Fun Fact: the reason the Howell rifle has bipod on it is because Ian from ForgottenWeapons covered it on his channel, the rifle featured a bipod that was added on afterwards. It was a period correct bipod, but he did say that it wasn’t part of the rifle. It is also worth pointing out that Ian was also in contact with the weapon animators at DICE and he’s in the credits of the game.
@@darthvader9173 I wouldn't say that either of them are really better than each other, cuz even though Selbstlader 06 has 5 rounds more in the mag and a noticeably smaller recoil, Howell has a faster fire rate and a bipod which really helps on long range, so idk
As a modder for H3VR I have to thank Jonathan for finally revealing what Cei-Rigotti's extended trigger does. Being a VR firearm simulator it's really important to get the functions right and I've never thought about it being a bolt release, even though a number of self-loading rifles of this time also used trigger for that.
0:57 this is what makes this series so much better than most other "Expert React" style videos. Jonathan understands what concessions have to be made to realism in the name of gameplay, because he actually plays video games
Yep. Dude gets visibly happy seeing the attention to detail. Also, despite him likely putting less down a range than others, he has a flippin armoury to pick from. Especially when it comes to these ww1/ww2 era weapons he’s able to just pull v rare stuff out and has great knowledge of each.
7:02 - The AA sights are the modern FPS game's weapon customizations. Referring to what Jonathan said on the COD WW2 video, it's a way of slipping in some Modern Warfare into a WW1 game. It functionally is a modern optical sight without being a modern optical sight in a WW1 setting.
R Lee Ermey picked up and shot a Browning 1917 on camera in an episode of Mail Call. I imagine the DICE research team saw that episode and used it as justification to have a mobile 1917.
Its one of those things that _can_ be done by _some_ people, and I suppose the justification is that the player character is above adverage by default.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz considering you constantly run ~6 meters a second, our characters are definitively above average (we know the run speed via in-game distance tests and files)
A few notes/corrections to offer! * The Howell does seem to have been intended to be fired from a bipod. All known examples have cuts just behind the barrel band which are designed to support some kind of mount. The example that Ian from Forgotten Weapons examined in the US has a reproduction bipod fitted to these cuts; both examples in the Royal Armouries have the cuts but no bipod. I suppose the bipods were probably removed at some point. * The Winchester 1907 was actually used in WW1; a pretty sizeable batch was delivered to the French Air Force for issue to aviators (since SLRs were popular aircraft weapons before mounted MGs became common), and there are even a handful of photos of French infantrymen carrying these guns. However the French contract model only had a 10-round magazine, not a large extended magazine as shown in the game, and the supposition that the French converted these guns to full-auto is a myth based on a modern misunderstanding of the term "fusil automatique" (which back then meant "self-loading", not "fully-automatic"). * There are two Chauchat-Ribeyrolles "submachine guns" still in existence today; both at the Musée de l'Armée in Paris. The first prototype, i.e. the version shown in the game, is a conversion of the RSC Mle 1917 rifle, while the second more closely resembles the Chauchat and actually feeds from 20-round Chauchat mags (which I think was featured in CoD WW2 but I can't remember). The intention behind these guns was for issue to tankers as port firing weapons. It is interesting to note that while these guns are clearly not actually SMGs, they were referred to at the time as "Pistolet-Mitrailleurs" or "Machine Pistols", which is the French term for submachine gun. * The "SMG 08/18" was designed by Schwarzlose in 1918 and was intended to be a contemporary competitor to the Bergmann MP 18. However it had not been completed by the time the MP 18 was adopted and therefore it was never seriously considered for adoption. If I recall correctly, Schwarzlose attempted to flog this design to the Austro-Hungarians after it failed in Germany, and also demonstrated it to the Dutch Army, but nothing ever came of it.
Hi, thanks for the info! I'm really interested in the history of the "SMG 08/18" but haven't managed to find much on the web. Could you please let me know where you got your info from? Would love to learn more about it.
For the IMG08/18, the German army's attempts to make the MG 08 into a mobile platform led to the 08/15 modification, which was still ungodly heavy. This led to the German phrase "null acht funfzehn", which means "something unremarkable or not noteworthy." The literal translation of the phrase is "zero eight fifteen"
Yep, the WW1 German military did not make a light machine gun really. They just put a shoulder stock and a few other changes to the MG 08, it works but not very well.
C&Rsenal did an awsome evaluation of that and most LMGs of WW1 in Project Lightening with Ian from Forgotten weapons. It honestly did better than you’d think.
Well now I know that the seemingly random sequence of numbers, commonly used to describe something as ordinary or average in my Language, comes from the development of the MG 08/15 in WW1 by germany. Nice fun fact to know
The Martini Henry was used in Ww1, unofficially on the front lines a bit, but also in an official capacity by airmen to shoot down enemy balloons! The RSC SMG was also used in a limited capacity. It was made through a not very well standardized process which involved cutting down an RSC rifle, which was already uncommon. It was given to some tank crews to try. They generally disliked it but used what they had for the few months/weeks until the war ended.
Yessss, I was hoping they would do more of BF1. Modern shooters tend to all have the same guns and future settings all you can do is guess inspiration. This is where Jonathan's knowledge and the RA's collection can really shine.
Did BF5 include the Coender belt-fed SMG Gun Jesus covered? That would be a cool one for Johnathan to cover and maybe we could finally get a wiki page for it. Weird guy, weird gun, would like to know why the Maltese ended up with it.
Whenever we see our boy Jonathan see cursed stuff we should put the Godfather quote "look how they massacred my boy" especially with the stg44 showings. Btw that smile at the start will make us all wholesome. The goat!
The RSC SMG was in fact called a submachine gun in real life by the French, pistolet mitrailleur (PM). It's built, as its name suggest, on the RSC 1917 semi-auto rifle but converted to take a longer clip and fire in full auto as a tank port fire weapon. The second model could take an entire Chauchat magazine.
That is WILD. Even as a tank port fire weapon, I cannot imagine the recoil of essentially an Obrez RSC rifle firing an entire Chauchat magazine full of full size Lebel rounds to be anything short of horrifying.
@@jonathanferguson1211 Hey, just wanted to take the opportunity to say that I really like your t-shirt collection. One of the unspoken highlights of this series is seeing what unusual t-shirt you'll be wearing. Thanks for doing these videos, and that info on the Cei-Rigotti's bolt release was fascinating, so thanks again.
His pronounciation of Sjögren was actually pretty good. I'm Finnish, and Finland's swedes (one of Finland's largest minorities) pronounce it in a totally different way, but swedes in Sweden pronounce it just like Jonathan did, so to my ear it was pretty accurate.
No it wasn't. I'm Swedish and I didn't even understand what he was saying until he spelt it out lol. Not attacking him, it's difficult pronouncing other languages, but that was not a good pronunciation.
@@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa from the standpoint of him not being swedish. You are literally just being mean. Most people would attempt to pronounce the s and j instead of just doing the closed aspiration, like you're supposed to. He tried to aspirate and the knowledge that you're supposed to do that is honestly impressive from any English speaker, since in their language you would never even think about doing that with "sj" followed by a vowel
@@myfaceismyshield5963 As I said, I'm not attacking him. Foreign languages are hard. But to say his pronunciation was accurate is just... not true. The very thing you're praising him for, his aspiration with the SJ, was what he butchered. He got the umlaut spot on. But "Sj" is not pronounced like "H" like he did. He said "Högren" not "Sjögren". Sj is not pronounced H, no Swede would ever recognize that as such. If he had pronounced the S and the J it would had been better and I probably would have understood he was trying to say "Sjögren"
@@liammeech3702 I have no clue on that. I'm not a gun enthusiast. I just know how Swedes pronounce words and names... Sjögren is just a fairly regular last name in Sweden. According to a statistic at alltomnamn, there's nearly 10,000 people with that last name, in Sweden alone (in Finland there are only around 500 Sjögrens, but they pronounce it differently)
I've been waiting forever for this! Glad to see Bf1 getting so much love lately. Been my go to since it came out and the player counts have been great recently. Its a rare game that just gets it all right despite the time period being so unfamiliar for most fps games.
I got this game for €5 about a year or two ago and I've been playing it every time servers are available. I love its vehicles, weapons, styles, everything really!
Im so happy this game is having a revival. As someone who has played day in and out for ages now, it was sad to slowly see the playerbase keep hemorrhaging users. It got to the point where you could only find a match on conquest with only enough players to fill like 2 custom server browser lobbies. See you boys in the trenches!
I love how even the firearms expert who's job is to literally nit-pick games has to admit the addition of the Martini-Henry is cool. Whoever did the sound design for that thing deserves a medal!
The Howell Automatic’s bipod in this game is probably a byproduct of DICE using Forgotten Weapons as their source. The example Ian did a video on has a bipod just like the one shown that was added by an owner at some point
The cool thing about the m1903 experimental is that if you equip k bullets and equip them your player will swap out the whole Pederson device and install a bolt with the k bullet. It's one of the most unique reloads in the game if not ever.
@@CanadianvoiceI don't believe changing between the pistol and regular bolt action modes was possible on release, so that might be why you don't remember it.
Probably never saw the Hellfighter and Red Baron pistols because you needed the Deluxe Edition or Ultimate/Revolution Edition to use them. I assume he just bought each DLC individually
One point on the Winchester 1907 SL, as far as I’m aware, the French actually did make (at least brief) use of an infantry version of the rifle, they’re rather rare but they are modified with a bayonet lug on the front, and used 15 (I think?) round magazines
(I'm late, I know.) Although this has been *said*, I don't think there's any actual confirmed info/proof of there being Winchester 1907s being used by the French during the war.
@@MyPS4IsOnFirePleaseHelp I have found a number of sources online that suggest the information comes from the Winchester company's own sales records, which record "300 Model 1907 rifles in October 1915 from Winchester, soon followed by an order for 2,500 more rifles. Ammunition orders for these rifles exceeded 1.5 million cartridges of .351SL before 1917. Subsequent orders in 1917 and 1918 totaled 2,200 Model 1907 rifles." - So a few thousand rifles _at least_ are on official record as being sold to France during the war. C&Rsenal did a video on the French Contract M1907 rifles here - th-cam.com/video/XDgPDsja5jA/w-d-xo.html I've not seen the company records myself, but I _have_ seen dated and confirmed photos of French troops training with the rifle. It appears to have been primarily for aircraft usage, but it could easily have been pressed into service for foot usage. They appear to have wanted a LOT of magazines and ammunition for the number of rifles they ended up ordering, so they clearly intended to use them near-constantly. It does appear however that the rumors of automatic variants in French service are entirely unsubstantiated, and likely due to a mistranslation of the French term for "semiautomatic rifle" into "automatic rifle."
One of my buddies has a martini Henry, it’s such a cool gun. Real heavy too, you don’t realize how large it is until you hold it. The cartridge it fires is insane too.
As a Swedish person, Your Sjögren pronunciation is not bad at all! Love these videos, lots of fun information and interesting details. Will have to stop by the Royal Armouries and gawk at the firearms if i do end up in the UK at some point :)
A major point I'd have for whoever is doing the footage for Mr Ferguson here is that they're using the nonhistorical (albeit understandably) variations present in the game. Most of these have skins on them (see: the comment on the satchel on the M1907 SL, the comment on the gold-plated Model 1875) or modifications fitted (footage for the Benét-Mercié). Accurate assessment of their realism would be from standard models in-game (infantry variants with standard iron sights) and in their stock skin rather than anything else. Just my two cents for this series not only for Battlefield 1 but for others.
As far as I know, this is the only video on the internet with an MG08/18 air cooled gun they are extremely rare, vs the much more common water cooled MG08/15
The Winchester 1907 was indeed sent out to various armies fighting in WWI in small quantities with the French having the bulk of it at about 2,500 rifles. What the main purpose of said carbines was to be used by bomber crews early on in the war to just draw the carbine out when they spot an enemy plane and just shoot it at them. However, the co-pilots soon realized that the gun was practically useless as it does not throw enough lead to damage the enemy plane 60% of the time and with the caliber being relatively small with the .351, it's hard to take down planes and even lesser chance to aim at the pilot when you're flying at 140mph in the air and thus they abandoned it quick. There are indeed some reports of it being used in air in the French Air Force during WWI and some by the RAF but as far as I know, they wern't used anymore by 1917 when machine gun became the mainstay weapon on planes be it as offensive or defensive armament. The Martini-Henry did indeed saw action in some WWI theater, especially the Middle East. The British, needing to arm the main army in Europe with the newer tech, shoved the Martini-Henrys that they had in stock down to the Middle Eastern contingent that they had and even supplied tons of it to the Arabs during their revolt against the Ottomans and that's not all as same issue with the British, the Ottomans needed to arm their main army with the Mausers whereas outlier outpost could make do with older weapons thus they stockpiled tons of Martini-Henry and Peabodys at such areas and when the Arab Revolt kicked off, the rebels took armories stockpiled full of said rifles and used it against their overlords with British supplying them even more ammo for it on top of whatever spare Martini-Henry rifles they could spare for their cause.
The last good Battlefield game to date. Battlefield V was a disappointment coming off the masterpiece that was BF1 and 2042 made Battlefield V look like a masterpiece in comparison to that dumpster fire. They both make BF1 just shine so much more and I really hope one day they can recapture the beauty and atmosphere that was BF1. They definitely got me playing it again too.
@@DrownInLysergic battlefield 5 is just as good as any of them it was just recieved bad by a certain group of wusses. People need to understand that battlefield 5 is almost exactly like any other battlefield game
@@hunterthomazin2415Yeah, i saw people complaining about there being female soldiers, when even in real life there was woman in the fronts on both WW1 and WW2, of course, mostly on the Russian armies, but they were
I think the swapping of the bolt was an after the fact addition in one of the later DLCs. I remember for the longest time there was no actual bolt action 1903 in multiplayer.
@@nb9121 the last dlc added the option to swap from the pedersen device to the infantry version, but the animations always were there when using K-bullets
It is a interesting weapon to see irl. I’ve only seen one complete rifle at the nra museum. I’ve seen Springfields mark 1 rifles pop up for sale and only one pederson device for sale.
I think it'd be interesting to have someone look at Valkyria Chronicles guns since those have a whole glossary pages dedicated to them. Would be nice to see a military guy react to some of the situations too even if they are just fantasy WW2.
Love watching these. Johnathan is such a person we all look up to. He's like any of us gamer but he's super smart and knowledgable about the topic and not a total "gun nut" but an actual historian
Please Jonathan, made a video on *METAL GEAR SOLID 3* weapons. (Please like the comment so gamespot can finally see it) So many weapons in MGS3 to react and comment on like the Patriot's infinite ammo magazine, the EZ tranq gun, Snake's customized officer M1911A1, Snake whittling the pistol grip to use a knife for CQC, Ocelot's SAA juggling skills, The End's paratrooper tranquilizer Mosin Nagant, the Davey Crockett recoil-less nuclear launcher and Eva's chinese mauser clone. There are so many more other interesting trivias and weapons in MGS3 so please gamespot and Johnathan make a video that isnt just more call of duty or tarkov (as much as I love those series) it just feels stale now revisiting the same games for multiple videos.
Also, Martini Henry’s were used as early balloon busters during WWI. And, I don’t wanna disagree with Jonathan here, but on the Browning M1917, US Marines in WWII were trained to fire the things from the hip. I actually have a picture of four Marines training on hip firing both Browning 1917s and 1919s.
This is why I love Battlefield 1’s weapon cosmetics; the absolute worst in terms of realism is just black wood and gold with ornate, classic engravings that feel appropriate to the time period, so you can semi-realistically imagine some flamboyant officer from a noble family using a gun like that. All of the weapon cosmetics are a mix of classic Victorian era beauty and camouflage patterns (as well as damage and blood on the apocalypse weapon skins). They also often have realistic additions like cloth or rags on LMG barrels to protect someone holding the gun from getting burned. It may not be 100% realistic, but it feels respectful to the time period, and it shows how dedicated the devs were to not taking the player out of the experience, unlike other historical shooters nowadays which often have over-the-top, multicoloured animated skins.
I don't even care about guns but I find watching Jonathan talking about what could be anything at all, really interesting. When's he going to do pottery, posters or pogo sticks? I'd watch it. Thanks J
The howell had a bipod because of the footage Ian of ForgottenWeapons did on it. The example he got his hands on did have a bipod, although he mentioned it was added in a second time, DICE added it anyway to fit the semi auto support type weapon niche. Some of the anachronistic guns are “justified”(still doesn’t make sense to see germans usingt Thompson annihilators in verdun) because with DLC2: In the name of the Tsar the game extended to the Russian civil war as well
Surprised he didn't say anything about the Hotchkiss not being able to be tactical reloaded like they do in the game. You can't just push the full clip though it because there's only room for the empty clip to come out after the rounds have been fed.
8:23 The French actually ordered a grand total of five thousand Winchester 1907 rifles (not sure how many of these were actually received) throughout the war, with orders for the .351SL cartridge exceeding 1.5 million rounds by 1917. The 8x35mm intermediate round for the Ribeyrolles 1918 automatic carbine was allegedly produced by necking down the .351SL round.
John Basilone got the Medal of Honor on Guadalcanal by carrying and hand firing an M1917. Granted he burned his hands and scared them doing so but he did it
I'm sure someone, or many people, have already pointed out the arched mainspring housing on the 1911 is the A1 type, not the original 1911 flat version.
Been waiting for this one. Please give us part 3 if possible! COD games get so many episodes but the devs on this one must have done so much more research on wacky real life prototypes and period guns than maybe any game ever.
Had the Howell been mote widely used during ww1. I can see the gun attached with a bipod because if Forgotten weapons puts a bipod on it for reasons. I can see Brits doing the same in the trenches.
I will say, the specific M1909 Benet-Mercie they're showing there is the Telescopic version, which is specifically designed from a gameplay perspective as well not to be shoulder-fired -- it has that telescopic sight for a reason. You usually see people perched a million feet up on something with that thing, firing laser bolts down at the ants beneath them, rather than Ramboing it around -- and the Telescopic is by far the most popular B-M in my experience of getting shot by it. Very good gun for creating the Authentic World War 1 Experience of getting razed to the ground by distant MG fire.
Man, nothing tickles me more than learning about older guns. Lol I love seeing what the classic gunsmiths and inventors came up with when trying to advance their firearms! It feels like you really don't see this kind of innovation these days.
13:10 The Martini rifle was used in WWI, I believe in Africa and Arabia due to a shortage of rifles. It would have probably been more likely to come across a Martini Enfield given it shared the widely used .303 chambering.
The m1903 experimental actually used to be a completely separate gun from the regular m1903 with no ability to switch between the two. It was also the worst gun in the game by far.
Yeah, press the button to switch fire modes. It's generally inferior to the other bolt actions because of the fact that you can't rezero the sights and that the sweet spot is around 150 m while the sights are locked at 75 m. I greatly prefer either the Arisaka, Ross, or Winchester Trench for close range combat because of this.
The M1907 in game is actually the French-modified M1907/17 with a long 20-round mag and FULL AUTO fire capability. However, the cyclic rate of fire of that in BF1 was way too slow and was thus updated to a more proper rate in BFV
It was NOT full auto or fitted with extended magazines. Someone saw “automatic” in the documentation and assumed that meant full-auto rather than self-loading. They were just regular 1907s.
@@Horgler When there is this one man named William Morgan using a full auto converted version of it with a 35-round drum mag of all things in Cuba, it's not impossible that it wasn't full auto. Plus no one has agreed to your claim so that's that too.
@@invictusangelica No one agreed to my claim? Buddy, you're the one pushing this based on a single anecdote which is likely from the interwar years. Have an excerpt from IMFDB. "There is a completely unconfirmed opinion that supposedly weapons in French service used a larger 15 or 20 round box and some were converted to select-fire. In the end, it turned out that all rifles delivered to France were standard M1907, completed with magazines for 10 rounds. They were used to arm aviators, and there is no evidence of their use in ground forces. The only one weapon passed off as a "French trench version" ended up from Cody Firearms Museum (USA), S/N 47357, manufactured in 1935, with extra long magazine, sling swivels, and bayonet lug (for US M1892 Krag bayonet), was offered for sale only to law enforcement and penitentiaries. These rifles were first proposed by Winchester in 1934. The myth of "fully automatic conversion" comes from the mention of ordered rifles in one of the documents with the word "auto", although in those years this was a typical term for semi-automatic weapons."
@@Horgler Ah yes of course, IMFDB. Just like Wikipedia, IMFDB is open source so people may get it wrong. I found a quote of that on a forum page called The High Road with a post in 2007-2008: "A French solution to the problem was the puchase of 2,500 Winchester Model 1907 semiautomatic rifles. Before accepting their delivery, the French had Winchester to convert them to full-auto." Captain Monty Mendenhall, "The MP18,I: Imperial Germany's First Subgun", SMALL ARMS REVIEW, p. 24, January 2004. and The book on "The Forgotten Winchesters" makes no mention to any being converted to full auto, although I agree it is possible and As far as I know there was only one full auto chambered for the .351 ctg. and it was made by Thompson Arms as a more powerful alternative to the .45acp ctg. The War Dept. rejected it due to complications of ammo supply. Anyways, I am on the IMFDB's Discord server and discussing with fellow gun enthusiasts and editors online. I will keep this updated as much as possible.
Marini Henry's that had been rechambered into .303 did see limited service in the British forces during the initial arms shortage after the heavy losses of the expeditionary force at the outbreak of the war. They were reserved for rear echelon troops as they didn't exactly want someone going over the top with a single loading rifle, but they did see active, non frontline (One would hope) service during the war.
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they REALLY updated the Wikipedia page for Cei-Rigotti in not even an hour
for you whoever did that, my most respect for you
with a link to this video as a source.
@@blackm4niac As it should be.
@@blackm4niac I checked for curiosity :D but the link is broken
Link fixed. Show yourself, wikipeditor 😄
Mission accomplished good work!
Fun Fact: the reason the Howell rifle has bipod on it is because Ian from ForgottenWeapons covered it on his channel, the rifle featured a bipod that was added on afterwards. It was a period correct bipod, but he did say that it wasn’t part of the rifle.
It is also worth pointing out that Ian was also in contact with the weapon animators at DICE and he’s in the credits of the game.
It's also related to how it fits into the game
So technically that small mistake was caused by gun Jesus himself and now he's technically part of it
Best Medic gun
@@ElMarcoHoJ nah selbstlader 1906
@@darthvader9173 I wouldn't say that either of them are really better than each other, cuz even though Selbstlader 06 has 5 rounds more in the mag and a noticeably smaller recoil, Howell has a faster fire rate and a bipod which really helps on long range, so idk
As a modder for H3VR I have to thank Jonathan for finally revealing what Cei-Rigotti's extended trigger does. Being a VR firearm simulator it's really important to get the functions right and I've never thought about it being a bolt release, even though a number of self-loading rifles of this time also used trigger for that.
Oh hey, Greythorn! Big fan of your BF1/BFV gun ports to H3VR. I assume you'll add this functionality to your own Cei-Rigotti right?
Nice seeing you here kapitan
Cei-Rigotti was my favourite weapon in BF1, I even made a second account for BF1 and played nothing but medic and used this gun!
@@arbiter1er When I get the time, yes. Good to hear that you're enjoying them!
0:57 this is what makes this series so much better than most other "Expert React" style videos. Jonathan understands what concessions have to be made to realism in the name of gameplay, because he actually plays video games
Yep. Dude gets visibly happy seeing the attention to detail. Also, despite him likely putting less down a range than others, he has a flippin armoury to pick from. Especially when it comes to these ww1/ww2 era weapons he’s able to just pull v rare stuff out and has great knowledge of each.
Also like, most of those videos the supposed experts aren't even given any info about anything just given visuals. It's super annoying and un-genuine.
That’s what I love about him, he’s baicly a proper Nerd
7:02 - The AA sights are the modern FPS game's weapon customizations. Referring to what Jonathan said on the COD WW2 video, it's a way of slipping in some Modern Warfare into a WW1 game. It functionally is a modern optical sight without being a modern optical sight in a WW1 setting.
In bf1 they added the lens sight for a bunch of weapons that never used that too. In ww2 games, they put the nydar sight and the mk3 sight too.
@@pedroocs13 yup, he briefly went over the MP18 optical on part 1, so the AA sights here serve the same game design purpose
R Lee Ermey picked up and shot a Browning 1917 on camera in an episode of Mail Call. I imagine the DICE research team saw that episode and used it as justification to have a mobile 1917.
Also the story of John Basilone.
Hey yknow what
Fair enough lol
Its one of those things that _can_ be done by _some_ people, and I suppose the justification is that the player character is above adverage by default.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz considering you constantly run ~6 meters a second, our characters are definitively above average (we know the run speed via in-game distance tests and files)
There was a guy who got the medal of honor hipfiring one if I remeber correctly, I think Ian McCollum has a video about it out there somewhere
A few notes/corrections to offer!
* The Howell does seem to have been intended to be fired from a bipod. All known examples have cuts just behind the barrel band which are designed to support some kind of mount. The example that Ian from Forgotten Weapons examined in the US has a reproduction bipod fitted to these cuts; both examples in the Royal Armouries have the cuts but no bipod. I suppose the bipods were probably removed at some point.
* The Winchester 1907 was actually used in WW1; a pretty sizeable batch was delivered to the French Air Force for issue to aviators (since SLRs were popular aircraft weapons before mounted MGs became common), and there are even a handful of photos of French infantrymen carrying these guns. However the French contract model only had a 10-round magazine, not a large extended magazine as shown in the game, and the supposition that the French converted these guns to full-auto is a myth based on a modern misunderstanding of the term "fusil automatique" (which back then meant "self-loading", not "fully-automatic").
* There are two Chauchat-Ribeyrolles "submachine guns" still in existence today; both at the Musée de l'Armée in Paris. The first prototype, i.e. the version shown in the game, is a conversion of the RSC Mle 1917 rifle, while the second more closely resembles the Chauchat and actually feeds from 20-round Chauchat mags (which I think was featured in CoD WW2 but I can't remember). The intention behind these guns was for issue to tankers as port firing weapons. It is interesting to note that while these guns are clearly not actually SMGs, they were referred to at the time as "Pistolet-Mitrailleurs" or "Machine Pistols", which is the French term for submachine gun.
* The "SMG 08/18" was designed by Schwarzlose in 1918 and was intended to be a contemporary competitor to the Bergmann MP 18. However it had not been completed by the time the MP 18 was adopted and therefore it was never seriously considered for adoption. If I recall correctly, Schwarzlose attempted to flog this design to the Austro-Hungarians after it failed in Germany, and also demonstrated it to the Dutch Army, but nothing ever came of it.
Hi, thanks for the info! I'm really interested in the history of the "SMG 08/18" but haven't managed to find much on the web. Could you please let me know where you got your info from? Would love to learn more about it.
🤓🤓🤓
Very interesting and infotmative!
CodWW2 just called it the Ribeyrolles, its great in the Zombies mode as bullets turned explosive upon being upgraded
For the IMG08/18, the German army's attempts to make the MG 08 into a mobile platform led to the 08/15 modification, which was still ungodly heavy. This led to the German phrase "null acht funfzehn", which means "something unremarkable or not noteworthy." The literal translation of the phrase is "zero eight fifteen"
Yep, the WW1 German military did not make a light machine gun really. They just put a shoulder stock and a few other changes to the MG 08, it works but not very well.
Yes! This is in my firearms folklore list. Hopefully to become a book one day :)
C&Rsenal did an awsome evaluation of that and most LMGs of WW1 in Project Lightening with Ian from Forgotten weapons. It honestly did better than you’d think.
Indeed that is how 08/15 is said in German.
Well now I know that the seemingly random sequence of numbers, commonly used to describe something as ordinary or average in my Language, comes from the development of the MG 08/15 in WW1 by germany. Nice fun fact to know
The Howell's bipod is *probably* based on the one Ian of Forgotten Weapons showed off, which someone had added a bipod to
3:30
Tired of having to cycle your rifle by hand? *Well now, There’s a solution!*
Howell Automatic Rifle
Trouble at home? It works on the Irish!
When John Wicks gonna buy his next guns, I want Jonathan to be the salesman
or the AK-50 guy
Or Gun Jesus
@@Tr4wnet Or just have multiple people working at an underground armory....then also add in Ian McCollum.
Now that would be a solid cameo.
He is just going to sell him a bunch of EM2's
Making a ww1 game was genius. So many weird and fun guns.
Dude you know you're gonna have to keep making videos on BF1 weapons until you've covered them all, right? It is NEEDED! Great vids
Yes! Part 3 pls! So much research must have gone into guns for this game! Check out C&Rsenal for the real gun’s history and shooting.
Gamespot I hope you treat Jonathan like royalty. He's as amazing as ever. Would love to see if there's any games he'd specifically like to review.
Yeah bro, He's literally the "Royal arms or smth idk"
These videos never get old. I get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time i see a new video in my feed. Thank you Jonathan!
The Martini Henry was used in Ww1, unofficially on the front lines a bit, but also in an official capacity by airmen to shoot down enemy balloons!
The RSC SMG was also used in a limited capacity. It was made through a not very well standardized process which involved cutting down an RSC rifle, which was already uncommon. It was given to some tank crews to try. They generally disliked it but used what they had for the few months/weeks until the war ended.
Is there proof that the RSC SMG was used? And was just a cut down RSC 1917? I *sincerely* doubt that.
Find it on the Internet my guy@@MyPS4IsOnFirePleaseHelp
Plus a lot of African troops used them, thanks to leftovers from Britain's colonial days.
Yessss, I was hoping they would do more of BF1. Modern shooters tend to all have the same guns and future settings all you can do is guess inspiration. This is where Jonathan's knowledge and the RA's collection can really shine.
Yes! Part 3 pls! So much research must have gone into guns for this game! Check out C&Rsenal for the real gun’s history and shooting
Did BF5 include the Coender belt-fed SMG Gun Jesus covered? That would be a cool one for Johnathan to cover and maybe we could finally get a wiki page for it. Weird guy, weird gun, would like to know why the Maltese ended up with it.
At this point, this channel can be Jonathan game guns review channel haha
Keep up the great work!
The Cei Rigotti wikipedia article is already updated btw if you were wondering. Took less than an hour.
Whenever we see our boy Jonathan see cursed stuff we should put the Godfather quote "look how they massacred my boy" especially with the stg44 showings. Btw that smile at the start will make us all wholesome. The goat!
The RSC SMG was in fact called a submachine gun in real life by the French, pistolet mitrailleur (PM). It's built, as its name suggest, on the RSC 1917 semi-auto rifle but converted to take a longer clip and fire in full auto as a tank port fire weapon. The second model could take an entire Chauchat magazine.
That is WILD. Even as a tank port fire weapon, I cannot imagine the recoil of essentially an Obrez RSC rifle firing an entire Chauchat magazine full of full size Lebel rounds to be anything short of horrifying.
@@sleeplessindefatigable6385 Which is exactly why they didn't adopt it :P
Ah, good catch, thank you.
@@jonathanferguson1211 Hey, just wanted to take the opportunity to say that I really like your t-shirt collection. One of the unspoken highlights of this series is seeing what unusual t-shirt you'll be wearing. Thanks for doing these videos, and that info on the Cei-Rigotti's bolt release was fascinating, so thanks again.
But could it take my BWC 😏🤨
You got me playing battlefield 1 again. Using some of the wackier guns and absolutely loving it.
It's really cool seeing my main guns get analyzed.
His pronounciation of Sjögren was actually pretty good.
I'm Finnish, and Finland's swedes (one of Finland's largest minorities) pronounce it in a totally different way, but swedes in Sweden pronounce it just like Jonathan did, so to my ear it was pretty accurate.
No it wasn't. I'm Swedish and I didn't even understand what he was saying until he spelt it out lol. Not attacking him, it's difficult pronouncing other languages, but that was not a good pronunciation.
@@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa from the standpoint of him not being swedish. You are literally just being mean. Most people would attempt to pronounce the s and j instead of just doing the closed aspiration, like you're supposed to. He tried to aspirate and the knowledge that you're supposed to do that is honestly impressive from any English speaker, since in their language you would never even think about doing that with "sj" followed by a vowel
@@myfaceismyshield5963 As I said, I'm not attacking him. Foreign languages are hard. But to say his pronunciation was accurate is just... not true. The very thing you're praising him for, his aspiration with the SJ, was what he butchered. He got the umlaut spot on. But "Sj" is not pronounced like "H" like he did. He said "Högren" not "Sjögren". Sj is not pronounced H, no Swede would ever recognize that as such.
If he had pronounced the S and the J it would had been better and I probably would have understood he was trying to say "Sjögren"
Was this gun popular in the sports/hunting communities in both countries then?
@@liammeech3702 I have no clue on that. I'm not a gun enthusiast.
I just know how Swedes pronounce words and names... Sjögren is just a fairly regular last name in Sweden. According to a statistic at alltomnamn, there's nearly 10,000 people with that last name, in Sweden alone
(in Finland there are only around 500 Sjögrens, but they pronounce it differently)
I've been waiting forever for this! Glad to see Bf1 getting so much love lately. Been my go to since it came out and the player counts have been great recently. Its a rare game that just gets it all right despite the time period being so unfamiliar for most fps games.
I got this game for €5 about a year or two ago and I've been playing it every time servers are available. I love its vehicles, weapons, styles, everything really!
My favourite shooter of the past gen. Absolutely love it. Multiplayer masterpiece.
Makes you wonder how they went from hitting it off to complete melted plastic just a few years and one game later
Im so happy this game is having a revival. As someone who has played day in and out for ages now, it was sad to slowly see the playerbase keep hemorrhaging users. It got to the point where you could only find a match on conquest with only enough players to fill like 2 custom server browser lobbies. See you boys in the trenches!
Once more boys, OVER THE TOP!
I love how even the firearms expert who's job is to literally nit-pick games has to admit the addition of the Martini-Henry is cool.
Whoever did the sound design for that thing deserves a medal!
I was incredibly hyped when I saw the RSC SMG appear. I love that hunk of junk.
The Howell Automatic’s bipod in this game is probably a byproduct of DICE using Forgotten Weapons as their source. The example Ian did a video on has a bipod just like the one shown that was added by an owner at some point
The cool thing about the m1903 experimental is that if you equip k bullets and equip them your player will swap out the whole Pederson device and install a bolt with the k bullet. It's one of the most unique reloads in the game if not ever.
You don’t need to use k bullets, simply press the changing firing mode key and the m1903 will become a infantry bolt action, like in the video.
@@thomasshermane8644 Usually the "V" key.
Luckily you can just skip the whole animation and switch weapon twice to make it happen immediately
@@thomasshermane8644 I wasn't aware of that. I thought the firing mode only worked for semi auto auto like in most rifles cool
@@CanadianvoiceI don't believe changing between the pistol and regular bolt action modes was possible on release, so that might be why you don't remember it.
I didn't think the IMG 08/18 Low Weight Machine Gun can be that enormous
It's ww1 after all. Didn't have much of those small precise parts.
@@tntkit nah, it was just that germany didn't have time to develop a proper LMG and just turned their MG 08 into one.
Other countries had smaller LMGs
Well the Maxim is a huge gun, a lightweight version will retain most of the bulk since the lightening is on the barrel jacket
@@ArcturusOTE Maxim was WW1 iirc
It's "Low Weight" relative to the "normal" one.
If you do a part 3, show him the Peacekeeper, the Phantom Program reward. I think he would be really pleased.
Love this Series so much, Jonathan has such a love for the turn-of-the-century arms of the time and it is so excellent to watch along and learn.
Probably never saw the Hellfighter and Red Baron pistols because you needed the Deluxe Edition or Ultimate/Revolution Edition to use them. I assume he just bought each DLC individually
This was one of the best episodes in a while I really enjoyed this one.
I learned a lot.
Would be cool to see Johnathan take a look at the guns in The Order 1886
I would love for him to talk about the General Liu rifle he hasn't already
I love the thumbnails in this series where Jonathan has a huge grin while showing off a weapon
One point on the Winchester 1907 SL, as far as I’m aware, the French actually did make (at least brief) use of an infantry version of the rifle, they’re rather rare but they are modified with a bayonet lug on the front, and used 15 (I think?) round magazines
(I'm late, I know.)
Although this has been *said*, I don't think there's any actual confirmed info/proof of there being Winchester 1907s being used by the French during the war.
@@MyPS4IsOnFirePleaseHelp I have found a number of sources online that suggest the information comes from the Winchester company's own sales records, which record "300 Model 1907 rifles in October 1915 from Winchester, soon followed by an order for 2,500 more rifles. Ammunition orders for these rifles exceeded 1.5 million cartridges of .351SL before 1917. Subsequent orders in 1917 and 1918 totaled 2,200 Model 1907 rifles." - So a few thousand rifles _at least_ are on official record as being sold to France during the war.
C&Rsenal did a video on the French Contract M1907 rifles here - th-cam.com/video/XDgPDsja5jA/w-d-xo.html
I've not seen the company records myself, but I _have_ seen dated and confirmed photos of French troops training with the rifle. It appears to have been primarily for aircraft usage, but it could easily have been pressed into service for foot usage. They appear to have wanted a LOT of magazines and ammunition for the number of rifles they ended up ordering, so they clearly intended to use them near-constantly.
It does appear however that the rumors of automatic variants in French service are entirely unsubstantiated, and likely due to a mistranslation of the French term for "semiautomatic rifle" into "automatic rifle."
Always nice to see Jonathan's smile on a new vid, the man's enthusiasm is infectious.
One of my buddies has a martini Henry, it’s such a cool gun. Real heavy too, you don’t realize how large it is until you hold it. The cartridge it fires is insane too.
As a Swedish person, Your Sjögren pronunciation is not bad at all! Love these videos, lots of fun information and interesting details. Will have to stop by the Royal Armouries and gawk at the firearms if i do end up in the UK at some point :)
He’s not Swedish.
@@tsarbomba01 YOU DON'T SAY
A major point I'd have for whoever is doing the footage for Mr Ferguson here is that they're using the nonhistorical (albeit understandably) variations present in the game. Most of these have skins on them (see: the comment on the satchel on the M1907 SL, the comment on the gold-plated Model 1875) or modifications fitted (footage for the Benét-Mercié). Accurate assessment of their realism would be from standard models in-game (infantry variants with standard iron sights) and in their stock skin rather than anything else.
Just my two cents for this series not only for Battlefield 1 but for others.
Love the cycle of violence shirt John's wearing, wish I could've gotten one in their last indegogo campaign
Check the C&Rsenal store after they ship in December. Sometimes they get extras.
21:34 *Gasp* I haven't seen one of them in years! My great grandpa used to work as a army technician and I remember him working with one of those.
As far as I know, this is the only video on the internet with an MG08/18 air cooled gun they are extremely rare, vs the much more common water cooled MG08/15
08/15 is the German way of saying basic vanilla. (took me until I played bf 1 to figure out where the saying came from originaly)
The whole atmosphere of bf1 is beyond amazing
Fun fact: There's actually a Swedish m/96 mauser auto conversion prototype that uses the Sjögren system
The Winchester 1907 was indeed sent out to various armies fighting in WWI in small quantities with the French having the bulk of it at about 2,500 rifles.
What the main purpose of said carbines was to be used by bomber crews early on in the war to just draw the carbine out when they spot an enemy plane and just shoot it at them. However, the co-pilots soon realized that the gun was practically useless as it does not throw enough lead to damage the enemy plane 60% of the time and with the caliber being relatively small with the .351, it's hard to take down planes and even lesser chance to aim at the pilot when you're flying at 140mph in the air and thus they abandoned it quick.
There are indeed some reports of it being used in air in the French Air Force during WWI and some by the RAF but as far as I know, they wern't used anymore by 1917 when machine gun became the mainstay weapon on planes be it as offensive or defensive armament.
The Martini-Henry did indeed saw action in some WWI theater, especially the Middle East. The British, needing to arm the main army in Europe with the newer tech, shoved the Martini-Henrys that they had in stock down to the Middle Eastern contingent that they had and even supplied tons of it to the Arabs during their revolt against the Ottomans and that's not all as same issue with the British, the Ottomans needed to arm their main army with the Mausers whereas outlier outpost could make do with older weapons thus they stockpiled tons of Martini-Henry and Peabodys at such areas and when the Arab Revolt kicked off, the rebels took armories stockpiled full of said rifles and used it against their overlords with British supplying them even more ammo for it on top of whatever spare Martini-Henry rifles they could spare for their cause.
Bf1 is beyond amazing, the entire atmosphere is awesome
The last good Battlefield game to date. Battlefield V was a disappointment coming off the masterpiece that was BF1 and 2042 made Battlefield V look like a masterpiece in comparison to that dumpster fire. They both make BF1 just shine so much more and I really hope one day they can recapture the beauty and atmosphere that was BF1. They definitely got me playing it again too.
@@DrownInLysergic battlefield 5 is just as good as any of them it was just recieved bad by a certain group of wusses. People need to understand that battlefield 5 is almost exactly like any other battlefield game
@@hunterthomazin2415Yeah, i saw people complaining about there being female soldiers, when even in real life there was woman in the fronts on both WW1 and WW2, of course, mostly on the Russian armies, but they were
Another nit to pick on the 1911 is the original had 2 diamond shapes each side of the grips. The game shows it as fully checkered, which was M1911A1.
Jonathan's extensive knowledge of guns makes him an horary American
Awesome that this game is still being talked about. Truly a brilliant game
I never knew the M1903 Experimental could change fire modes. I thought it was just a meme weapon like the Kolibri
I think the swapping of the bolt was an after the fact addition in one of the later DLCs. I remember for the longest time there was no actual bolt action 1903 in multiplayer.
@@nb9121 wait, you can make the 1903 experimental just a regular 1903 now?
@@Zakhev342 Yeah, they added that feature just after the last dlc released.
@@nb9121 the last dlc added the option to swap from the pedersen device to the infantry version, but the animations always were there when using K-bullets
It is a interesting weapon to see irl. I’ve only seen one complete rifle at the nra museum. I’ve seen Springfields mark 1 rifles pop up for sale and only one pederson device for sale.
Love seeing the guns for this game shot for real in Minute of Mae’s on C&Rssnal. Thanks for the shout out Johnathan!
I think it'd be interesting to have someone look at Valkyria Chronicles guns since those have a whole glossary pages dedicated to them. Would be nice to see a military guy react to some of the situations too even if they are just fantasy WW2.
Love watching these. Johnathan is such a person we all look up to. He's like any of us gamer but he's super smart and knowledgable about the topic and not a total "gun nut" but an actual historian
Please Jonathan, made a video on *METAL GEAR SOLID 3* weapons. (Please like the comment so gamespot can finally see it)
So many weapons in MGS3 to react and comment on like the Patriot's infinite ammo magazine, the EZ tranq gun, Snake's customized officer M1911A1, Snake whittling the pistol grip to use a knife for CQC, Ocelot's SAA juggling skills, The End's paratrooper tranquilizer Mosin Nagant, the Davey Crockett recoil-less nuclear launcher and Eva's chinese mauser clone.
There are so many more other interesting trivias and weapons in MGS3 so please gamespot and Johnathan make a video that isnt just more call of duty or tarkov (as much as I love those series) it just feels stale now revisiting the same games for multiple videos.
Doubt it, they only make videos for battlefield, tarkov and call of duty 🤣
Some weapon suggestions for a part 3
Assault: Hellriegel 1915, Ribeyrolles 1918
Medic: Mondragón, Fedorov Avtomat
Support: Huot Automatic, Perino 1908
Scout: Lebel Model 1886, Type 38 Arisaka
Sidearm: Obrez Pistol, Peacekeeper (lol)
Loving the "cycle of violence " t shirt! My favourite C&Rsenal design!
Also, Martini Henry’s were used as early balloon busters during WWI. And, I don’t wanna disagree with Jonathan here, but on the Browning M1917, US Marines in WWII were trained to fire the things from the hip. I actually have a picture of four Marines training on hip firing both Browning 1917s and 1919s.
This is why I love Battlefield 1’s weapon cosmetics; the absolute worst in terms of realism is just black wood and gold with ornate, classic engravings that feel appropriate to the time period, so you can semi-realistically imagine some flamboyant officer from a noble family using a gun like that.
All of the weapon cosmetics are a mix of classic Victorian era beauty and camouflage patterns (as well as damage and blood on the apocalypse weapon skins). They also often have realistic additions like cloth or rags on LMG barrels to protect someone holding the gun from getting burned.
It may not be 100% realistic, but it feels respectful to the time period, and it shows how dedicated the devs were to not taking the player out of the experience, unlike other historical shooters nowadays which often have over-the-top, multicoloured animated skins.
Always been a MG guy in FPS so love the attention shown to the LMG/HMGs in this video.
Looks like he’s using a camera from 1914
When Jonathan is going through your friend's work on BF1. Martin Kopparhed you did good, you did good. 😄👍
I don't even care about guns but I find watching Jonathan talking about what could be anything at all, really interesting. When's he going to do pottery, posters or pogo sticks? I'd watch it. Thanks J
The howell had a bipod because of the footage Ian of ForgottenWeapons did on it.
The example he got his hands on did have a bipod, although he mentioned it was added in a second time, DICE added it anyway to fit the semi auto support type weapon niche.
Some of the anachronistic guns are “justified”(still doesn’t make sense to see germans usingt Thompson annihilators in verdun) because with DLC2: In the name of the Tsar the game extended to the Russian civil war as well
Surprised he didn't say anything about the Hotchkiss not being able to be tactical reloaded like they do in the game. You can't just push the full clip though it because there's only room for the empty clip to come out after the rounds have been fed.
8:23 The French actually ordered a grand total of five thousand Winchester 1907 rifles (not sure how many of these were actually received) throughout the war, with orders for the .351SL cartridge exceeding 1.5 million rounds by 1917. The 8x35mm intermediate round for the Ribeyrolles 1918 automatic carbine was allegedly produced by necking down the .351SL round.
I am so glad this game is making a comeback
Yes I know that there are no historical records of the villa perosa being modified to have a pistol grip,
Best Battlefield game out there... Love Battlefield 1...
FINALLY, IVE BEEN WANTING HIM TO DO A PART 2 FOR AGES
John Basilone got the Medal of Honor on Guadalcanal by carrying and hand firing an M1917. Granted he burned his hands and scared them doing so but he did it
I'm sure someone, or many people, have already pointed out the arched mainspring housing on the 1911 is the A1 type, not the original 1911 flat version.
Bf1 is the best ever glad a part 2 was made 💙💙
Been waiting for this one. Please give us part 3 if possible! COD games get so many episodes but the devs on this one must have done so much more research on wacky real life prototypes and period guns than maybe any game ever.
Imagine Jonathan reacting to the new Rorsch Mk4 railgun and the bullpup pistol, and the DP-12 shotgun in 2042. lol
Hearing the sounds of the Howell Automatic Rifle once again is music to my ears
The Howell Automatic did have a bipod.
At least the one Forgotten weapons had has one
I thing Ian mentioned that the bipod was not original but did fit the time period
It was added by a later owner.
Had the Howell been mote widely used during ww1. I can see the gun attached with a bipod because if Forgotten weapons puts a bipod on it for reasons. I can see Brits doing the same in the trenches.
I will say, the specific M1909 Benet-Mercie they're showing there is the Telescopic version, which is specifically designed from a gameplay perspective as well not to be shoulder-fired -- it has that telescopic sight for a reason. You usually see people perched a million feet up on something with that thing, firing laser bolts down at the ants beneath them, rather than Ramboing it around -- and the Telescopic is by far the most popular B-M in my experience of getting shot by it. Very good gun for creating the Authentic World War 1 Experience of getting razed to the ground by distant MG fire.
The bulgarians used the Peabody Martini Henry for the duration of ww1 due to the shortage of alot of their bolt action rifles , pretty cool beauties
Man, nothing tickles me more than learning about older guns. Lol I love seeing what the classic gunsmiths and inventors came up with when trying to advance their firearms! It feels like you really don't see this kind of innovation these days.
I want to see johnathan duelwielding
sturmweghers again
Battlefield 1 is easily one of my favourite FPS games, glad to know that they put a lot of time and effort into making the guns authentic.
I love battlefield 1. It's so unique compared to the modern times shooters.
I adore little engineering details like the Cei-Rigotti trigger. That's fantastic.
I would like to see Jonathan react to the weapons of Warframe and David to react to the melee weapons of Warframe
13:10 The Martini rifle was used in WWI, I believe in Africa and Arabia due to a shortage of rifles. It would have probably been more likely to come across a Martini Enfield given it shared the widely used .303 chambering.
The m1903 experimental actually used to be a completely separate gun from the regular m1903 with no ability to switch between the two. It was also the worst gun in the game by far.
Protect Jonathan and the museum at all costs
You should do a video on bioshock infinite I like the style of the old 1900's esc weapons and would love to hear Johnathan's thoughts on them
This is exactly what I have been waiting for, exactly, this is exactly what I've been waiting for
I'd love to see him react to the Generation Zero guns.
Props to Johnathan for teaching us about weapons and their facts. He could very well refuse. Either way we respect you!
It’d be cool to have Jonathan play the bf1 campaign
This guy and forgotten weapons should have a range day together and just wax poetic on their favorite historical guns
I've been playing BF1 since day one, and I'm just now learning you can turn the Springfield experimental into a regular Springfield?!
Yeah, press the button to switch fire modes. It's generally inferior to the other bolt actions because of the fact that you can't rezero the sights and that the sweet spot is around 150 m while the sights are locked at 75 m. I greatly prefer either the Arisaka, Ross, or Winchester Trench for close range combat because of this.
Loving Jonathan's calculator watch, I had one of those growing up :)
The M1907 in game is actually the French-modified M1907/17 with a long 20-round mag and FULL AUTO fire capability. However, the cyclic rate of fire of that in BF1 was way too slow and was thus updated to a more proper rate in BFV
It was NOT full auto or fitted with extended magazines. Someone saw “automatic” in the documentation and assumed that meant full-auto rather than self-loading. They were just regular 1907s.
@@Horgler When there is this one man named William Morgan using a full auto converted version of it with a 35-round drum mag of all things in Cuba, it's not impossible that it wasn't full auto. Plus no one has agreed to your claim so that's that too.
@@invictusangelica No one agreed to my claim? Buddy, you're the one pushing this based on a single anecdote which is likely from the interwar years. Have an excerpt from IMFDB.
"There is a completely unconfirmed opinion that supposedly weapons in French service used a larger 15 or 20 round box and some were converted to select-fire. In the end, it turned out that all rifles delivered to France were standard M1907, completed with magazines for 10 rounds. They were used to arm aviators, and there is no evidence of their use in ground forces. The only one weapon passed off as a "French trench version" ended up from Cody Firearms Museum (USA), S/N 47357, manufactured in 1935, with extra long magazine, sling swivels, and bayonet lug (for US M1892 Krag bayonet), was offered for sale only to law enforcement and penitentiaries. These rifles were first proposed by Winchester in 1934. The myth of "fully automatic conversion" comes from the mention of ordered rifles in one of the documents with the word "auto", although in those years this was a typical term for semi-automatic weapons."
@@Horgler Ah yes of course, IMFDB. Just like Wikipedia, IMFDB is open source so people may get it wrong.
I found a quote of that on a forum page called The High Road with a post in 2007-2008:
"A French solution to the problem was the puchase of 2,500 Winchester Model 1907 semiautomatic rifles. Before accepting their delivery, the French had Winchester to convert them to full-auto."
Captain Monty Mendenhall, "The MP18,I: Imperial Germany's First Subgun", SMALL ARMS REVIEW, p. 24, January 2004.
and
The book on "The Forgotten Winchesters" makes no mention to any being converted to full auto, although I agree it is possible
and
As far as I know there was only one full auto chambered for the .351 ctg. and it was made by Thompson Arms as a more powerful alternative to the .45acp ctg. The War Dept. rejected it due to complications of ammo supply.
Anyways, I am on the IMFDB's Discord server and discussing with fellow gun enthusiasts and editors online. I will keep this updated as much as possible.
Marini Henry's that had been rechambered into .303 did see limited service in the British forces during the initial arms shortage after the heavy losses of the expeditionary force at the outbreak of the war. They were reserved for rear echelon troops as they didn't exactly want someone going over the top with a single loading rifle, but they did see active, non frontline (One would hope) service during the war.