Gracie vs. Kimura - October 23, 1951 (Maracanã Stadium - Rio de Janeiro, Brasil)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- On October 23, 1951, Helio Gracie faced Masahiko Kimura who outweighed him by nearly 80 lbs. It was the first time that a jiu-jitsu world championship match would be held outside of Japan. Kimura was so confident of victory that he declared that if Helio could last for more than 3 minutes, he should be declared the winner. After 13 minutes, Kimura caught Helio in the shoulder lock that, today, bears Kimura's name. Helio wouldn't tap, so Carlos Gracie threw in the towel forfeiting the match to the Japanese giant. His loss to Kimura was consider one of the greatest victories of Helio Gracie's career.
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The Gracie's are good at 3 things
1. Promoting their art
2. Being salty after every defeat
3. Changing history
4. Underhanded tactics
@@oguzmen5451
5 political influence
(Rufino dos santos storyl
Yeah and what's crazy is they are actually great at martial arts and self defense. Why when you are that good do you need to exaggerate and fake so much?
5. Being assholes
@@RanjitSingh-em7lx yes exactly. It really shows the type of people they are
20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm [5'11"] and 80 kg [176#]. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami. I thought he would surrender immediately. But Helio would not tap the mat. I had no choice but keep on twisting the arm. The stadium became quiet. The bone of his arm was coming close to the breaking point. Finally, the sound of bone breaking echoed throughout the stadium. Helio still did not surrender. His left arm was already powerless. Under this rule, I had no choice but twist the arm again. There was plenty of time left. I twisted the left arm again. Another bone was broken. Helio still did not tap. When I tried to twist the arm once more, a white towel was thrown in. I won by TKO. My hand was raised high. Japanese Brazilians rushed into the ring and tossed me up in the air. On the other hand, Helio let his left arm hang and looked very sad withstanding the pain
holy shit that helio guy let his bones broke than tap out (kinda stupid tho considering at that point he probably knew he couldnt beat kimura)
@@bestlobjagamer348 Why you tap out? Go sleep! Go sleep, like a real man. 😂
Same mindset, just few decades later. 🥹💁♂️
Kimura es una leyenda. Barrio el piso con los mentirosos de los gracie
@@bestlobjagamer348es que los gracie son narcicistas. Aunque pierdan inventan excusas y los hacen porque no puefen aceptar que existen mejores que ellos.
Maybe you should get the facts straight in this video. Kimura was a judoka.. Judo is not jiu-jitsu. Nowhere is the art of Judo mentioned in the clip. The best Judoka (Kimura) beat the greatest BJJ-practioner (Helio Gracie).
67yrs of making excuses with all the condition in Gracie's favor. Just accept defeat with pride......THAT'S the definition of a warrior...a REAL warrior. Throwing in the towel is the most embarrassing thing you can do in a match...meaning you weren't even on the same level as your opponent.
Pessoal o Kimura seria do jiu jitsu japonês o original, ele era judoca, como assim "bjj fighter"? O bjj e derivado direto do judô assim como o sambo russo tambem não há dúvida nisso, pode ser visto e comprava do em várias fontes. Só no Brasil os Gracie tentan mudar o imutável e criar revisionismo histórico. Todas as principais técnicas do bjj estão no judô pois foram trazida prontas do Japão.
The world would be a better place if videos of these and other old matches were full released
Love you guys
You guys should have paid tribute to Kimura, not Helio.
Billy Robinson taught kimura that hold so it's also america and germany that has Brazil beaten
Kazushi Sakuraba came along later and taught the Gracies respect
Please read Rickson Gracie's book. Very excellent
For all the people talking bad about the gracies: Why would Rener Gracie talk bad about his grandpa? He did some questionable things, but if Helio was my grandpa, I would also leave the bad details out. Think of it that way.
If I had a brick for every Gracie excuse, Id have my own house by now.
A whole neighborhood at this point
No more slums out of zinc sheets.
andres morales enough for my house too right?!?!
That's how they build their own houses, all and just family business
Description: "Helio got his ass kicked so hard that they named a technique after the guy who destroyed him but, somehow, that is one of Helios greatest victories."
Succesful roberies are victories.
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 i am Brazilian, and here the gracies are not sacred, they are just a bunch of cocky idiots that knew how to fight indeed. But nothing more, no honor, no class nothing. A lot of Brazilians are realising how much jerks the gracies were, and thanks god The BJJ and MMA are much bigger than them
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 Brazilians barely care about Jiu-Jitsu itself, let alone the Gracie family
😂
"But he couldn't finish my grandfather..." Helio himself said he was unconscious in the first 10 seconds of the fight. Kimura let the choke off so he regained consciousness so the fight could continue and Gracie wouldn't be shamed in front of his home crowd. Kimura was that kind of man who actually took this match kind of lightly, as an exhibition match. He was smiling a lot at the whole Gracie spectacular with the coffin etc.
Classy guy!
When you throw in the towel, that means you’re finished lol. Unless in Gracie Rules throwing in the towel means you actually won.
This is all true and I love Kimura, but he didn't let off the choke just so he could gain consciousness again, he didn't think the choke was working (I don't really remember but I think it was a sankaku?) and he tried switching to something else. Everything else is spot on with what Helio and Kimura themselves have said. Even to add to it, the mats were way softer than Kimura was used to and he never said if Helio lasts longer than three minutes he counts it as a loss. A lot of rubbish propaganda by the Gracie family and Brazil. Also why does he still say Kimura did jiu-jitsu? It isn't the 1920's anymore, the judoka beat the BJJ practitioner, simple as
@@confessedrock7358 he let off the choke cause he didn’t want to kill him.
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
Kimura was invited to Brazil as a "Gracie Challenge" under "Gracie Rules" - where the Gracies decided that you could only win by submissions or loss of consciousness. So arrogant were the Gracies at the time, that they brought out a coffin before the match (ie., for Kimura), and people threw eggs at Kimura when he was walking out. This, is a bit different than Rener's claim in the video above that "Helio was not expecting to win." Keep in mind that Kimura, already a legend in his time, was basically doing the Gracies a favor by even acknowledging them with a match in Brazil.
Well, Helio was choked unconscious for almost a minute in the beginning of the match, and when the match was not stopped, he only released him so as not to kill him, and actually asked if he was ok. Yet Helio was allowed to recover and the match continued. By "continued", I mean Helio went on to have his arm dislocated in two places.
Let's not forget that when the Gracies originally challenged Kimura, he sent one of his students saying "if Helio can beat him, I will show up". Ironically enough, Helio beat Kato with a choke, a priviledge Kimura was not allowed I guess.
In addition, soft mats were brought in to protect Helio from Kimura's ability to knock people out with a throw. If the Gracies were trying to sell the Gracie Challenges as streetfight conditions, Helio would've been incapacitated within the 1st 30 seconds, as Kimura completely ragdolled Helio.
Rener also refers to Kimura as a "jiu-jitsu" fighter, when he's a Judoka. The insinuation that only jiu-jitsu can beat jiu-jitsu is a cleverly misleading ploy meant to mislead casual fans and gain potential clients. Rener certainly knows the difference.
How come Rener (the producer of this video) never mentions any of this, but instead makes it sound like the only reason Helio lost was because he was "outweighed by 80lbs", (which is an absolute lie, Helio did not weigh 98lbs), when, in fact, Helio was not only dominated, but nearly killed and maimed....
Totally classless.
.....those rules make sense because a submission or lost of consciousness is what will truly win a fight. you cant throw someone or pin them and say "i won" whoever gets submitted or loses consciousness loses the fight so i dont understand your argument. gracie lost anyways so what the point you are trying to make
Taylor Wells
The point is that Kimura held him unconscious in the beginnning of the bout and only let go so as not to kill him. It doesn't matter that Kimura went on to win. The match should've been over immediately. But to avoid embarrassment, the Gracies were allowed to cheat, and Helio got a second chance, to which he still failed miserably.
So Kimura came in, where the Gracies specifically dictated their own rules, and Helio was completely dominated, almost killed, and has his arm dislocated in two places before the Gracies throw in the towel.
Here's what bothers me - does Rener ever mention any of this? Does he give Kimura any credit? No, not only does he have to make up an excuse, but completely lies about it. Not to mention that Helio goes on to do a Playboy interview in 2001 saying he 'felt like he didn't really lose the fight' and insinuates that he only lost because his corner threw in the towel by accident.
Because of this, anyone watching this video who doesn't know any better would think that Helio was the champion and Kimura won on a fluke (his weight). That's pretty classless.
lastuvthe what are you talking about? they didnt lie about it they said it themselves in an interview
Taylor Wells
Well he lied about the weight difference for one.
Would you say that Rener presented this vdeo in a completely honest and objective manner? As I stated before, anyone who watches this video and doesn't know anything about the match, would walk away thinking that Helio would've won if he wasn't "outweighed by 80lbs".
That is what upsets me.
kimura weighed 187, helio weighed 145
"His loss to Kimura was considered one of the greatest victories of his career."
*Gets his arm broken twice*
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 Colby Covington has said worse and survived
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 para de spamear idiota eu to no brasil e falo eae?
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 nothing sacred about it and im here in sao paulo..saying it ..what do u gonna do?
That's some mental jiu-jitsu right there, calling a loss a victory lol
First of all, Kimura sensei was a judo-ka, not a jujitsu-ka (although he was, of course, the strongest class in Japan at the time in ground fighting and joint lock). Also, there wasn't as much weight difference as being said here. In the first place, Gracie was the one who challenges, so he's not in a position to complain no matter how much weight differences there were. One more interesting fact, Kimura-sensei was actually drinking alcohol and having a fun with a woman the day before the game. Because he took it for granted that "In this rule, no one can beat me."
In a pre-match interview, Kimura said, "If my hold gains the point, please give up. I don't want to destroy or kill people." Seeing the comment, Gracie took it as a provocation and got enraged high. Finally, please understand that this kind of videos with this kind of content do not help to protect Gracie's pride.
(From Japanese martial arts fans)
degenerate kimura
確かに。
Ude garami submission for 100s of years.. a Gracie gets tapped by that submission and has the ego to change the name to kimura 🤨🙄 .. look at kosen judo books from 19.18 there playing xguard open guard sweeps spider guard.. but Helio Gracie invented the guard and leverage 🧐🤔
@@carson3811 it's not ego to name a hood after someone else, you maniac. Everything else you said it true.
Don't forget that the day after Helio defeating Kato(kimura's apprentice), the Brazilian newspaper wrote that "choke out yellow man" in a Racist way.
This video is much more accurate when volume is muted. Great video!
lol, its funny truth.
LOL, listening to it with the sound muted now!
Thank you so much! I couldn't get that man's irritating voice out of my head.
What they don't tell you is the mats were far softer than judo mats, because Kimura was known to knock his opponents out by throwing them so strongly. The Gracies also tried to intimidate Kimura by bringing in an open coffin before the match with Kimura's name on it! The tale that Kimura said if anyone survived for three minutes with him they would have won the match is Gracies spin, an invention to make them look better. The Gracies family are known to revenge themselves against people who win against them, going mob handed after the match using blackjack or knuckle duster against them in the street, knocking them out then deliberately putting an arm lock on to cripple the wrestler so he needs surgery and can never challenge them again, this they did to Rafael di Santos the catch wrestler that defeated one of their number. The three Gracies were convicted of this ambush and each sentenced to three years hard labour in gaol. It was only due to the political influence of the family that these Gracies thugs got a pardon from the political mayor of Rio that these thugs didn't serve a day in gaol. This family are not a good role model for martial artists.
😮
Maybe he should have thrown Helio into the coffin after the match.
Sou Brasileiro e nunca ouvi essa historia sabe me mandar uma fonte ???
Gaol? Are you from 1803?
@@Soulrollsdeep No I'm from the U.K so I don't use jail which is an Americanism the correct spelling is gaol in English spelling, not reformed spelling from Websters dictionary from the U.S. You obviously have been educated by Americans.
20,000 people not 200,000. Helio organised a coffin to be brought out to so say it was where Kimura would be placed after his loss. Humble bloke.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL
this is fake news
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 stop spamming this crap
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 what are u Gracies cousin or something lol
10 years from now
My grandfather let kimura won., because he was afraid that he would kill him. My grandfather was 30lbs and kimura was easily 300lbs and more, and yet my grandfather was trying to drain all his energy then suddenly, my grandfather who was only 30 lbs gave up and broke his own arm just to let kimura win. Later that night at the locker room kimura cried and said Gracie invented judo and karate and also started the avengers
😂
lol
true story.
In your dream 😂
i wear space pants too!
the only thing bigger than a Gracie's ego is their propaganda...
***** do your own research about this...propaganda...
***** deal with it then. Get laid or something. Get over with it.
Is it your period? Get some cranberry juice..On me
***** PMS can be horrible..undoubtedly...
They go apeshit over the weight advantage kimura had over royce which was fucking exaggerated, yet kept mum about the fact that helio was 5cm taller than kimura. And a lot of other bullshit such as the coffin and the soft mat and that kimura was a judo practitioner, not jiu jitsu. I can't believe people still listen to their shit. Its just a pathetic way to gain more followers into the gracie club and kimura being a ''jiu jitsu'' practitioner, so people will think well its jiu jitsu vs jiu jitsu, so its alright. When no, its judo vs BJJ, and judo won. Judo should be the one getting the hype, not BJJ.
Dont get me wrong I love bjj and the gracies are great fighters, but they're full of shit. Every time I hear this story kimura gains an inch in height and 10 pounds. Heilo literally brought a coffin to the ring and said that he was going to put kimura in it. Humble "warriors" who are expecting to loose don't pull shit like that. Heilo expected to win, and then lost. No two ways about it.
+Stu Morrison Deploying a not so subtle psychological technique to mine your opponent's mindset might be different from expecting to win, still.
I think that's pretty generous...
+Pnoy Pnay If you can't come up with an original thought, say nothing.
+uayfb1 what r u talking about he nailed it.
+Pnoy Pnay First Gracie(s), was it Helio's Uncle? I forget at this moment, was taught by a Japanese Judo and/or Ju Jitsu guy who came to Brazil. It is all just Japanese Judo, Fusen Judo, Ju Jitsu. Nothing new. But you are correct, they just gave Brazilian names to the Japanese names.
This is a passage from Kimura's autobiography: "20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm and 80kg. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me."
Not a good look for Brazil
@@junjungatbos3548 Indeed. As a Brazilian and an ex judo student it's really embarassing, but I assure you we aren't all like this. BJJ had a really bad phase here at 90s and early 00s, but even BJJ students started to act with more maturity.
@@junjungatbos3548 > them Brazil ers are an uncouth lot !
Kimura was 170cm 85kg... helio is most tall and only 5 less kg than Kimura.
Kimura gave them karma.
Kimura told Helio that if he lasted more than 4 seconds, he would be declared the winner. Despite Helio only lasting 3 seconds, it was declared that Helio would be the winner as 3 earth seconds is technically 729 seconds on Venus. Kimura created a shrine to Helio in his honour and prayed to it every day.
😆
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Wow, I lost so much respect for Renner after watching this video.
Truth-twisting / half-lies is unfitting for a student of the martial arts. I think Helio would rather him not make this video.
So true!
Pretty pathetic.
I agree man, any decent martial artist who knows the history of BJJ know that 80% of what he said was misinformation.
He did not learn the virtue of humility from his grandfather.
@@yongjiean9980 If you read about his grandfather he wasn't a very nice guy neither.
He (Gracie) never expected to beat Kimura Sensei, yet he prepared a coffin for him. Hmmm.....that is inconsistent. Modern day Samurai? Gimme a break.
Samurai fought to kill but still conducted themselves with respect (even towards their enemies) and honor...for the most part. It is now clear that the Gracies were lacking respect and honor from the start. They always twist facts to build up the delusional hype that they are eliet. Just trained thugs, not professionals.
@Mister Guy thats one perspective. I do agree that Samurai were npt as chivalrous as people think. Much like european nights thought to be noble but most were rapist and brutal.
@Mister Guy he is talking about the way samurai trated each other. But yeah, they were exactly what you said.
you trashtalk before the fight not after lol.
@Mister Guy but you know who was the honorable bunch? Ninjas.
News flash Gracies, when you get your arm torn apart and your corner throws the towel, you have been defeated. Helio was not undefeated, he just had to big of an ego to tap.
syncopoly
Helio also lost to his student Santana. Still the Gracie's say Helio is undefeated.
Also they claim the Gracie's won every challenge, but lost against the other Maeda linage that have nothing to do with the Gracies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswaldo_Fadda
PELIO like pile of poooooo !
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
Yea. He kinda acted like that one stubborn training partner.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 Kimura finished Gracie on Brazilian soil
The Gracie's always created a platform that would give them and their style the advantage, even in the first UFC they manipulated the guidelines to favor their techniques, and as far as the kimura match, kimura absolutely dominated that match in every way possible
judo butthurt is real in this one :D
@@rabitof5248 It’s not really butthurt, it’s just what happened. I appreciate the Gracies for popularizing submission grappling in the US, but let’s not pretend like they weren’t a bit shady throughout their history. When a wrestler named Dos Santos Defeated a Gracie in the ring, they later beat him with crowbars in an alley and he never fought again. No Gracie ever went to jail because they had political influence in Brazil
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
BJJ is very definitely over-rated, it seems obsessed about strangulation and seems very limited when it comnes to other types of submissions such as leg and arm bars.
@@FrancisMaxino you must not take BJJ lol
LMAO at all the comments exposing the gracie LIE.
+tontonpacute everything get exageratet over the years... the undeniable fact is this... BJJ/Gracie Jiu jitsu IS the dominant style.. we all know the gracies took on the world and won... and now if you don't know Jiu Jitsu... you will lose in the cage /or ring.. tell me differant
+tontonpacute Are you FOR or AGAINST all those comments?
+Keith Sterling OK, I'll tell you different. Have one of them go into a Boxing Ring against a Professional Boxer, under Boxing Rules. Then let me know how they do. But of course your comeback is .. "oh no!! no!! They can't do that. That's not "real" fighting, that's not "martial arts", that's not "mixed martial arts", that's not by OUR Rules!! So we can't possible win if it's not by OUR Rules!!!". How about this? How about a fight in which the Rules state that you can ONLY execute wrist locks and finger locks, nothing else? You're comeback ... "oh no!! No!! That's not right. That's not "real" fighting. That's not by OUR Rules!!".. How about under Russian Sambo Rules? Olympic Greco-Roman Wrestling Rules? Olympic Judo Rules? How about NO RULES at all? How about when they are over there in Dubai at their little made up Tournament, they go a little ways North (or perhaps Northeast) and drop down in the midst of "ISIS", and let us know how they make out? Funny, I saw a documentary video on a Canadian women, slight of stature, and older (not sure if over 40), who did actually go over there to fight against "ISIS" and whomever. She became part of a small group of "foreigners". She actually did engage in combat. She was NOT a GJJ/BJJ/MMA/UFC/Muay Thai fighter. She had been a model. She had never been in the military. She just decided to do it, and she did. They trained her and equipped her over there. Any of your guys ever do that? Ever fought in combat? Ever been in the military? Ever do such a thing, that this middle aged woman model did? Humm??? Ever been in PRISON? Alone? The only undeniable fact is that GJJ/BJJ, etc has set the Rules, controlled the contests, marketed and promoted, and hand picked everyone that has fought. They would never let in anyone who was a truly trained martial artist who could beat them. Nothing new in that. Tae Kwon Do has been doing it since the end of the Korean War. Marketing and Promotion. Claiming that TKD is 2500 years old, when in fact it was made up by the South Korean Gov't after the end of the Korean War (or WWII, I forget which at this moment), as a Gov't instituted National Sport, Martial Art, and Identity. The Gracies took on the world and won........... under THEIR Rules, in THEIR environment. When someone doesn't play by THEIR Rules, they usually lose, then whine and cry and complain about, then threaten people. Which Gracie was it that lost that fight to that Japanese guy in Japan, then immediately got up complaining about it? Hummm??? Who did Matt Hughes pound the crap out of? Was that a Gracie? Who was your "Champion" who got the crap beaten out of him, and his arm broken? Isn't Anderson Silva one of your "Champions"? Did he get knocked out? Didn't he get a compound fracture in his leg cuz he doesn't know how to through a Roundhouse kick the correct way? Didn't he come back and get beat? Isn't he one of your boys? Didn't Ronda Rousey (a judoka) beat all those other women who were GJJ/BJJ/MMA fighters? Ronda losing to Holly Holm (which I still don't understand what the hell happened) was to a boxer/kick boxer NOT a GJJ/BJJ fighter. If I was really INTO all this, and really FOLLOWED IT, I'm sure I could come up with dozens and dozens if not hundreds more instances where your "dominant style" got whooped!!! But I really don't even follow it, cuz in my opinion it is 1/2 step above "Professional Wrestling (WWF/WWE)", and is not TRUE Martial Arts. Nothing much more than "Tough Guy" competitions that they use to do. So GJJ/BJJ is fading, and it will pass, then it will be back to Bare Knuckle Boxing and Boxing skills, which will be the "dominant style". Then it will be something else, again. Some day, in a hundred years or so, it will all be blended into one thing. By your saying "... and now if you don't know Jiu Jitsu......" is misleading, cuz there are many different Styles, Systems, and Schools of "Jiu Jitsu/Ju Jitsu" in the world, mostly in Japan, of course. So do utilize the Fusen Judo that Gracie has incorporated, while others may be so called "stand up" styles. If you just say "Jiu Jitsu most true martial artist will think you are talking about a Japanese system, in Japan. So it best you say "Gracie" or "Brazilian". Further, I have noticed, and it has been stated, that "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu" has gone away from "Gracie Jiu Jitsu".
@aspenrebel..wow That was quite a rebutle. Yes' anyone can get beaten at any time agreed. but much of what you said is just not so.. Ryoce gracie VS matt hughs was fought under the "new " UfC rules, which as you know are very restricting, and Royce was nearly 50yrs old fighting a man in his prime. originally the only rules were you couldn't eye gouge, small joint manipulation, and fish hook .Which really made it as close to no rules as possible. Japanese Jiu jitsu is actually AKI ju jitsu, BJJ is more sport oriented, while GJJ is more self defense oriented. What the Brazillians did is take a lot of the Japanese formalities out and get to what works. No. I have not been in the military(whatever that has to do with anything), . The gracies started teaching GJJ to the US army Rangers and still do... So Im guessing it has some value. As for how a boxer beat Rhonda.. easy she(RR) was overly aggressive moved in straight lines and led with her face.. You don't do that to a skilled boxer. My point to all this is all martial arts that I know of including boxing, have their merits(I box a little, have a blue belt Hapkido, and am a white belt BJJ) however I believe in the real world under no rules in the street , bar or what ever... I would give the edge to a BJJ/GJJ?akiJJ fighter any time. I don't mean t be an ass And I hope you don't take it that way.. but I don't get the point to a lot of what your saying.
in a street fight Judo vs BJJ?you pick BJJ?hmmm im not so sure about that. judo guy would drop a BBJ guy on his head and neck onto the ground and the fight might be over before it even started, the real ground not a mat. granted most fights i seen and been in end up on the ground where BBJ is the best but its not like judo is useless on the ground. remember the old pride fighting days?they use to allow head butts and the like and i remember seeing alot of Shootfighters and wrestlers win. both judo and BBJ are great ones better standing up the other is better on the ground so its a hard call im guessing it might depend on the people fighting like most fights usually do. i do think if judo expanded the arts ground work like BJJ does that judo would be lights out. i really dont know a whole lot about martial arts but i know and use to wrestle, but i think i have heard some forms of judo do have complete ground work.
LOL. His "specialty" was survival. Good one. I swear the Gracies will say anything to cover their asses.
@@andreilukyanov4286 "drew with them, they weren't able to choke, nor to submit him."
That's not something to be proud of. Oh great you a master of the useless art of not submitting. In a real fight that means you die or are seriously injured.
Yes😂😂
He didn't survive after all lmao.
Yeah Survive by throwing in the towel and make sure the Japanese don’t kill you. Happened when Royce was nearly killed by Sakuraba as well.
@@andreilukyanov4286 RUFINO DOS SANTOS
The weight difference was there but definitely NOT 80lbs.
Kimura was 8 kilos heavier or close to 20lbs.
So please don't overstate his weight.
Maybe the next time, Rener and Ryron will overstate Kimura's weight as 280lbs heavier than Helio, and Kimura's 6'4" tall.
The Gracies are good, classy magicians of sophistry and deceit, they will make ridiculous claims just to make their way believable. Why do they do it? Because they have a reputation and a business to protect! They know the American public is so polluted with UFC primetime, they haven't took the time to look at facts.
Thats just how the Gracies are. They made every excuse when Sakuraba dismantled four members of their family too. Rener probably grew up hearing that story about his Grandfather Helio, taking on Kimura, who was 80 pounds heavier than him, and thought itwas true. So i dont really blame him. Either way, Helio Gracie was a badass dude though.
kimura was way more than 8 kilos heavier. he was about 210 and helio was around 145.
Katsuya89
csnation you're high, that dude clearly had over 50 plds on him
Not once did you praise the victory of Kimura, that's the definition of bad sportsmanship - Truth.
"He was nearly 80 pounds heavier than my grandfather."
Kimura was roughly 180 at 5'7'', so that meant Helio was 100 or 105 at 5'9''? Stop this bullshit, give Kimura the respect he deserves - Helio himself admitted in the 90's that he went unconscious in the first round, but Kimura let go of the do-jime and continued the fight
and the coffin story/"survive 3 minutes = victory" shit is also an outright lie - 40 years from now they'll say Sakuraba told the 3 Gracies if they all survived for atleast 3 minutes with him, they'll be the victors
Also Kimura was known to knock people out with his throws so the Brazilians added extra padding under the mats.
Helio was 5'11''!!! In fact, for Brazil in those years, he was like a giant [Royce is 6' tall, though also very skinny; Renner is 6'3"].
In fact, taller persons have an advantage, even in BJJ where it might seem as a DISANTVANTAGE...they also competed in Lucha Libre in Brazil, w. a considerable reach advantage!! ROYCE is double-jointed, a 2nd important reason he was chosen for MMA; 3d: then teaching & training several hours EVERY DAY, very fit!!
[He was caught, naturally, using dope....
lucky for him, at the end of his career]!!
RICKSON would've been the first (natural) choice for UFC, only Gracie of t. Helio branch to be under 6ft tall, but extremely strong, ruthless, a natural-born & street-trained brawler, exc. for most powerful, also the MOST TECHNICAL of all Gracies
(he even taught my teacher, multiple BJJ champion Rigan MACHADO very advanced, innovative techniques)!!
But, he declined UFC and he was somewhat removed fr. HELIO, an unacceptable "offence".....
bedavelli and sakuraba weighed 1000 pounds of steroidal muscle
@@henryc7548 lol
@@multitimecop Damn you really swallowed the Gracie propaganda.
what lies! kimora was only 15 pounds heavier, yet I've heard a million time he was 40lbs heavier. now it's 80?
then he makes it sound like his fan throwing in the towel was the only reason he lost, even though his arm was broken.
gracies, esp rorion (aka whorian) like to stretch the truth.
And Kimura was not a Jiu-JItsu fighter he was a JUDOKA whom had a black belt from the Kodokan not in Jiu-Jitsu.
***** exactly! I believe his intention in saying kimora was jiu jitsu was to make it sound as though jiu jitsu can only be beat by jiu jitsu.
***** i hate how the gracies try to downplay the fact that BJJ came from judo, not jujitsu
beeatoms Judo was derived from Jujitsu - not the other way around.
1) The Gracie family simply copied the ground game of Judo and claimed it as their own invention (BJJ).
2) Kimura was NOT a jiu-jitsu practitioner, he was a Judoka.
3) One of the conditions of the match (by the Gracies) was to fight on soft mats to negate the throws of Kimura.
4) Kimura was NOT 80 lbs heavier, he was 8 kg heavier (17~ lbs), otherwise we should be seeing a 5'7 japanese man walking around at 260 lbs if the Gracie's claims are to be true.
5) Kimura NEVER said that Helio couldn't last more than 3 minutes and certainly never said that Helio would be called the winner if he did.
6) The "shoulder lock" that Kimura used was even copied by the Gracies. They now claim it as a BJJ technique named after Kimura when in reality it's simply a Judo technique called "gyaku ude-garami".
7) Helio even admitted later in life that he had passed out from a choke earlier in the match from Kimura (which by the rules of the fight should have made Kimura the winner right then and there).
The Gracie family has done and continues to try and construe every loss their family has experienced into a "victory" when instead of admitting defeat with honor they're terrible sore losers about it even to this day.
Irper Gundersen And yet all of the techniques in BJJ already existed in Judo, that's not a "small part of it".
Kimura was a surreal fighter.He used to train twice than the best judokas in Japan used to.And he is considered the best judoka of all time in Japan.
Bahahahah "small of it" are you trolling or what?
Don't know why everyone worships BJJ but not judo. :(
I have quit my BJJ class and i am looking for judo now.
Story behind
Kimura vs gracie.
Kimura was invited to Brazil as a "Gracie Challenge" under "Gracie Rules" - where the Gracies decided that you could only win by submissions or loss of consciousness. So arrogant were the Gracies at the time, that they brought out a coffin before the match (ie., for Kimura), and people threw eggs at Kimura when he was walking out. This, is a bit different than Rener's claim in the video above that "Helio was not expecting to win." Keep in mind that Kimura, already a legend in his time, was basically doing the Gracies a favor by even acknowledging them with a match in Brazil.
Well, Helio was choked unconscious for almost a minute in the beginning of the match, and when the match was not stopped, he only released him so as not to kill him, and actually asked if he was ok. Yet Helio was allowed to recover and the match continued. By "continued", I mean Helio went on to have his arm dislocated in two places.
Let's not forget that when the Gracies originally challenged Kimura, he sent one of his students saying "if Helio can beat him, I will show up". Ironically enough, Helio beat Kato with a choke, a priviledge Kimura was not allowed I guess.
In addition, soft mats were brought in to protect Helio from Kimura's ability to knock people out with a throw. If the Gracies were trying to sell the Gracie Challenges as streetfight conditions, Helio would've been incapacitated within the 1st 30 seconds, as Kimura completely ragdolled Helio.
Rener also refers to Kimura as a "jiu-jitsu" fighter, when he's a Judoka. The insinuation that only jiu-jitsu can beat jiu-jitsu is a cleverly misleading ploy meant to mislead casual fans and gain potential clients. Rener certainly knows the difference.
How come Rener (the producer of this video) never mentions any of this, but instead makes it sound like the only reason Helio lost was because he was "outweighed by 80lbs", (which is an absolute lie, Helio did not weigh 98lbs), when, in fact, Helio was not only dominated, but nearly killed and maimed....
Totally classless.
He was 70 pounds heavier. Yeah real fair.
and in other threads,people complain that adema was "way bigger" than Kimura when they had their Vale Tudo match. Giving no credit to Adema as a fighter. So both sides are butthurt about things.
Don't know what is worse, trying to fix rules to favor your own style, or losing under the very rules you made yourself.
I agree with everything you said, but I'd just like to add that while Kimura-sensei was indeed a judo practitioner, that style of judo is not the same as the judo that's most well known today. The art changed a lot after it became an olympic sport, and it got a lot more focused on scoring points in olympic matches than on actual fighting as it was during Kimura-sensei's time and before.
Of course there are still judo schools that teach the old style, with a big focus on submission and submission defense on top of the takedowns amd throws, but those are a small minority. Judo nowadays is more of an olympic sport than a martial art.
It's important to make this distinction because someone might see this video or read this comment and think that if they join a judo school they're gonna learn the same style Kimura-sensei did, when in fact chances are that most of what they'll learn is to score points in front of three judges and maybe a smidge of ground game.
And just to make it clear, this is not a defense of the Gracies or an ad for jiu jitsu. In fact, I don't even think that jiu jitsu is the most effective grappling art. In my opinion that's wrestling, which has been proven to be more effective in mma than any other style of grappling. In fact, reportedly the Gracies had even banned wrestlers from taking part in the first UFC because they knew that Royce wasn't guaranteed a win if they hadn't.
@@outis439-AGracie made the rules and the one who challenged mate, Kimura was gracious enough to accept. Dont be a sore ass
Wasn't Kimura the best Judo fighter, not Jujitsu fighter at that time?
Pencil Jockey The bjj's way of twisting facts to make money
Pencil Jockey Yes, and this was promoted more as a submission judo match. Not a jujitsu match as he claims here. And there sure the hell wasn't 80 lbs difference either. Typical Gracie BS. Imo Helio got destroyed, and WAS finished. What if nobody threw in the towel for poor Helio? I wish they hadn't. That way there would be no wiggle room for Grace BS.
Amén!
In North Korea judo is still called jujitsu.So is Brazil?
goldenhorde1990 Hahahaha! North Korea….
Take away those soft mats and the fight would have ended in seconds with kimura winning.
I think kato would have won too. Nagewaza i think.
+The Joker certainly. a single throw can dislocate his back and end the fight instantly
Lasbury Dabibi These gracies are sore losers. And i hate the butthurt fans of the gracies as well.
ikr
It also would have ended in seconds if Kimura just kept in the choke, but Kimura didn't want to kill Helio
He is just one of the kid who was brainwashed by his family.
Lol what are you morons going on about? Enlighten me.
@@GoatMeal66 gay
@@GoatMeal66 read the top rated post on this video
Goatmeal VR Hi there, I also wanted to agree that you do in fact have gay
Goatmeal VR he’s talking about how a lot of this is misinformation
Helio Gracie was by far the weakest opponent Kimura faced. According to newspapers published in Sao Paulo after the match, Kimura said, “I thought of throwing and choking out Helio in 10 seconds or so. But I toyed with Helio to entertain the spectators, instead.”. Iwao Kanetsuri (Kimura's student at Takushoku University Judo Club, 1971 All Japan Judo Champion), who has watched the entire footage of the match, testified in a Japanese TV program that Kimura caught Helio in choke or armlock more than 20 times at will but deliberately released them to entertain the spectators. In fact, Helio admitted that he had been choked out but was re-activated by Kimura during the match. So, Helio did not have the ability to last 13minutes 20 seconds. Kimura deliberately made Helio last that long. Kimura could have finished Helio at any time, and chose to finish Helio in R2 at 3:20.
In May 1935, Kimura fought Ken-ichirou Oosawa at the 5th dan division championship. Oosawa reversed Kimura's Oo-soto-gari, and slammed Kimura's head onto the floor to score Ippon, rendering Kimura unconscious. Oosawa was the only man in history who made Kimura unconscious.
This happens in boxing all the time as well. It's called "carrying" an opponent. Happens for various reasons- respect for a legend, being told to win by decision bc of Vegas, etc etc
The Gracie's have zero class
generalize is useless, look at Roger Gracie is a true gentleman
@Bruce Wayne not really rener teaches this combatitives which is really more just learning moves but not sparing i can teel you right now to build muscle memory physical toughness and confidence in your ability you have to spa and thats wats great about grappling you can but this new combatitives stuff is garbage and just really there for the majority of weak people to feel good about themselves while renner gets rich
@Bruce Wayne im not trying to be mean but truth is fakse confidence is wrong ive seen how renner and the others teach combatitives one of my friends teaches it and i dont like it i understand not everyone is made for sparring but truth is the street is not forgiving ive done security for 20 years and if it was not for real training i might not be here so again i dont like the way its trained it reminds me of fake martial arts....you have to remember these guys like renner his brother etc did not learn like this they trained hard and had grueling sparing sessions but again theres more money in common people and selling them the idea you dont have to train hard to protect yourself but unfortunatly if you want to react the right way in a serious situation in the real world you do
Brazil bans class in its Constitution. It's worth the death penalty.
If you were really the greatest, then you would not have to blabber on how great you are and bash other styles. But I get it, the loudest and most obnoxious car salesman sells the most cars. In this case, so many buy into the hype.
didnt Kimura broke Helio's arm in this fight? thats conveniently ignored in this recount
gadget00 twice
And got choked out earlier on in the fight if I am not wrong.
He says Helio wouldn't tap and Carlos threw the towel, and then you see Helio shaking his unresponding arm/shoulder on video.
No need to state the obvious
he broked his arm from 3 points and he never claimed he will beat him in 3 min
Seb X: Not obvious in any way. We barely see 1 seconds of footage of them getting up then it cuts back to the narrator.
Rener, you dishonor your family, you dishonor the sport of Judo, you dishonor all those competing in MMA by lying and making excuses. Trust me, Helio's memory and place in martial arts lore is safe without all these lies and this disgusting disrespect of JUDO! Didn't Yoshida tap out Hoyce? what was the excuse there? Was not Yoshida Judoka? So sad.
"Dishonor his family?"
Who do you think told him these lies? He absorbed these stories right along with his mother's milk.
His grandfather and great-uncles were street thugs who ambushed and maimed people in the streets. Not a whole lot of honor there to lose....
shame!
To be fair to Renner he was probably told his grandfather’s side of the story, and is naturally biased because he everyone wants to believe that their ancestors were great
If Kimura had known the lies that the Gracies created, he would have ended the match after 10 seconds, knocking Helio unconscious.
He lost, to a better fighter.Why all the BS around weight advantage etc when the Gracies are always going on and on about GJJ being a system where size and strength can be overcome with technique.Seems Helio didn't possess enough of it then.
Damn Straight!! I'm So sick of the superiority complex! Gracies did not invent Jiu-jitsu for christs sakes, it makes me so frikin sick lately. They owe everything to Maeda, plain and simple. I'm coming out of my skin because I used to like people like Anderson Silva and and other BJJ'ers, but the more I think about it, he dominated with technical striking, BJJ had nothing to do with it.
From my understanding, Helio said that when you have two equally skilled practitioners in Jiu-Jitsu the stronger and heavier opponent will win. Jiu-Jitsu was designed for the weaker smaller victim of an attack to be able to defend himself against a larger, aggressive and unskilled (in Jiu-Jitsu) attacker.
C.Duncan Sutherland GJJ is Judo ne-waza. Look at who trained Helio: Maeda was a Judoka, not a Ju-jitsu fighter. Of course Kimura knew everything Helio knew.
Still don't like how the gracies cheated by putting extra-padding in the mat. Those throws should have knocked out Helio. On the street, Kimura would have cracked his skull with those throws.
BloodofPatriots
They also cheated when the match wasn't declared over with while Helio was held unconscious.
lastuvthe they didnt claim to invent jujustu so dont put words in peoples mouths, they dont owe everything to maeda but they owe a lot, but they made changes and refined moves to make their own system. what you basically said is that all of the old karate masters owe everything to the kung fu masters they learned from even though they made changes.
Kimura and Kato were judoka not jiu-jitsuka
+Dominik Doherty In general there was no difference at that time between jiu-jitsu and judo. In Japan the name judo gained dominace only in the 1930s and in the rest of the world at the end of 1950s. Before it had been common to call judo just jiu-jitsu or when stressing the school Kano's jiu-jitsu
www.graysongenders.com/the-complete-kano-jiu-jitsu-jiudo.html
+Alexader Balalaikin youre wrong.
+Alexader Balalaikin considering judo came from jiu-jitsu..
Imagine if Kimura was a Jiu jistu fighter
Because he was a judoka
Kimura broke this guy grandfather arm and nearly kill him and this guy still telling lies & bullshits, decades later Sakubara murdered all the Gracie family except for Rickson, he was chickened out worried he might be murdered by Sakubara as well, come on bro, you guys learned the beautiful art from the Japanese, I'm sure Meada taught your grandfather respect as well, have some real respect for the Kimura and accept defeat, make sure to teach your kids or students not to stomp on any Judo champs heads when they lost to your choke like one of your uncle did
@Mitch They probably chickened out using a lame excuse like, "Bas doesn't have the spirit of a warrior", believe it or not they've used that one before haha bunch of pansies
@Mma 101 Ricksons record is padded and not even verifiable. He wasnt a bum but hardly the GOAT they all try to make him out to be.
Mitch dude. Bas Rutten got subbed by Ken Shamrock more than once. You really think Rickson would have lost to him? Can I have whatever super crack you’re smoking?
@@BoogieDownProduction Rickson is 400 and 0. It's a fact!
That is truth, Kimura broke Helio arm, and in Kimura biograth caled " My Judo" he says that, and all the people present there saw that broking arm, Why keeping lying, changing true facts, Helio was very brave and did not tap, Why dont say what really happens
“I never expected to beat that Japanese champ”
>literally brings a coffin for the guy
The Gracie family confuse pride with honor, Honor would be calling Kimura what he was, a JUDO practitioner, NOT Jiu-Jitsu. Contrary to the Gracie belief structure, their family style (Jiu-Jitsu) is not the apex of martial arts, there is NO apex of martial arts in a single style.
Refusing to tap is also a sign of pride over honor, he was defeated and he knew it, but he didn't have the respect and honor to admit his own defeat to his opponent. He had to leave the open excuse that his brother forfeited for him.
and for the record the weight difference for this bout was closer to 10 pounds, nowhere near the 80 pounds explained in this video.
They should be praised for is making it clear that serious grappling skills are needed to be a complete martial artist, but not creating the greatest martial art ever. That's just silly bravado.
SEKYHM Judo, JuJutsu... semantics. What's true is that BJJ really stands for Basically Japanese Jujutsu :) I trained 42 years Kodokan Judo. Kodokan newaza eminates from Kansai region in Japan... where the predominant JJ ryu was grappling based. Kano's Kodokan fighters were losing challenges to these guys so Kano sent down his best Kano 'Jujutsuka' as they were then known to Kansai (Osaka region) to learn this art. He then incorporated it into Kodokan Judo (Jujutsu) as Newaza (or more formally Katamewaza). This art evolved almost independently into Kosen Judo. It's important to realise that the big reason for JJ becoming Judo was that JJ was frowned upon as low culture (for ruffians) by polite society in Japan... so Kano decided to rename it Judo which would be far more acceptable to polite society and then be easier to popularise through the education system. I have seen the way the Kosen Judoka 'roll'. Still active Kosen Judo clubs in Kyoto, Tokyo, Nagoya, Hokaido and 3 other universities that I cannot remember at the moment. It's clear to me what BJJ really is. The tragedy is that all those GJJ and BJJ and MJJ fighters are really just doing Kosen judo. But the real Kosen guys know how to fight tachiwaza (stand-up) too... have a long history and culture and ethos... have all the Kodokan Katas, have a philosophy... and roots. The BJJ guys on the other hand don't really have that much. Some good grappling methods... but really nothing the Kosen haven't got also. I respect them as good fighters... but am a little sorry for them. It's a shame... and they will always be the lesser becos of breaking away from their roots. Unfortunately I can only conclude it was for commercial reasons in the main. A very unfortunate turn of events.
+SEKYHM Judo is a form of jiu-jitsu (regardless of how you spell it).
Edmond Dantez but an evolution of JJJ and not BJJ
Daniel I I'm sorry, you're going to have to be more clear than that.
First of all when Rener says number one and two best "Jiu-Jitsu" fighters in Japan that is a lack of respect for Judo. Kimura was all Japan JUDO Champion! Second, Kimura had been retired from Judo for almost 12-years and Kato the same at the time of the fight. Let this fight take place out in the street on the pavement and this fight is over in 1-minute.
Amen
Vocês são loucos? O Kimura era muito mais pesado que o Helio, Nas regras do judô o peso sempre foi referencia.
Thing is the art of bjj is to take a less heavy little person and be able to defend vs a bigger one. This is not the true fact when both are good and know how to do Jujitsu.
En esa epoca en JUDO no se tomaba en cuenta el peso, incluso todavia hoy existe la copa KODOKAN que es el unico torneo abierto de judo en el mundo...es una gran realidad una cosa es en tatami y otra en pavimento pero aun asi me queda la duda de la pelea de KATO, que hubiera pasado si la pelea no hubiera habido soga ya que HELIO a quien no le resto su excepcional calidad de peleador de ne waza hubiera caido bajo el control de KATO despues de ese extraordinario estrallon...????
Yep One thing that everyone has to understand two is this not judo know that you don't go to guy going against Heilo. They were DZR Japanese jujitsu! Even when the Gracie was taught it was through Judo! The Count was a thrower taught Judo through a RYU way.
I have taken Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and really respected the Gracie name up until I saw this video.
If something is made up of over exaggeration, un-truths or false witness then you just stop believing in it.
After today I will just think of the Gracie name as a more un-truthful, better at making excuses and rewriting history when you lose.
wikipedia describes the thing a bit differently:
1) the weight difference was reported to be more like 25-35lbs (based on their weight-ins from previous fights)
2) Helio Gracie was to face Kato who was LOWEST ranking (not second) fighter in Kimura's trupe. he was thought of as a (relatively) novice fighter.
3) the whole thing wasHelio Gracie's idea - they'd fight their respective apprentices first to prove their worthiness. Kimura was scheduled to fight Pedro Hemeterio to prove his worthiness. (wiki doesn't say if that fight actually happened or not - either it didn't happen and Gracie decided he'd fight Kimura right away after all, or it was not noteworthy)
4) Gracie did choke out Kato, but in a disputable situation which should have been stopped by the referee - they were tangled in ropes which limited Kato's mobility. As was also immediately pointed out by brazillian press at the time.
5) Gracies corner threw in the towel but only after Kimura broke or dislocated his arm (after also rendering him unconscious earlier). idk what the rules were but, aparently, Helio being unconscious was not a reason for stoppage.
read the full wiki article here - it's interesting. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masahiko_Kimura_vs._H%C3%A9lio_Gracie
A Wikipedia meus ovos! Fonte de merda..
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 it's a better source than "my grandfather won by losing"
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 I didn't like what a BJJ guy said to me, so I used my words. He was so shocked, guy called me a violent fucker and apologized.
look at those 2 guys. Does it really look like only 25 lbs difference to you? lol
He knew he was gonna lose?
This is what Kimura said:
"20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm [5'11"] and 81 kg [180#]. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in."
Yeah, he knew he was gonna lose....Right.
+Andrie Mantik Agree this is total BS. Gracie had the rules changed as well. Why have the rules changed if you were planning to lose? Fact is that Kimura won.
+NHBbroadcast Exactly!
+NHBbroadcast Gracies ALWAYS want to handicap rules, even to this day.
+vivelajonny GJJ is GREAT!! For what it is, but it is not everything, it is not the greatest, it is not unbeatable. First Rule of fighting, for your life in real life, is you DO NOT WANT TO GO DOWN ONTO THE GROUND. Cuz only bad things can happen to you. Just as you do not want to go into the water and try to fight. Yes, you fight by their Rules, their way, so that they win, or you don't fight. Go away. If they lose, no one will ever see it, hear about it, speak about, know about it. They will deny it or minimize it. You add or do one little thing that does not comport to their Rules, and they will whine and cry about, and usually lose (cuz they don't know about such a technique, they are not expecting it, it is not part of the standard repertoire you are suppose to follow, so they are surprised by it). Like fighting someone who actually knows how to punch and/or kick!! Now that would be refreshing for a change, IF they ever did that!! You can't do wrist locks or finger locks, you can't do toe, ankle, or Achilles locks (maybe not even knee locks, I'm not sure of that one). Can't kick or strike to the groin or throat or eyes, etc.. You can't do this, you can't do that. You can't punch this way, to this part of the body, you can't kick this way to that part of the body, etc, etc, etc.. All Their Rules!! Everyone that fights just falls right in line with their Rules. Why? That I have never understood. How about challenging them to a fight, and OUR RULES are you CANNOT tackle, takedown, or do down onto the ground. Would they except? How about you can't grab, choke, or do armbars! Would they except? So of course they (challengers) lose most all of the time. But not all of the time. If someone, of suitable age, healthy, in shape, and up on their training were to challenge them to a truly "REAL FIGHT", with NO RULES except don't kill, paralyze, or permanently maim/cripple, or blind the other person. Would they except and fight in such a "REAL FIGHT"? Without their "entourage" outnumber the other guy's people 20 or 30 to 1. I hope they never get lost in NYC some night, and walk down the wrong street (I'm talking alone, one person). How many have ever served in the Military and fought, for life and death, in REAL COMBAT? Real Hand to Hand Combat? I refer you to that video of several MMA guys, including some current Champion and Dana White, who went to a U.S. Marines Martial Arts training camp, to do real life in the field, situational fighting. They ALL got their asses kicked!!! Then if you say that you will (do nasty things in violation of their Rules), or you could have, or you actually did. Then all they do is threaten you that if you tried or did do it they'd break your neck, smash your head open, break your arm, rip your arm off, or kill you. Then if you actually did do something and WON! Then all of their family members, friends, cohorts, students, etc, standing around (which usually seem to count in the dozens) will jump all over you, beat the crap out of you, break numerous parts on you, if not kill you. Then the video will disappear and never be seen. I have seen/heard them say such things in a number of videos of fights they have had with non-GJJ/BJJ guys. When in fact, if the guy had done such things to Gracie guy, then Gracie guy would not have been able to have done anything, would have been knocked out, in excruciating pain, disabled, blinded, etc.. Oh! But of course doing such things to a Gracie, GJJ/BJJ guy is impossible, cuz they are superior human beings, the greatest martial artists in the world. But then, all of the Gracie crowd would then kill the guy. Every time you see any Gracie fight, there is always a huge group around them. Why? I have stood alone my entire life. Did Bruce Lee go around with a group of people around him? I think not!!! Didn't the first Gracie guy who started in the UFC thing, who was touted as the world's greatest martial artist in the world's greatest martial art, who was unbeatable, get his ass whooped and did absolutely nothing at ONLY age 40 against Matt Hughes? Humm? Where did all these skills, training, experience, expertise, toughness, and invincibility go? Hell I'm 56 years old, permanently injured, out of shape, skill, and training, and I would have made a better showing against Matt Hughes than that Gracie guy did. All he did was show up drugged out of his mind with pain killers, do nothing, then turn chicken shit and turn over onto his face/front on the mat. Then Matt Hughes pounded the crap out of him from on top. What kind of an effort and showing is that? I would love to know if my first martial arts instructor is still training and in shape. He'd be about 64 or 65 years old now. If he is even half in shape and in training, he'd destroy any of these GJJ/BJJ/MMA guys in as little amount of time as he desired. He was maybe about 5' 9+", trim, strong, fit, zero fat, with unmatched stamina, a distance runner, fast as lightening with unbelievable power in his punches and kicks. Impeccable timing and distancing. Incredible defenses. He could pick a point on your body, in the midst of a fight, time your blinking, and then BLAST!! you at that point. Knockout points.. temple, chin, throat, solar plexus, groin, cerebral cortex, top of skull, etc.. Not a damn thing you could do about it. He'd go right thru your guard and defenses. All of this tackling GJJ/BJJ does as their ONLY offensive move would not work on this guy (since they cannot punch or kick for crap!!). You try it on this guy, and you are opening yourself up and exposing yourself. He'd BLAST you in a fraction of a second. He'd punch and/or kick you (full power and speed and precision) 6-8 times in 1 second!! NO BULL!! Then that would be that!! KAPUT!! I would really love to have seen that. I never got anywhere near as good as he was. I wonder what happened to him? Humm??? I'll have to look him up. Ever one I ever knew who was a great fighter, is old now, probably have a lot of injuries set in, out of shape, or gave it up do to other obligations (family, have to earn a living, etc). Granted it is a young man's game, but 40 isn't old, not if you are a TRUE Martial Artist.
+Andrie Mantik Are you sure is was not 2,000,000 people? Come on now, it's GracieLand after all. Don't the Gracie's own Brazil by now?
"Helio Gracie faced Masahiko Kimura who outweighed him by nearly 80 lbs", translated as Disgracies lie to make excuses.
"The Japanese Giant", Helio was a full foot taller than Kimura.
Funny how the Disgracies talk mad smack when they win a match and make excuses and cry when they lose.
They are a bunch of dishonorable, whiny little girls that ripped off Judo Newaza and never even bothered to give credit to the Judo movement.
Looks like someone's a bit butthurt. Want to jump in the BJJ bandwagon or what?
I lol'd so hard at "Disgracies"
Martial Arts Critic He wants his ass beat in every sense of the word it seems.
YeshuaisShekinah THIS! thanks for saying it im glad to see many others see throught their bullshit
Got this from someone else's comment. BJJ stands for Basically Japanese Judo lol .
This is nonsense,the 80lb weight difference is just a complete lie. Gracie's team brought in a coffin to the fight for Kimura, so I don't see any respect or humility there. Besides, even 1 throw is enough to end a fight, Kimura threw Gracie clean to the ground at least 20 times with ease.
Gracies make excuses :\ Judo over BJJ any day of the week!
Helio was 7 feet shorter than Kimura and weighed 200 pounds less than him. Helio was just recovering from tuberculosis and knew Kimura was on the juice, but still accepted the fight.
Then, mercifully, Helio allowed Kimura to have his arm for a faux-submission to allow Kimura to save face in his native Japan - sepuku the only accepted option for defeat.
God bless you Gracies, you dutiful historians, for reporting the truth 🙏
:D
I heard he was 10ft 2 inches and had the strength of 6 Silverback Gorillas, and Helio was like a small Ant man compared to him.
Yeah, he was on the juice before the juice existed as well.
Man these Gracies are something else... defend each other to the bloody end. They must consider each other undefeated lol
+pablopicazos Well IF they ONLY fight eachother, then I guess they are Undefeated.........right? LOL.
pablopicazos it's all about the Gracie BJJ brand name. It was the last time a Gracie lost to a Japanese jujitsu/judo guy.
Correct. Rickson is 400-0 and Kron just won with Cub Swanson. No Gracie has ever lost a round in any fight ever.
@dom com. I know man, I was being sarcastic. The Gracies dont' even wualify as sore losers, they are flat out delusional . I mean, Kron even thinks the Earth is flat. Lol.
What scam lmao.
Together with wrestling and judo bjj has proven to be vital in a well rounded mma fighter.
Stop trying to make your grandfather look like he knew he was going to lose . Your grandfather didn't know if he was going to lose or not.
+Tou Chang If he didn't know, then why make the mats softer, or make it a no points match?
He knew full well what the outcome would be if he did a points match. He thought a draw would be better than a loss due to throws.
+Tou Chang Going up against the All Japan Judo Champion, who outweighs him by 80 lbs? Please!!
+William “The Dragonslayer” Schrimsher But it was not a Judo match, by Judo Tournament Rules, it was an Open Judo/Ju Jitsu Match, with some Rules. No punches or kicks, etc.
+aspenrebel 80 pounds is bullshit, its an excuse the gracies use. Kimura wasnt that much heavier
+aspenrebel So you're saying Kimura, at 5'7, was 260 lbs during their match? Please! The Gracie family is renowned for their excuses and sore loser attitude (except Renzo). Kimura was only 8 kg heavier than Helio.
Imagine getting your ass beat so hard that one of the techniques in your "martial art" is named after the guy that destroyed you.
knew he was gonna lose?? yeah right! That just makes it sound better than losing becuz he was full of himself. Helio got thrown around becuz he wasnt into throwing period. Maybe he shouldve just butt scooted around Kimura.
I agree with James Deen here, also the weight difference was 10 pounds. rener just doesn't give any credit to kimura.. he's a dick sometimes.
dont get me wrong though, I respect all the gracies, some more then others. I have huge respect for rickson, renzo and kron. I have quite some respect for rener and rorion. I have a little little bit respect for royce and royler.. but that's just my likings. idk if i respect royler.. but i dont want to start a war on here
Hyborian Warlord Masahiko Kimura (1917-1993), judo 7th dan obtained at age 29, is undoubtedly the greatest Judoka to ever live. He stood 5'6" (170 cm) tall and weighed 185 pounds (84kg). (judoinfo. com)
Weight 84kg (wifipedia. cum)
found that by using google. what did you google?
Hyborian Warlord
Helio Gracie - Want to know more about the man who ... Given Helio's somewhat diminutive size (it is reported he weighed 155 pounds . (I do suck at math but the weight difference wasn't that big.. pedro sauer vs that steriod bodybuilder was 100 pounds difference. I'd say kimura was just better.)
CaSdeStrontPomper And that is the truth, some people believe Kimura was like Brock Lesnar
I do have respect for the Gracies, but I think they are not giving good facts about Kimura and Helio fight. Kimura weighted 84 kilos (185 pounds) and was 1.70 mts. Helios was 1.75 mts (5 cm taller than Kimura), so, in order to the facts given in this video, Helio must have weighted 48 kilos, and that's just ridiculous. You don't have to lie about the facts in order to prove the point that gjj is a great martial art. Gjj is great, so is judo. Kimura was a better fighter, that's all. Btw, Helio defeated fighters waaay heavier than Kimura.
***** Tuesday October 23 1951 at the time of the fight Helio weighed in at 139 lbs against Kimura’s 210lbs
where did u get your stats from bro wiki lol
Surfing the net bro, that and common sense. If Kimura weighed 95 kilos he would look a lot more beefed up in his 1.70 mts (and if you look at the video, you will notice that Helio is taller). But, my point is, that before Kimura, Helio defeated bigger and stronger opponents (that was the main virtue of GJJ), so what makes Kimura any different? The fact that he was a better fighter (Helio was really good, but lost this one, excuses just make it worst).
nope wiki and 2 other sites one from a reporter at the event and bro your abbit late by wat only 3 months lol and its perfectly normal for sumone at 5"9 to weigh 139 there 6"3 ufc fighters that weigh that much lol we are not all fat and yes i know Helio beat bigger people no one ever said it was cos he was bigger he beat him Helio himself excepts the lost lol but the weighs seem perfectly fine
Boondock Saint wiki says and other site say he was 80kgs so how much do you think Helio weighted in at cos w/e he was Kimura was around 80 pounds more in that fight.
the lowest stats i can fined about the fight all say Kimura was 50 to 80 thats 22kgs to 36kgs more not that much when u look at it in kgs.
but this is why if Kimura was 185pounds Heilo would be 50 to 80 less lol
prove me wrong mate gimme a link anything.
and for the weighs i said 6,3 as example
but there over 20 fight 5,11 and 6,0 at Featherweight 65kgs and Bantamweight 61kgs thay dont look like there just got out of a concentration camp or had massive diarrhea.
George Roop is 6ft1 at 61kgs Cole Miller is 6ft1 at 65kgs there is allot more out there
jiujitsu fighter ? wasn't Kimura a judoka ?
yes he was
Joos Wulfe yeah and also a great pro wrestler
He was a Judoka. Also BJJ comes from traditional Judo.
People don't realize that winning domestic Judo tournament in Japan is actually harder than winning in Olympic.
Also Judo's technique is way deeper than BJJ.
More evidence of sore losers:
Interview with HELIO GRACIE
From Playboy (Brazilian Edition) February 2001
PLAYBOY] And took the title?
HELIO: I didn't win because my brother [Carlos] threw in the towel for me when he saw that I had fallen victim to an army-lock. Kimura tried to leave the ring. A judge asked me and I confirmed, because I knew my brother had thrown in the towel and it would have been dishonest to deny it. *But I didn't consider that [Kimura] had really beaten me* [não me considerei verdadeiramente vencido]
After watching this video, I have a lot less respect to the Gracie family.
Kimura was a judoka , yes , but judo was much more menacing back in the days . throws , sweeps , chokes , joint-locks , fixations , ground game ... all these were usual tools in judo back then . Helio was no match for Kimura . Kimura was too damn skillful and awfully strong . Helio was in a really life threatening situation . my opinion .
Judo itself hasn't changed, its just the sporting element has effected the way some schools teach it. It depends on what school you learn from. Some Judo schools just want to focus on getting their students to win competitions to gain recognition for the school, so they don't focus on the Newaza (groundwork) as much as the Nagewaza (throws). But if you go to a quality dojo you will learn the whole syllabus both the stand up and the ground work + the forbidden techniques. For example at my dojo we spend 50/50 on our feet and on the ground, because of this I can roll with and submit BJJ guys despite still being a white belt at BJJ.
AWKWARDlink Do they give you any atemiwaza training?
For me personally no, as atemiwaza is usually taught after the shodan level and to be honest it doesn't look that great, but if your interested in atemiwaza, Jujutsu (not BJJ) and Karate have much better focus on it than Judo.
Depends! If they focus on avoiding takedowns and such you take the bbj guy out of his element.
SLITTHROAT13 No atemiwaza until you make shodan. At least that's the traditional method of teaching.
why do brazilian "jiu jitsu" historians always say that kimura and kato were "jiu jitsu" fighters? they were kodokan JUDO fighters and representatives oj japan. or am I wrong here?
because Jiu Jitsu is from Judo which focused on ground skills so actually there are nothing different between two of martial arts ..it's more like Judo(jujitsu) is father of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu... duh ..
In fact, you are distorting the information, Judo focuses on standing fighting with ground parts, Jiu-Jitsu focuses on ground fighting with standing parts. Don't try to hide the truth.@@bagirockcarlguksoo1786
Huge respect for one of the best judokas in history kimura-sensei
Every night, before the Gracie's tuck their children into bed, they check the closet and under the bed for Kimura.
They also read them th bedtime story their great grand-dad fighting the 12 foot 900lb titan that bullied the whole country of Brazil and faught in a valiant effort.
It only took 7 different Gracies to beat Sakuraba and they said he got lucky all 7 times when one of them finally won. So much arrogance and bitterness.
Royce also tested positive for steroids. Shameful.
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 No i would get my ass kicked, Everything I said was true though.
@@ALEN1ful ok man, i'll believe you, but remember "anything that is asserted without proof can without proof be denied" Epicurus @-@. Hahaha now no jokes or philosophical maxims, feel free to come to Brazil, you will be treated like a native, very well.
There is video footage of Sakuraba beating Gracies dude. Just youtube it.
You cant use Samurai as an example considering you have no idea what kind of training and abilities they had. come on.
Jiujitsu was developed and practiced by the samurai. When you train jiujitsu you are training in the martial art of the samurai.
this fight was totally bullshit. There were alot of dirty tricks. Graice intentionally changed to rules to put Kimura in disavantage. Knowing that throwing is one main component in Judo( Kimura and Kato were Judo pratitioners not Ju jit su), the Gracie set the rule the only submission would be counted toward victory.
On top of that, Gracie also used the mats that were abnormally softer than traditional judo mats at that time. Kimura recalled that because of the soft mats, Gracie was able to tolerate forceful throws that would had been able to knock outs Kimura's other opponents in previous judo matches. Without the mats ,Gracie would have been finished.
Although doing all of the dirty tricks, Gracie still could not win the fight. What a shame!!!!
+An Dinh Yes, and further, doing a Judo Hold Down technique would not give Kimura the win. It had to be a "submission", an armbar or choke where Helio "tapped out", for the win. Also, no kicks, punches, elbows, or knees. Nothing to groin or eyes, no "rabbit punches". Also, I think no knee, ankle, foot, toe, wrist, or finger locks. Had punching and kicking been permitted, Kimura would have pounded the crap out of Helio. It is little known to most people, but they actually do train in some basic punches and kicks in Judo (similar to Karate), once a person attains first degree black belt (shodan). It is a part of Judo, the martial art, just not part of Judo, the Sport.
+aspenrebel Very few people know that Kimura sensei was a high-grade blackbelt in kyokushin karate, trained by Mas Oyama. Helio would have been destroyed if it was a no-rules fight
The Gracies picked a format that more accurately resembled a real fight. Fights don't always end just because you throw someone.
Submission-only fights are the most realistic kind of fight.
@@tjl4688 are u intoxicated. The most realistic fight format is MMA where everything is allowed.
"His loss to Kimura was considered on of his biggest victories."
LOL
I challenge you to say this on Brazilian sacred soil.
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 you mean me saying lol or me quoting a sentence from this video? You're ridiculous....
@@dr.doppeldecker3832 say 'lol', is that 'lol' in Portuguese means: "I have sex through the butt". Ok, I'm ridiculous, but you're not Brazilian, so everything says it has no value, become Brazilian first
@@sakakapikanoseukuu2790 why do you assume i am not a Brasilian?
@@dr.doppeldecker3832 my bot checked your ip :)
As I understand it, the competition was completely rigged in Helio's favour by him setting rules that disadvantaged Kimura's expertise. Then, when Kimura broke Helio's arm, Helio, (more prideful than brave) refused to tap, and Kimura was forced to break it a SECOND time until Helio's side threw in the towel.
Huge respect to Helio for his fighting ability and tenacity, but contempt for his arrogance and the dishonesty of the Gracie family in trying to spin this incident.
+Mat Broomfield Helio's arm was not broken in the match. There is a picture of him after the fight with that arm raised above his head. Injured? Yes. Broken? No.
+Edmond Dantez You can break your arm and still lift it. From UFC's website:
"Way back in 1951, Masahiko Kimura locked a reverse ude-garami on Helio Gracie and started to slowly twist. Rather than surrendering, Gracie let his shoulder become dislocated, and his arm broken before his corner finally threw in the towel."
Mat Broomfield I asked Helio this specific question in 1997. He told me quite clearly that arm was not broken.
***** Yes but not only on his word. there is a photograph of him immediately after the match with that arm raised over his head. Difficult to do that with a broken arm.
***** Do you believe everything Kimura ever said or wrote?
Um dos maiores problemas dos Gracies é não aceitarem derrotas, sempre inventam alguma desculpa ou desvantagem. Nesse caso, já vi várias vezes o argumento de que Kimura era muito maior e mais forte que Hélio, o que nitidamente não é verdade. Pode ser até um pouco mais pesado, mas mais alto com certeza não era.
"o que nitidamente não é verdade" que isso, o cara perdeu, mas o Kimura é bem maior que ele, e isso sempre foi prosital, para ninguém falar que a vitória foi dos gracies pq mandaram um gigante
@Mateus Barreto, you are absolutely right, Kimura-sensei was pretty muscular, but he was about 80 kg and Helio was about 75 kg and 5-10 cm taller. And Helio was not a "weak skinny guy" like Gracies like to say. Yes, he was pretty weak before he started judo (as taught by Maeda-sensei) when he was a little kid, but he practiced every day, got strong and tough and was a wiry strong guy when fighting Kimura-sensei in 1951.
@@CarlosAlbertoBrasil o helio é literalmente mais alto. isso da vantagem em envergadura.
@@flowrepins6663 nem adianta falar para esses caras, o que sempre acontece com os Gracie quando não querem assumir uma derrota
No way did kimura outweigh helio by 80lbs , may be 30lbs at the most and the weight advantage is lost because helio is 5 inches taller than him
Helio was 80kg and Kimura was 85kg so 11 lbs of difference.
elNino Tuesday October 23 1951 at the time of this fight Helio weighed in at 139 lbs against Kimura’s 210lbs
codi gibbs ...I've been following combat sport all my life particularly boxing ....and my guess at their weights and height is ...Gracie 6 foot 1 inch and weighing 150 lbs ...kimura is 5 foot 8 inches tall and a portly 185 lbs ( at the most ) ....
Codi Gibbs Not 210, 180
Kimura is judoka not jiujitsu, sorry gracie you lie this time
rener gracie: the definition of possessing no stand-up
mike tyson, muhamed ali, (and dozens of others):definition of possesing no ground game.
Johnathan Morrow they're boxers not mma fighters.
Laurence Sherrington exactly and the gracies are jiujitsu fighters.
Johnathan Morrow that doesn't make sense, they fought in mma, Muhammed Ali and mike Tyson didn't. Thus they didn't want or need to possess a ground game. As gracies fought in mma. Thus should have a mixture of martial arts.
Laurence Sherrington they are JIUJITSU fighters. so therefore their skill set is with grappling. they do not care to have great stand up. so criticizing a jiujitsu fighers stand up is like criticizing a boxers ground game.
Kimura was greatest ! And it's not about the art it's about YOU !
and wiki pedia page says this "In a 1994 interview with Yoshinori Nishi, Helio Gracie admitted that he had been rendered unconscious very early in the bout by a body vise although Kimura released the hold and continued the bout."
invinciblekd This
Dont send wrong information. Difference was 25 pounds i think but not 80 pounds. Im not trying to diminish what he did but not 80 pounds.
I think it's funny how the Gracies get mad at Eddie Bravo for "taking their techniques and renaming them", but that is literally what they did to Judo techniques.
Ya. Kimura did not look 80 lbs heavier lol.
Lol
Another Gracie bullshiter
Kimura the Judoka was better.End of story.
.............what did you say there you liar!!! 80 pounds heavier???he was 9 ,NINE pounds heavier...why you are such a damn liar boy?
Kimura (5 ft 7in 170 cm; 85 kg, 187 lb)------Helio was 175cm [5'9"] and 81 kg (178lb)..
Just for the records, I met personally Helio Gracie in Rio de Janeiro. He was really thin, he weighted around 140 lb his whole career.
Rafael Guimarães and Milifangr.
More likely 155-165 ibs when he was younger though.
I'm 5'10 and he look bigger than me, and I'm 163ibs. But "bigger" don't mean weight. However it wouldn't be more than 10ibs difference between us.
Perhaps I am missing something, but Kimura was the Judo Champion and his training was in Judo. Why does Gracie keep calling Kimura's art Japanese Ju Jitsu?Japanese Jujitsu is distinct from Judo, so why does he keep conflating the two? I'm not a Gracie hater but is he simply trying to avoid acknowledging that a highly trained Judoka defeated BJJ? Is he simply trying to avoid pointing out that the styles are comparable or equal in effectiveness?
Sakuraba pimped all the gracias in his prime. Hands down the best fighter of the era. Sakuraba is the MAN!
Gracie's revisionist history once again.
How come Rickson wanted to fight a senior citizen who outweighs him but wouldn't fight Benny "the Jet" Urquidez who was smaller than him?
Where's the warrior spirit when you show up with half your family surround a guy on a beach in Brazil sucker punch him and your camera work disappears as your family swarm the fight?
Obviously not 80 pounds difference. Maybe 20.
ElephantRage no maybe 35 or 40 helio chest and collar bone show as if he starving lol
#GracieDiet
Kimura was a Judoka... I don't understand where you get Japanese Jiu Jitsu from... Gracie Jiu Jitsu is literally just the ground game from Judo with addition to some new submissions.
When Sakuraba beat Royce. The Gracies said the same thing. They said he was a Jiu-Jitsu Fighter. HElio, I believe mentioned it in a translated interview on Full Contact Fighter.
Kimura was a judoka, not a jiu jitsuka. He held the 7th dan in Judo and karate, but didn't practice jiu jitsu
You forget that Judo is just the sports form of traditional Japanese Jujitsu. Back in the old days Judo was still frequently referred to as Jujitsu.
Yes you are correct, I practice both aswell and it's also true that it was indeed often referred to as Jiu Jitsu. I've even heard that Jiu Jitsu was sometimes referred to as Judo, amongst countless other names… Yet still, that what is nowadays described as Jiu Jitsu, including mainly self-defense techniques is very different to what Kimura practiced, as he focused on competition and techniques that were suited best for winning them. This leads to my point: Rener Gracie still referring to him as Jiu Jitsuka… well I don't think it's adequate in this case. But I agree with you, if looking at it in the historical background, it's definitely acceptable to call him a Jiu Jitsuka. I'd still prefer to differentiate.
Machampion100 The japanese art judo comes from was called jujUtsu. I find it weird that people want to impose the brazilian spelling and pronunciation on it these days
Judo had been the official names since the founding of the Kodokan in 1882. By the time of this fight in 1951, Judo had been the official name for 69 years and NO ONE was referring to it as Kano Jujutsu any more. Fuck off with your lies.
Helio was a 6th Dan in Judo according to Kimura himself.
Just to clarify for everyone back in the day Judo and Jujitsu were interchangeable terms basically meaning the same art. Kano himself was trained in classical Jujitsu and just subtracted the techniques that he thought were inefficient or crude. For a while Judo was commonly referred to as "Kano's Jujitsu".
Boondock Saint I am just providing people with a historical context to understand why it was not incorrect for Rener Gracie to call Kimura a "Jujitsu fighter".
Your statement could be true for the first years after kodokan judo was created (1882); the match was held in 1951, and judo was already a well known martial art practiced all over the world, soon to be an olympic sport. I think that Rener Gracie addressing it as “japanese jujitsu” is just a way of delegitimise judo and its superiority (at least in the match between kimura vs Gracie).
The old man Helio "invented" Brazilian Jiu jutsu because he didn't like the rough and tumble that is expected of Judo, deciding to take from Judo only the ground techniques to "create" his own so called Brazilian Jiu jutsu school.
Dang that Kimura is a boss. He foretold the future for Helio Gracie, then went and proved his point like a boss. Boss status. Much respect.
Kimura was a Judoka not a jujitsu fighter
He knew he was gonna lose? Idk, sounds like some ego saving bs. Much respect to the Gracies though.
sometimes you have to fight a fight that you know means a loss, and sometimes will even result in death. Death before dishonor.
Esses Gracie ainda falam p/ caralho ! O Wallid enfilerou vários , e o Renzo continua correndo dele , o Sakuraba tb enfilerou vários , inclusive o Ryan e ainda ficaram preservando o Rickson p/ vergonha não ser completa kkkkkkk ! Os Gracie não são mais nada ! Ta cheio de brasileiros e gringos que detonam vcs tanto no tatame qto no octagon !
It's impressive how can such a severe and embarrassing ass whooping can be so distorted...
Behind the propaganda and simply resuming this match => Imagine Pelé vs the best japanese footballer of its time with inverted roles... Difference is, best japanese footballer of the time couldnt care less with his image or propaganda... If Hélio would be humble enough no one would even know who he was... Not even the most prominent of the Gracie´s, by far.
I'm so surprised that the Gracie Kids are not responding nor refuting any comments here. If they don't want to, why can't they just produce another video on refuting these comments? What? Are they hiding? If they are convinced of what Helio told them, they should be defending their family's reputation, right? If they like putting Metamoris Pro or any "Gracie Challenge", they should be talking about this other than just the fighting aspect of 'their' Martial Art!
I trained under Royler's school - they didn't spread any of these lies from Rener; we were taught up front that Helio totally lost to Kimura and that Kimura snapped Helio's arm three times before Carlos threw in the towel.