@@spider-manunknown9193 Eh, just being a comic writer doesn't make a story better. After all, One More Day and Sins Past were written by comic book writers as well.
As much as i liked No Way Home, i have to admit, the first half of No Way Home wasn't great, it just felt the same as the other 2 movies, but than when Peter's Spider sense goes off, it feels like a completely different movie
As bad as No Way Home's script is, Willem Dafoe absolutely killed it with his performance. He hadn't been Green Goblin for decades yet was just as good as before.
@@DavidAndrews-kh8uv I even feel he was dumbed down in the first movie. The trailer for the first movie was so much better than the actual movie but then Feige had Dan Harmon rewrite the movie.
Dr. Strange: Hey Peter how about you take 5 minutes you give me a list of people who you want to remmeber your identity? Peter: Got it Mr. Strange. *Movie over*
@@s.k.4289 Strange won't even listen to peter's list. He isn't the type of guy to spoil a kid lol. He would just reset it and say that it's what he deserves for not being careful
No Way Home truly feels like a first draft script that was forced to be the final draft. It’s honestly tragic because with more work put into the writing I think it could’ve been really good.
NWH wasn’t meant to be a multiverse movie, the original intend was to have kraven as the main villain and there’s even a leaked early script about it I believe, then they decided for the multiverse story because of fan outcry.
@@sonnypark124Yeah I used to cover MCU Spider-Man news and Jon Watts talked so much about how Kraven could tie with the ending of FFH The multiverse plot was definitely added after Marvel and Sony signed a new deal and the latter greenlit the Kraven film
My issue will always be, we saw that the people saw Mysterio at the center of the drone attack when the hologram illusion went down, they actively saw Spider-Man protecting them from the drones and destroying them, they saw that the illusions were very convincing, how could the most sane person believe a word from Mysterio? Plus its been a week, how did no one ever came to the idea of naming Mysterio as the reason the attacks even happened?
That's a good point, I just know how human nature works and they would dismiss that for the more scandalous option, but unless SHIELD actively tried to suppress it, there would be tons of physical evidence connecting Mysterio to the drones.
Well, considering that we are pretty much living the idiocracy movie in real time, it's not hard to believe, at all, that a huge portion of people would be dumb enough to fall for it.
On the note of Dr. Strange being out of character, anyone remember the theory before NWH released that Dr. Strange was actually Mephisto in this movie? That's how bad it was 😭
Stans will make claims like "Um ackshually it's probably Mephisto doing this as a trick" and then when the movie comes out they change on a dime to say "This isn't out of character at all". I can't stand their Olympic level of being disingenuous.
I feel like sandman could have worked in this film since when he first shows up, he helps Peter beat electro. Have sandman remain as an ally for the rest of the film, trying to convince the other villains to take this second chance but when green goblin takes over Norman, have Norman kill sandman by using his pumpkin bomb to superheat him into glass (kind of like how he died in spectacular Spider-Man). This would not only raise the stakes but also show how much of a threat Goblin is
I think you forgot the fact that Electro shouldn't even be in the movie , considering that he doesn't actually know that Peter is Spider-Man. In TASM2 , he never found out Peter's identity, considering that he never ever heard of the name Peter Parker. Also, literally says that he tought Spider-Man was black. It's pretty obvious that he has no f-ing idea who Peter is. Considering that the spell brings from around the multiverse ''everyone who knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man'', it should be impossible for Electro to appear nice vid btw
While FFH is to me worse than this one, putting this and by extension ALL of the Holland movies next to the Soider-Verse movies really shows how undercooked the MCU home trilogy actually was
I feel so vindicated 😭 i felt like i watched a different movie as everyone else was praising it as if the only saving grace of this movie wasnt just the gimmick of 3 spiderman and everything else was just a clusterfuck to make that happen😭😭😭
Nah. Nostalgia bait that actually served a purpose to the plot, realistically the entire Home trilogy was all equally as good compared to one another. This one just spoon fed fans everything they wanted so it’s “better” in their eyes when in reality they are all very good movies that tell a complete story as a trilogy. Non of the home trilogy IMO work without each other and that’s what makes it great. Holland’s story arc was incredible and he lost basically everything in order to save the villains trying to kill him… Tobey and Andrew coming back and helping Tom on his journey while satisfying their original characters… It just feels very Spider-Man. The best thing MCU’s done since Infinity War/Endgame.
@@kiwiangeldust6912 nah i loved far from home but I feel like most of the hype for this movie is because of being a first of its kind but if we rate this movie on just the story and plot it tries to tell us, the rating would be very low. Although it was very fun seeing characters from previous franchises come back in this movie how we got there felt very forced and kinda dumb. Peter wants to change the fabric of reality to fix his life and lives of people around him which is although a drastic solution to his problem ill give it a pass, but strange knowing how delicate the spell is and how it would be effecting the mind of every person on earth decides not to have a 2 min conversation with peter to tell him exactly whats gonna happen but decides to do it while casting the spell was just a big dumb move on his part not to mention he blames peter afterwards for the screw up, really Strange ? Your lack of communication skills is what caused the mess not peter. I dont know why the fallout from Loki wasnt the driving force behind the start of this multiversal event, especially since this movie is one of the first ones to happen after the ending of Loki where we can see glimpses of the monumental consequences of that show with slight multiverse tears where the characters that appear in no way home slip through. I guess we'd need to explain why only spiderman characters are slipping through but im sure something could be made up, into the spiderverse had a more natural way of introducing these multiversal characters without making the main heroes look dumb and wreckless. And my second gripe with this movie is the dumb decision Peter makes by bringing 5 unstable superpowered villains from a bunker type of space to an appartement in a public building in the middle of the city to cure them, sure the idea of curing them and helping them seems flawed since some of them like doc oc are gonna die regardless and their are infinite versions of each one of these characters that die or live in other universes but i understand Peter wanting to help them since these are concrete people to him that hes met talked to and sympathised with, but him deciding to bring them to Happys apartement instead of taking that stark box to stranges lair to help them has got to be one of the dumbest decisions Peter couldve made. He chose to bring 5 volatile super powered unstable villains to an appartement where he had to keep an eye on all of them as they walk around the place with anything ready to set them off and have them run a muk in a place where not only his very none superpowered aunt lives but also other civilians in the building. He chose to do that, instead of just taking that stark tech to stranges bunker where each villain is imprisoned in their own cell where they can stay put no matter what sets them off and even if they manage to escape there would be wizards around like wong ready to get things under control should the worse happen. Im sorry but that choice he made was the complete opposite of being responsible and aunt May dying is completely Peter's fault as tragic as that might be. And dont tell me he couldnt move the stark tech because the fbi was looking for it i bet its so much easier moving that tech without anyone noticing than having to move 5 dangerous superpowered villains especially when one of them is a giant lizard that looks like a dinosaur. And strange didnt come back until the end of the movie so peter had all the time in the world to fix them without worrying he might be interrupted. Ned having magic is just a copout to force the plot to move along again as well, just outta nowhere Ned is able to do stuff that took Strange months of grueling training to accomplish. The ending also had that it was all a dream type of feel, it just felt that not only did it revert things to the status quo it reverted to even less than that, the ending of far from home was a pretty cool game changer for this franchise and having that massive plot shift get redconned by just having everyone forget it feels pretty cheap and a let down. And dont most of the avengers know who spiderman is ? Cant he just go back to Dr. Strange as spiderman then unmask and then tell him everything that happened ? I mean presumably the spell wont effect stranges trust in spiderman, he'll just forget who peter parker is and who is under the spiderman mask, but if spiderman tells him what happened and he tells him about the spell that caused it, just makes this whole spell feel very flimsy and can be easily broken i dont know. Its just bizarre that a movie with such an amazing premise can have such a forced and inconsistent plot that drags it down like it did, and i expected something more interesting, clever and creative to lead to toby and andrew being part of this.
One thing i REALLY dislike is that now MCU Peter will probably never encounter the MCU versions of villains like Green Goblin and Doc Ock, at least for several years. Just think about it, two of the most iconic and popular villains in the Spider-Man rogues gallery will probably not even appear in the MCU, they were just shortly borrowed from other universes and other Spider-Men. And oh God i fear that the same will happen with Tom Hardy's Venom. Instead of getting to meet the MCU Eddie Brock and have him and Peter develop their rivalry, they just do another multiversal crossover and have 2 guys who never even met fight each other. I have hope that one of the next Avengers movie will introduce MCU Norman as some sort of benefactor to the Avengers, with Peter being the only one who suspects him because of the events of NWH, starting their rivalry for the next solo movie, but i also don't know for how long the MCU will go on without a reboot of some kind.
@chaserseven2886 It's sort of a mixed bag - It's a goof thing in that the other rogues get their time to shine, but also the MCU is supposed to be the definitive version of these characters so having a Peter who doesn't have his own Osborne/Ock just doesn't feel right.
I wouldn't say Green Goblin wants to stick in the MCU to doom himself exactly. Now, you address the parallels between SM1 and NWH Goblin, but lets just assume that this is the version of the goblin that we are gonna get for this film. My personal belief for Goblin staying in the MCU is due to the "Goblin persona" being tied into a no-win scenario: 1. Get sent back home to die 2. Stay and get "cured" which will result in death For the first one, the Goblin has just been told that he will die later on in the timeline. And to further add it, the magic man who teleported Norman into a cell, and proves to Norman that magic exists is saying things like: "It's their fate." Imply the lack of agency to change this fact. So that adds the possibility their memories get erased when sent back to add up with Stranges' comments. So Goblin has reasonable worry about being sent back. Now, if Norman stays in the MCU, He risks being cured of his Goblin-ism, which means the Goblin dies again. Now you could argue that he could fight against this (which he does). But then your point about his lack of resources and infinite metahumans puts a cap on Norman being able to be stable in the MCU. So, I interpret the Goblin's actions as a bit of a hail mary. Think of it as: "If I'm gonna die, I'm bringing you down into the dirt with me" I think it's at least a semi-consistent reasoning for his motives in NWH. But then again, I do love this film (second favorite), so maybe i'm just trippin☠️
S.K. never said that Goblin WANTS to doom himself. He was arguing that will doom himself if he stays in the MCU and doesn't realise it, even tho he should.
@vaggos2003 but that's because it would be besides the point for him. It's either go home and risk predetermined death. Or stay alive in the MCU and try to ethically cripple your biggest enemy. I feel like Norman would know he is outnumbered in the MCU the moment Doctor Strange showed up.
@@KrypticSpiderMan Considering that Norman knows how he dies and could from his POV use that knowledge to save himself. The idea that Goblin would want to ethocally corrupt hos mortal enemy becomes less compelling once you realise that this Spider-man is not his mortal enemy, just an alternate version of him.
@vaggos2003 Norman has plausible reason to believe it might not be that way. Doctor Strange (prior to pressing the button) goes on some tangent about how "it's their fate to die" and that "that's how it has to turn out". Which paints a picture that this is a fix part of his life now. Especially since the other villains clarify that from their POV, Norman's death is a fact of the past. Now this doesn't have to be objectively true, but the point is that Norman/Goblin doesn't know that, so he can't be certain he will have agency in changing what is "technically written down by the other villains logic and the wizard's fatalistic statements" Yeah, Tom is not Tobey, but he is also trying to kill the "goblin persona" which is a threat to its life. So it's still gonna want to take out this Spider-Man, especially since he doesn't even know if he will see his again.
I felt the whole insta reform was a cop out but my biggest issue is how they had to once again dumb Peter down to get the plot rolling You'd think after mysterio he'd be a little less naive and not just bring the powered individuals he knows at the very least might haves gripe with him for being killed by a alternative version. Instead hes wreckless and idiotic enough to put his aunt and the people of that building in harms way.
I love how, Every Tom Holland movie has the opposite reaction of Andrew's. Like, Andrew's were hated at first but became "Cult classics". Tom's were loved at first, But started the be looked down upon as time passed 😂😂
@@CaptainRex767 Then we would have 2 goblins in the same movie , no thanks and beside that he wasn't a good goblin anyway , they probably wanted to have one villain from each movie so they had to use electro but they didn't even bother explaining how he knew peter is Spider-Man
I think a bad thing about the movie as well as the far from home is that spiderman isnt being spiderman in any of them. Hes not saving the little guy, he made the plot happen he worsened the story and out of everyone he saves that he himself didnt put in danger are his friends. At least amazing spidermna 2 had the montage of peter helping people the closest thing we had for that was a couple deleted scenes from no way home and far from home but thats not enough.
Besides a nostalgia high the movie makes next to no sense and this movie character assassinates dr strange, Peter, sandman and lizard. Also this dialogue was made for nostalgia alone and it makes the movie flow weirdly
@@Logan_w1012 Nah it made sense which is why many really liked it, it didn't though, Peter made a mistake and tried to make up for it and wanted to not kill the villians that's all in character for him really, Strange act in character too, and with the version of Sandman they have of course he wouldn't trust Spider Man yet, and Lizard? I mean...he is resourceful he could probably figure out a way to keep himself as a lizard quickly.
@@Logan_w1012Nah. Not only does it respect Tom’s arc in the pst of the MCU, it takes away EVERYTHING he has through the film. First he loses his connection to Stark Industries. Then his nanotech suit. Then he loses Aunt May, and in the end, he loses all of the love and friendship he has built up with the people around him. It respects where the character came from, and still puts him in a situation closer to the comic character and status quo. And on top of it all, the effects, the action and the music just HITS.
I honestly agree its my least favorite of all the live action films. Just because the other spider-men return really doesn’t mean shit. The spider-verse films had cameos and it still was good because it wasn’t the sole focus and it doesn’t feel cheap and exploitative.
@@s.k.4289 i honestly thought i was crazy for thinking this movie was bad lol. This is the only video that shares my opinion, so thanks for that and you’re ‘spiderverse bad’ review introduced me to your channel and you make good videos. Props for you to doing things to like and i hope you earn more subscribers because you deserve it.
Exactly. From day 1 it just felt exploitative to me which is why I felt nothing for their return. Spiderverse actually integrates characters from other universes properly and in a way that supports the story. *That's* what should make it exciting.
@@vaggos2003 This video gave me a new insight into NWH I never thought of before. It's a poorly executed theme of second chances, which I thought was the film's best part. It was done quickly and easily, making Tom's Peter look too immature for Spider-Man. Also, I never realized Strange's spell could've been used to make everyone forget who Spider-Man is, not Peter Parker. This causes his sacrifice to be unnecessary and Peter to become stupider. But it's the thought that counts, I guess. 🤷This video reinforces that the *Home* trilogy is a mixed bag. It's fun but only memorable in Tobey & Andrew. It should've been an *Edge of Spider-Geddon* crossover rather than MCU Spider-Man 3.
It's completely carried by the final act. Its just stupid out of character decision after stupid out of character decisions until Tobey and Andrew show up and then you're so hyped up that you forget about the stupid out of character decisions that lead you to the peak
Nah. Holland’s story arc was incredible and he lost basically everything in order to save the villains trying to kill him… Tobey and Andrew coming back and helping Tom on his journey while satisfying their original characters… It just feels very Spider-Man. The best thing MCU’s done since Infinity War/Endgame.
@@kiwiangeldust6912 Like I said. Carried by the final act, and while his arc, ignoring the poor writing that lead to it, is great. You can't ignore that poor writing and character assassination lead to it.
But how can you enjoy it when everything else leading up to it is so poorly done? Doesn't it take away any impact the final act should have as it's supposed to be the culmination of everything the movie had set up thus far? It's like taking a cake, only liking the frosting but still saying "That was a good cake!". Like, all the ingredients are supposed to go together. That's what's supposed to give the final act its impact wouldn’t you say? Because at that point it's like, what is the final act culminating? What is it tying together? It's left as just this.. isolated thing (and heck, even the final act itself had tons of inconsistency as this video pointed out). Not being hostile towards you or bashing you or anything like that. I just see so many people say things like this when the lapses of this film are brought up and I just don't get it. Like if you ask me, a cohesive story is what should support everything else. Not the other way around. That doesn't really sound like a movie at that point. Just a bunch of random stuff and then one part that was nice. Like, that doesn’t make it a good movie if you just disregard everything else.
@@anomaly395 Basically, the frosting was so good you filled yourself up on it, ditched the rest of the cake, and chose only to remember the frosting and completely forget about the poor quality cake it was attached to
Here's another thing about that bridge fight, if the other two Spiderman was already in the mcu at the time howcome they didn't run into the goblin while he's out there dropping bombs?
We can talk about plot and writing all we want. But something people don’t talk about is that visually, this movie looks fucking awful. Aside from the doctor strange vs Spiderman fight the way I would describe this movie is bland. It looks fucking lifeless. There is literally no one walking the streets at all.
@@s.k.4289Even some of the villain designs, even the practical ones, look dark and ugly. There are also some obvious moments of reused assets from the older movies due to the pandemic and some obvious areas where budget cuts were done. Also, how does Otto still have his glasses? He was brought in right after he lost them.
Honestly, it feels like as the years goes by, and Nostalgia Bias goes away, No Way Home starts to come down as the worst Spider-Man Movie yet... Which is kinda crazy how this trilogy is going.
The moment i heard that Chris McKenna and Erik Sommers were coming back to write Spider-Man 4 my hype for the film just died. These writers are the main reason why lot of people hated the bad characterization and writing of MCU Spider-Man. They have an obsession/fetish with regressing back his character development in each film. And i absolutely don't like how they write side characters as one dimensional Disney Channel soulless gags. The fact that Zendaya is also returning gives me the feeling that they will totally screw up the ending of NWH, and the worst part is...Sony is forcing the multiverse in the movie to compensate for their recent flops such as Madame Web. Spider-Man 4 is freaking doomed.
I Forget to mention Doctor Strange should be able to solo all the villains of the movie alone, but instead he is defeat by spider man and Green Goblin 😮💨😥
Remember the end credit from Homecoming that set up Michael Mando as the future villain Scorpion? If you forget about that, don’t worry. Marvel forgets about that as well.
@@s.k.4289 Also remember William? That guy who got yelled at by Obadiah Stane and later used a USB to send the info about Peter to Daily Bugle? Yeah, he never showed up, let alone being mentioned again. In fact, the entirety of Mysterio’s crew got away with their crimes because Marvel just abandoned this plot point just to bring back fan service legacy characters.
The movie had already started badly when in the first 10 minutes it doesn't want to risk answering whether Quentin Beck is still alive or openly confirming that his body was found, nor is there any mention or reference to the team of people who worked on Project Mysterio, who were able to take the drone's software (something that can be seen at minute 1:44:20 of Far From Home). Another problem I see is that the amalgamation of ideas made the movie turn out disastrously in its concept. What real consequences could there be now that everyone knows his identity? Only media attacks and rejection from people close or known to him? I doubt it will stay that mild, considering that Peter has put behind bars guys like Mac Gargan, the Manfredi family (extra scene considered canon nowadays), Herman Schultz, Tinkerer or the many small-time criminals he stopped in his first 6 months as a vigilante or who he fights between the events of each film, not to mention that Mysterio's assistants are still there who could perfectly want something against the wall-crawler for ruining all their work. All those people would at least try to use contacts or hitmen to make Peter suffer, either by attempting against his aunt's life, against his friends or against himself. There's one scene where this could have been perfectly played out, the one where Peter walks to the institute with MJ and Ned while they're surrounded by reporters, police, fans and detractors... At that moment it was ideal for someone from the audience to get too close to the barrier or to Peter himself to say "Mac Gargan says hello, he says you owe him a new face", immediately after he would want to stab or shoot him and his friends, to which Peter would defend himself and knock him out, leaving everyone surprised by the situation while the agents arrive to arrest the individual, at that moment Peter would truly feel the tension, fear and disorder in his life, a scene that would have changed the context a lot.
4:13 & 45:20 There's also the fact that *Strange* was the one willingly changing the spell every time Peter requested something when he could've simply just told Peter no or close it entirely like you said (right after he just said how dangerous it was). All Peter was doing was talking. I gotta say, 10/10 video. I already knew this movie had a lot of problems (I made a video about this too a while back which covered some of the same points, and I'm glad someone else noticed the same things), but you named so many other solid points that I didn't even realize. It's honestly hilarious how many consistency and general plot issues this movie has. It just goes to show the lack of care and thought that was put into it. It's sad that there's a lot of people who can't see that and still call the movie a masterpiece (unless they recognize them but just don't care in which case, fair enough). It really is nothing but a senseless fanservice film made solely in response to fan outcry on Tom's Spider-Man. Definitely tied with FFH as the worst Spider-Man movie for me.
Even as somebody who really enjoys the film I had issues with Strange’s characterization from Day 1. I guess I’m just more lenient on the issues since w know this film had to have a lot of rewrites on account of multiverse of madness getting delayed and the COVID restrictions. However i feel there’s an established reason as to why Strange didn’t fuse thre memory spell on Thanos. Loki establishes the TVA had become so paronoid if another Kang war coming they were pruning timelines that deviated enough. I imagine in many of those 4 million timelines Strange witnessed they defeated Thanos but they either lead to the TVA pruning the sacred timeline. Or Strange had no idea if the heroes won because he died in those other timelines. And the first DS film esyvlaihses you can’t see events past your death. Given the spell links to other dimensions I could see the memory spell either leading Kang to Earth-19999 or the TVA not willing to take the risk. The reason there was no pruning in NWH as by then He Who Remains had been killed and based on my estimation this was occuring simotaniusly with Season 2 hence why the loom was spiraling out of control Granted it’s still a characterization flaw at the end of the day, but I don’t think it retroactively ruins Infinity War and Endgame. But I’m curious if you think my explanation is well founded or coping (I’ll watch the rest of the video when I have more time
@@void_kitsune9381 I just disagree. In What If everyone was their recognizable MCU selves. If this were to make any sense and not just come off as a marketing gimmick, there would have been three Tom Hollands. In Multiverse of Madness, why is Benedict Dr. strange the whole time? I'll admit it was cool to see Andrew and Tobey, but they deserve their own sequels. Not to be relegated to the role of Memba berries. But that's just my opinion. If you want me to take the multiverse seriously, let's see Marvel have the balls to include Batman in their next film. Infinite possibilities, right?
@@void_kitsune9381 the latter is an opinion (that I agree with, btw) the former doesn't have anything to do with the fact that for some reason Peter Parker happens to have three versions spanning 30 years age difference and not the slightest resemblance to each other
You're cooking with this video. I really appreciate you giving credit to things marvel did right before, rather than dubking on all of the franchise due to one movies writing of a plot device (sling ring) or characters (dr strange).
I knew they'd struggle with the multiverse stuff as far back as far from home. When Mysterio and Peter brought it up I remember everyone being excited and I just had this feeling... wish I had been wrong. The infinity saga being so good, the fandom lapping everything up, and Disney and Marvel over saturating it all with shows all combined together really damaged the MCU. Still holding out hope though, I want it to get back on track cuz damn...2016-2019 MCU was peak
Thank you for bringing up the issue of none of the avengers reaching out for Peter! People always ask the question "Where are the Avengers?", but I never see anyone talk about how problematic that is for this movie. I'd go as far as to say this movie is "Where are the Avengers?" at its absolute worst.
i hope at least one person reads this in its entirety so we can talk in the comments… i watched this movie with my cousin when it came out and when we walked out of the theater i noticed we were both not talking about the movie… i asked him what he thought and he said “it was alright” and i think that perfectly sums up the movie… it was just “alright” and the only reason i say “alright” is because of toby and andrew… besides seeing them again, i think this was one of the worst written MCU movies to date… horrible dialogue and horrible character decisions. Here are some examples of the terrible writing. I know it’s peter’s movie but in wtf world does spider-man best doctor fucking strange, let alone in the goddamn mirror dimension. And how does spider-man win? by saying the word “math” you can tell they were trying to be like “yoo mathematics is cool bc spider-man said so and he’s spider-man” but it comes off as super forced and cringy bc wtf math did he even do?? he just said math as if math is its own thing and not several different theories and equations to solve different problems and come up with answers to everyday life don’t even get me started on ned suddenly being able to make portals on like his first try when it took strange (yk the sorcerer supreme) months to achieve the same thing. then he just says “i wish we can see peter” TWO TIMES and that’s how we’re introduced to these two spider-men whom we haven’t seen in YEARS…They just walk through a portal in MCU Ned Leads grandmothers dining room 💀 How about the fact that the last movie ended on a cliff hanger with masterio revealing his identity to the world and it gets solved OFF SCREEN after the movie spends 15 minutes making jokes about it. Like this should be a serious situation but ofc the mcu makes it all jokes with lines like “MJ are you gonna have his spider babies” There’s so many more but my last one i’ll write about is how fucked up the whole “everyone who knows peter parker is spider-man is coming here” thing… Electro had no idea who peter was. But he shows up as if he did, only to later say “i thought you were black” sooo did he know who he actually was or not?? And if Andrew and Toby showed up because they know they’re spider-man, then where tf are the millions of other spider-men? are there only 3 peter parker’s in the entire multiverse? Why did only 5 villains show up? And the rest show up later? THIS MOVIE HAS SO MANY PLOT HOLES I CAN NO LONGER ENJOY IT
The PERFECT example of why writing should be a film's primary focus. You can have awesome acting, brilliant music, fantastic special effects, but all of that means nothing when your writing is this bad. This film is a hardcore 1/10 for me. A tremendous failure
As someone who kind've liked this film, I agree. I'm not going to just sit here and act like its heavily carried by nostalgia and fan service, the writing for the Story as is Lazily written as the characters. But IMO TASM 2 will allways be the worst Spider-Man Movie for me.
Even I think No Way Home isn’t amazing as anyone else says. Although I think the movie’s good, it just has a lot of issues that keeps it away from being one of the best Spider-Man movies or even a masterpiece in my eyes.
i know we’re in an age of “but are they really villains 🥺” but it’s a whole other level of stupid when you bring back old villains directly just so you can say “omg looks they’re not thaaat bad they’re just troubled”
That's why deadpool and wolverine has better writing than no way home at least they're self aware on the multiverse plot, also i don't like mcu doctor strange cause they dumbed him down same as hulk.
I think what they were going for with this series of Spiderman films was that Peter had powers and wanted to help people because he was a good kid. The responsibility aspect was not something that this Peter was supposed to have thought about at the start of the series. Later, his motivation became about clout, being famous and looking up to famous people. In this film, the writers had him learn the iconic line because responsibility demands sacrifice. The problem is, this series story was set up to build up to the Avenger film effectively side-tracking Spiderman's growth in HIS films. EDIT: Saw the rest of the video and yes, that's what one of the writers says. It doesn't change the fact that he could be lying or trying to loosely connect the films together which is pretty poor story-telling. EDIT 2: Aaaand yes, he was lying. Lol BTW, that attack on Sneako was completely unwarranted. If you disagree with his views, then do so respectfully and tactfully. Otherwise all you are telling us is that you get triggered by petty internet squabble.
Want to point out, that we know the existence of Uncle Ben in the MCU through the Easter Egg of the initials on the suitcase that Peter uses in Far From Home.
@@s.k.4289considering how different this spider man is from others and has such a different history I don’t really mind For all we know Ben could have died early, or before the spider bite, or he could have has run away
Yeah, we don’t know anything about him or what he meant to Peter’s development. This is a problem since they skipped the origin for the reason that we know it already, but apparently this entire trilogy is now an origin despite putting deliberate references to him in Civil War, Homecoming, and Far From Home.
@@s.k.4289how is it going back on that?? Why do you think Peter says “yeah I know” to May when she said it to him?? Because he already heard it from Uncle Ben genius, and why Tom didn’t look confused when Tobey and Andrew also knew the line. Really tired of you Raimi meat riders being actively blissfully ignorant about Uncle Ben’s existence just because we don’t get a Raimi uncle Ben sad flash back panel 🙄 that moment ain’t even in the comics, because the line never even came from him, it came from the narrator 🙄
@@grenas1995And yet they still chose to repeat that which lessens the impact of Uncle Ben's death. Also, I don't see how Tom hearing Tobey and Andrew repeat that line should confuse him.
It seems as if the director of no way home had a poor understanding of the villains and there motivations which makes sense since those villains weren’t made by him.
This movie definitely had problems, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a lot of fun watching it. The beginning of the movie was kinda dumb and the writing could have been better, but I really enjoyed the action, visuals, and the return of the other Spider-Men and their previous villians was really cool and exciting. It was definitely a gimmick, but I just can't hate on something that brought me a lot of joy. For a movie that is basically a high budget nostalgia trip, I thought it was good overall. I also thought that TASM 2 was a lot worse, and I enjoyed watching this movie more than Far From Home. Good video overall.
You're right about doctor strange. But you could argue that no way home's version of Doc ock, goblin, electro, sandman, and lizard are alternate versions of rami and webbs version with similar backgrounds but different character arcs, such as the ones that you say they don't have. Maybe there's an alternative spiderman 2 doc ock that WAS being controlled by the tentacles and he became mentally ill as they kept corrupting him and so on.
Honestly, after the first Avengers movie (and maybe Winter Soldier, DEFINITELY after Civil War), every subsequent movie tends to make the ones that precede it worse/dumber. And the only good thing about this movie imo was seeing the other Spider-Men together. Everything else around it is garbage writing-wise. Homecoming was the only mcu Spider-Man movie that wasn't absurdly poorly written.
You ate this bro. I loved the movie when it came out, but during rewatches I started noticing major flaws and this video pointed out a thousand more. It really sucks that this movie was bogged down by bad writing choices.
The Sinister Six was teased since Homecoming, we got Vulture, Scorpion, Shocker, Mysterio who could VERY WELL return, there was also Chameleon etc. but instead they threw it all out the window and we got cheap fan service cash grab with recycled villains from other universes (probably the laziest way to use the multiverse) and three Spider-Men just because they were played by three different actors, but of course everyone loves it just because, well, as I already said it was fan service BUT nobody sees how it just ruined something that was ACTUALLY being teased Just because fans want things like crossovers it doesn't mean it's a good idea, but in this case, they did that, not because they care for the fans but because they care about their wallets There's a high chance this movie was written this was ONLY because animated Spiderverse was successful, though funny enough, the writers don't seem to understand WHY the animated Spiderverse was successful, it had many easter egss and fan service references but it didn't exclusively RELY on them to form its story, it had its own characters, its own story AND added tons of easter eggs and references, really, if Andrew and Tobey just appeared as a cameo in a similar way J. K. Simmons did (maybe a court room scene with Daredevil as Peter's lawyer and Andrew and Tobey sitting in the background), this would have already been way better. Spider-Man had many different adventures in the comics, but the movies SHOULD be more grounded and simpler, just Peter against the villains, using his skills to defeat them, not three Peters vs five villains. This movie was one huge nostalgia dumpster fire.
In all fairness, the movie's premise wouldn't work on a fundamental level unless we assume that each villain is coming from a separate universe, each with his own respective history with A Spider-Man, not THE Spider-Men we see. Yes, the garbage writing is inconsistent about this, but it couldn't even function at the most basic level otherwise. It also gives the writer some wiggle room to botch each villain's personality/motivation, which they went right ahead and did. Really drains the gravity of these "reappearances" when they aren't the same versions we've originally seen.
Homecoming and Far From Home worked because they did Vulture and Mysterio who weren’t done yet villains in a Spider-Man movie. The third film should have been about Kraven the Hunter hired to taken down Spider-Man for being a fugitive, and loosely adapts Kraven’s Last Hunt. Let’s be honest No Way Home would be nothing without Willem Dafoe returning as Sam Raimi’s Green Goblin.
1:29:36 It’s where he was stabbed at, that’s what should matter. If we can see it looks like Tobey was stabbed on his spinal cord, which was why he fell on his back, but since he’s not a regular human but a superhuman, he was clearly able to survive that.
why does no one mention how curing sandman screws over his daughter a lot more than if sandman kept his powers. Sandman atleast had a chance to potentially help more post SM3..now he doesn’t. I can see Sandman turning into a villain here if say he asked if he could bring his daughter over to get help and they said no.
@@s.k.4289 and Dock ock even has less chance of surviving than he already did now that he lost two tentacles. He was technically "cured" in Spider-Man 2 and still died anyway
@@s.k.4289 I would fault MCU peter and Tobey not knowing about his daughter as further assassination on Sandman. That is his #1 purpose and if he didnt hammer it home that him being cured would fuck over his daughter more that would be assassination. As for Tobey I’d say it would bleed a little to him to as he makes no effort to mention his daughter to the other Spider-Men when coming up with cures/trying to appeal to Sandman in the battle. Overall I hate the characterization of Sandman I just find it interesting how no one talks about Penny when bringing up his char assassination.
I agree with most points, especially how stupid it was to turn the trilogy into an origin. Civil War nailed him so it's sad and frustrating he had to go through this huge loop-around in his development. I also really hate that they basically turned Green Goblin into the Joker+Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. They really just didn't rewatch the Raimi movies. I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that the Spider-Men choose to spend hours curing the villains instead of sending them home, thus leaving innocent civilians at the mercy of their rampages the whole night. I don't buy the suggestion of using the sling ring to instantly teleport the villains one-by-one and gang up on them, because that would be built on an inconsistency of being able to summon people by name. I'd use it as an example of how plot holes can snowball, but not a valid solution. Also, Strange and Peter have no idea how the time travel rules work in regards to the spell so for all they know, making changes could decimate the space time continuum and cause all sorts of issues across the multiverse. It'd be funny if that's what Strange meant when he said, "It's their fate" and the whole grand calculus of the multiverse thing, because it makes Peter look even stupider. They don't know that time traveling through magic is the same as time traveling through the quantum realm, Strange admits they know little of the multiverse, and it's also not explained in the film. For all we know Norman was sent back and then just instantly got impaled by the glider, making everything hilariously pointless. I used to enjoy this movie, but I hate it. It's an ugly, rushed, terribly written fan-service mess.
This is what marvel had done , not by good story written characters with continuity in franchise or by some solo characters films, instead they were fixing problem like shit , NWH and dr strange MoM is great example of that, they are literally f*cking degrading theirs characters by managing others .
I hated this movie for how they made peter tough by ridiculous story with not properly dealing with problem. *-Stand against the case and proving your worth-* ❌ *Cast a spell to let world forget you* ✅
I am literally THE largest Sandman fan in the world, Guinness Book of World Records 2017 to be precise. I literally dress my children in Sandman stripe shirts and khaki pants. and pour sand all over myself when I use the toilet. I just wanted to say how thankful I am that someone understands that the Sandman trilogy is happening. I've already printed the tickets out in my mind. And I already have a locket buried in the sandbox my dog dumps in. I just reach in, grab and slowly exhale like Sandman did on SM3. All of my children, including my son are named Penny. Bye!
Spiderman No way home was an enjoyable movie to watch but a mess. I will admit you really cooked with this one S.K can't wait to see more especially Insomniac's Spiderman or the Spiderman lotus fanfilm or even the Venom movies. Keep it up ❤
@@s.k.4289 homecoming is kind of week tbh I hate that spiderman has all this unnecessary tech it's the worst movie of the trilogy 😒 No way home Far from home Homecoming Far from home was meant for peter to step out of Tony starks shadow No way home ellivates that and meant that spiderman can be spiderman without all of this tech
Jesus Christ, I might be late to this party, but THANK YOU for making this. Ever since the film's come out, I've said that it was quite weak, especially in its plot points and narrative. The plot holes and reliance on nostalgia made for quite a shocking watch. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only way to enjoy this film is to switch your brain off and just go with the flow. ANY questioning of the plot, and the film falls apart like a deck of cards. For example, WHICH Spider-Man would think that it's a good idea to bring in a bunch of super-abled, homicidal maniacs into his aunt's home and expect everything to be alright? May's death is on Peter's hands.
Spiderman just brings all the uncured still super evil villains to his HOUSE. They really couldn't come up with anything better to drive the plot forward? Spiderman is just a dumbass?
The moment they were like "don't kill goblin! He can be changed/forgiven!" Before getting almost killed by him ruined any possible message this movie could've had, especially after aunt's death
Honestly, given that Thomas Haden Church and Rhys Ifans weren't able to physically show up on set due to COVID protocols, it's the biggest explanation to the flaws regarding Sandman and Lizard in the movie (though it wouldn't hurt to at least make the characters better).
@@sonnypark124 Yes, they were. SK nitpicks about the powerscaling in this movie and, in all honestly, considering this is supposed to be a crossover movie, of coarse there is gotta be powerscaling issues and I don't mind them at all.
1:30 This also worsens when you realize Doctor Strange could've just opened a portal back to Earth. "Stark, can you get us home?" Then, he proceeds to let the very capable, so not PTSD-driven, Iron Man call the shots to fight Thanos one-on-one. Right.... Are we sure Strange lost the title of Sorcerer Supreme because of a technicality? Or was he just really bad at his job?
Homecoming was the best one and set up so much shit for the writers to follow up on yet they end the trilogy by pulling nostalgia bait out of other universes.
Your an amazing critic man…I’m not sure if every single thing you said is right because I can’t just believe everything you said without doing my own research but you gave so many interesting good well explained points. Also gotta love the editing in this video.
the rami goblin isn't trying to be like comic spidey or spectacular spidey where he is the one in control, and relishes it, he's more along the lines of the 90's spidey cartoon where norman had a split personality, the misguided norman osborn and the evil green goblin.
Norman is in control, the Goblin is a manifestation of what he wants and how he would act if he weren’t held back by social expectations. Norman was never scared of losing control and never saw a purpose for seeking help because he ultimately gets what he wants. There’s no disconnect there.
I strongly disagree with u its the best movie EVER and if theres any mad Spiderman movie its tasm2 they were milking peter for the story it was a hell of a mess
My head cannon is that dr.strange wasn’t dr.strange in this movie but mafisto disguised as strange. To me it helps explain why strange was so out of character in this movie and was directly contradicting his character development in previous movies
The movie would've been good if Peter David was on the credits as a writer.
@@kingkronos7862 Peter David is a good writer tho, the movie probably would have been better written since they have a comic writer writing it.
Real
@@spider-manunknown9193 Eh, just being a comic writer doesn't make a story better.
After all, One More Day and Sins Past were written by comic book writers as well.
@@vaggos2003 Yeah but not written by a good comic writer.
Peter davis has spoken
As much as i liked No Way Home, i have to admit, the first half of No Way Home wasn't great, it just felt the same as the other 2 movies, but than when Peter's Spider sense goes off, it feels like a completely different movie
I think even the first half got it‘s moments. It belongs to the better MCU movies in my opinion.
The fact this is only the fourth time in MCU thet Spidey Sense is wild. He's been in SIX MOVIES.
@@realkaygrandFacts
The same? It’s the only live action spiderman we saw him outed. It showed the consequences
@@mujiescomedy279 the beginning of the movie was really well done, but to me the rest felt like they were playing it off as a joke from time to time
As bad as No Way Home's script is, Willem Dafoe absolutely killed it with his performance. He hadn't been Green Goblin for decades yet was just as good as before.
Imo,I feel like they neutered him in the movie.
"Absolutely killed it" thats what happened to May
How picky must you be that Disney tried to fix sony’s mess and you said this is the worse straight up. wtf
“Spider-Man: No Way Home is the worst Spider-Man movie ever”
Spider-Man: Lotus: “allow me to introduce myself”
true
Far From Home: Hello there
You could argue Lotus was excluded on the basis that it was a fan-film and not official.
Real
@@vaggos2003 Facts
Dumbing down Doctor Strange for this movie was a straight up insult to the character
How would you feel if Peter told Doctor Strange to make the whole world forget about Mysterio ?
Agree
Oh really I got a copy of doctor strange into the multiverse of madness for you, you'll be surprised what they did to him in that
@@DavidAndrews-kh8uv I even feel he was dumbed down in the first movie. The trailer for the first movie was so much better than the actual movie but then Feige had Dan Harmon rewrite the movie.
kinda feel like they have been dumbing down the characters since after endgame
Dr. Strange: Hey Peter how about you take 5 minutes you give me a list of people who you want to remmeber your identity?
Peter: Got it Mr. Strange.
*Movie over*
Exactly lol
Yeah lol
Strange is such a great Character, this movie assinated him into a joke
@@s.k.4289 Strange won't even listen to peter's list. He isn't the type of guy to spoil a kid lol. He would just reset it and say that it's what he deserves for not being careful
No Way Home truly feels like a first draft script that was forced to be the final draft. It’s honestly tragic because with more work put into the writing I think it could’ve been really good.
💯
NWH wasn’t meant to be a multiverse movie, the original intend was to have kraven as the main villain and there’s even a leaked early script about it I believe, then they decided for the multiverse story because of fan outcry.
@@sonnypark124Yeah I used to cover MCU Spider-Man news and Jon Watts talked so much about how Kraven could tie with the ending of FFH
The multiverse plot was definitely added after Marvel and Sony signed a new deal and the latter greenlit the Kraven film
@@sonnypark124Yup I knew that actually
And tasm 2 and Spider-Man 3 don’t? Lmao whack
I can’t wait for Spider-Man: I have your home address
💀
Spider-Man: Homeless
funny guy😶
@@mr.punisher5100My favorite movie
My issue will always be, we saw that the people saw Mysterio at the center of the drone attack when the hologram illusion went down, they actively saw Spider-Man protecting them from the drones and destroying them, they saw that the illusions were very convincing, how could the most sane person believe a word from Mysterio? Plus its been a week, how did no one ever came to the idea of naming Mysterio as the reason the attacks even happened?
Exactly
That's a good point, I just know how human nature works and they would dismiss that for the more scandalous option, but unless SHIELD actively tried to suppress it, there would be tons of physical evidence connecting Mysterio to the drones.
Well, considering that we are pretty much living the idiocracy movie in real time, it's not hard to believe, at all, that a huge portion of people would be dumb enough to fall for it.
Peter: “yes I want everyone to forget that I’m Spider-Man”
Strange: “fine but don’t change your mind”
Peter: WAIT WAITTT WAITTT
Peter: I HAVE A NOTIFICATION ON DISCORD HOLD ON!
Doctor Strange has pretty much become one of 2 things
a) Deus Ex Machina
b) the most useless twat in cinematic history
Out of curiosity do you think it’s possible to rerailhim or he’s too far gone
Doctor Strange was way too nerfed in this movie kkkkkk
Most useless?
Ned: hold my beer
@HippoBoy999 what? ned is the goat 🐐
@@peacoveNo he was pretty pointless tbh
On the note of Dr. Strange being out of character, anyone remember the theory before NWH released that Dr. Strange was actually Mephisto in this movie? That's how bad it was 😭
Lmfao
Oh, God, the parallels to One More Day are increasing.
Does anyone else renember when this movie was remembered as "One More Day, but actually good"?
Stans will make claims like "Um ackshually it's probably Mephisto doing this as a trick" and then when the movie comes out they change on a dime to say "This isn't out of character at all".
I can't stand their Olympic level of being disingenuous.
I hate what they did with Sandman so much
Why? They were 100% loyal to the backstory he was given in SM3
I feel like sandman could have worked in this film since when he first shows up, he helps Peter beat electro. Have sandman remain as an ally for the rest of the film, trying to convince the other villains to take this second chance but when green goblin takes over Norman, have Norman kill sandman by using his pumpkin bomb to superheat him into glass (kind of like how he died in spectacular Spider-Man). This would not only raise the stakes but also show how much of a threat Goblin is
Agree, but either way plotwise makes no sense sandman being a villain because he redimed is spider man 3
I think you forgot the fact that Electro shouldn't even be in the movie , considering that he doesn't actually know that Peter is Spider-Man.
In TASM2 , he never found out Peter's identity, considering that he never ever heard of the name Peter Parker. Also, literally says that he tought Spider-Man was black. It's pretty obvious that he has no f-ing idea who Peter is.
Considering that the spell brings from around the multiverse ''everyone who knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man'', it should be impossible for Electro to appear
nice vid btw
I mention it in the plot section
@@s.k.4289 i think i accidentally skipped it
Oops
While FFH is to me worse than this one, putting this and by extension ALL of the Holland movies next to the Soider-Verse movies really shows how undercooked the MCU home trilogy actually was
Agreed, Spider-Verse movies did the multiverse much better
I feel so vindicated 😭 i felt like i watched a different movie as everyone else was praising it as if the only saving grace of this movie wasnt just the gimmick of 3 spiderman and everything else was just a clusterfuck to make that happen😭😭😭
Nah. Nostalgia bait that actually served a purpose to the plot, realistically the entire Home trilogy was all equally as good compared to one another. This one just spoon fed fans everything they wanted so it’s “better” in their eyes when in reality they are all very good movies that tell a complete story as a trilogy. Non of the home trilogy IMO work without each other and that’s what makes it great. Holland’s story arc was incredible and he lost basically everything in order to save the villains trying to kill him… Tobey and Andrew coming back and helping Tom on his journey while satisfying their original characters… It just feels very Spider-Man. The best thing MCU’s done since Infinity War/Endgame.
Same. I felt apathetic towards this movie day 1 of seeing it. It was actually one of the last movies that made me quit the MCU altogether.
@@kiwiangeldust6912 nah i loved far from home but I feel like most of the hype for this movie is because of being a first of its kind but if we rate this movie on just the story and plot it tries to tell us, the rating would be very low.
Although it was very fun seeing characters from previous franchises come back in this movie how we got there felt very forced and kinda dumb.
Peter wants to change the fabric of reality to fix his life and lives of people around him which is although a drastic solution to his problem ill give it a pass, but strange knowing how delicate the spell is and how it would be effecting the mind of every person on earth decides not to have a 2 min conversation with peter to tell him exactly whats gonna happen but decides to do it while casting the spell was just a big dumb move on his part not to mention he blames peter afterwards for the screw up, really Strange ? Your lack of communication skills is what caused the mess not peter. I dont know why the fallout from Loki wasnt the driving force behind the start of this multiversal event, especially since this movie is one of the first ones to happen after the ending of Loki where we can see glimpses of the monumental consequences of that show with slight multiverse tears where the characters that appear in no way home slip through. I guess we'd need to explain why only spiderman characters are slipping through but im sure something could be made up, into the spiderverse had a more natural way of introducing these multiversal characters without making the main heroes look dumb and wreckless.
And my second gripe with this movie is the dumb decision Peter makes by bringing 5 unstable superpowered villains from a bunker type of space to an appartement in a public building in the middle of the city to cure them, sure the idea of curing them and helping them seems flawed since some of them like doc oc are gonna die regardless and their are infinite versions of each one of these characters that die or live in other universes but i understand Peter wanting to help them since these are concrete people to him that hes met talked to and sympathised with, but him deciding to bring them to Happys apartement instead of taking that stark box to stranges lair to help them has got to be one of the dumbest decisions Peter couldve made.
He chose to bring 5 volatile super powered unstable villains to an appartement where he had to keep an eye on all of them as they walk around the place with anything ready to set them off and have them run a muk in a place where not only his very none superpowered aunt lives but also other civilians in the building. He chose to do that, instead of just taking that stark tech to stranges bunker where each villain is imprisoned in their own cell where they can stay put no matter what sets them off and even if they manage to escape there would be wizards around like wong ready to get things under control should the worse happen. Im sorry but that choice he made was the complete opposite of being responsible and aunt May dying is completely Peter's fault as tragic as that might be. And dont tell me he couldnt move the stark tech because the fbi was looking for it i bet its so much easier moving that tech without anyone noticing than having to move 5 dangerous superpowered villains especially when one of them is a giant lizard that looks like a dinosaur. And strange didnt come back until the end of the movie so peter had all the time in the world to fix them without worrying he might be interrupted.
Ned having magic is just a copout to force the plot to move along again as well, just outta nowhere Ned is able to do stuff that took Strange months of grueling training to accomplish.
The ending also had that it was all a dream type of feel, it just felt that not only did it revert things to the status quo it reverted to even less than that, the ending of far from home was a pretty cool game changer for this franchise and having that massive plot shift get redconned by just having everyone forget it feels pretty cheap and a let down. And dont most of the avengers know who spiderman is ? Cant he just go back to Dr. Strange as spiderman then unmask and then tell him everything that happened ? I mean presumably the spell wont effect stranges trust in spiderman, he'll just forget who peter parker is and who is under the spiderman mask, but if spiderman tells him what happened and he tells him about the spell that caused it, just makes this whole spell feel very flimsy and can be easily broken i dont know. Its just bizarre that a movie with such an amazing premise can have such a forced and inconsistent plot that drags it down like it did, and i expected something more interesting, clever and creative to lead to toby and andrew being part of this.
I felt this way with when wonder woman came out in 2017 and people praised it non-stop when it was such a boring film.
One thing i REALLY dislike is that now MCU Peter will probably never encounter the MCU versions of villains like Green Goblin and Doc Ock, at least for several years. Just think about it, two of the most iconic and popular villains in the Spider-Man rogues gallery will probably not even appear in the MCU, they were just shortly borrowed from other universes and other Spider-Men. And oh God i fear that the same will happen with Tom Hardy's Venom. Instead of getting to meet the MCU Eddie Brock and have him and Peter develop their rivalry, they just do another multiversal crossover and have 2 guys who never even met fight each other. I have hope that one of the next Avengers movie will introduce MCU Norman as some sort of benefactor to the Avengers, with Peter being the only one who suspects him because of the events of NWH, starting their rivalry for the next solo movie, but i also don't know for how long the MCU will go on without a reboot of some kind.
You might appreciate some of the stuff Breaden Alberti got to say about that in his NWH and MCU villains videos.
That’s a good thing let other villains get their spotlight
@chaserseven2886 It's sort of a mixed bag - It's a goof thing in that the other rogues get their time to shine, but also the MCU is supposed to be the definitive version of these characters so having a Peter who doesn't have his own Osborne/Ock just doesn't feel right.
I wouldn't say Green Goblin wants to stick in the MCU to doom himself exactly. Now, you address the parallels between SM1 and NWH Goblin, but lets just assume that this is the version of the goblin that we are gonna get for this film.
My personal belief for Goblin staying in the MCU is due to the "Goblin persona" being tied into a no-win scenario:
1. Get sent back home to die
2. Stay and get "cured" which will result in death
For the first one, the Goblin has just been told that he will die later on in the timeline. And to further add it, the magic man who teleported Norman into a cell, and proves to Norman that magic exists is saying things like:
"It's their fate." Imply the lack of agency to change this fact. So that adds the possibility their memories get erased when sent back to add up with Stranges' comments. So Goblin has reasonable worry about being sent back.
Now, if Norman stays in the MCU, He risks being cured of his Goblin-ism, which means the Goblin dies again. Now you could argue that he could fight against this (which he does). But then your point about his lack of resources and infinite metahumans puts a cap on Norman being able to be stable in the MCU.
So, I interpret the Goblin's actions as a bit of a hail mary. Think of it as:
"If I'm gonna die, I'm bringing you down into the dirt with me"
I think it's at least a semi-consistent reasoning for his motives in NWH.
But then again, I do love this film (second favorite), so maybe i'm just trippin☠️
S.K. never said that Goblin WANTS to doom himself.
He was arguing that will doom himself if he stays in the MCU and doesn't realise it, even tho he should.
@vaggos2003 but that's because it would be besides the point for him. It's either go home and risk predetermined death. Or stay alive in the MCU and try to ethically cripple your biggest enemy.
I feel like Norman would know he is outnumbered in the MCU the moment Doctor Strange showed up.
@@KrypticSpiderMan Considering that Norman knows how he dies and could from his POV use that knowledge to save himself.
The idea that Goblin would want to ethocally corrupt hos mortal enemy becomes less compelling once you realise that this Spider-man is not his mortal enemy, just an alternate version of him.
@vaggos2003 Norman has plausible reason to believe it might not be that way. Doctor Strange (prior to pressing the button) goes on some tangent about how "it's their fate to die" and that "that's how it has to turn out". Which paints a picture that this is a fix part of his life now.
Especially since the other villains clarify that from their POV, Norman's death is a fact of the past. Now this doesn't have to be objectively true, but the point is that Norman/Goblin doesn't know that, so he can't be certain he will have agency in changing what is "technically written down by the other villains logic and the wizard's fatalistic statements"
Yeah, Tom is not Tobey, but he is also trying to kill the "goblin persona" which is a threat to its life. So it's still gonna want to take out this Spider-Man, especially since he doesn't even know if he will see his again.
@@KrypticSpiderMan Hm, good points.
I felt the whole insta reform was a cop out but my biggest issue is how they had to once again dumb Peter down to get the plot rolling
You'd think after mysterio he'd be a little less naive and not just bring the powered individuals he knows at the very least might haves gripe with him for being killed by a alternative version.
Instead hes wreckless and idiotic enough to put his aunt and the people of that building in harms way.
Exactly
I love how, Every Tom Holland movie has the opposite reaction of Andrew's. Like, Andrew's were hated at first but became "Cult classics". Tom's were loved at first, But started the be looked down upon as time passed 😂😂
Another thing with Electro Is that he never knew who Spider-Man was, a minor nit pick but something that’s kinda been bugging me
Well it’s a big reason Electro shouldn’t be in this movie
Not a nit pick it’s a good valid point electro has no reason to be in the film hell should have been the TASM2 goblin
@@Majinkennn
Andrew's harry knew peter is Spider-Man after electro's death so how on year he told electro
@@CaptainRex767
Then we would have 2 goblins in the same movie , no thanks and beside that he wasn't a good goblin anyway , they probably wanted to have one villain from each movie so they had to use electro but they didn't even bother explaining how he knew peter is Spider-Man
Still pissed they didn't bring Mysterio back.
@argkitsune or Vulture
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 or scorpion
I think a bad thing about the movie as well as the far from home is that spiderman isnt being spiderman in any of them.
Hes not saving the little guy, he made the plot happen he worsened the story and out of everyone he saves that he himself didnt put in danger are his friends.
At least amazing spidermna 2 had the montage of peter helping people the closest thing we had for that was a couple deleted scenes from no way home and far from home but thats not enough.
Homecoming had that at least
I disagree with it being “the worst Spider-Man movie” but I respect your opinion
Besides a nostalgia high the movie makes next to no sense and this movie character assassinates dr strange, Peter, sandman and lizard. Also this dialogue was made for nostalgia alone and it makes the movie flow weirdly
@@Logan_w1012 Nah it made sense which is why many really liked it, it didn't though, Peter made a mistake and tried to make up for it and wanted to not kill the villians that's all in character for him really, Strange act in character too, and with the version of Sandman they have of course he wouldn't trust Spider Man yet, and Lizard? I mean...he is resourceful he could probably figure out a way to keep himself as a lizard quickly.
@@MrDestroyah-kf6ov it’s not character assassination it’s weak writing
@@Logan_w1012Nah. Not only does it respect Tom’s arc in the pst of the MCU, it takes away EVERYTHING he has through the film.
First he loses his connection to Stark Industries. Then his nanotech suit. Then he loses Aunt May, and in the end, he loses all of the love and friendship he has built up with the people around him.
It respects where the character came from, and still puts him in a situation closer to the comic character and status quo.
And on top of it all, the effects, the action and the music just HITS.
He needs views. This movie is way better than the TASM ones
Far from home is definitely the worst
Close 2nd
I honestly agree its my least favorite of all the live action films. Just because the other spider-men return really doesn’t mean shit. The spider-verse films had cameos and it still was good because it wasn’t the sole focus and it doesn’t feel cheap and exploitative.
Agreed
@@s.k.4289 i honestly thought i was crazy for thinking this movie was bad lol. This is the only video that shares my opinion, so thanks for that and you’re ‘spiderverse bad’ review introduced me to your channel and you make good videos. Props for you to doing things to like and i hope you earn more subscribers because you deserve it.
Appreciated!
Exactly. From day 1 it just felt exploitative to me which is why I felt nothing for their return. Spiderverse actually integrates characters from other universes properly and in a way that supports the story. *That's* what should make it exciting.
Spider-Man: No Way Home is a masterpiece. We need a CW Live Action Spider-Man: No Way Home Show
No
I understood that reference.
The flash season 9 finale spider man no way home speedster edition
@@solivagen435What did you think of this video and of Madvocate's content as well?
@@vaggos2003 This video gave me a new insight into NWH I never thought of before. It's a poorly executed theme of second chances, which I thought was the film's best part. It was done quickly and easily, making Tom's Peter look too immature for Spider-Man. Also, I never realized Strange's spell could've been used to make everyone forget who Spider-Man is, not Peter Parker. This causes his sacrifice to be unnecessary and Peter to become stupider. But it's the thought that counts, I guess. 🤷This video reinforces that the *Home* trilogy is a mixed bag. It's fun but only memorable in Tobey & Andrew. It should've been an *Edge of Spider-Geddon* crossover rather than MCU Spider-Man 3.
It's completely carried by the final act. Its just stupid out of character decision after stupid out of character decisions until Tobey and Andrew show up and then you're so hyped up that you forget about the stupid out of character decisions that lead you to the peak
Nah. Holland’s story arc was incredible and he lost basically everything in order to save the villains trying to kill him… Tobey and Andrew coming back and helping Tom on his journey while satisfying their original characters… It just feels very Spider-Man. The best thing MCU’s done since Infinity War/Endgame.
@@kiwiangeldust6912 Like I said. Carried by the final act, and while his arc, ignoring the poor writing that lead to it, is great. You can't ignore that poor writing and character assassination lead to it.
But how can you enjoy it when everything else leading up to it is so poorly done? Doesn't it take away any impact the final act should have as it's supposed to be the culmination of everything the movie had set up thus far? It's like taking a cake, only liking the frosting but still saying "That was a good cake!". Like, all the ingredients are supposed to go together. That's what's supposed to give the final act its impact wouldn’t you say? Because at that point it's like, what is the final act culminating? What is it tying together? It's left as just this.. isolated thing (and heck, even the final act itself had tons of inconsistency as this video pointed out).
Not being hostile towards you or bashing you or anything like that. I just see so many people say things like this when the lapses of this film are brought up and I just don't get it. Like if you ask me, a cohesive story is what should support everything else. Not the other way around. That doesn't really sound like a movie at that point. Just a bunch of random stuff and then one part that was nice. Like, that doesn’t make it a good movie if you just disregard everything else.
@@anomaly395 Basically, the frosting was so good you filled yourself up on it, ditched the rest of the cake, and chose only to remember the frosting and completely forget about the poor quality cake it was attached to
Here's another thing about that bridge fight, if the other two Spiderman was already in the mcu at the time howcome they didn't run into the goblin while he's out there dropping bombs?
We can talk about plot and writing all we want. But something people don’t talk about is that visually, this movie looks fucking awful. Aside from the doctor strange vs Spiderman fight the way I would describe this movie is bland. It looks fucking lifeless. There is literally no one walking the streets at all.
Yeah the visuals were absolutely a downgrade.
@@s.k.4289 blame the pandemic
@@s.k.4289Even some of the villain designs, even the practical ones, look dark and ugly.
There are also some obvious moments of reused assets from the older movies due to the pandemic and some obvious areas where budget cuts were done.
Also, how does Otto still have his glasses? He was brought in right after he lost them.
Honestly, it feels like as the years goes by, and Nostalgia Bias goes away, No Way Home starts to come down as the worst Spider-Man Movie yet... Which is kinda crazy how this trilogy is going.
The moment i heard that Chris McKenna and Erik Sommers were coming back to write Spider-Man 4 my hype for the film just died. These writers are the main reason why lot of people hated the bad characterization and writing of MCU Spider-Man. They have an obsession/fetish with regressing back his character development in each film. And i absolutely don't like how they write side characters as one dimensional Disney Channel soulless gags. The fact that Zendaya is also returning gives me the feeling that they will totally screw up the ending of NWH, and the worst part is...Sony is forcing the multiverse in the movie to compensate for their recent flops such as Madame Web. Spider-Man 4 is freaking doomed.
I hope maybe they listen to some feedback, spend some more time with the script, and we could get something solid in the end.
Every time something fails, Sony's answer always seems to be "multiverse!". Like holy shit, just make an actual movie lol.
It wasn't perfect but one of the best Spiderman movies. This guy has some good points
He never misses a chance to reference Across The Spiderverse. I love it.
Me too
Doctor Strange should not be in this movie, he is a can of worms
I Forget to mention Doctor Strange should be able to solo all the villains of the movie alone, but instead he is defeat by spider man and Green Goblin 😮💨😥
So would you have prefer a random character or america chavez instead?
@mauricio6646 I would be worse, but a random street-level character would be a better choice
@@void_kitsune9381 Thats a lot of better for now. But for NWH required someone like DS
"Spider-Man: No Way Home sucks and it's terrible!"
TASM 1+2: "Hold my beer."
It had interesting villains and Andrew is the best Spider-Man, yes I said it
@@CinemaSans facts
@@CinemaSans💯
Who let this man cook he's burning the whole damn kitchen down WHAT AM I GOING TO EAT HE COOKED ME A BURNT STEAK
Lol
Remember the end credit from Homecoming that set up Michael Mando as the future villain Scorpion?
If you forget about that, don’t worry. Marvel forgets about that as well.
Yep lol
@@s.k.4289 Also remember William? That guy who got yelled at by Obadiah Stane and later used a USB to send the info about Peter to Daily Bugle?
Yeah, he never showed up, let alone being mentioned again. In fact, the entirety of Mysterio’s crew got away with their crimes because Marvel just abandoned this plot point just to bring back fan service legacy characters.
Both Peter and Stephen only have concepts of a plan for the spell.
They're eating the villans!
The movie had already started badly when in the first 10 minutes it doesn't want to risk answering whether Quentin Beck is still alive or openly confirming that his body was found, nor is there any mention or reference to the team of people who worked on Project Mysterio, who were able to take the drone's software (something that can be seen at minute 1:44:20 of Far From Home). Another problem I see is that the amalgamation of ideas made the movie turn out disastrously in its concept. What real consequences could there be now that everyone knows his identity? Only media attacks and rejection from people close or known to him? I doubt it will stay that mild, considering that Peter has put behind bars guys like Mac Gargan, the Manfredi family (extra scene considered canon nowadays), Herman Schultz, Tinkerer or the many small-time criminals he stopped in his first 6 months as a vigilante or who he fights between the events of each film, not to mention that Mysterio's assistants are still there who could perfectly want something against the wall-crawler for ruining all their work. All those people would at least try to use contacts or hitmen to make Peter suffer, either by attempting against his aunt's life, against his friends or against himself. There's one scene where this could have been perfectly played out, the one where Peter walks to the institute with MJ and Ned while they're surrounded by reporters, police, fans and detractors... At that moment it was ideal for someone from the audience to get too close to the barrier or to Peter himself to say "Mac Gargan says hello, he says you owe him a new face", immediately after he would want to stab or shoot him and his friends, to which Peter would defend himself and knock him out, leaving everyone surprised by the situation while the agents arrive to arrest the individual, at that moment Peter would truly feel the tension, fear and disorder in his life, a scene that would have changed the context a lot.
4:13 & 45:20 There's also the fact that *Strange* was the one willingly changing the spell every time Peter requested something when he could've simply just told Peter no or close it entirely like you said (right after he just said how dangerous it was). All Peter was doing was talking.
I gotta say, 10/10 video. I already knew this movie had a lot of problems (I made a video about this too a while back which covered some of the same points, and I'm glad someone else noticed the same things), but you named so many other solid points that I didn't even realize. It's honestly hilarious how many consistency and general plot issues this movie has. It just goes to show the lack of care and thought that was put into it. It's sad that there's a lot of people who can't see that and still call the movie a masterpiece (unless they recognize them but just don't care in which case, fair enough). It really is nothing but a senseless fanservice film made solely in response to fan outcry on Tom's Spider-Man. Definitely tied with FFH as the worst Spider-Man movie for me.
Even as somebody who really enjoys the film I had issues with Strange’s characterization from Day 1. I guess I’m just more lenient on the issues since w know this film had to have a lot of rewrites on account of multiverse of madness getting delayed and the COVID restrictions.
However i feel there’s an established reason as to why Strange didn’t fuse thre memory spell on Thanos. Loki establishes the TVA had become so paronoid if another Kang war coming they were pruning timelines that deviated enough. I imagine in many of those 4 million timelines Strange witnessed they defeated Thanos but they either lead to the TVA pruning the sacred timeline. Or Strange had no idea if the heroes won because he died in those other timelines. And the first DS film esyvlaihses you can’t see events past your death. Given the spell links to other dimensions I could see the memory spell either leading Kang to Earth-19999 or the TVA not willing to take the risk. The reason there was no pruning in NWH as by then He Who Remains had been killed and based on my estimation this was occuring simotaniusly with Season 2 hence why the loom was spiraling out of control
Granted it’s still a characterization flaw at the end of the day, but I don’t think it retroactively ruins Infinity War and Endgame. But I’m curious if you think my explanation is well founded or coping
(I’ll watch the rest of the video when I have more time
@skibot9974 pisses me off extra how much COVID really has ruined everything still to this day
Someone had to say it. Matt Murdock's cameo was the best part for me. The rest of the movie makes zero sense whatsoever and the multiverse sucks.
No, this is the last MCU movie when the Multiverse works
@@void_kitsune9381 I just disagree. In What If everyone was their recognizable MCU selves. If this were to make any sense and not just come off as a marketing gimmick, there would have been three Tom Hollands. In Multiverse of Madness, why is Benedict Dr. strange the whole time? I'll admit it was cool to see Andrew and Tobey, but they deserve their own sequels. Not to be relegated to the role of Memba berries. But that's just my opinion. If you want me to take the multiverse seriously, let's see Marvel have the balls to include Batman in their next film. Infinite possibilities, right?
@batboy9997 multiverse of the madness happens after NWH ,and what if is dogshit
@@void_kitsune9381 the latter is an opinion (that I agree with, btw) the former doesn't have anything to do with the fact that for some reason Peter Parker happens to have three versions spanning 30 years age difference and not the slightest resemblance to each other
@batboy9997 this nitpicking is true logically makes no sense , but whatever multiverse logics
You're cooking with this video. I really appreciate you giving credit to things marvel did right before, rather than dubking on all of the franchise due to one movies writing of a plot device (sling ring) or characters (dr strange).
I knew they'd struggle with the multiverse stuff as far back as far from home. When Mysterio and Peter brought it up I remember everyone being excited and I just had this feeling... wish I had been wrong. The infinity saga being so good, the fandom lapping everything up, and Disney and Marvel over saturating it all with shows all combined together really damaged the MCU. Still holding out hope though, I want it to get back on track cuz damn...2016-2019 MCU was peak
😂 Man , you jumped straight to the points which most people just overlooked how they degraded *Dr. Strange* just to solve Peter problem 💨💨.
Thank you for bringing up the issue of none of the avengers reaching out for Peter! People always ask the question "Where are the Avengers?", but I never see anyone talk about how problematic that is for this movie. I'd go as far as to say this movie is "Where are the Avengers?" at its absolute worst.
Yeah probably is
i hope at least one person reads this in its entirety so we can talk in the comments…
i watched this movie with my cousin when it came out and when we walked out of the theater i noticed we were both not talking about the movie… i asked him what he thought and he said “it was alright” and i think that perfectly sums up the movie… it was just “alright” and the only reason i say “alright” is because of toby and andrew… besides seeing them again, i think this was one of the worst written MCU movies to date… horrible dialogue and horrible character decisions. Here are some examples of the terrible writing.
I know it’s peter’s movie but in wtf world does spider-man best doctor fucking strange, let alone in the goddamn mirror dimension.
And how does spider-man win? by saying the word “math” you can tell they were trying to be like “yoo mathematics is cool bc spider-man said so and he’s spider-man”
but it comes off as super forced and cringy bc wtf math did he even do?? he just said math as if math is its own thing and not several different theories and equations to solve different problems and come up with answers to everyday life
don’t even get me started on ned suddenly being able to make portals on like his first try when it took strange (yk the sorcerer supreme) months to achieve the same thing.
then he just says “i wish we can see peter” TWO TIMES and that’s how we’re introduced to these two spider-men whom we haven’t seen in YEARS…They just walk through a portal in MCU Ned Leads grandmothers dining room 💀
How about the fact that the last movie ended on a cliff hanger with masterio revealing his identity to the world and it gets solved OFF SCREEN after the movie spends 15 minutes making jokes about it. Like this should be a serious situation but ofc the mcu makes it all jokes with lines like “MJ are you gonna have his spider babies”
There’s so many more but my last one i’ll write about is how fucked up the whole “everyone who knows peter parker is spider-man is coming here” thing… Electro had no idea who peter was. But he shows up as if he did, only to later say “i thought you were black” sooo did he know who he actually was or not?? And if Andrew and Toby showed up because they know they’re spider-man, then where tf are the millions of other spider-men? are there only 3 peter parker’s in the entire multiverse?
Why did only 5 villains show up? And the rest show up later?
THIS MOVIE HAS SO MANY
PLOT HOLES I CAN NO LONGER ENJOY IT
Yep it’s a big mess.
💯
The PERFECT example of why writing should be a film's primary focus. You can have awesome acting, brilliant music, fantastic special effects, but all of that means nothing when your writing is this bad.
This film is a hardcore 1/10 for me. A tremendous failure
As someone who kind've liked this film, I agree. I'm not going to just sit here and act like its heavily carried by nostalgia and fan service, the writing for the Story as is Lazily written as the characters. But IMO TASM 2 will allways be the worst Spider-Man Movie for me.
Even though I still believe Far From Home is the absolute worst of the worst Spider-Man movies have to offer, I can recognize this movie's flaws.
Even I think No Way Home isn’t amazing as anyone else says. Although I think the movie’s good, it just has a lot of issues that keeps it away from being one of the best Spider-Man movies or even a masterpiece in my eyes.
I am still convinced to this day that the Doctor Strange in NWH was a Skrull since it was so out of his character to do all that.
It definitely helps sleep better at night...
Just a question, why do u edit in random across the spiderverse clips
i know we’re in an age of “but are they really villains 🥺” but it’s a whole other level of stupid when you bring back old villains directly just so you can say “omg looks they’re not thaaat bad they’re just troubled”
That's why deadpool and wolverine has better writing than no way home at least they're self aware on the multiverse plot, also i don't like mcu doctor strange cause they dumbed him down same as hulk.
I think what they were going for with this series of Spiderman films was that Peter had powers and wanted to help people because he was a good kid. The responsibility aspect was not something that this Peter was supposed to have thought about at the start of the series. Later, his motivation became about clout, being famous and looking up to famous people. In this film, the writers had him learn the iconic line because responsibility demands sacrifice. The problem is, this series story was set up to build up to the Avenger film effectively side-tracking Spiderman's growth in HIS films.
EDIT: Saw the rest of the video and yes, that's what one of the writers says. It doesn't change the fact that he could be lying or trying to loosely connect the films together which is pretty poor story-telling.
EDIT 2: Aaaand yes, he was lying. Lol
BTW, that attack on Sneako was completely unwarranted. If you disagree with his views, then do so respectfully and tactfully. Otherwise all you are telling us is that you get triggered by petty internet squabble.
Want to point out, that we know the existence of Uncle Ben in the MCU through the Easter Egg of the initials on the suitcase that Peter uses in Far From Home.
Yep, but NWH seems to be going back on that so I suppose that could just mean anything at this point? Honestly I don’t know.
@@s.k.4289considering how different this spider man is from others and has such a different history
I don’t really mind
For all we know Ben could have died early, or before the spider bite, or he could have has run away
Yeah, we don’t know anything about him or what he meant to Peter’s development. This is a problem since they skipped the origin for the reason that we know it already, but apparently this entire trilogy is now an origin despite putting deliberate references to him in Civil War, Homecoming, and Far From Home.
@@s.k.4289how is it going back on that?? Why do you think Peter says “yeah I know” to May when she said it to him?? Because he already heard it from Uncle Ben genius, and why Tom didn’t look confused when Tobey and Andrew also knew the line. Really tired of you Raimi meat riders being actively blissfully ignorant about Uncle Ben’s existence just because we don’t get a Raimi uncle Ben sad flash back panel 🙄 that moment ain’t even in the comics, because the line never even came from him, it came from the narrator 🙄
@@grenas1995And yet they still chose to repeat that which lessens the impact of Uncle Ben's death.
Also, I don't see how Tom hearing Tobey and Andrew repeat that line should confuse him.
It seems as if the director of no way home had a poor understanding of the villains and there motivations which makes sense since those villains weren’t made by him.
This movie definitely had problems, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a lot of fun watching it. The beginning of the movie was kinda dumb and the writing could have been better, but I really enjoyed the action, visuals, and the return of the other Spider-Men and their previous villians was really cool and exciting. It was definitely a gimmick, but I just can't hate on something that brought me a lot of joy. For a movie that is basically a high budget nostalgia trip, I thought it was good overall. I also thought that TASM 2 was a lot worse, and I enjoyed watching this movie more than Far From Home. Good video overall.
Bro is a better Rage Baiter than Bella😭
Damn
You must like this movie huh? 🤣🤣
Remember when no way home first came out everyone loved it? Pepperidge farm remembers
Nel the watchers wanted the other actors the meme in live action and the comic accurate suit
You're right about doctor strange. But you could argue that no way home's version of Doc ock, goblin, electro, sandman, and lizard are alternate versions of rami and webbs version with similar backgrounds but different character arcs, such as the ones that you say they don't have. Maybe there's an alternative spiderman 2 doc ock that WAS being controlled by the tentacles and he became mentally ill as they kept corrupting him and so on.
That seems really silly and super convenient the only character I buy this for is Electro since He has a different design from TASM 2.
That's just lazy
Honestly, after the first Avengers movie (and maybe Winter Soldier, DEFINITELY after Civil War), every subsequent movie tends to make the ones that precede it worse/dumber.
And the only good thing about this movie imo was seeing the other Spider-Men together. Everything else around it is garbage writing-wise. Homecoming was the only mcu Spider-Man movie that wasn't absurdly poorly written.
Just want to say, I really appreciate the amount of evidence you put to prove your claims
Thanks 👍
You ate this bro. I loved the movie when it came out, but during rewatches I started noticing major flaws and this video pointed out a thousand more. It really sucks that this movie was bogged down by bad writing choices.
watching this video made me realize that peter isn't the smartest person in this movie
Andrew Spider-Man actually looks at Toby Spider-Man when he mentions Harry
this movie was mad over rated
The Sinister Six was teased since Homecoming, we got Vulture, Scorpion, Shocker, Mysterio who could VERY WELL return, there was also Chameleon etc. but instead they threw it all out the window and we got cheap fan service cash grab with recycled villains from other universes (probably the laziest way to use the multiverse) and three Spider-Men just because they were played by three different actors, but of course everyone loves it just because, well, as I already said it was fan service BUT nobody sees how it just ruined something that was ACTUALLY being teased
Just because fans want things like crossovers it doesn't mean it's a good idea, but in this case, they did that, not because they care for the fans but because they care about their wallets
There's a high chance this movie was written this was ONLY because animated Spiderverse was successful, though funny enough, the writers don't seem to understand WHY the animated Spiderverse was successful, it had many easter egss and fan service references but it didn't exclusively RELY on them to form its story, it had its own characters, its own story AND added tons of easter eggs and references, really, if Andrew and Tobey just appeared as a cameo in a similar way J. K. Simmons did (maybe a court room scene with Daredevil as Peter's lawyer and Andrew and Tobey sitting in the background), this would have already been way better.
Spider-Man had many different adventures in the comics, but the movies SHOULD be more grounded and simpler, just Peter against the villains, using his skills to defeat them, not three Peters vs five villains. This movie was one huge nostalgia dumpster fire.
In all fairness, the movie's premise wouldn't work on a fundamental level unless we assume that each villain is coming from a separate universe, each with his own respective history with A Spider-Man, not THE Spider-Men we see. Yes, the garbage writing is inconsistent about this, but it couldn't even function at the most basic level otherwise. It also gives the writer some wiggle room to botch each villain's personality/motivation, which they went right ahead and did. Really drains the gravity of these "reappearances" when they aren't the same versions we've originally seen.
Homecoming and Far From Home worked because they did Vulture and Mysterio who weren’t done yet villains in a Spider-Man movie.
The third film should have been about Kraven the Hunter hired to taken down Spider-Man for being a fugitive, and loosely adapts Kraven’s Last Hunt.
Let’s be honest No Way Home would be nothing without Willem Dafoe returning as Sam Raimi’s Green Goblin.
1:29:36
It’s where he was stabbed at, that’s what should matter.
If we can see it looks like Tobey was stabbed on his spinal cord, which was why he fell on his back, but since he’s not a regular human but a superhuman, he was clearly able to survive that.
why does no one mention how curing sandman screws over his daughter a lot more than if sandman kept his powers. Sandman atleast had a chance to potentially help more post SM3..now he doesn’t. I can see Sandman turning into a villain here if say he asked if he could bring his daughter over to get help and they said no.
I suppose MCU Peter doesn’t know that and Raimi Peter thinks Flint is no longer reformed because of his sudden character regression.
@@s.k.4289 and Dock ock even has less chance of surviving than he already did now that he lost two tentacles. He was technically "cured" in Spider-Man 2 and still died anyway
@@s.k.4289 I would fault MCU peter and Tobey not knowing about his daughter as further assassination on Sandman. That is his #1 purpose and if he didnt hammer it home that him being cured would fuck over his daughter more that would be assassination. As for Tobey I’d say it would bleed a little to him to as he makes no effort to mention his daughter to the other Spider-Men when coming up with cures/trying to appeal to Sandman in the battle. Overall I hate the characterization of Sandman I just find it interesting how no one talks about Penny when bringing up his char assassination.
I love when people agree that a movie is enjoyable but admit is was written poorly.
I agree with most points, especially how stupid it was to turn the trilogy into an origin. Civil War nailed him so it's sad and frustrating he had to go through this huge loop-around in his development.
I also really hate that they basically turned Green Goblin into the Joker+Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. They really just didn't rewatch the Raimi movies.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that the Spider-Men choose to spend hours curing the villains instead of sending them home, thus leaving innocent civilians at the mercy of their rampages the whole night. I don't buy the suggestion of using the sling ring to instantly teleport the villains one-by-one and gang up on them, because that would be built on an inconsistency of being able to summon people by name. I'd use it as an example of how plot holes can snowball, but not a valid solution.
Also, Strange and Peter have no idea how the time travel rules work in regards to the spell so for all they know, making changes could decimate the space time continuum and cause all sorts of issues across the multiverse. It'd be funny if that's what Strange meant when he said, "It's their fate" and the whole grand calculus of the multiverse thing, because it makes Peter look even stupider. They don't know that time traveling through magic is the same as time traveling through the quantum realm, Strange admits they know little of the multiverse, and it's also not explained in the film. For all we know Norman was sent back and then just instantly got impaled by the glider, making everything hilariously pointless.
I used to enjoy this movie, but I hate it. It's an ugly, rushed, terribly written fan-service mess.
This is what marvel had done , not by good story written characters with continuity in franchise or by some solo characters films, instead they were fixing problem like shit , NWH and dr strange MoM is great example of that, they are literally f*cking degrading theirs characters by managing others .
I hated this movie for how they made peter tough by ridiculous story with not properly dealing with problem.
*-Stand against the case and proving your worth-* ❌
*Cast a spell to let world forget you* ✅
I am literally THE largest Sandman fan in the world, Guinness Book of World Records 2017 to be precise. I literally dress my children in Sandman stripe shirts and khaki pants. and pour sand all over myself when I use the toilet. I just wanted to say how thankful I am that someone understands that the Sandman trilogy is happening. I've already printed the tickets out in my mind. And I already have a locket buried in the sandbox my dog dumps in. I just reach in, grab and slowly exhale like Sandman did on SM3. All of my children, including my son are named Penny. Bye!
Lol
Spiderman No way home was an enjoyable movie to watch but a mess. I will admit you really cooked with this one S.K can't wait to see more especially Insomniac's Spiderman or the Spiderman lotus fanfilm or even the Venom movies. Keep it up ❤
if it takes you an hour and 30 minutes to explain why you don’t like a movie, you’re probably just hating😂
It’s a 2 hour and 28 minute movie.
As much as I love this movie, like everything, it has flaws. But damn there are some good points in this video.
NWH Is the best Mcu spider man triology movie
Homecoming is
@@s.k.4289 homecoming is kind of week tbh I hate that spiderman has all this unnecessary tech it's the worst movie of the trilogy 😒
No way home
Far from home
Homecoming
Far from home was meant for peter to step out of Tony starks shadow
No way home ellivates that and meant that spiderman can be spiderman without all of this tech
@@s.k.4289 Homecoming is the worst of the films 😭
@@spider-manunknown9193 nah homecoming isn't as terribly written as the other 2
he actually didn't remember what he did. the only time norman started knowing is when the goblin made himself shown to norman.
It's a problem with long form stories with multiple writers and little to no oversight
Jesus Christ, I might be late to this party, but THANK YOU for making this. Ever since the film's come out, I've said that it was quite weak, especially in its plot points and narrative. The plot holes and reliance on nostalgia made for quite a shocking watch.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only way to enjoy this film is to switch your brain off and just go with the flow. ANY questioning of the plot, and the film falls apart like a deck of cards.
For example, WHICH Spider-Man would think that it's a good idea to bring in a bunch of super-abled, homicidal maniacs into his aunt's home and expect everything to be alright? May's death is on Peter's hands.
I can’t believe Tobey was nerfted this hard hopefully he’s better in secret wars and hopefully doomsday😅
Yep
Thats absolutely ridiculous. No Way Home is clearly the 3rd best Spiderman movie.
The Amazing Spiderman 2 is still the worst
What a convincing argument.
Why are the characters morals so inconsistent?
Goodbye
@@s.k.4289 So you’re not even gonna dignify that with a response?
Goodbye sir
Spiderman just brings all the uncured still super evil villains to his HOUSE. They really couldn't come up with anything better to drive the plot forward? Spiderman is just a dumbass?
The moment they were like "don't kill goblin! He can be changed/forgiven!" Before getting almost killed by him ruined any possible message this movie could've had, especially after aunt's death
Honestly, given that Thomas Haden Church and Rhys Ifans weren't able to physically show up on set due to COVID protocols, it's the biggest explanation to the flaws regarding Sandman and Lizard in the movie (though it wouldn't hurt to at least make the characters better).
You made some good points, but I feel like most of your criticism for this movie was just pointless nitpicking.
Facts
There are no nitpicks lol.
@@sonnypark124 Yes, they were. SK nitpicks about the powerscaling in this movie and, in all honestly, considering this is supposed to be a crossover movie, of coarse there is gotta be powerscaling issues and I don't mind them at all.
@@NewUltraHero Just because you don't mind them doesn't mean they're not issues with the film.
Explain why.
The repetitive “There’s a supervillain dropping bombs on people” bit was hilarious
Great video btw, You earned a sub from me
1:30 This also worsens when you realize Doctor Strange could've just opened a portal back to Earth. "Stark, can you get us home?" Then, he proceeds to let the very capable, so not PTSD-driven, Iron Man call the shots to fight Thanos one-on-one. Right.... Are we sure Strange lost the title of Sorcerer Supreme because of a technicality? Or was he just really bad at his job?
Lmao
Homecoming was the best one and set up so much shit for the writers to follow up on yet they end the trilogy by pulling nostalgia bait out of other universes.
Your an amazing critic man…I’m not sure if every single thing you said is right because I can’t just believe everything you said without doing my own research but you gave so many interesting good well explained points. Also gotta love the editing in this video.
Thanks!
the rami goblin isn't trying to be like comic spidey or spectacular spidey where he is the one in control, and relishes it, he's more along the lines of the 90's spidey cartoon where norman had a split personality, the misguided norman osborn and the evil green goblin.
Norman is in control, the Goblin is a manifestation of what he wants and how he would act if he weren’t held back by social expectations. Norman was never scared of losing control and never saw a purpose for seeking help because he ultimately gets what he wants. There’s no disconnect there.
I strongly disagree with u its the best movie EVER and if theres any mad Spiderman movie its tasm2 they were milking peter for the story it was a hell of a mess
My head cannon is that dr.strange wasn’t dr.strange in this movie but mafisto disguised as strange. To me it helps explain why strange was so out of character in this movie and was directly contradicting his character development in previous movies
u made some very good points i did like NWH for what it was but it defo had issues but W vid 👍