The Worst Thing In Today's Society
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
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sufficient enough incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's law
stupid law
"sufficient enough" very weird strange rare grammar displayed here.
@@DanielSanGV not really
'We cannot do wrong; neither have we any disposition to do it, for we do not know what it is.
-Mark Twain
But is there a CGP Grey's law? 🤔
I've noticed how comments are becoming more toxic over time. It's rare I can get someone with a differing opinion to engage in discussion.
I guess we're all biased in a way because I've seen the opposite.
Can someone tell me when does this discussion occurs on the full video?
@@fahimshahriar2441 Listen for the word "jerk"
You're wrong, let's fight about it!
@@julianfabbian6727 A duel at dawn.
God that seems true. The worst part is people don't want to try and view things from different angles. They get comfortable in that position and that's a dangerous thing.
They just outlined how they don't necessarily want that, they are hyperfocused... you are doing it too! Lol, shorts getting too long now
No disrespect mean't, I just think it's funny
From a slightly older person: it's always been like that. Well, for as long as I have been around, anyway. As well as from what I can gather from having read a lot all my life. Just look at political ideologies in the 21th century alone and how quickly they spread and how murderous they became.
It's just human nature and social media finally makes it impossible to ignore.
@@avopeac6300 We do say we want that, yet many of us don't do that, because that's uncomfortable. The original comment is right.
and the sadest thing is poeple who are open mind to see the other view usually being call as base, or weak. and it just feels like the having open mindness is not generally accepted anymore. perhaps it also due to people who are open minded are usually didn't have much information about the topic. yet that just discourage others to look the other side.
its impossible to have wider pov when people are gatekeeping opinions.
@avopeac6300 but he didn't say they want to stay there. He said they often don't want to try new perspectives, which isn't the same. Being comfortable often makes it hard to change toward something you want. I think that's the point he was making.
Dr. K is so damn smooth with conversation. He gets interrupted when talking about perception and immediately asks him to clarify how he agrees. Granted, he was looking for his opinion on it but still, very smooth.
Absolutely. It's clear in the video that K had a thought he had intended to share. But when PS started riffing, K just settled into the listening role super quick, and the exchange was still good.
I noticed that too. Kinda wanted to hear what he originally had to say.
@mercesletifer47 tbf he usually cycles back round, which just shows how good at his job and making conversation not become awkward
Yeah I also noticed that as well, Dr K is so smooth and collected and when he went in on the perception angle and got interrupted with the exact thing we was trying to explain about he stayed calm and smooth and the clarification was clarifying
Taking advantage of opportunities is what I would call it
And then people who can be more nuanced, open-minded, moderate get treated the same way as if their stance isn't nuanced. Like everyone else just assumes that your stance is just as hyperfixated as theirs. And it always has to be a "battle of ad hominems".
They say the mark of stupidity is to believe everyone knows exactly what you know
Can someone tell me when does this discussion occurs on the full video?
Nuanced and open-minded does not mean moderate and that's where you're getting mixed up. A moderate position on an active problem is not nuanced or open-minded it is actively choosing to not care
@@Comrade_Dom Yea I may be tieing the words a bit too closely. Well, in my original comment, I wasn't trying to say that those 3 words all were close to the same thing. But rather, I was trying to say that people could be those things in varying combinations.
Also, my meaning of those words may be different than yours, and other peoples.
To me, moderate means that 2 conflicting parties should have a civilised discussion and understand eachothers stances, and come to a solution that both parties can agree to.
Where as, a non moderate (extreme) viewpoint would say that each party thinks the other person is wrong and their ideas should be either shunned or completely wiped out. But both sides think that, which is illogical, especially if both sides have good (or popular) arguments.
Being open-minded means being able to consider what both parties say and treat them with equad weight.
Being nuanced means putting deeper thought into a matter, considering that there may be missing information (context) that is important. Not jumping to a conclusion until sufficient information is presented.
So at least for me, this is how I personally understand the words. It may be different from how other people think about them, but the point behind my original post is about the ideas behind the words, not necesarily the words themselves.
But I personally group the 3 words together because they all apply to what is said in the video. Very often, people on the internet don't exemplify these 3 traits.
People can often be extreme in their view, closed-minded to other people's stance, and disreguard important details for the express desire to just be mad at random people and antagonize them with only surface level info.
It's very easy on the internet for random people to just not care about eachother, and these things can be made worse depending on how the platform is designed (like having short 60 second videos).
From my point of view is not a new thing, is just that now we notice it because of social media. In the past people would have these perceptions but only talk about it with friends and family.
Yep, I agree. Although I think it has intensified divisive thinking and being disagreeable (in a toxic unconstructive way). But sectarianism and polarity has always been there. Historically there's sometimes been violence because of it, same as now. Now, we tend to scream at each other online rather than purely engaging in issues and ideas via long form letters or dialogue.
Short and brutish jibes without ramifications. Otherwise it's called an essay. Like this is turning into haha
I agree but only to a degree. People have obviously gotten more extreme, on all sides of the spectrum.
@@AN0NYM0US109 what issues you do you think that is true of, just to clarify a bit?
For example, I find more people are engaged in politics in a passionate way. Also it tends to be very much a constant thing, rather than only at election time, or something that is explicitly related to them (Idont think that's necessarily destructive). In some ways it's really healthy, depends
Part of the problem is people reacting to other people online, this is part of the perception problem
In the past you could have a bad view point, then express it to the people around you and get negative reactions. And then you're thinking "Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's bad." Now the internet helps group you with the few other people who share that view point, and all of them will say "Yeah, we're right, and the people who disagree are just corrupt, or virtue signaling, or only disagreeing to try to score points". And then as a group you become isolated from common sense and from positive influences
He's absolutely right about them not seeing themselves as a jerk or being narrow minded which keeps them from actually expanding their POV. It makes it so much worse because you just cant try to reason with them either. It was bad before but covid + social media have truly exposed the limit to some peoples critical thinking
Agreed. Leftists are ruining this nation.
I'm curious about your thoughts surrounding covid.
Yours is very limited
I'm glad there are other people who are just as worried about it as I am. It's like I can't talk to people anymore. I start to feel a bit isolated when I'm surrounded by people who don't want to explore new ideas.
Critical thinking as a life skill has disappeared. We are in deep trouble.
Was critical thinking there to begin with?
I warn against saying "disappeared" when discussing a whole population. Decreased? Sure. You just hear so much more from so many more people nowadays and they aren't the smartest or most mature representation of society. Twitter and reddit aren't reflection of the real world, reactionary and extreme communities do not describe an entire generation. Our parents were just as insane, they just didn't have the means to share their views with millions without any effort or consequences.
Ik it might be a hot take but the decrease in students understanding math and science is a big reason why IMO. Ive just noticed a common theme among those who cant do math nor implicate said math with science tend to be the ones who cant critically think and are the people being described.
post-industrial society problems
@@Frae-_- I agree with the sentiment but I think it's important to be clear about cause and effect here. Because you could go two ways with this: 1. Is being bad at math what causes people to be bad at critical thinking? In which case we might think we should teach people to be better at math. Or is it 2. Is being bad at critical thinking what makes people bad at math? Cause in that case, you might think to focus on teaching critical thinking as a separate, more fundamental skill that would then go on to affect other fields like math and science.
Hope that made sense. I think it's important to not prematurely jump to conclusions on the cause of a complex and wide-ranging issue, and make sure to double check our reasoning on why we think a particular explanation is correct or not. That's my 2 cents, at least.
I agree completely. It infuriates me how shallow many peoples thinking is. They reach one conclusion/solution/idea and then won't or can't critically assess the shortcomings of that opinion or consider alternative ideas/viewpoints
This has always been the case. People do not want nuanced, complicated and indecisive explanations, they want simple and understandable solutions.
I dislike innuendo studios for the audience he cultivates, but he has astute observations. People don't want answers that are correct. They want answers that are short, quippy and WRONG.
Edit:just corrected a typo and changed witty to quippy, since that's the correct quote as I remember it.
@@chukyuniqul wait, is there anything wrong with his audience?
@@skyetharsis7136 I feel like his audience is pretty self-righteous and extremist. I can't say it's a fact but they sure as hell read like that to me, hence why I don't like 'em.
I feel like he's saying that it _has not_ always been this way.
It's why we see a lot of experts in relevant fields being overlooked, while loud brash personalities drive the discourse regardless of their (lack of) knowledge
No matter how smart you are, if you have to start your answer with a preamble or burn time getting everyone on the same page, you will always lose any debate to someone who can be faster to the punch regardless of how off-base their takes may be
This was a great collaboration. I know pirate is a coder and whatnot but he is a very smart guy who goes beyond the point of just being good at a certain thing. He’s also a very good explainer and gives insights on how things actually work behind the curtain of social media and streaming and industries etc… his content is actually meaningful and awesome.
Pirate is also an offensive security specialist if I'm remembering the title correctly. As such, he's well studied in social engineering as that's a massive weak point in security. So it doesn't really surprise me that he's well read and understands psychology to a nuanced degree that he could have a deeper discussion with a psychologist or psychiatrist than most people.
Can someone tell me when does this discussion occurs on the full video?
I've had a friend like that; they were insufferable to talk to. Even if they said something I'd agree with, the way they'd express it made me wanna disagree with such extreme statement.
Zero nuance, just "this is bad, this is good" with platitudes and vague statements as supposed arguments.
But if they depict themselves as the chad with a perfect jaw line that means they're right, and they don't have to expand their argument
@@3van660 Tbf if someone unironically says 'Im taking a nuanced stance', that person deserves to get meme'd on. For all the obnoxious kinds of pseudo-intellectuals online, nothing beats the selfproclaimed nuanced moderate with no reflection, nothing to add and no motivation besides trying to look smart with the least amount of effort. And holy fuck are those a plague on us atm.
@@JarmamStuff Yeah self-proclaimed nuanced intellectuals who don't actually commit to any opinion are also failures of critical thinking, so they're in the same camp as the extremists for sure. Like the people who answer "it depends..." with no further elaboration.
I knew a guy like this but he would always start off by saying how he just gives it like it is and if people get offended it’s their fault. He mentioned it in every conversation or at least it felt like it.
I housed someone like this, they were awful. They'd give such stupid and extreme statements like "people who watch anime dub should off themselves because they aren't respecting the art form".
They also just never did anything ever, so that's the main reason they don't live in my house anymore.
Great perspective from the Pirate fellow.
I also feel a nuanced approach seems discouraged everywhere I look.
If you dare point out there are some problems with both sides of an argument then both sides dismiss you.
Also, in school when writing a paper, I was always told to pick a side. I was never told to write detailing the intricacies of a situation and how both sides might have merit and both sides have flaws.
I don't think this is healthy.
That point about writing papers in school is completely true, and I never even thought about that until now. That's very interesting
Perhaps I am a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, but I personality think sides were perpetuated by the government party. How else would their two side voting system work if the majority of people were able to sit in the middle. If we were able to pull good things from either side. The parties have just gotten more extreme on both sides. It's to the point where I feel neither side has good points anymore, but we're so busy fighting each other that we can't see it.
Very few things are as nuanced as people make them out to be though
With technology it's very difficult to Practice perception. Real interactions, and consistently is key. It's like texting and assuming emotion within the text. 9 times out of 10 the assumption is false, leading to false emotion and perceptions on both ends of the conversation. It's a very scary prospect!
Two people capable of craming ass loads of valuable information in 15 seconds in one place is astounding. We need you two specifically to come together and better the world.
Bruh these are just two guys having a conversation. If you think this is enlightening you probably just need to read more books or hang out with people who went to school.
@@rw5622you know you really picked a great character as your profile pick to match your personality. The fake intellectual who sees themselves as incredibly smart, yet misses the many ways they are not.
@@rw5622 This comes off as arrogant and frankly classist
That's true, and part of it is due to the nature of the internet itself, as a communication medium. Many aspects of standard communication, like tone of voice and context etc, get stripped away in text-based platforms and comment sections. Also you may not even know or have any strong sense of community with the person/group of people you interact with and form judgments about. All of that is a recipe for exacerbating the worst parts of our egos. So it makes sense that even perceptions would be negatively conditioned too in such an environment. We're already being pigeonholed in so many other ways.
I disagree somewhat actually. Discourse historically could be vitriolic on the internet, but there was still a discussion being had. A lot of these companies (TH-cam, Netflix, Meta) started pushing a like or dislike system which removes any kinds of middle ground as groups start getting more and more separated into these echo chambers. Reddit is a prime example as it leans left, and X leans right, but both have terrible discourse in general.
@@brendongregis2424 Oh interesting! I actually agree with your disagreement lol Now I have to ask tongue-in-cheek, do you really disagree with me, or is this another example of what the video was talking about, ironically? 😆 Yes definitely, the addition of the like button added another dimension of perceiving then valuing bits of information in relation to each other, creating a binary and a hierarchy, for better and worse. And while binary, mechanistic communication incentivizes polarity and the death of nuance, the pendulum swings the other way in response as some will inevitably go against the grain with more reasoned responses. Such is the cosmic balance of cyberspace.
Has the addition of the like button utterly degraded discourse online? Yes and no, imo. There's a valid case to be made either way, and how you feel really boils down to what your perspective is, which is informed by what? Your perception 🤣
In my experience, the heated flame wars of yesteryear never really died out. They just burn on across social media instead of just forums.
Interesting conversation
@@lowtech42 in my opinion the depth of nuance is only lost in those who have no idea how to write their thoughts, which is not an easy thing to do moment to moment, maybe you're sad, angry, drunk, high, etc. at that moment and it's lost, maybe you don't have the vocabulary for it, especially if it's a second language like it is for me. so i think it goes way deeper, because i see some comments that articulate thoughts very well and you can infer the tone of what they are saying sometimes, but a lot more times i have to sit and decipher what they actually meant or the thought behind it.
just my two cents.
Finally someone pointed this out! It drives me nuts how ppl are now so quick to take some extreme assumptions or ideas, project them onto whatever or whomever as though they're absolute fact. Then they respond to that instead of what is happening in reality. Like an extreme form of "listening to respond, not to understand." It's even more wild to see it happening over text/ forums... I don't know how many times I've had to point out "that doesn't apply to what was said. Reread it, take the info as it's presented without adding extras & extremes that aren't there."
yeah, the sort of internet flame war where the point was missed and taken and flipped to another point but the conversation goes from there instead of any correction going on, and then it turns into a name calling match. Very unfortunate
@@nicky592 were cooked
Yes😂
what doesnt help is that every social media has their own upvote/downvote system that rewards such extreme perceptions and punishes/rewards less those who try to be a little more flexible
sure it may be just mere "internet points" but it has engineered our brains to immediately agree more towards the ones who has the most likes/upvotes than even take a minute to understand the downvoted one's opinion. often times seeing those negative numbers on them makes us feel that we should antagonize them
I agree, I've seen decent neutral takes, downvoted; and plain bad takes, heavily upvoted. But it gives the impression that one is right/wrong.
I think in a similar vein, even without social voting per comment, when there's a poll and you pick an answer and it's the majority vote, that can sometimes be accompanied by a sense of "i got it right" even tho its purely opinion.
Such a good point. People often don’t even read comments unless they have a certain amount of likes/upvotes. I’m also utterly shocked at how some of my ridiculously simple, not thought out comments get so many likes.
I don't think people really choose arguments based on social media validation... Do they?
@@rw5622they absolutely do and its extremely evident especially in america.
@@rw5622 unfortunate but it does seem to be the case sometimes
I love how he let Dr. K finish his sentence.
Sir they are just having a conversation
Literally what came to mind, I wanted to at least hear what Dr K's perspective was.
This is Dr. K's channel, he edited and uploaded the video. was there any thing that should have been added he would have done that while editing
Can someone tell me when does this discussion occurs on the full video?
I loved this whole interaction with these 2. Dr. K doesnt just go with Thor when he agrees with him, he asks for an example and Thor shows his interest and knowledge on the topic in return. Keep up the great work you two!!
The problem is the internet HATES when you are a fence sitter/have a neutral view on things
I agree with this point to some extent, and it's perfectly fine to have a neutral opinion on a whole lot of things. But there are certain moments and topics where being neutral can also hurt people. Take minority groups and talks around and about them as an example. If you are neutral to someone who is actively prejudiced in a conversation, they can easily see it as a sign telling them that they're right, or at least not wrong. This can go on to "justify" harassment to them later on, resulting in them going out there and doing malicious things to people who don't deserve it(no-one deserves it). People can do awful things if they believe it's the right thing to do.
Some things you can’t really have a fence sitting.
I don’t see how you can be on the fence when it comes to terrorism or Nazis as an example, a position too many people hold.
It's kind of annoying honestly, internet culture as a whole has turned into something that is mostly driven by the banner of agenda because it gets more people to agree with you that way, pushing a point is basically the only way to "win" or whatever,
Now, I purpose social media should in fact, bring back cyber bullying so that these people start to actually watch what they're saying.
Being a fence sitter is objectively not a good thing because it means that you refuse to engage with a topic to actually form any opinion. I genuinely don't think you can be a fence sitter without actively trying to avoid engaging with a topic on a meaningful level. And if you're in a position where you become a fence sitter you are actively dismissing the concept of engaging with topics others have brought to you, which just isn't polite.
Just so we're all clear, in my opinion neutrality does not equate to fence sitting and having an opinion does not equate to not being fluid
The two best mentors on TH-cam in the same short!
For real.
I couldn’t believe my eyes. The matchup we didn’t know we needed but DEFINITELY needed. These two actually give me hope for humanity
FAX. I also follow them both. These great minds think alike.
I agree, but I gotta mention Jocko Willink for those that don’t know. He teaches leadership and self ownership. It’s easily the most influential man for building yourself into a better person. His background is an Navy Seal Officer.
I get very frustrated when interacting with people on social media, specially around politics. Everyone is wearing their own particular set of horse blinders.
It's incredible how much they're willing to outright deny or just make like never said anything about it.
Even if you try and get them to see their mistake, or sometimes not even that, maybe you're just trying to convey some sort of perspective by telling your side of the story, how you feel about it, etc.
It's very hard because they can't let go of their preconceived notions.
A ton of these preconceived notions are not even theirs to start.
They talk with small political figures or militants who hand these opinions down for them, to the point where you ask them to elaborate and they simply can't. Some try to, on the spot, which makes them look like big dinguses.
Some try to recall where they heard their opinion from and can't, thus calling you names and rejecting your open proposal for them to elaborate.
I just think the best we can do to combat it is not shun them out of existence, even though we may want to.
The real way of combating it is by being patient. Don't let idiots get under your skin and respectfully explain to them their shortcomings without denying your own. Some poeple will open up when they see the guy behind the computer screen is as fallible as they are-
It sucks
The issue is that PirateSoftware did this exact thing with HD2 recently. He hyperfocused on one aspect of the industry from his own past/experience and despite constant feedback would not let go. I think growth is very important to become one's best self, and it was a real shame to see PirateSoftware die on such a weird hill.
Great observation, would love to have heard K's take on this too
Like William huxley once said
If the Doors of perception are cleansed , everything will reveal itself to mankind as it is , Infinite
So true I’ll literally be taking the same side as ppl with a slightly different take and they always think I’m disagreeing with them because I’m pushing back on them at all
Y'all really cooked with this one
Dr. Thor giving a correct diagnosis!
Nuance has always been in preciously rare supply. But the myopism HAS grown worse in many ways. But I believe it's eclipsed by an even greater problem. Critical self blindness. In times past we had heuristic feedback from live interaction with others. We could tell when we'd gone to far. We could feel people pulling away from us, recoiling. Often we'd modify our behavior based on this feedback.
Now people don't go out anymore. Mingle anymore. Most of the social relationships they have are strictly work related or parasocial online. We lack that animal feedback, which has enabled many of us to become critically self blind. We only see what someone else does. Not ourselves. I also suspect our modern life of constantly available distractions screens us from moments of forced quiet introspection. No more long boring car rides with nothing to do but stare out the window watching the miles slide slowly by & think, as one example. So we're never have moments of imposed introspection. Never have to face ourselves. But we're drowning in a sea of what everyone else is doing. So we're always hyperaware of what others are doing what we think is wrong, but never in a space to realize where we ourselves have gone astray.
It all witches brews into one giant pot of fucked, where everyone participates in an endless procession of downstream criticism & blame.
Yeah, it is in the interest of big corporations to design addictive products (social media, games, etc) to take up more of our time and distract us, and this is what is leads to
Worst part is that the people who need to hear this the most will see this and just go “Yeah, those people suck”
I think this absolutely goes hand in hand with the general drop in Media Literacy online, as well. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people deride a show, movie, book, game, whatever, because they think the main character having flaws or making mistakes is endorsement of that kind of behavior. It blows my mind.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult.
To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those ho never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
C.S. Lewis
Nah it def is malicious, twitter has created a culture where purposefully saying controversial things that make people angry is how you get attention
I would say it’s malicious as well; literally everything is more nuanced than what you are able to perceive.
This podcast surprised me in more ways than one. Hes an incredibly introspective individual and you gave him the necessary space to reflect on his overall opinions. I came out taking a few lessons from this
This is so true. As someone who values new information it’s frustrating when talking to people who can’t change their opinions when new evidence is introduced.
These two help me a lot in life when I have no one to turn to. Thanks I appreciate it 🙏🏽
I wish it was as easy to move back and see a bigger picture as it is to hyper focus on something
And I feel one of the main reasons for that is the algorithms. Click on one thing, and that's all the content you're gonna see for a while, pushing you further towards whatever opinion you were interested in in the first place.
As someone who comments a lot on social media. This is very true. People are so much in their own personal little worlds and many of them genuinely DO NOT want to see anything from your perspective.
Good points and superb crossover of content creators
Never mistake ignorance for malice...until it becomes willful ignorance.
Great way of articulating it. Reminds me of old days of trolling except not always to get a reaction - but that same level of disregard for their feelings.
Like back in vanilla wow days, my brother and i were in a guild. One day my brother was trolling and pissed a lot of people off and it caused a lot of drama and was embarrassing for me in the guild.
Brother didnt see how his trolling was frustrating to everyone else, he was hyper focused on the wrong that was done to him, so everything else was justified.
Ive seen the same template in a number of ways. You articulated it in a meta-level kinda way that was cool. Funny it even reminded me of this example from almost 20 years ago
Had this same conversation a while back with my friend about how most arguments that occur in our friend group are things that blow over pretty quickly but in the heat of the moment peoples opinions are so strongly swayed towards one direction or another that talking about it does nothing because everyone is willing to die on the hill they are standing on. I said thats part of why im almost never in the arguments, its too black and white to come to a conclusion. I need the full colored picture to even start to make an opinion but it seems like people like you said dont have wide enough lenses to see the full picture to begin with, let alone in color. Funny enough he took that as not having any sort of opinion ever and just being silent which isn’t what i meant either but the fact that he took it that way made what i was saying feel even more true.
This guy knows how to collaborate, I love the variety of this channel
True and how much it has effected older generations, like my dad, aunts, and uncles have only gotten worse that i cant have meaningful conversations with them any more. I feel like it has always been a problem but social media has evolved it further, since they can reach further and argue with stuff they dont see. Plus reactionary content is so big now, and pays well, everyone does it
People think without realising is that if you are on one side. The other side has no benefit, or your side has no downside
These two are MAGIC together! 🤯
This is something I’ve noticed recently too and it’s taken a lot of the anger towards people away and let me except how people are. Something I’ve been calling it is a “knowledge gap.” You do X bad thing simply because you do not know what’s wrong with doing it. It happens a lot in relationships aswell and it’s why communication is so important. Communication closes the knowledge gap between two people allowing them to not do the wrong things because now they better.
Best collaboration I didn't know I needed.
This is a theory but we know that the human mind struggles with anything on a very large or very small scale. I feel that this is a passive idea to most. Some people find it easier to operate on polarities. Whenever we search and search for information we go down a never ending rabbit hole and it’s much easier to stop and base our opinions where our energy is depleted, in the pursuit of information. The scale of that rabbit hole of information goes beyond our brains capabilities of scale. The brain is a muscle the more you challenge it the more growth. It is kind of like working out you need some hard workouts but some days are easy and some days we rest. I feel it helps us condition our brains to think on a larger or smaller scale than those who do not train their brain. In time we get better at looking at the information from simulated perceptions other than ours.
Wow..its funny hearing someone else say whats been in my head for the past couple years. I would call it lack of awareness but the way they descrube it is spot on
You hit the nail on the head!
This this this… its made not just the internet toxic, but existing in general. I had a stoke in December (im only 37), and all my doctors tried to say it’s because Im trans. I havent been on HRT in years, they showed no curiosity because hating trans people is “in”. For the record, if they had any curiosity about why this happened to a 37 year old, they’d have found out about me having covid two months before that incident, and untreated diabetes/sleep apnea.
I love how everyone in the comments think that they are an exception to this 🤣🤣🤣.
I am myself not fully there yet but I am trying
I find it frustrating to know this applies to me but I don't really know how to change it. I try to learn how but nothing seems to work. I often get very heated and upset at social media in general.
You just dropped a piece into a puzzle ive been struggling to complete for a decade and a half...
I love these 2 together talking
Nuance leads to over saturation and kills any discussion or field that it exists in. Most times. It’s much better to see things exactly how they are, and be hyper fixated and emotional. Anything else leads to stagnation and nothing being done.
i thought i was wrong for this thank you thor
This is why Naruto is one of my favorite shows because its main theme is about seeking understand when others take the only cop out idea of "hardwork".
The lesson of Naruto went over so many people's heads
This is so true. And its so sad
Or the ones that act that way is much more noticeable, than ones that don’t .
Peoples unwillingness to change from information they dont agree with is their greatest flaw and possibly my greatest strength. If you CAN prove me wrong, I WILL change my mind
I do agree, although to say "everyone" is an overstatement. Fortunately, there are sensical people out there still.
Yea ive noticed this IRL as well, i always try to play devils advocate in discussions to keep a more objective view on topics but i just get stared at like ive grown a 2nd head because people mistake that as my beliefs. When in all actuality im trying to bring people put of their binocular vision
They’re like the two cool dads just chatting during the softball game🤣
Also a lack of healthy scepticism. Questioning the intent behind the things you hear and see. People don't do that enough (anymore).
Honestly this has always been true about people in general its just gotten so much more visible and prevalent since people are way too comfortable having arguments when theyre behind a screen despite having no relevant talking points. Ive chimed in just out of boredom and nowadays i get told im baiting or missing the point far more than i actually get honest discussion just because i have a nuanced take on something. But as said in the short, people are so overly hyperfixated on this one specific issue that they cant see anything else as having any sort of effect on the topic of discussion. Makes me resent gaming especially because people are so comfortable being wrong that theyll ruin your experience by actively griefing or being toxic infinitely more often than they used to. Totally insufferable, been thinking of dropping gaming and surrounding communities for a while because of this. Only thing stopping me is that i know people are more often like this in other spaces too because much of life uses the internet, even if the hobby doesnt do so directly
Wow that was really insightful
yeah, it's funny when discussing a topic with people, they like to call out "you just contradicted yourself". Like of course I did, I was trying to show which pro and cons I see for the topic and highlight that there isn't a clear cut answer and lots of nuances that go into my final opinion...
Even when someone HAS a nuanced opinion, it BECOMES extreme when converted into short-form content that people would actually pay attention to.
I was extremely surprised on the Internet seeing how people are not only seeing things from one hyperfocused viewpoint, but also how difficult it was to get them to look at the rest. I am on the spectrum and got so confused when like 4 or 5 other people were more hyperfocused than I was, as I was told it comes with my disorder. But, when I see 4 or 5 people in a discussion involving 12 people be worse than me, I just wondered what kind of statiscal anomaly this group was.
God this is so fucking real man. I think a large part of why people on the internet these days behave in this close minded way. Is because of one of the most enticing things of people's internet selves... The fact that people are largely anonymous online. Which creates this abitlity for people to just have extremely off base opinions in a much louder way then they could in real life. Which is a huge distinction here. Most of these people who act this way do not act in that way in real life for a reason, and that's because deep down they know their opinions are overall objectively the extreme minority. A lot of the time it isn't even a case of people not having the ability to percieve that being super closed minded is bad when having "discussions" (arguments...) online. The problem is that they know TOO well that they're being super closed minded in a really reductive way. Because that's actually the goal for them, the creation of esoteric "conflict", for attention.
Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone. Of course some people are just blatantly ignorant because they actually are that ignorant. But unfortunately a large majority of people who do act that way just do it because they can. Not really because they actually believe any of the shit they spew out online. So much of social media drama from people that act this way. Is reactionary content for clout or for some sense of control over their own lives, or the lives of other people around them. For one reason, or another some times that reason is mental illness, other times the reason is to feel like they're a part of "something" bigger.
But I think pretty much most of it comes down to people feeling extremely lonely these days. Which is weird to think about because for as much as the internet has brought us together. It actually has driven people apart just as much in other ways. In this case people feeling like the shit they say and do has borderline no consequences.
You forget that everything internet is designed to trigger cows mooing.
It's not just a matter of fixation, it's that these positions have turned into "Sacred Beliefs" that are a part of their core make-or-break morality and self identity.
Thor nailed it.
People have no perspective in countless regards. It’s got a lot to do with a lack of a proper education IMO. Or a lack of the will or desire to learn.
A big thing is most social media platforms suck you into echo chambers. And the more you interact within the echo chambers the more the algorithm sends you back to it. And the effects of being bombarded with increasingly extreme messages daily about how awful the world is can really take a toll on an individual’s psyche.
The way I see it, it makes people struggle to follow the flow of conversation. They answer points that haven't been made while they ignore arguments, they cannot think their thoughts through to the end, it's like they aren't paying attention.
I don't think it's a new phenomenon though. People have been like that or worse since forever.
I've given up on nuance because I've been taken advantage of by it too often. People I'm talking to who, in bad faith, pull on every single thread of nuance I'm willing to entertain apparently interested only in derailing the conversation, talking in circles about something unrelated, or eventually trying to make the point that my position is too progressive because the problem is too complex for any given part of it to be effectively discussed yet. So I don't bother anymore. You either engage with the topic on the level it's being discussed, or I'm going to assume you need the vagueness of the nuance to make an unrelated point involving nuance, not to make a point about the actual topic. Plus, some things just have no nuance, and I'm done taking the high ground trying to tolerate intolerance. If there is any group, status, behavior, whatever, that you believe disqualifies or justifiably invalidates someone's rights, we have nothing to talk about.
This is something very small but i really like how Dr. K follows up with a "how so" when Thor notes that he agrees with the current talking point. Then Thor is able to actually provide his stance on the matter rather than just parroting anything Dr. K would say.
We love fostering healthy dialog
After high school, 37 now, I have been asking myself "I know I'm not that smart, they cant be that dumb, right?" Im baffled when people cant see through BS sometimes
Dr K jotting down….”kid get’s it”
This is very true and I think it bleeds into teacher's complaints that they now have students who struggle to put together and comprehend sentences and paragraphs. You need to perceive the whole of the writing, not just the words. If you hyper fixate on a few words, you miss the richness, depth and nuance of what is actually being communicated.
It's not "become". It's always been there and it's just being spotlighted now.
It absolutely has become worse over time and personally i feel america is a prime example of this as their politics have very obviously deteriorated into two sides trying to strip as many rights as possible from their people and there hasnt been some huge pushback over it just the two polarized sides clashing. Mind you this is not the only example of this its just the most widespread example i could think of that generally people would be able to look at and immediately notice it.
This really made me sad about the pandemic.
I wanted to talk to my mother about this and have a nuanced discussion.
But eventually I had to realize, the media environment we live in doesn't even give me the opportunity to.
So, I accepted it as the way things are right now. I can't control this.
It's hard to let go sometimes though, because you would like for people to see a broader picture. So we can work on getting the full picture together.
As a programmer, being fixated on one thing is one of the things I fear the most. Sometimes taking a step back and thinking if there is a better way is very necessary.
These two in a short = emotional maturity speedrun any%
Extreme problems require extreme solutions.
Fence sitters like these dorks us what got us into this mess
There's a word for it, Phantasm
People stuck in their own altered version of reality and are unwilling to listen to anyone or anything that might change that worldview in any way
This is a double edged sword. A person also has greater access than ever before to contrary ways of thinking. The overwhelming need to be right and to feel certainty is not a new thing in the slightest. Bertrand Russel was born in the 19th century and said:
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision."
He's absolutely right. People get hyperfixated on one thing and fall into the echo chamber
Social Media makes it easy for people to confuse their opinions or ideas as being the same as the most fundamental part of their notions of self. So they see criticism of their opinions or ideas as being directed towards the goal of causing “harm” to them. This is how we’ve arrived at the “words are violence” conclusion among some crowds.
This behavior is emblematic of underdevelopment in areas of reading and speech comprehension, as well as a lack of introspection. The good news is those are all learned skills, and once you’ve noticed them in yourself, you can begin to improve them.
The alternative is a life of constant fear and rage, in which you allow yourself to be controlled by your emotional responses - which makes you easy to manipulate.
The biggest manifestation i see on this is when someone they like (creator, influencer, whatever) DOES look at a bigger picture, or realizes after thinking on it deeper or such, and changes their opinion. Theyre suddent a villian hypocrite
Yea im literally expiercing this right now. Some ppl are just insane
I was talking about something similar with a friend the other day. Specifically we were talking about how trolling has evolved over the years. One of the biggest pet peeves of mine is how trolls have transformed into rage bait creators.
Sometimes it's something as simple as the person talking about something mundane then they casually do something weird like eat a piece of food wrong or something. Then you have thousands of people stitching that video talking about the thing they did wrong which boosts the popularity of the original video giving the OC their fifteen seconds of fame.
Do people not realize they're being played? Do they know and not care? Is this some sort of internet dance that I'm just not aware of?
Our (world) economy and society is going through a recession borderline depression and we are mostly worried about “jerks”.
It's why I take everything on the internet with a grain of salt