Pathfinder Lore- The Lich Archetype!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2022
- Today we explore the Lich Archetype that released with the Book of the Dead!
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Are you looking to play a lich? Or do you have a good game story with a player becoming a lich? If so, I'd love to hear it!
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I'm playing a half elf Wizard Aprentice of necromancer who have a contract with a devil of Asmodeus and an Demagogue of Zon Kuthon and at the same time plays a spy game inside the Pathfinder's Society.
His master was his father who is a follower of Urgathoa and te brothers of Balthazar , one is a cleric of Desna and the other a fighter with a lot of hate to the family.
Liches: learning about Tar-baphon learning about his life killing ancient dragons raising armies and having to be killed by the god-king Aroden in order to turn into a lich
Also Liches: yeah I'm way better then that guy.
Lich 1: So this tar-baphon fellow.
I heard he needed to kill 2 dragons and be killed by a god to become a lich.
I only had to slaughter a city to become a lich.
Lich 2: You had to slaughter a whole city?
I just had to sacrifice my newborn child.
Lich 3: You guys had to pay?
I just wished to be an invincible lich who's spells always work.
@@malaficus ''Lich 1: *Looks at lich 3, ''you know maybe we should all just share notes next time, I think it'd really streamline the process.''
@@jeffscrungle6179 Lich 2: “ ya maybe we can write a book or something? Give aspiring Liche’s some options how they wanna go about it? You know like those silly Runelords who did all that nonsense to make their ruinwells when I just cast Create Greater Demiplane. I was feeling smart for a second there.”
Yeah, that makes no sense.
I mean wouldn't that just mean your death can't be any boring old death. You have to be slain by a demigod/god so you can be in a similar level as tar?
Interesting! I don't play the TTRPG but I play Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous. Reading up on the lore by watching your videos makes the games even better. 👍
Played the litch mythic path on wrath of the righteous and the sensation of power was amazing, unfortunately i lost my saves before the final battle😭😭😭
*shows up to the BBEG's lair*
"Two can play at this game, your dark lordship!"
Also, i love the emphasis on the ego it takes turn oneself into a lich like "its the ultimate egoistical act" right... Taking the test of the star stone in order to become a deity isn't worse or anything... 🤨
Yea, I believe because Geb personally didn't go for the lich route he tends to look down upon it a bit lol
I am a simple man, I see a good video I hit like and subscribe 😊.
Live long and prosper, best wishes from Serbia.😊😊
Wonderful video as always!
Thank you!
Had a kitsune wizard player in 1e that became a lich. She desired to sit at Charon's right hand, but she was betrayed.
Dang it how am I just now finding this. Thank you sir for the video.
Nice combination of Lore and Mechanics.
Lich Horde!
Thanks, man! That was fun ^^
You know, upon retrospect, it makes sense that the ritual needed to become a lich would be unique. The reason why Read Magic is the most valuable spell ever invented, is because each magic user must discover and create their own personal version of how they cast every spell in their repertoire. Read Magic streamlined this process and made it way easier to learn new spells. So having a unique ritual for becoming a Lich is just keeping things lore accurate.
That was very informative, thank you.
Your very welcome, I'm glad it was!
How the hells did Tar-Baphon turn someone else UNWILLINGLY into a lich? Is he just that powerful and everyone else are like squabbling children over lichdom to him?
Nice, thanks for uploading!
Please don't read this as a negative comment, but I worry on these vids people don't actually give actional feedback to video so the video maker can improve! You get a weird positivity bias in comments where no one tells you where to improve without being seen as mean, but it's precisely because one enjoys watching this that we should give feedback! Not all of this will be relevant for your type of future content, and you might even think some is wrong, but I thought you might at least appreciate someone taking some time to mention things.
(I got midway through writing this then realise the essay-size and stopped, I don't want this to just seem like a page of nit-picking criticism. I did enjoy hearing about the Lich Archetype from you! There is a good amount of video I didn't cover, and I hope you always strive to make more content your audience enjoy. If I have any typos or you're not sure what I mean in a point then please let me know!)
There were a few things here that you may want to consider going forward;
Highlighting with gaps actually made it harder for me to follow, combined with the occasional paraphrasing means the hightlights actually threw me off (following along with a text that doesn't line up with the spoken word is unpleasant!). Additionally, there were some highlight errors where the highlighting was between lines or mis-aligned, such as for the Spell Gem section. Maybe use direct text highlighting in the document instead of drawing boxes? It looks a bit rough when highlights on the same line are height-aligned differently, makes it feel a bit wonky.
Maybe have a friend listen or proof read ahead to make sure you're comfortable with pronouncing some less common words; things like emanation (you pronounced as eman-tation) or archetype (pronounced here as ar-ch-type). This can be tricky (as who knows how to pronounce words without hearing it, plus things like Dyslexia exist!) but it's worth double checking any word of 3 syllables or more with a google.
The varying resolution of images was a bit unpleasant on the eyes; if an image is a lower resolution it's often worth showing them in their native resolution with a background, preserving the pixels-per-screen-space. A smaller sharp image is nicer to look at compared to a full screen blurry one, even if the image size is the same.
Content wise:
A bit of trivia for the soul cage wording over phylactery; it was changed due to the religious connotations of the word, which is entirely fair and respectful. Most tables likely aren't bothered, but Paizo saw the chance to catch something before it caused a problem, which was considerate. This also leads into players, GMs and content creators; Paizo generally prefer people use the latest terms for these, whereas you give soul cage as the alternative. Mentioning that it used to be called something is good, and the reason why is a nice bonus, but you should absolutely strive to match Paizo's wording where you can in cases like this.
Your intro about the motive for Lichdom was a bit odd in giving multiple origin motives but then only mention the fruition of one of these motives. It would flow better perhaps to say "brings their love back to life or gains the knowledge or power they seek". Currently it sounds like you mean "Liches always bring back a lost love", which I imagine was not the intent you had!
Additionally, you mention the impact of undeath on souls initially, then move straight into ego before bringing up souls again a few moments later. Organisationally, try to keeps points together and not interrupt ideas with later ones; in this case, you interrupt the "soul" part with "ego", then interrupt the "ego" discussion to go back to souls and soul cages, seemingly unrelatedly, then ego comes back again later on.
You occasionally get quite prescriptive in the way you describe liches, which blurs the line a bit: are you giving us information about liches according to Pathfinder setting, common folklore or your personal opinions on how they should be? I'm not sure which way I'm supposed to hear it as a listener. As I mention below, Paizo love to leave ideas "open" instead of closed, for example they use phrasing like "Most do it for X, whereas others might secretly do it for Y, or even for reasons unknown..." rather than write "they do it for money and fame". This has helped they keep stereotypes as options while allowing things to act out of the ordinary. For example, they portray certain ancestries as more likely to be violent or polite, but that doesn't mean they can't be the opposite.
"[talking about unique rituals...] every lich would believe they are the strongest lich to ever exist and no one else's ritual will be good enough". This line is odd in a few ways. Firstly, it's describing the person pre-ritual as a lich, which is confusing! Secondly, it implies a pre-ritual lich always thinks existing liches are weaker than they are, despite the fact such people would be taking the ritual to "gain power" in the sense of eternal life, which existing liches already have; "I'm going to become stronger than them because I'm stronger than them!" feels odd. Additionally, the general flavour of liches (hyper-nerd wizards so obsessed with knowledge and power that they want to live forever with an eternal hunger for knowledge for knowledge's sake) Vs your implied view means that a lich believes they are somehow superior, which means a lich who desires to *become* superior doesn't fit the mould. In other words, you've basically ruled out that someone would become a lich to gain superiority. An example where your proposed view would fit weirdly: 2 aggressively competitive wizards trying to outdo each other academically and magically, and one of them, while reading great works from prior wizards, discovers and pursues lichdom to "win". In this case, becoming a lich is an egotistical pursuit of power and advantage, and not a belief of power and advantage; lichdom is simply their "next step" that they would happily copy from a formula book, a means to an end. Also, official Pathfinder 2e published work mentions ideas of getting more time on a goal, or to get revenge, or just because Death scares them, but it *does not specify that they must have this motivation*. If this video is an opinion piece or personal views, then don't hide it! We're hear to listen to you, so don't be afraid to say it's how you prefer to see them, but make it clear what's pop-culture, what's in a rulebook, and what your feelings are.
Minor point; some of the times you describe points in conflict or juxtaposition aren't really in opposition. Examples here; 1) "it is thought rituals are unique for each individual" Vs "I think each is unique due to the ego of an individual" would imply that the ego is separate from the invidual, which is strange to understand (maybe just needs a reword?) 2) describing it as being such egotism as to go against self preservation when, in fact, it is hyper-self-preservation. Ego is all about self-absorbtion, and it's more anti-natural order than anti-self-preservation.
Another minor one, you mention the 1e lich precedent with gold values; are these 2e gold or 1e gold? Their value is definitely changed in the new edition! Also, let listeners know when you move to 2e from 1e, or which edition each book is from, it will help maintain the mental flow a bit. e.g. Is the bestiary mentioned from 1e or 2e?
First, thank you very much for the reply! The length alone shows you put some thought into it, so I appreciate that!
I'll just reply as I go down your comment so I'll answer as I come to each question.
The Highlighting bit, I actually do that all inside Premiere Pro, and It doesn't use the Highlight function from a Pdf reader, so that was all manually done by me, with me stretching the blocks out and placing them. I'm pretty new to that function, so I'll improve it as I go, but I will work on making it more uniform.
Pronunciation is one of my big issues, and I'm trying with that. I have a bit of a country accent so alot of the time I am trying to keep my accent as muted as I can so more people can understand me, and sometimes I trip over my words.
That's actually reassuring to hear, I kind of second guess myself on the image size, and thought full screen was better so I will definetly keep that in mind. That actually makes the visual part of my vids easier, I don't have to just find hd photos.
Content wise:
I will try to add why Paizo has made certain changes in the future, I didn't honestly think about that.
Indeed, I wasn't meaning Lich's do it for love, I was attempting not to be too flowery and making it seem like I was padding the video, and showcase how there can be neutral-ish aligned Lich's, but I can see how that slanted my video a bit.
The description and organization part, that's actually an amazing point I hadn't considered. I'm not an English writer by any stroke, but I will try to brush up on my essay writing skills. I've been out of school for a decade or so and I probably should put some time in to improve my writing.
Part of the issue with this video now that I look at it again is, I read the Book of the Damned and wrote the script from Geb's point of view, like its written in the source book. So, in certain parts, Geb mentions the popular view on a topic, then his interpretation or why the popular view is wrong.
For example, During the part where I mention that each ritual must be different to each person, because they view themselves as superior, thats Geb's point of view on the topic.
Without paraphrasing the book says this
"While most think the ritual to become a lich is different for each person because it must be attuned to their unique body and spirit, I (Geb), would posit a different explanation. The ritual is unique because it is proof of belief in oneself, in the power one has mastered... Each must prove to themself they are the most skilled, the most deserving, the only one worthy of countless lifetimes."
I think that's where I messed up. I did the video without explicitly marking what was my opinion and Geb's so I will probably stray from that type of video in the future. I don't think it would be easy for me personally to keep that kind of thing straight.
And as for the 1e/2e Moment's I will work on marking each. I want to cover all info, from 1e to 2e but I do need to be better about that.
I appreciate the comment, like you said it's good to reflect on feedback so thank you!
I'm not going to lie, I feel like I'm at the point with this channel I need assistance with it. I'm a father to two little girls and I have a full time job, so it is hard to sit down, and put as much time as I wish I could into these videos along with keeping them rolling out at a steady pace.
I'm not gonna Lie, I'd really like to talk to you over on my Discord if you ever have time.
Thank you,
Sir Vertigo!
@@SirVertigo Based on your reply, it sounds like my comments were all reasonable, it's nice to hear it was actually actionable feedback! I won't go back through those things on your reply, as it's pretty clear you got the thought behind each thing. There are some specific tips for the technical stuff (like if you want to "free-hand" vertical or horizontal align highlight boxes with a gap, you could draw other boxes as margins to be sure they line up) but if you are into the habit of chatting on Discord with people it's more appropriate to back-and-forth ideas there Vs fighting youtube's wonderful comment system.
Frankly it's impressive enough when people have time to dedicate to sharing content with others and enriching the community around their hobbies, so for you to be doing so with a pretty full sounding life schedule is already a grand achievement!
Just hopped on the Discord, I don't know what the etiquette is for that place is so I assume I'll just sit there till you make a call to action. Look forward to seeing more from you 🙂
@@SirVertigo Also please don't stray from a video type because of something like this! Little script additions would not just make it easier to follow, but actually immerse me in your mindset and the lore a bit too.
Small example, with you talking about the viewpoint about someone needing to feel important enough: you could give the viewpoint as you have done and then say something like "Notably, this is a viewpoint also held by Geb, the powerful Lich King of the Undead nation...also called Geb." then some offhand comment about how if anyone knows about ego, it's someone who named his nation after himself, and use this as the opportunity to mention he is the perspective from with Book of the Dead is written from.
Clarifies it's a viewpoint, even one held in-universe (adds fun new lore start points for new-to-paizo watchers without being too big on spoiling BotD) that doesn't make new players go "oh, I have to feel that way to be a Lich in the Paizo setting? Or is this just the video maker's PoV?" and instead go "Oh cool, there are different perceptions of how a Lich should be, by players + GMs + even in-universe? And this book isn't just content, it's narrative? That's really cool!".
It's nice to hear a presenters viewpoint, and often a part of what makes a person's videos unique and interesting Vs "I will now spend 20 minutes reading off a wiki page and the pdf"
Dude, chill.....
Has anyone noticed the lich uses the old runescape death. I died, lost all my gear, went to where i died and there was all my stuff. Just waitong for me.
1e had an occult ritual to become a lich called Eternal Apotheosis in Occult Realms
Oh exciting! I'll have to look into that, I didn't know about that one.
There's also welcome the blighted soul to become a siabrae. But, vertigo already did such a video.
At 2:04 you talk about the uniqueness of the ritual. Here you make the assumption that each lich would have to think they are the strongest lich to ever exist.
I think that is objectively wrong. Why would they think that?
Why would my wizard with an IQ of 180, and the ability to reason out a separation of his soul into an object, be stupid enough to assume there is no lich more powerful than himself?
That makes *no* sense to me at all.
This video in particular is from the point of view of Geb the ghost king, so this is how it is phrased and presented in the book of the dead.
But, it is less the thought that I am better than other liches, and more that the types of people drawn to becoming lichens are inherently egotistical and will think they are better than other liches. It's not neccesary to become a lich, it's just just people who become liches think that.
Eh I really wish you would have gone into more 1e lore and mechanics in addition to the 2e mechanics/lore.