everyone that comes near Jon. LEAVE. MY BOY. ALONE. BUT NOT IN THAT WAY???????????
I can't believe I've just said "at least they don't hate him quite *that* obviously these days" right as I was about to start this episode.
Sure, Daisy was so different. Oh so very different.
And it's not like Jon is trying to save the world or anything.
Great how they all just came to judge him. Just great.
And Martin. Didn't even want to deal with this himself. I know he has his brilliant plans and schemes in the Lonely or whatever, but this is a pretty low blow. Just leaving a tape for the ladies to tear him apart? Of course they wouldn't have any problems murdering him and mounting his head on the wall, seeing how they all alredy hate him and just need an excuse to attack.
I feel like my own mental state is deteriorating along with Jon's.
So it's safe to assume it comes to these extreme outbursts when Jon really needs to restore his energy. The whole Melanie ordeal, the Buried, the boat carrying them towards the Dark... These experiences make him vulnerable somehow. I don't think it's the Web, but he obviusly isn't doing this of his own good will. It's his survival instict kicking in, wether he wants it or not.
All these suicide missions... I wonder if he can die at all. Or will the monstrous part of him just take over and spit the bullet back out?
Jon has apparently personally decided that bad things will happen to people on purpose. the way they're reading him anyway...
At this point? I want Jon to eat everyone except Daisy. They’re so nasty to him and I understand that they’re scared because they’re human but Jon is still trying to hold onto the last bit of humanity he has left. If I were him, then treating me like this would be my final straw.
my opinion:
yes what jon did was bad, and it doesn't seem like hes being directly controlled, BUT one, they still shouldn't treat him like that and two, its a combination of the eye influencing him and what appears to be a literal, partially physical need for statments.
The crew: _God,_ why can't you just _Know_ everything? Just use you magical stuff, it's not that hard.
Also the crew: How dare you feed on a few people!! We don't care if you need it to _survive,_ just-- don't feed it!
@@savethebees2574and not to mention the feeding part is literally feeding into his power sooooooooooo 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
uh oh... going to hilltop road is probably the worst thing they could do...
HELP THE IDEA OF MICHEAL TRYING OVER AND OVER TO GET THIS PERSON AND FAILING JS SO FUNNY IDK WHY
Jon over here ending evil rituals with her, and pulling her bestie, who wanted to murder him mind you, out of an undying torment. Basira acts like this towards him. And somehow daisys years long kill streak doesnt matter cause it's inconvenient to her hypocrisy. Jon deserves better. For all he's done for them and the world at this point he deserves far far better than being treated like a thing.
You know, I think I've figured out exactly why the crew being so awful to Jon upsets me SO MUCH, and it's because I grew up in a really fucked up and abusive household and learned EARLY that, as scary and painful as it is, if you have others trapped with you, you band together, you do not also turn on one another. Being the oldest kid, I was able to kinda direct this with the younger ones so we were a team, but I've seen other families where they devolved into hatred and it broke everyone else so much more.
Which isn't to say it's unrealistic, or unreasonable, or anything like that in regards to them all being scared of Jon--i get the logic, i get the fear, and i get how they've fallen into this. It just. Hurts. Because if you can manage to keep the hope alive at least a little, find ways to support each other just a bit, it helps so goddamn much.
Watching Jon become the scapegoat instead of getting the support he needs just...breaks my heart, because they'd ALL fare better if they could see (heh) the true solution to their problems.
I know it's not a perfect comparison. They're not an actual family, eldritch horrors, etc. But I just know exactly what it is to live in abject terror, to fear for your life and the lives of those you care about, and I know that while it's hard, staying compassionate through that pays off in huge ways.
Just. Sad. I love this podcast but I get so sad listening to Jon suffer alone, devaluing himself and feeling like a monster because no one is there to offer any support
It is sad how bad everyone is treating Jon. I mean I get it that Jon isnt the best person in town but still give the man a break he came out of a fucking coma and The Buried and yet everyone is treating him like shit. And now Melanie and Basira are pouncing on him for forcing statements out of people as if they both are any better humans.
I wasn’t fond of Daisy in the beginning but I like her now because she seems to at least understand Jon. She has also owned up to her past wrongdoings and I respect her for that, but it still isn’t fair that Basira has accepted Daisy but not Jon. I get that Daisy and Basira are probably romantically involved or whatever but still not fair.
Everyone around Jon expects him to just Know things and when he doesn’t they get so impatient and blame him for everything.
Melanie fucking stabbed him and everyone was just okay with that.
Now that I think about it, Basira, Melanie and Daisy are treating Jon the same way that Jon treated Tim, not-Sasha and Martin in season 2 and season 3. Well what can I say, as you sow, so shall you reap. Karma.
Back in the last two seasons I was a severe Jon bully, because that man deserved a slap on the back of his head with a rolled up newspaper to get back into the world but now it's… different. Jon is becoming more and more human as he gains more and more of his monstrous powers.
You know what, that's the thing. Each one of these characters in these god forsaken podcast are selfish and uncaring and fucked up, and that is exactly what makes them all the more likable, relatable and real.
I am so here for this analysis!
You get it
I feel so bad for Jon...you'd think it's him being claimed by the Lonely and not Martin, seeing how he's being treated. How long will it take that they start locking him up or something?
My gods, I am immeasurably angry at everyone. I can’t believe how badly they’re treating Jon. Sure, what he did wasn’t exactly okay, but they were wayyy out of line accusing him like that and refusing to listen to him. I don’t get why they forgave Daisy if they won’t do the same for Jon, who is both less harmful to his victims AND more useful as he gets more powerful-they’re the ones to ask him to use his powers so often in the first place. It just makes me absolutely livid.
YAY! Distortion has it's smile back!!!
I love that laugh! :-)
God, they all treat Jon like shit. I really want Martin to come back, see how far they’ve pushed him, how they all then blame _him_ for many things he cannot control, and then I want him to yell at them and tell them what for.
Helen's laugh just made me miss Michael 🥺
I think Jon deserves to Snap TM at the others in one of the next episodes, it’s only fair tbh
Daisy is so done with everything I love her
i am crying over one (1) fictional man
As of this episode, every character but Jon and the Admiral has my full permission to *just* *die.*
And Major Tom! He's just living his life.
Relistening three years later and knowing how it all goes, and I stand by my statement.
I can't tell if I want Jon to completely lose his shit at the others so they realise how shitty they are, or if I want him to become so overwhelmingly depressed that they realise how shitty they are.
DOES THIS STORY HAVE A HAPPY ENDING? OR ANY MORE HAPPY BITS? I HAVENT HEARD A HAPPY MOMENT IN SEASONS! WHERE IS THE HAPPY? IM STARVING HERE!
"Sometimes we just have to leave...even if whats on the other side scares you".
Oh no.
you know what I love helen
yes!
the joint "shut up" is the funniest thing ever. they're silencing grubby jesus
I’m beginning to feel the call of the slaughter the longer these characters go after Jon. At least he feels bad about becoming a not human despite using his abilities for the greater good of humanity. It’s honestly almost to the point of giving up on the podcast entirely. What’s the point if I’m not invested in anyone?
Why are they so mean to Jon. :/
Why is Jon so mean to Helen :/
@@himeow7454He’s racisy
Man at this point if the Eye didn’t already claim Jon as its Special Boy then the Lonely would have taken him right up, it’s not like he has anyone willing to talk to him anyway. I’m sure he could fit the bill
this season I'm really seeing the tragedy side of the podcast
The way Basira deals with the situation about Jon feeding on people's trauma stories reminds me of a certain type of dog owners. The one where a person says that their dog is nice, friendly and never bit anyone ever, while said dog is tearing apart an unfortunate neighbour kid on the background.
It's literally the type of relationship Daisy and Basira are in. A dog and a dog owner 👁
Maaan, I was binge-listening this show nonstop at first, but as every episode bookends with a conga line of everyone bullying Jon (the man can't open his mouth for more than three words in a row without them yelling at him, seriously! this really isn't great from an audio-listener perspective), I've had to take long breaks between episodes because it's just so tiresome and depressing. I'm close enough to the end now and I'm holding out hope that the ensemble stops being so unlikeable by the finale >_< At least the horror stories hold up, which has always been my primary enjoyment anyway.
I just want to give Jon a hug he needs it
I think all of the characters have been perfectly imperfect in the way the deal with trauma and so so human (are they human? lmao) also Jon being the avatar of the eye means he is literally the enbodiment of one of THE fears (specifically the one that has them captive) so their reactions to him are really good in my opinion
You know, a simple eating solution would to only read the statements of people who died after giving their statements and/or old people about to die. Then the nightmares won't matter!
When Elias was narrating Jon’s coma nightmare, there were only people who gave live statements. It seems like written statements don’t add to the nightmares at all, and I assume the statement givers don’t get the nightmares when they do it that way either.
i don't tend to comment much, but i thought i'd leave my thoughts here- this statement made me so sad, but also blew my mind with how the son was discounting his father's statement as nothing but the ramblings of a lonely man. it's fantastic how this podcast makes the listener consolidate multiple perspectives and tellings, and what dynamics emerge from that
martin istg where tf are u ?? everybody is blaming jon for their probmels , help ! pls just ..im scared shitless rn , i had too much coffe and ahhhh martin pls , jon protection squad needs the president , these are desperate times martin
the gang puts jon on a vegan diet
The Spiral really wanted this one.
thank god the theories about that woman who left the statement about jon being a liar or an avatar for the web or confusing him with someone else werent true. that said... oof
“I iT’s NoT tHe SaMe” YEA DAISY MURDERED JON GIVES NIGHTMARES AND GETS INFORMATION THEY BOTH WHERE/ARE AVATARS WTF MAKES JONS WORSE?!? YOU LIEK ONE?!?
I hate these new assistants’ personality, I want my Sasha back.
PLEASE
And s1 tim
Weird how 2 murder cops and the slaughter addict are all happy about the hungry door but take the time to gang up on the nosy manager.
RIP Jon's respect
I remember when I listened to MAG 27 (Marcus' father one). It was a month and half ago. And now I'm here. So much happened in so short period of time for me ah ah. Diving into TMA was the best thing that happened to me this summer (and I had a very good summer)
finallyyy someone who said what the statement connected to this was 😭
I was scrolling finding and trying to figure it out...
I noticed it’s almost always the corruption which chooses ppl who are starving for love. Most evident example is Jane prentice. Also that guy in MAG102, and maggots crier over here… I just thought I might mention that🐛💕
Its because those people feel like garbage, so only garbage could love them. :(
@@krishadyn5211 I hate how I relate to that :D💔
Damn he got exposed.
Knock knock! Who's there? THE DOOR.
MAG146: Threshold. An Excruciatingly Deep Analysis. Word Count: 6702 .
It wasn't a scene of the three assistants confronting Jon at Martin's behest, it was a scene of desperacy for a tangible target that couldn't overpower them the way every other monster had, that could be loosely quantified as deserving every ugly emotion they've had to direct inwards. I think a large part of season four as a whole, is the lack of a "big bad guy" and how the absence of one big pure evil enemy can actually. make things worse sometimes. because back when Elias was present everyone had someone to blame. all their anger about their respective situations could be tied back to elias and so everyone had common ground in their hatred for him, they had an outlet. Tim and Melanie both lashed out at almost everyone but in the end it was Elias Melanie tried to kill multiple times. It was Elias that Tims rage always traced back to, and they he held as the true evil until his bitter end. Basira could blame Elias since he's the one who practically forced her into joining the institute to save Daisy. It made things easy. It was simple because it's so easy to direct all your hatred towards the person who's the obvious big bad antagonist. But as soon as Elias was not present anymore, none of them had that outlet anymore. That's a large part of the reason that Jon’s the one being scapegoated. He's the only one with no connection to them all. And the only one they can safely turn their rage towards. Basira and Daisy have a bond near unbreakable due to their history, Melanie and Basira went through the trauma of the Flesh attack together, Daisy and Melanie have the common thread of both being people attempting redemption despite it being what feels like their nature. And through this, they all have something connecting them all. With Jon, there's a lacking in that common thread. Especially since it was Tim who saved everyone from the unknowing. Plus, what makes Jon easy, is the fact that they can trace even just the littlest something involved with him. The point is, when Elias was there, everyone had something they could tie reeeally directly to their issues. But now thats he’s not. Jons the next closest thing. And many aspects about who he is as a person makes it ever so easier to put blame on him. Not only is he non confrontational and self blaming, so he doesn't have it in him to be a danger to anyone who may confront him. But, with the rapid deterioration of his mental state, he's been making bad decisions. He's been unintentionally hurting a few innocent people. And those two things combined are just enough to make him the perfect replacement outlet. Because god with everything they're going through they need something. Because, all in all, it's nobody's fault. And that is the hardest fact for anyone in their situation to accept. Because blame is easy. Blame is simple and blame lets you cast all your misfortunes onto one person without having to take painful responsibility for them. And right now? Fate is the one at fault. Everything is being subtly influenced by the web in a way that simply makes it so fate was the sole decider all along. The end was decided from the beginning. Nothing could have helped that fact. Everybody wound up in their positions because fate deemed them unlucky souls and no matter what they hoped or dreamed or wished to do there was nothing that could have been done because every single one of them was just a plaything for destiny to reel at. And that is the absolute most excruciating thing to accept in their circumstance. Because none of them can handle what they've gone through. And to accept that there's absolutely nothing that ever could have been done about it is. Devastating. Because why should Jon have been born to suffer, why should Melanie have had to live a life built off a burning stick tower of shaky rage, why should Daisy have had to live the life of a desperate predator that she can barely redeem herself for, why should Basira have to dedicate her life to something that-
has only ever backfired on her, and went through so much trauma because of. Every single one of them is at the absolute worst possible spot they could be at for one reason or another (except possibly Daisy), so what other option do they have besides creating blame when the alternative is accepting it was hopeless all along. They're all desperate.
Now, to further explain my next point I'm going to bring in some historical context for the term "scapegoat". Based in the Bible, a scapegoat is one of two baby goats; the other is sacrificed, while the other is sent into the desert, carrying all of the sins and impurities with it. The idea is initially mentioned in the Book of Leviticus, where a goat is assigned to be sent into the desert in order to carry away the sins of the community. Historically, this can be seen in many concepts. All of which are corrupt, and yet simultaneously used as one massive coping mechanism for the ways things are. The term though, interestingly (and ironically seeing a trend in historical scapegoats) enough, is rooted in ancient Judaism. Once a year, during Yom Kippur, Cohen Gadol sacrificed a bull as a sin offering to atone for all the sins he had inadvertently committed during the year. Then he took two goats and brought them to the door of the tent. Two goats were chosen by lot: one offered as a blood sacrifice, and the other as a scapegoat to be sent into the desert and pushed down a steep chasm where he died. The blood of the slain goat was taken behind the curtain into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled on the closing plate, the lid of the ark of the covenant. Later, the high priest confessed the intentional sins of the Israelites to God and figuratively placed them on the head of another goat, the scapegoat Azazel, who would symbolically "take them away". Now this is a very important analysis of a "scapegoat" because of how it narratively fits into the magnus archives you'll notice, that in the more ancient torah based description, it's abundantly clear that rather than simply an instrument for atonement, the goat is a sacrifice. The sins of the world were all placed on a rather innocent creature, and due to this, it met its untimely demise for reasons none other than fate. I like this specification, because I think it shows a really important context for the situation Jon is is. He isn't just being blamed for other people's problems, he's being utterly destroyed by them. Jons mental deterioration throughout the season has been nothing but noticeable in every way possible. And really? It's mostly due to that. He has an i n s a n e amount of survivors guilt at this point as pointed out by Daisy in Scrutiny, "And of course, for John, there’s survivor’s guilt in there, too. He thinks he’s not human. Makes him very… self-destructive.". So to have such an immense amount of guilt, and then have all the people around you, who you strive to have some sort of trust with, place all this blame on you, is detrimental. Not only is it a punishment perfectly tailored to match what Jons weakest point is, but it's also one that puts him in a cycle of agony that makes the entire situation worse. A sacrifice. It sends him into a vicious cycle of [ deteriorating due to being blamed -> not being able to sustain the pressure and agony of it and needing more statements -> taking more statements -> scapegoated for taking statements -> deteriorating due to being blamed ]. He's caught between a rock and a hard place with the situation because the ways the assistants are coping with their situation is directly contributing to exactly what they get on him for. They see him as a monster for doing what he does, and continue to deliberately try and make him feel worse, which only makes him need to do more of what they hate him for and no on and so forth. It's a vicious cycle full of unhealthy coping that none of them know how to withstand.
So, now that we have down the motives for scapegoating Jon and where Jon stands in the situation and what narrative role he's playing, we can now move on to the scene itself and the fundamentals of each character's stance in it.
(PART ONE OF ??, SEE REPLIES)
Coping: and how it interferes with regression of development.
Firstly, I'm going to be starting with Daisy and there's a chance it's because she's my favorite and there's a chance it's because her stance is the most interesting. I lied, it's because she's my favorite! But either way, Daisy in this scene is the most conflicted character, and for extremely good reason. You'll notice that in her speech, she's almost desperately trying not to take sides, because she's the most aware of all the characters. She's undergone the most development and because of it is able to understand perspectives to a point where taking one is just something that's too difficult for her. After escaping the grasp of the Hunt, she's dedicated herself to atonement. Daisy has done terrible, inexcusable things in the past in order to feed the hunt. And since escaping it has done every single thing in her power to make up for it, no matter how hard. But the thing is. She's just as affected as all of them. And that's what makes her actions in this scene so interesting to look at. Because she can. not. blame Jon. She was Jon not too long ago she sees herself in him to a point where it's painful. Because she too was caught in a place where she had to do things she knew were wrong simply to satisfy the desire of the hunt. She knows just how hard it is. She knows the agony that Jon’s having to go through so she can't stand to see Basira and Melanie acting like he has full control. And yet at the same time, she can't bring herself to go against Basira. Because just as much as she knows where Jon is, she was on the police force with Basira. And cant help but see the justice side of the argument. She can't help but see how her circumstances differ from Ions in a way that Basira points out. So as much as she can see herself in where Jon is, she's incapable of not also being able to understand the points being made by the rest and where they are coming from due to how she knows that the logic for herself cant be applied to Jon. Since Jon knows what he's doing and she didn't. Since Jon hasn't been able to resist but she has. And a part about that fact is that it's Basira making it. She also still has a loyalty to Basira that makes it. Very, very difficult to fully go against her. So she becomes caught in a place where taking full, distinct sides becomes a difficult endeavor. In the interaction, she's never the one making the points against Jon, but she's also not the one ever advocating for him. She makes a single comment about how Jons situation was similar to hers to try and reason with Basira slightly, but shut up about it after a few vague comments once she saw how driven Basira was in her convictions. BASIRA - You’re a danger, John. A monster. You’re hurting innocent people. ARCHIVIST - So did Daisy. BASIRA - Shut up. It’s not the same thing at all. DAISY - Basira. He has a point. BASIRA - You didn’t know what you were doing. [DAISY MAKES A PAINED SOUND, AS IF TO CONTRADICT HER, BUT STOPS.]. In this interaction especially, you can see just how tied she is between her understanding of both sides. She knows what Jons going through, but she also knows the differences in their circumstances, and it's not something she has solid ground to argue for. Now, bringing the regression topic in, I'll talk about how playing into this coping regresses her development as a character. Daisys current arc, and the one she's been having, is about fighting against her own monster hood. It's about resisting herself. About recognizing what she's done and atonement for it. It's about trying rather than succeeding. It's about fighting against your nature for what you know is right. So when upon seeing someone whos in as pained and monstrous a condition as she was, she cant bring-
herself to fight for them due to inconsistencies with what she believes, she regresses back to the person she was. The one who let their own morals get in the way of what was right. The one who allowed people to get hurt simply because it was "for the greater good." The way that regression is highlighted for her in this scene is how a blinding sense of morals and justice becomes too bright for her to act on the right thing. Even when staring at a pitiful version of the person she used to be. Character regression here works in the way where when tasked with empathy and understanding, she instead prioritized her own personal way of seeing things.
Second, and much more simple of a spectacle to observe: Ms Melanie King. Melanie is a lot simpler to talk about, and mostly since her motives and ways of thinking are very direct and straightforward. Melanie is a character plagued by anger. She drew an unlucky hand in life, and the only way she was able to rise up to become a person she could be proud of was through fighting her way there tooth and nail, scratching and kicking and biting. So when everything comes crashing down on her. When everything she fought with her life for is suddenly destroyed, she can not blame herself. Because if she admits to herself that it was simply fate's fault that her career collapsed and that it was her fault that she joined the institute in the first place, then it means that everything will have been for nothing. And that her absolute rock bottom in life was all and only because of her. That. is NOT something she can face. And the rage that was once used to build her up in life, is redirected towards the ones who she sees fit to blame. First it was Elias. He hired her, he's the one commanding under the name of the eye, he's the one whose fault it is, and he's the one who she's going to take her rage out on. And so she did. And then Elias was gone. And her rage was taken over by the slaughter. In the time Jon was in a coma her anger festered, it grew, it empowered her and became more a part of her than ever. So once Jon was back, she had an outlet again. And boy did it make it ever so easy for her, though all through good intentioned. Jons surprise little surgery to help release her from the slaughter, the fact that it was her statement she made to him that got her involved with the institute at first, the fact that he's becoming less and less human. So many things about what Jon was doing and had done made it horrifyingly easy for her to place her rage on him. And so, all her anger was redirected towards the archivist that ruined her life. I think at this point it's also worth mentioning Melanie's pride and how it plays into her as a character. She's undergone a l o t of character change. But aside from her frustration the one thing that's stayed stagnant about her as a person is her pride. She took great pride in where she managed to get herself in life back when Ghost Hunt UK was up and her life was at its peak. It was her pride and joy and it's what boosted her ego so high because it's something she did for herself with her own bare hands. So when that collapsed, one of the massive reasons that she needed to blame someone so bad was due to the fact that if she admitted that it was her fault, then all that pride would have collapsed with the rest of her life. Navigating blame away from herself and avoiding acceptance is her way of preserving her ego, which is the only thing she really has left after all she's undergone. And due to this ego, it's also what makes her the most stubborn and fierce during this scene. And so, so willing to go against Jon at any and all costs. But tracing back to this pride of hers, I think it's an aspect that's actually quite a lot during the intervention. The moment Jon refers to her as being a character in an explanation of his she immediately assumes he's trying to blame her for it all. [ ARCHIVIST - The second was… it was after I got stabbed by Melanie. MELANIE - You are not putting this on me ]. She does this again, but this time when Jons agrees with her, this being a blow to her ego that someone like him could even think to agree with an idea of hers. [ ARCHIVIST - She does have a point. MELANIE - I did NOT ask you.] So now that motives and reasoning are out of the way, it's time to explain how regression is doing its work on Melanie here. Melanie's key point in her development as a character is. actually almost hilariously obvious to a point where she's actually seen as reasonable for a split second of her life. She got therapy. An honestly hilariously smart solution to the arising problems but. It was impressive for Melanie. Because her getting help after never once leaning on anyone around her was a massive step for her. It was a release of her pride, a recognition of her needing help from someone, of realizing she wasn't ok, and going out and getting it. Which god is more than can be said for most characters but essentially what therapy meant for her character development, was that she was finally taking a step to acknowledge her irrational anger and work to fix it. What happened in this scene for her, was a messy entanglement with the automatic unleashing of anger that she's always been so accustomed to, and the fact that she just took a massive step to stop that habit of hers. Regression is present here in the way that here, it's that automatic unleashment that ends up dominating, and becomes what overtakes her in this scene. The person she's been trying too hard to become fades away, and she moves back into the bitter, angry, spiteful person she was at the beginning of season four, still infected with the slaughter.
(PART TWO OF ?? SEE REPLIES FOR MORE)
Basira is. undoubtedly the most complicated one. Daisys motives are the most contradicting, but Basira is the most dominant figure in what's happening, making her actions the most intense, and controversial. Basira is. complicated. She's extremely justice oriented and will do just about anything if it's for the wellbeing of the innocent and good of the world. She doesn't have the same "maul and kill the bad protect the good '' philosophy as Daisy, and is much less violent, but nonetheless lets her judgment of if people are good or not define her actions. And this goes for just about everything she has an opinion on, even changing what she thinks drastically if someone's morals shift. The only exception to this rule is Daisy, who seems to always have some affection towards whether what she's doing is good or not. The only time she's ever intervened with Daisy's immoral behavior is when she was going to kill Jon, who was someone Basira saw as moral. This type of mindset of hers got to the point where she completely turned on the police force the moment she recognized it as corrupt without even a second thought or dilemna about what she had sacrificed years upon years of work for. Unlike Daisy, who's developed to be able to see in shades of gray, Basira is still stuck at a point of black and white thinking. Deeming people as either "good" or a "monster." However over time, what went from just a mindset, became an utter and absolute crutch for her. She kept having to save herself from more and more situations. Rayners incident where she had to save herself from the chaos of the situation to when she had to rely entirely on her own head and wits to survive the unknowing, Basira slowly yet surely gets to a point where she can only trust to rely on herself, and her logic. After being through hell and back in Section 31 and then the institute she longs for stability, and gets this by having a rock solid state of mind that develops into the one and only thing she can depend on This gets especially reinforced in season four, when she's forced to take a leadership position. After the unknowing, her one, true last anchor besides herself disappears. Daisy was the one thing she could always count on, the one thing that was always there as an undeniable constant no matter what. But after Daisy was gone, she was left truly alone. So with Jon gone, Elias in prisoned, Martin out on his own agenda, and everyone else besides Melanie dead, she's forced to take leadership of the operation that is the archives. This in itself makes her extremely self sufficient. Becoming more and more self reliant and she increasingly loses anchors. This is likely around the time that she started really looking up to Gertrude, someone who all by herself did an unbelievable amount of justice for the world no matter what it took, or who had to be sacrificed to do it. Gertrudes self sufficiency, her effort, her efficiency, her image, everything Gertrude was, Basira strived to be. She's entirely independent, researching her own things and going all around the country without telling anyone about what she's doing. Leading all the operations such as the stopping of the dark ritual and now, going to investigate hilltop roads. She's undeniably retreated into herself, and no longer is used to being anything but autonomous. Because relying on herself for everything is how she copes. She turns herself into a pillar of stability which she must never leave, terrified that she would otherwise collapse. However despite seeming logical, she also greatly uses Jon as just as much of a scapegoat as Melanie, albeit more subconsciously. The problem that arises with Basira a bit more, is bias. Bias towards what's helpful to her personally, bias towards stability, and a strong bias against things that both destable her, and don't fit her view of justice. I'm going to have to try and word this simply because Basira is a little complicated, but essentially, her black and white view of the world mixes with her biases very badly. Being either extremely tolerant, or extremely intolerant. Due to her self sufficient development, she has automatic favor towards anyones who's useful to her. Aka: Melanie. During the flesh attack, Melanie saved her life. Melanie got Helen as an ally. Melanie helped her research and upkeep of the archives when nobody else was around. And otherwise, has stayed out of her way. Due to Melanie having been useful to her, she sees Melanie as a person on her "good" list. And is willing to excuse Melanie's emotional outbursts, and justifies them. She also has automatic favor towards people who provide her stability: Daisy. Daisy has had her back for likely at least a decade. She's always worked together with her, always helped her, always provided a sense of stability for her to rely on, and was a powerful unstoppable force that Basira found comfort in depending on. Daisy was also someone Basira became extremely trauma bound with, enforcing the fact that Daisy would constantly be relied upon. Because of this, Basira looked past her immoral behavior on the police force. Daisy also earned a spot on her "good" list. However, Jon has ever provided for her in a way where she can have this favor towards him, and if anything goes against the exact things that she values Melanie and Daisy for. Unlike Melanie, Jon has never helped her or been of use to her. He's never saved her, never gotten her in the nick of time, never assisted her in something great, and overall has really never been a person that has been of good use to her. Unlike Basira, he's extremely unreliable. He's messy, jumps into action without thinking, he's self sacrificial in the stupid way, always gets himself into danger, is sloppy with plans, puts himself and others in danger, and is the last person you can rely on as a sturdy boulder. So not only does Jon not possess the qualities she tends to favor people over, but similarly to Melanie she associates him with being put in danger due to him being unhelpful at some of the most dangerous places shes ever found herself in, including the unknowing, the stopping of the "dark ritual". And most other scenarios where she's been put in danger, and needs someone to assist her. That being said, this means that she's not willing to look past anything he does due to lacking in the favor that people like Melanie and Daisy have. This especially works in the opposite of Jons favor when the things that he happens to be making mistakes on, is exactly what Basira values. Justice of the innocent. So when you combine ALL these factors.
Combine her need to be bold, black and white, stubborn and unmoving at all costs [ BASIRA How many. ARCHIVIST - Basira…BASIRA How. many. ] [ BASIRA Enough. ]. [ BASIRA Then we go. Now. Unless, anyone has any objections. ] With her newfound need to be independent, autonomous, self sufficient, self reliant at all costs [ BASIRA No. if he is being controlled, we need to know. And we need to know now. Tell me where she is. ] [ BASIRA Fine, I’ll go, then. I’ll do some recon on my own, and update you. ] And finally, her biases towards those she favors mixing with her strong sense of justice [ BASIRA Why do you think? Because he was ashamed. ] [ BASIRA You’re a danger, John. A monster. You’re hurting innocent people. ARCHIVIST So did Daisy. BASIRA SHUT UP. It’s not the same thing at all. DAISY Basira. He has a point. You didn’t know what you were doing. BASIRA And since you did, you’ve spent every waking hour resisting. He knows exactly what he’s doing. [ BASIRA You don’t get a vote. ]
Now that I've discussed the individual characters and their stances and motives, I want to give my personal review of this scene and it's mostly just. My goodness. Jonathan Sims is scarily good at writing characters. I feel like a lot of writers often don’t go into the messy details of what trauma does to you as a person. A lot of the time characters will go into scarring events and come out only slightly affected. But what's really done so, so well, is the realism put into the coping styles and reactions of each character. They don't react to their trauma in pretty, romanticized ways. Melanie especially depicts this. She has rage outbursts that have ruined her almost all her relationships, she becomes violent out of fear, she reacts irrationally due to defense mechanisms, shes messy and shes vengeful and shes angry and the ways in which she acts in order to protect herself whether its stabbing Jon and other violent outbursts, or a general inability to communicate without thinking the other person has bold intentions to hurt her. She screams at Jon, blames him for all her problems despite him being responsible for dead zero of them, and turns fearful and livid at the sight of him. She's traumatized and it's not depicted in a way that's supposed to get the point across while still preserving love for the character. They aren't afraid to make characters genuinely unlikeable for the sake of realism and it's represented s o well. And she isn't the only character who does this when faced with trauma. Tim becomes bitter towards everyone around him and vents his rage on anyone who comes too close. Martin becomes hateful, spiteful, and self isolating. Basira takes complete domination in order to be in control of situations, and becomes accusatory, cold, selfish, unfair. I could go on and on but there isn't a single characters whose reactions art brutally honest to what anyone would say or do. they are unpleasant and messy and excruciating but they're human, they are unapologetically human. here's a perspective that wasn't so easy to see coming, but it is actually fairly crucial to this entire scene and what exactly it means. Martin.
(PART THREE OF ?? SEE REPLIES)
Martin was the one who took the tape of the bystanders' interaction with Jon, and left it out for the others to see. A silent instruction to intervene. Which. Dear god shows a lot about who he is as a character and just why the lonely is benefitting so much from him. Martin cares about Jon. It's undeniable. Daisy and Basira and Jon and Martin have always worked quite well as foils because as Daisy is Basira source of stability despite Daisy being rather uninvolved, Jon is Martins source of stability, despite Martin purposefully not involving himself. We already know that one of the main reasons Martin is working with Lukas in the first place, was a promise that doing what he's doing is protecting Jon. Everything from his self isolation to his purposeful self sabotage with his peers to every ounce of work he's doing..is really just all for Jon and the promise of his safety. However, despite his care he refuses to get involved. He digs himself in such a deep self sabotage hole that he refuses to even try and do what Jon really needs from him due to being so deep into what he's doing that he can't really turn back. He's so incredibly focused in on his own agenda, that he ends up endangering what he says he values. He's so uninvolved with the happening of things that he sent a tape containing an example of jon acting “evilly”, to the exact people that push him to do so and without considering the danger that may put him in with his coworkers.Martins perspective on this isn't really something you can tell? So it's hard to guess if i did that knowing what would happen and thinking that would be for the best, or did it thinking things would end differently, not realizing what he was doing. is really just all for Jon and the promise of his safety. However, despite his care he refuses to get involved. He digs himself in such a deep self sabotage hole that he refuses to even try and do what Jon really needs from him due to being so deep into what he's doing that he can't really turn back. He's so incredibly focused in on his own agenda, that he ends up endangering what he says he values. He's so uninvolved with the happening of things that he sent a tape containing an example of Jon acting “evilly”, to the exact people that push him to do so and without considering the danger that may put him in with his coworkers. Martin's perspective on this isn't really something you can tell? So it's hard to guess if i did that knowing what would happen and thinking that would be for the best, or did it thinking things would end differently, not realizing what he was doing. Either way, it's very interesting to see just how dedicated Martin is to Peter Lukas’s plans to a point where even the main motivation to what he's doing in the first place becomes something he avoids at every single cost he can, even when attempting to better things. Of course there's a lot about Martin I could talk about, but it wouldn't be relevant to this episode. Instead it's just interesting to focus on the action Martin takes, the inaction he takes, and just why he does these things. Martins. certainly an interesting one right now. I keep trying to decipher his motives by leaving the tape out but it's honestly near impossible to fully know what he was counting on happening or not.
(PART FOUR OF FIVE. SEE REPLIES)
Now when you think about this scene in the context of psychologist "Leon Festinger's" cognitive dissonance, it gets even more interesting. For starting context, cognitive dissonance is when ones belief differs from physical evidence at hand. You may have heard of musical dissonance, when two notes in different keys are played in a rather jarring timeframe, made to make the listeners uncomfortable or shudder. Cognitive Dissonance is just this. When someone's belief doesn't line up with the evidence at hand, it creates a jarring discomfort quite similar. An example used by Festinger (1957) may assist in elucidating the theory. A habitual smoker who learns that smoking is bad for health will experience dissonance because the knowledge that smoking is bad for health is dissonant with the cognition that he continues to smoke. He can reduce the dissonance by changing his behavior, that is, he could stop smoking, which would be consonant with the cognition that smoking is bad for health. Alternatively, the smoker could reduce dissonance by changing his cognition about the effect of smoking on health and believe that smoking does not have a harmful effect on health (eliminating the dissonant cognition). He might look for positive effects of smoking and believe that smoking reduces tension and keeps him from gaining weight (adding consonant cognitions). Or he might believe that the risk to health from smoking is negligible compared with the danger of automobile accidents (reducing the importance of the dissonant cognition). In addition, he might consider the enjoyment he gets from smoking to be a very important part of his life (increasing the importance of consonant cognitions). Cognitive dissonance is seen here, particularly in Basira, very starkly. Basira and Melanie believe Jon is a monster. An inhuman thing that's instinct is to only harm others. She views him as this broken twisted thing that needs to be handled and managed so he doesn't destroy the people around him. However, at the same time she's still wholly devoted to Daisy. She holds no blame towards her, and excuses her every action due to her repressed feelings for her and the loyalty she feels towards her, despite Daisy having done far, far worse than Jon. but despite the hypocrisy, they make her feel safe. They give her stability. Because this way, she has a clear opposing force (Jon), and a clear allied force (Daisy and Melanie) and having that gives her the groundedness she longs for. However, cognitive dissonance comes into play. very quickly with this. For example: the evidence of Jon trying to be better. The fact that Jon does everything in his power to help others, the fact that Jon continuously resists using his power if he can't help it, the fact that Jon has a kind heart, the fact that Jon has worked tirelessly for others, the fact that Jons intentions are never once bad. Basira sees this. Basira sees every. Little bit of this. But she denies. She feels that uncomfortable dissonance between what she believes about Jon and about what's in front of her eyes. So in order to close this gap between belief and evidence, she makes excuses. She convinces herself that Jon is barely trying and that things would be fully better if he actually cared, she convinces herself that Jon is against her and is being manipulative, she convinces herself that he's deliberately doing what he is. All these beliefs that convinces herself of help close that uncomfortable gap between her belief and logic, making that dissonance go away. As Lauren Slater said in her book on Leons Psychology "Opening Skinner's Box": “dissonance is really not about looking at how people change. The theory just didn’t concern itself with that.” Which describes her feelings towards Jon, really quite well. Its doubt of progress. Doubt of character. Doubt of the human ability to change and grow and live. Someone else along with this happens with her relationship with Daisy. Now for this part if we are to take a look at some more excerpts from Lauren Slater's "Opening Skinner's box:” "Did Festinger ever consider how our justifications are to save not only ourselves, but others too? Did he ever consider how lies and love are intertwined?” This part relates. Incredibly directly to Daisy. Basiras Justification of Daisy's past actions, every single time she says "It's not the same" when talked about Jon and Daisys inhumanness, it's out of pure love. She doesn't want to admit to herself that Daisy may be as in the wrong as she is, but she also doesn't want to admit it to Daisy. She cares about Daisy deeply and doesn't want her to have to face that pain of truly seeing what she's done. She lies to herself out of protection of Daisy, and out of preserving her morals. Because Basira wants to be a good person. She needs to be a good person. She needs to stand for the name of justice as a totem, as a symbol. She can't do that if she stood by someone and let them murder countless people, and excuse it, and love that person deeply, and continue to. So she lies to herself. She tries to close the gap in dissonance by justifying Daisy's actions, because god she just needs to. Now, for how Melanie comes into this. It goes without saying that Melanie pretty much also can be directly applied to all of Basiras cognitive dissonance, except for some details. She experiences the same cognitive dissonance as Basira just in an angrier way, with different motives. And it's exactly this that makes the dissonance with Basira and Melanie worse.
“We spend our lives paying attention only to information that is consonant with our beliefs, we surround ourselves with people who will support our beliefs, and we ignore contradictory information that might cause us to question what we have built.” "Soothing can come only if more and more people sign onto the spaceship, so to speak, because if we are all flying this thing together, then surely we must be right.” Companionship. Because if someone believes the same thing as you you can't be crazy. If someone sees what you see then it affirms you, makes you feel like you must be right since you aren't the only one who thinks this. That's what happens with Basira and Melanie. They both experience dissonance, and find companionship in it. They think. "Oh, well I'm not alone in this belief, so I doubt it's wrong." Their beliefs are affirmed, and they strengthen due to this. There's no room to doubt yourself when everyones telling you youre right. Another variable when it comes to companionship, is just how much both of them long for it. Melanie and Basira are in such lonesome, excruciating places in their lives. meaning that the companionship that comes with this common dissonance is strengthened simply by the fact that they both long for allies and for support. “The psychological opposition of irreconcilable ideas (cognitions) held simultaneously by one individual, created a motivating force that would lead, under proper conditions, to the adjustment of one’s belief to fit one’s behavior-instead of changing one’s behavior to fit one’s belief (the sequence conventionally assumed).”
PART FIVE OF FIVE
@@mira.jaebird This was a real treat to read! Very saddening. I do disagree that realism makes the best stories. :)
On the presentation front, there is a whole repeated section in the Martin analysis. I suspect this could do with some paragraph breaks. If you wrote this elsewhere and copypasted into comments, the original formating may have been lost and have to be manually inserted.
I was so excited bc I love Helen and her showing up was like WOOOO then my excitement died bc of the way the crew is treating Jon. Like I understand it, they're scared and they don't understand what's happening to Jon or what he's becoming but they can totally excuse the way Daisy used to behave? C'mon. "I can excuse murder and abuse of power but I draw the line at making people relive their traumatic experiences" THEY'RE BOTH EQUALLY BAD U SHOULDN'T EXCUSE ONE OF THEM BC "they didn't know what they were doing".
Anyways I love Helen she's so quirky and fun ❤
[TAPE CLICKS ON.]
ARCHIVIST
Statement of Marcus McKenzie, regarding a series of unexplored entryways. Original statement given September 1st, 2003. Audio recording by Jonathan Sims, The Archivist. Statement begins.
ARCHIVIST (STATEMENT)
So my dad tells me he’s been bothering you with his nonsense? (sigh) I just wanted to come over and set things straight. Apologize for any of your time that he might have wasted.
He’s… just a lonely old man looking for attention and trying to manipulate me into moving back in with him, even though I’ve told him so many times that that’s just not going to happen. (sigh) The doors thing isn’t even his, you know? That’s what he talked to you about, right? Some magically appearing door.
Yeah, well, he’s just trying to send me a message. Which has been received, loud and clear.
I suppose I do probably owe you some sort of explanation. (big sigh) Right.
I’d been living with my parents… a while. I kept moving out, but it never seemed to stick. First was uni - fine, moving in after a degree is normal. Then there was my divorce, back in ‘93, that landed me back in my old room for a while, then my company went bust about four years ago and wiped out all my savings.
All told, I must have spent most of my twenties, and not a small amount of my thirties, living in that house with my mum and dad.
It was alright, but each time the vibe was worse. My mum was always happy to have me, but she wanted me to move on with my life. But dad was weirdly protective of me, kept trying to keep me around, like he was terrified that the world outside was going to hurt me.
I was - quite depressed, back then, and his attitude put me in a really… weird headspace. I think it comes back to the doors, you know? I think he always secretly thought that I had some deep-seated mental illness, even though they did so many tests, and the doors were the only thing that there ever was - aside from the depression, obviously.
But they were just specific, weird little hallucinations that have long since stopped. Haven’t had one in… well, it’s not important.
But my dad always thought it was a sign of something deeper, something that was - something that was going to destroy me, someday. So whenever I was living at home, he smothered me, tried desperately to keep me around.
Don’t you see? That’s what this whole thing has been about; he’s been so lonely since mum died, and he’s been trying to get me to move back in with him. He’s pretending that he is starting to see the doors. He thinks that if he starts to share in my “madness,” as he always calls it, then I’ll be worried about it; I’ll stick around.
But I’m not mad, and he’s not seeing any doors. I’m sorry he’s so lonely, truly, I am - I try to see him as much as I can, but - I have my own life, and I can’t be there all the time. And I don’t like being manipulated. I don’t like being lied to.
The first door I remember seeing that shouldn’t have been there, must have been when I was five or six. I had a skipping rope, bright green, old and ratty. I made my mum buy it for me at a car boot sale, and I loved it. I could spend hours on the playground, just stood there jumping happily. We weren’t really supposed to bring our own toys to school, but no one stopped me.
It was thicker, heavier, than the ones all the other kids had, a proper rope that needed a good bit of strength to really swing. I was fiercely proud of it.
So one night - it was during the Christmas holidays, so I must have been six - I wake up. There’s a noise in my room, like something being dragged along the floor. Well, I look over, and in the weak orange glow of my nightlight, I can see the heavy wooden handle of my skipping rope moving slowly across the floorboards and out my bedroom door.
I don’t remember panicking. I’m not even sure I was scared, not at that point. But I didn’t like anyone except my friends touching my toys, so I got up and hurried to follow.
I chased it sleepily out of my bedroom and down the hall, past the stairs and towards… a doorway I didn’t recognize. I was sure that when I’d gone to bed, it’d been a patch of wall, with a painting of an old sailboat on it. But now it was an open doorway.
A small amount of light leaked from around the edges of the door through to my parents room behind me. But it didn’t reach very far at all, and beyond the threshold, it was completely dark.
That was when I started to feel scared.
I could see the wooden handle of my skipping rope lying in the corridor, its heavy green cord stretching out and into the door, until it disappeared in the darkness.
I realized I was shaking. I didn’t want to go through that door. So I picked up the handle, and started to gently pull on it, try to drag it back out again. Instead of moving, the line went taut. Something was holding the other end, and it was trying to pull me.
For one, awful moment, I found myself frozen in a tug-of-war with whatever was inside that door, clinging desperately to that rope as it stretched away and vanished into blackness. But I was six, and felt myself starting to lose my footing and fall towards it, so I did the only thing I could: I let go, and I watched my most treasured possession disappear forever as the door closed behind it, and I ran back to bed.
I told my parents, of course, but they didn’t believe me. They just thought I’d lost it, and was making up wild stories to cover it up. The wall was the wall again, and the picture of the old sailing boat was back where it should have been.
The next time, I was eleven, and that time, the door wasn’t really there. Well, it was, but it was - covered in concrete.
It - It was in this old alleyway, about five minutes walk from my house, and one of the buildings was this abandoned warehouse. I - At least I think it was a warehouse. The wooden signs were rotted away, and the windows had all been broken - and the main layer had been covered in a grey layer of perfectly smooth concrete.
I passed it on the way home from school almost every day, and something about that blank, grey space where a door should have been always gave me a shiver of unease.
Then one day I was walking past, and the door that stole my skipping rope was there. The thing was, though, I couldn’t see it, because it was still covered in that concrete, but I knew it was there. Before, there’d been nothing behind it, but now, I was certain; now in the center of the concrete were five clear marks, as though someone had pressed their fingers into the mixture when it had still been wet.
I stood there, staring at it like I had all those years ago. It was playing with me again, but this time, it wasn’t looking to play with a skipping rope. This time, it was a dare. It was daring me to put my own hand on that rough concrete, to fit my fingers into the hollow spaces it had made for me, and open it.
It was a windy afternoon, but for that moment the narrow street where I stood was completely still. I could feel the muscles in my arm tensing, preparing to stretch towards it, to accept the dare from a door that had hidden itself so sneakily under all that concrete.
Then my friend Luke yelled at me from the end of the street. The fear was gone in a second, and I ran to catch up with him. I did, however, make the mistake of telling my parents about it, and reminding them of the other time it had happened when I was six.
This time, they didn’t dismiss it so quickly. First, they checked the alleyway, and took some pictures of the solid, unmarked concrete of the covered entry. Then, they began to make appointments, and sent me to specialists. I was tested and poked and quizzed and prodded all through my teenage years.
I never believed I was delusional, not like that, no matter what my father said, and neither, it seemed, did the doctors - at least, not in any way they could prove. Every test, every examination seemed to reinforce the fact that there was nothing medically unusual about me or my mind.
The only evidence to the contrary was the fact that I - kept seeing the door.
When I was thirteen, it was underneath a railway bridge. It was huge and metal this time, with solid iron bolts sealing it shut and a thick chain stretched across it. The warning stickers had long since scrubbed off, and someone had scrawled in chalk “WARNING: Danger of Death.”
As I passed, something heavy began to bang on the side, sending the chain dancing. It pounded again and again, and I didn’t know if it was trying to force its way out, or politely knocking, hoping to be let in.
When I was fifteen, I pressed the doorbell for Sandra’s house, picking her up for our first date, and I realized that it sounded wrong, like the doorbell was echoing through a hundred empty corridors, bouncing back and forth and lingering in the air. I looked again at their front door, and realized that it didn’t lead to their house.
I heard footsteps approaching on the other side from the far distance, fast and steady, but getting closer. I turned and ran, just as I heard the door open behind me.
When I was sixteen, I was stumbling home drunk from a house party, and I found it lying open in the ground in front of me. It was wide, waiting, and I could see a long corridor stretching down and away, at a right angle to the world as I knew it, turning off into an angular labyrinth.
I was trying so hard to walk carefully, to seem like I wasn’t drunk, that I almost didn’t notice it until it was too late. I stared into it for a long time, my eyes hazy from cheap vodka, and I saw a shape walking calmly along the vertical floor.
When I was eighteen, I was driving a group of friends to a concert in Leeds when we pulled into a service station to get some lunch. They didn’t hear the scream coming from the small stone structure just next to where all the coaches parked. They didn’t see the drag marks that led across the tarmac and under the door.
I didn’t eat lunch that day.
The last time was the worst. It hadn’t happened for almost fifteen years, and when I saw it, I almost wept.
It was when I was living in Oxford, up Cowley Way. A few streets over, there was an empty plot of land, just scrubby plants and junk. If there’d ever been a house there, it was long gone. A few of the older residents said it burned down in the seventies, but they were always… real weird about it. I passed it whenever I was heading down to get a drink at the City Arms.
The last week before I had to move back in with my parents, I was at my lowest point. I was bankrupt in all but name, the work of almost half a decade flushed down the toilet, and all that remained of my worldly possessions were packed up for yet another return to childhood.
And as I passed that empty space of grass, there it was: a pale yellow door, stood all alone, like the entrance to a house that I just couldn’t see. It had no frame around it, but I was sure that if I grasped its handle and twisted, it would still swing open, silent and inviting.
This wasn’t like before; there was no playfulness here, none of that malicious joy that I had always felt coming off it. Now there was just a cold hunger, a deep anger, as though I had no right to just stand there looking at it. The street was silent, but I could feel it screaming at me to open it.
I just about managed to not to. I was just about able to walk away.
I’m… sorry; I didn’t mean to get so deep into my issues. I’m not mad; I know that. It’s just, this door is something else. And my father knows that; it’s why he used it as a cornerstone of his little story, but it’s just - pretend. He just wants me to move back in with him. And I can’t. I just - can’t.
Sometimes you just have to leave. Even if what’s on the other side scares you.
ARCHIVIST
Statement ends. (long sigh)
So it seems we did have Marcus McKenzie’s statement after all. I spent so long looking for it, back when I found his father’s and - (long inhale) - no luck.
But now I decide to start looking properly into Hill Top Road, and all of a sudden I’m drawn to rearrange a filing cabinet, and what do I find behind it?
I never thought I’d miss those days, when I could throw out some half-baked speculation about drug abuse or mental illness and whoosh - away all the statements went.
There is nothing in the world more reassuring than ignorance, which we can mistake for certainty.
But no. Almost every one of those statements, those - people. That poor old man.
Like I can talk. Like I’m in any position to mourn the suffering of the innocent.
But there is one thing I know an awful lot better now, than I did when I read his father’s statement:
I know an awful lot more about doors.
[TAPE CLICKS OFF.]
[EXT. HELEN’S DOOR]
[TAPE CLICKS ON.]
[THE ARCHIVIST BANGS IMPATIENTLY ON HELEN’S DOOR, BREATHS HEAVING, UNTIL HELEN INDEED OPENS IT.]
HELEN
You rang?
[THERE’S A PERSISTENT STATIC IN THE BACKGROUND FROM THE MOMENT THE DOOR OPENS.]
ARCHIVIST
Marcus McKenzie. Why didn’t you tell me?
HELEN
Is that name supposed to mean something to me.
ARCHIVIST
(half laugh, half shudder) No. I suppose it wouldn’t. Just an old man and his son for you to terrorize and feast on.
HELEN
(all business) Oh, well; the son, I was pursuing long before I was even Michael. And technically, I didn’t eat the old man. He passed away from terror long before I got a chance to open properly.
ARCHIVIST
His son Marcus - he - he was fine when I read his father’s statement two years ago, but now, suddenly, I can’t get through to him.
HELEN
No. I imagine not. I decided it was time to finish that game a few months ago.
ARCHIVIST
You - Why?
HELEN
Not sure. I suppose Helen didn’t have quite the same attachment to him as a project. I’m not quite as much for decades-long campaigns of subtle terror these days.
ARCHIVIST
(soft) That’s horrible.
HELEN
Is it? We do what we need to do when it comes to feeding, don’t we? (pointed) Don’t we, Archivist?
ARCHIVIST
Yes.
HELEN
It would be better if you embraced it.
ARCHIVIST
It’s not - Look, why were you trying to lure him into Hill Top Road?
HELEN
That? Oh. Well. That was just curiosity. I wanted to see what would happen.
ARCHIVIST
I don’t understand.
HELEN
There is something wrong with Hill Top Road. You know it as well as I do. Some strange scar on reality at the center of - whatever it is that the Spider is spinning.
When young Mr McKenzie passed, it seemed like a good opportunity for an experiment, to see what would happen if I lured him inside.
But it seems I just don’t have the Web’s gift for manipulation. Persuasion.
ARCHIVIST
Were you controlled?
HELEN
What a delightful thought. (short pause) I don’t believe so, no. But the Spider’s strings are subtle, so I suppose it’s not impossible. Why?
ARCHIVIST
I, I want to know: Can the Web control another avatar, one that serves a different power?
[HELEN BEGINS TO LAUGH.]
ARCHIVIST (CONT’D)
Make them do things they don’t want to, make them -
[HE BREAKS OFF; HELEN IS CLEARLY GETTING TO HIM.]
ARCHIVIST (CONT’D)
- find victims, feed -
[HELEN KEEPS LAUGHING.]
HELEN
Oh, perhaps. Perhaps not. Would that make life easier for you? Are you so sure you didn’t want to?
[THE ARCHIVIST STARTS BREATHING HARDER AND HEAVIER, AS HELEN ERUPTS BACK INTO LAUGHTER. SHE CLOSES THE DOOR BEHIND HER.]
[TAPE CLICKS OFF.]
[INT. MAGNUS INSTITUTE, ARCHIVES, ARCHIVIST’S OFFICE]
[TAPE CLICKS ON.]
ARCHIVIST
Been a while since you’ve all come to see me together. I assume it’s not good news.
DAISY
No.
MELANIE
(spitting) What the hell have you been doing, John?
BASIRA
(cold, cold anger) Martin left a tape for us.
ARCHIVIST
And what exactly is on this t-
[HE CUTS OFF; BASIRA’S PULLED THE TAPE OUT, AND ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, HE KNOWS WHAT’S ON IT.]
ARCHIVIST (CONT’D)
(exhale) Oh.
MELANIE
Yes.
BASIRA
How many?
ARCHIVIST
Basira… I -
BASIRA
How many?
[SHORT PAUSE.]
ARCHIVIST
Four.
MELANIE
Jesus.
BASIRA
Including the one on the boat?
DAISY
What one on the boat?
ARCHIVIST
Including Floyd? Five.
MELANIE
Jesus!
BASIRA
Do I even want to know?
MELANIE
I do.
[THE ARCHIVIST SIGHS.
ARCHIVIST
Jess Tyrell, the woman on the tape - (sigh) - she was the fourth. I - I just tried to - I was weak. R-Ravenous, I,I,I didn’t feel -
The first was a supermarket cleaner, um, ended up lost for a week in an endless warehouse.
[IN THE BACKGROUND, WE HEAR MELANIE SIGH.]
ARCHIVIST (CONT’D)
I didn’t even - I, I just went in for some shopping, and he was there, and I just - asked. (inhale) The second was… it was after I got stabbed by Melanie.
MELANIE
You are not putting this on me -
ARCHIVIST
(overlapping) No, that’s not what I meant. (shaky inhale) I was walking the streets; I - I thought I was trying to clear my head…
DAISY
But you were hunting.
ARCHIVIST
Apparently. I,I found a woman who, every year on her birthday, wakes up in a fresh grave, just for her.
DAISY
And the third was after the coffin.
ARCHIVIST
A man rejected by all who knew him, (inhale) searching ever-darker places for love. When he told me his story, he started weeping maggots.
BASIRA
Enough.
[IN THE BACKGROUND, MELANIE MAKES A DISGUSTED NOISE.]
ARCHIVIST
I hope so.
MELANIE
(exhale) Why didn’t you record them?
BASIRA
Why do you think? Because he was ashamed.
ARCHIVIST
(immediately) No; I-I mean, I don’t record anything anymore, not, not really; I just sort of assume they’ll turn on if it’s important.
BASIRA
Well, they didn’t.
ARCHIVIST
No, I suppose not.
[SILENCE, UNCOMFORTABLE AND TIGHT.]
[MELANIE EVENTUALLY BREAKS IT WITH A SIGH.]
MELANIE
So. What do we do now?
ARCHIVIST
I don’t know.
BASIRA
You’re a danger, John. A monster. You’re hurting innocent people.
ARCHIVIST
So did Daisy.
BASIRA
Shut up. It’s not the same thing at all.
DAISY
Basira. He has a point.
BASIRA
You didn’t know what you were doing.
[DAISY MAKES A PAINED SOUND, AS IF TO CONTRADICT HER, BUT STOPS.]
BASIRA (CONT’D)
And since you did, you’ve spent every waking hour resisting. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
ARCHIVIST
I don’t - It’s not that simple, i-i-it feels- (pause as he finds his words) I don’t know if I can control it; I don’t know if it’s even me doing it.
BASIRA
So you say you’re being controlled.
ARCHIVIST
I-I don’t know. Maybe. Th-The Web, i-
BASIRA
(overlapping) What, What was the name you said before? Annabelle Cane.
ARCHIVIST
…Yes, uh, she’s - she’s been watching us, I’m pretty sure of it.
MELANIE
John, I - I’m not sure that it’s actually the -
BASIRA
(overlapping) No. No, if he is being controlled, we need to know. And we need to know now. Do you know where she is?
ARCHIVIST
(struggling) N-Not - Not properly, I,I - I think she has some connection to Hill Top Road.
BASIRA
Then we go. Now. Unless, anyone has any objections?
[LOTS OF EXHALING AND RUSTLING IN THE BACKGROUND. MELANIE BEGINS TO SAY SOMETHING, BUT -]
ARCHIVIST
Not from me.
BASIRA
(overlapping) You don’t get a vote.
MELANIE
Uh, okay, seriously- I’m going to have to be the one to point out that this is a terrible idea.
BASIRA
(determined inhale) Daisy?
DAISY
Be better if we could prepare.
MELANIE
I-I just think - that - we shouldn’t be exposing ourselves like this until we have a little bit more than a hunch.
ARCHIVIST
She does have a point.
MELANIE
I - didn’t ask you.
[JOHN SIGHS.]
BASIRA
‘Kay fine, I’ll go, then. I’ll do some recon on my own, and update you.
[AS SHE SPEAKS, SHE PUSHES OUT OF HER SEAT AND HEADS FOR THE DOOR.]
MELANIE
Wait, hang on!
DAISY
Basira…
BASIRA
I’ll tell you all what I find. Don’t let him eat anyone’s brain while I’m gone.
ARCHIVIST
(sullen) That’s not what I do.
[BASIRA OPENS THE DOOR.]
MELANIE
B- Basira- Come, come on.
[BASIRA LEAVES, SHUTTING THE DOOR BEHIND HER.]
[MELANIE SIGHS.]
ARCHIVIST
Well, that was…
DAISY AND MELANIE
Shut up.
[PAUSE.]
ARCHIVIST
(half a question, half statement) So, we’re going with her.
DAISY
(sigh) Come on, Mel. I’ll see if I’ve got a stab vest in your size.
[MELANIE PUSHES OUT OF HER SEAT AS SHE TALKS.]
MELANIE
Yeah. Sure.
[TAPE CLICKS OFF.]
Thanks :3
No problem :)
Petra Iván jon being treated like shit by people instead of avatars? ):
also thank youuuuu
What about we just seat down with John and try to help him get through this?
This shit goes since end of season 1 ! Martin was the only one to take care of John and now he's gone! Obviously John is losing himself, he's lost and scared. He needs support.
"There's nothing more reassurance in the world than ignorance" you know is true, but hearing from the avatar of The Eye just hits harder
Man I miss Michael so much
Oof so he actually really did do it... But why are ya'll so mean to jon?? Give him the break and support he needs :((
Basira when Daisy is ACTIVELY KILLING people, framing people for murder and so on:
This is fine.😊
Also Basira when Jon is giving a couple of people nightmares:
You're a MONSTER! 💀
They either all suck real bad or the lonely is working over time to break up the Scooby gang.
The return of the creepy echoing laugh from the door entity.
I was kind of holding on to hope for Basira this long because she's just as distraught and traumatised as everyone else but... oh come on now, why would you do that? Sigh. Is she being controlled by something too, the way Elias kept insisting on calling her Detective? Or is she just putting all the blame on Jon because she needs someone to be guilty...
Honestly the one thing i don't like that much of tma is just how- insufferable characters get at points
Tim didn't deserve to die but it felt like he bitched for two whole seasons for things that weren't jon's fault, and basira is excusing murder just because she knows daisy from a long time
It's not even interestiny to think of their side of the story because they judt become- really annoying, to hear
And that's a shame, basira was amazing in s3, then she just became tim2 even blamed jon for people's dearh even though sje literally ran away from the unkowning. Which jon couldn't, because he had to stop it and save everyone including her, and she blames him for what? For not escaping with her?
Personally I don’t think it’s a flaw, I think it’s very realistic. But it does piss me off
Its crazy how i used to like everyone but Daisy, yet now i can only really stand Jon, Daisy and Martin. Even Martin's hurting me like hell tho. Highkey im just waiting for Jon to give them a proper reason to hate him cause these glass houses are insane rn.
Gonna disagree with a lot of the comments here. Melanie has a lot of baggage to deal with, and has kept her distance ffrom Jon.
Daisy's arc of being a voice of reason and caution continues here.
Basira's the problem, as she has been since the Unknowing, and the others know it. Makes me wonder what the Eye (or maybe the Lonely) is doing to her.