Most of the problems with these games are small quality of life issues that eventually add up into a bigger issue there’s also the fact that they don’t really take other mechanics from their older games and incorporate them into their newer games and kind of just abandoned them
Actually yeah. The original DS1 port was a bit heavy on my desktop back in the day, but I played DS2 just fine on my crusty school laptop from 2011. Sure, I had to run all minimum settings, but it looked and played just fine. Mouse and keyboard controls were good too, which could not be taken for granted seeing how awful they originally were in DS1. Supposedly the DS2 fork of the engine had been heavily modified vs DS1, but that version was abandoned in favour of the Bloodborne fork which was developed at about the same time.
@@andyasbestos dantelion2 and katana(the Ds2 fork) are basically separate engines, since the engine itself seems to have been significantly modified, or even rewritten. It exhibits fundamentally different behavior around saving, character control, scripting, map layouts, ect. Whether it counts as a Dantelion game or not is subjective but most souls modders say it is distinct enough to warrant its own designation.
@@CrunchyTireobviously consoles are struggling but idk wtf people are talking about on pc, my garbage pc from like 2015 runs every game up to before elden ring butter smooth on practically max settings
@@ioverslept.Even my half dead PS4 that I've had for like 6 fucking years is fine. If you have EVER cleaned your damn console (Ya know like someone with any braincells should) then it should be fine.
@ioverslept. Theres no performance problems on PC. But what bothers me is the game being locked to 60fps when my top end pc could run it much better. It is possible by mods tho
And this is what critiques should be like. Because this gives genuely very helpful feedback on what Fromsoft should improve, and very few people would disagree with unless very weird people that genuely things that the game essence relies on this kind of things. That, and things that could be improved, like items descriptions that tells us their exact stats, the lack of a pause button, the minor input delay on rolling, the sometimes unexplicative tutorials, between other things. If they removed an staple of old Souls like Runbacks because they were more annoying than interesting for the most part, I don't see why they wouldn't improve over this as well.
Runbacks made sense in older games where the difficulty was mostly in the levels. Starting from DS3, they started focusing much more heavily on the bosses, so it stopped making sense.
@@lonelyshpee7873 Even back then , they were runbacks that just were plain annoying with little to no substance like DS1 and DS2 final bosses, BoC, Kalameeth, Queelag, between others. And sometimes we got completely overwhelming runbacks like Smelter Demon Duo, Lud and Zallen or Sir Alonne. It was a very mixed bag.
Souls games have never had a pause button ever bro, that’s what gives it that edge of your seat and in world experience. If you could back away from it at any point then the immersion is gone if you know you can pause it at any point. Item descriptions and stats are fine, you just gotta actually look at them and your player status sometimes as well. The delay might just even be your controller or whatever you’re using fault on that end. Tutorials? Which tutorials? Idk any of the games that had a tutorial that breaks in outta nowhere like Doom Eternal in the middle of your playthrough. Hence why you can turn them off. There’s an options menu you know.
@@maxingout6124 Nothing is more unimmersive that being forced to loose just because you have a call to attend and cant even pause the game. At least for me. Item descriptions are very vague as well. Is not the same the "Two handling weapon gives a 20% power increase" than "Enhances attacks with two-handed weapons." Sometimes I feel forced to look up a wiki. The roll delay is a genuine problem. In fact, is proved that is about 166 ms delay. Maybe you dont feel it, I didn´t felt it until my RL1 run when that could me somewhat annoying. Someting like Doom Eternal maybe not, but I can´t see why doing something such as Armored Core 6 that is clean, optional and nont very intrusive. Thats my opinion.
I worked in gamedev for several years. The goal is usually: Good enough. The game will sell either way, they don't want to put resources into further optimization. I'm sure the engine supports frustom and occlusion culling, LODs, mipmaps, compression etc. Like most engines. Also using an old engine and upgrading it along the way is not the issue imo. Most game engines today could be traced back to quake. Look at the new Dooms for example, great graphics and great performance, and the original(idTech 1) engine was made in 1995. Ofc it was modernized and rewritten several times, just like most engines. Developing an engine from scratch takes years. Then the staff has to learn the new engine. Lot of time and money, companies don't want that. I dug into Elden ring's files and they aren't using that high of a polycount or texture resolution either. I agree with you that something is fishy but I'm not sure what is. Could simply be badly written code and the visuals has nothing to do with it. When I'll get a Nvidia card I'll look into the game with Nsight and check what could be the problem if it's something visual. The Rhadan fight fps drop for example was quad overdraw, I'm 90% sure. Layering maybe hundreds of transparent effect on each other, meaning the GPU has to compute those pixels hundreds of times. Also it's not really useful to compare different consoles and especially console generations. Even with simila performance on paper , the underlying software and hardware could allocate it differently. Entirely depends on the software and how the developer utilizes it.
I'm not a Dev, but I know that having a functioning proprietary engine is a blessing, because you don't have to share your earnings with anyone other than the distributor and parent company. I think FROM only owes money to FMOD for the audio side of things, maybe Havok for the physics, and that's it. If I'm not mistaken, 30% of the earnings from videgoames made with Unreal go to Epic. This means that of the billion earned with Elden Ring (it's around that number anyway), 300 million would have gone to Epic. That's insane if you think about it: they just got to keep 300 millions, something a lot of developers have to say goodbye to.
At the same time, proprietary engines are a lot of work, or so it looks like. Some games were broken by bad engines (or bad engines for the game in question). I think of Bioware with Frostbite. Even CDPR had issues with their own engine, and it looks like they're going to use Unreal for the time being. They must have had a very good reason to willingly part ways with a huge chunk of their earnings, they certainly didn't make that choice lightly.
@@personaignota CDPR didn't have "issues with their own engine". They had tons of good people leave their company over the last decade because of mismanagement, too much crunch etc. and they are switching to a common engine, because they have to hire new people which is much easier when they use a "commonly known" engine. Oh, and of course "hire and fire" will be also easier in the future for them if they stick to Unreal.
You're not wrong. As I say with anything in life: if there are no consequences, there's no need to change your behavior. If a half-assed game still makes millions, why would they bother?
@@prima_ballerina There was another comment before that, for some reason youtube decided to eat it up. I can see it, but it doesn't appear to anyone. This is what I wrote before: I'm not a Dev, but I know that having a functioning proprietary engine is a blessing, because you don't have to share your earnings with anyone other than the distributor and parent company. I think FROM only owes money to FMOD for the audio side of things, maybe Havok for the physics, and that's it. 5% of the earnings from videgames made with Unreal go to Epic. This means that of the billion earned with Elden Ring (it's around that number anyway), 50 million would have gone to Epic. That's insane if you think about it: they just got to keep 50 millions in revenue simply by using a proprietary engine.
@@Dartokenovefrom soft has a funny history with running into problems, solving them in the next game, then forgetting the solution for the game after that.
i@@سورنامهرابی-ف8ش Sekiro handled it really well, zooming out whenever the attack was out of sight because it was above you and then zooming in. Besides, being a dot on screen is still better than getting hitted by something you cant see cuz the body itselfs of the boss dont allow you to. Its simply unfair being forced to chose between hitting the enemy or evade it.
The technical side in general is the biggest problem with their games. From the performance issues, huge loading times (especially in DeS and BB), the awful PC port of DS 1, almost no proper anti-cheat until Elden Ring, to the messy netcode, which even allowed remote code execution for years.
@@Yusa25 oh no... Its already started... The fans who think its everyone else's problem. You do realise this is all replicable despite hardware right??? If it wasnt Digital foundrys analysis would be useless on the subject.
As someone who had the horror of witnessing sote launch promised consort, that second phase was just abysmal, I could hardly avoid any of his attacks because the frames slowed just enough to completely fuck over my roll timing
I haven’t preordered anything since Watchdogs 1 and Destiny 1. Those two were mostly game-based in that I didn’t enjoy them. Nowadays I could either pay full price to be a beta tester, or wait and pay 40% off for a patched game. For as much as I love Elden Ring, it is no exception. I still haven’t played SOTE, no thanks to my lost vanilla save, but also because I expected some bs was gonna get patched. So I took a break until the product is finished.
@@JoaoPedro-sb5sq Oh it did get patched my friend, especially his unfair frame trap. Now it's enjoyable and I didn't notice any performance issues, so... you can safely buy it if you want to.
As a real big Souls addict, one thing I’ve noticed about their fantasy games is they’ve been essentially telling the same story for like 13 years. When you peel back the lore it’s about a fallen order of royals or deities being usurped from all directions and there’s usually a feminine boy or rebis like Marika or Gwyndolin who’s behind it. Mix in some dragons and eldritch aesthetic with a poorly understood curse or affliction and there you go. Now to preface, I love that stuff. I’m addicted to it. And because the story is told in such an unconventional way most barely even notice. I mean I didn’t until Elden Ring came out. That being said, I think they need a new source of inspiration. There’s only so many times you can repurpose Berserk and occult imagery before people start getting bored of it. Some people already are. I’m not one of them but given how widespread Elden Ring was, I do hope they go for a different vibe. And again, this is coming from a big dark souls fan and dark fantasy addict.
I have also noticed the similarity in these two worlds. However, despite this, there are many differences so that it does not feel that way. I also think this is the case with many if not most things in this world. There will always be similarities between books, movies, games, music, paintings, cars, whatever, etc. My beloved 2002 game tells the story of a hero chosen by the gods to save the world from dragons and evil. It couldn't be any more classic, but the execution of this game makes it enjoyable. While playing, I don't feel that it is an unoriginal, recreational work. The game is not original but in a general sense, but I don't feel that because I haven't played all the games of the world.
technically, this is the story they been telling with kings field too so something going on for 3 decades straight. however, the vibe of kings field and shadow tower are alot more melancholic & lonely than the actiony apocalyptic stuff that souls games have now.
@@vj7248 That is true. Vibe and atmosphere counts for a lot and that can really alter the mood and execution of a story. I do like how even though FromSoftware uses similar tropes through their stories they still know how to make it seem fresh in every iteration. That takes talent and work.
@@NocnaGlizda That is true. When you get down to it most fantasy games have a similar story on paper but it all depends on the execution. FromSoftware really know how to make each game feel relatively fresh, a remarkable feat, especially given how many of the artists and creators have been behind this franchise for a long time.
I remember hearing from someone (I think it was jacksepticeye) about running the PS4 version on the PS5, but never really understood why, until this video. Tbh I was guessing that this video was going to be about the difficulty or something, because I’ve seen that song and dance before with similar titled videos, but now having seen this in full, this is a problem that should be addressed, because we’ve seen that same problem and how far it can go with Bethesda. I would hate to see Fromsoft be limited by their engine, and would be happy to see them take a good 3-5 years transferring their assets to an updated engine. Elden Ring has become one of my favorite games, and I have Fromsoft to thank for that, I don’t want to see this be their peak.
not a GPU issues. more like a bottleneck in CPU parallism and thread optimization issues. the most common thing that kills fromsoft engine performance are bullet arts. That's why scrubs on PC crash your game with bullet art spam. So it's an engine physics and pipeline issue 🙄
Actually may be. I get the same stutters in maximal settings/minimal settings. None of the settings except SSAO and Raytracing has real impact on the performance. (Disabling e-cores in the bios helps with the frequency of the stutters, but doesnt get rid of them.. theres no real workaround, even in offline mode without the steam EAC shovelware running in the background its not a steady 60..)
So few people seem to grasp this. You can boot up ER on PC right now and cast night maiden's mist anywhere you want, at any resolution, and the game will show extreme difficulty maintaining 60fps across hardware ranges, while still maintaining better performance on PS5 - this should raise a lot of eyebrows. This is clearly CPU shenanigans of some kind.
Most of the engine issue are cpu related, just like dragons dogma the cpu optimization is terrible and unlike gpu bottleneck this can't be fixed by reducing graphics, it needs either an overhaul to the way the engine works or deleting assets from the game that causes the issue and both are more difficult to fix than gpu issues and unlikely to implement Cpu problems seems to be a common thing with Japanese games especially large open world
Yep 100%. It's maybe a hot take, but I think minimizing these CPU bound assets in areas where they cause problems is probably the main way forward. imo a good example of this was the monkey swarm in Sekiro. That would have probably crashed a PS4 if they tried to do it the normal way. Instead what they did was just make the AI and animations of those specific monkey enemies in that one spot only update at 15fps lol. So it looked a bit crap, it was visibly choppy, but the upside was the framerate of the game itself remained more consistent. Instead of getting a sudden and massive inputy delay spike combined with choppiness spanning the entire image, only the enemies themselves looked choppy whilst everything else ran at normal speed. Adapting the engine to make it more performant in those scenes is also worth doing (and I'm sure they have been doing that with every game), but I'm not sure how far they can go with that. I definitely don't think moving to another engine entirely is likely to be the right call, because I really can't think of a single example off the top of my head where that has even been done let alone worked. Not to mention most third party engines have their own issues.
couldn't care less if they ever switched engines. they have perfected the weight and feel of these games. no souls-like has been able to capture it. i agree, improving makes sense. seems like everyones going the Unreal Engine route and these games just becoming way too sterile.
Ue is trash, every game is looking like custom Fortnite gamemode and runs like sh*t I much more prefere games with their custom engine because they feel unique and not like a new coat of paint with a different name on it.
It’s been updated for the last 10+ yrs. It’s the same engine used in DS1 only heavily tweaked and updated every release. They absolutely need to change game engines.
@@Darksoulsboy69 don't put your subjective opinion across as objective, please. A prime example of a developer nailing literally every aspect is Neowiz with Lies of P. I get a locked 120FPS and native ultrawide support at max settings on the 1.0 release. You can't say that the engine fromsoft use is the life and soul when it is perfectly achievable on other engines, that's just categorically false.
@@endth1s10 they absolutely will tho, i think you mean give an objectively unbiased critique, which, even in that regard, people will still seek out any negative aspect of your opinions
@@endth1s10Souls games have terrible balancing. I'm all for adjusting difficulty through imbalanced equipment, but Fromsoft makes it way too easy to trivialize their games. This sucks when players just blitz through the game only to never touch it again when they're done with it. This especially sucks when they bring their "touch once and never again" mentality towards equipment, because if certain weapons/spells are unusable after their first adjustments, they're not getting fixed anymore. Just wasted assets. I still get jumped whenever I make that criticism...
I am still so perplexed as to how they release AC6 with ultrawide and 120FPS on PC (buttery smooth) but never introduce the same thing to ER. they could have easily patched that in when doing the DLC 😪
No it doesn’t. AC6 on PS5 runs at less than 60fps. AC6 on PS5 playing the PS4 version is locked at 60fps with a noticeable dip in resolution. So no, it doesn’t show the engine can run well.
I like the educated critique. True journalist mentality and im about it. Huge souls fan but i can totally understand where people talk about performance. I personally enjoy the gameplay loop of souls games. Thats what keeps me coming back at the end of the day, while there are games that definitely look better, i think nothing plays better than a souls game.Fromsoft could literally do it in a game with stick figure characters and id still pay the 70 bucks 😂
I couldn't agree more. I haven't played much of ER but in my current BB runs I have definitely been feeling the poor optimization issues. As someone who really likes BB when dealing with flickering, input drops, or magical getting hit when not near the attack(this is rare but it does happen) it can ruin the moment. I know when bb gets fully emulated this will be fixed but sad to hear that it's still an issue. Personally I think it's the publishers rushing the developers and not letting Fromsoft take their time. Because as diligent as Miyazaki is I'am pretty sure he wouldn't release the game until the performance was fully optimized
lol, so you played the one game locked on PS4 specs running at 30fps and determined the engine is bad. OK.... Bloodborne is literally the worst running souls game now for that reason.
@@CrunchyTireit has nothing to do with 30fps it has to do with frame pacing which BB suffers from. This is a well known issue with the game. I would recommend you do more research before commenting
@@primary_magic1227 Yes, basically all criticism is subjective and it's silly to expect otherwise. That's basically like saying you're only allowed to state facts. E.g. "The game sometimes drops from 60 to 40 FPS". But you can't say "that's a big/bad drop" because guess what, that's subjective.
@@primary_magic1227 Every criticism is subjective. If Scorsese would criticize a movie that jsut came out, that is still subjective. Because that is based on his view point of what makes a "good" film.
all criticism is subjective, only because people dont think like you doesnt mean their critic is bad, biased or unvaluable. Jesus elitist like you is why this fandom sucks ass.
Each game pretty much just tells a variation of the same story, like a theatre where the same actor always plays a different character but with a similiar role
I’ve honestly never really experienced performance issues with a FromSoft game, unless you count Bloodborne being capped at 30fps as a “performance issue”. But I appreciate that everyone has different results and I think this was a solid critique video
Maybe if you play them on decent pc....if you're on console,you must feel it. No way you won't notice it. Not just frame drops but also terrible frame pacing.
Yup, totally agree. But I just hope they don’t switch to UE5 that’d be even worse to me tbh because I like it when there is variety to game engines. ID tech engine is really good, can’t wait to see their new improved version in Doom The Dark Ages. Though new engine is a really hard thing to do I think since devs will need to learn it from the scratch. Not a dev so idk.
Unreal Engine is the industry standard. If they did switch to it, development would become easier everyone knows how to use it. Fromsoft can't optimize their games so the switch to UE will do nothing.
@@Legion849it is not that easy. Switching engines means all assets, knowledge, and tools have to be built from scratch, and that takes years on top of UE5 still having notable issues like shader compression.
Flipping back and forth between console and pc gaming in the last half a year or so has taught me something: unless the frame rate drop is so egregious you might as well be walking through molasses, it’s entirely negligible about 90-95% of the time. Folks are out here talking like Bloodborne played in stop-motion most the time when that just isn’t the case either on the ps4 or ps5.
the answer is that jsut dont be so damn obsessed with fps, ive played every title across 3 consoles and never once did i stop playing and cut my flow just to complain about an fps dip
could just be me, but I never noticed the frame rate when playing on PS5. It could just be the game itself or me being oblivious, but I never had a thought about the frame rate dipping except for when I loaded into Cerulean Coast on day 2 of the DLC dropping. The frames were in the single digits for a second before stabilizing. But that just goes to show how great of a game it is when I never notice it running on 40-50fps and always thought it was at 60
the problem is that they all play the same, look the same, and are all slow paced , with janky unresponsive animations deeply ingrained in the game design, they need you to commit to what you do and pay the risks. I wish I had an unforgiving difficult game but more action focused, where combat has room for movement mechanics and techs that favour dexterity and faster paced gameplay. No, Im not shitting on from software, it is a top tier developer and deserves its praise
People really do give Fromsoft too much of a pass on the performance of their games. Their is geuinely no excuse for such consistently poor optimisation from such a successful studio. Every review and every player needs to call them out on this constantly, whether they buy or like the games or not. Good games and good performance are not mutually exclusive.
i get what you mean, but the reason me and a lot of others dont call it out is simply bc we dont have the issues. the only time i ever experienced performance issues in a souls game (ive played them all except sekiro) was when fighting consort radahn, and they fixed that with the latest patch
@@jeniks1_ You can't just gaslight people into saying the issues do not exist. They definitively, objectively do. On the other hand, not being bothered with it and being okay with it is a perfectly acceptable opinion.
@@Saffreuge when and where did i gaslight ppl into saying the issues didnt exist? im saying the reason more people dont talk about it me included is because we dont have those issues, that as well is objective
You summarized it perfectly: “I and everyone else will buy it anyway”. The reason why FromSoftware games keep releasing with performance issues at launch, is because the people buying them choose to tolerate such issues. They don’t put in more effort because they’re not being pressured into doing so. As much as we like to rag on “broken and buggy games”, I think the truth is that the general gaming community doesn’t actually despise broken and buggy games as much they claim to. Cyberpunk was considered a historic moment in this regard, yet so many people were willing to forgive it due to how much they enjoyed the experience of the story and the gameplay. So long as players are able find enjoyment in playing the game, nothing else really matters to them. We could sit here and talk about how detrimental of an attitude towards the gaming industry that is, but that’s just how most people feel.
I think its a mistake to claim the issue comes from the engine. With Lance's ps4 patch you can play bloodborne with fixed frame pacing, its hugely a developer issue.
My main issue about souls games is that they caused so much damage to other third person/hack and slash games or any game with a Perry mechanic to the point that any new game that comes out are cursed to forever be labeled as a souls like despite not playing anything like souls games
I had this thought floating around in my head. Every time I see the death chamber, the lack of jump mechanics, the inability to do some in-game things like dousing a burial blade with electricity.
Just thought id chime in that elden ring on ps4 has been reported by numerous users to cause crashes and data corruption on the console, its happened for me and i found sveral reddit posts with the same issue often citing that sony support said the error code recieved on crash simply didnt exist.
And you didn't even enter the territory of how their engine is limited in terms of basic RPG elements like insistent NPCs routines and junky quest progression. These are two aspects I personally hope they get better on their next games.
you should try out Armored Core 6, it being 'linear' definitely allowed them to optimize better. allowing it to look and run way better than Elden Ring.
I've seen it said elsewhere that FromSoft with Elden Ring is where Bethesda was with Skyrim. Both were games that soled widely beyond expectations, but both are where their respective engines are really starting to show their age. We saw how Bethesda failed to heed the warning and fell from grace, let's hope FromSoft doesn't repeat the same mistakes
Well, Bethesda’s fall-off wasn’t solely because of the engine (but because they made a few great games for their time, can’t replicate the success now, and rely solely upon re-releases to stay relevant), and I don’t see Fromsoft repeating the same issue at least as far as the games themselves, but I do think they will have to modernize some internal stuff at some point.
For me personally, I can’t tell a difference after about 35-40 fps. All those years of fallout new Vegas slideshow on ps3 ruined my eye for this kind of thing. My laptop can run things at 100+ fps and I can’t really distinguish it from my ps5
I thought you were about to mention how every theme/silhouette/level design and character archetypes are recycled in every from soft game. Even reused assets. It can either serve to give a comfy familiarity (like the American horror story anthology) or serve to be redundant and seem lackluster in imagination. But seeing carian manor look alikes used in every from soft game, seeing characters with the same armor silhouettes, and the reused enemy models with slight variation…. It gets a little eye-roll inducing.
Nearly every developer and company reuses assets, and asset reuse is a notable reason why their catalogue has has consistent releases for the past decade, sane with RGG and the Like a Dragon/Yakuza games. Without it, these games would take years and absurd amounts of budget to make, as well as cause more problems, something ex-BioWare devs for example noted when they switched from Unreal to Frostbite and had to remake everything. And nearly every developer will campaign for asset reuse cause it makes development smoother and easier
@@charlestonobryant807 there, to me, is an amount of asset and theme reuse that is reasonable. Theirs is very obvious and in every game. Every time I see those astronomers globes in the copy and paste study/academy sections in from soft games, my eyes roll so hard. I think they get too many passes to where they have done little to evolve much as developers. And I think Miyazaki has hinted at that when addressing his limitations in making the elden ring DLC because it was limited mechanically to the structure of the base game. And how he is moving in a new direction in his future projects. Fromsoft has been stunted by its own ass-kissing community of fans, but now that it’s getting more wide spread accolades, I think they are headed in a better direction. If what Miyazaki said means what I think it does
I mean how many times do you just refer thematically to the dark souls trilogy when making lore comparisons to bloodborne or elden ring? Because it’s all the same thing with different aesthetics - kind of
@@Haydentrudyjonescan’t wait for yet another fantasy rpg with EVILLLL gods and the world is in a cycle perpetuated by the EVILLLL gods and you gotta kill the EVILLL gods and take their place 🙄 and all the challenges are pressing B at the right time because FromSoft fans hate when the challenge is anything other than another Artorias clone. And there’s also Berserk references yet again
The engine is definitely an issue but changing it most likely won't fix the problem, it's fromsoftware inability to optimize their games that is the biggest issue, as you mentioned the radahn had terrible fps drop and fromsoftware finally fixed it except it took nearly 3 months after release to do that which makes no sense, it's either they didn't even know that the issue exist or they didn't know how to fix it until recently and I think it's the latter, There are examples of very old engines that are super advanced, Rockstar rage engine is the best example, I think it deputed back in 2006, it Had terrible performance issues especially with gta 4 and yet Rockstar managed to improve it to the point most new games can't compete with rdr2 a 6 year old game or even gta 5 a 11 year old game So it's 80% fromsoftware fault, in a way they are just like Bethesda
As someone who's played every souls game - from the original Demon Souls for the PS3 - I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yes, there is a problem with From Software's engine. The problem with From Software's engine reminds me of how some people complain about Bethesda's engine. Don't worry, everyone, I wouldn't imply that From Software's games are buggy. What I'm trying to say is: I do not wish for From Software to go down the same path as Bethesda, never. What I'm trying to say is, that repeatedly using the same engine is something symptomatic of something bad that is to come ...if that small problem isn't resolved quickly. Otherwise, that small problem can snowball into something big and bad ...sort of like how things look like for Bethesda, Ubisoft and EA.
Hope this video blows up. Not because from will change anything but because I'm tired of people complaining about stupid stuff when it comes to from games. Let's start talking about the actual problems like mentioned in this video please
I think a massive show of this issue is bloodborne being made on this engine has made it so hard to emulate that only now are we truly starting to see emulation
Not to mention this engine, along with their netcode, makes an insufferable pvp experience. Every souls release they nerf Bleed in PvP because people abuse ghost hitboxes that apply status effect even when rolling. NPCs never do this. Not to mention their equipload mechanic is outdated and poorly designed. You can hard-swap items from your inventory, bypassing having equipment slots and defeating the purpose of equip load outside of heavy armor. Also, the poise system is so unintuituve and opaque, people have no clue what it does unless they look at the code. They need to redesign their core engine and mechanics thay have been severely neglected since Demon's Souls. We can only tolerate so much jank. We don't need another Starfield situation in the future. Im sure Fromsoft can do it, given how amazing and polished Sekiro was. They should really look towards the modding community for inspiration, because the Elden Ring Reforged mod addresses a ton of issues with base souls mechanics (such as backstep being useless outside of DaS2). It makes me appreciate DaS2 now because they experimented with the formula to make improvements.
From Software changed the engine almost (or maybe literally) half dozen of times. Therefore, it is not possible to generalize and talk about as a whole... Dark Souls 1 engine is different Dark Souls 2 engine is different Dark Souls 3 engine is different So... How do you talk about as "the issue with the engine"?... 🤔
My biggest problem is I can never experience them for the first time again, and read all the entries, and watch all the lore videos on them again, truly cursed with knowledge of my favourite Games ever
Doesn't armored core 6 share the same engine as in sekiro and elden ring yet it could do 120fps, ultra widescreen, hdr, ray tracing without any lag or major issue?
Same here lol, I’ve started playing the previous souls games(I started with Elden Ring) then I had to find some other souls likes or games that are equally good like nine sols and hollow knight, now it’s really hard to find games I really like
So you also need to take into consideration that videogames have also taken a nosedive recently when it comes to being well... Actually good... DEI and Woke Agendas and companies have made most games suffer aside from the few that kicked all that to the curb. Using Elden Ring as a standard for today's new games is like comparing gold to sewage. Aside from the handful of good games.
What I really want to see someday is a Fromsoft game with the usual gameplay, but set it in a setting at the height of an age. All the DS games+ER and maybe bloodborne are all set in that mould setting, the post-post-apocalypse world. Considering that heroes existed in all of those high times in the previous games, I'm sure that they wouldn't have too much of a problem writing a game around those ages of a setting. Imagine how different a Fromsoft game would be if you walked through a city and actually saw normal people for once in a place that was in pristine condition and not just ruins. It'd feel so much different from the other games (doesn't mean I don't like the mould setting). But, having a bunch of NPCs would definitely tank the current engine, lol
this and the camera, god it's bad, when you face gigantic enemies and the camera doesn't zoom out or clips in walls alot. after playing games such as nioh 2 and black myth it kinda sucks alot, even if it's better in ER, it's far from good
Also from a challenge runner's perspective there are annoying issues like the "hockey stop" which has been a problem since DS1 and it's still present in Elden Ring. Like these things can literally ruin your no-hit run.
Bruh. This is the most classic yt thing ever. A mf with 7k subs out here showing people making a video that should have millions of views. Blow this shit up.
One point I would make on the engine side of things is that it appears to be more of a CPU optimization issue, rather than GPU, so the game's graphical fidelity and resolution is often less relevant that it might seem. You can see this with hardware monitoring software on PC by turning on the stats for every CPU thread. You have to turn all of them on, i.e. CPU 0, CPU 1, CPU 2 , CPU 3 etc. etc. When a lot of people do this they're often only displaying the total usage, which will pretty much always show a low usage % outside of loading screens in Elden Ring and the other Souls games, leading people to believe that it must be a GPU bottleneck instead. This is usually exacerbated by the fact that they're not correctly tracking their GPU usage either, but I digress lol. The total usage stat is just an average of the individual thread usage, so it's not a very useful CPU stat to track in most cases. What these games are doing, in the more CPU intensive scenes (e.g. dragon breath attacks and cannon mausoleum in Elden Ring), is placing the bulk of the work on only one or two CPU threads. So you might have a 16 thread CPU showing < 30% total usage, but what's actually happening is the game is completely maxing out a single thread (it will probably only show 80-95% on the software), and that is what is tanking your frame rate. I'm certainly no expert on game engines, but I assume it probably is a mixture of "bad engine" and optimization. For whatever reason, a lot of visual effects in these games that seem like they would be more GPU related are actually being processed by the CPU. I haven't tested the old version of that Radahn fight from the DLC, but I would not be surprised at all if it's the same deal there. And obviously the developers are not doing this frivolously, there will be a legitimate reason they're doing it this way. Personally though I find myself in the "they should just stick with this engine and work around the limitations" boat. Because I'm not sure there even are better alternatives. If they did what most other devs are doing nowadays, and switched to Unreal for their next game, likely all that would happen is the GPU requirements would double and the game would still stutter anyway.
There was an issue early on in ER's life where the graphics card was not even used and naturally created a lot of problems, performance is also specifically mentioned in 9 of the 23 total patches. I think the primary issue is making it open world because simply put there's a whole lot of stuff that needs to be rendered at any given time, AC6 basically has no issues with performance despite it having a lot more going on at any given time. I think the only time DS3 chugs is when there's a lot of fire at once like occasionally on embering or a few other occasions(honestly other than embering I can't recall any off-hand but I haven't played actively in quite a while) though tbh a lot of their games seem to dislike fire like the Old Lord's bosses in Bloodborne chug hard anytime fire happens so that's interesting
Sekiro is my first Frommsoft game and honestly I think it’s the best game I’ve ever played. I tried Bloodborne and I didn’t have the patience to even make it out of the graveyard. Once I’m done with Elden Ring I’ll give Demon Souls another try because I definitely wasn’t enjoying myself the first time and I’m hoping the skill translates
AC6 is a prime example of what they can do for optimisation for the engine. I do agree that it might be time for the havoc engine to hang up it's dancing shoes but I'd honestly just be happy if we got more games like AC6 that have 120fps, native ultrawide support and good optimisation out the gate. I personally LOVE the graphical style of the havoc engine but the performance is just abysmal in some instances.
What is AC 6? None of them are numbered after Black Flag and there are 13 with a 14th on the way, (technically there’s Liberation but who cares about that) Edit: You’re talking about Armored Core 6 ooooooohhhhhhhh, sorry
The engine problem is one that affected me on a subjective level while playing Elden Ring: same old reused animations for almost anything, leading to a character playing character moving at dark souls speed while the enemies play at bloodborne/Sekiro speed. It was specially annoying while reposting and healing. Great vid!
@@Re-Bourne good players DO complain about that actually. The only ones who dont are fanboys who think fromsoft can do no wrong. Elden ring bosses are mostly still really really good, especially when it starts to click, but if fromsoft pushes the speed of bosses any further they'll be bad. Most bosses are at the LIMIT of what the standard moveset can even handle (aka, bosses track so heavily and attack for so long, that any longer and we would start seeing more and more "frame trap" attacks). Elden ring needs to be the final crescendo, if it gets any faster in their next soulslike without any major reworking of player movement, it wont be fun and challenging anymore, itll just be absurd and frustrating. The cracks are showing, and THATS what people are pointing out.
I would say that this is a very subjective matter with shit coming from both sides; Rather you are a casual not wanting to learn, or a fanboy that wont listen to criticism. Personally is a take I like it, because ER have an insane combat expression that allows these bosses to the beaten on multiple ways without feeling too underwhelming. The main point I see isn´t about speed more that is about variety, and the sheer amount options, even by base moveset standarts you can do to deal against the bosses. In fact, is when these bosses removes this combat expression when they get bad (PCR Pre-Nerf) . But I can see the flipside on bosses that gets extremely underwhelming because they just can´t defend well , despite considering a "DS Boss" (Midra). Personally overall, these bosses are my favorite on a mechanic standpoint, and my criticism goes to more QoL take on some stuff. I didn´t felt that bosses that has Sekiro moveset because I seen and fought Sekiro bosses via mods, and trust me, the experience there is nothing like an ER boss.
Elden Ring doesn't use the same player animations as DS3, if that's what you mean. They're completely redone, and indeed slightly faster. If you go back to DS3 you'll immediately feel the difference, it feels like you're moving through mud compared to Elden Ring.
DS3 has a memory leak on PC that was never fixed which is one of the main causes for the fps studders. Not sure how smooth the console version runs. ER runs perfect on my pc as I've never had any issues but I know a lot of ppl did have studder and freeze issues. Fightincowyboy's walk thru of ER DLC you can see just how bad the performance was and from my research it was tied to a core scheduling issue in windows for ppl on AMD cpu's. Not taking shots at AMD as I honestly believe based on the research it's Microsoft's lack of proper optimization for AMD chips which is another reason I've chosen to stick w/ Intel. Microsoft even to this day is still screwing AMD users w/ the lack of proper optimizations.
The engine is one of the main reasons i love these games, i love how it feels, it's like every single movement your character makes is in your control and imo why most Souls likes don't feel as good. I hope they can optimize better but if it comes to a point where the only choice is switching to a completely different engine i'm not buying any new games (i'm lying i'll just be very sad)
Imagine miyazaki made a standalone souls game, but instead it takes place in the future (2100s era) where an alien species that landed on earth millennias ago re-awakened to invade after its thousand years of consuming energy and you awakened from your pod chamber 300 years too late (kind of like code vein but if miyazaki makes it, it's better)
Gotta tell you, Im absolutely tired of people talking about Fromsoft titles with all the revent ER discord. But I know I can expect something worthwhile here.
I don't care about FPS and I am totally ok with how Bloodborne works on PS4, but the biggest complaint I have is the part of the formula that you always arrive late to the stage after some great events you never see having already taken place, then you play through your journey through a one of the more difficult games there are, only to get a few seconds long unsatisfactory ending as a reward. For example, if I decide to go fight my way through zombified Lordran, die 1000 times in the process and burn myself to ashes for it, I want to see that Lordran fluorishing again or the cycle being broken rather than.. you know what + credits roll. If I slay nightmares and make extra effort to discover and finish off the true antagonist, I want to see that sun shining over Yharnam. And so on, you get it.
the er performance was crisp 60 fps on pc for me until the dlc came out, then places i was getting 60 fps in the base game non dlc zones started to drop and get unpredictable and the dlc zones near any of the big forge guys is like 45fps when they start shooting the fireballs out
And yet....From Software is wildly successful and hasn't missed in well over a decade now. Maybe frames per second doesn't mean jackshit in the grand scheme of things
I honestly did not know this was an issue at all. The Radahn fight was the first time I ever saw a problem. But ima simple person. Graphics mean very little to me. Tbh I actually kinda hate the hyper focus on graphics. So many games seem to suffer for “better graphics”. I frankly am 110% satisfied with DS3 quality graphics
@@lonestar6709 They weed out the weak. Nothing wrong with that at all. People realize they don't have what it takes to git gud and leave Also...why are you applying live service mentality to a single player game?
30 FPS especially on souls games looks terrible and makes the game play look and feel worse it’s not as bad on console but on kbm it’s horrible I have a mid-high end rig and sote was unplayable for the first few weeks because it would go from 60-40-50-25-60 Fromsoft needs to fix their framerates
Haha good catch. I chose not to include it. DS2 was built off of DS1's engine, but so was Bloodborne. They chose not to build off of DS2's engine and instead go with Bloodborne's updated version of the engine for future games.
To be honest, I am done with soulsbourne/likes. AC6 scratch an itch that I've never had before and I needed more. Since AC6 release, I've played their older title in the series and become addicted with the gameplay and the customization options.
Poorly optimized, janky animations, recycled assets, convoluted story that REQUIRES a wiki to read and the worlds JANKIEST camera, and much more. And this is coming from a person who has beaten Sekiro (need to beat again for a plat), platinumed BB, beat AC6 (need to get S rank to plat) beat DS3 and am currently playing the Demon’s Soul’s remake (currently on 3.2) and have ER in my backlog. So before anyone get’s on my head, I’ve played the games.
Fully agree, at this point the only solution would be FromSoft switching to Unreal Engine. They keep cutting corners with their engine mainly because they can reuse old assets/animations.
UE would probably be just as awful a choice (traversal stutter & bloated system specs necessary to even run the hunk a junk that's UE5). IDK man, UE has kinda left me rooting for anything but that engine...
"They keep cutting corners with their engine mainly because they can reuse old assets/animations." That doesn't make sense. If their animations come from any standard industry software package, they can just import into the new engine. Even if it doesn't, they just need to write a converter/importer program as a one-time job, and then they can bring it all in. The real issue is they have a team with tons of experience shipping games together with an engine they make and own, and now all of them need to learn a new engine.
@@TheMisterGuy switching engine is surely a painstaking process and why I don't think we will ever see FromSoft doing that for as long as they keep producing Miyazaki-quality games.
@@lionheart4424 Yeah it'll just get more and more painful until the dam breaks. One nice thing about using a game-agnostic engine is the engine company is out there upgrading it while you make your game. Then when you go to the next game, you have a team that knows the engine, and you can upgrade and just learn the new features, and you didn't have to pay full price for the R&D on all that. As their engine ages, it'll get more and more painful to keep upgrading it.
good to know only problem for fans is performance. not repetitive story telling, recycled bosses or same idea repeated over and over again. good to know black myth came out with interesting combat, interesting story and isnt following these games blindly.
I've played DS1, DS3, BB, ER & now, I'm playing DS2. Elden Ring is basically the only time I had stutters & it was with Promise Consort & the Dancing Lion. I saved my fights & watching them back, IDK how I wasn't killed when there where moments it was basically frozen.
I have a i7 4600G + gtx 1660 super + 16 gb RAM (low tier specs) and I run Elden Ring at high/maximum in 1080p with constant 50+/60 FPS. Much better than I expected when I bought the game. Maybe problems with performance start at higher resolutions or/and with ray tracing...?
i always hated that people never talk about the issues with the games because no game is perfect and no engine is perfect that's kind of the point, devs work on new games to try to perfect what they wanna do
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Genuinely cought of guard by a video talking about the souls series problem not mention dificulty or anything subjective but a genuine problem
Yessir
Most of the problems with these games are small quality of life issues that eventually add up into a bigger issue there’s also the fact that they don’t really take other mechanics from their older games and incorporate them into their newer games and kind of just abandoned them
Difficulty is only a problem in elden ring because this humble timed dodge system had been pushed to its utmost limit by now 😂
Anyone who complain about souls game difficulty is doing something wrong
@@Im-crazyfrogbro you beat pre patch consort radahn no summons without the fingerprint sheild?
The problem is that there are not enough of them
Come on Miyazaki, it's been 3 months, i need more!
Sekiro 2 plzzzzz
@@himanshumaurya428idk about sekiro 2, but not getting any dlc for sekiro is criminal
Thank you! I need ds4, ER 2, BB 2 and 3. Also, why is fromsoft not making Dinosaur games. psh
@@whipwalkademon souls: am i a joke to you?
Lies of P scratched a very similar itch.
Ironically Dark Souls 2 is their most optimized game on pc. You can run this game using the worst toaster pc that you can imagined.
Actually yeah. The original DS1 port was a bit heavy on my desktop back in the day, but I played DS2 just fine on my crusty school laptop from 2011. Sure, I had to run all minimum settings, but it looked and played just fine. Mouse and keyboard controls were good too, which could not be taken for granted seeing how awful they originally were in DS1.
Supposedly the DS2 fork of the engine had been heavily modified vs DS1, but that version was abandoned in favour of the Bloodborne fork which was developed at about the same time.
I play it on my Alienware toaster. It's such a wonderful machine.
@@andyasbestos dantelion2 and katana(the Ds2 fork) are basically separate engines, since the engine itself seems to have been significantly modified, or even rewritten. It exhibits fundamentally different behavior around saving, character control, scripting, map layouts, ect. Whether it counts as a Dantelion game or not is subjective but most souls modders say it is distinct enough to warrant its own designation.
Yeah because ds2 looks like ass
Makes sense, bad games can be easier to run
I have zero issues with devs reusing engines/assets.
As long as the game works properly and looks/plays like a genuine evolution of the systems used.
I'm even pro reusing assets! EDF just wouldn't hit the same without massive black ants as your first enemy to encounter in every single game!
Yeah but they don't
Except Ubisoft
RGG(like a dragon) studios reuse assets a lot and there's absolutely no problem with that
i have issues, demon souls remake is example, how beautiful it could be with new engine (lightning etc, physics too!)
You can tell who watched the video before commenting
You can also tell who has trash PCs and lacks common sense to make a game run.
@@CrunchyTireyeah fromsoft Am I right?
@@CrunchyTireobviously consoles are struggling but idk wtf people are talking about on pc, my garbage pc from like 2015 runs every game up to before elden ring butter smooth on practically max settings
@@ioverslept.Even my half dead PS4 that I've had for like 6 fucking years is fine. If you have EVER cleaned your damn console (Ya know like someone with any braincells should) then it should be fine.
@ioverslept. Theres no performance problems on PC. But what bothers me is the game being locked to 60fps when my top end pc could run it much better. It is possible by mods tho
And this is what critiques should be like. Because this gives genuely very helpful feedback on what Fromsoft should improve, and very few people would disagree with unless very weird people that genuely things that the game essence relies on this kind of things.
That, and things that could be improved, like items descriptions that tells us their exact stats, the lack of a pause button, the minor input delay on rolling, the sometimes unexplicative tutorials, between other things.
If they removed an staple of old Souls like Runbacks because they were more annoying than interesting for the most part, I don't see why they wouldn't improve over this as well.
Runbacks made sense in older games where the difficulty was mostly in the levels. Starting from DS3, they started focusing much more heavily on the bosses, so it stopped making sense.
@@lonelyshpee7873 Even back then , they were runbacks that just were plain annoying with little to no substance like DS1 and DS2 final bosses, BoC, Kalameeth, Queelag, between others. And sometimes we got completely overwhelming runbacks like Smelter Demon Duo, Lud and Zallen or Sir Alonne. It was a very mixed bag.
@@JoseViktor4099 Fair point. Honeslty, I'm glad they're mostly gone.
Souls games have never had a pause button ever bro, that’s what gives it that edge of your seat and in world experience. If you could back away from it at any point then the immersion is gone if you know you can pause it at any point. Item descriptions and stats are fine, you just gotta actually look at them and your player status sometimes as well. The delay might just even be your controller or whatever you’re using fault on that end. Tutorials? Which tutorials? Idk any of the games that had a tutorial that breaks in outta nowhere like Doom Eternal in the middle of your playthrough. Hence why you can turn them off. There’s an options menu you know.
@@maxingout6124 Nothing is more unimmersive that being forced to loose just because you have a call to attend and cant even pause the game. At least for me.
Item descriptions are very vague as well. Is not the same the "Two handling weapon gives a 20% power increase" than "Enhances attacks with two-handed weapons." Sometimes I feel forced to look up a wiki.
The roll delay is a genuine problem. In fact, is proved that is about 166 ms delay. Maybe you dont feel it, I didn´t felt it until my RL1 run when that could me somewhat annoying.
Someting like Doom Eternal maybe not, but I can´t see why doing something such as Armored Core 6 that is clean, optional and nont very intrusive.
Thats my opinion.
I worked in gamedev for several years. The goal is usually: Good enough. The game will sell either way, they don't want to put resources into further optimization. I'm sure the engine supports frustom and occlusion culling, LODs, mipmaps, compression etc. Like most engines. Also using an old engine and upgrading it along the way is not the issue imo. Most game engines today could be traced back to quake. Look at the new Dooms for example, great graphics and great performance, and the original(idTech 1) engine was made in 1995. Ofc it was modernized and rewritten several times, just like most engines. Developing an engine from scratch takes years. Then the staff has to learn the new engine. Lot of time and money, companies don't want that.
I dug into Elden ring's files and they aren't using that high of a polycount or texture resolution either. I agree with you that something is fishy but I'm not sure what is. Could simply be badly written code and the visuals has nothing to do with it. When I'll get a Nvidia card I'll look into the game with Nsight and check what could be the problem if it's something visual.
The Rhadan fight fps drop for example was quad overdraw, I'm 90% sure. Layering maybe hundreds of transparent effect on each other, meaning the GPU has to compute those pixels hundreds of times.
Also it's not really useful to compare different consoles and especially console generations. Even with simila performance on paper , the underlying software and hardware could allocate it differently. Entirely depends on the software and how the developer utilizes it.
I'm not a Dev, but I know that having a functioning proprietary engine is a blessing, because you don't have to share your earnings with anyone other than the distributor and parent company. I think FROM only owes money to FMOD for the audio side of things, maybe Havok for the physics, and that's it. If I'm not mistaken, 30% of the earnings from videgoames made with Unreal go to Epic. This means that of the billion earned with Elden Ring (it's around that number anyway), 300 million would have gone to Epic. That's insane if you think about it: they just got to keep 300 millions, something a lot of developers have to say goodbye to.
At the same time, proprietary engines are a lot of work, or so it looks like. Some games were broken by bad engines (or bad engines for the game in question). I think of Bioware with Frostbite. Even CDPR had issues with their own engine, and it looks like they're going to use Unreal for the time being. They must have had a very good reason to willingly part ways with a huge chunk of their earnings, they certainly didn't make that choice lightly.
@@personaignota CDPR didn't have "issues with their own engine". They had tons of good people leave their company over the last decade because of mismanagement, too much crunch etc. and they are switching to a common engine, because they have to hire new people which is much easier when they use a "commonly known" engine. Oh, and of course "hire and fire" will be also easier in the future for them if they stick to Unreal.
You're not wrong. As I say with anything in life: if there are no consequences, there's no need to change your behavior. If a half-assed game still makes millions, why would they bother?
@@prima_ballerina There was another comment before that, for some reason youtube decided to eat it up. I can see it, but it doesn't appear to anyone. This is what I wrote before:
I'm not a Dev, but I know that having a functioning proprietary engine is a blessing, because you don't have to share your earnings with anyone other than the distributor and parent company. I think FROM only owes money to FMOD for the audio side of things, maybe Havok for the physics, and that's it. 5% of the earnings from videgames made with Unreal go to Epic. This means that of the billion earned with Elden Ring (it's around that number anyway), 50 million would have gone to Epic. That's insane if you think about it: they just got to keep 50 millions in revenue simply by using a proprietary engine.
1. The zoom out lack in big boss fights
They did it with Sekiro, so i don't understand why not with Elden Ring.
How they do it? Like in fg fight if the do it you look like a dot on screen @Dartokenove
@@Dartokenovefrom soft has a funny history with running into problems, solving them in the next game, then forgetting the solution for the game after that.
I hated Ancient Dragon fights in ER because of this
i@@سورنامهرابی-ف8ش Sekiro handled it really well, zooming out whenever the attack was out of sight because it was above you and then zooming in. Besides, being a dot on screen is still better than getting hitted by something you cant see cuz the body itselfs of the boss dont allow you to. Its simply unfair being forced to chose between hitting the enemy or evade it.
The technical side in general is the biggest problem with their games. From the performance issues, huge loading times (especially in DeS and BB), the awful PC port of DS 1, almost no proper anti-cheat until Elden Ring, to the messy netcode, which even allowed remote code execution for years.
Don't forget about hitboxes
@@H4VOK_YT You cant talk about that. Fans will lie and say they are fine ( they are not )
@@lilpain1997 i think its commonly known that soulsborne hitboxes suck
I have no problem with elden ring or any souls game until now are sure its not your hardware thats messing things up
@@Yusa25 oh no... Its already started... The fans who think its everyone else's problem. You do realise this is all replicable despite hardware right??? If it wasnt Digital foundrys analysis would be useless on the subject.
As someone who had the horror of witnessing sote launch promised consort, that second phase was just abysmal, I could hardly avoid any of his attacks because the frames slowed just enough to completely fuck over my roll timing
I haven’t preordered anything since Watchdogs 1 and Destiny 1. Those two were mostly game-based in that I didn’t enjoy them. Nowadays I could either pay full price to be a beta tester, or wait and pay 40% off for a patched game. For as much as I love Elden Ring, it is no exception.
I still haven’t played SOTE, no thanks to my lost vanilla save, but also because I expected some bs was gonna get patched. So I took a break until the product is finished.
@@JoaoPedro-sb5sq Oh it did get patched my friend, especially his unfair frame trap. Now it's enjoyable and I didn't notice any performance issues, so... you can safely buy it if you want to.
R u talking about pre-nerf Radahn or the Radahn version with the shit arena lighting? Cos the latter version is the review copy version.
As a real big Souls addict, one thing I’ve noticed about their fantasy games is they’ve been essentially telling the same story for like 13 years. When you peel back the lore it’s about a fallen order of royals or deities being usurped from all directions and there’s usually a feminine boy or rebis like Marika or Gwyndolin who’s behind it. Mix in some dragons and eldritch aesthetic with a poorly understood curse or affliction and there you go.
Now to preface, I love that stuff. I’m addicted to it. And because the story is told in such an unconventional way most barely even notice. I mean I didn’t until Elden Ring came out.
That being said, I think they need a new source of inspiration. There’s only so many times you can repurpose Berserk and occult imagery before people start getting bored of it. Some people already are. I’m not one of them but given how widespread Elden Ring was, I do hope they go for a different vibe.
And again, this is coming from a big dark souls fan and dark fantasy addict.
I have also noticed the similarity in these two worlds. However, despite this, there are many differences so that it does not feel that way. I also think this is the case with many if not most things in this world. There will always be similarities between books, movies, games, music, paintings, cars, whatever, etc.
My beloved 2002 game tells the story of a hero chosen by the gods to save the world from dragons and evil. It couldn't be any more classic, but the execution of this game makes it enjoyable. While playing, I don't feel that it is an unoriginal, recreational work. The game is not original but in a general sense, but I don't feel that because I haven't played all the games of the world.
technically, this is the story they been telling with kings field too so something going on for 3 decades straight.
however, the vibe of kings field and shadow tower are alot more melancholic & lonely than the actiony apocalyptic stuff that souls games have now.
@@vj7248 That is true. Vibe and atmosphere counts for a lot and that can really alter the mood and execution of a story. I do like how even though FromSoftware uses similar tropes through their stories they still know how to make it seem fresh in every iteration. That takes talent and work.
@@NocnaGlizda That is true. When you get down to it most fantasy games have a similar story on paper but it all depends on the execution. FromSoftware really know how to make each game feel relatively fresh, a remarkable feat, especially given how many of the artists and creators have been behind this franchise for a long time.
You probably haven't played ds2
I remember hearing from someone (I think it was jacksepticeye) about running the PS4 version on the PS5, but never really understood why, until this video. Tbh I was guessing that this video was going to be about the difficulty or something, because I’ve seen that song and dance before with similar titled videos, but now having seen this in full, this is a problem that should be addressed, because we’ve seen that same problem and how far it can go with Bethesda. I would hate to see Fromsoft be limited by their engine, and would be happy to see them take a good 3-5 years transferring their assets to an updated engine. Elden Ring has become one of my favorite games, and I have Fromsoft to thank for that, I don’t want to see this be their peak.
not a GPU issues.
more like a bottleneck in CPU parallism and thread optimization issues.
the most common thing that kills fromsoft engine performance are bullet arts.
That's why scrubs on PC crash your game with bullet art spam. So it's an engine physics and pipeline issue 🙄
Actually may be. I get the same stutters in maximal settings/minimal settings.
None of the settings except SSAO and Raytracing has real impact on the performance. (Disabling e-cores in the bios helps with the frequency of the stutters, but doesnt get rid of them.. theres no real workaround, even in offline mode without the steam EAC shovelware running in the background its not a steady 60..)
So few people seem to grasp this. You can boot up ER on PC right now and cast night maiden's mist anywhere you want, at any resolution, and the game will show extreme difficulty maintaining 60fps across hardware ranges, while still maintaining better performance on PS5 - this should raise a lot of eyebrows. This is clearly CPU shenanigans of some kind.
Most of the engine issue are cpu related, just like dragons dogma the cpu optimization is terrible and unlike gpu bottleneck this can't be fixed by reducing graphics, it needs either an overhaul to the way the engine works or deleting assets from the game that causes the issue and both are more difficult to fix than gpu issues and unlikely to implement
Cpu problems seems to be a common thing with Japanese games especially large open world
Yep 100%. It's maybe a hot take, but I think minimizing these CPU bound assets in areas where they cause problems is probably the main way forward.
imo a good example of this was the monkey swarm in Sekiro. That would have probably crashed a PS4 if they tried to do it the normal way. Instead what they did was just make the AI and animations of those specific monkey enemies in that one spot only update at 15fps lol. So it looked a bit crap, it was visibly choppy, but the upside was the framerate of the game itself remained more consistent. Instead of getting a sudden and massive inputy delay spike combined with choppiness spanning the entire image, only the enemies themselves looked choppy whilst everything else ran at normal speed.
Adapting the engine to make it more performant in those scenes is also worth doing (and I'm sure they have been doing that with every game), but I'm not sure how far they can go with that. I definitely don't think moving to another engine entirely is likely to be the right call, because I really can't think of a single example off the top of my head where that has even been done let alone worked. Not to mention most third party engines have their own issues.
They need to learn how to effectively multithread.
This is most likely why even my mid range pc can handle max settings at 60 fps most of the time and consoles cannot
main reason I preordered the PS5 pro
@@allanupton881 except it will change nothing most likely, the pro doesn't improve much when it comes to cpu it's mostly a gpu upgrade
I don't think FROMSOFTWARE needs to update the Havoc engine but more or less update it rather than switching to other game engines
couldn't care less if they ever switched engines. they have perfected the weight and feel of these games. no souls-like has been able to capture it. i agree, improving makes sense. seems like everyones going the Unreal Engine route and these games just becoming way too sterile.
@@Darksoulsboy69 I agree with you there not only that unreal enegine has a few issues to from what I've encountered
Ue is trash, every game is looking like custom Fortnite gamemode and runs like sh*t I much more prefere games with their custom engine because they feel unique and not like a new coat of paint with a different name on it.
It’s been updated for the last 10+ yrs. It’s the same engine used in DS1 only heavily tweaked and updated every release. They absolutely need to change game engines.
@@Darksoulsboy69 don't put your subjective opinion across as objective, please. A prime example of a developer nailing literally every aspect is Neowiz with Lies of P. I get a locked 120FPS and native ultrawide support at max settings on the 1.0 release. You can't say that the engine fromsoft use is the life and soul when it is perfectly achievable on other engines, that's just categorically false.
What annoys me is fanboys. You cant criticize elden ring without getting jumped it feels like
Give people a good critique and they will not jump you.
@@endth1s10 they absolutely will tho, i think you mean give an objectively unbiased critique, which, even in that regard, people will still seek out any negative aspect of your opinions
@@illgeteverythingback well, fuck them then.
Don’t even waste your time and move on.
@@endth1s10Souls games have terrible balancing. I'm all for adjusting difficulty through imbalanced equipment, but Fromsoft makes it way too easy to trivialize their games. This sucks when players just blitz through the game only to never touch it again when they're done with it. This especially sucks when they bring their "touch once and never again" mentality towards equipment, because if certain weapons/spells are unusable after their first adjustments, they're not getting fixed anymore. Just wasted assets.
I still get jumped whenever I make that criticism...
You say that like it's only Elden ring
Armored Core 6 shows the engine can run well.
I am still so perplexed as to how they release AC6 with ultrawide and 120FPS on PC (buttery smooth) but never introduce the same thing to ER. they could have easily patched that in when doing the DLC 😪
No it doesn’t. AC6 on PS5 runs at less than 60fps. AC6 on PS5 playing the PS4 version is locked at 60fps with a noticeable dip in resolution. So no, it doesn’t show the engine can run well.
I like the educated critique. True journalist mentality and im about it. Huge souls fan but i can totally understand where people talk about performance. I personally enjoy the gameplay loop of souls games. Thats what keeps me coming back at the end of the day, while there are games that definitely look better, i think nothing plays better than a souls game.Fromsoft could literally do it in a game with stick figure characters and id still pay the 70 bucks 😂
I couldn't agree more. I haven't played much of ER but in my current BB runs I have definitely been feeling the poor optimization issues. As someone who really likes BB when dealing with flickering, input drops, or magical getting hit when not near the attack(this is rare but it does happen) it can ruin the moment. I know when bb gets fully emulated this will be fixed but sad to hear that it's still an issue. Personally I think it's the publishers rushing the developers and not letting Fromsoft take their time. Because as diligent as Miyazaki is I'am pretty sure he wouldn't release the game until the performance was fully optimized
lol, so you played the one game locked on PS4 specs running at 30fps and determined the engine is bad. OK.... Bloodborne is literally the worst running souls game now for that reason.
@@CrunchyTireit has nothing to do with 30fps it has to do with frame pacing which BB suffers from. This is a well known issue with the game. I would recommend you do more research before commenting
@@AccainGaming i agree i played BB to, maybe i a dare to say a veteran, really is the least optimized game of the series
A real criticism of the souls genre which isn’t entirely subjective
It’s really refreshing in a world of entitled content creators. Seen that for basically every multimedia series
Majority of criticism is subjective, no? Nothing wrong with that in my opinion
@@primary_magic1227 Yes, basically all criticism is subjective and it's silly to expect otherwise. That's basically like saying you're only allowed to state facts. E.g. "The game sometimes drops from 60 to 40 FPS". But you can't say "that's a big/bad drop" because guess what, that's subjective.
@@primary_magic1227 Every criticism is subjective. If Scorsese would criticize a movie that jsut came out, that is still subjective. Because that is based on his view point of what makes a "good" film.
all criticism is subjective, only because people dont think like you doesnt mean their critic is bad, biased or unvaluable. Jesus elitist like you is why this fandom sucks ass.
Each game pretty much just tells a variation of the same story, like a theatre where the same actor always plays a different character but with a similiar role
That's why AC and Sekiro are more interesting.
I’ve honestly never really experienced performance issues with a FromSoft game, unless you count Bloodborne being capped at 30fps as a “performance issue”. But I appreciate that everyone has different results and I think this was a solid critique video
Maybe if you play them on decent pc....if you're on console,you must feel it. No way you won't notice it. Not just frame drops but also terrible frame pacing.
@@ghostofwar5430 I play on a PS5 and honestly I just never notice it.
I assume you've never played original Dark Souls on a X360 or PS3
Miyazaki on his way to add another attack to the 16 hit combo string sub vatiaton c instead of fixing the engine after a decade of complaints
Yup, totally agree. But I just hope they don’t switch to UE5 that’d be even worse to me tbh because I like it when there is variety to game engines. ID tech engine is really good, can’t wait to see their new improved version in Doom The Dark Ages. Though new engine is a really hard thing to do I think since devs will need to learn it from the scratch. Not a dev so idk.
Unreal Engine is the industry standard. If they did switch to it, development would become easier everyone knows how to use it. Fromsoft can't optimize their games so the switch to UE will do nothing.
@@Legion849it is not that easy. Switching engines means all assets, knowledge, and tools have to be built from scratch, and that takes years on top of UE5 still having notable issues like shader compression.
I guess I just don't mind the tech and performance stuff so much. The art direction is what I'm there for
Ahh yes, the super mario mountains and the beaches with cliffs on the end really immerse me in the atmosphere because the sky is red
@@greekcomenterperson446 ???
@@JoshBurcham104 its probably someone who sucked at the game and died in caleid lmao.
@@gaurav_W impossible to think that someone cant like the art direction right
@@greekcomenterperson446 yes its possible. then what kind of games do you think have good art direction?
The biggest problem is that Bloodborne hasn’t gotten a remake and that’s Sonys fault
Flipping back and forth between console and pc gaming in the last half a year or so has taught me something: unless the frame rate drop is so egregious you might as well be walking through molasses, it’s entirely negligible about 90-95% of the time. Folks are out here talking like Bloodborne played in stop-motion most the time when that just isn’t the case either on the ps4 or ps5.
the answer is that jsut dont be so damn obsessed with fps, ive played every title across 3 consoles and never once did i stop playing and cut my flow just to complain about an fps dip
could just be me, but I never noticed the frame rate when playing on PS5. It could just be the game itself or me being oblivious, but I never had a thought about the frame rate dipping except for when I loaded into Cerulean Coast on day 2 of the DLC dropping. The frames were in the single digits for a second before stabilizing. But that just goes to show how great of a game it is when I never notice it running on 40-50fps and always thought it was at 60
Bad optimization is just a call back to Kings field with its 16fps rate.
Really hope From was working on other things concurrent with AC6 and SotE, and that whatever it is gets announced at the game awards
The next game was apparently leaked and supposedly will be called Spellbound. Magic game, so we’ll see how that goes
@@maxingout6124 there's definitely potential especially if it's more in line with sekiro with the movement, structure, and storyline
@@maxingout6124 that leak turned out to be fake
@@maxingout6124 That sounds super lame for a Fromsoft game
@@TechJacket-rz6il Yeah, I’m more of a melee type of Souls player, never really cared for using magic tbh
the problem is that they all play the same, look the same, and are all slow paced , with janky unresponsive animations deeply ingrained in the game design, they need you to commit to what you do and pay the risks.
I wish I had an unforgiving difficult game but more action focused, where combat has room for movement mechanics and techs that favour dexterity and faster paced gameplay.
No, Im not shitting on from software, it is a top tier developer and deserves its praise
Platforming, bullet hell and musical genre always pay for player skill and reflex.
People really do give Fromsoft too much of a pass on the performance of their games. Their is geuinely no excuse for such consistently poor optimisation from such a successful studio. Every review and every player needs to call them out on this constantly, whether they buy or like the games or not. Good games and good performance are not mutually exclusive.
I’m pretty sure just about every big “souls TH-camr “ has mentioned the poor performance at one point or another …
Almost all their games work perfectly fine with a device without an external gpu. Hell I just need an integrated graphic card to run it just fine
i get what you mean, but the reason me and a lot of others dont call it out is simply bc we dont have the issues. the only time i ever experienced performance issues in a souls game (ive played them all except sekiro) was when fighting consort radahn, and they fixed that with the latest patch
@@jeniks1_ You can't just gaslight people into saying the issues do not exist. They definitively, objectively do.
On the other hand, not being bothered with it and being okay with it is a perfectly acceptable opinion.
@@Saffreuge when and where did i gaslight ppl into saying the issues didnt exist? im saying the reason more people dont talk about it me included is because we dont have those issues, that as well is objective
You summarized it perfectly: “I and everyone else will buy it anyway”.
The reason why FromSoftware games keep releasing with performance issues at launch, is because the people buying them choose to tolerate such issues. They don’t put in more effort because they’re not being pressured into doing so.
As much as we like to rag on “broken and buggy games”, I think the truth is that the general gaming community doesn’t actually despise broken and buggy games as much they claim to. Cyberpunk was considered a historic moment in this regard, yet so many people were willing to forgive it due to how much they enjoyed the experience of the story and the gameplay.
So long as players are able find enjoyment in playing the game, nothing else really matters to them. We could sit here and talk about how detrimental of an attitude towards the gaming industry that is, but that’s just how most people feel.
This is not only the best critique of a souls game I have seen, it's also very important and true! Awesome job!
Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed it.
I think its a mistake to claim the issue comes from the engine. With Lance's ps4 patch you can play bloodborne with fixed frame pacing, its hugely a developer issue.
My main issue about souls games is that they caused so much damage to other third person/hack and slash games or any game with a Perry mechanic to the point that any new game that comes out are cursed to forever be labeled as a souls like despite not playing anything like souls games
my problem with them is that they take the enjoyment of other games. yeah, they are that good
Bethesda Game Studios has similar issues. Mainly bugs and glitches. Fallout and Elder Scrolls (single player games) use the same engine.
I had this thought floating around in my head. Every time I see the death chamber, the lack of jump mechanics, the inability to do some in-game things like dousing a burial blade with electricity.
Just thought id chime in that elden ring on ps4 has been reported by numerous users to cause crashes and data corruption on the console, its happened for me and i found sveral reddit posts with the same issue often citing that sony support said the error code recieved on crash simply didnt exist.
And you didn't even enter the territory of how their engine is limited in terms of basic RPG elements like insistent NPCs routines and junky quest progression. These are two aspects I personally hope they get better on their next games.
you should try out Armored Core 6, it being 'linear' definitely allowed them to optimize better. allowing it to look and run way better than Elden Ring.
It's in my backlog, I definitely want to play it!
@@major_trenton The story is fun and fresh too! But also stays true to the fromsoft style we all know.
I've seen it said elsewhere that FromSoft with Elden Ring is where Bethesda was with Skyrim. Both were games that soled widely beyond expectations, but both are where their respective engines are really starting to show their age. We saw how Bethesda failed to heed the warning and fell from grace, let's hope FromSoft doesn't repeat the same mistakes
Well, Bethesda’s fall-off wasn’t solely because of the engine (but because they made a few great games for their time, can’t replicate the success now, and rely solely upon re-releases to stay relevant), and I don’t see Fromsoft repeating the same issue at least as far as the games themselves, but I do think they will have to modernize some internal stuff at some point.
For me personally, I can’t tell a difference after about 35-40 fps. All those years of fallout new Vegas slideshow on ps3 ruined my eye for this kind of thing. My laptop can run things at 100+ fps and I can’t really distinguish it from my ps5
0:51 Armored Core came after Elden Ring...
... and you're not talking about how good Sekiro and Fires of Rubicon actually run across the board.
I thought you were about to mention how every theme/silhouette/level design and character archetypes are recycled in every from soft game. Even reused assets. It can either serve to give a comfy familiarity (like the American horror story anthology) or serve to be redundant and seem lackluster in imagination. But seeing carian manor look alikes used in every from soft game, seeing characters with the same armor silhouettes, and the reused enemy models with slight variation…. It gets a little eye-roll inducing.
They did very heavy dark souls 3 assest reuse in elden ring bruh😢
Nearly every developer and company reuses assets, and asset reuse is a notable reason why their catalogue has has consistent releases for the past decade, sane with RGG and the Like a Dragon/Yakuza games. Without it, these games would take years and absurd amounts of budget to make, as well as cause more problems, something ex-BioWare devs for example noted when they switched from Unreal to Frostbite and had to remake everything. And nearly every developer will campaign for asset reuse cause it makes development smoother and easier
@@charlestonobryant807 there, to me, is an amount of asset and theme reuse that is reasonable. Theirs is very obvious and in every game. Every time I see those astronomers globes in the copy and paste study/academy sections in from soft games, my eyes roll so hard. I think they get too many passes to where they have done little to evolve much as developers. And I think Miyazaki has hinted at that when addressing his limitations in making the elden ring DLC because it was limited mechanically to the structure of the base game. And how he is moving in a new direction in his future projects. Fromsoft has been stunted by its own ass-kissing community of fans, but now that it’s getting more wide spread accolades, I think they are headed in a better direction. If what Miyazaki said means what I think it does
I mean how many times do you just refer thematically to the dark souls trilogy when making lore comparisons to bloodborne or elden ring? Because it’s all the same thing with different aesthetics - kind of
@@Haydentrudyjonescan’t wait for yet another fantasy rpg with EVILLLL gods and the world is in a cycle perpetuated by the EVILLLL gods and you gotta kill the EVILLL gods and take their place 🙄 and all the challenges are pressing B at the right time because FromSoft fans hate when the challenge is anything other than another Artorias clone. And there’s also Berserk references yet again
I literally never had any perfomance issues lol. Never heard of it before. No problem on Pc. Best optimisation of all games i played ngl
The engine is definitely an issue but changing it most likely won't fix the problem, it's fromsoftware inability to optimize their games that is the biggest issue, as you mentioned the radahn had terrible fps drop and fromsoftware finally fixed it except it took nearly 3 months after release to do that which makes no sense, it's either they didn't even know that the issue exist or they didn't know how to fix it until recently and I think it's the latter,
There are examples of very old engines that are super advanced, Rockstar rage engine is the best example, I think it deputed back in 2006, it Had terrible performance issues especially with gta 4 and yet Rockstar managed to improve it to the point most new games can't compete with rdr2 a 6 year old game or even gta 5 a 11 year old game
So it's 80% fromsoftware fault, in a way they are just like Bethesda
As someone who's played every souls game - from the original Demon Souls for the PS3 - I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yes, there is a problem with From Software's engine.
The problem with From Software's engine reminds me of how some people complain about Bethesda's engine.
Don't worry, everyone, I wouldn't imply that From Software's games are buggy. What I'm trying to say is: I do not wish for From Software to go down the same path as Bethesda, never.
What I'm trying to say is, that repeatedly using the same engine is something symptomatic of something bad that is to come ...if that small problem isn't resolved quickly. Otherwise, that small problem can snowball into something big and bad ...sort of like how things look like for Bethesda, Ubisoft and EA.
Hope this video blows up. Not because from will change anything but because I'm tired of people complaining about stupid stuff when it comes to from games. Let's start talking about the actual problems like mentioned in this video please
Thank you!
Yea the Mona Lisa could be a better shade of color
I think a massive show of this issue is bloodborne being made on this engine has made it so hard to emulate that only now are we truly starting to see emulation
Not to mention this engine, along with their netcode, makes an insufferable pvp experience. Every souls release they nerf Bleed in PvP because people abuse ghost hitboxes that apply status effect even when rolling. NPCs never do this.
Not to mention their equipload mechanic is outdated and poorly designed. You can hard-swap items from your inventory, bypassing having equipment slots and defeating the purpose of equip load outside of heavy armor. Also, the poise system is so unintuituve and opaque, people have no clue what it does unless they look at the code. They need to redesign their core engine and mechanics thay have been severely neglected since Demon's Souls. We can only tolerate so much jank. We don't need another Starfield situation in the future. Im sure Fromsoft can do it, given how amazing and polished Sekiro was. They should really look towards the modding community for inspiration, because the Elden Ring Reforged mod addresses a ton of issues with base souls mechanics (such as backstep being useless outside of DaS2). It makes me appreciate DaS2 now because they experimented with the formula to make improvements.
From Software changed the engine almost (or maybe literally) half dozen of times.
Therefore, it is not possible to generalize and talk about as a whole...
Dark Souls 1 engine is different
Dark Souls 2 engine is different
Dark Souls 3 engine is different
So... How do you talk about as "the issue with the engine"?... 🤔
What do you mean Armored Core 6 and Bloodborne run on the same engine?
Different versions of the same engine. Bloodborne (and DS III) was made on an earlier version than that of AC6.
My biggest problem is I can never experience them for the first time again, and read all the entries, and watch all the lore videos on them again, truly cursed with knowledge of my favourite Games ever
The biggest problem is their community and how toxic they are and the vile things they say when you say souls games are bad
I cannot blame them for smacking you when you say such a stupid thing.
You can just play the game without even bother to engage with the community. Because yes, it's the worst community in gaming.
@@alphaomega1580 case and point
@@alphaomega1580 people say stupid things like that and then get offended when someone calls them an idiot 😂😂😂
it's predominately played solo... you literally dont have to engage with a "community"... this isnt a COD lobby.
I will say, armored cord 6 runs on the same engine, and it runs very well. Stable 120 fps actually being attainable
Doesn't armored core 6 share the same engine as in sekiro and elden ring yet it could do 120fps, ultra widescreen, hdr, ray tracing without any lag or major issue?
"If you're here about the hitboxes or netcode your the third guy this week."
My problem with Elden Ring is that it is too good, it has heightened my expectations and dampened my enjoyment of other games.
Same here lol, I’ve started playing the previous souls games(I started with Elden Ring) then I had to find some other souls likes or games that are equally good like nine sols and hollow knight, now it’s really hard to find games I really like
So you also need to take into consideration that videogames have also taken a nosedive recently when it comes to being well... Actually good...
DEI and Woke Agendas and companies have made most games suffer aside from the few that kicked all that to the curb.
Using Elden Ring as a standard for today's new games is like comparing gold to sewage. Aside from the handful of good games.
What I really want to see someday is a Fromsoft game with the usual gameplay, but set it in a setting at the height of an age. All the DS games+ER and maybe bloodborne are all set in that mould setting, the post-post-apocalypse world. Considering that heroes existed in all of those high times in the previous games, I'm sure that they wouldn't have too much of a problem writing a game around those ages of a setting.
Imagine how different a Fromsoft game would be if you walked through a city and actually saw normal people for once in a place that was in pristine condition and not just ruins. It'd feel so much different from the other games (doesn't mean I don't like the mould setting).
But, having a bunch of NPCs would definitely tank the current engine, lol
Nothing more frustrating than dying during boss fights to framedrop.
I said it when elden ring came out that this engine is being pushed to its limits and either needs a total overhaul or a new engine
this and the camera, god it's bad, when you face gigantic enemies and the camera doesn't zoom out or clips in walls alot. after playing games such as nioh 2 and black myth it kinda sucks alot, even if it's better in ER, it's far from good
Also from a challenge runner's perspective there are annoying issues like the "hockey stop" which has been a problem since DS1 and it's still present in Elden Ring. Like these things can literally ruin your no-hit run.
going to turn into Bethesda
Bruh. This is the most classic yt thing ever. A mf with 7k subs out here showing people making a video that should have millions of views. Blow this shit up.
so DS2 had another engine ? that's why it feels so different
no it wasnt
One point I would make on the engine side of things is that it appears to be more of a CPU optimization issue, rather than GPU, so the game's graphical fidelity and resolution is often less relevant that it might seem. You can see this with hardware monitoring software on PC by turning on the stats for every CPU thread. You have to turn all of them on, i.e. CPU 0, CPU 1, CPU 2 , CPU 3 etc. etc.
When a lot of people do this they're often only displaying the total usage, which will pretty much always show a low usage % outside of loading screens in Elden Ring and the other Souls games, leading people to believe that it must be a GPU bottleneck instead. This is usually exacerbated by the fact that they're not correctly tracking their GPU usage either, but I digress lol. The total usage stat is just an average of the individual thread usage, so it's not a very useful CPU stat to track in most cases.
What these games are doing, in the more CPU intensive scenes (e.g. dragon breath attacks and cannon mausoleum in Elden Ring), is placing the bulk of the work on only one or two CPU threads. So you might have a 16 thread CPU showing < 30% total usage, but what's actually happening is the game is completely maxing out a single thread (it will probably only show 80-95% on the software), and that is what is tanking your frame rate.
I'm certainly no expert on game engines, but I assume it probably is a mixture of "bad engine" and optimization. For whatever reason, a lot of visual effects in these games that seem like they would be more GPU related are actually being processed by the CPU. I haven't tested the old version of that Radahn fight from the DLC, but I would not be surprised at all if it's the same deal there. And obviously the developers are not doing this frivolously, there will be a legitimate reason they're doing it this way.
Personally though I find myself in the "they should just stick with this engine and work around the limitations" boat. Because I'm not sure there even are better alternatives. If they did what most other devs are doing nowadays, and switched to Unreal for their next game, likely all that would happen is the GPU requirements would double and the game would still stutter anyway.
Thank you for the explanation!
There was an issue early on in ER's life where the graphics card was not even used and naturally created a lot of problems, performance is also specifically mentioned in 9 of the 23 total patches. I think the primary issue is making it open world because simply put there's a whole lot of stuff that needs to be rendered at any given time, AC6 basically has no issues with performance despite it having a lot more going on at any given time. I think the only time DS3 chugs is when there's a lot of fire at once like occasionally on embering or a few other occasions(honestly other than embering I can't recall any off-hand but I haven't played actively in quite a while) though tbh a lot of their games seem to dislike fire like the Old Lord's bosses in Bloodborne chug hard anytime fire happens so that's interesting
Bloodborne is Perfect 👌
still waiting on that PC port tho smh -_-
@@blue_axiom yeap
Preach it's definitely the best one of the bunch
Sony doesn't agree with you
Sekiro is my first Frommsoft game and honestly I think it’s the best game I’ve ever played. I tried Bloodborne and I didn’t have the patience to even make it out of the graveyard. Once I’m done with Elden Ring I’ll give Demon Souls another try because I definitely wasn’t enjoying myself the first time and I’m hoping the skill translates
AC6 is a prime example of what they can do for optimisation for the engine. I do agree that it might be time for the havoc engine to hang up it's dancing shoes but I'd honestly just be happy if we got more games like AC6 that have 120fps, native ultrawide support and good optimisation out the gate. I personally LOVE the graphical style of the havoc engine but the performance is just abysmal in some instances.
What is AC 6? None of them are numbered after Black Flag and there are 13 with a 14th on the way, (technically there’s Liberation but who cares about that)
Edit: You’re talking about Armored Core 6 ooooooohhhhhhhh, sorry
The engine problem is one that affected me on a subjective level while playing Elden Ring: same old reused animations for almost anything, leading to a character playing character moving at dark souls speed while the enemies play at bloodborne/Sekiro speed. It was specially annoying while reposting and healing.
Great vid!
Not a problem get good and find the timing this is not a real problem your just not that good because good players don't complain about such a thing.
@@Re-Bourne good players DO complain about that actually. The only ones who dont are fanboys who think fromsoft can do no wrong.
Elden ring bosses are mostly still really really good, especially when it starts to click, but if fromsoft pushes the speed of bosses any further they'll be bad. Most bosses are at the LIMIT of what the standard moveset can even handle (aka, bosses track so heavily and attack for so long, that any longer and we would start seeing more and more "frame trap" attacks).
Elden ring needs to be the final crescendo, if it gets any faster in their next soulslike without any major reworking of player movement, it wont be fun and challenging anymore, itll just be absurd and frustrating. The cracks are showing, and THATS what people are pointing out.
@@RowsieFox don't bother, he's just trolling.
I would say that this is a very subjective matter with shit coming from both sides; Rather you are a casual not wanting to learn, or a fanboy that wont listen to criticism.
Personally is a take I like it, because ER have an insane combat expression that allows these bosses to the beaten on multiple ways without feeling too underwhelming. The main point I see isn´t about speed more that is about variety, and the sheer amount options, even by base moveset standarts you can do to deal against the bosses.
In fact, is when these bosses removes this combat expression when they get bad (PCR Pre-Nerf) . But I can see the flipside on bosses that gets extremely underwhelming because they just can´t defend well , despite considering a "DS Boss" (Midra).
Personally overall, these bosses are my favorite on a mechanic standpoint, and my criticism goes to more QoL take on some stuff. I didn´t felt that bosses that has Sekiro moveset because I seen and fought Sekiro bosses via mods, and trust me, the experience there is nothing like an ER boss.
Elden Ring doesn't use the same player animations as DS3, if that's what you mean. They're completely redone, and indeed slightly faster. If you go back to DS3 you'll immediately feel the difference, it feels like you're moving through mud compared to Elden Ring.
Finally, a critique that is an actual good take. Not dising on the games because you hate them, but trying to make them better.
DS3 has a memory leak on PC that was never fixed which is one of the main causes for the fps studders. Not sure how smooth the console version runs. ER runs perfect on my pc as I've never had any issues but I know a lot of ppl did have studder and freeze issues.
Fightincowyboy's walk thru of ER DLC you can see just how bad the performance was and from my research it was tied to a core scheduling issue in windows for ppl on AMD cpu's.
Not taking shots at AMD as I honestly believe based on the research it's Microsoft's lack of proper optimization for AMD chips which is another reason I've chosen to stick w/ Intel.
Microsoft even to this day is still screwing AMD users w/ the lack of proper optimizations.
Yeah for ER to not stutter I have to disable core 0, and of course it won't let me do that without turning off EAC, so no online for me. 😅
Wait so it wasn't my pc the reason of stutters in DS3? Holy fk I thought my pc was malfunctioning
The engine is one of the main reasons i love these games, i love how it feels, it's like every single movement your character makes is in your control and imo why most Souls likes don't feel as good. I hope they can optimize better but if it comes to a point where the only choice is switching to a completely different engine i'm not buying any new games (i'm lying i'll just be very sad)
Great content, man!
I'm looking forward to seeing your channel growing.
Keep the essence... It has lots of potential.
Cheers!
Thanks so much! I appreciate you watching!
the best video explaining the real objective problem of souls games
Imagine miyazaki made a standalone souls game, but instead it takes place in the future (2100s era) where an alien species that landed on earth millennias ago re-awakened to invade after its thousand years of consuming energy and you awakened from your pod chamber 300 years too late (kind of like code vein but if miyazaki makes it, it's better)
Gotta tell you, Im absolutely tired of people talking about Fromsoft titles with all the revent ER discord. But I know I can expect something worthwhile here.
I don't care about FPS and I am totally ok with how Bloodborne works on PS4, but the biggest complaint I have is the part of the formula that you always arrive late to the stage after some great events you never see having already taken place, then you play through your journey through a one of the more difficult games there are, only to get a few seconds long unsatisfactory ending as a reward. For example, if I decide to go fight my way through zombified Lordran, die 1000 times in the process and burn myself to ashes for it, I want to see that Lordran fluorishing again or the cycle being broken rather than.. you know what + credits roll. If I slay nightmares and make extra effort to discover and finish off the true antagonist, I want to see that sun shining over Yharnam. And so on, you get it.
It's ok when Bloodborne remaster comes on PS5 it would have locked 60fps
Sony when they fumble every possible opportunity to bring back a fan favorite IP:
@zaboono its free profit for them. why are they refusing to take it? :(
the er performance was crisp 60 fps on pc for me until the dlc came out, then places i was getting 60 fps in the base game non dlc zones started to drop and get unpredictable and the dlc zones near any of the big forge guys is like 45fps when they start shooting the fireballs out
same
kinda sad
And yet....From Software is wildly successful and hasn't missed in well over a decade now. Maybe frames per second doesn't mean jackshit in the grand scheme of things
I honestly did not know this was an issue at all. The Radahn fight was the first time I ever saw a problem. But ima simple person. Graphics mean very little to me. Tbh I actually kinda hate the hyper focus on graphics. So many games seem to suffer for “better graphics”. I frankly am 110% satisfied with DS3 quality graphics
From Software games seem to drop off, pretty alarmingly, though.
Elden Ring lost 90% of its player-base, within weeks. That's not good.
@@lonestar6709 They weed out the weak. Nothing wrong with that at all. People realize they don't have what it takes to git gud and leave
Also...why are you applying live service mentality to a single player game?
30 FPS especially on souls games looks terrible and makes the game play look and feel worse it’s not as bad on console but on kbm it’s horrible I have a mid-high end rig and sote was unplayable for the first few weeks because it would go from 60-40-50-25-60
Fromsoft needs to fix their framerates
0:48 you forgot Dark Souls 2, you can't tell me it's the same engine as DS1 lmao
Haha good catch. I chose not to include it. DS2 was built off of DS1's engine, but so was Bloodborne. They chose not to build off of DS2's engine and instead go with Bloodborne's updated version of the engine for future games.
To be honest, I am done with soulsbourne/likes. AC6 scratch an itch that I've never had before and I needed more. Since AC6 release, I've played their older title in the series and become addicted with the gameplay and the customization options.
Man did NOT watch the video
I love the moment when the director say that don't like the word "Soulslike", the problem are the fanbase.
There really are not many. The games are as close to perfect which is why they are so popular.
I love them all but no they aren’t
They are popular because they are fun, they are not perfect
i truly agree with you bro they are 🤏 this close they just got stomp on the bubbles in the rug you know
@@andrewramirez3998he said close to perfection and not that the games are perfect
@@andrewramirez3998 Andrew l2read pls
Armor needs to be relevant and magic builds viable but not OP. In fact all builds need to be viable and have the same difficulty in execution
Poorly optimized, janky animations, recycled assets, convoluted story that REQUIRES a wiki to read and the worlds JANKIEST camera, and much more. And this is coming from a person who has beaten Sekiro (need to beat again for a plat), platinumed BB, beat AC6 (need to get S rank to plat) beat DS3 and am currently playing the Demon’s Soul’s remake (currently on 3.2) and have ER in my backlog. So before anyone get’s on my head, I’ve played the games.
The performance issues are intentional features to make the games harder.
Miyazaki is truly a genius :D
Fully agree, at this point the only solution would be FromSoft switching to Unreal Engine.
They keep cutting corners with their engine mainly because they can reuse old assets/animations.
UE would probably be just as awful a choice (traversal stutter & bloated system specs necessary to even run the hunk a junk that's UE5).
IDK man, UE has kinda left me rooting for anything but that engine...
"They keep cutting corners with their engine mainly because they can reuse old assets/animations."
That doesn't make sense. If their animations come from any standard industry software package, they can just import into the new engine. Even if it doesn't, they just need to write a converter/importer program as a one-time job, and then they can bring it all in. The real issue is they have a team with tons of experience shipping games together with an engine they make and own, and now all of them need to learn a new engine.
@@TheMisterGuy switching engine is surely a painstaking process and why I don't think we will ever see FromSoft doing that for as long as they keep producing Miyazaki-quality games.
@@lionheart4424 Yeah it'll just get more and more painful until the dam breaks. One nice thing about using a game-agnostic engine is the engine company is out there upgrading it while you make your game. Then when you go to the next game, you have a team that knows the engine, and you can upgrade and just learn the new features, and you didn't have to pay full price for the R&D on all that. As their engine ages, it'll get more and more painful to keep upgrading it.
Wonky hit detection on grab attacks are always the bane of my existence
good to know only problem for fans is performance. not repetitive story telling, recycled bosses or same idea repeated over and over again. good to know black myth came out with interesting combat, interesting story and isnt following these games blindly.
I've played DS1, DS3, BB, ER & now, I'm playing DS2. Elden Ring is basically the only time I had stutters & it was with Promise Consort & the Dancing Lion. I saved my fights & watching them back, IDK how I wasn't killed when there where moments it was basically frozen.
nah the problem is that their games are super overrated
That only speaks of the fanbase and not of the actual quality of their games.
You should put spoiler warnings because I didn’t know the final boss.
For the dlc.
There is no problem. End of video.
I have a i7 4600G + gtx 1660 super + 16 gb RAM (low tier specs) and I run Elden Ring at high/maximum in 1080p with constant 50+/60 FPS. Much better than I expected when I bought the game. Maybe problems with performance start at higher resolutions or/and with ray tracing...?
i always hated that people never talk about the issues with the games because no game is perfect and no engine is perfect that's kind of the point, devs work on new games to try to perfect what they wanna do