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While the Cardinals request of $500M + in public money is ludicrous, the thought that they might leave the St. Louis area is even more ludicrous. And you mentioned the age of the stadium being around 25 years old……this is actually the 19th year in this stadium, opened in 2006. By the way, love all of your content but this one is a huge stretch.
Don't be too surprised if the Cardinals are in danger of moving. Here is a video that posted within the past 24 hours: St. Louis Cardinals tickets available for $0 as attendance hits lowest level at Busch Stadium III th-cam.com/video/hezbNCYFU9M/w-d-xo.html
Relocating the Cardinals would seriously be like relocating the Yankees. St. Louis is one of MLB's flagship teams, there is exactly a 0% chance they move my guy.
The City of St. Louis has a population of less than 275,000 so it is a city in decline. This is less than Gilbert, AZ. Considering there are several metropolitan areas without an MLB team that are more populous than St. Louis, then relocation is not out of the question.
@@tdubmusketeer If you look at current population trends, the Charlotte metropolitan area has surpassed the St. Louis metropolitan area in population, and Charlotte is growing at a fast rate while the St. Louis area population is declining. Charlotte is on the NC-SC border, so combining the population of the two Carolinas you would have over 16 million people. Thus, if the St. Louis Cardinals moved to Charlotte, they could have over 16 million people in their region. In contrast, the population of Missouri is about 6.2 million, but that is shared with two teams so consider that approximately half of those people would be in the Cardinals region of the state. That is about 3.1 million people. St. Louis is adjacent to southern Illinois, but most of the population of Illinois resides in greater Chicago (which has two teams). If you used 2024 population estimates, then the number of people living in southern Illinois is around 2 or 3 million. Thus, if we round up to 3 million, and add half the population of Missouri, then we get around 6 or 7 million. That is less than half of the combined population of the two Carolinas. Thus, it could make sense, from a long-term perspective, for the Cardinals to consider a move to Charlotte. This is not the 1950's anymore, population distributions and demographics have changed markedly throughout the United States. One could say that the Cardinals are an "iconic" franchise that wouldn't move, but the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants could have been considered in that category in the 1950's yet both moved to California. At that time, California (which is now a state in decline) was viewed in much the same way as the Carolinas are today (both booming states with a lot of population growth, particularly from the northern USA as well as from other parts of the USA and internationally). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
@@HighpointerGeocacherthat’s irrelevant considering they still draw better crowds than most of the league. Just because a city has more people doesn’t mean they’ll show up to games
Sounds like you're referring to the Chicago White Sox? As long as Jerry Reinsdorf owns the team, they will continue to struggle on the field with Reinsdorf refusing to spend any money to improve the team, plus making the wrong people in place to keep them from succeeding, and outdrawing the Flubs in attendance, not to mention trying to get taxpayers to foot the bill for a new ballpark, instead of paying for it himself, even though there's nothing wrong with the current ballpark.
The fact that there are rumors that the Cardinals of all teams could move is a scary thing for baseball, given how much St Louis loves the Cards and the deep tradition that team has in that city.
There’s no way the cards would move. The city is like top 3 when it comes being a baseball town. And if they did, a new team would set up shop in a heart beat
You don't want piss off STL. The city finally has a football team. Even though it's in the UFL, the fans broke the spring league record for attendance. Imagine what would happen if the Cards left.
@@uvutv-ol8qk yeah that’s the thing: they turn out at least three times four times the crowd for a spring league football team and regularly pack out Busch. Heck if they could get an NBA team there they’d support them too.
There is ZERO chance the Cardinals would EVER leave St. Louis. Leave downtown? Maybe. Leave the St. Louis Metro or even leave Missouri? NO CHANCE. They will of course need funding, but most will likely not come from the city, even if it’s threatened. A new ownership group would be much more likely, but I also doubt that would happen either. St. Louis was willing to put up, and voted in favor of, 300M with an extra 100M down the road to keep the Rams when the NFL promised to fund 200M before breaking that deal. In fact, St. Louis put so much into keeping the Rams, that they forced a settlement from the NFL in court for their foul play in moving to LA. Hell, look at what we did to keep the Blues back in 1983 - which prevented them from moving to Saskatoon. To think that St. Louis would not go further than any city in baseball to keep their team is just insane. This is wild speculative propaganda. The only way a professional sports team leaves St. Louis is if the entire league wants that team to move regardless of what’s done to keep the team. Which could of course happen, but for MLB? I highly doubt it…
I'm a Phillies fan and went to their spring training in 2023. Before I came home, I went to the Rays' opening day game and that stadium was great, from the food to the view. The worst thing about it was driving to the stadium. My Air Bnb was located 25 mins away but took me nearly 2 hours to get there. That's why it's never sold out because of the location. The new stadium will have the same problems with low attendance. Get it out of St. Petersburg.....
Living in one of Tampa’s suburbs, I actually enjoy Tropicana and the owners have done a good job keeping it updated over the years for what they have, but that drive once you get to 275 in Pinellas is character building.
If you don't win, the fans don't show up. Small TV markets don't help. Maybe the best model is a team in the top 21 TV markets, and then add one more each for NY, LA, and Chicago for 24 teams. Past that, league subsidies and perennially bad teams will continue.
Sorry the Cardinals should not be included with the others. I live among Cardinals fans and that fanbase is like MLB version of Packers fans (a fanbase a lot larger than the teams city would otherwise indicate) and they are what ESPN think Red Sox fans are.
I would put the Marlins over the Cardinals. I know the Marlins got a new shiny stadium in 2012, but that didn't fix their attendance woes. Their ownership continues to be bad. It's not going to happen in the next 5 years, but in 10-15 years I could see the Marlins being sold and moved out of MIami.
@@fatzotv Miami needs to change back to their old turquoise uniforms but instead of a big F just change it to a big M. That alone would immediately garner them a hoard of new young fans from all over the country. Having the most flashy of uniform and colors is what 8yr - 20yr of this day in age use to pick which team they support. I would think a lot of older fans with nostalgia would come back to support as well. But it would need to be done at the same time as some splashy free agent signings and a team that at least be in contention of making the wild card game or playoffs. Sadly though ownership is more in line of the Oankland A's where they're not willing to spend on free agents until attendance is up , so they get stuck in this awful downward trend of bad seasons and horrible attendance with no way out.
St Louis really needs a new stadium? What ever happened to building things to last. Unbelievable. The two most recognized stadiums in the league are 100 years old
The aren't asking for a new stadium. They are asking for a capital improvement of the current Busch Stadium. Renovations, repairs, upgrades...that sort of thing.
Anyone that supports public funding of stadiums owned by billionaires better not complain about taxes, raising minimum wage, etc. You are allowing socialized costs and losses with privatized profits.
I’m speaking honestly and from the heart when I say if the athletics and their minor-league team, the aviators were playing the same night here in Vegas, I would 100% go to the aviators game. The aviators experience is so user-friendly and enjoyable, why would I spend double the ticket cost, pay for parking, and battle with strip traffic to watch a mediocre team? They are doing really well though right now.
This is why I like hockey a little bit more than MLB in the NHL as well as the commissioner. Will do everything humanly possible to keep a team in a market. With the MLB will just threaten relocation it’s chunk change.
He bent over backwards so much for the Coyotes. It wouldn’t have shocked me if they had put a temporary rink on the border in Yuma before considering leave AZ 😆
Bettman gave up on Atlanta quickly, but for some reason didn't on Phoenix, which has arena issues. Atlanta didn't have an arena issue. Think about that. ATL had a bad hockey team with poor ownership, but it's a top 10 market and size with a good arena. But he just pulled the team without much thought.
@@PoliticallyIncorrect90the thrashers were left homeless too. the previous owners still owned now-state farm arena and in a lawsuit mess. thats why the thrashers moved to winnipeg so quickly, unlike arizona who got 15 years to fix it
Exactly Bena. At most only 4-5 cities/regions in the US and Canada can or really wants a MLB team without having to go to Mexico or even into Asia. I agree.
cardinals relocation is insane lol how many busch stadiums am i gonna see in my lifetime ha. the other 6 i could see relocating somehow... this is also why i dont understand why MLB would be considering expansion with so many teams having these issues
First, i wouldn't consider a team staying in the same market as a relocation (Anaheim v Long Beach for example). Second, a problem is the owners are getting even more greedy. Just a stadium isnt enough. It has to be a palace, and they want to have the surrounding area as well to develop as part of the cost.
Angel Stadium is a few months older than the Oakland Coliseum, making it the 4th oldest MLB ballpark. It opened at the beginning of the 1966 baseball season, whereas the Oakland Coliseum opened towards the end of the 1966 baseball season.
1. Fenway Park -- Boston Red Sox 2. Wrigley Field -- Chicago Cubs 3. Dodger Stadium -- Los Angeles Dodgers 4. Angel Stadium -- Los Angeles Angels 5. Oakland Coliseum -- Oakland Athletics MBL stadiums by age.
Arte Moreno had threatened to move up the freeway to Diamond Bar a few years ago. No way Arte moves to Long Beach, be cheaper to buy land in Diamond Bar than Long Beach on the water. I went to the Big A on Opening Day 1966 and watched them play at Chavez Ravine for the three years prior. Fun fact, Dodger Stadium was always called Chavez Ravine when the Angels played there. Was called Dodger Stadium when the Dodgers played. My uncle always thought it was funny. The Rays attendance will improve just by moving out of that dark musty stadium. But Florida just hasn't been a big baseball state, I guess from having so many transplants there.
You wrote, "Fun fact, Dodger Stadium was always called Chavez Ravine when the Angels played there. Was called Dodger Stadium when the Dodgers played." Similar to when the Jets moved from Shea Stadium to Giants Stadium, the Jets called it The Meadowlands when they played there.
@@HighpointerGeocacher I remember that, but I wasn't aware that was the reason. I wondered why the stadium was called the 2 names. I remember the first time I saw it from the NJ Turnpike out there in the middle of what looked like a marsh to me.
Nashville citizens don't want to pay for one team. The cost of living in Nashville has skyrocketed, and the Mayor was elected on a promise of not one dollar to finance another sports venue. Rumor has it that the Grizzlies have looked into leaving Memphis for Nashville, but that wouldn't require any funds for an arena, just a juggling of scheduling with the Predators. Only if Larry Ellison builds a stadium on the future Oracle Nashville campus is there a real chance for MLB in Nashville. The Nashville Stars group doesn't have the financing to get it done in expansion, and anybody wanting to move to Nashville will have to build their own ballpark.
It’s not limited to these seven, basically every 30 years every team’s fans save for 5-6 of the best markets will have to be on relocation watch in perpetuity.
The first thing you must understand, to discuss this issue is, the market conditions have changed. It is no longer a high priority for a large number of citizens to have a sports franchise. The only two teams that seem logical to move out of their current region are The A's and Rays. Both have had attendance problems for decades.
Yeah the corporate feel of all new stadiums is off putting I hate it. But it's all about the all mighty dollar now. They don't care about the real fans for a long time now.
Dbacks stadium is in dire need of repairs and while I don’t like the grunge match going on, I rather keep them in Phoenix as the current location is perfect with the new renovations downtown
How I see all these teams end up… Cardinals- staying in the St Louis area. MLB will work any way possible to keep one of their top staple franchises in that area. Rays - if St Pete (& county) don’t approve that new ballpark they’re moving to Orlando. White Sox - if state doesn’t approve funding (which I doubt they will) they’ll likely move. Which city? IDK is my guess. Royals - moving to Kansas City, Kansas. Angels - staying somewhere in Orange County. D-Backs - will get a new ballpark somewhere in the Phoenix region. Probably near Scottsdale. Athletics- hate to say this as I wish they’d stay in Oakland too…. Las Vegas as planned by the end of this decade.
No the rays will not move to Orlando. If they move theyre moving to Montreal like they were already trying to half time with. Going to Orlando won't solve the problem. Orlando isn't a good market and there's no place to put a stadium because if all the theme parks.
@@nikolaspaz8820 I think as of May 2024, the Rays staying in St Pete/Tampa region is at best 50/50. With that said, I agree with CubeInspector. It’s either a new 30,000 retractable roof ballpark in St Pete. Or the Rays move most likely to either Montreal or wild card the Charlotte area. FYI. The only way Montreal gets a MLB is a relocated one. It’s Nashville, Charlotte and Salt Lake City for the 2 new teams.
@@americangiant1003 I live in Florida so I’ve heard a lot about it I would say it’s alittle bit more than 50/50 due to the fact that the mayor of St. Pete is in favor of this deal and a lot of big businesses are also in support of it like the St. Pete NCAAP which is an important endorsement but nonetheless the city council members are voting on it so far 3 out of the 8 members are skeptic, a tie would mean no deal but by the looks of it it’s pretty close and ultimately I think it’ll pass obviously could be wrong we’ve seen things change pretty quickly before but there’s a lot of benefits here especially the Hines group which has designed so many great projects the only thing I don’t like is taxpayers paying for almost half but the Rays made sure to not get that on the ballot
I wonder if the Diamondbacks and Coyotes joined forces, would that change circumstances enough so they could make another run at that land in Tempe? It’s not the same referendum if the development proposal changes significantly. Of course, that would require Alex Meruelo to be nice to someone, and I think we all know how that’s likely to turn out 🙄
Where the Sox currently are is a site with more trains RIGHT THERE, and they have been at that intersection since 1910 and are a flagship AL team. The parking lots at Sox park take up more pace than the undeveloped land at the 78 in the south loop, they need to develop the area they are at, not move!!!
@@RobertDetertthere’s no way that would happen. Busch stadium is literally in the best spot possible for the city. Attendance would drastically be affected if they moved to stl county or further
@@Bob-Loblaw13 The Braves used data analytics and geographic information systems (GIS) to determine the area where the largest number of their fans came from and used that data to determine the location to build their current stadium in a suburban area of Atlanta, relocating from the location of their two prior stadiums in central Atlanta. This has enabled the Braves to improve their attendance and maintain their team success.
In the early 60s, Civic Center Redevelopment Corporation, spawned by the local chamber of commerce, built what became Busch II, which opened in 1966. A-B bought the stadium 16 years later. For Busch III, St. Louis City put together a financial plan where the only public dollars was apparently a loan from St. Louis County. Despite today’s economic times, this is now the first time the team is asking for some $500M in public money. A former St. Louisan, I think this is worth it to ensure the Cards stay in STL.
When I think of the "Old Guard" of MLB, I think of the Reds, Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Pirates, Cubs, as well as the Cardinals and White Sox. It would be so bizarre (and sad) to see either of those teams in a different city.
See my post explaining the regional limitations experienced by the Pittsburgh Pirates. This may explain why the Pirates have been one of the least successful MLB teams since they won their last World Series over 35 years ago.
Other than Tampa Bay and Oakland no other team is going to relocate ..And the Oakland to Las Vegas relocation is still up in the air because of 3 lawsuits , Fishers lack of investors and the fact Ballys stock in sinking faster than the Titanic ..Manfred and greedy owners are killing the game and the fans are the ones who are paying the price ..
White Sox are not relocating. They might not be as popular as the Cubs but they are still a historic team. They have tried to relocate like 5 times but they have always failed
After KC with the Chiefs and Royals and now Chicago with the Bears, I strongly think we’re gonna see mass relocation before expansion. If Chicago won’t approve hundreds of millions for the Bears then they aren’t gonna do it for the Sox. Teams and owners are gonna take note of cities not giving in to their ridiculous demands
Aidan I could be wrong but I don’t think the Bears will leave Chicagoland or even the state of Illinois entirely. The now on hold Arlington Heights proposal if the new Downtown Chicago retractable roof stadium plan fails is where the Bears might end up in the long term. As far as the White Sox, I can easily see them leave Illinois for good. Especially that money hungry Jerk White Sox/Bulls Majority Owner Jerry Reinsdorf (whom personally put most blame for both canceling the 1994 World Series and also ending premature the 1990 Bulls NBA Championship Dynasty)ending almost 125 years of a AL club in Chicago’s South Side.
Nats fan, surprised we were not on this list. The chance of us moving is close to zero, but with the Lerners looking to sell the team and the chaos around the MASN lawsuit it’s not the craziest thing I’ve ever heard
I can’t believe the Cardinals are here as I saw them & the Cubs in London last year in the green & gold and it was electric, now of course this year I’ll be in the red & white representing my new team the Phillies
It's a stretch to suggest the White Sox would leave Chicago, the 3rd largest TV market in the country. Their issue is they're fielding a bad team. The stadium being old is crazy. It's serviceable. If they want to leave for a market like Nashville, go ahead, even if they were to draw more there, the team won't be as profitable as it could be in Chicago. Similar case for the Angels. There's no way the Angels leave LA, the 2nd largest TV market in the country. Whether they're for sale or not has little bearing on this. Again, they're not going to leave that market for Charlotte, Nashville, Portland, etc.
nobody cares about the sox in Chicago.. the Cubs rule that city with an iron fist. No chance Jerry gets money for a new stadium and if Nashville offers to build him one for free he would absolutely leave.
Actually Rob this is not the year 1980 or even 2000. If current census data continues either Dallas or Houston or even both will be America’s 3rd and 4th largest city and or market by middle of this current 21st century at the latest. Don’t put anything past Jerry Reinsdorf. With his large role in both causing the 1994/‘95 MLB strike and ending the Bulls 1990 NBA championship dynasty(there are tons of books, news articles and video news clips confirming this) even at close to the century age himself, Reinsdorf is always out for making more money. Traditions and money be damn. 😡 On that point, I am much more confident of the Angels staying in the LA region(even if they left Anaheim) than the White Sox staying in Chicago with Reinsdorf in charge.
If I had wheels and peddles, I might be a bicycle... That aside, I understand the point you are making. Both DFW and HOU will likely surpass Chicago as the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the US. That said, whether that happens this year or in 10 years, CHI will still be a major market, and a top3 TV market at that. I lived there during the 90's watched the Bulls dynasty. I would submit it would have ended sooner or later, maybe not the next year, but likely there after. All good things must come to an end sooner or later. The most likely reality is Jerry will sell the team as he is fastly approaching 90. It will only be then that we'll see what happens. No matter, when you field a poor team, it doesn't matter much where you are located, you will have problems drawing, selling hats, jerseys, etc. Lets say he does not sell the team, he'll leverage the city, and state of IL just like he did in years past. Being in a town like Nashville, Portland, Charlotte, versus being in a city like Chicago, NY, LA, etc. creates challenges for a team to draw. If you think those towns can draw more fans over a sustained period of time than a big city, so be it. I do not.
@RobZelinka the sox would definitely have higher attendance in Nashville than they ever would in Chicago. The Cubs massively out draw them every year... No matter what the Sox do they will always be irrelevant in Chicago.
Different Situation in 1988 than in 2024 the White Sox had a near finished stadium in St Petersburg ( the one the Rays are trying to get out of now) they don't have one to move to right now
Frank McCourt* is talking about building on the dodgers stadium parking lot, without approval or trying to work with the Dodgers. He still owns the other half (pain)
Love your videos on this subject, Brodie. I do have to wonder, though, are we running out of markets to put teams? At what point will simple contraction be the only option? Realistically, if a team is turning a profit, and has a valuation in the billions, they should be paying their own way for their stadium. Fans (and taxpayers) are sick of the pleas of poverty when a team has just won a championship, or signed big free agents. If the team is losing money, then a change in ownership or folding the team should be the options talked about. it sucks, but we're tired of footing the bill for these guys.
I wouldn't be too smug and confident that St Louis will always have the Cardinals to kick around. The city has a history of losing professional sports teams. Cases in point, in baseball, the Browns left for Baltimore and became the Orioles. In football, they lost the Cardinals to Arizona, the Rams went back to LA, and in basketball, the Hawks moved to Atlanta
Fans still packing out Wrigley and Fenway, but we got other crybaby owners whining that their 20yo stadiums are “too old” and they need taxpayer funds to build a bigger better one. Gimme a break
As a Rockies fan, I do have a slight concern about a relocation possibility. Coors is arguably the best stadium in baseball in terms of quality and enjoyment. But should the Rockies continue to be a bottom of the cellar team in MLB and the fans slowly stop showing up, Monfort could potentially be forced to sell. The new ownership would be somewhat welcoming but what if they say that they are moving the team out of Colorado because of the altitude and the disadvantage of pitching there. I know it's probably unlikely but still scares me as a diehard Rox fan
Yea but no one is going to want to drive to Riverside for a MLB game. They barely even want to drive to Anaheim even though they live within 15 miles of the big A. I really don't know why Disney (who tells Anaheim city officials what to do) was so against Arte plan to build up around the stadium. Would of been cool to have a little Angels live district right next to the stadium.
@@James_Ford4815 😂😂😂😂 Good point, but 49ers fans got over it and are making the 40+ mile trek to Santa Clara. For all we know, the Bears and/or the White Sox will have to do the same thing if they end up in Indiana. I think that's going to be the norm for franchises in all sports who want to keep their teams in their original metro area.
Ducks are building OC Vibe - a shopping, entertainment, and sports district right across the street from the big A but somehow the Angels aren’t involved?
@@brodiebrazil My homie, you're in the bay. Lol, if the owners in any region in this country want to stay in their metro in any sport, it'll be reasonable to them to build the stadium almost 50 miles away. I do agree with your point, though. Ideally, every stadia would be downtown or just on the outskirts of its named city (or major city of the region). Land costs downtown have skyrocketed, especially in Cali. Teams that already played downtown and need a new facility are lucky because they can just rebuild right where they are and not worry about ticking off any businesses that are already there.
@jackel99 0 seconds ago I love it when cities are now saying, "No more free rides", while others say, "We don't need the problems". Wrigley was upgraded w/o public funding. Ricketts used his own money.
There is a common thread to all of these cases . Owners want stadium renovations or a new stadium or they'll move. The taxpayer doesn't want to pay the bill. The A's are a circus. The owner wants private LV investors to finish the LV stadium . The A's are playing in Sacramento for three years before moving to Las Vegas. I think that if they run out of private financing in Vegas, Clark County picks up the tab, the owner of the Kings buys the team, the owner of the warriors buys the team ,etc . The one with the most money after fines wins and buys the team from Fisher.
As someone from the St. Louis area it really does not surprise me one bit that a lot of Cardinals fans are in here just assuming everything will be hunky dory. Cool, they've been here for 100+ years but pretty much every relocation in MLB history has been due to stadiums, modern era or not. The Giants were in NY for 75 years, Dodgers were also in NY for 75 years. Braves were in Boston for 81 years. We live in a day and age where the general audience(as in people not hardcore into sports) are voting taxes down to subsidize these stadiums, especially ones that aren't really that old, and that wave of non support for public funding can easily break the damn as far as relocation goes. Once one moves, others will see the $ waiting from other cities that are hungry for a team and willing to fund a stadium. Also, as a White Sox fan, I think at the point they should just relocate. They will never not be second fiddle in Chicago.
The Sox are so outta Chicago it's actually amusing more than it is tragic. Ultimately Illinois will have to choose a team, Bears vs White Sox with their public funding help....it will be the Bears and the NFL in a landslide....say hello to Salt Lake City for the Sox, where an already funded stadium awaits.
24 out of 30 owners would have to approve a move from a move from the 3 rd largest city in the country and all the TV and radio revenue to whatever size market Salt Lake City is
"There should be some consistency" The only consistency in the Big 4 has been change. Relocations are strangely *uncommon* right now in baseball. There's only been one relocation in the last 52 years, but in the 18 years prior to that, there were 10 moves.
Predictions > - Angels: Move to Portland - Royals: Stay in Kansas City - Rays: Move to Orlando or Jacksonville - Diamondbacks: Stay in Phoenix - White Sox: Move to San Antonio - Athletics: Move to Las Vegas - Cardinals: Stay in St. Louis
Add me to all the other commenters shocked that St. Louis is on the list. If you're a true baseball fan, it's one of the best experiences there is. The Angels are frustrated by their lack of tradition especially when compared to the Dodgers. Their stadium, though old, is fine. Or at least it was back in 2013, the last time I went there. For the Royals, Kansas City, Kansas is in Wyandotte County, not Johnson. Arrowhead is sort of hallowed ground, like Lambeau Field, but the Royals could move out and give the Chiefs more room for tailgating and expensive hotel rooms and stuff. When the Royals build a new stadium, it should be on a riverfront whether it is on the KS or MO side. And the White Sox will figure it out.
Cardinals want to build ball park village phase 3. They want to upgrade Busch.. it's like a zero zero zero percent chance they "relocate". They make money hand over fist in their location. They want to expand it. If any public funding involved, it would be for phase 3.
Should every major sports team be barred from relocating, and remain in their current city for perpetuity, even if other metropolitan areas are growing faster and have surpassed the team's current area in population while the current city's population is declining?
The Cardinals finished in last place for the third time in over 100 years - and still drew over 3 million people -- what are you smoking to report that they are a relocation candidate?
Cards want money to add buildings to the “Ballpark Village” complex across the street from Busch Stadium III, i.e. another apartment tower. The city will not give the cards a red cent. The new MLS stadium was built 100% private, DeWallet has the money for renovations.
Dude labeled cardinals as something to watch and clarified it the least likely to happen, yet half the comments are “the cardinals aren’t moving!!!!!!!” Like it’s not at all what he said. Alot of these situations will likely get solved, but should be kept watch of too. It doesn’t mean he thinks all these teams are moving.
The White Sox should move, in my opinion. They will likely break the record for futility established by the 1962 Mets for most losses in a single season. Two places for the White Sox to consider. First, if they don't want to move very far, they should consider Indianapolis. They would have the entire state of Indiana to themselves rather than playing second fiddle to the Cubs in the declining and increasingly unsafe city of Chicago. Indiana has a population of nearly 7 million, greater than other Midwestern states with MLB teams including Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the two-team state of Missouri. Second, the other metro area would be Charlotte, in NC near the border with SC. The two Carolinas combined have a population over 16 million, which if it was a single state would be greater in population than all but four states and would be the most populous state with a single MLB team (until a future team arrives in the Raleigh-Durham area, which would be likely given current population growth trends). Also, the current AAA affiliate of the White Sox is in Charlotte.
@@leesdroidaccountharbin9665 How could they have a great rivalry if they are in different leagues? Although regular season interleague play did not exist at that time, one could have argued that the St. Louis Cardinals and Browns had a stronger rivalry when they were both in St. Louis, as they shared the same stadium and played each other in the 1944 World Series, less than 10 years before the Browns moved to Baltimore to become the Orioles. In the first half of the 20th Century, the St. Louis metropolitan area had a great percentage of the total USA population than the Chicago metropolitan area has today. For example, in 1950 the population within the city limits of St. Louis, about 850,000, was around 100,000 higher than the entire population of Arizona, which was about 750,000.
I do not support any public funds for companies that are chasing profits, but I do agree that enough can make it happen. Every such transaction should require a public referendum, and it will never pass lol
Yup makes absolutely no sense. They would have to put in a few rollercoasters to get more fans to make the drive across the bridge. A few restaurants and a park and shopping isn't going to sway people to make that drive. The owner is just being dumb and cheap , would rather risk it at the same spot instead of spending and moving to where all the people are in actual Tampa Bay.
The Rays should relocate to Orlando, Florida and become the Orlando Rays they would still be in the state of Florida but they would be near Walt Disney World park
White Sox are in trouble. Their best hope was to work with the Bears. With the two sides working separately, I can't see two different stadium tax bills passing. The chances of them beating the Bears for funds are nil. If its money or bust, they will be in Nashville or Charlotte. Like you said about the Royals, they're gonna just swap Kansas City's Rays if they don't this St. Pete deal done are in trouble. See them going to Orlando. Angels go to Long Beach if things dont work in Anaheim. Difference between the Diamondbacks and Coyotes is the DBacks have clout and stability in the region, their owner is generally liked, respected and appreciated. The Coyotes owners were almost all considered clowns and Leah from Phnx Hockey covered how poorly regarded the last was. Scottsdale is a very real area for the new park, but I'd be shocked if the team bids on that area of land Meurelo is planning to bid on. That would potentially alienate a demographic of their fan base. I know theres ample room at Salt River Fields where they hold Spring Training and their rookie league team to build their entertainment district that they've considered more than once. Big hold up is there's no form of public transportation that gets up there. Big plus with downtown is you can take the light rail and walk a block or two to get to games. As you alluded to, zero chance with the Cardinals. St. Louis and the state won't let that happen.
Some of those cities economies made a lot more sense for MLB when back in the day then now and the economies are much worse now. Cities like Nashville and Salt Lake City are much younger and affluent and would be a better fit in modern times. Those cities are exploding in population and will continue to grow. States like Utah have increasing tax bases and revenue , it’s super easy for them to throw money at a pro team. A state like Missouri much harder to get funding
There may be "danger" of teams moving, but the MLB is the most stable league with its frabchises. In the last 50 years, only two teams have moved. Washington losing a team to Texas (1972) and and the Expos move to Washington in 2005. Of your 7 teams, Oakland is a done deal to Vegas. Tampa is the best bet of the others to move. I don't see Angels, Cardinals, White Sox or D'backs moving. I don't count the Royals move to the the Kansas side of KC as moving. The White Sox have been in relocation rumors a dozen times over the last 50 years. Could happen... but doubt it.
It wasn't always rumors for the white sox. Tropicana Field was literally built for the White Sox. Then they backed out after they got their stadium deal for New Comiskey (at the very last minute). Later, the Giants used the Trop as leverage to get their new stadium.
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Some of those Utah jerseys look amazing! It’s good to add a city exploding with population and young people for the NHL
There is zero chance the Cardinals relocate
That's exactely what I said when I seen the Cardinals on this list...That will never happen the CARDINALS WILL NEVER LEAVE !!!!
St. Louis - a drinking town with a baseball problem…
maybe not today, but this is exactly how it begins
That they're even talking about it is not good
😂😂😂😂😂😂
There’s no way the Cardinals move 🤣
correct, not now. but: if this public funding thing gets messy after 10 years...
While the Cardinals request of $500M + in public money is ludicrous, the thought that they might leave the St. Louis area is even more ludicrous. And you mentioned the age of the stadium being around 25 years old……this is actually the 19th year in this stadium, opened in 2006. By the way, love all of your content but this one is a huge stretch.
@@scottrichardson4086 Have you seen the crime in St. Louis, empty downtown bldgs? Brodie is right. it's a matter of time.
😂😂😂 absolute zero chance that the saint louis cards move to out of downtown saint louis
@@brodiebrazil You are hilarious. The St. Louis fanbase is irreplaceable. Most dedicated fans in baseball.
Cardinals are staying in St. Louis
good.
Don't be too surprised if the Cardinals are in danger of moving. Here is a video that posted within the past 24 hours: St. Louis Cardinals tickets available for $0 as attendance hits lowest level at Busch Stadium III th-cam.com/video/hezbNCYFU9M/w-d-xo.html
Cardinals? 😂😂😂 that’s 0 percent chance
The Cardinals need to be like the Green Bay Packers. Owned by the FANS!
Never underestimate The cheapness and greed of these owners. They always want someone else to pay for their sh!t.
good.
Relocating the Cardinals would seriously be like relocating the Yankees. St. Louis is one of MLB's flagship teams, there is exactly a 0% chance they move my guy.
The City of St. Louis has a population of less than 275,000 so it is a city in decline. This is less than Gilbert, AZ. Considering there are several metropolitan areas without an MLB team that are more populous than St. Louis, then relocation is not out of the question.
@@HighpointerGeocacherthe STL metro has 2.8 million people. So yeah they’re safe
@@tdubmusketeer If you look at current population trends, the Charlotte metropolitan area has surpassed the St. Louis metropolitan area in population, and Charlotte is growing at a fast rate while the St. Louis area population is declining. Charlotte is on the NC-SC border, so combining the population of the two Carolinas you would have over 16 million people.
Thus, if the St. Louis Cardinals moved to Charlotte, they could have over 16 million people in their region. In contrast, the population of Missouri is about 6.2 million, but that is shared with two teams so consider that approximately half of those people would be in the Cardinals region of the state. That is about 3.1 million people. St. Louis is adjacent to southern Illinois, but most of the population of Illinois resides in greater Chicago (which has two teams). If you used 2024 population estimates, then the number of people living in southern Illinois is around 2 or 3 million. Thus, if we round up to 3 million, and add half the population of Missouri, then we get around 6 or 7 million. That is less than half of the combined population of the two Carolinas.
Thus, it could make sense, from a long-term perspective, for the Cardinals to consider a move to Charlotte. This is not the 1950's anymore, population distributions and demographics have changed markedly throughout the United States. One could say that the Cardinals are an "iconic" franchise that wouldn't move, but the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants could have been considered in that category in the 1950's yet both moved to California. At that time, California (which is now a state in decline) was viewed in much the same way as the Carolinas are today (both booming states with a lot of population growth, particularly from the northern USA as well as from other parts of the USA and internationally).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
@@HighpointerGeocacherthat’s irrelevant considering they still draw better crowds than most of the league. Just because a city has more people doesn’t mean they’ll show up to games
@@HighpointerGeocacher I'm not included in that 280,000 and a drive to the ballpark for me is about 25 minutes.
Who builds a state of the art house and abandons it after 30 years? It’s crazy what the taxpayers are forced to pay for in sports.
Sounds like you're referring to the Chicago White Sox? As long as Jerry Reinsdorf owns the team, they will continue to struggle on the field with Reinsdorf refusing to spend any money to improve the team, plus making the wrong people in place to keep them from succeeding, and outdrawing the Flubs in attendance, not to mention trying to get taxpayers to foot the bill for a new ballpark, instead of paying for it himself, even though there's nothing wrong with the current ballpark.
St Louis is going through a cash grab, not a legit relocation threat
The fact that there are rumors that the Cardinals of all teams could move is a scary thing for baseball, given how much St Louis loves the Cards and the deep tradition that team has in that city.
There’s no way the cards would move. The city is like top 3 when it comes being a baseball town. And if they did, a new team would set up shop in a heart beat
You don't want piss off STL. The city finally has a football team. Even though it's in the UFL, the fans broke the spring league record for attendance. Imagine what would happen if the Cards left.
@@uvutv-ol8qk yeah that’s the thing: they turn out at least three times four times the crowd for a spring league football team and regularly pack out Busch. Heck if they could get an NBA team there they’d support them too.
If the cards move I'd stop watching baseball. One of the 5 cornerstone franchises in the sport. And I'm not even a cards fan
0% chance the Cardinals move. The current stadium opened in 2006. Kind of hard to imagine "Ballpark Village" without a Ballpark.
There is ZERO chance the Cardinals would EVER leave St. Louis. Leave downtown? Maybe. Leave the St. Louis Metro or even leave Missouri? NO CHANCE. They will of course need funding, but most will likely not come from the city, even if it’s threatened. A new ownership group would be much more likely, but I also doubt that would happen either.
St. Louis was willing to put up, and voted in favor of, 300M with an extra 100M down the road to keep the Rams when the NFL promised to fund 200M before breaking that deal. In fact, St. Louis put so much into keeping the Rams, that they forced a settlement from the NFL in court for their foul play in moving to LA. Hell, look at what we did to keep the Blues back in 1983 - which prevented them from moving to Saskatoon. To think that St. Louis would not go further than any city in baseball to keep their team is just insane. This is wild speculative propaganda.
The only way a professional sports team leaves St. Louis is if the entire league wants that team to move regardless of what’s done to keep the team. Which could of course happen, but for MLB? I highly doubt it…
I'm a Phillies fan and went to their spring training in 2023. Before I came home, I went to the Rays' opening day game and that stadium was great, from the food to the view. The worst thing about it was driving to the stadium. My Air Bnb was located 25 mins away but took me nearly 2 hours to get there. That's why it's never sold out because of the location. The new stadium will have the same problems with low attendance. Get it out of St. Petersburg.....
Living in one of Tampa’s suburbs, I actually enjoy Tropicana and the owners have done a good job keeping it updated over the years for what they have, but that drive once you get to 275 in Pinellas is character building.
Move it to the fairgrounds area at the intersection of I-4 and I-75
If you don't win, the fans don't show up. Small TV markets don't help. Maybe the best model is a team in the top 21 TV markets, and then add one more each for NY, LA, and Chicago for 24 teams. Past that, league subsidies and perennially bad teams will continue.
Sorry the Cardinals should not be included with the others. I live among Cardinals fans and that fanbase is like MLB version of Packers fans (a fanbase a lot larger than the teams city would otherwise indicate) and they are what ESPN think Red Sox fans are.
St. Louis is a staple franchise. I do not see that team moving
I would put the Marlins over the Cardinals. I know the Marlins got a new shiny stadium in 2012, but that didn't fix their attendance woes. Their ownership continues to be bad. It's not going to happen in the next 5 years, but in 10-15 years I could see the Marlins being sold and moved out of MIami.
I can't see the MLB leaving Miami.
@@leguy5662 i agree, Miami is the next Megacity blossoming, the market will just be too big to not have a team in it
Cardinals not moving either
@@fatzotv Miami needs to change back to their old turquoise uniforms but instead of a big F just change it to a big M. That alone would immediately garner them a hoard of new young fans from all over the country. Having the most flashy of uniform and colors is what 8yr - 20yr of this day in age use to pick which team they support. I would think a lot of older fans with nostalgia would come back to support as well. But it would need to be done at the same time as some splashy free agent signings and a team that at least be in contention of making the wild card game or playoffs.
Sadly though ownership is more in line of the Oankland A's where they're not willing to spend on free agents until attendance is up , so they get stuck in this awful downward trend of bad seasons and horrible attendance with no way out.
So that stadium in Miami sits empty, then what the hell did they build it for? nothing
Mlb is embarrassing to sports
Moving the Cardinals out of St. Louis is like moving the Cowboys out of Dallas or the Maple Leafs out of Toronto. Will NEVER happen.
The Cowboys play in Arlington and not Dallas.
@@vancedurbin1132 😂semantics
Actually the Cowboys have moved twice, to Irving then to Arlington
St Louis really needs a new stadium? What ever happened to building things to last. Unbelievable. The two most recognized stadiums in the league are 100 years old
The Cardinals have played in 3 stadiums in their history and they want another one?
The aren't asking for a new stadium. They are asking for a capital improvement of the current Busch Stadium. Renovations, repairs, upgrades...that sort of thing.
They want to have an update of what today's stadium experience is these days
Busch stadium opened in 2006, so it's 18 years old
Anyone that supports public funding of stadiums owned by billionaires better not complain about taxes, raising minimum wage, etc. You are allowing socialized costs and losses with privatized profits.
100%
All of the sports owners don't own the stadiums. They're the main tenants of the stadium.The city or county owns the arenas/stadiums.
I’m speaking honestly and from the heart when I say if the athletics and their minor-league team, the aviators were playing the same night here in Vegas, I would 100% go to the aviators game. The aviators experience is so user-friendly and enjoyable, why would I spend double the ticket cost, pay for parking, and battle with strip traffic to watch a mediocre team? They are doing really well though right now.
Minor League > Major League
This is why I like hockey a little bit more than MLB in the NHL as well as the commissioner. Will do everything humanly possible to keep a team in a market. With the MLB will just threaten relocation it’s chunk change.
He bent over backwards so much for the Coyotes. It wouldn’t have shocked me if they had put a temporary rink on the border in Yuma before considering leave AZ 😆
As an Islander fan, I agree 100%
Bettman gave up on Atlanta quickly, but for some reason didn't on Phoenix, which has arena issues. Atlanta didn't have an arena issue. Think about that. ATL had a bad hockey team with poor ownership, but it's a top 10 market and size with a good arena. But he just pulled the team without much thought.
@@PoliticallyIncorrect90the thrashers were left homeless too. the previous owners still owned now-state farm arena and in a lawsuit mess. thats why the thrashers moved to winnipeg so quickly, unlike arizona who got 15 years to fix it
And that's why there's an NHL arena that's serving the best peach cobbler in North American sports.....
NOT!
There are not enough cities available to support all these teams that want to move.
Exactly Bena. At most only 4-5 cities/regions in the US and Canada can or really wants a MLB team without having to go to Mexico or even into Asia. I agree.
cardinals relocation is insane lol how many busch stadiums am i gonna see in my lifetime ha. the other 6 i could see relocating somehow... this is also why i dont understand why MLB would be considering expansion with so many teams having these issues
All municipalites and state governments should collude and say no to all sports leagues' requests for public money and deals. Pay your own way!
First, i wouldn't consider a team staying in the same market as a relocation (Anaheim v Long Beach for example).
Second, a problem is the owners are getting even more greedy. Just a stadium isnt enough. It has to be a palace, and they want to have the surrounding area as well to develop as part of the cost.
Angel Stadium is a few months older than the Oakland Coliseum, making it the 4th oldest MLB ballpark. It opened at the beginning of the 1966 baseball season, whereas the Oakland Coliseum opened towards the end of the 1966 baseball season.
1. Fenway Park -- Boston Red Sox
2. Wrigley Field -- Chicago Cubs
3. Dodger Stadium -- Los Angeles Dodgers
4. Angel Stadium -- Los Angeles Angels
5. Oakland Coliseum -- Oakland Athletics
MBL stadiums by age.
6. Kauffman stadium
As are relocating. Angel stadium is the only mediocre stadium in this list.
Arte Moreno had threatened to move up the freeway to Diamond Bar a few years ago. No way Arte moves to Long Beach, be cheaper to buy land in Diamond Bar than Long Beach on the water. I went to the Big A on Opening Day 1966 and watched them play at Chavez Ravine for the three years prior. Fun fact, Dodger Stadium was always called Chavez Ravine when the Angels played there. Was called Dodger Stadium when the Dodgers played. My uncle always thought it was funny.
The Rays attendance will improve just by moving out of that dark musty stadium. But Florida just hasn't been a big baseball state, I guess from having so many transplants there.
Even more interesting, the Angels played in Wrigley Field their first season. Granted the LA Wrigley Field.
You wrote, "Fun fact, Dodger Stadium was always called Chavez Ravine when the Angels played there. Was called Dodger Stadium when the Dodgers played."
Similar to when the Jets moved from Shea Stadium to Giants Stadium, the Jets called it The Meadowlands when they played there.
@@HighpointerGeocacher I remember that, but I wasn't aware that was the reason. I wondered why the stadium was called the 2 names. I remember the first time I saw it from the NJ Turnpike out there in the middle of what looked like a marsh to me.
if they’re looking in st pete i think its going to be rough… need it on the tampa side of the bay
Nashville isn't big enough for 7 major league teams even New York only has 2
Ba da boom
Nashville citizens don't want to pay for one team. The cost of living in Nashville has skyrocketed, and the Mayor was elected on a promise of not one dollar to finance another sports venue. Rumor has it that the Grizzlies have looked into leaving Memphis for Nashville, but that wouldn't require any funds for an arena, just a juggling of scheduling with the Predators.
Only if Larry Ellison builds a stadium on the future Oracle Nashville campus is there a real chance for MLB in Nashville. The Nashville Stars group doesn't have the financing to get it done in expansion, and anybody wanting to move to Nashville will have to build their own ballpark.
They may get A.A if Vegas calls throug h
Nashville shouldn't have an NHL team. It should have an AHL team and could probably support an NBA team.
@@FischerFan the Predators sell out almost every game and have for years. There is more feverish support for them than for the Titans.
It’s not limited to these seven, basically every 30 years every team’s fans save for 5-6 of the best markets will have to be on relocation watch in perpetuity.
It would be very funny if each of these teams' cities told them, "No. Go ahead, move." Where would they go?
The first thing you must understand, to discuss this issue is, the market conditions have changed. It is no longer a high priority for a large number of citizens to have a sports franchise. The only two teams that seem logical to move out of their current region are The A's and Rays. Both have had attendance problems for decades.
With the exception of the Cardinals? Any relocation threat by a team mentioned here would be met with a "Go ahead... we dare you" response.
I'm a baseball fan, but all I want to do is chill and see a ballgame & have a hot dog. There's no real need for these multibillion dollar facilities.
Yeah the corporate feel of all new stadiums is off putting I hate it. But it's all about the all mighty dollar now. They don't care about the real fans for a long time now.
Dbacks stadium is in dire need of repairs and while I don’t like the grunge match going on, I rather keep them in Phoenix as the current location is perfect with the new renovations downtown
As a resident of the greater Phoenix area, I would prefer to see the Diamondbacks in Scottsdale instead of Phoenix.
How I see all these teams end up…
Cardinals- staying in the St Louis area. MLB will work any way possible to keep one of their top staple franchises in that area.
Rays - if St Pete (& county) don’t approve that new ballpark they’re moving to Orlando.
White Sox - if state doesn’t approve funding (which I doubt they will) they’ll likely move. Which city? IDK is my guess.
Royals - moving to Kansas City, Kansas.
Angels - staying somewhere in Orange County.
D-Backs - will get a new ballpark somewhere in the Phoenix region. Probably near Scottsdale.
Athletics- hate to say this as I wish they’d stay in Oakland too…. Las Vegas as planned by the end of this decade.
No the rays will not move to Orlando. If they move theyre moving to Montreal like they were already trying to half time with.
Going to Orlando won't solve the problem. Orlando isn't a good market and there's no place to put a stadium because if all the theme parks.
I honestly think the Rays deal will get approved
@@nikolaspaz8820 I think as of May 2024, the Rays staying in St Pete/Tampa region is at best 50/50. With that said, I agree with CubeInspector. It’s either a new 30,000 retractable roof ballpark in St Pete. Or the Rays move most likely to either Montreal or wild card the Charlotte area. FYI. The only way Montreal gets a MLB is a relocated one. It’s Nashville, Charlotte and Salt Lake City for the 2 new teams.
@@americangiant1003 I live in Florida so I’ve heard a lot about it I would say it’s alittle bit more than 50/50 due to the fact that the mayor of St. Pete is in favor of this deal and a lot of big businesses are also in support of it like the St. Pete NCAAP which is an important endorsement but nonetheless the city council members are voting on it so far 3 out of the 8 members are skeptic, a tie would mean no deal but by the looks of it it’s pretty close and ultimately I think it’ll pass obviously could be wrong we’ve seen things change pretty quickly before but there’s a lot of benefits here especially the Hines group which has designed so many great projects the only thing I don’t like is taxpayers paying for almost half but the Rays made sure to not get that on the ballot
Montreal needs a new ballpark for a team to move there
I wonder if the Diamondbacks and Coyotes joined forces, would that change circumstances enough so they could make another run at that land in Tempe? It’s not the same referendum if the development proposal changes significantly.
Of course, that would require Alex Meruelo to be nice to someone, and I think we all know how that’s likely to turn out 🙄
We want you as a sportscaster here in Houston Texas. So that is another relocation.
Fenway 1912 Wrigley 1914 Dodger Stadium 1962 Angel Stadium and Oakland Coliseum 1966
The next oldest after all of those Kauffman Stadium 1973
Busch Stadium is just 18 years old. Yeah, they're asking for funding but there is ZERO relocation danger.
Where the Sox currently are is a site with more trains RIGHT THERE, and they have been at that intersection since 1910 and are a flagship AL team. The parking lots at Sox park take up more pace than the undeveloped land at the 78 in the south loop, they need to develop the area they are at, not move!!!
The CARDINALS??
@@RobertDetertthat’s not relocation lol that’s like saying the pistons relocated. No, that’s just moving into a new arena in a different part of town.
@@RobertDetertthere’s no way that would happen. Busch stadium is literally in the best spot possible for the city. Attendance would drastically be affected if they moved to stl county or further
@@Bob-Loblaw13 The Braves used data analytics and geographic information systems (GIS) to determine the area where the largest number of their fans came from and used that data to determine the location to build their current stadium in a suburban area of Atlanta, relocating from the location of their two prior stadiums in central Atlanta. This has enabled the Braves to improve their attendance and maintain their team success.
Montreal Expos were waiting for a team in Montreal.
In the early 60s, Civic Center Redevelopment Corporation, spawned by the local chamber of commerce, built what became Busch II, which opened in 1966. A-B bought the stadium 16 years later. For Busch III, St. Louis City put together a financial plan where the only public dollars was apparently a loan from St. Louis County. Despite today’s economic times, this is now the first time the team is asking for some $500M in public money. A former St. Louisan, I think this is worth it to ensure the Cards stay in STL.
What about the owners pay for their own toys? And use taxpayers money on Healthcare and education?
Thanks for the video, I as a Cardinals fan needed a good chuckle (other then our shit offense) and saying the Cards might move is funny as hell
Cardinals are one of the big historical team in MLB no shot they move but they almost did move to Houston so anything can happen
When I think of the "Old Guard" of MLB, I think of the Reds, Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Pirates, Cubs, as well as the Cardinals and White Sox. It would be so bizarre (and sad) to see either of those teams in a different city.
Four of those teams do not draw well.😅
See my post explaining the regional limitations experienced by the Pittsburgh Pirates. This may explain why the Pirates have been one of the least successful MLB teams since they won their last World Series over 35 years ago.
Other than Tampa Bay and Oakland no other team is going to relocate ..And the Oakland to Las Vegas relocation is still up in the air because of 3 lawsuits , Fishers lack of investors and the fact Ballys stock in sinking faster than the Titanic ..Manfred and greedy owners are killing the game and the fans are the ones who are paying the price ..
Outside of the Cardinals, the other 6 its plausible they could all move, I would prefer these teams stay where they are at.
White Sox are not relocating. They might not be as popular as the Cubs but they are still a historic team. They have tried to relocate like 5 times but they have always failed
Loyalty and history means nothing,just asked Brodie and the As fans
After KC with the Chiefs and Royals and now Chicago with the Bears, I strongly think we’re gonna see mass relocation before expansion. If Chicago won’t approve hundreds of millions for the Bears then they aren’t gonna do it for the Sox. Teams and owners are gonna take note of cities not giving in to their ridiculous demands
Aidan I could be wrong but I don’t think the Bears will leave Chicagoland or even the state of Illinois entirely. The now on hold Arlington Heights proposal if the new Downtown Chicago retractable roof stadium plan fails is where the Bears might end up in the long term.
As far as the White Sox, I can easily see them leave Illinois for good. Especially that money hungry Jerk White Sox/Bulls Majority Owner Jerry Reinsdorf (whom personally put most blame for both canceling the 1994 World Series and also ending premature the 1990 Bulls NBA Championship Dynasty)ending almost 125 years of a AL club in Chicago’s South Side.
Nats fan, surprised we were not on this list. The chance of us moving is close to zero, but with the Lerners looking to sell the team and the chaos around the MASN lawsuit it’s not the craziest thing I’ve ever heard
Also relocation means to a new region not just another city in the same metro….
Nice sound effects. You look relaxed and having fun making videos.
I can’t believe the Cardinals are here as I saw them & the Cubs in London last year in the green & gold and it was electric, now of course this year I’ll be in the red & white representing my new team the Phillies
It's a stretch to suggest the White Sox would leave Chicago, the 3rd largest TV market in the country. Their issue is they're fielding a bad team. The stadium being old is crazy. It's serviceable. If they want to leave for a market like Nashville, go ahead, even if they were to draw more there, the team won't be as profitable as it could be in Chicago. Similar case for the Angels. There's no way the Angels leave LA, the 2nd largest TV market in the country. Whether they're for sale or not has little bearing on this. Again, they're not going to leave that market for Charlotte, Nashville, Portland, etc.
nobody cares about the sox in Chicago.. the Cubs rule that city with an iron fist. No chance Jerry gets money for a new stadium and if Nashville offers to build him one for free he would absolutely leave.
Actually Rob this is not the year 1980 or even 2000. If current census data continues either Dallas or Houston or even both will be America’s 3rd and 4th largest city and or market by middle of this current 21st century at the latest.
Don’t put anything past Jerry Reinsdorf. With his large role in both causing the 1994/‘95 MLB strike and ending the Bulls 1990 NBA championship dynasty(there are tons of books, news articles and video news clips confirming this) even at close to the century age himself, Reinsdorf is always out for making more money. Traditions and money be damn. 😡
On that point, I am much more confident of the Angels staying in the LA region(even if they left Anaheim) than the White Sox staying in Chicago with Reinsdorf in charge.
If I had wheels and peddles, I might be a bicycle... That aside, I understand the point you are making. Both DFW and HOU will likely surpass Chicago as the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the US. That said, whether that happens this year or in 10 years, CHI will still be a major market, and a top3 TV market at that. I lived there during the 90's watched the Bulls dynasty. I would submit it would have ended sooner or later, maybe not the next year, but likely there after. All good things must come to an end sooner or later.
The most likely reality is Jerry will sell the team as he is fastly approaching 90. It will only be then that we'll see what happens. No matter, when you field a poor team, it doesn't matter much where you are located, you will have problems drawing, selling hats, jerseys, etc. Lets say he does not sell the team, he'll leverage the city, and state of IL just like he did in years past.
Being in a town like Nashville, Portland, Charlotte, versus being in a city like Chicago, NY, LA, etc. creates challenges for a team to draw.
If you think those towns can draw more fans over a sustained period of time than a big city, so be it. I do not.
@RobZelinka the sox would definitely have higher attendance in Nashville than they ever would in Chicago. The Cubs massively out draw them every year... No matter what the Sox do they will always be irrelevant in Chicago.
Different Situation in 1988 than in 2024 the White Sox had a near finished stadium in St Petersburg ( the one the Rays are trying to get out of now) they don't have one to move to right now
Brother the cardinals moving is ludicrous. Also Busch is only 18 years old
Correct.......2006
Not a Cardinals fan but serious, the Cards will never change cities. That's Baseball history. Anything for views.
I love baseball, but why should the taxpayer pay for someone else' business?
Well Tropicana field was totaled by a hurricane, My Guess is the Rays move to OKC,
The A's are going Las Vegas, The Royals to New Jersey.
Frank McCourt* is talking about building on the dodgers stadium parking lot, without approval or trying to work with the Dodgers. He still owns the other half (pain)
Now that Salt Lake City has approved 900 million for facilities , could the White Sox move there? It will take approval of owners of course
Love your videos on this subject, Brodie. I do have to wonder, though, are we running out of markets to put teams? At what point will simple contraction be the only option? Realistically, if a team is turning a profit, and has a valuation in the billions, they should be paying their own way for their stadium. Fans (and taxpayers) are sick of the pleas of poverty when a team has just won a championship, or signed big free agents. If the team is losing money, then a change in ownership or folding the team should be the options talked about. it sucks, but we're tired of footing the bill for these guys.
I wouldn't be too smug and confident that St Louis will always have the Cardinals to kick around. The city has a history of losing professional sports teams. Cases in point, in baseball, the Browns left for Baltimore and became the Orioles. In football, they lost the Cardinals to Arizona, the Rams went back to LA, and in basketball, the Hawks moved to Atlanta
Speaking of Missouri Kansas City has lost the Kings in basketball and Scouts in hockey
@@michaelleroy9281There is no way in hell Kansas will pay for new baseball or football stadiums.
Fans still packing out Wrigley and Fenway, but we got other crybaby owners whining that their 20yo stadiums are “too old” and they need taxpayer funds to build a bigger better one. Gimme a break
"It's time to leave the K" -John Sherman, Royals. Whiny ass baby.
As a Rockies fan, I do have a slight concern about a relocation possibility. Coors is arguably the best stadium in baseball in terms of quality and enjoyment. But should the Rockies continue to be a bottom of the cellar team in MLB and the fans slowly stop showing up, Monfort could potentially be forced to sell. The new ownership would be somewhat welcoming but what if they say that they are moving the team out of Colorado because of the altitude and the disadvantage of pitching there. I know it's probably unlikely but still scares me as a diehard Rox fan
Monfort should sell btw. No way trying to defend him at all. Just want new owners that will keep the team in Denver.
Love your work Brodie, but for anyone who has been to Southern California, there is a lot of land...if you go East into the outskirts.
Yea but no one is going to want to drive to Riverside for a MLB game. They barely even want to drive to Anaheim even though they live within 15 miles of the big A. I really don't know why Disney (who tells Anaheim city officials what to do) was so against Arte plan to build up around the stadium. Would of been cool to have a little Angels live district right next to the stadium.
@@James_Ford4815 😂😂😂😂 Good point, but 49ers fans got over it and are making the 40+ mile trek to Santa Clara. For all we know, the Bears and/or the White Sox will have to do the same thing if they end up in Indiana. I think that's going to be the norm for franchises in all sports who want to keep their teams in their original metro area.
Ducks are building OC Vibe - a shopping, entertainment, and sports district right across the street from the big A but somehow the Angels aren’t involved?
I meant reasonably speaking, there's not
@@brodiebrazil My homie, you're in the bay. Lol, if the owners in any region in this country want to stay in their metro in any sport, it'll be reasonable to them to build the stadium almost 50 miles away.
I do agree with your point, though. Ideally, every stadia would be downtown or just on the outskirts of its named city (or major city of the region). Land costs downtown have skyrocketed, especially in Cali. Teams that already played downtown and need a new facility are lucky because they can just rebuild right where they are and not worry about ticking off any businesses that are already there.
@jackel99
0 seconds ago
I love it when cities are now saying, "No more free rides", while others say, "We don't need the problems".
Wrigley was upgraded w/o public funding. Ricketts used his own money.
There is a common thread to all of these cases . Owners want stadium renovations or a new stadium or they'll move. The taxpayer doesn't want to pay the bill. The A's are a circus. The owner wants private LV investors to finish the LV stadium . The A's are playing in Sacramento for three years before moving to Las Vegas. I think that if they run out of private financing in Vegas, Clark County picks up the tab, the owner of the Kings buys the team, the owner of the warriors buys the team ,etc . The one with the most money after fines wins and buys the team from Fisher.
As someone from the St. Louis area it really does not surprise me one bit that a lot of Cardinals fans are in here just assuming everything will be hunky dory. Cool, they've been here for 100+ years but pretty much every relocation in MLB history has been due to stadiums, modern era or not. The Giants were in NY for 75 years, Dodgers were also in NY for 75 years. Braves were in Boston for 81 years. We live in a day and age where the general audience(as in people not hardcore into sports) are voting taxes down to subsidize these stadiums, especially ones that aren't really that old, and that wave of non support for public funding can easily break the damn as far as relocation goes. Once one moves, others will see the $ waiting from other cities that are hungry for a team and willing to fund a stadium. Also, as a White Sox fan, I think at the point they should just relocate. They will never not be second fiddle in Chicago.
Not thumbs down, Thumbs Up!! 😉 👍
Royals, rays, marlins, & eventually Pirates only team that will move. All else would be moving to smaller markets
The Sox are so outta Chicago it's actually amusing more than it is tragic. Ultimately Illinois will have to choose a team, Bears vs White Sox with their public funding help....it will be the Bears and the NFL in a landslide....say hello to Salt Lake City for the Sox, where an already funded stadium awaits.
Go back to Wrigley...
Sox are not going to Utah
24 out of 30 owners would have to approve a move from a move from the 3 rd largest city in the country and all the TV and radio revenue to whatever size market Salt Lake City is
"There should be some consistency"
The only consistency in the Big 4 has been change. Relocations are strangely *uncommon* right now in baseball. There's only been one relocation in the last 52 years, but in the 18 years prior to that, there were 10 moves.
Absolutely zero chance the Cardinals leave
Predictions >
- Angels: Move to Portland
- Royals: Stay in Kansas City
- Rays: Move to Orlando or Jacksonville
- Diamondbacks: Stay in Phoenix
- White Sox: Move to San Antonio
- Athletics: Move to Las Vegas
- Cardinals: Stay in St. Louis
Add me to all the other commenters shocked that St. Louis is on the list. If you're a true baseball fan, it's one of the best experiences there is. The Angels are frustrated by their lack of tradition especially when compared to the Dodgers. Their stadium, though old, is fine. Or at least it was back in 2013, the last time I went there. For the Royals, Kansas City, Kansas is in Wyandotte County, not Johnson. Arrowhead is sort of hallowed ground, like Lambeau Field, but the Royals could move out and give the Chiefs more room for tailgating and expensive hotel rooms and stuff. When the Royals build a new stadium, it should be on a riverfront whether it is on the KS or MO side. And the White Sox will figure it out.
I know before the A's to Vegas got as close as it has to being a done deal. The city of Henderson was talking about a stadium for the Diamondbacks
I’m a Cardinals fan from St. Louis and I know they will never leave.
Hell will literally freeze over before the St Louis Cardinals move out of StLouis
Cardinals want to build ball park village phase 3. They want to upgrade Busch.. it's like a zero zero zero percent chance they "relocate". They make money hand over fist in their location. They want to expand it. If any public funding involved, it would be for phase 3.
Should every major sports team be barred from relocating, and remain in their current city for perpetuity, even if other metropolitan areas are growing faster and have surpassed the team's current area in population while the current city's population is declining?
The Cardinals finished in last place for the third time in over 100 years - and still drew over 3 million people -- what are you smoking to report that they are a relocation candidate?
Cards want money to add buildings to the “Ballpark Village” complex across the street from Busch Stadium III, i.e. another apartment tower. The city will not give the cards a red cent. The new MLS stadium was built 100% private, DeWallet has the money for renovations.
None of those are in serious danger except the White Sox & maybe Rays
Dude labeled cardinals as something to watch and clarified it the least likely to happen, yet half the comments are “the cardinals aren’t moving!!!!!!!” Like it’s not at all what he said. Alot of these situations will likely get solved, but should be kept watch of too. It doesn’t mean he thinks all these teams are moving.
I stongly believe that the White Sox will end up in the suburbs.
Cardinals moving is a joke.
Cicero White Sox.
The White Sox should move, in my opinion. They will likely break the record for futility established by the 1962 Mets for most losses in a single season.
Two places for the White Sox to consider. First, if they don't want to move very far, they should consider Indianapolis. They would have the entire state of Indiana to themselves rather than playing second fiddle to the Cubs in the declining and increasingly unsafe city of Chicago. Indiana has a population of nearly 7 million, greater than other Midwestern states with MLB teams including Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the two-team state of Missouri.
Second, the other metro area would be Charlotte, in NC near the border with SC. The two Carolinas combined have a population over 16 million, which if it was a single state would be greater in population than all but four states and would be the most populous state with a single MLB team (until a future team arrives in the Raleigh-Durham area, which would be likely given current population growth trends). Also, the current AAA affiliate of the White Sox is in Charlotte.
@@HighpointerGeocacher no. The White Sox moving would affect a 6 decade plus rivalry that's one of the best in baseball.
@HighpointerGeocacher If you think MLB is going to leave Chicago, the 3rd largest market with only one team then you don't know sports economics.
@@leesdroidaccountharbin9665 How could they have a great rivalry if they are in different leagues? Although regular season interleague play did not exist at that time, one could have argued that the St. Louis Cardinals and Browns had a stronger rivalry when they were both in St. Louis, as they shared the same stadium and played each other in the 1944 World Series, less than 10 years before the Browns moved to Baltimore to become the Orioles.
In the first half of the 20th Century, the St. Louis metropolitan area had a great percentage of the total USA population than the Chicago metropolitan area has today. For example, in 1950 the population within the city limits of St. Louis, about 850,000, was around 100,000 higher than the entire population of Arizona, which was about 750,000.
I do not support any public funds for companies that are chasing profits, but I do agree that enough can make it happen. Every such transaction should require a public referendum, and it will never pass lol
Tropicana field location is one reason attendance is low to build a new stadium near the same site is not smart
Yup makes absolutely no sense. They would have to put in a few rollercoasters to get more fans to make the drive across the bridge. A few restaurants and a park and shopping isn't going to sway people to make that drive. The owner is just being dumb and cheap , would rather risk it at the same spot instead of spending and moving to where all the people are in actual Tampa Bay.
The Rays should relocate to Orlando, Florida and become the Orlando Rays they would still be in the state of Florida but they would be near Walt Disney World park
White Sox are in trouble. Their best hope was to work with the Bears. With the two sides working separately, I can't see two different stadium tax bills passing. The chances of them beating the Bears for funds are nil. If its money or bust, they will be in Nashville or Charlotte.
Like you said about the Royals, they're gonna just swap Kansas City's
Rays if they don't this St. Pete deal done are in trouble. See them going to Orlando.
Angels go to Long Beach if things dont work in Anaheim.
Difference between the Diamondbacks and Coyotes is the DBacks have clout and stability in the region, their owner is generally liked, respected and appreciated. The Coyotes owners were almost all considered clowns and Leah from Phnx Hockey covered how poorly regarded the last was. Scottsdale is a very real area for the new park, but I'd be shocked if the team bids on that area of land Meurelo is planning to bid on. That would potentially alienate a demographic of their fan base. I know theres ample room at Salt River Fields where they hold Spring Training and their rookie league team to build their entertainment district that they've considered more than once. Big hold up is there's no form of public transportation that gets up there. Big plus with downtown is you can take the light rail and walk a block or two to get to games.
As you alluded to, zero chance with the Cardinals. St. Louis and the state won't let that happen.
St. Louis Cardinals are going nowhere. However, you might want to add the Miami Marlins to this list.
Some of those cities economies made a lot more sense for MLB when back in the day then now and the economies are much worse now. Cities like Nashville and Salt Lake City are much younger and affluent and would be a better fit in modern times. Those cities are exploding in population and will continue to grow. States like Utah have increasing tax bases and revenue , it’s super easy for them to throw money at a pro team. A state like Missouri much harder to get funding
...why does the price of the stadiums sound like Jackie Mason is describing it?
There may be "danger" of teams moving, but the MLB is the most stable league with its frabchises. In the last 50 years, only two teams have moved. Washington losing a team to Texas (1972) and and the Expos move to Washington in 2005.
Of your 7 teams, Oakland is a done deal to Vegas. Tampa is the best bet of the others to move. I don't see Angels, Cardinals, White Sox or D'backs moving. I don't count the Royals move to the the Kansas side of KC as moving.
The White Sox have been in relocation rumors a dozen times over the last 50 years. Could happen... but doubt it.
It wasn't always rumors for the white sox. Tropicana Field was literally built for the White Sox. Then they backed out after they got their stadium deal for New Comiskey (at the very last minute). Later, the Giants used the Trop as leverage to get their new stadium.
It's time that Congress steps in and says NO MORE TAX PAYER MONEY for sports teams, arenas and stadiums. Fund it yourself or fold. PERIOD! FULL STOP!
How about Miami Marlins? They also draw low attendance.
These teams need to know their place in HISTORY.. it's not about maximizing money.
to them, it is
the history of pro sports has always been about making money and lots of it.
I'm fine if the Royals leave for Kansas City , Kansas. Just as long as it is in Kansas City period!