Slice Engineering's Insane $1,000 Hotend
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
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For those about to ask who needs this hotend, it really it comes down to industrial users with $50k machines that want to be able to print twice as fast.
That $1k investment saves them $50k on buying another printer.
Do I need it? No.
Do you need it? Probably not.
Does someone else need it? Maybe!
I mean, it's not that expensive...It's like 3x Ender 3 S1, but you get much more bragging rights, so I figure it's worth it.
@@astrumrocket6556 Install that in an ender 3 :)
Then maybe they should stop doing bogus patent takedowns on companies (and even individuals!) making parts that aren't for $50k industrial printers.
@@atnfn No no, my budget would allow me to have either 3 enders, or a single hotend. No negotiation. /s
A goliath looks better/same for 1/7 of the price
1) make a very good hotend
2) patent something you didn’t even invented in the first place
3) get confident and release an overpriced UHF Hotend
4) no hobbyist uses or showcases it except one super friendly guy with his DIY high speed printer, providing advertisement for your brand
5) the same guy makes his own hotend that outperforms yours in every point
6) send your patent lawyers at him to sink his project despite sharing no similarities with your design
7) he nearly gives up but sells his hotend anyways
8) write a response where you insult nearly every aspect of the DIY community
9) loose respect from every hobbyist consumer
10) « Slice Engineering is proud to announce its move forward to industrial 3D printing »
thank goodness vez changed his hotend so it does not violate the patent alr, and can be sold worldwide :) and "industrial" doesnt really need those flow rates, large nozzles and low resolution isnt really what industrial needs, if they are looking for that a pellet printer is prob good. if you see what they are printing with that hotend its just useless toys lol
Pretty sure companies are buying these. There are a number of other features, like redundant sensors/heaters, multi zone heatbreak, internal flow splitter, specialized coatings, etc.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Not sure about how good slice's coating is, but I know the Goliath's one is Zirconia internal coated, which is SUPER hard and abrasive resistant at very high temperatures. Abt redundant sensors, ok... Internal flow splitter and heaters are not really useful as long as the hotend performs same/better (which according to tests, goliath is). Goliath is also lighter and more rigidly mounted (3 points for ceramic core to heatbreak, instead of 2)
@@NathanBuildsRobots oh Im not doubting that, I entirely recognise the performance of their product.
I was pointing out how they lost a big part of their customer base
I see nothing nefarious about the patent. The use of tubing lowers the manufacturing cost, reduces the heat conduction and improves strength. It's an improvement over solid spacers, so patenting it is fair. It will not kill any competing products. All they have to do is refrain from using hollow spacers at the heating block.
This looks like the VZbot Goliath. Just twice as heavy, no insulation and almost 10x the price... I guess we know why Slice tried to stop that design... Though one interesting part of it is the included CHT splitter, though now you can't cold pull it lol.
Edit: Oh, and the Goliath can do PLA @ 118mm3/s with a 0.4mm nozzle, Slices 116mm3/s is with a 0.8mm nozzle rofl.
This is how the industrial/commercial side of 3D printing works. Stratasys just purchased desktop metal for 1.5 billion. They were essentially buying their patent portfolio, which is insanely extensive. Look it up
No... sorry No hotend in the world can do that flow with a 0.4. 😅 not even goliath. The hole is just too small to push that amount of plastic.
He got the numbers wrong, but his point is still valid about Slice Engineering ridiculous pricing when your hotend design is potentially better for a fraction of the price. Love your work and your channel btw, big fan!
@@Vez3D It's just a matter of pressure. If you had a hydraulic press behind it you could easily push 150+ mm³/s through 0.4 mm hole. The melting power is there.
@dalias prints yes but then when you over-pressurize the hot zone it prints like crap. So thats why you have to let it flow. Thats the punch line of the Goliath :)
One question that I feel is missing here is, "Does/could it work with pellets?". At 0,5kg per hour, the cost difference between pellets and filament really adds up.
I agree, pellets make more sense for large high flow systems. However, if you want to use a smaller nozzle, with smaller more precise features, filament fed still might make more sense. Plus when you start to look at overall consistency and repeatability, and compositing options filament fed might actually be better for many applications.
@@NathanBuildsRobots For sure it would for many applications. What I'm interested in is if it's an option. Or perhaps could it do both in some way? Now that would be something! Similar how there's an interesting (and I feel little known) detail that Bondtech CHT nozzles can take both 1.75 and 2.85mm filament. Doesn't sound like it's important since majority of printers use 1.75mm filament, but the option of it is nice!
Right now, I'm building a printer that might use a pellet extruder in the future, and the options are kind of low, my current favorite being the Mahor V4, and it's price is not far of from the 1000$ one from the video, but it has half the flow rate.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Why would you want a hotend with this kind of flowrate for 0.4 mm nozzles? Makes no sense.
Lol at the end. Im no theif, but that was comically, a flawless performance.
I don’t think he noticed. It’s running in my Ender 3 right now!
@@NathanBuildsRobots 🤐🤣
So its like double volcano connected with heatbreak we were making as a community in 2010 ... now its patented ?
I will never purchase anything from this trolling company
As someone who operates a trolling company, this offends me.
@@NathanBuildsRobotsshould have asked them who is next on their litigation list.
Not buying their product is something something and leads to CEO ranting about communism.
You’re right, he was wrong to bring up communism. All we want to do is to take his intellectual property and distribute it to everyone in the 3D printing community in a more equitable way.
@@NathanBuildsRobotsw it makes sense why they went after Vez's hotend. Vez and mellow went to market before this was ready. They're definitely afraid of competition. But honestly, it's misplaced. This hotend and the mellow vz are in the same class. One is aimed at the professional space and the other for enthusiasts. Also, going after Vez's hotend for the 4 screw mounting system when that design was done in the printing community long before they decided to patent it.
So the hundred-dollar Chinese clones should be out in about a month?? Lol
You can get super long melt zone hotends already. Trianglelabs and Mellow/Vez have some new offerings, and super volcano has been a thing for a while now.
Goliath can do 50% more flow for like 10% of the price. His claim of highest flow on the market is just an outright lie. What you'd expect from this sleazy company...
What flow can Goliath do? Haven’t seen the numbers on that
@@NathanBuildsRobots I've seen it do 160 or so before becoming unprintable (skipping etc.)
@@daliasprints9798 I've heard people have mirrored slices' testing setup on goliath and managed greater flow. I think saying 160 is very optimistic however slice in the past has been unbelievably optimistic with their listed flow.
@@NathanBuildsRobots That is correct, with slice's setup (nozzle size, etc) the goliath could achieve 116 with PLA easily without underextrusion. They are just happily ignoring that after trying to remove it, but they failed. They patent should not exist (it doesnt meet correct conditions), yet they are trying to use it. but they have since changed the design to not fit the patent so it can be sold anywhere now. a goliath is much much better, and dont buy from slice pls, very scummy behaviour. It is not the world's "fastest hotend", thats just such a happy lie. look at his face when he said it, he knows it's a lie
Looks surprisingly like the Goliath (LSD) from Vez. Hmm, didn't S.E. slap him with a Cease and Desist order right after the Goliath was released. All makes sense now doesn't it. Say what you will about IP, but the patent system in most countries is terrible, and basically serves to stifle innovation. IMHO, the likes of S.E. and Stratasys have set back residential 3D printing many years now.
Everything they are doing is legal. If you don’t like it, write your senator and get the laws changed.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Patents are a good thing, not arguing that. It's just that when a company is blocking an entire field from progress, like Stratasys did with their enclosed printer patent, or Slice with their hot end spacers, it isn't that great. *especially* when said company sits around and doesn't develop products further.
The Stratasys enclosure patent expiring has opened the floodgates for affordable and good quality printers. What used to be $100k+ can now be bought for less than $2k.
@@NathanBuildsRobotsI really enjoy your content, but that is a stupid response.
This is good advice.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Legal is not the same thing as admirable, or even ethical. Community pressure on Slice is far more likely to effect change than petioning a Senator to change patent laws. I'm not saying it's likely to change the way Slice does business, but the likelihood of patent law being overhauled over something like this is so infinitesimal your advice can easily be confused as bad faith advice.
Vz bot’s Goliath will beat this for 1/6th the price. Nobody likes slice because of how disrespectful they are to small makers.
Nathan making videos: 👍
Nathan interviewing: 👌👌👌
I can print this fast with just a regular hotend that I made at home.
Let’s see it!
This is surprising. Why is a clone of the Goliath more expensive than the Goliath itself?
Looks like they need to coat Nathan's hands with that non-sticky stuff.
No thanks but I’ll take some boron nitride paste!
Patenting screw layouts and calling it innovation to stifle competition, just the usual bs-move of a company exploiting weak laws.
Sorry that is how patents work. Can we update the laws in a way that suits your worldview? Would be nice.
I wonder what the practical applications are for a hot end with that kind of flow rate.
They were working in some partnership’s but couldn’t disclose. I’ll have to follow up once they have them installed on some machines
Can’t wait to slap the Trianglelabs version on my FYSTEC MK4 clone once their available
No trolls allowed!
One could get a much better hotend for 10% of the price (Vez3D Goliath/LSD) For 90% of the community I'm certain this is a hard pass from such a troll of a company in this market.
Does it still take 1.75 mm filament? The extruder would have to be flying to keep up with 116 mm^3/s
apparently it does at half kilo of filament an hour
Thata pretty much the orbiters limit before loosing torque due to high rpms. But true, at this kind of flow rate 2,85 would be better suited. As for extruder the lgx would likely be the base extruder or one of bondtechs fat planetary gear extruders
I imagine it could accept both but I don’t know for sure
@@jamesharris9894 sorry, the limit of a orbiter is 120mm/s, not 120mm3/s. The 120mm3/s result in a feed rate of only 50mm/s so a fast retract for a direct drive extruder
I’d be so stoked about this, especially because I have 3 machines running magnum+. But why is $1000…? And why couldn’t you just make this as an add-on to the magnum+ or why can’t I just buy the lower part and swap it with my current equipment.
Because industry dont even notice the price difference so they can charge what ever they like. Besides the Goliath hotend by the VZBot team is just as good and is 10th the price.
their litigation behaviour actually stopped me from buying their products
Cool wonder if it fits on a ender 3
It should fit!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Next video question mark?
Depends on if Slice will send me one because I can not afford a $1000 hotend 😢🍽️
Anyone able to help me find the STL at 1:37? Got a 1.4mm nozzle I want to dump this print out with.
Idk, looks like a vase mode print
4:06 Mercedes sue them. They using your logo that is patented
Better be made of fucking solid PCD for that cost.
PCD? I should have talked to the diamondback folks
Sidenote I’m wondering if their magical coating is just “Diamond Like Carbon” (DLC). *Seems* like it would fit the role, granted may not be it who knows.
Wow! Impressive! When it becomes mainstream in the future, I guess I have to order a truckload of 10kg spools of filaments.
Should do a 10 kg spool in 1 day
HMM.....
Did they license that PATENTED flow splitting geometry?
At least it's more innovating than just copying a basic engineering principle and patenting it.... smh
The screw+spacer/tube design is patented by them, hence why some newer hotends had to come up with stupid* solutions around it.
Also: there were already hotends that did that before and were open-source...
Still wondering how the phaetus dragon is still around as that is the closest copy to that principle. The rapido bypasses that by not using spacers and the dropeffect xg does some wild things to move around the patent
Not sure, the old dragons may have been infringing but the newer ones may have been redesigned with the kinematic coupling. I could figure out if I checked my old footage
There’s almost always a way around patents, just put your thinking cap on!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Old Dragons were infringing, the Dragon UHF uses a different system that is allowed and NeXt G Dragon uses the Kinematic Coupling from the XG.
@@nonchalanto You missed my point :)
slice, the company known for patenting things that they really shouldn't ,
im going to pretend like their patents are fine and get straight to the point
at 4:09 does that not look like the solex core heating technology? that is also patented?
i thought only bondtech had an agreement to let them use core heating?
so is the patent company breaking patents, what a surprise from slice
(i love your videos by the way i have nothing against you :D )
I believe they are partnered with Bondtech to license the technology. This isn’t a violation, it’s the patent system working as intended.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I did a bit of research and couldn't seem to find any reference to them working together
on the list of patents used by slice engineering on the mosquito prime it shows
US 10875244
US 11660810
CN 110770002
US D905768
US D980882
and there is no reference to licencing it from 3d solex or bondtech
i then did a bit more research and still couldn't find anything referencing it
idk
It doesnr affect me so i will just forget it and try to not be a pest in the comment section
It needs to be so expensive because getting patents and litigating small companies into the ground is expensive!
Well, i'd rather support Vez than any other company, not just slice.
Wait? They split the filament like a cht? Hope they got the rights to use it. ;)
Patent trolling doesent pay for itself LOL!
Designing things and patenting them is not patent trolling... it's just what patenting is
@@nonchalanto Look up the VZbot Goliath, pretty much same concept as this one. Slice tried to stop that design, and now they just launched their own copy of it.
@@nonchalanto Is it a copy if they were being developed at the same time? Can't copy something that doesn't exist yet...
@@nonchalanto Vez had his first prototype up and running over a year ago. What Slice did was they hit him with a cease and desist AFTER it was released about 6 months ago. And supposedly Vez was in contact with Slice well before this since he used spacers between the cold and hot side, something that Slice had patented. But it wasn't an exact copy of this design, the only thing Slice had to go on was those spacers.
The design of the hotend itself had nothing to do with it.
@@nonchalanto you are wrong the only thing Silica had on the Goilth was a stupid spacer design and then they decided to rush this trash Hot end because. no offense but it's crazy you can even get a patent on something as stupid as spacers. this hot end is definitely a clone of Vez Goliath's hot end and Silica tried to stop it because of SPACERS
Trolls both oh no 😂
Not sure what you’re talking about, thanks for watching! Hope you have an AMAZING day!
So who’s actually gonna test this 1k hotend? Imagine the extreme disappointment when its only marginally better
I’ll test it! Sign me up
I need that!!!! (maybe not need it, but I want it!)
Future is awesome!
I'd rather buy a bambulab for that price😂
Enjoy the Gulag
any application where this would be useful at full flow bambu wouldnt be a good alternative
That is a good point, bambu tops out around 12-24mm depending on material
@@NathanBuildsRobots What is it with you inferring peeps are communists? I really don't understand, am I missing the joke??
yeah ill buy that on Ali for 35 bucks in a couple of months thank you. "Aircraft Aluminum"...gtfo
It’s not CHT, it’s a Mercedes logo.
Engineer was nice, will never buy or reccomend slice products though. Better, cheaper, open-source stuff out there, lets keep it that way.
Open source? Why you didn't attack him? 😂
In many cases if you tried to sell to a “real company”, as in a business to business sale, and you said your product was open source, they would laugh at you and ask where they can get the files.
It’s different in the hobby market, because we have little access to manufacturing. So if it’s open source we’re going to buy it anyways, but reproducing someone else’s design is trivial in the real world. So you need IP protection of some kind.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Guess we aren’t allowed to use good ideas that other people come up with, but at the same time we should attack anyone who doesn’t embrace open source. [The 3D printing community in a nutshell]. By Nathan builds robots.
By the way where the robots? 😂
"Aircraft grade aluminium" you may know it as 6061, big whoop "it looks like a Mercedes logo" The marketing boys in the back room have your cue cards ready, drop those lines. Quality BS sprinkles.
oh no the patent trolls 😭
The real Trolls are in the comments section
Seems NBR is getting ratio'd all over the place and coping hard. I guess the affiliate link has nothing to do his change of demeanor 🤔
You’re right, money is the only thing capable of changing peoples minds.
How dare you draw attention to the affiliate links provided by my benevolent hosts. Remember to use code NBR for 5% off!
@@NathanBuildsRobotslolll i agree the people that watch your videos are especially bad to you. it makes me sad because i dont think you deserve it. on the other hand i think slice has an impact on way more people and is kinda just trash for that. they're a large company and they act like it. i hate large companies with a passion.
@@ballbous what in the chronically online speak are you saying
Will Mercedes be speaking to Slice for the use of their patent?
you are confusing trademark with patent.
did you get away with it?
Not yet.
Goliath copy
I just ordered this! Thank you Nathan Builds Robots for recommending this TREMENDOUS PRODUCT! I'm going to tell EVERYONE I'm in contact with about this gear. We're going to SWAMP Slice Engineering's business with ORDERS!
That’s what I’m talking about! And remember to use code NBR to save 5% 💰💰💰💰
@@NathanBuildsRobots ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
Hell yeah! Go Slice!