And its so true. Any true villain never actually sees themselves as a villain. In the worst cases, they often are ignoring their sins and focusing on whatever justification for their actions. Once they acknowledge that sin, it is a huge weight to even try to take the steps to somehow rectify what you have done.
To be fair, Star Wars is a universe where people can travel lightyears for the most trivial things. Heck, some people IRL drive their car to places that are only two-minutes of walking distance away.
"Those are titles. Words you cling to as the darkness falls around you." Damn Obsidian really knows how to set up atmosphere with only a few words. I can visualize an increasingly isolated Atris slowly warping her own mind at fear of the Sith and that fear turning into hatred and aggression and that aggression taking her down the dark side without her even knowing it
This game was so fucking ahead of its time. As a kid, I never truly understood Kreia's character. Now as an adult, it's quite twisted and brilliant how she was able to manipulate others to get her way.
Indeed... there is a word in the English language; a term people again use to categorize things; a term held in the same light as psychopathy and narcissism... the third leg of the Dark Triad -- the word is "Machiavellian". Google it. Kreia is one of the finer examples of such a psychological and ethical phenomenon in all of fiction...
''I would not be surprised if Revan left other gifts beneath the surface of the planet'' Meanwhile... *Ineffectual command* Stop! *Ineffectual command* We command you to stop!
Ah Atris, your love for the Exile, long buried, finally revealed- and so she realized the depth of her failure, just how far she had fallen, all because she couldn't voice her feelings. Truly a perfect example of the failure of the Jedi- and the Sith, all in one.
Jason Does Anime it also shows how human it is. And how such things spoken or not can lead to regrets that if left buried can fester inside. It could be applied to real life as well thats what makes this game so powerful.
@@lukiieeee8478 How ignorant. Love can apply for all sentients, to all sentients, ESPECIALLY unrequited love. And it is the passion of love, denied... love thwarted, that can twist to become the passion of hatred, rage, or betrayal.
@@Aeroldoth3 That is not what I meant tho, if you play as a female exile, Atris doesnt love you, she instead looks up to you and respects you as a jedi, thus when you broke your jedi oath, she becomes disillusioned. That is why I stated that the unrequited love storyline is only applicable to a male exile.
this is how you write female characters! Kreia, Meetra, Atris all of them have flaws, weakness, strength, believes, dark side, grey side and light side and not a marry sue
Insert Original Name Here - Yes, but some people cling to the idea there must be different standards (this is what the comment is criticizing). The irony of what Disney has done with Rey is that they seem to have internalized sexist attitudes about female characters instead of writing her like any other character. HOWEVER, I honestly think that Rey would be just as overpowered if she was a guy. It's just mediocre writing (which is a shame, as I actually like her).
At this point it might as well constitute spamming to go around chanting the same line over and over and over on any video that has even an inkling of relevance just to push forward this idiotic notion that there's a problem that has to be focused on and resolved at all costs. Get over it.
@@catkaboodle i feel like people would’ve hated Rey even more if he was a male since he would be a Gary Stu with zero explanation when other male Jedi like Ezra and Luke had to struggle to use all their powers
Who has been betrayed in her heart (her feelings of abandonment by the exile) and who will betray in return (The Council by luring them to Katar, The Exile by leaking her trial, and herself for not admitting her own fall).
@@alfa8728 Sounds like you are living in a dream if you somehow think this is pretentious or 'shit' as you so eloquently put it. A pretty bad dream I'd say. I'd love to hear your idea on what good writing is, or even how this is in any way 'pretentious'. Assuming you actually have one and aren't just whining and complaining for the sake of attention.
I'm surprised that the Destruction of Alderaan didn't leave a Wound in the Force on the same scale as Malachor V (As more people were killed at Alderaan) Granted Obi-Wan was able to feel the wound in the Force from a few light years away in Hyperspace. Vader must have felt it too as he was RIGHT THERE.
Probably because of the rapidness. The planet gets literally 1-shotted and everyone dies in a heartbeat with no warning or anything else... Meanwhile at Malachor they increased the gravity slowly but steadily so that everyone was aware and alive when it got to levels where starships have been pulled into the surface while the planets gravity increased further, squeezing the life out of everyone on the surface and even in the ships - quickly but not quickly enough to give them a mercifull death... Imagine falling into a car compactor and you become too heavy to move as you feel every fiber in your body slowly but steadily gets pressed harder and harder, pressing the air out of your lungs and breaking your bones with their own weight as you scream in vain for the pain to stop... Just for a few seconds that still feel longer than hours...
@@leiferikson850 damn..... That would be sufficient to kill the Exile considering the fact that she developed rudimentary force bonds with those who died. And if they died with the feeling of being smashed by a hydraulic press... The Exile wouldn't be able to take such pain... She had to cut herself from the force to survive.
Obi-Wan likely felt Bail Organa's death directly. Feeling the sensation of vaporization (Which would only hurt for a fraction of a second) but was enough to make him fall back into his chair feeling disturbed.
The Exile, Trayus Academy and MSG were needed to make the Malachor V wound as dangerous as it was. It was a VERY unique set of circumstances that effectively nothing following could ever truly match (a Jedi with an unnaturally strong Force Bonding ability who survived being fully severed from the Force, with connections across the galaxy to millions of sapients and dozens of worlds at least; a dark side nexus meant to amplify the Force; and a weapon specifically designed to crush something under its own weight without allowing it to be destroyed). This meant the wound of Malachor V would fester and grow like a necrotic tumor basically, while a normal wound would be like a gash or bullet hole and eventually heal on its own.
I was hypnotized by it as a kid, along with Arcanum and, to a lesser degree, Bloodlines. Some really great writing in that early-noughts era of RPGs. I don't understand what happened to chase it away, but I miss it.
Indeed. In fact...i could argue that Kreia is THE WISEST character in all of Star Wars. Even Valkorion/Vitiate despite his longevity and bast wisdom i believe is lower (though not by much) in the wisdom department than Kreia. Lets also not forget that canonically the Exile...a character who felt to her core what pain and suffering war can cause was also female (canonically). I can add a lot more examples of well written female characters. But no...all that quality thrown at the trash and replaced with lazy and greedy attempts of story telling. Such a shame that quality in entertainment has sunk so low.
It totally makes sense for Kreia to have orchestrated the Exile's outcast from the Jedi!! She must have been there at the moment the Exile was sentenced, just not on the council, or else she would have shown up on the list of masters in T3's holorecording!! By this point she must have seen that the Council would not be able to comprehend what the Exile symbolized as far as her relationship with the Force went, much in the way that the secrets of Korriban were wasted on plunderers who didn't know what they had in their hands. To preserve the Exile and protect her from Jedi dogma, Arren Kae sent her away!
It actually doesn’t make much sense timeline-wise, imo this conversation is symbolic, Kreia is not speaking as Kreia during the whole conversation, she often speaks in an alias, as Darth Traya, and all the feelings that come with the title. She is speaking as all the hatred, sense of revenge and betrayal Atris has within her, because those feelings are always with her, Darth Traya is as well, deep down, that is who she is. As if the title represents some part of Atris and her corruption, a persona that has betrayed everything and everyone, including Atris herself.
Fun Fact: After the first meeting with Atris, when you picked up your friends, you can go to her chamber and see with Kreia's first person view that she has fallen to the dark side. Sorry for my english btw
Well that's a leitmotiv of the entire game, although this exile case is not fully covered. I'd say, these relations between Kreia and Atris are not described at all, though there are echoes throughout the game like this one with the exile. The thing is that english isn't my mother tongue so when Kreia says "I have always. been. here" - it seems strange to me. Here, like, in the academy? In Atris' mind? In the Jedy Order? Did Kreia wiped Atris' memory about herself? Oh so many questions do arise from such videos.
Ah, okay. I think Kreia talking about herself as being a shadow that has watched over the events since she was the one who recommended the main character to be exiled. In that case, she's a mastermind.
That's correct. She obtained the ability to hide her own presence from the Jedi, yet reveal herself to any Jedi at will. This is reflected in the interactions with the Disciple on the Ebon Hawk.
When she says "I have always been here" she means in general, she's been alive and manipulating the events of the game. In the restored content mod, when your party first crashes in the polar region and meets Atris for the first time, Atris has no idea that Kreia is even there. When you escape, her handmaidens say "The Exile escaped with the smuggler and the old woman," and Atris acts confused and goes "The old woman...?" Kreia can hid her presence at will and had been doing so the whole time. So when she says "I have always been here" she means she's always been with the exile despite Atris not even knowing she was still alive.
"I have always been here." Hahaha, I should've noticed this one much sooner. This is (more or less) a line taken right from Babylon 5, which Chris Avellone has cited as a major influence on KOTOR 2. It's used in pretty much the same context, too.
@@munfurai8083 It's mostly meant to be cryptic haha, the character who says this in B5 makes Kreia's lines look simple. Within the context of B5, the line essentially means "this is where you're destined to be," or "your existence was meant for your being here." In K2, I think it's moreso Kreia identifying herself as a personification of Atris' Dark Side, and carries the implication that this was always how Atris would turn out.
@@munfurai8083In this context Kreia both is and isnt speaking about her physical self. Here, Kreia is speaking as the embodiment of betrayal personified. Kreia is revealing to Atris that no matter how many lies she tells herself, she has fallen and has in fact become the new Dark Lord of Betrayal, replacing Kreia becauae there will always be a Darth Traya. The moment Mitra Surek decided to follow Reven, was the moment Atris began to fall to the Dark Side and after many years of fighting with herself Kreia now puts into words the ear worm that she's been trying to bury. Atris is Sith and has been. Atris claims she was trying to pprotect the Jedi's knowledge on Telos when the truth is, Atris put the Holocrons on Telos knowing the Jedi would be there with the hopes that the Sith Lords would come and two sides would destroy each other and she would be the last. Thats why even though there are a few Jedi masters left, she claims to be the last. She had always planned to be the last. Kreia is basically saying that as Darth Traya, her and atris are one and the same and have been since since the Exile left.
"There is not enough truth in such teachings... But it will be a step for you" Kreia despises Atris' hipocrisy and false adherence to the Jedi, Kreia knows Atris is fallen and is simply too prideful and arrogant to admit it to others and specially herself, here, even when she gets called out, she still claims to be acting in the interests of the Jedi, all the while meditating in a room full of Sith holocrons, a room that no doubt is steeped in dark side energies. But at the same time, she realizes that Atris has the potential to see beyond both Sith and Jedi teachings, but before, she must become the new "Darth Traya" and admit her fall, thus taking a, step towards what Kreia sees as the "right direction", meaning, realizing the flaws of both orders, by being the Historian of the Jedi AND the Sith, Atris has a much greater chance of understanding what Kreia tries to teach than any of the other Jedi, this is why Kreia kills the council, they are incapable of understanding the Sith and the dark side, which means they are hopelessly ignorant and incapable of not being pawns of the force. She lets Atris live because Kreia knows that, while she will no doubt deny herself as being "Sith" her inner conflict will inevitably give way and she will embrace the dark side, she will delve on the teachings of the Sith and, thanks to it, gain a greater understanding of the Force and hopefully one day come to understand the Force as Kreia does. This is also why Kreia says "take me to Atris, she will have the strength to do what the council cannot" she does not mean kill Kreia, she means ACCEPTING her fall, admitting it, no matter how terrible, take up the mantle of Darth Traya, as Kreia once did, and from it, become stronger, as Kreia did. "To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it."
This scene is amazing. Atris declares herself the last of the Jedi and Kreia says I feel the Dark Side in you, so why are you pretending? I love how in the game the most evil Sith Lord is like, well i guess technically there is one more Jedi Master so let me roll a quick 20 on conversion.
*Casting Blame Instead Of Taking Responsibility* Ha! That’s a laugh for a Jedi Master who saw the Jedi as flawed because of their arrogance and hypocrisy!
@@BFCrusader in kotor 1 when you get back from the Leviathan, Carth talks about the bombardment of Telos and Canderous replied "everyone knows it was Malak who gave the orders to attack Telos". The conversation Kreia and Atris are having is pertaining to the same attack on Telos but they claim it was Revan
@@slinkysloth1305 Well, Malak ordered both Taris and Telos bombarded to charred wastelands. I was just now reminded of that fact. However, perhaps Kreia and Atris were unaware who truly gave the order for Telos?
@@BFCrusader that's what I was thinking, that or maybe Malak giving the orders was only a rumor. Not much of a difference either way, most likely they both felt it was necessary
@@slinkysloth1305 It's possible that both are true. Malak would not act without his master's say so - his jaw is a reminder of that - Revan likely intended Telos attacked, but perhaps not eviscerated. Revan wished to leave key infrastructure intact, as is also pointed by Kreia (and G0-T0). Revan dispatched Malak to Telos to send a warning to the Jedi, Malak decided to make that warning in the only way he knew how.
I never had the privilege to play any games at early 2010s. It was mere coincidence I found this game on random channel just a month ago and I never felt this immersed into any game I've ever played. Kreia by far is my most favorite game character.
I think that this sentiment is metaphysical in nature. It is as if Kreia presented herself as hatred, guilt, etc. of Atris, and by doing so, she exposed Atris to the fact that she is driven by emotion, the antithesis of Jedi.
It was not her per say, in this moment Kreia was mirroring the dark side that was within Atris heart. When Kreia is saying that she was the one to ask them to cast out exile, it means that the darkness and fear, that was at the core of the darkness, guided Atris and other Council members to the actions that they have taken. Much of the subject matter of this game is about internal struggle. And Kriea's power lie in the ability to dig deep and twist the perceptions of people around her, is why she is Lord of Betrayal.
What I love most about this scene is that where as most Sith Lords take up a mantle or are given it by the Lord before them; the mantle of "The Lord of Betrayal" is not one that it given or earned, it is felt. By thie point Atris was stilling betraying even herself by claiming to be a Jedi, but the moment Kreia revealed who she really was, the new Darth Traya, Atris didnt even argue it. She knew, she had always known whether she admitted it or not. Kreia only put into words what was apparent. Atris was blind to Kreia's presense becauae she could not look upon herself. "It is such a quiet thing, to fall, but far more terrible to admit it."
@@DmitryTheSovietDuck yes, either it's obsidian retconning and expanding revan's character, mistake from their part or Kreia being dishonest/ambiguous(Revan was still Malak's master, so maybe she thought it was Revan who ordered malak to do it)
I haven't seen the dialogue occur when I reached that point, but I don't know if it's because I chose Light Side Revan or because that part of the conversation was cut and reintroduced in mods.
I'm curious, if Kreia/Darth Traya met Darth Vader, what would she have revealed stripping away his surface? Darth Vader's personality is due to his self-loathing over Padme, his hatred of the Jedi, his discomfort in his suit which also prevents sleep, and he became a Sith due to the manipulation of Darth Sidious.
Who in turn became Sith due to Darth Plagueis. Traya would have scoffed at Sidious's inception, mocked the mimicry of her skills, to hide in plain sight for those who are in tune with the Force but somehow manage to fail at it... Would have laughed her ass off when his machinations backfired, precisely because he (Sidious) cannot see past his own actions. Cannot see the pull of the Force, as it whipped back and slapped him in the face... But she'd lament when it would happen because it would have been another overwhelmingly concrete proof to add to the pile: The Force has a will. And it plays with those it touches. It TOYS with them as if it were a child. In truth, just as Traya was reverent towards the practices of lightsaber combat of the old Sith, so too should Sidious be reverent of Traya's ways, for compared to her solemn painting, he is but a child finger-painting.
The jedi are like parents, they fail in their teachings because they do not live up to them. Or they succeed for it. But the worst jedi are the ones who die clinging to their pride.
I wish we could have saved Kreia and Atris, at least Kreia. Kreia was like a wise mother. Atris sort of like the Exile in a way. At least Kreia did at least notice that Atris did see some truth to the Exile.
I don't understand this scene. Kreia says Atris took the Sith holocrons from the Jedi Academy on Dantooine and brought them to Telos, but why would there be Sith holocrons in a Jedi Academy? Wouldn't they run the risk of having the Padawans or even the masters themselves become corrupted, indeed just like how Atris eventually ends up.
Jedi actually always keep sith holocrons locked away. Only the highest ranked Jedi are allowed access to them. Believing that they are the only ones who can study them without it affecting them.
This is even disney canon I believe, if I'm not mistaken it's mentioned in various of the prequel movie books that the temple keeps sith holocrons in the coruscant library for the council members to study, and to contain them so that no force wielder may accidentally stumble upon them.
Yes, the vaults contained all knowledge that they could find. Both jedi and Sith, having those holocrons locked away also meant that their knowledge and teachings were denied to all enemies of the jedi. But eventually they always give in to their curiosity and desperation as Atris did.
Would be a fantastic animated series on Disney plus, each season could be on a different planet. would allow time to develop characters and build the story up, especially for the younglings not familiar with this part of star wars lore.
They really need to remake KOTOR games on consoles cause this is indefinitely a 5 star game that no one has ever seen or one franchise that they shouldn’t have given up on like the force…
Papito Qinn OK, let me restart my words…It should be on Game Consoles & Computers, But the difference is that some games don’t have to hide everything in the story and game on computers like last time…There were secrets in the game no one knew and it got some consoles people upset…The Hidden Droid Planet, The HK Factory on Telos, everything that was missing on the console…I want all of the game on KOTOR2, nothing missing or anything…
@@RonnieDDieselReactions PC is where people were able to access the cut content. But it took a lot of work to complete it. I wish they could have brought it to console too. But there wasn't any way to.
@@RonnieDDieselReactions Yeah, Obsidian didn't ship part of the game to console and all of the game to PC. Each edition was just as incomplete because of a terrible deadline. The only difference was that the console versions had *all* of the dialogue, including unused dialogue files. It was all modders putting the game back together, using the unused dialogue files found on console discs, allowing them to pull the unused materials (on a PC) and restoring them on the PC version to restore that variant. Console versions, having no access points without modding the console extensively, could not receive the same attention.
So, this scene is confusing. Could Atris see or sense Kreia? Why didn't Atris meet Kreia the first time she met the Exile? Why didn't Atris fight against Kreia? Confusing indeed.
@Maxus Devasteitor Not only that but Kriea could appear before someone talk with them and then make them forget the interaction (she does this with the Disciple) and leave a mental suggestion/impulse.
It's strange and I'm a bit confused but when Atris mentions that she did what Kreia asked it doesn't seem like she's talking to someone else. It doesn't seem like the exiling was done on the behest of Kreia. It seems like she's talking to herself and Kreia is just exposing that, that Atris is talking to her act of betrayal. In fact Kreia mentions being there both times the Exile was brought before Atris. That implies being there when the MC was first exiled and and the Telos chapter of the game. So does this all mean that Kreia has literally been there this whole time ever since Malachor V? Invisible to all Jedi but manipulating key people's thoughts and minds to lead to all of this? This is fascinating but goes way over my head.
Darth Traya/Kreia is the mortal embodiment of betrayal, therefore even if not in person, Traya was there long before Malachor V. She was there when Revan formed the Revanchists. When Revan and Malak fell to the dark side. When Malak betrayed Revan. You name it, she, by dent of who she is, was even there when Darth Vader betrayed Palpatine. She is an undying... Force.
It is an asspull to have Kreia be responsible for the Exile's exile. It is a good thing that it (and the further mention is Revan hiding 'secrets' on Telos) were cut from the game; one of the few black marks on the RCM's restored content (the other major one being Kavee on Dantooine and the resultant rewrite of Joran's quest).
@@XJ0461C / @Bob Bob Not only was Kreia exiled from the Jedi order long before the Exile was (by a matter of years; iirc before the Mandalorian Wars actually; said exile was due to her pregnancy with Brianna), but also because Kreia didn't even start her plans for the Sith nor the Exile until after the Jedi Civil War (when she retraced Revan's steps to understand what happened to him, how he became a Sith & why he returned to the Jedi). All this is per every other bit of lore in the game (from the statements from the other Jedi masters & the other companions to Kreia herself). Having Kreia suddenly be responsible for the Exile's exile is impossible timeline-wise (she wasn't even a Sith at a time, and it wasn't until AFTER Sion/Nihlius kicked her out of the Triumvirate that she considered making use of the Exile to deafen people to the Force); that is why it's an asspull. What would make it worse is that, were Kreia actually the one that caused the Exile's exile, the Jedi Council would have no agency (and thus couldn't actually be held accountable for their actions, because they would be doing them under the control/mental manipulations of Kreia, rather their their own innate misguided methods/arrogance/fear). It also exaggerates Kreia's powers of manipulations (as she isn't shown ANYWHERE having that level of influence over anyone anywhere else in the game - all of her other manipulations are not done as "little whispers in the mind", but as conversations with people where she places seeds of doubt with piercing questions & statements, and then allowing people to act accordingly). In essence, her being responsible detracts from her own impressiveness, the agency of the council, and the quality of the story on the whole. I hope that answers your question to my 2-year-old comment.
@@DBArtsCreators I hardly see the relevance in when the comment was made. You didn't explain yourself the first time and chose to answer now. Also it was never confirmed that Kreia and Arren Kae are one and the same.
I feel like Kreia is speaking metaphorically in this scene rather than literally being the one to ask for the Exile to be cast out. She is speaking as the voice of betrayal, the thought in the back of your head that makes you turn on others and reject what you see before you. Darth Traya is a title, not a person, and like Kreia says, titles are things people cling to in order to justify themselves when the darkness falls around them. "Traya" in this sense is the feeling that warped the minds of the council when they looked upon the Exile and couldn't bear what they saw, not Kreia literally being the one telling them all to vote on tossing her out
Plot hole: Carth flies off the hook in the first game saying that Revan ordered Telos destroyed, which is what Kreia says here. But Canderous shoots that down and says Malak ordered the planet bombarded, not Revan. And I believe Canderous, literally everything that comes out of Kreia's mouth is a damn lie in some way or another.
Papito Qinn Gratz you didn't read a word I said. After escaping the Leviathan in the first game, Carth loses his shot over you being Reven and having destroyed Telos. Canderous objects and corrects Carth saying Malak ordered the destruction of Telos not Reven.
Revan pushed the Jedi to action, time and again the deeds performed before the Jedi Civil war started in earnest did Revan seek to remind them that conflict and action, and an enemy powered by conviction wait for no one. They were ill prepared. The Sith would come regardless and as they were then destroy them. Thus Revan would force the Jedi's hand to be roused from meditations and hollow teachings of peace. When it is war and conflict that makes such a peace possible in the first place. Revan saved the Jedi order as both its champion and enemy.
I know but Canderous said Malak gave the order to destroy Telos in the first Kotor. "We all know Malak gave the order to destroy your world you can't blame Revan for that."
Before Darth Revan Got his/her Memories Removed Could Have Ordered Telos Destroyed And New Revan Probably Didn't Know His/Her Ordered It It's Like A Double Edge Sword Or Some Would Say Revan Vs Revan 🤔🤷♀️ To Different Revans.
You do realise that democrats funded kkk and that the current US president have given a eulogy for former kkk recriuter? For your analogy to work one would require to have Atris level of ignorance.
I wanted to know more about the life of Atris, Kreia, Visas Marr Nihilus and Sion but unfortunately SWTOR happened and Disney deleted the EU is a shame : /
""""Deleted"""", yeah no. It's all still out there. If you care that goddamn much, go explore it yourself. I liked the KotOR games so much that I did my own continuation of that period in SW history because I felt like it. Just because someone is paid to write 'official' material doesn't mean it's any good, of any genuine relevance or whatnot. But no, just keep repeating the same hateful trite over and over and over, because that will totally fix all the problems...
I don't think Kreia is even a Darth at that point, she's just Kreia. She's just saying someone has to carry that title, and Atris apparently stepped up.
There is no confirmation, only speculation. However, there is a theory that in this moment Kreia assumes the voice of the darkness within Atris. This whole scene is in a way the death of a person known as Atris. That is why when Exile confronts her, she says "Atris... that is not who I am, not any longer". So when Kreia say "It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.", it is, for a woman that was once Atris, a call to accept what she is.
Kreia Is Good! Atris Is Evil! Yet In The New Version, They Say Kreia Is Evil! Atris Is Darth Traya, NOT Kreia!! I hope in a KotOR II TSL movie, they give Kreia a cybernetic hand, with Atris giving Meetra her lightsaber back, and Meetra saving Kreia from the darkness!
Their notes: Tone down the dialogue so that little kids will understand it, make Sion look like a regular human so he doesn't scare little kids, make Nihilus less powerful and speak basic english so little kids can understand him.
No, yoda and sidious were just betting on the light side/dark side horse race, Atris might think of the Exile in this term, but Kreia sees something entirely different. This dialog has many more levels than the yoda/sidious one anyway, they're not really even talking about the exile. Kreia just mentions him/her to bring Atris home to her own fall to the dark side and one step closer to true understanding.
"It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it." Really powerful quote from Kreia.
Reality is sometimes disappointing..
10/10 writing
And its so true. Any true villain never actually sees themselves as a villain. In the worst cases, they often are ignoring their sins and focusing on whatever justification for their actions. Once they acknowledge that sin, it is a huge weight to even try to take the steps to somehow rectify what you have done.
A great quote that describes current Star Wars in itself.
Yup. And the deeper you fall, often it's even harder to admit to the extents of that. It's why true moral fortitude is so rare.
She traveled lightyears just to tell her to stop being a hypocrite.
To be fair, Star Wars is a universe where people can travel lightyears for the most trivial things. Heck, some people IRL drive their car to places that are only two-minutes of walking distance away.
Kreia hates them the most
"Be a bad bitch dammit! Stop pretending you aren't one!"
-Kreia
The Star Wars equivalent of flying to Akron just to zing a guy.
@@mechanwhal6590 jerk store
"Those are titles. Words you cling to as the darkness falls around you."
Damn Obsidian really knows how to set up atmosphere with only a few words. I can visualize an increasingly isolated Atris slowly warping her own mind at fear of the Sith and that fear turning into hatred and aggression and that aggression taking her down the dark side without her even knowing it
Oh, she knew it
Daenarys was defined by titles. Jon was defined by character.
@@BlackDiamond2718
Words are wind.
This game was so fucking ahead of its time.
As a kid, I never truly understood Kreia's character. Now as an adult, it's quite twisted and brilliant how she was able to manipulate others to get her way.
Indeed... there is a word in the English language; a term people again use to categorize things; a term held in the same light as psychopathy and narcissism... the third leg of the Dark Triad -- the word is "Machiavellian". Google it. Kreia is one of the finer examples of such a psychological and ethical phenomenon in all of fiction...
Including the player, if you think about it.
''I would not be surprised if Revan left other gifts beneath the surface of the planet''
Meanwhile...
*Ineffectual command* Stop!
*Ineffectual command* We command you to stop!
Ah Atris, your love for the Exile, long buried, finally revealed- and so she realized the depth of her failure, just how far she had fallen, all because she couldn't voice her feelings. Truly a perfect example of the failure of the Jedi- and the Sith, all in one.
Jason Does Anime it also shows how human it is. And how such things spoken or not can lead to regrets that if left buried can fester inside. It could be applied to real life as well thats what makes this game so powerful.
That is applicable only to a male exile though
@@lukiieeee8478
How ignorant. Love can apply for all sentients, to all sentients, ESPECIALLY unrequited love. And it is the passion of love, denied... love thwarted, that can twist to become the passion of hatred, rage, or betrayal.
@@Aeroldoth3 That is not what I meant tho, if you play as a female exile, Atris doesnt love you, she instead looks up to you and respects you as a jedi, thus when you broke your jedi oath, she becomes disillusioned.
That is why I stated that the unrequited love storyline is only applicable to a male exile.
Love conquers all.
God damn, Obsidian can write some good games.
Mitchell Toulouse It's sad; the more I hear of the lost data, the more tragic it feels that they had to bury them.
Mitchell Toulouse too bad they go rushed and couldn't complete installing everything into the game
Mitchell Toulouse... Yes...
could
When they are on a short timescale, lmao
“You have bathed in the knowledge of the Sith” is such a cold line.
The dialogues of Kotor are more rich than the 3 Disney movies together
KOTOR 2 dialogues beat the ENTIRE saga
@@Ale-dd3ek yup.
Although you are right, the reasoning for your remark is sad and pathetic
This one exchange between Kreia and Atris puts Disney's trilogy to shame
@@Sacrocide KOTOR this dialogue destroy prequels and sequels
From this to "somehow, Palpatine returned."
it is insane brah. Star Wars is gone completely smh...
😔😟
this is how you write female characters! Kreia, Meetra, Atris all of them have flaws, weakness, strength, believes, dark side, grey side and light side and not a marry sue
It's how you write characters in general.
Insert Original Name Here - Yes, but some people cling to the idea there must be different standards (this is what the comment is criticizing). The irony of what Disney has done with Rey is that they seem to have internalized sexist attitudes about female characters instead of writing her like any other character. HOWEVER, I honestly think that Rey would be just as overpowered if she was a guy. It's just mediocre writing (which is a shame, as I actually like her).
Insert Original Name Here... Yes...
At this point it might as well constitute spamming to go around chanting the same line over and over and over on any video that has even an inkling of relevance just to push forward this idiotic notion that there's a problem that has to be focused on and resolved at all costs.
Get over it.
@@catkaboodle i feel like people would’ve hated Rey even more if he was a male since he would be a Gary Stu with zero explanation when other male Jedi like Ezra and Luke had to struggle to use all their powers
Who has been betrayed in her heart (her feelings of abandonment by the exile) and who will betray in return (The Council by luring them to Katar, The Exile by leaking her trial, and herself for not admitting her own fall).
The writers utterly killed this, great stuff.
That's Obsidian for you. Grade A+ storytelling.
@@Spiralpaladin Am i living in a dream?!? No it's not! None of this shit is good! Just because it sounds pretentious doesn't mean it's good.
@@alfa8728 Sounds like you are living in a dream if you somehow think this is pretentious or 'shit' as you so eloquently put it. A pretty bad dream I'd say. I'd love to hear your idea on what good writing is, or even how this is in any way 'pretentious'. Assuming you actually have one and aren't just whining and complaining for the sake of attention.
@@alfa8728 Ok then. I'll give you the benefit of doubt. Why is it bad? Explain it to me.
I'm surprised that the Destruction of Alderaan didn't leave a Wound in the Force on the same scale as Malachor V (As more people were killed at Alderaan) Granted Obi-Wan was able to feel the wound in the Force from a few light years away in Hyperspace. Vader must have felt it too as he was RIGHT THERE.
Including Ezra, Palpatine and Yoda
Probably because of the rapidness. The planet gets literally 1-shotted and everyone dies in a heartbeat with no warning or anything else... Meanwhile at Malachor they increased the gravity slowly but steadily so that everyone was aware and alive when it got to levels where starships have been pulled into the surface while the planets gravity increased further, squeezing the life out of everyone on the surface and even in the ships - quickly but not quickly enough to give them a mercifull death... Imagine falling into a car compactor and you become too heavy to move as you feel every fiber in your body slowly but steadily gets pressed harder and harder, pressing the air out of your lungs and breaking your bones with their own weight as you scream in vain for the pain to stop... Just for a few seconds that still feel longer than hours...
@@leiferikson850 damn..... That would be sufficient to kill the Exile considering the fact that she developed rudimentary force bonds with those who died. And if they died with the feeling of being smashed by a hydraulic press... The Exile wouldn't be able to take such pain... She had to cut herself from the force to survive.
Obi-Wan likely felt Bail Organa's death directly. Feeling the sensation of vaporization (Which would only hurt for a fraction of a second) but was enough to make him fall back into his chair feeling disturbed.
The Exile, Trayus Academy and MSG were needed to make the Malachor V wound as dangerous as it was. It was a VERY unique set of circumstances that effectively nothing following could ever truly match (a Jedi with an unnaturally strong Force Bonding ability who survived being fully severed from the Force, with connections across the galaxy to millions of sapients and dozens of worlds at least; a dark side nexus meant to amplify the Force; and a weapon specifically designed to crush something under its own weight without allowing it to be destroyed).
This meant the wound of Malachor V would fester and grow like a necrotic tumor basically, while a normal wound would be like a gash or bullet hole and eventually heal on its own.
Man, I played this when I was a kid... I couldn't appreciate the writing then. I need to replay this masterpiece
I was hypnotized by it as a kid, along with Arcanum and, to a lesser degree, Bloodlines. Some really great writing in that early-noughts era of RPGs. I don't understand what happened to chase it away, but I miss it.
You're not the only one!
Try baldurs gate. That story is so deep.
@@saerain you might like Jade Empire
"Why did she betray me?"
"You betrayed YOURSELF, do not blame the Exile."
Fucking murdered without the Force, a lightsaber, or her one hand.
And that is the greatest strength, to be defeated by words and mind
kReIa No
*Shoots gun*
"You have done that yourself. Now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy."
I love the parallels.
@@srenjensen2625 I would love a conversation between Vader and Kreia.
Kreia's most powerful weapon was always her tongue
And Disney say there are no good female Star Wars character
Atris and Kreia have more depth than any new chracter of Disney
Did they really say that? They couldn't have said that. Otherwise they'd be shitting on Leia.
Xhiar 92 that's cause they can only make sussy q type.
Indeed. In fact...i could argue that Kreia is THE WISEST character in all of Star Wars. Even Valkorion/Vitiate despite his longevity and bast wisdom i believe is lower (though not by much) in the wisdom department than Kreia. Lets also not forget that canonically the Exile...a character who felt to her core what pain and suffering war can cause was also female (canonically). I can add a lot more examples of well written female characters. But no...all that quality thrown at the trash and replaced with lazy and greedy attempts of story telling. Such a shame that quality in entertainment has sunk so low.
Most Star Wars major female characters are well written pre-Disney.
They never said that y’all dumbassses love trying to bitch😂😂
It totally makes sense for Kreia to have orchestrated the Exile's outcast from the Jedi!! She must have been there at the moment the Exile was sentenced, just not on the council, or else she would have shown up on the list of masters in T3's holorecording!! By this point she must have seen that the Council would not be able to comprehend what the Exile symbolized as far as her relationship with the Force went, much in the way that the secrets of Korriban were wasted on plunderers who didn't know what they had in their hands. To preserve the Exile and protect her from Jedi dogma, Arren Kae sent her away!
Not Arren Kae, or else Attis would have recognized her here.
It actually doesn’t make much sense timeline-wise, imo this conversation is symbolic, Kreia is not speaking as Kreia during the whole conversation, she often speaks in an alias, as Darth Traya, and all the feelings that come with the title. She is speaking as all the hatred, sense of revenge and betrayal Atris has within her, because those feelings are always with her, Darth Traya is as well, deep down, that is who she is. As if the title represents some part of Atris and her corruption, a persona that has betrayed everything and everyone, including Atris herself.
Atris: oh, you inflict pain.
Kreia: No you.
2:55 “..How did it happen....?” for those who have fallen in ways and realized it later on suddenly…devastating feeling
Fun Fact: After the first meeting with Atris, when you picked up your friends, you can go to her chamber and see with Kreia's first person view that she has fallen to the dark side.
Sorry for my english btw
Really? Interesting. I gotta look into that. Thanks for the tip.
@@PapitoQinn yeah, she can see through the wall because of her force sight ability ;)
Huh... I tried to do that, but I couldn’t see her from behind the door. Maybe I should try to get closer?
@@Crusader-tg1wx of course try it go as close as you can :)
Wtf
So did Kreia arranged for the Exile to be exiled? How did she did that? Why? And why did the Exile not know Kreia from the past?
She probably saw the Exile as a means to an end in her plan to destroy the Force.
Well that's a leitmotiv of the entire game, although this exile case is not fully covered. I'd say, these relations between Kreia and Atris are not described at all, though there are echoes throughout the game like this one with the exile. The thing is that english isn't my mother tongue so when Kreia says "I have always. been. here" - it seems strange to me. Here, like, in the academy? In Atris' mind? In the Jedy Order? Did Kreia wiped Atris' memory about herself? Oh so many questions do arise from such videos.
Ah, okay. I think Kreia talking about herself as being a shadow that has watched over the events since she was the one who recommended the main character to be exiled. In that case, she's a mastermind.
That's correct. She obtained the ability to hide her own presence from the Jedi, yet reveal herself to any Jedi at will. This is reflected in the interactions with the Disciple on the Ebon Hawk.
When she says "I have always been here" she means in general, she's been alive and manipulating the events of the game. In the restored content mod, when your party first crashes in the polar region and meets Atris for the first time, Atris has no idea that Kreia is even there. When you escape, her handmaidens say "The Exile escaped with the smuggler and the old woman," and Atris acts confused and goes "The old woman...?" Kreia can hid her presence at will and had been doing so the whole time. So when she says "I have always been here" she means she's always been with the exile despite Atris not even knowing she was still alive.
"I have always been here."
Hahaha, I should've noticed this one much sooner. This is (more or less) a line taken right from Babylon 5, which Chris Avellone has cited as a major influence on KOTOR 2. It's used in pretty much the same context, too.
What does it mean exactly
@@munfurai8083 It's mostly meant to be cryptic haha, the character who says this in B5 makes Kreia's lines look simple. Within the context of B5, the line essentially means "this is where you're destined to be," or "your existence was meant for your being here." In K2, I think it's moreso Kreia identifying herself as a personification of Atris' Dark Side, and carries the implication that this was always how Atris would turn out.
Great catch. I've been meaning to go back to Babylon 5 since Chris Avellone confirmed he envisioned the Sith like the Shadows.
@@munfurai8083In this context Kreia both is and isnt speaking about her physical self. Here, Kreia is speaking as the embodiment of betrayal personified. Kreia is revealing to Atris that no matter how many lies she tells herself, she has fallen and has in fact become the new Dark Lord of Betrayal, replacing Kreia becauae there will always be a Darth Traya.
The moment Mitra Surek decided to follow Reven, was the moment Atris began to fall to the Dark Side and after many years of fighting with herself Kreia now puts into words the ear worm that she's been trying to bury. Atris is Sith and has been.
Atris claims she was trying to pprotect the Jedi's knowledge on Telos when the truth is, Atris put the Holocrons on Telos knowing the Jedi would be there with the hopes that the Sith Lords would come and two sides would destroy each other and she would be the last. Thats why even though there are a few Jedi masters left, she claims to be the last. She had always planned to be the last.
Kreia is basically saying that as Darth Traya, her and atris are one and the same and have been since since the Exile left.
"There is not enough truth in such teachings... But it will be a step for you"
Kreia despises Atris' hipocrisy and false adherence to the Jedi, Kreia knows Atris is fallen and is simply too prideful and arrogant to admit it to others and specially herself, here, even when she gets called out, she still claims to be acting in the interests of the Jedi, all the while meditating in a room full of Sith holocrons, a room that no doubt is steeped in dark side energies.
But at the same time, she realizes that Atris has the potential to see beyond both Sith and Jedi teachings, but before, she must become the new "Darth Traya" and admit her fall, thus taking a, step towards what Kreia sees as the "right direction", meaning, realizing the flaws of both orders, by being the Historian of the Jedi AND the Sith, Atris has a much greater chance of understanding what Kreia tries to teach than any of the other Jedi, this is why Kreia kills the council, they are incapable of understanding the Sith and the dark side, which means they are hopelessly ignorant and incapable of not being pawns of the force.
She lets Atris live because Kreia knows that, while she will no doubt deny herself as being "Sith" her inner conflict will inevitably give way and she will embrace the dark side, she will delve on the teachings of the Sith and, thanks to it, gain a greater understanding of the Force and hopefully one day come to understand the Force as Kreia does.
This is also why Kreia says "take me to Atris, she will have the strength to do what the council cannot" she does not mean kill Kreia, she means ACCEPTING her fall, admitting it, no matter how terrible, take up the mantle of Darth Traya, as Kreia once did, and from it, become stronger, as Kreia did.
"To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it."
There must always be a Darth Traya. One that holds the knowledge of betrayal. Who has been betrayed in their heart..and Will betray in turn...
Darth Traya was my sith master
This scene is amazing. Atris declares herself the last of the Jedi and Kreia says I feel the Dark Side in you, so why are you pretending? I love how in the game the most evil Sith Lord is like, well i guess technically there is one more Jedi Master so let me roll a quick 20 on conversion.
Kreia saved Meetra Surik from falling for Atris’ lies.
*Casting Blame Instead Of Taking Responsibility*
Ha! That’s a laugh for a Jedi Master who saw the Jedi as flawed because of their arrogance and hypocrisy!
2:19 isn't it Saul Karath who received the command from Malak to bombard Telos?
It was Taris
@@BFCrusader in kotor 1 when you get back from the Leviathan, Carth talks about the bombardment of Telos and Canderous replied "everyone knows it was Malak who gave the orders to attack Telos". The conversation Kreia and Atris are having is pertaining to the same attack on Telos but they claim it was Revan
@@slinkysloth1305 Well, Malak ordered both Taris and Telos bombarded to charred wastelands. I was just now reminded of that fact. However, perhaps Kreia and Atris were unaware who truly gave the order for Telos?
@@BFCrusader that's what I was thinking, that or maybe Malak giving the orders was only a rumor. Not much of a difference either way, most likely they both felt it was necessary
@@slinkysloth1305 It's possible that both are true. Malak would not act without his master's say so - his jaw is a reminder of that - Revan likely intended Telos attacked, but perhaps not eviscerated. Revan wished to leave key infrastructure intact, as is also pointed by Kreia (and G0-T0). Revan dispatched Malak to Telos to send a warning to the Jedi, Malak decided to make that warning in the only way he knew how.
I never had the privilege to play any games at early 2010s.
It was mere coincidence I found this game on random channel just a month ago and I never felt this immersed into any game I've ever played.
Kreia by far is my most favorite game character.
Great to hear that more people are still discovering it.
|
Revan destroyed the last bastion of the Jedi as the first target in the War??? Man, that is awesome.
I’m starting to think that Atris was hallucinating right here. Her heart was showing up as Kreia
While that would fit, Kreia DID ask in the previous scene to be taken to Atris by the handmaidens.
Wait. Kreia was the one who asked the exile to be exiled???
How did I never catch this?
I think that this sentiment is metaphysical in nature. It is as if Kreia presented herself as hatred, guilt, etc. of Atris, and by doing so, she exposed Atris to the fact that she is driven by emotion, the antithesis of Jedi.
The feelings she can convey with just the tone of her voice. Amazing work.
This only scene is better than all Star Wars movies and im not joking
i dont know about all but its one of the top 5
Kreia was the actual reason for our character being exiled... This I didn't know. I'm so happy to go back and understand more about her character.
It was not her per say, in this moment Kreia was mirroring the dark side that was within Atris heart. When Kreia is saying that she was the one to ask them to cast out exile, it means that the darkness and fear, that was at the core of the darkness, guided Atris and other Council members to the actions that they have taken. Much of the subject matter of this game is about internal struggle. And Kriea's power lie in the ability to dig deep and twist the perceptions of people around her, is why she is Lord of Betrayal.
Broke: Rey is the last jedi
Woke: Atris is the last jedi
*Ascended: The Exile is the last of the jedi*
*Godhood: Luke is the last Jedi*
@@doubleoduck3405 Based: Luke sucks
3:00 I was so shocked to realise this. The game really got me overinfoed up to that point, and this fact came like a sledgehammer
What I love most about this scene is that where as most Sith Lords take up a mantle or are given it by the Lord before them; the mantle of "The Lord of Betrayal" is not one that it given or earned, it is felt.
By thie point Atris was stilling betraying even herself by claiming to be a Jedi, but the moment Kreia revealed who she really was, the new Darth Traya, Atris didnt even argue it. She knew, she had always known whether she admitted it or not. Kreia only put into words what was apparent.
Atris was blind to Kreia's presense becauae she could not look upon herself.
"It is such a quiet thing, to fall, but far more terrible to admit it."
2:18 Wait... Didn't Canderous say that it was Malak who ordered Telos to be destroyed, not Revan?
It was Taris
@@BFCrusader Malak ordered both Taris and Telos to be destroyed as said in KOTOR 1
@@DmitryTheSovietDuck Yes, you're correct
@@DmitryTheSovietDuck yes, either it's obsidian retconning and expanding revan's character, mistake from their part or Kreia being dishonest/ambiguous(Revan was still Malak's master, so maybe she thought it was Revan who ordered malak to do it)
I haven't seen the dialogue occur when I reached that point, but I don't know if it's because I chose Light Side Revan or because that part of the conversation was cut and reintroduced in mods.
Kreia is such an amazing villain
I'm curious, if Kreia/Darth Traya met Darth Vader, what would she have revealed stripping away his surface? Darth Vader's personality is due to his self-loathing over Padme, his hatred of the Jedi, his discomfort in his suit which also prevents sleep, and he became a Sith due to the manipulation of Darth Sidious.
Who in turn became Sith due to Darth Plagueis. Traya would have scoffed at Sidious's inception, mocked the mimicry of her skills, to hide in plain sight for those who are in tune with the Force but somehow manage to fail at it... Would have laughed her ass off when his machinations backfired, precisely because he (Sidious) cannot see past his own actions. Cannot see the pull of the Force, as it whipped back and slapped him in the face...
But she'd lament when it would happen because it would have been another overwhelmingly concrete proof to add to the pile: The Force has a will. And it plays with those it touches. It TOYS with them as if it were a child.
In truth, just as Traya was reverent towards the practices of lightsaber combat of the old Sith, so too should Sidious be reverent of Traya's ways, for compared to her solemn painting, he is but a child finger-painting.
Nothing. There is no great secret, no Earth shattering revelation. There is only the individual and their own past, present and future. Nothing more.
The jedi are like parents, they fail in their teachings because they do not live up to them. Or they succeed for it. But the worst jedi are the ones who die clinging to their pride.
Sums up ROTS Anakin perfectly.
Played a slightly light-sided Exile but it was incredibly satisfying to kill the sanctimonious willfully-ignorant Atris.
It’s like killing Saresh in SWTOR. No matter how much of a light sided person you are, you just have to do it.
Even if I can't say why, this dialogue is amazing
Back when they cared about script.
Kreia might not be as powerful as Sidius, but she's far more intelligent and cunning.
Such heavy dialogue great writing here.
Absolutely!
The terrifying thing here is that it almost seems like Kreia corrupts Atris with the Force. Like a Mind Trick, on an actual Jedi Master.
Well Atris corrupted herself. You can argue that Kreia gave her a final push. But all she really did was convince Atris to stop lying to herself.
2:19 Wrong Kreia, Malak's the one who ordered Telos' destruction not me.
Did Kreia expect the exile to defeat Atris?
Yes. Kreia wanted Atris taken care of.
Rekt.
👩❤️💋👨
And to think I managed to bring her back to the Light with Vitamin D.
At least Kreia admits she's screwed
I wish we could have saved Kreia and Atris, at least Kreia. Kreia was like a wise mother. Atris sort of like the Exile in a way. At least Kreia did at least notice that Atris did see some truth to the Exile.
I don't understand this scene.
Kreia says Atris took the Sith holocrons from the Jedi Academy on Dantooine and brought them to Telos, but why would there be Sith holocrons in a Jedi Academy? Wouldn't they run the risk of having the Padawans or even the masters themselves become corrupted, indeed just like how Atris eventually ends up.
Jedi actually always keep sith holocrons locked away. Only the highest ranked Jedi are allowed access to them. Believing that they are the only ones who can study them without it affecting them.
This is even disney canon I believe, if I'm not mistaken it's mentioned in various of the prequel movie books that the temple keeps sith holocrons in the coruscant library for the council members to study, and to contain them so that no force wielder may accidentally stumble upon them.
For safekeeping so they won't be misused
That's why only members of the Jedi Council could enter the Holocron Vault.
Yes, the vaults contained all knowledge that they could find. Both jedi and Sith, having those holocrons locked away also meant that their knowledge and teachings were denied to all enemies of the jedi. But eventually they always give in to their curiosity and desperation as Atris did.
I love the dialogue in this game. Ya know what fuck it maybe I’ll make another character.
You never get writing like this in today's games.
Is this cut content? I have played the Xbox version of the game many times, and never heard this scene this way. It was shorter.
It’s probably TSLRCM (The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod) that’s only on Steam sadly
If they made this into a movie... It will either be the best in the Universe, or a shallow, pathetic imitation of the masterpiece this game is
It would be much too difficult to adapt this into a movie. A movie now is, at most, 3 hours long.
Would be a fantastic animated series on Disney plus, each season could be on a different planet. would allow time to develop characters and build the story up, especially for the younglings not familiar with this part of star wars lore.
No. Disney can do what they want with SWTOR but they better leave KOTOR 1 and 2 alone. They'd for sure ruin both games.
this one scene is better than the last 3 movies
I love this exchange
2:28 Was she referring to the HK factory?
I think she might be referring to a Sith temple that was cut from the game at one point. Or both. Or a bunch of things.
They really need to remake KOTOR games on consoles cause this is indefinitely a 5 star game that no one has ever seen or one franchise that they shouldn’t have given up on like the force…
Why only consoles specifically?
Papito Qinn OK, let me restart my words…It should be on Game Consoles & Computers, But the difference is that some games don’t have to hide everything in the story and game on computers like last time…There were secrets in the game no one knew and it got some consoles people upset…The Hidden Droid Planet, The HK Factory on Telos, everything that was missing on the console…I want all of the game on KOTOR2, nothing missing or anything…
@@RonnieDDieselReactions PC is where people were able to access the cut content. But it took a lot of work to complete it. I wish they could have brought it to console too. But there wasn't any way to.
@@RonnieDDieselReactions Yeah, Obsidian didn't ship part of the game to console and all of the game to PC. Each edition was just as incomplete because of a terrible deadline. The only difference was that the console versions had *all* of the dialogue, including unused dialogue files.
It was all modders putting the game back together, using the unused dialogue files found on console discs, allowing them to pull the unused materials (on a PC) and restoring them on the PC version to restore that variant.
Console versions, having no access points without modding the console extensively, could not receive the same attention.
So, this scene is confusing. Could Atris see or sense Kreia? Why didn't Atris meet Kreia the first time she met the Exile? Why didn't Atris fight against Kreia? Confusing indeed.
@Maxus Devasteitor Oh wow, that's amazing mind games right there.
@Maxus Devasteitor Not only that but Kriea could appear before someone talk with them and then make them forget the interaction (she does this with the Disciple) and leave a mental suggestion/impulse.
"Atris I have always been here"
Thank god this didn't get turned into a TH-cam Kids video
It's strange and I'm a bit confused but when Atris mentions that she did what Kreia asked it doesn't seem like she's talking to someone else. It doesn't seem like the exiling was done on the behest of Kreia. It seems like she's talking to herself and Kreia is just exposing that, that Atris is talking to her act of betrayal.
In fact Kreia mentions being there both times the Exile was brought before Atris. That implies being there when the MC was first exiled and and the Telos chapter of the game. So does this all mean that Kreia has literally been there this whole time ever since Malachor V? Invisible to all Jedi but manipulating key people's thoughts and minds to lead to all of this? This is fascinating but goes way over my head.
Answer to all that: Yes, Kreia has been there for all of it the whole time.
@@MileenasDentist Crazy pants. I love it.
Darth Traya/Kreia is the mortal embodiment of betrayal, therefore even if not in person, Traya was there long before Malachor V. She was there when Revan formed the Revanchists. When Revan and Malak fell to the dark side. When Malak betrayed Revan. You name it, she, by dent of who she is, was even there when Darth Vader betrayed Palpatine. She is an undying... Force.
It is an asspull to have Kreia be responsible for the Exile's exile. It is a good thing that it (and the further mention is Revan hiding 'secrets' on Telos) were cut from the game; one of the few black marks on the RCM's restored content (the other major one being Kavee on Dantooine and the resultant rewrite of Joran's quest).
she was a jedi before why would it be a asspull
Why exactly?
@@XJ0461C / @Bob Bob
Not only was Kreia exiled from the Jedi order long before the Exile was (by a matter of years; iirc before the Mandalorian Wars actually; said exile was due to her pregnancy with Brianna), but also because Kreia didn't even start her plans for the Sith nor the Exile until after the Jedi Civil War (when she retraced Revan's steps to understand what happened to him, how he became a Sith & why he returned to the Jedi). All this is per every other bit of lore in the game (from the statements from the other Jedi masters & the other companions to Kreia herself).
Having Kreia suddenly be responsible for the Exile's exile is impossible timeline-wise (she wasn't even a Sith at a time, and it wasn't until AFTER Sion/Nihlius kicked her out of the Triumvirate that she considered making use of the Exile to deafen people to the Force); that is why it's an asspull.
What would make it worse is that, were Kreia actually the one that caused the Exile's exile, the Jedi Council would have no agency (and thus couldn't actually be held accountable for their actions, because they would be doing them under the control/mental manipulations of Kreia, rather their their own innate misguided methods/arrogance/fear). It also exaggerates Kreia's powers of manipulations (as she isn't shown ANYWHERE having that level of influence over anyone anywhere else in the game - all of her other manipulations are not done as "little whispers in the mind", but as conversations with people where she places seeds of doubt with piercing questions & statements, and then allowing people to act accordingly). In essence, her being responsible detracts from her own impressiveness, the agency of the council, and the quality of the story on the whole.
I hope that answers your question to my 2-year-old comment.
@@DBArtsCreators I hardly see the relevance in when the comment was made. You didn't explain yourself the first time and chose to answer now. Also it was never confirmed that Kreia and Arren Kae are one and the same.
I feel like Kreia is speaking metaphorically in this scene rather than literally being the one to ask for the Exile to be cast out. She is speaking as the voice of betrayal, the thought in the back of your head that makes you turn on others and reject what you see before you. Darth Traya is a title, not a person, and like Kreia says, titles are things people cling to in order to justify themselves when the darkness falls around them. "Traya" in this sense is the feeling that warped the minds of the council when they looked upon the Exile and couldn't bear what they saw, not Kreia literally being the one telling them all to vote on tossing her out
Good Work Kreia!!
She asked for exile. I thought the council thought she died in the wars?
She for Meetra Surik to be exiled. The council thought that Kreia died in the war.
Plot hole: Carth flies off the hook in the first game saying that Revan ordered Telos destroyed, which is what Kreia says here. But Canderous shoots that down and says Malak ordered the planet bombarded, not Revan. And I believe Canderous, literally everything that comes out of Kreia's mouth is a damn lie in some way or another.
Malak ordered the bombardment of Taris.
Papito Qinn Gratz you didn't read a word I said. After escaping the Leviathan in the first game, Carth loses his shot over you being Reven and having destroyed Telos. Canderous objects and corrects Carth saying Malak ordered the destruction of Telos not Reven.
I watched a clip. It seems you're correct. I am curious as to why you couldn't tell me that without the aggression though.
Civility is an acquired taste, apparently.
He has clearly fallen to the dark side.
This 3 minute video > 3 sequel disney shit films.
Revan pushed the Jedi to action, time and again the deeds performed before the Jedi Civil war started in earnest did Revan seek to remind them that conflict and action, and an enemy powered by conviction wait for no one. They were ill prepared. The Sith would come regardless and as they were then destroy them. Thus Revan would force the Jedi's hand to be roused from meditations and hollow teachings of peace. When it is war and conflict that makes such a peace possible in the first place. Revan saved the Jedi order as both its champion and enemy.
Incredible. Insane.
"Atris, I am your mother!!!"
If they did a live action movie of this I’d want Helen mirren to play Kreia and atris should be played by gal gadot
Wait.. Revan was responsible for Telos? I thought Malak gave the order.
That's Taris. Malak destroyed Taris during KOTOR 1. But Revan destroyed Telos.
I know but Canderous said Malak gave the order to destroy Telos in the first Kotor. "We all know Malak gave the order to destroy your world you can't blame Revan for that."
I don't remember that. What was the context? Was he talking to Carth?
Papito Qinn yeah right after you escape the Leviathan when you're aboard the Ebon Hawk
Revan intended to conquer the planet while Malak elected to destroy it.
Before Darth Revan Got his/her Memories Removed Could Have Ordered Telos Destroyed And New Revan Probably Didn't Know His/Her Ordered It It's Like A Double Edge Sword Or Some Would Say Revan Vs Revan 🤔🤷♀️ To Different Revans.
Well Kreia Finally Destroyed Atris And Brought her to justice.
This is like when a democrat is exposed as a white supremacist.
You do realise that democrats funded kkk and that the current US president have given a eulogy for former kkk recriuter?
For your analogy to work one would require to have Atris level of ignorance.
constanza that’s an understatement
I wanted to know more about the life of Atris, Kreia, Visas Marr Nihilus and Sion but unfortunately SWTOR happened and Disney deleted the EU is a shame
: /
""""Deleted"""", yeah no. It's all still out there. If you care that goddamn much, go explore it yourself. I liked the KotOR games so much that I did my own continuation of that period in SW history because I felt like it. Just because someone is paid to write 'official' material doesn't mean it's any good, of any genuine relevance or whatnot.
But no, just keep repeating the same hateful trite over and over and over, because that will totally fix all the problems...
Great characters.
Kreia & Sauron (Lotr) were great manipulators!😈🤩🧙🏻♂️
Let's not forget Palpatine and Valkorion..
If only Disney bothered to look at the writing both KOTOR games had and taken inspiration from it, we could've had a good sequel trilogy.
They did in fact they were going to make a remake of this but it has been permanently cancelled
@@OutOfIdeas9977maybe it's for the best
I never understand this part of the story, why must there be 2 darth kreias?
I don't think Kreia is even a Darth at that point, she's just Kreia. She's just saying someone has to carry that title, and Atris apparently stepped up.
@@JnEricsonx Yeah, Kreia is essentially just saying there must always been a Sith Lord of Betrayal
"I was the one who asked her to be exiled"
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
There is no confirmation, only speculation. However, there is a theory that in this moment Kreia assumes the voice of the darkness within Atris. This whole scene is in a way the death of a person known as Atris. That is why when Exile confronts her, she says "Atris... that is not who I am, not any longer".
So when Kreia say "It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.", it is, for a woman that was once Atris, a call to accept what she is.
Kreia Is Good! Atris Is Evil! Yet In The New Version, They Say Kreia Is Evil! Atris Is Darth Traya, NOT Kreia!! I hope in a KotOR II TSL movie, they give Kreia a cybernetic hand, with Atris giving Meetra her lightsaber back, and Meetra saving Kreia from the darkness!
disney take notes
Their notes: Tone down the dialogue so that little kids will understand it, make Sion look like a regular human so he doesn't scare little kids, make Nihilus less powerful and speak basic english so little kids can understand him.
Is this where like master yoda and sidious talking about the vader?
No, yoda and sidious were just betting on the light side/dark side horse race, Atris might think of the Exile in this term, but Kreia sees something entirely different. This dialog has many more levels than the yoda/sidious one anyway, they're not really even talking about the exile. Kreia just mentions him/her to bring Atris home to her own fall to the dark side and one step closer to true understanding.
3:07
(Bugthesda Has Left the CHAT)
Am i like the only one who understands the words they are saying but not the meaning behind it?
ATRIS EXPOSED!! (GONE VIOLENT)
EXILE VLOGS GIVEAWAY PS3!!
nice !
...73694-B...
I followed you because you lied to me and betrayed me atris ...by papitia quinn