Liliana is definitely a good card BUT i think she lends herself better to a more controlling shell. One where youre more removal heavy than threat heavy. You might wanna consider trying huntsmans redemption as your value 3 drop in the main and move lilis to the side, for the natch ups where she shines. The saga gives you a 3/3 on etb, chapter 2 leta you sac fodder like dreadknight and tutor one of your 4 drop haymakers, and the 3rd chapter gives a pump + trample. Giving trample to a creature with Deathtouch allows you to assign 1 point of damage to the blocker and the rest to the opps face.
I’ll try it out! I don’t think it’s the best, and the line you described is definitely the best case scenario, but it looks fun. Im just worried its floor is too low. I also think Liliana is relatively important in this shell but who knows!
@@SomeNerd970 glissa is so good when the opponent has no interaction. She frequently gets answered before any value is generated. Trespasser is good vs fair decks, but I frequently encounter go wide and mono green, 2 decks where 3 mana for Trespasser seems like a waste of a turn.
Hey, I was thinking about rock, and Elvish archivist got my attention. Maybe with tireless trackers and goose, some Binding of the gods and difrent sagas? Enchantment creatures or something like Spiteful Hexmage?
In match 2 game 1 vs. Rona combo, did your opponent not have the win on their turn 2? I thought Rona + Tyvar + Mox + Helix is infinite mana and infinite self-mill? Kinda confused about how that deck functions.
Love Mosswood. Feels great against Rakdos specifically. Have you thought about testing Huntsman Redemption? I slept on this for a while but found out it’s secretly busted
sick vid! always love to see rock content question bout the sideboard wraths: why exctinction event for the 4? since we dont got damnation obv you gotta pick & choose, but i find cards liek languish or ritual of soot can fight certain boards that extinction couldnt. Any insight on why you went wit extinction?
Anything is possible! I’m not sure if I’ll try it out myself but a jund brew could be worth figuring out (although it’ll likely always be worse than Rakdos)
I don’t think that card is quite powerful enough for our game plan. When compared to sheoldred or QB, it doesn’t seem too attractive. But let me know if you play it and it goes well!
@@DumpsterCat If im being honest Im a rakdos/orzhoz player so im not 100% sure. Glissa seems like an instant 4 of, Lili at one or non, and tresspassr is probably fine at 3 or maybe 2 but I just personally love tresspasser, so I always like jamming extra copies even if i shouldnt. But I usually take my lists from the internet so maybe im not a great source lmao :) love the content though d cat
@@wyattcalcote5867 thanks for the suggestions, Wyatt! Those ideas make a lot of sense, maybe I should be going down on lili just a bit. Your support is much appreciated :)
btw the mono green games were so tilting to even watch, I mean you decayed kiora into event 3 creatures into full value invoke into sheoldred, and he still won (at the point of casting sheoldred 4 cards on hand) - sickening :D ggs though
Misplacedginger thinks misery's shadow is "honestly so bad". He only plays it in BR because of how good it is against mono green, but wishes he could play zero
@@slipperybogle1910 I feel like the context being rb midrange hugely changes the discussion. That deck has very different capabilities in comparison to most gb midrange shells
@@matthewlaxon828 BR midrange has more ways to cheaply interact with the board through bloodtithe and bonecrusher. It can afford to play a creature that doesn't interact. I feel like if this deck wants to play shadow it should be because the mono green matchup is so bad and so prevalent that you need shadows to improve it. Or you build the deck to be more aggressively slanted, both of which I think is totally reasonable. A version just 5-0d playing 13 two drops including shadow and tenacious underdog.
Thanks for starting this great discussion, Gerard! My thinking mostly aligns with @slipperybogle1910 ‘s comments about needing a solid two drop that can scale with the game. Shadow is great versus control and obviously good versus green, but I think I’ve finally come to the conclusion that we need scooze’s life gain and direct graveyard interaction. However, we should always keep shadow on our radar, as it’s quite good versus sacrifice as well. Thanks guys!
You are losing too much life from your own cards sometimes. Try the 4 Phyrexian Fleshgorgers, they will fix that and it is a great creature for your deck. also I think we must find room in the sb for misery shadow just because it is so good against mono green. I have seen how you beat 2 mono green decks in the last video but if you look in the matches they whiffed several times in playing storm the festival which gave us the victory. Given that in competitive environmets mono green is around 17% of the meta (so basically 1 in every 5 matches in a league according to mtg goldfish) and how good shadow is against them, I say it deserves 2 or 3 slots of the sb. I don't think you should cut lily just go to 2 main and 1 or 2 sb even though she is weak right now in many match ups, in slow match ups she is decent. That Abrupt decay is just random, move the Edict in the main and cut decay and you win 1 sb slot. It will be equally good or even better. We still haven't played rakdos midrange, I would love to see how we do against them.
Hey Vardaris, thanks for the suggestions! I actually feel like the life loss isn’t terrible, and we haven’t lost any matches to aggro yet so I’m fairly confident we don’t need a card like fleshgorger. I love the sb shadow plan, this is something I’ve been testing off camera and has been quite nice. About decay, it’s definitely not random. The thinking behind playing a single copy is that it has higher variance than our other removal spells in terms of killing what we want to be killed every time, but it’s versatility far outshines any other doom blade or edict effect.
I like how we discuss mtg in the comment section. I would love to see the shadow sb plan being tested. I am going to play this deck with 4 fleshgorger instead of the 3 tresspassers and 1 lily. I guess it is a matter of preference. As long as you have a plan about decay I am fine with it. I get what you are saying, I think I value more having more slots for silver bullets in the sb compared to decays versatility but as they say in chess (that I used to play in the past) it doesn't matter if you have a wrong/not the best plan as long as you have a plan.
Really nice" I hope golgari midrange becomes a more present deck in the format, since it's my favorite archetype. Thanks for the video!
I hope for the same thing! Your support is much appreciated :)
Stop listening to the net deckers
It's been amazing to witness your persistence to the Rock, know that you have a massive fan base in the Hague. Keep on keeping on!
Hey Thomas, your support is much appreciated! I’m in California, so it’s sweet to see others who have the same interests overseas! :)
@@DumpsterCat❤
Liliana is definitely a good card BUT i think she lends herself better to a more controlling shell. One where youre more removal heavy than threat heavy.
You might wanna consider trying huntsmans redemption as your value 3 drop in the main and move lilis to the side, for the natch ups where she shines.
The saga gives you a 3/3 on etb, chapter 2 leta you sac fodder like dreadknight and tutor one of your 4 drop haymakers, and the 3rd chapter gives a pump + trample.
Giving trample to a creature with Deathtouch allows you to assign 1 point of damage to the blocker and the rest to the opps face.
I’ll try it out! I don’t think it’s the best, and the line you described is definitely the best case scenario, but it looks fun. Im just worried its floor is too low. I also think Liliana is relatively important in this shell but who knows!
I think Huntsmans is outclassed by things like Glissa, a 4th Trespasser, or even a fun-of Old Rutstein for the token generation.
@@SomeNerd970 this is my thinking as well. Maybe I’m a boomer but I find it difficult to shy away from Liliana as well
@@SomeNerd970 glissa is so good when the opponent has no interaction. She frequently gets answered before any value is generated.
Trespasser is good vs fair decks, but I frequently encounter go wide and mono green, 2 decks where 3 mana for Trespasser seems like a waste of a turn.
Hey, I was thinking about rock, and Elvish archivist got my attention. Maybe with tireless trackers and goose, some Binding of the gods and difrent sagas? Enchantment creatures or something like Spiteful Hexmage?
That could be really cool! I’m not sure if that build would be powerful enough but it’s something to look into
Damn, howmi love mtg. Thank u for bring back this archetype
It’s my pleasure, Jorge!
In match 2 game 1 vs. Rona combo, did your opponent not have the win on their turn 2? I thought Rona + Tyvar + Mox + Helix is infinite mana and infinite self-mill? Kinda confused about how that deck functions.
I am knce again advicating for shapers sanctuary in the side to bring in against the "removal tribal" match ups.
Its carried me to great success
Haha alright alright I’ll try out one in the side for the next league :)
Love Mosswood. Feels great against Rakdos specifically. Have you thought about testing Huntsman Redemption? I slept on this for a while but found out it’s secretly busted
I haven’t yet, but a lot of people are suggesting it so I’ll try it out! Honestly I think it’s terrible but who knows!
sick vid! always love to see rock content
question bout the sideboard wraths: why exctinction event for the 4? since we dont got damnation obv you gotta pick & choose, but i find cards liek languish or ritual of soot can fight certain boards that extinction couldnt. Any insight on why you went wit extinction?
He is playing it mainly for mono green
Yup, they’re for mono green! They only play odd mana value creatures that often have die triggers, so event is the perfect wrath against them.
What about jund midrange with the questing druid too?
Anything is possible! I’m not sure if I’ll try it out myself but a jund brew could be worth figuring out (although it’ll likely always be worse than Rakdos)
Have you considered the new BG troll from eldraine as a one of maybe?
I don’t think that card is quite powerful enough for our game plan. When compared to sheoldred or QB, it doesn’t seem too attractive. But let me know if you play it and it goes well!
@@DumpsterCat I agree but good to lnow your opiniom as well!
3 trespasser and 3 glissa seems like wrong. Idk I’m super high or trespasser and really low on liliana.
What numbers would you suggest?
@@DumpsterCat If im being honest Im a rakdos/orzhoz player so im not 100% sure. Glissa seems like an instant 4 of, Lili at one or non, and tresspassr is probably fine at 3 or maybe 2 but I just personally love tresspasser, so I always like jamming extra copies even if i shouldnt. But I usually take my lists from the internet so maybe im not a great source lmao :) love the content though d cat
@@wyattcalcote5867 thanks for the suggestions, Wyatt! Those ideas make a lot of sense, maybe I should be going down on lili just a bit. Your support is much appreciated :)
Have you tried Gifted Aetherborn?
pretty sure in previous integrations they were played but we were kinda clunky being double black
I have, and as SloatheDemon pointed out, the double black mana cost is often too restrictive. I feel like it’s more of a mono black card, if anything
FYI you can activate manlands with powerstone
btw the mono green games were so tilting to even watch, I mean you decayed kiora into event 3 creatures into full value invoke into sheoldred, and he still won (at the point of casting sheoldred 4 cards on hand) - sickening :D ggs though
Yup! I forgot about that during the green matchup, so thanks for reminding me. And yeah, green is just like that sometimes :/
Is ooze really better than misery’s shadow?
In a straight comparison probably a close no, but the life gain seems to be nice for all the “pay life to draw” effects in the deck
Misplacedginger thinks misery's shadow is "honestly so bad". He only plays it in BR because of how good it is against mono green, but wishes he could play zero
@@slipperybogle1910 I feel like the context being rb midrange hugely changes the discussion. That deck has very different capabilities in comparison to most gb midrange shells
@@matthewlaxon828 BR midrange has more ways to cheaply interact with the board through bloodtithe and bonecrusher. It can afford to play a creature that doesn't interact. I feel like if this deck wants to play shadow it should be because the mono green matchup is so bad and so prevalent that you need shadows to improve it. Or you build the deck to be more aggressively slanted, both of which I think is totally reasonable. A version just 5-0d playing 13 two drops including shadow and tenacious underdog.
Thanks for starting this great discussion, Gerard! My thinking mostly aligns with @slipperybogle1910 ‘s comments about needing a solid two drop that can scale with the game. Shadow is great versus control and obviously good versus green, but I think I’ve finally come to the conclusion that we need scooze’s life gain and direct graveyard interaction. However, we should always keep shadow on our radar, as it’s quite good versus sacrifice as well. Thanks guys!
You are losing too much life from your own cards sometimes. Try the 4 Phyrexian Fleshgorgers, they will fix that and it is a great creature for your deck.
also I think we must find room in the sb for misery shadow just because it is so good against mono green. I have seen how you beat 2 mono green decks in the last video but if you look in the matches they whiffed several times in playing storm the festival which gave us the victory. Given that in competitive environmets mono green is around 17% of the meta (so basically 1 in every 5 matches in a league according to mtg goldfish) and how good shadow is against them, I say it deserves 2 or 3 slots of the sb.
I don't think you should cut lily just go to 2 main and 1 or 2 sb even though she is weak right now in many match ups, in slow match ups she is decent.
That Abrupt decay is just random, move the Edict in the main and cut decay and you win 1 sb slot. It will be equally good or even better.
We still haven't played rakdos midrange, I would love to see how we do against them.
Hey Vardaris, thanks for the suggestions!
I actually feel like the life loss isn’t terrible, and we haven’t lost any matches to aggro yet so I’m fairly confident we don’t need a card like fleshgorger.
I love the sb shadow plan, this is something I’ve been testing off camera and has been quite nice.
About decay, it’s definitely not random. The thinking behind playing a single copy is that it has higher variance than our other removal spells in terms of killing what we want to be killed every time, but it’s versatility far outshines any other doom blade or edict effect.
I like how we discuss mtg in the comment section.
I would love to see the shadow sb plan being tested.
I am going to play this deck with 4 fleshgorger instead of the 3 tresspassers and 1 lily. I guess it is a matter of preference.
As long as you have a plan about decay I am fine with it. I get what you are saying, I think I value more having more slots for silver bullets in the sb compared to decays versatility but as they say in chess (that I used to play in the past) it doesn't matter if you have a wrong/not the best plan as long as you have a plan.
@@Vardaris agreed! Thanks for the discussion as always :)