Shadowdark: The REAL TIME Old-School RPG
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.พ. 2023
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Check out Shadowdark on Kickstarter!: bit.ly/ShadowdarkKS
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Love your reviews! I didn't see anything describing what advantage means, or how to know if something is a critical success or failure. Was that on pp.5-6? I'm guessing it's d20+mod vs DC. And advantage is probably rolling 2d20 taking the best? Not sure about criticals - maybe a 1 or 20. Or maybe making/failing the roll by 10 or something? Thanks.
I find the main place compatibility breaks down is with treasure (this was true of Knave as well). Old D&D modules have such heaps of treasure that a referee has to manually edit them to fit these newer takes on the style of play. This looks like a great game though, thanks for the review!
Yeah I remember I had to do a lot of that when I DMed (more years ago than I care to admit). Also used to have to tone down the magic a bit in some of the published stuff. Especially anything to do with Forgotten Realms.
According to the rules, you can carry up to 100 coins for free, after that it takes 1 gear slot per 100 coins. So once you factor in gear, players might not be able to haul all that treasure away.
There is a treasure “magnitude” chart in the book which should help conversion and treasure management (it isn’t 1 gold:XP)
Just wanted to throw out a kudos for always reporting your sponsorships. I noticed on your newsletter you're also pretty clear on your sponsors there.
Hourglass for RT torches? ⏳ I love a good physical representation of mechanics at the table!
I wouldn't worry about adjusting torch time for the 10-minute search. The fact that combat is slower at the table than it is in the game world will more than make up for that. In fact, it seems highly likely that torches are going to run out during fights.
The tables and the DCC magic mechanics are the best parts
Personally I would rule that if the party needs to do something that would require a short time skip, like taking 10 mins to thoroughly investigate a room, then just say that the party got lucky and the torch their currently using 'happens' to last a bit longer than normal. In other words, let the human error in the fictional torch-making process smooth out the bumps of in game time desyncronization.
I was thinking this as well. Torches last a pretty variable amount of time in real life so I think you could say that if they argued for longer than it becomes this meta mechanic that their torches don't last as long in The game world. I think this is exactly what she is trying to do with this mechanic, stop the tendency to constantly want to debate everything to every last detail
100%
@@GagePeterson l
@@GagePeterson l
That’s a great idea
I’ve been looking forward to the release of this book for some time. I have grown tired of the super heroes PCs of 5e and this system absolutely checks all the boxes for me.
Oh yeah. I'm buying this. I like the real time thing. I would probably only use it for dungeon crawls. Start the timer and go.. though I would probably pause the timer to figure out initiative. But after that unpause and go. I like the idea or challenge of doing a dungeon in an hour or so. Or finding torch fuel to relight. I feel like this would be great to run at comic shops or on a game night to get a quick Ttrpg session in. Thanks for the video. You and Dungeon Craft have sold me on this. I also think a Sword and Sorcery type campaign could be great for this ruleset based on what I've seen.
Nice review! I backed Shadowdark. I think it will serve well to entice my 5e gaming friends to get into an OSR mindset.
Thanks for showing this off! I was a little afraid I was going to lean too hard into the horror side of it but I think it's actually pretty good. More tempted than I was before.
It's killing me that the pdf page spread here is front/back and not the actual book's layout if you had it open.
the lack of innovation hurts more tho
@@viking078 yeah it should have been ANOTHER riff on B/X with house rules tacked on /s
Good overview it's nice to see the various spreads
An excellent and fair review. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for the heads up. Getting this for sure
I backed it! This game is something fitting a niche I was looking for in modern gaming.
It's not immediately apparent from this presentation, because the PDF reader was set in the wrong way, but it looks like that the layout embraces the 2-pages spreads design, which I love.
This hit my FOMO button hard. The art and charts are very enticing. As for real world time, it's not bad, and in general, a great tool for GMs to use. I set real world timers for various reasons. For example, how long before a dungeon floods, or until a monster comes home. In particular, I find a real world timer essential when planning a siege or defense.
Great review. Well done!
Just an idea, but "Alexa, set (character name) torch timer one hour." Later, "Alexa, set (other character name) torch timer one hour.". Alexa is both competent and exacting with this task as I am sure Google is as well. We depend heavily on Alexa for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner cooking and she has never made a mistake. It would be really cool for the chosen AI to go off and tell a player, "Oh! Your torch just went out. It's dark! What would you like to do next?"
Oh, that's super clever.
Awesome for Mothership/Deadspace. "John, I kindly remind you that your oxygen will last you one hour. Goodbye"
I was just thinking that maybe Kelsey could get a timer companion app going. Just something really simple that lets you track timers for torches and a few similar things. It would be kind of a fun way to further marry that old school and new school feeling.
Thank you,thank you for checking out The Arcane Library stuff.
Pretty excited about this. I just backed it and cant wait to get my grubby hands on it.
It looks to have some well thought out designs that are purposeful in the style of game presented.
I like that the book is full of ideas rather then the typical OSR variant that is just some house rules tacked on to a retro clone.
I have one issue and its with the reviewer, You keep showing me stuff I want.
Also, I just pledged. Thanks so much for this good look at Shadowdark!!!
Great video. Great review.
trademarks of the Acrane Library, LLC (misspelled word Arcane) 1:18
Looked at the Kickstarter and it looks really interesting
Would love just a book of the tables at the back for my OSE games. Something like when Perilous Tables was offered as an alternative to Perilous Wilds for people not playing Dungeon World
Real time desync solution: buy a $10 analog clock and adjust the "current game time" by advancing or pause by removing battery.
Awesome!
I would love the minimalistic design of items and spells, but I would miss skills( still, it's probably the nicest gateway option into fantasy RPGs!
You can look into "proficiency die" in place of skills. It may help with this.
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
Backed the project. I like the tiers, well-organized and it has something for gamers preferring digital-only, physical books, and for the gamer-bibliophile.
@Nerdy Yoga Channel It's always nice to see a kickstarter that has the development already done!
Backed! I'd buy it just for the random tables.
Shame the PDF readers' spreads were not set correctly - especially given the "dashboard layout" principles of the OSR.
Good run-through though. Could be a great gateway for 5e players.
you aught to be able to insert a blank page near the start to fix it.
seems generic to me tbh
And OSE, Whitehack, black hack, knave, basic fantasy rpg, etc. aren’t generic rule sets? It’s meant to be a bridge between osr and 5e and it looks like it does that well.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 OSE was one of the first to rewrite the B/X rules, very innovative. Knave is innovative by being so small. Basic fantasy is pretty meh.
@@viking078 OSE was one of the first to re-write B/X?!?!? Fake News!!!
Thanks for this review. I'm already a fan of Shadow Dark but I don't have much experience with the OSR, so it was nice to hear your comparisons to other systems' mechanics etc.
Warhammer style magic! What's not to love?
Pledged this AM! Great critique, you pointed out some interesting questions and problems.
Great video Ben! I appreciate you taking the time to give it a once-over!
Congrats to my friend Kelsey
Was following this for a while, but am very thankful for your review; always top quality and very honest thoughts when you look at games.
That being said, me thinks Kelsey is going to need some more stretch goals... smashing those targets! Well deserved accolade for a fantastic member of the community.
I think this looks really great and much better than many modern heartbreakers, just a couple of criticisms from me. I'm on the fence of supporting the $109 tier because I see lots of great stuff in here.
I like the bare-bone nature of the ancestries, but the Elves, dwarves and Half-orcs pure stat bonuses are too min-max-y for me. I would have replaced them with stuff more flavor-ish like the others. The way the classes are designed I think is great and helps each class shine in what they are good at without too much fuss.
Like Ben mentioned, the real-time torch system is almost there but some dissonance is there because the abstracted turn resources in tradtional OSR is still there for the overland travel and fast-forwarding can create some wonky situations in the crawling turns. Without interference, 3 torches @ 1 slot will last the entire session and be trivial, at that point you might as well not keep track. The random encounters have to do so much heavy lifting to keep them extinguished. A alternate system I would put in to keep the real time element the focus would be anytime the party does anything time consuming, risky or are noisy, a die roll to decrease(d2,d4,d6 x 10 min for example) on each real-life torch timer would be a great addition that I think alleviates the issue. I would also just tie the random encounters roll(3-5 or less on d6 depending on risk level) to whenever a torch goes out, that way a really brash party needs to keep stocked on the light if they want to go in like wrecking balls and really makes them think about what they do as the torches can dwindle quickly based on their actions.
@TheArcaneLibrary Are you planning to do an actual play for this at some point? I would love to see it in action from the creator themselves to see how all the moving parts work.
RE: Actual play: toward the bottom of the Kickstarter page is a calendar showing things that will happen during the campaign, and on Tuesday the 8th the event is "Examples of Game Play" on TH-cam (at The Arcane Library's channel).
Hinging the game to real time, and then also needing to ignore that and make judgment calls on time in the game world anyway...
That's a choice. Sounds like more hassle, not less. I appreciate a dungeon crawl focused game actually explaining how to use itself though.
I think this looks great, but I don't like doing initiative in a circle around the table, I like everyone to roll it because each character is an individual, as is opponent.
Hell yes to carousing! Thanks for the review Ben. I can't believe its already 500% funded, I just woke up lol.
I'm kind of intrigued by this game
Looks good. A good way to Trojan horse my 5e PCs into the OSR 😊
I noticed Kelsey’s stuff a bit back when she was just starting this. It looks so good! Definitely will be my hobby buy for the month.
I'm a sucker for tables! can't get enough. bought.
Loving this. Backed it immediately.
Great - including a bunch of spark tables for rolling things up on the fly in the core book - I think this really facilitates using the book on its own. Random encounter activity is another very solid inclusion.
Less great - I don't love the "D20 for everything" engine for old school play, especially not using the modifiers that 5e uses (I think that's what this uses? I could be wrong). +3 to -3 in Basic D&D is already a bit wide, but something like +5 to -5 creates too large of difference in character functionally and undermines the whole random character generation exercise. I prefer *most* core stuff being only lightly affected by stats. Also DC systems tend to make characters who don't specialize in something get worse at it over time, as the average DC goes up, which feels bad.
Also some of the abstractions are not to my taste - ranges for attacks in feet isn't something that really needed to be stripped out, nor do I like the abstraction of treasure and XP.
Hell yeah! The grim aesthetic, the ease of use layout, flexible yet simple character options, the mf'n TABLES! Im sold.
I played lots of warhammer fantasy back in the day and rolling for casting feels so good, even when it goes bad lol
Also really love the addition of named boss monsters in the bestiary. Will give ideas how to build more meaningful and dramatic boss encounters.
Between you and Runehammer's videos on this game, yea, Kickstarted. Cannot wait!
Vary nice.
the monster stat blocks look really clean. the whole thing just looks really clean. I'm definitely tempted to run it for that reason alone.
I know if I was a player I'd love it, but I'm usually the GM and I'm usually also running this stuff for groups that I know doesn't love to track inventory and durations of effects and such.
I think I might be able to just do away with torch duration being a thing that is being tracked rigorously and instead place the emphasis on defending the torch from active attempts to extinguish the torch. but then I'm definitely compromising a core theme of the system (real-time pressure), so idk if it will work.
Looks good! The only thing I don’t like is the 1 torch / rl-hour. Our sessions are to short and hour pace is to fast to make that work. Thats a rule that most groups would have to fix I guess.
I mean you could just do half an hour instead if 1 hour?
That is literally an alternative rule in the book! You can always use a more OSE take on it too, but it sounds like a fun idea to try.
QUESTION: How do Saving Throws work?
Saving throws aren't really a thing, per say. If you need to resist an effect, it's just an ability check :)
I have been playing Shadowdark from the free quickstart rules for a few months now, and it has been really fun! The real time torch light in particular has been great, as it results in torches going out almost always winds up being a dramatic moment, where the timer beeping is a voice from outside anyone's control that tosses a wrench in the players' plans
Dangit Ben, with your handsome mug in the frame, I can’t preview EVERY SINGLE SQUARE MILLIMETRE of the book you’re reviewing, like I ordinarily do 😭
Just backed this!! So awesome!
Man this is really cool, I would love a sci-fi version of this game!!
Real time between sessions is how my friends play, it's very convenient for getting things done. Would recommend.
What do you mean?
Time that passes between gaming sessions passes in the game world.
@@DM_Lazenby
I'm really impressed by this game so far. Kelsey knows her stuff, has great ideas, and like any good gamer loves her some charts.
Spreads are off by 1, the numbers should be on the outside
Looks like an interesting system, but, from a design perspective, I'm curious as to why so many modern RPG books have to have black/dark covers. I personally prefer good colour art following the theme of the game, like they did with Mork Borg for example.
I could be wrong but I think it gives an old school feel when pdfs were not available and internal color cost a fortune. I suspect they do so on the cover to project that feel to prospective buyers. Also people are more forgiving when it comes to black and white art, bad color art looks childish.
So I'm guessing there is no light spell?
I am the only one who finds it interesting you can basically keep leveling ad infinitum?
That is the case in both OD&D and AD&D as well. I like that it implies that you could keep playing and levelling a character for as long as you like!
@@gbnilsson6212 I mean in adnd you Don't get anything but hp after a certain level, so technically you are right but not essentialy.
Not that, that means adnd is not an awesome game or anything like that.
Great
Backed it. Can’t wait to play it at my FLGS!
This was an instant kick for me. Kelsy writes great stuff.
Between the treasure tables and the carousing rules I don't think I've ever seen a game support the idea of a band of adventurers that is always finding treasure and yet is constantly broke quite so well. This is the system Vox Machina should have been played with.
15:41 Looks more like d50 tables.
What happens when the light goes out?
It gets dark you cant see anything unless there is a light source in a dungeon. Much harder to hit anything and hard to get out of a dungeon.
How many hit points does a level 0 character start with if you're running a Gauntlet?
1 or their CON modifier, whichever is higher! :)
Thanks for the review Ben!
10:55 mark
I like the idea of stripping back the mechanics of a RPG but time and again I’m seeing many creators are still taking from D&D (example in this review was the spells and magic items). I’d love to see more originality of design for these sections, rather than relying on D&D (which in my opinion limits the creativity at times). That said, the book looks great and I love the classes and the levelling system. Definitely going to check this out
From what I can see this is a extremely well thought out and organized system (very OSE like, and very opposite DCC) that takes some influence from some of the really fun elements of DCC. However it is coming across more like a game and less like a roleplaying experience. I grew bored of OSE because the mechanics didn't do a lot for innate world building - something I have learned I require from my RPGs. I think this will follow a similar ark for me, so I am passing it up. Again, thanks for the details, it is nice to get a sense of something before hand, even if it turns out not to be for me..
That all being said - I am really glad to see Shadowdark doing well because more and different ideas are better for everyone in the OSR space. Oh and suck it WotC (I disliked them before it was cool - yup I'm that old).
That's an interesting critique. Would you expand a little - or a lot - on what you mean by more like a game and less like a role playing experience?
I think I kind of get where you're coming from. It's more in line with somewhat detailed mechanics on what happens with your torch and can you carry X, Y and Z vs being more driven by the world and story. I wonder if you'd be more into something like Freebooters 2E/Dungeon World or another Powered by the Apocalypse type game.
Mechanics doing innate world-building is a cool thing to have. Call of Cthulhu does that the best of anything I’ve seen.
I have the quickstart printed out and it is a viable game in itself. What we get in the full deal, I don't know yet. But I will say this much, I have seen and played nearly everything since Chainmail. Shadowdark vs everything D&D and D&Dlike isn't a fair fight. It scores high points everywhere it seems. Even the page layout is superior. It might have equals, but there isn't a better design out there. The idea of spending money on something like the new rerelease of D&D 5th for 2024 has me just walking away laughing. OSE and Castles and Crusades are too many books and too much money. I'm likely going to treat myself to the hardcover just because I like products that are a 10
Had to edit: downloaded the pdfs and read them myself, this video really over states the impact of the time management aspect or at least that's how I interpreted it. This game captures nearly perfectly a solution to every DMs question of "how do I create a sense of urgency"
The game also is not as much of a "do whatever you want" ttrpg as it seemed in the video.
Backed this KS.
I'm only 4 minutes in and idk if this is for me, because I've never found a system that has exactly all the parts I like so I'm writing my own (just to run), built mostly from pieces of other systems.
But I am wanting a slit based item system. And I'm taking notes looking at this one 😁
slit based item system, i'm dying.
@@viking078 If you can make it fit, you can bring it.
I'm very excited about this book. It's the right thing at just the right time.
The real time? :)
Kelsey is awesome, and her adventures are my favorite 5E purchases. I want this one, bad.
Don't think the artwork is what is really selling the Shadowdark game? Think again. Here's a direct sampling of some of the comments from Kickstarter itself: "Amazing art. Rad artwork. I particularly love the artwork. Love the artwork! Any chance of t-shirts in the future?. The artists in this book rock! Artwork is great. I am so in love with the DM screen art. I like this art. I absolutely love the cover art. The art definitely builds your world of Shadowdark, the more art you can have the better. Love the artists you chose. Love the art. Art is dope. I absolutely love the art, your artists are killing it. Neat art. INCREDIBLE art. The ART! You’ve captured what I love about the old stuff, yet in new ways. It’s be outstanding to be able to purchase some prints. My wife and I love the artwork. Some of the best screen art I've seen. The art for your project is amazing! Art for this game is so distinct. The art is just *Killer*. Art is some of the best I've seen in the industry. Awesome art."
Darkly Dark
I knew about this but never really gave it much thought, seems kinda generic to be honest, I appreciate all the GM material too but I can't say I would pick this over worlds without number, white hack or even old school essentials to be honest, best of luck to the author though, she seems cool.
They call them fantasy heartbreakers. Its an OGL copy of D&D. But if you have enough of a social media following, you can convince people to buy.
This very much seems to be a system for those who still have a foot in 5e and don’t want to move completely to a hard OSR system. If you love OSE, it won’t be a better version of that, but for a table like mine where I love the osr style but my players are still a bit attached to 5e, this looks like a great compromise.
@@nandoginting7512 it doesn't use the OGL
Worth it just for the tables. Yowza
This looks awesome! Can’t wait to try it out. 😁⚔️💀🤘🏻
Might be cool for some? Not for me. I have issues with calling it "real time", when it takes longer to describe rooms than it would to *look* at them, spells, actions, etc, than it would to actually perform those actions.
I also don't like the "slot" encumberance thing. You said encumberance is based on slots. So what this creates is a situation where a Halfling with a Strength of 10 could carry 10 battle axes, but a Human with a Strength of 10 couldn't carry 11 daggers.
I also have this instinct thing raising the hairs on the back of my neck and telling me to *absolutely* not trust anything touted as being "true to old-school D&D", that was made by anyone that had anything to do with 5E. But maybe that's just me.
I'd make torch 30 minutes real time. Problem solved. Sounds like everything I would do if I wrote a game system. Very cool.
Ben is the best. But this video felt a bit too much like an advertisement instead of a review. Compare his tone here with his unpaid review of Mrok Borg or the zines he looks at. Still, I'm interested in the product and I'm glad that Ben highlighted it.
Why do people still use the spell failing in their rules? Is it really that engaging that the spell you want to cast fails? Side effects are fun, a spell straight-up failing is not, IMO.
I supported her Kickstarter and I'm looking forward to playing Shadowdark. I think it fits a much needed niche between 5e and OSE.
I backed 110 dollars for a good set of stuff once the kickstart is over. Can't wait to get all the necessary bits on the 30th so I can run a proper game
The time tracking mechanic feels like it is trying to be a bit too clever for its own good, and reinventing the wheel when timekeeping mechanics already work quite well. All of the dungeon crawling rules feel sort of half-baked. Random leveling feels pretty gimmicky too; seems like it would get old quick. It sort of feels like a lot of other OSR games without really offering up much that is fresh as well as useful, the torch stuff really feels like the main new gimmick. I'm really confused why everyone is talking about this all of a sudden when it really doesn't bring anything especially new or of note.
It feels like what I want to see is always behind your head. Like the information that will make or break my impression of the book is being withheld. It's nonsense of course. But it feels frustrating, after all your previous open view videos. Maybe you could make your face view panel transparent? Thanks for all your continued work here.
Love the idea, hate the execution. Just too simple for me. I like the logistics of tracking weight and slots, along with the wargaming aspects of combat by inches which this lacks.
Hi Ben
Backed looks like a great game that can be easily tweaked.
I think I missed the section that raises concerns, things to improve, Ben. This seemed rushed, not your usual quality review.
This is the best new RPG
If you haven't pledged,
who are you? What are you doing? Get out of here now! Go!
Get the book! Pledge! Pledge!
Fight! Fight the dragon!