Right, so Sideways made a (currently unlisted) video on the subject himself: th-cam.com/video/MUOVZzSzzbY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jRqPeMYpYvQJdsdK A few thoughts: 1. Sideways mentions the context of his own DM conversations with Adam and how that impacted his response to the situation - I can't evaluate those obviously, but it is fair to say that this is a piece of context which could help explain some of his frustrations. No denying it. 2. About the Coco video: Sideways uses screenshots and video clips that showcase Neely using the same three sources I talked about in this video. He also uses clips of Neely and himself talking about similar ideas from similar sources and claims that Neely gets a fact wrong at one point, maybe because he's intentionally changing words around like the people in the hbomberguy video (paraphrasing that last bit). It doesn't make this case any more compelling and doesn't acknowledge how commonplace those sources are, or how a video that doesn't mention Coco once is supposed to have ripped it off. 3. About the keys/languages thing: Sideways repeats the same arguments that he and Sarah had used before and plays a clip from a TikTok Sarah made on the subject. He does not address the comments about how commonplace that analogy is despite his Twitter mentions being filled with people saying as much. I also find it interesting that he claims the academics who he's talked to have recommended that he take legal action, when probably 90% of the academic publicly commenting on the situation are saying that he doesn't have a case at all. It's not our place to invalidate Sideways' frustration - his feelings are his feelings, it is what it is - and, between his suggestive comments about making his response video public and hinting at sharing the DM conversations between him and Adam, this doesn't feel like justice; this feels like revenge/tearing down Adam. And if I don't think the facts are on your side, I'm not about to support that. (Also, a TH-cam channel with almost a million subs trying to paint this as a David vs. Goliath story where Adam is taking advantage of his higher follower count feels a bit absurd, but that's an aside). What a shame.
I don't know about you, but my faith in Sideways' objective perspective of the situation was damaged quite heavily the moment he claimed academics were on his side, while showing a tweet by Frank Lehman saying it was "most likely accidental".
Can't tell if I'm just being toxic here but this post comes off as weirdly passive-aggressive despite all of the unnecessary prefacing about how "all feelings are valid, &c., &c.". Yeah sure, we don't need to crucify him but we need to call a spade a spade: Sideways is making a fool of himself (and by extension, his gf) trying to drag Neely through the mud because he thinks now is his moment to "expose" him for something he already apologized for. It's really cynical, calculated, and malicious behaviour based off of a minor wrong which he's clearly blown up in his mind to be this massive unforgivable betrayal by a former friend. This is classic unhinged behaviour. He himself must know this, judging by how he's unlisted this video and avoids direct criticism wherever it presents itself so that he can hold on to this narrative.
@@RuthvenMurgatroydI agree that this video tiptoed around and went into excruciating detail drawn out over a long time to reach an obvious conclusions. could have just said “non musician gf makes clueless plagiarism accusations creating needless drama”. If anyone is invalidating feelings it’s for the purpose of impartial judgement, not out of toxicity.
The tone of the video and this post is passive because I'm not going to ascribe intentions to anyone's behavior if I don't know for sure what's going on and I am not going to call him or his partner "unhinged" for similar reasons. The wording used in this post was stronger than that in the video because it represents by far the biggest example of Sideways' feelings crossing over into actions. His partner's past tweets are not likely to move the meter much on people's perception of Neely, but this video certainly could (and has in at least a few cases). Again, he can feel whatever he wants because he's entitled to it and I'm not going to tell him "you're not allowed to feel frustrated by any of this", but if it crosses over into action or threats ("Adam Neely is turbo-fucked"? really?), that's a bridge too far and it's going to get called out.
Sarah contacted me a while back, she basically told me that my brief reference of Sideways in my 4 chord loops video was instrumental in his mental breakdown and hiatus, gave me the whole spiel about how I should care more about mental health, etc. It was terribly anxiety inducing, the best possible outcome would be finding out Sarah exaggerated my role, because Sideways never mentioned it himself to my knowledge, (although he has me blocked on twitter.) The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, he has some issues regarding his place online and his partner is exacerbating them.
Thank you for sharing that. No matter who it comes from, there certainly seems to be a level of insecurity and anxiety inside that whole situation which is very unfortunate, and I'm sorry that it was projected onto you.
Hang on, you mean the joke at 0:54? That harmless, blink-and-you'll-miss-it playful jab? Even if that truly was a cause for his mental breakdown (no judgement there), that's an insane thing to lay at your feet, as if you should've known better.
I find it genuinely surreal and deeply worrying that a guy who even now boasts nearly ten times as many subscribers as you on this platform would be so wildly insecure as to take a snarky jab at a snobby sentiment in one of his videos so deeply personally that he would *stop making videos entirely.* Whether we take this at face value or treat it as exaggeration or even outright fabrication-and I do prefer to take people's words and actions in good faith-this situation does not read as anything resembling healthy or good.
If that little 2 second jab poking fun at Sideways was that huge of a deal, perhaps being a public online content creator just doesn't suit him. And if he clicked off your video in the first minute because of that, then he really missed a great video essay 😓
Using the same sources, and citing them properly, is not plagiarism. If Neely was quoting Sideways verbatim, or structuring these topics in the exact same way, then there'd be a case here, but simply using the same sources? Wtf? Anyone whose ever written a university research paper and spent a lot of time researching a particular topic knows that people will cite and quote similar sources quite a bit. This seems so silly and a far reach from what hbomberguy was getting at in his video.
Agree. If only one person was allowed to cite a source there wouldn’t be very many papers out there in any field. To further your point, unless Sideways arrived at some novel conclusion or proof, and Neely echoed it without reference, there is nothing to plagiarize.
And ... Adam is NOT some rando undergraduate. He has a large body of work consisting (I assume) of original content. So these two really very minor incidents don't really register. In this age of reaction videos, etc., it's absurd to get worked up about something like this. And I say that as someone who makes most of his money from royalties on my written work. Intellectual property is my life.
Meanwhile in the science youtuber space, folks call this sort of thing "getting Derek'd" and laugh it off. Except the classic "Getting Derek'd" example is when you have a video planned and someone (typically Derek from Veritassium, hence the name of the phenomenon) releases a video on the exact same topic a couple days before you get yours done. Anyway, an overlap of topics is not plagiarism, using 3 of the same sources is not plagiarism, and anyone who thinks it is should not be making content on the internet.
Having watched all the videos before I knew anything about this controversy... This seems really stupid. For the first videos: It's just not plagiarism. Even in the case Adam saw that video and wanted to do something similar, the point of each video and script aren't nearly close enough to cry plagiarism. They share a common quote from a 3rd party source, and use the same, extremely popular reference video. Adam wasn't taking eyes away from Sideways audience, they weren't in competition, so there is really no problem whatsoever. For the second: I got taught the same metaphor when I studied music at by a friend who studied jazz back when I was studying music. I live in the UK so instead of Spanish and Portuguese, I was taught German and Dutch (because I was taught German in school), but in the US you guys learn Spanish, so it makes sense they use the same reference. It's just silly... At the end of the day it just feels like Sideways is bitter over nothing, it's truly a shame.
I really miss Sideways. Some of the best videos on TH-cam. I reference certain ones constantly and I got so many friends to watch those videos who would never sit through a Neely video. I really respect Sideways, and I feel like I understand parts of his motivations, but I strongly feel like he's wrong here. What happened is not plagiarism, and we shouldn't dilute the term by calling everyone who's inspired by an idea or concept a plagiarist. The examples Hbomberguy pointed out in his video were wholesale cut-and-paste plagiarism. They took other people's words, giant sections of original works, and passed them off as their own words. Neely could have possibly waited a bit longer to cover a similar topic, and given Sideways a shoutout in the video if Neely watched them, but I don't think it's unethical that he didn't do those things.
God do i hate it when youtubers I LOVE watching end up quitting/being questionable in general. I knew Sideways quit a while ago, figured it was for some random reason, not this.
This seems like a case of "Neely saw the Sideways video and thought he could make a video that used some of the same topics for a different purpose". This is not plagiarism. It's more in the "being inspired by" category. If Sideways is peeved by this kind of stuff, it feels to me like a kind of childish ego thing, and certainly not comparable to the kind of examples Hbomber's video was highlighting.
I agree citing all sources and sources of inspiration is always preferable. If Neely saw the Sideways video beforehand (likely), you could call omitting to mention it a mistake in judgement. Or that he forgot. But in any case, he apologized to Sideways (seemingly several times) and even took the video down after getting blocked by the guy on social media. And Mr Sideways still hasn't let it go? Over 5 years later?? The guy has issues.
@@HawkOfGP I agree that sideways is more sensitive to this stuff than he should be, but I read his (public, not gated) post on Patreon, and the Neely stuff doesn't seem to be his major concern. He's had academic work of his plagiarized verbatim before and been treated like shit by academia. It didn't seem like this Neely thing was the primary concern at least at the time he wrote that post
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@@tremolo2109 being inspired by something and using it as a source is not the same thing
@ sure, but pure inspiration is just "this person talked about something in a way that inspired me to talk about something else." If you're talking about some of the same things, it becomes a situation where a citation is appropriate. That way, you're keeping people in the conversation and making a more robust environment for these essays. If you first heard something from the person "inspiring" you, you should cite them when you talk about that thing. Again, I don't think this Neely thing is even that big of a thing for sideways individually. I'm just talking about this in a general way. I guess "inspiration" is usually an idea associated with creative pursuits. I think in some cases with video essays, people are referring to something more like "teaching." Sideways has inspired people to think about music and its place in media, people can take that inspiration and go crazy with it. Sideways has taught people things they didn't know about the industry, they should cite him if they're passing on that information.
The recent Hbomberguy video is about people presenting material as their own documentarian work that was in fact lifted, and also about people thinking all they have to do is say a name somewhere and then there's an open buffet on those sources. This situation involves Sideways taking finders-keepers possession of material that is not theirs and then wanting to punish other people as if that information was created by them. Of course, if someone uses the same quoted material and accompanies it with the same observations then they might be stealing your observations, but that's not distinct here. No sympathy for Sideways.
Unintentional copying does happen. It's more common than people think. I know Trent Reznor admitted to unintentionally copying the melody to an obscure David Bowie song. Both men openly joked about the fact and were very friendly about it. I think the fact he took it down and credited the original video speaks volumes. Plagiarists don't usually admit to fault. They double down and deny.
It just seems odd that there has only been one person (as far as i've heard) to accuse him of plagiarism. Why would someone only do it once, well into their career?
Familiar with some of Adam Neeley's content but not this particular conflict. The algorithm presented Music Deep Dive to me for the first time today. I do respect and appreciate the calm and considerate manner this topic is discussed in this MDD video. Great audio quality too. Thanks MDD for your contribution here and every TH-camr's content on music and music theory. This music theory layman is enriched by you all.
The video title alarmed me, but now I’m just left wondering why Sideways is acting in the way that he is. If Adam has a pattern of plagiarism, that’s really serious and should be called out, but if it’s just one guy making two accusations, and one of them is a clip of an interview making a common point, I’m left feeling like there’s some other intention going on.
When you're subbed to enough youtubers within a single topic of interest, seeing two creators releasing videos on the same topic at the same time is not a rare occurrence at all. I see it more than 10 times a year.
Yeah... when I saw the title I thought one or both of them had gone full milkshake duck, but it just seems like Sideways is going through some stuff in public. Too bad, I like his work (and Adam's, of course)
Honestly, I really didn't think Sideways's partner put him in a good light. I think there are tons of people in the TH-cam sphere, who deserve to be challenged, and will be, thanks to Hbombs video. But the idea that someones recount of theory, or similar sources in a video that still ultimately goes to different places, IS NOT PLAGERISM. It feels like they took it to heart, and felt like the video Sideways made was being overshadowed by a bigger youtuber covering a similar topic, and overlapping in certain examples, and got upset. And then decided to use that to scrutinize the character of Adam Neely, and make up baseless accusations and rationalizations for why he did this, or that. And then use all of those baseless accusations to bolster the point over and over again, that Adam did Sideways dirty. I feel bad for Sideways, because clearly he is hurt, and it has affected him greatly. But he and his partner aren't really making as many concrete points as they think. It's not cut and dry. It's also been 5 years, in which nothing further has been pushed against Adam. And as for Vox, if he really did steal from Sideways, why would he do it AGAIN!? It's cuz he didn't.
There are whole fields of study based on the neuroscience of music. When a video on music and memory goes viral, people will talk about it. That doesn't make it plagiarism
i see how it can be immensely frustrating to watch a video of another creator in that fairly narrow niche you are in and it appears to rip off some of your hard work; especially when your lifelihood is tied to your content. problem is that perception is one thing, reality something completely different, and the best thing we can obtain are reasonable assumptions on reality which is in effect a third thing. your breakdown was really comprehensive and i appreciate how you went out of your way to not put blame on Sideways or his partner.
I feel for Sideways, but he's pretty wrong. I wish he could be persuaded of that enough, and in a way that will help him come back, because I really liked his content too also I saw Nate's video, I'm an Adam Neely fan but I wanted to be informed, and I too felt it was a guy ranting about his very weak opinions and baseless accusations
great video. concise and well-spoken. i've been a long-time fan of both channels and i have to agree that, while i miss sideways' content and feel sympathy for him, this is whole conversation seems pedantic. adam and sideways have done a podcast-style discussion together in the past so clearly there is an open line of communication there. this a conversation that could've been handled privately and could have resulted in a much more productive outcome. still rooting for both of them and i hope that they continue to make high-level content in the world of music theory, even if it means they choose not to cross paths in the future.
Is unfortunate. That sideways felt that way, because I really liked the channel. I watched both channels, I’m sure a lot of people watch both channels since there aren’t that many really great music video essayists. It’s clearly never going to be plagiarism when efforts are made into two very different videos. Immediately one based on the movie, and one that is standalone is already 50% of a difference three out of 10 sources are the same, there’s another 25% difference. And that alone, without even going to further differences is enough to reasonably know that probable inspiration, is the link at best. Clearly someone like Adam neely wouldn’t be trying to hurt sideways, or steel sideways work, even if they were exactly the same in their sources, Adam Neely would have read those sources, and did the work, and come to a similar conclusion. I also did a paper in 2016 for school that was really similar to both and I hadn’t seen those videos that time. Especially when you’re doing schoolwork around other people on similar topics, there’s literally only so many sources. And if you want to be “accurate”, you will both find the same sources because they’re the prominent, and accurate sources. There’s just no way around that. In that same year of 2016 for me, I also developed my own theories around music being just like language, and making a French and Spanish comparison. It’s definitely not something that you would lay claim to, I definitely wouldn’t claim either person were the source of the original idea. I would love if sideways started making videos again, and I personally love when all of my favourite music theory channels cover the same topic, because I want to hear different perspectives. I always laughed when 12. Tone was like Adam Neely made a video, now I am making the same video, but I think Adam Neely had a different perspective than I did. I love that kind of video.
So it is confirmed that Sideways has stopped making videos. It’s pretty sad tbh, Sideways was one of my favorite channels, I’ve grown to like him more than Adam Neely. I hope that since it seems there’s not much evidence to prove his point, Sideways won’t ruin his career by coming back and making a frantic video about it like other TH-camrs have done this year (ahem, iiluminaughtii, ahem). Unfortunately, we’re still in 2023, so it still might happen.
I genuinley think that in the long run, the hbomberguy video will end up doing more harm than good. Not becasue of the video, but because of disgruntled creators who now feel embolded to make these outrageous claims and allegations based on nothing but feelings. Sideways evidently feels like hes been plagirised, but that doesn't make it legitimate. Unfortunately in this day and age, espeically on twitter, all it takes is a whisper of an allegation of wrongdoing for peoole to start taking them seriously and tearing down creators without taking the time and considerations that you make here.
Speaking of Sideways accusing others of plagiarism, I remembered the time when he and the channel PBS digital studio's Sound Field released videos on the same topic. Okay, it might have not been him per se, but I remember that particular video by Sound Field got flooded by Sideways' subscribers accusing them of plagiarism. Needless to say that sometimes, parallel creation happens (that is the moment when two or more creators create things that are similar at the same time, _independently_ of each other), and add that to one more confounding factor in the intricacy of accusing someone of plagiarism.
Thank you for clearing some of the confusion up, I agree generally with your assessment on the situation, and was wondering what happened to sideways. I usually stay out of these but seeing their names involved in some pointless drama peaked my interest.
extremely well said. thank you for sharing your opinion, as this is a sphere of the internet dear to me as well, so i appreciate hearing some perspective from someone with skin in the game, so to speak. again, very well articulated and thanks for posting
I agree with the general consensus in the comments. To me, If this connection between sideways, and Adam Neely is plagiarism, then the term has become meaningless. It might be better to talk about levels of borrowing. Here I would ask what is the level “borrowing”. Is the borrowing done continuously throughout the video? is the borrowing barely concealed paraphrasing? Is the overall structure of the video identical, in terms of argumentation and evidence? Was the borrowing cited clearly? Are there any original elements in the second video? Hbomberguy Depicts egregious examples of plagiarism with laughably altered paraphrases. The example of the gamer guy is clearly a slam dunk plagiarism verdict. Maybe Neely’s video is merely “unoriginal” and rehashes the same material in his own manner. I wouldn’t call that plagiarism it I would just call it lazy and unworthy of him. Note: I haven’t seen either video. At one point musicdeepdive talks about a quote from a famous book used in both videos. is that really suspicious? If the quite is that famous and they are making the same point then Neely is correct to quote the original; I wouldn’t reference sideways unless I was adding or modifying his argument. That’s doing criticism … I won’t comment on what motivates sideways, But perhaps, if he kept his accusations to lazy lazy borrowing we wouldn’t be talking about this at all.
Thank you for this video and your perspective. Could we get that XLR cable on your microphone supported by, perhaps, resting it along one of the adjustable tightening screws for the boom arm? I feel as though someone has placed a cup full of liquid near the edge of a table and it’s about to fall.
@@argusfleibeit1165not concerned with the stand at all. Cable management, however, is certainly a passion of mine. I’ll avoid going into detail, but musicians, streamers, internet enjoyers etc are inherently bound by the cables required to transmit our intent into consumable media. This is an inconvenient necessity at best, even in these modern times. In this video, our subject takes up ~1/8th of the frame. This is not ideal, but obviously easily forgiven. The microphone stand is placed out of frame and utilizes a boom mechanism to reach a suitable distance from our source. The height and position of the mic, though, is questionable. ~1/3rd of the frame serves only to feature said microphone and its components, including the XLR cable due to its dangling nature. Not only will this result in unnecessary wear to the cable and pins over time, it also weighs down the rear end of the microphone. Thusly it must then adhere to the “equal and opposite” law of physics, requiring more adjustment to maintain its already-unsteady, outstretched posture. This means the stand is working double-duty and its joints end up paying the price. The wear on the tightening screws/hardware alone will decrease the product’s lifespan by as much as 47%. So, not only would running the cable along the boom arm negate the pitfalls of danglification, it would also insure the cable is out of the way. I guarantee you before and after this video, the subject rolled over the cable in question, resulting in a number of frivolities I’m sure we’re all familiar with! One who cares for fuzzy friends of the domestic variety may relate to the, albeit unintended, results of their…unpredictable behavior. The special awareness of a canine is frequently blind to obstacles, especially when “zoomies” mode is engaged. When feline curiosity inspires playful experimentation, it’s often at our expense. Destruction and chaos is second nature to the wild animal residing within them. Which brings us back to the subjective observation I expressed in my initial comment. After all, what is more tempting to a cat than a glass of water at the edge of a table? In conclusion, what I hope to illustrate is that PTSD exists even in the mundane. So forgive me if my suggestion seems trite or steeped in pomposity. This couldn’t be further from the truth, as I only hope to spare others minor inconveniences and encourage erring on the side of caution regarding proper cable management. To help and to heal. To love and to hold. To lady to rest. This is how babby is formed. God bless America, I hope your preferred Holiday celebrations are warm and bright, surrounded by those you love. Lord, we ask You to bring peace, good tidings, and cheer to whom I am replying. Afford them the Light with which to see a clear path forward. Bathed in the light of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. We relinquish the sacred Trust (or #Trussy on TikTok) to keep our hearts open for Your Plan. To keep us from harm and deliver us from evil. It is within the blood of Christ and his naked body, we Come. Please, oh Heavenly Father, we ask to absolve us of our past sins (poor cable management). Praise be to You, Oh God, it is in Your Name we Pray. Amen.
@@argusfleibeit1165 *Think again, pal.* As you can probably imagine, a sizable portion of the viewing audience for this particular video is made up of musicians, composers, and acoustic technicians, all of whom handle expensive instruments, reproduction-, amplification-, and recording equipment on a regular basis. I too noticed the undesirable strain being placed on the XLR connector by the weight of the mic cable, and it gives me the heebies-like a guitar perched on the lip of a guitar stand rather than comfortably nestled in its grasp. If you are not overcome by the impulse to reach out and fix something like that, you are 100% not a working musician. *As an aside,* this is why most podcasters use something like a Shure SM7B, which offsets the XLR connector in a separate housing moulded into the stand adapter so the the cable can be cleanly routed along the boom arm using the included velcro straps. That's right, they're included by the manufacturer because proper cable management is industry standard practice, you presumptuous slob. *Of course, the problem* with moving the connector away from the base of the microphone is that when it is handheld, you tend to grasp it at the point at which it would otherwise be mounted, which exactly where the XLR coupling is located. It makes watching the Football Daily podcast a painful experience-a complaint in which I am not alone at having directed toward the uploaders.
never heard of Sideways so can't comment on him but I can say Neely clearly did right with his citations because I bought the book (this is your brain on music) immediately after watching his video.
Influencers shouldn't be surprised when, you know, they influence people. Especially in the music sphere. That's almost all music is really. A continuum.
I left essentially the same thoughts on the whole circle of fifths thing as a comment on a TH-cam channel covering this a few months ago and my stance hasn't changed. I learned now his partner has a online presence, but that's really the only new thing I didn't know about this situation.
Alex, interesting video. I don't know of Sideways and have only seen a few of Adam's videos. I doubt Adam intentionally copied another TH-camr's content. It may be that he saw Sideways' video (or one of his commenters) and decided to make his own video on the subject. Googling the subject would likely return similar results for references. The reference to Spanish and Portuguese would be my first choice. There are plenty of examples, though only people familiar with those languages would understand. I haven't seen the videos personally, so I limit my discussion to generalities. There have been several occasions where my coworkers have taken my work and put their name on it. That felt bad, but I didn't lose a lot of sleep over it. Which brings up the real issue... I feel bad for Sideways that a perceived slight to him has ruined his life. There are way deeper problems than someone copying his content. I do hope he gets the help he needs and returns to TH-cam, if that's what he wants to do. Thanks for the video!
…because “the relationship between Danish and Norwegian” would be lost on an American audience… Thanks for making a calm and sober and empathetic video. Some of us have a background in music theory that includes rigorous college instruction, and that can make it difficult to be kind and understanding to people whose opinions are not based upon the same degree of study. What seems novel to some is frequently old news to others. I am often surprised at how unoriginal I am, but that experience over the years has taught me humility rather than defensiveness.
I really enjoy Sideways videos, but as with a lot of claims of "plagiarism", it seems very overblown. Your Movie Sucks did a great video on the Kimba the White Lion and Lion King plagiarism claims that showcased how, if two works have similar overlapping ideas (like a story about a lion in Africa), there is going to be a lot of overlapping concepts that appear in both works that are both too vague to really claim as stolen and easy to selectively edit in a video to appear much more clear-cut than they are. The reality is that Sideways' videos are overwhelmingly repetitive and not that deep. He has some videos that get REALLY deep into music theory, but many of them repeat the same basics over and over, and it's very likely that other music theory essayists (especially ones that create new videos frequently and have a lot of visibility, like Neely) will probably cover those same basics. The Spanish/Portuguese comparison is a little on-the-nose (I would probably say Spanish/Italian if I was comparing similar but distinct languages, personally), but it wouldn't be the first time that Vox has stolen content from independent creators, so I think it's on them more than Neely, in that situation. I can understand why Sideways is upset, he wants to make good, unique content. It's very common for artists (which, yes, I'm calling video essayists artists) to think that their work only has value if it's unique and original. The reality, in my opinion, is that what makes a piece of art interesting is YOUR personal perspective on it and how you approach it. A thousand people could make a video from the same materials and come up with a thousand different, unique, interesting videos from it. If you really think your value is in breaking the news on something like the psychology of music, I can understand why it would upset you, but also that's not why people watch video essays. They watch them for your personal take on the topic. Three big youtubers I follow all did videos on similar topics recently (Hbomberguy and Philosophytube on plagiarism, and ToddintheShadows on James Somerton [the main topic of Hbomb's video]), and I watched all three. I didn't think "well I've seen one person talk about it, done with that topic forever". I thought "oh cool, let's hear what they all have to say". If someone directly copies your work nearly word-for-word, like most of the people Hbomb called out, that's no good, but if somebody just mentions a similar idea to what you posited, that's really not a big deal.
I have a masters in music comp and I’ve never heard the modulation - language comparison. But one comparison does not plagiarism make. Also, I could easily see many educators coming up with the analogy on their own. This REALLY sucks for both of these creators and I hope that egos can be shed and everyone can achieve a chill life.
Sideways thinks that Toby Fox did a terrible thing by self-plagiarizing Megalovania. His philosophy of plagiarism is extremely strict and not something I understand at all. He comes across as insecure about his own success, which feels silly considering he was extremely successful.
@@APaleDot self-plagiarism is actually a thing but I don't think it applies to this situation. In Academia, you have to cite ALL of your sources, which includes yourself. If you are writing a paper and want to use a previous piece of research you've done, you still need to properly cite that source. It makes sense in academia because you want to be able to trace each individual piece of information. It's not just about giving proper credit, it's about letting people critique your work which includes showing where you got your information. Self-plagiarism is more of a clerical error than an ethical problem.
Man, I was just thinking "haven't seen a Sideways video in a long time, wonder what's up with that?" Sucks that this is what's up with that. I think something that's getting lost in the post-Hbomb discourse is that the people he talks about, even if they weren't plagiarists, would still be lazy content farmers with no demonstrated expertise or even interest in their subjects. Adam Neely is a Berklee-educated professional jazz musician. That doesn't mean he can't be a hack TH-camr-plenty of experts and professionals are terrible at communicating artfully about their subject-but it's absolutely context that needs to be considered when judging the veracity of these claims. As you point out, the Spanish/Portugal thing might seem damning in a vacuum, but in the context of the field they both work in seems to be an extremely plausible coincidence. And I mean, I play music as a hobby and the last time I studied music theory academically was in high school, but I've got a copy of This is Your Brain on Music. It's a very popular book. It sounds like this is a situation of one person reacting aggressively to a perceived offense, the other person (and here I'm speculating about the content of these rumored DMs) reacting aggressively to that reaction, and then it just escalates from their with both parties feeling defensives and digging deeper into their trenches. I appreciate Sideways' videos and, even if he came at Neely maybe more aggressively than was justified, it sucks if Neely treated him poorly and Sideways didn't feel heard and respected. But it also seems pretty clear that Neely is not in the wrong here, creatively. At this point it seems like Sideways is so locked into his position that any criticism of him is just going to feel like part of the pile-on though, and I suspect there's not going to be any good resolution to this. Anyway, I really appreciate your even-handed approach in this video. Between that and the 22, a Million art on the wall you've earned yourself a new subscriber.
Wild to have this type of dispute in the context of music theory. Music has a long, illustrious history of songwriters copping from each other, putting familiar melody lines in a new context. Or even in the same key. Check out Mozart's Misericordias Domini K. 222 about a minute in, and tell me what you hear.
I am very much a fan of both creators but it does feel like Sideways is in need of a friend who will help him negotiate his way forward rather than feeding a spiral that is clearly making him very unhappy. He is looking to be made whole in a way that simply will not happen and banging his head against a wall will only hurt him and erode the ground beneath him. I can understand how there may be disagreements about the nuance of the allegations (and that, in itself, must be grating on people on both sides) but even if he was absolutely justified, he has achieved all that he can achieve from this and he basically achived that a while ago.
Sometimes educating a stupid person doesn't make them smarter, just gives them tools that they will use to hide their stupidity. Attacking youtubers for copying each other at the slightest sight of similarity in their content has been a thing forever. Now the idiots who did that simply call it plagiarism instead of "ripping someone off" and know where to look for more crumbs of weak evidence to grasp onto.
I agree with just about everything you have to say here, but I’m not sure you even need to get that deep into the weeds. Material reproduced for the purposes of education is considered fair use in the United States. Unless I just totally misunderstand copyright law (which is a real possibility) then I don’t think Adam is in the wrong even if he did directly copy that analogy.
The thing I wish I could get Sideways to understand is citations and vague concepts for videos are not protected. If two people do videos on the construction of two different buildings they'll likely have some overlap on citations and concepts. Any video concept that could be made has likely been made already by a TH-camr with 5 subscribers. As for the circle of fifts, in high school (a decade ago) the person who taught me music theory used the EXACT same analogy, down to using Spanish and Portuguese.
So I guess plagiarism will now be the buzzword of the year after that hbomber video? Everyone itching to call people out because the drama was fun, but it doesn’t look like Neely plagiarised anything.
Hi. I’ve become recently interested in composing music. I’ve learned about the chord wheel. Could I ask some basic questions? When writing a song, would you stick to the chords/notes in that section of the wheel linked with the key that your song is in?
Even if the analogy was completly new thing sideways came up with, it would at most be impolite to not mention him. There is nothing wrong with using someone elses Analogy, just like one teacher coming up with a good explenation, doesn't mean no one else can use that explanation.
The point is that the analogy is not his in the first place. It’s like how every drum teacher ever teaches traditional grip by saying “now rotate your arm as though you were turning a door handle” or when clarinet players get told to imagine trying to blow a piece of popcorn from between their teeth to simulate the motion of tonguing. These are just concepts that are directly adjacent and thus get used frequently, it’s more likely both of them are directly citing the person who taught them theory, as would I be if I were to use that analogy, because it’s still used in a classroom setting to this day
I remember a situation with CGP Gray and VSauce3. Both made a video about teleportation more or less at the same time. CGP dropped it first and the guy from VSauce3 was stumped about if he should upload his video since it was basically the same video with the same points. Dunno if this is a similar situation. Oh and CGP encouraged VS3 to upload it and was a bit apologetic, I think the exchange is still on YT.
yea this happens all the time, Dan Olson of folding ideas mentions this at the start of his video on flat earth which was put on hold because of hbomberguy's old flat earth (I'd say that hold benefitted Olson because his video is scarily predictive of January 6 months before it happened)
They both deal with educational content. Imagine one math teacher annoyed by another peer talking about the same subject lol. Sideways seems to want a monopoly on certain subjects
Citing some of the same sources in discussing a completely different subject is not even close to plagiarism, what the hell is sideways talking about? It honestly feels to me like sideways might be projecting, and disappeared to keep from self-destructing the same way iiluminaughtii did. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me. In other words, "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"
As with almost all public discussions of plagiarism, this one largely misses the boat. Plagiarism is a crime -- a form of theft -- and as such has centuries of legal practice providing a precise definition of what it is. Simply put: plagiarism involves arrangements of words, and little else. Ideas and sources are public domain and cannot be plagiarized. (Otherwise, every writer in the world would be paying off the Shakespeare estate.) If Sideways had said something like "My dog plays better piano than your dog," and Neely had said "My dog [or cat] plays better piano [or clavichord] than you your dog," that would plagiarism. But quoting the same source simply does not cut it -- and that goes double for the circle of 5ths. I use that all the time. Am I required to apologize to Sideways, or Guitar Zombie, or David Bennett, or any of the hundreds of other TH-camrs who have covered it? Alex here actually stumbles into this, but then immediately gets up, brushes himself off, and runs away when he notes that "This is Your Brain on Music" is widely known and referred to among musicians and listeners. Sideways did not get a copyright on that book simply by quoting it in his video. Neely is free to quote from it any way he wants. The notion that ideas can be plagiarized is a dangerous error. A loose accusation --like this one -- can destroy lives and ruin livelihoods. Anyone choosing to discuss the topic needs to familiarize himself with the actual concepts before leaping in. Anything less is irresponsible and reckless. (I'll add here that legal definitions have been loosened in recent cases -- see the Jefferson/Hemmings playwright case some years back -- but none of these decisions has become casebook law and are not used as precedents.) Adam Neely has his flaws. I find his virtue-posturing wokism utterly grating (He's the type who can find racism in the arrangement of black and white piano keys). But he's not a plagiarist. As for Sideways -- cracking up over something like this suggests far more serious issues at play. I suggest counseling and staying away from the Internet.
What’s the point of citing your sources if not for others to look up and research on their own? Lmao I’ve never heard of Sideways but if another TH-camr making a similar video to yours causes you to just stop making videos, it probably wasn’t the right hobby for them anyway.
I haven't checked out either video, but it's well known that music affects and accesses areas of the brain in strange ways. I learned about this in 2009 in a high school psychology class. Anybody who claims ownership of this idea is not being honest with themselves. This argument is nonsense.
Point 2 seems like good practice. You should cite primary sources, not the secondary source. He could have mentioned that sideways is also of his opinion... but why should he have.
Since when is citing the same source and using the common analogies considered plagiarism? Maybe in You Tube's Court of Public Opinion. It's not like Sideways video essays were groundbreaking. Nether Sideways' nor Adams Neely's videos were the first to address these subjects. Music therapy has been around since the 18th century. When my father was in hospice my sister and I played music he had enjoyed throughout his life. This controversy reminds me of Illuminati 's plagiarism accusations against Legal Eagle. Sideways accusations of plagiarism would make a good segment for "Butthurt Of The Week" on Glenn Fricker's Spectre Sound Studios channel.
Wow, I like both of those creators a lot so it's disappointing that all that happened. My first thought is that creators like Sideways deconstruct songs that are known to millions right off the bat. Just having famous song or artist names in your title can get you millions of clicks. So it's just kind of ironic that he would accuse somebody of plagiarizing his ideas.
Wow, I've lost a lot of respect for Sideways. Plagiarism is a serious accusation. I hope his mental health improves so he can gain a little perspective on the kind of damage he's doing and make amends.
The idea that two pieces of work sharing sources is plagiarism is so weird to me. As a college student there has been so many times when peers and me have shared sources and ideas because if we read a book or article and think “this text explains something really well and gives good reasoning” then we’ll bring it up to each other. I’ve had friends ask me about recording bass guitar and if I had sources for their work and I happily gave them several sources explaining the basics of mic placement etc. for recording bass guitar. In all the petty arguments us students have I’ve never heard people fight over a source. It just feels childish especially considering Adam was using notes and improvising with academic vocabulary like a jazz musician would in the vox video. I feel for Sideways because I do love his videos as much as Neely’s but this is rather immature. I hope Sideways can regain his creative drive though it feels like this scandal is just a deflection from something else he might be dealing with as it has only been mentioned recently with plagiarism being thrown into popular debate. Sideways made a public post on his patreon addressing his inactivity a couple years back and there’s no mention or allusion to plagiarism contributing to his lack of motivation. Hopefully both sides can work this dispute out and I can keep my respect for Sideways’ work.
In Germany Spanish and Portuguese is not used in that way, but if you learned it in your studies it is common place. We might use Dutch and German. Or Italian Slovenian. Polish and any other Slavic language... I understand neely not reacting. Even if you see his point, everything he coul have said makes it worse. Thank you
Amigo, pelo amor. É uma analogia razoável, português e espanhol são mega parecidos com um overlap gigante de vocabulário, estrutura etc. Objetivamente. Tem um sistema que categoriza semelhança e português e espanhol são duas das línguas mais similares que tem, o que não é o caso de chinês e japonês.
Spanish and Portugese are extremely closely related languages in the Romance branch of Indo-European language family, but Japanese and Chinese are completely unrelated (except for some word borrowings) and not from the same language family
Sideways seems like he has some pretty serious mental health issues that go well beyond this situation, that are causing him to behave strangely. And his partner is pouring gas on the fire. That said, I'm also not a fan of Adam Neely, so 🤷♂🍿
I'm trying to find out if Sideways has really been wronged here and it seems like not? The language comparison as well as the overlap of three sources is cause for suspicion, but the differences are just too stark. The big tell to me is that if Adam was plagiarizing Sideways, why wouldn't he just take the Coco framing device? Adam goes kinda whole hog on his usual repetition legitimizes bit. I'm also really wary of Sideways just deciding to quit and specifically blaming Neely. Even if you believe you've been plagiarized, this is a bit of an overreaction, especially since Neely took the video down. It's... I dunno, weaponized victimhood?
Oh, good lord. Unless it's blatantly lifted word for word, you can't call something plagiarism when it's just two people citing similar sources on a similar topic. Sounds like one guy let his channel stagnate and wants to grab views off someone who hasn't.
Not posting videos for two years because you feel someone has used your ideas twice sounds somewhat passive-aggressive. Not posting videos for two years has to have deeper reasons than that, regardless of any impressions that someone might be using your work.
If you're teaching the fundamentals of any craft, especially ones that have existed for hundreds or thousands of years, you don't get to claim plagiarism when someone else does it in a similar way. Period. You owe more to everyone who came before you than anyone owes you. Imagine suing someone over "Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge", or creating internet beef over someone teaching cross-hatching. Some people seriously need to get a life.
Can I just add a couple things? I’m someone who is knowledgeable about music theory and studied music in college but didn’t get a degree, and also studies languages. To my ear - and I’m older so I studied well before you did - hearing “like Spanish and Portuguese” does sound weird from an English-speaker. Spanish and Portuguese are closely related, but while lots of English speakers are familiar with Spanish, very few people are familiar with Portuguese. It’s just not an example many people are going to intuitively understand because most people could not tell you how closely related Spanish and Portuguese actually are. For an English-speaker I would think dialects of English would be more apropos? And is this really a reasonable way to think about it? Languages just don’t relate to each other the way keys do. As both a language nerd and a music nerd I don’t know. I don’t know if it really is as commonly taught that was as you say in schools today, but as someone who didn’t learn that way it definitely sounded weird, and then to hear the same slightly sketchy analogy twice? Someone needs a better analogy. Secondly, the issue is not plagiarism, and I think the folks framing it that way are not helping. It doesn’t have to be plagiarism to be unethical and worthy of social sanction. I don’t really have an opinion here, but I think in small creative fields like this it pays to be super-generous about mentioning people who inspire you. To me the videos seem close enough in time and topic that it’s hard to believe one didn’t inspire the other, and that deserved to be mentioned. It only takes a moment, it makes you look generous which is always desireable in a creative field, and it doesn’t cost you anything. As a blogger back in the day I’ve had my intellectual work ripped off in ways that were not plagiarism, and it feels pretty bad. I don’t really have an opinion on this case, I’m not familiar enough with the background, but I think a lot of the framing here is wrong. It’s not whether anything is plagiarism or legally actionable. It’s whether someone crossed the hard-to-identify line between ethical borrowing and unethical borrowing, or failed to give credit for intellectual work, and if so, the only real sanction is social.
The issue is that the list of people framing this as plagiarism includes Sideways himself, as evidenced by his video and past tweets, and Sideways mentions in said video that he had been considering (and other people had recommended) taking legal action. I think what you're saying about there being an ethical component here is fair, and there's a conversation to be had about creative minds praising and sharing other people's works more freely than what we normally see happen. I just don't see this situation as being anything egregious.
It was well enough known in the west that spanish and portuguese are similar languages that the Simpson's felt comfortable making a joke where that was the punchline.
Spanish and Portuguese is a very natural comparison when you consider that most English speakers hardly consider the two distinct. Portugal sort of gets lumped in with the rest of the Iberian peninsula, making the point that Spanish and Portuguese are related an intuitive one (probably even more intuitive for those who don't actually know the languages that well). I would even say it's easier to grasp than, say, Cockney vs. RP, given that geographic proximity. An even simpler possibility is that Neely's a bit more familiar with Portuguese than the average speaker through his well-documented interest in bossa nova. In either case, I don't think there is enough evidence for Sideways' overall accusations of plagiarism (which they are) to make this one a red flag or even a suspicious coincidence.
@@stopmakingeyesatme1290I was actually about to point out that Neely has mentioned his love of the Portuguese language and alluded to a broader interest in Brazilian culture in numerous videos, the one on "The Girl from Ipanema" being the most notable example. Like, if there's an Adam Neely bingo card, the "BRAZIL MENTIONED" meme is a square. :P
I'm not denying that your experience has left you with this impression. But from my impression as a native British English speaker (where spanish is nowhere near as broadly spoken as it is in the US) and as a linguistics grad, is that people aren't necessarily familiar with the languages themselves, but most people are aware of the fact that they are very closely related. Could they tell you and explain WHY they are closely related? Probably not, but most people know that they are as it is just general knowledge
How does one (Sideways) own the rights to a source material... the source has been published and is owned by the publisher. Seems like a PR stunt based on my initial thoughts. Attempting to own analogies - again are baseless, perhaps they want to own a chord, or a groove next. Stink of entitlement to try and presume ownership of intellectual property. Wow.
seeing this yea this stinks of sideways not understanding plagiarism, and frankly speaking im not surprised. i got very little from his videos and the bit patricia taxxon highlights is genuinely some of the worst theorising ive ever seen; claiming there cant be any tension in a four chord loop is absolutely ludicrous and a massively reductive lens that fails to consider anything other than harmony, like say, advancing melodies, changing rhythms, harmonic or otherwise, arrangement, studio mixing tricks, etc. real berklee (derogatory) energy from his work
Adam Neely, didn't properly site his sources (maybe) which is ironic considering how many times he actually presses the importance of proper sourcing. It's a mistake but it's one that happens throughout academia. It's not like he's the only one who's made this same mistake either.
@@angelmendez-rivera351 Then I don't understand what Sideways, is on about. It's a thing on TH-cam for different creators to *riff* (not rip) off each other's videos. One creator will make a video and then another will expound on the topics of previous videos. It's even kind of how music itself evolves.
Personally, I disagree with the analysis of the languages metaphor. I have never heard it used at all during my time in school, and to me it doesn't sound like even a very good one - it seems like an analogy that mostly helped one very specific person with very specific life experiences (Sideways) understand a concept, and Neely took it and tried to pass it as some grand, universal truth. I think, honestly, If you don't have a background in music, you might think that this is a decent analogy that two people independently mentioned. But especially with the knowledge that they both used the exact same languages as a specific example makes it even more suspect.
It's difficult to make a concrete point with the language analogy because it is almost entirely anecdotal examples that are being thrown around - I can only vouch for my lived experience which aligns with many music theorists and scholars who are tweeting about the subject. Doesn't mean it's the most effective analogy ever, but clearly people have encountered it a decent bit. The Spanish-Portuguese comparison just doesn't register as egregious at all for the reasons I outline in the video - if Sideways had made a comparison between Cantonese and Vietnamese (or Kjunguja and Swahili) and Adam brought up the same example in the Vox video, that would raise more eyebrows to me because most Americans would not think to make that comparison. Even a relatively culturally unaware American is going to be able to pull out Spanish and Portuguese as an example of similar languages.
@@musicdeepdive That's fair - I have had several people I talked to about this say that that analogy is something they have heard before, so maybe I'm in the minority here as someone who didn't think it to be common. Edit: yeeeaaaahhh... I'm starting to think Sideways is losing it, which is really sad.
One of them used C and G for the keys and one of them used C and F. Using C as an example key to make a point is as Music Theory 101 as it gets, and I find it hard to believe Adam going the opposite direction around the circle of fifths was some sinister way of covering his tracks. Again, it would certainly be impossible to prove in any legal setting.
As someone who didn't study music, but who did study the *meaning* of music, I think the distinction between those two things could possibly explain your comment if you studied music on a practical level. I don't think I've encountered many musicians saying that music is like a language, especially in practical settings. But that analogy does get made quite a fair bit by people writing about music on a cultural level, especially when you go back and read stuff written further back in time. If I remember rightly, there's even debate within those spheres about how apt that metaphor is.
It took me a good 5 minutes while watching this to think of Swedish/Norwegian/Danish as an alternative example. Nothing else leapt to mind that's more obvious than Spanish/Portugese.
I just clicked on this because I wanted to know wtf kind of drama Adam Neely/musicology TH-cam would be involved in. Here's what I think: Have you considered a career outside of musicology in ASMR, my guy? Maybe even audiobooks..? Musicologist social media influencer with hundreds of videos accidentally touches upon the same subjects and sources as a musicologist social media influencer with 57 videos. More news at 10. Since they love analogies so much, how about we describe this as like "somehow individually playing a note in the same pitch class". Parallel octaves... This was a very informative opinion piece video that approached the subject matter with respect and dignity, and I find this drama to be wholly dreary, so this is both where I start and stop following it. I wish both parties the best, and hope they can reach a -peaceful resolution- perfect cadence. Merry Christmas!
I don’t buy the personal anecdote that anyone in music theory uses the language analogy. I live with someone with a background in music theory (who it so happens went to college with Ethan) and he says he never heard of it. It also sounds like you’re saying Adam didn’t plagiarism Sideways’s further Spanish-Portuguese analogy because it’s too easy of an idea to come up with? Some actual sourcing for your assertions here would be appreciated, because not even Adam could provide an example of that kind of analogy in his self-defense on Twitter.
The last source in the video description answers your first (also personally anecdotal) point. The argument isn't that literally everyone uses it - it's that the analogy is common. The TH-cam comments and Twitter discussions (in that thread as well as more recent ones) where numerous people with theory backgrounds have professed hearing this analogy adds to this. I already discussed your second point in another response in this comments section. If you can point me to a pair of similar languages more identifiable to Americans than Spanish and Portuguese - two objectively similar languages that are spoken in the Americas - I'd love to hear them. Other commenters made a point that I didn't mention in the video: Neely has studied bossa nova and even made a video about it (th-cam.com/video/OFWCbGzxofU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rqlWCDI7HmDFlY0W), so he has a working knowledge of Portuguese that may not be academic by any means, but is at least beyond your average Joe-schmo American. All the more evidence of him being able to come up with that comparison independent of Sideways' video.
I could even point you to a Wikipedia article (initially created in 2006) that says Spanish and Portuguese are "closely related Romance languages" that "share a great number of words that are spelled identically or almost identically". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Portuguese_and_Spanish
@@musicdeepdive Obviously Spanish and Portuguese are more similar to each other than they are to an East Asian language. But to specifically make this observation with a language analogy to describe the relationship of key signatures using the visual of a circle of fifths? That's clearly lifted from Sideways. No ifs, ands, or buts. We know Adam has "borrowed" from him in the past. And considering how clearly influential Sideways is, I'm curious as to exactly when this language analogy started making the rounds in music circles. His video is seven years old. If all you have regarding this are personal anecdotes, it only seems right for you to give Sideways the benefit of the doubt. Check out the end of NAETE's video "Adam Neely is Wrong About... A LOT." This is clearly an instance of plagiarism.
@@jaycejohnson6846 I don't think you understand how the word "clearly" is used, and it's pretty telling that you were given loads of evidence that go beyond just personal anecdote, and you decided to just ignore them. Your biases are a hell of a force to reckon with.
Not familiar with the controversy, just not a fan of Neely, who makes you tolerate his humble bragging in breaks between his typical smug arrogance, all while learning nothing - he has the charm and educational skills of an insurance salesman. Neely is more interested in commodifying himself than spreading knowledge (TH-cam is his hustle, music is at best his side hustle); if you don’t find that off-putting, more power to you.
This is a really weird take tbh. You can dislike him or find him smug, that’s fine, I can see that, but Including footage from your shows is hardly a “humble brag,” it’s… including footage from your shows. And it’s weird to say that having two forms of income are a “hustle” and “side hustle,” especially when both careers are clearly in conversation with one another like in this cass
@@harrylane4 Right? Also very weird how in a discussion that is about plagiarism and nothing else, this person managed to uncritically bash Neely without addressing the controversy itself at all. The comment reads like Internet masturbation.
Right, so Sideways made a (currently unlisted) video on the subject himself: th-cam.com/video/MUOVZzSzzbY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jRqPeMYpYvQJdsdK
A few thoughts:
1. Sideways mentions the context of his own DM conversations with Adam and how that impacted his response to the situation - I can't evaluate those obviously, but it is fair to say that this is a piece of context which could help explain some of his frustrations. No denying it.
2. About the Coco video: Sideways uses screenshots and video clips that showcase Neely using the same three sources I talked about in this video. He also uses clips of Neely and himself talking about similar ideas from similar sources and claims that Neely gets a fact wrong at one point, maybe because he's intentionally changing words around like the people in the hbomberguy video (paraphrasing that last bit). It doesn't make this case any more compelling and doesn't acknowledge how commonplace those sources are, or how a video that doesn't mention Coco once is supposed to have ripped it off.
3. About the keys/languages thing: Sideways repeats the same arguments that he and Sarah had used before and plays a clip from a TikTok Sarah made on the subject. He does not address the comments about how commonplace that analogy is despite his Twitter mentions being filled with people saying as much. I also find it interesting that he claims the academics who he's talked to have recommended that he take legal action, when probably 90% of the academic publicly commenting on the situation are saying that he doesn't have a case at all.
It's not our place to invalidate Sideways' frustration - his feelings are his feelings, it is what it is - and, between his suggestive comments about making his response video public and hinting at sharing the DM conversations between him and Adam, this doesn't feel like justice; this feels like revenge/tearing down Adam. And if I don't think the facts are on your side, I'm not about to support that. (Also, a TH-cam channel with almost a million subs trying to paint this as a David vs. Goliath story where Adam is taking advantage of his higher follower count feels a bit absurd, but that's an aside).
What a shame.
I don't know about you, but my faith in Sideways' objective perspective of the situation was damaged quite heavily the moment he claimed academics were on his side, while showing a tweet by Frank Lehman saying it was "most likely accidental".
Can't tell if I'm just being toxic here but this post comes off as weirdly passive-aggressive despite all of the unnecessary prefacing about how "all feelings are valid, &c., &c.". Yeah sure, we don't need to crucify him but we need to call a spade a spade: Sideways is making a fool of himself (and by extension, his gf) trying to drag Neely through the mud because he thinks now is his moment to "expose" him for something he already apologized for. It's really cynical, calculated, and malicious behaviour based off of a minor wrong which he's clearly blown up in his mind to be this massive unforgivable betrayal by a former friend. This is classic unhinged behaviour. He himself must know this, judging by how he's unlisted this video and avoids direct criticism wherever it presents itself so that he can hold on to this narrative.
@@RuthvenMurgatroydI agree that this video tiptoed around and went into excruciating detail drawn out over a long time to reach an obvious conclusions. could have just said “non musician gf makes clueless plagiarism accusations creating needless drama”. If anyone is invalidating feelings it’s for the purpose of impartial judgement, not out of toxicity.
The tone of the video and this post is passive because I'm not going to ascribe intentions to anyone's behavior if I don't know for sure what's going on and I am not going to call him or his partner "unhinged" for similar reasons. The wording used in this post was stronger than that in the video because it represents by far the biggest example of Sideways' feelings crossing over into actions. His partner's past tweets are not likely to move the meter much on people's perception of Neely, but this video certainly could (and has in at least a few cases).
Again, he can feel whatever he wants because he's entitled to it and I'm not going to tell him "you're not allowed to feel frustrated by any of this", but if it crosses over into action or threats ("Adam Neely is turbo-fucked"? really?), that's a bridge too far and it's going to get called out.
Much respect but should you be sharing an "unlisted" video?? I am so confused.
Sarah contacted me a while back, she basically told me that my brief reference of Sideways in my 4 chord loops video was instrumental in his mental breakdown and hiatus, gave me the whole spiel about how I should care more about mental health, etc. It was terribly anxiety inducing, the best possible outcome would be finding out Sarah exaggerated my role, because Sideways never mentioned it himself to my knowledge, (although he has me blocked on twitter.)
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, he has some issues regarding his place online and his partner is exacerbating them.
Thank you for sharing that. No matter who it comes from, there certainly seems to be a level of insecurity and anxiety inside that whole situation which is very unfortunate, and I'm sorry that it was projected onto you.
Hang on, you mean the joke at 0:54? That harmless, blink-and-you'll-miss-it playful jab?
Even if that truly was a cause for his mental breakdown (no judgement there), that's an insane thing to lay at your feet, as if you should've known better.
I'm so sorry that happened to you :/ Completely unfair and emotionally manipulative. I love your videos Patricia, can't wait to see more from you.
I find it genuinely surreal and deeply worrying that a guy who even now boasts nearly ten times as many subscribers as you on this platform would be so wildly insecure as to take a snarky jab at a snobby sentiment in one of his videos so deeply personally that he would *stop making videos entirely.* Whether we take this at face value or treat it as exaggeration or even outright fabrication-and I do prefer to take people's words and actions in good faith-this situation does not read as anything resembling healthy or good.
If that little 2 second jab poking fun at Sideways was that huge of a deal, perhaps being a public online content creator just doesn't suit him. And if he clicked off your video in the first minute because of that, then he really missed a great video essay 😓
Using the same sources, and citing them properly, is not plagiarism. If Neely was quoting Sideways verbatim, or structuring these topics in the exact same way, then there'd be a case here, but simply using the same sources? Wtf?
Anyone whose ever written a university research paper and spent a lot of time researching a particular topic knows that people will cite and quote similar sources quite a bit. This seems so silly and a far reach from what hbomberguy was getting at in his video.
Yeah, this just seems like a case of someone throwing accusations around without actually understanding what plagiarism is.
Agree. If only one person was allowed to cite a source there wouldn’t be very many papers out there in any field. To further your point, unless Sideways arrived at some novel conclusion or proof, and Neely echoed it without reference, there is nothing to plagiarize.
And ... Adam is NOT some rando undergraduate. He has a large body of work consisting (I assume) of original content. So these two really very minor incidents don't really register. In this age of reaction videos, etc., it's absurd to get worked up about something like this.
And I say that as someone who makes most of his money from royalties on my written work. Intellectual property is my life.
Meanwhile in the science youtuber space, folks call this sort of thing "getting Derek'd" and laugh it off. Except the classic "Getting Derek'd" example is when you have a video planned and someone (typically Derek from Veritassium, hence the name of the phenomenon) releases a video on the exact same topic a couple days before you get yours done.
Anyway, an overlap of topics is not plagiarism, using 3 of the same sources is not plagiarism, and anyone who thinks it is should not be making content on the internet.
Dirk from Veristablium?
@@charliecarrot Correct Dark from Varistitum
I thought being Dereked involves Veritasium also pointing out that something in your video is wrong or inaccurate.
@@LouigiVerona I heard the term for the first time literally yesterday and the context was Derek correcting peoples videos, yeah
@@charliecarrot Hi Tim
Having watched all the videos before I knew anything about this controversy... This seems really stupid.
For the first videos: It's just not plagiarism. Even in the case Adam saw that video and wanted to do something similar, the point of each video and script aren't nearly close enough to cry plagiarism. They share a common quote from a 3rd party source, and use the same, extremely popular reference video. Adam wasn't taking eyes away from Sideways audience, they weren't in competition, so there is really no problem whatsoever.
For the second: I got taught the same metaphor when I studied music at by a friend who studied jazz back when I was studying music. I live in the UK so instead of Spanish and Portuguese, I was taught German and Dutch (because I was taught German in school), but in the US you guys learn Spanish, so it makes sense they use the same reference. It's just silly...
At the end of the day it just feels like Sideways is bitter over nothing, it's truly a shame.
This is about as silly as "pose plagiarism" or "color plagiarism" from the art theft sphere
Shouting plagirism over using the same quote from a book is the dumbest thing i ever heard since pose theft.
@@undeniablySomeGuy remember the 00s deviantart days when ppl acted like you could steal a color palette
This the most based and good faith handling of such a nuanced and senstitive situation I have ever seen on TH-cam. This was very well done.
I really miss Sideways. Some of the best videos on TH-cam. I reference certain ones constantly and I got so many friends to watch those videos who would never sit through a Neely video.
I really respect Sideways, and I feel like I understand parts of his motivations, but I strongly feel like he's wrong here. What happened is not plagiarism, and we shouldn't dilute the term by calling everyone who's inspired by an idea or concept a plagiarist. The examples Hbomberguy pointed out in his video were wholesale cut-and-paste plagiarism. They took other people's words, giant sections of original works, and passed them off as their own words.
Neely could have possibly waited a bit longer to cover a similar topic, and given Sideways a shoutout in the video if Neely watched them, but I don't think it's unethical that he didn't do those things.
God do i hate it when youtubers I LOVE watching end up quitting/being questionable in general. I knew Sideways quit a while ago, figured it was for some random reason, not this.
This seems like a case of "Neely saw the Sideways video and thought he could make a video that used some of the same topics for a different purpose". This is not plagiarism. It's more in the "being inspired by" category. If Sideways is peeved by this kind of stuff, it feels to me like a kind of childish ego thing, and certainly not comparable to the kind of examples Hbomber's video was highlighting.
If you're inspired by it, and touch on some of the same points, citing it when you talk about those points makes sense
I agree citing all sources and sources of inspiration is always preferable. If Neely saw the Sideways video beforehand (likely), you could call omitting to mention it a mistake in judgement. Or that he forgot. But in any case, he apologized to Sideways (seemingly several times) and even took the video down after getting blocked by the guy on social media. And Mr Sideways still hasn't let it go? Over 5 years later?? The guy has issues.
@@HawkOfGP I agree that sideways is more sensitive to this stuff than he should be, but I read his (public, not gated) post on Patreon, and the Neely stuff doesn't seem to be his major concern. He's had academic work of his plagiarized verbatim before and been treated like shit by academia. It didn't seem like this Neely thing was the primary concern at least at the time he wrote that post
@@tremolo2109 being inspired by something and using it as a source is not the same thing
@ sure, but pure inspiration is just "this person talked about something in a way that inspired me to talk about something else." If you're talking about some of the same things, it becomes a situation where a citation is appropriate. That way, you're keeping people in the conversation and making a more robust environment for these essays. If you first heard something from the person "inspiring" you, you should cite them when you talk about that thing.
Again, I don't think this Neely thing is even that big of a thing for sideways individually. I'm just talking about this in a general way.
I guess "inspiration" is usually an idea associated with creative pursuits. I think in some cases with video essays, people are referring to something more like "teaching." Sideways has inspired people to think about music and its place in media, people can take that inspiration and go crazy with it. Sideways has taught people things they didn't know about the industry, they should cite him if they're passing on that information.
The recent Hbomberguy video is about people presenting material as their own documentarian work that was in fact lifted, and also about people thinking all they have to do is say a name somewhere and then there's an open buffet on those sources. This situation involves Sideways taking finders-keepers possession of material that is not theirs and then wanting to punish other people as if that information was created by them. Of course, if someone uses the same quoted material and accompanies it with the same observations then they might be stealing your observations, but that's not distinct here. No sympathy for Sideways.
Unintentional copying does happen. It's more common than people think. I know Trent Reznor admitted to unintentionally copying the melody to an obscure David Bowie song. Both men openly joked about the fact and were very friendly about it.
I think the fact he took it down and credited the original video speaks volumes. Plagiarists don't usually admit to fault. They double down and deny.
It wasn't just an obscure song, it was a Japanese sake commercial jingle
It just seems odd that there has only been one person (as far as i've heard) to accuse him of plagiarism. Why would someone only do it once, well into their career?
Exactly. We all borrow. Or at least the smart ones.
Omg... I can't believe Neely even acknowledged Sideways accusations at all. It doesn't sound like the situations are even plagiarism adjacent.
yeah, true; but better safe than sorry.
Familiar with some of Adam Neeley's content but not this particular conflict. The algorithm presented Music Deep Dive to me for the first time today. I do respect and appreciate the calm and considerate manner this topic is discussed in this MDD video. Great audio quality too. Thanks MDD for your contribution here and every TH-camr's content on music and music theory. This music theory layman is enriched by you all.
The video title alarmed me, but now I’m just left wondering why Sideways is acting in the way that he is. If Adam has a pattern of plagiarism, that’s really serious and should be called out, but if it’s just one guy making two accusations, and one of them is a clip of an interview making a common point, I’m left feeling like there’s some other intention going on.
When you're subbed to enough youtubers within a single topic of interest, seeing two creators releasing videos on the same topic at the same time is not a rare occurrence at all. I see it more than 10 times a year.
You're just observing someone with mental issues.
Yeah... when I saw the title I thought one or both of them had gone full milkshake duck, but it just seems like Sideways is going through some stuff in public. Too bad, I like his work (and Adam's, of course)
Honestly, I really didn't think Sideways's partner put him in a good light. I think there are tons of people in the TH-cam sphere, who deserve to be challenged, and will be, thanks to Hbombs video. But the idea that someones recount of theory, or similar sources in a video that still ultimately goes to different places, IS NOT PLAGERISM.
It feels like they took it to heart, and felt like the video Sideways made was being overshadowed by a bigger youtuber covering a similar topic, and overlapping in certain examples, and got upset. And then decided to use that to scrutinize the character of Adam Neely, and make up baseless accusations and rationalizations for why he did this, or that. And then use all of those baseless accusations to bolster the point over and over again, that Adam did Sideways dirty.
I feel bad for Sideways, because clearly he is hurt, and it has affected him greatly. But he and his partner aren't really making as many concrete points as they think. It's not cut and dry. It's also been 5 years, in which nothing further has been pushed against Adam. And as for Vox, if he really did steal from Sideways, why would he do it AGAIN!? It's cuz he didn't.
Yeah, this whole thing just feels like motivated reasoning. The arguments for Sideways’ side are real, but they’re incredibly weak.
There are whole fields of study based on the neuroscience of music. When a video on music and memory goes viral, people will talk about it. That doesn't make it plagiarism
i see how it can be immensely frustrating to watch a video of another creator in that fairly narrow niche you are in and it appears to rip off some of your hard work; especially when your lifelihood is tied to your content.
problem is that perception is one thing, reality something completely different, and the best thing we can obtain are reasonable assumptions on reality which is in effect a third thing.
your breakdown was really comprehensive and i appreciate how you went out of your way to not put blame on Sideways or his partner.
I feel for Sideways, but he's pretty wrong. I wish he could be persuaded of that enough, and in a way that will help him come back, because I really liked his content too
also I saw Nate's video, I'm an Adam Neely fan but I wanted to be informed, and I too felt it was a guy ranting about his very weak opinions and baseless accusations
Bassless huhuh
great video. concise and well-spoken.
i've been a long-time fan of both channels and i have to agree that, while i miss sideways' content and feel sympathy for him, this is whole conversation seems pedantic. adam and sideways have done a podcast-style discussion together in the past so clearly there is an open line of communication there. this a conversation that could've been handled privately and could have resulted in a much more productive outcome.
still rooting for both of them and i hope that they continue to make high-level content in the world of music theory, even if it means they choose not to cross paths in the future.
Is unfortunate. That sideways felt that way, because I really liked the channel. I watched both channels, I’m sure a lot of people watch both channels since there aren’t that many really great music video essayists. It’s clearly never going to be plagiarism when efforts are made into two very different videos. Immediately one based on the movie, and one that is standalone is already 50% of a difference three out of 10 sources are the same, there’s another 25% difference. And that alone, without even going to further differences is enough to reasonably know that probable inspiration, is the link at best. Clearly someone like Adam neely wouldn’t be trying to hurt sideways, or steel sideways work, even if they were exactly the same in their sources, Adam Neely would have read those sources, and did the work, and come to a similar conclusion. I also did a paper in 2016 for school that was really similar to both and I hadn’t seen those videos that time. Especially when you’re doing schoolwork around other people on similar topics, there’s literally only so many sources. And if you want to be “accurate”, you will both find the same sources because they’re the prominent, and accurate sources. There’s just no way around that. In that same year of 2016 for me, I also developed my own theories around music being just like language, and making a French and Spanish comparison. It’s definitely not something that you would lay claim to, I definitely wouldn’t claim either person were the source of the original idea. I would love if sideways started making videos again, and I personally love when all of my favourite music theory channels cover the same topic, because I want to hear different perspectives. I always laughed when 12. Tone was like Adam Neely made a video, now I am making the same video, but I think Adam Neely had a different perspective than I did. I love that kind of video.
So it is confirmed that Sideways has stopped making videos. It’s pretty sad tbh, Sideways was one of my favorite channels, I’ve grown to like him more than Adam Neely. I hope that since it seems there’s not much evidence to prove his point, Sideways won’t ruin his career by coming back and making a frantic video about it like other TH-camrs have done this year (ahem, iiluminaughtii, ahem). Unfortunately, we’re still in 2023, so it still might happen.
honestly a great video on controversy I didn't know existed
Because it isn't a controversy.
I genuinley think that in the long run, the hbomberguy video will end up doing more harm than good. Not becasue of the video, but because of disgruntled creators who now feel embolded to make these outrageous claims and allegations based on nothing but feelings. Sideways evidently feels like hes been plagirised, but that doesn't make it legitimate.
Unfortunately in this day and age, espeically on twitter, all it takes is a whisper of an allegation of wrongdoing for peoole to start taking them seriously and tearing down creators without taking the time and considerations that you make here.
Speaking of Sideways accusing others of plagiarism, I remembered the time when he and the channel PBS digital studio's Sound Field released videos on the same topic. Okay, it might have not been him per se, but I remember that particular video by Sound Field got flooded by Sideways' subscribers accusing them of plagiarism.
Needless to say that sometimes, parallel creation happens (that is the moment when two or more creators create things that are similar at the same time, _independently_ of each other), and add that to one more confounding factor in the intricacy of accusing someone of plagiarism.
Thank you for clearing some of the confusion up, I agree generally with your assessment on the situation, and was wondering what happened to sideways. I usually stay out of these but seeing their names involved in some pointless drama peaked my interest.
extremely well said. thank you for sharing your opinion, as this is a sphere of the internet dear to me as well, so i appreciate hearing some perspective from someone with skin in the game, so to speak. again, very well articulated and thanks for posting
I agree with the general consensus in the comments. To me, If this connection between sideways, and Adam Neely is plagiarism, then the term has become meaningless. It might be better to talk about levels of borrowing. Here I would ask what is the level “borrowing”. Is the borrowing done continuously throughout the video? is the borrowing barely concealed paraphrasing? Is the overall structure of the video identical, in terms of argumentation and evidence? Was the borrowing cited clearly? Are there any original elements in the second video?
Hbomberguy Depicts egregious examples of plagiarism with laughably altered paraphrases. The example of the gamer guy is clearly a slam dunk plagiarism verdict.
Maybe Neely’s video is merely “unoriginal” and rehashes the same material in his own manner. I wouldn’t call that plagiarism it I would just call it lazy and unworthy of him. Note: I haven’t seen either video.
At one point musicdeepdive talks about a quote from a famous book used in both videos. is that really suspicious? If the quite is that famous and they are making the same point then Neely is correct to quote the original; I wouldn’t reference sideways unless I was adding or modifying his argument. That’s doing criticism …
I won’t comment on what motivates sideways, But perhaps, if he kept his accusations to lazy lazy borrowing we wouldn’t be talking about this at all.
Thank you for this video and your perspective. Could we get that XLR cable on your microphone supported by, perhaps, resting it along one of the adjustable tightening screws for the boom arm? I feel as though someone has placed a cup full of liquid near the edge of a table and it’s about to fall.
Tell me you're actually obsessed by this guy's mic stand. What is actually your deal? Nobody else is.
@@argusfleibeit1165not concerned with the stand at all. Cable management, however, is certainly a passion of mine.
I’ll avoid going into detail, but musicians, streamers, internet enjoyers etc are inherently bound by the cables required to transmit our intent into consumable media. This is an inconvenient necessity at best, even in these modern times.
In this video, our subject takes up ~1/8th of the frame. This is not ideal, but obviously easily forgiven. The microphone stand is placed out of frame and utilizes a boom mechanism to reach a suitable distance from our source. The height and position of the mic, though, is questionable. ~1/3rd of the frame serves only to feature said microphone and its components, including the XLR cable due to its dangling nature.
Not only will this result in unnecessary wear to the cable and pins over time, it also weighs down the rear end of the microphone. Thusly it must then adhere to the “equal and opposite” law of physics, requiring more adjustment to maintain its already-unsteady, outstretched posture. This means the stand is working double-duty and its joints end up paying the price. The wear on the tightening screws/hardware alone will decrease the product’s lifespan by as much as 47%.
So, not only would running the cable along the boom arm negate the pitfalls of danglification, it would also insure the cable is out of the way. I guarantee you before and after this video, the subject rolled over the cable in question, resulting in a number of frivolities I’m sure we’re all familiar with!
One who cares for fuzzy friends of the domestic variety may relate to the, albeit unintended, results of their…unpredictable behavior. The special awareness of a canine is frequently blind to obstacles, especially when “zoomies” mode is engaged. When feline curiosity inspires playful experimentation, it’s often at our expense. Destruction and chaos is second nature to the wild animal residing within them. Which brings us back to the subjective observation I expressed in my initial comment. After all, what is more tempting to a cat than a glass of water at the edge of a table?
In conclusion, what I hope to illustrate is that PTSD exists even in the mundane. So forgive me if my suggestion seems trite or steeped in pomposity. This couldn’t be further from the truth, as I only hope to spare others minor inconveniences and encourage erring on the side of caution regarding proper cable management. To help and to heal. To love and to hold. To lady to rest. This is how babby is formed. God bless America, I hope your preferred Holiday celebrations are warm and bright, surrounded by those you love. Lord, we ask You to bring peace, good tidings, and cheer to whom I am replying. Afford them the Light with which to see a clear path forward. Bathed in the light of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. We relinquish the sacred Trust (or #Trussy on TikTok) to keep our hearts open for Your Plan. To keep us from harm and deliver us from evil. It is within the blood of Christ and his naked body, we Come. Please, oh Heavenly Father, we ask to absolve us of our past sins (poor cable management). Praise be to You, Oh God, it is in Your Name we Pray. Amen.
@@argusfleibeit1165
*Think again, pal.* As you can probably imagine, a sizable portion of the viewing audience for this particular video is made up of musicians, composers, and acoustic technicians, all of whom handle expensive instruments, reproduction-, amplification-, and recording equipment on a regular basis. I too noticed the undesirable strain being placed on the XLR connector by the weight of the mic cable, and it gives me the heebies-like a guitar perched on the lip of a guitar stand rather than comfortably nestled in its grasp. If you are not overcome by the impulse to reach out and fix something like that, you are 100% not a working musician.
*As an aside,* this is why most podcasters use something like a Shure SM7B, which offsets the XLR connector in a separate housing moulded into the stand adapter so the the cable can be cleanly routed along the boom arm using the included velcro straps. That's right, they're included by the manufacturer because proper cable management is industry standard practice, you presumptuous slob.
*Of course, the problem* with moving the connector away from the base of the microphone is that when it is handheld, you tend to grasp it at the point at which it would otherwise be mounted, which exactly where the XLR coupling is located. It makes watching the Football Daily podcast a painful experience-a complaint in which I am not alone at having directed toward the uploaders.
@@badnrad you took 'kill em w kindness' to a new level 😂 from sincere tech talk to #trussy
never heard of Sideways so can't comment on him but I can say Neely clearly did right with his citations because I bought the book (this is your brain on music) immediately after watching his video.
Influencers shouldn't be surprised when, you know, they influence people. Especially in the music sphere. That's almost all music is really. A continuum.
I left essentially the same thoughts on the whole circle of fifths thing as a comment on a TH-cam channel covering this a few months ago and my stance hasn't changed. I learned now his partner has a online presence, but that's really the only new thing I didn't know about this situation.
Alex, interesting video. I don't know of Sideways and have only seen a few of Adam's videos. I doubt Adam intentionally copied another TH-camr's content. It may be that he saw Sideways' video (or one of his commenters) and decided to make his own video on the subject. Googling the subject would likely return similar results for references. The reference to Spanish and Portuguese would be my first choice. There are plenty of examples, though only people familiar with those languages would understand.
I haven't seen the videos personally, so I limit my discussion to generalities.
There have been several occasions where my coworkers have taken my work and put their name on it. That felt bad, but I didn't lose a lot of sleep over it.
Which brings up the real issue... I feel bad for Sideways that a perceived slight to him has ruined his life. There are way deeper problems than someone copying his content. I do hope he gets the help he needs and returns to TH-cam, if that's what he wants to do.
Thanks for the video!
…because “the relationship between Danish and Norwegian” would be lost on an American audience…
Thanks for making a calm and sober and empathetic video. Some of us have a background in music theory that includes rigorous college instruction, and that can make it difficult to be kind and understanding to people whose opinions are not based upon the same degree of study. What seems novel to some is frequently old news to others. I am often surprised at how unoriginal I am, but that experience over the years has taught me humility rather than defensiveness.
I really enjoy Sideways videos, but as with a lot of claims of "plagiarism", it seems very overblown. Your Movie Sucks did a great video on the Kimba the White Lion and Lion King plagiarism claims that showcased how, if two works have similar overlapping ideas (like a story about a lion in Africa), there is going to be a lot of overlapping concepts that appear in both works that are both too vague to really claim as stolen and easy to selectively edit in a video to appear much more clear-cut than they are.
The reality is that Sideways' videos are overwhelmingly repetitive and not that deep. He has some videos that get REALLY deep into music theory, but many of them repeat the same basics over and over, and it's very likely that other music theory essayists (especially ones that create new videos frequently and have a lot of visibility, like Neely) will probably cover those same basics. The Spanish/Portuguese comparison is a little on-the-nose (I would probably say Spanish/Italian if I was comparing similar but distinct languages, personally), but it wouldn't be the first time that Vox has stolen content from independent creators, so I think it's on them more than Neely, in that situation.
I can understand why Sideways is upset, he wants to make good, unique content. It's very common for artists (which, yes, I'm calling video essayists artists) to think that their work only has value if it's unique and original. The reality, in my opinion, is that what makes a piece of art interesting is YOUR personal perspective on it and how you approach it. A thousand people could make a video from the same materials and come up with a thousand different, unique, interesting videos from it. If you really think your value is in breaking the news on something like the psychology of music, I can understand why it would upset you, but also that's not why people watch video essays. They watch them for your personal take on the topic. Three big youtubers I follow all did videos on similar topics recently (Hbomberguy and Philosophytube on plagiarism, and ToddintheShadows on James Somerton [the main topic of Hbomb's video]), and I watched all three. I didn't think "well I've seen one person talk about it, done with that topic forever". I thought "oh cool, let's hear what they all have to say".
If someone directly copies your work nearly word-for-word, like most of the people Hbomb called out, that's no good, but if somebody just mentions a similar idea to what you posited, that's really not a big deal.
Honestly if sideways got this bent out of shape from this “copying” I don’t know how he has managed to survive as a musician.
Copying the same passage can't possibly be plagiarism, not even close. Books have certain central passages and those will get quoted often.
I have a masters in music comp and I’ve never heard the modulation - language comparison. But one comparison does not plagiarism make. Also, I could easily see many educators coming up with the analogy on their own. This REALLY sucks for both of these creators and I hope that egos can be shed and everyone can achieve a chill life.
Sideways thinks that Toby Fox did a terrible thing by self-plagiarizing Megalovania. His philosophy of plagiarism is extremely strict and not something I understand at all. He comes across as insecure about his own success, which feels silly considering he was extremely successful.
Wait, how does someone "self-plagiarize"? What does that even mean?
is there a link to this claim by Sideways?
@@APaleDot self-plagiarism is actually a thing but I don't think it applies to this situation. In Academia, you have to cite ALL of your sources, which includes yourself. If you are writing a paper and want to use a previous piece of research you've done, you still need to properly cite that source.
It makes sense in academia because you want to be able to trace each individual piece of information. It's not just about giving proper credit, it's about letting people critique your work which includes showing where you got your information. Self-plagiarism is more of a clerical error than an ethical problem.
I missed all of this jesus too much drama going on with all these youtubers
agree
That's what happens when you gather a bunch of attention-seeking narcissists on a platform that caters to attention-seeking narcissists.
PBS News hour had a documentary about music and memory research produced in 2015.
Man, I was just thinking "haven't seen a Sideways video in a long time, wonder what's up with that?" Sucks that this is what's up with that.
I think something that's getting lost in the post-Hbomb discourse is that the people he talks about, even if they weren't plagiarists, would still be lazy content farmers with no demonstrated expertise or even interest in their subjects. Adam Neely is a Berklee-educated professional jazz musician. That doesn't mean he can't be a hack TH-camr-plenty of experts and professionals are terrible at communicating artfully about their subject-but it's absolutely context that needs to be considered when judging the veracity of these claims. As you point out, the Spanish/Portugal thing might seem damning in a vacuum, but in the context of the field they both work in seems to be an extremely plausible coincidence. And I mean, I play music as a hobby and the last time I studied music theory academically was in high school, but I've got a copy of This is Your Brain on Music. It's a very popular book.
It sounds like this is a situation of one person reacting aggressively to a perceived offense, the other person (and here I'm speculating about the content of these rumored DMs) reacting aggressively to that reaction, and then it just escalates from their with both parties feeling defensives and digging deeper into their trenches. I appreciate Sideways' videos and, even if he came at Neely maybe more aggressively than was justified, it sucks if Neely treated him poorly and Sideways didn't feel heard and respected. But it also seems pretty clear that Neely is not in the wrong here, creatively. At this point it seems like Sideways is so locked into his position that any criticism of him is just going to feel like part of the pile-on though, and I suspect there's not going to be any good resolution to this.
Anyway, I really appreciate your even-handed approach in this video. Between that and the 22, a Million art on the wall you've earned yourself a new subscriber.
the best Bon Iver album! (and thank you!)
This whole situation is sad since both these creators are the ones who inspired me to make videos in the first place
Thanks for that thoughtful and informed analysis :)
Piggybacking is good for both on algorithm. That was also a massive book used by EVERYONE at that time.
this is seird from POV because i found this video while looking on Sideways and Adam Neely's veiws on what negative time signatures.
Neely’s entire concept was lifted from veritasium
Wild to have this type of dispute in the context of music theory. Music has a long, illustrious history of songwriters copping from each other, putting familiar melody lines in a new context. Or even in the same key. Check out Mozart's Misericordias Domini K. 222 about a minute in, and tell me what you hear.
I am very much a fan of both creators but it does feel like Sideways is in need of a friend who will help him negotiate his way forward rather than feeding a spiral that is clearly making him very unhappy. He is looking to be made whole in a way that simply will not happen and banging his head against a wall will only hurt him and erode the ground beneath him.
I can understand how there may be disagreements about the nuance of the allegations (and that, in itself, must be grating on people on both sides) but even if he was absolutely justified, he has achieved all that he can achieve from this and he basically achived that a while ago.
Sometimes educating a stupid person doesn't make them smarter, just gives them tools that they will use to hide their stupidity.
Attacking youtubers for copying each other at the slightest sight of similarity in their content has been a thing forever. Now the idiots who did that simply call it plagiarism instead of "ripping someone off" and know where to look for more crumbs of weak evidence to grasp onto.
I agree with just about everything you have to say here, but I’m not sure you even need to get that deep into the weeds. Material reproduced for the purposes of education is considered fair use in the United States. Unless I just totally misunderstand copyright law (which is a real possibility) then I don’t think Adam is in the wrong even if he did directly copy that analogy.
The thing I wish I could get Sideways to understand is citations and vague concepts for videos are not protected. If two people do videos on the construction of two different buildings they'll likely have some overlap on citations and concepts. Any video concept that could be made has likely been made already by a TH-camr with 5 subscribers.
As for the circle of fifts, in high school (a decade ago) the person who taught me music theory used the EXACT same analogy, down to using Spanish and Portuguese.
So I guess plagiarism will now be the buzzword of the year after that hbomber video? Everyone itching to call people out because the drama was fun, but it doesn’t look like Neely plagiarised anything.
Hi. I’ve become recently interested in composing music. I’ve learned about the chord wheel. Could I ask some basic questions? When writing a song, would you stick to the chords/notes in that section of the wheel linked with the key that your song is in?
Genuinely surprised i have never heard of Sideways. That as far as I can recall TH-cam has never recommended a video. Weird.
Even if the analogy was completly new thing sideways came up with, it would at most be impolite to not mention him. There is nothing wrong with using someone elses Analogy, just like one teacher coming up with a good explenation, doesn't mean no one else can use that explanation.
The point is that the analogy is not his in the first place. It’s like how every drum teacher ever teaches traditional grip by saying “now rotate your arm as though you were turning a door handle” or when clarinet players get told to imagine trying to blow a piece of popcorn from between their teeth to simulate the motion of tonguing. These are just concepts that are directly adjacent and thus get used frequently, it’s more likely both of them are directly citing the person who taught them theory, as would I be if I were to use that analogy, because it’s still used in a classroom setting to this day
I remember a situation with CGP Gray and VSauce3. Both made a video about teleportation more or less at the same time.
CGP dropped it first and the guy from VSauce3 was stumped about if he should upload his video since it was basically the same video with the same points.
Dunno if this is a similar situation.
Oh and CGP encouraged VS3 to upload it and was a bit apologetic, I think the exchange is still on YT.
yea this happens all the time, Dan Olson of folding ideas mentions this at the start of his video on flat earth which was put on hold because of hbomberguy's old flat earth (I'd say that hold benefitted Olson because his video is scarily predictive of January 6 months before it happened)
They both deal with educational content. Imagine one math teacher annoyed by another peer talking about the same subject lol.
Sideways seems to want a monopoly on certain subjects
Citing some of the same sources in discussing a completely different subject is not even close to plagiarism, what the hell is sideways talking about? It honestly feels to me like sideways might be projecting, and disappeared to keep from self-destructing the same way iiluminaughtii did. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me. In other words, "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"
As with almost all public discussions of plagiarism, this one largely misses the boat. Plagiarism is a crime -- a form of theft -- and as such has centuries of legal practice providing a precise definition of what it is. Simply put: plagiarism involves arrangements of words, and little else. Ideas and sources are public domain and cannot be plagiarized. (Otherwise, every writer in the world would be paying off the Shakespeare estate.) If Sideways had said something like "My dog plays better piano than your dog," and Neely had said "My dog [or cat] plays better piano [or clavichord] than you your dog," that would plagiarism. But quoting the same source simply does not cut it -- and that goes double for the circle of 5ths. I use that all the time. Am I required to apologize to Sideways, or Guitar Zombie, or David Bennett, or any of the hundreds of other TH-camrs who have covered it?
Alex here actually stumbles into this, but then immediately gets up, brushes himself off, and runs away when he notes that "This is Your Brain on Music" is widely known and referred to among musicians and listeners. Sideways did not get a copyright on that book simply by quoting it in his video. Neely is free to quote from it any way he wants.
The notion that ideas can be plagiarized is a dangerous error. A loose accusation --like this one -- can destroy lives and ruin livelihoods. Anyone choosing to discuss the topic needs to familiarize himself with the actual concepts before leaping in. Anything less is irresponsible and reckless.
(I'll add here that legal definitions have been loosened in recent cases -- see the Jefferson/Hemmings playwright case some years back -- but none of these decisions has become casebook law and are not used as precedents.)
Adam Neely has his flaws. I find his virtue-posturing wokism utterly grating (He's the type who can find racism in the arrangement of black and white piano keys). But he's not a plagiarist. As for Sideways -- cracking up over something like this suggests far more serious issues at play. I suggest counseling and staying away from the Internet.
my high ass thought this was a sideways/adam neely crossover video
sorry to disappoint
What’s the point of citing your sources if not for others to look up and research on their own? Lmao I’ve never heard of Sideways but if another TH-camr making a similar video to yours causes you to just stop making videos, it probably wasn’t the right hobby for them anyway.
I haven't checked out either video, but it's well known that music affects and accesses areas of the brain in strange ways. I learned about this in 2009 in a high school psychology class. Anybody who claims ownership of this idea is not being honest with themselves. This argument is nonsense.
Point 2 seems like good practice. You should cite primary sources, not the secondary source. He could have mentioned that sideways is also of his opinion... but why should he have.
Since when is citing the same source and using the common analogies considered plagiarism? Maybe in You Tube's Court of Public Opinion. It's not like Sideways video essays were groundbreaking. Nether Sideways' nor Adams Neely's videos were the first to address these subjects. Music therapy has been around since the 18th century. When my father was in hospice my sister and I played music he had enjoyed throughout his life. This controversy reminds me of Illuminati 's plagiarism accusations against Legal Eagle. Sideways accusations of plagiarism would make a good segment for "Butthurt Of The Week" on Glenn Fricker's Spectre Sound Studios channel.
Wow, I like both of those creators a lot so it's disappointing that all that happened. My first thought is that creators like Sideways deconstruct songs that are known to millions right off the bat. Just having famous song or artist names in your title can get you millions of clicks. So it's just kind of ironic that he would accuse somebody of plagiarizing his ideas.
Gotta say.. the maturity you exhibited on this drama bs topic just got you a new sub. Glad to be here.
Wow, I've lost a lot of respect for Sideways. Plagiarism is a serious accusation. I hope his mental health improves so he can gain a little perspective on the kind of damage he's doing and make amends.
expecially!
The idea that two pieces of work sharing sources is plagiarism is so weird to me. As a college student there has been so many times when peers and me have shared sources and ideas because if we read a book or article and think “this text explains something really well and gives good reasoning” then we’ll bring it up to each other.
I’ve had friends ask me about recording bass guitar and if I had sources for their work and I happily gave them several sources explaining the basics of mic placement etc. for recording bass guitar.
In all the petty arguments us students have I’ve never heard people fight over a source. It just feels childish especially considering Adam was using notes and improvising with academic vocabulary like a jazz musician would in the vox video.
I feel for Sideways because I do love his videos as much as Neely’s but this is rather immature. I hope Sideways can regain his creative drive though it feels like this scandal is just a deflection from something else he might be dealing with as it has only been mentioned recently with plagiarism being thrown into popular debate. Sideways made a public post on his patreon addressing his inactivity a couple years back and there’s no mention or allusion to plagiarism contributing to his lack of motivation.
Hopefully both sides can work this dispute out and I can keep my respect for Sideways’ work.
In Germany Spanish and Portuguese is not used in that way, but if you learned it in your studies it is common place. We might use Dutch and German. Or Italian Slovenian. Polish and any other Slavic language...
I understand neely not reacting. Even if you see his point, everything he coul have said makes it worse.
Thank you
As a Portuguese speaking musician, i think it's a shoddy analogy!! Would he say the same of, say, Chinese and Japonese?!
I would
Amigo, pelo amor. É uma analogia razoável, português e espanhol são mega parecidos com um overlap gigante de vocabulário, estrutura etc. Objetivamente. Tem um sistema que categoriza semelhança e português e espanhol são duas das línguas mais similares que tem, o que não é o caso de chinês e japonês.
Spanish and Portugese are extremely closely related languages in the Romance branch of Indo-European language family, but Japanese and Chinese are completely unrelated (except for some word borrowings) and not from the same language family
Sideways seems like he has some pretty serious mental health issues that go well beyond this situation, that are causing him to behave strangely. And his partner is pouring gas on the fire. That said, I'm also not a fan of Adam Neely, so 🤷♂🍿
Why don't you like Adam?
The idea that using the same common metaphor for something in a video on an entirely different topic is plagiarism is patently absurd.
I'm trying to find out if Sideways has really been wronged here and it seems like not? The language comparison as well as the overlap of three sources is cause for suspicion, but the differences are just too stark. The big tell to me is that if Adam was plagiarizing Sideways, why wouldn't he just take the Coco framing device? Adam goes kinda whole hog on his usual repetition legitimizes bit.
I'm also really wary of Sideways just deciding to quit and specifically blaming Neely. Even if you believe you've been plagiarized, this is a bit of an overreaction, especially since Neely took the video down. It's... I dunno, weaponized victimhood?
File under “inside baseball”. If you didn’t care beforehand, you won’t be persuaded to care by this.
Using the same sources to talk about similar topics is not plagiarism
Oh, good lord. Unless it's blatantly lifted word for word, you can't call something plagiarism when it's just two people citing similar sources on a similar topic. Sounds like one guy let his channel stagnate and wants to grab views off someone who hasn't.
Really well thought out video, thanks for explaining all this so well
The traditional weird western door design needs to end. Ugly door.
Then we have the Urbanist TH-cam that plagarise eachother all the time and links to eachother again and again even if there is plagarilm. 😂
Not posting videos for two years because you feel someone has used your ideas twice sounds somewhat passive-aggressive. Not posting videos for two years has to have deeper reasons than that, regardless of any impressions that someone might be using your work.
If you're teaching the fundamentals of any craft, especially ones that have existed for hundreds or thousands of years, you don't get to claim plagiarism when someone else does it in a similar way. Period. You owe more to everyone who came before you than anyone owes you. Imagine suing someone over "Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge", or creating internet beef over someone teaching cross-hatching. Some people seriously need to get a life.
Can I just add a couple things? I’m someone who is knowledgeable about music theory and studied music in college but didn’t get a degree, and also studies languages.
To my ear - and I’m older so I studied well before you did - hearing “like Spanish and Portuguese” does sound weird from an English-speaker. Spanish and Portuguese are closely related, but while lots of English speakers are familiar with Spanish, very few people are familiar with Portuguese. It’s just not an example many people are going to intuitively understand because most people could not tell you how closely related Spanish and Portuguese actually are. For an English-speaker I would think dialects of English would be more apropos? And is this really a reasonable way to think about it? Languages just don’t relate to each other the way keys do. As both a language nerd and a music nerd I don’t know. I don’t know if it really is as commonly taught that was as you say in schools today, but as someone who didn’t learn that way it definitely sounded weird, and then to hear the same slightly sketchy analogy twice? Someone needs a better analogy.
Secondly, the issue is not plagiarism, and I think the folks framing it that way are not helping. It doesn’t have to be plagiarism to be unethical and worthy of social sanction. I don’t really have an opinion here, but I think in small creative fields like this it pays to be super-generous about mentioning people who inspire you. To me the videos seem close enough in time and topic that it’s hard to believe one didn’t inspire the other, and that deserved to be mentioned. It only takes a moment, it makes you look generous which is always desireable in a creative field, and it doesn’t cost you anything. As a blogger back in the day I’ve had my intellectual work ripped off in ways that were not plagiarism, and it feels pretty bad.
I don’t really have an opinion on this case, I’m not familiar enough with the background, but I think a lot of the framing here is wrong. It’s not whether anything is plagiarism or legally actionable. It’s whether someone crossed the hard-to-identify line between ethical borrowing and unethical borrowing, or failed to give credit for intellectual work, and if so, the only real sanction is social.
The issue is that the list of people framing this as plagiarism includes Sideways himself, as evidenced by his video and past tweets, and Sideways mentions in said video that he had been considering (and other people had recommended) taking legal action. I think what you're saying about there being an ethical component here is fair, and there's a conversation to be had about creative minds praising and sharing other people's works more freely than what we normally see happen. I just don't see this situation as being anything egregious.
It was well enough known in the west that spanish and portuguese are similar languages that the Simpson's felt comfortable making a joke where that was the punchline.
Spanish and Portuguese is a very natural comparison when you consider that most English speakers hardly consider the two distinct. Portugal sort of gets lumped in with the rest of the Iberian peninsula, making the point that Spanish and Portuguese are related an intuitive one (probably even more intuitive for those who don't actually know the languages that well). I would even say it's easier to grasp than, say, Cockney vs. RP, given that geographic proximity.
An even simpler possibility is that Neely's a bit more familiar with Portuguese than the average speaker through his well-documented interest in bossa nova. In either case, I don't think there is enough evidence for Sideways' overall accusations of plagiarism (which they are) to make this one a red flag or even a suspicious coincidence.
@@stopmakingeyesatme1290I was actually about to point out that Neely has mentioned his love of the Portuguese language and alluded to a broader interest in Brazilian culture in numerous videos, the one on "The Girl from Ipanema" being the most notable example. Like, if there's an Adam Neely bingo card, the "BRAZIL MENTIONED" meme is a square. :P
I'm not denying that your experience has left you with this impression. But from my impression as a native British English speaker (where spanish is nowhere near as broadly spoken as it is in the US) and as a linguistics grad, is that people aren't necessarily familiar with the languages themselves, but most people are aware of the fact that they are very closely related. Could they tell you and explain WHY they are closely related? Probably not, but most people know that they are as it is just general knowledge
Out-Jerked again!
How does one (Sideways) own the rights to a source material... the source has been published and is owned by the publisher. Seems like a PR stunt based on my initial thoughts. Attempting to own analogies - again are baseless, perhaps they want to own a chord, or a groove next. Stink of entitlement to try and presume ownership of intellectual property. Wow.
At least we still have 12Tone. 12Tone would never abandon me.
He copied all 12 tones. Sad.
seeing this yea this stinks of sideways not understanding plagiarism, and frankly speaking im not surprised. i got very little from his videos and the bit patricia taxxon highlights is genuinely some of the worst theorising ive ever seen; claiming there cant be any tension in a four chord loop is absolutely ludicrous and a massively reductive lens that fails to consider anything other than harmony, like say, advancing melodies, changing rhythms, harmonic or otherwise, arrangement, studio mixing tricks, etc. real berklee (derogatory) energy from his work
Rhett shull rips off everything and everyone, how come no one notices that?
Ecclesiastes 1:9
Lol he stopped making videos entirely because of this? What a baby.
Adam Neely, didn't properly site his sources (maybe) which is ironic considering how many times he actually presses the importance of proper sourcing. It's a mistake but it's one that happens throughout academia. It's not like he's the only one who's made this same mistake either.
But he did cite them lol
@@angelmendez-rivera351 Then I don't understand what Sideways, is on about. It's a thing on TH-cam for different creators to *riff* (not rip) off each other's videos. One creator will make a video and then another will expound on the topics of previous videos. It's even kind of how music itself evolves.
Personally, I disagree with the analysis of the languages metaphor. I have never heard it used at all during my time in school, and to me it doesn't sound like even a very good one - it seems like an analogy that mostly helped one very specific person with very specific life experiences (Sideways) understand a concept, and Neely took it and tried to pass it as some grand, universal truth.
I think, honestly, If you don't have a background in music, you might think that this is a decent analogy that two people independently mentioned. But especially with the knowledge that they both used the exact same languages as a specific example makes it even more suspect.
It's difficult to make a concrete point with the language analogy because it is almost entirely anecdotal examples that are being thrown around - I can only vouch for my lived experience which aligns with many music theorists and scholars who are tweeting about the subject. Doesn't mean it's the most effective analogy ever, but clearly people have encountered it a decent bit.
The Spanish-Portuguese comparison just doesn't register as egregious at all for the reasons I outline in the video - if Sideways had made a comparison between Cantonese and Vietnamese (or Kjunguja and Swahili) and Adam brought up the same example in the Vox video, that would raise more eyebrows to me because most Americans would not think to make that comparison. Even a relatively culturally unaware American is going to be able to pull out Spanish and Portuguese as an example of similar languages.
@@musicdeepdive That's fair - I have had several people I talked to about this say that that analogy is something they have heard before, so maybe I'm in the minority here as someone who didn't think it to be common.
Edit: yeeeaaaahhh... I'm starting to think Sideways is losing it, which is really sad.
It was more than just Spanish/Portuguese wasn’t it? Like, the entire analogy used the same keys and languages, iirc
One of them used C and G for the keys and one of them used C and F. Using C as an example key to make a point is as Music Theory 101 as it gets, and I find it hard to believe Adam going the opposite direction around the circle of fifths was some sinister way of covering his tracks. Again, it would certainly be impossible to prove in any legal setting.
As someone who didn't study music, but who did study the *meaning* of music, I think the distinction between those two things could possibly explain your comment if you studied music on a practical level.
I don't think I've encountered many musicians saying that music is like a language, especially in practical settings. But that analogy does get made quite a fair bit by people writing about music on a cultural level, especially when you go back and read stuff written further back in time. If I remember rightly, there's even debate within those spheres about how apt that metaphor is.
It took me a good 5 minutes while watching this to think of Swedish/Norwegian/Danish as an alternative example. Nothing else leapt to mind that's more obvious than Spanish/Portugese.
I just clicked on this because I wanted to know wtf kind of drama Adam Neely/musicology TH-cam would be involved in.
Here's what I think:
Have you considered a career outside of musicology in ASMR, my guy?
Maybe even audiobooks..?
Musicologist social media influencer with hundreds of videos accidentally touches upon the same subjects and sources as a musicologist social media influencer with 57 videos. More news at 10. Since they love analogies so much, how about we describe this as like "somehow individually playing a note in the same pitch class". Parallel octaves...
This was a very informative opinion piece video that approached the subject matter with respect and dignity, and I find this drama to be wholly dreary, so this is both where I start and stop following it. I wish both parties the best, and hope they can reach a -peaceful resolution- perfect cadence. Merry Christmas!
Whole lotta nothing
I don’t buy the personal anecdote that anyone in music theory uses the language analogy. I live with someone with a background in music theory (who it so happens went to college with Ethan) and he says he never heard of it. It also sounds like you’re saying Adam didn’t plagiarism Sideways’s further Spanish-Portuguese analogy because it’s too easy of an idea to come up with? Some actual sourcing for your assertions here would be appreciated, because not even Adam could provide an example of that kind of analogy in his self-defense on Twitter.
The last source in the video description answers your first (also personally anecdotal) point. The argument isn't that literally everyone uses it - it's that the analogy is common. The TH-cam comments and Twitter discussions (in that thread as well as more recent ones) where numerous people with theory backgrounds have professed hearing this analogy adds to this.
I already discussed your second point in another response in this comments section. If you can point me to a pair of similar languages more identifiable to Americans than Spanish and Portuguese - two objectively similar languages that are spoken in the Americas - I'd love to hear them. Other commenters made a point that I didn't mention in the video: Neely has studied bossa nova and even made a video about it (th-cam.com/video/OFWCbGzxofU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rqlWCDI7HmDFlY0W), so he has a working knowledge of Portuguese that may not be academic by any means, but is at least beyond your average Joe-schmo American. All the more evidence of him being able to come up with that comparison independent of Sideways' video.
I could even point you to a Wikipedia article (initially created in 2006) that says Spanish and Portuguese are "closely related Romance languages" that "share a great number of words that are spelled identically or almost identically". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Portuguese_and_Spanish
@@musicdeepdive Obviously Spanish and Portuguese are more similar to each other than they are to an East Asian language. But to specifically make this observation with a language analogy to describe the relationship of key signatures using the visual of a circle of fifths? That's clearly lifted from Sideways. No ifs, ands, or buts. We know Adam has "borrowed" from him in the past. And considering how clearly influential Sideways is, I'm curious as to exactly when this language analogy started making the rounds in music circles. His video is seven years old. If all you have regarding this are personal anecdotes, it only seems right for you to give Sideways the benefit of the doubt. Check out the end of NAETE's video "Adam Neely is Wrong About... A LOT." This is clearly an instance of plagiarism.
@@jaycejohnson6846 I don't think you understand how the word "clearly" is used, and it's pretty telling that you were given loads of evidence that go beyond just personal anecdote, and you decided to just ignore them. Your biases are a hell of a force to reckon with.
@@angelmendez-rivera351 I'd be interested to know what this evidence is.
the content bandwagon has produced a sudden witch hunt on youtube for plagiarism that doesn't exist
Exactly.
Reminds me of that one HRBomberGuy vid.
What the hell is all of this
+
Not familiar with the controversy, just not a fan of Neely, who makes you tolerate his humble bragging in breaks between his typical smug arrogance, all while learning nothing - he has the charm and educational skills of an insurance salesman. Neely is more interested in commodifying himself than spreading knowledge (TH-cam is his hustle, music is at best his side hustle); if you don’t find that off-putting, more power to you.
This is a really weird take tbh. You can dislike him or find him smug, that’s fine, I can see that, but Including footage from your shows is hardly a “humble brag,” it’s… including footage from your shows. And it’s weird to say that having two forms of income are a “hustle” and “side hustle,” especially when both careers are clearly in conversation with one another like in this cass
@@harrylane4 Right? Also very weird how in a discussion that is about plagiarism and nothing else, this person managed to uncritically bash Neely without addressing the controversy itself at all. The comment reads like Internet masturbation.