My Honest Opinion on Wing Chun and the IP MAN Movie
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- I get asked about Wing Chun all the time. It might be the most mainstream version of kung fu in the west and I also trained it for a while before switching over the Shaolin Kung Fu. Why? Cause I watched the Ip man movie with Donnie Yen. I know. I was very impressionable. Anyways, this video is about Wing Chun and the shortcomings I see in its style, community and marketing. Enjoy!
@SenseiSeth Can I Make Wing Chun Work?
• Can I Make Wing Chun W...
@MartialArtsJourney Why I Finally Quite Wing Chun
• Why I Finally Quit Win...
Disgusting Behavior
• WingTsun in action: GM...
Chapters:
00:00 I love the Ip Man Movie
03:18 Does Wing Chun Ignore Weight Differences?
04:20 Do Wing Chun techniques prepare you for fights?
06:12 Can you use Wing Chun to defend yourself?
07:32 The Business behind Wing Chun
08:48 How Wing Chun is taught
10:26 The best reason to train Wing Chun
11:15 Summary
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I feel like most martial arts, the principles are USUALLY pretty sound. But then the practice will get a little wonky. Love your approach here sir 👏👏
Also, karate is the same way
love that your here for this vid seth!
Colab when?
I'm so happy Rantoni is slowly creeping his way into the Martial Arts TH-camr bubble. This is just what I needed
Come to Germany and collab Seth
Thanks for the shoutout Ranton! I'm really glad you're bringing attention to these subjects. Traditional martial arts can offer a lot as long as they are transparent and honest in what they offer without misleading the students and/or pretending to be something they are not. The more people will know what some martial arts and what they aren't, the better choices they will make when choosing a martial art. So thanks again for bringing up this subject!
Is it sunday yet?
@@Veckler Hahahahaha. Almost 😁🤯
I really want you guys to do a collab, I'm a big fan of both you AND ranton and it'd be so cool to see you talk about martial arts together in a collab video! Make it happen!
The youtube martial arts cinematic universe is expanding, I see
OMG this is so nice to see! I would love to see you guys collab haha Linkejimai is Anglijos Rokai :)
This video made me feel so much better about the school my son trains in! The Sifu is so humble and positive, and never bad mouths other styles or schools. He's even honest about what works or doesn't work in a street fight. He also loves that my son has other training (Taekwondo and Krav Maga) Thank you so much for this!
Great to hear that! I do have to say it is dangerous your son is training Krav Maga, as it was designed by Israeli special forces to kill. The problem with the fact that every move his designed to kill is that: i) you can't practice sparring properly as you'll kill the other student and ii) if he really is training Krav Maga and is good at it then when he does get into a fight, he'll kill someone or seriously injure them. The latter means that you'll be in court in most jurisdictions, rather than safely away at home recovering from a couple of bruises and laughing about the scuffle. Again, good to hear about your son's training though and don't mean this to be a downer but just a heads up!
If you do an unhealthy complexion 9 times in a task you are very bad. Get good always do better. If you are doing very costly less less less no. If you are always doing the method, then remove blockages.
@@ArgenYargen Krav Maga is bullshit. Its the fact that you wont be able to apply it properly given that you cant train it in real time, and the whole "designed by israeli special forces" is also bs, how many times do you hear about the army or special forces getting into hand to hand combat? They might train it sure but it doesnt make it effective. His son should stop training it sure, but not because its too dangerous, because there are better martial arts to train
@@ArgenYargen what a load if crap. I practiced Krav Maga and you are definitely NOT trained to kill. They have stripped Krav Maga into three levels: civilian Krav maga, law enforcement krav maga and military krav maga. Where a soldier learns to kill a civilian learns to inflict pain/damage enough to escape or to stop the threat.
@@jgappy5643I'd use the only move that Goku never stole from anyone. It always works.
I like how real you keep it. I'm a veteran and have seen combat. We train and train and train for pretty much any situation you can imagine but when the actual combat happens most of that training goes out the window for most people because it never starts the way you expect it. You can train as much as you like but nothing teaches like actual experience.
Not nearly as wild as being a veteran, but this kinda fits here: I've been practicing Taekwondo in my teens, and was fairly successful in tournaments. However: tournaments aren't the same thing as getting attacked on the street. In tournaments, or fighting sports in general, there are rules. Not following them can get you disqualified, and just about nobody wants that.
On the streets, or in your case combat, an opponent or enemy most likely won't follow any of those rules, it's not a controlled setting.
I hope you didn't have it too bad, I can't begin to imagine what sort of hell actual combat really is
This video-essay type content is amazing, you're an incredible writer. Your points are clear, concise, and easy to follow (also love your vocabulary, eg "praxis-oriented" "self-aggrandizing" "litigious"). The diversity of your channel is absolutely unique, and you do it all well
lol sounds like you’re trying to get max points on an school assignment that tasks you with responding to other students. But, I agree.
@@theskullblaze1 that shit is always annoying
@@theskullblaze1 just to piggy back off what you said... lol it does kinda seem like I got paid to write that comment. Idk, I just felt like paying respect to Anton since he's disappeared before and I want him to keep making content haha. He's prob my favorite youtuber rn
@@sxrub3310 lol recieving honest feedback from other students/peers isn't annoying, it's how you improve from constructive criticism.
@@chilliam00 nah it's mostly just shit like "yes you are right, i agree with your point" that aint constructive
Gus Thomas: "Mr. Wilson, karate is one of the oldest forms of self-defense known to man."
Grady Wilson: "It ain't older than running."
And running ain't as old as climbing. 🐒
@@bennichols1113 what about crawling?
@@tor13128 indeed
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sanford and Son
Spot on my friend. If I’m honest, every art is guilty of exaggerating it’s ‘self defence’ ability and many people learn the hard with a beating…
As someone who used to practice the art and teach it, you are spot on about the politics, egos and practice methods. Most especially the part when you said AT LEAST attend a session of boxing. Because I did the same thing and several years later, I am now into Boxing(competed), Muay Thai, BJJ and ultimately, MMA. I saw Rokas' video few years back, and like what I said in that video, you guys hit the nail on the head describing the culture of practicing WC. People even invent their own self-defense achievements saying they beat up some thief trying to pick their pockets etc. They are prone to self-aggrandization since they don't spar therefore not being exposed to violence. And they've got egos. Sparring humbles you and determines where you are in the skill hierarchy, which is consistent to most of the gyms I went to. Sparring is crucial in reminding you how much you suck, that you are not that special, keeps your head on the ground.
Ip Man 1 is such a vibe. One of the most satisfying parts of the movie is showing other styles and masters using there fighting styles! You get scenery and atmosphere before the fire nation attacks. It makes you appreciate the beginning so much more!
I practiced wing chun for 2 years, and I enjoyed every aspect of the martial art. What I did not like was my sifu filling my head with the idea that I could fight anyone with the practical application of wing chun. The longer I practiced it, the more I realized that I would never win a fight in real life. My sifu was over exaggerating what we were learning every day. With that in mind, I continued training in wing chun for fun and I met many great people during that time.
I had the same experience! I bought into it the first year, then I started watching wing Chun vs videos on TH-cam and was like "oh this man is lying!"
@Ur Nemesis delusion rather than lies
My experience too! When I realised that in a self defence scenario i would revert to a martial art i did over 10 years previously, I knew I was done.
Don't know man, one guy did Wing Chun in street fight, he permanently damaged the guys throat, damaged the guys left eye and ripped his ears off, it got so bad, he kicked him on the back of his head.
The term is "exaggerating". There is no such thing as overexaggerating. Do you over realize how silly it can over become? :) I know people keep using it, but it's dumb. Don't be dumb. You can be better.
About the same how I've felt on it throughout my own ongoing Martial Arts journey. I started with western styles in HEMA, learning Ringen, empty hand fighting by Fiore, as well as training with arming sword, round shield, spear, so on and so forth. It helped starting there a lot because there are so many different styles that just fall under the umbrella term of HEMA. So it helped me learn fairly early on that just about every martial art has something to glean from and should be treated as just another tool in your toolbelt. If you practice just one thing and never even consider another style then you're just setting yourself up for failure.
Mike Tyson said it best. “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face”. 😂😅😂😅😂
And then Buster Douglas knocked him the f#@# out :D
This is so spot on to my own experience. I trained Wing Chun as my first martial art and thought it was the best and that I was ready to take on anyone. Then a buddy invited me to come along to his BJJ class and it was a massive eye opener. Lots of sparing and they had a kickboxing class to round out the students skills. Made me realise how impractical my skills were training with them for one day.
The style of wing chun showcased in the movies is a lot more dynamic than how people practice it in real life. Donny Yen slips punches, covers up for incoming attacks, and employs a lot of strategies outside of the regular curriculum. Of course Donny Yen did the choreography, and has a lot of different styles under his belt.
Actually Sammo Hung did the choreography for Ip Man. Same for Prodigal Son which was seen as the best Wing Chun movie for ages
@@aquaticlibrary Oh, well he did a great job. I haven't seen Prodigal Son, but I'd love to see more of Sammo's work. I was bummed out when I ran out of Ip Man to watch.
Any time we seem a martial art being displayed outside of forms, and I include the many kung-fus and karate and etc, it goes either way: the person is brutally destroyed, OR, the whatever martial art behaves and looks like kickbox. Samey, boring (but tried and tested), both-hands-up-protecting-the-face, straight punches, lateral and frontal kicks.
When I say boring I mean the watcher is not caught by any flamboyance, it will look pretty much the same and so there is nothing that says 'ah yes, this is X martial art made for shorter people who fought on boats and hills so they had unstable footing so the movements are shorter', or 'ah yes, Y martial art, the ones who invented this were heavier and taller so they relied on brute force'.
It just all looks like kickbox pretty much, and martial arts practioners will *hate* that.
@@CedricDur I know that, but wing chun specifically doesn't condone high kicks, and Donny Yen kicks people in the face all the time in those films. He uses his whole resume with a wing chun flair for those films. Artistic license. The film wasn't really about wing chun anyway, it was about Ip Man.
It's honestly just choreographed, fantasy stuff. IRL, there would be grappling and people would be knocked out or dazzled with a huge punch or two.
Who doesn't love wuxia fighting tho?
I absolutely love you're mentality. Your message is brilliant and honorable. Great video
Training martial arts just for fun is so underrated in my opinion. It’s a great hobby! There are so many physical and psychological benefits to it, and it’s a shame to me that so many people see training that doesn’t work for self defense as worthless.
Why have fun in a “martial art” that doesn’t work when there are many that do work but can give you that same pleasure. Self defense isn’t fun & games real stuff can happen to people you NEED to be learning to defend yourself especially in 2024 not wasting money to have fun when you could do something that is of use
@@augustine2024 Because martial arts aren’t for self defense. Keep in mind that fighting is not the same as self defense. Someone who has won 6 fights is good at fighting, but someone who has never fought in their life is good at self defense. Stay out of secluded areas at night. Remain in plain sight. If someone is asking to fight you, refuse. If they try to attack, run. That’s what self defense is. Learning how to fight definitely can be useful, but it only comprises about 5% of self defense. Simply walking to the bus with a friend is far more likely to keep you safe than learning to fight.
I think Wing Chun can be great for self-defense, if you have a good teacher (like Francis Fong). But people use Wing Chun in boxing matches and then are surprised when they lose to boxers. It's really not designed for the ring, not without some major modifications anyway.
@austinmanning749 because they won't give you the same pleasure? And martial arts are honestly mostly pointless for self-defense. Practice situational awareness, deescalate and walk armed with at least spray and a taser if you really want a last resort.
martial arts also have the effect of an improved self esteem and that makes you wanting to stand your ground
then you can end up in a bad situation, if you only did it for fun
I actually watched Ip Man fairly recently, and I have to say I absolutely loved it. Donnie Yen did an absolutely amazing job and the fight choreography is some of the best I've seen in any movie. I'm so glad you decided to talk about this amazing film!
Also, fun fact, Donnie Yen actually broke one of Mike Tyson's fingers during the fight scene.
Makes sense, there usually isn't someone dumb enough to strike elbows with the center of their fists instead of first two knuckles.
Donnie thanks God it was only a movie🤣🤣
Have you seen the raid?
Best fight choreography since Ong bak
@@nUmBskulLL watch warrior 2019 series
@@MD-br2my thank you! Always looking for martial arts films
Have you seen Kenshin? It's sword play but it's absolutely brilliant
Having been in a situation involving two attackers with knives in the back of a car, I used all of my training to...
Just prevent escalation till I could kick the window out and jump out of the car. Till this day Im thankful for having a truthful and realistic sensei.
Nigerundayooo smokey
Smart. Yeah... i have a lot of training & sparring with knives and the sparring teaches you that you don't ever want to be on the other end of a knife. Much better to talk your way out of it and/or run.
Whenever the topic of knife "fights" comes around I like to advise the video of the stabbing in a train station in Brisbane in 2022.
The whole thing was over in under 10 seconds. Dude got stabbed in the throat and that was it. It happend incredible fast, and I'm sure noone involved had any skill im any sort of martial art.
The point is:
Avoid a confrontation with a knife at all costs.
@@Kremit_the_Forg correct Kermit, usually people don't know they have stabbed UNTIL they've been stabbed.
Blicky reigns supreme in a fight nobody is bulletproof deescalation is the best strategy unless you’re sure they’re unarmed
I studied Kenpo Karate first and then later GJJ but I wanted to try Wing Chun. I felt that the sensitivity drills and training surprisingly improved my ground game. I was able to better feel and focus on the muscle twitches and preemptive movements of my opponent during rolls. Although it wasn't a silver bullet, I do believe that it was a significant improvement for me.
exactly, like Ranton said I feel that Wing Chun is a very useful SUPPLEMENTARY martial arts style to help improve your fighting skills, I just wouldnt recommend it as someone's only style to practice. Plenty of martial arts have incredibly beneficial training tools or techniques, thats why its very useful to study a variety of styles and find the techniques and skills that work the best for you and incorporate all of them together, instead of strictly sticking to one thing
Nice
The most useful martial art I practiced was old school boxing. It was a REAL old school boxing. Warmup was 1-2 hours. Technique was ~30 min and sparing was ~10-20 min. Shadow boxing was ~30 min. Each session was 2.5-4 hours long.
Just so u guys know, 10 min of full resistance sparring is A LOT. And the reason most of our time spent 'warming-up' was because the most important thing in fighting is PHYSICAL CONDITIONING. Yes, MORE than technique.
Some examples from our ~2 hours warmup:
basketball, sand-ball ball passing, tennis ball vs the wall (throw with one hand into the wall, catch with the other, smaller balls which i don't know how to write their type- for more advanced students), jumping rope (gets ur pulse to 170+ in less than 5 seconds EASILY if u actually know how to jump, lots of running and jumping.
We were a small group of about 10 people. After a session I was soaked to the bone, and the smell of my own sweat was so strong, it was even revolting for myself LMAO. Great times, 10/10 would go back to those times again if I could.
For context, the few times I had to fight, I was extremely scared I would get to legal troubles, as in 2 of those times the other dude was knocked unconscious\barley conscious, on asphalt. Another very important point, hands were not made to throw such strong punches as you learn how to throw in classical boxing. I am very serious, if you hit the wrong body part, with the wrong amount of force, you WILL hurt your own hand, and can DEFINITELY break it, and suffer an irreversible damage to your finger dexterity.
Avoid violence, it's not worth it.
Boxing has always stood out to me as by far a top 5 practical martial art.
can confirm both pinkies fracked and hands are mangled, dont hit people with out protection!! or you mess up your hands! Or better yet avoid fighting people over stupid shit! LOL!
man, preach.....10 minutes of straight up sparring is a torture test in the ring
Loved the last sentence.
Seems like very intense training. How many times a week and was it just a hobby or something more serious?
I’m glad my Wing Chun school didn’t advertise at all. LMAO Literally just a bunch of kung fu enthusiasts in a warehouse storage/office district that opens after work and we’d practice Hung Gar Nei Kung, Tai Chi, Choy Lay Fut, and Wing Chun. No nonsense about authenticity or school politics. 🥰
Also the only “advertisement” they did was a morning hour long exercise program for ppl to warm up their bodies like chi kung. No word of martial arts at all. I only found out by word or mouth from my mom who heard the name which had Wing Chun in it. hahahah
Update: school closed down a couple years ago and then opened back up but idk what happened after that. It’s been a while 😭.
Name is Đông Phương Hội Vịnh Xuân Quyền - Far East Association Wing Chun Kuen
i meant usually low profile schools don't really need advertise, you just have to understand your ability, not show off. i've seen many kungfu schools promote alot just for the sake of money.
Kinda same here, we have two Sifu in our school, we have Do-in, Qigong, Groundfight, also physical conditioning (Kettlebell), also we learn the usage of staff (the six and half pole only used by those who are experienced, others learn easier northern shaolin forms with smaller length staff), we do sparring, not just chi sao. The teachers really self-defense oriented, and they are always open about what should do, and do not in self defense, how not to get into a fight (so kinda psychology thing), also they borrowed elements from Jeet Kune Do, BJJ, and street fight (not much but there are way effective self defense methods there so they applied them)...In my opinion Wing Chun works, but you need the sparring, to really learn the pak sau and bong sau and the others, also you need physical condition, wing chun ha a lot of tool where you use the attackers force, but if you are in danger a good palm strike can save you life...after that if you have the upper hand you run...
Choy li fut is lethal. Good stuff
Sounds like a fantastic school.
Bruce Lee was the perfect example of "take what is useful, get rid of what is useless" when creating his own form of self defence.
Jeet kune do
Bruce Lee had HUGE respect for his master Ip Man, and two of Ip Man's students (William Cheung and Wong Shun Leung: Bruce's Si-Hings in Wing Chun). Bruce also told his students that he considered his senior (Si-Hing) William Cheung, to be the best street fighter he'd ever seen. Dan Inosanto admitted so in the Preface of the book 'Bil Jee - The Art of Thrusting Fingers' by William Cheung. Let that sink in. :)
@@sifudominiqueemond6292 You know, knowing a martial art and being a good street fighter are kinda two different things. I mean, it's barely ever a 1 v 1 situation, at some point beer bottles or other scrap at hand comes into play and it usually devolves into a straight up messy brawl in a matter of 10-20 seconds and if you ever fall down your side is probably lost. Also, nobody is immune to being hit from a blind spot.
I agree. But it still doesn't change what Bruce thought of these people. :)
@@sifudominiqueemond6292 I'm guessing you are William cheung lineage or under him in some form or shape correct?
What a wonderfully candid perspective!
I love how he talks about self deftin true life threatening situations. I've been in a few (none combative, broken limbs in wilderness scenario) and I can tell you it takes a minute or thirty to come to grips with what is happening and how you can try to survive it. I fell down a cliff in the middle of a new moon night. On the way down jagged rocks stabbed me through the ribs. I landed in shallow water in an a blackberry patch, and when I hit the ground my head was launched backwards into the clifface behind me. I was bleeding and disoriented and every move I tried just dug blackthorns into me. I fought my way out of it, rather stupidly climbed a thirty foot sheer cliff face, and wandered for hours trying to find were I was. I finally caught sight of a ruined building below me and knew I could get cell signal there. Just one of my experiences and I can tell you training does not help much when injury shock and panic start to take over. If I were in unfamiliar territory I doubt my survival.
😨That was a hard time !
That description of event is sh1t scary. Kudos to you for pulling yourself out of that.
I studied many martial arts. Including Wing Chun off and on for 6 years. Last July I started boxing. As a kid and adult I loved watching boxing. Studying it made me have a whole new respect. You just don't know how hard it is! Boxing has definitely improved my fighting ability, and has given me a much greater defense than any martial art has. Not to mention the conditioning and realism. Getting in the ring and sparring with the coaches was a major eye opener!
Lack of sparring is always the first indicator that you're in a McDojo instead of a real martial arts club. I've been to a Tae Kwon Do club that didn't do sparring when I was younger and the teacher had this huge beer belly. They tended to focus on breaking thin wood planks above anything else to impress the parents and newcomers. A real shit show. Quit after 2 months of that bullshit, went to a better club that did physical conditioning and sparring olympic style. Almost 15 years later I have a drawer full of golden medals from international competitions and I've learned multiple martial arts.
i did box for a while and recently got into wing chun . i felt wing chun has improved my boxing with out a doubt .
@@rudyleon7321 awesome! I absolutely love Wing Chun. It's a beautiful and addicting art. It helped my hand speed, reaction time and short range power. As well as relaxation and being balanced using my left hand almost as good as my right hand. I plan to go back one day. I have an incredible Sifu. He is an amazing martial artist and human being and almost like a Father to me.
That's pretty interesting - I practiced Kickboxing for about 6 years and Wing Chun for about 1 year but my experience was exactly the other way round. I felt like Kickboxing was of course a very strong fighting style but you're extremely dependent on your physical stature - during training I experienced on a regular basis that taller ppl with an equal amount of training just have an insane advantage what frustrated me a lot (I'm barely 1,80m). Wing Chun on the other hand gave me the feeling that it is way more important to train your technique properly and focus on using the right form at the right time. I can't say that I'm really able to fight with Wing chun after practicing it only for 1 year but that's my take on the debate.
@@bluefox9436 I can't stress enough trying your Wing Chun against other styles. I learned the hard way that it's almost impossible to Pak Sau a really fast jab!
Dude, you should really do a video on the Chinese MMA fighter that destroys fake masters, he’s so interesting
he did i think
He mentioned Xu in one of the fake martial arts video and is interested to do a full video on it. It could be a project in making
@@matthew-2484 the worst that his situation got was getting fined and banned from public transportation by some court, it’s all over now and he’s a mini celebrity in China. He’s subtly indicated many times that he’s a dissident and a liberal. He has hung out with multiple media personalities that are open liberals.
He beat up some frauds, sure authorities got annoyed cause he was stirring shit up. After all, organizing public duels is illegal.
I’m glad he did what he did, I am annoyed that now people think the CPC fetishizes Kung Fu, could not be more false, politicians don’t give a shit about martial arts.
he's the fake
and you're the dummy.
super high quality presentation mate.
I hope you have more video-essay style content like this.
done with care,love and respect! more power to you brother!
As Bob Jones from Aus used to say 'get to reality'.
respect
I did wing chun for about 13 months. As I had no real experience of other martial arts I can say wing chun has helped me a lot both in my physique but also my ability to fight ( compared to nothing ofc). My school was amazing. We had practice every day (mon-friday) for about 2.5 hours. My sifu was well trained and I knew for a fact he had spent about 5 years in china learning too so he was not taught just in my country. Anyway, the training regime was tough and we had sparring sessions at least twice a week, sometimes even 4. He would also bring athletes from other martial arts to discuss their style and what we could have done to defend against certain moves using wing chun with showcases and some practice too. My sifu had done other styles too so he never claimed wing chun is the god of martial arts or anything and he always said if you can avoid a battle, always do it and not just for your own safety but the safety of others and the environment too. You don't want to go destroy property around you or the day of fellow customers in a shopping centre for example. We were to use it only as our last resort if we could not do anything else. I am sad I had to move town for work. Never had the time nor the trust to go to another school since then, I think there are teachers who are charlatans and promote violence. That said, I might start looking from 2024 as I really miss the training.
Did your sifu have to defeat all the others before opening his martial arts school?
@@userunknown1578Lmao 😂
what a experience! godspeed to you and hte best of lucks finding your right school
@@marcoosorio3705 thx a lot. I rly wish that too
Dude, my Wing Chun trainer was short & covered in bruises & was missing teeth....
Wing Chun is about speed & surprised attacks.
It's supposed to give advantage to a woman who is attacked by a bigger man.
She supposed to swing & hopefully break the nose of the attacker & get away.
It's offensive martial arts.
It's not about the power.
It's about the speed & confusing & disorienting the attacker.
Not only is the Wing Chun in Ip Man Choreographed, giving an unrealistic idea of it's effectiveness the fact that it's choreography is devised to have Donnie Yen be the performer pushes that illusion even further. Because even compared to other martial arts actors and real fighters, Donnie Yen's is ridiculously charismatic and his hand and foot speed is just obscenely fast. All action choreography is meant to make the hero's style look effective, but Donnie Yen is the master of selling that conceit. I mean, look at the new John Wick movie; Donnie is so good at moving on screen (even now that he's getting old and isn't as quick and dynamic as he used to be) that he can almost make the `blind assassin' trope feel believable, not just with swords but even when they're all using guns!
TLDR: Remember that whoever you are you are not Donnie Yen, the actor, let alone the fictionalized version of Ip Man that Donnie Yen portrays.
Honestly you're right - I've done Muay Thai - BJJ - Kick boxing. Going fill tilt on a Wing chun proctor they don't hold a candle. The moves they lean go out the window once the kicks - punches and take downs head their way.
Thats the thing. Donnie yen could make it work because he is crazy skilled martial artist. Anyone else who isnt master level and skilled in multiple styles could never make it work.
@@lastninjaitachi the thing is, what you just said is insanely idiotic.
@@delacroixii not really. Your commenting on a video of a guy who is legit a serious martial artist who is saying the same thing.
Being a student of Wing Chun nearly 40 years ago, the presentation of it in this film series is completely unrealistic. Choreographed is not the word I would use. Fake would be my term. And I have found the art to be very effective. EDIT: The modern instruction of Wing Chun is NOT Wing Chun. I dont know what it actually is, but my instruction included grappling, kicks and punches in concert with evasion and redirection. EDIT@: Even tho I consider it fake, I did enjoy the show. Much the same way I know Avengers is fake. A well told story is always better than a boring one. Fake or not.
Excellent, excellent advice, bravo!
12:10 I just came across your video and really enjoyed it. Thanks for your honest and reality based perspective! Very refreshing. I’ve be a student of traditional Okinawan Karate for about 50 years (Uechi-Ryu), and simply for the reason that it’s the only form of exercise that ever captured my imagination. I simply love training in it. And while there are numerous benefits in narrow and deep training in this discipline, there is no better way to keep oneself safe than understanding how to simply avoid physical altercation in the first place.
I’ve been fascinated by Wing Chun from the Ip Man movies as well, and have considered learning more about it. Thanks so much for this commentary! Was excellent and really helpful.
I did Wing Chun for about 3 years and always really enjoyed it i was doing more as a way to socialise and keep in shape, the fact that it was martial arts or training how to fight wasn't what brought me in personally. I trained under Master Frank Roach in the UK who trained in china in his 20s then came back to the UK to teach. The big take away from doing it was fight avoidance. "Theres no point getting stabbed over a phone" as he put it. I learnt alot of important life lessons that ive really benefitted from in my life and i dont regret practising at all and would highly recommend to anyone interested in martial arts to give wing chun a try themselves before forming too strong an opinion. Just to also clarify Wing Chun isnt the only martial art ive practised, i also have 2 year experience in Karate and dabbled in boxing a few times.
The most important lesson that permeates across the movies I've seen is that it's not the martial art, it's the martial artist that matters.
🤯
The way you train also matters. And some techniques just don't work in real life.
And that is BS the martial art does matter, doesn't matter how "good" you are at Aikido, BJJ is more efficient and will always prevail.
@@ramonfernandomirandanoguei365 Yeah.... no
Fact I don't understand is that ip man could have using southern style. Instead he uses WING CHUN and PROCLAIMS that style doesn't matter. For it is IIIIIII the wing chunner who determines style is not important!!
I hardly ever comment on videos. My attention span is awful and I usually click away. I am hungover as I type this, but I have sat here and watched this video in it's entirety. The way you speak is so engaging and not once was I even distracted by something else. Keep doing what you're doing man, you have a real talent for speaking!
Great video,thanks
I spent 10 years in wing chun starting before the movies came out. I was fortunate the school I was at was very pragmatic, even having us spend time on ground game with jiu jitsu and encouraging us to learn and integrate ideas from other schools once we hit the mid levels. I found it to be an excellent first art to build a foundational understanding of fighting and encourage anyone to take it up, but the best self-defense will always be the following:
1) a cool head never looking for a fight
2) good situational awareness
3) good negotiation skills
4) good athletic footwear
5) a concealed handgun
During the English dub, I felt physical pain.
I can tell the german dub is about 1 to 2 leagues better. I also often have the problem with eng dub that it's just too quiet.
The original with English subtitles is universes better. That's how I watched it, anyway.
@@seijikun791 That's how I watch every movie nowadays. I just can't stand the sub-par voice acting done by dubbers 99% of the time. Even if they do their best, the mismatch between voice and lip movements is so obvious that it ruins the immersion.
@@bytefu The only dubs that do justice to originals are the ones in anime, imo. And even then, it really depends on what you watch.
The trouble is wing chun is being marketed as a self DEFENCE, when in fact it is an attacking art. There are different types of people in this world. Some people are scarred of being attacked, but there is another kind who enjoy fighting. People who go to learn self defence have already lost, as to truly defend yourself you must learn how to attack. But for those who enjoy fighting wing chun is like toolbox. It helps you understand angles and lines of attack. But it requires a certain mindset to work. 99% of people dont have that mindset and no amount of training will ever enable them to overcome an opponent, whos mindset is to do them harm. For 1% its a deadly art, but for the rest its a waste of money. Their best defence would be to work on their confidence and awareness, and avoid fights altogether.
@johnwheeler3019 well said
"People who go to learn self defence have already lost, as to truly defend yourself you must learn how to attack."
That´s not true at all, Avoiding a phyiscal conflict is always better than to attack. Even if you attack and win you can hurt yourself. If you run away or simply avoid and de-escalate a sitution you`ll always be superior to any martial art. But sometimes if you are left with no other choice than to fight then sure.
@@narudan you're exactly the kind of person I'm talking about.
@@johnwheeler3019 The type of person who doesn`t want to attack someone? sure i`m that. A knife is drawn quicker than any "mindset" you`d think you have to make you able to defend yourself from someone meaning to do you harm. If you think you can defend yourself from someone like that just because you are trained in a martial art i wish you good luck in your delusions and hopefully you never end up in a situation like that.
I didn't even mention knives, maybe it's you who is delusional
Your video is The Best Fighting Info, Ever!!!!!! THANKS SIFi❤
I think it is also worth mentioning that the whole point of Wing Chun (and most other styles of Chinese martial arts) is to eventually be able to fight with the designated weapons. In the case of Wing Chun, the designated weapon is the dual knives. The iconic cyclic punches are more like cyclic stabs and this is also why traditional Wing Chun guard stance is at chest level instead of being at head level (there's not much to stab if you put your guard at head level). In other words, unlike MMAs, Kung Fu is not designed for fights in round cages. Also, since the mass introduction of firearms in modern China, the need for practicing fighting with melee weapons has gradually decreased, meaning that modern day Kung Fu is most likely a watered down version of the traditional Kung Fu, which was used to kill people. So to summarize, the punching and kicking that you see from modern Kung Fu are nothing but the training wheels that are supposed to eventually come off, and not moves are designed to be thrown around in a MMA fighting cage. Also, given that people are no longer really fighting with swords and spears, Kung Fu has been watered down over the years and has become more like a set of physical exercises rather than a set of killing moves for real fights.
Well, no wonder in Ip Man 3 the fights Donnie's "Ip Man" had with the other Wing Chun master flowed seamlessly into dual (short) blades as if wielding them was integral to the martial art, although ofc that's also excellent choreography at work.
>Wing Chun, the designated weapon is the dual knives
That make it sounds worse, not better. Wing Chun stance is foot forward without defending your bottom half, when you use something that short range as knives, it's so open to you getting sliced in the leg by a weapon longer than 2 centimeter, and spear is completely deadly against this shit.
>there's not much to stab if you put your guard at head level
There's a fuck lot to stab if you put your guard at head level, including but not limited to: foot, knee, thighs, stomach, liver, penis etc. The entire bottom half is free for all against wing chun practicioners, esp when you fucking step your foot forward. Actual dual knives wielder drop their stance down and have their foot behind them so they can guard their entire body with their knives and lunge forward for more reach against higher ranged weapons, like say... a sword
One stupid argument people made is wing chun is designed for on boats combat hence the weird foot forward stance. Newsflash, people dont fight on top of small boats, they shoot arrow from afar and try to sink other people boats. See the Bach Dang battle where the Mongol-Chinese force got completely sunk without being able to fight back. Because their "Wing Chun" dont actually prepared them for a real naval battle.
hey great insight dude, i didn't know this
Baji from the North descends from Ming dynasty spearmen, and the style builds up to spear - but also, I suspect a lot of it comes down to 'soldier came back to hometown, got beaten up by local drunk, got real pissed and decided to figure out how to make his weapons style useful enough to beat up the local drunk and a lot of fighting ideas directly translate anyways'. Wing Chun may be similar - might be build up to butterfly swords; might be the other way around; might be both.
These videos are always incredible to me. Not only are they informative and entertaining (both as a movie review and as a light dissection of martial arts) but they provide an interesting lens into the Ranton behind the Game Review persona. Thanks for sharing your insights, Rantoni.
I’ve watched your videos before, and it was THIS one that got me to sub! Wish more people had this take, everyone should watch this
Serious Ranton is like a completely different person from Rantoni-Pepperoni we get in game reviews .. when you see him you know he deeply cares about the subject of the video, excellent video as usually and very well-made points.
Lmao
You are a true scholastic warrior who has understood, embraced and applied the essence of martial arts and self cultivation. Keep up the incredible work.😊
Great post! Thanks!
Would definitely love to see more of these types of videos
I started doing wing chun when I was around 17 or 18, and did it for about 3 or 4 years, and I absolutely loved it, we actually did quite a bit of sparring and my Sifu was big on learning the philosophy and applying it to life and not just fighting, but also being very practical while fighting as well, I’d would absolutely go back if I had the chance, also some of those exercises/workouts we did were pretty unique and have stayed with me till this day
K.
Is Wing Chun training for all ages ?
@@moustachio334 What is the point in saying anything if this is all you have to say?
I enjoy how you encourage practitioners to expose themselves to other styles. I do wish you would have touched on how we can see the successful points of the philosophy of Win Chun, as well as the tactical concepts, and I believe investigation into the successes of other styles will eventually lead one to understand the strengths and weaknesses of one's own. Great video!
Excellent commentary! Every bit of it is 100 percent on the nose!
Talking about "don't let anyone argue you out of your own personal enjoyment of something" is just the best advice! Thank you!
Very accurate and honest review that many people need to hear. Against the untrained fighter it can be of some advantage, but against a skilled fighter in a host of other forms of fighting and self-defense it's nothing like the movies. My Sensei once told me the best fight is the one that never takes place. 🙏🏻
Interestingly enough a fight between different styles does not decide which style is best. the Winner of a fight simply is "a superior fighter". be it in better shape,, or better trained, or at the very least is better at his style than the opponent was of his style. Boxers refer to "a glass jaw". did you know there is the opposite of that. " head as hard as a rock". so there are those you can drop with out much effort and those that you can hit with full force, on the money , perfect mechanics and the turn their head back to you and say" is that all you got". .. NOW that is intimidating. LOL
"the best fight is the one that never takes place." What a ridiculous extrapolation of "best way to avoid punch, no be there" from Karate Kid II, meaning get out of the way, not avoid the fight. (though "prevent having to fight" was Miyagi's main message) According to that logic, the best sex is that which never takes place.
@@donferoce5652 sex hurts you? lmao
As you pointed out, nothing wrong doing Wing Chun or any other physical training. The mindset and the goal behind matters. I learned Karate and Tae Kwon Do and from my experience, it works fine with an opponent who is doing the same stuff. On the street, very rarely I had a profit from my knowledge.
You said it perfectly. when basic insticts like fear kicks in, the world looks completely different. And it's normal as under training conditions these circiumstances don't get applied and of course shouldn't.
I think boxing and jujitsu are the 2 arts that actually work in the real world.
Half of learning to fight is adrenaline control.
This is why we train so we don't have to think when your body knows what to do fear aside you will protect yourself. As a survivor of some brutal beat downs I thank my teachers for showing me how to survive.
Half true, I think when it comes to unarmed combat, military combat comes first (which yes, use boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, etc.) but u gotta take into account you can gouge people’s skin and eyes as well as bite off flesh from each other in true unarmed combat. Besides, this “true unarmed combat” isn’t even real world combat because of so many other factors. But yeah, boxing and bjj would definitely help you better in a real world situation than wing chun
You should pressure test it if your training for survival. For me there is levels of pressure. Thats what keeps you level headed.
Great video. respect.
I love seeing this video and hearing your input and thoughts. I couldn’t agree more, for karate/martial arts as a whole. There are many practices in my local area, mainly taekwondo dojos That don’t spare at all. Blows my minds.
Ranton I love watching your videos about Martial Arts. There’s no bias and you always say the pros and cons. Gives people like me who aren’t trained whatsoever an insight into the fighting world 👌🏻
Whoa man you really decided to practice your kicks on the bee tree.
Thanks for your honesty, it's helped me make a decision regarding my own training. I've incorporated some very basic Wing Chun concepts into my other systems and it's been quite helpful for conserving my endurance, counter-attacks, and even avoiding getting locked up in grapples, but I found out very quickly that it did nothing except stall the tide when I faced bigger opponents (I'm 6'1 lol). A supplementary implementation with stress testing is definitely a better approach than faith in any one system. Tools in the box, not the toolbox.
Superb video .
I am 64 years old, I began training in Boxing at 12 and at 15 I found a Wing chun class that impressed me to no end. I had attempted to join a Shaolin school located at 34ths street Braoday in Manhattan, but they did not spar at all, Pretty moves, but coming from a boxing back ground, it sucked. However the Wing chun school I joined, with Sifu Duncan Leung, had us sparring on day 1!They especially liked me because of my boxing background. To this day I coach boxing and use many wing chun principles. In a nut shell, I don't care what TMA you practice, if you don't spar, you will never make it work. After my Sifu left the states, every Wing chun school (in fact all Kung fu and Karate) I visited were focused on uniforms and Kata. I was used to punching and getting punched. So I dropped out of martial arts and continued boxing. I still have my wooden dummy and practice wing chun forms. what I have learned is that not every technique is effective every time. Real fighting is chaotic. Also, I feel that Wing chun is more of a grappling art rather than striking, Chi sao works great for me in boxing as I tie up an opponent, and in grappling, the unconventional attacks throw people off, but no technique works great ALL the time. 50 % skill, 50 % luck, 100 % circumstance. Thats real
I love how you can take the no BS approach to martial arts. Appreciate it for what it is, and when it can help, but also the reality of it’s effective in real life. Amazing.
So funny to see the chaotic madness in him during game reviews... And then, there are these videos. Pure wisdom and respect. I love it.
Some of the best info i have heard in 50yrs in the arts thx
This is a great video full of good advice, 100% true! Hopefully, it will reach and help a lot of people who need orientation in the martial arts world.
Yes! Absolutely love your take on this. As a Wing Chun practitioner myself for many many years, what I can tell is that Wing Chun itself is great when sparring or even fighting people that don't know much about fighting. When I try to use it during training at a martial arts gym such as kickboxing or muay Thai, I have much greater difficulty haha.
The concepts are definitely sound though! Just tough to apply in modern combat I'd say.
When my son was studying JKD, i appreaciated the Sifu never bad mouthed any other style or school. He was also clear to the students that, no matter how good you are, a fight will hurt you.
I love how you speak truth and don’t care what anyone thinks. I fully agree with everything you’ve pointed out. Keep the Amazon content coming. Just got yourself a new subscriber!
Really enjoyed the video. Thank you. :)
USKBA kickboxer, I did study Wing Chun for a dedicated year. Every point made by this man is SPOT ON.
Actually did incorporate some techniques in the ring, but only occasionally- and with some success. This channel is awesome, and I am SUBSCRIBED!!!!
id love to see more of just reviewing classic kung fu movies and having your thoughts on opinions on them (even comedy ones like kung fu hustle which is secretly my favorite)
Very intresring and usefull video i totally agree
I admire your honesty.
I encountered this style at a very impressionable age, and i had a lot of resistance to it in the beginning, over time i learned many things that could be considered wing chun, but it was never pressure tested until i took myself out of the school and had to encounter other systems. I found that there WERE useful methods and mindsets in wing chun, especially in the trapping clinch and elbow department, but i had to actually spar to figure that out on my own after separating and reflecting. It was never ever going to come up inside the classes, nobody was ever going to get hurt and learn the more hard earned valuable lessons.
as a practitioner of historial european martial arts, primarily with italian style rapier (hoping to look into forms of longsword and spanish rapier one day), the contrast between eastern martial arts and european is pretty wild. i can't quite phrase how strange i find it, but it just IS strange when it comes to how these ways of fighting are approached in both learning and application
Gracias, lo necesitaba 😢
Brother, well done. You’d make a great teacher or instructor. Right mindset, respect and humble… well played sir, well played
I've recently played Sifu and watched Ip man and so had gotten inspired to try a martial art as a method for fitness and focus. This was great insight so I feel prepared for what I'd be getting myself in for and what it's good for and definitely not good for (I hadn't really factored in using it for self defense so it's good to know I wasn't set on that!) There's a school nearby that teaches Wing Chun so i'm planning to visit it in the coming weeks. Thanks very much :D
5:30 after 5 years of thai boxing, 2 years of wing chun helped me understand better what i was actually doing, just like wushu helped me in the coordination and flexibility of my kicks. I then tryed out many other styles of fighting. It almost feels like i was somehow disabled before i startet doing more than one martial art XD. And then i realised that i was subconsciously finding my own style of doing stuff. Its like a child that learns to walk or speak. Its walking and talking sure, but its not like adults walk and talk.
Great video!
Ah man. Thanks for that review. Loved your games reviews and I started learning Wing Chun this year mainly as a fitness tool. When I was starting to wonder if that would actually be useful in a real fight I immediately went to boxing and Muay Tai. You kinda confirm all of this. Still, I never faught a single fight in my entire life and it'll probably stay like that so whatever :) Just enjoy what you train!
Finally a very good traditional kung-fu fighter with a real experience in chinese traditions that speak clearly about this beautiful martial art destroyed by business and ignorance, thank you!
I made a video 2 years ago where I say many things according to your words...and I fight every day to promote a more honest and concrete practice.
I will also share your video on my Facebook page.
Thank you very much.
Good luck 🍀🙏
12 minutes of truth on point. For real: I couldn't agree more !!!
Thanks for this information. I studied this once a long time ago, and must say, In mixed martial arts sparring, I've incorporated it at certain points, but I Winged, then Stunned. LOL. Great video, as usual! Thanks again, bro.
Ich guck deine Videos gern, nicht nur wegen der Infos zu Kampfsport/Kampkunst, auch wegen deinem guten English. Ich kann sagen: Ich lerne jedes mal was bei dir! EHRE, Hut ab, Gefällt mir sehr gut!!!
I also thoroughly enjoyed the Ip Man movies -- and appreciated your commentary ... I definitely agree with your attitude about good vs bad behavior (reminds me of the Cobra Kai school from the original Karate Kid movie). I've learned (dabbled in) several martial arts. Your final comments are excellent -- pursue what you enjoy doing -- because you enjoy it, not because of anyone else's opinion of it, or you 😎👍
I practiced Wing Chun for about 3 years or so during my teenage years but my master had us do sparring and learn things from other styles as well:
We did a bit of Shaolin for resistance and stretching, Sanda for kicking Qina for grappling I think it was, Muay Thai, breathing techniques, etc and we'd gather in a circle and fight until one of us got knocked to the floor.
It was around 9 or 10 years ago but I feel I learnt a lot and I value, respect and wanna keep learning Wing Chun in the future, not thinking it is the best in itself but with a mix what it does lack.
0888
Cheers and respect Ranton 😊
You are very wise, I like your videos alot I've watched 4 today
Totally appreciate your honesty in a world of lies and fantasies aimed at exploiting people.
Thanks for the video. I'm surprised not enough people talk about this. Like, I watch videos about martial arts from time to time, and almost no one criticizes wing chun. Even if it's an overly critical channel about martial arts, they often go like "well, we don't know all secrets of this martial art founded by an actor, so I guess it's really strong and powerful and probably works." Like, dude.
Really?! I feel that Wing Chun is one of if not the most hated and frowned upon martial arts. Period.
Well done. U spoke well. Thanks for the honesty in your opinion, but true.
His honesty. ahhh. It caused me to subscribe immediately.
Excellent cometary well-presented points it's good to hear someone who knows what they are talking about and observe factual tried and tested application in both traditional martial arts and real combat certainly allows the practitioner to understand the fundamental basic in the art off fighting. Keep up the good posting looking forward to more of your views.
As a kyokushin karateka, what I believe is the greatest benefit is the growing confidence, so can keep calm and then you can be able to detect, avoid and/or deescalate a dangerous situation. Obviously being able to take a hit if necessary is a plus.
Great video! 🙏🏾
You are a breath of fresh air, thank you, for keeping it real :)
6:47 Reminds me of the old quote by funnily enough a man who appears in this video Mike Tyson when asked if he was worried about his upcoming fight against Evander Holyfield.
"Everyone Has a Plan Until They Get Punched in the Mouth"
No truer words have been spoken.
I've always viewed most Kung Fu films almost like modern super hero films and I've loved and been obsessed for years. I don't delude myself into thinking it's practical. Also Dragon Tiger Gate is a hilarious over the top awesome action flick of Donnie's. I'll never not enjoy watching him work.
Edited for grammar.
great video!
Now this was a great video, with good advise.
I started training wing chun with 12 and did so for 4 years. The classes I went to where hardly a martial arts class. They where seriously informative courses. We had a really nice trainer who sometimes took us to get Ice cream. On the way she would ask us questions, how we would react, if a stranger strated talking to us. Where would we stand in relation to a car if they asked us to come closer? In the front ofcourse! If you approach them from behind, they can easily open the door and grab you. She always emphisized, that if we have a funny feeling walking down a street, change the roadside, go a different way. If you are in a fight and you see a potential escape route, use it! Nothing else matters. If you see knives? Run! Always scream and try to make a scene when you are in such a situation.
We had drills, where one was lying on the ground and you had to prevent a group of people from coming close to you. We had pads and all that and actually tried really hard to pounce on the person lying on the ground.
In between there where obviously form drills. We all knew this is not how you are supposed to fight in a fight. They where just there to generally train your body awareness.
For me as a child and teen it helped me a lot to feel safer. I was bullied in school and just felt unsave. I never had to get in a real fight and I hope to keep it that way: I really feel like it has made me more aware of my surroundings and being able to deascalete situations or just leaving before they happen.
The courses I went to really tried to make an effort to make kids more aware.