Carlos Sr. vs Helio: The Truth About the Gracie Family History and Politics - Jiu-Jitsu School Time
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
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I thought I was going to hate this video but it's surprisingly accurate and informative. Well done!
no.
@@KamaJiuJitsu is this the real you?
am i the real me?
@@JoeMoss83 no
Its prob just GSP trollin.
Rolls is Jon Snow 😮
I don’t think it’ll ever unify sadly. I think it will continue like judo: most schools focusing on sport with only a few here and there focusing on the entire art and its self defense applications.
Very informative - thank you! My old teacher is a black belt under Pedro Sauer (student of Rickson). He told me that the real difference between the two camps was that Helio’s lineage was more “small guy” Jiu-Jitsu, where the Carlos side was rougher, more competitive and more athletic.
What does "small guy" jiu jitsu mean
Ben if u are 130 pounds you are a small guy, can’t over power your rival so you have to find other ways and techniques
Really? My teacher is also a 3rd degree black belt under Pedro. What’s your professors name?
@@Ben-fx9kx its hilarious, wild-disrespectful, and gives all kinda clues into their family dynamics because I'm pretty sure what he means by that phrase is "technical" and probably more tied into the original judo teachings 🤣 Families are so petty 🤣🤣🤣
@@elbalsero4428 technical, dude, he meant technical lol. If you just constantly overpower your opponent then congratulations, you will win in street fights but paid your money and time to learn nothing from BJJ
Well, after reading a whole lot of comments below I just have to make an observation. I was one of Rorion's first students when he was teaching out of his garage in Redondo Beach, Calif. Royce joined him a short time later as did Rickson. Other than high school and college wrestling, nobody was teaching anything like GJJ. There were all types of judo schools and karate and many other varieties of striking arts and aikido. I was there when Rorion challenged all comers from whatever art form they were involved in. He instructed his students to make challenges on his behalf. I watched as Rorion, Royce and Rickson took on all kinds of black belts from many other art forms. They won all their fights. Eventually Chuck Norris and other martial arts masters were drawn to this "new" art form called "Gracie Jiu Jitsu." Chuck Norris had Rorion and Royce give seminars to his instructors only after they had to take on one of the Gracies. Gradually, the fame of Gracie Jiu Jitsu spread and ultimately Rorion with the aid of some promoters formed the UFC where something almost unheard of was in practice ----weight classes were not present. A 150lb guy might fight a 225 pounder. This was unheard of at the time. The UFC spread the news of Gracie Jiu Jitsu even further.
One only has to look around to see how much influence Rorion had as far as GJJ is concerned. It is taught to law enforcement agencies all over the world including elite forces such as the Seals and others. I was a law enforcement officer for 33 years and watched as they developed great techniques for handcuffing, gun take aways, etc. etc. They would analyze a particular situation that police officers get into and come up with workable techniques to assist the officers. I personally don't care if they borrowed something from a thousand years ago or not. They have made a great impact and influence on the American Society and for teaching the weaker in our society how they might have a chance against a larger and more muscular opponent. So knock it all you may want as to its origins, but there was nothing like it being taught in the U.S. until Rorion brought it to the U.S. lo those many years ago. I am not as familiar with the Carlos side of the family, but have met and sparred with a number of Gracies and I have nothing but admiration for their work ethic, their genuine love for and belief in their art. I am sure this is true on the BJJ side of the family as well. All I can say is God bless them all. I met and sparred with Helio several times and words cannot express my admiration for him. I have the deepest respect and admiration for Rorion, Royce and Rickson as well. These are the men I worked with the most. In the days when I was studying with the Gracie's, I had private lessons with them so got to know them very well. I can honestly say, I love them and I wish them all the best now and far into the future.
I am pretty confident this is not true
They didn’t invent the art, all these techniques originated in Japan
Caleb Medeiros no they originated in Greece 500 years ago
@@drea4813 that's pretty dumb
'Other than high school and college wrestling, nobody was teaching anything like GJJ' - catch wrestling had already been around for 100 years..
That was a fascinating and comprehensive breakdown on the origins of the art. Thank you
Thank you for clearing up so much confusion I’ve had regarding this remarkable family and the beautiful art they pioneered. This was really well presented in such a short video! Thank you so much!! 🙏🏻😎
Thank you!
Great video, great explanation. I've been doing Jiu Jitsu for 19 years now, I am a black belt under Jon Burke (one of Royce's first black belts), and we focus on both the self defense techniques and the sport techniques (self defense first and foremost though). I use to run a Jiu Jitsu tournament, and in my personal opinion, I think it is important to practice all aspects of Gracie/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (Self Defense, Sport, and MMA grappling). Don't water down the art, don't skimp on any aspect of it, by doing this we keep this art strong for future generations.
Exactly, Judo made that mistake. Every now and then something else is stripped from it cause sport aspect of it.
This kind of sums up a lot of my feelings as im looking into BJJ from both a practical applicability standpoint re: MMA but also am fascinated by the historical and cultural contexts (hence my finding my way to this video). The idea of people watering down BJJ is very scary to me because its already a subset of a subset. This video (and your comment) are helping me understand that there are even _more_ subsets, and while this is not an issue unique to BJJ, it will prove to be very problematic for something already so insular and specific. TKD and Karate are problematic in their "oversporting" imo - ie: point sparring really detaches you from practical applications - but a TON of BJJ videos here on youtube, while im sure may not be the best or most accurate representation, show people getting hurt by overzealous yet poorly trained grapplers a LOT
As an "older" guy, I have NO interest in learning "sport" techniques or competing. Hats off to the guys and gals that do do tourneys. Perhaps in my younger days.....? So Gracie (Ryron and Rener) Jiu Jitsu is what I LOVE!!! Roll on, Brothers.
I don't practice Jiu-Jitsu, but I find the family absolutely fascinating. I listened to a long podcast interview with Reila Gracie (Roger Gracie's mother) and it is interesting how close the family was even though they seem to have developed this family rivalry. She talks about how close she was with her Uncle Helio and the numerous interviews she did with him when preparing for her book. It was very interesting.
...this is some deep anime-style stuff...
Need that anime made asap
Love getting into the history. Thank you for your time and effort.
Thank you!
very nice video !! i learned so much. thank you
That is a lot of R names.
+AdamIsForGiants, you're telling me!
AdamIsForGiants: From what I understand, someone convinced an important Gracie that the letter R has some kind of mystical power. Since that day the children were to have names beginning with R. Heres an interview Helio did in 2001
www.global-training-report.com/helio2.htm
and here is an interview with Rorion in 1994.. blog.aikidojournal.com/2011/08/27/interview-with-rorion-gracie-by-james-williams-and-stanley-pranin/
they like first letters that give a "hard" sound, like R, C, and K. I also heard Carlson, Sr had a different name when he was born, but Carlos, Sr had come to the belief after Carlson's birth, so he changed his name to Carlson.
You mean H names.
many brazilians believe the letter R, C bring fortune. in football you my familiar with the names Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto, Cafu, Carlos
Awesome video, keep the historically videos coming. They are much appreciated.
+thegnjdk, thanks for the feedback!
Thanks for that. Very informative and a lot of questions answered for me!
I recently joined Gracie Barra university here in Honolulu Hawaii with my two boys. I’ve met great people with so much knowledge in Jiu Jitsu. It’s been only 3 weeks. Lot more to learn.
Update?
@@michaelbanks2401 I am sad to say that about couple years ago, not very long after joining our coach had to move away from the Island. Since then I have not trained or join another dojo. I’ve enjoyed it and looking forward to training again when that right time comes.
update ???@@showmethatthang
Either way..that family is HUGE! I prefer self defense.
The age Difference between Carlos and Helio was 10 years apart.
Great job! 👍🏼
Lazaro Carreiro y
It’s all the same there is no divide
11 years
Found you today. EXCELLENT insight!
Thank you for schooling me on this history lesson. 2 thumbs up..!
I have watched a few of your videos as of late. This one motivated me to subscribe. I train under Helios lineage, very self defense oriented but I also love and have an affinity for sport jiu jitsu. This explanation of the family dynamic is very detailed and, in my opinion, unbiased. Great content.
Thank you
You did a really good job man, I'm impressed.
Very informative. Thank you.
Great video and super explanation. Thank you.
COOL VIDEO, THANK YOU!!
First and foremost honor both Grand-masters. I started in the Sports BJJ world not knowing the whole story between BJJ and GJJ. I began competing in local grappling tournaments. I had a friend who invited me to a GJJ school and I was sold. I am Prior military and kind of love street fighting. I found that GJJ has a complete system of fighting. We always start stand up and do a lot of striking and we end classes with ground techniques. We basically learn to fight with no rules where as my old BJJ school we mostly grapple and start on our knees. I have had the opportunity to meet some amazing BJJ Instuctors and I personally had the opportunity to meet Rorion, Royce and Rickson Gracie at our school seminars. In a nutshell, GJJ does focus on self defense! But do not let the term self defense fool you. Our striking class mimics street fighting with gloves and without gloves which incorporates kicks, punches, elbows, take downs and grappling. I believe it depends on what you want to learn. I found that GJJ fits my needs. Much Respect to the whole Gracie Family and always respect the roots. I am a student of Valente Brothers Jiu Jitsu.
Just found this channel and subscribed, some really great videos !!
Thanks for making these videos!
Love this video! subbed and liked. really makes me think about the nature of man and the explains a lot. I really appreciate you making this vid.
thank you for the feedback!
Nice info on the history of the family.
Thank you. I really enjoyed watching this.
Well I for one appreciate you taking the time for this lesson.
Thank you
Cant we all just get along?? Love the family! Love the art! And remember in the end your brothers and sisters in this beautiful art will have your back! Every individual is diffrent but the art is perfect!! OSS
+Tim Leophard, very well stated. Thank you!
Tim Leophard class act response! I know this guy he's a stud under Clark Gracie! He never says 2 words to anyone! To see this post is crazy! He's like an urban legend.
Thanks for the history lesson!
+ChristianWarrior76, thanks for watching. We really appreciate it!
So helpful bro. Thank u for sharing
Keep in mind the Gracie's have a vested interest in narrating the history of the art.
Count Koma, who taught Carlos Sr, had a school and taught other Brazilians (e.g Luiz França), who opened their own schools in Brazil, who often competed against (and in some cases) beat the Gracie schools from time to time. Count Koma has often been given the title of founder of BJJ, because he taught the Gracie's as well as other Brazilians.
Count Koma fought in tough man competitions and had to adapt Kano Jiu Jitsu (aka Judo) to work against different Martial Arts. This became a common theme in BJJ, competing against other arts. It also set the pattern for GJJ in terms of using Grappling in a mixed martial art format to control the opponent with dirty strikes mixed in from dominant grappling positions.
It is hard to know who did the primary innovating. Certainly Count Koma did 'worked' matches as well, so not all of his fights were legitimate fights. But he was the guy who was stuck trying to figure out how to beat Western Boxers one day and catch wrestlers the next. He fought guys wearing unitards and guys in strong man costumes, so he couldn't rely on opponents wearing a gi. I think it's intuitively obvious that his innovations from a pure Kano/Judo philosophy of absolute and perfect technique (seiryoku zen'yō) vs the reality of adapting to very different and wide ranging fighting styles was his main contribution to BJJ.
Either way, it's a fascinating history from Kano to Count Koma (Maeda) to Carlson to Helio.
Too much fact for this guys channel, he is a Gracie ball fonlder
well spoken sir. i agree
Gracies developed the groundfighting MUCH more.
@@AceofDlamonds the groundfighting you're thinking of was rudimentary til Isao Okano and plenty of other Japanese Judokas that Brazilians learned from, along with luta livre/wrestling
I am so glad to see this video. I have been talking about this subject for years and about the internal Gracie feud. Just keeping it real, this video is not accurate at all. First off both sides have remained somewhat unchanged, and have added very little to each respective style. Calling one side "sport" and one side "traditional" is very wrong, since it was Helio that would go out and fight all challenges in the ring for years. Carlos Sr. learned from Meaeda , Kodan judo, which was really more violent than other types of judo. Carlos's jujitsu contained a lot of strikes and powerful throws, that Helio was unable to do, so they created a special adaptation for Helio. This adaptation was the "upside down turtle" that you see a lot of these days (fighting from the back/ pulling guard). Carlos Sr. was the mastermind behind the Vale Tudo, but Helio wanted the family art to say within the family, Helio also was unable to compete and thought the Vale Tudo would take the limelight off him.
Looking at the two styles , its easy to see the difference. Look at Ralph, Renzo or Ryan vs Royce or Royler in action (especially against Sakuraba). Now in the days long past, Carlson Gracie had to step in and defend family honor when Helio was unable to beat someone, this caused a lot of conflict for those in the family. Carlson used this more forceful jujitsu to win matches, and this disturbed Helio greatly. The fact that Helio tried to erase Carlos Sr from the history of BJJ by saying that He (Helio) actually created BJJ and not his brother (see many TH-cam videos on interviews with Helio) was very evident that there was a problem in the family. Somewhere in the timeline, Carlson Gracie schools were in conflict with Carlos and Helio schools, with many fights breaking out among them. Examples in modern day is Wallid Ismail, a Carlson Gracie blackbelt who defeated Ralph, Renzo and Royce and challenged Rickson, who never took the fight. Still to this day there is a lot of name calling between Ismail and the Gracie's.
Rolls Gracie came along and really combined the two styles, into this hybrid system that inspired people like Rickson (look at Rickson fights compared to his brothers). It was no secret that Rolls and Helio had some issues after Rolls started doing his own style and started teaching it to Rickson, and many of the Red Belts you see today in BJJ. Rickson's is known as one of the best Gracies fighters of his generation due to his style, which is quite obviously not like his brothers. There is also conflict in the Helio Gracie family since Rorion left Brazil to get away and out of the shadow of Rolls, and when coming to the US cheated Rickson and prevented him from fighting in the US do to some sneaky contract he had Rickson sign. Many of the Gracie brothers look down on Rorion in private, but keep the "good face" in public.
Interesting. Kind of makes sense. How did you learn all of this?
I knew a little bit of that story but man you broke it down great. I learned a lot. When it was over I didn't realize I was watching for 20 minutes. Thanks for sharing....
+GH51505150, lol. And when it was over, I didn't realize I was talking for 20 minutes! Oh, well. Glad you stayed on for the whole thing. Thank you!
Wow, I know very little about the history. I know my experience in my gym. We have Helio Gracie on our wall, and they are a self defense gym. It's a humbling experience. Thank you for your knowledge!
Ryan: Thank you so much for this. I have really enjoyed your perspective of the Gracie Family. I agree with you on the point that you made--The gracies are just fantastic. They have
created a truly remarkable art form whether for sport or self defense. God bless them all!!
Robert, plse contact me ASAP. KamaJiuJitsu@gmail.com ~Ryan
@@KamaJiuJitsu what the fuck
Le Grand Fromage Robert Armstrong was a student of Gracie Jiu Jitsu back in the garage days
Another awesome video. I had a general idea that there was a split in the Gracie family, but understood it was more along the lines of the philosophy of what should be taught rather than actual animosity. This video pretty much explained how it came about. My son trains Gracie Barra, and while they do put in some self defense, it's definitely more focused on Ju Jitsu Vs Ju Jitsu.
i'm not sure i'd say there's actual animosity, per se. i have none toward anyone, and i haven't come across any, either. differences of opinion, perhaps. but no animosity.
Thanks for the breakdown. Good vid
Great video!!!
It’s amazing how these discussions are found in every single martial art out there. I dabbled in Wing Chung kung fu for a while only to be sickened by the division amongst the practitioners. There’s a big fight as to which is the “traditional“ or “modified“ version. It’s maddening. And frankly, I don’t care as long as the system works for what you want to get out of it - whether competition or personal protection.
Good video here 👍
exactly even JKD has its divisions but as you say who cares take what you want and make it work for you and then leave it behind when you get to a certain level you dont need anyone else
Powerful BJJ info brotha. Thanks for the post.
Good break down of the Gracie family tree. I've been looking for a video explaining this.
i hadn't heard it thought out quite so comprehensively before. This is interesting thanks.
Just heard master Rickson's book breathe on audio books. Great story!!!
I'm going to my first defense class for women next Saturday at Gracie martial arts in Tampa FL.
Did you stick with it?
Awesome video man thank you for the history
This is such a good explanation of a topic that a lot of people have grown tired of hearing about that it actually makes it interesting again. Well done. Subscribing
Renzo and Ralph are on the Carlos side but I feel they are both. Maybe because they are brothers and Renzo seems close to Relson and Rickson.
Renzo and Ralph was against Carlson what are you talking about?
@@1madinjun I said Carlos not Carlson lol. Carlos is Helio’s older brother and Renzo and Ralph’s grandfather and Carlson’s father. That’s what I’m talking about lmao!
I trained under Carley Gracie. He absolutely stressed self-defense first in everything before sports fighting. He always talked about being ready for a street fight.
It is very hard to stomach modern BJJ with everything focused on tournaments. He emphasized you had to have a stand-up game for self-defense. He also taught many judo throws.
GM Carley was one of the best of his generation.
Prof . Ryan, I know this is an old post, but I think "Self-defense" vs"Sport" is too vague to describe the difference. Socrates XLIX's response quoting GM Carley is exactly how I've heard Ryron and Rener explain it.
You usually invite others to post a video with their arguments, but I am only a white belt in GJJ. Perhaps a video explaining what is meant by sport or self defense and their associated philosophies would be good? I agree with GM Carley's statement, Ryron's and Rener's explanation, and even Rickson says a true black belt should know both self defense and sport.
Enjoyed the video, good presentation with question answered in regards to the differences of BJJ and GJJ and the lineage and interesting history of a large family.
Wonderful share.
thanks for the history lessen. I came into this art for self defense, so I'll stay under Helio's Gracie Jitsu.
I have trained with the gracies. I have never heard them disrespect each other.
One of the best explanations on the subject. Nicely done sir.
+Dan Taylor, thank you, sir.
Thanks for sharing.
thanks for explaining - never even knew about the schism but picked up that there was a bit of a falling out between certain members. This makes it nice and clear. I'm on the Helio side.
I am a Japanese JuJutsu practitioner and I have been really interested in Jiu-Jitsu. This is really enlightening to me, since I had no Idea that there was a difference in how BJJ and GJJ. Please keep spreading the knowledge!
go try some classes out! you may already know most/all of the stuff based on your JJJ training. or, maybe you'll learn something new?
Since JJJ is already self defense based, I would take BJJ.
Take XJJ
Love the video, fascinating history!
+Mike Bowser thank you!
this was very informative thx
I was expecting a "Hobin" lol
Lmfao 😂😂😂 saaaame!
Everybody needs to remember brazilian jiu jitsus real father...Mitsuyo Maeda - "toughest man who ever lived"
did i (Ryan) not in our video? i kinda think i mentioned him...
Yes and that is very good!
Thank you sir!! So true!!
Mitsuyo Maeda is the only true master of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu! m.facebook.com/Mitsuyo-Maeda-is-the-only-true-master-of-Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu-131632604255321/?tsid=0.20996779995782755&source=result
It is jujutsu. Almost all of it is Japanese. The trunk hold is guard. Ne-waza life. The only thing Brazilian is the rules to allow a longer ground fight. If you listen to the Gracie family they would have you believe they invented fire. There were many who weren't Gracie's who were direct lineage under maeda aka count coma. Oswaldo Fadda for one directly challenged the Gracie's in the 40s and out of 20 matches his school won 14 and most due to foot locks.
Great Video Brother!! Well done.
To Kama Jiu-Jitsu: I just want to say I loved the way you explain the differences of BJJ & GJJ, it gave me a great insight, I don't practice martial arts (or any sport due to a heart condition) but I love hearing any kind of history of martial arts. I don't know if this is possible but could you one day talk about the first generation Gracies (Carlos Sr., and all his brothers including Helio). I was always curious about them, most everyone knows about Carlos Sr. and Helio but I always wanted to find out about the brothers in between the two. Anyways, thank you and all respect to you. Please stay safe and stay healthy.
Thank you for the history break down. I am very interested in GJJ because of the self defense focus but I only see mostly BJJ around me.. one in particular seems pretty prestigious but I am worried the focus on sport may open up flaws in self defense and that’s what I am trying to get from my jiu jitsu journey in life ... I’m current just started at a BJJ gym but not Barra officiated and I’m new and there aren’t many white belts so many days the higher belts get the majority of the training and if it wasn’t this way I’d be much happier because the instructor is a world champion and was on ultimate fighter Brazil he’s incredibly good, and also does Krav Maga so he knows self defense my issue is one the level of concentration on us lower level people with no experience, and also although he’s a self defense instructor the classes seem more sport oriented... I’m going to stick with this for the remainder of my contract with the gym if I don’t see any sort of improvement in said areas of concern I was thinking of Garcie Barra or really GJJ but it will be much more difficult logistically for me
Very interesting and informative, thanks for putting in the work!
I studied Judo intensively as a child and it is clear Jiu-Jistu is the top athletic/ sporting training system for MMA these days, well done Gracies and well done Maeda! It seems certain this system will not degenerate into gangsterism and will always train guys up very well for dominance type street fighting.
Would you agree that "self defense" basically means the ability to handle eye gauges, groin strikes/ manipulation, multiple attackers, biting (weapons)?
From an internal martial arts standpoint not training to handle these "dirty" technuiques means "sports" jiujitsu cannot be considered "martial" in the classical sense, ie. battlefield technology designed to kill and maim as effieciently as possible.
Do you train for the biting, eye gauges, groin stuff in Jiu-Jitsu self defence systems?
This seems to me the weakness in the system that is more than compensated for by the abilty to train with speed and pressure safely.
SInce guns have become publicly available it seems that "martial" training has lost its social function. I think Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, MMA are filling that warrior shaped void in the hearts of men and are a very very good thing as we go hurtling blindly into this technological, disembodied age.
awesome video, master! thank you
+Artur Joner thank you!
Great video. Very informative. I started bjj last week and love it. Gracie Barra out of Missouri. Thank you
I train at Gracie Barra and we do self defense all the time! It’s part of the fundamentals curriculum. We also have the advanced and competition classes. Most students mix in both the fundamentals & advanced classes, at my academy at least.
I’m thinking of switching to a Gracie barra school due to the way they have beginners classes. I feel like I would benefit and get into a groove much more easily at a academy like that
Meaning you want to go to Gracie Barra where you get promoted just because you show up and train!? Gracie Barra is the definition of a Mcdojo
@@alexsenciuc8910 Attendance is just one of the criteria for promotion.
@@alexsenciuc8910 - Lol, I don’t even have to know you to know I could pick out just about any Purple Belt out of my Academy and regardless of your belt ranking, you’d get rolled up. You probably don’t even train. 😂
Some of the world’s best BJJ practitioners come from Gracie Barra. Braulio Estima, Orlando Sanchez, Roger Gracie to name just a few. Did they get their Black Belts out of a Cracker Jack box like you suggest?
@@ButtScootBJJ not them, 95% of your mcdojo consists of belts received based on attendance, you muppet! Gracie barra london is a joke, tell me how many killers came from there! You named 3 bjj practitioners from a school that has tens of thousands of students, I have seen greco wrestlers destroy gracie barra students in jj! Foh
Im proud to be training under helio gracies system, although really it's all the same stuff.
Very well spoken, accurate and unbiased point of view. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Thank you
You've got a new sub. Love the content, keep it up.
Where i live I can do Kodokan Judo and Kyokushin Karate per month for the cost of doing Gracie Jiu Jitsu alone a month.
Good for you!
That would be badass.do it dude.bjj is part of judo
Just remember to learn complete Judo including ground grappling. Osu....
Thanks for the clarification, I learned a lot from that. Where do the Machado's come in?
+Jaycee Styles, if I'm not mistaken, the Machados' mother is the sister of Carlos, Sr's wife (the mother on Carlinhos, Crolin, Rilion, I think). So they're first cousins to some of Carlos Sr's children.
Great video !
But I think in "The Gracie Way" it is said that Carlson and Robson learned under Helio, him being the head instructor of the Academy.
Carlos step back from teaching being more a manager and focusing on the Diet
he said jean jaq machado was a cousin of carlson jr.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Thank you so much mate. Im definitely subscribing to this channel
+BOOGER C, carlos, jr,
Great video, thank you.
thanks for watching/commenting!
Well described. Very informative.
+Bradda G, mahalo!
I train gb we do train self defense . Maybe its not at the same level? Ive also trained under my first instructor which is under Jorge Pereira and i believe he is under Rickson i was told. In that Academy we rarely trained any self defense. I really appreciate and enjoy this last history lesson here. Still have a lot of questions though keep up the great work.
I think it really depends on the instructor. My instructor is a black belt under Charles Gracie who is under the Carlos family tree and yet he is heavily into self defense and using Jiu Jitsu to protect yourself. He is also a black belt in Kenpo as well. I think a good Jiu Jitsu instructor should be able to do both sport and self defense.
IMHO, if a school doesn't use the word "Self defense"or the words don't come out of the mouth of an instructor, I'd highly question the school. TBH though, if you join a school, have a strong connection with the community and instructor, learning any form of the art is what matters as well. The more people who train, the better!
my exact thoughts, Gracie Barra as said by Carlos Jr. himself is done the way it was taught at the first gym he teached (wich he learned admitedely from Helio)
I dunno at all. I think it really differs professor to professor. My professor, Omar Salum, trained under Royler and is VERY sport oriented. So we're Humaita.
My girlfriend and I just did some BJJ late last night. The score never went to the judges it was a two way K.O.
Not a very good or funny analogy.
It's OK I thought it was a good joke.
Thank you this is very knowledgeable
Thank you- was very curious how they differed -
I live in Rio de Janeiro, where the Gracies spread BJJ for the first time and always wanted to know why there are two Gracie brands (Gracie Barra and Gracie Humaitá).
This was the first time I saw a good explanation. Your video was incredible. Thank you very much.
Spot on! I train at gracie humaita and we do a mix of self defense and sport JJ my coach will teach us sport JJ moves but will let us know that you are vulnerable to strikes. We learn distance management as well. Best of both world's!
Great work! Thank you :)
Thanks, Igor.
Insane knowledge on the subject. Bravo.
Sorry for the split in your family, I hope this gets resolved, there is no reason why traditional and sport can not live as one. I have done a few types of Japanese jui jitsui myself and nearly all martial arts have moves involved in other martial arts. However I would not use it as a sport myself, it is not my way even when I trained in Muay Thai. Best of luck.
I know this is a late question, but where does Machado and Caique lie in all this? Are they more competition or self defense?
Very informative professor!
and much respect to carlson cracie jr and the dualing pitbulls academy!still have old og t from husband thats prob most never saw!;)
I dont know if you already talk about it, but can you talk about the third Gracie Brother George? according to the Japanese he was the best of the 3 at BJJ.
Great video. Well done.
thank you, sir!
nice explanation thank you
So I have two questions. 1 are the stripes on our belts considered degrees? Or just stripes? And 2 I'm a 2 stripe blue belt from a renzo Gracie school. It is heavily focused on sport bjj which I like. I first started at a school that was from the helio lineage so they focused a lot on the self defense side of it which I also liked. I don't want to leave my current school but I don't want to reach black belt with out having the knowledge I need for self defense jiujitsu as well. Or atleast the tools I need to be able to train the self defense side on my own and incorporate it into my personal game if that makes sense? Not sure if I'm explaining it correctly. Bassically I love my school I don't want to leave but I don't want to miss out on the self defense side of jiujitsu. What should I do? Thanks
InFamouzBX good questions, as for the ranking, it depends on your instructor's bylaws etc whether they call them stripes or degrees. I know what you mean either way. The second question, like Ryan mentioned in the video, the family members know the self defense, Prof Renzo knows how to fight using jiujitsu with punches etc... now depending if your instructor knows it is different all together. If you already have the prowess of rolling then the self defense portion shouldn't be a problem, find a school that has it in their curriculum. You need to have an active participant while training the self defense, meaning some actually throwing punches , tight headlock, proper wrist lock, proper base for the hip throw etc.... hope that helps...
+InFamouzBX, it really depends on why you're training in the first place. Self-defense? Competition? Camaraderie, relationships,and friendships? To be proficient in Gracie Self-Defense, you can't just learn it and be done with it. Like any skill, you would need to do it regularly. Simply learning it today to learn it and then moving on to other stuff and being able to recall it in a high stress situation 5 yrs from now is not realistic. If you find a school that teaches what you want, you have some options. 1) switch school and be immersed in it, 2) be a member of both schools, provided your pocketbook can handle it and both instructors are ok with it (and deal with sometimes conflicting instructions and philosophies, 3) train privately with the instructor who will teach it to you (but not get the constant repetition, 4) buy some self defense DVDs and practice on your own (but it might be hard finding a regular training partner).
But realistically, the vast MINORITY of people who spend money on DVDs and books ever use them past week 1 (so that option is usually a waste of money).
Now that you know your options, good luck!
Just get a good heavy bag, square your skills at striking standing, also use on the ground, find where striking is effective between position transitions. A good right hook necktie to sweep set up armbar backfist finish set up, all good but if someone is able to escape the elbow, turn into your guard & drop bombs, it's good to have a solid left to lay them back down into armbar or transition to rear triangle etc. Striking is important for real fights, using strikes to transition for better jj advantage is just a matter of knowing how to strike & where they would work. Best bet in a real fight just go for the choke (as long as it just 1 opponent), but you may have to box just to get a clinch, & you may have to work for every inch.
Oh ya, slam defense is also good knowledge for a jj player in a seldom found self defense scenario.
I started off at a Barra lineage school. Actually the owner is 1st cousins with Renzo. Back in 1998 when i started. We spent the first quarter of the class practicing stand up and ground self defence and judo throws/second quarter ground technique and the second half of calss was rolling. Im surprised to see this is not what is done at a renzo school. I bet it was 10-15 years ago. Renzo certainly has that knowledge. I think the widespread sprawl of sporting events has changed that so it is considered counter productive to train the defense because thier is only so much time per class, might as well train guys how to win tournies. Its knd of sad. Perhaps thier should be certain 2 classes a week that can be just SD and throws?
Carlos Gracie is the father! Helio is the holly spirit
Great documentary.
This was very informative
I talked to a few of the Gracie guys and they also spoke about a schism In the family. It's hard to keep track of haha
A few questions...
Who awarded Carlos SR, and Helio their black belts, and how long did it take each of them to obtain them?
Why is it never mentioned that Helio held a 6th degree in Judo at the time of his death?
Carlos got his blue belt from Maeda. They jumped from blue belt to 10th degree red belt; they never where black belt.
Because they want people to think they invented a new art when in reality BJJ is all judo techniques just focus all on the ground techniques only
@@calebgamer1720And Judo is ripped off Japanese Jiu jitsu