I think she has the capacity to be such an interesting character but they aren't really doing anything with her. I wish we got a Claire episode where we could see more about her life and her flaws. I think one thing they could expand on is that she's an ER resident and how that's similar to Carmy's job. She is probably working 60-80 hours a week and in an incredibly fast paced and chaotic environment and she seems to love it. That's something she could relate to Carmy on and they could give her more personality
that's a great point and i completely forgot to point that out as well! their careers are very similar in that way and i think that's something that should've been touched on as their dynamic definitely could've been affected by that
No. This is how shows get convoluted. The main characters are the focus. Side characters are there to give motive and push the story along. That’s it. That’s why the show is so tight.they focus on the main characters
@@iDewThis4Yu who is and isn't main is up to the writers. Someone else pointed out that they'd be best not to wait any longer at expanding Carmy's character arc (i.e., he hasn't changed that much since episode 1. Seeing how the show clearly hasn't forgotten about Clair, pulling her in more could be a prime opportunity for them to grow Carmy more. Otherwise, him screwing up with Clair has only made him more himself...but if that's the route they wanna take then that's fine too.
I always think they shoot Claire like a dead wife from a cop film. Totally idealised I do think a Claire episode would be good. Even showing her finding it hard to be the manic pixie dream girl, having to pep herself up into being the perfect girlfriend.
No but an ep dedicated to her day would be so interesting. Like we see a hard day at the ER. For Claire, at her job everything is so important, young female residents aren’t taken seriously in their profession, and a single mistake can cost someone their life. Maybe we could see how Carmy and his problems are an escape for her too.
This.is.it!!! They literally treat her like old family footage of the cop who's drinking his way through grief over his dead wife! Like she's not an actual person. In season 2 and 3, they spent 80% of the show talking about but she was never actually around. She feels like a shared fever dream. Completely romanticized. I just can't root for this made up relationship
@@msandrews87 personally I think the showrunners are very lazy and indecisive. They want Claire and Carmy but they are unwilling to flesh out her character (and honestly with how much people dislike her already, its either too late to redeem her character, or they'll have to put in extra effort). And on the other hand, they want a platonic relationship with Sydney, yet she and Carmy have the most chemistry and are framed in a way that makes them the most realistic for a potential romance. They need to make up their minds. Mostly so I'll know if I should totally give up on this show because I don't like Claire either, esp right now, and I don't like how they keep stringing Sydney along for more and playing games with the viewers.
I absolutely can't stand Claire because she reminds me of every badly written fanfiction I read when I was 13. "Omg, Y/N? She's so awesome..." "I'm going to call Y/N, she knows how to handle this!" Even the scene where Carmy is stuck in the walk-in makes me cringe. She listens to him rant about their relationship being a waste of time and walks off as the center of attention while somehow remaining angelic and kind to everyone, thanking Richie for the evening. "What did you say to Y/N?? You made her cry!" It would be interesting if this perfect person was something Claire tried to portray. Instead she just IS that person. She needs an additional dimension because she's completely flat.
i think the show showing claire as this perfect character is intentional, because that's how carmy sees her. i think all of you claire haters are too harsh on her, literally in no scene was she annoying
@@farahhesham7130 I was just on my phone and saw the notification, so I'll reply right away :D I think her being annoying is very subjective and that's just how a lot of people who watched the show felt about her. It probably stems from the fact that the majority of the characters are constantly raving about how saintly and great a character is that you yourself barely know, so it becomes tiresome. I fully understand that she's written as a tool to further Carmen's story line, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it. It feels like the storytelling has regressed in quality. It's lazy. And for a character that's supposed to be a catalyst for another character (Carmen), she took up way too much screentime. There are only so many ways in which you can express "This man has personal issues that destroy (romantic) relationships and lead to (self) destructive behavior" before it becomes extremely boring and repetitive. She served her purpose and now her character has to either be fleshed out or cut out. Not to mention that there is actually so much potential to be explored in her character. Why was she pursuing Carmen so strongly when he basically rejected her? How come she works as a doctor but always finds the time to listen to Carmen and his problems? (Is she keeping her own issues bottled up because she doesn't want to burden anyone?) What was her endgoal in the relationship? I think it's fine if you're okay with her character the way she is but I personally dislike her character because I want to KNOW her. The same way we have received backstories and intimate storylines for almost every side character. And with how much screentime she took up in season 2 and honestly also season 3 I think it's criminal that they gave her the personality of a dead fish.
@@cappuccinobean2442Ironic, that sounds like a reason why the family makes fun of Pete. Because hes shown to be very patient, kind, a little nerdy, and understanding. Which is probably why Nat loved him. Too perfect for the family to give credit for
@@wymg4480 yes, i thought this as well. Cause Pete seems like a genuinely good guy. But the main difference between him and Claire is Pete doesn't feel like a "perfect" character. He's shown almost as much as Claire, yet we understand him a lot more. Pete seems like someone who wants family, he's a tad insecure but he's also a sweetheart so he tries to make people like him by being himself. He's overly optimistic, to his own detriment at times, but he doesn't seem like a clueless person. He knows what the others think of him, but he feels like the type of person whose mantra is 'kill them with kindness', he just cannot be anything else. Overall, his character is very realistic, I know someone exactly like this as I am sure most people do. All this can be said about Pete without once mentioning Sugar, however, I cannot say the same for Claire without involving Carmy. Her entire character revolves around him, she isn't fully fleshed out and tbh the parts we do see of her isn't even enough to be considered interesting by most people. she's just a bland, boring dream of Carmy's.
I think the main problem is we’ve never seen her, OUTSIDE of when she’s with Carmy, we’ve gotten no content of her doing anything other than being Carmy’s Girlfriend.
That’s literally her character, Camrys girlfriend. The show is about “the bear” she’s not part of the restaurant. She doesn’t matter. That’s the point of her character. I think we might know just as much as Carmy. She’s a nothing character because that’s the narrative. She doesn’t matter to Carmy. He wants her to, but she doesn’t matter.
@@00pium_kingvampstan i agree! even if it was just one scene showing her having an interest outside of carmy, that would’ve been nice. every scene she has she’s somehow serving someone else in a way (whether it be with carmy or even with her friend kelly), we never see simply enjoy herself without having to help someone else. thank you for the comment!
@@d1g1cxlt_ i also agree with this! us knowing just as much as carmy makes a lot of sense. he wants a relationship so badly, but is simply just incapable of being there emotionally and physically (meaning just spending time with her), resulting in him knowing very little about her. thank you for the comment!
i think it’s totally on purpose how claire is written and not a result of “bad writing”. we have to contextualize in order to get the big picture of what her role is in the show. they are high school sweethearts, a time in your life that romantic partners tend to be idealized. when you have a crush at a young age you usually only see superficial characteristics and don’t really know the person deeply. if it doesn’t evolve into anything more, they become a fond memory, the same way you usually remember the good parts about a deceased loved one. when claire and carmy meet again as grown ups they still see themselves as those idealized versions. as much as carmy sees claire as perfect, she also has this fantasy of who he is. we only see claire through carmy’s eyes, including when his family talks about her. and he is reluctant to perdue a relationship because to him she is perfect and he is not (throughout every season we see how insecure he is and how he’s constantly trying to prove his worth to the people around him, that nasty boss he had, his family. he has constantly been put down and despite doing the most it never seems to be enough). claire might know his family but she doesn’t know that side of him. i think she puts up with a lot of his stunts because he is also a dream to her, the boy she liked in high school. also, that sequence when carmy is having anxiety and claire pops up between his family makes him even more anxious because she is “perfect” and is a constant reminder that he is not (all he hears and sees is how perfect she is. just as it annoys the audience it rattles him to, MPDGs annoy people because they are walking reminders that we will never be as perfect, quirky, and loveable as they are). i personally liked scenes with claire because they were a breath of fresh air in the turmoil and caos that is the show, calming and warm. that’s how carmy sees those moments too in his chaotic life. i think it would be interesting to see her perspective and life in an episode, she might see carmy in the same light too. but when he says all those things in the freezer that idealized version of him is shattered, a side of him she didn’t know comes to light. syd’s dynamic with carmy sort of begins that way too, she looks up to him as a chef but when she starts working with him she sees how troubled he actually is. that also goes for a lot of other character dynamics in the show, that idealization of outsiders that fuels the insecurities of the characters we know (how richie sees frank, how the family sees pete. these “superficial” characters remind them of all their flaws) quite the tangent i went on but that’s my take on it and i think if you apply that concept while watching it really highlights the shows good portrayals of perfectionism and complexities of social dynamics. it’s a great show, and it still has flaws but that’s exactly what it’s trying to talk about
This video is what I call a good commentary video, from the title to the pacing of the video, Now THIS is what I want to see more of on youtube. Also, i've always liked Claire and never understood the hate for her but when you said that we're only viewing her through Carmy's eyes, the dots connected and it all just made sense. Great video.
@@FlashLegion wow thank you so much! since this was an old school project, i wrote it as a literal essay first, which is the best process for me when it comes to organizing my thoughts. and yes! when i was researching and found that quote from the creator saying we’re seeing her through carmy’s eyes, it all clicked into place for me. thank you for the comment!
Great video. I do believe the intention was that claire is supposed to be a symbol more than a actually character. Like a sign of normalcy but i honestly it would be so much more in her favor if she was actually more than one dimensional. It would make people like claire more so we would better understand why everyone fawns over her. It can kinda be frustrating constantly being told and not ever shown.
@@Mr.Murasakino exactly! being told how great she is, but never seeing it was kind of frustrating. especially since when it comes to any other character and their traits, we don’t have to be explicitly told what their personalities are, we see who everyone is over and over again through their actions. thank you for the comment!
I don't think people would care so much about Claire's underdeveloped character if they hadn't made a point to give so much development to characters with even less screentime than her. We had a whole Christmas episode with Carmen's entire family and I feel like I know them better than her. That's weird... unless that's entirely the point. We don't know her cause Carmy doesn't know her.
that's exactly what i was going for! i think we genuinely know as much about her as carmy does. granted, i don't think carmy is intentionally not trying to learn more about her, i just think he's just got too much going on honestly (which isn't an excuse, but i do think he needs more growth). thank you for the comment!
I love when people say that last line because YES! Carmy DOESN'T KNOW HER, and quick note we feel like we know Sydney because he feels like he knows Sydney.
Ok, so I've watched the show, and maybe I'm interpreting things wrong, but when Carmy and Syd meet, it's like one of those real "meet-cute" kind of things, was I seeing things when I thought that?, I don't know, so when Claire comes on the scene, I'm not surprised an old flame is back in the picture, but then I got the feeling the show runners were really wanted that to be the real relationship, but it feels fake to me. Syd and Carmy are messy, but they are real, and they communicate (well, except for the elephant in the room), but the really try to grow and improve each other. If it ends up that the show runners only want their relationship to just be "good friends" I'm all for that, I hate the idea that people with a connection always "have" to end up together romantically, but secretly I do want it, lol
There was a massive uptick in sydcarmy shippers after Claire was introduced and I don't think it was a coincidence. especially because the anxiety attack scene was interpreted by so many people as this "Sydney br8ngs him back" type of situation. it happened again in season 3 as well where he was stressing and only Sydney's voice cut through the noise in his heads and again (this time inverted kind of) where he and Sydney are talking after hours and there is this peaceful piano music playing but then this soft rock song (I think) starts playing and mixing with the calm music, slowly overcoming it when he's thinking of calling Claire. this could be the specifics of apologizing to Claire may make him anxious, but he's done worse to people in the kitchen and apologized much more quickly.
I call her the Snarky Pixie Dream Girl. Love her character. I suspect more complexity is coming, but if not ... well ... right now her story is just an extension of Carmy's story and that's just fine. You nailed it.
I kinda think her underutilization adds to the very one sided narrative the show gives us Carmy Sees her more as an escape rather than a real individual who could be just as flawed as any of the other characters she’s not given room to be complex because narratively and in Carmys mind she is perfect and exist as a symbol of being “good” in this very hectic, stressful and morally complex story I think her career also plays a role into how we the audience (and carmy) view her she’s a good person and is often praised by carmys family as such but she’s most likely extremely stressed by her job and is just trying to be ok like everyone else in the story but we don’t get to see it because no one is willing to look past her perceived perfection and we (and carmy) often grow irritated or feel inferior too this false idea of her
I really liked your take on her character! Really hope we get to see more of the real her next season, not as Carmy's gf per se, because he still has a long way to go, but to give her story (and this chapter of his life that was their relationship) some closure Just subscribed to your channel! Cant wait to see more of you content also ✨️
I wish we got more Claire but I also don't think she was ever meant to be an actual character. I agree with the "Claire is written like a plot device for the main character" idea. It's not good writing to make a 2D character that's purpose is to show the main characters flaws, I hate when shows do that, especially ofc when it's supposed to be a love interest, because I personally couldn't feel any chemistry or connection between the two characters in season 2, and that's probably because she didn't feel like a character.
i love comparing the interactions carmy has with claire (stunted, staggered, and not saying much at all) vs. carmy with the rest of the bear, particularly syd (much more animated, finishing each other's sentences, wearing his heart on his sleeve). i choose to believe that the writers intentionally wrote claire with an ideal, perfect personality to emphasize just how self-destructive carmy can be, that even when all the external circumstances are perfect for him, he still sabotages himself out of punishment and self-loathing. imo claire was never written to be a viable love interest to carmy, but rather as a 2D storytelling device to highlight the nuances of carmy's grief and mental health (because i refuse to believe that writers that can write such complex female characters like syd and nat can "accidentally" write a female character as reductive as claire). amazing analysis and can't wait for s4 to expand on this idea like you said!
Great essay! I agree with a lot of the criticisms people have that Claire is an under-developed character, but that said I can’t understand why certain fans seem to loathe her. I always found her to be likable and genuine but never thought she came off as annoyingly cutesy or anything. But in essence she kind of is a MPDG. I really wish the writers had fleshed her out as a person more this season but we literally only get one scene at the hospital and it doesn’t even involve Carmy. Will they even bring her back next season?
@@dollarsaurus01 i agree! i can understand maybe not enjoying her, but the hatred she gets never made sense. i do think it’s partially because of sydcarmy (which i’m not a shipper of, i just don’t think it makes sense), so i think a lot of it just comes from her “interfering” with them even though there’s not much to interfere with, in my opinion. thank you for the comment!
Absolutely agreed with everything you said in the video. I always figured we see Claire as this symbol for escapism from his professional life. The show as a whole and Carmy always reminded me of the movie Whiplash. The mc in that movie ends up choosing ambition over personal connection and the ending leads to literally glorifying abuse. I do not like when arts glorify violence at all. We see this same ideas tackled into Bear too. So far the show seems hyper aware of what it is doing and I would absolutely hate it if it ended up being like Whiplash. I just wish Claire has more of a soul to her character in later seasons. Season 3 barely did anything to expand on her role and as a thematic device to Carmy's arc. I hope for the best with Bear. Because all in all, the show has the potential to be one of the greatest and it would hurt to see it not happen
i 100% also get whiplash vibes from the bear at times and although i do think it's intentional, i agree with you when it comes to hoping they don't forget the original intention. the show has so much potential to be one of the greats, so i'm also hoping the characters are written in the right direction
Don’t agree with that assessment at all, Whiplash does not glorify abuse and violence. It’s a cautionary tale about abusive workplaces and you’re supposed to feel troubled by the end of the film seeing what it costs him to be great. The shot of his dad watching him on stage in shock is intended to mirror the audience. Depiction is not endorsement
@@dollarsaurus01 That's attaching your own opinion to the movie. It's what Andrew wanted. Whatever you feel about if it's right or wrong doesn't matter. The movie pretty obviously says what Andrew wants in that dinner table scene and Fletcher gave him that. Whether you agree or disagree if it was worth it is up to you but the movie doesn't take a clear stance
@@dollarsaurus01 It's problematic when the mc himself literally seeks this toxic validation from this piece of shit. The final shot literally shows that him choosing this path is him choosing the right path(in his opinion). It's one way to say that art doesn't promote abuse, but when it so obviously on the nose that Andrew chooses to do so when he is the mc. To be the depiction, you need to present a dichotomoy/critique through the characters. Not once, Andrew is made realise or told verbally/symbolically that his path towards greatness is wrong. Idk how you can see it not glorifying. Also, Andrew is kind of a piece of shit. Because of people like Fletcher, cycles of abuse perpetuates in the workplace and Andrew literally wants to seek his validation so badly wanting him as a mentor. How is it not obvious lol
I don't think it glorifies it so much as offers a very realistic depiction of what it's like being groomed and trapped in an abusive relationship of any kind. Most take several attempts to fully cut ties with their abusers.
As someone who has been a Claire to a Carmy, Claire's behaviour don't seem healthy to me. They stem from deep codependency "I can fix him" issues, and that could have been an interesting plot line. She is in the healthcare industry as well, and they could have at least given us some insight into her psyche as well. Her being excessively empathetic and understanding, even to the point where she says that you never have to say sorry, is also not a healthy boundary. Claire could have been so much more as a character, I would have loved to see her backstory. But right now she is just a plot device.
@@ananyapurkayastha2942 i 1,000% agree! her boundaries being virtually nonexistent is incredibly unhealthy and definitely gives off “i can fix him.” having this deep empathy and understanding for your partner to the point where they’re not being held accountable for anything really feeds into that. this was a really interesting perspective to hear from so thank you for commenting!
@@nia907 When people talk about how perfect and one dimensional she is, I think this is what they are missing. She had a major flaw. As you mentioned in the video, the way she has been portrayed has been the way Carmy sees her. She is an idealized version of what she actually is and that is someone that will forgive anything. He pretends not to remember her. He lies to her. He treats her terribly. This does not sway her, not because she is perfect but because she is obsessed with Carmy. I don't think this comes from nowhere. She is, to my knowledge, the only character to have a musical leitmotif. Several times in Season 2, and prominently in the marketing, we hear R.E.M's Strange Currencies playing. Every single piece of music in The Bear is intentional and extremely well chosen. This is probably the most impactful, not only because of the way it is used, but also because it is repeated. Read the lyrics of Strange Currencies, it starts, "I don't know why you're mean to me when I call on the telephone. And I don't know what you mean to me but..." and goes on to later say "I need a word, a signal, nod, a little breath, just to fool myself, to catch myself, and make it real." The song isn't from Carmy's perspective. It is from hers. For some context, each song on the album it is on is about an unhealthy all-consuming obsession with examples being money, power, sex, jealousy, being cool and, yes, even the love song. The album was called Monster and the cover art is a distorted picture of a bear. The song was absolutely the perfect choice to drive this home. Everyone has a monster, Carmy (her obsession) is hers.
@@PizzaRedemption i feel like you should be making video essays on the bear, not me! that was a great comment! and i completely agree. to be honest, i never really focused on the music before, but it makes sense since i feel like sound in general is such a prominent driving force for the show (ie. shouting, typical kitchen noises like pots, pans, knives, etc etc).
Thank you! You definitely should give the show another watch and focus on the music. The songs add a lot to the theme and tone of each episode. The lyrics are very often completely on point and it shows just how much thought was put into each selection and the mood of the episode they are featured in. The Bear is a very well-produced show on pretty much every level. There are things I missed on first watch that I caught on my second that increased my already already very high opinion of the show.
Idk man, we only see Tina's husband once, barely see Sydney's dad and Ricky's ex, I think she gets little screen time simple because she's just a minor character
i agree! she’s a side character that i think, because of what her role was going to be (aka carmy’s girlfriend), i just expected her to have a bit more personality. especially since she’s a family friend, i thought she’d be able to get a deeper story with them since they go way back. granted the other characters you mention also have a deep history with the main characters, but because this was going to be such a new experience for carmy (having a romantic relationship), i thought they’d highlight her just a little more. thank you for the comment!
@@ione97 i definitely agree with this! he’s not in the right headspace for it, making him both emotionally unavailable and physically unavailable since he’s so busy with the restaurant. if i wanted to even stretch it further, i could say maybe they’re trying to show a reason for why syd and carmy also wouldn’t work (not sydcarmy shipper, just theorizing)
Wait, how do we know that Carmy doesn’t have that capacity though? Maybe Claire just isn’t the one for him and that’s why things are playing out the way they are thus far.
@@Keesha_Hardy oh you make a great point! for me, i guess i’m still thinking of everything we’ve seen happen in his life so far (leaving an incredibly toxic culinary environment, rebuilding and rebranding an entire restaurant, all while dealing with open wounds from family stuff aka michael) and was wondering if he was at a point where he could let someone in on that level. but you’re not wrong - i do also think that claire just might not be the one for him and could find someone else that fits him better!
I agree that Claire is a concept that ties Carmy to his past. His relationship with her is him, in a sense, trying to rewrite his past. I think this is why she doesn’t have a back story, because she is his past and not his future. She’s just a plot device not a fully formed person.
Please continue in film studies, we could use someone like you to direct or write something that we can watch and enjoy without having insane tropes one day. All the best luck, nice video essay!
came into this a bit on the fence of where you were going with describing her characterization as someone who finds the character a bit annoying, but by the end i am in complete agreement with you. claire serves a purpose, but as of now her only purpose is to serve carmy, she only exists to us through him, and never outside of that. i dont believe she deserves unwarranted amounts of hate, but its frustrating to see a character so one dimensional in a show where everyone else is 3D. beautiful essay, also!
@@ssjack2 thank you so much, i’m glad that you heard me out! i 100% agree that it’s really jarring to have such a 1d character in a show like this but i always felt that just made her inclusion even more intentional.
i think she doesn't need dimensionality because she never struck me as interesting or in need of it. like you said, the purpose of her character is to serve as a catalyst for carmy's character development. accordingly, she's given limited screentime and never came off as overbearing.
@@chihun3981 Except for the beginning of one of the episodes in S3 where she just keeps talking and talking. I left the room, made myself a bowl of cereal, returned to the living room and she was STILL telling Carmy a story. My god, I wanted to yell shut up at the screen lol
@@chihun3981 i see your perspective on that, definitely! i think her flatness as a character is the overbearing part of it, and their (writers) insistence on keeping it flat and uninteresting in such a fast paced, chaotic, personality-filled show is overbearing to viewers like me, where all of the things i listed are what makes the show attractive in the first place. i also hate the idea of a woman’s whole characterization revolving around a man in any piece of media 😭
I think there is nothing wrong with manic pixie dream girl archetype in story. There is no doubt that it's very common for boys/men dream about their ideal love sweetheart & MPDG is practically almost every first or their best young love. Exactly like how ever woman/girls always dream about about their ideal men like a chad loving big bad boy... I am just saying. It's rather weird that almost EVERY women centric romance story/movies/shows are always have such ideal men stereotypes but there is practically zero conversation about it.
I wonder what's the opposite trope? There are some cases of a manic pixie dream boy (The Fault in Our Stars, Titanic), but that's not the most popular one. Then of course you've got some seriously toxic archetypes, such as the hot manipulative stalker and the third-wheeling nice guy duo found in pretty much every YA novel with a female protagonist.
Men didn't create MPDG's as a fantasy. Women did. They only appear in movies with overwhelmingly female audiences. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World had a definitive MPDG. Written by a woman. The MPDG can be found as far back as Jane Austen. It's a female fantasy of being this perfect girl who whirlwinds into a man's life and changes his whole world. female writers write males as a Prince, a Prop and a Problem. The Prince is Prince is Prince Charming, simply there to love her; the prop is a sexually non-threatening male like a father figure or a boy or a gay friend to show how sweet she is; and the Problem is the Bad Boy that she needs to get away from to find the man she deserves.
@@luvulots18 omg thank you so much! i’m literally on my, like, 4th rewatch right now. and i’m definitely tempted to think of something i could talk about relating to doctor who but i’m not sure what at the moment! but thank you again for the comment, alyssa :)
Thank you for this video! I don't hate Claire, I actually liked her relationship with Carmen in S2 since I knew they will use it to show us how self-destructive Carmen could be. BUT I also found myself rolling my eyes and feeling uncomfortable every time she was on screen. I figured it was due to this MPDG aura she had going on. She is a doctor, who has all the time of the world to be there for Carmen and deal with his bs?!! A DOCTOR??!!!! She doesn't seem to really have a life out of being Carmen's dream girl. Carmen basically told her she was a waste of his time and she just went out with "grace" and a kiss??? BEAT UP THAT MF, CLAIRE! (jk) What pisses me off a little about all this is that they could have show us how broken Carmen is without using the MPDG trope. Just show a decent human being that has her life and struggles but is still more healthy than Carmen's entire family... it's not really that hard with that specific family yk...
i agree with you on pretty much all counts but i just have to say the inclusions of clips from "paper towns" got a laugh from me because of john green's entire intent behind it being that he mc whose name i can't even remember was idealizing margo and didn't even really know her
I was never bothered by Claire, but I do hope we get to see more layers of her character in the next season. I really like the actor and want to see her have more to do as this character.
just to defend some sydcarmy shippers, I'm a loose fan (if somehow they get together, cool, but I watch the show for the family aspect) and I didn't like Claire in the first place. I didn't even entertain the idea Sydney and Carmy as a potential relationship until like 2 months after I watched season 2, so I don't think it's the most unbiased thing to immediately jump to shipping on why people don't like her. My biggest problem was the very out-of-nowhere nature of her showing up.
hmmm first of all I'd like to say that I STILL don't understand why people hate Claire. I loved her when she showed up. also i don't think she showed out of nowhere, the first season was introducing us to the idea of the bear and to carmy and it was a short season, i don't think they could've introduced her in the first season
@@farahhesham7130 it's like they wanted us to care about her as soon as she showed up. At first I thought "did I miss her introduction? Did I miss a scene?" But we're supposed to immediately believe she's this girl carmy had heart eyes for a decade ago and she just fully liked him back the same amount. It just wasn't a choice that worked for me.
my mom dislikes the idea of syd and carmy together and sees them as strictly platonic, and she HATED Claire lol so i don’t think it has to do with shipping
@@joselocalau123 yeah I think it's a big conflation to say sydcarmy shippers are Claire antis because they don't want her with carmy. A lot of people simply just don't like her or are apathetic.
i mean the problem is as a woman i see myself not only with my issues i see it with the male gaze and the male gender's problems. this is the thing that made me ''pick me, it girl, cool girl, pixie girl'' in the first place. because if i want to survive in this world i need to see myself and understand myself with the understanding of male gender. and sometimes, most of the times you become that shell that protects you from men. And your story start to fade and now you are the someone's version
@@So-tf1dz you’re not wrong lol. since she’s only being used as a plot device and only really there to show carmy just how not ready he is to be in a relationship, i feel like her time does probably need to come to an end soon
Yeah, at this point, with the fact that Carmy hasn’t talked to her the whole season 3, I just don’t see why the show runner(s) would put them back together S4 (I hope that’s not their plan). I don’t feel invested in Claire as a character because she has no established character arc, and she just feels like an outsider, only really here to be Carmy’s love interest, as she has not interacted with any other characters much, outside of Carmy, of course, & the Fak brothers. Pete (Nat’s husband) and Tiffany (Richie’s ex), for instance, both have, while small, established arcs (Pete: to be accepted by the family, namely Richie & Cicero; Tiffany: to marry Frank & continue navigating co-parenting with Richie). They have also both been shown to have interacted with much of the family.
I don't see anything compelling about Claire. Someone said they show her like they would a deceased gf/wife, and I agree. She has no umph, no spark that makes me want to know more about her. I don't know if that is because of the writing, the actress, or what. Claire is a basic character that gets applauded for it 🤷♀️. The other characters are so invested and keep acting like Claire is the best thing since sliced bread, but we are never shown that. They had two seasons to show us and did nothing. One of my biggest gripes is how they said this wasn't a show about romance (something along those lines), but then turned around and shoved Claire in for Carmy, who in my opinion, doesn't need to be with anyone and I think it would be way more compelling to see him make attempts at working through his trauma, not pining over someone he gave the wrong number to.
And you know what's funny? The same people who used that as a way to drag Sydcarmy fans are jumping at defending Claire and their "Relationship" It's ironic in a fustratingly funny way.
Because Pete is a compelling character that you want to know something about? Women are upset about Claire because she isn't awful. Every other female character is flawed and crappy and would be a terrible romantic partner which is why female viewers like them but not Claire.
@@thomasolson1154 Yeah you are SO wrong and projecting. VIEWERS don't like Claire because she is UNREALISTIC and a doormat for Carmy. In fact people hate how she's written and not her necissarily. If you actually cared to listen to views that don't suit your agenda, you would come to understand that. Her and Carmy are toxic, he is constantly confused about her and she just takes it. It's so wrong.
@@kimberleywilliams7802 I'm projecting 😆😆 Viewers? You mean women, because it isn't men who have an issue with the character. AS FOR Realistic and doormat 😅😅 Punching Bag Pete who never looses that stupid smile even when his wife is berating him, her family are constantly belittling him he doesn't get upset. When his wife decided to quit her job and just live on his income there wasn't even a discussion. SO your "agenda" that all women should be complicated three dimensional characters who would make terrible romantic partners is keeping you from seeing that Pete is far worse than Claire but you don't see an issue with a man being treated like crap.
@@FredrikSkievan coz in season 2 last 2 episodes were absolute bamgers! I saw forks then fishes and the last one in which carmy ends up in a fridge were awesome. So i m hoping that more awesomer episodes are ahead of me!
what pissed me off about Claire is that she puts up with Carmy’s bullshit in a way no living woman would. He literally had a meltdown in the fridge saying that loving her is useless and she just walks away and thanks Richie, crying softly. she never truly gives Carmy shit for giving her the wrong number! she’s just not… real
There was definite glimpse scenes of her crying all night though with her friend (I believe?) in S3. Also, Claire herself said she wasn't the peace in S3. I think next S4, we will see her special character POVs & why a Claire love Carmy in the first place.
oh and you totally changed my mind about claire and her dynamic with carmy. i thought "ugh another mpdg" at first and really got irritated at the writers for her lack of depth and development, but you made me look at her from a new perspective and i appreciate that.
@@thenewyorkgirl1326 for sure! i think they’re going about writing her character in a very intentional way. maybe they’re keeping at arm’s length (not giving her much dimension) as to not potentially have to make her a more important character since i think her sole purpose was to come in, show carmy what he’s missing/what he can’t have (a relationship), then leave. thank you for the comment!
Thanks for making and sharing this! Claire is a really interesting and compelling character and I hope we get to see more of her story and a resolution to her conflict with Carmy in future seasons. It’s frustrating how a lot of character hate in 2024 still boils down to “woman” and “not my ship”, especially since there are obvious parallels between her and Carmy, but she just hasn’t been fleshed out yet. If anything, people should get frustrated with the writers, not the characters themselves.
i also find there are parallels between her and carmy, which i think would make them good for each other, but i think carmy's perception of her is so one-dimensional that he doesn't even realize how similar they are and could be. thanks for the comment!
@@kiarawilliams2720 i know you were asking the commenter, but i wanted to add in my own 2 cents haha. for me personally, i think i find her potential and her utilization to be more interesting. she stands out a lot because of how she's written and i generally think she has a lot of potential, but i also find that her purpose is to not being extremely characterized and i think in general i find that fascinating (ie intentionally making a character less complex because that's how another character sees her aka carmy not seeing her as complex). hopefully that made sense lol
@@nia907 it definitely makes sense! and i can see your point i definitely think it’s intentional from the writers but i feel like in practice making a character’s writing intentionally shallow just ends up with the character…being shallow. like watching her scenes just kinda makes my eyes glaze over and that’s not something that happens any other time i’m watching this show
Insane that the same women who are all upset about Claire because she isn't a flawed enough but have no issue with Pete. PETE is the male equivalent of Claire. If men created the Pixie Dream Girl as a fantasy; women created the Inflatable Punching Bag Husband. No matter how hard gets hit he pops right back up with the big smile and the "YOU GOT THIS BABE" sign. He doesn't care that she quit her job and now they are living only on his income. He doesn't get upset that she and her family regularly disrespect him in his own home. He is never impatient or upset that she is always at the restaurant. He has no identity other than Punching Bag
I think the difference though is that Nat just happens to be married to a nice guy who doesn’t create drama for the show, while Claire’s relationship is supposed to be a significant to the main character’s inner conflict. As people they may be similar but as characters they serve very different purposes
Pete isn't the same character as Claire. And I would say we get more depth from Pete than we do from Claire. Pete knows the family doesn't treat him well, but he also obviously has a super good connection with his wife that allowed them to marry each other. He is probably the only normal "family member." So, he isn't just a love interest, he is in the family from the beginning of the show as the in law. Pete is also a normal healthy person, and he is one who the messed up family thinks is a weirdo for being a decent person. It makes sense he is married to the sister as she might be the most normal attempt at healthy in the family lol As the other comment mentioned Claire is for the main character and kind of shows how not ready he is for a healthy relationship with a decent person. I would actually contrast that to his sister who was able to marry Pete and have an okay relationship with him (it seems) for a while despite her messed up family. Her brother isn't fully able to do that and it shows a difference in how their childhoods and experiences have impacted those two characters. I don't think of Pete as an inflatable punching bad, I think his relationship with his wife is not the same as the relationship with her family. I also think Pete literally has more in context history with the family than Claire does, so once again he is more like a part of the chaotic family than just a punching bag husband.
Men didn't create MPDG's as a fantasy. Women did. They only appear in movies with overwhelmingly female audiences. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World had a definitive MPDG. Written by a woman. The MPDG can be found as far back as Jane Austen. It's a female fantasy of being this perfect girl who whirlwinds into a man's life and changes his whole world. Critics want to see themselves represented onscreen as flawed characters. Neurotic youtubers with college degrees want to see themselves reflected onscreen. Audiences want to see a fantasy. And BTW, female writers write males as a Prince, a Prop and a Problem. The Prince is Prince is Prince Charming, simply there to love her; the prop is a sexually non-threatening male like a father figure or a boy or a gay friend to show how sweet she is; and the Problem is the Bad Boy that she needs to get away from to find the man she deserves.
@@ianreid1434 i agree! i was more thinking of despite the screen time, there’s no character outrightly hated like claire. i definitely agree that gary needs some more screen time!
@@nia907I followed Gary because I was interested in being a Somme. As far as Claire goes, I sadly can relate to Carmen in that I have been shallow and thought having an attractive girlfriend would save me from myself only to crash and burn when I realize that they do not do so (don't judge, we ALL make mistakes especially in middle school and high school). I think Carmen either should have known better because of how long he has known Claire, or gone this already because of how long he has known Claire. I was talking about Claire with a friend, and we don't mind if in the end Carmen is with Claire, but there would have to be serious character development that should have been done already. This development would be very off-putting structurally since it would have taken at least 3 seasons to get to with Clair, assuming it starts in season 4. Great video, and I would love to see more content from you!
I cannot believe this is a character that apparently gets hate. Although, similarly, I didn't really realize how little we saw of her outside of Carmy's perspective. She is fairly idealized, though I don't know that her personality is a bad match for him.
I am tired of all this hatred towards her character. Probably, it comes from those who are (were) shipping Carmy and Syd like crazy. Though, I do hated another character that Molly Gordon played on another show (Animal Kingdom). But there the reasons to do so were clear, in contrast to the "Bear".
@@StonedandRolling i completely forgot to mention to that! i also agree in thinking that some of the hatred towards claire solely stems from people thinking she jeopardizes sydcarmy. i’m not a sydcarmy shipper (they’ve had cute moments, but i don’t think it would make sense at all), so i never found claire annoying and liked her for the most part. thank you for the comment!
Hatred? She was my favorite character. I was so pissed when Carmie did what he did to her. Everyone I know feels the same way about her. I think your take is one way to think about her. But another way to think about her is the healer that Carmen so desperately needs in his life. It doesn’t matter that she comes from way back when. To me that only makes it easier because she understands the level of trauma and crazy that he has had to grow up in. A lot of people would have one dinner with Donna and run the other way. She won’t. She is his salvation, she is his strength, she could have been the one thing in his life that actually brought him joy instead of ulcers, pain and panic attacks. I hope he fixes it in the 4th season. I almost didn’t watch the 3rd season 😂😂😂😂 out of shear pettiness because of the breakup. A lot of people love Clair and what she represents for Carmen, the possibility of happiness and were really upset that he never apologized. But I am proud of her for not calling him, not trying to fix his brokenness after that. She deserves better and she knows her worth. I love that even more about her. I hope they do develop her character more in the next season, I hope it works out between them. To me they are perfect for each other.
To be honest I think that the role of "healer" is part of what makes people think of her as a manic pixie dream girl; she comes off as a service to his character instead of a person of her own.
I tried a couple episodes and I couldn't get into it. my favorite shows of all time are Pushing Daisies, the OA, Sense8, 12 Monkeys, Charmed, Westworld, Orphan Black, The Get Down, Anne with an E, Maniac, Black Mirror, Electric Dreams, Fallout, Marvelous Ms Maisel, Jessica Jones, The 100, etc. (i also like first 5 seasons of GOT, and the new show HOTD.) I watch an obscene amount of TV. I do watch stuff that's just about normal humans living life but they dont usually get to top 10 status. i was just kinda bored or stressed out the first 2 episodes & then i realized i wasnt even following the plot bcuz i was getting so annoyed by them yelling at each other that i tuned it out. 😂
@@marigolden_mariposa the characters definitely can stress you out at times lol. there’s an episode in s2 called fishes and wow.. definitely spiked my anxiety ngl. but those are some good shows! i’ve actually just started watching got - well i’m watching hotd first but so far i’m liking it! i literally just started so i’m only on ep 2 but it’s good! and i love black mirror! i still think about shut up and dance sometimes, it was insane. thanks for the comment!
I don't understand how you understood the concept of Claire being an idea and still seem resentful over the fact she wasn't more "3 dimensional". The show wrote perfectly all women with complexity, literally all of them, they just cut Claire to a dream like idea of an happiness Carmy is not able to reach at this point.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
I think she has the capacity to be such an interesting character but they aren't really doing anything with her. I wish we got a Claire episode where we could see more about her life and her flaws. I think one thing they could expand on is that she's an ER resident and how that's similar to Carmy's job. She is probably working 60-80 hours a week and in an incredibly fast paced and chaotic environment and she seems to love it. That's something she could relate to Carmy on and they could give her more personality
that's a great point and i completely forgot to point that out as well! their careers are very similar in that way and i think that's something that should've been touched on as their dynamic definitely could've been affected by that
No. This is how shows get convoluted. The main characters are the focus. Side characters are there to give motive and push the story along. That’s it. That’s why the show is so tight.they focus on the main characters
It’s very possible we may get an episode that goes more in depth about Claire in season 4.
@@iDewThis4Yu who is and isn't main is up to the writers. Someone else pointed out that they'd be best not to wait any longer at expanding Carmy's character arc (i.e., he hasn't changed that much since episode 1. Seeing how the show clearly hasn't forgotten about Clair, pulling her in more could be a prime opportunity for them to grow Carmy more.
Otherwise, him screwing up with Clair has only made him more himself...but if that's the route they wanna take then that's fine too.
I always think they shoot Claire like a dead wife from a cop film. Totally idealised
I do think a Claire episode would be good. Even showing her finding it hard to be the manic pixie dream girl, having to pep herself up into being the perfect girlfriend.
No but an ep dedicated to her day would be so interesting. Like we see a hard day at the ER. For Claire, at her job everything is so important, young female residents aren’t taken seriously in their profession, and a single mistake can cost someone their life. Maybe we could see how Carmy and his problems are an escape for her too.
This.is.it!!! They literally treat her like old family footage of the cop who's drinking his way through grief over his dead wife! Like she's not an actual person. In season 2 and 3, they spent 80% of the show talking about but she was never actually around.
She feels like a shared fever dream. Completely romanticized. I just can't root for this made up relationship
@@msandrews87 personally I think the showrunners are very lazy and indecisive. They want Claire and Carmy but they are unwilling to flesh out her character (and honestly with how much people dislike her already, its either too late to redeem her character, or they'll have to put in extra effort). And on the other hand, they want a platonic relationship with Sydney, yet she and Carmy have the most chemistry and are framed in a way that makes them the most realistic for a potential romance. They need to make up their minds. Mostly so I'll know if I should totally give up on this show because I don't like Claire either, esp right now, and I don't like how they keep stringing Sydney along for more and playing games with the viewers.
@@chisomo8088 you said this perfectly!
I absolutely can't stand Claire because she reminds me of every badly written fanfiction I read when I was 13. "Omg, Y/N? She's so awesome..." "I'm going to call Y/N, she knows how to handle this!" Even the scene where Carmy is stuck in the walk-in makes me cringe. She listens to him rant about their relationship being a waste of time and walks off as the center of attention while somehow remaining angelic and kind to everyone, thanking Richie for the evening. "What did you say to Y/N?? You made her cry!"
It would be interesting if this perfect person was something Claire tried to portray. Instead she just IS that person. She needs an additional dimension because she's completely flat.
i think the show showing claire as this perfect character is intentional, because that's how carmy sees her. i think all of you claire haters are too harsh on her, literally in no scene was she annoying
@@farahhesham7130 I was just on my phone and saw the notification, so I'll reply right away :D
I think her being annoying is very subjective and that's just how a lot of people who watched the show felt about her. It probably stems from the fact that the majority of the characters are constantly raving about how saintly and great a character is that you yourself barely know, so it becomes tiresome.
I fully understand that she's written as a tool to further Carmen's story line, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it. It feels like the storytelling has regressed in quality. It's lazy. And for a character that's supposed to be a catalyst for another character (Carmen), she took up way too much screentime. There are only so many ways in which you can express "This man has personal issues that destroy (romantic) relationships and lead to (self) destructive behavior" before it becomes extremely boring and repetitive. She served her purpose and now her character has to either be fleshed out or cut out.
Not to mention that there is actually so much potential to be explored in her character. Why was she pursuing Carmen so strongly when he basically rejected her? How come she works as a doctor but always finds the time to listen to Carmen and his problems? (Is she keeping her own issues bottled up because she doesn't want to burden anyone?) What was her endgoal in the relationship?
I think it's fine if you're okay with her character the way she is but I personally dislike her character because I want to KNOW her. The same way we have received backstories and intimate storylines for almost every side character. And with how much screentime she took up in season 2 and honestly also season 3 I think it's criminal that they gave her the personality of a dead fish.
@@cappuccinobean2442Ironic, that sounds like a reason why the family makes fun of Pete. Because hes shown to be very patient, kind, a little nerdy, and understanding. Which is probably why Nat loved him. Too perfect for the family to give credit for
@@wymg4480 yes, i thought this as well. Cause Pete seems like a genuinely good guy. But the main difference between him and Claire is Pete doesn't feel like a "perfect" character. He's shown almost as much as Claire, yet we understand him a lot more. Pete seems like someone who wants family, he's a tad insecure but he's also a sweetheart so he tries to make people like him by being himself. He's overly optimistic, to his own detriment at times, but he doesn't seem like a clueless person. He knows what the others think of him, but he feels like the type of person whose mantra is 'kill them with kindness', he just cannot be anything else. Overall, his character is very realistic, I know someone exactly like this as I am sure most people do. All this can be said about Pete without once mentioning Sugar, however, I cannot say the same for Claire without involving Carmy. Her entire character revolves around him, she isn't fully fleshed out and tbh the parts we do see of her isn't even enough to be considered interesting by most people. she's just a bland, boring dream of Carmy's.
I think the main problem is we’ve never seen her, OUTSIDE of when she’s with Carmy, we’ve gotten no content of her doing anything other than being Carmy’s Girlfriend.
Girl who is a friend (joking). But I agree.
That’s literally her character, Camrys girlfriend. The show is about “the bear” she’s not part of the restaurant. She doesn’t matter. That’s the point of her character. I think we might know just as much as Carmy. She’s a nothing character because that’s the narrative. She doesn’t matter to Carmy. He wants her to, but she doesn’t matter.
@@00pium_kingvampstan i agree! even if it was just one scene showing her having an interest outside of carmy, that would’ve been nice. every scene she has she’s somehow serving someone else in a way (whether it be with carmy or even with her friend kelly), we never see simply enjoy herself without having to help someone else. thank you for the comment!
@@d1g1cxlt_ i also agree with this! us knowing just as much as carmy makes a lot of sense. he wants a relationship so badly, but is simply just incapable of being there emotionally and physically (meaning just spending time with her), resulting in him knowing very little about her. thank you for the comment!
i think it’s totally on purpose how claire is written and not a result of “bad writing”. we have to contextualize in order to get the big picture of what her role is in the show.
they are high school sweethearts, a time in your life that romantic partners tend to be idealized. when you have a crush at a young age you usually only see superficial characteristics and don’t really know the person deeply. if it doesn’t evolve into anything more, they become a fond memory, the same way you usually remember the good parts about a deceased loved one. when claire and carmy meet again as grown ups they still see themselves as those idealized versions. as much as carmy sees claire as perfect, she also has this fantasy of who he is. we only see claire through carmy’s eyes, including when his family talks about her. and he is reluctant to perdue a relationship because to him she is perfect and he is not (throughout every season we see how insecure he is and how he’s constantly trying to prove his worth to the people around him, that nasty boss he had, his family. he has constantly been put down and despite doing the most it never seems to be enough). claire might know his family but she doesn’t know that side of him. i think she puts up with a lot of his stunts because he is also a dream to her, the boy she liked in high school. also, that sequence when carmy is having anxiety and claire pops up between his family makes him even more anxious because she is “perfect” and is a constant reminder that he is not (all he hears and sees is how perfect she is. just as it annoys the audience it rattles him to, MPDGs annoy people because they are walking reminders that we will never be as perfect, quirky, and loveable as they are).
i personally liked scenes with claire because they were a breath of fresh air in the turmoil and caos that is the show, calming and warm. that’s how carmy sees those moments too in his chaotic life.
i think it would be interesting to see her perspective and life in an episode, she might see carmy in the same light too. but when he says all those things in the freezer that idealized version of him is shattered, a side of him she didn’t know comes to light.
syd’s dynamic with carmy sort of begins that way too, she looks up to him as a chef but when she starts working with him she sees how troubled he actually is.
that also goes for a lot of other character dynamics in the show, that idealization of outsiders that fuels the insecurities of the characters we know (how richie sees frank, how the family sees pete. these “superficial” characters remind them of all their flaws)
quite the tangent i went on but that’s my take on it and i think if you apply that concept while watching it really highlights the shows good portrayals of perfectionism and complexities of social dynamics. it’s a great show, and it still has flaws but that’s exactly what it’s trying to talk about
This video is what I call a good commentary video, from the title to the pacing of the video, Now THIS is what I want to see more of on youtube. Also, i've always liked Claire and never understood the hate for her but when you said that we're only viewing her through Carmy's eyes, the dots connected and it all just made sense. Great video.
@@FlashLegion wow thank you so much! since this was an old school project, i wrote it as a literal essay first, which is the best process for me when it comes to organizing my thoughts. and yes! when i was researching and found that quote from the creator saying we’re seeing her through carmy’s eyes, it all clicked into place for me. thank you for the comment!
@@nia907 making an essay/script is always the best approach when making vids like this 🤌🏻
Great video. I do believe the intention was that claire is supposed to be a symbol more than a actually character. Like a sign of normalcy but i honestly it would be so much more in her favor if she was actually more than one dimensional. It would make people like claire more so we would better understand why everyone fawns over her. It can kinda be frustrating constantly being told and not ever shown.
@@Mr.Murasakino exactly! being told how great she is, but never seeing it was kind of frustrating. especially since when it comes to any other character and their traits, we don’t have to be explicitly told what their personalities are, we see who everyone is over and over again through their actions. thank you for the comment!
I don't think people would care so much about Claire's underdeveloped character if they hadn't made a point to give so much development to characters with even less screentime than her. We had a whole Christmas episode with Carmen's entire family and I feel like I know them better than her. That's weird... unless that's entirely the point. We don't know her cause Carmy doesn't know her.
"we dont know her, cause carmy doesnt know her" youre so right
that's exactly what i was going for! i think we genuinely know as much about her as carmy does. granted, i don't think carmy is intentionally not trying to learn more about her, i just think he's just got too much going on honestly (which isn't an excuse, but i do think he needs more growth). thank you for the comment!
I love when people say that last line because YES! Carmy DOESN'T KNOW HER, and quick note we feel like we know Sydney because he feels like he knows Sydney.
And notice how everyone keeps telling him what she is and how he feels about her? I find that quite weird but waiting to see more.
Ok, so I've watched the show, and maybe I'm interpreting things wrong, but when Carmy and Syd meet, it's like one of those real "meet-cute" kind of things, was I seeing things when I thought that?, I don't know, so when Claire comes on the scene, I'm not surprised an old flame is back in the picture, but then I got the feeling the show runners were really wanted that to be the real relationship, but it feels fake to me. Syd and Carmy are messy, but they are real, and they communicate (well, except for the elephant in the room), but the really try to grow and improve each other. If it ends up that the show runners only want their relationship to just be "good friends" I'm all for that, I hate the idea that people with a connection always "have" to end up together romantically, but secretly I do want it, lol
There was a massive uptick in sydcarmy shippers after Claire was introduced and I don't think it was a coincidence. especially because the anxiety attack scene was interpreted by so many people as this "Sydney br8ngs him back" type of situation. it happened again in season 3 as well where he was stressing and only Sydney's voice cut through the noise in his heads and again (this time inverted kind of) where he and Sydney are talking after hours and there is this peaceful piano music playing but then this soft rock song (I think) starts playing and mixing with the calm music, slowly overcoming it when he's thinking of calling Claire. this could be the specifics of apologizing to Claire may make him anxious, but he's done worse to people in the kitchen and apologized much more quickly.
ur so real
I call her the Snarky Pixie Dream Girl. Love her character. I suspect more complexity is coming, but if not ... well ... right now her story is just an extension of Carmy's story and that's just fine. You nailed it.
I kinda think her underutilization adds to the very one sided narrative the show gives us Carmy Sees her more as an escape rather than a real individual who could be just as flawed as any of the other characters she’s not given room to be complex because narratively and in Carmys mind she is perfect and exist as a symbol of being “good” in this very hectic, stressful and morally complex story I think her career also plays a role into how we the audience (and carmy) view her she’s a good person and is often praised by carmys family as such but she’s most likely extremely stressed by her job and is just trying to be ok like everyone else in the story but we don’t get to see it because no one is willing to look past her perceived perfection and we (and carmy) often grow irritated or feel inferior too this false idea of her
this was great, i 1,000% agree! if i could add more to my video, i'd touch more on exactly what you said! thanks for the comment!
I def get 500 days of Sumner vibes from her before he hated her. Even the flashback scenes are similar.
I really liked your take on her character! Really hope we get to see more of the real her next season, not as Carmy's gf per se, because he still has a long way to go, but to give her story (and this chapter of his life that was their relationship) some closure
Just subscribed to your channel! Cant wait to see more of you content also ✨️
I wish we got more Claire but I also don't think she was ever meant to be an actual character. I agree with the "Claire is written like a plot device for the main character" idea. It's not good writing to make a 2D character that's purpose is to show the main characters flaws, I hate when shows do that, especially ofc when it's supposed to be a love interest, because I personally couldn't feel any chemistry or connection between the two characters in season 2, and that's probably because she didn't feel like a character.
i love comparing the interactions carmy has with claire (stunted, staggered, and not saying much at all) vs. carmy with the rest of the bear, particularly syd (much more animated, finishing each other's sentences, wearing his heart on his sleeve). i choose to believe that the writers intentionally wrote claire with an ideal, perfect personality to emphasize just how self-destructive carmy can be, that even when all the external circumstances are perfect for him, he still sabotages himself out of punishment and self-loathing. imo claire was never written to be a viable love interest to carmy, but rather as a 2D storytelling device to highlight the nuances of carmy's grief and mental health (because i refuse to believe that writers that can write such complex female characters like syd and nat can "accidentally" write a female character as reductive as claire).
amazing analysis and can't wait for s4 to expand on this idea like you said!
Oh dear lord, I'm not ready for a "500 days of summer"esque ending for carmy and claire to this already chaotic mix 😅
Great essay! I agree with a lot of the criticisms people have that Claire is an under-developed character, but that said I can’t understand why certain fans seem to loathe her. I always found her to be likable and genuine but never thought she came off as annoyingly cutesy or anything. But in essence she kind of is a MPDG. I really wish the writers had fleshed her out as a person more this season but we literally only get one scene at the hospital and it doesn’t even involve Carmy. Will they even bring her back next season?
@@dollarsaurus01 i agree! i can understand maybe not enjoying her, but the hatred she gets never made sense. i do think it’s partially because of sydcarmy (which i’m not a shipper of, i just don’t think it makes sense), so i think a lot of it just comes from her “interfering” with them even though there’s not much to interfere with, in my opinion. thank you for the comment!
Absolutely agreed with everything you said in the video. I always figured we see Claire as this symbol for escapism from his professional life. The show as a whole and Carmy always reminded me of the movie Whiplash. The mc in that movie ends up choosing ambition over personal connection and the ending leads to literally glorifying abuse. I do not like when arts glorify violence at all. We see this same ideas tackled into Bear too. So far the show seems hyper aware of what it is doing and I would absolutely hate it if it ended up being like Whiplash. I just wish Claire has more of a soul to her character in later seasons. Season 3 barely did anything to expand on her role and as a thematic device to Carmy's arc. I hope for the best with Bear. Because all in all, the show has the potential to be one of the greatest and it would hurt to see it not happen
i 100% also get whiplash vibes from the bear at times and although i do think it's intentional, i agree with you when it comes to hoping they don't forget the original intention. the show has so much potential to be one of the greats, so i'm also hoping the characters are written in the right direction
Don’t agree with that assessment at all, Whiplash does not glorify abuse and violence. It’s a cautionary tale about abusive workplaces and you’re supposed to feel troubled by the end of the film seeing what it costs him to be great. The shot of his dad watching him on stage in shock is intended to mirror the audience. Depiction is not endorsement
@@dollarsaurus01 That's attaching your own opinion to the movie. It's what Andrew wanted. Whatever you feel about if it's right or wrong doesn't matter. The movie pretty obviously says what Andrew wants in that dinner table scene and Fletcher gave him that. Whether you agree or disagree if it was worth it is up to you but the movie doesn't take a clear stance
@@dollarsaurus01 It's problematic when the mc himself literally seeks this toxic validation from this piece of shit. The final shot literally shows that him choosing this path is him choosing the right path(in his opinion). It's one way to say that art doesn't promote abuse, but when it so obviously on the nose that Andrew chooses to do so when he is the mc. To be the depiction, you need to present a dichotomoy/critique through the characters. Not once, Andrew is made realise or told verbally/symbolically that his path towards greatness is wrong. Idk how you can see it not glorifying. Also, Andrew is kind of a piece of shit. Because of people like Fletcher, cycles of abuse perpetuates in the workplace and Andrew literally wants to seek his validation so badly wanting him as a mentor. How is it not obvious lol
I don't think it glorifies it so much as offers a very realistic depiction of what it's like being groomed and trapped in an abusive relationship of any kind. Most take several attempts to fully cut ties with their abusers.
As someone who has been a Claire to a Carmy, Claire's behaviour don't seem healthy to me. They stem from deep codependency "I can fix him" issues, and that could have been an interesting plot line. She is in the healthcare industry as well, and they could have at least given us some insight into her psyche as well. Her being excessively empathetic and understanding, even to the point where she says that you never have to say sorry, is also not a healthy boundary. Claire could have been so much more as a character, I would have loved to see her backstory. But right now she is just a plot device.
@@ananyapurkayastha2942 i 1,000% agree! her boundaries being virtually nonexistent is incredibly unhealthy and definitely gives off “i can fix him.” having this deep empathy and understanding for your partner to the point where they’re not being held accountable for anything really feeds into that. this was a really interesting perspective to hear from so thank you for commenting!
@@nia907 When people talk about how perfect and one dimensional she is, I think this is what they are missing. She had a major flaw.
As you mentioned in the video, the way she has been portrayed has been the way Carmy sees her. She is an idealized version of what she actually is and that is someone that will forgive anything. He pretends not to remember her. He lies to her. He treats her terribly. This does not sway her, not because she is perfect but because she is obsessed with Carmy.
I don't think this comes from nowhere. She is, to my knowledge, the only character to have a musical leitmotif. Several times in Season 2, and prominently in the marketing, we hear R.E.M's Strange Currencies playing. Every single piece of music in The Bear is intentional and extremely well chosen. This is probably the most impactful, not only because of the way it is used, but also because it is repeated.
Read the lyrics of Strange Currencies, it starts, "I don't know why you're mean to me when I call on the telephone. And I don't know what you mean to me but..." and goes on to later say "I need a word, a signal, nod, a little breath, just to fool myself, to catch myself, and make it real." The song isn't from Carmy's perspective. It is from hers.
For some context, each song on the album it is on is about an unhealthy all-consuming obsession with examples being money, power, sex, jealousy, being cool and, yes, even the love song. The album was called Monster and the cover art is a distorted picture of a bear. The song was absolutely the perfect choice to drive this home. Everyone has a monster, Carmy (her obsession) is hers.
@@PizzaRedemption i feel like you should be making video essays on the bear, not me! that was a great comment! and i completely agree. to be honest, i never really focused on the music before, but it makes sense since i feel like sound in general is such a prominent driving force for the show (ie. shouting, typical kitchen noises like pots, pans, knives, etc etc).
Thank you! You definitely should give the show another watch and focus on the music. The songs add a lot to the theme and tone of each episode. The lyrics are very often completely on point and it shows just how much thought was put into each selection and the mood of the episode they are featured in. The Bear is a very well-produced show on pretty much every level. There are things I missed on first watch that I caught on my second that increased my already already very high opinion of the show.
@@PizzaRedemption Best comment here. I would def watch your video, let us know if you make one!
Idk man, we only see Tina's husband once, barely see Sydney's dad and Ricky's ex, I think she gets little screen time simple because she's just a minor character
i agree! she’s a side character that i think, because of what her role was going to be (aka carmy’s girlfriend), i just expected her to have a bit more personality. especially since she’s a family friend, i thought she’d be able to get a deeper story with them since they go way back. granted the other characters you mention also have a deep history with the main characters, but because this was going to be such a new experience for carmy (having a romantic relationship), i thought they’d highlight her just a little more. thank you for the comment!
claire is there to show that carmy doesn’t have the capacity for deep romantic connection, despite how much he craves it.
@@ione97 i definitely agree with this! he’s not in the right headspace for it, making him both emotionally unavailable and physically unavailable since he’s so busy with the restaurant. if i wanted to even stretch it further, i could say maybe they’re trying to show a reason for why syd and carmy also wouldn’t work (not sydcarmy shipper, just theorizing)
Wait, how do we know that Carmy doesn’t have that capacity though? Maybe Claire just isn’t the one for him and that’s why things are playing out the way they are thus far.
@@Keesha_Hardy oh you make a great point! for me, i guess i’m still thinking of everything we’ve seen happen in his life so far (leaving an incredibly toxic culinary environment, rebuilding and rebranding an entire restaurant, all while dealing with open wounds from family stuff aka michael) and was wondering if he was at a point where he could let someone in on that level. but you’re not wrong - i do also think that claire just might not be the one for him and could find someone else that fits him better!
I agree that Claire is a concept that ties Carmy to his past. His relationship with her is him, in a sense, trying to rewrite his past. I think this is why she doesn’t have a back story, because she is his past and not his future. She’s just a plot device not a fully formed person.
Please continue in film studies, we could use someone like you to direct or write something that we can watch and enjoy without having insane tropes one day. All the best luck, nice video essay!
wow thanks so much!
came into this a bit on the fence of where you were going with describing her characterization as someone who finds the character a bit annoying, but by the end i am in complete agreement with you. claire serves a purpose, but as of now her only purpose is to serve carmy, she only exists to us through him, and never outside of that. i dont believe she deserves unwarranted amounts of hate, but its frustrating to see a character so one dimensional in a show where everyone else is 3D. beautiful essay, also!
@@ssjack2 thank you so much, i’m glad that you heard me out! i 100% agree that it’s really jarring to have such a 1d character in a show like this but i always felt that just made her inclusion even more intentional.
i think she doesn't need dimensionality because she never struck me as interesting or in need of it. like you said, the purpose of her character is to serve as a catalyst for carmy's character development. accordingly, she's given limited screentime and never came off as overbearing.
@@chihun3981 Except for the beginning of one of the episodes in S3 where she just keeps talking and talking. I left the room, made myself a bowl of cereal, returned to the living room and she was STILL telling Carmy a story. My god, I wanted to yell shut up at the screen lol
@@chihun3981 i see your perspective on that, definitely! i think her flatness as a character is the overbearing part of it, and their (writers) insistence on keeping it flat and uninteresting in such a fast paced, chaotic, personality-filled show is overbearing to viewers like me, where all of the things i listed are what makes the show attractive in the first place. i also hate the idea of a woman’s whole characterization revolving around a man in any piece of media 😭
I think there is nothing wrong with manic pixie dream girl archetype in story. There is no doubt that it's very common for boys/men dream about their ideal love sweetheart & MPDG is practically almost every first or their best young love. Exactly like how ever woman/girls always dream about about their ideal men like a chad loving big bad boy...
I am just saying. It's rather weird that almost EVERY women centric romance story/movies/shows are always have such ideal men stereotypes but there is practically zero conversation about it.
I wonder what's the opposite trope? There are some cases of a manic pixie dream boy (The Fault in Our Stars, Titanic), but that's not the most popular one. Then of course you've got some seriously toxic archetypes, such as the hot manipulative stalker and the third-wheeling nice guy duo found in pretty much every YA novel with a female protagonist.
Men didn't create MPDG's as a fantasy. Women did. They only appear in movies with overwhelmingly female audiences. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World had a definitive MPDG. Written by a woman. The MPDG can be found as far back as Jane Austen. It's a female fantasy of being this perfect girl who whirlwinds into a man's life and changes his whole world. female writers write males as a Prince, a Prop and a Problem. The Prince is Prince is Prince Charming, simply there to love her; the prop is a sexually non-threatening male like a father figure or a boy or a gay friend to show how sweet she is; and the Problem is the Bad Boy that she needs to get away from to find the man she deserves.
girl just subscribed not only bc of the great video essay. but dw as one of your favorite shows. i know you have great taste :)
@@luvulots18 omg thank you so much! i’m literally on my, like, 4th rewatch right now. and i’m definitely tempted to think of something i could talk about relating to doctor who but i’m not sure what at the moment! but thank you again for the comment, alyssa :)
Thank you for this video! I don't hate Claire, I actually liked her relationship with Carmen in S2 since I knew they will use it to show us how self-destructive Carmen could be. BUT I also found myself rolling my eyes and feeling uncomfortable every time she was on screen. I figured it was due to this MPDG aura she had going on. She is a doctor, who has all the time of the world to be there for Carmen and deal with his bs?!! A DOCTOR??!!!! She doesn't seem to really have a life out of being Carmen's dream girl. Carmen basically told her she was a waste of his time and she just went out with "grace" and a kiss??? BEAT UP THAT MF, CLAIRE! (jk)
What pisses me off a little about all this is that they could have show us how broken Carmen is without using the MPDG trope. Just show a decent human being that has her life and struggles but is still more healthy than Carmen's entire family... it's not really that hard with that specific family yk...
i agree with you on pretty much all counts but i just have to say the inclusions of clips from "paper towns" got a laugh from me because of john green's entire intent behind it being that he mc whose name i can't even remember was idealizing margo and didn't even really know her
This made me realise that The Bear in no way shape or form can end in the next season. The story needs more!
I think they said it'd be five seasons
I was never bothered by Claire, but I do hope we get to see more layers of her character in the next season. I really like the actor and want to see her have more to do as this character.
just to defend some sydcarmy shippers, I'm a loose fan (if somehow they get together, cool, but I watch the show for the family aspect) and I didn't like Claire in the first place. I didn't even entertain the idea Sydney and Carmy as a potential relationship until like 2 months after I watched season 2, so I don't think it's the most unbiased thing to immediately jump to shipping on why people don't like her. My biggest problem was the very out-of-nowhere nature of her showing up.
hmmm first of all I'd like to say that I STILL don't understand why people hate Claire. I loved her when she showed up. also i don't think she showed out of nowhere, the first season was introducing us to the idea of the bear and to carmy and it was a short season, i don't think they could've introduced her in the first season
@@farahhesham7130 it's like they wanted us to care about her as soon as she showed up. At first I thought "did I miss her introduction? Did I miss a scene?" But we're supposed to immediately believe she's this girl carmy had heart eyes for a decade ago and she just fully liked him back the same amount. It just wasn't a choice that worked for me.
my mom dislikes the idea of syd and carmy together and sees them as strictly platonic, and she HATED Claire lol so i don’t think it has to do with shipping
@@joselocalau123 yeah I think it's a big conflation to say sydcarmy shippers are Claire antis because they don't want her with carmy. A lot of people simply just don't like her or are apathetic.
omg end of beginning in your video soo good , LOVE the analysis too
@@soph5707 thank you! i felt legally obligated to put end of beginning in there haha
i mean the problem is as a woman i see myself not only with my issues i see it with the male gaze and the male gender's problems. this is the thing that made me ''pick me, it girl, cool girl, pixie girl'' in the first place. because if i want to survive in this world i need to see myself and understand myself with the understanding of male gender. and sometimes, most of the times you become that shell that protects you from men. And your story start to fade and now you are the someone's version
Claire NEEDS to go away forever.
@@So-tf1dz you’re not wrong lol. since she’s only being used as a plot device and only really there to show carmy just how not ready he is to be in a relationship, i feel like her time does probably need to come to an end soon
Yeah, at this point, with the fact that Carmy hasn’t talked to her the whole season 3, I just don’t see why the show runner(s) would put them back together S4 (I hope that’s not their plan). I don’t feel invested in Claire as a character because she has no established character arc, and she just feels like an outsider, only really here to be Carmy’s love interest, as she has not interacted with any other characters much, outside of Carmy, of course, & the Fak brothers.
Pete (Nat’s husband) and Tiffany (Richie’s ex), for instance, both have, while small, established arcs (Pete: to be accepted by the family, namely Richie & Cicero; Tiffany: to marry Frank & continue navigating co-parenting with Richie). They have also both been shown to have interacted with much of the family.
I don't see anything compelling about Claire. Someone said they show her like they would a deceased gf/wife, and I agree. She has no umph, no spark that makes me want to know more about her. I don't know if that is because of the writing, the actress, or what. Claire is a basic character that gets applauded for it 🤷♀️. The other characters are so invested and keep acting like Claire is the best thing since sliced bread, but we are never shown that. They had two seasons to show us and did nothing. One of my biggest gripes is how they said this wasn't a show about romance (something along those lines), but then turned around and shoved Claire in for Carmy, who in my opinion, doesn't need to be with anyone and I think it would be way more compelling to see him make attempts at working through his trauma, not pining over someone he gave the wrong number to.
And you know what's funny? The same people who used that as a way to drag Sydcarmy fans are jumping at defending Claire and their "Relationship" It's ironic in a fustratingly funny way.
Because Pete is a compelling character that you want to know something about? Women are upset about Claire because she isn't awful. Every other female character is flawed and crappy and would be a terrible romantic partner which is why female viewers like them but not Claire.
@@thomasolson1154 Yeah you are SO wrong and projecting. VIEWERS don't like Claire because she is UNREALISTIC and a doormat for Carmy. In fact people hate how she's written and not her necissarily. If you actually cared to listen to views that don't suit your agenda, you would come to understand that. Her and Carmy are toxic, he is constantly confused about her and she just takes it. It's so wrong.
@@kimberleywilliams7802 I'm projecting 😆😆 Viewers? You mean women, because it isn't men who have an issue with the character. AS FOR Realistic and doormat 😅😅 Punching Bag Pete who never looses that stupid smile even when his wife is berating him, her family are constantly belittling him he doesn't get upset. When his wife decided to quit her job and just live on his income there wasn't even a discussion. SO your "agenda" that all women should be complicated three dimensional characters who would make terrible romantic partners is keeping you from seeing that Pete is far worse than Claire but you don't see an issue with a man being treated like crap.
her character seemed so random and out of nowhere, i was like huh who tf is dis? Also does she interact with any other character beside carmy??
Hey this is a nice essay, love it
@@healthtourguide thanks so much!
Napkins is such a great episode in season 3 and I m yet to watch last 2.
Why is the fact that you haven't seen the last two episodes relevant to napkins greatness?
@@FredrikSkievan coz in season 2 last 2 episodes were absolute bamgers! I saw forks then fishes and the last one in which carmy ends up in a fridge were awesome. So i m hoping that more awesomer episodes are ahead of me!
pursuiant to the description, i am really enjoying this! please keep going :)
@@zuz33 thank you :) i’m currently trying to decide what i should talk about in the next one! suggestions are welcome :)
what pissed me off about Claire is that she puts up with Carmy’s bullshit in a way no living woman would. He literally had a meltdown in the fridge saying that loving her is useless and she just walks away and thanks Richie, crying softly. she never truly gives Carmy shit for giving her the wrong number! she’s just not… real
Different people deal with hurt differently though. Some people get sad and quiet instead of angry.
There was definite glimpse scenes of her crying all night though with her friend (I believe?) in S3. Also, Claire herself said she wasn't the peace in S3. I think next S4, we will see her special character POVs & why a Claire love Carmy in the first place.
Carmy is the manic pixie dream girl. Claire is grounded and mature the whole time despite the chaos of Carmy and everyone he knows
i thoroughly enjoyed this video and hope you make more about the bear!!
oh and you totally changed my mind about claire and her dynamic with carmy. i thought "ugh another mpdg" at first and really got irritated at the writers for her lack of depth and development, but you made me look at her from a new perspective and i appreciate that.
I love this!!! Amazing video (I love your vocabulary so much)
@@namiko8278 thank you! and i try haha
OMG THIS IS SO GOOD! I agree with this.
@@MakedaPhillips thank you, makeda!
their interactions are so boring and why do they whisper to each other so much, its either whisper or screaming in this show lol
Great video!
I'd love to see a different side to Claire as well. But I have faith the writers know what they're doing.
@@thenewyorkgirl1326 for sure! i think they’re going about writing her character in a very intentional way. maybe they’re keeping at arm’s length (not giving her much dimension) as to not potentially have to make her a more important character since i think her sole purpose was to come in, show carmy what he’s missing/what he can’t have (a relationship), then leave. thank you for the comment!
Thanks for making and sharing this! Claire is a really interesting and compelling character and I hope we get to see more of her story and a resolution to her conflict with Carmy in future seasons. It’s frustrating how a lot of character hate in 2024 still boils down to “woman” and “not my ship”, especially since there are obvious parallels between her and Carmy, but she just hasn’t been fleshed out yet. If anything, people should get frustrated with the writers, not the characters themselves.
i don’t hate claire i just find her really boring generally, but i am fully genuinely asking what you find interesting and compelling about her?
i also find there are parallels between her and carmy, which i think would make them good for each other, but i think carmy's perception of her is so one-dimensional that he doesn't even realize how similar they are and could be. thanks for the comment!
@@kiarawilliams2720 i know you were asking the commenter, but i wanted to add in my own 2 cents haha. for me personally, i think i find her potential and her utilization to be more interesting. she stands out a lot because of how she's written and i generally think she has a lot of potential, but i also find that her purpose is to not being extremely characterized and i think in general i find that fascinating (ie intentionally making a character less complex because that's how another character sees her aka carmy not seeing her as complex). hopefully that made sense lol
@@nia907 it definitely makes sense! and i can see your point i definitely think it’s intentional from the writers but i feel like in practice making a character’s writing intentionally shallow just ends up with the character…being shallow. like watching her scenes just kinda makes my eyes glaze over and that’s not something that happens any other time i’m watching this show
I both love Claire and also love this spot on analysis. It would great if the show subverts the MPG like 500 Days of Summer did.
Your video is amazing ✨
Insane that the same women who are all upset about Claire because she isn't a flawed enough but have no issue with Pete. PETE is the male equivalent of Claire. If men created the Pixie Dream Girl as a fantasy; women created the Inflatable Punching Bag Husband. No matter how hard gets hit he pops right back up with the big smile and the "YOU GOT THIS BABE" sign. He doesn't care that she quit her job and now they are living only on his income. He doesn't get upset that she and her family regularly disrespect him in his own home. He is never impatient or upset that she is always at the restaurant. He has no identity other than Punching Bag
I think the difference though is that Nat just happens to be married to a nice guy who doesn’t create drama for the show, while Claire’s relationship is supposed to be a significant to the main character’s inner conflict. As people they may be similar but as characters they serve very different purposes
Pete isn't the same character as Claire. And I would say we get more depth from Pete than we do from Claire. Pete knows the family doesn't treat him well, but he also obviously has a super good connection with his wife that allowed them to marry each other. He is probably the only normal "family member." So, he isn't just a love interest, he is in the family from the beginning of the show as the in law.
Pete is also a normal healthy person, and he is one who the messed up family thinks is a weirdo for being a decent person. It makes sense he is married to the sister as she might be the most normal attempt at healthy in the family lol
As the other comment mentioned Claire is for the main character and kind of shows how not ready he is for a healthy relationship with a decent person. I would actually contrast that to his sister who was able to marry Pete and have an okay relationship with him (it seems) for a while despite her messed up family. Her brother isn't fully able to do that and it shows a difference in how their childhoods and experiences have impacted those two characters.
I don't think of Pete as an inflatable punching bad, I think his relationship with his wife is not the same as the relationship with her family. I also think Pete literally has more in context history with the family than Claire does, so once again he is more like a part of the chaotic family than just a punching bag husband.
.woah
Men didn't create MPDG's as a fantasy. Women did. They only appear in movies with overwhelmingly female audiences. Seeking a Friend for the End of the World had a definitive MPDG. Written by a woman. The MPDG can be found as far back as Jane Austen. It's a female fantasy of being this perfect girl who whirlwinds into a man's life and changes his whole world. Critics want to see themselves represented onscreen as flawed characters. Neurotic youtubers with college degrees want to see themselves reflected onscreen. Audiences want to see a fantasy. And BTW, female writers write males as a Prince, a Prop and a Problem. The Prince is Prince is Prince Charming, simply there to love her; the prop is a sexually non-threatening male like a father figure or a boy or a gay friend to show how sweet she is; and the Problem is the Bad Boy that she needs to get away from to find the man she deserves.
Agreed, I feel bad for both
You hit the algorithm
You forgot the dishwashers…
All Characters get love? What about Gary(?) the Somme? His growth is all off screen, and I have never seen an analysis on him.
Yess, we need a Garry episode! Maybe in season 4
@@ianreid1434 i agree! i was more thinking of despite the screen time, there’s no character outrightly hated like claire. i definitely agree that gary needs some more screen time!
@@nia907I followed Gary because I was interested in being a Somme. As far as Claire goes, I sadly can relate to Carmen in that I have been shallow and thought having an attractive girlfriend would save me from myself only to crash and burn when I realize that they do not do so (don't judge, we ALL make mistakes especially in middle school and high school). I think Carmen either should have known better because of how long he has known Claire, or gone this already because of how long he has known Claire. I was talking about Claire with a friend, and we don't mind if in the end Carmen is with Claire, but there would have to be serious character development that should have been done already. This development would be very off-putting structurally since it would have taken at least 3 seasons to get to with Clair, assuming it starts in season 4. Great video, and I would love to see more content from you!
I cannot believe this is a character that apparently gets hate. Although, similarly, I didn't really realize how little we saw of her outside of Carmy's perspective. She is fairly idealized, though I don't know that her personality is a bad match for him.
love island was IN YOUR TOP 3??
@@adabing3060 LOL i was partially joking, but i honestly love messy tv
Phenomenal video
@@adityakrishna4137 thank you so much!
I am tired of all this hatred towards her character. Probably, it comes from those who are (were) shipping Carmy and Syd like crazy. Though, I do hated another character that Molly Gordon played on another show (Animal Kingdom). But there the reasons to do so were clear, in contrast to the "Bear".
@@StonedandRolling i completely forgot to mention to that! i also agree in thinking that some of the hatred towards claire solely stems from people thinking she jeopardizes sydcarmy. i’m not a sydcarmy shipper (they’ve had cute moments, but i don’t think it would make sense at all), so i never found claire annoying and liked her for the most part. thank you for the comment!
«differently able college kids»? And said in the more nonchalant and inocuous way like it was always that way...
Claire unloved. Seriously. No way.
i know right?
Season 3 was so terrible. Nothing happened and the faks, oh the faks, sooo unbearable
ok ya okk no no ok ok no no no yea ok no no no jeeeesus fucking season 3
Hatred? She was my favorite character. I was so pissed when Carmie did what he did to her. Everyone I know feels the same way about her. I think your take is one way to think about her. But another way to think about her is the healer that Carmen so desperately needs in his life. It doesn’t matter that she comes from way back when. To me that only makes it easier because she understands the level of trauma and crazy that he has had to grow up in. A lot of people would have one dinner with Donna and run the other way. She won’t. She is his salvation, she is his strength, she could have been the one thing in his life that actually brought him joy instead of ulcers, pain and panic attacks. I hope he fixes it in the 4th season. I almost didn’t watch the 3rd season 😂😂😂😂 out of shear pettiness because of the breakup.
A lot of people love Clair and what she represents for Carmen, the possibility of happiness and were really upset that he never apologized. But I am proud of her for not calling him, not trying to fix his brokenness after that. She deserves better and she knows her worth. I love that even more about her. I hope they do develop her character more in the next season, I hope it works out between them. To me they are perfect for each other.
To be honest I think that the role of "healer" is part of what makes people think of her as a manic pixie dream girl; she comes off as a service to his character instead of a person of her own.
Favourite character is crazy
I tried a couple episodes and I couldn't get into it.
my favorite shows of all time are Pushing Daisies, the OA, Sense8, 12 Monkeys, Charmed, Westworld, Orphan Black, The Get Down, Anne with an E, Maniac, Black Mirror, Electric Dreams, Fallout, Marvelous Ms Maisel, Jessica Jones, The 100, etc. (i also like first 5 seasons of GOT, and the new show HOTD.)
I watch an obscene amount of TV.
I do watch stuff that's just about normal humans living life but they dont usually get to top 10 status.
i was just kinda bored or stressed out the first 2 episodes & then i realized i wasnt even following the plot bcuz i was getting so annoyed by them yelling at each other that i tuned it out. 😂
@@marigolden_mariposa the characters definitely can stress you out at times lol. there’s an episode in s2 called fishes and wow.. definitely spiked my anxiety ngl. but those are some good shows! i’ve actually just started watching got - well i’m watching hotd first but so far i’m liking it! i literally just started so i’m only on ep 2 but it’s good! and i love black mirror! i still think about shut up and dance sometimes, it was insane. thanks for the comment!
westworld is ass
Not the point of any of this amazing video but, DOCTOR WHO AT NO.1
who's the girl at 3:59?
grace vanderwaal in stargirl :)
@@nia907 thank you :DD!
I don't understand how you understood the concept of Claire being an idea and still seem resentful over the fact she wasn't more "3 dimensional".
The show wrote perfectly all women with complexity, literally all of them, they just cut Claire to a dream like idea of an happiness Carmy is not able to reach at this point.
"manic pixie dream girl" be so serious shes literally just a nurse
very true, she is a nurse! they're just my thoughts though, no biggie :)
@@nia907 yeah sorry idk why i took it personally xd
she’s a doctor
Damn chill out 😂 you say that as if a "mpd girl" can't be a nurse
manic pixie dream girl is a common trope. It's literally what it's called
A golden apple will be hated by those made of wrought iron.
Jealousy is an ugly adversary, and an uglier master.
Of all time lol girl you must have not watch many shows
Rude
@@DumiNihi no
Your video is amazing ✨