Mbt is obsesses with eclipse wyvern because he did a massive masochist tourney that was won by dragons literally kn the bqck of eclipse wyvern adding lubellion, ced and levi
Hear me out: Fiendsmith Zoodiac. Small enough engine, Doesn't die to the same handtraps that kill Tear, Can spam Dweller using Ratpier, you got Fusion Sub combo, Chakanine can climb you into Fiendsmith combo, and can play that many handtraps that it works.
I think zodiac problem is that they take to much of your ED space for not big enough payoffs the concept of the deck is correct but you probably can do better with SE or something that came in the recent years
except that your ED probably isn't big enough to accommodate both engines. Fiendsmith: Closed Heaven/Requiem/Dies Irae/Lacrima/Beatrice?/Caesar?/Desiraebis is 5-7 slots Zoo is at the very least 3 of the XYZ names + Norden so you have 6 slots for turn 3+
Listening to some of these people's takes on older decks really shows how badly yugi boomers underestimate power creep in this game. You could give Zoodiac every card off the banlist right now with Shock Master and 3x pot of greed and that deck is still getting absolutely smoked by the same Ishizu Tearlament list that everyone played in Master Duel a year ago with no extra cards.
Fr, every past tier zero deck gets railed by MD launch Ishizu/Tear and MD launch Kash with Arise-Heart and Diablosis. Now imagine those two at full power with everything unlimited. An unlimited format would literally be Tearlaments vs Kashtira. Maybe a few D-Link players and a few random FTK strats
since tear is a turn-0 deck in unlimited format and considered the best deck, any potential 2nd best deck would need to have a similar capability of turn-0 plays. im not sure which decks do it but if there will be a superior deck released in the future, it will be able to play on the opponents turn
I couldn't answer this question in a vaccum. But in a format where tear is the clear best deck i think dragonlink has the options to both, make crazy boards going first and play 20 bystials as an effective non engine to at least have a chance against tear.
I feel like some sort of Paleo trap pile just having access to busted cards on the level of I/O could make it a strong contender even against Tear since the mills would only help you.
If it isn’t Tearlament, then it would be either Kashtira or Spright. POTE was treated like the “mistake” set by Konami. They were all strong for like 4-6 months and then got hit on the banlists, and even then with each hit it only slowed them down until they got their final bans/limits yet they are still relevant today.
I'm looking back on Kashtira format, and I genuinely don't understand how this deck was ever the best deck in its format. Sure, the 9 lock was really good, but that had a double digit number of commonly played outs without Lance, and even with Lance was still outed by Lava Golem. And on top o that, it's brickier than most top tier decks, and was incredibly vulnerable to handtraps assuming you don't draw the cards you were searching anyways. With Snake Eyes, I feel like I need multiple specific board breakers or hand traps to stand a chance, but I've beaten full Kashtira endboard even in decks that should never be beating it like Tear or Zombie just by drawing Talents or DRNM.
@@Endershock1678I think Kash Format is a hilarious example of people willing a format into existence. No way in hell Kash was the strongest deck in that format, it was just good enough on paper to make people think it was.
You should start a progression series where all the top decks face off against each other. Just go get a few other people and do a tournament that last a few episodes. I've seen something similar on card market for MTG it's one of thier most watched series
My personal comment is Synchrons. Although not the best, the fact it can make some many things and play around a decent amount of things st minimum makes me think it would have a decent shot
could you just play some kind of tight rank 4 strat to spam out utopic zexal? any 3 generic 3 4s on the field would be able to end on a 3 material utopic zexal plus an armored xyz line to close out games faster. could then fill the rest of your deck with hand traps. not gonna say its the best, but i think itd be pretty decent at least
Rhongo turbo could also be kinda underrated tbh, though you have to consider being forced to go second. You’d have no chance against Tear or Kash going second
It is probably me coping and hating on Kashtira players, but I feel like full power Kash is almost as good as Tearlament Ishizu against everyone else while also stomping Tear. Having Fenrir, Unicorn, Terraforming, Arise-Heart, Shifter and Diablosis on top of that, all at 3 is just unfun and unfair. The only thing Kash can't really do is playing "turn 0".
As i have said in the comments in my own comment, an unlimited format will literally just be Tearlaments vs Kashtira, with a few D-Link players and some random FTKs. There is no deck other than Tear and an insanely lucky D-Link pilot that can even hope to play against full power Kashtira
Imo the top three decks in an unlimited format are: Tearlaments. Kashtira. Dragon Link. Tear is obvious. Kashtira is designed as a fundamental counter to Tear and in an unlimited format it would be crazy strong, consistent, and even handtrap resistant. Arise-Heart alone is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. Add in Diablosis and it’s crazy oppressive, Kashtira is anti-everything. The only decks that could challenge full power Kash are Tear and D-Link. And D-Link just has so many tools at its disposal against everything else that it sweeps everything except Tear and Kash. With these three it would literally be “who goes first wins”. Kash and D-Link cannot get through Tear (though Kash has a better chance at doing it than D-Link does). Tear and D-Link are fucked if Arise-Heart hits the field and Shangri-Ira has locked their backrow. And D-Link can do so much that even Tear and Kash might not be able to get through their end board.
My Precious Queen was indeed tier 0 in speed duel, and a dominant tier 0 at that. Anyone not playing My Precious Queen was not a serious contender to win a tournament. However, Jesse is right that nobody played Insect Queen. That card sucks.
Imho I think you’re valuing non-engine too heavily in this particular discussion. Non-engine is definitely important but you still need something to DO once you’ve hand trapped your opponent into oblivion. If the goal is to beat IshTear specifically then you need to be able to keep pace with and/or stop your opponent popping off T0 and for that you need a VERY resilient engine that doesn’t die to milling half the deck. I think in a true unlim format the best places to START with beating IshTear are probably some odd-ball variant of Dragon Link, maybe Adamancipator? And potentially a truly disgusting variant of Snake-Eye. There MIGHT be a world where Yubel or Unchained could see some success as well, but Unchained especially would require an INSANE pilot ripping genuinely perfect value out of every last card.
I honestly dont hate centur-ion like if you think about what the most played handtraps would be in the format its like shifter, maxx c, fuwalos, ash, droll, purulia, nib and centur-ion is kinda insane into all of them. Youre 1 card combos setup king calamity giving them litterally 2 draws with maxx 1 with fuwa and 0 with purulia under droll shifter and nib. If they dont have those you can also just add a cosmic blazar to your endboard to insulate the king. The issue with centur-ion isnt that its extenders arent good its that it doesnt have enough but that really isnt an issue where you can just fill out your list with 3 pot 3 graceful 3 painful and call it a day. The issue with many of the other shifter shells is that they cant really kill under shifter the only real exception being kash, and while thats mostly true for centurion as well since you can very easily king calamity them it doesnt really matter. Overall, I think its kind of nice and quite possibly the best handtrap shell in the format.
Azathoth is garbage in an unlim format. ESPECIALLY against IshTear. Your opponent is going full combo before Azathoth’s MATERIALS can hit the board, and then when you pop their field they combo again. And even outside of the IshTear match, this format would 110% have significantly stronger and more reliable combos than an Elder/Outer/Old Entity line.
@@WolfPackAlpha-sn2sw Yeah I mean thats not what azathoth would be used for, but it is a pretty decent enboard piece any 2 lvl 4s can just make ptolemaeus which becomes an azathoth on the opponents turn. Its like the main enboard piece of zoo and probably a couple of other things, the card is a bit fragile, but still very strong
Full power Kashtira is the second strongest deck and Infernoble snake eyes is the third best based on the last unbanned tournament in Japan which had 14 tear tops and 4 kash tops with 1 snake eyes infernoble top lol
The thing is that Dandylion isn't as good in Plants as you would really assume, simply because Plants aren't really Synchro summoning, and it's not like we can't get enough link material, the issue is that we get infinite material and only 15 extra deck cards to make with said material. Uninterrupted, I'm frequently ending my turn with 0 cards in Extra.
@@plabcentral630 dude for real. SS just has infinite spells that can do literally anything. It feels like you're going up against someone with literal plot armor
@@jordandouglas5659 masterpiece didn't protect against ftk. I don't think many handtrap affect that much in no banlist tournament. I really think the only great hand trap is shifter and droll, and idk the name hand trap that gave you LP every time your opp SS.
@@muhammadaidil640 dont forget you can have maxx c, or charmies, drawing into other handtraps tho, which could absolutely stop some of the ftks. i think jesse was prolly right that the format would be dominated by decks that run insane hand trap counts and tear, just to beat the ftks
When MBT and others have tried doing no or fewer banlist tournaments you really don't see Masterpiece at 3 much at least pre the charmies because it's a brick if you don't have the cards to summon it so you really want just playing like two of it.
Zoodics are probably one of the best decks ever that people don't fully understand how insane they are. Obviously, it's compact, but the endboards is produces are nothing to scoff at. The rank 4 pool is arguably the most powerful collection of cards in the game, and Zoodiacs can make pretty much all of them more efficiently than any other deck using things like Ratpier's non OPT E-Tele. Shock Master, Dweller, Bagooska, Ptolmaes into Azathot, are all available, and it can reach any of these multiple times with a very small engine. I've seen Shock Master, Azathot, Dweller with a mere 15 zoodiac cards and the rest non-engine.
It is absolutely dragon link, dragon link is so absolutely ridiculous and crazy. Eclipse wyvern and black metal are just insanely plus and can summon any dragons in the game
The real reason Dragon Link is the top deck in No Banlist Format is because they have Victory Dragon. They have to win just half as many games as any other deck.
You are smoking crack if you think Dragon Link is even in the same ballpark as Ishizu Tear in an unlimited format with Painful Choice and Graceful Charity.
The funnier part is that (i think, imho) Jesse missed that most MBT's Twitter follower are Jank enthusiast and meta-hater. Ofc they can't saw a solid perception about Meta decks. Few of them are just sarcastic or typing bits. There's no decks can't close to Snake eye, zoo, or mystic mine for 2nd place best deck of all time.
Ishizu Adamancipator was my favorite deck when it was meta in MD. They can easily deck out the opponents if you get maxx c'ed, also Ishizu can be banished for Block Dragon
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [2/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qJbQs_nhjD4/mqdefault.jpg)
The guy who said "Whatever deck my opponent is playing at any given time" is the right answer 😂😂😂
Mbt is obsesses with eclipse wyvern because he did a massive masochist tourney that was won by dragons literally kn the bqck of eclipse wyvern adding lubellion, ced and levi
His tourneys are skewed bc it's quantal vs 15 bots lol
Hear me out:
Fiendsmith Zoodiac.
Small enough engine, Doesn't die to the same handtraps that kill Tear, Can spam Dweller using Ratpier, you got Fusion Sub combo, Chakanine can climb you into Fiendsmith combo, and can play that many handtraps that it works.
I like this line of thinking a lot ngl
Or you can just play Fiendsmith Snake Eyes and have the objectively better deck
I think zodiac problem is that they take to much of your ED space for not big enough payoffs the concept of the deck is correct but you probably can do better with SE or something that came in the recent years
except that your ED probably isn't big enough to accommodate both engines.
Fiendsmith:
Closed Heaven/Requiem/Dies Irae/Lacrima/Beatrice?/Caesar?/Desiraebis
is 5-7 slots
Zoo is at the very least 3 of the XYZ names + Norden
so you have 6 slots for turn 3+
Some of these threads have some the funniest, most objectively wrong answers its comedy gold. Would love to see more thread reactions!
Mbt saying eclipse can’t come off ever when painful choice a card is nuts.
Listening to some of these people's takes on older decks really shows how badly yugi boomers underestimate power creep in this game. You could give Zoodiac every card off the banlist right now with Shock Master and 3x pot of greed and that deck is still getting absolutely smoked by the same Ishizu Tearlament list that everyone played in Master Duel a year ago with no extra cards.
Fr, every past tier zero deck gets railed by MD launch Ishizu/Tear and MD launch Kash with Arise-Heart and Diablosis. Now imagine those two at full power with everything unlimited. An unlimited format would literally be Tearlaments vs Kashtira. Maybe a few D-Link players and a few random FTK strats
Probably incorrect. Before tear came out, zoo was winning every single traditional tournament held.
FIBER JAR is a pretty crazy card. Should be legal. #freeFiberJar
since tear is a turn-0 deck in unlimited format and considered the best deck, any potential 2nd best deck would need to have a similar capability of turn-0 plays. im not sure which decks do it but if there will be a superior deck released in the future, it will be able to play on the opponents turn
I love that he's mad at chat for not understanding the landscape of a format he himself was just introduced to
I couldn't answer this question in a vaccum. But in a format where tear is the clear best deck i think dragonlink has the options to both, make crazy boards going first and play 20 bystials as an effective non engine to at least have a chance against tear.
You also have to take into consideration the time the deck was released. For its time, dragon rulers was ridiculously overpowered.
I feel like some sort of Paleo trap pile just having access to busted cards on the level of I/O could make it a strong contender even against Tear since the mills would only help you.
If it isn’t Tearlament, then it would be either Kashtira or Spright. POTE was treated like the “mistake” set by Konami. They were all strong for like 4-6 months and then got hit on the banlists, and even then with each hit it only slowed them down until they got their final bans/limits yet they are still relevant today.
I'm looking back on Kashtira format, and I genuinely don't understand how this deck was ever the best deck in its format. Sure, the 9 lock was really good, but that had a double digit number of commonly played outs without Lance, and even with Lance was still outed by Lava Golem. And on top o that, it's brickier than most top tier decks, and was incredibly vulnerable to handtraps assuming you don't draw the cards you were searching anyways.
With Snake Eyes, I feel like I need multiple specific board breakers or hand traps to stand a chance, but I've beaten full Kashtira endboard even in decks that should never be beating it like Tear or Zombie just by drawing Talents or DRNM.
@@Endershock1678I think Kash Format is a hilarious example of people willing a format into existence. No way in hell Kash was the strongest deck in that format, it was just good enough on paper to make people think it was.
@@Endershock1678 Kash was just so toxic to play against to the point it does mental damage. It really wasnt that dominating over other decks
This Dragon Link discussion will be Jesse’s version of MBT with Master Peace 😭
You should start a progression series where all the top decks face off against each other. Just go get a few other people and do a tournament that last a few episodes. I've seen something similar on card market for MTG it's one of thier most watched series
My personal comment is Synchrons. Although not the best, the fact it can make some many things and play around a decent amount of things st minimum makes me think it would have a decent shot
We really did cross a line when shizu Tear was made.
could you just play some kind of tight rank 4 strat to spam out utopic zexal? any 3 generic 3 4s on the field would be able to end on a 3 material utopic zexal plus an armored xyz line to close out games faster. could then fill the rest of your deck with hand traps. not gonna say its the best, but i think itd be pretty decent at least
Rhongo turbo could also be kinda underrated tbh, though you have to consider being forced to go second. You’d have no chance against Tear or Kash going second
It is probably me coping and hating on Kashtira players, but I feel like full power Kash is almost as good as Tearlament Ishizu against everyone else while also stomping Tear. Having Fenrir, Unicorn, Terraforming, Arise-Heart, Shifter and Diablosis on top of that, all at 3 is just unfun and unfair. The only thing Kash can't really do is playing "turn 0".
As i have said in the comments in my own comment, an unlimited format will literally just be Tearlaments vs Kashtira, with a few D-Link players and some random FTKs. There is no deck other than Tear and an insanely lucky D-Link pilot that can even hope to play against full power Kashtira
Imo the top three decks in an unlimited format are:
Tearlaments.
Kashtira.
Dragon Link.
Tear is obvious. Kashtira is designed as a fundamental counter to Tear and in an unlimited format it would be crazy strong, consistent, and even handtrap resistant. Arise-Heart alone is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. Add in Diablosis and it’s crazy oppressive, Kashtira is anti-everything. The only decks that could challenge full power Kash are Tear and D-Link. And D-Link just has so many tools at its disposal against everything else that it sweeps everything except Tear and Kash.
With these three it would literally be “who goes first wins”. Kash and D-Link cannot get through Tear (though Kash has a better chance at doing it than D-Link does). Tear and D-Link are fucked if Arise-Heart hits the field and Shangri-Ira has locked their backrow. And D-Link can do so much that even Tear and Kash might not be able to get through their end board.
My Precious Queen was indeed tier 0 in speed duel, and a dominant tier 0 at that. Anyone not playing My Precious Queen was not a serious contender to win a tournament. However, Jesse is right that nobody played Insect Queen. That card sucks.
Imho I think you’re valuing non-engine too heavily in this particular discussion. Non-engine is definitely important but you still need something to DO once you’ve hand trapped your opponent into oblivion. If the goal is to beat IshTear specifically then you need to be able to keep pace with and/or stop your opponent popping off T0 and for that you need a VERY resilient engine that doesn’t die to milling half the deck.
I think in a true unlim format the best places to START with beating IshTear are probably some odd-ball variant of Dragon Link, maybe Adamancipator? And potentially a truly disgusting variant of Snake-Eye. There MIGHT be a world where Yubel or Unchained could see some success as well, but Unchained especially would require an INSANE pilot ripping genuinely perfect value out of every last card.
Iblee + Purple Nightfall in unlimited format cooks :)
I honestly dont hate centur-ion like if you think about what the most played handtraps would be in the format its like shifter, maxx c, fuwalos, ash, droll, purulia, nib and centur-ion is kinda insane into all of them. Youre 1 card combos setup king calamity giving them litterally 2 draws with maxx 1 with fuwa and 0 with purulia under droll shifter and nib. If they dont have those you can also just add a cosmic blazar to your endboard to insulate the king. The issue with centur-ion isnt that its extenders arent good its that it doesnt have enough but that really isnt an issue where you can just fill out your list with 3 pot 3 graceful 3 painful and call it a day. The issue with many of the other shifter shells is that they cant really kill under shifter the only real exception being kash, and while thats mostly true for centurion as well since you can very easily king calamity them it doesnt really matter. Overall, I think its kind of nice and quite possibly the best handtrap shell in the format.
Everyone talking about hts seem to forget azathoth is a thing
Not really a whole deck. They just played that in like phantom knights.
Azathoth is garbage in an unlim format. ESPECIALLY against IshTear. Your opponent is going full combo before Azathoth’s MATERIALS can hit the board, and then when you pop their field they combo again. And even outside of the IshTear match, this format would 110% have significantly stronger and more reliable combos than an Elder/Outer/Old Entity line.
@@WolfPackAlpha-sn2sw Yeah I mean thats not what azathoth would be used for, but it is a pretty decent enboard piece any 2 lvl 4s can just make ptolemaeus which becomes an azathoth on the opponents turn. Its like the main enboard piece of zoo and probably a couple of other things, the card is a bit fragile, but still very strong
Full power Kashtira is the second strongest deck and Infernoble snake eyes is the third best based on the last unbanned tournament in Japan which had 14 tear tops and 4 kash tops with 1 snake eyes infernoble top lol
If you could link where you saw that I would really appreciate it. It’d be so nice to see/read how that went down lol
Eric Theodore Cartman.
Obviously the 2nd best deck is a deck that hasn't been tested. Primite Ishizu Paleo.
Plants with Dandylion.
Only if the plant cult pilots it.
The thing is that Dandylion isn't as good in Plants as you would really assume, simply because Plants aren't really Synchro summoning, and it's not like we can't get enough link material, the issue is that we get infinite material and only 15 extra deck cards to make with said material. Uninterrupted, I'm frequently ending my turn with 0 cards in Extra.
It has to be mystic mine stun surely...
Wtffff I never even noticed the face on shockmaster! Creeeeepy!
goated reaction content
Look I know I’m not good at the game, but I’m also not really bad, because I can beat striker.
I play branded, which is accepted to be better than striker, but those stupid spell cards always screw me over
@@Sky_The_Dragon hey man, shark canon and widow anchor are mad annoying
@@plabcentral630 dude for real. SS just has infinite spells that can do literally anything. It feels like you're going up against someone with literal plot armor
@@Sky_The_Dragon you just gotta get rid of thier all thier rays, they need to be banished z if your deck plates shifter, your good.
@@plabcentral630 I don't like shifter, I don't play toxic cards really
What about true kings/dracoslayers? Master piece at 3 with all them hand traps
i feel like its so easy to play an out to that
@@jordandouglas5659 masterpiece didn't protect against ftk. I don't think many handtrap affect that much in no banlist tournament.
I really think the only great hand trap is shifter and droll, and idk the name hand trap that gave you LP every time your opp SS.
@@muhammadaidil640 dont forget you can have maxx c, or charmies, drawing into other handtraps tho, which could absolutely stop some of the ftks. i think jesse was prolly right that the format would be dominated by decks that run insane hand trap counts and tear, just to beat the ftks
When MBT and others have tried doing no or fewer banlist tournaments you really don't see Masterpiece at 3 much at least pre the charmies because it's a brick if you don't have the cards to summon it so you really want just playing like two of it.
really big of my guy jesse to not ban that dragon link bozo
Something similar to adventure rose tenyi in md would probably be best deck. Spam halqdon/tomahawk from everything
Zoodics are probably one of the best decks ever that people don't fully understand how insane they are. Obviously, it's compact, but the endboards is produces are nothing to scoff at.
The rank 4 pool is arguably the most powerful collection of cards in the game, and Zoodiacs can make pretty much all of them more efficiently than any other deck using things like Ratpier's non OPT E-Tele. Shock Master, Dweller, Bagooska, Ptolmaes into Azathot, are all available, and it can reach any of these multiple times with a very small engine. I've seen Shock Master, Azathot, Dweller with a mere 15 zoodiac cards and the rest non-engine.
It is absolutely dragon link, dragon link is so absolutely ridiculous and crazy. Eclipse wyvern and black metal are just insanely plus and can summon any dragons in the game
The real reason Dragon Link is the top deck in No Banlist Format is because they have Victory Dragon. They have to win just half as many games as any other deck.
You are smoking crack if you think Dragon Link is even in the same ballpark as Ishizu Tear in an unlimited format with Painful Choice and Graceful Charity.
The funnier part is that (i think, imho) Jesse missed that most MBT's Twitter follower are Jank enthusiast and meta-hater. Ofc they can't saw a solid perception about Meta decks. Few of them are just sarcastic or typing bits.
There's no decks can't close to Snake eye, zoo, or mystic mine for 2nd place best deck of all time.
If soyral wa splayable im tcg id go comtrol foshure
Adamancipator in an unlimited format would be insane. I’m surprised it was mentioned so little
Ishizu Adamancipator was my favorite deck when it was meta in MD.
They can easily deck out the opponents if you get maxx c'ed, also Ishizu can be banished for Block Dragon
I yearn for the day that tear is power crept and gets some things off the banlist
“Some men just want to watch the world Burn”