My budget would only allow a C5, but I do not regret it a bit. I did break a shifter, but they had a new updated pair out to me in days. I started with the G29 and was frustrated by spins to the point I was afraid to race real people. I rarely was able to finish a 10 minute race with AI without spinning out. The C5 changed all that. I can feel the fronts sliding and feel them grip when I apply a little brake. It looks like the R5 has more upgrade path with it's quick change wheel so, if you can afford it it looks better. 3drap has a GT wheel and magnet shifters for the C5 at a good price, but you have to disassemble the wheel kit to change wheels. I kept my G29 pedals with a Trubrake kit on it and love my whole setup now.
@johnelectric933 awesome glad its going well for you, that was kind of my sentiment that both of these entry level DDs give you a really good feel, get whichever you can afford / works for you!
If you're using a desk setup, the solution is to mount the pedals to a piece of MDF board and cut it to size so it sits up against the wall behind your desk with the pedals in position. That way it's impossible for the pedals to move under heavy braking. When i got my CSL Elite bundle a few years ago, i cut corners and simply screwed 4 round-headed screws into the MDF and laid the pedal chassis on top and it worked like a charm. No need to faff about with nuts and bolts IMO.
@@MichaelSmithRaces I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy the cammus c5 around black Friday but I have heard bad things about the pedals. Is there a set of pedals $150 or less that you would recommend pairing with the c5?
I got the R5 just last week and I'm having a blast so far. This is my first wheel as I wanted to go right to DD. I was surprised with the power it puts out. This should last a while untill I get an R12 or R16
@MichaelSmithRaces well i have thoracic outlet syndrome so I can't really go past 3.8nm of torque without it becoming too painful, but the amount of force is one thing, it's also a HUGE improvement in detail and how fast it delivers the FFB
@AdrenaLukeYT sorry to hear that mate, yes I agree I feel similarly with my VRS base that having much higher headroom seems to make the whole experience better if the actual peak forces are not higher!
I upgraded from logitech to c5 and it is a fair bit more immersive. A downside of the cammus is setup time in older games like dr where everything needs binded manually and settings learned for effects and ffb. My logis were plug n play nearly always. And dont start dr without the wheel on or you'll be doing it all over again. Overall big upgrade and it makes me want to play more. Maybe when the c12 is more available I'll sell the c5 and upgrade.
@paddyodoors2757 yeah thats a good point, I had the Moza so im used to mapping all the buttons myself but I can see if you are used to the logi that would be annoying! Hope the C5 serves you well!
I intend to have my first wheel, which one do you think I should choose? I have looked at these 2 at the official dealer in my country, I got these 2 options: 1.moza r5 bundle 3 Pedals with break performance and wheelstand Total price 640$ 2.cammus c5 wheel with cammus lc100 and Full Sim Rig Total price 725$ Which option is more worth it? I have been hesitating for a long time, hope you can tell me your opinion.
@NakarinSupanich very interesting question, I would definitely spend money on an aluminium profile sim rig before anything else, dont get a wheelstand, so of those two options I would get the Cammus bundle for sure.
Im sry but i cannot go back to 5nm now. I was that guy saying you get no benefits or it doesnt add much until i adapted to more forces. The limit of grip, loading and unloading when cornering and more is felt so much more clear and better. But for a 5nm wheel both of these are good for sure. But yeah now when i go back to 5nm it gives me that undrrsteer feeling where im needing to turn in more to get it to turn in the same. Not many realize this until you use 10+nm and doesnt go loose at times when it shouldnt when turning in.
@reviewforthetube6485 thanks for commenting, are you driving on a desk? On a rig for sure, I am loving the VRS now I have the extra headroom, but on a desk these are both good enough to get racing for me!
@reviewforthetube6485 I think this is what makes the C5 so interesting because its cheap enough to buy without worrying about the upgrade path, just buy it, enjoy, upgrade in the future if you fancy getting a rig!
@MichaelSmithRaces very true but anytime I mention the c5 on reddit people dog it and call them scammers etc. I almost feel like people make stuff up. I always felt it was good for a 5nm wheelbase and the price cannot be beaten.
Hi do you think a stand is needed with the upgraded pedal kit for the r5 to stop the pedals from moving your r5 review was great and has led me to look into getting a r5 thank you for the informative content
i just got the R5 (bundle) my first steering wheel because i always played on controller and ooh what a good choice to skip logitech/trustmaster on this point i also like the eco system next for me pedal upgrade and a shifter :)
I’ve been wringing my hands for weeks over the Cammus C5 or the Moza R5. I’d love to get into sim racing on a budget until I can figure out if i’m into it long-term and the cammus is easily a better value (cammus is $130 less than the moza bundle) but the terrible cammus pedals makes me hesitant. If I stuck with racing then getting a cockpit and loadcell pedals would be a good upgrade while the cammus keeps that cost down vs moza being more expensive.
@sailyourface If you are racing at a desk then honestly the pedals are always going to be terrible thats why I didn't get them to review in the video as its pointless because you will just be pushing them around the floor anyway. Its a tricky decision for sure, but for me I have upgraded from the Moza after a year and a half, and I would have been just fine with the cammus in that time, or a second hand logitech. I did like the Moza though so.... you just have to pick and you will have fun with whatever you get im sure!
@shfd3832 yeah if you don't have the pedals mounted to a wheelstand or a rig, then they will just be sat on the floor and as you press them they move all around!
0:38 you're skipping the point where cammus charges absolutely ridiculous shipping rates, $50+ USD, where you can get the logitech with free shipping. I'm not saying that the logitech is a better buy by any means, I just think cammus' shipping rates should be more well known, since if you pre-order one of their products you don't get to know the price of shipping until you've already spent money on the pre-order and wait to pay your balance.
@Kevin15673 thanks for sharing, I was really struggling with the price comparison due to differences globally, but here in the UK there are multiple distributors for both Cammus and Moza. I would always try to get it from an in country supplier if possible. If the shipping was not included in the pre order thats pretty shitty, and good to raise awareness of that so other people dont get caught out by it!
@kanicova I have learned a lot about this topic! I didn't bother with another video perhaps I should but the comments on my last one got pretty fierce! So here it is: It's 100% down to AIRFLOW around the Moza. The R5 can produce a lot of heat, and if there is no airflow it has no option but to throttle. This is why you get such varying opinions online, because it entirely depends on the type of environment its being used in, combined with the length of use, and the amount of torque being demanded. Most users will not be aware when the base throttles a little, so they incorrectly say it has never affected them, without looking at the log files. Since adjusting my base to radical and pointing a small fan towards it I did not have any further problems (I have upgraded now to VRS) so the overheating issue should not be a problem if you are willing to either attach a small PC fan to the Moza unit, or point a fan in your general direction. Hope that helps!
@@MichaelSmithRaces Hi Michael! Super thanks for your reply and insights. At first, I was going to buy a Fanatec, but I heard about the problems the company is having at the moment, and to be honest, I'll just stay away from the brand for now. I really like your honest reviews, and it's your videos that got me to choose Moza. I have AC in my office/man cave LOL, so it should be alright then. I hope you continue creating your videos and take us along on your sim racing journey. Great to hear you have moved to VRS. Since I'm just starting, I'll go with Moza, and maybe in a couple of years (or sooner) I'll check out VRS. Thanks!
How are the pedals in comparison? I have the C5 bundle but i use my old G29 pedals because they feel better imo. The C5 brakepedal feels like a clutch pedal.
@sebant01 I didnt bother getting the pedals to test, sorry, but that was because any pedals sat on the floor without a good resistance on the brake are not going to be great in my opinion. Best off working out how to mount pedals if you want to get a better brake feel
The paddle shifters of Cammus C5 are small, and the center circle is too big. It's weird that Cammus made it that way. Other than these, this, CSL DD Bundle and Moza R5 are better choices than Logitech G923, G29, Thrustmaster T300 and T248.
@chitose3146 yeah they had to cram that motor into the wheel somehow though, had to make the middle bigger! Belt / gear wheels can get in the bin at this point!
@chitose3146 normally I use a gt omega prime lite, a profile rig is really the best way to go, but when driving at my desk I put a box against the wall and stick the pedals infront of that!
@@MichaelSmithRaces thanks! Are you using loadcells or did you put loadcell mod to your pedals which you stick in front of a box? I'm asking because I'm about to buy Moza.
@chitose3146 you wont really be able to use a loadcell very well if its not mounted to something. You would atleast want a wheelstand I think if you were going to get loadcell pedals.
@abcdefg6970 you will be able to if you attach your chair to the wheelstand or use some stoppers to keep the chair from rolling away! Some wheelstands have an optional bit you can attach to the front that your chair wheels can slot into!
I'm using my Cammus C5 on my old wheel stand pro that I had my G27 on. I didn't buy the desk clamp, so I drilled holes in the stand. If you have a shifter mounted to it, it's ideal to have the clamp just to keep the angle closer to the Logitech. I'm just working with an awkwardly tilted shifter as it's not intended to be my long term solution. The wheel stand is sufficient for normal driving with the C5, but I've occasionally had it rock a bit if I wreck or something. Not perfect, but worth upgrading. I'm still using the G27 pedals. No idea how well it would handle a load cell setup.
@KnowerofThings possible, these things are not that well described by the companies IMO, the cammus definitely feels stronger, but not much in it really!
@Brucebalderas I've only used T300 in a shop, but I would say that both the cammus and moza are significantly better, yes, but no console compatibility of course!
@pedrohenriquebh90 they work OK, and lukes upgrade makes a huge difference, but yeah I agree if you spend the extra for Moza then you have a modular system so you can upgrade each part as you like to!
@@MichaelSmithRaces while the C5 looks really ugly, if we don't mind the looks, buying it without the pedals makes it easier to upgrade to loadcell pedals than Moza R5 because you don't need to worry about how to sell the pedals (SR-P Lite) included in R5's package which can be hard to sell. Buying a C5, clamp and SR-P loadcell can be a great basic DD and loadcell combo mostly because it'll be quite affordable. I still trust Moza R5 more for futureproofing though.
If you're using a rig, you don't even need the clamp for the C5. I'm not sure if Cammus still offers it without one, but I got mine that way & just bolted the support brackets straight to my wheel stand. I'll be moving it to a full rig as soon as I get one.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Driving videos with each wheel here:
Cammus C5: th-cam.com/video/mVUJsYY2HFw/w-d-xo.html
Moza R5: th-cam.com/video/2gP4ear-lPk/w-d-xo.html
Appreciate the shout out! 😁
@LukusMaxamus the shifters are a really great upgrade on the C5, thanks!
My budget would only allow a C5, but I do not regret it a bit. I did break a shifter, but they had a new updated pair out to me in days.
I started with the G29 and was frustrated by spins to the point I was afraid to race real people. I rarely was able to finish a 10 minute race with AI without spinning out. The C5 changed all that. I can feel the fronts sliding and feel them grip when I apply a little brake. It looks like the R5 has more upgrade path with it's quick change wheel so, if you can afford it it looks better. 3drap has a GT wheel and magnet shifters for the C5 at a good price, but you have to disassemble the wheel kit to change wheels.
I kept my G29 pedals with a Trubrake kit on it and love my whole setup now.
@johnelectric933 awesome glad its going well for you, that was kind of my sentiment that both of these entry level DDs give you a really good feel, get whichever you can afford / works for you!
Honestly respect. Am wait for 3drap to make a bigger round wheel
If you're using a desk setup, the solution is to mount the pedals to a piece of MDF board and cut it to size so it sits up against the wall behind your desk with the pedals in position. That way it's impossible for the pedals to move under heavy braking. When i got my CSL Elite bundle a few years ago, i cut corners and simply screwed 4 round-headed screws into the MDF and laid the pedal chassis on top and it worked like a charm. No need to faff about with nuts and bolts IMO.
@raithrover1976 thanks for sharing! I agree that is probably the best option if you cant get some type of mounted solution.
Im about to start my sim racing journey and out of the dozens of videos I have watched, your's has been the most helpful. Definitely subscribing🙌
Thanks @splash5900, thats nice to hear!!
@@MichaelSmithRaces I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy the cammus c5 around black Friday but I have heard bad things about the pedals. Is there a set of pedals $150 or less that you would recommend pairing with the c5?
I got the R5 just last week and I'm having a blast so far. This is my first wheel as I wanted to go right to DD. I was surprised with the power it puts out. This should last a while untill I get an R12 or R16
@timdunn4093 yeah enjoy it mate, its a great bit of kit so much fun!
I went from a used logitech G29 ($120) to a brand new Moza R9 and GS GT V2P steering wheel (around $900) and its a huge difference lol im loving this
@AdrenaLukeYT yeah im sure!! What sort of torque settings are you using 100% on wheelbase and 75% in game?
@MichaelSmithRaces well i have thoracic outlet syndrome so I can't really go past 3.8nm of torque without it becoming too painful, but the amount of force is one thing, it's also a HUGE improvement in detail and how fast it delivers the FFB
@AdrenaLukeYT sorry to hear that mate, yes I agree I feel similarly with my VRS base that having much higher headroom seems to make the whole experience better if the actual peak forces are not higher!
I upgraded from logitech to c5 and it is a fair bit more immersive. A downside of the cammus is setup time in older games like dr where everything needs binded manually and settings learned for effects and ffb. My logis were plug n play nearly always. And dont start dr without the wheel on or you'll be doing it all over again. Overall big upgrade and it makes me want to play more. Maybe when the c12 is more available I'll sell the c5 and upgrade.
@paddyodoors2757 yeah thats a good point, I had the Moza so im used to mapping all the buttons myself but I can see if you are used to the logi that would be annoying! Hope the C5 serves you well!
"fair bit more" ???? is a basic wheel vs a 5nm direct drive, how is it just a bit?!?!
@@NicolasSilvaVasault 'a fair bit more' means 'alot'???
Braking consistency is a good reason to secure your driving/pedal position. You learn your braking limits and the wheel gives you more detail.
@seebarry4068 yeah thats why I didnt bother reviewing the pedals, anything sat on the floor is ultimately too limited. You need to mount them really
I intend to have my first wheel, which one do you think I should choose? I have looked at these 2 at the official dealer in my country, I got these 2 options:
1.moza r5 bundle 3 Pedals with break performance and wheelstand Total price 640$
2.cammus c5 wheel with cammus lc100 and Full Sim Rig Total price 725$
Which option is more worth it? I have been hesitating for a long time, hope you can tell me your opinion.
@NakarinSupanich very interesting question, I would definitely spend money on an aluminium profile sim rig before anything else, dont get a wheelstand, so of those two options I would get the Cammus bundle for sure.
Im sry but i cannot go back to 5nm now. I was that guy saying you get no benefits or it doesnt add much until i adapted to more forces. The limit of grip, loading and unloading when cornering and more is felt so much more clear and better.
But for a 5nm wheel both of these are good for sure.
But yeah now when i go back to 5nm it gives me that undrrsteer feeling where im needing to turn in more to get it to turn in the same. Not many realize this until you use 10+nm and doesnt go loose at times when it shouldnt when turning in.
@reviewforthetube6485 thanks for commenting, are you driving on a desk? On a rig for sure, I am loving the VRS now I have the extra headroom, but on a desk these are both good enough to get racing for me!
Gotcha yeah you did say desk my bad!@MichaelSmithRaces
@reviewforthetube6485 I think this is what makes the C5 so interesting because its cheap enough to buy without worrying about the upgrade path, just buy it, enjoy, upgrade in the future if you fancy getting a rig!
@MichaelSmithRaces very true but anytime I mention the c5 on reddit people dog it and call them scammers etc. I almost feel like people make stuff up. I always felt it was good for a 5nm wheelbase and the price cannot be beaten.
Hi do you think a stand is needed with the upgraded pedal kit for the r5 to stop the pedals from moving your r5 review was great and has led me to look into getting a r5 thank you for the informative content
@Aaron-ze9jn yep 100% you cant have them on the floor, you could look into making an mount out of wood, but wheelstand or rig is the best path really!
i just got the R5 (bundle)
my first steering wheel because i always played on controller
and ooh what a good choice to skip logitech/trustmaster on this point
i also like the eco system
next for me pedal upgrade and a shifter :)
@xrawszn349 yeah worth it! Both great upgrades I have videos on both of the ones I got!
I’ve been wringing my hands for weeks over the Cammus C5 or the Moza R5. I’d love to get into sim racing on a budget until I can figure out if i’m into it long-term and the cammus is easily a better value (cammus is $130 less than the moza bundle) but the terrible cammus pedals makes me hesitant. If I stuck with racing then getting a cockpit and loadcell pedals would be a good upgrade while the cammus keeps that cost down vs moza being more expensive.
@sailyourface If you are racing at a desk then honestly the pedals are always going to be terrible thats why I didn't get them to review in the video as its pointless because you will just be pushing them around the floor anyway. Its a tricky decision for sure, but for me I have upgraded from the Moza after a year and a half, and I would have been just fine with the cammus in that time, or a second hand logitech. I did like the Moza though so.... you just have to pick and you will have fun with whatever you get im sure!
Why at desk, pedals are not good? You said pushing them around the floor anyway?
@shfd3832 yeah if you don't have the pedals mounted to a wheelstand or a rig, then they will just be sat on the floor and as you press them they move all around!
@@MichaelSmithRaces understood. But some people just put pedal on floor but it's not moving? How?
0:38 you're skipping the point where cammus charges absolutely ridiculous shipping rates, $50+ USD, where you can get the logitech with free shipping. I'm not saying that the logitech is a better buy by any means, I just think cammus' shipping rates should be more well known, since if you pre-order one of their products you don't get to know the price of shipping until you've already spent money on the pre-order and wait to pay your balance.
@Kevin15673 thanks for sharing, I was really struggling with the price comparison due to differences globally, but here in the UK there are multiple distributors for both Cammus and Moza. I would always try to get it from an in country supplier if possible. If the shipping was not included in the pre order thats pretty shitty, and good to raise awareness of that so other people dont get caught out by it!
Looks like we will be getting the R3 soon.
@robertcarr4172 fingers crossed! That will be an even more interesting comparison as I think the R3 will feel far weaker than the cammus....
@@MichaelSmithRaces with the R3 having only 3NM force feedback, I think it's too low for a direct drive.
you can say the T300-Tgt killers, becasue the logitech is cheaper 150-200$ but the thrustmaster still over pricing
@m.d.g1337 yeah great point, IDK why thrustmaster dont reduce the price on the T300 would make it a much more sensible option nowdays...
Thanks for your videos. Did you once again get the over heat issue with your MOZA?
@kanicova I have learned a lot about this topic! I didn't bother with another video perhaps I should but the comments on my last one got pretty fierce! So here it is:
It's 100% down to AIRFLOW around the Moza. The R5 can produce a lot of heat, and if there is no airflow it has no option but to throttle. This is why you get such varying opinions online, because it entirely depends on the type of environment its being used in, combined with the length of use, and the amount of torque being demanded.
Most users will not be aware when the base throttles a little, so they incorrectly say it has never affected them, without looking at the log files.
Since adjusting my base to radical and pointing a small fan towards it I did not have any further problems (I have upgraded now to VRS) so the overheating issue should not be a problem if you are willing to either attach a small PC fan to the Moza unit, or point a fan in your general direction. Hope that helps!
@@MichaelSmithRaces Hi Michael!
Super thanks for your reply and insights. At first, I was going to buy a Fanatec, but I heard about the problems the company is having at the moment, and to be honest, I'll just stay away from the brand for now.
I really like your honest reviews, and it's your videos that got me to choose Moza. I have AC in my office/man cave LOL, so it should be alright then. I hope you continue creating your videos and take us along on your sim racing journey. Great to hear you have moved to VRS. Since I'm just starting, I'll go with Moza, and maybe in a couple of years (or sooner) I'll check out VRS. Thanks!
@kanicova very nice comment, thank you! Good luck with the racing, its brilliant fun!
How are the pedals in comparison?
I have the C5 bundle but i use my old G29 pedals because they feel better imo.
The C5 brakepedal feels like a clutch pedal.
@sebant01 I didnt bother getting the pedals to test, sorry, but that was because any pedals sat on the floor without a good resistance on the brake are not going to be great in my opinion. Best off working out how to mount pedals if you want to get a better brake feel
The paddle shifters of Cammus C5 are small, and the center circle is too big. It's weird that Cammus made it that way. Other than these, this, CSL DD Bundle and Moza R5 are better choices than Logitech G923, G29, Thrustmaster T300 and T248.
@chitose3146 yeah they had to cram that motor into the wheel somehow though, had to make the middle bigger! Belt / gear wheels can get in the bin at this point!
I honestly feel like the center hub/button plate size on the C5 is fine. I just wish it were a round wheel & maybe slightly larger diameter.
Hey! I forgot to ask. What do you use to prevent your pedals from sliding during more intense driving?
@chitose3146 normally I use a gt omega prime lite, a profile rig is really the best way to go, but when driving at my desk I put a box against the wall and stick the pedals infront of that!
@@MichaelSmithRaces thanks! Are you using loadcells or did you put loadcell mod to your pedals which you stick in front of a box? I'm asking because I'm about to buy Moza.
@chitose3146 you wont really be able to use a loadcell very well if its not mounted to something. You would atleast want a wheelstand I think if you were going to get loadcell pedals.
can use c5+lc100 on wheelstand ? i play g29 with wheelstand and i want upgrade to c5+lc100 but i don't sure it can use on wheelstand
@abcdefg6970 you will be able to if you attach your chair to the wheelstand or use some stoppers to keep the chair from rolling away! Some wheelstands have an optional bit you can attach to the front that your chair wheels can slot into!
I'm using my Cammus C5 on my old wheel stand pro that I had my G27 on. I didn't buy the desk clamp, so I drilled holes in the stand. If you have a shifter mounted to it, it's ideal to have the clamp just to keep the angle closer to the Logitech. I'm just working with an awkwardly tilted shifter as it's not intended to be my long term solution. The wheel stand is sufficient for normal driving with the C5, but I've occasionally had it rock a bit if I wreck or something. Not perfect, but worth upgrading. I'm still using the G27 pedals. No idea how well it would handle a load cell setup.
cammus is 5nm holding moza is 5nm peak nm ??
@KnowerofThings possible, these things are not that well described by the companies IMO, the cammus definitely feels stronger, but not much in it really!
is the cammus better than t300rs?
@Brucebalderas I've only used T300 in a shop, but I would say that both the cammus and moza are significantly better, yes, but no console compatibility of course!
Cammus is ok, but paddleshift is a joke. I get moza because I can upgrade the base later
@pedrohenriquebh90 they work OK, and lukes upgrade makes a huge difference, but yeah I agree if you spend the extra for Moza then you have a modular system so you can upgrade each part as you like to!
@@MichaelSmithRaces while the C5 looks really ugly, if we don't mind the looks, buying it without the pedals makes it easier to upgrade to loadcell pedals than Moza R5 because you don't need to worry about how to sell the pedals (SR-P Lite) included in R5's package which can be hard to sell. Buying a C5, clamp and SR-P loadcell can be a great basic DD and loadcell combo mostly because it'll be quite affordable. I still trust Moza R5 more for futureproofing though.
If you're using a rig, you don't even need the clamp for the C5. I'm not sure if Cammus still offers it without one, but I got mine that way & just bolted the support brackets straight to my wheel stand. I'll be moving it to a full rig as soon as I get one.
Just get some shorter screws ..........duhhhhh
@stevep927 see if Cammus need you to join their engineering team!
@@MichaelSmithRaces No need . I know how to buy two screws
Cammus is ugly man. I don't know why they made it so ugly.
How would you hide a huge servomotor in a wheel hub and make it visually appealing?
@virtualmotorheads IDK I think you get used to it, doesnt look strange to me now! It is a bit like a kettle bell :D