I think these changes are overall a step in the right direction. Bigger teams are good, they reward smarter players. Yes the maps need to be spread more out, the most annoying thing is that the solution is ALREADY IN THE GAME. JUST MAKE TOP TIER AIR ENDURING CONFRONTION. Literally is what you suggested in the end
Yes, sim EC is quite literally what I am talking about. That also makes me believe it shouldn't be super hard for Gaijin to implement changes like these.
@@rancorusia Honestly I find those maps too big. I think in terms of actual map size (AF to AF) of these newer maps is rather good. Late game on those massive EC maps feels like finding a needle in a haystack, even with radar it can take a while before you find the last enemy.
@@WalvisYT This is what I've been asking for, for so fucking long. The fact that most games end the same way is irritable beyond belief. Chasing the last few enemy players around a larger map has made the game unplayable for me. My opinion is that they should scrap the old game modes as they were placeholder to begin with and focus on EC type game modes, as they will allow the developers to actually develop the game. Instead of puking out as many vehicles as they can for us to throw our wallets and time at... We all know Warthunder in its current state does not justify the amount of time and money we spend on it. Its never fun enough. This game needs major changes if it ever wants to be the game we all want.
I've been saying forever that Enduring Confrontation should be its own game mode. Getting stuck in an EC Map flying an strike aircraft/bomber is just a guaranteed 10 minute flight to certain death, and its a nightmare for fighters when the last enemy on a team decides to play chicken forcing someone to waste an order, which usually doesn't last long enough to chase down the target given the distance. The slightly larger regular maps are fine, though still a major pain for prop boys and other subtonics. The grind in this game is so much of a slog already, its less about meme neuron activation than it is spending multiple irl years to grind a tree to top teir, and that's if you're playing multiple hours every day. Any further delay added to that slog is just a slap in the face to the community which is why its generating backlash. Imagine if they did this shit in ground RB, adding 5-10 minutes to every single match.
They don't have to do that to ground RB. Ground RB you can spend 10 minutes and barely squeak out a win at 10.0-11.0, and all the while you only get 5k RP. If you get a cap point and camp the enemy spawn (because maybe you want to prove you can't play fair or that you are a loser) then you might get 10k RP. Ground RB is already a waste of time. I think people constantly miss the point: Gaijin is not making a game for you to play. They're trying to milk your bank account, and the way they do this is subtly under the guise of making a game. That is not the same thing. The longer they can slow down your grind, the longer they can milk you for premium time (at the very least, or premium vehicles or using gold for unlocks on top of that). People who play for free actually help increase those profits, whether you believe it or not, it is true. Children who rush home from school every day to grind 7 hours a night to get to top tier, actually influence people with full time jobs to spend money, just to be able to compete with people who are already fully spaded at 12.0. Those people have jobs and likely have families in most cases, or at the very least social lives, so there is no way someone can compete in a game with a child that has none of that. Free to play is one the best unregulated money making schemes, and people constantly discount Gaijin for doing something that makes the game less fun, when in reality they're really trying to make you pay more money (and succeeding at it).
"Getting stuck in an EC Map flying an strike aircraft/bomber is just a guaranteed 10 minute flight to certain death" pretty much sums up my entire experience with this update, especially if the fighters can't get to your location fast enough and you are there stuck with interceptors trying to shoot you down, it's especially hard when it's pretty much a guarantee that as a bomber your engine is the enemies primary target, and even if you manage to survive that, the distance between the combat zone to the airfield is a pain to fly, cause with the increase distance it's a guarantee that you are dead by either a secondary enemy or your plane succumbing to it's damages and crash
The other problem with bigger maps is that the vehicles are Gepards and such now, being sniped by SPAA while dogfighting is incredibly frustrating also the fact HE is broken does not help with actually trying to take out these ground units. This patch has put AirRB into such a mess its quite amazing how they can do this with a handful so small changes and absolutely destroy a game mode.
@@Eonymia Gaijin has some weird AAA fetish in AirRB... I remeber back in the day when random AAA guided by hand of god will hit you when you are at 4km altitude going 500kph in your prop.
I guess it would make sense for a properly developed EC match as in real life you also wouldn't start a dogfight in accurate AA range.😅 I do understand that it is frustrating though.
Honestly every change you made is something I would belive to be for the best and i cannot believe that gaijin is missing a map designer after 7+ years of this game existence. I think they should add a ec game mode for ARB that you can respawn that would be a blast since jet bombers and attackers would actually have an impact for the win.
The problem is if they´d add RB EC they´d nerf the hell out of it in terms of RP/SL-gain because it would remove the suffering and grind. See what they did with Heli EC, first you get farmed by prem helis but you could still get decent RP and SL despite being farmed, now you get maybe a fraction of that at best. Not to discourage the idea, I liked RB EC but we all know GJ all too well and how that will end.
@@venusflytrap2622 well in ARB premiums usually arent the best except some broken ones but id say itll be fine since with my mig 21 smt talismaned and with premium account i get around 300k rp every hour not counting q times or loading time. My matches last 5 minutes on average and i make ~25k rp almost every match so if we exclude q times and loading times its 300k rp so an arb ec that last 30minutes to 1hour long itll be fine since you can lose a lot of sl if the aircraft is expensive and you die a lot.
Worth noting that ticket count also has not been changed to compensate for bigger teams. So on certain maps games will end even quicker than before because of an American team that is 75% ground attack aircraft.
EC is a great game mode for SIM and when they had a true EC ARB. But those game modes weren't one life TDM style. Playing EC with one life sucks but if they let you respawn it'd be alot better.
These are very good ideas for changes but i think Gaijin really needs to split ARB into two modes - small map, small teams, no respawns and large maps, large team, respawns (EC). These half measures please nobody.
This change gaijin just did is actually even worse for EVERYONE. People who didn't want big map, well shit. People who wanted bigger map (for the reason to make fights more spread out instead of braindead mindless swarm), well shit. Literally pleases nobody, and pisses everyone. People who play slow plane like A10 can't actually function as a ground strike. It's actually worse because more clusterfucks are happening in the same area. People who grind fighters will suffer more because you kill one, and you die because there's too many to keep track of. People who want to bomb bases, now have to compete with more people for the same reward and less chance of managing to nib a base. Absolute bonker.
@@triparadox.c Facts spoken. Also sucks when your entire team dies to the busted R-27ER's and you are a 1v11. I don't think I've ever had a ratio of players that bad ever
I'd love this, i like playing bombers but if you only get one life then you're just going to die and maybe get a base. It'd give higher tier bombers a purpose when currently we have these cool planes like the Canberra (one of my favourite planes) being more or less pointless to have in the game
Idea: Spread out the objectives again, and add 2 runways per team where half of each team is randomly assigned to each. Also add 6 bases per team. And extend the match length. Edit: nm you litteraly just said that.
Your suggestions on how to fix it are great, bur something else worth adding is a bit more extra time (like 5 minutes or so), and stopping the tickets from obliterating themselves at the rapid rate they do currently. Also I love these intros lol.
I got one of these huge maps last night at 5.7 in an AU-1 prop. It was an auto nope for me. I apologized to my team, landed and J'd out. I would rather eat the 6-8 min crew lock than spend all that time just flying straight.
I honestly love you bro. You’re the only content creator I’ve personally seen speak out about these god forsaken changes with an open mind. I went from making like 300-400k sl per hour pre-update in a tornado base bombing with an average of 1 or 2 kills per match, to getting about 50-100k sl per hour and fewer kills because I spend less time active in the air, instead spending that time travelling point A to point B so I can rearm.
@@evangalinsky2499 it took me 3 days to get the mig29 while playing at least 7 hours a day getting a minimum of 1 kill a game ussually 2, and got bonus rp from using the jet right behind it and from spading it. That's to much.
Pinning this because I feel I may not have made it clear enough that I am not against bigger teams / larger maps; I just do not like the current implementation of the bigger teams / larger maps. The main issue is that these maps play out almost the exact same way as the smaller maps, as all the objectives are in the same location. Join the Brick Squad Discord server: discord.gg/wzw3C4HBsJ
THEY SHOULD add SWITCH button that would allow you To switch between big and small maps so that those who fly slower planes jets will have at least some chance to fight like A10A late
YES i agree with the change you have proposed in the video, it basically fixes out most issues stated in the video while keeping the changes made. ground attackers being able to spawn closer is something that has to happen or without making everybody converge into one locate maybe move the bomb targets and ground units to a more corner of the map with the attacker airfields, so that they have more time to kill ai units and get bases annnd the fighters can go straight to the opposing airfield or go for the ground attackers [their choice basically] and also the refuelling the base which fighters cant spawn but rearm at is also a good idea only issue is anti air affecting the centre of the map but they can offcentre that airfield. [as you said, overall I do think gaijin made a good change, it just needs more changes]. edit* whoops I guess you mentioned everything I just said, typed this comment in the middles of the video
That is indeed a big part of the problem. At top tier (11.3+) these maps are fine. But anything subsonic or small fuel load is now a lot less fun to play.
@@WalvisYT Yeah been getting my ass handed to me in the Hunter F6 even before.. now I can barely get ot the battle have one fight and then go back with my 14 minutes of full fuel tanks.
@@WalvisYT this update also made F104s A and C really fucking viable because you can get so much more energy while subsonic jets are slowly making their ways over to the center fighting area
Being able to bomb the refueling airfield would add more interesting strategical aspects to the game and a whole more point to use bombers. Something like bombing those fields would disable them for 5 minutes. Also, allowing people to change planes once they landed should be a thing, but this could only happen at the back airfield, or the airfield they taken off from.
What's crazy is that the type of map that you suggested at the end of your video is exactly how were some of the old ARB maps (back when that game mode was named Historical Battle and featured historical match-ups). In particular the Pacific maps. They were big with several carriers and airfields (some of which could be captured from enemy team depending of how the ground and naval AI units were doing) and different objectives (fleets, cargos, bases, ground units, fortifications, etc.) scattered around the whole map, not in only one centered area were attackers and bombers get butchered like today. Those maps and objectives gave a purpose to all kind of airplanes (even floatplanes and torpedo-bombers), made battles more entertaining for every kind of player and a lot less repetitive overall. Gaijin give us back the War Thunder 2013 experience please!
I have been enjoying the larger map sizes in the 9.0+ range, even though I thought I'd prefer fewer players rather than more. Totally agree with your "solution" for the new problems that have arisen from the map size increase.
bigger maps and bigger teams is not bad, the issue is the battle area is still the same size. Spread targets out more so attackers have something to do else than die.
The last map design looks really good! Now if only there was a game mode that would fit that design perfectly; giving players a longer match, let a player play even after they get shot down after flying towards the enemy for 6 minutes, and would lead to a greater diffusion of players across the map...
I think a better thing it complain about isn’t the a-10, but the many many subsonics and ww2 jest that have to deal with this layout… and the fact that many people are gonna use this to justify all aspects and stuff of that sort at a low tier bc “just run away lol it’s just a skill issue lol”- average Su-25k/A6e/a-10/any low tier missile slinger low speed attack aircraft that everyone uses as a fighter because it’s blatantly op and unfun for the 170+ jets without flares that can face the all aspect 30g missiles
The problem is : in my LIm-5P i get those map and i need top fly 5 min to get to AO then i get faster jet than me that i can't catch ground target that i can't destroy and i have no missile nor flares nor bomb so i just can't do anything but fly around then go back to base to j out
There is only one path for Air RB now and it is Enduring Confrontation (and proper EC, not just those stupid huge maps we have on the same TDM mode)...
As a tornado main, I find these maps a lot more entertaining, in the f3 I can get in position for superTEMP slinging, and in the gr.1 I can take time getting to a base without a mig29 b-lining for me. I just hope the bases were more spread.
This is like the most half assed attempt I've seen from Gaijin to actually implement what the community have asked for, for years. But no RB-EC will never happen because and I quote "MuH qUEuE TiMeS!!!"
Very well thought video! I like your idea and i mostly agree with you... Although next possible change is gonna be in a few years, knowing how gaijin makes things...
The most underrated thing about these large maps is the terrain. Personally I find flat maps boring and I like the mountains we have been given, it adds a more interesting tactical aspect along with the extra space.
I did notice that I was running out of fuel with more players left, running out of ammo seemingly more often, and waiting much longer for matches to end. Now I know why. I do like the larger space though.
They should move the bomb points to be a bit more spread out to give bombers a chance, also the huge maps are not limited to jets as I get it on 5.3 props semi often
Oh the main problem is: If you do not have BVR missiles, this turns into a 5 minutes agonizing flyup to the middle where you can actually get points, staying low so you do not get R24'd.
Gaijin should just take the sim/ec gamemode and take the tank rb respawn system, and add more airfields that are a litle more spread out and closer to the middle of the map
Something I feel could help a bit is not only the 2 AF thing (I think 6.o has a lot of them, a long and a short one iirc), but also: 1. Place Helipads for VTOL to land in too, and "justify" attack helis as air tsrgets instead of having Sabre's in the middle of an F-14/F-16/MiG-29 game) 2. Spread EVRYTHING out a bit. Make CAS targets closer to the AF's, and get a limit of players to spawn from every location. Hell, let VTOLs take off from Helipads and get a proximity advantage againat afterburning planes. Make it more than JUST a gimmick, make it a mechanic that is attractice to fly the Harriers, or any future VTOL plane. The fact we get cool tech to play around with and some we consider revolutionary in the real world mean NOTHING in-game just shouldn't happen. The Harriers only had a month of "dominance" and it wasn't even due to VTOL, it was the OP SRAAMS.
These are great for 11.0+. I’ve enjoyed actually playing a more accurate BVR experience. These maps need to get changed a lot. Wider objectives. Maybe more rewarding ones closer to the enemy start AF. The biggest thing would be forward airfields to land at like said in the video. This might also allow for dedicated heavy bomber trees to start getting new planes again. Overall I’ve enjoyed the update with my already spaded 11.7s and 12.0s, but look the a-10 once and I won’t do that again.
I believe many of us expected Gaijin to make these mistakes when making the maps bigger. It's just just so predictable with Gaijin and their half assed solutions. Same as with the F-16 flight model and many other changes they made within probably something like the last 7 years.
Agree 100%. The thing is ARB is based around 16 gopnicks flying into another 16 gopnicks trying to wipe the red team. There's nothing to do besides that, because no matter how many bases\ground units you guys have obilitrated it always comes down to just wiping out the red team. From my perspective the best option for ARB would be adding respawn mechanics + air supperiority points to control and gain poiints (ye, like in GRB) + ground points that can be conquired by ground AI units IF you clear the way for them. -> In this scenario it won't be all about killing reds flying in the air, it'll come to: who can cap more points and drain enemie team out of tickets, like how GRB or games like battlefield work. I believe this si what we need. Also for Gaijin it's going to be way more profitable then maintaining the current state of ARB. Why? Cos you need new slots, crews and jets to play these battles properly. -> That'll make ppl to buy GE a lot more often + keep in mind all jets in top tier are expensive as f. So it's win-win situation for everyone.
Another good thing about the new maps is that there is more "terrain" to them. That's not visible when just viewing the thumbnails of the map screen. Most of the small maps were mostly flat with the distinction being the angles that the airfields were facing. Most of the newer big maps have mountains and valleys or ravines that you can dive into if you are intent on terrain masking to hide from radar. I've caught a number of F-14's with their pants down by slipping past their radar through a mountain pass before ambushing them from below.
When I get large maps on the Air RB, I leave the game straight away, because I don't have the patience to fly for 10 or 15 minutes without any kind of action. With these big maps, I lost interest in Air RB
I agree with you, to some extent I want to old style map(small and 12v12) to be added back. And the players given the option of : Long game(16v16 large map) or Short game(12v12 small map). And the Longer version having AT THE VERY LEAST the changes you mentioned
They believed that simple low effort solutions could solve a complex variety of issues, saving a few hamsters from overworking in the meantime... Why put actual effort to make the game better when you can just add a premium top tier and profit?
I agree with you 100%. Problem is that we can give gaijin the most detailed feedback, they will look at some numbers on a spreadsheet and do whatever they want, ignoring everything that we are saying.
That new map idea around 5:40 is in my opinion very good 👍 You should try to contact gaijin with that concept, maybe they'll listen :D Those changes could increase the number (currently 0) of real, good dogfights, because even though we have these MiG-29's and F-16's, we can't show their greatest perforcmances in dogfights, because the fights will end after one turn when someone else kills you. If this new concept would be added, it would also require more skill with these new planes, when you actually have to survive in a dogfight and not just expect your team to come and 7v1 your enemy.
Gaijin never listens. They just look at stat trackers for the game, not your personal stats, but more server oriented stuff. So if matches too short or skilled players to dominating etc. That is when they change stuff.
I agree with most of your ideas but, think foward operating Air bases (Runnways) will either be abused for Anti-Air coverage for friendly Jets or be the grave yard for those who actually land on there. But i also agree that it is annoying to fly back for 5+ min to the "Main" Air base. I think it would be an interesting idea to make them something your ground troops be able to capture... so you have a good reason to defend/attack them. And make multiple Ground Plattons that do that not just 1... so you could have more chances
I think one of the things that would be nice is increased and spread out ground targets so being a ground attack aircraft is more of an option. Closer additional bases would also be nice to see to reduce RTB time to get back in the fight
I was really enjoying the big maps before the player increase. For that small period of time I had more small engagements than ever before in top tier, now it's a big furball again.
Warthunder is full of lovely people in the community that willing to help to make the game better with no extra cost, but gaijin always said "haha no, but look at this shiny premium aircraft tho" is so heartbreaking because i genuinely wanted for this game to be great
I’ve been averaging 2 to 3 kills per game in these larger maps, but when I seldom get the small, regular maps, it’s a cluster fuck of a game with that many people and I average maybe a kill then end up dying. You definitely notice the aerial battle being more spread out regardless of the actual battlefield being the same size. The downside of these larger maps is players now have way more room to hide, jet matches take the full 25 minutes to complete (when most of us played jets bc of its fast pace nature compared to props), and the stupid amount of time it takes just to rearm and refuel. It’s not a positive change but it has positive intentions. I definitely don’t want to constantly see EC maps bc those are even worse at 9.0, where I mainly play, but we’ll see
I love your idea on the improved air RB .A good addition would be not having any AA on the closer airfields. Meaning quick jets can flank without worrying about getting shot down in the missile of the map. If you want to re-arm closer, do it at your own risk, or head back to your AF for a much safer re-arm. But you won’t get back into battle and help your teammates quicker. Oh man. If a person who actually played the game was in charge of war thunder decisions. The game would be so much better.
Most of the things u said i totally agree bc i have been saying those same things to my friends before i have watched this, but the extra airfield on is such a briliant idea bc if the enemy doesn't use a blind hunt or avenger they cannot know in which one u are
If they want to keep the bigger maps, they should limit them to 10.7/11.0 or above. Maybe it should also be time for them to try a top-tier bomber/attacker PVE mode, like heli PVE.
These changes are needed, however gaijin would just put a middle finger up and tell you to sod off whilst making it worst. Just like what they did to tims
Consistent pool of bigger maps is a very healthy change and pre introduction of 16v16 arb was honestly enjoyable, now its a missile clusterfuck that shouldve been introduced to even bigger - EC maps instead
About 4 years ago Gaijin posted a topic in the forums from the Devs asking for recommendations from the player base on how to improve air RB. I made these very suggestions then.
That's basically all Gaijin would have to do to make the bigger maps good, really. I still think they were a good addition, just wish I was only getting them at like 11.0 and up...
Yeah I played here on propeller plane. It took eternity to spot enemy. When you are out of ammo it took another eternity to return base and come back. But it's one + you can fly to space when u climb :)
Agreed. I spent like 100 AUD on a freaking Su-25K and after that gaijin makes an update so I have to wait a huge portion of the game travelling there (and back if I survive) in a, mind you, subsonic, close-attack low speed jet…
The best thing is: for some reason even prop planes get these maps. It was already a problem when they introduced the canyon map but its even worse now. I mean like what do you expect a match to be like when Im put onto a jet map with my 6.0 or sometimes 5.0 bomber? right, I fly for ten minutes and get annihalated by some fighter
Gaijin seems to not understand that a bigger map requires to be filled with more ground targets, bases and so on and not be left empy. But i guess that would mean easier grinding and Gaijin doesn't like that. Come on, i can't play in these new EC maps with only 5 bases and 2-3 columns of armored targets to bomb while being much bigger than normal maps that have 4 bases, armored columns and also a lot of soft targets like howitzers and AA.
The thing is this si a paradox, nobody knows exactly how to fix the problem of furballs and quick matches without sacrificing one aspect of gameplay in the match, all that gain can do is to implement specific changes to the maps to see the effect of the games so they can add more improvements after that
I would absolutely love if they gave us more targets, and optional objectives throughout the entire map, make it a living active battlefield so it feels like we are actually fighting in a war. Randomness can be just as much fun, if not more fun than doing the same thing every time for YEARS
The bigest fun is to been spawned on this map while ya flying some prehistoric jet crap from late 40s with top speed of 800 kmh, lmao, it take about 10 minutes to just reach the battlefield
Agree with absolutely everything you said 1000% word for word. I actually made a few comments on the forums on the day of the changes and got spanked by the players for saying what you said in the video. The majority thinks having this 16v16 flustrecluck is a good thing and that big maps are big bad. Big map = good. Now spread out objectives. Give more objectives, more airfields, more time and more tickets. We basically reinvented AIR RB EC from 2018. Alternatively I am a big advocate for the original small maps with 4v4 teams. But from my own long experience with Garbajin, this will never happen. And if it does, it will be 1 step forward and 5 steps back as always.
It was my first time playing since the patch. Decided to fly the a10 first and got this map. The entire battle was literally over before I even got to the combat zone. Couldnt even kill any ground targets before the game ended. Great map
easiest fix is to add at minimum 2 more bases per side and take all the ground units and bases and scatter them across the entire map instead of having the same 2km² area where everyone dies in a clusterfuck
The map you described at the end looks literally fucking perfect how the hell can one random dude on TH-cam design a map 100x better than a full as fucking dev team
Great analysis m8. In reality all they did and why is: They enabled F14, F16 Yak 141 and Mig 29 to get kills at BVR. But Shit on all Non BVR vehicles. You can Lawndart of course to avoid Radar but that just means 32 Planes crashing at each other at around Mach 1.
Currently the only thing that is a noticable improvement over the smaller maps is people being unable to run/camp base as quickly. Adding more instakill bubbles is definantly not the play, if a forward airfield is wanted then it needs to not have that. Adding an extra airfield in the back that still has SAMs/AAA is okay.
Instant nope on the forward airfield proposal. With how fast top tiers are, you'll end up in AA range if you turn the wrong way once. Maybe they could have AA disabled, idk
I've said for many years that the issue with War Thunder and it's updates is it adds vehicles but doesn't seem to add anything to change, or improve gameplay in terms of matches. There used to be features in WT that made RB feel a bit more dynamic yet they removed them. Why can't we have something to appease both people who want to fly fighters and those who want to play bombers.
I think the solution to top tier is less people per match. Why? For larger maps, like in EC, its fine because everyone scatters and you're less likely to get beamed by 4 different radars all shooting SARH missiles, but for smaller maps you just have too many enemies to face against as one person. And yeah it's supposed to be a team game, but as I stated before you just have too many BVR pings to realistically defend against in the best scenarios and once you get into a furball match there's so many all aspect missiles flying around that you can't keep your head on straight from constantly C-keying around to make sure there isn't 3 jets on your ass all firing 9Ls/R60Ms at you(not to mention the spotting system is still broken so sometimes people, even right in front of you you SEE, just disappear and you have no clue if a missile is coming at you). Having 12 v 12 matches in 11.0+ games just is a massive pain to survive. Sure you get maybe one or two kills if you're lucky but a majority of the time I find its one or two people going 3-5 kills on either side and then the match ends. Sometimes for me it feels like a better idea to just wait on the airfield for the fighting to start and then take off because of the BVR spam
Cannot express how much I agree with this, if anything then keep the maps, even tho they should be reverted.. but for the love of God, revert the 16v16 BS.. it there is a player count per team change that we need, it is a DEcrease, not increase, I would be fine with just 8v8s, even 6v6s for 9.3+ not this 32 players in one match, it is absolutely unmanageable to even reliably keep yourself alive, regardless of what u are flying, let alone to plan attacks without 70%+ death chance.. they better revert those changes asap
I hate this change and it made me stop playing ARB since it way more boring, just waiting to get into a fight doing nothing and you get les RP. Now top tier is like props, the 1st 5 min you don't even need to play.
Overall this is a massive improvement, the altitudes where fights happen are far more realistic. Also, For the Mig29 taking 5 minutes to rearm, its taking forever to get back because your flying back too low. go full burner at a 20 degree climb (assuming you have the fuel) and climb to at least 6000M, and you will be able to fly at like mach 1.5+ easily. When you get within a few KM of the airfield just airbrake and nose down to control your speed and descent.
"Overall this is a massive improvement" I could not disagree more. For top tier? Sure! For 9.0? No, absolutely not. If these maps were limited to top tier (11.3+) it would be absolutely fine. Also, cramming more people onto effectively the same fighting area or even literally some of the smaller maps has done nothing to improve the experience.
I think these changes are overall a step in the right direction. Bigger teams are good, they reward smarter players. Yes the maps need to be spread more out, the most annoying thing is that the solution is ALREADY IN THE GAME. JUST MAKE TOP TIER AIR ENDURING CONFRONTION. Literally is what you suggested in the end
Yes, sim EC is quite literally what I am talking about. That also makes me believe it shouldn't be super hard for Gaijin to implement changes like these.
@@WalvisYT whats your opinion on the currect AIR RB EC maps and missions, ive never had a game go long enough for me to land and get back to a fight
@@rancorusia Honestly I find those maps too big. I think in terms of actual map size (AF to AF) of these newer maps is rather good. Late game on those massive EC maps feels like finding a needle in a haystack, even with radar it can take a while before you find the last enemy.
@@WalvisYT This is what I've been asking for, for so fucking long. The fact that most games end the same way is irritable beyond belief. Chasing the last few enemy players around a larger map has made the game unplayable for me. My opinion is that they should scrap the old game modes as they were placeholder to begin with and focus on EC type game modes, as they will allow the developers to actually develop the game. Instead of puking out as many vehicles as they can for us to throw our wallets and time at... We all know Warthunder in its current state does not justify the amount of time and money we spend on it. Its never fun enough. This game needs major changes if it ever wants to be the game we all want.
@@keyboardfingers4092 damn straight, couldn’t have said it better myself
Bro just described all my problems with the sky guardians update. Subbed
I've been saying forever that Enduring Confrontation should be its own game mode. Getting stuck in an EC Map flying an strike aircraft/bomber is just a guaranteed 10 minute flight to certain death, and its a nightmare for fighters when the last enemy on a team decides to play chicken forcing someone to waste an order, which usually doesn't last long enough to chase down the target given the distance. The slightly larger regular maps are fine, though still a major pain for prop boys and other subtonics. The grind in this game is so much of a slog already, its less about meme neuron activation than it is spending multiple irl years to grind a tree to top teir, and that's if you're playing multiple hours every day. Any further delay added to that slog is just a slap in the face to the community which is why its generating backlash. Imagine if they did this shit in ground RB, adding 5-10 minutes to every single match.
They don't have to do that to ground RB. Ground RB you can spend 10 minutes and barely squeak out a win at 10.0-11.0, and all the while you only get 5k RP. If you get a cap point and camp the enemy spawn (because maybe you want to prove you can't play fair or that you are a loser) then you might get 10k RP. Ground RB is already a waste of time.
I think people constantly miss the point: Gaijin is not making a game for you to play. They're trying to milk your bank account, and the way they do this is subtly under the guise of making a game. That is not the same thing. The longer they can slow down your grind, the longer they can milk you for premium time (at the very least, or premium vehicles or using gold for unlocks on top of that).
People who play for free actually help increase those profits, whether you believe it or not, it is true. Children who rush home from school every day to grind 7 hours a night to get to top tier, actually influence people with full time jobs to spend money, just to be able to compete with people who are already fully spaded at 12.0. Those people have jobs and likely have families in most cases, or at the very least social lives, so there is no way someone can compete in a game with a child that has none of that.
Free to play is one the best unregulated money making schemes, and people constantly discount Gaijin for doing something that makes the game less fun, when in reality they're really trying to make you pay more money (and succeeding at it).
premium time makes it slightly more bearable
"Getting stuck in an EC Map flying an strike aircraft/bomber is just a guaranteed 10 minute flight to certain death" pretty much sums up my entire experience with this update, especially if the fighters can't get to your location fast enough and you are there stuck with interceptors trying to shoot you down, it's especially hard when it's pretty much a guarantee that as a bomber your engine is the enemies primary target, and even if you manage to survive that, the distance between the combat zone to the airfield is a pain to fly, cause with the increase distance it's a guarantee that you are dead by either a secondary enemy or your plane succumbing to it's damages and crash
The other problem with bigger maps is that the vehicles are Gepards and such now, being sniped by SPAA while dogfighting is incredibly frustrating also the fact HE is broken does not help with actually trying to take out these ground units. This patch has put AirRB into such a mess its quite amazing how they can do this with a handful so small changes and absolutely destroy a game mode.
They were already gepards and such on many of the smaller maps before this patch (sometimes even at the totally wrong br, shooting down tier 3 props)
They fixed HE bro
@@Eonymia Gaijin has some weird AAA fetish in AirRB... I remeber back in the day when random AAA guided by hand of god will hit you when you are at 4km altitude going 500kph in your prop.
I guess it would make sense for a properly developed EC match as in real life you also wouldn't start a dogfight in accurate AA range.😅
I do understand that it is frustrating though.
Honestly every change you made is something I would belive to be for the best and i cannot believe that gaijin is missing a map designer after 7+ years of this game existence. I think they should add a ec game mode for ARB that you can respawn that would be a blast since jet bombers and attackers would actually have an impact for the win.
The problem is if they´d add RB EC they´d nerf the hell out of it in terms of RP/SL-gain because it would remove the suffering and grind. See what they did with Heli EC, first you get farmed by prem helis but you could still get decent RP and SL despite being farmed, now you get maybe a fraction of that at best. Not to discourage the idea, I liked RB EC but we all know GJ all too well and how that will end.
@@venusflytrap2622 well in ARB premiums usually arent the best except some broken ones but id say itll be fine since with my mig 21 smt talismaned and with premium account i get around 300k rp every hour not counting q times or loading time. My matches last 5 minutes on average and i make ~25k rp almost every match so if we exclude q times and loading times its 300k rp so an arb ec that last 30minutes to 1hour long itll be fine since you can lose a lot of sl if the aircraft is expensive and you die a lot.
and it will give purpose to attack and bomber planes
Worth noting that ticket count also has not been changed to compensate for bigger teams. So on certain maps games will end even quicker than before because of an American team that is 75% ground attack aircraft.
Yes, this is indeed a problem as well.
Players: Bring back EC
Gaijin: *Puts EC maps into RB*
Players: Not what we meant
Gaijin: *Pika face*
We asked for ec, meaning both map and a timer, not only maps
EC is a great game mode for SIM and when they had a true EC ARB. But those game modes weren't one life TDM style. Playing EC with one life sucks but if they let you respawn it'd be alot better.
I don’t know what y’all are on about, i’m on the player side
We asked for EC, we got E X T E N D E D standard ARB map. This aint it.
These are very good ideas for changes but i think Gaijin really needs to split ARB into two modes - small map, small teams, no respawns and large maps, large team, respawns (EC). These half measures please nobody.
This change gaijin just did is actually even worse for EVERYONE. People who didn't want big map, well shit. People who wanted bigger map (for the reason to make fights more spread out instead of braindead mindless swarm), well shit.
Literally pleases nobody, and pisses everyone. People who play slow plane like A10 can't actually function as a ground strike. It's actually worse because more clusterfucks are happening in the same area. People who grind fighters will suffer more because you kill one, and you die because there's too many to keep track of. People who want to bomb bases, now have to compete with more people for the same reward and less chance of managing to nib a base. Absolute bonker.
@@triparadox.c Facts spoken. Also sucks when your entire team dies to the busted R-27ER's and you are a 1v11. I don't think I've ever had a ratio of players that bad ever
I'd love this, i like playing bombers but if you only get one life then you're just going to die and maybe get a base. It'd give higher tier bombers a purpose when currently we have these cool planes like the Canberra (one of my favourite planes) being more or less pointless to have in the game
Idea: Spread out the objectives again, and add 2 runways per team where half of each team is randomly assigned to each. Also add 6 bases per team. And extend the match length.
Edit: nm you litteraly just said that.
Your suggestions on how to fix it are great, bur something else worth adding is a bit more extra time (like 5 minutes or so), and stopping the tickets from obliterating themselves at the rapid rate they do currently.
Also I love these intros lol.
I got one of these huge maps last night at 5.7 in an AU-1 prop. It was an auto nope for me. I apologized to my team, landed and J'd out. I would rather eat the 6-8 min crew lock than spend all that time just flying straight.
I honestly love you bro. You’re the only content creator I’ve personally seen speak out about these god forsaken changes with an open mind. I went from making like 300-400k sl per hour pre-update in a tornado base bombing with an average of 1 or 2 kills per match, to getting about 50-100k sl per hour and fewer kills because I spend less time active in the air, instead spending that time travelling point A to point B so I can rearm.
I think they did it on purpose to make grinding take longer, gaijin is just so greedy im about ready to quit because its just getting worse and worse.
Which is interesting because as a fighter main my SL and RP per hour went up due to increased time spent in matches.
@@theapexdragon5010 I started playing low tier ground and actually enjoyed this game for the first time in a while lol
@@theapexdragon5010 it literally isn't even that bad just git gud and the grind goes away quite quickly
@@evangalinsky2499 it took me 3 days to get the mig29 while playing at least 7 hours a day getting a minimum of 1 kill a game ussually 2, and got bonus rp from using the jet right behind it and from spading it. That's to much.
I just hope as we get more advance radars and missiles, we get datalinks and AI AWACS (this last one could be a fun objective).
Objective shoot down the enemy AWACS? You're gonna get half enemy team rushing towards it to try and get an advantage lol
Pinning this because I feel I may not have made it clear enough that I am not against bigger teams / larger maps; I just do not like the current implementation of the bigger teams / larger maps. The main issue is that these maps play out almost the exact same way as the smaller maps, as all the objectives are in the same location.
Join the Brick Squad Discord server: discord.gg/wzw3C4HBsJ
im the 🤓 that disagrees
I prefer ground RB where we can shoot each other from our spawns in the first 30 seconds, its fun!
THEY SHOULD add SWITCH button that would allow you To switch between big and small maps so that those who fly slower planes jets will have at least some chance to fight like A10A late
YES i agree with the change you have proposed in the video, it basically fixes out most issues stated in the video while keeping the changes made. ground attackers being able to spawn closer is something that has to happen or without making everybody converge into one locate maybe move the bomb targets and ground units to a more corner of the map with the attacker airfields, so that they have more time to kill ai units and get bases annnd the fighters can go straight to the opposing airfield or go for the ground attackers [their choice basically] and also the refuelling the base which fighters cant spawn but rearm at is also a good idea only issue is anti air affecting the centre of the map but they can offcentre that airfield.
[as you said, overall I do think gaijin made a good change, it just needs more changes].
edit* whoops I guess you mentioned everything I just said, typed this comment in the middles of the video
@@diprosla592 nah thats just bad for the game, sure the playerbase is growing but its risky and would basically lead to higher load times
These are great changes tbh, the only big problem is the fact that we get these maps in ww2 propeller planes and early jets.
That is indeed a big part of the problem. At top tier (11.3+) these maps are fine. But anything subsonic or small fuel load is now a lot less fun to play.
@@WalvisYT Yeah been getting my ass handed to me in the Hunter F6 even before.. now I can barely get ot the battle have one fight and then go back with my 14 minutes of full fuel tanks.
@@Sachy_ If only they could figure out how to attach drop tanks to a Hunter... oh wait, you got to be Germany to get them. -_-
Getting the Canyon map in a 4.7 Zero = auto return to hanger
@@WalvisYT this update also made F104s A and C really fucking viable because you can get so much more energy while subsonic jets are slowly making their ways over to the center fighting area
Being able to bomb the refueling airfield would add more interesting strategical aspects to the game and a whole more point to use bombers.
Something like bombing those fields would disable them for 5 minutes. Also, allowing people to change planes once they landed should be a thing, but this could only happen at the back airfield, or the airfield they taken off from.
What's crazy is that the type of map that you suggested at the end of your video is exactly how were some of the old ARB maps (back when that game mode was named Historical Battle and featured historical match-ups). In particular the Pacific maps. They were big with several carriers and airfields (some of which could be captured from enemy team depending of how the ground and naval AI units were doing) and different objectives (fleets, cargos, bases, ground units, fortifications, etc.) scattered around the whole map, not in only one centered area were attackers and bombers get butchered like today.
Those maps and objectives gave a purpose to all kind of airplanes (even floatplanes and torpedo-bombers), made battles more entertaining for every kind of player and a lot less repetitive overall.
Gaijin give us back the War Thunder 2013 experience please!
Bro my draken doesn't have enough fuel for these maps
I have been enjoying the larger map sizes in the 9.0+ range, even though I thought I'd prefer fewer players rather than more. Totally agree with your "solution" for the new problems that have arisen from the map size increase.
bigger maps and bigger teams is not bad, the issue is the battle area is still the same size. Spread targets out more so attackers have something to do else than die.
The last map design looks really good! Now if only there was a game mode that would fit that design perfectly; giving players a longer match, let a player play even after they get shot down after flying towards the enemy for 6 minutes, and would lead to a greater diffusion of players across the map...
Gaijin is so funny man, what the game needs is 5 vs 5 or 7 vs 7. Theres no point in bigger maps if we still have a shit show in the midle
I think a better thing it complain about isn’t the a-10, but the many many subsonics and ww2 jest that have to deal with this layout… and the fact that many people are gonna use this to justify all aspects and stuff of that sort at a low tier bc “just run away lol it’s just a skill issue lol”- average Su-25k/A6e/a-10/any low tier missile slinger low speed attack aircraft that everyone uses as a fighter because it’s blatantly op and unfun for the 170+ jets without flares that can face the all aspect 30g missiles
I used the A-10 as an example in this video because its a very slow jet everybody knows. The same is true for the CL-13 or other non-aft jet honestly.
The problem is : in my LIm-5P i get those map and i need top fly 5 min to get to AO then i get faster jet than me that i can't catch ground target that i can't destroy and i have no missile nor flares nor bomb so i just can't do anything but fly around then go back to base to j out
There is only one path for Air RB now and it is Enduring Confrontation (and proper EC, not just those stupid huge maps we have on the same TDM mode)...
i just want massive maps that last a long time and tankers in the air
As a tornado main, I find these maps a lot more entertaining, in the f3 I can get in position for superTEMP slinging, and in the gr.1 I can take time getting to a base without a mig29 b-lining for me. I just hope the bases were more spread.
They should add frontline airfields for rearming tho.
This is like the most half assed attempt I've seen from Gaijin to actually implement what the community have asked for, for years. But no RB-EC will never happen because and I quote "MuH qUEuE TiMeS!!!"
Very good design analysis, keep it up!
Very well thought video! I like your idea and i mostly agree with you... Although next possible change is gonna be in a few years, knowing how gaijin makes things...
Actual reason for map change. Gajin: How do we nerf skilled players. We move the airports further away so they need more time to RTB.
The most underrated thing about these large maps is the terrain. Personally I find flat maps boring and I like the mountains we have been given, it adds a more interesting tactical aspect along with the extra space.
I did notice that I was running out of fuel with more players left, running out of ammo seemingly more often, and waiting much longer for matches to end. Now I know why. I do like the larger space though.
They should move the bomb points to be a bit more spread out to give bombers a chance, also the huge maps are not limited to jets as I get it on 5.3 props semi often
Oh the main problem is:
If you do not have BVR missiles, this turns into a 5 minutes agonizing flyup to the middle where you can actually get points, staying low so you do not get R24'd.
viggen experience
@@zahnatom Mig 21 experience.
Spading the german 21 bis SAU has been one of the most PAINFUL experiences in my entire life.
@@Squeaky_Ben the bis sau at least has a fun flight model
@@zahnatom I wouldn't call "dump speed like a slug thrown at concrete" fun tbh.
@@Squeaky_Ben idk maybe i just really like the mig 21 flight model
Gaijin should just take the sim/ec gamemode and take the tank rb respawn system, and add more airfields that are a litle more spread out and closer to the middle of the map
Gaijin said they wont add EC for ARB...i kind know why...
I want to have this as an experimental event so bad.
They expand the map but keep all the ground AIs and planes going all in the middle. Basically useless. But now, we have 4 extra players.
I agree. I fly A-10 and this is real pain for me now, half of the match I just flying to the battle zone.
Something I feel could help a bit is not only the 2 AF thing (I think 6.o has a lot of them, a long and a short one iirc), but also:
1. Place Helipads for VTOL to land in too, and "justify" attack helis as air tsrgets instead of having Sabre's in the middle of an F-14/F-16/MiG-29 game)
2. Spread EVRYTHING out a bit. Make CAS targets closer to the AF's, and get a limit of players to spawn from every location.
Hell, let VTOLs take off from Helipads and get a proximity advantage againat afterburning planes. Make it more than JUST a gimmick, make it a mechanic that is attractice to fly the Harriers, or any future VTOL plane.
The fact we get cool tech to play around with and some we consider revolutionary in the real world mean NOTHING in-game just shouldn't happen. The Harriers only had a month of "dominance" and it wasn't even due to VTOL, it was the OP SRAAMS.
These are great for 11.0+. I’ve enjoyed actually playing a more accurate BVR experience. These maps need to get changed a lot. Wider objectives. Maybe more rewarding ones closer to the enemy start AF. The biggest thing would be forward airfields to land at like said in the video. This might also allow for dedicated heavy bomber trees to start getting new planes again. Overall I’ve enjoyed the update with my already spaded 11.7s and 12.0s, but look the a-10 once and I won’t do that again.
AND another issue is the 25 minute time limit per match, this should 100% be changed for large maps, imo it should be up to 40-45min
I believe many of us expected Gaijin to make these mistakes when making the maps bigger. It's just just so predictable with Gaijin and their half assed solutions. Same as with the F-16 flight model and many other changes they made within probably something like the last 7 years.
Agree 100%. The thing is ARB is based around 16 gopnicks flying into another 16 gopnicks trying to wipe the red team. There's nothing to do besides that, because no matter how many bases\ground units you guys have obilitrated it always comes down to just wiping out the red team.
From my perspective the best option for ARB would be adding respawn mechanics + air supperiority points to control and gain poiints (ye, like in GRB) + ground points that can be conquired by ground AI units IF you clear the way for them. -> In this scenario it won't be all about killing reds flying in the air, it'll come to: who can cap more points and drain enemie team out of tickets, like how GRB or games like battlefield work. I believe this si what we need.
Also for Gaijin it's going to be way more profitable then maintaining the current state of ARB.
Why? Cos you need new slots, crews and jets to play these battles properly. -> That'll make ppl to buy GE a lot more often + keep in mind all jets in top tier are expensive as f.
So it's win-win situation for everyone.
It's called "Air Realistic Battle"
I'm still trying to figure out where tf gaijin did their research to call a air crowded chaos "Realistic"
Add a second runway closer to the objectives for bombers and attack aircraft like Heli’s have im ground RB
Another good thing about the new maps is that there is more "terrain" to them. That's not visible when just viewing the thumbnails of the map screen. Most of the small maps were mostly flat with the distinction being the angles that the airfields were facing. Most of the newer big maps have mountains and valleys or ravines that you can dive into if you are intent on terrain masking to hide from radar. I've caught a number of F-14's with their pants down by slipping past their radar through a mountain pass before ambushing them from below.
This. The Pyrenees map is actually well made IMO because it forces some kind of strategy and gives chance to dodge radar missles
Yes!!! this is so right! everyone was saying that the bigger maps fix the furball issue or that more players means more kills but it doesn't!
When I get large maps on the Air RB, I leave the game straight away, because I don't have the patience to fly for 10 or 15 minutes without any kind of action.
With these big maps, I lost interest in Air RB
Good change, and i did not even noticed. Sny change kicking a10 and su25 = good change. More planes good for props
I agree with you, to some extent
I want to old style map(small and 12v12) to be added back. And the players given the option of : Long game(16v16 large map) or Short game(12v12 small map).
And the Longer version having AT THE VERY LEAST the changes you mentioned
I like the idea of adding more bases, yeah spread everything out so there isn't one point everyone will rush too
They believed that simple low effort solutions could solve a complex variety of issues, saving a few hamsters from overworking in the meantime...
Why put actual effort to make the game better when you can just add a premium top tier and profit?
I agree with you 100%. Problem is that we can give gaijin the most detailed feedback, they will look at some numbers on a spreadsheet and do whatever they want, ignoring everything that we are saying.
That new map idea around 5:40 is in my opinion very good 👍 You should try to contact gaijin with that concept, maybe they'll listen :D Those changes could increase the number (currently 0) of real, good dogfights, because even though we have these MiG-29's and F-16's, we can't show their greatest perforcmances in dogfights, because the fights will end after one turn when someone else kills you. If this new concept would be added, it would also require more skill with these new planes, when you actually have to survive in a dogfight and not just expect your team to come and 7v1 your enemy.
Gaijin never listens. They just look at stat trackers for the game, not your personal stats, but more server oriented stuff. So if matches too short or skilled players to dominating etc. That is when they change stuff.
I agree with most of your ideas but, think foward operating Air bases (Runnways) will either be abused for Anti-Air coverage for friendly Jets or be the grave yard for those who actually land on there. But i also agree that it is annoying to fly back for 5+ min to the "Main" Air base. I think it would be an interesting idea to make them something your ground troops be able to capture... so you have a good reason to defend/attack them. And make multiple Ground Plattons that do that not just 1... so you could have more chances
I think one of the things that would be nice is increased and spread out ground targets so being a ground attack aircraft is more of an option. Closer additional bases would also be nice to see to reduce RTB time to get back in the fight
Man I remember watching your simple planes tutorials now I am watching you do Warthunder content. Good content both back and now.
I was really enjoying the big maps before the player increase. For that small period of time I had more small engagements than ever before in top tier, now it's a big furball again.
I would love the maps you made
They seem really good for all players
Warthunder is full of lovely people in the community that willing to help to make the game better with no extra cost, but gaijin always said "haha no, but look at this shiny premium aircraft tho" is so heartbreaking because i genuinely wanted for this game to be great
Had a lot of fun in the F5E on these "bigger" maps, with harrier... Not so much.
I’ve been averaging 2 to 3 kills per game in these larger maps, but when I seldom get the small, regular maps, it’s a cluster fuck of a game with that many people and I average maybe a kill then end up dying. You definitely notice the aerial battle being more spread out regardless of the actual battlefield being the same size. The downside of these larger maps is players now have way more room to hide, jet matches take the full 25 minutes to complete (when most of us played jets bc of its fast pace nature compared to props), and the stupid amount of time it takes just to rearm and refuel. It’s not a positive change but it has positive intentions. I definitely don’t want to constantly see EC maps bc those are even worse at 9.0, where I mainly play, but we’ll see
I noticed that accidental teamkills are more common now thanks to increased number of jets in the sky.
At least with the new big maps we get to use the full extent of the plans. It actually feels like I'm taking my su25 on a combat mission.
I love your idea on the improved air RB
.A good addition would be not having any AA on the closer airfields. Meaning quick jets can flank without worrying about getting shot down in the missile of the map. If you want to re-arm closer, do it at your own risk, or head back to your AF for a much safer re-arm. But you won’t get back into battle and help your teammates quicker. Oh man. If a person who actually played the game was in charge of war thunder decisions. The game would be so much better.
Most of the things u said i totally agree bc i have been saying those same things to my friends before i have watched this, but the extra airfield on is such a briliant idea bc if the enemy doesn't use a blind hunt or avenger they cannot know in which one u are
Oh yes, more of my favourite gameplay feature - flying for 10 minutes before I see a first target of any sort.
If they want to keep the bigger maps, they should limit them to 10.7/11.0 or above. Maybe it should also be time for them to try a top-tier bomber/attacker PVE mode, like heli PVE.
These changes are needed, however gaijin would just put a middle finger up and tell you to sod off whilst making it worst. Just like what they did to tims
Consistent pool of bigger maps is a very healthy change and pre introduction of 16v16 arb was honestly enjoyable, now its a missile clusterfuck that shouldve been introduced to even bigger - EC maps instead
About 4 years ago Gaijin posted a topic in the forums from the Devs asking for recommendations from the player base on how to improve air RB. I made these very suggestions then.
That's basically all Gaijin would have to do to make the bigger maps good, really. I still think they were a good addition, just wish I was only getting them at like 11.0 and up...
Yeah I played here on propeller plane. It took eternity to spot enemy. When you are out of ammo it took another eternity to return base and come back. But it's one + you can fly to space when u climb :)
They just need to make the enduring confrontation gamemode always available for rb, it's the most fun I've ever had in planes
You know what's fun , AB in top tier as you described , is the same way it's set for mid BR like 4.3 - 6.0
Agreed. I spent like 100 AUD on a freaking Su-25K and after that gaijin makes an update so I have to wait a huge portion of the game travelling there (and back if I survive) in a, mind you, subsonic, close-attack low speed jet…
Imo this is a net positive change. But they need to follow up. More needs to be done.
The best thing is: for some reason even prop planes get these maps. It was already a problem when they introduced the canyon map but its even worse now. I mean like what do you expect a match to be like when Im put onto a jet map with my 6.0 or sometimes 5.0 bomber? right, I fly for ten minutes and get annihalated by some fighter
Gaijin seems to not understand that a bigger map requires to be filled with more ground targets, bases and so on and not be left empy. But i guess that would mean easier grinding and Gaijin doesn't like that. Come on, i can't play in these new EC maps with only 5 bases and 2-3 columns of armored targets to bomb while being much bigger than normal maps that have 4 bases, armored columns and also a lot of soft targets like howitzers and AA.
The thing is this si a paradox, nobody knows exactly how to fix the problem of furballs and quick matches without sacrificing one aspect of gameplay in the match, all that gain can do is to implement specific changes to the maps to see the effect of the games so they can add more improvements after that
With BVR, bigger maps was needed. But as you said, objectives needs to be spread across the whole map.
I would absolutely love if they gave us more targets, and optional objectives throughout the entire map, make it a living active battlefield so it feels like we are actually fighting in a war. Randomness can be just as much fun, if not more fun than doing the same thing every time for YEARS
The bigest fun is to been spawned on this map while ya flying some prehistoric jet crap from late 40s with top speed of 800 kmh, lmao, it take about 10 minutes to just reach the battlefield
I agree, ever since the update, the maps need multiple spawns in my opinion
Agree with absolutely everything you said 1000% word for word. I actually made a few comments on the forums on the day of the changes and got spanked by the players for saying what you said in the video. The majority thinks having this 16v16 flustrecluck is a good thing and that big maps are big bad.
Big map = good. Now spread out objectives. Give more objectives, more airfields, more time and more tickets.
We basically reinvented AIR RB EC from 2018.
Alternatively I am a big advocate for the original small maps with 4v4 teams.
But from my own long experience with Garbajin, this will never happen. And if it does, it will be 1 step forward and 5 steps back as always.
It was my first time playing since the patch. Decided to fly the a10 first and got this map. The entire battle was literally over before I even got to the combat zone. Couldnt even kill any ground targets before the game ended. Great map
easiest fix is to add at minimum 2 more bases per side and take all the ground units and bases and scatter them across the entire map instead of having the same 2km² area where everyone dies in a clusterfuck
The map you described at the end looks literally fucking perfect how the hell can one random dude on TH-cam design a map 100x better than a full as fucking dev team
I like them, but only at top top tier, thing is it's extended down to BRs where radars are blind and missiles can't hit past 5km
Great analysis m8.
In reality all they did and why is:
They enabled F14, F16 Yak 141 and Mig 29 to get kills at BVR.
But Shit on all Non BVR vehicles.
You can Lawndart of course to avoid Radar but that just means 32 Planes crashing at each other at around Mach 1.
Exactly. This is literally what top tier matches play like right now.
Currently the only thing that is a noticable improvement over the smaller maps is people being unable to run/camp base as quickly. Adding more instakill bubbles is definantly not the play, if a forward airfield is wanted then it needs to not have that. Adding an extra airfield in the back that still has SAMs/AAA is okay.
Instant nope on the forward airfield proposal. With how fast top tiers are, you'll end up in AA range if you turn the wrong way once. Maybe they could have AA disabled, idk
I've said for many years that the issue with War Thunder and it's updates is it adds vehicles but doesn't seem to add anything to change, or improve gameplay in terms of matches. There used to be features in WT that made RB feel a bit more dynamic yet they removed them. Why can't we have something to appease both people who want to fly fighters and those who want to play bombers.
I think the solution to top tier is less people per match. Why? For larger maps, like in EC, its fine because everyone scatters and you're less likely to get beamed by 4 different radars all shooting SARH missiles, but for smaller maps you just have too many enemies to face against as one person. And yeah it's supposed to be a team game, but as I stated before you just have too many BVR pings to realistically defend against in the best scenarios and once you get into a furball match there's so many all aspect missiles flying around that you can't keep your head on straight from constantly C-keying around to make sure there isn't 3 jets on your ass all firing 9Ls/R60Ms at you(not to mention the spotting system is still broken so sometimes people, even right in front of you you SEE, just disappear and you have no clue if a missile is coming at you). Having 12 v 12 matches in 11.0+ games just is a massive pain to survive. Sure you get maybe one or two kills if you're lucky but a majority of the time I find its one or two people going 3-5 kills on either side and then the match ends. Sometimes for me it feels like a better idea to just wait on the airfield for the fighting to start and then take off because of the BVR spam
I very much agree with this. More players was a step in the wrong direction.
Cannot express how much I agree with this, if anything then keep the maps, even tho they should be reverted.. but for the love of God, revert the 16v16 BS.. it there is a player count per team change that we need, it is a DEcrease, not increase, I would be fine with just 8v8s, even 6v6s for 9.3+ not this 32 players in one match, it is absolutely unmanageable to even reliably keep yourself alive, regardless of what u are flying, let alone to plan attacks without 70%+ death chance.. they better revert those changes asap
Want them to make a naval map in Hawaii or somthing
I hate this change and it made me stop playing ARB since it way more boring, just waiting to get into a fight doing nothing and you get les RP. Now top tier is like props, the 1st 5 min you don't even need to play.
Overall this is a massive improvement, the altitudes where fights happen are far more realistic.
Also, For the Mig29 taking 5 minutes to rearm, its taking forever to get back because your flying back too low. go full burner at a 20 degree climb (assuming you have the fuel) and climb to at least 6000M, and you will be able to fly at like mach 1.5+ easily. When you get within a few KM of the airfield just airbrake and nose down to control your speed and descent.
"Overall this is a massive improvement"
I could not disagree more.
For top tier? Sure! For 9.0? No, absolutely not. If these maps were limited to top tier (11.3+) it would be absolutely fine. Also, cramming more people onto effectively the same fighting area or even literally some of the smaller maps has done nothing to improve the experience.
Tbh I feel like they're PERFECT for either their own game mode for all BRs or just at the higher BRs
I love getting giant maps in my La-15 >:^(