Worst DC Comics Retcons! - Comics Experiment | Comicstorian
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Buy the book! amzn.to/2DU5KYl
Subscribe to Comicstorian: bit.ly/comicsto...
Check out our Full Stories: bit.ly/comicsto...
Twitch!!! / eligiblemonster
Patreon! / comicstorian
Discord! discordapp.com...
Gaming Channel! / eligiblemonster
VLOG Channel! / tectonicspark
Start Your Collection Today! amzn.to/2DUT1oc
DC Comics and Marvel Comics Fun at Comicstorian!
Twitter - @comicstorian
Instagram - @comicstorian
/ eligiblemonster
Do You Like Video Games?
The Gaming Channel!
/ eligiblemonster
Thank you for your support!
All Music Provided by Epidemic Sound
#ComicExperiment
Send hard copies or letters or fan mail or small animals to
Eligible Monster Productions or Comicstorian
PO Box 1869
Loveland 80539
About Comicstorian:
Comic Books dramatically read by the Eligible Monster Team. DC Comics, Marvel Comics and Indie alike, nothing is free from our dramatic readings.
Worst DC Comics Retcons! - RnBe | Comicstorian
• Worst DC Comics Retcon...
Comicstorian
/ comicstorian
Damn, Gary is one hella conversationalist. If I had zero clue about comics and I'm pulled into a conversation about comic books, I'd be so lost.
But Gary pulled his weight, he even managed to put his two cents into the conversation. Damn, he's good.
Amos Chew he's a shiny... *_GARYdose_*
Gary with no glasses is the retconned alternate universe version of Gary and one day both versions will meet and transform into the female version of Gary that will endlessly give birth to more Gary's so that they will no longer go extinct. #garyfacts
Rob, changing a character's personality or status quo is a good thing... as long as the change feels natural: Spidey becoming a teacher during the 90s felt natural, wolverine becoming more relaxed and less angry after some years with the x-men felt natural... but when you change a character with no justification and in a way that makes no sense in-story then is not character growth, is character substitution, is a bad way of changing.
in fact, substituting a character is the OPPOSITE of character growth, it's erasing any chance for the character to really evolve by changing the character all-together.
remember that fictional characters have, strangely, a life it their own, even if the writers try to keep them the same they will get evolving without the writer intending it, because the situation and the character's memory unavoidably evolves slightly... as a writer myself i sometimes don't intent of giving development to a character but they end up having it because the evolution of the story forces the characters to change without me realizing it.
@@DontTakeThisSeriously616 yeah it was. they made him a teacher in the 90s animated series too.
That dude knows nothing about comics but still spitting wisdom.
I like to imagine Gary is an undercover agent from Hollywood mining new stories.
Tim. Drake. He was butchered. Also, the whole 5 years thing. we're suppose to believe Bats has gone through 3 robins before Damian in the span of 5 years.
Shock Vox funny thing was that a comic said one thing about him being a Robin, the TPB was changed. So, now there's R. Grayson, J. Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie, Damien, Carrie, and Duke that technically/barely/kinda were Robin at one time or another.
(I hate the codename Red Robin, it just seems cheesy.)
comicvine.gamespot.com/tim-drake/4005-9290/forums/what-tim-never-being-robin-means-for-his-past-683809/
that shit was horrible and it pissed me off.
And the fact that he had to die...like no....what's the problem woth All robins being alive?
I'm just still pissed with the way DC treats and has treated Tim Drake.
Was I the only one who liked new 52 nightwing's red suit
Rob or Robert means "bright fame" and it has arrived from Germanic name Hrodebert
&
Benny or Benjamin means "son of the south" or "son of the right hand" and it has arrived from Hebrew name בִּנְיָמִין (Binyamin)
Please like so they can see!!
I thought that said "Song of the South" for a moment.
Acually Jason is revived by the Superboy Prime punch, but he was also thrown into the Lazarus pit by Talia to recover his memory.
They retcon that , now its just Rah and Tahlia get his body and throw him into the pit, train him in spite of Batman to get to him
I know that, i was talking about pre-52
Read the memory part was going to type I don't think that's how that works then thought. It's comic books. Rainbow Batman all the way to People getting super villan powered by LSD
Rodney Neale so did they keep the part in new 52 were talia manipulated jason to fight batman or did they get ride of it?
Gary is just sitting there like,
"The fuck are these guys talking about?"
Does anybody else think that it's hilarious that Batman is the one trying to teach Damian people skills?
26:00
Holy shit. Look at Gary coming in here with his "Ship of Theseus" philosophy. My man!
Just Some Guy with a Mustache Yeah!
Just Some Guy with a Mustache you watch mr custodian
The argument Gary is making about Lobo is called in philosophy "Theseus's ship" or "the grandfather's axe": in short- if my grandfather gives my family an axe after he dies but my father has to change the handle of it, and then he passes it on to me after He dies but i have to change the blade on it, is it still my grandfather's axe?
Also been written about in a funny way in Terry Pratchett's "the fifth elephant"
Gary is Mr "Steal yo gurl", Rob is "Young Morgan Freeman, voice of God jr." and Benny..... has cockatoo hair but he wears it well....
Jigganautt _ I may have cracked a rib laughing at this
My name is Alexander and it means "Defender of the humans", sounds pretty dope if you'll ask me.
you guys discovered a gem in Gary, great perspectives and attention to detail
Tim Drake was not Robin in the Teen Titans show. It was Dick Grayson. He became Nightwing and we saw his parents die on the trapeze in a flashback. He just has a lot of Tim Drake qualities.
Mr Freeze new 52 thing was THE WORST retcon of new 52... Just cheapened the character... I know Snyder wanted a new take on Freeze, but it didn't add to the character, just subtracted from him...
I think you had a bit of confusion on Lost Days. Lost Days did include Talia and the Lazarus Pit. Jason did crawl out of the grave but he wasn't fully alive. Talia took him, threw him in the pit, and thought by doing so, she would gain back the affection of Batman. We all know how that turned out though.
Rebirth still hasn’t explained how cyborg has replaced Martian manhunter and how some of the Teen Titans are not part of the titans
Simple MM was never a founding member of the JL in this universe and Cyborg was simple as that people need to learn to accept it and move on, because everyone except Starfire are actually teenagers?
to answer the Jason Todd question (since ive read under the hood like 1301 times)
*The retcon punch brought him back to life, but he was basically in a zombie state, and ended up being hit by car, put in a hospital, then he ends up breaking out of the hospital when talia finds him, still in a zombie state.
*when she brings him to the pit, his body and mind are restored since he was already alive. Basically, throughout Under the Hood, Batman was trying to see if a lazarus pit could bring someone to life, and it ended up that it couldn't, it just rejuvenated the living.
obviously this was pre new 52
Wow that sounded a whole lot more complicated seems to me the New 52 just made it simpler by saying he died got thrown in the pit came back to life had some issues with Batman (for not killing the Joker in revenge) but forgave him none the less.
First
ComicsExplained Rob Corp stand up!
ComicsExplained Can u make one on if the new 52 was bad or good
ComicsExplained at the end of the under the red hood graphic novel it tells how he comes back with the punch
Hey can anyone tell me what comic is the one about the amazons kidnaping people 😂??
ComicsExplained Gary would be garrison
In the Lost Days, Superboy Prime's punch did bring Todd back to life, but was basically dead in the mind. He maintained his muscle memory, but that was it. Talia used the Lazarus Pit to help maintain Jason's memory.
The Tim Drake one wasn't even just him never being Robin, now Dick Grayson was the one who looked at Bruce Wayne and Went: "Huh, you are batman, I know!" and Tim THOUGHT he had discovered Batman's secret identity, but it was all a clever ruse by Bruce and Tim never actually got it himself. I hated it.
Ummmm....guys, the Talia and Lazarus pool did happen before new 52, the punch brought him back but he had brain damage and was in Gotham as a bum but she found him and brought him to the pit....it’s in the comic you showed in the intro comic for that topic, Red Hood: Lost Days
Leon Torres yeah, then she sends him to a bunch of assassins and mercenaries to train him (mirroring batmans training with multiple masters). Then jason kills each of them after finding out they aren't very nice people
Yup.
Just laughing at the comment “Catwomans been fixed”... did they do that at the vets lol 😜😁
Female version of Gary? Gertrude. Boom!
Macent yo! I just commented that too!
Gar/Ger is the Germanic root of both names and are just alternate spellings of spear.
Or Gerald, and thus Geraldine.
I like the name gur
There's also Gari and Garyn.
Green Arrow’s origin in new 52 is horrible - at one point he declares ‘I am a social justice warrior” for no real reason. You can’t use that term for an actual fighter - it is kinda the point. It would be like Batman declaring “I am a cosplay pro!”
What if new 52 Lobo turned out to be Lobo's son, and they now fought together, and would frequently brutally murder each other over disagreements?
(And drop Slobo somewhere in there too)
that would be really cool
Verroak Krasha I was just thinking that
N52 Lobo is probably just one of dem shitty clones
Verroak Krasha that would be great
I guess Main Man Lobo would have to kill him because...🎵The most wonderful thing about Lobo's....is he's the only one🎵
the superboy prime punch did bring back Jason and he did crawl out of the grave but with no memory of who he was just muscle memory of his training. Talia found him and against her father's wish she put him in a Lazerist pit to recover his memories
Holy crap! Gary used the philosophical argument "The Ship of Theseus" to explain problems about retconned characters (Lobo, Green Arrow, Superman).
Also, he doesn't have a feminine voice. What're you talkin' about Rob?
I love how benny explained final crisis in 30 seconds
Now I want them to make a show where benny and Rob try to explain a character or story events in 30 seconds
Try to explain crisis on infinite earths and zero hour in 30 seconds
You guys have so much fun doing this podcast. It's extremely fun to listen to. Keep being your awesome selves.
Very-Batman centric assessment. What about the complete wipe of Wally West? Part of the DCU for fifty years, founder member of the Teen Titans, and more importantly the Flash for twenty years.
Well thats the whole idea behind rebirth
Can I tell you both, Rob and Benny, I appreciate what you two say and your opinions so much and can listen to you talk n tangle all year long
My lady hears this and responds.. " he's no longer Gary, now he is Grace."
#garyfacts gary is a rare and endangered new species. #savegary
Agreed
"I'm delicate flower Bich!"
-Rob 2018
Tim Drake's new52 origin: He was an Olympic gymnast hopeful who thought he figured out Batman's identity but Batman was tricking him. Then he stole money from Penguin's bank accounts, which got his parents killed, AND he was never actually named Tim Drake. Batman made it so Bruce Wayne became his guardian thru the Witness Protection program and Tim Drake was his NEW identity. 🐂💩
fantasgasmic wait his name wasn’t Tim Drake??? Oh...Ok. Yea 52 kinda fucked him up, tbh
But they revealed in Batman & Robin eternal that his parents survived, right?
Madeline Jay No, they were alive in the actual origin
The retcon for Red Hood was actually good because my introduction to Red Hood was the animated film with the pit.
assassinsknight same
His origin was better but his Red Hood and the Outlaws run was hot garbage
The feminine name for Gary would be Garalynn or Gertrude.
You're welcome
how the hell can they defeat doctor manhattan the man REMOVED 10 YEARS from the superheroes i mean batman doesnt even have prep time like wtf
Coming back to these old vids bc Benny was the MAN! Love n miss ya Benny
Honestly I loved majority of the New 52, though I do argee Benny about if change a character up too much it's not that original character. However Rob is right it is boring reading the samething over and over for years, which is why reboots are amazing and necessary.
The Flash And DC Comics I believe reboots are less about the characters and more about the story, superman has been consistent with all the super strenght, super speed, kryptonite weakness ect, same with batman rich normal dude with gadgets and money to blow to fight injustice blah blah, what im saying is that as long as they give the characters meaningful challenges and obstacles to overcome for character development no matter how much time passes they dont stale but there comes a point where all the ideas become incoherent and contradict every step of the way or are executed poorly which is better to get a clean slate, thats my view on it
Put that way it does seem boring, but to be fair in practice its different. The batman has been basically unchanged in tone and history since the 80s and he is arguably the most popular character out there. The Nu52 tried to change very little because morrison was still on the book. Also, the marvel universe as a whole had almost no reboots until the recent secret wars so thats 50 years of being tops in the industry without rebooting. Its not reboots and change for change sake that prevents boredom, its good characters and good stories.
There were alot of changes I wasn't a fan of but there were a lot of great books in the new 52 that had a lot variety, like Batman, Grayson, Batgirl, Swamp thing, I vampire, Justice league, Justice league dark, red hood and the outlaws, Titans hunt, Lois and clark, we are robin, Aquaman, Flash, Dial H and justice league united.
When you guys do Bruce Timm's Animated Universe (Batman TAS, Superman TAS, Batman New Adventures, Batman Beyond, Justice League, JLU) as a topic one day for the Podcast, Sal Criveli from ComicPOP has to be the guest on it!!!!!!
We need "Robs 7 favorite punches in comics"
montizuma59 yep
montizuma59 Batman to Guy Gardner!
I rarely sit and watch such long videos but... You guys just make long videos so fun to watch.
Come for comics but stay for gary
So... the reason the new 52 happened is because a nuclear wizard did it. I've heard worse reasons.
I like "The Rob and Benny Experiment, Gary." Like you're explaining something to him.
Also another problem about the new 52 they ruined superboy aka Conner Kent and they also ruined Bart Allen aka kid flash
Well both are back in the new Young Justice book
@@BlamoStramo yup that's right however those versions of Bart Allen and Conner Kent in young justice book aren't technically the new 52 versions nope instead they are the pre 52 versions of Conner Kent superboy and Bart Allen impulse kinda sort of its complicated.
You guys got old Earth 2 and Power Girl so wrong. Huntress and Power Girl both took over for Batman and Superman. Power Girl didn’t like being in Superman’s shadow so she drops Super Girl and the “S” logo and blue tights to make her own name. I forget the line of comics that lead to it (was a kid and they were my uncles comics), but it’s what got me into DC and it was amazing.
Gary is handling this conversation soooo good.
He listens to the topic, wait to have a good understanding of the situation and tries to be a part of the conversation on a freaking metaphysical level. Nicely done.
The new 52 Lobo was the biggest insult to the character of all time... lol. I couldn't believe that it was real. I bought the first run because I was convinced that DC was trolling Lobo fans.
Dude... the first time I seen the OG Lobo was the paramilitary christmas special... I was hooked
they can still bring back the OG lobo. theres a story line where he was killed but kept fighting god and the devil so they got sick of his shit and made it impossible for him to die. then theres the black hole story where he time skips around his life that can be used
Gary’s female name? Brittney Spear.........
Why is Garry the most knowledgeable non-comicbook reader in a comic podcast
New52 Superman still felt like Superman but it depended on who was writing him.
Badre Bally I don't really get what people didn't like about new52 superman. He seemed fine to me.
Might of been the fact that he was with wonder woman instead. Meh not bothered I prefer superdad anyway.
Stop picking on Gary. He sounds like a dude to me. 😂
Gertrude would be the female equivalent of Gary
Gary for the Win with that example.
Just saying Lobo means wolf in Spanish
Benny you did the lost days story. The punch brought him back but his mind was broken Talia found him and threw him into the pit against her fathers wishes and then provided the additional training to him that allowed him to become the villain the red hood. In the New 52 she we only know that she dropped him off with the monks at some point after dipping him into the pit.
I love this channel. I have to say nice job to Gary keeping up and I hope to see him on these more. I totally felt like that talking to my friends when my friends start talking comics.
If all of them were Robins for so long, Batman would be like 200.
swng uhhhhh! NO!
Tim Drake chose not to be called Robin, choosing to go by Red Robin instead, because he did not want to dishonour the death of Jason Todd. For a short time, he was still called Robin by most people, but he never called himself Robin (mostly Batman choosing to call him Robin, because of the father-son relationship of Batman and his Robins). That is why when all the "Robins" are gathered you usually see "former Robin" in Tim Drake's bio.
"So we are watching the flash and we just met Jay Garik" no you haven't. ;)
I was thinking the same thing 😂😂😂
Ixnay on the Unterhay Olomanzay dude. Not cool.
Gary’s girl name is Gertrude. Nice try Gary
Gary's insight has changed me, i love these.
How Rob can think Riri is a good character is completely beyond me. Toni Ho is a massively better character, and should have been where Riri is.
I thought the lazarus pit retcon was before new 52. Wasn't the under the red hood animated movie before new 52?
The way they explained the retcon-punch back in the day is that the "heaven" superboy was in was the last remains of the multiverse. Basically, the way it worked was as long as the paradise dimension existed Earth prime was still fluid, so when SB Prime punched the wall it made changes to reality since the prime earth was unfinished.
Thats how infinite crisis was even possible. They explain it in the Infinite Crisis annual if i remember.
I've always hated the clay Wonder Woman origin, so for her to be the child of Zeus, I'm down.
He was red robin in pre 52 cuz Jason Todd was red robin first in the robin solo series and Tim drake wasted to use an identity that had already be tarnished so he got prove he could improve it.
Sweg yo Sweg Tim should have never been downgraded to the Red Robin identity. Tim Drake could be a better analytical Batman then Nightwing could in the future, but I see why they made Tim Red Robin, doesn't mean I like it.
Have you heard the legend of Darth Gary the wise?
Honestly I love you guys so much. Its nice to listen to other comic nerds like me ramble about interesting stuff like this. i listen to you guys at work and my only issue is there isnt enough. Looking forward to more rnbe. love that you guys work together now
I agree the new 52 origin for Tim Drake aka robin was bullshit and didn’t make any sense
Epic Rob Voice:
"Your name means Magic!!"
Drink each time rob messes with his hat
plus, the retcon version of Jason Todd w/Tallia &the Lazerus Pit, leaves less to the imagination but is a better version if you want it to make sense. Only bec now, anyone who goes in the Pit, will come out with partial memory loss or variation. They will come out with their darker side at the forefront of their mind as well, until they are eventually able to control it on their own, or with the help of someone(s). So that helps to explain why Jason's"moral compass" is out of whack for a while. Plus, just ask Damien how messed up your mind can be went you are raised by Tallia for a while, your mental(&in his case, GrandFather) is Ras Aghul& you reside in a castle away from civilization!So your daily routines become training in every sense of the word u can from dusk til dawn(fighting,meditation,mission simulations,sleep&food deprivation,learning to kill with no remorse,growing up w/completely different goals,aspirations,morals/ethics,dreams,ideas of what the world is&cld be in the future then MOST of the "normal" population! So this makes sense for Jason's retcon-& also makes it more realistic for him to eventually rejoin the BAT Family
Well, you could have Gery (short for Gertrude) or Jerry (sometimes girls are called Jerry).
Red Robin told Red Hood that he did not want to take Jason's mantle when they teamed up in Death of the Family. It was out of respect, I think.
I think it’s Gertrude, the feminine Gary I mean
"That's like a mom response" god I love this podcast, so many great episodes
Yes Red Hood got resurrected whit the punch but he was an empty Shell. So he was found by Ra's al Ghul and later Talia use the Lazarus Pit to restore his mind. This was pre new 52
I recall here is a short story, Post Infinite Crisis, it was said Red Hood got retcon punched to life, climbs out of the grave, collapses and went into a comma. Talia Al Ghul found him and took him into her care, made him hate the world, but he basically ran away when he recovered. Do not remember if she threw him in to the Lazarus pit to help him heal or not. Batman Hush or the follow up to it.
In new 52, they removed the retcon punch completely, and made it officially the Lazarus Pit.
I am 100% sure the Talia Al Ghul part wasn’t New 52, only the Lazarus Pit part was.
Benny always looks like hes on the verge of breaking everyone neck.
My least favorite retcon in New 52 is the original change to Tim's origin: he ATTEMPTED to figure out Batman's origins, but never actually figured it out.
Red hood retcon makes more sense w the lazarus
Worst thing about new 52 is Barry Allen cause he should remember everything before flash point and pre new 52 but then they just have him convinently forget them in random new 52 stories it’s a mess
Can you (or did you already?) do an episode on the retcon punch?
Want to see a video about the which scrapped Justice League movie would have been better?
2007's Justice League:Mortal vs 2011's Justice League
One combined JLA: Tower of Babel with Superman: Sacrifice the other was Flashpoint and Justice League: War but centered around Superman. Both meant to start a DC Cinematic Universe with a bang.
Jay K. Weatherface
If only DC started their cinematic universe around that time... (Sigh).
Sebastien-Loik Ntsangou-Kanda they were close like really close they just chickened out at the last minute 2007's was had a cast, costumes, George Miller was set to direct, and sets built but nope and the 2011 one WB was so pleased with it that they already had Will Beall working on a sequel script and booking him for a third.
Doing away with the marriages, lack of legacy, encroaching darkness, and the reintroduced Wally West. Oh, hell, I hated the new Wally West! He was a slap in the face to long time Flash fans. You cannot just introduce a new character that has nothing at all in common with the original character and say its the same thing. It just seems that he was created because Dan Didio was pissed that fans were clamoring for his return and they just slapped his name on a new character...WITHOUT POWERS, CONNECTION, or HISTORY!!! AUGH!!!!!
KoebsShadow - NOT when he was introduced. He was a punk kid. The way it progressed and he EVENTUALLY got powers seemed like a capitulation and not part of the original story they had planned at all. In addition, you know they wiped out all of Wally's character growth, power, and adventures (time as Kid Flash, Flash, Linda Park). Total slap in the face to fans. I mean if you drop a character into Metropolis with Blonde hair, brown eyes, no powers, and say he's homeless, but you call him Clark Kent. Does this automatically make that character Superman?
With Jason's origin in the New 52, he stole supplies from Leslie Tompkins and when Batman confronted him and was about to hand him to the police, Leslie asked him to give Jason a chance. Yeah I prefer him stealing tyres from the Batmobile as his origin
Honestly I like the New 52 Wonder Woman origin as it is more reflective of mythology.
26:00 The Grandfather's axe Paradox if you replace the handle you replace the head is it still your grandfather's axe
Gary’s female name is Gari. Gary with an i. There.
Under the red hood animated movie had a perfect compromise of the two different origins for Jason’s return. He was raised from the dead by the league of shadows but was able to escape and make his own decisions
The Lobo part reminded me of a list about “the worst new 52 costume changes” 100% the worst was Raven
Nah her outfit actually wasn't that bad people just hated the helmet she wore there was probably some other character who had a far worse look then her.
Love Rob's "oh no wait" points his finger in the air and takes off his hat. Not even really sure Rob has that tick when he remembers something. Lol
Worst New 52 retcon was switching out Cyborg for Martian Manhunter in the JL
carlos rodriguez YES
Yup. They could've at least made Cyborg start out as a member of the Teen Titans first and then maybe have him join the Justice League later on as a type of progression for the character.
Guess that was too much to ask for.
In regards to tim drake becoming red robin and skipping robin, it wasn't a pride thing or "I'm too good to be robin." I think when he joined batman in the new 52, it wasn't too long after Jason died (as robin). The wound was too fresh, it was toon soon for someone else to become robin, so he become red robin
John Bauman the original Tim Drake becoming Robin storyline was great as it was, the Red Robin ID is garbage, he's always going to be Robin for a lot of fans.