You speak the truth. Got my black belt when I was 15, and left TKD after. Trained mostly on my own for 10+ years. Now that I've studied many arts since then, I see how to make certain TKD movements way, away more effective.
@@inside_fightingstrongly disagree about Taekwondo does not work in self defence. The reason being a florist in Greece (woman) Taekwondo black belt (who was not a mma fighter) took on four men armed knives and beat them. If you can read Greek it is in the papers about 12yrs old
The interesting thing is that in the forms of Kukki (national) Taekwondo (which is the actual name of the style people tend to call WTF Taekwondo), there are more arm techniques than leg-techniques. In the complete Kukkiwon curriculum(as defined in the Kukkiwon Textbook), the self-defense curriculum encourages high guard, boxing style punches and body movement, knees, elbows, low kicks, takedowns and even limited groundwork and joint locks, and even modern training methods and more complete sparring. The problem is that 95% of what people are spending time on in Kukki Taekwondo clubs, is training for WT(F) style competition, since winning competition brings prestige to the school, and in the process they effectively ignore the rest of the system. If people had spent more time training the complete system, Kukki Taekwondo would NOT have had a reputation as such an incomplete martial art. Here's a demo (with high movie-fu factor) by the Kukkiwon of the modern Kukki Taekwondo self-defense curriculum, and while it is obiously made to look like an action movie, every technique that is shown in the demo is in the actual Kukki Taekwondo system, including the head punches, low kicks, takedowns, joint locks and weapon techniques: th-cam.com/video/Gi1kqKIf4hk/w-d-xo.html
I hold a first dan black in tae kwon do. It's a mere supplement for my other styles, as tkd focuses on kcks. The hip twist conditioning to make kicks snap is something I took from it. My graduation to black was breaking a 2x4 lumber complete with corners, with an "axe" kick, as my undefeated Korean national champion instructor calls it. I learned the old school, and man, I've been turning side bashed in the diaphragm so many times, which ended with me curled up like a child on the ground unable to breath. In tournaments, I've fractured my jaw and clavicle, but it also won me the national championship inspite of the injuries. Old school tkd, is legit. My instructor fought off 8 guys while he was drunk and they were all sent to the hospital. His name was Kyu Sang Han.
I earned a black belt in TKD also and my instructor learned under Grandmaster Chung Kee Tae. I feel like they also came from a more old-school TKD background as they were very concerned with practical application. There were also kickboxing and Muay Thai classes at my school so I eventually transitioned to that. Whenever I went to a new Muay Thai school, they were always impressed with the variety and power of my kicks. It's funny because TKD is typically more of a snapping kick while Muay Thai is a follow-through power kick, but I think the hip flexibility I had gained in TKD translated very well to the power Muay Thai kicks. Anyway, I think it is generally good to learn multiple Martial Arts and styles and I don't regret learning TKD.
@@kaguth I agree. I learned some Muay Thai when I was studying Jeet Kun Do. TKD added a lot to my precision and more target options when the opportunity came up.
@kaguth That's interesting. You're really lucky to have trained in old-school taekwondo. When I look at footage of old school taekwondo, its fascinating to see how much power their kicks had. Since you've trained in both Muay thai and old school taekwondo, which style would you say has the more damaging front kicks ?
@@King75102 That’s an interesting and hard question, and it has been a few decades since I’ve trained seriously. TKD has a several different options for the front kick, but assuming it’s a rear leg front kick similar to a teep I would say that against another trained fighter they would be similar. I think the TKD front kick could be delivered with more power against a target. The reel is often used to push people back, but TKD uses it more as a precision power strike. I’ll use a teep at short range before a TKD front kick because the teep can still work if gets a little jammed up. The TKD front kick not so much. But my experience was in the 90s before Muay Thai became as big as it is. I would love to hear from others.
Out of curiosity you should look into ITF (International TaeKwon-Do Federation) style as well. It was originally developed for the South Korean army. They use both legs and hand techniques. Tremendous power as well
Ya, as a kid I stayed away from itf due to its lack of aggression and point style scoring. I dont care what the style is, the fight should NOT stop everytime a point is scored. WTF lacks punching but at least you get 3, 3-minute rounds.
@@Autonomous_617ITF sparring is only point stop until blue belt, after blue belt it is continuous and at black belt level sparring it's pretty much a full contact sport
I’ve never trained TKD but I had many many tkd buddies and I will say this: “The very best kickboxers that I’ve ever seen were TKD guys who have trained Boxing” I grew up in the Kenpo, Kajukenbo and Kung fu scene. Tkd guys have great cardio, great flexibility, great balance and they understand that attributes are just as important n maybe even more important then techniques. If you mix: 1. TKD 2. Boxing 3. Judo or Jiujitsu You will have a far more elite striking stylist then your average Thai boxer. And for street fights the tkd mindset of hitting and not getting hit versus Thai boxing attitude of absorb and fire back is far superior.
One of the first martial arts channels I ever saw here on TH-cam when I was new to martial arts and looking for kicking tips was (Kwonkicker), a Taekwondo/kickboxing guy who's trained in Thailand and even did a seminar on kicking at Tiger Muay Thai. His tutorials helped me tremendously when I was just starting out years ago, and showed how great Taekwondo and traditional martial arts kicks could be in in kickboxing/mma (Edit) I just checked cause I haven't looked at his stuff in ages, but he's still around. He just goes by the channel name (Micah Brock) now and still seems to have his old videos up 👍
From what I recall, he had the best instructional videos on Tae Kwon Do that I've came across. You know of other channels that are of that caliber of kicking?
Your channel is the best fight channel for me because you are so open-minded. You can always see the best in a martial art. In my opinion it also shows your combat experience. Many other channels talk about different styles, but if you say something positive about a style, I think you mean it. I don't see this on many other channels.
The thing with superficial martial arts fans, is they forget that these traditional martial arts were developed and used in ancient battles, including taekwondo. Sure, a lot were lost in time, but with a good school and teacher, they are definitely worth it.
the biggest problem with traditional martial arts isn't that the techniques don't work, it's the lack of realistic applications training... the more MMA evolves and advances the more you see it circling back to traditional techniques people used to scoff at... i think if it continues long enough eventually MMA will essentially come to embrace all the traditional techniques, just with better applications...
I hope TKD's explosive in-out footwork gets talked more like this video, especially good to translate that footwork skill to mma since TKD's far range is similar to mma.
wholeheartedly agree...i learned TKD, and use it immensely in terms of footwork + kicking...especially useful if you're someone who switches from orthodox to southpaw a lot (something TKD really focuses on)... the ability to change ranges quickly and deceptively is indeed phenomenal... using it in combination with muay thai/kenpo/hapkido/kickboxing makes it extremely useful...but as you said, only as a supplemental art...
@@inside_fighting thank you... i was just really stoked to see someone actually acknowledge its benefits... the other thing: hook kicks.. the TKD style snapping hook kick is absolutely terrifying when someone truly masters it... most MMA/kickboxing guys swing the leg up and hook the heel, but in TKD you essentially do a roundhouse kick past the person's head and use the momentum to snap your heel back... it's far sharper, snappier, faster, and more explosive... and even better, most people see it and think you just missed the roundhouse kick so they're not even looking for the hook... was my bread and butter kick until i tore my ACL
TKD was my first art, I was lucky to train and compete in the late 90's-early 2000's during what is now being called by some as the "Power Era". Which is the time the training footage you used is from. Man, we trained to kick *hard* moving in all directions, not just fast. One of the guidelines to score in competition at the time was having to physically displace our opponent with our kick ("trembling shock" was what they called it). Timing drills, reaction drills, incredible footwork -- which I still don't see utilized in other combat sports -- we trained and fought orthodox and southpaw...it was a time... My teachers motto was, "If we lose it won't be because we're out of shape." lol He also told us a back kick isn't a good back kick if it doesn't fold the heavy bag. The style is very different now, even for me and it's only been 20 something years. The electronic hogu really changed the game.
What a great video, thanks 😊. Started TKD in the 70s, trained in Korea in the 80s, got my 4th dan (WTF) in the 90s. Still training, and combine TKD skills with boxing and grappling. TKD done well is an elite movement and kicking system. THANKS to you I am going to adopt and use "Old School Taekwondo". 😊
Okay... So obviously I'm a subscriber and I appreciate your content as a curious/thoughtful student of martial arts. Sensei Seth has recently branched out and done Sumo, Savat, wing Chun etc...after doing a tier list he has since admitted was based in ignorance of most of the styles he critiqued. And I feel like that is what a lot of content creators do...I just saw a "keysi" doesn't work a day or 2 after your video on it...and basically came back to they don't do it in MMA (slightly more nuanced but you get the gist) Keep doing stuff like this.
Do people really hate TKD? But why? It's an Olympic sport. It has sparring. Seems like a great starting point for beginners to martial arts to me. I've always seen it as sorta like boxing except with kicks rather than punches. Is the hate because Muy Thai is seen as vastly superior to TKD as an overall martial art? The only art that I've seen get openly ridiculed all the time by everyone is Aikido and I wonder if some of that is because Steven Seagal is such an absurd clown show of a person.
3rd Dan 80s power TKD here. The footwork I have gained from TKD is the most useful thing about it. The extreme range of TKD kicks, is also surprising. You must understand the limitations, strengths and scope of any martial art. TKD, like many martial arts, is geared towards competition - where rules have been 'gamed' to simply win in a tournament. The same could be said of BJJ where pulling guard in a striking match would be bad, for example - hate away... (GJJ blue belt)
Taekwondo is the military equivalent of the USAF… we get shit on by everyone else, but everyone else wants to be in the USAF! 😉. I started in Karate ( very loosely taught) back when I was 7, got into plenty of street fights from 7 to 12… grew up in the projects, it’s what we did…. Started ITF TKD…” Kukkiwan “ back in 82 at the age of 12 until 17 while also wrestling and boxing throughout junior high and high school… I went off to serve in the military, and in my travels I learned a little bit of various arts, Muy Thai, Kickboxing, etc…. Now after a 35 year hiatus I just earned my 1st Dan Blackbelt in wait for it…. The same Dojang I got my start in wayyyy back in 1982! I have to say, this is a very well done video about TKD…🤙🏾👊🏾🙏🏽
That episode was from National Geographic with Bren Foster (an Australian martial artist / actor). Bren is also an exceptional athlete, and martial artist, so a lot of the power/accuracy does come down to the practitioner as usual. His kick was measured at 219km/h (136.08mph) with 1042kg (2297.22lb) of force behind it. What you can get from TKD is indeed the kicks, speed, and athleticism, as it's very dynamic. Also look into Hwa Rang Do.
@@inside_fightingYeah his technique is amazing and what's so unique is he is not planted like typical Dutch or Thai Kickboxers so his base foot pivots off the ground which would add more Speed and Power due to zero friction.
The one thing I didnt like about that specific show... was that they didnt really compare Apples to Apples. I believe the TKD kicker, was the only one of the artists, to take a single step with his kick. Obviously, if your whole body is stepping in... its gained forwards momentum, which is added to the power of your legs kick. They also didnt factor in the MASS of each of the fighters. I believe that they claimed that the Boxer had the strongest punches. However, the little Chinese dude, used like less than 6 inches of travel, and got like 600 PSI. If you weight a third of the boxers mass... and only use 6 inches of travel to generate that much power... you are probably actually much more powerful, in comparison (Pound for Pound). Not to mention, that same Chinese dude, could have also have thrown a Longfist punch instead... and compared that to the boxers strikes. And... they also could have tested each fighters Short Range power generation potentials, against each other. Nothing was what it Seemed, as far as Results goes... due to bad testing methods. According to Glen Levy... his first short range Fajin Hammerfist, actually broke the sensor that previously stood up to all of these artists strikes / kicks. They then installed a much stronger sensor... Likely the kind that are in Planes Black-Boxed, that can stand up to the forces of a Plane Crash. According to Glen, his strike created over 12,000 PSI. The show didnt want to reveal this to the Public masses... so instead, they said that his forces were the Equivalent of getting hit by a car moving at something like 60 mph (paraphrasing, as I cant recall the exact MPH / Wording). Not to discredit the dudes kick. Obviously, very good power on it.
Reading the comments - where have you guys been for the past 20 years of online people ignorantly dismissing Taekwondo without seeing its good sides? I swear the internet has been so ignorantly hostile... have you all been in hiding or something?
Steven Chee's Advanced TKD was my first love in martial arts, i also practiced Rhee TKD and another hybrid style called Yun Jung Do geared towards self defense. If you take a close look at the difference's in the TKD round kick and some turning kicks in it's different styles you will notice WTF tends to focus on speed with a slightly more vertical arc, where as your older styles tend to kick on more horizontal arc with a small jump with the foot on the supporting leg about an inch off the ground, it is very subtle but it's there and it helps generate a more powerful kick without loosing to much speed. Bren Foster also fought in Thailand having also trained in Muay Thai. And hats of to Joe Rogan for having two of the most powerful turning back kicks (it's not a spining back kick), and side kicks in the world. Yair Rodriguez is one of the most dynamic fighters in the UFC today.
"Never underestimate a system , because it's trendy or not". Thanks for this . Exactly what I've been thinking all the time. Trends come and go because we are on a shared martial arts journey together- we learn from each other, from other systems.. I started with taekwondo, aikido and still doing them along other arts. Taekwondo distance management and reflexes and aikido rolling are infact the only skills I have ever needed to protect myself.
OOHHH I cant wait to see your thoughts on taekwondo. I have a lot to say about how underappreciated and misapplied TKD is. I gotta say man, you are the best Martial arts youtuber I know of. Youre one of few people I have encountered who I can tell has managed to start attaining unity with the Spirit of Martial Arts. I see martial arts as a Principality, that encompasses many many aspects of human existence, when you go deeper into its study. The hard sciences(physics etc.), philosophy, psychology, sociology, History, Human Geography and Anthropology, etc all have a place in martial arts. Martial Arts is this complex deep thing, that most people only scratch the surface of. and the few who go deeper, often do so at the expense of other avenues of their life. Youre one of a few, who has been able to reach some level of "knowing" of that Spirit, and still be successful in other areas. Even more youve managed to make the study of that Spirit, something profitable for you. Props to you man, you rock. keep doing what you do.
If you'd seen the real deal "gold badge" (5th Dan and above) from 50 years ago, you'd be laughing at every other style. Those guys really COULD kill you with just their thumb
@@inside_fighting better believe it. The 6th Dan who was the judge for my 1'st degree black belt test, March of 1973, Was standing in front of a 2x4 makawira board, hinged to the floor, about 4 ft high, big oil spring keeping it erect. He was chatting with my 5th Dan instructor and striking the rope-wrapped board with casual little palm down knife hand strikes. The board was going all the way to the floor, very noisy He moved away, still talking to Moon, Hyo Kun. I said to my buddy, "Watch THIS and stepped into the board, striking it with all my power and a knife hand. I of course meant to make a lot of noise and impress everyone. It went one THIRD of the way to the floor! Sheesh! It was like watching Eddie Hall fold up skillets with his bare hands. Such things should NOT be possible for human beings to accomplish! have you seen the guy who could poke holes in coconuts with just his forefinger? That should not be possible, either. but he did it, repeatedly on video with Guiness there to witness/record it. th-cam.com/users/shortsdJIGE8CZKCA
pure boxing is not very useful in MMA. doesnt mean boxing is bad. TKD guys are the best kickers. Ive been in 10+ street fights. Always ends the same way. Hit and run KO. Even against 6 guys. Hit and run, KO them one at a time. no other martial art give that ability to stay at range and kill people with your body with a single move like TKD.
TKD offers distance as well as spacing and can give a fighter an edge as well as powerful kicks of course. it definitely adds to a fighters arsenal. There are a ton of TKD practitioners in MMA
I agree that the big issue with TKD is just finding a good school. I also think that if you're an MMA fighter looking to get some cool new skills, joining a class and spending 1 or 2 nights a week for years to learn it probably isn't the best way. Getting private instruction from someone good is probably more worth your time. Like the city kickboxing guys have with Van Roon in new Zealand. Worth looking into that guy.
I competed in WTF tournaments as a student and what I found was that with the electronic system, you have to fine tune your weight. The electronic scoring system only registered a point of you hit their pad with your foot pad (which only covers the top of your foot) with enough force to register on their system. The amount of force needed to score depends on the weight class you're in. I competed in -64, -68, and -74kg. Before the fight you test the system by doing some little kicks on the helmet and chest guard to make sure they are working. In my first year of uni I was at -64 and little taps would score points. In my 3rd year I competed again but I'd put on some size in the gym and was now walking around mid 70s. I didn't feel like cutting weight so I just went in at -74 and when it came time for the test hits I tried the little tap and nothing happening. So I hit it a little harder, still nothing. To score I actually needed to give it some at that weight, which makes sense cos it's 10kg up. That was the first time I realised that the weight class was going to make a big difference. At competitions like that it's not uncommon for there to be some weight classes with not with ppl so they merge them. That puts the lighter ppl at a big disadvantage cos now they have to hit hard enough to score on the heavier system. But it's why the high level guys you watch at the Olympics now don't have to hit hard. They have fine tuned their weight to power ratio. I guess it also makes sense for one day tournaments to avoid injuries and exhaustion. I also fought a really great guy there who made me realise how different the levels were. He was a national team member for Cyprus but a guy who has never actually made the team to compete for them. And his mastery of distance control was like nothing I'd ever seen. Again, it played the system by moving in and out just enough that I couldn't cleanly land the top of my foot on him. Either just far out enough that I was landing with my toes and couldn't deliver the force I needed to score, or all the way in so that I was landing with my shin and not the foot pad. Made me think how good Olympians must be.
If I'm going to combine the best martial arts, it would be the ff: TKD, Muay Thai, JKD, Pangamut, Wingchun, Boxing, Savate, capoeira and BZllan Jujitsu.
Can I suggest you read the book "A killing art the untold history of Tae Kwon Do" by Alex Gillis. This will tell you everything you need to know about the art. Its real background and the lie that is WTF/WT. I would expect someone with your background to research a style and to not walk in blindly to any old school. I myself did this when I found two local and semi local Seidokaikan karate clubs. I knew that at some stage they were training Kyokushin. So I contacted the Seidokaikan HQ to which I was told the are NO clubs affiliated to them in Australia. These clubs were using their name and logo illegally.
Yes I also test out each class before attending. The guy I trained with here is very legit as a fighter and I saw his Muay Thai fights but the problem is that he doesn't have a grown up class really.
McGregor trained a lot of TKD when he was at his prime. Of course he mixed it with other all the other stuff he was excellent at. His instructor killed a guy in a street fight, went to prison and McGregor’s game changed after from what I can see.
I’m sure Gunnar Nelson who is a Goju Ryu black belt had an impact too. His coach John Kavanagh was a black belt in Kenpo. A hybrid Karate, TKD, MT etc style that was following on from the framework Machida had laid down. I think injuries/lifestyle really were the nail in the coffin.
Was late last night and hadn’t watched the video before commenting. A lot of McGregor’s success came from this TKD training. He absolutely used it as a supplement to his training. I don’t know the full story but he trained at SBG and they used this particular TKD coach who was v well known in Dublin. I don’t know all the details but it’s absolutely a major part of his success. One question: I’d be concerned about injuries as a middle age gentleman, that said, this video has really got me thinking about training this. What would you say about that? Great vid by the way.
I would say my favourite thing TKD teaches you is switching stances and being effective in both. You learn to do everything on both sides which very few styles teach.
I trained taekwondo for seven years almost during the 90s during what you called it the old school taekwondo before moving to Muaythai and Kyokushin for the past 25 years. If I'll agree with something it will be that taekwondo really developes a unique kind of re action and distance cutting technique. Also it has a strong back turning kick which they call it Ti Chigi ( as an Oshiro mawashi in Kyokushin. I believe taekwondo overall started to go down and moved out from the martial arts dictionary after they joined the Olympics because the way of training has changed to be more like a flashy point system moving to be closer to sports than martial arts. In taekwondo barley they do conditioning training or at least some push-ups, unlike the way you train Muaythai or Kyokushin. Thanks man for sharing all these valuable insights on martial arts. Osu..
It’s crazy to know I’ve been training TKD for years and the way he analyzed the attributes in terms of kicking ability and it’s uniqueness I thought all styles that incorporate kicks knew how to do this lol 😆 I thought it was normal training to be that fast but I guess not. I always loved kicking styles and Jean Claude Van Damme 🎉thanks for the insight
The double kick is also one of my favourites. It works really well in other sports just cos it's so easy to set up and so unexpected. Japanese kickboxers are really great at it.
I used TKD (green belt) effectively at least three times in self-defense, in two out of three, knockdowns occured on first strike. First in rear attack, 180 degree reverse elbow to body (he was tall), and in an attack by two people at drinking party, sidekick to body sending guy across the room into corner on his behind (his friend backed off). Thirdly, multiple hammerfists/low block to break a clothesline of two guys's locked arms on top of an escalator at a mall. The explosiveness and strong technique of the art are more than most people can handle, even with a friend. We did lots of kicks and forms with discipline of technique, a little breaking, and almost no sparring. I suppose the training's effectiveness was in how it made you do a technique when the fight part of the fight or flight response occurs. When the bodies reaction to dangerous stress becomes a clean explosive technique under adrenaline, you become effective. This training produces a poor ring fighter, but can form an effective form of self defence. The basic hand movements (just like karate) have many applications, and are easily integrated with weapons, similar to the Dambe Boxing.
I've never heard of people hating TKD. That's too bad as a skilled TKD student has incredible range and power. They can knock you out at a distance where you think you are safe.
Personally, I prefer ITF based Taekwondo, as they actually use their hands in sparring. The Olympics has diluted WTF so much, that it's pointless to use 'em, even though they train many hand/elbow/arm techniques in general. Would be interesting to see your opinion on ITF Taekwondo
This is the perfect time for you to check out Nextkd. They qre actually paying fighters there is no electronic chest gear like in the Olympics and foot fencing which creates chicken fighting is ILLEGAL. It's not perfect but its definitely an attempt to get back to yhe good tkd
I do Wtf Taekwondo and my coach teaches us the old school way, like you said , its effectiveness is based on the coach you find. My coach also have trained the military
The problem with taekwondo is that no one is taught real taekwondo, or almost no one. Real taekwondo has open hand and closed han technic. It also has takedowns, joint locks, sweeps, and standup grappling. It has the exact same origin as Tang Soo Do. The difference is that it has been modified for more leg use. Taekwondo has all the same technics as karate. So, the technica are there. The only thing needed is to teach it properly and seriously train thos technic.
The reality here is that it is an exception. That has always been the issue. I was fighting in tournaments in the 70s and tkd was done bareknuckle with punches to the head. The reality is it is too far from where it could be.
I wonder how many good martial artists started out in TKD, Judo or Karate, because they were the closest dojos. Perhaps TKD, Judo and Karate should be looked upon as the gateway drugs to a martial arts addiction.
I learned TKD from a kickboxer on a military base in the 80s. I supplemented with Wing Chun, Boxing and Judo and competed in open point tournaments. Point tournaments in the 80s were pretty high contact at the Brown and Black Belt levels. TKD gave me all of the attributes you talked about. I was able to use my kicks in street fights. Once I had a guy try to start a fight and I just threw a lead roundhouse kick to his head and controlled so he felt the boot but didn’t hit him. He and his friends just walked away.
I’m not a TKD guy. I got my yellow belt as a kid but I think the kicks are impressive and if taught correctly is effective. There’s just no need for 360’s and stuff in real combat.
I started in karate and exiled to mma. I ended up gravitating towards boxing and my striking style these days is essentially out boxing with dextrous high kicks sprinkled inbetween combinations. TKD is the same thing, the kicks and dexterity you get from these traditional gi striking styles is unmatched. Great video
15:20 “It is fencing with your feet.” I love that you brought that up because the fundamental kicks of TKD are indirectly from Savate which is French “foot fencing” that was developed in France partly because of the bans on dueling with swords. And these kicks were adopted into Shotokan Karate during the early 20th Centuries just as the Koreans where there to learn Shotokan and who later adapted it and created TKD TKD then took the kicking aspect and dialed it up to OVER 9000!!!
@@thedappermagician6905 It is not. All of the founders of the original kwans had background mainly from Shotokan Karate and some other Karate styles. There are no documentation that any of them trained Taekkyon extensively. However, as Taekkyon was considered korean, they created a mythology around it in order to legitimize Taekwondo as a uniquely korean sport. However, as someone who has trained both Shotokan Karate, Taekwondo and Taekyon, Taekkyon is way different from the other two.
Sorry, have to disagree here. The closest art to Taekwondo is Taekkyon. Taekwondo is a more practical version of Taekkyon or could even be considered v2.0. The kicks are all the same, a lot of circular and jumping motion combinations like the spinning round house, crescent kicks, and jumping side kicks. Not only that, it's the combination of these kicks that Taekwondo retains with it's explosive multi kick drives. Could the originators of Taekwondo have been influenced by other styles, certainly, but as in modernizing it and removing the fluff kind of way.
TKD is an upgrade side quest art . Years to upgrade your kicking instrument . Boxing / bJJ / wrestling / krav / Muay Thai / ……then …… after years of the above … upgrade your kicks
The problem is, I don't think you can learn TKD kicks to a high level if you start past like 10. I started at 8 or 9 and saw so many people come in order and they can't ever quite get those hips
I pretty much always thought TKD was useless as well. I recently found out WTF is different than ITF. ITF seems fairly legit. I think WTF went the route of the Olympics and became commercialized. ITF never did that.
I've never had much time for Taekwondo, but my son is five years old, when he's six, I'm signing him up for classes. I consider it a sport, like Judo (my second choice). The main reason is that he is likely to get hit or kicked reasonably safely. I don't want him to get hit or kicked, but I don't want him to freeze if he ever gets hit when he's older. Modern Taekwondo is great for kids because they break things down to simple steps, six year olds don't have a huge attention span.
I earned 2nd Dan in ITF TKD back in '84 my junior year of high school. It took me 10 years of training. Then during my time in the Army at Ft Bragg I found a Tracy's Kenpo Dojo and learned that system. It took me 4 years to earn my 1st Dan in 1989 due to Army scheduling and field duties. Both styles complement each other. Now I train to keep the body fit.
I've use to spar a guy who has a black in Tae Kwon Do and has done a lot of Boxing. (Among several other arts.) A guy with both a Boxing and Tao kwon Do is hard to hit and hits really f***ing hard!
Given that the head is a viable target, why don't they keep their hands up? Just curious. Does it kill the momentum of lower body movement? Is it an invitation to get your forearms messed up?
Yes very much so and they don’t believe in blocking in sport as much as moving out of the way. Same idea as boxers who play that game. I’m no fan of it and older tkd had higher hands
How could you say that TKD is not good fighting style when it works in the Octagon? Thug Rose Benson Henderson and others have used it effectively in the Octagon
Props for being open minded, but I will never accept that sh!t lol. I had suspicions about TKD in high school when I, a young wrestler who also had done 6 months of Muay Thai, was able to wipe the earth with every black belt at my friends school. As a teenager! Then years later, when multiple TKD black belts came to our kali/silat class and found out everything they had learned pretty much doesn't work, one even cried hahaha!!! He was also a krav maga pracitioner, there's another worthless "art". The top black belt at another school came to our class because he admitted TKD was severely lacking.
Taekwondo seems to be having a revival as folk finally cotton on to the difference between ITF and WTF (or WT as it's now known). Of course taekwondo is incomplete (it offers very little in the way of grappling or leg kicks). And of course it's generally practised as a polite church-hall (or mall) martial art (inclusive and non-threatening), rather than a bruising combat sport or rugged street self-defence system. But you'll find some interesting videos on TH-cam, yes, of taekwondokas caught out by hard-hitting combat sports practitioners, but also a few who can live with full-contact making muay thai look clumsy and limited. Another video worth seeing is Sensei Seth's "What martial art hits hardest" - won by TKD!
To Elon, Inside Fighting: you said you lived in Portugal now. If you’re learning the language a really great read is Lyoto Machida’s `O código do dragao’. I could not find it in English for some reason so read it in Portuguese. It might spark another interest in you and/or another video. Your channel is awesome, keep up the great work.
I love TKD I wish I could afford the school I tried out, it gives you some OUTSTANDING weapons for the toolbox, currently doing boxing, I've done Karate Juijitsu and MMA ect🥊
I was a Taekwondo Instructor for about 2 1/2 years. I had to move on to a better paying job at the end of last year, but I had fun teaching. I always tried to make sure I taught the students the practical applications of the forms once I figured out what they were. The biggest issue with the system is that it is watered down and no longer cares much for practicality, but more for the sport of it. The reason for this is the people training it don't want the practical side of it. They just want to have fun, which is fine. I once asked the advanced class (red, high red and bodan belts) if they would like me to teach them the application of a technique in Form 7, but everyone said no ;-; I was so sad. . . but then I later told the application to one of the black belts and it blew his mind XD
7:45 i would say Shotokan and point karate develop these skills in much more effective way than TKD. 15:15 i would say Savate fit this description much more. But i would love to see the axe kick made more useful,at least for Andy Hug. Reminds me of this concept,called Three Arm Boxing,where is like Full Contact Kickboxing,but you can only use one leg to kick,the other only for movement. Used as a skill building tool for distance management and technique,by reducing the number of variables.
The more I read the OLD-SCHOOL savate manuals (Charlemont's boxe francais specifically), the more in common with a lot of TKD there seems to be with even the basic stance built on the old "line of battle" concept from foil fencing, lots of stance changes, feints, foot-fencing, and attacking on the charge rather than the more-common advance-plant-kick we tend to see elsewhere. Real life has had me prioritizing elsewhere for a while, but I think it may be worth playing with some tkd friends a bit on tuesday to see what happens.
@@russmitchellmovement ay,peculiar seeing you here, would definetly enjoy hearing the take of a knowledgeable HEMA guy such as yourself. I am sure Ilan would definetly appreciate hearing about HEMA from you too. Maybe he would come to appreciate the Fokos too.
I went back to shotokan for fun, play boxing, rough housing.. We had a TKD / Hapkido well known teacher, just wanted to play round. We started doing playful sparing, and about few days some ground work. Here is what happened. Our BJJ skills skyrocketed. Our Real sparing, was incredibly improved.. all cause we changed our approach to go 95% playful, and 5% hard cord. TKD, BJJ, Hapkido, Daito Ryu Jiu Jitsu Aikijiujitsu..... in learning how to play instead of hard core sparing.... we jumped in level of ability to defend ourselves.
Well I'm a tkd guy so I'll be biased. It was National Geographic that had that strongest kick challenge. Sensei Seth recently did a strongest martial arts techniques challenge too and tkd came out on top. The problem is people only see the sparring. For Taekwondo gradings you are tested on way more than that. You have traditional elements such as patterns and techniques demonstrations (including hand techniques) like Karate. You break boards, and spar but you also perform self defense against strikes and grabs. Now it's down to the teacher but these other areas are not pressure tested enough in my opinion. The art does have all these parts, but rarely are they practiced effectively.
I've thought for a while that kyokushin plus WTF taekwondo would be a great combination. A very similar ruleset, but one specializes in fighting up close whereas the other specializes in fighting on the outside. And taekwondo does have all the hand techniques you need, but they just don't use them in sparring. On one hand that's a shame, but on the other we got an elite kicking style out of it.
@@inside_fighting I'm a tang soo do instructor. The master at my dojang was an old school taekwondo champion, and we do a lot of WTF style sparring. Cool guy, and good all around fighter. I wanted to learn to use my hands a little better, so I did a year of boxing and it helped me out a lot, especially up close. Now I'm analyzing kyokushin fighters and doing drills to try to steal tricks from them. Studying Kenji Midori in particular has proved useful, especially against taller guys. There aren't any kyokushin schools nearby, but I would like to maybe test for rank in kyokushin one day.
I think that point karate is better for self defense than kyokushin. Purely cos it involves punches to the face. Kyokushin guys are tough as nails but I've seen too many videos of them fighting guys from other styles, getting touched in the face and just freaking out cos they've not trained to deal with it. In the heat of the moment I think it's easier to add power to a point style than face punch defense to a style without it.
Moon said that once per year, the head of the Moo Duk Kwan association would personally test all of the gold-badge holders. (It's now called "Tang Soo Do") He had no time for anything but one test. They had to stand still, with their arms fully-outstretched vertically. Then he'd hit them as hard as he could across their abs, with the EDGE, 2" side of a long 2x4 board. IF they even GRUNTED, they lost their franchise to be the only one who was allowed to teach in a given area. They looked fat, but it was all muscle across their midsections. Moon was 5 foot 4" and 160 lbs and he could jump side-kick TWICE as far as me (after I'd trained for 9 months, 7 hours per week) I was 165 lbs, 6 ft tall. I saw him sweep the leg of a 6 ft, 240 lb man, like it was a broom stick. I couldnt budge the guy. I thought it was my bad technique! :-) Moon said, "Push, down, move" (my leg sideways). yes, that's all, along with being able to squat with 4x your bodyweight! SIMPLE , right?
Cool story. But only 7 hours per week? That was the main Difference / Reason why. That dude was likely training +4 hrs every single day. To reach Masterclass level results... the arts have to become a daily way of life. I trained in a few different arts. I was always throwing kicks, handstrikes, deflection techs...etc.. all throughout the entire day / night... no matter where I was, or what I was doing (even at work). Of course, I also had standard long session Block Training too. I probably threw like +2000 hand techs, and 1000 kicks, every day. By the end of a weeks time, thats a LOT of reps. I think I was training between 4 and + 8hrs, every day. I was pretty obsessed... and I didnt have any other hobbies / distractions. I maintained that level of intensity and pace, for a solid 5 yrs, before easing up. Of course, once you fully master what you have learned... you no longer need to train as long.. as you just need to keep your tools Sharp. That said, Ive never tried to sweep a dude. I just stop-kicked the Kneecap. Different arts, Different techniques.
Traditional TaeKwondo is VERY effective. It all depends on the instructor. EVERY martial art is more similar than it is different. Our TKD system (JidoKwan) has submissions, grappling, throws, sweeps and trips, blocks, AND self defense applications. Don't bash the Art, bash the way it's been watered down. I'm SO thankful my Grand Master thought outside the box. I teach REAL, EFFECTIVE TKD to adults! I teach the traditional system to kids. And yes, TKD does have spinning elbows. It's ALL in the Katas (forms), you just gotta' LOOK for it.
I've spent 1,5 year in taekwondo 12 years ago. My current Kudo trainer is very impressed with my kicks (even despite a decade long training pause). Yes, taekwondo is a great kicking school.
I agree. I would add there are two systems of tkd; the old ITF style has more techniques sweeps., stomps , hands. But it is a point system with roots to military and should not be underestimated. The speed of the wtf system Olympic produces great skillset of these skills. I think Nelson of combat wrestling under Paulson adds some footwork. There have been some good tkd instructors who add boxing like hee IL Cho from old days of full contact. Anyway thanks for your insights. Great video and opened my eyes
Practicing ITF TKD before boxing gave me many advantages at boxing like better footwork and distance management and also quicker and more effective guard change, because in TKD we learn kicking/punching from both guards interchangeably. I see also another advantage for MMA kicking and it is instep kicking as opposed to shin kicking which conditions those delicate bones of feet (heel included) and also lengthens the kick's effective range. And let's not forget that other than Yair the most famous UFC ITF TKD practitioner was Mirko Crocop who practiced it in his youth before started kick boxing.
@@inside_fighting TKD was the first martial art I did. Then I went on to Tai Chi, FMA, some Kung Fu styles...I was attacked in a store, the person pushing me violently. I tried "blending" with the energy as I was really into Tai Chi at the time. It totally did not work so I decided to get out of there and walked away down the street. The person ran after me and struck me several times across the back with a club. All of sudden, without thinking I started to do TKD roundhouse kicks. It seemed like I was almost above my body watching myself. I threw many kicks and my assailant was fiercely trying to block the kicks with his one empty hand the club but he could not touch any of them. Each one of my roundhouse kicks got through, slamming in their torso and legs. Then I knew it was enough and just walked away. I wasn't followed. It was like muscle memory took over of the many hours practicing TKD roundhouse kicks.
@@inside_fighting It is great. It seems TKD was formulated as a "killing art" for the Korean military. Also interesting, is that Shotokan is the foundation of TKD (coupled with some Korean high kicking methods).
Tae Kwon Do has such a huge range of quality. Cause on the one hand ive beat alot if TKD ppl with ease. Even ones with higher belts ...but then you get those hardcore TKD guys and its downright scary. One guy at my gym will just fire low kicks with superb timing and tbh i havent found an answer for it. Oh also he had a 26 second first round KO win kicking a guy in the face 😂
Getting ready for the 30 minute video! 😂 I get your message, and it’s an important one, pick out what works for you and add it to your toolbox. I device I have been going on for the majority of my life, not just for Martial Arts.
I think Taekwondo is a martial art that brilliantly translates the philosophy of boxing into kicks. When comparing boxing to Muay Thai, the characteristic of boxing is a hit-and-run style, while Muay Thai is a style of giving flesh and taking bones, while Taekwondo is a martial art that clearly pursues the boxing style. Unlike Muay Thai, kicking attacks in Taekwondo are performed simultaneously while moving, and hit-and-run movements are performed with highly mobile footwork. I think it's natural for people's attention to turn to Taekwondo in a situation where Muay Thai-style footwork and kicking are weaknesses in MMA.
Im an ITF black belt and I agree with what you are saying here. TKD is a good art but its too specialised. I study BJJ now and because ive got a good leg coordination from TKD and dexterity I'm very good at triangles.
Switched to full contact Karate years ago, but have a brief background in TKD. There is this idea that the only roundhouse kick TKD has, is the more snappy approach that you see extensively in modern WTF rules that favor that approach to kicking. Hell that's all I was taught, and my old dojang was more akin to ITF like rules than WTF rules. All these older school clips you show, clearly demonstrates these older TKD guys know how to use their hips for power generation just like anyone else. I wish leg kicks were apart of their regular curriculum though. That one simple addition, whilst putting aside all the modern BS, would create an awesome combat sport with a ton of value. As you said, TKD ideally, is boxing with your feet, but unfortunately, has a lot of nonsense getting in the way of it being that universally.
Many MMA / UFC training places... Teach TKD / Karate style kicks. HOWEVER... what they did NOT bring with them, is the Special ATTRIBUTE training, that makes the kicks: Faster, Stronger, more Accurate, More Precise, and developing more Endurance. A single example, is TKD use of SLOW extension and retraction of the Leg, in the middle of the air. This develops your leg muscles to a much greater level of strength... and thus, you gain much greater control and precision, as a result. Its easy to allow Speed and Momentum to do most of the work... but without slow motion training... your kicks wont be half as powerful.. nor will you have a fraction of the Endurance, while in a match. MMA / UFC Fighters are notorious for pretty slow, telegraphed, and sloppy kicks. While even sloppy techniques can land with enough power to do damages / KOs... a lot of times, this can lead to kicks being Evaded, Caught, and or Countered... as well as potentially Missing the OP, and or Landing with far less power potentials. The UFC / MMA training mindset, was to learn and develop as many effective techniques.. as Quickly as possible. The only part of their training that they invest a Disproportionate amount of Extended time and effort into.. is in BJJ (Grappling). Which, in the sport context, makes sense... As being able to remain standing while sparring / fighting... takes a Lot more Skill, than many of these fighters had the time to develop. As such, they initially got taken down fairly easily... and so most of the time, they were on the Floor, rolling around, grappling. Over the many years forwards... the fighters started to get much better at resisting and preventing takedowns. As such, striking is now becoming a stronger Focus, than it initially started out. While some of these guys have spent some time trying to learn from other arts, mid-career... The problem is still a matter of Time and Efforts. You cant take a few Wing Chun classes, and then, think you are going to be able to use these things, in the Ring. It takes a lot of time and efforts, to reach a level of Mastery of them. Also, you need to develop your bodys Attributes up properly, to have effective potentials. If your Handstrikes are too slow.. or.. you lack short range power to KO... then your Wing Chun strikes are not going to be very effective, even IF your FORM is spot on. Of course, WC's main challenge, would be in learning the many Deflection Techniques... and developing Simultaneous Dual-Arm Coordination, with these Techs. Many hours worth of In-Air Movements, and Then Partner Drills... are required. And then you still have to Learn and Master applying them under pressure, in a sparring / fighting environment. A Masterclass level TKD kicker.. can be a nightmare to get anywhere within striking distance of... without the potential of getting a KO kick, or some broken ribs. Ive sparred against many TKD fighters that were pretty easy to get in and defeat... but One TKD fighter in particular.. was a Beast of a Fighter... and gave me a Real challenge to get close too. The main issue with Modern TKD, is the lack of Iron Bone Conditioning.. as well as the Sportized Rules, the do not allow kicks below the Waist. That said, if you were learning TKD... there is nothing stopping you from doing Shin Conditioning (and or full Iron Body conditioning).. as well as learning how to target and kick the OPs legs. I will also say, the other issue tends to be the use of too many Forms. Certain arts forms, are very beneficial to the development of the Artist, and the Preservation of the Arts methods. But some of the modern sportized arts... often created more forms.. as a way to get more money from students (from a lot of paid "Testing" events). These often use the same techniques over and over again... but just use different arrangements. Not much, if anything, NEW... is being learned / trained, from one form to the next.
My ex was a tkd national champ (cyprus) and went to various world n european comps, doing very well. She was around 85 kg. I fought semi pro in muay thai n k1. She landed headkicks on me regularly. God damn, the pro men i sparred couldn't and she could. Of course all of this would go south once we were using hands to sparr as she didn't know how to box, but there are some dangerous kicks u SHOULDN'T eat. Spinning back kick, side kick and the flamingo stance which would be a combo of a hook, axe, side, or roundhouse kick. Better off just close the distance clinch and ur safe, instead of exchanging kicks.
People need to understand that there is alot of messy politics in Taekwondo which stemmed from and was brought about by the North/South Korea split. The gyst of the messy politics is that the founder of Taekwondo General Choi Hong Hi was a native North Korean but served the South Korean Army during the war. However he didn’t want politics to be involved in the system he created, so decades after the ceasefire, he had no qualms traveling to North Korea to teach TKD to North Korea. That ruffled alot of feathers in South Korea and caused him to be practically banished from the South. But the South government didn’t want to do away with his system he created so they created WTF to snub him. And the rest is history. This video was talking about “old school” taekwondo but is really referring to old school WTF. True old school style is ITF taekwondo (the style that General Choi, which was coined after the SK government snubbed him), and yes, there is an even older school style than ITF but that was when Taekwondo was one system just like at the height of Roman Christiandom Christianity was a single catholic church. ITF supporters would say ITF is the true form of TKD in its originality and WTF is responsible for the mockery of TKD today. WTF supporters would say ITF doesn’t evolve and the content of what’s taught in ITF is the exact same techniques founder Choi Hong Hi taught back in the 50’s, 60’s, & 70’s. Obviously, the centrist take on this would be that it would be most ideal for ITF & WTF to be one single catholic Taekwondo system.
More to Tae Kwon Do than your Olympic style sparring. If you look at the Poomsae s you'll find elbows. But nobody trains elbows,let alone spars with them. Then we have the self defense techniques. Fight Science is the channel, Bren Foster is the T.K.D. stylist.
I'd imagine after getting a solid foundation in other arts, the intricacies of TKD become more appealing.
That’s the realization i came to. I’m glad it’s not my base but I’m loving the idea of training it now.
You speak the truth. Got my black belt when I was 15, and left TKD after. Trained mostly on my own for 10+ years. Now that I've studied many arts since then, I see how to make certain TKD movements way, away more effective.
@@inside_fightingI think you should keep attending. The athletic training and speed with the martial arts skills is fantastic.
By the way I had the similar experience as yourself. Taekwondo can kick you before you punch. All styles Taekwondo is effective
@@inside_fightingstrongly disagree about Taekwondo does not work in self defence.
The reason being a florist in Greece (woman) Taekwondo black belt (who was not a mma fighter) took on four men armed knives and beat them. If you can read Greek it is in the papers about 12yrs old
The interesting thing is that in the forms of Kukki (national) Taekwondo (which is the actual name of the style people tend to call WTF Taekwondo), there are more arm techniques than leg-techniques.
In the complete Kukkiwon curriculum(as defined in the Kukkiwon Textbook), the self-defense curriculum encourages high guard, boxing style punches and body movement, knees, elbows, low kicks, takedowns and even limited groundwork and joint locks, and even modern training methods and more complete sparring. The problem is that 95% of what people are spending time on in Kukki Taekwondo clubs, is training for WT(F) style competition, since winning competition brings prestige to the school, and in the process they effectively ignore the rest of the system.
If people had spent more time training the complete system, Kukki Taekwondo would NOT have had a reputation as such an incomplete martial art. Here's a demo (with high movie-fu factor) by the Kukkiwon of the modern Kukki Taekwondo self-defense curriculum, and while it is obiously made to look like an action movie, every technique that is shown in the demo is in the actual Kukki Taekwondo system, including the head punches, low kicks, takedowns, joint locks and weapon techniques: th-cam.com/video/Gi1kqKIf4hk/w-d-xo.html
Didn't know that! Thanks for sharing!
I hold a first dan black in tae kwon do. It's a mere supplement for my other styles, as tkd focuses on kcks. The hip twist conditioning to make kicks snap is something I took from it. My graduation to black was breaking a 2x4 lumber complete with corners, with an "axe" kick, as my undefeated Korean national champion instructor calls it. I learned the old school, and man, I've been turning side bashed in the diaphragm so many times, which ended with me curled up like a child on the ground unable to breath. In tournaments, I've fractured my jaw and clavicle, but it also won me the national championship inspite of the injuries. Old school tkd, is legit. My instructor fought off 8 guys while he was drunk and they were all sent to the hospital. His name was Kyu Sang Han.
I earned a black belt in TKD also and my instructor learned under Grandmaster Chung Kee Tae. I feel like they also came from a more old-school TKD background as they were very concerned with practical application. There were also kickboxing and Muay Thai classes at my school so I eventually transitioned to that. Whenever I went to a new Muay Thai school, they were always impressed with the variety and power of my kicks. It's funny because TKD is typically more of a snapping kick while Muay Thai is a follow-through power kick, but I think the hip flexibility I had gained in TKD translated very well to the power Muay Thai kicks. Anyway, I think it is generally good to learn multiple Martial Arts and styles and I don't regret learning TKD.
@@kaguth I agree. I learned some Muay Thai when I was studying Jeet Kun Do. TKD added a lot to my precision and more target options when the opportunity came up.
To clarify, my original style was Tae Kwon Do.
@kaguth That's interesting. You're really lucky to have trained in old-school taekwondo.
When I look at footage of old school taekwondo, its fascinating to see how much power their kicks had.
Since you've trained in both Muay thai and old school taekwondo, which style would you say has the more damaging front kicks ?
@@King75102 That’s an interesting and hard question, and it has been a few decades since I’ve trained seriously. TKD has a several different options for the front kick, but assuming it’s a rear leg front kick similar to a teep I would say that against another trained fighter they would be similar. I think the TKD front kick could be delivered with more power against a target. The reel is often used to push people back, but TKD uses it more as a precision power strike.
I’ll use a teep at short range before a TKD front kick because the teep can still work if gets a little jammed up. The TKD front kick not so much. But my experience was in the 90s before Muay Thai became as big as it is. I would love to hear from others.
Out of curiosity you should look into ITF (International TaeKwon-Do Federation) style as well. It was originally developed for the South Korean army. They use both legs and hand techniques. Tremendous power as well
Yeah, my students lost for excessive contact to the body at a recent ITF tournament.
Ya, as a kid I stayed away from itf due to its lack of aggression and point style scoring. I dont care what the style is, the fight should NOT stop everytime a point is scored. WTF lacks punching but at least you get 3, 3-minute rounds.
@@Autonomous_617ITF sparring is only point stop until blue belt, after blue belt it is continuous and at black belt level sparring it's pretty much a full contact sport
Itf is real TKD way more brutal than WTF TKD that’s in the Olympics lol it’s from North Korea 🇰🇵
@@yearlytwomonthly6113It's not from North Korea lol
I’ve never trained TKD but I had many many tkd buddies and I will say this:
“The very best kickboxers that I’ve ever seen were TKD guys who have trained Boxing”
I grew up in the Kenpo, Kajukenbo and Kung fu scene.
Tkd guys have great cardio, great flexibility, great balance and they understand that attributes are just as important n maybe even more important then techniques.
If you mix:
1. TKD
2. Boxing
3. Judo or Jiujitsu
You will have a far more elite striking stylist then your average Thai boxer.
And for street fights the tkd mindset of hitting and not getting hit versus Thai boxing attitude of absorb and fire back is far superior.
One of the first martial arts channels I ever saw here on TH-cam when I was new to martial arts and looking for kicking tips was (Kwonkicker), a Taekwondo/kickboxing guy who's trained in Thailand and even did a seminar on kicking at Tiger Muay Thai.
His tutorials helped me tremendously when I was just starting out years ago, and showed how great Taekwondo and traditional martial arts kicks could be in in kickboxing/mma
(Edit) I just checked cause I haven't looked at his stuff in ages, but he's still around. He just goes by the channel name (Micah Brock) now and still seems to have his old videos up 👍
I remember that guy, he's a fantastic martial artist!
From what I recall, he had the best instructional videos on Tae Kwon Do that I've came across. You know of other channels that are of that caliber of kicking?
general kenobi .
@@crisalcantara7671 Hello there
Your channel is the best fight channel for me because you are so open-minded. You can always see the best in a martial art. In my opinion it also shows your combat experience. Many other channels talk about different styles, but if you say something positive about a style, I think you mean it. I don't see this on many other channels.
I appreciate that
The thing with superficial martial arts fans, is they forget that these traditional martial arts were developed and used in ancient battles, including taekwondo. Sure, a lot were lost in time, but with a good school and teacher, they are definitely worth it.
the biggest problem with traditional martial arts isn't that the techniques don't work, it's the lack of realistic applications training... the more MMA evolves and advances the more you see it circling back to traditional techniques people used to scoff at... i think if it continues long enough eventually MMA will essentially come to embrace all the traditional techniques, just with better applications...
Bro both of yall are so right
Taekwondo was stolen and repackaged karate, but the ROK soldiers in south Korea seem to make it work well
I hope TKD's explosive in-out footwork gets talked more like this video, especially good to translate that footwork skill to mma since TKD's far range is similar to mma.
How are they similar?
@junichiroyamashita mma fight usually has long distance between two fighters like TKD.
wholeheartedly agree...i learned TKD, and use it immensely in terms of footwork + kicking...especially useful if you're someone who switches from orthodox to southpaw a lot (something TKD really focuses on)... the ability to change ranges quickly and deceptively is indeed phenomenal... using it in combination with muay thai/kenpo/hapkido/kickboxing makes it extremely useful...but as you said, only as a supplemental art...
It's cool to hear you use it in the way I hope to eventually.
@@inside_fighting thank you... i was just really stoked to see someone actually acknowledge its benefits... the other thing: hook kicks.. the TKD style snapping hook kick is absolutely terrifying when someone truly masters it... most MMA/kickboxing guys swing the leg up and hook the heel, but in TKD you essentially do a roundhouse kick past the person's head and use the momentum to snap your heel back... it's far sharper, snappier, faster, and more explosive... and even better, most people see it and think you just missed the roundhouse kick so they're not even looking for the hook... was my bread and butter kick until i tore my ACL
TKD was my first art, I was lucky to train and compete in the late 90's-early 2000's during what is now being called by some as the "Power Era". Which is the time the training footage you used is from. Man, we trained to kick *hard* moving in all directions, not just fast. One of the guidelines to score in competition at the time was having to physically displace our opponent with our kick ("trembling shock" was what they called it).
Timing drills, reaction drills, incredible footwork -- which I still don't see utilized in other combat sports -- we trained and fought orthodox and southpaw...it was a time... My teachers motto was, "If we lose it won't be because we're out of shape." lol He also told us a back kick isn't a good back kick if it doesn't fold the heavy bag.
The style is very different now, even for me and it's only been 20 something years. The electronic hogu really changed the game.
What a great video, thanks 😊. Started TKD in the 70s, trained in Korea in the 80s, got my 4th dan (WTF) in the 90s. Still training, and combine TKD skills with boxing and grappling. TKD done well is an elite movement and kicking system. THANKS to you I am going to adopt and use "Old School Taekwondo".
😊
Super cool! I am glad to hear that you liked the video :)
Front Kick - Ap Chagi (“Ap Cha-gee”). Other great kicks are The Inner/Outer Crescent Kick (“An Chagi / Bakkat Chagi”) and Wheel kick.
Okay...
So obviously I'm a subscriber and I appreciate your content as a curious/thoughtful student of martial arts.
Sensei Seth has recently branched out and done Sumo, Savat, wing Chun etc...after doing a tier list he has since admitted was based in ignorance of most of the styles he critiqued.
And I feel like that is what a lot of content creators do...I just saw a "keysi" doesn't work a day or 2 after your video on it...and basically came back to they don't do it in MMA (slightly more nuanced but you get the gist)
Keep doing stuff like this.
You can see the taekwondo moves in MMA everytime but people don't actknowledge it
Do people really hate TKD? But why? It's an Olympic sport. It has sparring. Seems like a great starting point for beginners to martial arts to me. I've always seen it as sorta like boxing except with kicks rather than punches. Is the hate because Muy Thai is seen as vastly superior to TKD as an overall martial art? The only art that I've seen get openly ridiculed all the time by everyone is Aikido and I wonder if some of that is because Steven Seagal is such an absurd clown show of a person.
3rd Dan 80s power TKD here. The footwork I have gained from TKD is the most useful thing about it. The extreme range of TKD kicks, is also surprising. You must understand the limitations, strengths and scope of any martial art. TKD, like many martial arts, is geared towards competition - where rules have been 'gamed' to simply win in a tournament. The same could be said of BJJ where pulling guard in a striking match would be bad, for example - hate away... (GJJ blue belt)
No hate :)
There's a good handful of fighters in the UFC alone with taekwondo backgrounds. Thug Rose and Antony Pettis, both great fighters with great kicks.
Agreed yet somehow their base is overlooked
Yair...
Edson Barboza, Petr Yan, Sage Northcutt(ex) Smooth Benson Henderson
Taekwondo is the military equivalent of the USAF… we get shit on by everyone else, but everyone else wants to be in the USAF! 😉.
I started in Karate ( very loosely taught) back when I was 7, got into plenty of street fights from 7 to 12… grew up in the projects, it’s what we did….
Started ITF TKD…” Kukkiwan “ back in 82 at the age of 12 until 17 while also wrestling and boxing throughout junior high and high school… I went off to serve in the military, and in my travels I learned a little bit of various arts, Muy Thai, Kickboxing, etc….
Now after a 35 year hiatus I just earned my 1st Dan Blackbelt in wait for it…. The same Dojang I got my start in wayyyy back in 1982!
I have to say, this is a very well done video about TKD…🤙🏾👊🏾🙏🏽
That episode was from National Geographic with Bren Foster (an Australian martial artist / actor). Bren is also an exceptional athlete, and martial artist, so a lot of the power/accuracy does come down to the practitioner as usual. His kick was measured at 219km/h (136.08mph) with 1042kg (2297.22lb) of force behind it.
What you can get from TKD is indeed the kicks, speed, and athleticism, as it's very dynamic. Also look into Hwa Rang Do.
He’s a specimen but the kick was a perfect tkd kick and demonstrates how effective it can be
@@inside_fighting For sure.
@@VenturiLife gonna deep dive in tk hwarangdo soon
@@inside_fightingYeah his technique is amazing and what's so unique is he is not planted like typical Dutch or Thai Kickboxers so his base foot pivots off the ground which would add more Speed and Power due to zero friction.
The one thing I didnt like about that specific show... was that they didnt really compare Apples to Apples. I believe the TKD kicker, was the only one of the artists, to take a single step with his kick. Obviously, if your whole body is stepping in... its gained forwards momentum, which is added to the power of your legs kick. They also didnt factor in the MASS of each of the fighters.
I believe that they claimed that the Boxer had the strongest punches. However, the little Chinese dude, used like less than 6 inches of travel, and got like 600 PSI. If you weight a third of the boxers mass... and only use 6 inches of travel to generate that much power... you are probably actually much more powerful, in comparison (Pound for Pound). Not to mention, that same Chinese dude, could have also have thrown a Longfist punch instead... and compared that to the boxers strikes. And... they also could have tested each fighters Short Range power generation potentials, against each other. Nothing was what it Seemed, as far as Results goes... due to bad testing methods.
According to Glen Levy... his first short range Fajin Hammerfist, actually broke the sensor that previously stood up to all of these artists strikes / kicks. They then installed a much stronger sensor... Likely the kind that are in Planes Black-Boxed, that can stand up to the forces of a Plane Crash. According to Glen, his strike created over 12,000 PSI. The show didnt want to reveal this to the Public masses... so instead, they said that his forces were the Equivalent of getting hit by a car moving at something like 60 mph (paraphrasing, as I cant recall the exact MPH / Wording).
Not to discredit the dudes kick. Obviously, very good power on it.
Reading the comments - where have you guys been for the past 20 years of online people ignorantly dismissing Taekwondo without seeing its good sides? I swear the internet has been so ignorantly hostile... have you all been in hiding or something?
We got a good group going here 😅
Steven Chee's Advanced TKD was my first love in martial arts, i also practiced Rhee TKD and another hybrid style called Yun Jung Do geared towards self defense. If you take a close look at the difference's in the TKD round kick and some turning kicks in it's different styles you will notice WTF tends to focus on speed with a slightly more vertical arc, where as your older styles tend to kick on more horizontal arc with a small jump with the foot on the supporting leg about an inch off the ground, it is very subtle but it's there and it helps generate a more powerful kick without loosing to much speed. Bren Foster also fought in Thailand having also trained in Muay Thai. And hats of to Joe Rogan for having two of the most powerful turning back kicks (it's not a spining back kick), and side kicks in the world. Yair Rodriguez is one of the most dynamic fighters in the UFC today.
"Never underestimate a system , because it's trendy or not". Thanks for this . Exactly what I've been thinking all the time. Trends come and go because we are on a shared martial arts journey together- we learn from each other, from other systems.. I started with taekwondo, aikido and still doing them along other arts. Taekwondo distance management and reflexes and aikido rolling are infact the only skills I have ever needed to protect myself.
OOHHH I cant wait to see your thoughts on taekwondo. I have a lot to say about how underappreciated and misapplied TKD is.
I gotta say man, you are the best Martial arts youtuber I know of.
Youre one of few people I have encountered who I can tell has managed to start attaining unity with the Spirit of Martial Arts.
I see martial arts as a Principality, that encompasses many many aspects of human existence, when you go deeper into its study. The hard sciences(physics etc.), philosophy, psychology, sociology, History, Human Geography and Anthropology, etc all have a place in martial arts. Martial Arts is this complex deep thing, that most people only scratch the surface of. and the few who go deeper, often do so at the expense of other avenues of their life.
Youre one of a few, who has been able to reach some level of "knowing" of that Spirit, and still be successful in other areas. Even more youve managed to make the study of that Spirit, something profitable for you.
Props to you man, you rock. keep doing what you do.
Really appreciate that. That’s the nicest comment I’ve ever gotten 😅 I’m motivated me to keep going 🙏🏼
If you'd seen the real deal "gold badge" (5th Dan and above) from 50 years ago, you'd be laughing at every other style. Those guys really COULD kill you with just their thumb
They were tkd guys?
@@inside_fighting better believe it. The 6th Dan who was the judge for my 1'st degree black belt test, March of 1973, Was standing in front of a 2x4 makawira board, hinged to the floor, about 4 ft high, big oil spring keeping it erect. He was chatting with my 5th Dan instructor and striking the rope-wrapped board with casual little palm down knife hand strikes. The board was going all the way to the floor, very noisy He moved away, still talking to Moon, Hyo Kun. I said to my buddy, "Watch THIS and stepped into the board, striking it with all my power and a knife hand. I of course meant to make a lot of noise and impress everyone. It went one THIRD of the way to the floor! Sheesh! It was like watching Eddie Hall fold up skillets with his bare hands. Such things should NOT be possible for human beings to accomplish! have you seen the guy who could poke holes in coconuts with just his forefinger? That should not be possible, either. but he did it, repeatedly on video with Guiness there to witness/record it.
th-cam.com/users/shortsdJIGE8CZKCA
pure boxing is not very useful in MMA. doesnt mean boxing is bad. TKD guys are the best kickers. Ive been in 10+ street fights. Always ends the same way. Hit and run KO. Even against 6 guys. Hit and run, KO them one at a time. no other martial art give that ability to stay at range and kill people with your body with a single move like TKD.
TKD offers distance as well as spacing and can give a fighter an edge as well as powerful kicks of course. it definitely adds to a fighters arsenal. There are a ton of TKD practitioners in MMA
I agree that the big issue with TKD is just finding a good school. I also think that if you're an MMA fighter looking to get some cool new skills, joining a class and spending 1 or 2 nights a week for years to learn it probably isn't the best way.
Getting private instruction from someone good is probably more worth your time.
Like the city kickboxing guys have with Van Roon in new Zealand. Worth looking into that guy.
I competed in WTF tournaments as a student and what I found was that with the electronic system, you have to fine tune your weight.
The electronic scoring system only registered a point of you hit their pad with your foot pad (which only covers the top of your foot) with enough force to register on their system. The amount of force needed to score depends on the weight class you're in.
I competed in -64, -68, and -74kg. Before the fight you test the system by doing some little kicks on the helmet and chest guard to make sure they are working. In my first year of uni I was at -64 and little taps would score points. In my 3rd year I competed again but I'd put on some size in the gym and was now walking around mid 70s. I didn't feel like cutting weight so I just went in at -74 and when it came time for the test hits I tried the little tap and nothing happening. So I hit it a little harder, still nothing. To score I actually needed to give it some at that weight, which makes sense cos it's 10kg up. That was the first time I realised that the weight class was going to make a big difference. At competitions like that it's not uncommon for there to be some weight classes with not with ppl so they merge them. That puts the lighter ppl at a big disadvantage cos now they have to hit hard enough to score on the heavier system.
But it's why the high level guys you watch at the Olympics now don't have to hit hard. They have fine tuned their weight to power ratio.
I guess it also makes sense for one day tournaments to avoid injuries and exhaustion.
I also fought a really great guy there who made me realise how different the levels were. He was a national team member for Cyprus but a guy who has never actually made the team to compete for them. And his mastery of distance control was like nothing I'd ever seen. Again, it played the system by moving in and out just enough that I couldn't cleanly land the top of my foot on him. Either just far out enough that I was landing with my toes and couldn't deliver the force I needed to score, or all the way in so that I was landing with my shin and not the foot pad.
Made me think how good Olympians must be.
If I'm going to combine the best martial arts, it would be the ff: TKD, Muay Thai, JKD, Pangamut, Wingchun, Boxing, Savate, capoeira and BZllan Jujitsu.
Can I suggest you read the book "A killing art the untold history of Tae Kwon Do" by Alex Gillis. This will tell you everything you need to know about the art. Its real background and the lie that is WTF/WT.
I would expect someone with your background to research a style and to not walk in blindly to any old school. I myself did this when I found two local and semi local Seidokaikan karate clubs. I knew that at some stage they were training Kyokushin. So I contacted the Seidokaikan HQ to which I was told the are NO clubs affiliated to them in Australia. These clubs were using their name and logo illegally.
Yes I also test out each class before attending. The guy I trained with here is very legit as a fighter and I saw his Muay Thai fights but the problem is that he doesn't have a grown up class really.
McGregor trained a lot of TKD when he was at his prime. Of course he mixed it with other all the other stuff he was excellent at. His instructor killed a guy in a street fight, went to prison and McGregor’s game changed after from what I can see.
Wow i didn’t know that
I’m sure Gunnar Nelson who is a Goju Ryu black belt had an impact too. His coach John Kavanagh was a black belt in Kenpo. A hybrid Karate, TKD, MT etc style that was following on from the framework Machida had laid down. I think injuries/lifestyle really were the nail in the coffin.
Who was that guy?
Was late last night and hadn’t watched the video before commenting. A lot of McGregor’s success came from this TKD training. He absolutely used it as a supplement to his training. I don’t know the full story but he trained at SBG and they used this particular TKD coach who was v well known in Dublin. I don’t know all the details but it’s absolutely a major part of his success. One question: I’d be concerned about injuries as a middle age gentleman, that said, this video has really got me thinking about training this. What would you say about that? Great vid by the way.
Mc Gregor lol. Hese stiff and weak. he was just bullying guys half his size.
I would say my favourite thing TKD teaches you is switching stances and being effective in both.
You learn to do everything on both sides which very few styles teach.
I trained taekwondo for seven years almost during the 90s during what you called it the old school taekwondo before moving to Muaythai and Kyokushin for the past 25 years. If I'll agree with something it will be that taekwondo really developes a unique kind of re action and distance cutting technique. Also it has a strong back turning kick which they call it Ti Chigi ( as an Oshiro mawashi in Kyokushin. I believe taekwondo overall started to go down and moved out from the martial arts dictionary after they joined the Olympics because the way of training has changed to be more like a flashy point system moving to be closer to sports than martial arts. In taekwondo barley they do conditioning training or at least some push-ups, unlike the way you train Muaythai or Kyokushin.
Thanks man for sharing all these valuable insights on martial arts.
Osu..
It’s crazy to know I’ve been training TKD for years and the way he analyzed the attributes in terms of kicking ability and it’s uniqueness I thought all styles that incorporate kicks knew how to do this lol 😆 I thought it was normal training to be that fast but I guess not. I always loved kicking styles and Jean Claude Van Damme 🎉thanks for the insight
The double kick is also one of my favourites. It works really well in other sports just cos it's so easy to set up and so unexpected. Japanese kickboxers are really great at it.
I used TKD (green belt) effectively at least three times in self-defense, in two out of three, knockdowns occured on first strike. First in rear attack, 180 degree reverse elbow to body (he was tall), and in an attack by two people at drinking party, sidekick to body sending guy across the room into corner on his behind (his friend backed off). Thirdly, multiple hammerfists/low block to break a clothesline of two guys's locked arms on top of an escalator at a mall. The explosiveness and strong technique of the art are more than most people can handle, even with a friend. We did lots of kicks and forms with discipline of technique, a little breaking, and almost no sparring. I suppose the training's effectiveness was in how it made you do a technique when the fight part of the fight or flight response occurs. When the bodies reaction to dangerous stress becomes a clean explosive technique under adrenaline, you become effective. This training produces a poor ring fighter, but can form an effective form of self defence. The basic hand movements (just like karate) have many applications, and are easily integrated with weapons, similar to the Dambe Boxing.
W conversion, w taekwondo movement
I've never heard of people hating TKD. That's too bad as a skilled TKD student has incredible range and power. They can knock you out at a distance where you think you are safe.
Would this opinion also extend to something like Tang Soo Do, which incorporates some of that kicking into a four limbed style?
Personally, I prefer ITF based Taekwondo, as they actually use their hands in sparring.
The Olympics has diluted WTF so much, that it's pointless to use 'em, even though they train many hand/elbow/arm techniques in general.
Would be interesting to see your opinion on ITF Taekwondo
I think people should do Taekwondo first and then add everything else.
This is the perfect time for you to check out Nextkd. They qre actually paying fighters there is no electronic chest gear like in the Olympics and foot fencing which creates chicken fighting is ILLEGAL. It's not perfect but its definitely an attempt to get back to yhe good tkd
Looks way closer to old school TKD for sure. Very cool
Martial arts as a religion is a bad thing. Martial arts as a process for learning a thing is completely different.
I do Wtf Taekwondo and my coach teaches us the old school way, like you said , its effectiveness is based on the coach you find. My coach also have trained the military
The problem with taekwondo is that no one is taught real taekwondo, or almost no one.
Real taekwondo has open hand and closed han technic. It also has takedowns, joint locks, sweeps, and standup grappling.
It has the exact same origin as Tang Soo Do. The difference is that it has been modified for more leg use.
Taekwondo has all the same technics as karate. So, the technica are there. The only thing needed is to teach it properly and seriously train thos technic.
Capoeria was the strongest. TkD was the fastest. The show was fight science.
The reality here is that it is an exception. That has always been the issue. I was fighting in tournaments in the 70s and tkd was done bareknuckle with punches to the head. The reality is it is too far from where it could be.
Joe Rogan did Taekwondo in the 90s he has footage of him knocking a guy out with a spinning back kick
Can you make a video on tkdd the military version of Taekwondo pls
A powerful tkd guy in i think mma setting is edward bahema
Not everyone hates TKD
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 it gets a lot of heat though
I wonder how many good martial artists started out in TKD, Judo or Karate, because they were the closest dojos. Perhaps TKD, Judo and Karate should be looked upon as the gateway drugs to a martial arts addiction.
Thank you so much for respecting these arts that get put down by closed minded idiots!!👊
🙏🏼 i like finding the good in these styles
I learned TKD from a kickboxer on a military base in the 80s. I supplemented with Wing Chun, Boxing and Judo and competed in open point tournaments. Point tournaments in the 80s were pretty high contact at the Brown and Black Belt levels.
TKD gave me all of the attributes you talked about. I was able to use my kicks in street fights. Once I had a guy try to start a fight and I just threw a lead roundhouse kick to his head and controlled so he felt the boot but didn’t hit him. He and his friends just walked away.
I’m not a TKD guy. I got my yellow belt as a kid but I think the kicks are impressive and if taught correctly is effective. There’s just no need for 360’s and stuff in real combat.
I started in karate and exiled to mma. I ended up gravitating towards boxing and my striking style these days is essentially out boxing with dextrous high kicks sprinkled inbetween combinations. TKD is the same thing, the kicks and dexterity you get from these traditional gi striking styles is unmatched. Great video
15:20 “It is fencing with your feet.”
I love that you brought that up because the fundamental kicks of TKD are indirectly from Savate which is French “foot fencing” that was developed in France partly because of the bans on dueling with swords. And these kicks were adopted into Shotokan Karate during the early 20th Centuries just as the Koreans where there to learn Shotokan and who later adapted it and created TKD
TKD then took the kicking aspect and dialed it up to OVER 9000!!!
To an extent but it's fundamentals are truly from Taekkyon
@@thedappermagician6905 It is not. All of the founders of the original kwans had background mainly from Shotokan Karate and some other Karate styles. There are no documentation that any of them trained Taekkyon extensively. However, as Taekkyon was considered korean, they created a mythology around it in order to legitimize Taekwondo as a uniquely korean sport. However, as someone who has trained both Shotokan Karate, Taekwondo and Taekyon, Taekkyon is way different from the other two.
Sorry, have to disagree here. The closest art to Taekwondo is Taekkyon. Taekwondo is a more practical version of Taekkyon or could even be considered v2.0. The kicks are all the same, a lot of circular and jumping motion combinations like the spinning round house, crescent kicks, and jumping side kicks. Not only that, it's the combination of these kicks that Taekwondo retains with it's explosive multi kick drives. Could the originators of Taekwondo have been influenced by other styles, certainly, but as in modernizing it and removing the fluff kind of way.
TKD is an upgrade side quest art . Years to upgrade your kicking instrument . Boxing / bJJ / wrestling / krav / Muay Thai / ……then …… after years of the above … upgrade your kicks
That’s exactly how i feel about it
The problem is, I don't think you can learn TKD kicks to a high level if you start past like 10. I started at 8 or 9 and saw so many people come in order and they can't ever quite get those hips
@@mikea7732 I’m in my 40s and able to pick them up. But i have a lifetime of martial arts
I pretty much always thought TKD was useless as well. I recently found out WTF is different than ITF. ITF seems fairly legit. I think WTF went the route of the Olympics and became commercialized. ITF never did that.
ITF uses their upper bodies a lot more too.
I've never had much time for Taekwondo, but my son is five years old, when he's six, I'm signing him up for classes. I consider it a sport, like Judo (my second choice). The main reason is that he is likely to get hit or kicked reasonably safely. I don't want him to get hit or kicked, but I don't want him to freeze if he ever gets hit when he's older. Modern Taekwondo is great for kids because they break things down to simple steps, six year olds don't have a huge attention span.
Pettis, Anderson Silva, so many champs started in TKD.
I earned 2nd Dan in ITF TKD back in '84 my junior year of high school. It took me 10 years of training. Then during my time in the Army at Ft Bragg I found a Tracy's Kenpo Dojo and learned that system. It took me 4 years to earn my 1st Dan in 1989 due to Army scheduling and field duties. Both styles complement each other. Now I train to keep the body fit.
13:06 the kick is called an AP chagi
I've use to spar a guy who has a black in Tae Kwon Do and has done a lot of Boxing. (Among several other arts.) A guy with both a Boxing and Tao kwon Do is hard to hit and hits really f***ing hard!
They go great together
Could taekwondo be boxing with the feet, while kyokushin is punching hard with the feet ?
Kyokushin also has devastating punches in my opinion and is a weird category of itself… it’s the tough man contest of the martial arts world.
Given that the head is a viable target, why don't they keep their hands up? Just curious. Does it kill the momentum of lower body movement? Is it an invitation to get your forearms messed up?
Yes very much so and they don’t believe in blocking in sport as much as moving out of the way. Same idea as boxers who play that game. I’m no fan of it and older tkd had higher hands
How could you say that TKD is not good fighting style when it works in the Octagon? Thug Rose Benson Henderson and others have used it effectively in the Octagon
I agree. Not sure why it gets so much hate. The mall schools for kids ruined it
Taekwondo the long lost brother of Boxing.
Front Kick = Ap Chagi
Side Kick = Yeop chagi
Roundkick = Ap Dollyo Chagi
More kicks below
Axe Kick = Jikeo Chagi
Skip Roundkick = Balbucheo ap dollyo chagi
Tornado Kick = Dolgae Chagi
Scissor Kick = Yeop Chagi
Turning Back Kick = Dwi Chagi
Hook Kick = Ap huryeo chagi
Spinning Hook Kick = Dwi dollyo chagi
Flying Side Kick = Dwio yeop chagi
I really enjoy my ITF TKD training. It keeps me in shape.
I thought the capoeira guy had the hardest kick. I think it was Martial science.
The e tkd guy beat him 😯
Props for being open minded, but I will never accept that sh!t lol. I had suspicions about TKD in high school when I, a young wrestler who also had done 6 months of Muay Thai, was able to wipe the earth with every black belt at my friends school. As a teenager! Then years later, when multiple TKD black belts came to our kali/silat class and found out everything they had learned pretty much doesn't work, one even cried hahaha!!! He was also a krav maga pracitioner, there's another worthless "art". The top black belt at another school came to our class because he admitted TKD was severely lacking.
I don’t disagree it’s a terrible base… but an amazing supplemental system. It develops really specific attributes.
@@inside_fighting Well for kicking, yes.
Taekwondo seems to be having a revival as folk finally cotton on to the difference between ITF and WTF (or WT as it's now known). Of course taekwondo is incomplete (it offers very little in the way of grappling or leg kicks). And of course it's generally practised as a polite church-hall (or mall) martial art (inclusive and non-threatening), rather than a bruising combat sport or rugged street self-defence system. But you'll find some interesting videos on TH-cam, yes, of taekwondokas caught out by hard-hitting combat sports practitioners, but also a few who can live with full-contact making muay thai look clumsy and limited.
Another video worth seeing is Sensei Seth's "What martial art hits hardest" - won by TKD!
To Elon, Inside Fighting: you said you lived in Portugal now. If you’re learning the language a really great read is Lyoto Machida’s `O código do dragao’. I could not find it in English for some reason so read it in Portuguese. It might spark another interest in you and/or another video. Your channel is awesome, keep up the great work.
I love TKD I wish I could afford the school I tried out, it gives you some OUTSTANDING weapons for the toolbox, currently doing boxing, I've done Karate Juijitsu and MMA ect🥊
I was a Taekwondo Instructor for about 2 1/2 years. I had to move on to a better paying job at the end of last year, but I had fun teaching. I always tried to make sure I taught the students the practical applications of the forms once I figured out what they were. The biggest issue with the system is that it is watered down and no longer cares much for practicality, but more for the sport of it.
The reason for this is the people training it don't want the practical side of it. They just want to have fun, which is fine. I once asked the advanced class (red, high red and bodan belts) if they would like me to teach them the application of a technique in Form 7, but everyone said no ;-;
I was so sad. . . but then I later told the application to one of the black belts and it blew his mind XD
This is sad to hear. I think thats the problem with the system
7:45 i would say Shotokan and point karate develop these skills in much more effective way than TKD.
15:15 i would say Savate fit this description much more.
But i would love to see the axe kick made more useful,at least for Andy Hug.
Reminds me of this concept,called Three Arm Boxing,where is like Full Contact Kickboxing,but you can only use one leg to kick,the other only for movement. Used as a skill building tool for distance management and technique,by reducing the number of variables.
The more I read the OLD-SCHOOL savate manuals (Charlemont's boxe francais specifically), the more in common with a lot of TKD there seems to be with even the basic stance built on the old "line of battle" concept from foil fencing, lots of stance changes, feints, foot-fencing, and attacking on the charge rather than the more-common advance-plant-kick we tend to see elsewhere. Real life has had me prioritizing elsewhere for a while, but I think it may be worth playing with some tkd friends a bit on tuesday to see what happens.
@@russmitchellmovement ay,peculiar seeing you here, would definetly enjoy hearing the take of a knowledgeable HEMA guy such as yourself. I am sure Ilan would definetly appreciate hearing about HEMA from you too. Maybe he would come to appreciate the Fokos too.
I went back to shotokan for fun, play boxing, rough housing.. We had a TKD / Hapkido well known teacher, just wanted to play round. We started doing playful sparing, and about few days some ground work.
Here is what happened. Our BJJ skills skyrocketed. Our Real sparing, was incredibly improved.. all cause we changed our approach to go 95% playful, and 5% hard cord.
TKD, BJJ, Hapkido, Daito Ryu Jiu Jitsu Aikijiujitsu..... in learning how to play instead of hard core sparing.... we jumped in level of ability to defend ourselves.
Well I'm a tkd guy so I'll be biased.
It was National Geographic that had that strongest kick challenge. Sensei Seth recently did a strongest martial arts techniques challenge too and tkd came out on top.
The problem is people only see the sparring. For Taekwondo gradings you are tested on way more than that.
You have traditional elements such as patterns and techniques demonstrations (including hand techniques) like Karate.
You break boards, and spar but you also perform self defense against strikes and grabs.
Now it's down to the teacher but these other areas are not pressure tested enough in my opinion.
The art does have all these parts, but rarely are they practiced effectively.
I've thought for a while that kyokushin plus WTF taekwondo would be a great combination. A very similar ruleset, but one specializes in fighting up close whereas the other specializes in fighting on the outside.
And taekwondo does have all the hand techniques you need, but they just don't use them in sparring. On one hand that's a shame, but on the other we got an elite kicking style out of it.
Yes definitely a bad ass combination. I have a friend who's a black belt in both.
@@inside_fighting I'm a tang soo do instructor. The master at my dojang was an old school taekwondo champion, and we do a lot of WTF style sparring. Cool guy, and good all around fighter.
I wanted to learn to use my hands a little better, so I did a year of boxing and it helped me out a lot, especially up close.
Now I'm analyzing kyokushin fighters and doing drills to try to steal tricks from them. Studying Kenji Midori in particular has proved useful, especially against taller guys.
There aren't any kyokushin schools nearby, but I would like to maybe test for rank in kyokushin one day.
I think that point karate is better for self defense than kyokushin.
Purely cos it involves punches to the face. Kyokushin guys are tough as nails but I've seen too many videos of them fighting guys from other styles, getting touched in the face and just freaking out cos they've not trained to deal with it.
In the heat of the moment I think it's easier to add power to a point style than face punch defense to a style without it.
Moon said that once per year, the head of the Moo Duk Kwan association would personally test all of the gold-badge holders. (It's now called "Tang Soo Do") He had no time for anything but one test. They had to stand still, with their arms fully-outstretched vertically. Then he'd hit them as hard as he could across their abs, with the EDGE, 2" side of a long 2x4 board. IF they even GRUNTED, they lost their franchise to be the only one who was allowed to teach in a given area. They looked fat, but it was all muscle across their midsections. Moon was 5 foot 4" and 160 lbs and he could jump side-kick TWICE as far as me (after I'd trained for 9 months, 7 hours per week) I was 165 lbs, 6 ft tall. I saw him sweep the leg of a 6 ft, 240 lb man, like it was a broom stick. I couldnt budge the guy. I thought it was my bad technique! :-) Moon said, "Push, down, move" (my leg sideways). yes, that's all, along with being able to squat with 4x your bodyweight! SIMPLE , right?
Cool story. But only 7 hours per week? That was the main Difference / Reason why. That dude was likely training +4 hrs every single day. To reach Masterclass level results... the arts have to become a daily way of life. I trained in a few different arts. I was always throwing kicks, handstrikes, deflection techs...etc.. all throughout the entire day / night... no matter where I was, or what I was doing (even at work). Of course, I also had standard long session Block Training too. I probably threw like +2000 hand techs, and 1000 kicks, every day. By the end of a weeks time, thats a LOT of reps. I think I was training between 4 and + 8hrs, every day. I was pretty obsessed... and I didnt have any other hobbies / distractions.
I maintained that level of intensity and pace, for a solid 5 yrs, before easing up. Of course, once you fully master what you have learned... you no longer need to train as long.. as you just need to keep your tools Sharp.
That said, Ive never tried to sweep a dude. I just stop-kicked the Kneecap. Different arts, Different techniques.
Traditional TaeKwondo is VERY effective. It all depends on the instructor. EVERY martial art is more similar than it is different. Our TKD system (JidoKwan) has submissions, grappling, throws, sweeps and trips, blocks, AND self defense applications. Don't bash the Art, bash the way it's been watered down. I'm SO thankful my Grand Master thought outside the box. I teach REAL, EFFECTIVE TKD to adults! I teach the traditional system to kids. And yes, TKD does have spinning elbows. It's ALL in the Katas (forms), you just gotta' LOOK for it.
I've spent 1,5 year in taekwondo 12 years ago. My current Kudo trainer is very impressed with my kicks (even despite a decade long training pause). Yes, taekwondo is a great kicking school.
I agree. I would add there are two systems of tkd; the old ITF style has more techniques sweeps., stomps , hands. But it is a point system with roots to military and should not be underestimated. The speed of the wtf system Olympic produces great skillset of these skills. I think Nelson of combat wrestling under Paulson adds some footwork. There have been some good tkd instructors who add boxing like hee IL Cho from old days of full contact. Anyway thanks for your insights. Great video and opened my eyes
very glad you enjoyed it :)
Practicing ITF TKD before boxing gave me many advantages at boxing like better footwork and distance management and also quicker and more effective guard change, because in TKD we learn kicking/punching from both guards interchangeably. I see also another advantage for MMA kicking and it is instep kicking as opposed to shin kicking which conditions those delicate bones of feet (heel included) and also lengthens the kick's effective range. And let's not forget that other than Yair the most famous UFC ITF TKD practitioner was Mirko Crocop who practiced it in his youth before started kick boxing.
Sorry homeboy no bank account. After what Canadians did to there citizens. After closing there bank accounts.
I studied different martial arts...but when I was I attacked on the street it was Tae Kwon Do that saved my ass. The other stuff didn't work.
What worked for you? Most people say it's not effective for self defense.
@@inside_fighting TKD was the first martial art I did. Then I went on to Tai Chi, FMA, some Kung Fu styles...I was attacked in a store, the person pushing me violently. I tried "blending" with the energy as I was really into Tai Chi at the time. It totally did not work so I decided to get out of there and walked away down the street. The person ran after me and struck me several times across the back with a club. All of sudden, without thinking I started to do TKD roundhouse kicks. It seemed like I was almost above my body watching myself. I threw many kicks and my assailant was fiercely trying to block the kicks with his one empty hand the club but he could not touch any of them. Each one of my roundhouse kicks got through, slamming in their torso and legs. Then I knew it was enough and just walked away. I wasn't followed. It was like muscle memory took over of the many hours practicing TKD roundhouse kicks.
Yair"el pantera" Rodriguez from Mexico, UFC fighter like this video...
Do you know the book "A Killing Art?" It details the hard self-defense origins of the style.
I haven't heard of it but I am going to find it
@@inside_fighting It is great. It seems TKD was formulated as a "killing art" for the Korean military. Also interesting, is that Shotokan is the foundation of TKD (coupled with some Korean high kicking methods).
Tae Kwon Do has such a huge range of quality. Cause on the one hand ive beat alot if TKD ppl with ease. Even ones with higher belts ...but then you get those hardcore TKD guys and its downright scary. One guy at my gym will just fire low kicks with superb timing and tbh i havent found an answer for it. Oh also he had a 26 second first round KO win kicking a guy in the face 😂
Getting ready for the 30 minute video! 😂
I get your message, and it’s an important one, pick out what works for you and add it to your toolbox.
I device I have been going on for the majority of my life, not just for Martial Arts.
Israel Adesanya, Anderson Silva, Michael Venom Page and Rose Namahunes from UFC all started matial arts with Taekwondo
My buddy changed my mind on TKD. 😊
I think Taekwondo is a martial art that brilliantly translates the philosophy of boxing into kicks. When comparing boxing to Muay Thai, the characteristic of boxing is a hit-and-run style, while Muay Thai is a style of giving flesh and taking bones, while Taekwondo is a martial art that clearly pursues the boxing style. Unlike Muay Thai, kicking attacks in Taekwondo are performed simultaneously while moving, and hit-and-run movements are performed with highly mobile footwork.
I think it's natural for people's attention to turn to Taekwondo in a situation where Muay Thai-style footwork and kicking are weaknesses in MMA.
Im an ITF black belt and I agree with what you are saying here. TKD is a good art but its too specialised.
I study BJJ now and because ive got a good leg coordination from TKD and dexterity I'm very good at triangles.
Switched to full contact Karate years ago, but have a brief background in TKD. There is this idea that the only roundhouse kick TKD has, is the more snappy approach that you see extensively in modern WTF rules that favor that approach to kicking. Hell that's all I was taught, and my old dojang was more akin to ITF like rules than WTF rules.
All these older school clips you show, clearly demonstrates these older TKD guys know how to use their hips for power generation just like anyone else.
I wish leg kicks were apart of their regular curriculum though. That one simple addition, whilst putting aside all the modern BS, would create an awesome combat sport with a ton of value. As you said, TKD ideally, is boxing with your feet, but unfortunately, has a lot of nonsense getting in the way of it being that universally.
Many MMA / UFC training places... Teach TKD / Karate style kicks. HOWEVER... what they did NOT bring with them, is the Special ATTRIBUTE training, that makes the kicks: Faster, Stronger, more Accurate, More Precise, and developing more Endurance. A single example, is TKD use of SLOW extension and retraction of the Leg, in the middle of the air. This develops your leg muscles to a much greater level of strength... and thus, you gain much greater control and precision, as a result. Its easy to allow Speed and Momentum to do most of the work... but without slow motion training... your kicks wont be half as powerful.. nor will you have a fraction of the Endurance, while in a match.
MMA / UFC Fighters are notorious for pretty slow, telegraphed, and sloppy kicks. While even sloppy techniques can land with enough power to do damages / KOs... a lot of times, this can lead to kicks being Evaded, Caught, and or Countered... as well as potentially Missing the OP, and or Landing with far less power potentials.
The UFC / MMA training mindset, was to learn and develop as many effective techniques.. as Quickly as possible. The only part of their training that they invest a Disproportionate amount of Extended time and effort into.. is in BJJ (Grappling). Which, in the sport context, makes sense... As being able to remain standing while sparring / fighting... takes a Lot more Skill, than many of these fighters had the time to develop. As such, they initially got taken down fairly easily... and so most of the time, they were on the Floor, rolling around, grappling. Over the many years forwards... the fighters started to get much better at resisting and preventing takedowns. As such, striking is now becoming a stronger Focus, than it initially started out.
While some of these guys have spent some time trying to learn from other arts, mid-career... The problem is still a matter of Time and Efforts. You cant take a few Wing Chun classes, and then, think you are going to be able to use these things, in the Ring. It takes a lot of time and efforts, to reach a level of Mastery of them. Also, you need to develop your bodys Attributes up properly, to have effective potentials. If your Handstrikes are too slow.. or.. you lack short range power to KO... then your Wing Chun strikes are not going to be very effective, even IF your FORM is spot on. Of course, WC's main challenge, would be in learning the many Deflection Techniques... and developing Simultaneous Dual-Arm Coordination, with these Techs. Many hours worth of In-Air Movements, and Then Partner Drills... are required. And then you still have to Learn and Master applying them under pressure, in a sparring / fighting environment.
A Masterclass level TKD kicker.. can be a nightmare to get anywhere within striking distance of... without the potential of getting a KO kick, or some broken ribs. Ive sparred against many TKD fighters that were pretty easy to get in and defeat... but One TKD fighter in particular.. was a Beast of a Fighter... and gave me a Real challenge to get close too.
The main issue with Modern TKD, is the lack of Iron Bone Conditioning.. as well as the Sportized Rules, the do not allow kicks below the Waist. That said, if you were learning TKD... there is nothing stopping you from doing Shin Conditioning (and or full Iron Body conditioning).. as well as learning how to target and kick the OPs legs.
I will also say, the other issue tends to be the use of too many Forms. Certain arts forms, are very beneficial to the development of the Artist, and the Preservation of the Arts methods. But some of the modern sportized arts... often created more forms.. as a way to get more money from students (from a lot of paid "Testing" events). These often use the same techniques over and over again... but just use different arrangements. Not much, if anything, NEW... is being learned / trained, from one form to the next.
My ex was a tkd national champ (cyprus) and went to various world n european comps, doing very well. She was around 85 kg. I fought semi pro in muay thai n k1. She landed headkicks on me regularly. God damn, the pro men i sparred couldn't and she could. Of course all of this would go south once we were using hands to sparr as she didn't know how to box, but there are some dangerous kicks u SHOULDN'T eat.
Spinning back kick, side kick and the flamingo stance which would be a combo of a hook, axe, side, or roundhouse kick. Better off just close the distance clinch and ur safe, instead of exchanging kicks.
People need to understand that there is alot of messy politics in Taekwondo which stemmed from and was brought about by the North/South Korea split.
The gyst of the messy politics is that the founder of Taekwondo General Choi Hong Hi was a native North Korean but served the South Korean Army during the war. However he didn’t want politics to be involved in the system he created, so decades after the ceasefire, he had no qualms traveling to North Korea to teach TKD to North Korea. That ruffled alot of feathers in South Korea and caused him to be practically banished from the South. But the South government didn’t want to do away with his system he created so they created WTF to snub him. And the rest is history.
This video was talking about “old school” taekwondo but is really referring to old school WTF. True old school style is ITF taekwondo (the style that General Choi, which was coined after the SK government snubbed him), and yes, there is an even older school style than ITF but that was when Taekwondo was one system just like at the height of Roman Christiandom Christianity was a single catholic church.
ITF supporters would say ITF is the true form of TKD in its originality and WTF is responsible for the mockery of TKD today.
WTF supporters would say ITF doesn’t evolve and the content of what’s taught in ITF is the exact same techniques founder Choi Hong Hi taught back in the 50’s, 60’s, & 70’s.
Obviously, the centrist take on this would be that it would be most ideal for ITF & WTF to be one single catholic Taekwondo system.
More to Tae Kwon Do than your Olympic style sparring. If you look at the Poomsae s you'll find elbows. But nobody trains elbows,let alone spars with them. Then we have the self defense techniques. Fight Science is the channel, Bren Foster is the T.K.D. stylist.