THANK YOU SO MUCH for bringing up the fact that when someone is cancelled, they should be held accountable for their actual actions instead of bullied for completely irrelevant things like art skill. You made a TON of really good points in this video but that one was one that I haven't seen anyone talk about before, despite it being so common.
Ugh, same! I hate to see kids getting cancelled over normal kid mistakes. They lose everything they have and pretty much cant show their face again. But then you'll see an adult that's a pedo or SAer that's 'cancelled', but they still have sponsors and hundreds of thousands of subscribers still. I'm sorry, but that's not being cancelled. It's like the small creators and children are the only ones facing real consequences most of the time.
@@kiraeckard7625 Very True, people cancel a small Creator over a mistake and then can NEVER show their face again, and then you see someone you was “Cancelled” but then you see they have a lot of Subscribers or followers, etc. Is just really toxic!
The point you made about people bashing on someone's art during their cancellation reminded me that the same thing happens in the cosplay community on tiktok: someone will get canceled, and people start saying "I never liked their cosplays anyway", "their makeup was ugly" etc. It mostly just ends up making others scared that people are just waiting to turn on them, too.
I experience this as well in the cosplay communitie and I'm not even on Tiktok. On of the reasons why it demotivates me to work on a costume when I have the time left, because this happened to me once or twice.
@savanna guzeler Good theory! I'll raise you another one that's probably at work at the same time. It could also be an act of trying to sever ties to that creator as quickly as possible. The "I never liked you anyway" because some people find it hard to admit they ever had a positive connection to the "guilty" party and might be feeling disappointed by the cancelation. Could also be part of the "I always need to be right" mentality that is pretty prevalent on the internet
Yeah I've noticed it in a lot of communities. An actor gets backlash? "Their acting was terrible anyways". A writer? "Their stories were always awful". Just any public figure in general? "I never liked them to begin with". Yet those types of people never expressed that when they were popular. It's like they were either waiting for that person to mess up so they could say their unpopular opinion or they want to look like they're ahead of the crowd in bashing them. I also think it pushes a really bad idea that people who make good art can't be bad people, which is untrue and kind of a dangerous idea. It's like the new "Pretty people are always good".
I don't think just because they're mad but the Art commentary channels are so hypocritical they choose the side that is more popular without a lot of proof so they're are very quick to jump into the trend.
i’m so glad you mentioned my BIGGEST pet peeve: when people start to make fun of a cancelled creator’s art. it’s just so petty and also kind of backhanded. like were these people always feeling this way and just waiting for them to be cancelled?
Oh hey another Zeppeli jojo pfp, but yes I can confirm this. (unless if it was a rhetorical question, my bad oops.) I was in a discord server with other drama kids, while it wasn’t specifically about art, it was still pretty similar. They would shittalk others in private, but act like “take care of urself 💞💖💖💖💕❣️💗💓” in public. Because as soon as they realize someone caught them, they’ll just act like the cancel culture people (does that make sense). In one channel, they’ll act like “we’re gonna solve this ASAP, we hope ur friend is doing ok 💖💖”, but in staff channel they would act “IM GONNA SNAP, FUCK THEM” and just being one sided. as soon as I told them that was my friend, they immediately attacked me. This happened to several others, but they fortunately didn’t suffer the same treatment, since they weren’t staff members. It does still kind of hurt, but I can laugh it off.
Facts. I feel like sometimes it just comes from a place of jealousy and these people were waiting/hoping for creators they didn't like to get "cancelled" just so they can feel self-righteous in their dislike (ex. "See? I _told_ you their art was shit! 😍" If you're gonna criticize someone, maybe criticized the actually shitty things they did. You don't gotta bring down their works, appearances and everything else that has *nothing* to do with it.
I think loud minorities are part of moust communities, the communities and fandoms I'm in have really loud and toxic minorities that just ruin the reputation of the community. And it makes me really upset to see the good people in the community being compared to the toxic people.
Yeah, this happens in alot of communities. While not apart of some ive seen this extends to kpop, mcyt, art. Bad reputation overshadows communities because they are larger thus while more positive fans, also causes a lot of toxic fans who usually get the attention.
@@ducc0287 And also, those bad reputations can ruin the thing itself, what I mean is, the thing the community is about (like art, cartoons, movies, ect.) can be associated to the people that get the most attention, like, Gacha Life it's known for cringe kids doing gore and NSFW content, meanwhile the talented people in the community gets in the shadow of the toxic kids (that's the best example I could think of, sorry for that). Gacha Life is actually a really interesting and intuitive app (I hate the Gacha community, just so you know) but the reputation of the community ruins the app itself, making people avoid downloading it afraid to be seen as a cringe Gacha kid.
A lot of the communities I've been apart of have been deemed the most toxic fandom, but what people need to realize is that most of the time the toxic people are the most vocal. It gets really annoying, but what can you do.
I absolutely agree. Sometimes it feels like everyone is just lying in wait for someone to mess up just to jump on someone to make a bunch of views. I love the diversity that creators add to their channels like the art mysteries series. Heck, even LavenderTowne’s ‘Turning things into cute girls’ is something so light hearted and fun to see. We watch art CC youtubers for their opinions and passions! Calling out people is very important of course, but we never see the actual youtuber behind all of the drama. This community can be so diverse and beautiful with time and improvement.
I like how she has a variety of different content rather than just art commentary. And when she does talk about drama it's not to attack another person, it doesn't call out anyone, it discusses the issues and provides a resolution.
In a way, I want to be part of the community but I'm scared of the possible backlash I may get due to something little. Especially since English isn't my main language and I might be wording things wrong. People pick on the smallest things ever and the audience is just as much at fault for consuming the drama-fueled videos as the creators for making it. It's difficult but I believe if we work hard enough we might make this community less toxic.
Kinda related to the first point but I rarely see any Latino creators in the acc. It's just something I noticed as a Mexican myself. Maybe we just stay away from commentary, but who knows.
Here’s a take. This community is kinda weird when it comes to art that depicts certain subjects like ab*se or sh .Just because art depicts those things doesn’t mean that it’s romanizing or glorifying it and acting like it always does can cause more harm than good . Also, I think that allegations could be handled a lot better because, instead of waiting for more information, it becomes a race to see who can cover it the fastest which causes false information to spread. K, I’m done thanks for reading
yeah this community kinda hates ppl who make vent art, I understand if it's like pr0wrn of those kinda things but normally it's people just making normal vent art who get cancelled, sometimes it's not even explicit ;-;
Yeah I agree. People just love to hate and jump to conclusions so fast. Like back when Dreamalgia was the topic, their haters just assumed that their cuts and bruises were being “romanticized” and shit like that. Like it’s just their way of coping. Of trying to see something that they thought was ugly into something beautiful. But nope. Someone just had to think it was a dirty thing :0
Exactly art has different interpretations it’s ironic the art community doesn’t seem to understand that they look at one thing and jump to a conclusion without making a simple analysis to try understanding an artists head space they did this with the whole dolliieguts drama
Yeah, always circling back to Dreamalgia, because some people wanted to be so self-righteous they felt like they could dictate who draws what, what constitutes as trauma art, and go so far as to call other horrible names regarding it.
Thank you! There's definitely a lot of antis in the community. Not to mention how ppl accuse these artists of being something terrible just bcuz of what they draw/like in fiction, even going as far as to calling their art "CP" or "romanticizing" abuse.
I wish more of the art commentary channels just did their research. Most of the Tobi & hopeless peaches drama would not be as bad if they looked at the screen shots. Then again most just want to fuel a fire instead of putting themselves into the others shoes. Google is free!
Well I can kind of disagree with the screen shots because you can easily fake one and I feel the same way with the creep show drama because she didn't give any proof for the hopeless peaches and I was so stupid for believing.
@@sumrandomonline yeah but people wouldn't even read the bewares on people, they would just take fake evidence, etc. I feel like they should have googled further, and look at some of the DM instead of just coming to TH-cam and just saying the same thing everyone else is saying.
@@wlfgrl7764 That's the thing with the art community nobody goes and checks because if it's their favorite art community like Creep Show everybody's gonna believe them because of their popularity.
I love your art. The way you draw hair is so pretty. I think for this piece, the roses should be red to stand out more from the hair. It kinda blends in a bit but that might be what you were going for.
What i really really love about your channel is that youre always open up for unpopular opinions as long as the person sharing them is respectful and tbh yea the community sucks but maybe eventually we can fix some of the issues in it
My problem with the community is how easily they jump on hate bandwagons despite the lack of evidence. The community jumped to hate on spoctor back during the stories and pentagrin thing. The community jumped on the hopeless peaches bandwagon and many more
I think saying the Art CC is as toxic as the beauty community is really pushing it. The beauty community is so toxic to the point that their drama singlehandedly got TH-cam, a mostly hands-off company, involved in their mess. And over some damn hair gummies 😑 they deserve an award for how toxic they are and I don't think we could ever really compare to that.
I think its true that the art commentary community focuses a little more on problematic creators than some of the art being made but I don't think it's as bad as the beauty community just yet? Idk I just feel like the art commentary community isn't big enough yet to be the same amount or more toxic than that, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been in the past because it sure has!
When ever someone starts drama and ''calls out'' another person people are always quick to say I knew it and make videos criticising the new ''bad guy''
13:13 This is practically what happened in the Tobi and Hopeless Peaches drama with Omnia. The difference is that on the Tobi drama Omnia's "mistake" was leaking DM's (which is stupid because Tobi was the one who _lied_ about everything they talked about in the first place) and the "private story" Omnia wasn't able to blur out at first, she actually did when people pointed it out yet people still hold out the "But u leaked a priVAtE sTOrY!!1!" over her head, even though Tobi was later found mentioning it on a comment on her *public* community post at the time. Omnia censored the screenshots and apologized, yet people still use the "leaked DM's" argument bs on her despite it. As for the Hopeless Peaches drama, I always see people use the thumbnail argument against Omnia all the time as if that immediately nullifies all her *legit* criticisms on Peaches. Omnia was on a break at the time and couldn't have known it, and when she _did_ she immediately apologized and changed it. Yet people still bring up the stupid thumbnail shit as a "gotcha" despite Spoctor's video having the thumbnail unchanged. 🙄 Y'all can't even claim Spoctor got permission because Peaches' twitlonger mentioning it _did_ include Spoctor in her disappointment with the thumbnail being used (despite how it seemed Peaches focused on Omnia more but whatever...) And then with Creepshow and Luke being caught lying about Peaches, all of a sudden those with legitimate bad experiences on Peaches (Camila, Kai and Omnia) are seen as "lying" as well ~doesn't help that JAR made videos roasting them because he really wants to defend his friend so hard lmao~ It's almost like there's no such thing as nuance in the community. You can acknowledge that people lied about a person while _also_ acknowledging that they also did bad things to other people....
Thank you. You said everything I've been thinking for years. I'd also like to add elitism. I've seen some artists with egos. I had an artist tell me that I shouldn't do commissions because I'm "not good enough". They said that I needed to be on their level before I even consider selling commissions. There was also an artist who started a witch hunt on people for using references. That artist said "real artists don't need references." They were later outed for using and not crediting their references. My experiences mainly come from DeviantArt, so it's a bit different but I do have quite a few stories about the horse-art community...
The art commentary community isn't nearly as bad as the beauty community. Because at least the art cc wants to try to provide facts and do research, the beauty community just wants to expose expose expose. Great video as always thumin!! Everything was really well worded and I think this video will open a lot of people's eyes to things that need to / should be changed!
I know this was 7 months ago, but I’m not surprised the beauty community is so damn toxic. When a community is so heavily based on superficial looks and values, of course people are gonna act up smh. The art community can definitely be toxic, but it’s more so people trying to improve their craft
I hate how the art commentary community feels like they need to harass people instead of just criticising them for their wrongs. It’s completely unnecessary and just a waste of their own time to harass others
Most based video in the community, you spitting straight facts, girl! Also, this "high-school-mentality" is so on point. This was always the feeling I've got the way creators form groups and gossip about each other, making an elephant out of a mouse or vice versa. Serious topics get treated as drama and the smallest things get treated like a sin against humanity. But I don't think the beauty community is better. That community treats CEOs and, well, companies like people. Every time they convince you to hate the other out of a childish misunderstanding they're playing with profits and more importantly the viewer's money. They literally live off telling you how ugly you are, but in a sneaky "I'm your friend, this is constructive criticism" way. It's not. I can promise you that neither Jefreee or Tati or any other millionare cares about you.
Question for the section about how mistakes are dangled over someone’s head. What do you think about people saying “This isn’t your apology to accept” when a creator apologizes for something. This argument usually comes up when a creator addresses their mistakes; I’m going to use racism as an example because I’m bad at explaining lmaow. If a creator apologizes for saying a slur in a video or etc, their Non-poc community seems to accept their apology quickly for their actions. Likely, most people will start saying that “Since you’re white then this isn’t your apology to accept” and will perpetually bring up the fact that the creator has said a slur when they apologized in the past. How do you feel about that? :0
I agree kinda. If you said something to a Yeah specific person or you use something like a slur. It's not you're right to accept their apology 1st the person who they specifically said to has apologized 1st and then you can accept their apology or not.
So in my opinion it all depends on if that creator has apologised correctly and not gone back to being racist or bigoted. Most of the times actions speak louder than words. It's true that white viewers shouldn't accept an apology for someone using slurs meant for black ppl because it doesn't affect them. In these cases, the creator in question has to show with their actions that they aren't anti-black. Pewdiepie is a good example of this. He said a slur but apologised and has made sure to change his actions to reflect that he is an ally rather than a bigot. I also wanna add that all black ppl aren't a monolith so while some might accept said apology, its valid if others don't. ^^
I do like watching the art commentary community and drama sometimes, it depends on the topic but I’ve noticed a lot of hypocrisy especially recently. Is everyone supposed to be perfect? No, but it creates more toxicity if you don’t practice what you preach and commentary in general is already a pretty toxic space.
The art in this video *chef's kiss *. I'm glad you brought up the point of how people will drag someone's art when they get exposed for something bad that has nothing to do with their art. I've seen this happen very recently and it's just low to do such a thing
I feel like the acc is headed down a dark path. This is making me start to dislike art on youtube. It can be restored but if we don't address these issues now, it might be to late.
I've always really wanted to share my art online and join the community but all the toxicity that I've seen within the art community is really terrifying and deterring, especially as a brown girl. So I'm honestly really grateful for you and a lot of other bipoc artists for sharing your art/experiences and putting yourselves out there.
Toxic person: literally telling a child to “not alive” themselves (you can change the scenario if you want) Some art commentary people: stop being dramatic 😉🌸✨
Unrelated Comment: Thumin's art is always so pretty. I wish I could color like that. I'm gonna have to practice for a while longer, but I hope to get there someday.
I need to hear this cause I definitely count as an art commentary channel. I’ve heard things here and there within the community and want to be sure I evolve best I can. Especially being a fellow black creator.
To me it seems that the art commentary community stems from the ranting community , one could say one evolved from the other or that that's the current name its being used under nowadays. Surely others see the overlap? It feels as though they have the exact same problems they did before: spreading misinformation and focusing on petty things rather than actually informing the audience and correcting certain actions. Half-assed apologies that often come after the damage is long done, even still make fun of others artwork as a quick haha moment just like the whole Mary Sue or bad art critiques of some artist deemed problematic for whatever reason. It feels like a cycle, just like the ranting community, you will have people doing the same things both these communities do but claim they are a part of a different , totally better community or just claim to be their own thing. I think, these recurring issues should be addressed and fixed, but the community as a whole would have to admit that they are there and hold themselves as individuals accountable for their actions rather than blame others for largely the same thing. A video is just like a game, its better to delay it and make sure all is done , than to rush it out incomplete. I despise cliques. People go stupid to defend their friends f**kery just for the sake of defending a friend. Nuff said. Also , lastly, I don't get people who run straight to video topics right after they watch a video. No one needs you to crusade or harass people. that's common sense. You don't need ti do that, nobody with sense told you to do that. Have some personal responsibility, harassing or pursuing people for your fave youtuber's sake isn't your job nor obligation. Its much more affective and impactful to support than to attack or "go for the luls." Rambling over, good video , good critisisms, won't get complaints out of me. Good day.
My own opinion on the art cc: I feel like when handling serious topics/accusations (mental health, p3d0ph1l1a etc) in the art cc and cc in general, most creators + viewers kinda make it into a black and white/basic topic yk. Serious topics/accusations like these should be something handled with care and researched on extensively so that a creator and their fanbase don’t end up spreading misinformation about the topic and even the person they are accusing. Always provide proper proof where is necessary or where they can. When talking about this, we as a community should realise that there is always a grey area about this.
to add on the misinformation part: sometimes proof given do show the bullhit being said, either from actually not proving anything, or outright showing context making it proof of innocence. the main problem is people don't go read a drive folder with "evidence", the video is supposedly doing that for them. The power balance is always in favor of the one making the video, until someone comes to debunk them. I also HATE how a lot of the ACC will play armchair psychologist. Mental health is not a thing you get to play with like that, calling someone a "sociopath" will lead to people harrassing said person by calling them that and invalidate any response given. Mental health in general is mistreated enough as it is by pop culture and society, we don't need some shitty tea-spiller diagnosing people from the comfort of their bed at 3.AM while they browse funny kitten pictures. Do. Not. Use. Mental Health. As. A. Gotcha point. This extends to the general commentary communities at large, this behaviour is problematic. Actually the only reason the ACC is so toxic is because a lot of the creators doing negative videos know those drive clicks. It's not too surprising as a result that a lot of videos are done over the pettiest shit. I actually ended up unsubbing from Creepshow art before she got revealed as horrible because she was only pushing negative content, most that I found to be down right petty EDIT: to add more positivity, really loving your art, and your layers are so much better organised than mine ;-;.
20:52 Eyy that's me! Jokes aside this video pretty much summarizes my thoughts with the problems within the art community. Hopefully future content creators will take the things you brought to light into consideration.
I completely agree with you. I like how when you talk about drama you don't call out anybody, you try to find solutions! And the points you stated out was completely unbiased and correct. (Your art is immaculate btw!)
I seriously love how unbiased and informative your videos are. As a young artist you're a very big inspiration to me and it's like you're my guidance through this kinda hellish art world. It's also really inspiring to see a black creator, speaking and talking about the problems, that plague this community One thing I hate about the Art CC, is when the small majority of creators hate and invalidate your opinions. And they try and convince their viewers that a certain opinion is wrong. But anyways, thank you so much for your videos! You inspire me so much
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible. But really this is such a good thing to talk about and I love how the community was also asked for some ideas too for greater viewpoints and also to feel involved. It's also just a great thing to cover and talk about as well as a call to do better as well. It's something I feel needs to have attention brought to it with pointing out errors and where the community has gone wrong and drawing people (pun intended) toward questioning beliefs, biases, and toward a better community. And of course, fantastic art as always.
I loved your video thumin. Though I do have a question. I know you said that people who have done racist, transphobic, or homophobic, ect. things make an apology that certain people shouldn’t accept and as a fellow black person that deals with racism I agree with you. But what if the person doesn’t hold those same discriminatory beliefs anymore. Aren’t they aloud to change and redeem themselves?
I think if the person has apologised and proved with their actions that they don't hold those beliefs anymore, then they can be redeemed. A good example is Pewdiepie, he said a slur, immediately apologised and has been doing his best to be an ally which is what i like to see personally. ^^
@@Thumin 100% agree! Actions speak louder than words, and part of redeeming yourself is recognising that people don’t have to forgive you for what you did.
Intro/sponsor 0:00 flullts of the art work cc i hope i said that right 2:55 what art cc thinks of art cc 14:57 solutions 19:57 Drama 19:57 i hope this helps you
I loved the video smm also oml so true, im half asain and even then im still nervous to actually join the art community for fear of me just going to constantly be facing mean racist comments (im sensitive enough to them as is, which like..yeah ik its bad that im like that) also love your art so much, amazing!!! fhsskfslj also ignore my pfp i have nothing else to change it to. alr weird comment is over, love you thumin!
My hot take is minors shouldn't be content creators in the art CC. You can call this gatekeeping if you want, but children are bound to make mistakes. And to have everyone you know and trust turn on you because of said mistakes can be so damaging. Children are growing, human brains are not fully developed till their are 25. And now we have 13-18 years being put into adult positions such as making sure they can protect and run their own communities and expecting them to be perfect when we all know why minors can't consent for a reason. They are not developed enough, yet we still treat their mistakes as adult. And on the flip side, I have found a majority of drama, spreading of rumors comes from minors. And I mean things like 'they are tracing' or 'this person was rude/being petty.' When teen are perpetuating a lot of this drama its self. I am pressure sure that is were the 'highschool drama' comes from. Because these minors are still navigating through that part of their life. And we all know how horrible some teenagers can be. They especially do the "well I didn't experience 'x' thing this way, so your representation of it is wrong/glorifying it." I am not saying this as 'children/teens are bad.' But they are so easy to manipulate and more so by social media. And there are absolutely adults who take part in this type of behavior as well. I am just worried about the long term psychological effects of minors were their frontal cortex isn't developed and they are all ready in a vulnerable state because of puberty and being a teenager sucks. I know this wont happen, there will always be minors who make content, but I really wish people would take this into account. On a side note, there is such an air for cancel culture of the most trivial things to the point that even though I want to make content and be part of the art CC, my PTSD couldn't handle it. And it has scared me off from wanting to join, because it would be like stepping on egg shells.
Can we agree that she is by FAR the best most underated artist? Edit: Guys she is bc James charles (a person that doesn't deserve what he has) groomed a minor and STILL has alot of subs. I think thumin deserves her subs if not more. So uh no attacks please-
I very much so miss when the art community had good ideas and good trends, like spidersona's or the surplus amount of animation memes, trends that were everywhere, fun for everyone, and anyone could join in. I pray for the day that a good art trend sweeps the internet again ❤
I ABSOLUTELY agree on cutting out the drama and the poor behavior toward each other, it’s called the ART CC for a reason. We should be focusing on art and not everyone else’s business, like drawing tips or “how I got into art” stories, tell us about your characters you draw, show us your favorite color pallets! Almost every time I find a new ACC TH-camr I enjoy, 5 months later they’re being canceled for some absurd grooming charges or manipulation, I like many came to see people draw and see art through their eyes for once. I can only think of ONE TH-camr I watch regularly who (so far) hasn’t been demonized yet, she tells stories about her characters and tells us about her artistic childhood. My fix? ACC needs to mind their own damn businesses and start talking about art for once. We aren’t here for the gossip or the drama, the emotional and racial attacks or the false allegations. If we wanted that we’d go turn on the 1:00 soaps and get your drama and gossip there, leave our beloved art alone. Honestly I love your videos and your courage to call literally everyone out, I came here to help fight against the poor behavior of those who throw their childish insults at you for no reason. Imma stick around if ya don’t mind 👀
Girl, all of us artists are wonderful people and amazing what we do. So Are you Thumin. That artwork is like Roses 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹 No matter what is happening to you, stay strong.
Love you THUMIN❤️❤️❤️ you are one of my favorite artists you’ve gotten SO GOOD I love it!! As a viewer and a Black Artist I am NOT HYPE to join the art commentary community. I watch a wide variety of artist and art related content and the commentary community is by far the most tumultuous. Y’all have no chill…at all. Despite they’re being SOOooo many creative and talented people in the space there are way too many with such closed minded and shallow views. To me art is a careful and complex form of expression, how is it that that complexity isn’t translated into the things people say and think??? Like the amount of willfully ignorant, out of pocket, holier than thou REACHING made by yt ppl (and their “I’d rather be a token” headasses defending them) taking place is deplorable. I remember watching this one vid a few months ago about that whole Tobi mess where a bunch of white people really sat up there downplaying her actions and not a lick of leniency was given to the people she affected and said “race was a can of worms that didn’t need to be opened” after they straight jumped on poc creators like WTF y’all are weird. The fact that y’all can even absolve yourselves from your race when you get caught/called out is a PRIVILEGE!!!! My Blackness is with me every where I go, I can’t leave that shit at home!!!! And as a minority even if A poc were to put our race aside these yt ppl still attach that to everything that you do in the ACC. Also there is a HUGE disparity between creators, views, and their sub counts for creating similar content is alarming. Especially since the few black and other POC creators that do exist tend to make much better curated content and have much less traction plus they get no slack whatsoever. If it doesn’t apply to you don’t respond because I don’t care 🥱My opinion is that as a community we can do better y’all viewers and creators alike, every time some crazy, unhelpful, unhealthy , toxic drama is going on we don’t have to give it so much attention, privacy is precious for growth let’s try letting people live and change for the better and bring art back into the conversation. Isn’t that what this community was supposed to be about, why are we so limiting in what people can do or say in a space that is about cultivating creativity. I’d like to see more mindful and considerate art videos anyways loved this video and can’t wait to see more from you have a great day
Unfortunately, these problems have persisted within the art community itself since before art commentary ever got off the ground, including here on youtube, it makes sense that they'd carry over. These issues are the reason why my fiancee and I left it over a decade ago and it just seems to have never improved much. I will say that it's nice to see it being talked about though. I think that it's possible for things to improve, it's just that with such deep roots it's going to take time and effort.
I don’t think the art community isn’t as bad as the beauty community,but it’s heading there at this pointಠ_ಠ Also the eyes on your drawing are just-*chef’s kiss*(≧∀≦)
My unpopular opinion about the art commentary community (or just the commentary community in general) is that some channels fall into the same pitfalls some mainstream celebrity gossip sites like TMZ fall into. I’ve seen people talk about art community drama the same way that TMZ talks about Britney Spears.
What you said about positive advice for minor artists, that can very well apply to (bare with me) the gacha community, because so many gacha heaters get so much hate from other communities (heck, even ours, the gacha community) when (bare with me again) most of them don't deserve it because they are CHILDREN mostly between 8-10 YEARS. If you start attacking them from primary school, THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO GET BEAUTIFUL. I also want more people to see this, soo i'm commenting this
One thing that’s bothered me is the whole “You can’t criticize smaller channels” mentality. Some people just have really bad takes and if the bigger channel is the one to notice and be bothered enough to respond, going “No!!! You can’t make a video on them- you’re a bigger channel” is reductive. It’s a complete shutdown of the conversation.
First off, I love the art in this video, especially the eyes. From one artist to another, you should totally experiment with different shades of blue in the line art for your greens sometime, you might find some really fun combinations that make it pop in different, interesting ways. As for the video, I really love what you have to say here. It's so refreshing to hear a take like this by now, and I appreciate you. I don't really have much to add on that at the moment besides that you totally nailed this subject. I'm glad I followed you.
I am totally shy about my artwork. However we should start support instead of getting offensive. I do agree what you say Thumin. This shouldn't stand, Art communities needs to support everyone not getting angry about it. It's just incredibly important for all of our artists to admit that we have to stop the harassment and the toxic comments needs to kind instead of having blacklash. Please own up for your mistakes and stop the petty scandal. It makes me angry that so many good artists are quitting on TH-cam and what do y'all do criticize others. Stay calm and Love your art.
If you don't like what I say, then you're getting offended sorry. I am apologetic not angry. My artwork is amateur and I'll continue to support every artist or animator who works hard. I am speaking it like it is .
By the way, This is what Thumin was exactly talking about. Don't get too offensive. Toxic or not, never try to explain to me what I said is. I am not phrasing it wrong, I am only speaking out. Thank you for listening to thumin.
I do very much enjoy your content and even been watching some others. Since my art has been evolving and how my twitch channel has been going I've been considering making art commentary videos, where I just talk about anime as I enjoy anime and I draw anime characters as anthropomorphic animals as that's what I like to draw. I kinda don't like drama as I have social anixety. I very much like this insight on the community as it helps me get prepared if something like that happens. I need to stop being scared and get out of my shell.
i am so happy there are creators like you who add non biased approaches to issues that they’re talking about. it’s a real refresher from the same ol “omg this creator is bad i hate them go hate them too grrgrr drama!!!!” stuff
THUMIN! great video (so far)you really cover topics well :) I love your art could you maybe make a video or community post on the brushes you use in ibis paint? you don't have to ofc :)) btw the use of Perfect Blue is just *chefs kiss*
Another great and high quality video :D I agree with every point made. It's really sad Thumin doesn't have more subscribers :( keep making awesome videos!
“Where a 13 year old will have 10 call out videos and be canceled” Intense Sashley drama flashbacks And yes idc what y’all think that drama was unfair and wrongly throwing hate to sashley ok-
Exactly people were comparing her to birdie even though they are both young what birdie did wasn’t even comparable not to mention the fact when it was discovered she was using derogatory language instead of explaining to the 13 why saying those things are bad they cancelled her what makes it worse is that the hate train started when she was just 11 bruh
@@KKNOWSYOU Yeah,, and it’s still constantly coming up. Like,, the fact the worst thing she did was get inspired by Typh,, and said the N slur without meaning it badly (still pretty bad but she WAS 13 BRO) People will start ww3 bc of it. It’s insane and pisses me off lol
Personally I feel like in the art cc (or genera cc) there is too much infantalization happening with mostly adult creators (usually the ones who are in their early to late 20s). And I mean too much “babying” in the sense of a creator does something wrong and everyone immediately either excusing it or downplaying the actions. I will use creepshowart as an example because oof wow people really excused her behavior. When people like Tobi rightfully criticized her in the past (ik tobi is a mess of her own but some criticisms were valid), Shannon immediately pulled the “I was homeless and sad when I made my old videos” and a lot of fans essentially babied her saying “oh Shannon it’s okay you’ve grown” or “omg please stay strong uwu” even though Shannon is an adult in her late 20s. Not saying she can’t be sad as an adult but when somebody is giving you valid criticism of how reactionary she can be, she shouldn’t have pulled the “I’m sad card” and her fans shouldn’t have enabled that and babied her. And hell even Tobi to an extent was in a way babied or excused by other commentators. Especially her drawing questionable art of Todoroki and having some flimsy excuses (ie her “I didnt know his age” and “I aged him up”) some were saying “oh it’s fine it’s not as bad as x artist who draws worse” or “she didn’t know guys give her a chance”. And then I’ve seen other commentators talk about drama involving a literal child (like this 13 year old “copied” somebody ooo so scandalous) and basically tell them they need to grow up and are way more harsh! TLDR; the art commentary community has the tendency to infantalize (mostly older adult) creators often finding excuses to justify the behavior made by said adult
Commenting so the algorithm sees this beautiful video and recommends it more
it sure did work uwu- more people need to hear this tho 🤌
Time to reply if that helps
@@HawShule the algorithm should do us some good at least 🌝✋
O
Worked
"I don't like racism but" SHSHS NO edit: the sentence "I don't like racism" should not be followed by the word "but"
Agree, there is no "buts" in "I don't like racism".
Unless you’re saying something like “I don’t like racism but stop saying minorities cant defend the civil rights movement themselves!”
@@Mari-eo3yi or I don’t like racism but some people are labeling things as racist when they are not
THANK YOU SO MUCH for bringing up the fact that when someone is cancelled, they should be held accountable for their actual actions instead of bullied for completely irrelevant things like art skill. You made a TON of really good points in this video but that one was one that I haven't seen anyone talk about before, despite it being so common.
Ugh, same! I hate to see kids getting cancelled over normal kid mistakes. They lose everything they have and pretty much cant show their face again. But then you'll see an adult that's a pedo or SAer that's 'cancelled', but they still have sponsors and hundreds of thousands of subscribers still. I'm sorry, but that's not being cancelled. It's like the small creators and children are the only ones facing real consequences most of the time.
Exactly!
@@kiraeckard7625 Very True, people cancel a small Creator over a mistake and then can NEVER show their face again, and then you see someone you was “Cancelled” but then you see they have a lot of Subscribers or followers, etc. Is just really toxic!
🎶twitteeeeeeer we looooooove youuuuuuu🎶
YES THANK YOU I love your videos btw
The point you made about people bashing on someone's art during their cancellation reminded me that the same thing happens in the cosplay community on tiktok: someone will get canceled, and people start saying "I never liked their cosplays anyway", "their makeup was ugly" etc. It mostly just ends up making others scared that people are just waiting to turn on them, too.
I experience this as well in the cosplay communitie and I'm not even on Tiktok. On of the reasons why it demotivates me to work on a costume when I have the time left, because this happened to me once or twice.
@savanna guzeler Good theory! I'll raise you another one that's probably at work at the same time. It could also be an act of trying to sever ties to that creator as quickly as possible. The "I never liked you anyway" because some people find it hard to admit they ever had a positive connection to the "guilty" party and might be feeling disappointed by the cancelation. Could also be part of the "I always need to be right" mentality that is pretty prevalent on the internet
Yeah I've noticed it in a lot of communities. An actor gets backlash? "Their acting was terrible anyways". A writer? "Their stories were always awful". Just any public figure in general? "I never liked them to begin with". Yet those types of people never expressed that when they were popular. It's like they were either waiting for that person to mess up so they could say their unpopular opinion or they want to look like they're ahead of the crowd in bashing them. I also think it pushes a really bad idea that people who make good art can't be bad people, which is untrue and kind of a dangerous idea. It's like the new "Pretty people are always good".
@@Lighterfoxx I am sorry to hear that
The people who would attack Thumin is just mad because she’s speaking her mind
I don't think just because they're mad but the Art commentary channels are so hypocritical they choose the side that is more popular without a lot of proof so they're are very quick to jump into the trend.
@@sumrandomonline Yeah too, because people can’t say what they want to say, they get silenced for it
@@arin_102 I wanted to add on other reasons they do what they do.
Iam going to say “i hate black people “ and when people get mad , i will say “you are mad because iam speaking my mind”
@@moeali2479 that’s not even close to what I meant, because after her recent videos people attacked her for it
i’m so glad you mentioned my BIGGEST pet peeve: when people start to make fun of a cancelled creator’s art. it’s just so petty and also kind of backhanded. like were these people always feeling this way and just waiting for them to be cancelled?
Oh hey another Zeppeli jojo pfp, but yes I can confirm this. (unless if it was a rhetorical question, my bad oops.) I was in a discord server with other drama kids, while it wasn’t specifically about art, it was still pretty similar. They would shittalk others in private, but act like “take care of urself 💞💖💖💖💕❣️💗💓” in public. Because as soon as they realize someone caught them, they’ll just act like the cancel culture people (does that make sense). In one channel, they’ll act like “we’re gonna solve this ASAP, we hope ur friend is doing ok 💖💖”, but in staff channel they would act “IM GONNA SNAP, FUCK THEM” and just being one sided. as soon as I told them that was my friend, they immediately attacked me. This happened to several others, but they fortunately didn’t suffer the same treatment, since they weren’t staff members. It does still kind of hurt, but I can laugh it off.
Facts. I feel like sometimes it just comes from a place of jealousy and these people were waiting/hoping for creators they didn't like to get "cancelled" just so they can feel self-righteous in their dislike (ex. "See? I _told_ you their art was shit! 😍"
If you're gonna criticize someone, maybe criticized the actually shitty things they did. You don't gotta bring down their works, appearances and everything else that has *nothing* to do with it.
I love thumin’s accent so much 💜 I love hearing her talk
I like her accent too! :)
Yes, its so pleasent to listen to
@@marcelo_27 yup
What type of accent does she have? She has a lovely accent, however I don’t know what type of accent it is.
Me too. It’s so pleasant and calming.
I think loud minorities are part of moust communities, the communities and fandoms I'm in have really loud and toxic minorities that just ruin the reputation of the community. And it makes me really upset to see the good people in the community being compared to the toxic people.
Yeah, this happens in alot of communities. While not apart of some ive seen this extends to kpop, mcyt, art. Bad reputation overshadows communities because they are larger thus while more positive fans, also causes a lot of toxic fans who usually get the attention.
@@ducc0287 And also, those bad reputations can ruin the thing itself, what I mean is, the thing the community is about (like art, cartoons, movies, ect.) can be associated to the people that get the most attention, like, Gacha Life it's known for cringe kids doing gore and NSFW content, meanwhile the talented people in the community gets in the shadow of the toxic kids (that's the best example I could think of, sorry for that). Gacha Life is actually a really interesting and intuitive app (I hate the Gacha community, just so you know) but the reputation of the community ruins the app itself, making people avoid downloading it afraid to be seen as a cringe Gacha kid.
@@ducc0287 Don't forget Gacha Club/Life Community. Gosh.
A lot of the communities I've been apart of have been deemed the most toxic fandom, but what people need to realize is that most of the time the toxic people are the most vocal. It gets really annoying, but what can you do.
I absolutely agree. Sometimes it feels like everyone is just lying in wait for someone to mess up just to jump on someone to make a bunch of views. I love the diversity that creators add to their channels like the art mysteries series. Heck, even LavenderTowne’s ‘Turning things into cute girls’ is something so light hearted and fun to see. We watch art CC youtubers for their opinions and passions!
Calling out people is very important of course, but we never see the actual youtuber behind all of the drama. This community can be so diverse and beautiful with time and improvement.
Thumin: “You heard me, I’m choosing violence.”
Me: I know this and I love you.
😩
I like how she has a variety of different content rather than just art commentary. And when she does talk about drama it's not to attack another person, it doesn't call out anyone, it discusses the issues and provides a resolution.
In a way, I want to be part of the community but I'm scared of the possible backlash I may get due to something little. Especially since English isn't my main language and I might be wording things wrong. People pick on the smallest things ever and the audience is just as much at fault for consuming the drama-fueled videos as the creators for making it. It's difficult but I believe if we work hard enough we might make this community less toxic.
Unpopular opinion: We should talk less about drama and instead talk more about art history
Kinda related to the first point but I rarely see any Latino creators in the acc. It's just something I noticed as a Mexican myself. Maybe we just stay away from commentary, but who knows.
same i was thinking, also as a mexican, fine well do it ourselves
That’s probably a good thing 😩
Save yourselves from the bozo behavior in this community
Here’s a take. This community is kinda weird when it comes to art that depicts certain subjects like ab*se or sh .Just because art depicts those things doesn’t mean that it’s romanizing or glorifying it and acting like it always does can cause more harm than good . Also, I think that allegations could be handled a lot better because, instead of waiting for more information, it becomes a race to see who can cover it the fastest which causes false information to spread.
K, I’m done thanks for reading
yeah this community kinda hates ppl who make vent art, I understand if it's like pr0wrn of those kinda things but normally it's people just making normal vent art who get cancelled, sometimes it's not even explicit ;-;
Yeah I agree. People just love to hate and jump to conclusions so fast. Like back when Dreamalgia was the topic, their haters just assumed that their cuts and bruises were being “romanticized” and shit like that. Like it’s just their way of coping. Of trying to see something that they thought was ugly into something beautiful. But nope. Someone just had to think it was a dirty thing :0
Exactly art has different interpretations it’s ironic the art community doesn’t seem to understand that they look at one thing and jump to a conclusion without making a simple analysis to try understanding an artists head space they did this with the whole dolliieguts drama
Yeah, always circling back to Dreamalgia, because some people wanted to be so self-righteous they felt like they could dictate who draws what, what constitutes as trauma art, and go so far as to call other horrible names regarding it.
Thank you! There's definitely a lot of antis in the community. Not to mention how ppl accuse these artists of being something terrible just bcuz of what they draw/like in fiction, even going as far as to calling their art "CP" or "romanticizing" abuse.
I wish more of the art commentary channels just did their research. Most of the Tobi & hopeless peaches drama would not be as bad if they looked at the screen shots. Then again most just want to fuel a fire instead of putting themselves into the others shoes.
Google is free!
Well I can kind of disagree with the screen shots because you can easily fake one and I feel the same way with the creep show drama because she didn't give any proof for the hopeless peaches and I was so stupid for believing.
Google always isn't right!
@@sumrandomonline yeah but people wouldn't even read the bewares on people, they would just take fake evidence, etc. I feel like they should have googled further, and look at some of the DM instead of just coming to TH-cam and just saying the same thing everyone else is saying.
@@sumrandomonline What I ment by looking at screen shots is to see if there fake or not
@@wlfgrl7764 That's the thing with the art community nobody goes and checks because if it's their favorite art community like Creep Show everybody's gonna believe them because of their popularity.
I like listening to ur videos when I draw! You really inspire me! Thank you for that.
I love your art. The way you draw hair is so pretty. I think for this piece, the roses should be red to stand out more from the hair. It kinda blends in a bit but that might be what you were going for.
Ah this is such a great idea, ill try doing that next time 🤩
What i really really love about your channel is that youre always open up for unpopular opinions as long as the person sharing them is respectful and tbh yea the community sucks but maybe eventually we can fix some of the issues in it
My problem with the community is how easily they jump on hate bandwagons despite the lack of evidence. The community jumped to hate on spoctor back during the stories and pentagrin thing. The community jumped on the hopeless peaches bandwagon and many more
I think saying the Art CC is as toxic as the beauty community is really pushing it. The beauty community is so toxic to the point that their drama singlehandedly got TH-cam, a mostly hands-off company, involved in their mess. And over some damn hair gummies 😑 they deserve an award for how toxic they are and I don't think we could ever really compare to that.
The art in the thumbnail looks lovely!
It does.
Thank you!💞
I think its true that the art commentary community focuses a little more on problematic creators than some of the art being made but I don't think it's as bad as the beauty community just yet?
Idk I just feel like the art commentary community isn't big enough yet to be the same amount or more toxic than that, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been in the past because it sure has!
It's right up under the beauty community, waiting to take its spot!
"There's no need to tear each other down in order to take a step forward." GO OFF QUEEN
When ever someone starts drama and ''calls out'' another person people are always quick to say I knew it and make videos criticising the new ''bad guy''
13:13
This is practically what happened in the Tobi and Hopeless Peaches drama with Omnia.
The difference is that on the Tobi drama Omnia's "mistake" was leaking DM's (which is stupid because Tobi was the one who _lied_ about everything they talked about in the first place) and the "private story" Omnia wasn't able to blur out at first, she actually did when people pointed it out yet people still hold out the "But u leaked a priVAtE sTOrY!!1!" over her head, even though Tobi was later found mentioning it on a comment on her *public* community post at the time.
Omnia censored the screenshots and apologized, yet people still use the "leaked DM's" argument bs on her despite it.
As for the Hopeless Peaches drama, I always see people use the thumbnail argument against Omnia all the time as if that immediately nullifies all her *legit* criticisms on Peaches. Omnia was on a break at the time and couldn't have known it, and when she _did_ she immediately apologized and changed it. Yet people still bring up the stupid thumbnail shit as a "gotcha" despite Spoctor's video having the thumbnail unchanged. 🙄 Y'all can't even claim Spoctor got permission because Peaches' twitlonger mentioning it _did_ include Spoctor in her disappointment with the thumbnail being used (despite how it seemed Peaches focused on Omnia more but whatever...)
And then with Creepshow and Luke being caught lying about Peaches, all of a sudden those with legitimate bad experiences on Peaches (Camila, Kai and Omnia) are seen as "lying" as well ~doesn't help that JAR made videos roasting them because he really wants to defend his friend so hard lmao~
It's almost like there's no such thing as nuance in the community. You can acknowledge that people lied about a person while _also_ acknowledging that they also did bad things to other people....
Also the art in this thumbnail is fabulous!!
Oh yeah also you can find it on her Instagram!
Ikr
@@_s4turnn_ I saw it on Twitter
@@siag2345 oh!, i only have Instagram but yeah it’s cool it’s on Twitter too!
It does look nice
I love the art community! Well the nice part...I have been in alot of toxic art fandoms which I have now left soo yeah
Let's be honest most fandoms are getting more and more toxic.
@@sumrandomonline Yes, not only art communities.
@@sumrandomonline yea it really sucks
@@KKNOWSYOU It does
Thank you. You said everything I've been thinking for years.
I'd also like to add elitism. I've seen some artists with egos. I had an artist tell me that I shouldn't do commissions because I'm "not good enough". They said that I needed to be on their level before I even consider selling commissions. There was also an artist who started a witch hunt on people for using references. That artist said "real artists don't need references." They were later outed for using and not crediting their references.
My experiences mainly come from DeviantArt, so it's a bit different but I do have quite a few stories about the horse-art community...
The art commentary community isn't nearly as bad as the beauty community. Because at least the art cc wants to try to provide facts and do research, the beauty community just wants to expose expose expose.
Great video as always thumin!! Everything was really well worded and I think this video will open a lot of people's eyes to things that need to / should be changed!
I know this was 7 months ago, but I’m not surprised the beauty community is so damn toxic. When a community is so heavily based on superficial looks and values, of course people are gonna act up smh. The art community can definitely be toxic, but it’s more so people trying to improve their craft
I hope your channel grows and gets better thumin , you are an absolute queen and deserve all the success in te world
While the art cc might be horrendous now, I think with enough determination and kindness we can make things a lot better
And Thumin I see you lurkin 👀
I hate how the art commentary community feels like they need to harass people instead of just criticising them for their wrongs. It’s completely unnecessary and just a waste of their own time to harass others
This video is literally so well put together like Thumin really did exactly what she needed to do!! (Especially the biased clique part omg!!)
The art community needs to watch this and learn
Video Idea: Unsolicited Critiques
i think that this would be a cool topic to talk about when it comes to the art community!
This is a great idea! Ill put a 📌 in it and make a video in the future because i have THOUGHTS!!
@@Thumin Thanks! I really want to hear your opinion on it :D
Most based video in the community, you spitting straight facts, girl! Also, this "high-school-mentality" is so on point. This was always the feeling I've got the way creators form groups and gossip about each other, making an elephant out of a mouse or vice versa. Serious topics get treated as drama and the smallest things get treated like a sin against humanity.
But I don't think the beauty community is better. That community treats CEOs and, well, companies like people. Every time they convince you to hate the other out of a childish misunderstanding they're playing with profits and more importantly the viewer's money. They literally live off telling you how ugly you are, but in a sneaky "I'm your friend, this is constructive criticism" way. It's not. I can promise you that neither Jefreee or Tati or any other millionare cares about you.
Question for the section about how mistakes are dangled over someone’s head. What do you think about people saying “This isn’t your apology to accept” when a creator apologizes for something. This argument usually comes up when a creator addresses their mistakes; I’m going to use racism as an example because I’m bad at explaining lmaow.
If a creator apologizes for saying a slur in a video or etc, their Non-poc community seems to accept their apology quickly for their actions. Likely, most people will start saying that “Since you’re white then this isn’t your apology to accept” and will perpetually bring up the fact that the creator has said a slur when they apologized in the past.
How do you feel about that? :0
I agree kinda. If you said something to a Yeah specific person or you use something like a slur. It's not you're right to accept their apology 1st the person who they specifically said to has apologized 1st and then you can accept their apology or not.
So in my opinion it all depends on if that creator has apologised correctly and not gone back to being racist or bigoted. Most of the times actions speak louder than words.
It's true that white viewers shouldn't accept an apology for someone using slurs meant for black ppl because it doesn't affect them. In these cases, the creator in question has to show with their actions that they aren't anti-black.
Pewdiepie is a good example of this. He said a slur but apologised and has made sure to change his actions to reflect that he is an ally rather than a bigot.
I also wanna add that all black ppl aren't a monolith so while some might accept said apology, its valid if others don't. ^^
@@Thumin essay explain better than I did
I do like watching the art commentary community and drama sometimes, it depends on the topic but I’ve noticed a lot of hypocrisy especially recently. Is everyone supposed to be perfect? No, but it creates more toxicity if you don’t practice what you preach and commentary in general is already a pretty toxic space.
The art in this video *chef's kiss *. I'm glad you brought up the point of how people will drag someone's art when they get exposed for something bad that has nothing to do with their art. I've seen this happen very recently and it's just low to do such a thing
I feel like the acc is headed down a dark path. This is making me start to dislike art on youtube. It can be restored but if we don't address these issues now, it might be to late.
Don't worry, they're plenty of channels that are not part of this mess 😄
I've always really wanted to share my art online and join the community but all the toxicity that I've seen within the art community is really terrifying and deterring, especially as a brown girl. So I'm honestly really grateful for you and a lot of other bipoc artists for sharing your art/experiences and putting yourselves out there.
Same honestly I'mma do it anyway
Toxic person: literally telling a child to “not alive” themselves (you can change the scenario if you want)
Some art commentary people: stop being dramatic 😉🌸✨
omg I've seen too much of that like they're literal children they probably don't know what their doing is wrong
like theirs something called 😻empathy😻
Love, Live, Laugh, W, For you
Your art has gotten a lot better since your first video with your art in it! You always manage to motivate me to work on my own art☺️
Unrelated Comment: Thumin's art is always so pretty. I wish I could color like that. I'm gonna have to practice for a while longer, but I hope to get there someday.
I need to hear this cause I definitely count as an art commentary channel. I’ve heard things here and there within the community and want to be sure I evolve best I can. Especially being a fellow black creator.
THUMIN IS AN ABSOLUTE QUEEN!!!!
To me it seems that the art commentary community stems from the ranting community , one could say one evolved from the other or that that's the current name its being used under nowadays. Surely others see the overlap? It feels as though they have the exact same problems they did before: spreading misinformation and focusing on petty things rather than actually informing the audience and correcting certain actions. Half-assed apologies that often come after the damage is long done, even still make fun of others artwork as a quick haha moment just like the whole Mary Sue or bad art critiques of some artist deemed problematic for whatever reason. It feels like a cycle, just like the ranting community, you will have people doing the same things both these communities do but claim they are a part of a different , totally better community or just claim to be their own thing. I think, these recurring issues should be addressed and fixed, but the community as a whole would have to admit that they are there and hold themselves as individuals accountable for their actions rather than blame others for largely the same thing.
A video is just like a game, its better to delay it and make sure all is done , than to rush it out incomplete.
I despise cliques. People go stupid to defend their friends f**kery just for the sake of defending a friend. Nuff said.
Also , lastly, I don't get people who run straight to video topics right after they watch a video. No one needs you to crusade or harass people. that's common sense. You don't need ti do that, nobody with sense told you to do that. Have some personal responsibility, harassing or pursuing people for your fave youtuber's sake isn't your job nor obligation. Its much more affective and impactful to support than to attack or "go for the luls."
Rambling over, good video , good critisisms, won't get complaints out of me. Good day.
My own opinion on the art cc:
I feel like when handling serious topics/accusations (mental health, p3d0ph1l1a etc) in the art cc and cc in general, most creators + viewers kinda make it into a black and white/basic topic yk.
Serious topics/accusations like these should be something handled with care and researched on extensively so that a creator and their fanbase don’t end up spreading misinformation about the topic and even the person they are accusing. Always provide proper proof where is necessary or where they can.
When talking about this, we as a community should realise that there is always a grey area about this.
to add on the misinformation part: sometimes proof given do show the bullhit being said, either from actually not proving anything, or outright showing context making it proof of innocence.
the main problem is people don't go read a drive folder with "evidence", the video is supposedly doing that for them.
The power balance is always in favor of the one making the video, until someone comes to debunk them.
I also HATE how a lot of the ACC will play armchair psychologist. Mental health is not a thing you get to play with like that, calling someone a "sociopath" will lead to people harrassing said person by calling them that and invalidate any response given.
Mental health in general is mistreated enough as it is by pop culture and society, we don't need some shitty tea-spiller diagnosing people from the comfort of their bed at 3.AM while they browse funny kitten pictures.
Do. Not. Use. Mental Health. As. A. Gotcha point.
This extends to the general commentary communities at large, this behaviour is problematic.
Actually the only reason the ACC is so toxic is because a lot of the creators doing negative videos know those drive clicks.
It's not too surprising as a result that a lot of videos are done over the pettiest shit.
I actually ended up unsubbing from Creepshow art before she got revealed as horrible because she was only pushing negative content, most that I found to be down right petty
EDIT: to add more positivity, really loving your art, and your layers are so much better organised than mine ;-;.
Can I just say - this drawing is really pretty! I love the roses and her cotton candy pink hair!!! >w<
I love how easily you just whip out the roses. They look really great
20:52 Eyy that's me!
Jokes aside this video pretty much summarizes my thoughts with the problems within the art community.
Hopefully future content creators will take the things you brought to light into consideration.
I completely agree with you. I like how when you talk about drama you don't call out anybody, you try to find solutions! And the points you stated out was completely unbiased and correct. (Your art is immaculate btw!)
Ok I know this is kind of off topic but I literally love the eyes on this drawing! 🤩
I seriously love how unbiased and informative your videos are. As a young artist you're a very big inspiration to me and it's like you're my guidance through this kinda hellish art world. It's also really inspiring to see a black creator, speaking and talking about the problems, that plague this community
One thing I hate about the Art CC, is when the small majority of creators hate and invalidate your opinions. And they try and convince their viewers that a certain opinion is wrong.
But anyways, thank you so much for your videos! You inspire me so much
Omg this speedpaint is so pretty, your art is so cool and pretty 😃
Your voice is so calming I can sleep to hearing it all day ❤😊
According to all known laws
of aviation,
there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.
Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.
The bee, of course, flies anyway
because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.
But really this is such a good thing to talk about and I love how the community was also asked for some ideas too for greater viewpoints and also to feel involved. It's also just a great thing to cover and talk about as well as a call to do better as well. It's something I feel needs to have attention brought to it with pointing out errors and where the community has gone wrong and drawing people (pun intended) toward questioning beliefs, biases, and toward a better community. And of course, fantastic art as always.
I loved your video thumin. Though I do have a question. I know you said that people who have done racist, transphobic, or homophobic, ect. things make an apology that certain people shouldn’t accept and as a fellow black person that deals with racism I agree with you. But what if the person doesn’t hold those same discriminatory beliefs anymore. Aren’t they aloud to change and redeem themselves?
I think if the person has apologised and proved with their actions that they don't hold those beliefs anymore, then they can be redeemed.
A good example is Pewdiepie, he said a slur, immediately apologised and has been doing his best to be an ally which is what i like to see personally. ^^
@@Thumin 100% agree! Actions speak louder than words, and part of redeeming yourself is recognising that people don’t have to forgive you for what you did.
@@DogsandPennies ^^^
This is unrelated but your art is awesome, I love the way you draw hair
Intro/sponsor 0:00 flullts of the art work cc i hope i said that right 2:55 what art cc thinks of art cc 14:57 solutions 19:57 Drama 19:57 i hope this helps you
I loved the video smm
also oml so true, im half asain and even then im still nervous to actually join the art community for fear of me just going to constantly be facing mean racist comments (im sensitive enough to them as is, which like..yeah ik its bad that im like that)
also love your art so much, amazing!!!
fhsskfslj also ignore my pfp i have nothing else to change it to. alr weird comment is over,
love you thumin!
My hot take is minors shouldn't be content creators in the art CC. You can call this gatekeeping if you want, but children are bound to make mistakes. And to have everyone you know and trust turn on you because of said mistakes can be so damaging. Children are growing, human brains are not fully developed till their are 25. And now we have 13-18 years being put into adult positions such as making sure they can protect and run their own communities and expecting them to be perfect when we all know why minors can't consent for a reason. They are not developed enough, yet we still treat their mistakes as adult.
And on the flip side, I have found a majority of drama, spreading of rumors comes from minors. And I mean things like 'they are tracing' or 'this person was rude/being petty.' When teen are perpetuating a lot of this drama its self. I am pressure sure that is were the 'highschool drama' comes from. Because these minors are still navigating through that part of their life. And we all know how horrible some teenagers can be. They especially do the "well I didn't experience 'x' thing this way, so your representation of it is wrong/glorifying it."
I am not saying this as 'children/teens are bad.' But they are so easy to manipulate and more so by social media. And there are absolutely adults who take part in this type of behavior as well. I am just worried about the long term psychological effects of minors were their frontal cortex isn't developed and they are all ready in a vulnerable state because of puberty and being a teenager sucks. I know this wont happen, there will always be minors who make content, but I really wish people would take this into account.
On a side note, there is such an air for cancel culture of the most trivial things to the point that even though I want to make content and be part of the art CC, my PTSD couldn't handle it. And it has scared me off from wanting to join, because it would be like stepping on egg shells.
I agree with you. Children shouldn't make channels especially alone. And worse I'm sure the parents don't know they have an TH-cam account.
Can we agree that she is by FAR the best most underated artist?
Edit: Guys she is bc James charles (a person that doesn't deserve what he has) groomed a minor and STILL has alot of subs. I think thumin deserves her subs if not more. So uh no attacks please-
Under rated huh, she was 207k (deserved) but huhh
shes a big artist. She deserves it but she isnt underrated lmao
She is the best tho lol
yes
She's not underrated, but she's not overrated either
Goddamn your art is so beautiful and inspiring ✨
I very much so miss when the art community had good ideas and good trends, like spidersona's or the surplus amount of animation memes, trends that were everywhere, fun for everyone, and anyone could join in. I pray for the day that a good art trend sweeps the internet again ❤
I ABSOLUTELY agree on cutting out the drama and the poor behavior toward each other, it’s called the ART CC for a reason. We should be focusing on art and not everyone else’s business, like drawing tips or “how I got into art” stories, tell us about your characters you draw, show us your favorite color pallets! Almost every time I find a new ACC TH-camr I enjoy, 5 months later they’re being canceled for some absurd grooming charges or manipulation, I like many came to see people draw and see art through their eyes for once. I can only think of ONE TH-camr I watch regularly who (so far) hasn’t been demonized yet, she tells stories about her characters and tells us about her artistic childhood.
My fix? ACC needs to mind their own damn businesses and start talking about art for once. We aren’t here for the gossip or the drama, the emotional and racial attacks or the false allegations. If we wanted that we’d go turn on the 1:00 soaps and get your drama and gossip there, leave our beloved art alone.
Honestly I love your videos and your courage to call literally everyone out, I came here to help fight against the poor behavior of those who throw their childish insults at you for no reason. Imma stick around if ya don’t mind 👀
Girl, all of us artists are wonderful people and amazing what we do. So Are you Thumin. That artwork is like Roses 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹 No matter what is happening to you, stay strong.
Love you THUMIN❤️❤️❤️ you are one of my favorite artists you’ve gotten SO GOOD I love it!! As a viewer and a Black Artist I am NOT HYPE to join the art commentary community. I watch a wide variety of artist and art related content and the commentary community is by far the most tumultuous. Y’all have no chill…at all. Despite they’re being SOOooo many creative and talented people in the space there are way too many with such closed minded and shallow views. To me art is a careful and complex form of expression, how is it that that complexity isn’t translated into the things people say and think??? Like the amount of willfully ignorant, out of pocket, holier than thou REACHING made by yt ppl (and their “I’d rather be a token” headasses defending them) taking place is deplorable. I remember watching this one vid a few months ago about that whole Tobi mess where a bunch of white people really sat up there downplaying her actions and not a lick of leniency was given to the people she affected and said “race was a can of worms that didn’t need to be opened” after they straight jumped on poc creators like WTF y’all are weird. The fact that y’all can even absolve yourselves from your race when you get caught/called out is a PRIVILEGE!!!! My Blackness is with me every where I go, I can’t leave that shit at home!!!! And as a minority even if A poc were to put our race aside these yt ppl still attach that to everything that you do in the ACC. Also there is a HUGE disparity between creators, views, and their sub counts for creating similar content is alarming. Especially since the few black and other POC creators that do exist tend to make much better curated content and have much less traction plus they get no slack whatsoever. If it doesn’t apply to you don’t respond because I don’t care 🥱My opinion is that as a community we can do better y’all viewers and creators alike, every time some crazy, unhelpful, unhealthy , toxic drama is going on we don’t have to give it so much attention, privacy is precious for growth let’s try letting people live and change for the better and bring art back into the conversation. Isn’t that what this community was supposed to be about, why are we so limiting in what people can do or say in a space that is about cultivating creativity. I’d like to see more mindful and considerate art videos anyways loved this video and can’t wait to see more from you have a great day
Valid points. I agree. I was painting while watching this :] oh also, i really like the sparkles on your art. I would love a part 2.
Unfortunately, these problems have persisted within the art community itself since before art commentary ever got off the ground, including here on youtube, it makes sense that they'd carry over.
These issues are the reason why my fiancee and I left it over a decade ago and it just seems to have never improved much.
I will say that it's nice to see it being talked about though. I think that it's possible for things to improve, it's just that with such deep roots it's going to take time and effort.
"Cancelling 13 year olds..." Yep I vividly remember the Sashley drama ...
Amazing artttt! And I’m loving the gradients in your art
Got back from the live stream from Twitter and I love it!
When Thumin chooses violence...
*you know it's going to get SERIOUS*
I love drawing and posting it but when I post my art I get a lot of hate
Leaving a comment in hopes of that part 2, yyyyooooooooo~
Also, le gasp~ I am the Empty Decade~
Literally though, what u said was so true and its truly unfortunate that ppl ruin the fun for younger artists 🖨🖨
Omg thank you so much for making this video I need my tea☺️☺️☺️
Thumin videos are always amazing because she always provide a good amount of information with beautiful visual and a pleasent voice.
I love your art style and love that you keep telling stories keep it up. No matter what anyone says just keep going you’re amazing.🥰
THISSSSS!! I love all the points you brought up
I don’t think the art community isn’t as bad as the beauty community,but it’s heading there at this pointಠ_ಠ
Also the eyes on your drawing are just-*chef’s kiss*(≧∀≦)
My unpopular opinion about the art commentary community (or just the commentary community in general) is that some channels fall into the same pitfalls some mainstream celebrity gossip sites like TMZ fall into. I’ve seen people talk about art community drama the same way that TMZ talks about Britney Spears.
I love your art style and I love you keep telling stories about the community. Keep doing it and don’t let people bring you down you’re amazing.🥰
Your art is so pretty, I love the way you colour so much (:
What you said about positive advice for minor artists, that can very well apply to (bare with me) the gacha community, because so many gacha heaters get so much hate from other communities (heck, even ours, the gacha community) when (bare with me again) most of them don't deserve it because they are CHILDREN mostly between 8-10 YEARS. If you start attacking them from primary school, THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO GET BEAUTIFUL.
I also want more people to see this, soo i'm commenting this
One thing that’s bothered me is the whole “You can’t criticize smaller channels” mentality. Some people just have really bad takes and if the bigger channel is the one to notice and be bothered enough to respond, going “No!!! You can’t make a video on them- you’re a bigger channel” is reductive. It’s a complete shutdown of the conversation.
First off, I love the art in this video, especially the eyes. From one artist to another, you should totally experiment with different shades of blue in the line art for your greens sometime, you might find some really fun combinations that make it pop in different, interesting ways.
As for the video, I really love what you have to say here. It's so refreshing to hear a take like this by now, and I appreciate you. I don't really have much to add on that at the moment besides that you totally nailed this subject. I'm glad I followed you.
I would love a video explaining your process! Also fax no printer. The way that people drag poc creators for just existing is not okay.
I am totally shy about my artwork. However we should start support instead of getting offensive. I do agree what you say Thumin. This shouldn't stand, Art communities needs to support everyone not getting angry about it.
It's just incredibly important for all of our artists to admit that we have to stop the harassment and the toxic comments needs to kind instead of having blacklash. Please own up for your mistakes and stop the petty scandal. It makes me angry that so many good artists are quitting on TH-cam and what do y'all do criticize others. Stay calm and Love your art.
If you don't like what I say, then you're getting offended sorry. I am apologetic not angry. My artwork is amateur and I'll continue to support every artist or animator who works hard. I am speaking it like it is .
By the way, This is what Thumin was exactly talking about. Don't get too offensive. Toxic or not, never try to explain to me what I said is. I am not phrasing it wrong, I am only speaking out. Thank you for listening to thumin.
I do very much enjoy your content and even been watching some others. Since my art has been evolving and how my twitch channel has been going I've been considering making art commentary videos, where I just talk about anime as I enjoy anime and I draw anime characters as anthropomorphic animals as that's what I like to draw. I kinda don't like drama as I have social anixety. I very much like this insight on the community as it helps me get prepared if something like that happens. I need to stop being scared and get out of my shell.
i am so happy there are creators like you who add non biased approaches to issues that they’re talking about. it’s a real refresher from the same ol “omg this creator is bad i hate them go hate them too grrgrr drama!!!!” stuff
another banger vid by thumin, keep going girll!!
Everything you draw is so sparkly and lovely!
THUMIN! great video (so far)you really cover topics well :) I love your art could you maybe make a video or community post on the brushes you use in ibis paint? you don't have to ofc :)) btw the use of Perfect Blue is just *chefs kiss*
I love your art so much!! It looks amazing, I am happy now :D
Another great and high quality video :D
I agree with every point made. It's really sad Thumin doesn't have more subscribers :( keep making awesome videos!
“Where a 13 year old will have 10 call out videos and be canceled”
Intense Sashley drama flashbacks
And yes idc what y’all think that drama was unfair and wrongly throwing hate to sashley ok-
Exactly people were comparing her to birdie even though they are both young what birdie did wasn’t even comparable not to mention the fact when it was discovered she was using derogatory language instead of explaining to the 13 why saying those things are bad they cancelled her what makes it worse is that the hate train started when she was just 11 bruh
@@KKNOWSYOU
Yeah,, and it’s still constantly coming up. Like,, the fact the worst thing she did was get inspired by Typh,, and said the N slur without meaning it badly (still pretty bad but she WAS 13 BRO) People will start ww3 bc of it. It’s insane and pisses me off lol
Cant wait for the 1000th sashley drama!!!! I hope it’s about just colors or poses! (sarcasm if anyone didn’t catch on)
@@caesarzeppeli5381
Oh boi,, what if we accuse her of pose theft because a character was looking in the same direction😧
Sarcasm fyi lol
Personally I feel like in the art cc (or genera cc) there is too much infantalization happening with mostly adult creators (usually the ones who are in their early to late 20s). And I mean too much “babying” in the sense of a creator does something wrong and everyone immediately either excusing it or downplaying the actions.
I will use creepshowart as an example because oof wow people really excused her behavior. When people like Tobi rightfully criticized her in the past (ik tobi is a mess of her own but some criticisms were valid), Shannon immediately pulled the “I was homeless and sad when I made my old videos” and a lot of fans essentially babied her saying “oh Shannon it’s okay you’ve grown” or “omg please stay strong uwu” even though Shannon is an adult in her late 20s. Not saying she can’t be sad as an adult but when somebody is giving you valid criticism of how reactionary she can be, she shouldn’t have pulled the “I’m sad card” and her fans shouldn’t have enabled that and babied her.
And hell even Tobi to an extent was in a way babied or excused by other commentators. Especially her drawing questionable art of Todoroki and having some flimsy excuses (ie her “I didnt know his age” and “I aged him up”) some were saying “oh it’s fine it’s not as bad as x artist who draws worse” or “she didn’t know guys give her a chance”.
And then I’ve seen other commentators talk about drama involving a literal child (like this 13 year old “copied” somebody ooo so scandalous) and basically tell them they need to grow up and are way more harsh!
TLDR; the art commentary community has the tendency to infantalize (mostly older adult) creators often finding excuses to justify the behavior made by said adult