Wing Chun vs Grappling: Can It Really Work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
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Can Wing Chun hold its own against grapplers? In this deep dive, we explore how the principles and techniques of Wing Chun-like trapping, structure, and sensitivity-can be adapted to counter takedowns, clinches, and ground control. Featuring breakdowns, practical applications, and insights from real-world scenarios, this video puts Wing Chun's effectiveness against grappling to the test. Whether you're a fan of traditional martial arts or modern combat systems, you won’t want to miss this clash of styles!
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💬 Let us know in the comments: Can Wing Chun handle a grappler in YOUR opinion?
Finally a video about a legit Wing Chun grandmaster going against grappling. I have been wondering what Sifu Milos would do against grappling. I love that you guys are collabing. Can't wait to see more.
@@bloodyhippozz1900 Milos has a very open mind to grappling. He even spars with bjj rules against me. Most wing chun guys wouldn’t do that whom I’ve met.
Thanks for the comment!
@@inside_fightingIt is always fun and good to have our exchanges💪🏻
And he's in good shape, something traditionalists forget about. Condition hands on bags by hitting things, keep your body strong.
@@inside_fightingMilos is okay, but that techniques he showed still need to be tested real time in real hard sparring against very high level b🇧🇷jj guys, judokas🥋, wrestlers🤼♂️ even nak muays🥊. And too complicated🧠 to learn🤯 let alone master.
The best methode against grapplers is the kyokushin way which is specializing in bodyshots coz they dont have punches to the face or head at all. Coz even khabib countered justin gaethje's hard muay thai low kick with a take down and finished him right away⚡. Good grapplers like to counter jab, straight, hayemaker, especially hook with a take down, but they cant do it against uppercut especially to the body. They r trained to catch any incoming mid and high kick to grab the leg and take down right away. So the best thing for strikers against grapplers is not doin 1-2 jab to the face and straight or uppercut or hook to the body, but🍑 1-2-3-4 right jab (I'm a southpaw) to the chest like when dom reyes knocked jon down, especially epigastrium if u can, then left uppercut or left straight to the navel or left hook to his right ribs, then left low kick to his right leg, then right uppercut to under his chin or right hook to the left side of his jaw. This is to prevent him from taking u down by countering your punches to his face or head by ducking🦆 down under your punch and straight away taking u down. If in the process of u inisiate to punch him first with a jab or straight to his epigastrium and your second punch either to his navel or ribs, he catches u, u better turn to muay thai clinch mode right away⚡ and knee his navel or epigastrium or ribs, then knee his face with your other leg. But dont knee him as your first striking attack☝️, coz u've always gotta prepare incase if he's ready to block your knee and catch the back of your knee to drag u down.
For real street fight situations, single or double leg take down freestyle🤼♂️ or b🇧🇷jj style is the dumbest🤦🏻♂️ way of getting the practitioners killed in an instant⚡therefore the easiest to handle, just counter him with a 12 to 6 elbow or hammer fist or the church praying hands gesture or standard chinese palm holds fist saluting hands gesture to the back of his head, neck, body, especially karate chop to the back of his neck, no ref nor rules will safe him.
U need a solid take down defense way more than u need a good take down and grappling skillz in a real street fight situation, coz even if u got a great take down counter and u counter the attacker's take down on u with u taking him down instead and landing on top of him on the hard aspalt or concrete in a dominant position ready to GnP him or make a slick submission on him, still☝️🤨 u gotta prepare for the worst case scenario where he could possibly scream for help like playin victim and his friends come to his resque 🤷🏻♂️. Thats why u still need krav maga even tho you're a b🇧🇷jj black belt and long student of muay thai.
Can't say I agree or even fully understand the advantages of this parallel leaned back stance, but it's good to see different perspectives anyway. Thanks for the educational content!
@@Orimthekeyacolite i love seeing different views whether they work for me personally or not. That’s the beauty of martial arts. I have a combat sports base so i move more like one would expect. I have my way of moving after all these years and am comfortable but also realize what works for me doesn’t work for everyone.
Ilan, thanks for being so open minded: we benefit from it because you attract similarly minded guests. Great collaboration.
Thanks so much! Really happy that the people who watch have the same appreciation for all these styles. Normally TH-cam is filled with pure hate so i got lucky
So Wing Chun deals with grapplers with grappling. The difference is the goal of Wing Chun’s grappling is to create space or punish the other guy for attempting things like headlocks whereas the goal of the other guy is to take you to the ground and then secure a submission, a pin, or ground and pound.
thats so cool !
what I understand basically, is that with a foot in front, you automaticaly sacrifice one parameter among these 3 when executing a punch:
1) reach (the shoulder, connected to the spine and the head, is further away from the target)
2) balance (in order to correct the first parameter when punching, you must advance your head, place your center of gravity, on the front leg + raise the rear heel)
3) mobility (in order to correct the previous parameter it is necessary to lower the center of gravity)
Love these guys. Great video, thank you. I want to train with these guys.
One day, one of you will go for a swim.
That one double leg had me worried for a second :)
I love this series. Please continue making more of those!
@@FlorisGerber i have good control 🤣 also the water ain’t bad unless i get attacked by a gator
Milos is a real deal!
That is true.
Thanks!
@@MYVLMA Жив био мајсторе. Учим другу форму преко интернета. Планирам отићи до Београда и повезати се са неким клубом Винг Чуна.
@ драго ми је. Само напред! Бог нека ти благосиља и жив био
I love it when you guys collaborate. It's cool to see Wing Chun applied practically and effectively.
I still believe that it takes a lot of time and dedication to get to a high level in Wing Chun for basic self defense, but man is it impressive (I'm sub'd to both of you) so the subtleties have so much impact.
Appreciate the sub and really glad you enjoy the content 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Excellent. Milos is soft spoken and explain very well. True master and nice guy. Thanks
He’s a great martial artist
Man if only all Wing Chun schools had an articulate and skilled instructor like this guy. So much Wing Chun being taught is stuck in the past imho.
You realize that this is the old version of Wing Chun right? It's not "stuck in the past" but rather it was never presented to an educated public.
Lovely Milos is brutally good 🔥 much respect to both of you Oss!!! ❤
Thank you 🙏🏼
Thanks!
Wow that was amazing. This looked so good, and you could see the legitimate kinetic counter-rotations in play that you do not see often in MMA fights. This is very high level and very fluent. Very practical. It looks very similar to the way Donnie Yen depicted Wing Chun in the IP Man movies -- even with the "messy" way that Greco Roman wrestling attempts to sync the clinch, the Wing Chun movements to get out of the way or redirect the momentum was very smooth. I would love to see some real-time sparring using these kind of techniques.
I find that wing chun against pure grappler works much better when the wing chun guy integrates strikes. Otherwise it’s not exactly a fair fight as they are playing the wrestlers game
@@inside_fighting Absolutely. It's nice to finally see a good counter to wrestling, because most in the MMA community completely discount almost all forms of Wing Chun, with some popular commentators notoriously calling it "ineffective", but here we see that it can be very effective even against grapplers when applied with the right techniques.
You guys should do a clinch video together, so we can get a view of wing chun through something we may be able to understand more!
Thanks very much. always excellent instruction.
Wing Chun Leg entries built my stand up grappling so much! It's so good
The two of you together are some of the best videos. Because he is really doing wing chun and you are really doing grappling instead of the typical master-student videos we always see where the student doesn't really know what he is doing. 😆
Really all that changes in how he does it, is he threw the idea that this is some kind of artistic way to handle violence with pillowtalk out the window.
There's nothing really wrong with the principles of wing chun, you just have to emphasize the fact that you are fighting, not dancing. Every move demonstrated is suddenly a very much viable option just by accepting the fact that you need force to hurt.
To leave a dent you need to dig inside and go trough the target just like every other style. Shotokan karate has some of the same problems, I've trained it some along with years of kyokushin, and honestly I couldn't figure out why shotokan wouldn't work just fine untill I started sparring them like it's kyo. If you wanna learn to fight, it's not just the techniques, it's the intention. You can very much wing chun smack or frontleg roundhouse someone into a coma no problem, you just have to commit to hurting.
For a frontleg roundhouse they usually teach to touch by basically jsut unchambering. The power comes from jumping forward, falling down, pulling down just at connection, and connecting in a 45degree angle. They teach the move as basically just a footjab, no real damage, just something in the void. It's a killshot if you actually put power into it.
Top job much love from Greece.
I studied karate in my youth. Chi sao was by FAR the most useful skill I EVER learned. I don't care what others say.
It’s a great supplemental thing to add to any training
Which karate style did you study? The one I trained, did not have chi sao.
@azazelreficulmefistofelicu7158 Shorin-ryu, but my sensei encouraged cross training. The whole point was to make it your own.
11:22 you almost ended up being tosser in the water back there lol 😆😆..
This is such good content! Keep it up
Great stuff as always
Much appreciated
As long as it's adapted then it sure can. One single style isn't enough these days, It's progressed too far. I for one am happy to see where it's going
I agree. Cross training and adapting has been my journey
It’s been on my list for years. I often wonder if it depends on the school and if grappling is involved. I love the stuff Sifu shows though. A great apologist for the art.
@@dmcc1703 he’s fantastic
uhhhh "apologist????" That ain't the right word! He's a proud propagator of WT. The end!
Yeah it’s the right word.
Very informative. Thanks! Request for a follow-up video, WC defenses against a wrestler's take downs. Thanks again.
We should have a video on WC Takedown defense next week. Subscribe to our channel for more!
This is the only WC instructor that makes we want to learn more WC. Unfortunately there is no WC in this area.
What about this guy / community?
Wing Chun Adam
th-cam.com/video/2dSIdWSunlU/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@SoulFireMoonKing I like Adam Chan but it's only online classes unless your in the NW US. MA it's such an in person type of thing that I hesitate to confine training to a screen and solo drills. I wish I had old school, in person, classes.
Thought we were going to see real time light sparring. 😮
Well bas ruten had a straight on stance
Almost... he had a boxe stand still but almost straight... kyokushin guys do fight almost straight sometimes.
I wonder how you prevent a groin kick with that stance...
Great stuff. Wing Chun is legit! Structure first, then sensitivity, then anything goes!💥
Interesting. Especially the party at the end. I have a JKD background and I taught myself the SLT form from Michael Tse and Ip Chun's book. I often used on sale in no gi grappling to break down my opponent's clench.
Lan sau is very versatile an I like that is the being applied here regardless if the opposing arm is over or under, same wit the tan. Contract pressure is more important then if it is technically receiving, sinking, or pinning, etc. Just because a move is like the shape of it in a form doesn't mean ti is isn't something else. "Moves" in WC have a nature an aren't mutually exclusive.
I'd like to see some sparring of this stance being used if possible.
This seems more like arm chair techniques that work best with a cooperative partner, I don’t think it is meant for sparring
You guys should do a course together!
Please tell me y’all got on the water and did some Snook fishing back in that canal before or after filming?
I allways knew that Leung Ting wing Chun was the best lineage of quality wing Chun... I learned some basic self defense stuff with theyr video cassetes in late 90s, but I didn't know the secrets of the square stance. I hate the square stance and love the sideways and the 45 degree stances, and I fight in these stances in all styles (including wing Chun)...and it works for me because I make it work. The problem with the square stance is that it takes pheraps 20 years to master it and feel comfortable with it. Not for me and I'm a wing Chun guy 😂. I allways make wing Chun work (and any other system work) in the sideways and 45 degree stances, because I fight with hard dress shoes and I'm a long distance fighter, and this makes all the difference. I never fight barefoot (even when training with a partner.
Would love to see a colab with or look at burinkan martial arts, Sifu Russ Smith.
This video is great, btw. I have been loving this type of content thanks for the great quality you always seen to bring to your channel!
Will check him out out! Glad you like this direction m for the channel
Good information in this video once again but when you both stopped for the inch is enough announcement I couldn't stop laughing. All you were missing was THE MORE YOU KNOW! sign overhead!
🤣🤣🤣 i wish i added that
I bet you watch a lot of TEEVEE
Izzo Wing Chun had a video where he had wrestlers shoot on him. There was a brief moment where the wrestlers face would be pushing into his arms and looked uncomfortable. But they were always able to get the takedown if they kept pushing.
That’s the thing with wrestling is that it’s relentless and that’s how it works but that was without strikes. I think wing chun needs striking against wrestling to work.
@@inside_fightingnon stop relentless vicious strikes 😉
@@MYVLMA Yes and no.. when a wrestler is powering through you and taking your base, you won't necessarily get the power out of your shots for you to continue to strike. But "ripping" you can do. That could be fish hooking, thumbs to eyes, fingers raking the face etc.. both catch wrestling and traditional arts have ripping as part of the playbook. Everyone should train themselves to go to the next set of weapons as one becomes neutralized. (while thinking of positioning and base of course).
@@Polentaccio yes that’s why I said relentlessly and viciously…who wants more gets more.
Understandable, since Wing Chun, like Muay Thai and Sanda, is a composite art encompassing both striking and grappling. Lets say a Thai fighter would also struggle against a freestyle wrestler if he could not strike at all.
Now, a Sanda fighter would arguably do much better than the previous two, those guys are monsters at standing grappling.
Sifu Milo. Can you please explain why Sifu Leong Ting's senior students don't spar in the WC neutral stance?🙏
Now for people who may not live in florida, you may be wondering if there are gators in that channel?
In florida you always assume yes. Every time. Specially south florida.
Also, just to be clear. You're not winning a grapple against a gator in the water.
There are definitely gators lol but the water is brackish
@@inside_fighting im over at the treasure coast and its always funny to see northerners freak out when there's a gator in their golf pond. Lol.
If that water feel wet then there be gators
@ i am a Florida man. I fight gators daily 🤌🏽
"You have to come and train here." What does that mean exactly? Is Milos talking about his school or do you have a school?
I teach Privates so he meant at my outdoor gym i built
Beauuuuutiful!!!! That’s what we studied back in the 90 in Italy/europe! I miss training the old wt!
Come on in then!
@ unfortunately here in Australia, after our sifu retired, there is nobody to guide my journey into our beautiful system
@@francocremasco6720 we have a lot of subscribers in Australia, maybe we should plan a seminar over there!
I recently saw in Fight Commentary Breakdown a Mantis guy plow a MT guy. The size helped,but it seemed what intimidated the MT guy was clinching. Mantis has a squared stance,stuffing pressure and trapping.
It seems that the key to defeat MT is overwhelm them in the clinch ,their "Ol'Reliable" weapon.
So,Wing Chun and other SCMA seems to be the best prospective to find an alternative winning clinching technique.
They have a study in bridging and such.
FMA and Karate seems to have a connection to it ,Jeet Kun Do people have been exploring that for years it seems.
@@junichiroyamashita i would imagine that wing chun and mantis have lots of overlap in the clinch.
We welcome all styles to Rajadamnern and Lumphini to come and test their styles. But it will never happen.
horrible advice....
Great video, very entertaining. But Wing Chun is one of those things that looks good on paper and theory.
lol this video is about practic ;D
Great video
Do an episode on Ted Wong JKD, please.
Will do 🙏🏼
Do you see wing chun as a grappling style in disguise?
I've always thought it was most effective if you consider it a clinching style. Think Chinese "muay thai." Some of the best wing chun I've seen its point-blank control the center line. Stay sticky. So yeah, imo clinching style.
@@TheKillaMethodagreed
It's close fighting or clinching but "grappling" per say... Idk... I don't see a wing chun guy able to stop any experienced grappler (llike BJJ, Luta livre, Sambo or catch wrestling)
Um. No.
If not a grappling style in disguised I do believe all Kung Fu systems are at least anti grappling styles
As a chunner living in Florida I need to get my A down to a Sifu Milos class in 2025
To my fellow chunners, take another look at 2nd section of CK in reference to what he's showing. Food for thought 😉
When you go lemme know and I’ll come by too 💪🏽
Yup
Thoroughly enjoyed and respect these men as martial artists but for me if I had to really in win chun as my first line of defense I would just opt to run. I’m a hobbyist Jiu Jitsu fan and Muay Thai fan and find these to disciplines substantial.
I’m a bjj black belt and did Muay Thai most of my life… every style has a different focus and benefit and purpose
A French MMA fighter was doing quite the same video with two confrontations (one limited to strking, and the other one to grappling) with a Wing Chun fighter. The conclusion is not too different from the one here, even if it's underlining the limit of Wing Chun once grappled.
Here is the TH-cam link of this video (fights starting at 16:45) :
th-cam.com/video/X_5exhbIdx0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ya0kcOdMCvD0FrzX&t=1008
Hello Inside Fighting, I trained for several years, but I had to stop because of a bad knee. I see you're wearing some knee support. So, I want to ask you, do you think it's possible to train after a meniscus surgery? Btw: I like your videos, I can clearly see from the self-defense point of view, that you've a lot of experience and knowledge.
@@dostma1 it’s absolutely possible. I have a torn meniscus in both knees, torn acl and torn MCL and i still train. You just have to built it up and gain Confidence. I use the Don joy brace
@@inside_fighting Thank you for your encouragement, I've just returned from the surgery. I hope I'll be able to train in the future too. Did you have stop training any of the sports like BJJ or wrestling to save your knee or you can train anything? Did you use some special workout for to build the knee strenght or just regular? I wish you to train safe!
A good fighter can make wing Chun work well (even if his knowledge about wing Chun is incomplete). A good fighter can make most systems work well...I consider myself to be one (modesty to the side). Wing Chun isn't made for combat sports... But a good fighter can apply 30 to 50 % of the system successfully in combat sports. But where wing Chun really shines is in self defense and real fighting situations...and this is a thing that people need to understand. The same can be said for other systems, especially Chinese systems like ba Gua, tang Lang, Bajiquan, tong bei, Mi zhong, eagle claw, and many others...these systems can't be used well in combat sports, they were made for real fighting. Personality I'm a guy that enjoys the best of every system and incorporates new ideas to my own system (I think it's what Elan does as well).
Much appreciated! That’s my goal. I agree that wing chun shines in explosive self defense situations where driving in and attacking a lot makes a big difference
@inside_fighting exactly! Continue with your work. You are a true martial artist and a warrior, I've noticed that you had a street fight in Portugal and you behaved like a matured and measured man.
Agreed. Many traditional systems can work if drilled and made practical. But a sporting event involves faints, tactics, high levels of athleticism. Most street altercations just involve aggression. Attacker commits 100%. For that, a lot of these systems hold value.
Like everyone else is saying you need live sparring to apply this, if you don’t then it all falls apart. This is coming from someone who does Wing Chun btw.
great inform，
notice how a lot of traditional martial arts techniques are mainly for grappling but mistaken as striking. No wonder traditional martial arts have a bad reputation when it comes to fighting
you can always turn disadvantage position to advantage
Since late 90s I've allways considered wing Chun to be the best system for self defense and real fighting, it was made to make a smaller week person defeat a bigger stronger and faster one. These last years I found out that wing Chun isn't the only one good system out there, but... It still is maybe the best at least in it's specialties. It was disturbing to watch the fighting community trashing wing Chun and only seeing videos of alleged wing Chun practitioners being defeated easily, wich most of it weren't legit practitioners but kids, imitators and clowns, or just weak fighters with low fighting IQ. It was like a black Magick matrix launched on the planet with the purpose of degrading the reputation of the art as much as possible... Now, it's reputation and real image is coming back again to it's normal state.
Thanks for your comment!
@@MYVLMA you r welcome. Thank you for your work and teachings. I really learned things with your videos about wing Tsung that I didn't know.
have a live sparring together already:)
We do. We do it off camera out of respect for each other 🙏🏼
Dudes brace! Ouch! God's speed!
I have torn ligaments sadly
But would he start a fight/sparring with this traditional stand ?
@@skillpat1827 I’m not sure but i think the point is that wing chun doesn’t spar in the way most people think about. Milos has people attack him and he fights back. It’s task driven. The philosophy is different.
@skillpat1827 the point of the parallel stance is just a training stance from the fact that humans either stand on one leg or two , being parallel is a possibility especially in non pre fight situations a day to day posture, the skill is though being able to move from this position to any other positions to move forward back up or down in response, but not to be fixed to the stance as a fighting stance that's where so called tradition goes wrong. But from the tai chi point of view of maintaining balance often we practice in this parallel stance like in wing chun sticky hands to explore the possibility of balance in each posture the limits of when to move before losing balance. But most don't practice this way they have become stiff and can easily be taken down due to lack of stance and footwork practice. But no one style is the best anyway each style has its unique thing we can't all be good at everything wing chun is good for what it is a basic form of kung fu for self defence in a more traditional but urban environment. This is why most wing chun people expand like bruce did because its more of a specific part of martial art training than an art designed for modern combat against a modern mixed martial artist.
If you are referring to the front /square stance that he demonstrates in the video... than, yes that's how they start a fight in the Leung Ting system, but I believe I also saw them starting fights (in demonstrations) where they start in the other stance (one foot forward and the other at the back)...it wasn't this teacher (Milo) but others like Victor Gutierrez, Emin Boztep (wich is considered the best of the entire lineage)... Actually they have demonstrations of both stances and they all work (I personally made the 45 degree stance work really well, and I don't like the front stance). The point is that each stance have it's own advantages and disadvantages (there are videos on TH-cam also speaking about this)...and in this wing Chun system they teach to start in the front stance, but there's some practitioners that came from other systems (like kickboxing, taekwondo, etc), Emin Boztep is one of these guys (I'm also one 😅) and some of us have a hard time feeling comfortable in the front square stance (especially me) so some of us prefer the sideways, 45 degree stances (and variations of these). Each person is unic and should adapt the things that he is most comfortable with.
Aint no hug like a bro hug.
I’ll take those underhooks.
Where the head goes the body follows.
Would the DLT not be the easy answer?
Hey great video! Was interesting with the wing Chun stance how it's harder to find the entry to the leg or clinch. I'm a boxing coach and have been doing Muay Thai for a long time. But I've been feeling like I should learn some grappling. I have done lots of push hands and I've done lots of clinch work from Muay Thai. Do you thinks that's enough for me to defend /neutralise a grappler so I can use my striking. I'm very long and tall with really good footwork so I'm able to keep the distance.
I’d say every person should be exposed to blue belt level bjj because no matter what you can end up on the ground. With a strong Thai clinch and push hands I’d say that bjj would be the best supplement even though i have lots of issues with how it’s taught nowadays
Come on guys, this is all yap and no live sparring because we both know if the black belt wanted to take you down and control, then hes doing it. Drills and theory is disingenuous. I get its eaten up by Gung fu guys I did Kung fu years ago and I respect it, but these are people who have never rolled or sparred against elite fighters but if you want to prove this works do a proper round. It just disrespects sub grappling
Milos has rolled with me tbh and I’m a second degree black belt in bjj… he doesn’t claim he could beat a bjj guy at bjj… he claims there’s techniques in wing chun that can help your grappling and that in a real fight things are a lot more chaotic and dangerous for the bjj guy than in rolling or sparring which i agree… if i can best Milos in bjj that’s not surprising.,, if he can beat me in wing chun… that’s not surprising… we both have our own worlds… what’s fascinating is for self defense and survival what works. I feel Milos would do very well in a street figjt against most people
You two are like a rottweiler and a pitbull playing in the yard
My two cents: The way not "violate you principles" is to train from disadvantage, train from position where your structure is compromised an not from perfect structure. The see if you can regain structure. Too often student are told off for not using something, they have never had to recover. That isn't their fault. It is the same as the never disengage or never step back advocates. Those people are being set up for failure because they will not know what to do when they are not in an ideal position. There is a really fine line between teach good practice and not teaching a person to adapt to their scenario based on whatever situation thy have got themselves into for whatever reason. That said training shades of grey is better then always worst case.
There is a kick in first form. It is one that is often only done on one side in the form but should be practices on both sides. It is an oblique (inverse) turning kick for non WC practitioners. . Now a good application of above is put the student in terrible structure, the partner is pulled forward off balance and still held onto. Now get them to figure out o use this kick how to regain structure while using this kick. Then ask them to compare what they did to huen ma.
A lot of inside boxing has position you would think are disadvantageous (and yes from kick boxing POV they can be). But much of thee movement are evasive and they are constantly regain structure to generate power.
Is there any light sparring between these two anywhere?
We spar a lot with each other just don’t film it
@@inside_fighting Would be great to see what that would even look like, I tired searching the video history but there's about 10 videos of different unique techniques, but none in real time or any resistance
@ well the problem when we spar is we play each others games… so if he’s doing just grappling with me it’s not an accurate depiction of wing chun… or if we do punching and striking but like combat sports it’s still not accurate or really fair so what we do is we do live resistance with a task. My goal is to attack him hard and he must defend etc
@@inside_fighting I can understand that, its not exactly easy to film application of techniques with live resistance. I get that plenty of people here love to see videos of compliant training. However it would be great to see when techniques work, and when they don't, Jeff Chan does a great job of this with any technique that is presented. You get to really see the advantages and disadvantages of both. th-cam.com/video/MmmWEerKaAU/w-d-xo.html Here is an example with Kevin Lee, who is also a BJJ black belt. Then again Jeff Chan is also a BJJ black belt, LOL. Wing Chun absolutely does work, however very very few can apply that Wing Chun to a large degree of their striking. The greatest I have see is Qi La La from fight commentary breakdowns, however most wing chun you see in sparring will be more the "icing on the cake." As in their foundation essentially turns to 90% kickboxing, the 10% wingchun.
Reach advantage.
Let's see a simulation on the mat. It might add some value to see things while flowing
So why isn’t wing Chung in MMA 🤔
@@markalford5406 it is.. Tony furgeson, rose namajunas, Anderson Silva, and many more
Ok I stand corrected, cheers
Petition to add 3:06 to your video intro 😂
😂😂😂
Wing Chun has some good anti grappling it's just the flawed concepts of so called traditional wing chun gets it wrong . They mostly lack footwork and balance having no base relying on fast arm movements , forgetting the disadvantages of not managing range. Having the idea that a straight line is the shortest point from a to b and that the centreline is only located by hitting the centre of a body . Because of the movies and ideology their guard is often too low and too closed . But that's not all wing chun , this is good content, thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed!
I disagree with balance both issue because we have sticky legs practice that actually develops stationary and mobile balance, the footwork is very sharp to close gap and take the blindsided
@jacobharris954 actually agree wing chun has sticky legs for this but some wing chun schools hardly do any sticky leg or blindfolded training .some only practice moving forward with the idea they can just move forward all the time with a half step knocking everyone's arms out the way , but life not like that as proved in ufc 1 . Real Wing chun would obviously move back or keep balance when attacked with take downs , like any real mma fighter would , but that's OK too most wing chunners do it for self defence they don't do it to practice fighting against skilled wrestlers . I like wing chun btw 30 years of it , a good system but not always practiced as intended.
I like this concepta and ideas. But there always comes the time to check theory in real life. Waiting for full contact sparring with beginner, medium and advanced level wrestlers or MMA practitioners.
that's Not What my Girlfriend said...😊
There is a very old video of a Wing-Chun Sifu fighting a wrestler in a ring. This was around the start of MMA. I can't find the video now but he got his butt whupped. Similar would happen against many Karate systems as well. Wing-Chun is not a complete style.
Want to know how good your Wing-Chun is? Visit a boxing or MMA gym and ask to spar. Many won't let you but some will.
7:34 Chi gerk?
First a back stance is not unique to Wing Chun. It was in traditional boxing also and also a part of many boxing style like the original philly style , the head doesn't stay still in boxing you have pull, roll, bob and weave, etc. most boxing style would be more centre weighted it is generally bad to lean forward permanently of have the head out. Even Muy Thai they are very upright and the avoid leaning forward because of knees and head kicks.
As a WC practitioner that has train with boxers, I would say that opening stance sometimes called goat stance, is not a fixed position but more of transitional position and foundation of you contention to the ground the power , you hips proving a platform for your torso and head, through the should and elbow an fist. It is not realistic someone walking around like that, or even just stand like that anticipating an attack (people do this and it is doesn't end well). It relates to all the other footwork would and turning power.
I think you would agree that "mirroring" is a misunderstanding of how centre line theory works, and regardless of stance you want to make use of angles so you can have opening they don't have. Obviously both may be trying to trying to achieve this so it question of is better at it. Then there are other types of advantage and control. You actually explained this to your credit.
It is best if martial artist don't try to be physicists in class, unless they have actually studied it. Yes they may have a feel for it and a way of explaining thing, but that vastly different from actual understanding mechanics on that level. It can be that the way of explaining get the job done and practically it works out, just that when using scientific term incorrectly it can make the person sound silly. The mass of the head is around 11lb and the mass of the torso is around 55kg so clearly the centre of mass probably not in head especial for an an adult (if you view them a separate articulated bodies it i one of the masses). Obviously leaning forward a human is going to have to compensate or they will be off balance. Yes may thinking of the head as weight can help, but literately it only contain some of the mass and that should be obvious your torso contain most of your organs , a lot of bones an muscle and it is much bigger so obvious there limit on how heavy a head can be. That isn't to say the head an neck isn't usefully to manipulate, its and the is more to to do with he overall mechanics not just mass.
I actually like in WC when they talk about feel and sensitivity, because it doesn't clash with scientific term and it is relatable. the term "energy" can mean a lot of different thing people and the quite bit different from the scientific term. So i try to elaborate what ti is I'm referring in situ, e.g. resistance, pressure, sensitivity, snap, momentum.
Your approach is different, but you're discussing what we call ma-ai in Aikido. However, ours, you can't kick either unless you reach past ma'ai. Then you're off balance.
Great explanations but without live sparring it falls flat
exactly man, everything looks good till its real and the taller dude side kicks that horse stance to oblivion LOOOL
Again if you want to know if your WC works go to a bjj school and spar with their top students.
Milos has sparred with me. I’m a second degree black belt in bjj (technically third but haven’t visited my coach)..
Post a vid of you sparring Milos. I am not trying to be mean as I once was a Wing Chun/JKD practitioner and what I thought would work doesn't work or rarely ever works when you actually spar with other arts that actually compete in actual combat sports like boxing, BJJ and MMA.
@@ichigobankai2343 Well Milos never claims he can beat a BJJ guy in BJJ or an MMA guy in MMA... so why would he post a video sparring trying to prove a claim that he doens't make? He claims Wing Chun is very effective for self defense and reality based training. I can't go beat a boxer in boxing...
@@inside_fighting It's not about winning or losing its testing to see what actually works and what doesn't work in an actual sparring scenario.
@@ichigobankai2343 you wanna test what works against another martial artist. They wanna test what will work in the street. 2 totally different things
2:35
?? not doubting either of ya, but i watched a japanese fight stand with hands out like that and got the livin hell beat out of him in the ufc.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but I am a kung fu practitioner, I understand giving yourself space as your opponent takes it or vice versa etc and I dont hate Wing Chun I just thought this was funny.
*Stands arbitrary distance away*
"You see now you cannot hit me because I am one inch further away from your reach"
ok what if the guy has 2 inches of reach on you ie longer arms?
what if he steps with his jab and uses his hips and shoulder? (ie like anyone would actually punch)
like this isn't a constant principle with every person and is VERY situational lmao
Well the principal reminds the same in all those cases… you gain range… obviously if the guy is way longer it won’t compensate but my bjj doesn’t work as well on Guys who are 250 solid muscle compared to someone my size either
From a biomechanic perspective, Sifu Milos gives a poor explanation on his ideas about the head. I see that he knows what he is saying, but he needs to work on the way he communicates it. My recommendation to him is to communicate with someone educated in biomechanics and kinesiology, like a physiotherapist or orthopedic, in order to help him properly express these ideas. I find them very good and I would be excited if they were expressed more scientifically and carefully, so that they become more understandable.
I would like to have seen more full speed not a walk through and someone really trying to take him down demonstrations without live actual pressure testing don't mean much
We do that stuff off camera. Milos is the only wing chun guy I’ve ever met willing to roll with me bjj rules
This wont work in a real mma style fight
Theres no anti grappling involved?!? Clickbait. 😞
doood.... come on. i love your vids but bro so many times u could have lifted him on his head lol.
Lol best into in the business.
yea good WIng chun is the real deal. Great to see someone so open for that.
Nope...
Lol! WC?
Love the wing chun content and concepts being applied. I hate this guy... He is no ''grand master'' as some have said.. he waists so much movements doing extra hand play, and gives up his space too often. Hes never in a ''structure'' when he says he is. He may have his elbow down but he's always leaning backwards for some reason..
Would love too see someone from a Wong shun Leung lineage on ur channel showing some real aggression and forward intent.
I have great respect for Milos and find him to be a great martial artist. Do you know of any wing chun guys from the lineage you mentioned in south Florida?
@inside_fighting i as well have respect for those who spend years perfecting their art and find him to a wonderful martial artist. Where i find contention is with the prolific use of the title of grandmaster throughout the leung ting lineage. They don't speak for nor represent the whole of wing chun. In particular when you introduce and teach skills beyond the scope of WC, while referencing yourself as a gm of the form. It's disrespectful. Call yourself a professional martial artist with roots and influences of wc. And call what you teach ''Insert name'' defense arts. Ip man himself did not consider himself a grandmaster, knowing there were other types of wing chun in his day. Which he didn't want to be associated with or speak for. Today there are even more, different delineations of wing chun so diverse they can arguably be considered different styles. In the Ip man lineages he taught many accomplished students. He taught doctors, business men, actors, and dancers. Though he taught very few actual fighters. Wong shun Leung was such a fighter. He fought regularly in rooftop and underground bare knuckle beimo fights and regularly won. Even earned the name of ''Gong sau Wong'' -King of talking hands, for going 60+ fights undefeated. While Leung ting earned the reputation of, a great business man. Respect for his ability to spread WC far and wide. To this day the most wide spread lineage of WC across the world. That says nothing of his ability to fight in his day. And calling yourself a gm is just good for business. Ip man never once named a successor. His own children did not learn WC until after ip man died.. ip chun didn't learn until he was almost 50!
Wong shun Leung was not a good business man. His schools are much fewer and far between. He was a fighter. A street boxer until he found WC. Never once did he or (I hope) anyone from him consider themselves a grandmaster.. to earn that title says quite an accomplishment. Most references are made after their deaths, and by their own students or my media that wanted to sell papers. Again, just good for business. Though to hold the title living, without ever stepping in a ring with and winning against other masters of your artform is quite the boast.
To claim the title of a system with 10+ different lineages that differ drastically from your own is absurd. But it's good for business and sells well.
WC is essentially Chinese boxing. With an evaluation of the most simple, efficient, and direct way to box for the least amount of effort. Today under the WC name you can find any number of different schools teaching different theory's and methods of fighting. Including an unfortunate number of bullshito schools. There is no grand master today nor was there yesterday.
Unless a school has a regular focus on gloves and high contact sparing they don't teach or train fighters. They teach theory and concepts of fighting. Xu Xiaodong proved this violently. Even under WsL lineage if they're not gloving up and getting into a ring or on a mat with live pressure testing regularly!, there still just teaching theory. I'm pretty sure you yourself, could ground the majority of WC masters and especially anyone who considers themselves gm in under a minute. The theory is great, often impressive when properly demonstrated. Demonstration is not application by any means. What's really impressive is, to get into a ring and have someone prove their style with sweat and blood.
I implore you to look at WC as a open system of Chinese boxing with many interpretations. Not as a closed system of enigmatic gong fu. Seek out different lineages specifically for the vastly different explanations and interpretations of the system. Filter the bullshito. If you walk into a school and there isn't pads, bags, and gear on the wall or floor, it's probably a school of theory and concepts. If your looking for fighters, the Wong shun Leung lineage is most likely where you will find them.
All that being said, Sifu Och wing chun is in central Lakeland Florida. He's from the WsL lineage with many accreditations from the ip man family line as well. And never calls himself a grandmaster. He has a branch in Tampa that doesn't look bad. They regularly glove up and box. From what I can see from their site and postings they seam pretty reality based. Although for the chanel I would recommend finding Sifu Och himself if ur ever in his area.
I would like to add my perspective of why I come across as bitter and jaded. I joined a local branch of Leung ting lineage and was in for 3 years under a ''grandmaster''. He had pictures of him in Hong Kong getting certified and everything. Never once did a pad or gloves grace the gym he taught us in. I never noticed the absence of reality based testing or any means of testing whatsoever during that time. I was among his better students and really thought i was learning WC and how to defend myself. Then I got into a real fight. Me and a coworker had beef, so we walked of property and settled it like men. I broke 3 ribs and bled from my ear that day. Got my ass handed to me by a gym bro and was left on the grass contemplating my life choices.
I went back to my ''grandmaster'' with many questions and got no real answers. Train more, essentially. So I left and started a deep dive research into WC history, lineages and known applications that had been documented. What I found was, WC loses! A lot. Like a lot! They lose so much that when other martial artist rank the world of martial arts they place WC with taichi for realistic application. The styles at the top of the list are there because those styles have a common sense of proper pressure testing regularly. They spend most the training time with gloves on sweating through learning how to apply what they practiced. Taichi does not. Neither does the vast majority of WC.
When u really look into WC and evaluate it for what it has, there are not that many actual moves. Very few. The vastness is in concepts of how the few moves available can be applied and used. Just like boxing. Though in boxing, if you spent all your time shadow swinging and playing with jabs, never getting in a ring and finding out what its like to miss a parry and get hit in the face, you don't consider yourself a boxer.
Now when I hear or see a WC sifu using the title of grandmaster, I hear Frank dux talking about his 9th dan black belt and how he fought in a underground kumite.. and my ribs start to hurt while my eye roll to the side.
Joe Lewis was named one the best fighters in the world, in his time. Even Bruce lee named him as such. Never once did he call himself or use the title of grandmaster, though arguably he could have. He was a fighter and we called him a champion.
After much searching I found the WsL lineage and a local private instructor who let me join. The first month we had geared up and he said ''ok, ready? Don't let me hit you..'' and he came in swinging at my face. Granted, lightly. But now i feel like I'm learning how to prevent such a thing and how to deal with it. I realized the more of title a person applies to himself, the less likely that person has earned it or been in a real fight or in a ring.
I believe in wing chun for its simplicity. I see real possibility. I like your chanel for it's realistic and grounded look at the world of martial arts. But when I see Leung ting and some dude using the title of grandmaster, with 4 other grandmasters listed on his website all i see is red flags, and my ribs start to hurt again.
only wrestling or grappling can actually stop a grappler 🤷🏻♂️😂
Wing Chun trumps everything except a low tackle.
Bullshit.