Two of my favourite decks - I've often felt that the Hermetic Tarot is a good route into the Thoth... but of course, it could work the other way too...
My first deck was the Thoth and recently got the Hermetic thinking it might be more detailed with symbolism, but it automatically became clear the amount of near identical cards to the Thoth there was. I’m now very curious and started searching - it’s said in some articles that both decks (along with a number of others) were directly based on the Book T from which each member was expected to draw thier own version. I wonder if there was ever an original Golden Dawn deck that they both were inspired by? Would make sense as to why they are so near identical cards, and if so, which deck is closer in design to the original, or did one artist copy the other? There’s very little clear information on this online, some articles state the Hermetic (apparently being more accurate to Book T) was designed first but only published later in the 70’s, others say the Thoth was designed years before the Hermetic. I keep reading contradicting articles. I’m sure it may seem irrelevant to others, but this feels very important for some reason 😅 Any help or information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you 🙏
Hi @TarachinArt, thanks a lot for watching :). Yes, I can definitely see the similarities too. That's really interesting regarding the Book T. I have to admit I really don't know much at all about the Golden Dawn so that was new information for me. Very interesting to think about, whether there was an original. I imagine there were potentially lots that came before them but potentially have never seen the light of day because they were a secret society. x
@@ElementalCartomancy Thanks for replying ☺️ After lots of reading I finally found out which were made first! I wasn’t aware until this week that Arthur Edward Waite and Colman Smith were also members of the Golden Dawn, their RWS deck (1909) being created 3 decades prior to the Thoth (made 1938-1943, printed in 1969). So even though there are many differences between RWS and Thoth decks, it’s stated they were largely inspired by the Marseilles deck (1709) - which apparently RWS and other Golden Dawn members originally used when they first joined. The Hermetic Tarot came later (1975-1977), and is largely based on the Golden Dawn and Thoth, hence the similarities. As a side note, I’ve recently purchased The Golden Dawn - literally the thickest and heaviest book I own! - and while briefly flipping through it, I did see a number of the Major Arcana cards depicted in black and white, but unless I’ve overlooked them, it doesn’t seem to depict all of the trumps. I’m not sure if these illustrations are to the original Golden Dawn texts or if Israel Regardie added them before publishing in the 1930’s. I’ve yet to learn more but I’m intrigued with the history of these occults and how the tarot has evolved over the many hundreds of years of its existence. I should also mention that there are many Golden Dawn tarots decks directly based off the book, and a lot for the tarots that we use today are inspired by the book, but many people are unaware of this fact. I’m only speculating here, but it does on some level seem like there was a competitive quality about those within the Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn, wouldn’t be surprised seeing there was a lot of bad blood between members, many of which left the order (it only lasted for about 15 years) and branced off creating their own occult lodges. It is possible they were trying to out-rival one other by designing the best most popular deck. Either way Im glad they designed them, some of the best pieces of art ever made, and will likely live on for many centuries.
@@ElementalCartomancy Yes, I did find the sound overall was quieter than usual, but I didn't have any other music or anything going at the time so was able to make it out.
Yeah robin I trimmed this years ago. Around 2012 i think. I think it was the first deck I ever trimmed. Which is why its all uneven and stuff but I still like it. Have you thought about trimming yours?
@@ElementalCartomancy I have three copies. One large one I trimmed before I knew the cards very well and took all the borders and titles off, making it confusing for me to identify some of the cards quickly. The second one is a mini I bought already trimmed with a different back design, but I've misplaced those. The thired was part of a kit in bridge-sized cards which I enjoy the most and left all the borders and labels on, but still find so much detailing in the cards that I find they're hard to make everything out. I just never use them, but it was nice to see your cards in the walkthrough, up close and revisit them.
It's so nice to have you available 24/7 😅 ... definitely helpful when V is up at an ungodly hour. Thanks for this, friend. 💙
Haha aww im glad I could keep you company at whatever ungodly hour she got u up at x
@@ElementalCartomancy🤗🤗
Oh heyyyy, I'm back again 😂 but at normal business hours.
Interesting compassion Chris. I have had this deck a few years now, but never read with it, but still found it interesting to watch 🙏🏻
Thanks Simon. I didnt know u had this one :) its an interesting deck I love the symbolism. Thanks for watching. X
Two of my favourite decks - I've often felt that the Hermetic Tarot is a good route into the Thoth... but of course, it could work the other way too...
Interesting, which one did u have and work with first? I've had thoughts of getting a second copy of hermetic and colouring one in. X
My first deck was the Thoth and recently got the Hermetic thinking it might be more detailed with symbolism, but it automatically became clear the amount of near identical cards to the Thoth there was. I’m now very curious and started searching - it’s said in some articles that both decks (along with a number of others) were directly based on the Book T from which each member was expected to draw thier own version. I wonder if there was ever an original Golden Dawn deck that they both were inspired by? Would make sense as to why they are so near identical cards, and if so, which deck is closer in design to the original, or did one artist copy the other? There’s very little clear information on this online, some articles state the Hermetic (apparently being more accurate to Book T) was designed first but only published later in the 70’s, others say the Thoth was designed years before the Hermetic. I keep reading contradicting articles. I’m sure it may seem irrelevant to others, but this feels very important for some reason 😅 Any help or information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you 🙏
Hi @TarachinArt, thanks a lot for watching :). Yes, I can definitely see the similarities too. That's really interesting regarding the Book T. I have to admit I really don't know much at all about the Golden Dawn so that was new information for me. Very interesting to think about, whether there was an original. I imagine there were potentially lots that came before them but potentially have never seen the light of day because they were a secret society. x
@@ElementalCartomancy Thanks for replying ☺️ After lots of reading I finally found out which were made first! I wasn’t aware until this week that Arthur Edward Waite and Colman Smith were also members of the Golden Dawn, their RWS deck (1909) being created 3 decades prior to the Thoth (made 1938-1943, printed in 1969). So even though there are many differences between RWS and Thoth decks, it’s stated they were largely inspired by the Marseilles deck (1709) - which apparently RWS and other Golden Dawn members originally used when they first joined. The Hermetic Tarot came later (1975-1977), and is largely based on the Golden Dawn and Thoth, hence the similarities.
As a side note, I’ve recently purchased The Golden Dawn - literally the thickest and heaviest book I own! - and while briefly flipping through it, I did see a number of the Major Arcana cards depicted in black and white, but unless I’ve overlooked them, it doesn’t seem to depict all of the trumps. I’m not sure if these illustrations are to the original Golden Dawn texts or if Israel Regardie added them before publishing in the 1930’s. I’ve yet to learn more but I’m intrigued with the history of these occults and how the tarot has evolved over the many hundreds of years of its existence. I should also mention that there are many Golden Dawn tarots decks directly based off the book, and a lot for the tarots that we use today are inspired by the book, but many people are unaware of this fact.
I’m only speculating here, but it does on some level seem like there was a competitive quality about those within the Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn, wouldn’t be surprised seeing there was a lot of bad blood between members, many of which left the order (it only lasted for about 15 years) and branced off creating their own occult lodges. It is possible they were trying to out-rival one other by designing the best most popular deck. Either way Im glad they designed them, some of the best pieces of art ever made, and will likely live on for many centuries.
YOU HAD ME AT THOTH
Haha. Hope you enjoyed Neem 🥰
I absolutely LOVE the Hermetic Tarot! It's a deck a regularly reach for. Love this comparison.
Thanks Malumir im glad u liked it. How did u find the sound? Did I go quiet at points? X
@@ElementalCartomancy Yes, I did find the sound overall was quieter than usual, but I didn't have any other music or anything going at the time so was able to make it out.
Did you trim your Thoth, or have you found a version I've not yet seen? The images seem much sharper. I'm still struggling with the copies I have.
Yeah robin I trimmed this years ago. Around 2012 i think. I think it was the first deck I ever trimmed. Which is why its all uneven and stuff but I still like it. Have you thought about trimming yours?
@@ElementalCartomancy I have three copies. One large one I trimmed before I knew the cards very well and took all the borders and titles off, making it confusing for me to identify some of the cards quickly. The second one is a mini I bought already trimmed with a different back design, but I've misplaced those. The thired was part of a kit in bridge-sized cards which I enjoy the most and left all the borders and labels on, but still find so much detailing in the cards that I find they're hard to make everything out. I just never use them, but it was nice to see your cards in the walkthrough, up close and revisit them.
Ahh I see. Yeah some of them are quite confusing aren't they. Thats why I left the bottom titles on at least it helps a lot when identifying them. X
🙏🏼🥰💜
I suggest you to speak louder and modulate more clearly. Its just hard to concentrate. Thanks for the images and the intention though.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the feedback ill take it on board 😊