Ikr. Even such unassuming thing like padded cloth gambeson will make difference between "Whoa thats a nasty cut, he migh not make unless treated by bloody good doctor" and "Whoa we probably need to stich him back together before burial"
It really drives me up a wall. the most infamous of all is Star War's Battle of Endor. a military that conquered planets defeated by bears with clubs. then when they do shoot back, more than half the creatures in the entire galaxy are bullet proof. more than just creatures on Endor. Armor that ain't worth shit and guns that can't kill anything. wonderful.
Got to admire the guy still not raising the alarm or seeking cover, just standing there tanking arrow after arrow without budging. This guy knows how to hold aggro for the team.
it's as loud as a bell, i bet he won't shout as loud and faramir was alerted boromir would've already lead the countercharge as their father would remark!
@@enomisv9830well…to be fair Sauron was always just test them until the time was right. Then when he threw his full military might around he came down on everyone like a hammer.
Gondor soldiers will wipe the orcs very easily if there weren't the Witch King and Nazguls. Peter Jackson made only mistake showing Gondorians as weak, but instead, they were Middle-Earth finest soldiers after Dunedains of Arnor and Noldors.
@@linming5610 Even in fading, Gondor was still strong and mighty enough to give good combat and organize powerful defense, especially with good leadership like Boromir, Aragorn, Imrahil, Faramir and even Denethor if there wasn't such a destructive influence from Palantir.
Always felt it was thier leadership. Like faramirs vastly outnumbered group defending the river. Then have a hundred calvary charge a superior dug in force. "Where are Gondor's armies" spread thin...like butter over to much bread. Those that fought were few. Denethor dropped the ball. Books are generally always better still loved it though.
@@kyos8462 In the books, Denethor's military decisions were sound, if ruthless. For example, instead of sending Faramir on a pointless cavalry charge against a city, he sent Faramir to reinforce Osgiliath *before* the orcs crossed the river. At that point, while the orcs were almost certain to defeat the defenders due to their overwhelming numbers, the defensive position granted by the river enabled Faramir to make the crossing very costly to the orcs, making the defense a net benefit to Gondor even considering their smaller numbers. Again, it was ruthless (especially since Denethor's own son was among the soldiers sent to a battle where most would die), but sound from a purely practical viewpoint. Really, the films made a lot of the characters more flawed for purposes of humor or drama.
Orcs are cannon fodder by numbers, but they are never expressed to be weak or incapable of a good fight in the books. They're just brutes, nothing more, nothing less. Men had their heroic moments and specially numenorean descendants; yet their foe was still a real menace, not just some cripple sluggish adversary
Yeah cannon fodder, sure Ignore that 1 orc who just almost killed a main character in a 1v1 effortlessly You just have to accept the fact that this movies are garbage
I'd also point out that orcs almost NEVER use boats, and the gondorians know it. The forces of darkness are generally scared of water with good reason.
Even as a kid it was always frustrating to see properly trained and equipped soldiers get dunked on by bow legged gimpy canon fodder. Funnyliy enough the BFME games and mods better reflect this. Orcs as fodder and Easterlings as elite infantry you can upgrade for example.
One of my most hated moments in the movies is near the end of the siege of Minas Tirith and a little orc jumps down on a gondorian and kills him by biting his neck…..which was covered in chainmail….. That and when the Gondorians prepare a defensive phalanx at the gate only for the Ologs to smash through it like they weren’t there. Gondor gets done dirty in the movies.
The trolls smashing open the gondorian formation made sense to me; they've got massive strength, dense muscles and tough scaly hide under thick armour. Not sure I agree about the biting orc either, don't the gondorians depicted in the movie have pretty poorly protected necks? It's not like they're wearing chainmail coifs, and I don't recall seeing anyone wear a gorget either, so I could see a tired gondorian who's been active and under stress all night and longer being downed and being chewed on. EDIT I rewatched the scene, and they do in fact wear gorgets! My bad. It's such a brief scene so I can't tell completely, but I *think* I see the guy losing his helmet and having his hair pulled to open the throat up? Might give an industrious orc an opening.
@eddymercan7487 Ironically one of the better armor depictions in fantasy in many cases. Not all but not bad throughout especially in comparison to shows like Vikings for example.
Do you know how hard it is for Phalanx to be maintained perfectly during a charge? You're talking a few hundred defenders, trying to hold back a wave of thousands.
I'll give you many of the other examples, but it wasn't exactly like it the trolls were facing a bristling Macedonian phalanx of 18 ft. pikes with no army, they were literally armored trolls attacking a shield wall, which was never going to end well for the Gondorians. Though I do think that there should've at least been a few small scenes of the Gondorian soldiers winning, or at least doing something heroic, not just getting beaten up by the orcs.
@@chubbyninja89 the trolls are probably the perfect tool for breaking a mere spear wall ofc, but it would’ve been nice to see just ONE of them go down so it feels more like a pitched and desperate fight.
This movie made Gondor soldiers look like cowardly untrained idiots, in the books they were all brave and good soldiers that were just worn down and overwhelmed by numbers
Movies were my 1st introduction to the LOTR universe at the age of 6. I started getting into books later, but while watching movies I considered Gondorians very uselss, obviously because of their depiction. It was only when I started reading books I realised how strong they were
The film made Gondor look so weak. Gondor had two to three times the army Rohan had. Also, the army of the dead do not act like they did in the movies - they can’t harm you. Minus Tirath was saved by Aragorn leading a Gondorian army from south Gondor.
@@rafaelschaffner No, your problem is that you were expecting a 1:1 translation of the books into film. That's not how it works. No film based on a book will ever be a 100% accurate translation for a number of reasons. I read the books and I still loved the movies because I'm capable of recognizing that they are two different things.
@@Commodore22345 Haha, no I wasn't. I watched the movies BEFORE I read the books. I was raised on the movies and didn't read the books till couple years ago. So no I wasn't "expecting a 1:1 translation of the book." Nice try though.
@@rafaelschaffner Gondor had to be portrayed as weak, to maintain cinematic tension. To have the audience feel a sense of hopelessness and despair. Movies have a faster pace than novels. In the books, Gondor could be portrayed as strong and heroic fairly often because the pace of the novels is very slow. Gondor's losses could be offset by a few victories, and the novels could still maintain dramatic tension.
That was something that bothered me and my grandad when we watched it years ago, yeah you can't see, but hold it in front of you still and brace, why when you can't see your opponent would you not swing wildly or keep your weapon in front of you?
3 วันที่ผ่านมา +3
@@redrangerrr558 Being blinded by intense bright light hurts, and the orcs were notorious for disliking sunlight to begin with. Kinda hard to keep your composure when you're eyeballs are suddenly burning with light. It's not that far fetched. In fact, Alexander the Great was advised by his war council to use the time of day/light reflecting into the eyes of enemies to give his soldiers the advantage, though Alexander declined it stating, 'I'll not have the sun stealing my glory.' and won the battle regardless.
No it's pretty damn bad for a battle scene. Tolkien wrote it completely differently, but Jackson (who didn't understand military tactics) rewrote it for the film and had cavalry charging directly onto pikes.
I get that it's a legitimate strategy, but it's typically used on infantry that needs to see their opponent in order to parry and such, these are a tight formation of pikes, if they had kept the pikes braced they would have been fine.
And this is how you know barely anyone arguing in this thread has the slightest clue what they're talking about. It's well and clear established in both book and movies that orcs are painfully allergic to sunlight. What do you people think all that fuss about the black storm clouds drawing nearer and nearer towards Gondor? That's Sauron covering his army from sunlight. Obviously none of you have read the books OR watched the movies yet argue about battle tactics as if you had. Fucking tourists, man.
Anything against the Uruk Hai gets a pass from me as they're born days before. And it was probably their first time seeing a horse. I would be scared shitless too
In these movies everyone on a horse is immortal, like remember when they ride out of helms deep into thousands of urukhai and none of them even get scratched. They EVEN STOP MOVING AND FIGHT AND LOOK UP and nothing happens while they’re surrounded on every side by urukhai. It was just how the movies were, anyone on foot fighting looks like a total idiot but if you’re on a horse you are immune from all harm.
If the amour worked then gondorians will be able to kill on average 3 to 5 orcs but the problem is that there is at least 10 orcs for every gondorian so the Gondorians eventually get fatigued and then overwhelmed by sheer numbers of Mordor's forces, so imagine seeing the Gondorians making brave stand able to kill a fair number of orcs each but the orcs end up swarming the gondorians and pinning down the Gondorians so that the orcs can drive daggers into the gaps of the armour or smashing the gondorians on the head with maces
Well and in the books, this battle in particular lasts *all* night and into the morning, with the hopelessly outnumbered Gondorian defenses managing to hold off the overwhelming force of orcs, taking a third of their force as casualties before retreating to the defensive wall surrounding Pelanor fields, at which point they held out for another full day before that position gets overwhelmed and they are pursued across the fields towards Minas Tirith by Nazgul and a large force. It's at this point that a host of knights actually ride out from Minas Tirith to cover their retreat.
Problem is with the depiction. Like you can show a Gondorian kill 2-3 Orcs, but then get swarmed and killed by 5-6 Orcs, then it'll still show the desperation of the situation without making them look incompetent. Peter Jackson just doesn't understand how medieval soldiers fight.
@@ShingenNolaan Some tingly sensation, maybe. The arrow still travel at a good speed. Unless he was hit in his helmet which might confused him for a bit.
They are certainly not 25 lbs. T LOTR Weapons and Warfare manual states that Gondor longbows are 140 lbs and had a range of 200 yards. Orc short bows had 100 yard effective range but no draw weight was given. Maybe it is less than Gondor longbows, or maybe it's because they have shorter draw length. But a war bow is at least 80 lbs draw weight.
Yeah, the Gondorians were basically wearing paper that looked like well developed steel plate over mail and padded wool. They should have been taking five to ten orcs for each one of them that fell. Unlike the Easterlings and Southrons, Orcs are pretty much only viable as troops due to their sheer numbers.
I agree, Peter should have included the Easterlings if he wanted to show evil combatants who are as capable as Gondorian soldiers, sadly he used them for background noise.
@@juang.4718 hmm debatable, who got himself defeated and almost trapped at the blackwater, and stuck in a snowbank in the North and was going to go for the Dreadfort first until Jon talked him out of it? Stannis, in the books too. I'm not saying he's *bad*, but we haven't really seen him shine anywhere except Fair Isle, and that was at Sea, and against a Wildling horde. If you mean defending, I'll give you the Siege of Storm's End, but Mace was hardly trying, was he?
One of the few gripes I have about the Peter Jackson movies is the Gondorian armor, the books describe it as chainmail and leather much like the Rohirimm wear. With the only "plate" armor in use during the period being the Southrons and Easterlings. To show how much more advanced they were in comparison to the peoples of the west, thanks in part to their worship/allegiance to Sauron. Also the armor doesn't look like metal at all but plastic, both in looks and the uniformity
It would also make more sense for Gondorians to get killed if most of them were in chainmail armour too. Plate armour is way too protective, at least chainmail could sometimes be penetrated.
Hah it was indeed an awkward thing to do in the movie!! Heheh if they actually had the arrow hit the throat...just in between into the exposed parts or in the eye...THAT would make more sense! Indeed Tolkien himself in books shows that chainmail armor can actually stop arrows...especially those of better make...like elven armor or armo made of mithril...off of which the arros just bump of not leaving any mark! Also orc archers are actually quite decent...and many a hero in Middle-earth, might warrior of Men, big and strong...in the end got an orc arrow in the eye!
And this is I think the most unpopular change Jackson has made, I think. Showing Gondor in a very bad light, Of Denethor being a raving lunatic immediately, not even a mention of him just holding back the evils of mordor for more many years. Boromir got this treatment, but Denethor should've as well. We never even had the Swan Knights swooping in and such. But again, I understand the direction he had made as making this an "epic fantasy movie" would require him to having an actual black vs white kind of thing, wherein the light is in a very disadvantaged situation. But I still wish he had still shown the last stand of the swan knights, remove the bad faramir going sallying out for whatever reason. Make them a force to be reckoned with, show why Gondor still stood.
I also love how the Gondorian strategy is essentially a half broken fortress followed by a open field that they have exactly one cavalry charge to defend it. I mean I get why his son wouldn’t but didn’t anyone else notice Denethor was an idiot? I mean his plan was literally to let a enemy besiege them whos greatest strength is that they never really have to stop fighting because they literally have nothing else to do.
The whole point of Denethor's character was that he was driven into despair and madness by the magic of Sauron. So yeah, he wasn't in his right mind, and people definitely noticed it, but they were not in a position to question him. Nobody except Gandalf was.
Yeah, the movies omitted the outer wall of the Pelennor fields (along with the houses on, you know, said fields). There were plenty of defendable positions between Minas Tirith and Osgiliath and they performed this kind of tiered defence in the book. And movie-Denethor is sometimes so hilariously foolish I can't take him seriously. 😅 I don't like the changes they made to his character but I have to give it to the actor; he played the role he was given like an absolute champion.
I knew the films before the books. I grew up with the films, I was between 6 and 8 years old when they came out. And although I read the books quickly, around the age of 12, I still loved the films just as much. But since I was 18, my love for films has diminished year after year while my passion for books has increased. I understand that for the purposes of the film, we remove characters, we modify facts, we arrange things. But... I do not forgive the bad representation of Aragorn, who flees his destiny, who never behaves like a king, it is Gandalf and Elrond who push him to assume his destiny, in the books it is exactly the opposite. Elijah Wood's acting is particularly bad, he smiles stupidly or overplays his discomfort. And in a Frodo emptied of all his substance and his character by Jackson. Frodo is a hobbit like any other, without distinction, which is the opposite in the film. The character of Faramir, the actor is soft, smooth, without stature and charisma, and the character is also emptied of substance. The use of Arwen is uninteresting, at the beginning super warrior of Death who faces the nine alone, thus removing one of Frodo's strongest moments, and then, a girl who throws a tantrum with her father who gets involved in everything . Just good for giving Aragorn a French kiss at the end. Gimli who is there to make you laugh.... I always love the films, the music is perfect, the majority of the actors are impeccable, the characters of Gandalf and Theoden are perfectly represented, Theoden is even more highlighted in the films than in the books, the atmosphere is superb , the exceptional special effects, and still relevant 25 years later etc etc. But less and less with age. Sorry for my english, i'm French.
Unfortunately, i can confirm that I feel the same, watching the trilogy over and over again. Bad moments (like the scene in this video) are becoming brighter, while the former fairy atmosphere gets weaker 😢
I feel the same. Though I think the books keep becoming better at a faster rate than the movies become worse. 😄 I also agree that the music is incredible and I think the casting is very good on the whole. And about Frodo: he's one of my favourite characters in the book and they made him pretty much inrecognizable. Though I must say I absolutely love Elijah Wood as Frodo while in the Shire. He works very well as a young Frodo who's about to become an adult. But then the movies don't do the 17 year gap between Bilbo's party and Frodo leaving the Shire (rather understandably though, I might add), and so we're "stuck" with the "young Frodo" for the rest of the films.
The films are still pretty darn great to this day, but Petey Jack's love of monster movies really shines through too much sometimes. I'll never forget how he tried to make us feel bad for the troll that had just stabbed Frodo and smiled about it, or how the horse-mounted rider's best plan for fighting giant elephant creatures was to charge right into their feet and tusks.
Really though, armors are protayed this way in almost every form of media that has it. Heck, a dagger, a fucking dagger!! "nUhUh, itS onLy a tHIn sHeet Of sTeEl" It's still FUCKING STEEL.
Shit you're right, in the books they were actually a lot smaller than humans. Looking back it's kinda weird considering all modern fantasy (including tolkien related stuff) always portrays them as these towering monstrosities, l guess jackson went with the middle way simply for practical reasons.
@@minecraftfox4384 Well, Sam and Frodo were able to pass themselves off as orcs. At Helm's Deep Gimli had no problem fighting fighting orcs, even the larger Uruks, but he considered the Dunlendings overlarge for him. Until the modern usage took over Orcs were Goblins.
Glad to see, I'm not the only one who disappointed by this scene 😅 Let's be honest, if Faramir was really so weak leader, as in this battle, we would be totally agree with his father 😂
This armor protects easy< against so tiny bows, easy. And it's in this case lazy film making. If the arrow penetrates in a gap of the armor it would work.
Yeah! Real Medieval armor can stop an arrow. Well depends on the quality of the steel, so we’ll just assume that poor soldier got the bad batch. Putin probably ordered his armor.
As entertaining as the PJ lotr films are (not the Hobbit films, those are hot garbage) one of the more annoying repeat features is the way he continues to oversell the efficacy of orcs/uruks in battle, and downplays the Gondorians. The armies of Isenguard and Mordor were a threat because of there overwhelming numbers. Despite being hopelessly outnumbered, the free peoples have repeatedly defeated much larger armies, as their forces are better trained/more skilled, and typically better equipped. It's a shame we didn't see that properly reflected in the battle scenes in the films.
People underestimate how strong bows actually are. Different armor also works better for different things. That armor may be better for slashing or stabbing may also be old armor that was good for arrows, but the orcs may have new bows and better arrows that make the armor useless
@@The_Dodge_Meister Fantasy does not have to equal stupidity. You can have dragons and zombies and literal flaming swords, but just because you do, that doesn't mean that you can just plain forget the iron fleet exists, in a fixed position.
the oliphaunt charge... man i cringe to death when i see them charge and die at it. they should have at least flanked them or better yet, stay close to the city walls so the wall archers can take care of it as we saw faramir do easily before. no lets just run right at it in close file. bruh
@@captaindonut5240 Same with pre puberty kids learning the elements and beating a genocidal Empire. What a waste of money and praise. And it deserved that movie.
Yeah now talk about how 10k orc die and fail to capture a small city, orcs that was mentioned 20min back in the same movie to have impenetrable armor and more strength that previous orcs The entire movie (all of them) are bullshit if it was going to be realistic to their own rules the armies of dark lord should have cheesed all the way
tbf they were storming a fortress, real life castles enabled fifty people to hold back thousands, storming fortifications ain't east, even if you do have a w ay to destroy the walls
@@cathulionetharn5139 you missed the point They were orcs, it was said they had very strong armor yet the armor has never saved even 1 from an arrow or slash of sword Yet they got 1 tapped by arrows and all fell The movie is inconsistent and conveniently changed for the plot to progress
@@adventurer7579 eh, them being orcs isn't actually that big of a deal, unlike in most other fantasy Tolkien orcs are actually smaller and weaker than others, in fact orcs are actually called goblins like those in Moria, Mordor orcs are uruk hai (big ones) from among goblins/regular-orcs handpicked and bred by Sauron, and Uruk Hai (Isengard) is Saruman taking mordor orcs and mixing them with humans plus more directed breeding. Elves in Tolkien are supposed to be both taller AND stronger than humans. Galadriel is like 7 feet tall or some shit like that. Then again in the books there were no elves there and the defenders were basically doing a desperate last stand in some caves by the time gandalf brought the army in. And since he arrived in the morning and orcs hate and are hurt by sunlight (because of their goblin ancestry), that was enough for the pike formation to break, and then cavalry against panicking disorganised infantry
It's important to note the mention of the orcs being stronger and more well armored only applied to the Uruk Hai of Orthanc, which Saruman had specifically gone out of his way to breed and create. The orcs of Morder are still your bog standard goblins, which means smaller and weaker. Even ignoring that though, there are real world examples of very small forces managing to successful hold out in a siege against overwhelming forces. In the Seige of Eger in 1552, the defenders were outnumbered 17 to 1 and still managed to repel the attackers after 39 days of fighting, and they weren't even an elite fighting force, many among their number being women and refugee peasants.
“Worked” is the word you’re looking for, not “works”. You should learn how tense works. Past tense vs future tense, and avoid using both in the same sentence. “I am went to the store.” 😂
Actually, it's not unlikely. Metal armor does not hold up well against even normal musket shot. It has a tendency to fracture inwards and the armor itself becomes damaging when the shards get imbedded in your body. There's a reason the advent of gunpowder and it's widespread use in combat precipitated the decline of heavy metal armor.
But yeah, bullets almost certainly. Arrows, almost certainly not. If an arrow had the same armor penetration power as a bullet, soldiers wouldn't have bothered to wear heavy armor.
Only some bows and it depends on distance as well, even the English Longbows have a hard time penetrating plate armor. There is a reason full plate armor was developed and a lot of Medieval armies rely on crossbows to deal with it.
No, armor is designed to pretect against everything. After all, its purpose is to keep you alive in battle. Most armor is designed in such a way that every surface is angled. This means that unless you get a very lucky angle of attack, an arrow will almost always glance off of the armor and deal negligible damage (obviously, the force of the collision is still felt). Even chainmail work excellently at stopping arrows, although less reliable than plate.
@@silverswordsmith5424 Shadiversity shows this in tests and how amazing plate armor actually is. You need a lot of weight and penetration force to pierce it.
@@Darknimbus As it turns out, Shad is the reason I am aware of things like this. Excellent place to learn medieval facts. TH-camrs like him are the main reason I started taking such an interest in Medieval History.
An armored knight in medieval ages was essentially a tank, swords, arrows, crossbow bolts (unless the most powerful variety), daggers, whatever you hit plate armor with, it would not penetrate. It COULD however be bent, malformed. That is why hammers and other blunt objects were a preferred weapon to tackle such an opponent. If you didn't have a hammer, you had to take the knight to the ground, have a dagger, and find the gaps (armpits, neck, eye-slots etc) to randomly stab into, in hopes of disabling or killing. A really powerful crossbow or war-bow can dent armor too. If plate is bent, restricting your chest, the knight could suffocate, and their chest cavity couldnt expand enough to let air in.
Mate...Have you ever sean German or French plate armor sets from the 14th or 15th centuries ? Also its somewhat of a myth that ''you cant move well with plate armour''. Already debunked.
![[LIVE] MCHOICE & MINT AWARDS 2024 at TRUE ICON HALL, ICONSIAM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMewUeT5nbY/mqdefault.jpg)
Had armor been easily penetrated by ordinary weapons, no one would bother to wear it.
Ikr. Even such unassuming thing like padded cloth gambeson will make difference between "Whoa thats a nasty cut, he migh not make unless treated by bloody good doctor" and "Whoa we probably need to stich him back together before burial"
It really drives me up a wall. the most infamous of all is Star War's Battle of Endor. a military that conquered planets defeated by bears with clubs. then when they do shoot back, more than half the creatures in the entire galaxy are bullet proof. more than just creatures on Endor.
Armor that ain't worth shit and guns that can't kill anything. wonderful.
Are there any movies where heavy armor actually works?
@@christianweibrecht6555game of thrones season 1 - 4
@@christianweibrecht6555 The King is a pretty good example
Got to admire the guy still not raising the alarm or seeking cover, just standing there tanking arrow after arrow without budging.
This guy knows how to hold aggro for the team.
Well, his body hitting the ground below warns everyone.
It was power move to show Orcs who is Sigma.
it's as loud as a bell, i bet he won't shout as loud
and faramir was alerted
boromir would've already lead the countercharge as their father would remark!
Must've been the wind.
@@filipmaly6603 Me when the orcs of Mordor are beta cucks
The biggest disappointment in these movies was Gondorians being clowned on every scene they're in.
truth, my biggest gripe as well
I heard that in the book, they are actually effective and good in fighting
@@jet047 they held back mordor effectively for 60 years. Mordor couldn't get past its own borders effectively.
@feudalfrits9559 just once I wanted a scene where full played Gondorians were winning.
@@enomisv9830well…to be fair Sauron was always just test them until the time was right. Then when he threw his full military might around he came down on everyone like a hammer.
Gondor soldiers will wipe the orcs very easily if there weren't the Witch King and Nazguls. Peter Jackson made only mistake showing Gondorians as weak, but instead, they were Middle-Earth finest soldiers after Dunedains of Arnor and Noldors.
Considered the best military, being able to field the largest well equipped army with a high number of veterans.
@@linming5610 Even in fading, Gondor was still strong and mighty enough to give good combat and organize powerful defense, especially with good leadership like Boromir, Aragorn, Imrahil, Faramir and even Denethor if there wasn't such a destructive influence from Palantir.
Always felt it was thier leadership. Like faramirs vastly outnumbered group defending the river. Then have a hundred calvary charge a superior dug in force. "Where are Gondor's armies" spread thin...like butter over to much bread. Those that fought were few. Denethor dropped the ball. Books are generally always better still loved it though.
@@kyos8462 This still doesn't excuse a Gondorian soldier losing to an orc 1v1. In the book one Gondorian soldier was worth at least eight orcs.
@@kyos8462 In the books, Denethor's military decisions were sound, if ruthless. For example, instead of sending Faramir on a pointless cavalry charge against a city, he sent Faramir to reinforce Osgiliath *before* the orcs crossed the river. At that point, while the orcs were almost certain to defeat the defenders due to their overwhelming numbers, the defensive position granted by the river enabled Faramir to make the crossing very costly to the orcs, making the defense a net benefit to Gondor even considering their smaller numbers.
Again, it was ruthless (especially since Denethor's own son was among the soldiers sent to a battle where most would die), but sound from a purely practical viewpoint.
Really, the films made a lot of the characters more flawed for purposes of humor or drama.
Orcs are cannon fodder by numbers, but they are never expressed to be weak or incapable of a good fight in the books. They're just brutes, nothing more, nothing less. Men had their heroic moments and specially numenorean descendants; yet their foe was still a real menace, not just some cripple sluggish adversary
Yeah cannon fodder, sure
Ignore that 1 orc who just almost killed a main character in a 1v1 effortlessly
You just have to accept the fact that this movies are garbage
@@adventurer7579 cry about it
@@chueki5874 😂😂
And yet in the books its made clear an orc cannot defeat a gondorian in a 1v1 but 10 v1. They're clowned on in these movies and you know it
@tylerellis9097 when did they ever show 1v1 in these scenes anyways? You don't see all the orcs coming from the boats?
In the book, Chad Gondorian infantry went outside the Gate into the Pellennorian field, to help Rohan cavalry and Aragorn's host in battle.
Orcs using torches when they're trying to be stealthy? Granted, they're dumb orcs so whatever. But how did Gondorians not notice them sooner?
a lot of mist
They did, this was a planned ambush
The fog over the river for one. And second, the Gondorian garrison WASN'T expecting an attack ON said river.
Because the Gondorians are even dumber, evidenced by their combat skills in these movies
I'd also point out that orcs almost NEVER use boats, and the gondorians know it. The forces of darkness are generally scared of water with good reason.
Even as a kid it was always frustrating to see properly trained and equipped soldiers get dunked on by bow legged gimpy canon fodder. Funnyliy enough the BFME games and mods better reflect this. Orcs as fodder and Easterlings as elite infantry you can upgrade for example.
Bfme a name I haven't heard in years
@@capitandiriangen8981I know right xD
BFME community is still alive and well!
i loved beating the hell out of Urk hai with Rohans average farmer XD
@@veilnebula2411 Or cavalry charge with Theoden and other heroes. Really made you feel like the epic scene in the last movie.
One of my most hated moments in the movies is near the end of the siege of Minas Tirith and a little orc jumps down on a gondorian and kills him by biting his neck…..which was covered in chainmail…..
That and when the Gondorians prepare a defensive phalanx at the gate only for the Ologs to smash through it like they weren’t there. Gondor gets done dirty in the movies.
The trolls smashing open the gondorian formation made sense to me; they've got massive strength, dense muscles and tough scaly hide under thick armour.
Not sure I agree about the biting orc either, don't the gondorians depicted in the movie have pretty poorly protected necks? It's not like they're wearing chainmail coifs, and I don't recall seeing anyone wear a gorget either, so I could see a tired gondorian who's been active and under stress all night and longer being downed and being chewed on.
EDIT I rewatched the scene, and they do in fact wear gorgets! My bad. It's such a brief scene so I can't tell completely, but I *think* I see the guy losing his helmet and having his hair pulled to open the throat up? Might give an industrious orc an opening.
@eddymercan7487 Ironically one of the better armor depictions in fantasy in many cases. Not all but not bad throughout especially in comparison to shows like Vikings for example.
Do you know how hard it is for Phalanx to be maintained perfectly during a charge? You're talking a few hundred defenders, trying to hold back a wave of thousands.
I'll give you many of the other examples, but it wasn't exactly like it the trolls were facing a bristling Macedonian phalanx of 18 ft. pikes with no army, they were literally armored trolls attacking a shield wall, which was never going to end well for the Gondorians.
Though I do think that there should've at least been a few small scenes of the Gondorian soldiers winning, or at least doing something heroic, not just getting beaten up by the orcs.
@@chubbyninja89 the trolls are probably the perfect tool for breaking a mere spear wall ofc, but it would’ve been nice to see just ONE of them go down so it feels more like a pitched and desperate fight.
This movie made Gondor soldiers look like cowardly untrained idiots, in the books they were all brave and good soldiers that were just worn down and overwhelmed by numbers
Not the twang still going in the background! 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣
Movies were my 1st introduction to the LOTR universe at the age of 6. I started getting into books later, but while watching movies I considered Gondorians very uselss, obviously because of their depiction. It was only when I started reading books I realised how strong they were
The film made Gondor look so weak. Gondor had two to three times the army Rohan had.
Also, the army of the dead do not act like they did in the movies - they can’t harm you. Minus Tirath was saved by Aragorn leading a Gondorian army from south Gondor.
Yep. The army of the dead and the way Gondor is portrayed are my biggest problems with the movies.
@@rafaelschaffner No, your problem is that you were expecting a 1:1 translation of the books into film. That's not how it works. No film based on a book will ever be a 100% accurate translation for a number of reasons. I read the books and I still loved the movies because I'm capable of recognizing that they are two different things.
@@Commodore22345 Haha, no I wasn't. I watched the movies BEFORE I read the books. I was raised on the movies and didn't read the books till couple years ago. So no I wasn't "expecting a 1:1 translation of the book." Nice try though.
@@rafaelschaffner Gondor had to be portrayed as weak, to maintain cinematic tension. To have the audience feel a sense of hopelessness and despair. Movies have a faster pace than novels. In the books, Gondor could be portrayed as strong and heroic fairly often because the pace of the novels is very slow. Gondor's losses could be offset by a few victories, and the novels could still maintain dramatic tension.
@@user-qr6eb4jg9n Yes, but the soldiers didn't have to be getting clowned on every time you see them fight.
Its armor in movies in general that get underestimated, if it wouldnt work, people wouldnt be wearing it back then.
Imagine if the pikemen didn't raise their pikes when blinded by Gandalf.
That was something that bothered me and my grandad when we watched it years ago, yeah you can't see, but hold it in front of you still and brace, why when you can't see your opponent would you not swing wildly or keep your weapon in front of you?
@@redrangerrr558 Being blinded by intense bright light hurts, and the orcs were notorious for disliking sunlight to begin with. Kinda hard to keep your composure when you're eyeballs are suddenly burning with light. It's not that far fetched. In fact, Alexander the Great was advised by his war council to use the time of day/light reflecting into the eyes of enemies to give his soldiers the advantage, though Alexander declined it stating, 'I'll not have the sun stealing my glory.' and won the battle regardless.
No it's pretty damn bad for a battle scene. Tolkien wrote it completely differently, but Jackson (who didn't understand military tactics) rewrote it for the film and had cavalry charging directly onto pikes.
I get that it's a legitimate strategy, but it's typically used on infantry that needs to see their opponent in order to parry and such, these are a tight formation of pikes, if they had kept the pikes braced they would have been fine.
And this is how you know barely anyone arguing in this thread has the slightest clue what they're talking about. It's well and clear established in both book and movies that orcs are painfully allergic to sunlight. What do you people think all that fuss about the black storm clouds drawing nearer and nearer towards Gondor? That's Sauron covering his army from sunlight. Obviously none of you have read the books OR watched the movies yet argue about battle tactics as if you had.
Fucking tourists, man.
Isn’t this like a major problem in middle earth movies, that one scene where a horse just run straight to the uruk hai’s.
Anything against the Uruk Hai gets a pass from me as they're born days before. And it was probably their first time seeing a horse. I would be scared shitless too
At least in that scene they’re blinded by the sun coming over the hill
In these movies everyone on a horse is immortal, like remember when they ride out of helms deep into thousands of urukhai and none of them even get scratched. They EVEN STOP MOVING AND FIGHT AND LOOK UP and nothing happens while they’re surrounded on every side by urukhai. It was just how the movies were, anyone on foot fighting looks like a total idiot but if you’re on a horse you are immune from all harm.
@crabberdabberye to be fair there's a reason heavy horsemen dominated the battlefield in history until gunpowder.
@mightguy911 dominated until pike formations
If the amour worked then gondorians will be able to kill on average 3 to 5 orcs but the problem is that there is at least 10 orcs for every gondorian so the Gondorians eventually get fatigued and then overwhelmed by sheer numbers of Mordor's forces, so imagine seeing the Gondorians making brave stand able to kill a fair number of orcs each but the orcs end up swarming the gondorians and pinning down the Gondorians so that the orcs can drive daggers into the gaps of the armour or smashing the gondorians on the head with maces
Well and in the books, this battle in particular lasts *all* night and into the morning, with the hopelessly outnumbered Gondorian defenses managing to hold off the overwhelming force of orcs, taking a third of their force as casualties before retreating to the defensive wall surrounding Pelanor fields, at which point they held out for another full day before that position gets overwhelmed and they are pursued across the fields towards Minas Tirith by Nazgul and a large force. It's at this point that a host of knights actually ride out from Minas Tirith to cover their retreat.
They use the mace that way in the Battle of Osgiliath later in the movie.
Problem is with the depiction. Like you can show a Gondorian kill 2-3 Orcs, but then get swarmed and killed by 5-6 Orcs, then it'll still show the desperation of the situation without making them look incompetent. Peter Jackson just doesn't understand how medieval soldiers fight.
The arrow for sure wouldn’t penetrate like it did but getting hit by that would stil cause pain
No, it would not.
@@ShingenNolaan Some tingly sensation, maybe. The arrow still travel at a good speed.
Unless he was hit in his helmet which might confused him for a bit.
@@s0cc451 It's rigid armour that wouldn't even be touching his body underneath. For an underpowered bow like that he'd barely feel it touching.
25 lbs bow vs 2-3mm steel...... i don´t think so 🤣
"magic"
They are certainly not 25 lbs. T LOTR Weapons and Warfare manual states that Gondor longbows are 140 lbs and had a range of 200 yards. Orc short bows had 100 yard effective range but no draw weight was given. Maybe it is less than Gondor longbows, or maybe it's because they have shorter draw length. But a war bow is at least 80 lbs draw weight.
@@spectre9065 okay, but the stunt bow in the clip never had more than 30lbs draw weight!
@@guntherhuemer1767 And the stunt armor was probably made of aluminum.
@@feudalfrits9559Well that why it called "movies" it's not accurate as real life btw
Sauron has increased the penetration of arrows by 1000% in the movies..😂😂
Don't even get me started on how the Uruk-hai are so heavily armored with the equivalent of cardboard.
Funny story: when me and my grandma was watching this movie she thought for a second that the gondorian helmets were kkk hoods
Best story so far XD
Sounds like some "fans".
She’s not racist just want to make that clear
@@Rptr-qo8zz She's not racist, she's Pavlov's dog
Yeah, the Gondorians were basically wearing paper that looked like well developed steel plate over mail and padded wool. They should have been taking five to ten orcs for each one of them that fell. Unlike the Easterlings and Southrons, Orcs are pretty much only viable as troops due to their sheer numbers.
I agree, Peter should have included the Easterlings if he wanted to show evil combatants who are as capable as Gondorian soldiers, sadly he used them for background noise.
Why would anyone put an armour on if it can be penetrated by a single arrow ?
@TheCartier2335 (0:04 “Gothmog”): I think it has to do something with - OH MY, GOSH! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU’RE FACE (RedLetterMedia)?? 🤣
Why would you spend your life becoming a bowman if you couldn't put someone in armor down? It works both ways.
@@camojoe83 Not really...
@@camojoe83 To be a hunter ? Plus armour is expensive. Most of the soldiers couldn’t afford it.
@@TheCartier2335 the ones that couldn't afford it weren't worth shooting with a bow most of the time, either.
Clearly an armour piercing arrow head with evil enchantment was used 😅
John Snow was the main strategist in Osgiliath at that time. It,s impossible to defend it worse.
I presume you mean Show Jon Snow? Cos Book Jon is a skilled defender/commander.
@@DraconimLt Of course. Like Stannis himself XD
@@juang.4718 hmm debatable, who got himself defeated and almost trapped at the blackwater, and stuck in a snowbank in the North and was going to go for the Dreadfort first until Jon talked him out of it? Stannis, in the books too. I'm not saying he's *bad*, but we haven't really seen him shine anywhere except Fair Isle, and that was at Sea, and against a Wildling horde. If you mean defending, I'll give you the Siege of Storm's End, but Mace was hardly trying, was he?
@@DraconimLt We could talk about Victarion as well but Im afraid certain writer is gonna die, happy and wealthy, before finishing certain book...XD
@@juang.4718 what does Victarion have to do with what I said about Stannis?
Say what you want about the orcs but that was a great shot
Always blew my mind how weak gondor armor actually was that mere short hunting bows were able to penetrate it.
But he said, “kill him.” No armor works after that…duh. Lol
Maybe AI will be good enough someday to just copy/paste the whole battle for Gondor from the book and it will create movies scene for us 😅
It’d be a bigger piss on Tolkien’s grave
One of the few gripes I have about the Peter Jackson movies is the Gondorian armor, the books describe it as chainmail and leather much like the Rohirimm wear. With the only "plate" armor in use during the period being the Southrons and Easterlings. To show how much more advanced they were in comparison to the peoples of the west, thanks in part to their worship/allegiance to Sauron. Also the armor doesn't look like metal at all but plastic, both in looks and the uniformity
And also in its ability to stop arrows, apparently.
How can it look like plastic when it literally was forged for the movie.
It would also make more sense for Gondorians to get killed if most of them were in chainmail armour too. Plate armour is way too protective, at least chainmail could sometimes be penetrated.
Easterlings don't use plate armor though, they use scale and lamellar armor.
@@TheNEOverse I mean a lot of Orcs are actually using blunt weapons which plate armor does not really help much against.
A sin not confined to LotR. Game of Thrones was very bad for this.
Hah it was indeed an awkward thing to do in the movie!! Heheh if they actually had the arrow hit the throat...just in between into the exposed parts or in the eye...THAT would make more sense! Indeed Tolkien himself in books shows that chainmail armor can actually stop arrows...especially those of better make...like elven armor or armo made of mithril...off of which the arros just bump of not leaving any mark! Also orc archers are actually quite decent...and many a hero in Middle-earth, might warrior of Men, big and strong...in the end got an orc arrow in the eye!
And this is I think the most unpopular change Jackson has made, I think. Showing Gondor in a very bad light, Of Denethor being a raving lunatic immediately, not even a mention of him just holding back the evils of mordor for more many years. Boromir got this treatment, but Denethor should've as well. We never even had the Swan Knights swooping in and such. But again, I understand the direction he had made as making this an "epic fantasy movie" would require him to having an actual black vs white kind of thing, wherein the light is in a very disadvantaged situation.
But I still wish he had still shown the last stand of the swan knights, remove the bad faramir going sallying out for whatever reason. Make them a force to be reckoned with, show why Gondor still stood.
I also love how the Gondorian strategy is essentially a half broken fortress followed by a open field that they have exactly one cavalry charge to defend it.
I mean I get why his son wouldn’t but didn’t anyone else notice Denethor was an idiot?
I mean his plan was literally to let a enemy besiege them whos greatest strength is that they never really have to stop fighting because they literally have nothing else to do.
The whole point of Denethor's character was that he was driven into despair and madness by the magic of Sauron. So yeah, he wasn't in his right mind, and people definitely noticed it, but they were not in a position to question him. Nobody except Gandalf was.
Yeah, the movies omitted the outer wall of the Pelennor fields (along with the houses on, you know, said fields). There were plenty of defendable positions between Minas Tirith and Osgiliath and they performed this kind of tiered defence in the book. And movie-Denethor is sometimes so hilariously foolish I can't take him seriously. 😅 I don't like the changes they made to his character but I have to give it to the actor; he played the role he was given like an absolute champion.
The Guy who got hit by an arrow would just get injured from the impact or from the ground he fallen to.
Yes those short bows should not penetrate plate armour.
Haha even the sound effect is realistic. Nicely done.
That arrow was powered by magic duhh..
I knew the films before the books. I grew up with the films, I was between 6 and 8 years old when they came out. And although I read the books quickly, around the age of 12, I still loved the films just as much. But since I was 18, my love for films has diminished year after year while my passion for books has increased.
I understand that for the purposes of the film, we remove characters, we modify facts, we arrange things. But...
I do not forgive the bad representation of Aragorn, who flees his destiny, who never behaves like a king, it is Gandalf and Elrond who push him to assume his destiny, in the books it is exactly the opposite.
Elijah Wood's acting is particularly bad, he smiles stupidly or overplays his discomfort. And in a Frodo emptied of all his substance and his character by Jackson. Frodo is a hobbit like any other, without distinction, which is the opposite in the film.
The character of Faramir, the actor is soft, smooth, without stature and charisma, and the character is also emptied of substance.
The use of Arwen is uninteresting, at the beginning super warrior of Death who faces the nine alone, thus removing one of Frodo's strongest moments, and then, a girl who throws a tantrum with her father who gets involved in everything . Just good for giving Aragorn a French kiss at the end.
Gimli who is there to make you laugh....
I always love the films, the music is perfect, the majority of the actors are impeccable, the characters of Gandalf and Theoden are perfectly represented, Theoden is even more highlighted in the films than in the books, the atmosphere is superb , the exceptional special effects, and still relevant 25 years later etc etc.
But less and less with age.
Sorry for my english, i'm French.
Unfortunately, i can confirm that I feel the same, watching the trilogy over and over again. Bad moments (like the scene in this video) are becoming brighter, while the former fairy atmosphere gets weaker 😢
I feel the same. Though I think the books keep becoming better at a faster rate than the movies become worse. 😄 I also agree that the music is incredible and I think the casting is very good on the whole.
And about Frodo: he's one of my favourite characters in the book and they made him pretty much inrecognizable. Though I must say I absolutely love Elijah Wood as Frodo while in the Shire. He works very well as a young Frodo who's about to become an adult. But then the movies don't do the 17 year gap between Bilbo's party and Frodo leaving the Shire (rather understandably though, I might add), and so we're "stuck" with the "young Frodo" for the rest of the films.
An English war bow would penetrate steel plate. That little orc bow wouldn’t hurt anyone.
Could not would
The chad just absorbs those inferior chumps arrows I like this edit
Penetration depends on the balance between metal resilience and speed.
The films are still pretty darn great to this day, but Petey Jack's love of monster movies really shines through too much sometimes. I'll never forget how he tried to make us feel bad for the troll that had just stabbed Frodo and smiled about it, or how the horse-mounted rider's best plan for fighting giant elephant creatures was to charge right into their feet and tusks.
Is because the orcrist weapon that being enchanted by dark magic, specifily crafted for penetrating gondorian armor..😊
I know that you can't hear anything with a Gondorian infantry helmet on. It's a Cone of Silence.
Really though, armors are protayed this way in almost every form of media that has it.
Heck, a dagger, a fucking dagger!!
"nUhUh, itS onLy a tHIn sHeet Of sTeEl" It's still FUCKING STEEL.
Lore accurate
my only respite is that i'm assuming it's low quality armor
Imagine to wear heavy armor which is penetrated by rusty arrow, shot from small bow, made of garbage 🤦♂️
Now imagine if the orcs were actually orc-sized, too
Shit you're right, in the books they were actually a lot smaller than humans.
Looking back it's kinda weird considering all modern fantasy (including tolkien related stuff) always portrays them as these towering monstrosities, l guess jackson went with the middle way simply for practical reasons.
@@flatheadgg2443 they're not much smaller than humans in the books. Numenorians, yes, they're tiny compared to them.
@@minecraftfox4384 Well, Sam and Frodo were able to pass themselves off as orcs. At Helm's Deep Gimli had no problem fighting fighting orcs, even the larger Uruks, but he considered the Dunlendings overlarge for him. Until the modern usage took over Orcs were Goblins.
I laughed so hard at this 😂
Glad to see, I'm not the only one who disappointed by this scene 😅 Let's be honest, if Faramir was really so weak leader, as in this battle, we would be totally agree with his father 😂
Probably the biggest criticism that I have with Peter Jackson's trilogy, he makes Gondorian soldiers look like complete amateurs.
This armor protects easy< against so tiny bows, easy. And it's in this case lazy film making. If the arrow penetrates in a gap of the armor it would work.
*quiet!* meanwhile their crafts hace lanterns on them lol, always bugs me with this scene
Yeah! Real Medieval armor can stop an arrow. Well depends on the quality of the steel, so we’ll just assume that poor soldier got the bad batch. Putin probably ordered his armor.
This is great 😂
😂 this is great!
As entertaining as the PJ lotr films are (not the Hobbit films, those are hot garbage) one of the more annoying repeat features is the way he continues to oversell the efficacy of orcs/uruks in battle, and downplays the Gondorians. The armies of Isenguard and Mordor were a threat because of there overwhelming numbers. Despite being hopelessly outnumbered, the free peoples have repeatedly defeated much larger armies, as their forces are better trained/more skilled, and typically better equipped.
It's a shame we didn't see that properly reflected in the battle scenes in the films.
Too be fair Platearmor wasn't made to deflect arrows but blows, even though this bow was still too small
People underestimate how strong bows actually are. Different armor also works better for different things. That armor may be better for slashing or stabbing may also be old armor that was good for arrows, but the orcs may have new bows and better arrows that make the armor useless
Bow cannot penetrate a plate armor. Definitely not a cheap bow made for some ragtag Orcs.
@@SleepyGaming-ie9fbBows of sufficient strength can penetrate plate armor of sufficiently low quality
@@randomelite4562 And Gondor happens to have the best smiths among human countries in Middle Earth.
@@SleepyGaming-ie9fb Yes, but apparently not in the version where they’ve developed plate armor
😂
>!text!
Armor being 0% effective and Rohirim charging the Oliphanats was cringe.
that's why its called fantasy for a reason. huh?
@@The_Dodge_Meister Fantasy does not have to equal stupidity. You can have dragons and zombies and literal flaming swords, but just because you do, that doesn't mean that you can just plain forget the iron fleet exists, in a fixed position.
@@ArtypNkFacts, although I feel like those lotr mistakes ain't that bad
the oliphaunt charge... man i cringe to death when i see them charge and die at it. they should have at least flanked them or better yet, stay close to the city walls so the wall archers can take care of it as we saw faramir do easily before. no lets just run right at it in close file. bruh
@@captaindonut5240 Same with pre puberty kids learning the elements and beating a genocidal Empire. What a waste of money and praise. And it deserved that movie.
Yeah now talk about how 10k orc die and fail to capture a small city, orcs that was mentioned 20min back in the same movie to have impenetrable armor and more strength that previous orcs
The entire movie (all of them) are bullshit if it was going to be realistic to their own rules the armies of dark lord should have cheesed all the way
tbf they were storming a fortress, real life castles enabled fifty people to hold back thousands, storming fortifications ain't east, even if you do have a w ay to destroy the walls
@@cathulionetharn5139 you missed the point
They were orcs, it was said they had very strong armor yet the armor has never saved even 1 from an arrow or slash of sword
Yet they got 1 tapped by arrows and all fell
The movie is inconsistent and conveniently changed for the plot to progress
@@adventurer7579 eh, them being orcs isn't actually that big of a deal, unlike in most other fantasy Tolkien orcs are actually smaller and weaker than others, in fact orcs are actually called goblins like those in Moria, Mordor orcs are uruk hai (big ones) from among goblins/regular-orcs handpicked and bred by Sauron, and Uruk Hai (Isengard) is Saruman taking mordor orcs and mixing them with humans plus more directed breeding.
Elves in Tolkien are supposed to be both taller AND stronger than humans.
Galadriel is like 7 feet tall or some shit like that.
Then again in the books there were no elves there and the defenders were basically doing a desperate last stand in some caves by the time gandalf brought the army in. And since he arrived in the morning and orcs hate and are hurt by sunlight (because of their goblin ancestry), that was enough for the pike formation to break, and then cavalry against panicking disorganised infantry
It's important to note the mention of the orcs being stronger and more well armored only applied to the Uruk Hai of Orthanc, which Saruman had specifically gone out of his way to breed and create. The orcs of Morder are still your bog standard goblins, which means smaller and weaker. Even ignoring that though, there are real world examples of very small forces managing to successful hold out in a siege against overwhelming forces. In the Seige of Eger in 1552, the defenders were outnumbered 17 to 1 and still managed to repel the attackers after 39 days of fighting, and they weren't even an elite fighting force, many among their number being women and refugee peasants.
@@silverswordsmith5424 do y'all even read the books?
“Worked” is the word you’re looking for, not “works”.
You should learn how tense works. Past tense vs future tense, and avoid using both in the same sentence. “I am went to the store.” 😂
Not an uncommon mistake amongst non-native English speaker.
Steel arrows can piece steel armour if got enough force behind it. Do you think a basic colt pistol could be stop by the thick uruk hai armour?
Actually, it's not unlikely. Metal armor does not hold up well against even normal musket shot. It has a tendency to fracture inwards and the armor itself becomes damaging when the shards get imbedded in your body. There's a reason the advent of gunpowder and it's widespread use in combat precipitated the decline of heavy metal armor.
No. They can't.
But yeah, bullets almost certainly. Arrows, almost certainly not. If an arrow had the same armor penetration power as a bullet, soldiers wouldn't have bothered to wear heavy armor.
Only some bows and it depends on distance as well, even the English Longbows have a hard time penetrating plate armor. There is a reason full plate armor was developed and a lot of Medieval armies rely on crossbows to deal with it.
Isnt armour vulnerable to arrows and meant to protect from swords or do i have that wrong?
No, armor is designed to pretect against everything. After all, its purpose is to keep you alive in battle. Most armor is designed in such a way that every surface is angled. This means that unless you get a very lucky angle of attack, an arrow will almost always glance off of the armor and deal negligible damage (obviously, the force of the collision is still felt). Even chainmail work excellently at stopping arrows, although less reliable than plate.
@@silverswordsmith5424 Shadiversity shows this in tests and how amazing plate armor actually is. You need a lot of weight and penetration force to pierce it.
@@Darknimbus As it turns out, Shad is the reason I am aware of things like this. Excellent place to learn medieval facts. TH-camrs like him are the main reason I started taking such an interest in Medieval History.
An armored knight in medieval ages was essentially a tank, swords, arrows, crossbow bolts (unless the most powerful variety), daggers, whatever you hit plate armor with, it would not penetrate. It COULD however be bent, malformed. That is why hammers and other blunt objects were a preferred weapon to tackle such an opponent.
If you didn't have a hammer, you had to take the knight to the ground, have a dagger, and find the gaps (armpits, neck, eye-slots etc) to randomly stab into, in hopes of disabling or killing. A really powerful crossbow or war-bow can dent armor too. If plate is bent, restricting your chest, the knight could suffocate, and their chest cavity couldnt expand enough to let air in.
@@Waffalish Or the beck^^
That was stupid
If gondorian armour actually worked that soldier wouldn't be wearing it. cause it d be damn heavy 😂
Mate...Have you ever sean German or French plate armor sets from the 14th or 15th centuries ?
Also its somewhat of a myth that ''you cant move well with plate armour''. Already debunked.
Yeeaah the worst bow in middle earth vs fine Gondorian Plate armor :D
😂