I had watched and loved DS9 multiple times and much of TNG multiple times as well, but somehow had missed or forgotten this one until a couple years ago. Really satisfying to see O'Brien knocking it out of the park even before becoming main cast. You have to assume this episode is one of the reasons why he was asked to upgrade to a bigger role.
@@jerodast absolutely, that’s what I always thought. This episode gave him a great backstory to expand upon in DS9. He was like the blue collar part of Starfleet that was largely ignored.
For sure, Colm really was able to emote feelings, I certainly would have liked to hang out with his character, and I don't really hang out with too many People.
@@carminemurray6624 Miles was a regular man that consistently rose to every occasion but still liked to kick back with a beer, he was ridiculously gifted but was still relatable and could talk other stuff than engineering.
U.S.M.C. or U.S. Army or U.S. Air force, or U.S. Navy or now U.S. Space force, in the end there is no difference. Old Soldiers never die, they just fade away.......
There's a beautiful callback to this scene a decade later. The soundtrack in O'Brien's final scene in DS9 features the first few notes of the Minstrel Boy.
@@intotheharmony5597 There's a youtube video called "What You Leave Behind Memories". The video differs from the actual episode (editing Worf's flashback), but the scene with O'Brien at the very beginning is unaltered. The Minstrel Boy is at the 20 second mark.
This was Star Trek. This was everything Star Trek. What this was has faded to the depths of time for some, but for the rest of us, this was Star Trek...and it was beautiful.
I started my trek journey recently, about 1.5 years ago. I had seen the Kelvin timeline movies long ago and Discovery's 1st season as well, but it never really got me hooked on, untill I randomly decided watch ST Voyager during the 1st pandemic and got hooked on for good and became a trekkie for life. Saw ENT, TNG + TNG movies, TOS + movies, TAS and currently on s6 of DS9 thereafter. (quite a haphazard order). And have to say TNG is my no 1 so far!
I hold back tears every time they finish the song. It's when the orchestra quietly swells the song again while Captain Maxwell concedes, "I'm not going to win this one, am I Chief?" "No sir." The way he looks off in the distance, a great general having fought his last fight, yielding at last to the Federation he sacrificed so much to protect. The song signaling the end of his last battle. My heart breaks to see it.
It's also a sign that however far humanity has come we are still fundamentally human, with the same needs and emotions as we do now. Maxwell suffered a great loss in the war, and it seems that he never received the help he needed. Now we're seeing it all come to the surface. Nice to see that even centuries down the line we'll still be human.
@@howardlanus8610 Yep I agree. I did feel bad for maxwell since he ended up being validated twice over; Picard smelled through gul macet's BS, and only took maxwell to protect the fragile peace both sides currently enjoyed, and then later on the cardies sided against the feds in the dominion war. He was the right general at the wrong time. Like captain Jellico
One of my favorite scenes in all of Star Trek. And one of the ideas that I love about good Star Trek. For me Star Trek isn't about the surface ideas of cool technology, or strange new worlds and new civilizations, the pew pews or the boldly going (although all of that makes for entertaining television). For me Star Trek isn't about the exploration of other planets or "aliens", it's about exploring what it is to be human. This scene does so much to bring this far away future right into our living rooms, to connect in a way that other sci-fi doesn't.
In fairness, it's not that Picard didn't agree with Maxwell on the possibility of war. He tells Macet that Starfleet would be watching the Cardassians now that it appeared that they were coming close to violating the spirit of the treaty, even if they didn't violate the letter. And Picard didn't want to start a war, which is why told Madred to let Central Command know that he knew. Besides, it took joining the Dominion before the Cardassians actually became a threat.
Federation Council was full of pacifists who spat in the face of anyone in the Federation trying to take a stance of of taking up arms. If Picard defied the direct order he was given, they would've come down hard on him and destroyed him much harder than they were going to with Maxwell.
The noblest thing that old soldiers do for their comrades long gone is to remember them. A toast to absent friends, a favorite song, old photographs, and so much more. For when the old soldiers are gone, how will the fallen be truly remembered when those that knew them have gone to join them? The living must record the stories of every battle and event. Too many are missing. They deserve to be remembered.
This is Maxwell's only appearance in "Trek" canon, and O'Brien was still mostly a supporting character at this point, yet Gunton and Meaney turn in great performances that clearly communicate their characters' relationship and invest the viewers.
I wish that there was a full recording of Minstrel Boy sung by Colm Meaney. So many recordings of this song are bombastic and over orchestrated. The true beauty is in how the gentle singing shows the tragedy of loss and the bonds between those who survive.
For the film "Black Hawk Down" they do a great version for the end credits, with the singers voice sounding like he's coming over a portable radio, but the chorus of voices that breaks in will get you, I promise it will.
"You were with me on Setlick. You saw what they did." And you're going to side against me too? "Yes, sir." I was. I did. And I will. And with that, Maxwell gives up. His own loyal crew member who was with him in the worst part of the war and saw everything he did, is telling him to stop.
That shot of The Enterprise looming through his Ready Room window, while he just stands there glaring at it, waiting for Picard to see sense and back down is fantastic. As is, when Miles just tells him straight, “He Won’t *Do* That, Sir.”
@@michaelfinlay6341 Picard was all about orders even when forcibly relocating colonist to appease Cardassians, went so far as to tell Wesley he did not belong in a star fleet uniform if he was not willing to blindly follow orders, only to later do far more then Wesley did, taking up arms to violate orders... If only that colony had a MILF Picard took a liking to like the Baku did.
@@maddslothii2532 Picard wasn't going to remove the settlers just because of orders, he was doing it to not spark another war. He tried everything he could to help the settlers and eventually organised a compromise.
@@diccchocolate416 You have to be blind to not see the parallels between "Journey's End" and "Nemesis". Picard took up Wesley's roll in "Nemesis" and defied orders to defend a people being forcibly removed (as ordered by Star Fleet) from their homes, only where Wesley spoke out against it, Picard took up arms to do so. Compromise: When your government gives away your home because it is unwilling to actually try and win a war with an inferior genocidal nation, then gets upset that you don't agree to their betrayal. They agree to leave you to the nonexistent mercy of those butchers for "the greater good" creating the Maquis, people forced to do what is right rather then what is easy... and labeling them traitors. PICARD: What if these Indians refuse to be evacuated? NECHEYEV: Then your orders will be to remove them by whatever means are necessary. I understand your moral objections, Captain. If you wish, I can find someone else to command the Enterprise for this mission. PICARD: That will not be necessary, Admiral. PICARD: Inexcusable. You defied the orders of the ranking officer on the scene. You put the lives of the entire away team in jeopardy, and you made an already tense situation worse. Your actions reflect very badly on this ship and on that uniform. Now, I want an explanation, Mister Crusher, and I want it now. WESLEY: What you're doing down there is wrong. These people are not some random group of colonists. They're a unique culture with a history that predates the Federation and Starfleet. PICARD: That does not alter the fact that my orders are to WESLEY: I know Admiral Necheyev gave you an order, and she was given an order from the Federation Council. But it's still wrong. PICARD: That decision is not yours to make, Cadet. I don't know what has got into you lately, and frankly right now I don't care. But I will tell you this. While you wear that uniform, you will obey every order you're given and you will conform to Starfleet regulations and rules of conduct. Is that clear? WESLEY: Yes, sir, it is. But I won't be wearing this uniform any longer. I'm resigning from the Academy. (Wesley puts his comm. badge on the table and leaves)
@@maddslothii2532 the Maquis colonists sparked the war in the first place, eh? By settling on worlds the Cardassians had claimed first, against the wishes of the Federation council. But despite that recklessness that had led to 25+ years of border wars, the colonists were still welcomed back with open arms when the two powers came to an agreement. They were offered the chance of new homes, away from the border. And the colonists still refused to move. It was a border Starfleet was unsure they could protect, after Wolf 359. The Federation was never going to fight a war with Cardassia, invade Cardassia, not like that. Not when negotiation and compromise had a chance. They certainly weren't going to be able to garrison the Cardassian Union, keep the peace there, even if they had won. And if they had just ruined Cardassia and left, who would have moved in? The Tholians, the Romulans? Who knows? Better the devil they knew. The handful of worlds traded in the truce weren't worth the war. If the colonists had seen sense, they would have taken the offer to relocate, get the hell away from the Cardassian border. What sort of maniac sticks around when their planet is suddenly in Cardassian space!?
War is a very difficult and painful thing to finally recover from. Even in the universe of Star Trek. Colm Meaney and Bob Gunton both made this scene very special for Trekkers.
"I wasn't there to see it, but I heard Pressman started sobbing like a little girl when they took him away. Maxwell had no intention of going that quietly."
I have no idea to this day what those two Irish men were singing about. Truth is, I don't want to know. Some things are best left unsaid. I'd like to think they were singing about something so beautiful, it can't be expressed in words, and makes your heart ache because of it. I tell you, those voices soared higher and farther than anybody in a gray place dares to dream. It was like some beautiful bird flapped into our drab little cage and made those walls dissolve away, and for the briefest of moments, every last man on the USS Phoenix felt free.
@@Axemantitan The meaning of the song is in the lyrics if you listen to them. Will Kayden, the puppy that would follow O'Brien around, was the minstrel boy. A warrior bard. He fell in battle. In the song, the bard was wounded, tore apart the cords of his harp, so that it may never be played in slavery, a sign of defiance against tyranny. It is the tale of Ireland and those who fought for its freedom. In this case its a song of remembrance for those who died fighting the Cardassians during the massacre at Setlik III.
I wonder if there is a hidden meaning in O'Brien soloing on the last line. He was the one "faithful harp" who believed Captain Maxwell ("praise thee"), but still did his duty nonetheless.
War war ruins men . Its just the way it is . He knew him before the war destroyed him and stood by him as he fell . All men fall . He showed his love before he fell . That's a warrior that's the brotherhood . That's life
Maxwell stops singing because he realizes that his crew are the faithful swords who are about to engage in a doomed cause not because they want to but because of loyalty to him. He goes silent because he realizes that even if he's willing to die for this, he's not willing to sacrifice an entire crew for it, especially if the Enterprise will destroy them before they accomplish anything. In the end, Maxwell is a hero because he not only draws Starfleet's attention to the Cardassian military buildup (Picard makes it clear that he's going to include in his report the opinion that Maxwell had guessed correctly and the Cardassians were preparing to invade, plus we see in later episodes that the Federation becomes much more actively vigilant in monitoring Cardassian activity), but because he knows when to stop: having achieved that goal of protecting the Federation by opening its eyes, he avoids dragging it into an all-out war it's not yet ready for, which allows the Federation to pursue security objectives through peaceful means, including closer cooperation with Bajor and taking stewardship of DS9. Even Sun-Tzu said that winning battles isn't the pinnacle of generalship; the pinnacle is to balk the enemy's plans entirely, and that's precisely what Maxwell's surrender allows Picard and the Federation to do, at least until the Dominion changes the game. "Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities." --Sun-Tzu, The Art of War
Man... this is another one of those 90s Star Trek scenes that I can't help but get a lump in my throat whenever I watch it... another is in "Duets" when he finally breaks down and sobs, that one really does make me shed a tear or two.
I wish I could show this scene to the writers of Discovery and Picard, over and over again until they understand that scenes like this are the soul, the beating heart and everything TNG represented
While I agree that discovery is largely lacking in scenes and moments of this caliber that it forgets that some of the absolute best moments in trek where some of the cheapest to make with literally just people talking I feel personally the the ending to Discovery season 4 was the first time it felt truly like Trek because while yes it had action it was resolved by diplomacy and understanding
You had Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise, SJ bs to the max. They had free reign for first 2 years, then paramount started clamping down on them. For any fool to even believe that Kurtzman, Paradise, Secret labs did ST justice is and could actually watch STD/PIC, I'll say it again: these people are so stupid and the entire cast is a hodgepodge of stupidity. There is no forgiveness to such stupid people and CBS/Paramount for hiring the dumbest SJ people and then trying to say old ST fans are bigots ?!? racists ?!? discriminatory ?!? screw all NuTrek fans that say that, they so morally broke and stupid I don't even bother wanting to reason with the nutcases.
Not a chance this scene could ever be recreated today, two white male actors stealing the scene is a big no no for a group of people who occupy adult bodies but operate with childlike minds.
@@duozero00 I believe in credit where it's due but in that case it was most likely an accident on their part. They miraculously fumbled their way into a half-decent finish.
The minstrel boy to the war is gone In the ranks of death you'll find him His father's sword he hath girded on And his wild harp slung behind him "Land of Song" cried the warrior bard "Tho' all the world betrays thee One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard One faithful harp shall praise thee" The minstrel fell but the foeman's chain Could not bring that proud soul under The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again For he tore its chords asunder And said, "No chains shall sully thee Thou soul of love and brav'ry Thy songs were made for the pure and free They shall never sound in slavery
Yeah before the woke bunch got a hold of the franchise. There have been times when I felt the same way, I knew it was bs but it didn't matter I was going to lose anyway.
@@GeorgeSemel lol, you didn't pay much attention to old Star Trek if you believe that only now it is "woke". From Uhura kissing Kirk a year before MLK's assassination, to the introduction of the gender fluid Trill race in TNG, and the plethora of anti-colonialist episodes in TNG, the unambiguous anti-capitalist messaging throughout all of Star Trek and especially in in the DS9 episode "Past Tense", the commentary on racial justice in "Far Beyond the Stars". Old Star Trek had black captains, women captains, black women captains, interracial relationships, male Enterprise crew members wearing skirts. Old Star Trek had gender-queer characters, women doctors, men talking to other men about their feelings, women talking to women about things other than men. Old Star Trek was thoroughly anti-capitalist, anti-colonialist, and "far left". For you to be surprised or disappointed that new Star Trek shows lean more into presentation of LGBTQ relationships tells me that you were never really paying attention to Star Trek.
The ugliest scars are from unseen wounds. The sad thing is, Captain Maxwell was right in a way. The Cardassians were stockpiling weaponry. It was never mentioned what happened to him during and after the Dominion War. Captain Maxwell likely never commanded a ship again, but a mind like his would be invaluable. If his story was to be expanded, a probable path would be for him to be at headquarters on probation. I don't know what the actual canon would be, but that's what I would've written.
You don´t get dialogue and scenery of almost Shakespearean quality like this from nowadays Star Trek series nor TV in general. Even the "bad guys" have great lines and their good points. The whole episode is pure gold.
If this was written by the hack writers of today's so-called Star Trek Maxwell would've dropped a few f bombs and other swearing at OBrien just because the writers think it sounds cool to have peolle swearing on tv...
The first time I ever heard Minstral Boy was when I went on a Star Trek kick when I was 17, I watched the entire Next Generation and DS9 over like, three months. Since then Minstral Boy has become one of my most loved and listened to songs. I got hit real bad with depression and axiaty when I graduated first highschool, then when Lockdown hit, and finally when I graduated Uni. Somehow, despite how sad this song is, it helped me through it every time.
This is the scene that sent me on a quest to find the best orchestral version of Minstrel Boy. Still have not found one as good as this French horn solo.
This is one of the best episodes in Star Trek. Dealing with PSTD with soldiers who can’t let the war go, I think one of the strength of this episode that the focus wasn’t on the core characters it was on O’brien unlisted officer .
There are two episodes of series television I hold above all others -- this episode of Star Trek, and "Out Where the Buses Don't Run," an episode of Miami Vice. In both cases, it's a guest star (Bob Gunton here, Bruce McGill in the other) that provides the catalyst. The scene with Gunton and Colm Meaney, the two of them singing "The Minstrel Boy" in unison, I will never forget -- while the orchestra plays the cue behind Gunton's key line and the red lights flash away in the background. No CGI, no crazy special effects ... just great writing, acting, music and some cheap red lights and you end up with this masterpiece. I still remember where I was when I first saw the episode. We didn't get TNG "live" where I lived; we got repeats in syndication. I was watching this at 2 a.m. at my parents' house while home from college. After this scene closed, I remember realizing that I had literally slid out to the edge of my seat, and was almost kneeling in the floor like a baseball catcher awaiting the pitch. It was all because of these three minutes, these lines and that song. It didn't hurt that Gunton reminded me of both my dad and my dad's younger brother. As in, they looked very much alike. And one of my uncle's best friends? A man named Ben Maxwell. I'm sure that had something to do with my affection for Gunton and his work. I'm not one to idolize actors or otherwise famous people, but I'm familiar with Gunton's work on behalf of veterans, and always wished I would have the opportunity to thank him for this episode. It is by far my favorite episode of this entire franchise.
He showed his acting chops here and I loved that he was transferred to DS9. He shined on the station. He was the only one who knew how to keep it working😂
Brilliant scene. Similar in content but very different in style to the ending of Rambo First Blood. „The war is over“ - „nothing is over, nothing!! You just don’t turn it off!!“
I like to think that the last thing that went through his head, other than that song, was to wonder how the hell Jean-Luc Picard ever got the best of him.
Maxwell : Picard if you don't board that ship i'll destroy it Picard : Then i will use whatever force is necessary to prevent you from taking that action Captain .
Deepest most prefound scene in cinematic history. hay to everyone facing your fight or final show i salute you. go out with a smile. dont give the fookers the satisfaction. for you lucky many who still have time cherish it . fix your wrongs..make peace even when your in the right. time is precious. live . love and be kind to everyone . peace . see you on the other side brothers and sisters. over and out .
This scene is the epitome of Star Trek. Yes there's war in the future, yes there are atrocities that come with it, but there is always the opportunity for diplomacy, and the chance that a few kind and calming words can de escalate a potential tragedy. Wonderful scene.
Something else here about the caliber of man Maxwell was: everyone respected him here, even if they thought he’d gone over the edge. Never do you see or hear that the Phoenix command staff or crew attempt to stop him. We can only assume they trust & respect him the way the Enterprise crew trust & respect Jean Luc. In the Ready Room Picard talked to him like an equal. You can see the Enterprise crew don’t really like this mission, they’re just following orders to keep the peace. O’Brien knows Maxwell has gone too far but you can see & hear that under different circumstances he’d still follow the man into hell itself. I know the Picard series has been controversial and often disappointing but during the Episode “No Win Scenario” the Wolf 359 survivor story from Captain Shaw reminded me of this TNG episode - a Starfleet officer who saw war and still never fully recovered from it years later. Hopefully these kind of Star Trek moments will be more common in today’s shows.
I'm not Irish, but this song became part of my mental playlist because of this show, back when I was a teen, and I hum it to myself often enough, still, now in middle age.
@@imperator3199 Goddamn them all! I was told we'd cruise the seas for American shores We fired no guns! She'd no tears! I'm a broken man of a hallifax peer The last of Barret's Privateers
Great scene. You know what movie scene this reminds me of? The ending of First Blood when Trautman goes in to talk some sense into Rambo, and Rambo pours his heart out to him.
1:05 A spectacular representation of a brave soldier, now battling with himself. Consumed by the sins commited against him by the enemy, and the sins he himself had to commit against them. Now battling his own inner demons, the PTSD instilled in him through fierce combat. Masterfully acted. 2:28 Just beautiful. 🫡
Maxwell hid his PTSD well up until this episode. It was expected of him to "do his duty." In his situation, I would've expected him to break down on his knees crying after hearing about his family. Unlike Picard who focused solely on his career, Maxwell knew who was waiting for him after his duty was completed because he made the time to have a family. When the war took that away from him, Maxwell had only his career and that didn't fill the void left by his wife and children being gone. Once he correctly deduced that the Cardassians were gathering weapons, he took it upon himself to see that no other captain or officer who made the time for a family while serving in Starfleet would feel the emptiness he now had in his heart. Maxwell was alive, but he had stopped living. He had high hopes for his children. A piece of bad intelligence on the Cardassians part shattered those hopes. Maxwell breaking down into almost tears before O'Brien confirmed that this crusade would go nowhere but trouble was him finally facing his own demons.
Likely this might have been the scene that convinced the producers of STDS9 to make Colm Meaney one of the central cast members; both he and Bob Gunton in this scene (and episode) are superb.
I'd like to think that the last thing that went through his head, other than that phaser blast , was to wonder how the hell Gul Dukat ever got the best of him.
I've unfortunately never really been able to get into DS9. Despite trying several times, it's never really been able to grab my attention the same way TNG and some of the other series have. I wish I could get into it because I'm sure there's a good story in there.
@@ZombieRyushu Yeah, the space station setting is kind of off-putting IMO. Plus, almost every crew member seems to hate the others and everybody is mad all the time. Too much drama for me. That's my real issue I guess, I don't really like any of the characters.
@@kingcrimson234 Try watching with an episode guide. DS9 episodes are either complete shit or really good. It's greatest strength is building out the lore of Star Trek in a way that enhances watches of TNG. Mainly the Cardassians become extremely interesting where they were previously very boring. Bajor shows the perspective of a single new federation planet who isn't 100% sold on the Federation kool-aid and is even considering an alliance with their previous oppressors. The Federation is shown to be imperfect and Starfleet officers sometimes have doubt or even leave entirely, but its still shown as a good ideal unlike the newer shows. The Ferengi are somehow slowly redeemed from horrible stereotypes and made into inspiring characters. Finally a lot of the characters have flaws that they work through over the series. Yes the drama can be a bit overdone sometimes but there are a lot of good character development episodes: case in point Keiko and Miles have a real marriage in DS9 - you know with actual feelings and all that!! Highly recommend pushing through and just skipping the embarrassingly bad episodes, you might not be a fan of the series but there's some good lore there
You don't get scenes like this from Star Trek amymore, or TV in general and it really is a shame. They think audiences no longer have the patience for profound dialogue and development and that's where I must respectfully disagree
You really don't. I dunno if it's the audience or just the peons that ran the franchise into the ground, but yeah.... I will always mourn that we will never get a Trek this great ever again.
No way possible. His actions here are career ending, he would never be trusted by anyone ever again. After time in prison he would be irrelevant, while the rising stars in Starfleet who follow orders take over and Maxwell just becomes a distant memory. No, unfortunately the best that he'd get is to eventually be released from a rehabilitation colony and take up a hobby.
This is where Colm Meaney took a background character and made him into a legend
I had watched and loved DS9 multiple times and much of TNG multiple times as well, but somehow had missed or forgotten this one until a couple years ago. Really satisfying to see O'Brien knocking it out of the park even before becoming main cast. You have to assume this episode is one of the reasons why he was asked to upgrade to a bigger role.
@@jerodast absolutely, that’s what I always thought. This episode gave him a great backstory to expand upon in DS9. He was like the blue collar part of Starfleet that was largely ignored.
For sure, Colm really was able to emote feelings, I certainly would have liked to hang out with his character, and I don't really hang out with too many People.
@@carminemurray6624 Miles was a regular man that consistently rose to every occasion but still liked to kick back with a beer, he was ridiculously gifted but was still relatable and could talk other stuff than engineering.
Goddamn right.
o7
The scene is even more powerful when you know Bob Gunton (Maxwell) is a Bronze Star recipient Marine Corps vet from the Vietnam War.
US Army, actually, but yes I totally agree
@@Tranefine Whoops, you're right, I mixed up his service branch
I would have upvoted this, but when you hit a number like "69" (or 42, 1337, 666, etc.), it's really hard to ruin that. ;)
Had no idea he was a veteran, let alone a Bronze Star recipient. This will make it harder to dislike him in The Shawshank Redemption.
U.S.M.C. or U.S. Army or U.S. Air force, or U.S. Navy or now U.S. Space force, in the end there is no difference.
Old Soldiers never die, they just fade away.......
"I'm not gonna win this one, am I, Chief?"
"No, sir."
There's a beautiful callback to this scene a decade later. The soundtrack in O'Brien's final scene in DS9 features the first few notes of the Minstrel Boy.
Seriously? That's amazing.
@@intotheharmony5597 There's a youtube video called "What You Leave Behind Memories". The video differs from the actual episode (editing Worf's flashback), but the scene with O'Brien at the very beginning is unaltered. The Minstrel Boy is at the 20 second mark.
This was Star Trek. This was everything Star Trek. What this was has faded to the depths of time for some, but for the rest of us, this was Star Trek...and it was beautiful.
Star Trek will never be this intelligent and well-written again, and it's sad. This is basically peak ST, and it was amazing.
@@kingcrimson234 'Yes Sir!'
This is the golden age of Startrek
@@FL-gg4dq Wouldn't the Golden Age be the original series? None of these other series would ever have existed without it.
I started my trek journey recently, about 1.5 years ago. I had seen the Kelvin timeline movies long ago and Discovery's 1st season as well, but it never really got me hooked on, untill I randomly decided watch ST Voyager during the 1st pandemic and got hooked on for good and became a trekkie for life. Saw ENT, TNG + TNG movies, TOS + movies, TAS and currently on s6 of DS9 thereafter. (quite a haphazard order). And have to say TNG is my no 1 so far!
"It's not you I hate, Cardassian; I hate what I became because of you".
I hold back tears every time they finish the song. It's when the orchestra quietly swells the song again while Captain Maxwell concedes, "I'm not going to win this one, am I Chief?" "No sir." The way he looks off in the distance, a great general having fought his last fight, yielding at last to the Federation he sacrificed so much to protect. The song signaling the end of his last battle. My heart breaks to see it.
It's also a sign that however far humanity has come we are still fundamentally human, with the same needs and emotions as we do now. Maxwell suffered a great loss in the war, and it seems that he never received the help he needed. Now we're seeing it all come to the surface.
Nice to see that even centuries down the line we'll still be human.
Yes 1000000 times
@@howardlanus8610 Yep I agree.
I did feel bad for maxwell since he ended up being validated twice over; Picard smelled through gul macet's BS, and only took maxwell to protect the fragile peace both sides currently enjoyed, and then later on the cardies sided against the feds in the dominion war.
He was the right general at the wrong time. Like captain Jellico
A good man, Captain Maxwell, lost. Too bad this Captain could not be in other episodes. Would have like to have saw more of this character.
One of my favorite scenes in all of Star Trek. And one of the ideas that I love about good Star Trek. For me Star Trek isn't about the surface ideas of cool technology, or strange new worlds and new civilizations, the pew pews or the boldly going (although all of that makes for entertaining television). For me Star Trek isn't about the exploration of other planets or "aliens", it's about exploring what it is to be human. This scene does so much to bring this far away future right into our living rooms, to connect in a way that other sci-fi doesn't.
“We may pity him… but we shall not dismiss him.”
Colm meaney is an amazing actor
Yes he is--in everything he does. And he isn't typecast--he plays diverse roles.
He is amazing in Hell On Wheels
Yes he is.
@@Dregkar Was going to say this. It's one of the few I re-watch occasionally.
And just a few years later, Maxwell would tell Picard, I told you so.
In fairness, it's not that Picard didn't agree with Maxwell on the possibility of war. He tells Macet that Starfleet would be watching the Cardassians now that it appeared that they were coming close to violating the spirit of the treaty, even if they didn't violate the letter. And Picard didn't want to start a war, which is why told Madred to let Central Command know that he knew. Besides, it took joining the Dominion before the Cardassians actually became a threat.
Picard was there to protect the peace.
@@joekerr3638 A peace that he firmly believed was in the interest of both their peoples.
As someone above me stated, Picard was under orders to keep the peace. After Wolf 359, Starfleet was in pretty bad shape.
Federation Council was full of pacifists who spat in the face of anyone in the Federation trying to take a stance of of taking up arms. If Picard defied the direct order he was given, they would've come down hard on him and destroyed him much harder than they were going to with Maxwell.
“Children who will never have the chance to grow up…” that sentence never hit me that hard until I became a father.
That image of two soldiers singing the favorite song of one of their dead comrades' is so sad and noble
The noblest thing that old soldiers do for their comrades long gone is to remember them. A toast to absent friends, a favorite song, old photographs, and so much more. For when the old soldiers are gone, how will the fallen be truly remembered when those that knew them have gone to join them? The living must record the stories of every battle and event. Too many are missing. They deserve to be remembered.
This is Maxwell's only appearance in "Trek" canon, and O'Brien was still mostly a supporting character at this point, yet Gunton and Meaney turn in great performances that clearly communicate their characters' relationship and invest the viewers.
I wish that there was a full recording of Minstrel Boy sung by Colm Meaney. So many recordings of this song are bombastic and over orchestrated. The true beauty is in how the gentle singing shows the tragedy of loss and the bonds between those who survive.
For the film "Black Hawk Down" they do a great version for the end credits, with the singers voice sounding like he's coming over a portable radio, but the chorus of voices that breaks in will get you, I promise it will.
@@thekevinjmiller love thst version. Joe Strummer amd the Mescaleros
You see through to the truth of a thing. Nicely elucidated.
Tell me about it.
@@thekevinjmiller I know... :)
"You were with me on Setlick. You saw what they did." And you're going to side against me too?
"Yes, sir." I was. I did. And I will.
And with that, Maxwell gives up. His own loyal crew member who was with him in the worst part of the war and saw everything he did, is telling him to stop.
That shot of The Enterprise looming through his Ready Room window, while he just stands there glaring at it, waiting for Picard to see sense and back down is fantastic.
As is, when Miles just tells him straight,
“He Won’t *Do* That, Sir.”
Picard had his orders. He was ready to put Maxwell down for good, even if he didn't want to.
@@michaelfinlay6341 Picard was all about orders even when forcibly relocating colonist to appease Cardassians, went so far as to tell Wesley he did not belong in a star fleet uniform if he was not willing to blindly follow orders, only to later do far more then Wesley did, taking up arms to violate orders... If only that colony had a MILF Picard took a liking to like the Baku did.
@@maddslothii2532 Picard wasn't going to remove the settlers just because of orders, he was doing it to not spark another war. He tried everything he could to help the settlers and eventually organised a compromise.
@@diccchocolate416 You have to be blind to not see the parallels between "Journey's End" and "Nemesis". Picard took up Wesley's roll in "Nemesis" and defied orders to defend a people being forcibly removed (as ordered by Star Fleet) from their homes, only where Wesley spoke out against it, Picard took up arms to do so.
Compromise: When your government gives away your home because it is unwilling to actually try and win a war with an inferior genocidal nation, then gets upset that you don't agree to their betrayal. They agree to leave you to the nonexistent mercy of those butchers for "the greater good" creating the Maquis, people forced to do what is right rather then what is easy... and labeling them traitors.
PICARD: What if these Indians refuse to be evacuated?
NECHEYEV: Then your orders will be to remove them by whatever means are necessary. I understand your moral objections, Captain. If you wish, I can find someone else to command the Enterprise for this mission.
PICARD: That will not be necessary, Admiral.
PICARD: Inexcusable. You defied the orders of the ranking officer on the scene. You put the lives of the entire away team in jeopardy, and you made an already tense situation worse. Your actions reflect very badly on this ship and on that uniform. Now, I want an explanation, Mister Crusher, and I want it now.
WESLEY: What you're doing down there is wrong. These people are not some random group of colonists. They're a unique culture with a history that predates the Federation and Starfleet.
PICARD: That does not alter the fact that my orders are to
WESLEY: I know Admiral Necheyev gave you an order, and she was given an order from the Federation Council. But it's still wrong.
PICARD: That decision is not yours to make, Cadet. I don't know what has got into you lately, and frankly right now I don't care. But I will tell you this. While you wear that uniform, you will obey every order you're given and you will conform to Starfleet regulations and rules of conduct. Is that clear?
WESLEY: Yes, sir, it is. But I won't be wearing this uniform any longer. I'm resigning from the Academy.
(Wesley puts his comm. badge on the table and leaves)
@@maddslothii2532 the Maquis colonists sparked the war in the first place, eh? By settling on worlds the Cardassians had claimed first, against the wishes of the Federation council. But despite that recklessness that had led to 25+ years of border wars, the colonists were still welcomed back with open arms when the two powers came to an agreement. They were offered the chance of new homes, away from the border. And the colonists still refused to move.
It was a border Starfleet was unsure they could protect, after Wolf 359. The Federation was never going to fight a war with Cardassia, invade Cardassia, not like that. Not when negotiation and compromise had a chance. They certainly weren't going to be able to garrison the Cardassian Union, keep the peace there, even if they had won. And if they had just ruined Cardassia and left, who would have moved in? The Tholians, the Romulans? Who knows? Better the devil they knew.
The handful of worlds traded in the truce weren't worth the war. If the colonists had seen sense, they would have taken the offer to relocate, get the hell away from the Cardassian border. What sort of maniac sticks around when their planet is suddenly in Cardassian space!?
War is a very difficult and painful thing to finally recover from. Even in the universe of Star Trek. Colm Meaney and Bob Gunton both made this scene very special for Trekkers.
War plus losing you family and you surviving impossible. ( your kids )
... and Trekkies.
"I wasn't there to see it, but I heard Pressman started sobbing like a little girl when they took him away.
Maxwell had no intention of going that quietly."
I have no idea to this day what those two Irish men were singing about. Truth is, I don't want to know. Some things are best left unsaid. I'd like to think they were singing about something so beautiful, it can't be expressed in words, and makes your heart ache because of it. I tell you, those voices soared higher and farther than anybody in a gray place dares to dream. It was like some beautiful bird flapped into our drab little cage and made those walls dissolve away, and for the briefest of moments, every last man on the USS Phoenix felt free.
@@Axemantitan My mother-in-law was Scottish and knew this song well. We sang it together in her final months, her voice in full Scot brough.
@@Axemantitan The meaning of the song is in the lyrics if you listen to them. Will Kayden, the puppy that would follow O'Brien around, was the minstrel boy. A warrior bard.
He fell in battle. In the song, the bard was wounded, tore apart the cords of his harp, so that it may never be played in slavery, a sign of defiance against tyranny. It is the tale of Ireland and those who fought for its freedom. In this case its a song of remembrance for those who died fighting the Cardassians during the massacre at Setlik III.
@@The_Gallowglass Hes paraphrasing a great dialogue by Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption
Great reference! 😂👌
I wonder if there is a hidden meaning in O'Brien soloing on the last line. He was the one "faithful harp" who believed Captain Maxwell ("praise thee"), but still did his duty nonetheless.
That's one interpretation. Another is that while Maxwell's reputation is ruined, O'Brien will always remember him as a great captain and friend.
@@phlip82 That or he forgot the words. :D
War war ruins men . Its just the way it is . He knew him before the war destroyed him and stood by him as he fell . All men fall . He showed his love before he fell . That's a warrior that's the brotherhood . That's life
I thought it was "One faithful heart"
Maxwell stops singing because he realizes that his crew are the faithful swords who are about to engage in a doomed cause not because they want to but because of loyalty to him. He goes silent because he realizes that even if he's willing to die for this, he's not willing to sacrifice an entire crew for it, especially if the Enterprise will destroy them before they accomplish anything.
In the end, Maxwell is a hero because he not only draws Starfleet's attention to the Cardassian military buildup (Picard makes it clear that he's going to include in his report the opinion that Maxwell had guessed correctly and the Cardassians were preparing to invade, plus we see in later episodes that the Federation becomes much more actively vigilant in monitoring Cardassian activity), but because he knows when to stop: having achieved that goal of protecting the Federation by opening its eyes, he avoids dragging it into an all-out war it's not yet ready for, which allows the Federation to pursue security objectives through peaceful means, including closer cooperation with Bajor and taking stewardship of DS9.
Even Sun-Tzu said that winning battles isn't the pinnacle of generalship; the pinnacle is to balk the enemy's plans entirely, and that's precisely what Maxwell's surrender allows Picard and the Federation to do, at least until the Dominion changes the game.
"Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities." --Sun-Tzu, The Art of War
This honestly feels like Colm Meaney’s audition tape for DS9
Man... this is another one of those 90s Star Trek scenes that I can't help but get a lump in my throat whenever I watch it... another is in "Duets" when he finally breaks down and sobs, that one really does make me shed a tear or two.
I wish I could show this scene to the writers of Discovery and Picard, over and over again until they understand that scenes like this are the soul, the beating heart and everything TNG represented
While I agree that discovery is largely lacking in scenes and moments of this caliber that it forgets that some of the absolute best moments in trek where some of the cheapest to make with literally just people talking I feel personally the the ending to Discovery season 4 was the first time it felt truly like Trek because while yes it had action it was resolved by diplomacy and understanding
You had Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise, SJ bs to the max. They had free reign for first 2 years, then paramount started clamping down on them. For any fool to even believe that Kurtzman, Paradise, Secret labs did ST justice is and could actually watch STD/PIC, I'll say it again: these people are so stupid and the entire cast is a hodgepodge of stupidity. There is no forgiveness to such stupid people and CBS/Paramount for hiring the dumbest SJ people and then trying to say old ST fans are bigots ?!? racists ?!? discriminatory ?!? screw all NuTrek fans that say that, they so morally broke and stupid I don't even bother wanting to reason with the nutcases.
Not a chance this scene could ever be recreated today, two white male actors stealing the scene is a big no no for a group of people who occupy adult bodies but operate with childlike minds.
@@duozero00 I believe in credit where it's due but in that case it was most likely an accident on their part. They miraculously fumbled their way into a half-decent finish.
I saw only Picard season 3, based on comments that it was much better than the first two seasons, and I thought it was great.
"I'm not gonna win this one, am I chief?" might be the most powerful line in the show.
There is an effective use of silence in this.
The timing in this scene was critical, and they pulled it off with ease.
The minstrel boy to the war is gone
In the ranks of death you'll find him
His father's sword he hath girded on
And his wild harp slung behind him
"Land of Song" cried the warrior bard
"Tho' all the world betrays thee
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard
One faithful harp shall praise thee"
The minstrel fell but the foeman's chain
Could not bring that proud soul under
The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again
For he tore its chords asunder
And said, "No chains shall sully thee
Thou soul of love and brav'ry
Thy songs were made for the pure and free
They shall never sound in slavery
Pin this comment!
Back when Star Trek still meant something beautiful.
Yeah before the woke bunch got a hold of the franchise. There have been times when I felt the same way, I knew it was bs but it didn't matter I was going to lose anyway.
@@GeorgeSemel bruh, Data literally let his kid choose what gender to be.
Star Trek still means something beautiful, no matter what comes after it.
@@GeorgeSemel lol, you didn't pay much attention to old Star Trek if you believe that only now it is "woke". From Uhura kissing Kirk a year before MLK's assassination, to the introduction of the gender fluid Trill race in TNG, and the plethora of anti-colonialist episodes in TNG, the unambiguous anti-capitalist messaging throughout all of Star Trek and especially in in the DS9 episode "Past Tense", the commentary on racial justice in "Far Beyond the Stars". Old Star Trek had black captains, women captains, black women captains, interracial relationships, male Enterprise crew members wearing skirts. Old Star Trek had gender-queer characters, women doctors, men talking to other men about their feelings, women talking to women about things other than men. Old Star Trek was thoroughly anti-capitalist, anti-colonialist, and "far left". For you to be surprised or disappointed that new Star Trek shows lean more into presentation of LGBTQ relationships tells me that you were never really paying attention to Star Trek.
@@GeorgeSemel Star Trek has always been Progressive. You haters don't get it.
@@triomegazero Seconded.
The sounds of a desperate man who could not find peace after what he saw in war.
Bob Gunton just knocks this episode out the park!
His performance is one of the reasons why this is my fave TNG episode.
The ugliest scars are from unseen wounds. The sad thing is, Captain Maxwell was right in a way. The Cardassians were stockpiling weaponry. It was never mentioned what happened to him during and after the Dominion War. Captain Maxwell likely never commanded a ship again, but a mind like his would be invaluable. If his story was to be expanded, a probable path would be for him to be at headquarters on probation. I don't know what the actual canon would be, but that's what I would've written.
The incredible flip is the last scene where Picard reveals Maxwell had been totally right about what was on the Cardassian ship.
"Sir, there *is* no war."
-Miles "Cardie Crusher" O'Brian, a few years before his life got very interesting.
the "children who never had a chance to grew up" line is hitting heavily for me after Uvalde
You don´t get dialogue and scenery of almost Shakespearean quality like this from nowadays Star Trek series nor TV in general. Even the "bad guys" have great lines and their good points. The whole episode is pure gold.
What a GREAT scene. Bob Gunton is a master character actor.
It was scenes like this that transcended sci fi. Really brilliant character actors with a great script.
"how the devil did you get over here?" That line still gets me to this day lol
O'Brien was many things. And a genius was just one of them.
If this was written by the hack writers of today's so-called Star Trek Maxwell would've dropped a few f bombs and other swearing at OBrien just because the writers think it sounds cool to have peolle swearing on tv...
The first time I ever heard Minstral Boy was when I went on a Star Trek kick when I was 17, I watched the entire Next Generation and DS9 over like, three months. Since then Minstral Boy has become one of my most loved and listened to songs. I got hit real bad with depression and axiaty when I graduated first highschool, then when Lockdown hit, and finally when I graduated Uni. Somehow, despite how sad this song is, it helped me through it every time.
I miss this Star Trek.
This is the scene that sent me on a quest to find the best orchestral version of Minstrel Boy.
Still have not found one as good as this French horn solo.
Bob Gunton (sorry if I spelled wrong) it’s such a great character actor. He kills it in everything he’s in.
This is one of the best episodes in Star Trek. Dealing with PSTD with soldiers who can’t let the war go, I think one of the strength of this episode that the focus wasn’t on the core characters it was on O’brien unlisted officer .
I love his look of realization, the only reason this sweet moment happens if because he’s already lost, and he’s simply being humoured.
Soooooo powerful. What a scene. The beauty is beyond words.
Bob Gunton is one of my favorite actors of all time.
[French Horns] "I'm not going to win this am I chief" ... [french horns swell] [camera shifts to O'Brien] ... "No Sir."
Brilliant scene. My fave TNG episode. Thanks so much for posting.
There are two episodes of series television I hold above all others -- this episode of Star Trek, and "Out Where the Buses Don't Run," an episode of Miami Vice. In both cases, it's a guest star (Bob Gunton here, Bruce McGill in the other) that provides the catalyst. The scene with Gunton and Colm Meaney, the two of them singing "The Minstrel Boy" in unison, I will never forget -- while the orchestra plays the cue behind Gunton's key line and the red lights flash away in the background.
No CGI, no crazy special effects ... just great writing, acting, music and some cheap red lights and you end up with this masterpiece.
I still remember where I was when I first saw the episode. We didn't get TNG "live" where I lived; we got repeats in syndication. I was watching this at 2 a.m. at my parents' house while home from college. After this scene closed, I remember realizing that I had literally slid out to the edge of my seat, and was almost kneeling in the floor like a baseball catcher awaiting the pitch. It was all because of these three minutes, these lines and that song.
It didn't hurt that Gunton reminded me of both my dad and my dad's younger brother. As in, they looked very much alike. And one of my uncle's best friends? A man named Ben Maxwell. I'm sure that had something to do with my affection for Gunton and his work.
I'm not one to idolize actors or otherwise famous people, but I'm familiar with Gunton's work on behalf of veterans, and always wished I would have the opportunity to thank him for this episode. It is by far my favorite episode of this entire franchise.
He showed his acting chops here and I loved that he was transferred to DS9. He shined on the station. He was the only one who knew how to keep it working😂
Brilliant scene. Similar in content but very different in style to the ending of Rambo First Blood. „The war is over“ - „nothing is over, nothing!! You just don’t turn it off!!“
"You and Stompy were thick as thieves..."
Of all the wonderful characters on Star Trek, Chief O’ Brien was my favorite. Colm did such a fabulous job.
Damn that song still gives me chills when they sing it...
I like to think that the last thing that went through his head, other than that song, was to wonder how the hell Jean-Luc Picard ever got the best of him.
This scene is just so beautiful. This is what elevated TNG above other shows.
Maxwell : Picard if you don't board that ship i'll destroy it Picard : Then i will use whatever force is necessary to prevent you from taking that action Captain .
Deepest most prefound scene in cinematic history. hay to everyone facing your fight or final show i salute you. go out with a smile. dont give the fookers the satisfaction.
for you lucky many who still have time cherish it . fix your wrongs..make peace even when your in the right. time is precious. live . love and be kind to everyone . peace . see you on the other side brothers and sisters. over and out .
✌☮
One of the greatest scenes in all of Star Trek, if not THE best, arguably ....
This scene is the epitome of Star Trek. Yes there's war in the future, yes there are atrocities that come with it, but there is always the opportunity for diplomacy, and the chance that a few kind and calming words can de escalate a potential tragedy. Wonderful scene.
Gotta love Bob Gunton… playing a great badass here, very talented actor
He was right. The war wasn't over. Just a calm before the storm.
It’s just as I am always telling people :
Try to Understand - A Leader Should *SING..!*
Captain Maxwell, how can you be so obtuse?
What did you call me?
@@BlackIce3190 Obtuse, is it deliberate?
@@ChristopherPayneMUA Son, you are forgetting yourself.
@@BlackIce3190 Starfleet will have his old timecards, records, W2s with his name and rank on them...
Something else here about the caliber of man Maxwell was: everyone respected him here, even if they thought he’d gone over the edge. Never do you see or hear that the Phoenix command staff or crew attempt to stop him. We can only assume they trust & respect him the way the Enterprise crew trust & respect Jean Luc. In the Ready Room Picard talked to him like an equal. You can see the Enterprise crew don’t really like this mission, they’re just following orders to keep the peace. O’Brien knows Maxwell has gone too far but you can see & hear that under different circumstances he’d still follow the man into hell itself. I know the Picard series has been controversial and often disappointing but during the Episode “No Win Scenario” the Wolf 359 survivor story from Captain Shaw reminded me of this TNG episode - a Starfleet officer who saw war and still never fully recovered from it years later. Hopefully these kind of Star Trek moments will be more common in today’s shows.
As others have said, one of the best episodes in Star Trek (and televison history).
It was a disgrace that chief O’Brien was never in any of the movies
I imagine that with Mr. Meaney, time and money were a factor, since he was filming DS9 at the time. Worf being in TNG films was a given.
One of the best scenes in the series!
This scene, the akng particularly, always makes me misty eyed.
Moments like this are the core of Star Trek.
Wow this makes me cry 😢 all the time.
I'm not going to win this one am I chef?
No sir.😢
Excellent acting writing and directing which created this perfect masterpiece.
For me, this is the best scene in this series.
Goosebumps.
I'm not Irish, but this song became part of my mental playlist because of this show, back when I was a teen, and I hum it to myself often enough, still, now in middle age.
I'm proud of O'Brien. He'd make one hell of a cheese monger.
Warden Norton lives!
“What was that song he was always singing?”
“Oh, the year was 1778...”
*How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now!*
A letter of marque came from the King, to the scummiest vessle I'd ever seen
@@imperator3199 Goddamn them all!
I was told we'd cruise the seas for American shores
We fired no guns!
She'd no tears!
I'm a broken man of a hallifax peer
The last of Barret's Privateers
@@geoffwilliams4478 cause I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateeeeeeeers
For some reason Maxwell's speech at the beginning reminded me of current events.
Great scene. You know what movie scene this reminds me of? The ending of First Blood when Trautman goes in to talk some sense into Rambo, and Rambo pours his heart out to him.
A great moment in a great series...
When there’s righteous fighting to be done, there’s usually an Irishman around.
1:05 A spectacular representation of a brave soldier, now battling with himself. Consumed by the sins commited against him by the enemy, and the sins he himself had to commit against them. Now battling his own inner demons, the PTSD instilled in him through fierce combat. Masterfully acted. 2:28 Just beautiful. 🫡
Maxwell hid his PTSD well up until this episode. It was expected of him to "do his duty." In his situation, I would've expected him to break down on his knees crying after hearing about his family. Unlike Picard who focused solely on his career, Maxwell knew who was waiting for him after his duty was completed because he made the time to have a family. When the war took that away from him, Maxwell had only his career and that didn't fill the void left by his wife and children being gone. Once he correctly deduced that the Cardassians were gathering weapons, he took it upon himself to see that no other captain or officer who made the time for a family while serving in Starfleet would feel the emptiness he now had in his heart. Maxwell was alive, but he had stopped living. He had high hopes for his children. A piece of bad intelligence on the Cardassians part shattered those hopes. Maxwell breaking down into almost tears before O'Brien confirmed that this crusade would go nowhere but trouble was him finally facing his own demons.
Top three Star Trek scenes of all time.
"Captain, you must stop!"
"Nothing stops. Nothing!"
Miles O'Brien everyone, the most powerful techno warrior in the universe.
Picard wasn't going fire on a starfleet ship to stop Maxwell. He was going to do it to protect the peace.
Likely this might have been the scene that convinced the producers of STDS9 to make Colm Meaney one of the central cast members; both he and Bob Gunton in this scene (and episode) are superb.
I'd like to think that the last thing that went through his head, other than that phaser blast , was to wonder how the hell Gul Dukat ever got the best of him.
Bloody hell..... 🥲❤
The interesting thing is, I wonder if he knew that what he is doing here, would cause the Cardassians to ally with the Dominion?
I've unfortunately never really been able to get into DS9. Despite trying several times, it's never really been able to grab my attention the same way TNG and some of the other series have.
I wish I could get into it because I'm sure there's a good story in there.
@@kingcrimson234 It's not the same show.
@@ZombieRyushu Yeah, the space station setting is kind of off-putting IMO. Plus, almost every crew member seems to hate the others and everybody is mad all the time. Too much drama for me. That's my real issue I guess, I don't really like any of the characters.
@@kingcrimson234 Yeah.
@@kingcrimson234 Try watching with an episode guide. DS9 episodes are either complete shit or really good. It's greatest strength is building out the lore of Star Trek in a way that enhances watches of TNG. Mainly the Cardassians become extremely interesting where they were previously very boring. Bajor shows the perspective of a single new federation planet who isn't 100% sold on the Federation kool-aid and is even considering an alliance with their previous oppressors. The Federation is shown to be imperfect and Starfleet officers sometimes have doubt or even leave entirely, but its still shown as a good ideal unlike the newer shows. The Ferengi are somehow slowly redeemed from horrible stereotypes and made into inspiring characters. Finally a lot of the characters have flaws that they work through over the series. Yes the drama can be a bit overdone sometimes but there are a lot of good character development episodes: case in point Keiko and Miles have a real marriage in DS9 - you know with actual feelings and all that!!
Highly recommend pushing through and just skipping the embarrassingly bad episodes, you might not be a fan of the series but there's some good lore there
You don't get scenes like this from Star Trek amymore, or TV in general and it really is a shame. They think audiences no longer have the patience for profound dialogue and development and that's where I must respectfully disagree
You really don't. I dunno if it's the audience or just the peons that ran the franchise into the ground, but yeah.... I will always mourn that we will never get a Trek this great ever again.
Scenes like this were the best from Star Trek.
If they made this today, there would have been 7 space battles and two sex scenes in this episode. The dumbing down of society
@@WobblesandBeanStrange New Worlds tries. I like it, but it still doesn't quite hit the mark. You will never see a scene quite like this in SNW.
I forgot how beautiful this scene was.
I wonder if this haunts O'brien he betrayed a good man who was doing the right thing only to fight a yet another war
I wonder if Maxwell ever got command back during the Dominion War
There are a couple of novels (so, beta canon) about what happened to him after this episode. memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Benjamin_Maxwell
There are times when I thought that myself but knowing how strict starfleet was I doubt it
I suspect that they would, after things became dire. He'd the perfect soldier against the spoon heads.
@@michaelfinlay6341 Especially after the Breen attacked.
No way possible. His actions here are career ending, he would never be trusted by anyone ever again. After time in prison he would be irrelevant, while the rising stars in Starfleet who follow orders take over and Maxwell just becomes a distant memory. No, unfortunately the best that he'd get is to eventually be released from a rehabilitation colony and take up a hobby.
This scene got him ds9. Such a talent
“We’re not gonna get good Star Trek again, are we chief?”
☹️ “no, sir”
kek
Minstrel Boy
It's all over, the war is over
The way Dennis McCarthy composed an orchestral version of The Mistrel Boy to play at the end... (3:23)
Black hawk down! 🥺