I havent watched Jan in a while but from what I remember he would always respond with something along the lines of "its a self-imposed challenge in a kids game" to people in his audence who would get mad about other players not using "true" nuzlocke rules, he never personally tried to push an elitist mindset with nuzlocking and always emphaisized how having fun was most important, the level of challenge he imposed on himself is just what's fun for him. I remember this specifically when he didn't care about Jaiden redoing the elite four in her Platinum nuzlocke while his audence flipped their lid over it. Unfortunately, sending a message through your content is harder than it seems, and too many people want to make the whole concept of nuzlockeing cometetive instead of something we do for fun
I think Jan has done a better job of narrativizing his videoes as of late, but he and many other people enjoy the min maxing stuff primarily so that cool for them. I think there is space for both more narrative/casual and challenging/minmax nuzlockes to exist.
Yeah. Thats very much the appeal to me on repeat playthroughs for most rpgs. Its the equivalent of the sabermetrics crowd in baseball. Nerds love getting bogged down in the numbers.
Yeah honestly these days it feels like CM is much worse about it than Jan is. Actively refuses to nickname Pokemon unless pressured into it by his co-creator for a video. Frustrated more at the time sink of a death than be moved by the death itself. Literally rather just do protect and de/buff tactics so he can one shot sweep so he doesn't have to think about the fight, no actual strategy in move choice if he can help it. That's the kind of minmaxing that's honestly boring.
Jan recently (a few months ago now) did a playthrough of the Emerald run and bun rom hack which was interesting for how he steadily stopped playing optimally and just played for fun. By the end he knew he was going to fail, and knew the optimal play was to reset and start again, but he just kept on going, with a smile on his face, growing more and more attached to the 6-8 mons he had left. When he did finally fail, he wasn’t sad, he was satisfied, because he had created a story, just like in the old days.
I’m sure you’ve probably seen him before but that’s why I like FlygonHG so much. It’s usually the gameplay of the higher end nuzlockes but he tries hard to tell a story in all of his runs too. The X and Y ones are especially good with how he does the video for the champion every time he fights her. Really, he just has a way for making you care about any Pokémon on his team with basically any screen time
JaidenAnimations’ Nuzlocke videos were what drew me into the idea of a Nuzlocke in the first place. Her method of storytelling is so much fun, and her comedic timing is on point. Jan’s videos are interesting and all, but nothing draws me in like a good story.
I always loved narrative-focused nuzlockes, in my Ultra Sun nuzlocke I was so devastated when Gladion killed 5 members of my team, only for Vanilla Cake the Vikavolt to avenge them all and survive until the end to sacrifice herself against Hau's Noivern, it added so much drama to it all and it wouldn't have been as engaging without it
That reminds me of my Sun Hardcore Nuzlocke where my Lurantis, Cutlass survived 2 squad wipes. One at the Totem Vikavolt and one at Lusamine. I knew I had to take her all the way and we had made it all the way up to Kukui as the last woman standing after the Elite 4. She took out 2 Pokemon but that's all she had in her before she feel. She was a trooper and will always salute her sheer resilience.
I think its just a natural progression of the content. You can only watch "TH-camr who screams a lot" lose a Pokemon because they forgot something basic like which types are super effective so many times before you have a desire to see someone play well. I think theres space for both kinds of the content to exist.
You summed it up super well, while I appreciate the effort and research that goes into the super hard challenge runs videos like Salty's friendlocke and Jaiden's old nuzlocke videos really do put an emphasis on what makes nuzlockes so special.
true , nuzlockes are fun when the person who is playing doesnt know what will be coming . This is why i love watching randomized nuzlockes , no one knows what will be coming.
Tyranitartube is who introduced the idea of nuzlockes to me with Extreme, and I deadass cried when long time members died, that's what made me love nuzlockes, the narrative he crafts is incredible
as someone who grew up with Marriland's nuzlocke series, it makes me sad that kind of thing has sort of waned over the years. It's the entire reason I think nuzlockes are cool and fun
Funnily enough, I've been thinking about making a video essay about Nuzlockes from the more "role play" oriented perspective, but seeing how much the scene has shifted makes me question whether it'd be worth it@@PeridotEX
I kinda like both aspects of nuzlocking, I like thinking about stuff like "Oh if I catch this here by dupe clause I can guarantee that there, or use repels to narrow the pool here" that's fun to do and I like putting some thought into a normal run. I also really love going "That's the Bogey difference babey" when my Linoone Bogey gets double digit flinches in a row and then crying out to the heavens when he gets critted and farted by Maxie's Golbat.
I mean there is room for everyone. Jayden did my favorite story based nuzlocke I also like FlygonHG Alpharad and small ant. There's plenty of narrative driven nuzlockes by so many large creators and I prefer pokemonchallenges above all of them because it's fun seeing someone doing difficult challenges and coming up with new strategies for modded versions of my favorite games. I just don't enjoy regular runs of pokemon anymore they're too easy and I've beaten them all so channels like pkchallenges are such a nice refresher for me and he inspires me to replay some of my old favorites in a more challenging way
I like Jan's videos in the same way as i like a Summoning Salt video. I'm invested in the story of a person overcoming a challenge, not the story-driven approach the Nuzlocke was based on
One of my favourite things about a Nuzlocke are the deaths. It may seem morbid and sadistic but I feel like it's the core to this challenge. The fact that Pokemon can't just faint and come back and hearing the pain in peoples voices when Terrence the Swellow dies to a crit before the Elite Four. It like a beloved character dying in a show. You feel the protagonists' pain but know they'll come out stronger. It's why I shifted to hardcore nuzlockes myself. I knew if I used items then it would be too easy and I know I'm stupid enough to make a mistake that'll cost me like that one time in a Sun Nuzlocke where I refused to use my Espeon Forest (long story with that nickname) for large battles because it was basically my child until he got crit at either the Totem Kommo-o or Mother Beast Lusamine and I never forgave myself.
Jan is cool. It’s more his community that pushes his personal style as the “one true way” to do nuzlockes. He doesn’t actually care what other people do and is very vocal about how it’s cringe to get mad at people over how they play a childrens’ game. Either way though I dislike how his style has spread. Nuzlockes began with webcomics that gave character and personality to Pokemon. It was supposed to be a way to make the games more emotionally resonant, not just harder. Now it’s just all about doing the childrens’ game good.
@@WWASHDThats not how I remember it tbh. I thought It started out as a joke that he is “maybe” the best nuzlocker just bc he’s put in so many hours and beat the hardest games/has a lot of knowledge on them and then that joke spread to his community and other friends like alpharad to the point where they said it. Then after a year and beating emerald kaizo, he just went with it and now says that he’s the “best”. Nothing malicious or anything else
@@WWASHDhe never said he invented nuzlockes, he is part of the first generation of nuzlockers, if you wanna say it like that, and he's the most popular. If he didn't stream, the nuzlocke community would not be what it is today, and that is an irrefutable fact. With that out of the way, how someone else said the "best nuzlocker" thing started out as a joke, among the best players most know that crowning a "best nuzlocker" is close to impossible, every player has a different approach to the games and a different predisposition for a certain type of challanges. Btw even if he's not actively nuzlocking as often these days all the knowledge you built over the years is not something you will just forget, i know this cause i dropped pokemon from gen5 to 7, started back in gen8 and the only thing i had to learn was the new things, but i didn't forget anything about pokemon pretty much.
This is pretty interesting! I think you're right about nuzlockes being engaging because they provide a narrative, though I would be harsher. "Expert gamer beats difficult game" is trivia, "weedle sole survivor of nuzlocke run" is a story. I think it works well outside of this, too. Consider the hardcore minecraft streamer Ph1lza, who only went viral after he died in his hardcore run. "Expert gamer plays hardcore minecraft for 5 years" is trivia, "expert gamer's 5-year run defeated by baby zombie" is a story.
Then find those story to watch and stop watch all these "expert" as you put it No one force you to watch something you don't like, and stop forcing people to watch what they like
@@notsolong Lol, I specifically don't watch stuff that isn't interesting to me. I'm not forcing you to do anything. It's literally impossible for me to do so. If hearing an opposing opinion from a stranger makes you feel forced to do something, I think you should reconsider your motivations behind watching something in the first place. You shouldn't rely on the approval of strangers
pchal and chaotic meatball nuzlockes feel joyless and whiny. Like they’re doing it out of obligation, which they probably are since poketubing has been in the trenches for years at this point
I would also probably radiate sheer joylessness if I accidentally centered my entire career around one specific kind of Pokemon challenge run and got stuck doing it forever because that's what my audience came to see
@@SodaCrab If I opened a video by complaining about a dip in viewership in-between installments of that series (chaotic meatball actually did this), I’d probably do some reflecting I think
To expand upon this, the issue I have with modern nuzlockes is that they really cater to this mode of playing the game (calcs and etc) when in reality, most people who would want to play a rom, don't want to dedicate that level of commitment. The games are being made for streamers who need the extreme, instead of being a tough, but fair experience without significant previous knowledge.
My favorite part about Nuzlockes is that they force you to use Pokemon you otherwise wouldn't choose for your team, which deepens your appreciation for that Pokemon and broadens your appreciation of the Pokedex and how the game structures availability. Did a Normal Nuzlocke of Pokemon Y and got a ton of use out of Furfrou and Wigglytuff. Also learning that a lot of the Victory Road trainers pack Focus Blast was a surprise lol
I think there’s a difference between causal and competitive nuzlocking, and that the competitive aspect of it is growing more and people are missing the casual side. I feel like this kinda growth is inevitable with any game. The magic disappears once you take it that seriously.
@@MsMoonDragoon first: He said it multiples times, he use other people's nuzzlock as a learning tool to explain what did go wrong, how it was avoidable etc, not to mock them, and that yes he jokes about it because it makes the video more entertaining than a simple analisys. second: "bully"... Bruh... go get bullied for real before opening your mouth pls. Also they're friend and are in realy good therms, why are YOU (litteraly nobody) getting upset in their stead?
Playing a blind nuzlocke is genuinely the most enjoyable balance of fun and pain and strategy and adaption I've ever experienced. I couldn't recommend it higher.
I think part of this is that youtube as a platform has started awarding specialized channels more and more. Before Nuzlockes could be done by "Gaming" youtubers cause they felt like getting some footage and heard about this fun unique way to do it and they would get some extra views. While now Nuzlockes are done by Nuzlockers to be condensed into 1 video they put out weekly. Being specifically a "Nuzlocker" will inevitably make you inherently better at the game and having to be on the 1 video a week grind will make being efficient and not losing a bunch early on a necessity so of course you're gonna be damage calcing through the whole thing.
This is something I felt a lot. Having game knowledge is one thing but knowing the exact way the AI behaves and running stat calcs I think reduces the game down to a series of equations on a graphing calculator. I do a soft level cap for this reason, budgeting xp feels really weird and forces bad play over the most minimal advantage. I aim for the cap and really don’t try to go over it but if it happens it happens. I also do all of the post game, I think that builds upon the story in a cool way. Beating Wallace in Emerald wasn’t enough, I had to go beat Steven too.
I mean, that is the point for those more extreme form of challenges: be as unforgiving as possible. This is not really a problem with nuzlocke tho, this is a problem with "nuzlock content". These people are content creators, ofc they'll go to lenth that no sane person doing something for fun on their free time would actually do (They might be doing for fun too, but I doubt it since even PChall had a burnout phase. They force themselves to do it because that's their job, and that's what people find entertaining to watch: the struggle)
To elaborate, it's essentially a difficulty hack, but reasonable. You're able to get insane Pokemon, due to the random encounters. So while your opponents have crazy teams, you can to. It makes it so that misplays may not cost you the run, but it will take a valuable team member. The random movesets also made for some awesome fan art, like Victribell using Sacred Fire and Transform. It's also a cool story driven nuzlocke, because the game itself has insane story changes. There are secret battles, like Emerald's leader Juan, there's insane lore, a new mega evolution that has to be discovered, and a few custom pokemon. It's playable too now I think, these developers called EXR made a recreation of it up to the champion fight (no delta episode), and fans in the server are working on polishing and finishing the game.
Even though Jan is the best Nuzlocker in terms of knowledge and experience, my all time favourite will probably always be Marriland. Back when he did a lot of Nuzlockes specifically for TH-cam (he did streamed ones later but they weren't the same), I enjoyed the amount of knowledge / self imposed difficulty he'd add, while still having a good amount of investment in his teams. For example people would make fan art of his teams pokemon, and anytime one died, he'd add to the video a little funeral for them and a tribute showing off all the art made for that pokemon. It was great and it made you as a viewer care about the pokemon. His Wedlocke variant is also probably my favourite Nuzlocke variant too, since it's not only difficult, but because your team becomes three teams of 2, you get a lot more invested in your pokemon.
I feel like the best story-driven nuzlocke series we've ever gotten was that modded Alpha Sapphire series by TyranitarTube. Either that or I'm just extremely nostalgic.
Ttar had some other modded Pokémon game series as well. His latest finished one was a modded divine Diamond nuzlocke and his modded sword nuzlocke is about to end soon. They’re really similar to his alpha sapphire series
Yeah that's because it was made to be a cool story. Most people aren't doing a "story based" game, they're doing vanilla pokemon. TyranitarTube's Alpha Sapphire Extreme Randomizer Nuzlocke is probably the most unique one. The team members are also iconic.
The nuzlocking feels like almost second to the reason why I watch those extreme randomizers (entertaining stories and lore + commentary over actual gameplay) not to mention the general familiarity and vibes of tyranitartube channel
at a fundamental level, almost every game I can think of transforms into an entirely different experience when played at a high level. it's like the difference between survival and score runs in arcade games, or your first playthrough of a game versus a speedrun. it's only natural to think of super mario 64 levels in a new way when you're focusing on movement mastery, camera management, and consistency. there's a slow progression from casual to pro, where you enjoy the game and its mechanics and want to challenge yourself, and that's what nuzlockes are about too. when players enjoy a game, they build communities and witness their own success at overcoming obstacles along with others' stories. high level communities are a beautiful thing to observe and be a part of, but I feel like the progression aspect of that is lost in youtube videos, especially when less experienced players focus on imitating the top level (like speedruns) without being ready for it. a lot of youtubers try to imitate the best of the best by trying hard nuzlockes or speedruns for "content" which is a perfectly fine niche (in moderation), however it doesn't work with the modern day skill ceiling of those challenges. you'd need to do some serious research before attempting to make a video like that. now that more hardcore nuzlockes are being popularized, the challenge has transformed into being more of a planning puzzle game with damage calculations and stuff, and people who played for years have cleanly adapted to the change. it would be too overwhelming to just jump into the deep end without experience; it's far from what a casual player would have the patience to get into doing, and I don't think it should be "normalized" over the classic story approach. the number 1 rule in game design for designing a smooth experience is steady exposure to new mechanics. it helps players feel like they're being challenged and getting good, regardless of skill level. being highly skilled isn't everything in a game, and doesn't always make for good entertainment (like 30 mins of teambuilding+damage calcs before every trainer). something I see a lot in games with high skill ceilings is top players being expected to be perfect and tas-like, and top players who don't have as much passion for the game come, burn out, and go, as they stop seeing the game as a "game", and more like a vessel for being good. when youtubers or top players feel pressure to over-perform, it's very common to lose sight of why they play the game in the first place. (I struggle a lot with the harmful mindset of pressuring myself too hard and comparing my skill to others, but with experience I learned to keep in mind that improvement isn't a competition). casual play and top level play can exist in the same community at the same time, but there needs to be a clear distinction between them so players don't set unrealistic expectations for themselves (and the pro gamers need to be kind to the noobs). jan often drives home the point that you should always play with whatever nuzlocke rules you find fun, and to not let anyone tell you the right way to play the game. this is extremely important but often overlooked advice that can only come from someone who gets a lot of enjoyment and passion out of what they do. they want everyone to feel the way they did when they had their own clyde the scatterbug, even if they're long past that point. no matter what your preferred way of playing the game is, everyone deserves to have the passion to remember their own "story of clyde", and once you experience that, it makes sense why this arbitrary video game challenge is still around
I agree completely! The skill progression is a lot of fun, and I've done my fair share of more challenging runs. I've even pulled out calcs and pre-planned fights turn by turn plenty of times, but that was only after almost a decade of doing these silly little challenges. The hardcore, ultra-strategic runs are entertaining in their own right, I remember enjoying the hell out of Jan's EK saga as it was unfolding, but it's sad that the popularization of these runs have diminished the innocence behind the challenge's concept. It's a phenomenon that happens in a lot more games than just Pokemon. I picked up Valorant recently to play with some friends, and it amazes me how even people at my super low ELO get so frustrated when they aren't immediately meeting the expectations they set for themselves by watching the pros play. So many people are just skipping the part of video games where they have fun, build a passion for a game, and then use that passion as a reason to improve. Video games are for fun at the end of the day! Skill comes with time, and time with a game comes organically from enjoyment!
The whole origin for nuzlocke was a character building story. I'll never forget the nuzlocke comics that's started this all I used to read them weekly it wasnt about hard mode pokemon, the story he created around it was the main focus
I feel like that this video makes a lot of sense that there are two kinds of nuzlocks now. The narrative versus the min max while both are challenges the one is about the hourney and the other is about the destination.
This video offers a great perspective that I personally never thought of before. Im someone that does appreciate the meta and min maxing of nuzlockes and I think they def have their place on the platform but having it overshadow the story based, more casual play throughs is something I’ve never concerned. Which is even more ironic considering the term nuzlocke was popularized after someone made a webcomic about their own nuzlocke (Ruby hard mode). With the direction TH-cams been shifting towards tho with a lot of creators focusing on more narrative driven videos tho I do think there’s hope for a resurgence
Honestly the more i look at modern nuzlockes the more i think about Exelblem and how it feels it somehow strikes the balance while being “optimal” and having a somewhat gripping narrative. Because of the environment it’s set in.
Excelblem is a top 5 content creator for me. Top tier scripts, delivery, and editing. Honestly I think Fire Emblem is a way better medium for the kind of things people do with Nuzlockes, but unfortunately Fire Emblem lacks the same mainstream appeal that Pokemon has.
I dunno man. The story of Dewgone the Dewgong in blue kaizo being excited to go to the elite 4 not realizing hes a sac. Hes got a family and the vets on his team are looking real awkward. Top tier storytelling.
I think that roguelike romhack actually adds back a lot of the narrative stuff, even when it's not a nuzzlocke your encounters are still limited, and you really don't know what you're fighting until the fight starts you can't bulbapedia your way to victory
This is my exact feeling. I miss the 5-10 episode nuzlocke series we used to see fun creators that weren't that knowledgeable about the game. Griffin McElroy's Y Nuzlocke on polygon comes to mind. Even someone like Marriland, who was very skilled, found ways to make the story of the Nuzlocke the most interesting part. My favorite part of nuzlockes was always using Pokemon I never would have used otherwise, and getting attached to them. That's what it'll always be about to me
For anyone who wants one of those story based nuzlockes I suggest the Team Four Star Gaming playthroughs. Specifically FireRed and Soul Silver, as they are a connected story
FlygonHG is actually an interesting case, a lot of the time his content falls more on the min-maxed optimized side of the spectrum, maybe with a sprinkling of narrative added in after the fact, but sometimes he'll just drop something like that White 2 Grass Type run he just did. A video like that is an interesting middle ground where the challenge itself is very planned and methodical, but the story built around it afterward is more intricate. It's pretty neat.
The bigger issue with hardcore nuzlockes is that many romhacked versions of pokemon games are simply far too difficult to play unless you are rigorously min maxed. This naturally leads to a different kind of play experience and viewing experience and cultivates certain kinds of streaming/content creating personalities. There is plenty to be done with the easier games, but, facing the algorithm is a brutal reality. If you aren't good or aren't entertaining, your content is dusted without question. Playing content at a high level gets a lot of people to watch, perhaps a lot of people in the comments might say they're in it for the story, but the metrics probably say something very different. Jan's storytelling for his high level nuzlocke's are also solid work in spite of his being essentially raised by the algorithm for his career start. But few have that luxury unless they are doing things purely as a hobby of passion, and very few follow that path.
I didn't actually think about this until this video. My first few nuzlockes were super story focussed and I used to try and do what I could to help the team survive. Now, I don't care about my teams as much and focus on winning rather than survival
I feel like the most apt comparison with Nuzlocking is Speedrunning. They are both different ways of engaging with the game in a more challenging way, and the idea that people don’t get attached to their Pokemon because they’re making a new team is ridiculous, what often ends up happening, with my runs at least, is that instead of getting attached to 6 Pokemon, I get attached to 30, sometimes more, because every team member in my box has a role. Even if that role is to explode and nothing else, that’s still more use than 80% of the Pokemon caught in a Pre-Challenge driven nuzlocke
Ultimately, it's like the difference between watching a playthrough of a new game, or at least the player's first run, and watching speedrunning of a game you and the player have played through dozens of times already. I personally found nuzlockes through the original ruby hard mode comics and loved all of the series they did. I also am bad/casual/lazy enough to enjoy the narrative aspect of my own runs and watch the alpharad/jaiden animation type videod for the same reason. However, I also like watching the optimisation that goes into Jan's runs and genuinely enjoy the personality he brings to it. It's equally as hard making a genuinely compelling and interesting narrative as it is cracking the code for a game like Emerald Kaizo. Just different strokes for different folks at the end of the day whether you are watching or playing yourself.
Nuzlockes are for everyone, and that's why when people ask what rulesets they should start with, people encourage them to start with the basic ruleset so that it is the most fun. That way they can have that story-driven playthrough. I watched the videos of those Emerald Kaizo Nuzlocke coverage, and he tried to play blind for as long as he could, but it just got to a point where it just wasn't feasable, because every trainer was mandatory and potentially dangerous because of the cascading effects of a single death. So even if the story isn't the same, the story isn't there. Bill died, meaning that I didn't have him for X task, meaning that Sherry died, meaning that I didn't have her for Y task, leading to a wipe.
That's why randomized nuzlockes have been so popular imo. The element of surprise is thrown back in the game when you have no idea what you're about to fight. One run you get destroyed by a Raichu in the 6th gym because all your mons somehow are out sped and die to 1 thunder. The next run you have a team full of legendaries with sun boosted abilities and a drought skiploom leading a team of fucking gods to start each battle. If I'm playing by myself, 10/10 times I'm finding a harder game than the last to try and nuz. If I'm playing with a few friends, randomized through and through.
I dig the thesis here. I'm surprised there's not a fangame out there that forces Nuzlocke rules and then has a more dynamic story built around it. I feel like that would do numbers on the platform as soon as it got into the hands of the right people.
Additionally I wanna tell the story of my own nuzlocke. I’ve had a few, but most weren’t noticeable and were left unfinished. But I had a really nice gen 8 run. I went in blind. Pokémon Sword and Shield had just come out. I purposefully avoided as many spoilers as I could going in. I knew about a few, like Corviknight and Wooloo. And I thought some of those were interesting. Additionally, I play without using items during battle. Held items are fine, but bag items are banned. I also was going by the rules of no gigantimax for gym battles, and faints that happen within raid battles don’t count because they were strange and buggy and I didn’t understand them yet. My level cap would also be set at the maximum level that a gym badge earned. I ended up picking Sobble as my starter. Generally my favorite starter type changes between each game. I can usually pick my favorite out immediately. But Gen 8 is the one gen where I didn’t have any particular standout favorite. And I dubbed him Toast. Quickly we were joined by a Rookidee named Rich, a Thievul named Vixen, a Rolycoly named Heelies, a Vanilite named Snowberry (I decided to count the north and south sides of the wild area as two separate locations for this run), and a Pumpkaboo named Frumpkin. Heelies and Rich absolutely wrecked the first gym, no questions asked. I didn’t think I’d care about Heelies very much at first, but he had become a valuable asset to my team. And by the end my Rookidee had evolved and it dawned on me that I had caught a baby Corviknight, one of those few Pokémon I knew about and really wanted. My team wasn’t finalized yet, but it was coming together. Vanilish was one of those Pokémon I always wanted to use. My starter had evolved into a little weirdo but he was my little weirdo, and who can hate a pumpkaboo? We’d head to the next town and obtain the Toxel egg on the way. Oh my goodness, cute baby guy, what will he turn into? I need him, I want him, add him to the team, he’s like a mystery box! Vixen evolved and I didn’t want her onboard anymore, it was an easy enough trade. We’d grind for a bit, get everybody to just about the first badge ‘level cap’ and head out to the second gym. Drednaw enters the stage. I start off with Frumpkin, planning to type advantage my way through this. And Frumpkin gets one shotted. Oh. I’d known him for the shortest amount of time, but I really did want to use a pumpkaboo for a run. I love those lil guys! I’d send out the baby next, knowing I had trained it up a bit over the necessary level. But he also gets knocked out in a single swipe. Alright. That isn’t great. I send out my Pokémon one after the other. My starter, Toast falls at the jaws of this monster. In the end, I leave that gym with one Pokémon left standing. It’s Rich, still here, hanging in the yellows. The Pokémon I was so excited to see, my first catch of the game. The one who knew Toast the longest. Rich would take up his mantle as my starter. And perhaps that’s why I never felt too attached to the gen starters. Toast had died, no other Sobble could fill his place. Rich was my starter for this run moving forward. This left me with a new problem. I had only one Pokémon at the moment. Rich definitely couldn’t solo any upcoming fights. Whatever I ran into on the next route had to be good and I had to catch it. I go out there, there are barnacles everywhere. God fucking damnit, not the goddamn barnacles. I try to run through, deeper into the cave… And I run right into a Whimpod. I would name him Hope. The Hope for this run. Rich and Hope. This set my naming theme for the rest of the game, naming my Pokémon various supportive messages. Rich and Hope would become fast friends, playing together within the camp grounds. Together, they became an unstoppable team, slaying any foe within our path. We’d make it to the next gym with our party at hand. Two Pokémon for the next gym battle was not a pretty sight… But the next gym challenge… It had Pokémon to catch! Enter Lucky the Sizzlepede. I loved him instantly. This was a Pokémon I had never seen before and he was so cool!!! There were litwick as well in the gym and I like litwick and all, but I had never seen a Sizzlepede before… As a trio, we were able to win our third badge and head deeper into the Wild Area where the scary, high level Pokémon lived. I didn’t want to risk the grass in the wild area with its strange level variation. I went for one of the raid battles. There, we made our new friend, Friendship the Trapinch. And I was feeling really good about my team. I had such cool party members, and I was really starting to bond with them. Trapinch’s line has been a favorite of mine since I was a kid. Whimpod’s line was my friend’s favorite Pokémon lines. And both my new guys were Pokémon I instantly came to liking. We’d travel on, fighting, catching things. But nothing that I really considered a main party member. At this point I felt bonded to my team. Nobody could get in unless I felt that they meshed well with everybody else. The ghost gym would go by with no new Pokémon. But in the mushroom forest I would run into… A teacup? There’s a fucking teacup Pokémon? Desteany. It’s name is Desteany. It’s a very valued party member. And Desteany was an interesting addition for they were not strong, but they always came in clutch at the weirdest moments. My little wildcard. In the end, the fairy gym stood no chance against Rich’s iton talons. And neither could the ice gym for that matter. Rich was what any starter should be. Strong. Strong when all the rest of my party was weak. Able to take down enemies I didn’t have a good counter for. He was the one I could rely on when all else failed. As we left to challenge the dark gym, I would head for the grass to get a new friend. Lots of familiar Pokémon around. I feared I would get one of no interest. I wanted something new. Something fresh. As I stepped into the grass, I walked right into somebody I hadn’t seen. Hatenna. Faith. I had it. My new team. Hatenna would grow into a powerhouse with a dex entry to prove it. I’d always stop by the camps throughout the game to let my team bond. Rich and Hope were always together. Always hanging out. The best of friends. Maybe more. I swear Hope and Lucky had a rivalry. They were the only ones who really seemed to fight each other. Faith only seemed to hang out with Desteany, but at least she had a friend. Friendship was well rounded. A playful big guy. All the gyms fell easily to them once they had fully evolved. They were a team of powerhouses, they’d destroy anything in their path. Together, we’d always go into a fight shouting “LETS GET THIS BREAD!!” In memory of Toast. We would end the run with no more deaths. Never again. Rich would not allow such a thing. He had seen a massacre, and if it were ever to threaten again, he could step in to stop it. If not him, then Hope. Everybody would be immortalized in the hall of fame. We did it. We got that fucking bread. Scarlet and Violet I did something a bit different. I matched each gym leader’s team in Pokémon and level. For Team Star battles, I used a team of three Pokémon for each fight. My Moushold, Cheeseburger (Family), my Ghouldengo, and my shiny Lurantis, Zero, named after how many fights he survived. I’d keep their level generally around the recommended around for each star base. Then I used my primary team for Arven’s sandwich mission. The team I used for the Elite Four, consisting of my starter, Quaduck, my Flamigo, Palindrome, my Clodsire, Splash, my Ceruledge whom I can’t remember the name of right now, my Dachbun Puppymochi, and my Pawmot, Poppy. And I took on each challenge one by one. I started with completing the Pokédex. Then I did Arven’s. Then Team Star. Then the Gyms. I kinda realized between the two games that my favorite part of Pokémon is seeing and experiencing all the new Pokémon. I wanted to use as many different Pokémon as I could.
Min maxing in a pokemon nuzlocke with damage calculators and guides is like challenging a bunch of low level chess computers with the highest level chess computer. There is no risk if you just always pick the objectively best move possible, so why wouldn’t you? It turns an already easy game into a solved game.
I understand your perspective, I got into nuzlocke with the original nuzlocke webcomic and was enthralled with all the other webcomics popping up, a petty nuzlocke, pokemon cystal double nuzlocke and first summer, to name a few. So for me Nuzlocke has always been about the narative and so the switch to a strictly skill and mechanical viewpoint was a bit sad for me at first. But accepting that nuzlockes have largely changed (on youtube) made it easier to just enjoy the videos as they are. And then we have some lovely exceptions like Saltydkdan's friendlocke as you mentioned.
This perfectly explained how my pokeboomer ass feels after stopping watching nuzlockes after the King Nappy ordeal and then trying to come back nowadays
Tbh a reason on why I love Folagor and his nuzlockes is even tho he plays them casually compared to everyone else (unless when he's about to lose) he tries to keep you entertained and always wait for 4pm spain time to tune into the next episode albeit by making a bet with his comment section like dying his hair pink for example; his ruleset makes it fair for you and challenging at the same time, specially seeing that he incorporates lives into the mix making it that if you sac a mon it could work for you on the short term but will screw you on the long term; you feel for every death he's had on the run either from rage because of a misplay he made or bad for him because of the insanely horrible luck he's had.
ScykohPlays will always have a place in my heart for having, in my opinion, the most enjoyable nuzlocke content, especially the emerald one I cant tell you how many times I've rewatched it
This is why I love playing randomizer nuzlockes. For me, the fun comes from rolling with your punches, taking what you can get, and thinking on your feet rather than just knowing what's going to happen beforehand.
I actually got to interview a man named Nick in highschool who was the creator of the nuzlocke. I haven't spoken with him in quite some time as I was 14, now 19, the thing he said that stuck out to me the most was that the process of him trying to work with what he had and build a strong core around it, primarily on his 2nd arc during which he played the FRLG games and was fighting Blue on the championship bout, helped him properly construct his narrative. In essence- your technical skills and shortcomings as the player are your story beats and cores as an author. You are rewarded and punished for performing any which way you happen to and you need to be able to work with it. This was my favorite part of reading nuzlocke comics, watching animations, and forum recounts on deviant-art, youtube, and space battle. The problems you're having are sympathetic as a creative but there is an old adage and term- "Every game, no matter how new, in time will be solved." Pokemon are incredibly linear rpgs with exact stats and little variation to begin with in terms of beats narrative cut even shorter by player knowledge as instinct to instinct moments don't exist- this isn't monster hunter where you're actively manuvering or even final fantasy by the time of 7, where turns are on cool downs. It's static until you make a decision. Even Jaiden Animations, who although not casual is not a die hard, knows exact AI behaviors in 3rd and 4th gen games by research. She has thrown on purpose and on accident before for this reason. As a fellow creative, the easiest way to sort of swallow this is two-fold- produce the art you want to see in the world, and then interpret their art differently. Jan (PKMNChallenges) is someone who before was not largely concerned with personality of his pokemon- they are utility, tools to be used as sacrifice, exchange, and commodity in the commerce of life and death, simple as that. If you watch him long enough, you'll notice he does have favorites, and it becomes extremely obvious, as hell often lament minutes to hours after a fatal mistake occurs he will ramble about it out the side of his mouth. You can interpret Jan as the more humane and understandable equivalent to Paul from Diamond and Pearl's Anime- someone obsessed with peak performance, exact calculations, routines when things go wrong- but unlike Paul, it's not abuse, it's necessity. He occupies a world where there is no beyond, there's no second chance. He gives them the best chance at life possible, mourns they that lived and thanks that they died (as morbid as that sounds). It gives him the opportunity to move on with his strategies, challenges and hardships- allows him to continue his narrative, breaking that linearity I mentioned. Mucho texto TLDR- I get where you're coming from, and it is sad to see something go, but from the shell of the dead comes wriggling biomass of new life, your art still exists, it has just changed, and you too can make that art as well. Creation is not insular, it is environmental, ever growing, and simultaneously ever lasting. You hold the very evolution of the art you treasure in your hands, and you can tell what you wrought the lessons which you want to proceed with. Anyways I'm extreemly high and not particulalry intelligent, i just see eomeone very passionate about what makes them happy and contributing to that feels meaningful for both of us to grow, art is enviromental after all.
the points you brought up about what made the nuzlocke feel amazing to play was exactly what felt about with Failboat's Pokemon sun and moon nuzlocke (hes not a pokemon focused youtuber just for anyone who's curious) TL:DR his nuzlocke streams got me super emotionally invested in his team and I felt heart wrenched whenever one of them fell (spoiler warning I guess if you haven't seen it but want to or something like that) I remember he started a nuzlocke with his starter being popplio and things seemed like they were going so well with fail having a pretty solid early game team... only for one lady and her magnemite to completely wipe out his entire team and leaving him with a failed nuzlocke. i remember how i felt watching him boot up a completely new pokemon moon save and how he got a rowlet for a starter while looking completely apathetic towards it. that was only the beginning too. after getting really far into the game fail had gotten over the last nuzlocke for a while now but then lost one of his strongest pokemon, and later on he got a full team wipe against an alolan persian (hes considered it to be his least favourite pokemon after that) and had watch each of his team members get released while he said goodbye to each and every one of them. its still probably one of my favourite nuzlocke streams/videos to this day
I enjoy watching Jan's videos for different reasons then more story like style videos such as Jaidens or others. I feel like it's straight forward, to the point, and the dry humor is (not necessarily funny) but entertaining. Idk Jan's videos have such a specific vibe that I can enjoy from time to time 😅
Yeah a good dry sense of humor is an easy way to make me keep watching lol and I do like the technical stuff he gets into, I like both styles but Jan is just a fun personality for me
Respectfully disagree since I love that whole “I can read the code in the Matrix” level of game knowledge in Jan’s runs but this is still a fantastic vid! Looking forward to more of your content
I started watching nuzlockes because of pokemon rawb and I always loved how he did nuzlockes. He had a rule “no cannon fodder” which meant he couldn’t switch just to sac a mon which made the game so much harder and made the stakes much higher
I agree. My first playthrough of Pokemon Gold was by far the most fun I've ever had playing through a pokemon game, and back then I knew almost nothing about pokemon. Even since I've noticed that pokemon is 1000 time more fun when you don't know what's going on, when you don't care about base stats or natures.
Makes me wish that they would refer to their version of the challenge differently. I wonder how many content creators have read the original nuzlocke comic or any of the fanrun comics that were the life blood of the niche for so long. There are some excellent stories told through those comics and they deserve some recognition
I stumbled onto this video midway through editing my own nuzlocke and i love the points you brought up and will try and use them myself! Excellent video!
I think jan himself is pretty chill and personally i really enjoy watching him and his runs. I think there is genuine story craft in his runs, but obviously the balance in his is more towards strats than story. But i can completely understand why people are turned off by Jan's fans cause god damn they can be fucking annoying sometimes especially on twitch
For me when I use to watch marriland he crafted a story in his nuzlockes and didn't rush anything. He gave the pokemon and even side characters life and for me that was in the spirit of the original Ruby Hard mode comic. It was like a TV show where you got invested in the characters waiting for the next part. Marriland also didn't look up everything mainly just level limits and did it via memory which I find more interesting. How nuzlockes are now a series probably wouldn't perform well on TH-cam but a whole run being in one video where everything is super optimised is just a little boring to me like your taking the fun out of it or do toxic stalling for 90% of the boss fights its just not interesting. I know people will disagree with me here but for me the character has gone and each run I see is just not for me. Play how you like but spice it up and don't do the same things over and over. Change your rulesets or hell do a different challenge other than a HC Nuzlocke
It's like how every modern Gen 4 Nuzlocke, hardcore or not, has that same bloody line almost verbatim: I picked Chimchar, because he's the strongest. Bro. Yeah. It's well documented that it is, but for the love of god someone be brave and pick Turtwig or Piplup. It'd at LEAST make the start of the run interesting.
I love both styles of nuzlockes personally. I’ve enjoyed the creators who made their nuzlocke into a well written story for a video such as Jaidens videos and Alpharad’s. I also enjoy watching people like RT Game who are doing it for fun and even make certain plays for entertainment but still show off their game knowledge. Then I enjoy the Nuzlockes that Jan and other hardcore players do as I learn a lot about the game and I like seeing how they team build and calculate things even if there is no way I would ever play the game like that.
TFS Gaming's Nuzlockes have a special place in my heart for how you feel each death. And even then, their catchphrase is "Shall Not Be Missed!" which is funny as hell.
I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think it’s a problem at all, here’s why 1: storytelling is what you make of it. As a creator, it’s your job to make the story and make everything entertaining, regardless of how you play the game. A good example is Smallant, who does boring grindy challenges like the no damage Platinum run, and even though he swept through the entire game, the strategies made and the way he told it made it one of the most viewed videos in Pokémon as a whole. Jans stories are more about him and his journey of completing the game, not his in game character, and he goes very in depth with his content, which isn’t a problem at all, it’s just not for everyone 2: content comes in many forms. Similar to the last point, when playing a game like Pokémon, it’s important to be playing the way you enjoy most. A lot of people like optimizing the game in interesting ways and adding things to make the game more difficult, because sometimes the gameplay is more enjoyable than the story, which is a pretty fair point considering most nuzlockes regardless of style, substitute Pokémon story with their own. It’s no different from challenge runs in other RPGs like Persona, the only difference with Pokémon is the amount of team options you get compared to other games in the genre, which is interesting regardless of how you present it 3: every game can and will be optimized. It doesn’t matter if it’s Mario Kart, Street Fighter, or Pokémon, there is optimization in every game, but how it functions differs. One of the biggest “challenge” for games is speedrunning, which is very similar to nuzlocking, it’s an arbitrary self imposed challenge that exploits the game through data and knowledge, tbh the only big difference is the stakes and the timer, yet they’re treated entirely differently. You can sweep through a game with a level 80 mon where manipulation is key, or you can plan out every fight because the execution makes the content, either way they are exploiting similar things, and people will gravitate towards it At the end of the day, like this video says, and like every nuzlocker says, play Pokémon in the way that’s most fun for you, but also do the same for watching it, there’s content for everyone in Pokémon and if you don’t like optimized gameplay, and prefer a story, that’s fine. If you like the damage calcs and risk vs reward, with fun rules to limit your strength like no EV grinding, that’s fine too. I referenced Smant before and want to mention other TH-camrs who prove that content and story is what you make of it. Any animation channel, who can create their own interpretations of their Pokémon and player, the best known being Jaiden Ofc. There’s creators who focus on the content and algorithm, like Ludwig or my personal favourite, Alpharad, who faked losing a nuzlocke because the end wasn’t interesting, and relied on storytelling and literary devices to make it entertaining, especially since, as he said, who uploads a highly edited nuzlocke that you lose. FlygonHG is one of the creators who bridges personal story with top level nuzlocking and it’s always a nice change of pace. Even outside of nuzlockes there’s shiny hunters, speed runners like PulseEffects, random arbitrary challenge goers like Johnstone, competitive story tellers like Wolfey, and competitive influencers like Cybertron. MandJTV is someone who admits to their distaste of nuzlockes but still does fun and goofy games and challenges. Do what you want and ENJOY POKÉMON
@@mysticsquirtle5109 Yeah that's fair. I'm really not a fan of the direction nuzlockes went but it is what it is. Lots of people enjoy it and that's fine. I guess where it irked me (aside from ditching the characterizations and heart of the stories) was how a lot of these videos feel hyper-optimized to the search engine and how video sharing works nowadays. Again, that's not a bad thing but it bugs me because it shows how differently the entire scene is nowadays.
This is a good, interesting video on Nuzlockes Now, I am subbed to PChal and FlygonHG and I love watching their playthroughs, the strategies they come up with, the difficult fights, these kinda things really push the player to their limits against games that can be very punishing (especially the ROM hacks), I like seeing the min maxing Hell, that's how I play stuff in general, and I've done exactly one Nuzlocke myself before (in White 2) and watching PChal in particular helped me learn and strategize But... It also does feel like these are one, seemingly the ONLY Pokemon challenge content out there, two, feel much more.. clinical? surgical? I'm not sure, but every playthrough is now down to an exact science, even factoring in RNG-- you plan for as many possible outcomes as you can, the resource management, and three, these seem to be the ONLY way to play these games now and if you aren't even just playing the games regularly, it's like, who cares, why would you play it quote "wrong" unquote It feels like everyone focuses more on the challenge rather than the story, but I also can't fault them for that Because it is still fun to watch and, presumably, even with long sessions of calcs and shit, fun to play, fun to see the execution In my very own Nuzlocke, I themed the whole playthrough after characters from Fire Emblem Thracia 776, an infamously difficult and frustrating Fire Emblem game And while I tried to min max and play as best as I could, I ended up making some boneheaded mistakes right before the end and that nearly cost me the run, only managing to win with exactly one Pokemon left alive (Excadrill) But even with those mistakes, I named each Pokemon after a character from the game and I'd tie their actual character stories together with the story unfolding as I played For example, my Elite Four team was Excadrill (Mareeta), Bisharp (Galzus), Stoutland (Eyvel), Electivire (Tanya), Darmanitan (Dagdar), and Lapras (Nanna) VERY Fighting weak, and half of the team died to Marshal, meaning I had to take on the rest and Iris with only three Pokemon What made this all the more tragic was that Stoutland, Lapras, and Darmanitan were all named after close relatives and family for the other three Eyvel is Mareeta's foster mother, Tanya is Dagdar's daughter, Nanna is Mareeta's friend Then against Iris, Bisharp and Darmanitan had to go down swinging for me to win-- Mareeta's long lost father Galzus, who only reunites with her at the end of the game, had to be separated from her once more, and Dagdar here not only lost his daughter, but his own life, all of this leaving Mareeta by her lonesome To sum up, I basically tore families apart for the sake of victory, and when put in that context it sounds awful, but a mix of my own mistakes and needed what had to be done to win made my first Nuzlocke quite the experience You don't really like... you just don't see any of this in Nuzlockes now, because obviously, people are better at this than I am, they're more skilled, they wouldn't have victory come down to the wire like that, nor would they name Pokemon in such a manner (it's often just anagrams or city names or whatever), so there's nothing tying them all together like this I don't know if I have a point with this, I just wanted to talk about my Nuzlocke experience, and I can't see Nuzlocke content changing at all ever, it's just gonna be done with harder and harder games and ROM hacks, and it'll be fun to watch the min maxing and gameplay, and that's about it
The thing is, when you have a certain degree of game knowledge, grinding doesn't pose any threat, so it has none of that tension. It's just time consuming.
I agree with idea that nuzlockes should stick with the attachment and story you are telling when playing them. A bad nature means nothing if that Pokémon become your surprise ace. I remember losing many times to challenge difficultly of White 2 so when I finally beat the game with two Pokémon I had since the beginning, I was ecstatic! It really was like a D&D adventure and that’s why I like playing them. I love drama and angst mixed with action and humor.
Well Mr. Crab, you’ve caught me. I like Jan’s stuff for the challenge but love your idea of a story driven nuzlocke. I would be very interested in watching you run through your favorite Pokémon game hardcore nuzlocke and see these stories develop!
As someone who is a math person, I think it is really cool too see all of the damage calculations, and the amount of planning. You are right it is a completely different genre with a completely different goal than what early nuzlocking was. Some of my favorite nuzlockes watch were the ones where people were trying to nuzlocke sword and shield while playing the game blind because it was more storytelling than damage calculation
I've always thought there's something bizarre about Kaizo Nuzlockes, in that they lose the appeal of both Kaizos and Nuzlockes. The whole thing becomes almost entirely pre-determined and it's just a dice roll if you get through it or not.
Exactly. like there's only one team that can actually beat emerald kaizo if you play with hardcore nuzlock rules. if the pokemon don't have good enough ivs or you get crit too much then it's a loss.
@@InsertFunnyThingHere It's part of it, but I'd argue that Kaizo nuzlockes lose nearly all the appeal of that too. You're not playing a challenging game like even a normal player who wants a challenge would, you're just following the worlds longest step. by. step. guide. where doing anything wrong instantly dooms you, where your actions are entirely dictated around manipulating AI, there's just nothing fun about that to me.
@@Leafsw0rd I can see it but it's not like every kaizo hack forces you to do the exact same thing step by step to not instantly die, very few actually come very close to that.
@@Leafsw0rdthen it not for you. You don't like it don't play it. No one is forcing you to play a kaizo game. It's like complaining about people playing 0% growth in Fire Emblem.
I think its sad that i cant enjoy old school nuzlocke content anymore. But i feel that its more like im growing up rather than the scene is changing. Sure, HC Nuzlockes are much more common now, but i dont feel like watching someone blow through a main series game or the frustrating feeling when the youtuber makes obvious missplays. Randomized nuzlockes are boring, regular nuzlockes are boring. HC Nuzlockes are way more strategic and interesting. Its sad that the sentiment each pokemon had is almost completely gone, but instead we get to see someone go throug 100+ runs to beat it and thats what makes it sentimental to me
I think one of the best PokeTuber of the Nuzlocke genre is Tyranitartube. Getting a team to make a Randomized Alpha sapphire, Sun, Sword games, and even nuzlocking hard fan games. His nuzlockes are like nothing else seen on the platform because nobody else really cares for the Nuzlocke or respects the Nuzlocke. Ttar goes out of his way sometimes to make the nuzlocke harder if he notices something might be to easy or broken. And when a pokemon Dies... he crafts a story montage for them. But im not saying that Randomizing your game or playing a fan game fixes the problem. Like you said in your vid, Poketubers now dont care for the narrative of the story of the game anymore cuz they've either played the game to hell and back or just only care about the content of beating the game. TTar actually got into the story of each game and spread his run over multilple episode because he actually reads dialogue, and you can see from his fanbase that they also care fore the story and have favorite characters or pokemon that TTAR used.
I think the biggest reason for this shift is the fact that "Let's Plays" as a video genre are dead. With a long running nuzlocke series it was easier and encouraged to make it story-based/driven, especially as you as a viewer had time to bond with the mons as well. Nowadays every run is condensed into a 15-35 min video and thus the minmaxing stuff becomes priority.
I think in a video reacting to a run AlphaRad did - there was a really clutch, pop off moment happening - and Jan said something along the lines of "this is hype, this is good content, but this could all have been avoided if he played better" and really killed the magic of the moment. That was my moment of realising the point of this video here.
Yeah, I really didn't like Jan's reaction content. Besides the usual "reaction content is lazy" thing, he was overly pretentious at times and ruined exciting moments at times
My standout nuzlocke Pokemon was Star the Solrock in Emerald. I named all my encounters after hockey teams, hence the impeccable naming. I brought them along for Winona because I had no other Rock-types, and went into it planning to encore her Swablu and then go for a setup sweep with another Pokemon. I encored it, hit it with Toxic for chip damage...and Winona immediately switched out into Altaria as I went into my setup sweeper. Apparently the AI is smart enough to account for having Natural Cure! So I'm staring down the Dragon Dancing menace with a Pokemon that will get folded by a boosted Earthquake. Enter Star, who was immune to Earthquake, boosted perpendicular to Altaria with Cosmic Power to nullify Dragonbreath and proceeded to tank their way through Winona's entire gym. I was ride or die with Star from then on, and went all the way to the champion with me. Ultimately, Star's journey ended at the finish line. They had learned Explosion just before the Elite Four, and I knew Juan wasn't going to be kind to my floating space rock. Star came in on a Gyarados Earthquake, finished it off with Rock Slide, then came in again on Whiscash's Earthquake. Rock Slide wouldn't do the trick this time, so Star went out in a blaze of glory to secure the win. Godspeed, Star.
I really liked how this video was done. I can understand the story part of a nuzlocke. And I think that you can experience some sort of story even in harder nuzlockes with calcs and such. In my Renegade Platinum nuzlocke, I was using rare candies, calcs, docs, Bulbapedia, etc. Yet I still had some attachment to some Pokémon. My Aggron was helpful in so many fights so I was sad that I didn’t bring him to the e4. I ended up losing that attempt anyway but we don’t talk about that. Anyhow, I’m glad you aren’t judging others for how they play which is something I find really infuriating when watching other vids like this one. Velersifuck specifically is just so out of his mind it’s crazy.
Nuzlockes evolved this way because the games are still easy af even with a million added rules, and people want to challenge themselves. There's still room for storytelling and Pchal himself is a good example of that. People who think he's an annoying person most likely only watched the Onix clip out of context and called it a day.
honestly i don't like playing nuzlocks but i see why some people do but i just enjoy the causal experience of playing Pokémon i will watch nuzlocks though
a rule in my nuzlockes which always led to me caring about my team was that I couldn't switch out my party. Only way I was getting new team members was if someone died, and I was not going to just kill one of my team members, that's jim, he's been with me since route 4, I can't just let him die!
My new hotness is grabbing a bunch of random shiny eggs and having my friends pick what I can hatch from each area, and making scarlet or violet a boss rush with the kitakami dlc because without any grinding everything lines up perfectly, it feels like classic pokemon, with all the randomness of encounters, and no crazy limitations (except on items) having a team of random literal babies I trained myself go all the way to the elite 4 and beyond is great
personally, I'm the opposite. I love the pure stats and prep side of it, working out rolls and min maxing teams for the E4. But, I can completely get how someone could prefer the story of it all, and I'm glad that we have both sides available for us all to enjoy and draw as many people as possible to nuzlocking as a whole.
A very important part of the Nuzlocke is that one Pokemon who you encountered instead of the one you REALLY wanted/needed. Sometimes, it's just as simple as your plans going wrong. Other times, though, that replacement Pokemon you underestimate ends up being incredibly important and carries the game when no one else could. You had H*CK the Audino, I had Starcrust the Skarmory. I was so disappointed I got her instead of something or other, but I absolutely never would've survived Ultra Necrozma without her, even with my prior knowledge. Unfortunately, she died before making it to the endgame, never even getting into the hall of fame. That surprise, that bond, that heartbreak, is why I play nuzlockes. As I get better at the game, it starts slipping away from me. I don't want to lose that. I want to keep loving my partners and crying when they die. I want to keep groaning angrily as I get a Surskit instead of a Bagon. I want to keep forgetting that X Pokemon has Y move that will absolutely decimate my second form starter. That's the fun of the challenge to me.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I havent watched Jan in a while but from what I remember he would always respond with something along the lines of "its a self-imposed challenge in a kids game" to people in his audence who would get mad about other players not using "true" nuzlocke rules, he never personally tried to push an elitist mindset with nuzlocking and always emphaisized how having fun was most important, the level of challenge he imposed on himself is just what's fun for him. I remember this specifically when he didn't care about Jaiden redoing the elite four in her Platinum nuzlocke while his audence flipped their lid over it. Unfortunately, sending a message through your content is harder than it seems, and too many people want to make the whole concept of nuzlockeing cometetive instead of something we do for fun
I think Jan has done a better job of narrativizing his videoes as of late, but he and many other people enjoy the min maxing stuff primarily so that cool for them. I think there is space for both more narrative/casual and challenging/minmax nuzlockes to exist.
Yeah. Thats very much the appeal to me on repeat playthroughs for most rpgs.
Its the equivalent of the sabermetrics crowd in baseball. Nerds love getting bogged down in the numbers.
Yeah, he’s been much more accepting of custom nuzlockes now.
Yeah honestly these days it feels like CM is much worse about it than Jan is. Actively refuses to nickname Pokemon unless pressured into it by his co-creator for a video. Frustrated more at the time sink of a death than be moved by the death itself. Literally rather just do protect and de/buff tactics so he can one shot sweep so he doesn't have to think about the fight, no actual strategy in move choice if he can help it. That's the kind of minmaxing that's honestly boring.
@@TactlessC Who’s CM? Charamarshmallow? CharismaticallyMalodorous? Chump Meat?
Actually true, that one Collab vid with Jaiden on black w/blaze black 2 for example
Jan recently (a few months ago now) did a playthrough of the Emerald run and bun rom hack which was interesting for how he steadily stopped playing optimally and just played for fun. By the end he knew he was going to fail, and knew the optimal play was to reset and start again, but he just kept on going, with a smile on his face, growing more and more attached to the 6-8 mons he had left. When he did finally fail, he wasn’t sad, he was satisfied, because he had created a story, just like in the old days.
I'm gonna cry. No like, seriously.
I love the eulogies he gave off in his winning attempt. Alan Turing, Garibaldi, Cervantes, Neils Bohr and PYTHAGORAS were some real ones.
I’m sure you’ve probably seen him before but that’s why I like FlygonHG so much. It’s usually the gameplay of the higher end nuzlockes but he tries hard to tell a story in all of his runs too. The X and Y ones are especially good with how he does the video for the champion every time he fights her. Really, he just has a way for making you care about any Pokémon on his team with basically any screen time
AntlerBoyLive is also a good option
Spheal Team 6 by FlygonHG is a real masterpiece
I don't know I feel like FlygonHG doesn't have a story in his nuzlockes than is really interesting and tbh I find it a little nonsensical
plus he kinda cringe
@@rpghero46 the irony of calling someone cringe when talking about Pokemon Nuzlockes. Who isn't slightly cringe who makes that sort of content?
JaidenAnimations’ Nuzlocke videos were what drew me into the idea of a Nuzlocke in the first place. Her method of storytelling is so much fun, and her comedic timing is on point. Jan’s videos are interesting and all, but nothing draws me in like a good story.
Same. I don't really care about learning docs or optimal catch lists but I want to care about the mons I get and the story that comes from them
Came here to say this, Her Platinum Video feels like a masterclass in Pokémon storytelling.
@@EsmerladaPlum
Master class is, um
It's a description alright
I always loved narrative-focused nuzlockes, in my Ultra Sun nuzlocke I was so devastated when Gladion killed 5 members of my team, only for Vanilla Cake the Vikavolt to avenge them all and survive until the end to sacrifice herself against Hau's Noivern, it added so much drama to it all and it wouldn't have been as engaging without it
That reminds me of my Sun Hardcore Nuzlocke where my Lurantis, Cutlass survived 2 squad wipes. One at the Totem Vikavolt and one at Lusamine. I knew I had to take her all the way and we had made it all the way up to Kukui as the last woman standing after the Elite 4. She took out 2 Pokemon but that's all she had in her before she feel. She was a trooper and will always salute her sheer resilience.
I think its just a natural progression of the content. You can only watch "TH-camr who screams a lot" lose a Pokemon because they forgot something basic like which types are super effective so many times before you have a desire to see someone play well. I think theres space for both kinds of the content to exist.
you can just say ludwig
You summed it up super well, while I appreciate the effort and research that goes into the super hard challenge runs videos like Salty's friendlocke and Jaiden's old nuzlocke videos really do put an emphasis on what makes nuzlockes so special.
true , nuzlockes are fun when the person who is playing doesnt know what will be coming . This is why i love watching randomized nuzlockes , no one knows what will be coming.
Tyranitartube is who introduced the idea of nuzlockes to me with Extreme, and I deadass cried when long time members died, that's what made me love nuzlockes, the narrative he crafts is incredible
tyranitartube was absolutely amazing ! glad to find someone else talking about him
as someone who grew up with Marriland's nuzlocke series, it makes me sad that kind of thing has sort of waned over the years. It's the entire reason I think nuzlockes are cool and fun
Marriland's HGSS wedlocke might be the most memorable TH-cam series I watched when I was younger. I liked it so much.
Man, I miss those early nuzlocke series so much
Funnily enough, I've been thinking about making a video essay about Nuzlockes from the more "role play" oriented perspective, but seeing how much the scene has shifted makes me question whether it'd be worth it@@PeridotEX
This comment just unlocked a core memory for me
@@PeridotEX That series was so damn good man, my favourite Pokétuber series of all time
I kinda like both aspects of nuzlocking, I like thinking about stuff like "Oh if I catch this here by dupe clause I can guarantee that there, or use repels to narrow the pool here" that's fun to do and I like putting some thought into a normal run.
I also really love going "That's the Bogey difference babey" when my Linoone Bogey gets double digit flinches in a row and then crying out to the heavens when he gets critted and farted by Maxie's Golbat.
I mean there is room for everyone. Jayden did my favorite story based nuzlocke I also like FlygonHG Alpharad and small ant. There's plenty of narrative driven nuzlockes by so many large creators and I prefer pokemonchallenges above all of them because it's fun seeing someone doing difficult challenges and coming up with new strategies for modded versions of my favorite games. I just don't enjoy regular runs of pokemon anymore they're too easy and I've beaten them all so channels like pkchallenges are such a nice refresher for me and he inspires me to replay some of my old favorites in a more challenging way
I like Jan's videos in the same way as i like a Summoning Salt video. I'm invested in the story of a person overcoming a challenge, not the story-driven approach the Nuzlocke was based on
One of my favourite things about a Nuzlocke are the deaths. It may seem morbid and sadistic but I feel like it's the core to this challenge. The fact that Pokemon can't just faint and come back and hearing the pain in peoples voices when Terrence the Swellow dies to a crit before the Elite Four. It like a beloved character dying in a show. You feel the protagonists' pain but know they'll come out stronger. It's why I shifted to hardcore nuzlockes myself. I knew if I used items then it would be too easy and I know I'm stupid enough to make a mistake that'll cost me like that one time in a Sun Nuzlocke where I refused to use my Espeon Forest (long story with that nickname) for large battles because it was basically my child until he got crit at either the Totem Kommo-o or Mother Beast Lusamine and I never forgave myself.
Jan is cool. It’s more his community that pushes his personal style as the “one true way” to do nuzlockes. He doesn’t actually care what other people do and is very vocal about how it’s cringe to get mad at people over how they play a childrens’ game.
Either way though I dislike how his style has spread. Nuzlockes began with webcomics that gave character and personality to Pokemon. It was supposed to be a way to make the games more emotionally resonant, not just harder. Now it’s just all about doing the childrens’ game good.
He doesn't care so much that he cant avoid crowning himself Best Nuzlocker in the World 😂😂😂😂
If u don't like the style don't play it like that lol it literally doesn't affect you at all
@@WWASHDThats not how I remember it tbh. I thought It started out as a joke that he is “maybe” the best nuzlocker just bc he’s put in so many hours and beat the hardest games/has a lot of knowledge on them and then that joke spread to his community and other friends like alpharad to the point where they said it. Then after a year and beating emerald kaizo, he just went with it and now says that he’s the “best”. Nothing malicious or anything else
@@slipperyanklez9641 Bro he isn't anymore, he's Just milking the fact that he invented Nuzlockes which isn't true
@@WWASHDhe never said he invented nuzlockes, he is part of the first generation of nuzlockers, if you wanna say it like that, and he's the most popular. If he didn't stream, the nuzlocke community would not be what it is today, and that is an irrefutable fact.
With that out of the way, how someone else said the "best nuzlocker" thing started out as a joke, among the best players most know that crowning a "best nuzlocker" is close to impossible, every player has a different approach to the games and a different predisposition for a certain type of challanges. Btw even if he's not actively nuzlocking as often these days all the knowledge you built over the years is not something you will just forget, i know this cause i dropped pokemon from gen5 to 7, started back in gen8 and the only thing i had to learn was the new things, but i didn't forget anything about pokemon pretty much.
This is pretty interesting! I think you're right about nuzlockes being engaging because they provide a narrative, though I would be harsher. "Expert gamer beats difficult game" is trivia, "weedle sole survivor of nuzlocke run" is a story. I think it works well outside of this, too. Consider the hardcore minecraft streamer Ph1lza, who only went viral after he died in his hardcore run. "Expert gamer plays hardcore minecraft for 5 years" is trivia, "expert gamer's 5-year run defeated by baby zombie" is a story.
Then find those story to watch and stop watch all these "expert" as you put it
No one force you to watch something you don't like, and stop forcing people to watch what they like
@@notsolong Ah, yes. Don't criticize trends. Just stay in your own bubble.
@@notsolong Lol, I specifically don't watch stuff that isn't interesting to me. I'm not forcing you to do anything. It's literally impossible for me to do so. If hearing an opposing opinion from a stranger makes you feel forced to do something, I think you should reconsider your motivations behind watching something in the first place. You shouldn't rely on the approval of strangers
pchal and chaotic meatball nuzlockes feel joyless and whiny. Like they’re doing it out of obligation, which they probably are since poketubing has been in the trenches for years at this point
I would also probably radiate sheer joylessness if I accidentally centered my entire career around one specific kind of Pokemon challenge run and got stuck doing it forever because that's what my audience came to see
@@SodaCrab If I opened a video by complaining about a dip in viewership in-between installments of that series (chaotic meatball actually did this), I’d probably do some reflecting I think
@@bigotbently9612 That is extremely depressing
To expand upon this, the issue I have with modern nuzlockes is that they really cater to this mode of playing the game (calcs and etc) when in reality, most people who would want to play a rom, don't want to dedicate that level of commitment. The games are being made for streamers who need the extreme, instead of being a tough, but fair experience without significant previous knowledge.
My favorite part about Nuzlockes is that they force you to use Pokemon you otherwise wouldn't choose for your team, which deepens your appreciation for that Pokemon and broadens your appreciation of the Pokedex and how the game structures availability. Did a Normal Nuzlocke of Pokemon Y and got a ton of use out of Furfrou and Wigglytuff. Also learning that a lot of the Victory Road trainers pack Focus Blast was a surprise lol
I think there’s a difference between causal and competitive nuzlocking, and that the competitive aspect of it is growing more and people are missing the casual side. I feel like this kinda growth is inevitable with any game. The magic disappears once you take it that seriously.
I don’t really understand how you can possibly compete on a nuzlocke. It’s a solitary and unique experience.
@@hb-robo People have done Nuzlocke races before, but when I say “competitive”, I mean high-level and ultra serious play.
Espik jumpscare
If theres a difference why does PC bully youtubers like jayden and alpharad who are just having fun with it?
@@MsMoonDragoon first: He said it multiples times, he use other people's nuzzlock as a learning tool to explain what did go wrong, how it was avoidable etc, not to mock them, and that yes he jokes about it because it makes the video more entertaining than a simple analisys.
second: "bully"... Bruh... go get bullied for real before opening your mouth pls. Also they're friend and are in realy good therms, why are YOU (litteraly nobody) getting upset in their stead?
this is the reason i love tyranitartube so much. Everyone of his pokemon deaths feel like a beloved character in a series dying.
shoutout to the original nuzlocke comic
Playing a blind nuzlocke is genuinely the most enjoyable balance of fun and pain and strategy and adaption I've ever experienced. I couldn't recommend it higher.
I think part of this is that youtube as a platform has started awarding specialized channels more and more. Before Nuzlockes could be done by "Gaming" youtubers cause they felt like getting some footage and heard about this fun unique way to do it and they would get some extra views. While now Nuzlockes are done by Nuzlockers to be condensed into 1 video they put out weekly. Being specifically a "Nuzlocker" will inevitably make you inherently better at the game and having to be on the 1 video a week grind will make being efficient and not losing a bunch early on a necessity so of course you're gonna be damage calcing through the whole thing.
This is something I felt a lot. Having game knowledge is one thing but knowing the exact way the AI behaves and running stat calcs I think reduces the game down to a series of equations on a graphing calculator. I do a soft level cap for this reason, budgeting xp feels really weird and forces bad play over the most minimal advantage. I aim for the cap and really don’t try to go over it but if it happens it happens. I also do all of the post game, I think that builds upon the story in a cool way. Beating Wallace in Emerald wasn’t enough, I had to go beat Steven too.
I mean, that is the point for those more extreme form of challenges: be as unforgiving as possible.
This is not really a problem with nuzlocke tho, this is a problem with "nuzlock content".
These people are content creators, ofc they'll go to lenth that no sane person doing something for fun on their free time would actually do (They might be doing for fun too, but I doubt it since even PChall had a burnout phase. They force themselves to do it because that's their job, and that's what people find entertaining to watch: the struggle)
TyranitarTube's Alpha Sapphite Nuzlocke is probably the best story driven nuzlocke that will ever exist imo
To elaborate, it's essentially a difficulty hack, but reasonable. You're able to get insane Pokemon, due to the random encounters. So while your opponents have crazy teams, you can to. It makes it so that misplays may not cost you the run, but it will take a valuable team member.
The random movesets also made for some awesome fan art, like Victribell using Sacred Fire and Transform.
It's also a cool story driven nuzlocke, because the game itself has insane story changes.
There are secret battles, like Emerald's leader Juan, there's insane lore, a new mega evolution that has to be discovered, and a few custom pokemon.
It's playable too now I think, these developers called EXR made a recreation of it up to the champion fight (no delta episode), and fans in the server are working on polishing and finishing the game.
Better than Spheal Team Six?
Even though Jan is the best Nuzlocker in terms of knowledge and experience, my all time favourite will probably always be Marriland. Back when he did a lot of Nuzlockes specifically for TH-cam (he did streamed ones later but they weren't the same), I enjoyed the amount of knowledge / self imposed difficulty he'd add, while still having a good amount of investment in his teams. For example people would make fan art of his teams pokemon, and anytime one died, he'd add to the video a little funeral for them and a tribute showing off all the art made for that pokemon. It was great and it made you as a viewer care about the pokemon. His Wedlocke variant is also probably my favourite Nuzlocke variant too, since it's not only difficult, but because your team becomes three teams of 2, you get a lot more invested in your pokemon.
I feel like the best story-driven nuzlocke series we've ever gotten was that modded Alpha Sapphire series by TyranitarTube. Either that or I'm just extremely nostalgic.
Ttar had some other modded Pokémon game series as well. His latest finished one was a modded divine Diamond nuzlocke and his modded sword nuzlocke is about to end soon. They’re really similar to his alpha sapphire series
ur just nostalgic that shits just ass
Yeah that's because it was made to be a cool story. Most people aren't doing a "story based" game, they're doing vanilla pokemon.
TyranitarTube's Alpha Sapphire Extreme Randomizer Nuzlocke is probably the most unique one.
The team members are also iconic.
The nuzlocking feels like almost second to the reason why I watch those extreme randomizers (entertaining stories and lore + commentary over actual gameplay) not to mention the general familiarity and vibes of tyranitartube channel
Oh my god, this comment just hit me with a wave of nostalgia. Those were great times
The original nuzlocke was a fucking webcomic.
at a fundamental level, almost every game I can think of transforms into an entirely different experience when played at a high level. it's like the difference between survival and score runs in arcade games, or your first playthrough of a game versus a speedrun. it's only natural to think of super mario 64 levels in a new way when you're focusing on movement mastery, camera management, and consistency. there's a slow progression from casual to pro, where you enjoy the game and its mechanics and want to challenge yourself, and that's what nuzlockes are about too. when players enjoy a game, they build communities and witness their own success at overcoming obstacles along with others' stories.
high level communities are a beautiful thing to observe and be a part of, but I feel like the progression aspect of that is lost in youtube videos, especially when less experienced players focus on imitating the top level (like speedruns) without being ready for it. a lot of youtubers try to imitate the best of the best by trying hard nuzlockes or speedruns for "content" which is a perfectly fine niche (in moderation), however it doesn't work with the modern day skill ceiling of those challenges. you'd need to do some serious research before attempting to make a video like that. now that more hardcore nuzlockes are being popularized, the challenge has transformed into being more of a planning puzzle game with damage calculations and stuff, and people who played for years have cleanly adapted to the change. it would be too overwhelming to just jump into the deep end without experience; it's far from what a casual player would have the patience to get into doing, and I don't think it should be "normalized" over the classic story approach. the number 1 rule in game design for designing a smooth experience is steady exposure to new mechanics. it helps players feel like they're being challenged and getting good, regardless of skill level. being highly skilled isn't everything in a game, and doesn't always make for good entertainment (like 30 mins of teambuilding+damage calcs before every trainer).
something I see a lot in games with high skill ceilings is top players being expected to be perfect and tas-like, and top players who don't have as much passion for the game come, burn out, and go, as they stop seeing the game as a "game", and more like a vessel for being good. when youtubers or top players feel pressure to over-perform, it's very common to lose sight of why they play the game in the first place. (I struggle a lot with the harmful mindset of pressuring myself too hard and comparing my skill to others, but with experience I learned to keep in mind that improvement isn't a competition). casual play and top level play can exist in the same community at the same time, but there needs to be a clear distinction between them so players don't set unrealistic expectations for themselves (and the pro gamers need to be kind to the noobs). jan often drives home the point that you should always play with whatever nuzlocke rules you find fun, and to not let anyone tell you the right way to play the game. this is extremely important but often overlooked advice that can only come from someone who gets a lot of enjoyment and passion out of what they do. they want everyone to feel the way they did when they had their own clyde the scatterbug, even if they're long past that point. no matter what your preferred way of playing the game is, everyone deserves to have the passion to remember their own "story of clyde", and once you experience that, it makes sense why this arbitrary video game challenge is still around
I agree completely! The skill progression is a lot of fun, and I've done my fair share of more challenging runs. I've even pulled out calcs and pre-planned fights turn by turn plenty of times, but that was only after almost a decade of doing these silly little challenges. The hardcore, ultra-strategic runs are entertaining in their own right, I remember enjoying the hell out of Jan's EK saga as it was unfolding, but it's sad that the popularization of these runs have diminished the innocence behind the challenge's concept. It's a phenomenon that happens in a lot more games than just Pokemon. I picked up Valorant recently to play with some friends, and it amazes me how even people at my super low ELO get so frustrated when they aren't immediately meeting the expectations they set for themselves by watching the pros play. So many people are just skipping the part of video games where they have fun, build a passion for a game, and then use that passion as a reason to improve. Video games are for fun at the end of the day! Skill comes with time, and time with a game comes organically from enjoyment!
Extremely well put
The whole origin for nuzlocke was a character building story. I'll never forget the nuzlocke comics that's started this all I used to read them weekly it wasnt about hard mode pokemon, the story he created around it was the main focus
I feel like that this video makes a lot of sense that there are two kinds of nuzlocks now. The narrative versus the min max while both are challenges the one is about the hourney and the other is about the destination.
This video offers a great perspective that I personally never thought of before. Im someone that does appreciate the meta and min maxing of nuzlockes and I think they def have their place on the platform but having it overshadow the story based, more casual play throughs is something I’ve never concerned. Which is even more ironic considering the term nuzlocke was popularized after someone made a webcomic about their own nuzlocke (Ruby hard mode). With the direction TH-cams been shifting towards tho with a lot of creators focusing on more narrative driven videos tho I do think there’s hope for a resurgence
Extreme-narrative Kirby Nuzlocke incoming.
@@MODatHTDH I do try to focus on a story when I make those vids so I guess in a way I'm already trying to adopt that mindset
@@DonShnack Yeah I realize the last one already had voice acting and everything, so I don't know how much more narrative based you can get lol
Honestly the more i look at modern nuzlockes the more i think about Exelblem and how it feels it somehow strikes the balance while being “optimal” and having a somewhat gripping narrative. Because of the environment it’s set in.
Excelblem is a top 5 content creator for me. Top tier scripts, delivery, and editing. Honestly I think Fire Emblem is a way better medium for the kind of things people do with Nuzlockes, but unfortunately Fire Emblem lacks the same mainstream appeal that Pokemon has.
I dunno man. The story of Dewgone the Dewgong in blue kaizo being excited to go to the elite 4 not realizing hes a sac. Hes got a family and the vets on his team are looking real awkward. Top tier storytelling.
I think that roguelike romhack actually adds back a lot of the narrative stuff, even when it's not a nuzzlocke
your encounters are still limited, and you really don't know what you're fighting until the fight starts you can't bulbapedia your way to victory
This is my exact feeling. I miss the 5-10 episode nuzlocke series we used to see fun creators that weren't that knowledgeable about the game. Griffin McElroy's Y Nuzlocke on polygon comes to mind. Even someone like Marriland, who was very skilled, found ways to make the story of the Nuzlocke the most interesting part.
My favorite part of nuzlockes was always using Pokemon I never would have used otherwise, and getting attached to them. That's what it'll always be about to me
For anyone who wants one of those story based nuzlockes I suggest the Team Four Star Gaming playthroughs.
Specifically FireRed and Soul Silver, as they are a connected story
i think the more recent flygonhg vids do a decent balance, having a narritive story but also still trying to have optimized gameplay.
FlygonHG is actually an interesting case, a lot of the time his content falls more on the min-maxed optimized side of the spectrum, maybe with a sprinkling of narrative added in after the fact, but sometimes he'll just drop something like that White 2 Grass Type run he just did. A video like that is an interesting middle ground where the challenge itself is very planned and methodical, but the story built around it afterward is more intricate. It's pretty neat.
The bigger issue with hardcore nuzlockes is that many romhacked versions of pokemon games are simply far too difficult to play unless you are rigorously min maxed. This naturally leads to a different kind of play experience and viewing experience and cultivates certain kinds of streaming/content creating personalities. There is plenty to be done with the easier games, but, facing the algorithm is a brutal reality. If you aren't good or aren't entertaining, your content is dusted without question. Playing content at a high level gets a lot of people to watch, perhaps a lot of people in the comments might say they're in it for the story, but the metrics probably say something very different. Jan's storytelling for his high level nuzlocke's are also solid work in spite of his being essentially raised by the algorithm for his career start. But few have that luxury unless they are doing things purely as a hobby of passion, and very few follow that path.
I didn't actually think about this until this video. My first few nuzlockes were super story focussed and I used to try and do what I could to help the team survive. Now, I don't care about my teams as much and focus on winning rather than survival
I feel like the most apt comparison with Nuzlocking is Speedrunning. They are both different ways of engaging with the game in a more challenging way, and the idea that people don’t get attached to their Pokemon because they’re making a new team is ridiculous, what often ends up happening, with my runs at least, is that instead of getting attached to 6 Pokemon, I get attached to 30, sometimes more, because every team member in my box has a role. Even if that role is to explode and nothing else, that’s still more use than 80% of the Pokemon caught in a Pre-Challenge driven nuzlocke
I couldn't agree more. Nuzzlocke were supposed to make you care about Pokémon... Nuzzlockers today won't even nickname them.
Ultimately, it's like the difference between watching a playthrough of a new game, or at least the player's first run, and watching speedrunning of a game you and the player have played through dozens of times already.
I personally found nuzlockes through the original ruby hard mode comics and loved all of the series they did. I also am bad/casual/lazy enough to enjoy the narrative aspect of my own runs and watch the alpharad/jaiden animation type videod for the same reason. However, I also like watching the optimisation that goes into Jan's runs and genuinely enjoy the personality he brings to it.
It's equally as hard making a genuinely compelling and interesting narrative as it is cracking the code for a game like Emerald Kaizo. Just different strokes for different folks at the end of the day whether you are watching or playing yourself.
Was a fun and interesting video either way, though!
Nuzlockes are for everyone, and that's why when people ask what rulesets they should start with, people encourage them to start with the basic ruleset so that it is the most fun. That way they can have that story-driven playthrough.
I watched the videos of those Emerald Kaizo Nuzlocke coverage, and he tried to play blind for as long as he could, but it just got to a point where it just wasn't feasable, because every trainer was mandatory and potentially dangerous because of the cascading effects of a single death. So even if the story isn't the same, the story isn't there. Bill died, meaning that I didn't have him for X task, meaning that Sherry died, meaning that I didn't have her for Y task, leading to a wipe.
That's why randomized nuzlockes have been so popular imo. The element of surprise is thrown back in the game when you have no idea what you're about to fight. One run you get destroyed by a Raichu in the 6th gym because all your mons somehow are out sped and die to 1 thunder. The next run you have a team full of legendaries with sun boosted abilities and a drought skiploom leading a team of fucking gods to start each battle. If I'm playing by myself, 10/10 times I'm finding a harder game than the last to try and nuz. If I'm playing with a few friends, randomized through and through.
Just for that team of legendary to be beat by a level 25 shuckle
I dig the thesis here. I'm surprised there's not a fangame out there that forces Nuzlocke rules and then has a more dynamic story built around it. I feel like that would do numbers on the platform as soon as it got into the hands of the right people.
Additionally I wanna tell the story of my own nuzlocke. I’ve had a few, but most weren’t noticeable and were left unfinished.
But I had a really nice gen 8 run.
I went in blind. Pokémon Sword and Shield had just come out. I purposefully avoided as many spoilers as I could going in. I knew about a few, like Corviknight and Wooloo. And I thought some of those were interesting. Additionally, I play without using items during battle. Held items are fine, but bag items are banned. I also was going by the rules of no gigantimax for gym battles, and faints that happen within raid battles don’t count because they were strange and buggy and I didn’t understand them yet. My level cap would also be set at the maximum level that a gym badge earned.
I ended up picking Sobble as my starter. Generally my favorite starter type changes between each game. I can usually pick my favorite out immediately. But Gen 8 is the one gen where I didn’t have any particular standout favorite. And I dubbed him Toast.
Quickly we were joined by a Rookidee named Rich, a Thievul named Vixen, a Rolycoly named Heelies, a Vanilite named Snowberry (I decided to count the north and south sides of the wild area as two separate locations for this run), and a Pumpkaboo named Frumpkin.
Heelies and Rich absolutely wrecked the first gym, no questions asked. I didn’t think I’d care about Heelies very much at first, but he had become a valuable asset to my team. And by the end my Rookidee had evolved and it dawned on me that I had caught a baby Corviknight, one of those few Pokémon I knew about and really wanted. My team wasn’t finalized yet, but it was coming together. Vanilish was one of those Pokémon I always wanted to use. My starter had evolved into a little weirdo but he was my little weirdo, and who can hate a pumpkaboo?
We’d head to the next town and obtain the Toxel egg on the way. Oh my goodness, cute baby guy, what will he turn into? I need him, I want him, add him to the team, he’s like a mystery box! Vixen evolved and I didn’t want her onboard anymore, it was an easy enough trade.
We’d grind for a bit, get everybody to just about the first badge ‘level cap’ and head out to the second gym.
Drednaw enters the stage.
I start off with Frumpkin, planning to type advantage my way through this.
And Frumpkin gets one shotted.
Oh.
I’d known him for the shortest amount of time, but I really did want to use a pumpkaboo for a run. I love those lil guys!
I’d send out the baby next, knowing I had trained it up a bit over the necessary level. But he also gets knocked out in a single swipe.
Alright. That isn’t great. I send out my Pokémon one after the other. My starter, Toast falls at the jaws of this monster.
In the end, I leave that gym with one Pokémon left standing. It’s Rich, still here, hanging in the yellows. The Pokémon I was so excited to see, my first catch of the game. The one who knew Toast the longest. Rich would take up his mantle as my starter. And perhaps that’s why I never felt too attached to the gen starters. Toast had died, no other Sobble could fill his place. Rich was my starter for this run moving forward.
This left me with a new problem. I had only one Pokémon at the moment. Rich definitely couldn’t solo any upcoming fights. Whatever I ran into on the next route had to be good and I had to catch it.
I go out there, there are barnacles everywhere. God fucking damnit, not the goddamn barnacles. I try to run through, deeper into the cave…
And I run right into a Whimpod. I would name him Hope. The Hope for this run. Rich and Hope. This set my naming theme for the rest of the game, naming my Pokémon various supportive messages.
Rich and Hope would become fast friends, playing together within the camp grounds. Together, they became an unstoppable team, slaying any foe within our path.
We’d make it to the next gym with our party at hand. Two Pokémon for the next gym battle was not a pretty sight… But the next gym challenge… It had Pokémon to catch!
Enter Lucky the Sizzlepede. I loved him instantly. This was a Pokémon I had never seen before and he was so cool!!! There were litwick as well in the gym and I like litwick and all, but I had never seen a Sizzlepede before… As a trio, we were able to win our third badge and head deeper into the Wild Area where the scary, high level Pokémon lived.
I didn’t want to risk the grass in the wild area with its strange level variation. I went for one of the raid battles. There, we made our new friend, Friendship the Trapinch. And I was feeling really good about my team. I had such cool party members, and I was really starting to bond with them. Trapinch’s line has been a favorite of mine since I was a kid. Whimpod’s line was my friend’s favorite Pokémon lines. And both my new guys were Pokémon I instantly came to liking.
We’d travel on, fighting, catching things. But nothing that I really considered a main party member. At this point I felt bonded to my team. Nobody could get in unless I felt that they meshed well with everybody else. The ghost gym would go by with no new Pokémon. But in the mushroom forest I would run into…
A teacup?
There’s a fucking teacup Pokémon?
Desteany. It’s name is Desteany. It’s a very valued party member. And Desteany was an interesting addition for they were not strong, but they always came in clutch at the weirdest moments. My little wildcard.
In the end, the fairy gym stood no chance against Rich’s iton talons. And neither could the ice gym for that matter. Rich was what any starter should be. Strong. Strong when all the rest of my party was weak. Able to take down enemies I didn’t have a good counter for. He was the one I could rely on when all else failed.
As we left to challenge the dark gym, I would head for the grass to get a new friend. Lots of familiar Pokémon around. I feared I would get one of no interest. I wanted something new. Something fresh. As I stepped into the grass, I walked right into somebody I hadn’t seen.
Hatenna. Faith.
I had it. My new team. Hatenna would grow into a powerhouse with a dex entry to prove it. I’d always stop by the camps throughout the game to let my team bond. Rich and Hope were always together. Always hanging out. The best of friends. Maybe more.
I swear Hope and Lucky had a rivalry. They were the only ones who really seemed to fight each other.
Faith only seemed to hang out with Desteany, but at least she had a friend.
Friendship was well rounded. A playful big guy.
All the gyms fell easily to them once they had fully evolved. They were a team of powerhouses, they’d destroy anything in their path.
Together, we’d always go into a fight shouting “LETS GET THIS BREAD!!” In memory of Toast.
We would end the run with no more deaths. Never again. Rich would not allow such a thing. He had seen a massacre, and if it were ever to threaten again, he could step in to stop it. If not him, then Hope.
Everybody would be immortalized in the hall of fame.
We did it.
We got that fucking bread.
Scarlet and Violet I did something a bit different. I matched each gym leader’s team in Pokémon and level. For Team Star battles, I used a team of three Pokémon for each fight. My Moushold, Cheeseburger (Family), my Ghouldengo, and my shiny Lurantis, Zero, named after how many fights he survived. I’d keep their level generally around the recommended around for each star base. Then I used my primary team for Arven’s sandwich mission. The team I used for the Elite Four, consisting of my starter, Quaduck, my Flamigo, Palindrome, my Clodsire, Splash, my Ceruledge whom I can’t remember the name of right now, my Dachbun Puppymochi, and my Pawmot, Poppy. And I took on each challenge one by one. I started with completing the Pokédex. Then I did Arven’s. Then Team Star. Then the Gyms.
I kinda realized between the two games that my favorite part of Pokémon is seeing and experiencing all the new Pokémon. I wanted to use as many different Pokémon as I could.
Min maxing in a pokemon nuzlocke with damage calculators and guides is like challenging a bunch of low level chess computers with the highest level chess computer. There is no risk if you just always pick the objectively best move possible, so why wouldn’t you? It turns an already easy game into a solved game.
As a culprit of those sweaty nuzlockes, i really enjoyed the video and the case you made!
I understand your perspective, I got into nuzlocke with the original nuzlocke webcomic and was enthralled with all the other webcomics popping up, a petty nuzlocke, pokemon cystal double nuzlocke and first summer, to name a few. So for me Nuzlocke has always been about the narative and so the switch to a strictly skill and mechanical viewpoint was a bit sad for me at first. But accepting that nuzlockes have largely changed (on youtube) made it easier to just enjoy the videos as they are. And then we have some lovely exceptions like Saltydkdan's friendlocke as you mentioned.
This perfectly explained how my pokeboomer ass feels after stopping watching nuzlockes after the King Nappy ordeal and then trying to come back nowadays
Tbh a reason on why I love Folagor and his nuzlockes is even tho he plays them casually compared to everyone else (unless when he's about to lose) he tries to keep you entertained and always wait for 4pm spain time to tune into the next episode albeit by making a bet with his comment section like dying his hair pink for example; his ruleset makes it fair for you and challenging at the same time, specially seeing that he incorporates lives into the mix making it that if you sac a mon it could work for you on the short term but will screw you on the long term; you feel for every death he's had on the run either from rage because of a misplay he made or bad for him because of the insanely horrible luck he's had.
ScykohPlays will always have a place in my heart for having, in my opinion, the most enjoyable nuzlocke content, especially the emerald one I cant tell you how many times I've rewatched it
This is why I love playing randomizer nuzlockes. For me, the fun comes from rolling with your punches, taking what you can get, and thinking on your feet rather than just knowing what's going to happen beforehand.
I actually got to interview a man named Nick in highschool who was the creator of the nuzlocke. I haven't spoken with him in quite some time as I was 14, now 19, the thing he said that stuck out to me the most was that the process of him trying to work with what he had and build a strong core around it, primarily on his 2nd arc during which he played the FRLG games and was fighting Blue on the championship bout, helped him properly construct his narrative. In essence- your technical skills and shortcomings as the player are your story beats and cores as an author. You are rewarded and punished for performing any which way you happen to and you need to be able to work with it. This was my favorite part of reading nuzlocke comics, watching animations, and forum recounts on deviant-art, youtube, and space battle.
The problems you're having are sympathetic as a creative but there is an old adage and term- "Every game, no matter how new, in time will be solved." Pokemon are incredibly linear rpgs with exact stats and little variation to begin with in terms of beats narrative cut even shorter by player knowledge as instinct to instinct moments don't exist- this isn't monster hunter where you're actively manuvering or even final fantasy by the time of 7, where turns are on cool downs. It's static until you make a decision. Even Jaiden Animations, who although not casual is not a die hard, knows exact AI behaviors in 3rd and 4th gen games by research. She has thrown on purpose and on accident before for this reason.
As a fellow creative, the easiest way to sort of swallow this is two-fold- produce the art you want to see in the world, and then interpret their art differently. Jan (PKMNChallenges) is someone who before was not largely concerned with personality of his pokemon- they are utility, tools to be used as sacrifice, exchange, and commodity in the commerce of life and death, simple as that. If you watch him long enough, you'll notice he does have favorites, and it becomes extremely obvious, as hell often lament minutes to hours after a fatal mistake occurs he will ramble about it out the side of his mouth. You can interpret Jan as the more humane and understandable equivalent to Paul from Diamond and Pearl's Anime- someone obsessed with peak performance, exact calculations, routines when things go wrong- but unlike Paul, it's not abuse, it's necessity. He occupies a world where there is no beyond, there's no second chance. He gives them the best chance at life possible, mourns they that lived and thanks that they died (as morbid as that sounds). It gives him the opportunity to move on with his strategies, challenges and hardships- allows him to continue his narrative, breaking that linearity I mentioned.
Mucho texto TLDR- I get where you're coming from, and it is sad to see something go, but from the shell of the dead comes wriggling biomass of new life, your art still exists, it has just changed, and you too can make that art as well. Creation is not insular, it is environmental, ever growing, and simultaneously ever lasting. You hold the very evolution of the art you treasure in your hands, and you can tell what you wrought the lessons which you want to proceed with.
Anyways I'm extreemly high and not particulalry intelligent, i just see eomeone very passionate about what makes them happy and contributing to that feels meaningful for both of us to grow, art is enviromental after all.
I forgot to leave my name for proper adress, it's Cynthia. Ciao!
the points you brought up about what made the nuzlocke feel amazing to play was exactly what felt about with Failboat's Pokemon sun and moon nuzlocke (hes not a pokemon focused youtuber just for anyone who's curious)
TL:DR his nuzlocke streams got me super emotionally invested in his team and I felt heart wrenched whenever one of them fell
(spoiler warning I guess if you haven't seen it but want to or something like that)
I remember he started a nuzlocke with his starter being popplio and things seemed like they were going so well with fail having a pretty solid early game team... only for one lady and her magnemite to completely wipe out his entire team and leaving him with a failed nuzlocke. i remember how i felt watching him boot up a completely new pokemon moon save and how he got a rowlet for a starter while looking completely apathetic towards it.
that was only the beginning too.
after getting really far into the game fail had gotten over the last nuzlocke for a while now but then lost one of his strongest pokemon, and later on he got a full team wipe against an alolan persian (hes considered it to be his least favourite pokemon after that) and had watch each of his team members get released while he said goodbye to each and every one of them.
its still probably one of my favourite nuzlocke streams/videos to this day
I enjoy watching Jan's videos for different reasons then more story like style videos such as Jaidens or others. I feel like it's straight forward, to the point, and the dry humor is (not necessarily funny) but entertaining. Idk Jan's videos have such a specific vibe that I can enjoy from time to time 😅
Yeah a good dry sense of humor is an easy way to make me keep watching lol and I do like the technical stuff he gets into, I like both styles but Jan is just a fun personality for me
Respectfully disagree since I love that whole “I can read the code in the Matrix” level of game knowledge in Jan’s runs but this is still a fantastic vid! Looking forward to more of your content
Thank you for making this! I loved PBG’s because he experienced a Nuzlocke with humor and sadness rather than calculating everything out. I miss that.
I started watching nuzlockes because of pokemon rawb and I always loved how he did nuzlockes. He had a rule “no cannon fodder” which meant he couldn’t switch just to sac a mon which made the game so much harder and made the stakes much higher
It’s been years since I’ve seen someone else mention Pokemon Rawb. I loved his content.
they aren't playing nuzlockes they are just going through the scientific method
That's why I love randomized teams and encounters. Makes the run always 100% unpredictable.
I'm a simple man, I love both.
I agree. My first playthrough of Pokemon Gold was by far the most fun I've ever had playing through a pokemon game, and back then I knew almost nothing about pokemon. Even since I've noticed that pokemon is 1000 time more fun when you don't know what's going on, when you don't care about base stats or natures.
You dont know how happy it make me seeing Ttar getting his flowers
Makes me wish that they would refer to their version of the challenge differently. I wonder how many content creators have read the original nuzlocke comic or any of the fanrun comics that were the life blood of the niche for so long. There are some excellent stories told through those comics and they deserve some recognition
They do. It’s called a “Hardcore Nuzlocke” for a reason. It’s meant to be fundamentally different
There's very little variety anymore it's almost all HC Nuzlockes and if you've seen one almost all are the same
I stumbled onto this video midway through editing my own nuzlocke and i love the points you brought up and will try and use them myself! Excellent video!
This video implies that both of these nuzlocke perspectives cant exist at the same time when they do
I think jan himself is pretty chill and personally i really enjoy watching him and his runs. I think there is genuine story craft in his runs, but obviously the balance in his is more towards strats than story. But i can completely understand why people are turned off by Jan's fans cause god damn they can be fucking annoying sometimes especially on twitch
For me when I use to watch marriland he crafted a story in his nuzlockes and didn't rush anything. He gave the pokemon and even side characters life and for me that was in the spirit of the original Ruby Hard mode comic. It was like a TV show where you got invested in the characters waiting for the next part. Marriland also didn't look up everything mainly just level limits and did it via memory which I find more interesting. How nuzlockes are now a series probably wouldn't perform well on TH-cam but a whole run being in one video where everything is super optimised is just a little boring to me like your taking the fun out of it or do toxic stalling for 90% of the boss fights its just not interesting. I know people will disagree with me here but for me the character has gone and each run I see is just not for me. Play how you like but spice it up and don't do the same things over and over. Change your rulesets or hell do a different challenge other than a HC Nuzlocke
It's like how every modern Gen 4 Nuzlocke, hardcore or not, has that same bloody line almost verbatim: I picked Chimchar, because he's the strongest. Bro. Yeah. It's well documented that it is, but for the love of god someone be brave and pick Turtwig or Piplup. It'd at LEAST make the start of the run interesting.
I like the idea that when crab is talking he edits it by wiggling a jpeg on top of a background
I love both styles of nuzlockes personally. I’ve enjoyed the creators who made their nuzlocke into a well written story for a video such as Jaidens videos and Alpharad’s. I also enjoy watching people like RT Game who are doing it for fun and even make certain plays for entertainment but still show off their game knowledge. Then I enjoy the Nuzlockes that Jan and other hardcore players do as I learn a lot about the game and I like seeing how they team build and calculate things even if there is no way I would ever play the game like that.
TFS Gaming's Nuzlockes have a special place in my heart for how you feel each death. And even then, their catchphrase is "Shall Not Be Missed!" which is funny as hell.
It did get to the point of them basically cheating, lying about it and getting caught and trying to play it off as a joke iirc
I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think it’s a problem at all, here’s why
1: storytelling is what you make of it. As a creator, it’s your job to make the story and make everything entertaining, regardless of how you play the game. A good example is Smallant, who does boring grindy challenges like the no damage Platinum run, and even though he swept through the entire game, the strategies made and the way he told it made it one of the most viewed videos in Pokémon as a whole. Jans stories are more about him and his journey of completing the game, not his in game character, and he goes very in depth with his content, which isn’t a problem at all, it’s just not for everyone
2: content comes in many forms. Similar to the last point, when playing a game like Pokémon, it’s important to be playing the way you enjoy most. A lot of people like optimizing the game in interesting ways and adding things to make the game more difficult, because sometimes the gameplay is more enjoyable than the story, which is a pretty fair point considering most nuzlockes regardless of style, substitute Pokémon story with their own. It’s no different from challenge runs in other RPGs like Persona, the only difference with Pokémon is the amount of team options you get compared to other games in the genre, which is interesting regardless of how you present it
3: every game can and will be optimized. It doesn’t matter if it’s Mario Kart, Street Fighter, or Pokémon, there is optimization in every game, but how it functions differs. One of the biggest “challenge” for games is speedrunning, which is very similar to nuzlocking, it’s an arbitrary self imposed challenge that exploits the game through data and knowledge, tbh the only big difference is the stakes and the timer, yet they’re treated entirely differently. You can sweep through a game with a level 80 mon where manipulation is key, or you can plan out every fight because the execution makes the content, either way they are exploiting similar things, and people will gravitate towards it
At the end of the day, like this video says, and like every nuzlocker says, play Pokémon in the way that’s most fun for you, but also do the same for watching it, there’s content for everyone in Pokémon and if you don’t like optimized gameplay, and prefer a story, that’s fine. If you like the damage calcs and risk vs reward, with fun rules to limit your strength like no EV grinding, that’s fine too.
I referenced Smant before and want to mention other TH-camrs who prove that content and story is what you make of it. Any animation channel, who can create their own interpretations of their Pokémon and player, the best known being Jaiden Ofc. There’s creators who focus on the content and algorithm, like Ludwig or my personal favourite, Alpharad, who faked losing a nuzlocke because the end wasn’t interesting, and relied on storytelling and literary devices to make it entertaining, especially since, as he said, who uploads a highly edited nuzlocke that you lose. FlygonHG is one of the creators who bridges personal story with top level nuzlocking and it’s always a nice change of pace. Even outside of nuzlockes there’s shiny hunters, speed runners like PulseEffects, random arbitrary challenge goers like Johnstone, competitive story tellers like Wolfey, and competitive influencers like Cybertron. MandJTV is someone who admits to their distaste of nuzlockes but still does fun and goofy games and challenges. Do what you want and ENJOY POKÉMON
Thank you for listening to my TedTalk
@@mysticsquirtle5109 Yeah that's fair. I'm really not a fan of the direction nuzlockes went but it is what it is. Lots of people enjoy it and that's fine. I guess where it irked me (aside from ditching the characterizations and heart of the stories) was how a lot of these videos feel hyper-optimized to the search engine and how video sharing works nowadays. Again, that's not a bad thing but it bugs me because it shows how differently the entire scene is nowadays.
Lifelong pokemon fan, never plan on nuzlocking. I do little goofy self imposed rules like water only or bug only but that's it.
This is a good, interesting video on Nuzlockes
Now, I am subbed to PChal and FlygonHG and I love watching their playthroughs, the strategies they come up with, the difficult fights, these kinda things really push the player to their limits against games that can be very punishing (especially the ROM hacks), I like seeing the min maxing
Hell, that's how I play stuff in general, and I've done exactly one Nuzlocke myself before (in White 2) and watching PChal in particular helped me learn and strategize
But...
It also does feel like these are one, seemingly the ONLY Pokemon challenge content out there, two, feel much more.. clinical? surgical? I'm not sure, but every playthrough is now down to an exact science, even factoring in RNG-- you plan for as many possible outcomes as you can, the resource management, and three, these seem to be the ONLY way to play these games now and if you aren't even just playing the games regularly, it's like, who cares, why would you play it quote "wrong" unquote
It feels like everyone focuses more on the challenge rather than the story, but I also can't fault them for that
Because it is still fun to watch and, presumably, even with long sessions of calcs and shit, fun to play, fun to see the execution
In my very own Nuzlocke, I themed the whole playthrough after characters from Fire Emblem Thracia 776, an infamously difficult and frustrating Fire Emblem game
And while I tried to min max and play as best as I could, I ended up making some boneheaded mistakes right before the end and that nearly cost me the run, only managing to win with exactly one Pokemon left alive (Excadrill)
But even with those mistakes, I named each Pokemon after a character from the game and I'd tie their actual character stories together with the story unfolding as I played
For example, my Elite Four team was Excadrill (Mareeta), Bisharp (Galzus), Stoutland (Eyvel), Electivire (Tanya), Darmanitan (Dagdar), and Lapras (Nanna)
VERY Fighting weak, and half of the team died to Marshal, meaning I had to take on the rest and Iris with only three Pokemon
What made this all the more tragic was that Stoutland, Lapras, and Darmanitan were all named after close relatives and family for the other three
Eyvel is Mareeta's foster mother, Tanya is Dagdar's daughter, Nanna is Mareeta's friend
Then against Iris, Bisharp and Darmanitan had to go down swinging for me to win-- Mareeta's long lost father Galzus, who only reunites with her at the end of the game, had to be separated from her once more, and Dagdar here not only lost his daughter, but his own life, all of this leaving Mareeta by her lonesome
To sum up, I basically tore families apart for the sake of victory, and when put in that context it sounds awful, but a mix of my own mistakes and needed what had to be done to win made my first Nuzlocke quite the experience
You don't really like...
you just don't see any of this in Nuzlockes now, because obviously, people are better at this than I am, they're more skilled, they wouldn't have victory come down to the wire like that, nor would they name Pokemon in such a manner (it's often just anagrams or city names or whatever), so there's nothing tying them all together like this
I don't know if I have a point with this, I just wanted to talk about my Nuzlocke experience, and I can't see Nuzlocke content changing at all ever, it's just gonna be done with harder and harder games and ROM hacks, and it'll be fun to watch the min maxing and gameplay, and that's about it
What I dislike is the rare candies since all the most exciting and scary moments in my personal nuzlockes were from grinding and random trainers
The thing is, when you have a certain degree of game knowledge, grinding doesn't pose any threat, so it has none of that tension. It's just time consuming.
I agree with idea that nuzlockes should stick with the attachment and story you are telling when playing them. A bad nature means nothing if that Pokémon become your surprise ace. I remember losing many times to challenge difficultly of White 2 so when I finally beat the game with two Pokémon I had since the beginning, I was ecstatic! It really was like a D&D adventure and that’s why I like playing them. I love drama and angst mixed with action and humor.
Well Mr. Crab, you’ve caught me. I like Jan’s stuff for the challenge but love your idea of a story driven nuzlocke. I would be very interested in watching you run through your favorite Pokémon game hardcore nuzlocke and see these stories develop!
As someone who is a math person, I think it is really cool too see all of the damage calculations, and the amount of planning. You are right it is a completely different genre with a completely different goal than what early nuzlocking was. Some of my favorite nuzlockes watch were the ones where people were trying to nuzlocke sword and shield while playing the game blind because it was more storytelling than damage calculation
I've always thought there's something bizarre about Kaizo Nuzlockes, in that they lose the appeal of both Kaizos and Nuzlockes. The whole thing becomes almost entirely pre-determined and it's just a dice roll if you get through it or not.
Exactly. like there's only one team that can actually beat emerald kaizo if you play with hardcore nuzlock rules. if the pokemon don't have good enough ivs or you get crit too much then it's a loss.
I mean for a lot of people the appeal of nuzlockes is just heightened difficulty, so combining two different types of heightened difficulty works
@@InsertFunnyThingHere It's part of it, but I'd argue that Kaizo nuzlockes lose nearly all the appeal of that too. You're not playing a challenging game like even a normal player who wants a challenge would, you're just following the worlds longest step. by. step. guide. where doing anything wrong instantly dooms you, where your actions are entirely dictated around manipulating AI, there's just nothing fun about that to me.
@@Leafsw0rd I can see it but it's not like every kaizo hack forces you to do the exact same thing step by step to not instantly die, very few actually come very close to that.
@@Leafsw0rdthen it not for you. You don't like it don't play it. No one is forcing you to play a kaizo game. It's like complaining about people playing 0% growth in Fire Emblem.
I think its sad that i cant enjoy old school nuzlocke content anymore. But i feel that its more like im growing up rather than the scene is changing.
Sure, HC Nuzlockes are much more common now, but i dont feel like watching someone blow through a main series game or the frustrating feeling when the youtuber makes obvious missplays.
Randomized nuzlockes are boring, regular nuzlockes are boring. HC Nuzlockes are way more strategic and interesting. Its sad that the sentiment each pokemon had is almost completely gone, but instead we get to see someone go throug 100+ runs to beat it and thats what makes it sentimental to me
I think one of the best PokeTuber of the Nuzlocke genre is Tyranitartube. Getting a team to make a Randomized Alpha sapphire, Sun, Sword games, and even nuzlocking hard fan games. His nuzlockes are like nothing else seen on the platform because nobody else really cares for the Nuzlocke or respects the Nuzlocke. Ttar goes out of his way sometimes to make the nuzlocke harder if he notices something might be to easy or broken. And when a pokemon Dies... he crafts a story montage for them.
But im not saying that Randomizing your game or playing a fan game fixes the problem. Like you said in your vid, Poketubers now dont care for the narrative of the story of the game anymore cuz they've either played the game to hell and back or just only care about the content of beating the game. TTar actually got into the story of each game and spread his run over multilple episode because he actually reads dialogue, and you can see from his fanbase that they also care fore the story and have favorite characters or pokemon that TTAR used.
Tyranitartube's nuzlockes are goated without a doubt.
I think the biggest reason for this shift is the fact that "Let's Plays" as a video genre are dead. With a long running nuzlocke series it was easier and encouraged to make it story-based/driven, especially as you as a viewer had time to bond with the mons as well. Nowadays every run is condensed into a 15-35 min video and thus the minmaxing stuff becomes priority.
I think in a video reacting to a run AlphaRad did - there was a really clutch, pop off moment happening - and Jan said something along the lines of "this is hype, this is good content, but this could all have been avoided if he played better" and really killed the magic of the moment.
That was my moment of realising the point of this video here.
Yeah, I really didn't like Jan's reaction content. Besides the usual "reaction content is lazy" thing, he was overly pretentious at times and ruined exciting moments at times
The reference to Scuttlebug from the A button challenges parallel universes from super mario 64 in 4:19 is absolute gold
This would ne highly compelling if Alpharad and Jaidenanimation's nuzlockes weren't infinitely more popular than all these Jan clones combined
My standout nuzlocke Pokemon was Star the Solrock in Emerald. I named all my encounters after hockey teams, hence the impeccable naming. I brought them along for Winona because I had no other Rock-types, and went into it planning to encore her Swablu and then go for a setup sweep with another Pokemon. I encored it, hit it with Toxic for chip damage...and Winona immediately switched out into Altaria as I went into my setup sweeper. Apparently the AI is smart enough to account for having Natural Cure! So I'm staring down the Dragon Dancing menace with a Pokemon that will get folded by a boosted Earthquake. Enter Star, who was immune to Earthquake, boosted perpendicular to Altaria with Cosmic Power to nullify Dragonbreath and proceeded to tank their way through Winona's entire gym. I was ride or die with Star from then on, and went all the way to the champion with me.
Ultimately, Star's journey ended at the finish line. They had learned Explosion just before the Elite Four, and I knew Juan wasn't going to be kind to my floating space rock. Star came in on a Gyarados Earthquake, finished it off with Rock Slide, then came in again on Whiscash's Earthquake. Rock Slide wouldn't do the trick this time, so Star went out in a blaze of glory to secure the win. Godspeed, Star.
I really liked how this video was done. I can understand the story part of a nuzlocke. And I think that you can experience some sort of story even in harder nuzlockes with calcs and such. In my Renegade Platinum nuzlocke, I was using rare candies, calcs, docs, Bulbapedia, etc. Yet I still had some attachment to some Pokémon. My Aggron was helpful in so many fights so I was sad that I didn’t bring him to the e4. I ended up losing that attempt anyway but we don’t talk about that. Anyhow, I’m glad you aren’t judging others for how they play which is something I find really infuriating when watching other vids like this one. Velersifuck specifically is just so out of his mind it’s crazy.
i got pretty into the nuzlocke community a few years ago. its honestly crazy how serious people take kids games
Nuzlockes evolved this way because the games are still easy af even with a million added rules, and people want to challenge themselves. There's still room for storytelling and Pchal himself is a good example of that. People who think he's an annoying person most likely only watched the Onix clip out of context and called it a day.
This is the reason I like MandJTV's playthroughs so much, because they're all about the narrative rather than just being an optimization run
honestly i don't like playing nuzlocks but i see why some people do but i just enjoy the causal experience of playing Pokémon i will watch nuzlocks though
a rule in my nuzlockes which always led to me caring about my team was that I couldn't switch out my party.
Only way I was getting new team members was if someone died, and I was not going to just kill one of my team members, that's jim, he's been with me since route 4, I can't just let him die!
My new hotness is grabbing a bunch of random shiny eggs and having my friends pick what I can hatch from each area, and making scarlet or violet a boss rush with the kitakami dlc because without any grinding everything lines up perfectly, it feels like classic pokemon, with all the randomness of encounters, and no crazy limitations (except on items) having a team of random literal babies I trained myself go all the way to the elite 4 and beyond is great
personally, I'm the opposite. I love the pure stats and prep side of it, working out rolls and min maxing teams for the E4. But, I can completely get how someone could prefer the story of it all, and I'm glad that we have both sides available for us all to enjoy and draw as many people as possible to nuzlocking as a whole.
A very important part of the Nuzlocke is that one Pokemon who you encountered instead of the one you REALLY wanted/needed. Sometimes, it's just as simple as your plans going wrong. Other times, though, that replacement Pokemon you underestimate ends up being incredibly important and carries the game when no one else could.
You had H*CK the Audino, I had Starcrust the Skarmory. I was so disappointed I got her instead of something or other, but I absolutely never would've survived Ultra Necrozma without her, even with my prior knowledge. Unfortunately, she died before making it to the endgame, never even getting into the hall of fame.
That surprise, that bond, that heartbreak, is why I play nuzlockes. As I get better at the game, it starts slipping away from me. I don't want to lose that. I want to keep loving my partners and crying when they die. I want to keep groaning angrily as I get a Surskit instead of a Bagon. I want to keep forgetting that X Pokemon has Y move that will absolutely decimate my second form starter. That's the fun of the challenge to me.
Thank you talking crab, I shall help feed the algo
Jan got me into nuzlocke content. I found his Emerald Kaizo video and have been down the rabbit hole since.