NEMESIS | F-4E Phantom Vs Mig-21 Fishbed | DOGFIGHT | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.
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Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.
NGAD vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-57 vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-47 vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-47 vs SU-57, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-47 vs NGAD, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
F-4 vs F-5.
Hell, I'd just like to see you fight the F-4 in a MiG-21
Great video again! I think fights like this are perfect for education because everything is happening slowly so you have time to talk and people have time to think about what they see. 😀In a future I wish to see more battles with both air dominance fighters and small planes like group of F15, F16 against SU-30, MIG-29, but I understand that it's not allways easy to find people who will participate.
@OJGAMING-nq2gm ::shrug:: The first two items were the entirety of the list, until he started doing vids on the SU-47, then i added the other 3 items... been posting my list of requests for the better part of a year..
The timing of the commentary always gets me in these.
GS - 'You need to be patient, you have to maintain your energy perfectly, you really can't get greedy etc'
GS 1 second later - 'So I'm going to yank the stick and pull him into the hud now'
Loooool yes I’ve been well known to not take my own advice against my better judgement.
@@GrowlingSidewinderlol yeah that’s basically one of your characteristics
@@GrowlingSidewinder "Do as I say not as I do!"
Nah, this makes perfect sense. It just means your OODA loop is absolutely tiny!
Love seeing the Japanese F4 in that blue scheme
Japan only recently retired their Phantoms.
But they never were retrofitted with leading edge slats. Essentially, they were what was referred to as “hard-wing” Phantoms.
Even with the improvement that the new slats offered, and the later production dates of the F-4EJ, I never understood why they never appeared.
Most of the USAF E-models had them, either direct from production line or refitted later.
@@RampantFury925 : Yes - the last F-4EJ's were retired on 17 March 2021 - after serving the JASDF for a mind boggling 50 years.
@@pilotmulerider5513 Hard-wing phantoms were a bit faster. JASDF wanted speed for these F-4EJ so that they could scramble and reach the enemy violating their airspace.
@@ボブ-m7m Excellent point, and that would explain why the RF-4Cs never got them. Just had to go hard, fast, and STRAIGHT to take the photos. Thanks!
Really curious to see how you'd go about this fight from the other side in a MiG-21
Me too, we’ll do that soon.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Awesome!!
🤩👍🏻
GS, you don't get enough credit for your commentary throughout these videos. It's always so concise and informative. 👏
Thank u brother, I appreciate you.
thats the best part
@GrowlingSidewinder GS' commentary is especially fun when he is flying an F-22 against a doomed opponent because GS gets so cocky in his comments. 😅
Been in this fight when I was in the 563 TFS at George and we flew two days against a Mig 21C (in the usual place) and a total of 5 engagements. The book says don’t get below corner speed 390 KCAS but falling down to 350 was ok. The Phantom could take the fight upstairs because of better thrust to weight. The Mig can point his nose at very slow airspeeds and this can fool you into pulling into him to jam his missile when he is very slow…and this is a fatal error. Essentially, the Mig has one good turn, bleeds like mad, and then can’t get his energy back. Usually, once his energy was down, one can lag roll into his six and shoot him with a heater. The AIM 7 is lethal across the 2 circle fight and generally we liked the 2 circle fights when the radar was working well. Once the AIM 7 is after him, he doesn’t fly BFM any more and you can kill him with a 2d shot if required.
You fly the F-4 pretty well. Use the lag roll more.
Great advice thank you for sharing your knowledge, can't wait to try it out. can't imagine getting a sparrow off in the 2 circle they seem to trash, but it must be me I'm not as good with the radar and getting locks during BFM/ACM, so something to work on there.
@@GrowlingSidewinderit depends on which missile I think too. I think I saw it in someone elses video that the E2 Sparrow was known as the "dogfight Sparrow." So it may be better suited to BFM
@@GrowlingSidewinder It probably has to do with jester not setting the proper aspect
@@GrowlingSidewinder The two modes that worked for fast locks in 2 circle is a boresight lock or an auto-acq where you hold the bandit at 20 deg high (a fist above the canopy bow) for a second to let the radar settle. Don’t know if the sim replicates either mode well, but I’ve seen both modes are available. It’s tricky.
The auto Acq you mentioned sounds like what I'm looking for, is this mode by any chance also called "CAA" or Computer Auto Acq ? sorry to make you think back to all those years for such a specific piece of info lol. I've been really looking for this 20 deg High lock mode.
It's like 2 soldiers standing 50 yards apart desperately trying to reload their musket before the other guy does. I love it! F4 has always been my favorite.
The mission I would like to see with the F-4 is the one it was originally designed for, a bomber intercept with BVR Fox-1s, and then a merge with Fox-2s and guns.
"Long and sleek and fast and high, it's a damn mighty fine machine.
You can take the word of an F-4 jock, a MiG-21 is mean.
But so is a Phantom. Ugly - but big, and powerful, and faster than greased lightning."
Oh, and Mobius 1 skin when?!
I’ll second that last bit
Underrated F-4 wins again. I love the look of the F-4 man, the way the rear wings sweep down look insane and the way the main wings sweep up at the end as well, I also love how the engines Iook like they are about to melt the tail off the jet. I would love to see one in really good shape in real life, fully loaded of course. Great vid dude.
Thank you brother much love, I love the wing sweep up at the end like you said too, shes deff a beaut.
Mig 21 does not even have r60's? How is this fair fight
@@mmmdawe Ask GS
greece still has a few rocking around and the phantom society or whatever it's called holds a gathering every year where you can see them take off and fly, though I haven't been to one yet. Turkey probably has the best maintained and most active ones though, I heard they plan to fly them into the 2030s.
Don´t know exactly why, but I find this to be your best vid. Maybe I just find that you´re explaining your steps so nicely
Thanks, also because this fight is a little slower I found I had more time to explain things a bit more so maybe that played a part.
Your observation that these fights take more patience than we're used to in the modern jets really struck home for me. Reminds me of how WWII dogfights usually pan out.
Spotted an F4 visiting our local air museum (volunteer run, like a field full of tarnished silver) last night, I didn't appreciate how large it is/was. Made the Hawker Hunter and English Electric Lightning look svelte!
Mig pilot is hella smart
I learn so much watching these videos. Your talking through your frame of mind, the events of the dogfight, energy management, even things like "If you pull a bandit into the HUD and he doesn't die, you've made a mistake. Because you've bled energy to get that shot." Absolutely dead-on observation and assessment.
Mad respect for the older generations of fighter pilots that had to make do without HOBS, Fox-3s, and silly things like visibility out of the cockpit.
“It’s not the plane it’s the pilot” -Top Gun
Pretty sure it's the missile.
We should get f-15c vs f-4e older brother vs younger brother
In the last fight, you flew ‘to the elbow” (imagine fighting with your hands as aircraft) which the F-15 guys call the ‘control position’ because the bandit has to turn in plane and bleed energy. From there, one matches turn circles, brings the bandit to the HUD for a shot, and you have to be ready to lag roll off immediately back to the control position. Nice work.
really really nice to see this kind of battles which involve more 'chess-like' movement, appreciate this and your content ^^
PLEASE fly The F-4 VS The A-4 guns only Dogfight!🙏👍
A guns-only fight would probably put the Phantom at a disadvantage. It wasn't designed for dogfighting, and it doesn't turn that well.
Hi, with my Research into F4 flight characteristics. It prefers to fight in the Vertical Egg. The High Wing Loading and Canopy bow doesn't help in a Two circle Turn Figure. It's better off fighting two circle in the vertical plane.
Thanks for explaining how a pilot MUST use the aircraft to get the most out of it, then the strategy and execution to win in a dogfight.
Clearly nobody can beat you in terms of versatility as a pilot on DCS, that is why we have subscribed here.
Kudos sensei.
These dogfights were like watching two old men sitting on the front porch arguing. After about 30 minutes one man gets up and smacks the other one, knocking his hat off, then sits back down. That was the energy level. Still a good video though.
I'm a simple man; I see GS, I hit like button.
2:15 “:)”
On another note, you should do a MiG-19/J-6 vs F-4 fight. Apparently many VPAF pilots preferred the J-6 over the J-7 as it was more maneuverable in a dogfight, even if it wasn’t as fast
J-6 had a higher thrust to weight than mig 21.
Great fight between two iconic airframes. That blue colour scheme looks particularly good on Japan's F-2 Viper (F-16 variant).
Thanks again for adding red circles. Makes watching on a small screen phone easier.
The thing that are relevant in a F-4 to MiG-17, MiG-19, and MiG-21 dogfight is all about experiences and skills, where aircraft flight envelope of the aircraft is pushed against the limit.
I'm loving the process of learning the F-4 and your channel always helps. I'm also happy with all the great JASDF paint schemes.
The thing that makes this fight interesting is that the missiles from this era weren't as advanced, so the flares actually work. That means that even with the other fighter square in the HUD and a clean missile lock, the fight isn't decided just yet. With the newer planes and newer missiles you can get a maginal lock and the target plane can be spamming flares but the fight was already decided when the missile is launched.
The missiles used in Vietnam were even less advanced than the ones used here (which look like 9Ls). The 9B/D/E couldn't lock unless you had a rear aspect shot at the bandit. The 9L could lock front aspect, but was still not very flare resistant. The 9M could resist flares a bit better, and the 9X completely ignores them most of the time
Oh boy @GrowlingSidewinder, I have been waiting for this video. I really struggled with the F4E vs the Mig21 and F5E, but figured out I had to stay fast 0.7 to 0.9 and I even lock the slats in to try to keep as much energy as possible, but found that I was able to out rate both the Mig 21 and F5E...just do not get greedy and pull..once you are slow its all over. Also vertical has not been working to well, even against the F5E...
Always nice to be able to boom n zoom in jets, just like the F-14B vs Rafale video!
I've been watching your vids for a while.... and I've often thought that you've moved in for the kill before you actually won the fight. With off-boresight locks and highly maneuverable missiles you can get away with that approach... not so with early missiles (or guns).
These two engagements were a perfect example of winning the fight before taking the shot.
Bravo -- I think Mouse would approve.
From my experience in a MiG 21 guns only fight against F4’s, they almost always cook me in a 2 circle fight but when I get the chance and switch to 1 circle the tables turn pretty quickly in my favor if I get them slow trying to avoid my nose. From there rolling over the top and dropping down on the bandit has been pretty lethal
So, the F-4 is infamous for NOT having any guns... yet, they have them here.
Odd...
I think the F4E variant had a internal M61 on the nose
That mig pilot was crafty.
See if you can get 4 other guys to MiG-17 Frescos, have them do the North Vietnamese "wagon wheel" tactic (a Lufbery circle), and you, flying the Phantom, try and defeat as many as you can using the slashing attack.
Dont think we have MiG 17s on dcs yet.
Seriously... who are you? Former/current jet jockey? Your understanding of dog fighting and the terminology used feels like you either did or do this for a living in the real world. Excellent videos, my friend!
It’s funny how I got really excited from the last kill!
Great video! It'd be awesome to see Hellenic Phantoms in the Balkans, thanks!🎉
I think this is an example of why at the end of the day there is a difference between reality and simulation. In Iran-Iraq war, a short time after start of the war, Iraqis mig 21 s started to avoid Phantoms and this lasted till the end of the war. They let Mig-23s engage. Iranian Phantoms were quite confident against Mig-21s. And actually even against Mig-23s. I guess better pilot trainings was a big factor.
thumbnail very appetizing, keep it up sidewinder ❤
all of these paintjobs look so good
I was rooting for that plucky MiG-21 in the first fight. Any chance to see YOU flying the Fishbed against the Phantom any time soon?
GS could have successfully applied the Hi-Speed Yo-Yo against the second mig at least 3 times. Just a thought.
Would be cool to see a battle between the F-4F ICE and the Mig-21 Bison
This settles down Phantom vs Fishbed argument nicely- MiG can turn...for 1 circle then becomes a prey. There is a reason why NVAF used them for ambush, not dogfight.
Day one of asking for cesna 172 vs cesna 172 with beer cans. Let's go!!
F-4 vs. F1 would be nice too.
Can you include a tacview review - these are really useful. Thanks.
its interesting to see how much separation you have between each other on these vietnam era dogfights compared to the modern fighters were you can hardly get close enough
Wow. So the F4 DID have a chance in Vietnam!
Would love to see you fly an F15 against a MiG 21.
That JASDF paint job sure looks good on that F-4!
Dont think i've seen anyone else cut burner like this person did- i see you were fighting someone else who knows the factors that make Fox2's extra deadly!
Day 90 / Vid 48 of bugging ya to take the Mig 31 foxhound for a spin!
technically, Chinese never had this variant of mig21. J7s all have a kind of bubble canopy. The only j7 variant came close was j7iii, but it was never fielded.
I would like to see the A-29 super Tucano in action, just like the A-10 missions that you do.
Reason, more and more countries are using this aircraft to do air to ground attack (drug factories in South America) or even support troops in Afghanistan (former Afghan government) nonetheless, it also can be used to intercept airplanes, (mainly those carrying drugs), since Honduras acquired 10 units of the A-29 it has reduced the illicit air track into 80%.
Another great vid. F-4 vs Mig 19 Farmer next please.
F4 vs f5, f104, F8 crusader, A4. All the other US options in Vietnam to determine if it was really the best of it's time.
I like that the helmet reflection tracks where you are looking
Great vid as always, loving the F4 stuff. Somehow I kinda like the fact that it's capabilities seem so limited compared to the 4th & 5th Gen fighters of today, but the victories are more satisfying. You get the feeling that you did that, not the computer, not the fly by wire, you did it. Also, does the F4 drogue chute cover look like a smiley face or is it my imagination?
These chess match style air battles are pretty engrossing, enjoy it, thanks
"Call it what you want, doesn't matter now" had me rolling.
Man what I'd give for a proper MiG-23 model for an actual PvP dogfight between it and the F-4
I'm curious to see how real fighter pilots fair in a DCS dogfight in their respective aircraft. I think it would be interesting to see what parts of the simulator don't translate to real life.
Yo, hate to tell ya, always rooting for my fishbed.
I noticed your flag changed from Japanese to USAF from the first fight to the second. I also investigated the guns on the F4. The F4E has a 20 mm internal gun. While watching I did not observe the standard gun pod slung underneath and had to investigate why your F4 phantom did not have one.
A JASDF F-4EJ against a PLAAF MiG-21, epic!!
Would love to see you try your hand at flying the Me-262 A1/U4 variant with the single 50mm gun, hunting bombers or striking ground targets.
Omg Japanese Paints are so good!
Just for giggles… I know DCS doesn’t have them but would love to see
F-4 v Tie, Mig 21 v X-Wing, F-5 v N1, and Draken v Tie Int
you could always call it a fishbed to save the model designation issues lol
Two fighters so emblematic for their time.
I enjoy the phantom and the new jester 2.0 but I don't feel like he calls out my speed often enough. He's real good about it in the tomcat which is super helpful in these situations
I thought your last Fox 2 kill shot was within the WEZ. Were earlier weapons and countermeasures different? Asking because I'm not a DCS guy but love your content.
ya so did I to be honest, the closure was much more than I thought but ya those fox2s will surprise you sometimes.
You should do Mig-23 vs F-4E
IDKY, but seeing ole Double Ugly always makes me smile. ^_^
I don't understand how the F-4 can come even close to beating the MiG-21 in a rate fight. 🤔
Also 2 c130s spookys going at it would be absolutely hysterical
Finally get to see the F-4 gun in action
Finally some basis of dogfighting with the F4
I'd like to see you do some fights starting defensive. It would be an interesting change of pace.
Love your stuff bud! LOve the phantom!
Great video once again GS... What a beauty...!!!
That Blue paint job is my favorite.
1:55 duplicated the Top Gun shoulder patch almost exactly.
Since WW2 Japanese aircraft always had the best paint schemes!
Love the phabulous phantom!
I know theres a Mig 19 module, and ive heard of an effort to get a Mig 17 out.. i feel like maybe thats already out... So, im curious about some Vietnam era mockups. Maybe from some famed encouters of aces like Olds or Cunningham.
*It's difficult to tell, but it seems your opponents are getting better/used to your tactics.* Do a vid series where you fight them in the plane they are best in and see if you can beat them!
I would love to see the f4 do some BVR as it was originaly designed to do. A fight they wouldn't let happen in vietnam due to the fear of friendly fire.
Another great video, thank you
I would like to see the F4 versus make 17 and mid-19s like they were encountered in the Vietnam eras
I grew up watching dog fights and remember a lot about those battles it would be cool for you to recreate some of that
F-4 vs. Warthog sounds interesting
Video idea: I-16 Donkey vs Su-57 Felon
That f4 in Japanese colors looks great!
Still waiting for GS to drop the BF3 F-18 mission “Going Hunting”
Dam that's a good mig21 driver
I know you already have your branding all set up, but after watching so many videos wherein you slowly squeeze the hope from your opponents, "Patient Anaconda" may be more accurate.
Hi buddy, I find your video’s pretty amazing. Really enjoyed watching all of them. Your comments are top notch, like your tone of voice. However, I’ve always wondered since you were in enemy territory with a F-22, how would the sim go if you had 6 SU-57 looking for you? What I want to say is that can you push the limit’s further..Let’s see?
I'm starting to think that a major factor working against the F4 was the limitations of the missiles it carried.