*Some other videos you might like:* Yankees fans get punishment after World Series Interference? 📺 th-cam.com/video/0HN2uGbFHxE/w-d-xo.html Why are NBA teams shooting SO MANY three pointers? 📺 th-cam.com/video/uh85CuSbwXU/w-d-xo.html San Jose Sharks: TWO Stanley Cups projected by EA Sports 📺 th-cam.com/video/YBgJsniOf3o/w-d-xo.html Oakland Coliseum to host CRICKET in 2025? 📺 th-cam.com/video/DmbqC6G_2G0/w-d-xo.html Abu Dhabi to get Las Vegas Sphere twin 📺 th-cam.com/video/WyQtH-CxXoI/w-d-xo.html Steph Curry made Lakers Rookie Quincy Olivari cry 📺 th-cam.com/video/rdwkmMNQZ7A/w-d-xo.html Here's how MLB could INSTANTLY improve postseason broadcasts 📺 th-cam.com/video/5M_5piWhtiw/w-d-xo.html A's "saved" Dontrelle Willis [Let's Go Oakland E02] 📺 th-cam.com/video/v_ahDeN0p7U/w-d-xo.html
Brodie your right about San Diego even the AHL Gulls nearly sell out their games. It's a shame that the Chargers and Clippers left. The Pads have the city all to themselves.
@@wongleebruce You’re actually wrong in this case and so is video. The Chargers move BACK to LA had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the fans came to games. It had everything to do with the team wanting and needing a new Stadium and those same fans you are praising voting down every motion to help the team build it. Even when the team said help us with this or we leave, the people still voted it down. They got what they asked for.
We almost lost our Seahawks the same way. People were standing in front of the moving trucks to stop it. Finally, Paul Allen bought it on the condition that a new stadium would be built. He contributed part of the cost but also wanted to have local participation to show they still wanted the team. The rest is history. RIP Paul Allen.
@@ChrisBakerauthor The NFL would have just given the owner an expansion team, he was just being difficult because he was always difficult. Memorial stadium was trash but the constant lying that "the team isnt going anywhere" is what really caused the bitterness. A lot of people in Baltimore were actually uncomfortable with the idea of the Browns coming here until we were reassured the Browns would get the next expansion team within 5 years. Also Baltimore made sure that none of the Browns legacy came with the team because of how awful the theft of the colts history was. People in Baltimore who lived through that still hate Jim Irsay Sr. with a passion. He was an awful man. I feel sorry for his son, because despite all the money his father must have made him absolutely miserable. People dont develop drug problems unless they have an inability to produce the chemicals in their brain to make them feel wellness, and when exposed to an external source they are unwilling to give it up and go back to the bleakness. Despite a life of material comfort Irsay Jr. has had many struggles and I would have to attribute that to the treatment he received from his alcoholic contrarian father.
@@booradley6832 I don't care if you think he was an "an awful man" or whatever. The bottom line is that the city threatened to take a man's property, and he chose the best option that was available to him. He took his property outside of the jurisdiction that wanted to take it. Most of your response is totally irrelevant to the issue.
Always thought the NFL used the absence of a team in Los Angeles to allow several teams to leverage the threat to move to LA in getting new stadiums in their existing cities.
@@Scott-vk4jvStan Kroenke tanked the Rams in St. Louis and turned a competitive team into a perennial basement dweller for a decade plus only to justify wanting to move the team due to bad attendance. Don’t forget how he lied and claimed he was willing to work with the city of St. Louis only to have already secured a move after St. Louis had purchased land for a new stadium. Stan is lucky St. Louis settled the lawsuit against him as from what I understand the firm representing St. Louis had a slam dunk case that if it went to trial would have cost Stan Kroenke over a billion dollars although 750 million is still a lot for a settlement. You think Kroenke righted a wrong by bringing the Rams back to LA, however in the end Stan could give two f*cks about the fans in LA or in any of the cities where he owns teams as he has proven that he believes fans and teams are only there to make him money and success only comes down to how much money he can extract from the team and the fan base. Just ask Arsenal fans how much they adore Stan Kroenke lol.
When teams relocate, I feel that it should be mandatory to do what Charlotte Hornets, Cleveland Browns, and San Jose Earthquakes did. That is, you leave the namd AND history and trophies behind in the city that you came from. You can take your players and front office because they come and go anyway, but those titles and that historu do not belong in another city imo.
No no no! History isn't arbitrary. History is based on fact. The current Cleveland team was a whole new team in 1999, falsely claiming to be the team that departed the city, 3 years earlier!
This one can be argued either way. It's not fair to the fans who've lost their team, but then it is a different organization that's taken the place of a departed team. To me, the best answer is for both the departing team and a succeeding team with the same nickname is NOT to claim any history of the team which has moved.
Teams move. I think uniforms are fine if they decide to change the name in the new city. If Montreal gets another baseball team, they should be able to call themselves the Expos. Nationals shouldn't own it. But it's still a different franchise. But since the Colts kept their name, sorry Baltimore you can't get the Colts back.
The Hornets didn't leave their name behind. They kept were using it in New Orleans for over 10 years before the new owner rebranded them. I don't totally agree with the premise. A lot of historic teams have moved around, especially in baseball. Heck, the Athletics are waiting on their fourth home right now.
The sexual harassment (it wasn't assault) was pathetic excuse. The Northstars were on life support by the time Norm Green arrived. The original owners almost folded the team in the late 70s because attendance dropped horribly. The merger with the Cleveland Barons saved the North Stars. In the late 80s attendance had fallen so bad (they were dead last in attendance in 89-90 season) and the Metropolitan Sports Commission, who owned the Met Center (they fleeced it from the original owners), wouldn't spend a penny on renovations. So the Gund Bros planned on moving them to San Jose, but Lou Nanne & the Blackhawks owner came up with a deal to keep the North Stars in MN. Thanks to the North Stars getting hot in the 2nd half of the 90-91 season AND a special season ticket promo for the remainder of that season and the next season where if you bought 2 season tickets you'd get a 3rd seat for free, attendance jumped. Again the Sports Commision wouldn't spend a penny on renovations for the Met. So Norm Green spent $20 million of his own money renovating the Met. The team stunk again and attendance plummeted again. The Target Center, T-WOLVES owners & the Sports Commision wouldn't help the North Stars with a move to Target Center. The deal was unworkable for the Northstars (Similar to how they didn't help the Winnipeg Jets move to Minneapolis a couple years later) and the Civic Center was a terrible arena for hockey. The real blame goes to the Sport Commision and the fair weather fans, who only showed up when the team was good. And there's proof of that in the FACTS that the T-Wolves almost move to New Orleans because the original owners went broke and the Minnesota Twins drawing less fans than the St. Paul Saints in the late 90s and almost being contracted.
@@SaintGBar22they really don’t, there was one off hand comment the media ran with last year but that’s it. They’re partially funded by the richest man in Canada, they’ll be fine
@@SaintGBar22 Uh yes it was. There's no uncertainly about the Jets staying in Winnipeg. I live there. If you knew anything about the owners of the Winnipeg Jets True North is basically buying up every real estate spot in downtown Winnipeg that exists are are owned by the richest family in Canada. The franchise value has increased 5 fold in the 10 years they have been back. Who cares if they lose a few million a year. The Thomson's have made 800 million on the franchise in increased value in 10 years. FYI, how are the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes doing these days? ROFL
I'm from Connecticut and though the team moved when I was very young and I never got to see them, it pisses me off when I see the Carolina Hurricanes put on Whalers nights in a city the Whalers never played in
@berranari1 Who the Hurricanes? Wear their own damn uniforms and stop putting on Whalers nights. They're the only team in the league that does that cash grab crap. Avs don't dress as the Nordiques anymore. Jets don't put on Thrashers nights. Devils never put on Rockies or KC Scouts nights
The Rams didn’t leave because the dome wasn’t “fit” they would have left if it was a top ten facility. They left to make more money. In fact the city of St Louis was ready to build them another stadium while they were still paying off the dome.
Big miss in this video to not mention the stadium plan in place in STL and Kronke and the NFL ignoring their own relocation guidelines and losing a big lawsuit about it. The Rams had the worst record in history the last five years in STL and the city still supported them. It was a cash grab leaving STL and that is it.
@@immolationliquidations yeah but that move followed NFL relocation guidelines. She couldn’t get a stadium deal in LA and St Louis was already building one. Stan Kroenke never negotiated with the city of St Louis in good faith, and broke the lease the first opportunity he got.
The sheer amount of ignorance regarding why the Expos became the Nationals is unbelievable, because Montreal was a hot bed for baseball, cause the Expos drew very respectable attendance figures right up until the franchise was fucked over by Bud Selig, Jeffrey Loria and the rest of Major League Baseball.
The 1994-95 strike hurt the Expos' attendance, then Bud and MLB let Loria get the team and Loria finished them off. Then Bud and MLB had the absolute gall to let Loria buy the Marlins in the three-team deal with the Red Sox and Expos. Then in Miami, Loria truly showed that he was the worst sports owner of all time.
Watching from Vancouver Brodie. Thanks for the shout out. NBA would thrive here. The original Grizzlies had incompetent management and missed on a lot of picks. Very first high pick Big Country Reeves was a bust. The team never got its legs under it. Basketball is huge in 🇨🇦. We should get another team and also in Seattle. Natural rivalry.
There is a reason why outside of Hockey there are only pro teams in Ontario. Moving more teams to Canada would hurt US ratings for the NBA impacting their future negotiations. You also have the exchange rate as well. Even the NHL isn’t working to get a US team to Quebec city because of these factors and QC having an NHL ready arena.
Another reason the Grizzlies left is that the NBA wouldn't let them or the Raptors have the #1 overall pick the first three years after they entered the league.
I'm a Pens fan, the North Stars got hosed after that Cinderella Finals run in '91. Undoing the Seals/Barons-North Stars merger to create the Sharks was unfair. The Sharks owners should have just been given a full expansion team on their own.
Though the original Seals/barons owners did get fucked over by getting hostilely taken over by someone else and watching their team bring run into the ground and then dismantled
I think the North Stars/Sharks dispersal draft is overhyped as a cause for the former's demise. Outside of Irbe, no one really significant was involved in that draft. Just a bunch of guys who would max out at 200 games as journeymen in the NHL. The team that really suffered from that was the Kalamazoo Wings, and arguably the IHL as a whole.
It's nice to here somebody that knows a lot about the history of the North Stars/Dallas Stars. As a fan of the Dallas Stars (Went to the first game in on October 5th, 1993) I have been to many a game of the Stars. I worked the last 5 years at the American Airline Area and I am now a full season ticket holder to the Stars. Thank God they moved here in 1993!
If they kept the same team together, due to the chemistry they had, I have no doubt they finish top 5 in 1992. They were I think the 6th best team after Christmas in 1990, and cooked the league in the playoffs. They kept most of their team, but losing players to the sharks did really hurt them
Hey, Brodie Brazil, You stated at the 4 minute mark that it was confusing for St. Louis to have an MLB team and an NFL team with the same name. Not so. I grew up in St. Louis. That both teams were the Cardinals gave the city an identity and a sense of pride. One played in the summer; one in the fall and winter. Besides, everyone called the NFL team the "Big Red." Anyone can distinguish between baseball and football. What's so confusing? Ain't nothing confusing about that.
I agree. When I was there, I would also hear the baseball Cardinals often referred to as the 'Redbirds.. The football team was only referred to as only the Cardinals.
The Chargers are the worst one by far. The Rams was probably the most despicable but at least LA would welcome the Rams. LA does not want the Chargers and their existence in LA is a disgrace. Spanos should be removed by the league.
@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 I'd go with just the Devils. If they never left Colorado then as a bonus the Nordiques might still be around today as well. Course the eventual MLB team that came around would need a different name.
The immediate aftermath of the Ravens becoming relevant and stable, winning the Super Bowl and the expansion Browns being what they were. Especially knowing they'd be gone before the season ended in 1995. (similar to the A's) I don't know. Probably not just an honorable mention imo. That really sucked for Browns fans
People always get this mixed up because the situation was such a mess the Browns never relocated they tried to Baltimore was awarded a new team and Cleveland went inactive for a few seasons before coming back still the Same Franchise
Brodie, the problem with the Chargers is they did not operate in good faith to keep the team in San Diego. Myself and others had submitted stadium plans to keep the team in San Diego and we were given the run around by Mark Fabiani, who's Dean Spanos attorney. This is the same lawyer that got Clinton out of I did not have s*x with that woman. He's the master of the spin. The team has arguably had their sights set on LA since at least 2010. My stadium plan was the Phase 4 Convention Center Expansion & Stadium which expanded the convention center and built the stadium on the bayfront. Would have been great for conventions like Comic Con, that could have utilized that space.
The fact that there's still people that believe that San Diego did not care about the Chargers is insane. It's like saying Oakland didn't care about the A's. nonononono, there's a difference between not supporting a team, and not supporting an owner
You are right, I think a new stadium in Mission Valley would have passed but Spanos wanted out and knew the downtown plan would fail so he could move to LA. I found it a huge betrayal.
There were not enough charger fans in the city of san diego to pass a stadium bill! The charger fans live in other shit hole cities in san diego county or in orange county! But not the city! The county is not the city! You dont get to vote! Now we gotta get rid of the loser padres next! They are just as much a disgrace to san diego as the chargers!
If Los Angeles was able to “Re-Ram” I don’t know why they couldn’t “Re-Raider” when both the Raiders and Chargers were moving in the same year. The L.A. Raiders actually had some great success and history in L.A.
Since the Chargers were hellbent on leaving San Diego, they should have gone to Vegas while the Raiders should have gone back to LA as I think the Raiders are far more popular in LA then the Chargers
The cola wars really had no effect on the North Stars move, as the Met Center switched from Pepsi to Coke the final 2 years the team played there. The biggest reasons were due to the Minnesota Sports Commission’s failure to create a plan for a new arena and Norm Green’s desire to move to a bigger market. Additionally, Green was facing allegations of sexual misconduct in the workplace and his wife threatened to leave him for that matter, with his way out being to move the team out of Minnesota.
Don’t forget that before Green was majority owner, the Gunds were exploring moving them to California before selling their stake to Norm and being granted an expansion on San Jose. The wheels of the move were already turning.
Brodie, love the video, but I have to fill you in on the North Stars. First, the Met wasn't a run-down arena during it era. In fact, the NHL did a poll asking the players which arena had the best ice. This poll was taken during the Stars first year in Dallas. The Met Center wasn't listed, and it still won the poll! Attendance was the main problem for the Northstars. After the first initial 5 years, attendance became a problem for the team. The original owners almost folded the team in the late 70s because attendance dropped so bad. Fans from St. Paul and it's suburbs abandoned the North Stars for 2 different versions of the WHA's St. Paul Fighting Saints team. The merger with the Cleveland Barons saved the North Stars. In the late 80s attendance had fallen so bad (they were dead last in attendance in 89-90 season) and the Metropolitan Sports Commission, who owned the Met Center (they fleeced it from the original owners), wouldn't spend a penny on renovations. So the Gund Bros planned on moving them to San Jose, but Lou Nanne (team president and a horrible GM) & the Blackhawks owner came up with a deal to keep the North Stars in MN. Thanks to the North Stars getting hot in the 2nd half of the 90-91 season AND a special season ticket promo for the remainder of that season and the next season where if you bought 2 season tickets you'd get a 3rd seat for free, attendance jumped. Again, the Sports Commision wouldn't spend a penny on renovations for the Met. So Norm Green spent $20 million of his own money renovating the Met two years before he moved them to Dallas. The team stunk again and attendance plummeted again. The Target Center, T-WOLVES owners & the Sports Commision wouldn't help the North Stars with a move to Target Center. It wasn't just Coke or Pepsi. It was also McDonald's vs. Burger King. The T-Wolves original owners originally owned the Target Center before they went broke; they said the Northstars would have to negotiate their sponser deals with the companies who sponsored the T-Wolves. It's kind of hard to negotiate a sponsorship deal when the company you are negotiating with knows you have to deal with them and not their competitors. The deal was unworkable for the Northstars (Similar to how they didn't help the Winnipeg Jets move to Minneapolis a couple years later and the Jets ended up in AZ) and the Civic Center in St. Paul (future site of the Xcel Center) was terrible for hockey. The real blame goes to the Minneapolis Sport Commision and the fair weather fans in the Twin Cities, who only showed up when the team was good. And there's proof of that in the facts that the T-Wolves almost moved to New Orleans because the original owners went broke and the Minnesota Twins, drawing fewer fans than the little independent St. Paul Saints baseball team in the late 90s, were almost contracted. That is how the so-called "State of Hockey" lost its NHL team to Texas.
Making a deal with another city then packing and sneaking the team out of town in the middle of the night like a carny has to be top 5, right? I guess not.
@@davidlafleche1142Yup. The eminent domain claim likely wouldn’t have held up in court, but the team would have been tied up in court for years, and it would have been worse for the NFL than the Colts relocating.
A stadium is not a private enterprise if the stadium is owned by the city or a corporation (stadium authority) run by the city where the team is just a tenant. An example of this is Detroit. The first two stadiums (Comerica Park and Ford Field) are owned by Detroit/Wayne County Stadium Authority and lease the stadiums to Tigers and Lions. Little Caesars Arena is owned by the city of Detroit, but this is a bit different. Most of the money that went into its construction was paid for by the owner of the Red Wings (Illitch Holdings). but Detroit owns it because the Red Wings did not buy the land. Another division of Illitch Holdings, Olympia Entertainment manages the facility. The Red Wings do lease the stadium from the city's Downtown Development Authority (DDA) and the Detroit Pistons sublease the stadium from the Red Wings. These examples are probably one of the few times where public funds used to build stadiums worked to the advantage of a city/county. Not only did they get to keep baseball and hockey downtown, but the deals brought the football and basketball clubs back to the city. Revenue for the city has gone up since their return and with the three venues being within blocks of each other has helped out. I haven't lived around there in nearly 27 years, but it is noticeable when you visit.
Stadiums actually payback those bonds in their lifetime unlike those annual school bonds which are massive money pits and cost 5 times what a one time stadium bond cost.
Retro-fit doesn't do what they did to the Key Arena justice. They hoisted the roof off of the building, tore everything down underneath it, and built a new arena from scratch. Then placed the old roof back on. Other than the roof it's a whole new stadium with a really stupid name
I think the main problem with all these moves in the US is that American society as a whole accepts them. They might lose some fans, but they get new ones rather quickly in their new area. In Europe this doesn't work, clubs who move usually don't really get a new fan base here, so it's hardly done. The most recent example I know in Europe is in England: Wimbledon F.C. moving to Milton Keynes and renaming to MK Dons. Wimbledon F.C. was actually in Premier League until they were relegated in 2000 and then they applied to relocate in 2001 after not seeing a future in Wimbledon because of stadium issues. This application was granted in 2002 and they finally relocated in 2004 after being relegated again, to the 3rd-tier League One. They had big dreams to go back to the premier league. Instead they were soon relegated again to League Two, where they now play again after being promoted and relegated a few times. They never reached the Premier League, spent only 1 season in the 2nd tier Championship and never gained a fan base. So objectively, this move was a failure, like most other moves in Europe.
Same in some ways for the Memphis Grizzlies, the actual Grizzly Bear population is mostly Canada including the Vancouver area and Alaska, the only parts of the US that have them are Montana, Washington state across the border from Vancouver in the area north of Seattle, north Idaho near the Canadian border and a tiny bit of eastern Washington near where I live which borders north Idaho anyway, and in Yellowstone Park in the tri-state area where Montana,Wyoming and Idaho border each other. So in 4 states not including Alaska that are also nowhere near Tennessee. But its not as bad since the concept of a fierce Grizzly is easy enough to forgive that the place doesn't have any wild ones, just in the Memphis Zoo. Funny enough the map I was looking at for their range shows where they were estimated to have been right after the ice age too, and even then the closest their range was to Tennessee was the northern half of Kentucky, most of Missouri and extreme western Arkansas, but not Tennesee itself. Cali is known for nice beautiful lakes like up in the Tahoe area in the north part of the state but LA and Southern CA not so much.
California still has the seventh most lakes in the country at 3,000. So basically the Lakers moved from the Land of 10,000 lakes…to the Land of 3,000 Lakes.
I would’ve said Winnipeg to Phoenix. They left a traditional hockey market to try and make it work in the desert and it was one disaster after another until Winnipeg got the thrashers and as we sit today the Jets are back and hockey has left Arizona.
Problem is, St. Louis stole the Rams out of SoCal in the first place when that evil shrew Georgia moved them to her native city. NFL owners rejected the move before they were blackmailed into voting for it.
I would also add, even though I’m a Carolina Hurricanes fan, I would say moving the Hartford Whalers to Raleigh was a bad move because they could have worked with the city to build a new arena but the owners wanted to move the team to the booming Research Triangle Area instead.
The two Carolinas combined have a population of over 16 million which is about five times the population of Connecticut. Many people from Connecticut have relocated to the Raleigh-Durham area.
1000 percent wrong.. They tried for years to build something in Hartford did not get it down. Pretty sure Peter wanted to go to Columbus but it did not have a temp arena for him. Remember when the Pats used Hartford for a new stadium...
@@hornetfan10 NYC metro is within thre hours of Hartford, but NYC metro has three NHL teams. Also, Boston is about two hours from Hartford, but Boston has the Bruins. Thus, the Whalers were situated in a small state with no way to grow their fan base outside of their state. The Hurricanes are located as a the only team in two substantially more populous adjoining states (NC and SC), both states that are receiving many people moving from northern states and the Hurricanes are situated in a burgeoning metro area (Raleigh/Durham) noted as a particular haven for relocating northerners with many high-technology companies (Research Triangle Park).
For anyone who's interested, therr is a good documentary called the Grizzly Truth that covers the issues the Grizzlies faced in Vancouver. There were just too many factors outside the teams control rhat made relocation inevitable. I would love to have a team back on False Creek, and maybe if the team started on better footing things could have gone differently. I only really wish Memphis had not kept the Grizz name, so we could reclaim that should the winds shift back. Even with that said as a resident of the Vancouver area, Seattle needs the Sonics back first. Vancouver leaving was upsetting, Seattle leaving was tragic.
We are the only country where teams move. I’m also wondering why is it that American sports teams are so dependent on public money? I thought they were this huge money maker? They want fans to pay for the stadiums and also pay ridiculous ticket prices to actually go to games and use public services to secure those events. It’s bonkers.
Minnesotan here. Minnesota high school hockey is huge. (Think Texas high school football.) And the Univ. of Minnesota Golden Gophers are iconic; coach Herb Brooks stands with Bud Grant and Tom Kelly as state deities. (Think Bear Bryant and Alabama.) At the same time the North Stars were playing in Minneapolis (actually the suburb of Bloomington) across the river the Minnesota Fighting Saints were the local franchise of the World Hockey Association -- and they were more successful than the North Stars, winning more and drawing comparable attendance, though costs were so high they team was always in financial trouble. The team were mostly native Minnesotans and this was part of their appeal; they practically used the Univ. of Minnesota Golden Gophers as a farm club. After the WHA-NHL merger, with the Edmonton Oilers, Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques, and New England/Hartford Whalers becoming NHL franchises, I always regretted the Saints weren't brought in. I still believe Minnesota could have supported two NHL franchises, especially as the Saints and Stars would have been natural rivals between Minneapolis and Saint Paul.
@@heidi7151 I think it's because fans were true connoisseurs: Texans know good football and the Houston Oilers weren't it, and Minnesotans know good hockey and the North Stars (mostly) didn't make the grade.
@@jaykaufman9782 I've heard from the older folks that the Oilers lost half of their fans when owner Bud Adams fired Bum Philips. Then Adams asked for and received renovations for the Astrodome. Then they had the crazy 1992-93 fiascos: Buddy Ryan punching Kevin Gilbride during a national TV game, the huge playoff loss in Buffalo, the player who killed someone while drunk driving and jumped off a bridge (or something like that), threatening the players that they would all be cut if they didn't win a Super Bowl (and cutting them!), so a total tanking situation, thennn the owner asking for a whole new stadium after he defaced the Astrodome with new seats. All for the state that produces the most players and actually the city that produces the most players-having no NFL representation and no college team either. I guess it's supposed to be A&M (?) but players seem to go everywhere else. Houston also lost the WHA Aeros where Gordie Howe played late in his career, lost the AHL Aeros to Davenport Iowa (part of the WILD family) and lost out on numerous NHL expansion opportunities even though Atlanta crashed, Phoenix plays in a high school gym and San Jose plays half empty every game. Houston is about to pass Chicago in population. I'm not sure fans would support a team, but Houston has the 2nd most Fortune 500 companies after New York. Tickets will sell.
I was in a couple of those crowds at the Civic Center to watch the Fighting Saints while the North Stars were playing 15 minutes away in Bloomington to smaller crowds. The song and dance was always "Saint Paul can't support a major league team," but the Fighting Saints proved that wrong. They couldn't get an owner with enough money to make the team go, but attendance was never a problem. By the time the WHA folded and the teams you mention were taken into the NHL, the Saints were already gone. The North Stars' attendance was never great and too often poor, but the Wild have been playing to sellout and near-sellout crowds for 24 years. In Saint Paul, where all the real hockey fans are...
Oakland will live in Sports infamy forever, how do you lose every sports team and one team twice ???? Oakland Golden Seals 🏒 Oakland warriors 🏀 Oakland Athletics ⚾️ Oakland Raiders 🏈 twice Don’t think anyone ever goes back there
City of Seattle had the arena renovated in the mid-90's. So imagine the pushback and vitriol David Stern received a only a few years later over asking for another one.
Hey Brodie, you should do a top 5 of teams that were ready to move and were saved. Like SF to Tampa, Kings to Seattle , even Bob Lurie came in and bought the Giants in the 70s when they were talking about Toronto. Raiders proposed moves to Sacramento, Inglewood. I'm sure there are a ton of almost moves to put together a video. Thx
I would say the original Charlotte Hornets move to New Orleans was a bad one because you took a team that was in a very hot market with a passionate fan base and move them to a city that hasn’t really been as passionate about them as their previous city was for the team.
go look at the last 2 years of Hornets basketball in Charlotte. The passion was gone. The fans were pissed at ownership because of his sexual assualt trial, and not keeping stars like Zo, Glen Rice, Eddie Jones etc. Then George did not want to sell to Micahel Jordan in 99 because he wanted control of the basketball operations (which we can all debate if that was a good thing or not) and later sold to an Atlanta business man who was born in New Orleans. Ray Woolridge had no intention on keeping the Hornets in Charlotte. Plus they lied about their club seat numbers to get approval.
The Chargers is the worst in my opinion. The Spanos family would rather pay half a billion dollars to move to LA where no one wants them rather than have their own stadium in San Diego.
Their first year in existence they were in L.A. and moved to San Diego. So, they sort of moved back where they started. Not defending it, just pointing it out.
@@honolulublues5548 I think that's such a dumb statement people make. Technically on paper that is true, but it was clearly a temporary home while the AFL figured out where the team really should be. It's almost like claiming room 414 at the hospital where you were born was the first place you lived.
@@honolulublues5548 And yet really not that different. The obvious point was the team was temporary in LA when the AFL started. People just throw that out there to confuse the situation and try to show how smart they are.
For me Brodie the 1st was the California Golden seals left Oakland and moved to Cleveland, I feel in love with Hockey with the Seals even as bad as they Played, when the A's left it opened this wound again. Oakland deserves a Team. Always appreciate you Brodie keep up the great work, 100 thumbs up to you.
Had the Seals not made that trade with the Habs, they might still be here today. They would have Guy LeFleur and he would have been the star player an expansion team needs.
Fun Fact: The Golden Seals after moving to Cleveland are the last in America's big four sports to disband. Technically, they merged with the Minnesota North Stars, but they weren't sold, and they never played another game. Hard to even imagine today but in 1978 a pro team could just close up shop.
Breaking news: outside of San Francisco, California doesn't care enough about pro football to hold onto an nfl team, ESPECIALLY los Angeles. Who cares how big the market is if no one shows up? The chargers couldn't even fill a SOCCER STADIUM when they moved to LA a few years back. The West Coast bias here is obscene. Baltimore is #1 and everyone knows it.
Norm Green was looking for ANY excuse to leave Minnesota. The fact that the recently-opened Target Center was ready and waiting, which teams like the Nordiques, Jets, and Whalers didn't have, and Green chose against it because of a Coca-Cola/Pepsi sponsorship clash is just mind-boggling. It was also reported that he didn't want the team sharing a building with an NBA team, which is what the team has wound up doing since moving to Dallas.
The funny thing about the Los Angeles Rams is that’s not their original home they were the originally were the Cleveland Rams they moved to LA in 1945 or 46 while the Browns became the main team.
Because the city they moved to actually makes sense. Even more sense than where they left. It was just crummy the way it had to happen because of inept ownership.
@@dsarmy1 But Brodie Loves to bring up all the Negativity related to the once NHL Coyotes Hockey franchise. He recently ripped into the former Coyotes Owner for wanting to build an Arena in RENO, NV for His AHL Hockey team and Other Events on Property He already owns because the Guy requested City/County Tax Credits on Future Revenue that the Development will generate.
Because, as stupid as it is, they technically didn't move. "Technically" being the key word. On paper, the Coyotes are an inactive franchise who transferred all their players and personnel to a new expansion team in Utah
I disagree with the argument that LA should have an NFL team. For LA fans, the NFL is almost secondary to everything else. All we have to do is look at who's currently in the stands during Rams and Chargers home games: it's almost always the opposing team's fans occupying 50% or more of the seats. Yes, LA has a large media market, but it doesn't embrace the NFL at the same level as some of these other cities. St. Louis put their arms around the Rams, and they won a Super Bowl for that city in just their fourth year there. It wasn't lack of support that doomed the Rams. It was a greedy owner who just saw the LA market size and didn't consider football culture. Even after moving the Rams back to LA, Stan Kroenke was upset over the number of visiting fans at Rams games as if he was blind to this disparity in support.
I feel way more sorry for St. Louis Rams fans than their LA counterparts. They won a Super Bowl within 5 years of returning and are almost always outdrawn by the opposing team's fans.
Kind of an odd coincidence the Rams won the Superbowl 5 years after moving to St. Louis and then 5 years after moving back to LA, and even had another chance they lost in only 2 years after moving back. Funny enough the Rams first move to LA was in 1946 from Cleveland and they literally had just won the 1945 NFL Championship and then moved that off season. Sadly moving has been good luck for them because when they have stayed put they never won, until they moved and then moved back. And I say sadly because teams shouldn't be rewarded for bailing out on a loyal city but its worked both times for them success wise. I was a Sonics fan as a kid, they moved when I was 18 and I got to see them in a pre season game when they came to my city, Spokane, the main city on the other side of the state from Seattle, to play a game the season before their last in Seattle and that was the only time I got to see them. October 26,2006 where they beat the Warriors 111-107 in OT. Little did we know that was one of the last chances to ever see them, they did not come here for pre-season their final year. I was so happy when OKC lost those finals and I was a LeBron hater kind of, but I was a fan of his and the Heat for that Finals for sure.
4:26 - Speaking of confusion between MLB and NFL/AFL teams, history shows us the coexistence of the: New York Giants (probably the longest-lived confusion, which is why the phrase "New York Football Giants" exists) New York Yankees (short-lived) Cleveland Indians (often short-lived) Detroit Tigers Washington Senators (only one year as an NFL team) Cincinnati Reds Brooklyn Dodgers And there are probably more.
THANK YOU for including the North Stars. I wasn’t even North NEBULA Pokeshipper when the move happened (8 years before I was born), but I am STILL salty about the move, and STILL hate Norman Green.
The Dallas-Fort Worth metro area will soon surpass Chicago as the third-most populous metropolitan area in the USA. It definitely should have teams in all four major leagues.
@HighpointerGeocacher You won't hear anyone denying that, but did they really need to take the hockey team from Minnesota of all places? That would be like the Cowboys moving to Toronto (bigger than DFW) because they want a team.
Dallas should've been an expansion team instead of a relocation. BTW, I miss that North Stars logo. I remember there was talk of a Winter Classic or Stadium Series game in Minnesota versus Dallas, and somebody suggested Dallas wear North Star jerseys in that game. That would've been a great sight.
At least the Dallas stars have had success in Texas, winning a cup in 1999 and being a frequent contender. They also grew the game, as there’s now a thriving youth hockey and junior hockey scene in the Dallas area
Yep. That's why Brodie Brazil's analysis of moving the A's is historically incomplete. I lived in Kansas City most of the years when the team was there. One jerk owner (Charlie Finley) moved the team to Oakland and now another jerk owner (Fisher) has moved them out. Finley alienated everyone in K.C. wanting to move the team so badly and Oakland became the only place where he could go. There's a great video on TH-cam entitled "The Peculiar Story of the Kansas City Athletics" detailing what happened. Finley did develop a great A's team in the mid-70s which would have been much more enthusiastically received had they remained in Kansas City.
If the athletics end up staying in Sacramento, I hope they change their name to the Sacramento solons, in honor of the original baseball team that used to play there
Exactly, I get people are upset that a brand like the sonics is just non existent now, especially w Seattle being such a big hoops city. But let’s not act like the thunder aren’t one of the more recognizable brands in the league since ab 2009-2010. On top of that you won’t find many fan bases who care ab their team as much as we do here in okc.
Oklahoma takes too much pride in the team to not make it profitable. A football state no doubt. Plenty basketball heritage. Maybe an NHL team could work in the new arena. Fans would show regardless. Franchise was bought in ‘06 for $350 million. Worth $3.7 billion today. They’re trying to tell me that was a bad move
@@robertewalt7789 The team started off in the AFL as the Los Angeles Chargers a decade before the merger you spoke of. Then they moved to San Diego before moving back to LA 56 years later. It's funny how often that has happened in the NFL with the Raiders and Rams too in terms of going back to a city they moved away from. I've never seen that in any other major sport.
Canadian hockey fans have been complaining to Bettman to relocate or put an expansion team in Canada mostly Quebec City. And they’ve been commenting on the panthers to move there.
We don't even want the A's here in Vegas! The ownership has never even shown the ability to come up with the 800B they have to put up for their share of the stadium. Hopefully they just stay in Sacramento!!
And getting the Braves back won't be easy since the Raptors probably consider Buffalo their "territory." If I were to take a guess, Buffalo probably roots for the Nets or Cavaliers since Buffalo hates Boston, Philadelphia and the popular New York team almost as much as Toronto.
@@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 you'd think that but no. Buffalo is considered Knicks/Nets territory and those are the games that are broadcast here locally. The Raptors pretty much have zero presence here which is really a missed opportunity in my opinion. I am in the very small minority of people that roots for and drives to Toronto for Raptors games. I'm not saying people from Buffalo don't go to Raptors games, I"m sure a lot of them do, but they aren't rooting for the Raptors when they go there.
@@RalphBrighton - Buffalo and Toronto HATE each other! Ever seen those Bills games in Toronto ten years ago or so? And don't even get me started on Sabres vs. Leafs.
@@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 When I was a kid the Leafs weren't even in the same conference as the Sabres so I don't have the hatred for them as I do the Bruins, Habs or even the Senators. I also enjoy going to Blue Jays games.
@@RalphBrighton - They do now. And of course, Toronto was in the Campbell/Smythe due to too many Leastern Time Zone teams as usual. The San Jose's and Calgary's won't like hearing this, but New Jersey and Hartford deserve to be in the Campbell/West more than Detroit and Toronto.
Personally, I think if the NBA doesn't expand, then the New Orleans Pelicans should be relocated to Seattle to become the Sonics, and the Thunder could then be placed in the Southwest Division where they belong.
In Europe, promotion/relegation and small countries means there's nowhere else for a team to move to; England for example is the size of Alabama, and has 92 teams in the top four football divisions. Here, where we have a huge landmass and no pro/rel (the minor leagues are for reserve teams in the NHL and MLB), there will always be another viable market for a team to move to if a stadium can't be built. And with sports leagues here run by the owners (like the Board of Directors for a company), the other owners are certainly not going to stand in the way if one of them wants to move in search of more profit for himself, and by extension the rest of them.
I hate how much you can tell hes given a bunch of talking points and that he actually doesn’t really know what hes talking about. Why talk ball when dont know ball?
Kanasa City the most abandoned city. Scouts , A’s Basketball Royals , the Rams knew they made a mistake five minutes landing in St Louis. The sweater sales would have covered the cost of building a new stadium in LA. Rams moved allowed LA to be a Lakers town and basketball became king
@@timmanto1022 They wasted taxpayer money building a new arena in Kansas City's former downtown area which has yet to lure an NBA or NHL team even though they had an arena in another part of town which hosted the dramatic 1976 Republican Convention.
Seattle certainly got screwed by the Sonics leaving, but by any measure the move to OKC has worked for the franchise. The team has thrived on and off the court. The Thunder have been huge for OKC, which doesn't have any other big league sports teams. The city does a great job supporting the team, which has one of the best home crowds in the Association. Seattle deserves an NBA team. But for the franchise, OKC, and, yes, the NBA this move was a huge success.
The Hornets franchise should have just stayed permanently in OKC but the NBA wanted to be in New Orleans, especially after Hurricane Katrina ravaged that area. Since then, the Pelicans franchise has always been one of the lowest revenue teams & lowest home attendance since.
To be fair to the Rams they were not a good fit with Anaheim and having to be the little brothers to the LA Raiders gave them a much smaller market and having to share their stadium with the Angels didn't help. They're enjoying much more success in LA sharing an actual football stadium with the Chargers and watching the Raiders leave CA for LV made it even more profitable. Also to be fair we would rather have the Chargers than Plaschke in LA.
Not every home game feels like a Rams home game, however. Same thing with the Chargers. It’s almost like LA football fans like rooting for whatever teams they’ve followed for a long time outside of the city.
The rams were far more popular in ANAHEIM than in LA. And Angels stadium has always been a better venue that the coliseum. Wtf are you talking about 😂😂
Yeah, all of these are awful. Should not be a thing. An English football/soccer team moved 56 miles to a different town. 20+ years ago. And they're still disliked. It's happened once. This is one reason among many why I've lost any interest in "professional" sports in USA (yet, I still got this suggested video, for some reason). Soccer/football has its issues but my interest in "professional" USA sports is not coming back.
The Sonics should never have left Seattle; however, OKC should have received the team from New Orleans. The Big Easy doesn't have enough well-off people who can support both the Saints and Pelicans. The only reason New Orleans still has an NBA team is because David Stern felt sorry for the city after Katrina.
The Rams were the first major sports team in LA from the 1940s. Insane that they moved to STL. Sad how the Raiders have been mired in mediocrity for so many years especially for those of us who are old enough to still associate them with John Facenda and the Autumn Wind. Few teams in professional sports had a stronger team identity and brand. But IMHO the worst move of all time was Dodgers and Giants from New York something that would be inconceivable today given what those teams meant to the biggest MLB market in the country. LA and SF should have gotten expansion teams. The hate for both teams still lingers.
You left out the stupidest reason. The original Washington Senators were supposed to move to D C. Stadium in 1962. But, because the stadium was owned by the National Park Service, President Kennedy told the Senators that they had to agree to integrate the team and the stadium. Clark Griffith wanted to restrict black fans to the center field bleachers. The Redskins agreed, the Senators refused. Griffith moved the Senators to Minnesota and Washington got a weak expansion team. The sad part is that the 1965 World Series should have been in Washington.
It had to be Dwight Eisenhower, JFK's predecessor, who told the Senators they had to integrate. JFK didn't become president until 1961. The expansion Senators' first season was 1961, the season starting not quite three months after JFK took office.
Putting the Cleveland Browns and Brooklyn Dodgers in an "Honorable Mention" category in comparison to the Minnesota North Stars and Oakland A's is, for lack of a more gentle word coming to my mind at the moment, ridiculous. The Browns relocation was a gut punch that no one, even inside the ranks of NFL team ownership, saw coming; no one had any idea how bad a businessman (F)art Modell really was. The Dodgers relocation can be attributable to one, incredibly powerful, incredibly stubborn man named Robert Moses. Through various offices he held simultaneously, Moses wielded more power than NYC's mayor or even the state's Governor did when it came to matters of private or public development. Walter O'Malley put forth a plan to build a new stadium in Brooklyn, on the spot where the Nets arena sits today. Moses wouldn't even consider it, ultimately offering O'Malley one choice: move the team out of Brooklyn and into what became Shea Stadium, or go elsewhere. When Roz Wyman and the Los Angeles city council approached him with a deal he simply couldn't pass up? He and the team went west. By contrast, five years before they actually relocated the Minnesota North Stars were drowning in red ink; as you're aware, the San Jose Sharks owe their existence to how the NHL placated the Gunds and tried to keep a franchise in Minneapolis. The only problem was they turned that Minneapolis franchise over to Norm Green, who from day one began looking to move it himself. And the A's? Well, as much as I hate what has taken place there and sympathize with Oakland and its fans, they literally had more than a decade to reach some accommodation that would have kept the team there; and regardless of where you care to place the blame? The A's relocation won't have anywhere near the impact as the Browns and Dodgers moves did.
There's a great video on TH-cam entitled "Why the Dodgers Moved from Brooklyn to Los Angeles" which corresponds to what you stated. Robert Moses was car-centric jerk who would have covered New York City in freeways had he lived longer.
The North Stars deserve their place on here. Norm Green was enough of a POS to get that, even if the North Stars had their struggles. I do agree on the Browns tho, the A's have had forever to figure something out in Oakland and didn't
I’d argue the Dodgers to Los Angeles historically is the toughest and I say this as an LA fan. It was devastating to some people in Brooklyn AND Los Angeles.
@@AlexAcostaArt The Los Angeles Angels WERE ADDED as an expansion team in 1961 and they could have done the same thing with the PCL San Francisco Seals. MLB should have gone to the West Coast long before the Dodgers and Giants moved there.
Did this guy do any research at all before he made this video? Raiders left Oakland because the stadium (and the city) was a giant shit hole. Teams move because THEY CAN'T FILL THE STADIUMS!!!!! It's not that complicated to understand.
I'd say the Jets and Nordiques leaving was one of the worst relocations ever.The NHL Sunbelt expansion actually created a lot of resentment from Canadian hockey fans.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
*Some other videos you might like:*
Yankees fans get punishment after World Series Interference?
📺 th-cam.com/video/0HN2uGbFHxE/w-d-xo.html
Why are NBA teams shooting SO MANY three pointers?
📺 th-cam.com/video/uh85CuSbwXU/w-d-xo.html
San Jose Sharks: TWO Stanley Cups projected by EA Sports
📺 th-cam.com/video/YBgJsniOf3o/w-d-xo.html
Oakland Coliseum to host CRICKET in 2025?
📺 th-cam.com/video/DmbqC6G_2G0/w-d-xo.html
Abu Dhabi to get Las Vegas Sphere twin
📺 th-cam.com/video/WyQtH-CxXoI/w-d-xo.html
Steph Curry made Lakers Rookie Quincy Olivari cry
📺 th-cam.com/video/rdwkmMNQZ7A/w-d-xo.html
Here's how MLB could INSTANTLY improve postseason broadcasts
📺 th-cam.com/video/5M_5piWhtiw/w-d-xo.html
A's "saved" Dontrelle Willis [Let's Go Oakland E02]
📺 th-cam.com/video/v_ahDeN0p7U/w-d-xo.html
Brodie your right about San Diego even the AHL Gulls nearly sell out their games. It's a shame that the Chargers and Clippers left. The Pads have the city all to themselves.
Generally speaking, great video. Vancouver is a shit hole... their economy is tanking hard.
There's an old saying that ties into this video i heard from many people
Baseball went to hell the day the Dodgers left Brooklyn
@@wolfgamingnetwork3542 f*ck brooklyn Go Dodgers!
@@wongleebruce You’re actually wrong in this case and so is video. The Chargers move BACK to LA had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the fans came to games. It had everything to do with the team wanting and needing a new Stadium and those same fans you are praising voting down every motion to help the team build it. Even when the team said help us with this or we leave, the people still voted it down. They got what they asked for.
Moving the Colts from Baltimore to Indianapolis in the middle of the night on March 28, 1984 has to be number 1 sneakiest move of all time.
That was a cowardly move.
@@americasteam2112I mean the city was about to size part or the entire team with eminent domain, so I actually understand it
As bad as that was, what the Rams did to St. Louis was worse.
@@joeym5243 You mean seize?
When the city tried to sieze the team via eminent domain, that was the only move they had left.
Baltimore Colts…middle of the night, multiple tractor-trailers taking different routes to Indianapolis.
WINNER
We almost lost our Seahawks the same way. People were standing in front of the moving trucks to stop it. Finally, Paul Allen bought it on the condition that a new stadium would be built. He contributed part of the cost but also wanted to have local participation to show they still wanted the team. The rest is history. RIP Paul Allen.
They did it because the state legislature was going to allow the city to seize the team.
@@ChrisBakerauthor The NFL would have just given the owner an expansion team, he was just being difficult because he was always difficult. Memorial stadium was trash but the constant lying that "the team isnt going anywhere" is what really caused the bitterness.
A lot of people in Baltimore were actually uncomfortable with the idea of the Browns coming here until we were reassured the Browns would get the next expansion team within 5 years. Also Baltimore made sure that none of the Browns legacy came with the team because of how awful the theft of the colts history was. People in Baltimore who lived through that still hate Jim Irsay Sr. with a passion. He was an awful man.
I feel sorry for his son, because despite all the money his father must have made him absolutely miserable. People dont develop drug problems unless they have an inability to produce the chemicals in their brain to make them feel wellness, and when exposed to an external source they are unwilling to give it up and go back to the bleakness. Despite a life of material comfort Irsay Jr. has had many struggles and I would have to attribute that to the treatment he received from his alcoholic contrarian father.
@@booradley6832 I don't care if you think he was an "an awful man" or whatever. The bottom line is that the city threatened to take a man's property, and he chose the best option that was available to him. He took his property outside of the jurisdiction that wanted to take it.
Most of your response is totally irrelevant to the issue.
Always thought the NFL used the absence of a team in Los Angeles to allow several teams to leverage the threat to move to LA in getting new stadiums in their existing cities.
I absolutely agree with you. The Vikings, forty-niners, Colts, Seahawks and Cardinals all blackmail stadiums by threatening to move to Los Angeles
Unfortunately. Glad the Rams are back home. Stan righted a major wrong.
That’s exactly right
As well as privately financing his own NFL stadium and his team winning the SB LVI more than 32 months ago.
@@Scott-vk4jvStan Kroenke tanked the Rams in St. Louis and turned a competitive team into a perennial basement dweller for a decade plus only to justify wanting to move the team due to bad attendance. Don’t forget how he lied and claimed he was willing to work with the city of St. Louis only to have already secured a move after St. Louis had purchased land for a new stadium. Stan is lucky St. Louis settled the lawsuit against him as from what I understand the firm representing St. Louis had a slam dunk case that if it went to trial would have cost Stan Kroenke over a billion dollars although 750 million is still a lot for a settlement. You think Kroenke righted a wrong by bringing the Rams back to LA, however in the end Stan could give two f*cks about the fans in LA or in any of the cities where he owns teams as he has proven that he believes fans and teams are only there to make him money and success only comes down to how much money he can extract from the team and the fan base. Just ask Arsenal fans how much they adore Stan Kroenke lol.
When teams relocate, I feel that it should be mandatory to do what Charlotte Hornets, Cleveland Browns, and San Jose Earthquakes did. That is, you leave the namd AND history and trophies behind in the city that you came from. You can take your players and front office because they come and go anyway, but those titles and that historu do not belong in another city imo.
No no no! History isn't arbitrary. History is based on fact. The current Cleveland team was a whole new team in 1999, falsely claiming to be the team that departed the city, 3 years earlier!
This one can be argued either way. It's not fair to the fans who've lost their team, but then it is a different organization that's taken the place of a departed team. To me, the best answer is for both the departing team and a succeeding team with the same nickname is NOT to claim any history of the team which has moved.
Teams move. I think uniforms are fine if they decide to change the name in the new city. If Montreal gets another baseball team, they should be able to call themselves the Expos. Nationals shouldn't own it. But it's still a different franchise. But since the Colts kept their name, sorry Baltimore you can't get the Colts back.
Thanks for mentioning an MLS team
The Hornets didn't leave their name behind. They kept were using it in New Orleans for over 10 years before the new owner rebranded them.
I don't totally agree with the premise. A lot of historic teams have moved around, especially in baseball. Heck, the Athletics are waiting on their fourth home right now.
The New Orleans Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music.
The Lakers moved to LA where there are no lakes
What do you mean? Salt Lake City has lots of music and concerts.
@ It's a quote from a comedy movie that spoofs on this same topic.
The Jazz and Lakers must not have been able to come up with new names when they moved
When the Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary, still the Flames
Left out Minnesota North Stars owner was taken to court by one of his employees for sexual assault, it became a grudge move after that.
Norm Greed was not a good guy to those ladies.
Any hockey team from Canada or border states
You mean Bob Irsay? That move wasn't his fault. Look up the name *Hyman Pressman.* That's who's responsible for the Colts' relocation to Indy.
The sexual harassment (it wasn't assault) was pathetic excuse. The Northstars were on life support by the time Norm Green arrived.
The original owners almost folded the team in the late 70s because attendance dropped horribly. The merger with the Cleveland Barons saved the North Stars. In the late 80s attendance had fallen so bad (they were dead last in attendance in 89-90 season) and the Metropolitan Sports Commission, who owned the Met Center (they fleeced it from the original owners), wouldn't spend a penny on renovations. So the Gund Bros planned on moving them to San Jose, but Lou Nanne & the Blackhawks owner came up with a deal to keep the North Stars in MN.
Thanks to the North Stars getting hot in the 2nd half of the 90-91 season AND a special season ticket promo for the remainder of that season and the next season where if you bought 2 season tickets you'd get a 3rd seat for free, attendance jumped. Again the Sports Commision wouldn't spend a penny on renovations for the Met. So Norm Green spent $20 million of his own money renovating the Met.
The team stunk again and attendance plummeted again. The Target Center, T-WOLVES owners & the Sports Commision wouldn't help the North Stars with a move to Target Center. The deal was unworkable for the Northstars (Similar to how they didn't help the Winnipeg Jets move to Minneapolis a couple years later) and the Civic Center was a terrible arena for hockey.
The real blame goes to the Sport Commision and the fair weather fans, who only showed up when the team was good. And there's proof of that in the FACTS that the T-Wolves almost move to New Orleans because the original owners went broke and the Minnesota Twins drawing less fans than the St. Paul Saints in the late 90s and almost being contracted.
The North Stars played in a converted barn......,
I wish all municipalities would pass that law that no public money should be spent on any stadiums.
The original *Winnipeg Jets* relocating to Phoenix was a mistake 🤦🏼♂️
No it absolutely wasn’t. Winnipeg still faces a lot of uncertainty in the future
@@SaintGBar22 you're dumb jets have the richest owner in the league and aren't going anywhere stfu 🤡
@@SaintGBar22they really don’t, there was one off hand comment the media ran with last year but that’s it. They’re partially funded by the richest man in Canada, they’ll be fine
@@SaintGBar22 Uh yes it was. There's no uncertainly about the Jets staying in Winnipeg. I live there. If you knew anything about the owners of the Winnipeg Jets True North is basically buying up every real estate spot in downtown Winnipeg that exists are are owned by the richest family in Canada. The franchise value has increased 5 fold in the 10 years they have been back. Who cares if they lose a few million a year. The Thomson's have made 800 million on the franchise in increased value in 10 years. FYI, how are the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes doing these days? ROFL
Yet they were there for 28 seasons
The Tennessee Titans having the gall to wear the Houston Oilers uniforms pisses me off...and I'm not even from Texas.
1997-98 they were the tennessee oilers. That is what i say when i hear people say that
😂😂😂😂
I'm from Connecticut and though the team moved when I was very young and I never got to see them, it pisses me off when I see the Carolina Hurricanes put on Whalers nights in a city the Whalers never played in
Huh? What else would they wear? 🤔
@berranari1 Who the Hurricanes? Wear their own damn uniforms and stop putting on Whalers nights. They're the only team in the league that does that cash grab crap. Avs don't dress as the Nordiques anymore. Jets don't put on Thrashers nights. Devils never put on Rockies or KC Scouts nights
The Rams didn’t leave because the dome wasn’t “fit” they would have left if it was a top ten facility. They left to make more money. In fact the city of St Louis was ready to build them another stadium while they were still paying off the dome.
St. Louis will always have The Greatest Show On Turf season.
Big miss in this video to not mention the stadium plan in place in STL and Kronke and the NFL ignoring their own relocation guidelines and losing a big lawsuit about it. The Rams had the worst record in history the last five years in STL and the city still supported them. It was a cash grab leaving STL and that is it.
@@mjkcm4you guys are hilarious man lol. never ever talk about how frontiere did rams fans in 94
She purposely let team go bad, if it recall back to backe 1-15 seasons. As for St. Louis. Give them the bird. Fuckwods.@@immolationliquidations
@@immolationliquidations yeah but that move followed NFL relocation guidelines. She couldn’t get a stadium deal in LA and St Louis was already building one. Stan Kroenke never negotiated with the city of St Louis in good faith, and broke the lease the first opportunity he got.
The sheer amount of ignorance regarding why the Expos became the Nationals is unbelievable, because Montreal was a hot bed for baseball, cause the Expos drew very respectable attendance figures right up until the franchise was fucked over by Bud Selig, Jeffrey Loria and the rest of Major League Baseball.
The 1994-95 strike hurt the Expos' attendance, then Bud and MLB let Loria get the team and Loria finished them off. Then Bud and MLB had the absolute gall to let Loria buy the Marlins in the three-team deal with the Red Sox and Expos. Then in Miami, Loria truly showed that he was the worst sports owner of all time.
Olympic Stadium was also a money-guzzling disaster. The stadium's total cost exceeded a billion for something built to 1970s standards. Ouch.
Watching from Vancouver Brodie. Thanks for the shout out. NBA would thrive here. The original Grizzlies had incompetent management and missed on a lot of picks. Very first high pick Big Country Reeves was a bust. The team never got its legs under it. Basketball is huge in 🇨🇦. We should get another team and also in Seattle. Natural rivalry.
There is a reason why outside of Hockey there are only pro teams in Ontario. Moving more teams to Canada would hurt US ratings for the NBA impacting their future negotiations. You also have the exchange rate as well. Even the NHL isn’t working to get a US team to Quebec city because of these factors and QC having an NHL ready arena.
Another reason the Grizzlies left is that the NBA wouldn't let them or the Raptors have the #1 overall pick the first three years after they entered the league.
Basketball was invented by a Canadian
I'm a Pens fan, the North Stars got hosed after that Cinderella Finals run in '91. Undoing the Seals/Barons-North Stars merger to create the Sharks was unfair. The Sharks owners should have just been given a full expansion team on their own.
Though the original Seals/barons owners did get fucked over by getting hostilely taken over by someone else and watching their team bring run into the ground and then dismantled
I think the North Stars/Sharks dispersal draft is overhyped as a cause for the former's demise. Outside of Irbe, no one really significant was involved in that draft. Just a bunch of guys who would max out at 200 games as journeymen in the NHL. The team that really suffered from that was the Kalamazoo Wings, and arguably the IHL as a whole.
It's nice to here somebody that knows a lot about the history of the North Stars/Dallas Stars. As a fan of the Dallas Stars (Went to the first game in on October 5th, 1993) I have been to many a game of the Stars. I worked the last 5 years at the American Airline Area and I am now a full season ticket holder to the Stars. Thank God they moved here in 1993!
If they kept the same team together, due to the chemistry they had, I have no doubt they finish top 5 in 1992. They were I think the 6th best team after Christmas in 1990, and cooked the league in the playoffs. They kept most of their team, but losing players to the sharks did really hurt them
Hey, Brodie Brazil, You stated at the 4 minute mark that it was confusing for St. Louis to have an MLB team and an NFL team with the same name. Not so. I grew up in St. Louis. That both teams were the Cardinals gave the city an identity and a sense of pride. One played in the summer; one in the fall and winter. Besides, everyone called the NFL team the "Big Red." Anyone can distinguish between baseball and football. What's so confusing? Ain't nothing confusing about that.
I agree. When I was there, I would also hear the baseball Cardinals often referred to as the 'Redbirds.. The football team was only referred to as only the Cardinals.
And the Cardinals started in Chicago.
This is just a reminder that there is no Jazz in Utah, no trolleys to dodge or lakes in LA, no Grizzlies in Memphis.
We have 2 grizzlies in the zoo
There is plenty of traffic to dodge in L.A. and inside of L.A. County, there is a town called Lake Los Angeles.
Winnipeg Jets to Arizona 😂 was also a bad one technically
@@bostonwarrior4824 it was but at least Winnipeg has a team again
Maybe it wasn’t a bad thing, Jets 2.0 has been more successful than both the original Jets and the Coyotes
Emphasized by Winnipeg getting another team 15 years later, and ironically Arizona going to Utah.
@@TOTN17It was 15 years before a team came back and only because of a move by the Atlanta Thrashers
I agree
Dallas missed an opportunity not calling themselves the Lone Stars...
Dallas Lone Stars goes pretty hard!
That's true, but the Stars work too. Regardless, the name heavily implies Texas.
Only one man would DARE give me the raspberry…
I understand why that could work, but Lone Stars is a hard name for a team sport.
@troybaxter the north stars changed their uniforms a yr before the moved........he was planning it all along and a crook.....
The Stars have now played more seasons in Dallas than they have in Minnesota. Feel old yet?
Go Stars!
As a Vegas resident, I hope the A’s relocation falls through.
What if it doesn’t?
Then may God have mercy on us all…
I don't think you have to worry about Salt Lake City or Sacramento A's. 🤫
#RootedInOakland
San diego gulls need a new arena bad
Another uninformed person blaming St. Louis for the Rams leaving and not the NFL/Stan Kroenke exclusively.
Dean Spanos can eff all the way off.
The Chargers are the worst one by far. The Rams was probably the most despicable but at least LA would welcome the Rams. LA does not want the Chargers and their existence in LA is a disgrace. Spanos should be removed by the league.
@@Julian_Wallis Also St. Louis was awarded $800 million from a lawsuit; from the Rams and the NFL because of how all of this went down.
Spanos is such a loser and no matter where the team is, it will always lose until they sell the team.
Obligatory FU Spanos
That chargers move is one od the worst, majority of the fan base is still in san diego
Moving the Whalers to that hockey hotbed that is Greensboro followed by Raleigh was a joke.
Northeast was oversaturated. With that said, get rid of the Islanders and especially the Devils, then I think Hartford would be okay.
@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 I'd go with just the Devils. If they never left Colorado then as a bonus the Nordiques might still be around today as well. Course the eventual MLB team that came around would need a different name.
@@41Brother2Why? St. Louis had NFL and MLB franchises with the same mascot. New York (Giants) did as well.
@@zlinedavid Because having 2 teams in the same city with the same name is a thing of the past.
The immediate aftermath of the Ravens becoming relevant and stable, winning the Super Bowl and the expansion Browns being what they were. Especially knowing they'd be gone before the season ended in 1995. (similar to the A's)
I don't know. Probably not just an honorable mention imo. That really sucked for Browns fans
Cleveland can suck it.
People always get this mixed up because the situation was such a mess the Browns never relocated they tried to Baltimore was awarded a new team and Cleveland went inactive for a few seasons before coming back still the Same Franchise
@@Amyisnthere-u9i Technically, yes. But in reality, no. The Ravens are the original Browns, and the current Browns are the Cleveland Browns 2.0.
Brodie, the problem with the Chargers is they did not operate in good faith to keep the team in San Diego. Myself and others had submitted stadium plans to keep the team in San Diego and we were given the run around by Mark Fabiani, who's Dean Spanos attorney. This is the same lawyer that got Clinton out of I did not have s*x with that woman. He's the master of the spin. The team has arguably had their sights set on LA since at least 2010.
My stadium plan was the Phase 4 Convention Center Expansion & Stadium which expanded the convention center and built the stadium on the bayfront. Would have been great for conventions like Comic Con, that could have utilized that space.
The fact that there's still people that believe that San Diego did not care about the Chargers is insane.
It's like saying Oakland didn't care about the A's.
nonononono, there's a difference between not supporting a team, and not supporting an owner
You are right, I think a new stadium in Mission Valley would have passed but Spanos wanted out and knew the downtown plan would fail so he could move to LA. I found it a huge betrayal.
I went to college with Mark. He can be a snake.
There were not enough charger fans in the city of san diego to pass a stadium bill! The charger fans live in other shit hole cities in san diego county or in orange county! But not the city! The county is not the city! You dont get to vote! Now we gotta get rid of the loser padres next! They are just as much a disgrace to san diego as the chargers!
As a Bills fan, I truly miss having the Chargers in San Diego. It was an outstanding destination game and mini vacation experience.
If Los Angeles was able to “Re-Ram” I don’t know why they couldn’t “Re-Raider” when both the Raiders and Chargers were moving in the same year. The L.A. Raiders actually had some great success and history in L.A.
Mark Davis didn’t have the money to build a new stadium in Los Angeles and Stan Kroenke didn’t want him as a Roommate.
The NFL did not want to help Al Davis.
I think Raiders is doing much better in Vegas than the Chargers are doing in LA.
They're both terrible - bad owners move and don't hire good GMs.
Well the chargers were an l.a team 😅 but didn't have the fan base so they left to San Diego
Since the Chargers were hellbent on leaving San Diego, they should have gone to Vegas while the Raiders should have gone back to LA as I think the Raiders are far more popular in LA then the Chargers
Agreed or raiders to San Diego. La doesn't give a shit about the chargers. Ultimately though until spanos sells to the team they will always lose.
Spanos wasn't capable of negotiating his own stadium deal in Las Vegas, which is why he got first dibs on joining the Rams.
Kronkee wanted to be THE TEAM in LA
The NFL did not want to help Al Davis
It's funny the first year in the AFL the Chargers play in LA.
The cola wars really had no effect on the North Stars move, as the Met Center switched from Pepsi to Coke the final 2 years the team played there. The biggest reasons were due to the Minnesota Sports Commission’s failure to create a plan for a new arena and Norm Green’s desire to move to a bigger market. Additionally, Green was facing allegations of sexual misconduct in the workplace and his wife threatened to leave him for that matter, with his way out being to move the team out of Minnesota.
Omg men.
Don’t forget that before Green was majority owner, the Gunds were exploring moving them to California before selling their stake to Norm and being granted an expansion on San Jose. The wheels of the move were already turning.
Brodie, love the video, but I have to fill you in on the North Stars.
First, the Met wasn't a run-down arena during it era. In fact, the NHL did a poll asking the players which arena had the best ice. This poll was taken during the Stars first year in Dallas. The Met Center wasn't listed, and it still won the poll!
Attendance was the main problem for the Northstars. After the first initial 5 years, attendance became a problem for the team. The original owners almost folded the team in the late 70s because attendance dropped so bad. Fans from St. Paul and it's suburbs abandoned the North Stars for 2 different versions of the WHA's St. Paul Fighting Saints team. The merger with the Cleveland Barons saved the North Stars. In the late 80s attendance had fallen so bad (they were dead last in attendance in 89-90 season) and the Metropolitan Sports Commission, who owned the Met Center (they fleeced it from the original owners), wouldn't spend a penny on renovations. So the Gund Bros planned on moving them to San Jose, but Lou Nanne (team president and a horrible GM) & the Blackhawks owner came up with a deal to keep the North Stars in MN.
Thanks to the North Stars getting hot in the 2nd half of the 90-91 season AND a special season ticket promo for the remainder of that season and the next season where if you bought 2 season tickets you'd get a 3rd seat for free, attendance jumped. Again, the Sports Commision wouldn't spend a penny on renovations for the Met. So Norm Green spent $20 million of his own money renovating the Met two years before he moved them to Dallas.
The team stunk again and attendance plummeted again. The Target Center, T-WOLVES owners & the Sports Commision wouldn't help the North Stars with a move to Target Center. It wasn't just Coke or Pepsi. It was also McDonald's vs. Burger King. The T-Wolves original owners originally owned the Target Center before they went broke; they said the Northstars would have to negotiate their sponser deals with the companies who sponsored the T-Wolves. It's kind of hard to negotiate a sponsorship deal when the company you are negotiating with knows you have to deal with them and not their competitors. The deal was unworkable for the Northstars (Similar to how they didn't help the Winnipeg Jets move to Minneapolis a couple years later and the Jets ended up in AZ) and the Civic Center in St. Paul (future site of the Xcel Center) was terrible for hockey.
The real blame goes to the Minneapolis Sport Commision and the fair weather fans in the Twin Cities, who only showed up when the team was good. And there's proof of that in the facts that the T-Wolves almost moved to New Orleans because the original owners went broke and the Minnesota Twins, drawing fewer fans than the little independent St. Paul Saints baseball team in the late 90s, were almost contracted.
That is how the so-called "State of Hockey" lost its NHL team to Texas.
Making a deal with another city then packing and sneaking the team out of town in the middle of the night like a carny has to be top 5, right? I guess not.
Remember the Baltimore Colts owner very well. Glad you remember.
The state passed legislation to steal the team from Irsay by eminent domain, so he escaped before they could do that.
Passing a law to steal the team is worse.
@@davidlafleche1142Yup. The eminent domain claim likely wouldn’t have held up in court, but the team would have been tied up in court for years, and it would have been worse for the NFL than the Colts relocating.
Initiative 91 should be adopted by all major cities. Public monies shouldn't be taken and spent to fund private enterprise.
A stadium is not a private enterprise if the stadium is owned by the city or a corporation (stadium authority) run by the city where the team is just a tenant. An example of this is Detroit. The first two stadiums (Comerica Park and Ford Field) are owned by Detroit/Wayne County Stadium Authority and lease the stadiums to Tigers and Lions. Little Caesars Arena is owned by the city of Detroit, but this is a bit different. Most of the money that went into its construction was paid for by the owner of the Red Wings (Illitch Holdings). but Detroit owns it because the Red Wings did not buy the land. Another division of Illitch Holdings, Olympia Entertainment manages the facility. The Red Wings do lease the stadium from the city's Downtown Development Authority (DDA) and the Detroit Pistons sublease the stadium from the Red Wings.
These examples are probably one of the few times where public funds used to build stadiums worked to the advantage of a city/county. Not only did they get to keep baseball and hockey downtown, but the deals brought the football and basketball clubs back to the city. Revenue for the city has gone up since their return and with the three venues being within blocks of each other has helped out. I haven't lived around there in nearly 27 years, but it is noticeable when you visit.
Stadiums actually payback those bonds in their lifetime unlike those annual school bonds which are massive money pits and cost 5 times what a one time stadium bond cost.
Retro-fit doesn't do what they did to the Key Arena justice.
They hoisted the roof off of the building, tore everything down underneath it, and built a new arena from scratch. Then placed the old roof back on. Other than the roof it's a whole new stadium with a really stupid name
I think the main problem with all these moves in the US is that American society as a whole accepts them. They might lose some fans, but they get new ones rather quickly in their new area.
In Europe this doesn't work, clubs who move usually don't really get a new fan base here, so it's hardly done.
The most recent example I know in Europe is in England: Wimbledon F.C. moving to Milton Keynes and renaming to MK Dons. Wimbledon F.C. was actually in Premier League until they were relegated in 2000 and then they applied to relocate in 2001 after not seeing a future in Wimbledon because of stadium issues. This application was granted in 2002 and they finally relocated in 2004 after being relegated again, to the 3rd-tier League One.
They had big dreams to go back to the premier league. Instead they were soon relegated again to League Two, where they now play again after being promoted and relegated a few times. They never reached the Premier League, spent only 1 season in the 2nd tier Championship and never gained a fan base. So objectively, this move was a failure, like most other moves in Europe.
The Minneapolis Lakers moving to LA but not changing the name is weird, what with LA not being known for its lakes.
Same in some ways for the Memphis Grizzlies, the actual Grizzly Bear population is mostly Canada including the Vancouver area and Alaska, the only parts of the US that have them are Montana, Washington state across the border from Vancouver in the area north of Seattle, north Idaho near the Canadian border and a tiny bit of eastern Washington near where I live which borders north Idaho anyway, and in Yellowstone Park in the tri-state area where Montana,Wyoming and Idaho border each other. So in 4 states not including Alaska that are also nowhere near Tennessee. But its not as bad since the concept of a fierce Grizzly is easy enough to forgive that the place doesn't have any wild ones, just in the Memphis Zoo. Funny enough the map I was looking at for their range shows where they were estimated to have been right after the ice age too, and even then the closest their range was to Tennessee was the northern half of Kentucky, most of Missouri and extreme western Arkansas, but not Tennesee itself. Cali is known for nice beautiful lakes like up in the Tahoe area in the north part of the state but LA and Southern CA not so much.
Memphis Grizzlies were the name of a WFL franchise in 1974 and 1975, when the team moved that name could work again
LA Tar Pits
@@RobotWillieAnd the serious lack of a jazz scene in Salt Lake City as opposed to New Orleans.
California still has the seventh most lakes in the country at 3,000.
So basically the Lakers moved from the Land of 10,000 lakes…to the Land of 3,000 Lakes.
I would’ve said Winnipeg to Phoenix. They left a traditional hockey market to try and make it work in the desert and it was one disaster after another until Winnipeg got the thrashers and as we sit today the Jets are back and hockey has left Arizona.
Yet the Rams have no home field advantage in Los Angeles. St. Louis had a real passion for the Rams
@@cmbox1184 the local ratings for LA rams sports show dwarf the population of St Louis.
Problem is, St. Louis stole the Rams out of SoCal in the first place when that evil shrew Georgia moved them to her native city. NFL owners rejected the move before they were blackmailed into voting for it.
YES!! THANK YOU!!!
The Rams are fine as long as the 49ers aren't in town. Those games are a little embarrassing.
Look at the large crowd St. Louis gets for the UFL. It's a football city that's been treated badly by two different NFL ownerships.
The Dodgers leaving Brooklyn was an obscenity.
Great video Brodie, I learned a lot from this video
I would also add, even though I’m a Carolina Hurricanes fan, I would say moving the Hartford Whalers to Raleigh was a bad move because they could have worked with the city to build a new arena but the owners wanted to move the team to the booming Research Triangle Area instead.
The two Carolinas combined have a population of over 16 million which is about five times the population of Connecticut. Many people from Connecticut have relocated to the Raleigh-Durham area.
I just can't see this as a bad move. This was actually a GREAT move!!
1000 percent wrong.. They tried for years to build something in Hartford did not get it down. Pretty sure Peter wanted to go to Columbus but it did not have a temp arena for him. Remember when the Pats used Hartford for a new stadium...
@@HighpointerGeocacher pretty sure the population is much greater within a 3 hour drive of Hartford
@@hornetfan10 NYC metro is within thre hours of Hartford, but NYC metro has three NHL teams. Also, Boston is about two hours from Hartford, but Boston has the Bruins.
Thus, the Whalers were situated in a small state with no way to grow their fan base outside of their state. The Hurricanes are located as a the only team in two substantially more populous adjoining states (NC and SC), both states that are receiving many people moving from northern states and the Hurricanes are situated in a burgeoning metro area (Raleigh/Durham) noted as a particular haven for relocating northerners with many high-technology companies (Research Triangle Park).
For anyone who's interested, therr is a good documentary called the Grizzly Truth that covers the issues the Grizzlies faced in Vancouver.
There were just too many factors outside the teams control rhat made relocation inevitable.
I would love to have a team back on False Creek, and maybe if the team started on better footing things could have gone differently. I only really wish Memphis had not kept the Grizz name, so we could reclaim that should the winds shift back.
Even with that said as a resident of the Vancouver area, Seattle needs the Sonics back first. Vancouver leaving was upsetting, Seattle leaving was tragic.
We are the only country where teams move. I’m also wondering why is it that American sports teams are so dependent on public money? I thought they were this huge money maker? They want fans to pay for the stadiums and also pay ridiculous ticket prices to actually go to games and use public services to secure those events. It’s bonkers.
Montreal Expos was considered the Anglos sport. So no government support
Agree. As a lifelong fan, the relocation to DC took me away from MLB for 15 years.
Molson Park would have been great if it ever got built
@the6ixgardener321 👍
Ownership running the team into the ground didn't help either
@@kevincanning3051Yes. I had to wait for Loria/Samson to sell in Miami before I could follow the Marlins.
Minnesotan here. Minnesota high school hockey is huge. (Think Texas high school football.) And the Univ. of Minnesota Golden Gophers are iconic; coach Herb Brooks stands with Bud Grant and Tom Kelly as state deities. (Think Bear Bryant and Alabama.) At the same time the North Stars were playing in Minneapolis (actually the suburb of Bloomington) across the river the Minnesota Fighting Saints were the local franchise of the World Hockey Association -- and they were more successful than the North Stars, winning more and drawing comparable attendance, though costs were so high they team was always in financial trouble. The team were mostly native Minnesotans and this was part of their appeal; they practically used the Univ. of Minnesota Golden Gophers as a farm club. After the WHA-NHL merger, with the Edmonton Oilers, Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques, and New England/Hartford Whalers becoming NHL franchises, I always regretted the Saints weren't brought in. I still believe Minnesota could have supported two NHL franchises, especially as the Saints and Stars would have been natural rivals between Minneapolis and Saint Paul.
yup and Houston lost an NFL team. WTF
@@heidi7151 I think it's because fans were true connoisseurs: Texans know good football and the Houston Oilers weren't it, and Minnesotans know good hockey and the North Stars (mostly) didn't make the grade.
@@jaykaufman9782 I've heard from the older folks that the Oilers lost half of their fans when owner Bud Adams fired Bum Philips. Then Adams asked for and received renovations for the Astrodome.
Then they had the crazy 1992-93 fiascos: Buddy Ryan punching Kevin Gilbride during a national TV game, the huge playoff loss in Buffalo, the player who killed someone while drunk driving and jumped off a bridge (or something like that), threatening the players that they would all be cut if they didn't win a Super Bowl (and cutting them!), so a total tanking situation, thennn the owner asking for a whole new stadium after he defaced the Astrodome with new seats.
All for the state that produces the most players and actually the city that produces the most players-having no NFL representation and no college team either. I guess it's supposed to be A&M (?) but players seem to go everywhere else.
Houston also lost the WHA Aeros where Gordie Howe played late in his career, lost the AHL Aeros to Davenport Iowa (part of the WILD family) and lost out on numerous NHL expansion opportunities even though Atlanta crashed, Phoenix plays in a high school gym and San Jose plays half empty every game. Houston is about to pass Chicago in population. I'm not sure fans would support a team, but Houston has the 2nd most Fortune 500 companies after New York. Tickets will sell.
I was in a couple of those crowds at the Civic Center to watch the Fighting Saints while the North Stars were playing 15 minutes away in Bloomington to smaller crowds. The song and dance was always "Saint Paul can't support a major league team," but the Fighting Saints proved that wrong. They couldn't get an owner with enough money to make the team go, but attendance was never a problem. By the time the WHA folded and the teams you mention were taken into the NHL, the Saints were already gone. The North Stars' attendance was never great and too often poor, but the Wild have been playing to sellout and near-sellout crowds for 24 years. In Saint Paul, where all the real hockey fans are...
Also Minnesotan, too many little things that also contributed to the failure of the North Stars besides the owner
Oakland will live in Sports infamy forever, how do you lose every sports team and one team twice ????
Oakland Golden Seals 🏒
Oakland warriors 🏀
Oakland Athletics ⚾️
Oakland Raiders 🏈 twice
Don’t think anyone ever goes back there
City of Seattle had the arena renovated in the mid-90's. So imagine the pushback and vitriol David Stern received a only a few years later over asking for another one.
True. Do a search for the TH-cam video "David Stern Loves Key Arena". Less than ten years later it wasn't good enough for him.
Fun fact: the Athletics are gonna get a better view of new york than both the Yankees and Mets
Would be nice if they just came full circle and moved back to Philly.
Great to see you making content Brodie. I worked with you during fantasy camp 2022 with the Athletics.
Hey Brodie, you should do a top 5 of teams that were ready to move and were saved. Like SF to Tampa, Kings to Seattle , even Bob Lurie came in and bought the Giants in the 70s when they were talking about Toronto. Raiders proposed moves to Sacramento, Inglewood. I'm sure there are a ton of almost moves to put together a video. Thx
good one!
Long time Sonics fan here. Thank you for this video
I would say the original Charlotte Hornets move to New Orleans was a bad one because you took a team that was in a very hot market with a passionate fan base and move them to a city that hasn’t really been as passionate about them as their previous city was for the team.
Had Vancouver not requested Memphis first, the Hornets would've ended up there. New Orleans was the Hornets backup plan
go look at the last 2 years of Hornets basketball in Charlotte. The passion was gone. The fans were pissed at ownership because of his sexual assualt trial, and not keeping stars like Zo, Glen Rice, Eddie Jones etc. Then George did not want to sell to Micahel Jordan in 99 because he wanted control of the basketball operations (which we can all debate if that was a good thing or not) and later sold to an Atlanta business man who was born in New Orleans. Ray Woolridge had no intention on keeping the Hornets in Charlotte. Plus they lied about their club seat numbers to get approval.
@@hornetfan10Shinn didn't sell to Wooldridge they were co-owners. Shinn owned the team until 2010.
@@mramplified77006yes it was 60/40george having the majority. When it came to the relocation that was mostly if not all ray.
When the New Orleans Jazz left in the 70s for Utah...
Utah isn't exactly full of swinging hep-cats who are keen to jazz. 😂😅🤪
The Chargers is the worst in my opinion. The Spanos family would rather pay half a billion dollars to move to LA where no one wants them rather than have their own stadium in San Diego.
Correction, Dean Spanos wanted to do all of this. Dean's own family is suing him for messing up the family fortune.
Their first year in existence they were in L.A. and moved to San Diego. So, they sort of moved back where they started. Not defending it, just pointing it out.
@@honolulublues5548 I think that's such a dumb statement people make. Technically on paper that is true, but it was clearly a temporary home while the AFL figured out where the team really should be. It's almost like claiming room 414 at the hospital where you were born was the first place you lived.
@@MrCho14 no not quite the same. The same would be if the hospital was turned into condos and you moved in.
@@honolulublues5548 And yet really not that different. The obvious point was the team was temporary in LA when the AFL started. People just throw that out there to confuse the situation and try to show how smart they are.
One thing about the North Stars, you had an owner who didn't want to be there not long after he bought the team
Don’t forget the sexual harassment allegations that led to his wife threatening to leave him if he didn’t move!
Winnipeg Jets→Phoenix
If Edmonton Oliers decided to relocate to Houston,it must be considered most foolish relocation in NHL history.
For me Brodie the 1st was the California Golden seals left Oakland and moved to Cleveland, I feel in love with Hockey with the Seals even as bad as they Played, when the A's left it opened this wound again. Oakland deserves a Team. Always appreciate you Brodie keep up the great work, 100 thumbs up to you.
Had the Seals not made that trade with the Habs, they might still be here today. They would have Guy LeFleur and he would have been the star player an expansion team needs.
Fun Fact: The Golden Seals after moving to Cleveland are the last in America's big four sports to disband. Technically, they merged with the Minnesota North Stars, but they weren't sold, and they never played another game. Hard to even imagine today but in 1978 a pro team could just close up shop.
Man, Oakland deserves good things yeah. I love what the Bs are up to, but the As are gonna sting for a long time :(
@@mjwbulich the Arizona Coyotes disbanded the Utah Hockey Club is considered a New Franchise
Don't forget how greedy kroenke was in that move and how he put 0 up to move, but 6bil to build in LA
Breaking news: outside of San Francisco, California doesn't care enough about pro football to hold onto an nfl team, ESPECIALLY los Angeles.
Who cares how big the market is if no one shows up?
The chargers couldn't even fill a SOCCER STADIUM when they moved to LA a few years back.
The West Coast bias here is obscene.
Baltimore is #1 and everyone knows it.
Norm Green was looking for ANY excuse to leave Minnesota. The fact that the recently-opened Target Center was ready and waiting, which teams like the Nordiques, Jets, and Whalers didn't have, and Green chose against it because of a Coca-Cola/Pepsi sponsorship clash is just mind-boggling. It was also reported that he didn't want the team sharing a building with an NBA team, which is what the team has wound up doing since moving to Dallas.
Raiders were outfoxed by the A's with the stadium extension before the A's decided to leave. Mark Davis did not want to leave.
The funny thing about the Los Angeles Rams is that’s not their original home they were the originally were the Cleveland Rams they moved to LA in 1945 or 46 while the Browns became the main team.
And the Cardinals were from Chicago...well technically Racine, but that was before the formation of the NFL. So, they just kept making their way west.
9:15 lemon pledge arena.
Also, as a DALLAS Stars fan, Minnesota still doesn't have a hockey team. 😂
Go Stars!
Olympic stadium was falling apart, and about 4,300 showed up per game. I was there, it was a good move.
I am absolutely Stunned that Brodie didn't mention once the NHL's Former Coyotes moving to Utah.
Because the city they moved to actually makes sense. Even more sense than where they left. It was just crummy the way it had to happen because of inept ownership.
my mistake. I also remain hopeful they will get taken care of the right way within the next 4-8 years
@@dsarmy1 But Brodie Loves to bring up all the Negativity related to the once NHL Coyotes Hockey franchise. He recently ripped into the former Coyotes Owner for wanting to build an Arena in RENO, NV for His AHL Hockey team and Other Events on Property He already owns because the Guy requested City/County Tax Credits on Future Revenue that the Development will generate.
Because, as stupid as it is, they technically didn't move. "Technically" being the key word. On paper, the Coyotes are an inactive franchise who transferred all their players and personnel to a new expansion team in Utah
@@v1__rotate At what point does the NHL Franchise known as the Coyotes cease to exist? 5, 10 or 20 years of Hibernation?
I disagree with the argument that LA should have an NFL team. For LA fans, the NFL is almost secondary to everything else. All we have to do is look at who's currently in the stands during Rams and Chargers home games: it's almost always the opposing team's fans occupying 50% or more of the seats. Yes, LA has a large media market, but it doesn't embrace the NFL at the same level as some of these other cities.
St. Louis put their arms around the Rams, and they won a Super Bowl for that city in just their fourth year there. It wasn't lack of support that doomed the Rams. It was a greedy owner who just saw the LA market size and didn't consider football culture. Even after moving the Rams back to LA, Stan Kroenke was upset over the number of visiting fans at Rams games as if he was blind to this disparity in support.
I feel way more sorry for St. Louis Rams fans than their LA counterparts. They won a Super Bowl within 5 years of returning and are almost always outdrawn by the opposing team's fans.
Kind of an odd coincidence the Rams won the Superbowl 5 years after moving to St. Louis and then 5 years after moving back to LA, and even had another chance they lost in only 2 years after moving back. Funny enough the Rams first move to LA was in 1946 from Cleveland and they literally had just won the 1945 NFL Championship and then moved that off season. Sadly moving has been good luck for them because when they have stayed put they never won, until they moved and then moved back. And I say sadly because teams shouldn't be rewarded for bailing out on a loyal city but its worked both times for them success wise. I was a Sonics fan as a kid, they moved when I was 18 and I got to see them in a pre season game when they came to my city, Spokane, the main city on the other side of the state from Seattle, to play a game the season before their last in Seattle and that was the only time I got to see them. October 26,2006 where they beat the Warriors 111-107 in OT. Little did we know that was one of the last chances to ever see them, they did not come here for pre-season their final year. I was so happy when OKC lost those finals and I was a LeBron hater kind of, but I was a fan of his and the Heat for that Finals for sure.
4:26 - Speaking of confusion between MLB and NFL/AFL teams, history shows us the coexistence of the:
New York Giants (probably the longest-lived confusion, which is why the phrase "New York Football Giants" exists)
New York Yankees (short-lived)
Cleveland Indians (often short-lived)
Detroit Tigers
Washington Senators (only one year as an NFL team)
Cincinnati Reds
Brooklyn Dodgers
And there are probably more.
THANK YOU for including the North Stars. I wasn’t even North NEBULA Pokeshipper when the move happened (8 years before I was born), but I am STILL salty about the move, and STILL hate Norman Green.
The Dallas-Fort Worth metro area will soon surpass Chicago as the third-most populous metropolitan area in the USA. It definitely should have teams in all four major leagues.
@ Yeah… but did they have to take OURS?! The move made the NHL stand for No Hometown Loyalty.
@HighpointerGeocacher You won't hear anyone denying that, but did they really need to take the hockey team from Minnesota of all places? That would be like the Cowboys moving to Toronto (bigger than DFW) because they want a team.
@@DuckOfRubber It's a moot point now. Dallas fans now still have to hear about this not your team and it's getting old. Let us enjoy the team please
Dallas should've been an expansion team instead of a relocation. BTW, I miss that North Stars logo. I remember there was talk of a Winter Classic or Stadium Series game in Minnesota versus Dallas, and somebody suggested Dallas wear North Star jerseys in that game. That would've been a great sight.
Loved this one!!! Love you Brodie! Always love your videos. Mark
At least the Dallas stars have had success in Texas, winning a cup in 1999 and being a frequent contender. They also grew the game, as there’s now a thriving youth hockey and junior hockey scene in the Dallas area
Before you complain about the A's leaving Oakland, you MUST include the A's leaving KC and, perhaps, even the A's leaving Philadelphia.
Yep. That's why Brodie Brazil's analysis of moving the A's is historically incomplete. I lived in Kansas City most of the years when the team was there. One jerk owner (Charlie Finley) moved the team to Oakland and now another jerk owner (Fisher) has moved them out. Finley alienated everyone in K.C. wanting to move the team so badly and Oakland became the only place where he could go. There's a great video on TH-cam entitled "The Peculiar Story of the Kansas City Athletics" detailing what happened. Finley did develop a great A's team in the mid-70s which would have been much more enthusiastically received had they remained in Kansas City.
If the athletics end up staying in Sacramento, I hope they change their name to the Sacramento solons, in honor of the original baseball team that used to play there
This guy is still crying about the A's leaving that dump
Sonics to Thunder was not a bad relocation at all. Brought new life to a fledgling organization. Oh yeah, and no issues building a new arena in OKC.
Exactly, I get people are upset that a brand like the sonics is just non existent now, especially w Seattle being such a big hoops city. But let’s not act like the thunder aren’t one of the more recognizable brands in the league since ab 2009-2010. On top of that you won’t find many fan bases who care ab their team as much as we do here in okc.
Oklahoma takes too much pride in the team to not make it profitable. A football state no doubt. Plenty basketball heritage. Maybe an NHL team could work in the new arena. Fans would show regardless. Franchise was bought in ‘06 for $350 million. Worth $3.7 billion today. They’re trying to tell me that was a bad move
Fun video. I think relocation topics are always fun on TH-cam. Would like to see the 5 best relocation moves but could piss off people.
Funny enough about the Chargers. They started off in LA before moving to San Diego before returning to LA.
I remember the Chargers before the AFL-NFL merger. Chargers were in San Diego then.
@@robertewalt7789 The team started off in the AFL as the Los Angeles Chargers a decade before the merger you spoke of. Then they moved to San Diego before moving back to LA 56 years later.
It's funny how often that has happened in the NFL with the Raiders and Rams too in terms of going back to a city they moved away from. I've never seen that in any other major sport.
@@robertewalt7789 The Chargers were in L.A. for one year at the start of the AFL then they moved to San Diego.
@@713davidh42 They won the AFL Championship that one year in LA.
We may have started off in LA, but were only in LA for one season
We were the San Diego Chargers from 1961 until the recent move back to LA
Canadian hockey fans have been complaining to Bettman to relocate or put an expansion team in Canada mostly Quebec City. And they’ve been commenting on the panthers to move there.
We don't even want the A's here in Vegas! The ownership has never even shown the ability to come up with the 800B they have to put up for their share of the stadium. Hopefully they just stay in Sacramento!!
800m.
Missing you on all of the NBC Bay Area stuff. Good luck with TH-cam!
long live the Buffalo Braves.
And getting the Braves back won't be easy since the Raptors probably consider Buffalo their "territory." If I were to take a guess, Buffalo probably roots for the Nets or Cavaliers since Buffalo hates Boston, Philadelphia and the popular New York team almost as much as Toronto.
@@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 you'd think that but no. Buffalo is considered Knicks/Nets territory and those are the games that are broadcast here locally. The Raptors pretty much have zero presence here which is really a missed opportunity in my opinion. I am in the very small minority of people that roots for and drives to Toronto for Raptors games. I'm not saying people from Buffalo don't go to Raptors games, I"m sure a lot of them do, but they aren't rooting for the Raptors when they go there.
@@RalphBrighton - Buffalo and Toronto HATE each other! Ever seen those Bills games in Toronto ten years ago or so? And don't even get me started on Sabres vs. Leafs.
@@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 When I was a kid the Leafs weren't even in the same conference as the Sabres so I don't have the hatred for them as I do the Bruins, Habs or even the Senators. I also enjoy going to Blue Jays games.
@@RalphBrighton - They do now. And of course, Toronto was in the Campbell/Smythe due to too many Leastern Time Zone teams as usual. The San Jose's and Calgary's won't like hearing this, but New Jersey and Hartford deserve to be in the Campbell/West more than Detroit and Toronto.
They can have the sonics back all they want. We need a good rivalry anyway….. we’re still gonna thunder up.
Personally, I think if the NBA doesn't expand, then the New Orleans Pelicans should be relocated to Seattle to become the Sonics, and the Thunder could then be placed in the Southwest Division where they belong.
i think we are lucky in Europe for not realy have that problem, but the are some exemptions like when Wimbeldon did move to Milton Keynes
In Europe, promotion/relegation and small countries means there's nowhere else for a team to move to; England for example is the size of Alabama, and has 92 teams in the top four football divisions. Here, where we have a huge landmass and no pro/rel (the minor leagues are for reserve teams in the NHL and MLB), there will always be another viable market for a team to move to if a stadium can't be built.
And with sports leagues here run by the owners (like the Board of Directors for a company), the other owners are certainly not going to stand in the way if one of them wants to move in search of more profit for himself, and by extension the rest of them.
I hate how much you can tell hes given a bunch of talking points and that he actually doesn’t really know what hes talking about. Why talk ball when dont know ball?
The San Diego Clippers/Los Angeles Clippers didn’t make it?
Seriously it gave us the worst NBA franchise and worst owner.
It should be number 1
A case could even be made of moving Buffalo to San Diego to begin with.
Any no.1 other than MK Dons is incorrect
Kanasa City the most abandoned city. Scouts , A’s Basketball Royals , the Rams knew they made a mistake five minutes landing in St Louis. The sweater sales would have covered the cost of building a new stadium in LA. Rams moved allowed LA to be a Lakers town and basketball became king
Kansas City deserves an NBA and NHL team. OkC should be in KC.
@@timmanto1022 Kansas City is not a very large city.
They didn’t deserve the historic Philadelphia A’s!
The Royals were the name of the team while in Cincinnati, changed to Kings in Kansas City and Omaha
@@timmanto1022 They wasted taxpayer money building a new arena in Kansas City's former downtown area which has yet to lure an NBA or NHL team even though they had an arena in another part of town which hosted the dramatic 1976 Republican Convention.
The NFL did great without a team in LA.
Seattle certainly got screwed by the Sonics leaving, but by any measure the move to OKC has worked for the franchise. The team has thrived on and off the court. The Thunder have been huge for OKC, which doesn't have any other big league sports teams. The city does a great job supporting the team, which has one of the best home crowds in the Association. Seattle deserves an NBA team. But for the franchise, OKC, and, yes, the NBA this move was a huge success.
The Hornets franchise should have just stayed permanently in OKC but the NBA wanted to be in New Orleans, especially after Hurricane Katrina ravaged that area. Since then, the Pelicans franchise has always been one of the lowest revenue teams & lowest home attendance since.
I dont know who this guy is or how this video ended up in my feed but the massive omissions in the tale of the Rams relocations is pretty bad.
To be fair to the Rams they were not a good fit with Anaheim and having to be the little brothers to the LA Raiders gave them a much smaller market and having to share their stadium with the Angels didn't help. They're enjoying much more success in LA sharing an actual football stadium with the Chargers and watching the Raiders leave CA for LV made it even more profitable. Also to be fair we would rather have the Chargers than Plaschke in LA.
Not every home game feels like a Rams home game, however. Same thing with the Chargers.
It’s almost like LA football fans like rooting for whatever teams they’ve followed for a long time outside of the city.
The rams were far more popular in ANAHEIM than in LA. And Angels stadium has always been a better venue that the coliseum. Wtf are you talking about 😂😂
Yeah, all of these are awful. Should not be a thing. An English football/soccer team moved 56 miles to a different town. 20+ years ago. And they're still disliked. It's happened once. This is one reason among many why I've lost any interest in "professional" sports in USA (yet, I still got this suggested video, for some reason). Soccer/football has its issues but my interest in "professional" USA sports is not coming back.
The Sonics should never have left Seattle; however, OKC should have received the team from New Orleans. The Big Easy doesn't have enough well-off people who can support both the Saints and Pelicans. The only reason New Orleans still has an NBA team is because David Stern felt sorry for the city after Katrina.
After football season ends, the Pelicans are the only game in town
I think the video should of went longer Top 10 and 10 honourable mentions, so many , fun video to watch 👍
The Rams were the first major sports team in LA from the 1940s. Insane that they moved to STL. Sad how the Raiders have been mired in mediocrity for so many years especially for those of us who are old enough to still associate them with John Facenda and the Autumn Wind. Few teams in professional sports had a stronger team identity and brand. But IMHO the worst move of all time was Dodgers and Giants from New York something that would be inconceivable today given what those teams meant to the biggest MLB market in the country. LA and SF should have gotten expansion teams. The hate for both teams still lingers.
Follow up video: Five worst name changes. #2 Guardians. #1 Commanders.
#3 Edmonton Elks
Name changes caused by certain events in the Summer of 2020, I don't need to get into what one of them was
You left out the stupidest reason. The original Washington Senators were supposed to move to D C. Stadium in 1962. But, because the stadium was owned by the National Park Service, President Kennedy told the Senators that they had to agree to integrate the team and the stadium. Clark Griffith wanted to restrict black fans to the center field bleachers. The Redskins agreed, the Senators refused. Griffith moved the Senators to Minnesota and Washington got a weak expansion team. The sad part is that the 1965 World Series should have been in Washington.
It had to be Dwight Eisenhower, JFK's predecessor, who told the Senators they had to integrate. JFK didn't become president until 1961. The expansion Senators' first season was 1961, the season starting not quite three months after JFK took office.
Yeah that’s not what happened in St. Louis, you should probably read the law suit
Putting the Cleveland Browns and Brooklyn Dodgers in an "Honorable Mention" category in comparison to the Minnesota North Stars and Oakland A's is, for lack of a more gentle word coming to my mind at the moment, ridiculous. The Browns relocation was a gut punch that no one, even inside the ranks of NFL team ownership, saw coming; no one had any idea how bad a businessman (F)art Modell really was. The Dodgers relocation can be attributable to one, incredibly powerful, incredibly stubborn man named Robert Moses. Through various offices he held simultaneously, Moses wielded more power than NYC's mayor or even the state's Governor did when it came to matters of private or public development. Walter O'Malley put forth a plan to build a new stadium in Brooklyn, on the spot where the Nets arena sits today. Moses wouldn't even consider it, ultimately offering O'Malley one choice: move the team out of Brooklyn and into what became Shea Stadium, or go elsewhere. When Roz Wyman and the Los Angeles city council approached him with a deal he simply couldn't pass up? He and the team went west.
By contrast, five years before they actually relocated the Minnesota North Stars were drowning in red ink; as you're aware, the San Jose Sharks owe their existence to how the NHL placated the Gunds and tried to keep a franchise in Minneapolis. The only problem was they turned that Minneapolis franchise over to Norm Green, who from day one began looking to move it himself. And the A's? Well, as much as I hate what has taken place there and sympathize with Oakland and its fans, they literally had more than a decade to reach some accommodation that would have kept the team there; and regardless of where you care to place the blame? The A's relocation won't have anywhere near the impact as the Browns and Dodgers moves did.
There's a great video on TH-cam entitled "Why the Dodgers Moved from Brooklyn to Los Angeles" which corresponds to what you stated. Robert Moses was car-centric jerk who would have covered New York City in freeways had he lived longer.
The North Stars deserve their place on here. Norm Green was enough of a POS to get that, even if the North Stars had their struggles. I do agree on the Browns tho, the A's have had forever to figure something out in Oakland and didn't
The Browns never relocated the franchise went inactive
Tell that to my cousin, who after 31 years with the original Browns found himself unemployed because they didn't relocate...
San Diego could support a nfl franchise like they in LA now. A building full of opposing fans. This goes for the Rams too.
I think San Diego could support an NHL and NBA team too.
I’d argue the Dodgers to Los Angeles historically is the toughest and I say this as an LA fan. It was devastating to some people in Brooklyn AND Los Angeles.
There's a great video on TH-cam entitled "Why the Dodgers Moved from Brooklyn to Los Angeles" which describes what happened in both cities.
But then again, would you rather have had the PCL Hollywood Stars and Los Angeles Angels be added to MLB later than 1958?
@@AlexAcostaArt The Los Angeles Angels WERE ADDED as an expansion team in 1961 and they could have done the same thing with the PCL San Francisco Seals. MLB should have gone to the West Coast long before the Dodgers and Giants moved there.
Did this guy do any research at all before he made this video? Raiders left Oakland because the stadium (and the city) was a giant shit hole. Teams move because THEY CAN'T FILL THE STADIUMS!!!!! It's not that complicated to understand.
You forgot the Nets
I'd say the Jets and Nordiques leaving was one of the worst relocations ever.The NHL Sunbelt expansion actually created a lot of resentment from Canadian hockey fans.
If you are going to include the Nets than you also have to include the Islanders.
Still in the NYC area
Went to a Nets playoff game years ago against the Raptors. Crazy how many fans came from/were heading back to New Jersey after the game lol
Snarfus.