How Good Are Crossbow Militia in Medieval 2: Total War?

How good are Crossbow Militia?
Crossbow Militia is a early-mid-game infantry unit for numerous factions in Medieval 2: Total War. But how good it actually is? Let's find out. The unit will face five trials in battle, and also its production will be scored. The rules for analysis are in the video, and can be found below.
Do you agree or disagree with the results? Feel free to comment below. :) And what other units you would like to have tested in this way?
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00:00 Rules & vs. Horde battle
04:43 vs. Elite battle
09:04 vs. Cavalry battle
11:16 vs. Missile battle
14:34 vs. small HRE army battle
21:04 Production and overall score
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Rules for the test:
Always 4 units will participate to the test battles
Battles fought against AI in medium difficulty - tactics can be used
Points in a fight: Based on victory or defeat level (max. 8 points)
Battles (total theoretical max 40 points - practical max about 35 points):
Round: Against a horde (8 x Town Milita)
Round: Against elite (3 x Dismounted Feudal Knights with +1 upgrades and +1 exp)
Round: Against Cavalry (4 x Feudal Knights)
Round: Against Archers (4 x Pavise Crossbowmen)
Round: Against an Army (5-unit Holy-Roman army)
Production (total max 18 points):
Cost: For every new 250 florins -1 point (max. 4p)
Upkeep: For every new 75 florins -1 point (max. 4p)
Availability: For every 2  +1 point (max. 4p)
Requirements: City tier +1  -1 point + special requirements affect
I reserve a right to adjust some of these
reasons stated, and showing also the ”mechanical results”
Total max points 58 (theoretically), perhaps about 45 practically
This video will teach you new things about units in Medieval 2:Total War. In this video you can learn how good the Crossbow Militia are. If you play the game, want some new information about it, or just want to watch some visually nice fights of ancient times, check this video out :)
#medieval2totalwar #totalwar #howgoodis

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

I could make a summary of these guys in a sentence; it's a 9 missile attack unit with armour piercing that you can recruit for buttons. That's all you need to know. Yes, they're hard to use and protect, but put them in the right place and they'll decimate a unit of much more expensive knights and might break their charge too if the volley hits at just the right moment. That last part makes them a cut above peasant archers as peasant archers usually can't inflict enough damage in a single volley to pull that off. (Not saying they can't, but the crossbows are much more likely to disrupt the formation.)
They're a godsend in sieges for the same reason; have them fire into a unit of generals' bodyguard sallying from the plaza and they'll massively reduce the casualties of whatever spear infantry unit had the thankless job of bringing them down, and unlike short bows and javelins, these guys won't run out of ammunition before everyone in the centre of a village is dead. You'll still need feudal knights to take fully defended, stone-walled settlements, and obviously knights are a better pick in the open field, but bring some of these guys with them for a ranged option.
Conquering the map with an army of mailed knights and these guys isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. They can even mess up horse archers if properly protected in loose formation. A blacksmith gives them decent armour.
Obviously, they'll get turned into paste if you let them anywhere near an enemy. Though if you're feeling sadistic, you could pit them against some tired peasants for the medieval equivalent of a slap fight. They're also more likely to struggle against any faction who can actually fire back.
And as I type all this... Waacku, did you *seriously* just beat an entire German army with a unit of militia crossbows? I suppose that proves my point...

[@timothyernst8812]

I've completed plenty of campaigns with this as my only missile unit. One of the most cost effective units in the game.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

That captures the essence of the unit rather well :) Thanks for the comment.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

@@timothyernst8812 Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.

[@askthepizzaguy]

I must concur with napoleoncomplex2712. You recruit these men for a handful of pocket lint, take them to any assault on a city, use your other forces to push the enemy back to the city center, and then march these guys to the front, having taken no casualties from archers or towers or any melee units. But the enemy AI is now in the panic mode of huddling in the city center for the infinite morale it gives.
1. Kill their captain or general by standing just in front of your heaviest spear unit, firing at them with your crossbows, and then when the enemy sally out to attack the crossbows, rush them behind your spears again. Rinse and repeat. They will kill any unit and then take no damage as they move behind cover if you fire MANUALLY and retreat manually quick enough. Don't let skirmish mode or auto fire cause them to be stuck in the firing animation on the second volley and then take casualties. One volley is plenty, you'll be able to fire again later.
2. If their captain or general is already dead, simply fire at any unit that could be trouble for your infantry to take out in melee. Kill that unit so your swords or spearmen don't have to.
3. Keep shooting at the center of mass until you have no crossbows left.
And that's when you have just one of these. I usually bring enough to literally shoot down hundreds of infantry while taking zero crossbowman casualties in return. If the enemy rushes out and attacks my infantry, that battle happens outside of the city center, so the infinite morale thing is gone. By this point in the battle, we're already in an overwhelming advantage. I can park these guys in a side street and fire at the enemy as it approaches my spears, so while they're out trying to attack the first unit of crossbows that lured them out, they touch spearmen instead, are engaged in melee and can't attack a second unit standing a few feet to the left or right, and those crossbows fire at their unprotected sides and rear, bypassing shields and piercing armor.
Volley after volley of crossbow fire, while my shielded spearmen stand strong and take ages to whittle down, means the enemy loses men and more importantly morale first. They break. They rush back to the city center.
Now I pull out my first unit of crossbows from behind my spearmen and I fire at them as they're just getting back to the city center.
The AI either rushes forward again, only to be pinned down by spearmen and then shot at point blank range by a second unit of crossbowmen to the side, and then flee back to the city center, wasting time and energy and losing men and morale, all while facing the wrong way half of the time, allowing my crossbows to fire at them without any shields in the way.... or they just stand there.
Once they enter 'just stand there' mode, I fire at them mercilessly until they are all dead. 'Just stand there' mode means I take zero further casualties, and as long as I brought enough crossbowmen and therefore ammo, I destroy every single man in the city center.
The city center may have infinite morale, but it does not provide infinite armor, shields, hit points, or cover.
And I brought, while not infinite ammo, enough ammo to kill them all.
I like winning field battles with horse archers where I have taken literally no casualties because I micromanaged them well enough not to take friendly fire, and I killed their general from the side or behind, and then started firing directly at the rear of the enemy army while my general just lures them around in circles. Melee cavalry, melee infantry, and foot missile units generally fare poorly against this strategy and often cannot kill even a single soldier of mine.
Well, it's a lot harder to pull that off in a city that I am attacking. Horse archers cannot take walls and usually lack the range and protection archers on walls have.
But, add some catapults and trebuchets, and suddenly, there are big holes in the walls and nowhere to stand on them. Enemy retreats to city center. There is where javelins, long range archers, and crucially, crossbowmen come in handy.
Javelins run out fast, those are specifically for kings, heirs, and other generals if they come attacking my spearmen. Park em behind the spears, and the general is going to die, and lose more men than my spearmen do. But they run out of ammo in seconds and are then useless.
Archers fire at a safe distance but their fire is blocked well by armor and shields. You will run out of ammo against a horde of spearmen with shields and good armor.
Crossbows don't care. They pack a punch, have as much ammo as peasant archers do, which is the maximum of 40, and will penetrate armor.
These guys kill knights on horseback, general's bodyguards, kings, princes, heavily armored and shielded spearmen, dismounted feudal knights, EVERYTHING.
They may be a peasant/militia quality unit on paper, but crossbows are lethal. These guys are like the guys manning a catapult or a trebuchet, they're not there to fight with their swords. You're dumb if you force them to do so.
But if they have their hand-held siege weapon, the crossbow, and you have cornered the enemy in the city center... No other unit kills that infinite morale cluster of enemy troops that refuses to surrender quite like ordinary, cheap as dirt, barely trained militia crossbows.
Just endless volleys of bolts of death that cut through everything, bar none. They quickly tire of trying to rush outside the city center and attack me in melee, as that just results in crossbows from the side or the back while they fruitlessly attack my infantry.
Then they enter 'just stand there' mode and it's over. I take zero further casualties as my crossbows rack up hundreds of kills.
This is the part of the campaign where I usually take the most casualties, is when I need to take that city center to win a fight.
Crossbows allow me to take the city center with between 50 to zero additional soldiers dead. That means my campaign doesn't stall while I retrain or recruit more soldiers. The spears that just took casualties become the new city guard and I advance to the next city or castle with my army of crossbows, spears, and trebuchets that took basically no casualties assaulting a walled city.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Well put. Yea, they are rather impressive :) Thanks for the comment.

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

That is an amazing post. Thank you. The only thing I resent about the crossbows is they can end up making sieges too easy! I'm a bit burnt out on Medieval II's campaign, but if I played it again, I'd have to try a melee-only campaign to force me to get a bit more creative with my tactics!

[@patmcgroin6916]

I'll always remember a Danish campaign I was playing where I'd overdone it a bit with these guys. Well, Black Death hits, I get all the healthy militia units I could outa my cities and into field armies. Had this 20 stack with like...12 cbow militias and 8 core heavy units in the low countries area when the English attack. They sent one heavy infantry spam after another and all I had was that cbow militia stack.
And I destroyed one army after another. I'd keep my core units as far back as possible, divide my cbows into groups of 3 or 4, send 'em up, usually on skirmish. As the English armored behemoth (no cav or long bows heaven forbid, lol) slowly advanced, I'd have about half my boys firing, the other half falling back at any one time, kiting so to speak. A couple of groups placed on the flanks. By the time the English force got to my core units, it was almost decimated!
I much prefer crossbow militia to archer militia for my city garrisons.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. That went rather nicely. The AP of Crossbows is really nice :)

[@askthepizzaguy]

I must praise your use of these foot crossbowmen as a sort of poor man's mounted crossbowman given your tactics on the open field. I must admit I don't have the patience for that level of micromanagement for the hundreds of field battles I have to fight over the course of a campaign. I don't like to micromanage the crossbows like that, as they have low stamina, not impressive speed, terrible morale, and break instantly in melee.
One misclick and they're gone. Battles are typically involving more units on the field than these trials, and the risk of mis-micromanaging is too high, and I just want every one of these guys alive for the more critical siege assaults.
But your skills show off how impressive these guys are at actually killing things. Pair these guys with some decent infantry to hide behind if necessary, or some cavalry to harass the things trying to melee your crossbows.... that's a potent combo.
You're doing it without cover, which is impressive since I would certainly not recommend doing so in a practical campaign setting. But man they're good, and so are you at winning these battles with these guys in the field without cover.
I rate them much more poorly in the open field where charge speed matters, cavalry rule, flanking is much more likely to be a factor, and retreat speed matters. Firing speed also matters and these guys are slow.
They're just not good being the main source of damage in the open field and here you are with flawless execution showing how it's possible anyway.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thank You! I have to admit, that I don't use these guys that much in campaign because I don't have the patience to micro either :D In addition to that 1 misclick, skirmish mode does not work consistently etc.

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

It might be worth doing a peasant archers vs militia crossbow duel at some point. The age old 'crossbows vs longbows' question, only it's the poor man's versions. The crossbows might end up winning due to either causing more casualties with each volley they do fire, or else due to not running out of ammo when the peasant archers do.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

@@napoleoncomplex2712 Thanks for the suggestion. I will add that to To-Do list :)

[@askthepizzaguy]

@@qualityoldgames7721 I predict the archers will prevail because their targets are also unarmored at base and they fire more quickly. I think the only reason why pavise crossbowmen prevail against archers that do serious damage and fire faster is because of their armor and shields.
I could be wrong, as I am not someone who wants to put my precious archers or crossbowmen into the line of fire of enemy missiles. But these militia crossbowmen are extremely vulnerable to missiles being both unarmored and unshielded, and are one of the few targets that peasant archers actually do considerable damage to with each volley, even from the front, because their orientation does not matter and they have no armor.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

@@askthepizzaguy Thanks for the comment. That is a good point. Let's see what happens in the test :)

[@Tome36]

like genoese crossbow militia but worse

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.