Nobushi was in a pretty good spot tbh I don't think she needed a rework. I was fine with fighting nobushi's that got decimated immediately, unfortunately now.thats she's got a buff she's alot more irritating to kill
@@russian_knight nope her old Hidden Stance was the most broken deffensive mechanich of the game. To destroy the turtle meta they needed to destroy it. Nobushi, Shinobi, Warden, Lawbringer, even Shugoki. Now I am sit and waiting for the Conq changes.
I personally enjoyed the old her, so much more of a challenge and I had to use more skill to get kills. Or my opponent was just stupid. The undodgeables do make it easier to catch people and I don't feel so helpless when people are like "eh, I'll just dodge everything"
Freeze: "PK always uses her sword for heavy attacks, never her dagger." Also Freeze: Does a left side dodge heavy, which uses PK's dagger So sick of this misinformation pushing your biased agenda Mr Fridge, I can't believe you said one thing that is slightly incorrect in an insignificant way! This obviously means all criticisms of you are true! I bet you also emote spam, eat babies, and main shinobi! Unsubscribed, sad.
I thought I’m the only one who’s loving for honor back again,every change we are getting is amazing...it’s about time before shinobi and Aramusha getting a rework.
Really? Hamma slam requires the enemy OOS and recovers stamina for both jorm and the opponent. So you are saying pk's gb should do 38, but only if the enemy is OOS, and it recovers both fighter's stamina?.
@@MyLungsStillBurn hammer slam is a stam punish just like shamans bite gb is just a normal fucking mechanic and now that she will have unblockables that’s stupid absolutely retarded amount of damage stop riding pk’s short sword she used to be bad but now she’s good she doesn’t need that stupid amount of damage off a gb
Excellent breakdown Freeze, and I noticed a considerable difference in the tone of the video. Whether intentional or not, you sound fairly positive and the condescending attitude that can creep in is, thankfully, absent from this piece. Your work is much appreciated and I certainly hope you know that. Thank you!
Those guys are some sad shit , for real But , it is the truth that she is way safer than him and when bleeding she does also more damage But the feats are not even close to the same level
Not even close. She’s good. It’s tough to close the gap but her moves are still mostly linear. Being a nobushi requires skill, if youre a light spammer they get wrecked. Gryphon is just brain dead.
@@unknowingreaper6556 th-cam.com/video/8za8TZv4XpQ/w-d-xo.html This falls under this topic i would say. Imo she was never dogshit since season 6 but i can See why some people thought so. But Just because a character is underpowered it doesnt mean unhealthy/unbalanced stuff has to stay in the game.
Great video and I appreciate hearing your stance on the characters, particularly PK, your argument for the deflect change is very strong especially considering that accidentally using riposting stab can get you killed in some instances. I main PK myself and I hold my hands up and admit I've complained about PK's damage and have used her inability to confirm kills/execute as frequently as other heroes as an argument for her damage values. However, I have also advocated that her damage values fell in line with other heroes and that bleed was huge component within that, bleed has a lot of advantages as you've said but PK, especially now cares for the duration of her opponents bleed as opposed to how much damage she deals with it. Her triple GB stab is absurd and needs to come down naturally but with regards to her heavy to deep gouge ratio, her deep gouge could have easily taken a damage nerf (maintaining bleed duration) to justify the 5 damage buff on her heavies, she would have still fell within the damage range set by the CCU in that regard and it would have alleviated some of her issues, one of which naturally is all her bleed damage being wiped away at the touch of a button from healing. Her dodge attack obviously has problems, fixed input, poor hitbox and inability to chain for safety. Though I'd have settled for a variable input and a new chain option for the girl. After seeing the feedback Ubi gave in their post regarding the results of the testing grounds I honestly wonder if the majority of players filling it in only fought her as opposed to playing her. Anyhow, rant over. Thanks for the breakdown. Very helpful. 🙂
i will have to dissagre, i rly think that people overstimate the utilitly of bleed dmg bleed atacks from pk takes from 5 to 10 seconds to get full value, and that is time that the enemy can use to counter atack, and they cannot get executed by this dmg deep gouge is a extra light on top a heavy in a greater period of time, he having a sligth less raw dmg value intead of 30~25 raw like some of the cast heavys on the 22 ~ 25 dmg range should do,(i still think that her top heavys should do something special or just a lot more of raw dmg as the lose the feint into dagger cancel) and if that is too much reduce a bit the bleed dmg, but raw + bleed should alway be more than just raw, and a full bleed atack should do a lot more than a full raw atack, because of the time the oponent have after the atacks lands to do something, for the topic of the gb, pk does 38 dmg, then goues back to neutral and in the case wicht that dmg would have kill the enemy, he still haves 10 to win the fight, (or clean that dmg) for the rest of the cast, if you got a gb you usually get a heavy starter (usually the weaker side, unless you get a wall) average 25~22 plus usually that lead into a chain, usually you can follow with a light or get into a mixup by now, so you have to add a 2/3 of a light or whatever mix up finisher the character have, so minimun you get 0dmg (blocked) on average you can get a light dmg, 12 or if you got a strong mix up a heavy finisher (30~ 25) so in average most of the cast can get 37 dmg of a gb tha will instaly kill the oponent, i can see that his dmg are in line with the rest of the cast, but i would argue that she could have even a bit more than she as now, because of the low dps bleed has, edit : sry for the long rant, tx for reading
@@vicio19995 The rest of the cast having the potential of a 37 damage average from a GB is not the same as having 38 confirmed damage from GB. Average punish of GB is 24 (800ms heavy) with the average wall punish being around 27 (900ms heavy). There's obviously character exceptions like Raider, Kensei and Gryphon to name a few. PK shouldn't be exempt from this damage average because bleed can be cleansed or because her heavies without bleed fall behind in damage numbers. Nor should she be allowed to retain a high GB punish because she hasn't got multiple chain options. Her GB stabs do put her in neutral yes but she's also frame advantaged and with her changes she's frame advantaged often. If anything the argument to be taken from all these points is that there is need for more change rather than less as currently Peacekeeper stands in a state of underpowered in some aspects and overpowered in others. A few changes could dramatically increase PK's viability and keep her in a state of balance by comparison to the rest of the roster, changes like: 1. Healing should not cleanse bleed the way it currently does. (Mechanical change to the game that affects more than just PK but directly affects her viability due to her kit being dependant on bleed). 2. Peacekeeper needs a new chain option. Heavy, light, Heavy with deep gouge removed on openers. This ensures that her GB heavy punish gives her additional options alongside chain pressure. Another way to access 400ms chain light and forces PK players to choose an appropriate punish on GB, stabs for bleed or heavy for chain pressure. (Heavy opener would likely need a damage buff to compensate lack of deep gouge but still lower than finisher heavy). 3. Triple stab damage brought down to a respectable and fair damage range without reducing the bleed duration. 4. Reduced bleed damage from deep gouge and increase damage on dodge attacks and finisher heavies without affecting bleed duration. (-5 bleed and +3 raw). Without taking into account other issues, like her dodge attack. These changes fulfill the criteria of normalising her damage whilst retaining her bleed advantages, giving her additional chain options whilst adding depth to her kit, allows PK to function in a 4v4 environment without healing shutting down or undoing her offense and fits the developers intentions of having PK be a hero that functions at her best in tandem with the bleed mechanic without sacrificing her damage or ability to confirm kills on raw hits.
@@Mattman_90 while i rly like this approach, i still am on the thought that assasing should be on the upper end of dmg, even more if is a bleed aproch, 1 i completly agree that heal, should just heal your missing hp, not cleanse bleed, ig we do that that is bit of dmg we can take of all bleed dmg 2while i like your changes, heavy light chain, (maybe we could keep deep gauge in all heavies by ending chain using GB button after landed heavy? ) i think the core problem is bleeding dmg in itself, is tedius and unfun for both the oponent, and the user my points, is so slow that if you would die from it, you feel like you are already on a deadth clock respawn but at least you can do one last try before going down, and for the user, it gets in the way of getting executions and, having to keep waiting for the op to die is just unfun, it get cleanse by heals, but that is already point 1 i rly thing that the big change should be complety reworked, 3 , while bleed is still in his current state triple stab has to remaing as the highest gb punish of the game, doing 38 dmg but giving 10 seconds to you opponent to cacht on is too long of a time as a refenrence you give him 4+ heavy/heavy chains, if they get you in a mix up they could kill you faster for a dmg you already guaranteed, and lose the fight, 4. i completly agree, with a note, i think (and this go for every assasing and heavy dogue atack,) it should be a chain starter, and with point 2 , to choose if you want to stab deep gauge( gb button) or light/heavy chain, for normal dmg dogue heavys we are in 16 , we have the option of confrim bleed so reduce 1 point of raw for 3 of bleed we can confirm, i think good balance should be 13 - 9 so the spot or close, for exe, and counting that could be a a chain starter i think it coul be fair ( ajust numbers a bit i dont mind) what do you that think?
@@vicio19995 I understand the thought process of you wanting PK to retain a high damage GB punish due to bleeds current interaction with healing. However that damage value is too high currently, would become even more absurd if still in the live game with healing no longer cleansing bleed. Those kind of balance changes can't be an if/or scenario, bleed and fire being cleansed is fundamentally bad for the games health over all and needs to be altered despite PK's high damage GB punish. (It just directly affects PK's viability because of her kit). By the same metrics though, PK's GB stabs being so high is also detrimental to the games balance on its own especially now that PK has means to get a successful GB more often. That kind of damage is simply too high for one punish. Bleed being tedious and unfun is purely subjective but even if you feel that way, having the bulk of her damage be raw instead of bleed would reduce the tedium. Her bleed becomes a supplementary source of damage than enables the better parts of her kit. It's duration remaining the same ensures PK doesn't lose access to her pressure when she lands a bleed but the lower bleed damage allows her raw damage to be increased. Regarding my proposed new chain, I don't think retaining deep gouge on heavy opener is a good idea. It gives PK too much, she'd have a guarenteed bleed which then would let her chain into an unblockable finisher. As long as you landed a heavy opener, you'd always have that pressure and that's too strong. By removing deep gouge on openers, PK players will have to be careful to maintain bleed on their opponents and use the right punishes for the right situations. With another way to access that 400ms light she not only makes her chain attack less predictable but gives her a tool that can help her in 1v2, letting her tag opponents team mates trying to interrupt her mid chain. On top of that it if her opponent is bleeding, the light becomes enhanced meaning she gets chip damage. Might not be a lot of damage but that's the beauty of bleed, it makes chip damage lethal. And of course it deals damage under shields too. I agree that her dodge attack lacking a chain option to make it safe is negative for her but I'm not sure how to actually make a change for it that would be fair and balanced so I'll settle for it having a variable input window. Ultimately though it could be just down to reducing the recovery on whiff so it's vulnerable to dodge attacks and not GB. (Of course that's a whole new can of worms for the cast that don't have side dodge attacks). There's no real right or wrong answer here as everyone has different ideas, the devs did make PK better without a doubt but I'd say the devs failed at making her viable for tournaments. My proposed changes might not necessarily be the answer to that but I do think if they were implemented she'd be a better hero at what the devs want from her and she would be more widely acknowledged as a good and balanced hero. She would still have shortcomings but that's perfectly fine, the rest of the team is there to cover for that as she will undoubtedly fill a role that a different team member cannot do.
@@stopyouneedhelp6115 I remember old hidden stance... Bullying highlanders and wardens was quite fun. Wardens actually had countermeasures, but 99% of them were too braindead to use them
rep 7 pk, saw the testing grounds, for one month straight I was failing deflect attack cause pressing m2. It is far better now. I would add the unblockable and damage buff allowed me to use new strategies like gb --> heavy --> dagger things like that. It changes from the light spam and heavies only used to bait.
I think the only thing nobu needs now is greater range in her kick. This way, the offensive mixup from hidden stance is actually viable. Right, now the kick only lands if you are almost point blank from hidden stance. If it had a usable range, then it would make her offensive glow even better given how she can recovery cancel with hidden stance
personally disagree - i usually hidden stance someone heavy / light then kick, from here the opponents usually used up more stamana in their attacks and I am winning the stamana race as I call it
I've got 52 reps on PK, and I agree with your comments. My other huge issue with her dodges are that they move you out of position relative to your opponent in a 1v1. Other dodge attacks keep you at a range where you can continue your offense, but the lateral movement on her dodges means that she can get too far away from the enemy and have to close the gap. There's no need for this, especially since she needs to be up close to be effective. They feel so clunky, especially after playing other heroes with proper dodge attacks.
Thank you freeze for this video, I just returned to For Honor after a 2 year break and Nobushi was my main and I was confused when I saw so many nobushis in matches as well as having so much different things to her since I was playing her like she was before that, now I can work to improve on the Newbushi :D Also, great video
PeaceKeeper: People tend to dodge + heavy as a response to an attack. Making it also a deflect makes it an interesting Option Select move. It is welcome imo.
The main issue of it it removes some player control There are some scenarios where Dodge attacks also would be preferable over a Dodge attack I.e, Hyper armor Deflects
As a PK main I am quite happy with her changes. Regarding her damage I think it is basically a misconception as PK is designed to be a "damage over time" character, aka, bleed centered. One thing that I would love to see for all heroes is a potential Damage per second normalised by the heroe's health and / or stamina pool. I think the current iteration of PK bumps her up significantly on the tier list and her sinergy with Shaman is even stronger now with the new changes but in my uneducated opinion her low survivability will keep her away from the competitive scene. On the other hand I reckon we'll start seeing more nobu. Her kit is solid now and with her changes she can bully kenseis in mid, but I don't play nobushi so don't take my word for it.
personally i found it easier to just dodge back her kick is short ranged so dodge back because even if she does an undogable heavy at least your camera is centred and you can react to it a lot more
sometimes I found myself dodging the kick but then getting hit by like, her toe or something and it still hits me. could just be the ping or something idk
@@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial depends on your character I think please note I use PK quite a bit and nobu a lot I couldn't do this movement with raider for example unless i rolled side note i've only had the game for almost 2 weeks so I am speaking from my experience and trying to let others know what works for me there is probably something better out there
I think pk is in a good spot right now, to be honest I didnt even notice the nobu changes but I didnt consider her bad or good before, just kind of there. I think pk's gb to triple stab dmg is just fine because it can be cleansed so easily, the idea of assassins was that theyre good in 1v1s and deal lots of damage in those situations but arent exactly perfect in teamfights, I think this applies here, pk deals huge amounts of bleed damage but in a teamfight this is negated easily with shields, healing and so on, while in 1v1s the other player needs to simply outplay the pk. I think this fits her design and dont mind it. I am also happy to see more than one pk every week at all now, this popularity probably wont stay forever but I still like seeing more than gryphon in a lobby. (also I played pk before the patches and its nice to feel like more than a piece of paper with dull razorblades on the opposing corners, and having a chance of killing gryphon is also nice).
@@fearspackofwolves699 considering that most raw heavies dont deal that much damage but all the new heroes usually outclassing everyone in damage like gryphons kick heavy follow up dealing ridiculous damage even if its not 30 and that NOT requiring to land a gb I think its perfectly alright for the gb punish to be LIKE an out of stam punish due to her out of stam punish being TERRIBLE
The kick is so nice it's not too fast where you have to read before the move even comes out, have to have a feeling, then just react see her about to kick then you can react to it unlike gryphons where you have to completely just make the right read
Being a nobu main, its actually really fun getting to be aggressive with her now when as you said people aren't used to it, one of things I've loved about her is her flow with her recovery cancels and the only problem with part of pk's damage value being bleed is the cleansing with healing and warden/nuxia thick blood feat, that's what they need to sort out instead of her damage, especially with gryphons feats.
The problem with confirmed light attacks is that they’re treated as one attack in confirmed damage and punishes, but they shorten chains and a lot of the time end offense with low net damage from chains. Such as Shinobi opting for an extra 4 damage and being frame disadvantaged instead of taking 5 block damage on a chain heavy and frame advantage, or only throwing single lights back to neutral or increasing risk with a chain light. PK is similar that opting for a confirmed light takes away chain pressure and many people preferred to use chain 400ms lights, with external dead-zone options, or even just locked on for high net damage even though it’s not always “confirmed” off the first attack punish. Gryphon avoids this problem by having a 3 hit chain that accelerates his offense and he can maintain frame advantage, offense, and net chain damage even after a confirmed light chain. Not sure how much damage Nobu’s confirmed light chain does, but she has recovery cancels to chain into that allow her to avoid this problem, someone remind me how much damage her double light does but I believe it’s also higher damage. I really wish Shinobi had dodge recovery cancels that didn’t force a near useless backflip with no s and he could instead chain into a single dodge kick and mixup timings with a double dodge kick and maintain chain offense and mobility. But he really has a poor DPS and net chain damage and offense problem as well as almost always being frame disadvantaged. So the argument that PK has low damage isn’t completely wrong, because you are counting 2 attacks as one and when you do that then confirmed follow up lights aren’t allowed to have an advantage other than a hit stun gank and take away from chains and offense and take more time delaying your own recovery. There’s a lot of downsides to confirmed attacks that PK and Shinobi share that are overlooked for the sake of comparing confirmed parry punish numbers, but the net damage potential is usually less regardless of a higher confirmed punish. And yes, 38 on GB is too much and bleed needs to stay applied regardless of heal.
I mean I've been offensive bushi since I've picked her up like a year ago more or less. Never hard mained her cause lb is my child, but still, she is like rep 12 currently, and aside from a rep 11 warlord, rep 7 pk, and rep nine ZahnHu yeah.... Long story short between the way the stamp changes in the ccu helped ZahnHu and this mid season patch I've been having a good time....
@@kilianflock9852 I mean imma be real if i got long range and I'm face a PK or orichi I'll play to that cos they can't hit me - i often condition my opponent to get used to the light but then dash into them with a light and start a combo against pretty much everyone else I'll be aggressive i just don't like being in cqb against most assassins in this game or anyone with really fast lights
@@kilianflock9852 I think your mentality is so widespread that it hurts the game. People shouldn't be enjoyable to fight outside of your own will to beat their strategy. The widespread mentality that you should fight a certain way so your opponent has a fair chance to do what they want to do makes competition masturbatory.
@@csquared4538 im not saying u *should* fight a certain way to be "enjoyable" to fight. Im just pointing out a certain Stereotype of playstyle (for ex. here nobu) that is by no means fun to fight.
Hey freeze can we address reflex guard please. The ccu has us not being able to react to offense yet we have a guard in the game we have to use on reaction?? It needs to go , make it happen. 🤙🏻
So considering the dodge heavies can’t be chained, should they not be considered chain finishers? Meaning if the opponent is then bleeding it should be unblockable. I think that would be a nice addition if they aren’t allowing it to be chained
I find the nobu changes quite interesting, though I wish that Ubisoft finally built up the courage to make the kick (and other semi-reactable openers) truly unreactable for everyone. The new chains and softfeints are pretty damn cool, however some of that animation skipping is just plain ugly imo. Certainly coulda used a few more days in the oven or so. But overall, I like where the current hero rebalancing they're doing is going.
I'm hoping people see this comment: For controller users you can click R3 to switch targets. For my nearly 2 years on this game I did not know this because the story teaching you to release the guard to switch targets.
Don’t know if anyone noticed this, but pk dodge stab damage was raised, also base heavy no longer can hit for 12 and now hover around 15 or 16 damage. ( I feel like the stab after heavy should be unblockable like the old pk stab in the early game)
Honestly, I wish they didn’t change the deflect input. Even on accidental deflect the window was long enough to hit the input regularly. Changing the input was unnecessary. Although before the new update her bleed was pointless and so the numbers were low for the stamina cost mitigated also by DoT. Also when did her guardbreak go from 33 to 38?
That’s not true when fighting a bunch of people and your mind is everywhere it’s very easy to miss your deflect and realize too late, as a pk main this saved me so many deflects, so quit whining
I believe PK really needed a heavy>light>heavy combo. This is how it should work: If heavy lands you would continue with deep gouge and chains into heavy finisher. If heavy is blocked or missed, next attack can be a normal chain light with option to go into heavy finisher after. This should also work with the dodge attack, to make it less risky for guard breaks and to increase the flow of the character. This will also give an extra way to activate her new unblockable finishers within a single chain. Instead of just trying to get the bleed in one combo and have to start a new combo to get the unblockables.
As far as PK goes, I really haven't heard many people complaining about her "low damage". In fact, the most popular opinion for PK after the Testing Grounds was "Add 5 damage to her raw damage, remove 5 from her bleed damage and make her bleed tick half as fast" thus allowing her to get executions, not have all her damage cleansed and still have the same amount of time with enhanced lights and unblockable finishers. As she is now, she actually has higher damage than she really ought to, with 26 damage heavies (15 raw, 1 dagger, 10 bleed) and 33 unblockable heavies (22 raw, 1 dagger, 10 bleed). So as it is, she has very high damage heavies. One issue I'd like to see resolved with PK is her unblockable tracking. I thought the idea of this was that it would add pressure in gank scenarios. My problem is that the range on those attacks suck. Usually, the strategy is to do a backstep light attack (as to not feed revenge) then go into the finisher heavy. However, PK stays rooted in spot when she does this, and as such adds practically zero ganking pressure. Otherwise, I believe this was a well done buff for PK, and I think that nerfing her damage slightly, increasing tracking on her finishers and fixing that dodge attack recovery will put her into perfect territory.
@@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial y’all do realize that’s the same as saying u don’t want the game to be balanced right u can’t say u want the game to be fun and balanced and forget about a hero that’s hypocritical
@@forbiddenchaos1335 okay first of all. please use commas so that your sentences are more *c o h er e n t* and second, *nobody cares about the funny weeb hero* because there's like, 7 people who play him (obviously exaggerated) and his "rework" is more of a meme than an actual request, because Shinobis concept is complete dogshit and doesn't fit the game anyways.
Buffing the 2 heros I enjoyed most back in the day has made me come back to the game after more than a year. Pk and nobu feel fluid and good. It does seem like a lot more classes are viable now and the game is pushing to have offense be offense and not a strong defense as the best offense. I always enjoyed the slower nature of the game, but I also think it's a much healthier way for things to go if they ever release a for honor 2 to bring in new masses, and maybe make an esports game of it.
Great vid Freeze! It's been bothering me for a long time, even more so after Nobushi had her kick adjusted without the speed. Could unreactability not be created by controlling tracking duration? It's been bothering me, because would it really matter how fast a 566ms bash is if the dodge window is the same as a 500ms bash? That it would catch both early and late dodges, but miss on the right timing?
Still wish they would speed up the kick a little more to make it truly unreactable, I know many players including 3 on my team myself included that can consistently react to 500 ms bashes, giving players with better setups and naturally faster reaction times is unfair, and it would be nice if the devs start experimenting with faster bashes.
I think health feats are the reason people have no issue with PK's gb damage. A single heal, even in the smallest increment will completely get rid of all bleed. And considering that most players play in 4s, healing feats are very prevalent.
@@uniqueunicorn4319 thats Just a thing with all Out of Lock (OOL) punishes ... You should Hear about OOL+OOS punishes Like jorms Heavy into heavy into Hammer Slam
They did well, those changes are really good for both of these underdogs. I think the only thing missing is that they should add some actual i-frames to nobushi's dodge attacks and give peacekeeper omnidirectional dagger cancel. Now they should definetely take another direction with the warden and shugoki's reworks, since the former was busted and the latter useless in the testing grounds. The only good things were back-dodge-miserum and shugoki's hyper-lights being both deleted from the face of the earth.
I mean with shugoki they only have to let the HA on the demons embrace stay, reduce the Recovery on whiff and add the Testing grounds changes (Dodge bash and Dodge attack/Roll catcher) Warden idk, the improved trajectories seemed cool but i dont think He really needs unblockable Chain finisher Like an easier to Play. I would Like a heavy light Combo Like WM for him
Omg a special heavy on guardbreak for peacekeeper sounds so fucking cool- Imagine if she like shanks you twice with the dagger, and then stabs you through the chest with the shortsword. That'd be AWESOME. Idk it's not the point pof why ypou suggested it, but I'd love that that sounds so cool lmao.
Uhhh, how is it possible that you don't know PK gets side heavy on gb? This has been a thing for ages now., and was changed specifically so she gets more executions.
I have never thought nobushi was weak, maybe because i only got mine to rank 9, who knows. I main warden exclusively for the bleed protection, out of pure fear of nobushis and peacekeepers, and now both of them are so much stronger.
Honestly does nobu really need way of the shark really? Extra damage passive from a character thats going to get bleed off any bash, hidden stance punish or heavy parry. They should change what it does if they do keep it
In my opinion nobushi is now better than kensei in 4s. Better ganks, faster than kensei, slightly better feats, almost equal team fights, good defensively in 1s, and arguably better mid clear. I am really happy to see her back in comp! She doesn’t replace any of the characters now, but is still in like top 6.
Meanwhile I've just been dying while playing offensive nobu for like over a year now cause I still liked the flow.... Same with pk so this patch was honestly like the literal best thing for me. Also pk still shreds through hp. Also I agree on the deflect
I literally cant fight nobushi anymore. On ps4 I get light and bleed spammed to the point where i can't move or block the attack. Then they turtle when i attack and continue spamming after
I have a question freeze Does latency affect the timing of full block/hidden stance? Cause half the time I input it but it doesn't register and I get whacked when it should've went while opponents can pull it off without even trying.
Yeah, monitor and controlled input latency is the common culprit. Upgrade monitors if possible, and definitely work in training mode tweaking your dead zone in the advanced controls under settings. Takes practice, for sure. PS4 player here, btw. The input delay can be brutal.
@@1blueeye Thank ya I'm on xbox and I have wired controller, I think it's my latency at most (stays around 70-98) cause I can only afford satellite Internet. (Yet I crush in Battlefront 2 lol)
Just did some testing. Gryphon’s max OOS Gb punish is 41 damage. What u do is throw to the right, lawbringer shove (wait until neutral), light, veteran kick, heavy. And it’s guaranteed. U can’t dodge it or parry it. The best u can do is not throw any lights or heavys and be weary of a Gb. THIS IS SO STUPID!!! Off a oos parry gryphon gets 47 max punish guarantee. Parry, double light, top heavy.
They both in a good spot after the changes. Both are strong now but they require actual skill. You can’t light spam. Also, I haven’t seen everyone and their mom playing them like the pervious 2 new heroes.
The only negative things I could say about Nobushi is her zone hard feint and her heavy dodge attacks being not that great for actually dodging. But I think over time I can get used to them. Overall I LOVE Nobushi, finally I can main her again! There is so much to learn and it is finally a challenge to play with the character, but in a good way. She is simply hard to play with, but she isn't OP or underpowered. I think she is a well-balanced hard-to-play hero!
Pk's gb damage is way too high. If you're getting ganked and there's a pk, as soon as you get into recovery for one reason or another, she'll gb you, meaning you eat her 38 dmg bleed + someone else's heavy + now you can't just block attacks to defend yourself as you're bleeding and chip damage can actually kill you. Oh and PK now has instant unblockables, meaning even more gank pressure. And this gets exacerbated if the gankers have several ways to inflict bleed...
@@therealtjpek i mean alternatively you could pick heroes with second wind, stallwart banner, Regeneration or simply gryphon to counter it, still doesnt save you from further GBs or in Duels/Ranked/brawls
that statemen, is also true but more fast for characters with a heavy gb punish, and a unblockable or bash like kensey, but intead of having 10 sevonds to gaing revenge, or heal, you die inmediatly
For Pk I would have preferred if it was given her undodgeable side heavy enders and unblockable top heavy enders. Just so that she could bait a bit more easily for deflects from her enemies to get a gb. (About the problem of Pk’s none executions: I wonder if it couldn’t be done it like this: heavy finishers are now unblockable, but her unblockable, on successful hit, “absorbs” the current bleed dmg. Let’s say her dmg on a heavy finisher is 18, and her bleeding opponent has a bleed tic on him for 7 points, the total dmg of her heavy is the heavy connects is 25. It would be really broken to see that happening after a full gb punish LOL. No deep gouge afterwards.) That said, I think her gb “kidney theft” punish still deals way too much dmg! How much is it? 38? Make it 27 (three stabs per 9 bleed dmg) and she’ll be fine! Also, I honestly don’t understand why her deflect is now a heavy input, it’s just stupid imo.
@@wolvenedvard3049 sry, i was refering about lowering the dmg on the stabs, even if is a lot you still have to consider a few things, her acces to a gb: now we have a unblock if eny bleeds so we have a bit easier, (not muchs with zone op selects running arround) the ticks takes full 10 seconds to get the dmg in, so in that time, you can react or even kill the pk, a lot of heroes can do 4+ heavy combos mix up on the time it takes to bleed to dead compare that to a 25/30 raw hit that will kill you on the spot, for comparison, you are getting a worth of a heavy + less than a light of a normal character of pk gb in the time of 10 seconds, and that dmg can be reverted by the mayority of the cast in certaing modes i think, i explained that bit better, sry for gramm, tx for reading, i m open to dicuss this if you wanna
The problem I have with PKs damage is that she can't execute for shit. It often means I have to rely solely on bounty hunter, which got nerfed recently so it gives less than most executions.
@@reelgesh51 the Perk devourer (+15hp) only activates on executions, while the feat bountyhunter (+25hp) activates on a kill ( doesnt matter If your opponent gets executed)
If only all of pickles bleed wasn't completely irrelevant the second a nobushi/kensei etc. drops a smoke cloud on you on a base that they own.. I'd rather have her raw damage back over bleeding, I'd personally prefer the bleed toned way down and the damage up a little bit, like the 5 increase did but without the ridiculous bleed ontop of that.
@@brockbaker549 I was playing him last night and yes. It is exactly that. If you do is dodge heavy and soft feint it to dodge light it looks alright but on its own it’s rough now for some reason.
Pls buff nuxia 1) Make her trap deal 25 damage 2) Make every Zone performed after a 2nd chain move have undodgeble properties (both for the attack and for the trap) 3) Fix her trap. Make it work consistently against OS and CC.
Nuxia rework ideas You have to change your guard to light them out of the trap or you get caught by it early parries will also get caught by trap Undodgeable chain zone Give her a new neutral zone that option selects or speed up her zone to 700 ms n make it non-feintable from neutral Unblockable heavy finishers on all sides Forward Dodge kick that confirms a light like cent with the ability to fast light after a whiffed kick if you don’t you have gb vulnerability Maybe faster side dodge lights and maybe a side dodge kick or sweep with gun vulnerability after a whiff All kicks/ sweeps would guarantee her parry to light follow up repost
That’s revenge for you as I agree that her damage values could be tweaked plenty of characters could do the same thing in revenge if not even more damage depending on the move
"Oh yeah, we forgot about Shinobi."
"We know."
Who?
@@Adercu "You know the funny ranged character, whose concept will either be totally op or completely trash in this game"
Yeaaah boy
save the boy
Ubi: I've never seen that man in my life
What you can't deny, is how fun Nobushi is now, it feels like she has much more flow, almost pre-nerf feeling.
For real Nobushi was one of the 5 characters i touched Like only once a year. Might rep her Up to Rep 10 now, cuz she really Looks fun to play
Nobushi was in a pretty good spot tbh I don't think she needed a rework. I was fine with fighting nobushi's that got decimated immediately, unfortunately now.thats she's got a buff she's alot more irritating to kill
@@russian_knight nope her old Hidden Stance was the most broken deffensive mechanich of the game. To destroy the turtle meta they needed to destroy it. Nobushi, Shinobi, Warden, Lawbringer, even Shugoki. Now I am sit and waiting for the Conq changes.
@@russian_knight what? 🤣
I personally enjoyed the old her, so much more of a challenge and I had to use more skill to get kills. Or my opponent was just stupid.
The undodgeables do make it easier to catch people and I don't feel so helpless when people are like "eh, I'll just dodge everything"
Freeze: "PK always uses her sword for heavy attacks, never her dagger."
Also Freeze: Does a left side dodge heavy, which uses PK's dagger
So sick of this misinformation pushing your biased agenda Mr Fridge, I can't believe you said one thing that is slightly incorrect in an insignificant way! This obviously means all criticisms of you are true! I bet you also emote spam, eat babies, and main shinobi! Unsubscribed, sad.
/s 💝
wow what a toxic asshole
i bet he gank spams too, instead of doing the honorable 1v1 in dominion
reported for spamming
I will be referring to freeze as Mr Fridge from now on.
@@TheFilthySpaniard :/
@@ReadySteadyVon and if you dont return his 1v1 emote he'll attack with wows and thanks lmao
Nobushi is definitely a beast now. I am in love with this game once again!
I thought I’m the only one who’s loving for honor back again,every change we are getting is amazing...it’s about time before shinobi and Aramusha getting a rework.
Now she isnt only sweet she plays sweet too🙃
She always has been beside her dodge frames on her dodge heavy and hidden stance
She is good. But still no neutral pressure.
She's obviously better now, but still lacks any form or unreactable offence or pressure. No fast bash, no unblockable attack.
Ok nice, I had a nobu soft feint kick me, and I was completely taken back because I had never seen it happen before. Great changes for sure.
The gb bleed should get the cent treatment: first two give lower amounts of bleed, third gives a bit more.
But that's how it works right now....
Yup, first two stabs cause 2 damage/second bleed, last deal 4 damage/second.
38 dmg off a gb shouldn't be a thing, period. I mean fucking Hamarr Slam is 38
Really? Hamma slam requires the enemy OOS and recovers stamina for both jorm and the opponent. So you are saying pk's gb should do 38, but only if the enemy is OOS, and it recovers both fighter's stamina?.
@@MyLungsStillBurn hammer slam is a stam punish just like shamans bite gb is just a normal fucking mechanic and now that she will have unblockables that’s stupid absolutely retarded amount of damage stop riding pk’s short sword she used to be bad but now she’s good she doesn’t need that stupid amount of damage off a gb
Excellent breakdown Freeze, and I noticed a considerable difference in the tone of the video. Whether intentional or not, you sound fairly positive and the condescending attitude that can creep in is, thankfully, absent from this piece. Your work is much appreciated and I certainly hope you know that. Thank you!
Agreed. His condescending attitude makes watching him more difficult
Freeze has never really struck me as condescending.
Its part of the man, let him be passionate
I’ve already seen on FH rants some people complaining about Nobushi being worse than Gryphon and OP.
My hope for humanity is seriously wavering...
Those guys are some sad shit , for real
But , it is the truth that she is way safer than him and when bleeding she does also more damage
But the feats are not even close to the same level
Funny/sad thing is: These people probably think 38 bleed dmg on GB with PK is balanced.... You cant make this up
@@nuke1863 it was when she was dogshit
Not even close. She’s good. It’s tough to close the gap but her moves are still mostly linear. Being a nobushi requires skill, if youre a light spammer they get wrecked. Gryphon is just brain dead.
@@unknowingreaper6556 th-cam.com/video/8za8TZv4XpQ/w-d-xo.html
This falls under this topic i would say. Imo she was never dogshit since season 6 but i can See why some people thought so. But Just because a character is underpowered it doesnt mean unhealthy/unbalanced stuff has to stay in the game.
Im a big brain nobu main and for the first time in years i feel joy.
Thick Blood.
Oof
Honestly needs a nerf or a straight up removal
@@fearspackofwolves699 I assume you main a Assassin or nobushi
@@fearspackofwolves699 should 100% be removed. Ubi need to stop adding feats that just remove game mechanics (Thick Blood, Rocksteady).
@@Chinesepotato no I play everybody it’s just fundamentally broken
Great video and I appreciate hearing your stance on the characters, particularly PK, your argument for the deflect change is very strong especially considering that accidentally using riposting stab can get you killed in some instances.
I main PK myself and I hold my hands up and admit I've complained about PK's damage and have used her inability to confirm kills/execute as frequently as other heroes as an argument for her damage values. However, I have also advocated that her damage values fell in line with other heroes and that bleed was huge component within that, bleed has a lot of advantages as you've said but PK, especially now cares for the duration of her opponents bleed as opposed to how much damage she deals with it.
Her triple GB stab is absurd and needs to come down naturally but with regards to her heavy to deep gouge ratio, her deep gouge could have easily taken a damage nerf (maintaining bleed duration) to justify the 5 damage buff on her heavies, she would have still fell within the damage range set by the CCU in that regard and it would have alleviated some of her issues, one of which naturally is all her bleed damage being wiped away at the touch of a button from healing.
Her dodge attack obviously has problems, fixed input, poor hitbox and inability to chain for safety. Though I'd have settled for a variable input and a new chain option for the girl. After seeing the feedback Ubi gave in their post regarding the results of the testing grounds I honestly wonder if the majority of players filling it in only fought her as opposed to playing her.
Anyhow, rant over. Thanks for the breakdown. Very helpful. 🙂
i will have to dissagre,
i rly think that people overstimate the utilitly of bleed dmg
bleed atacks from pk takes from 5 to 10 seconds to get full value,
and that is time that the enemy can use to counter atack, and they cannot get executed by this dmg
deep gouge is a extra light on top a heavy in a greater period of time,
he having a sligth less raw dmg value
intead of 30~25 raw like some of the cast
heavys on the 22 ~ 25 dmg range should do,(i still think that her top heavys should do something special or just a lot more of raw dmg as the lose the feint into dagger cancel) and if that is too much reduce a bit the bleed dmg, but raw + bleed should alway be more than just raw,
and a full bleed atack should do a lot more than a full raw atack, because of the time the oponent have after the atacks lands to do something,
for the topic of the gb,
pk does 38 dmg, then goues back to neutral and in the case wicht that dmg would have kill the enemy, he still haves 10 to win the fight, (or clean that dmg)
for the rest of the cast, if you got a gb you usually get a heavy starter (usually the weaker side, unless you get a wall)
average 25~22 plus usually that lead into a chain, usually you can follow with a light or get into a mixup by now, so you have to add a 2/3 of a light or whatever mix up finisher the character have,
so minimun you get 0dmg (blocked) on average you can get a light dmg, 12 or if you got a strong mix up a heavy finisher (30~ 25)
so in average most of the cast can get 37 dmg of a gb tha will instaly kill the oponent,
i can see that his dmg are in line with the rest of the cast, but i would argue that she could have even a bit more than she as now, because of the low dps bleed has,
edit : sry for the long rant, tx for reading
@@vicio19995 The rest of the cast having the potential of a 37 damage average from a GB is not the same as having 38 confirmed damage from GB. Average punish of GB is 24 (800ms heavy) with the average wall punish being around 27 (900ms heavy). There's obviously character exceptions like Raider, Kensei and Gryphon to name a few.
PK shouldn't be exempt from this damage average because bleed can be cleansed or because her heavies without bleed fall behind in damage numbers. Nor should she be allowed to retain a high GB punish because she hasn't got multiple chain options. Her GB stabs do put her in neutral yes but she's also frame advantaged and with her changes she's frame advantaged often. If anything the argument to be taken from all these points is that there is need for more change rather than less as currently Peacekeeper stands in a state of underpowered in some aspects and overpowered in others. A few changes could dramatically increase PK's viability and keep her in a state of balance by comparison to the rest of the roster, changes like:
1. Healing should not cleanse bleed the way it currently does. (Mechanical change to the game that affects more than just PK but directly affects her viability due to her kit being dependant on bleed).
2. Peacekeeper needs a new chain option. Heavy, light, Heavy with deep gouge removed on openers. This ensures that her GB heavy punish gives her additional options alongside chain pressure. Another way to access 400ms chain light and forces PK players to choose an appropriate punish on GB, stabs for bleed or heavy for chain pressure. (Heavy opener would likely need a damage buff to compensate lack of deep gouge but still lower than finisher heavy).
3. Triple stab damage brought down to a respectable and fair damage range without reducing the bleed duration.
4. Reduced bleed damage from deep gouge and increase damage on dodge attacks and finisher heavies without affecting bleed duration. (-5 bleed and +3 raw).
Without taking into account other issues, like her dodge attack. These changes fulfill the criteria of normalising her damage whilst retaining her bleed advantages, giving her additional chain options whilst adding depth to her kit, allows PK to function in a 4v4 environment without healing shutting down or undoing her offense and fits the developers intentions of having PK be a hero that functions at her best in tandem with the bleed mechanic without sacrificing her damage or ability to confirm kills on raw hits.
@@Mattman_90 while i rly like this approach, i still am on the thought that assasing should be on the upper end of dmg, even more if is a bleed aproch,
1 i completly agree that heal, should just heal your missing hp, not cleanse bleed,
ig we do that that is bit of dmg we can take of all bleed dmg
2while i like your changes, heavy light chain, (maybe we could keep deep gauge in all heavies by ending chain using GB button after landed heavy? )
i think the core problem is bleeding dmg in itself,
is tedius and unfun for both the oponent, and the user my points,
is so slow that if you would die from it, you feel like you are already on a deadth clock respawn but at least you can do one last try before going down,
and for the user, it gets in the way of getting executions and, having to keep waiting for the op to die is just unfun,
it get cleanse by heals, but that is already point 1
i rly thing that the big change should be complety reworked,
3 , while bleed is still in his current state triple stab has to remaing as the highest gb punish of the game,
doing 38 dmg but giving 10 seconds to you opponent to cacht on is too long of a time as a refenrence you give him 4+ heavy/heavy chains, if they get you in a mix up they could kill you faster for a dmg you already guaranteed, and lose the fight,
4. i completly agree, with a note,
i think (and this go for every assasing and heavy dogue atack,) it should be a chain starter, and with point 2 ,
to choose if you want to stab deep gauge( gb button) or light/heavy chain,
for normal dmg dogue heavys we are in 16 ,
we have the option of confrim bleed so reduce 1 point of raw for 3 of bleed we can confirm,
i think good balance should be 13 - 9 so the spot or close, for exe, and counting that could be a a chain starter i think it coul be fair ( ajust numbers a bit i dont mind)
what do you that think?
@@vicio19995 I understand the thought process of you wanting PK to retain a high damage GB punish due to bleeds current interaction with healing. However that damage value is too high currently, would become even more absurd if still in the live game with healing no longer cleansing bleed. Those kind of balance changes can't be an if/or scenario, bleed and fire being cleansed is fundamentally bad for the games health over all and needs to be altered despite PK's high damage GB punish. (It just directly affects PK's viability because of her kit). By the same metrics though, PK's GB stabs being so high is also detrimental to the games balance on its own especially now that PK has means to get a successful GB more often. That kind of damage is simply too high for one punish.
Bleed being tedious and unfun is purely subjective but even if you feel that way, having the bulk of her damage be raw instead of bleed would reduce the tedium. Her bleed becomes a supplementary source of damage than enables the better parts of her kit. It's duration remaining the same ensures PK doesn't lose access to her pressure when she lands a bleed but the lower bleed damage allows her raw damage to be increased.
Regarding my proposed new chain, I don't think retaining deep gouge on heavy opener is a good idea. It gives PK too much, she'd have a guarenteed bleed which then would let her chain into an unblockable finisher. As long as you landed a heavy opener, you'd always have that pressure and that's too strong. By removing deep gouge on openers, PK players will have to be careful to maintain bleed on their opponents and use the right punishes for the right situations. With another way to access that 400ms light she not only makes her chain attack less predictable but gives her a tool that can help her in 1v2, letting her tag opponents team mates trying to interrupt her mid chain. On top of that it if her opponent is bleeding, the light becomes enhanced meaning she gets chip damage. Might not be a lot of damage but that's the beauty of bleed, it makes chip damage lethal. And of course it deals damage under shields too.
I agree that her dodge attack lacking a chain option to make it safe is negative for her but I'm not sure how to actually make a change for it that would be fair and balanced so I'll settle for it having a variable input window. Ultimately though it could be just down to reducing the recovery on whiff so it's vulnerable to dodge attacks and not GB. (Of course that's a whole new can of worms for the cast that don't have side dodge attacks).
There's no real right or wrong answer here as everyone has different ideas, the devs did make PK better without a doubt but I'd say the devs failed at making her viable for tournaments. My proposed changes might not necessarily be the answer to that but I do think if they were implemented she'd be a better hero at what the devs want from her and she would be more widely acknowledged as a good and balanced hero. She would still have shortcomings but that's perfectly fine, the rest of the team is there to cover for that as she will undoubtedly fill a role that a different team member cannot do.
Respect 🙌 good sir
I can’t believe I’m scared to fight Nobushi now, I can’t just make a fool of her with glad’s dodges
(This is a good thing)
Personally I always found her good against glad thanks to hidden stance and dodge combos
@@stopyouneedhelp6115 I remember old hidden stance... Bullying highlanders and wardens was quite fun. Wardens actually had countermeasures, but 99% of them were too braindead to use them
I have not enjoyed Nobushi so much as I have been currently. Really awesome buff.
Nobushi looks like she's got style now. Those new chains make it so smooth
rep 7 pk, saw the testing grounds, for one month straight I was failing deflect attack cause pressing m2. It is far better now.
I would add the unblockable and damage buff allowed me to use new strategies like gb --> heavy --> dagger things like that. It changes from the light spam and heavies only used to bait.
I think the only thing nobu needs now is greater range in her kick. This way, the offensive mixup from hidden stance is actually viable. Right, now the kick only lands if you are almost point blank from hidden stance. If it had a usable range, then it would make her offensive glow even better given how she can recovery cancel with hidden stance
personally disagree - i usually hidden stance someone heavy / light then kick, from here the opponents usually used up more stamana in their attacks and I am winning the stamana race as I call it
Nah, kick is good already, use it defensively! Not just offensively
nah piss off, just more of an excuse for annoying nobushis to abuse their range
I've got 52 reps on PK, and I agree with your comments. My other huge issue with her dodges are that they move you out of position relative to your opponent in a 1v1. Other dodge attacks keep you at a range where you can continue your offense, but the lateral movement on her dodges means that she can get too far away from the enemy and have to close the gap. There's no need for this, especially since she needs to be up close to be effective. They feel so clunky, especially after playing other heroes with proper dodge attacks.
Thank you freeze for this video, I just returned to For Honor after a 2 year break and Nobushi was my main and I was confused when I saw so many nobushis in matches as well as having so much different things to her since I was playing her like she was before that, now I can work to improve on the Newbushi :D Also, great video
suggestion on the bleed-healing-issue: make the heeal remove half of the bleed, while healing the full amount of 25hp (correct me if I'm wrong)
Nah, just make it heal without cleansing bleed.
Man the Nobushi changes are feeling amazing and I’m happy to see a lot more nobu mains coming back to the character she feels so fluid and fun now
PeaceKeeper: People tend to dodge + heavy as a response to an attack. Making it also a deflect makes it an interesting Option Select move. It is welcome imo.
The main issue of it it removes some player control
There are some scenarios where Dodge attacks also would be preferable over a Dodge attack
I.e, Hyper armor Deflects
Glad to know what Advancing Thrust finally is.
Genuinely through it was just Cobra Strike like you said.
As a PK main I am quite happy with her changes. Regarding her damage I think it is basically a misconception as PK is designed to be a "damage over time" character, aka, bleed centered. One thing that I would love to see for all heroes is a potential Damage per second normalised by the heroe's health and / or stamina pool. I think the current iteration of PK bumps her up significantly on the tier list and her sinergy with Shaman is even stronger now with the new changes but in my uneducated opinion her low survivability will keep her away from the competitive scene. On the other hand I reckon we'll start seeing more nobu. Her kit is solid now and with her changes she can bully kenseis in mid, but I don't play nobushi so don't take my word for it.
Don't know why but I was never really able to dodge the kick, but for some reason I dodge more kicks than before the rework. Odd
personally i found it easier to just dodge back
her kick is short ranged so dodge back
because even if she does an undogable heavy at least your camera is centred and you can react to it a lot more
sometimes I found myself dodging the kick but then getting hit by like, her toe or something and it still hits me. could just be the ping or something idk
@@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial depends on your character I think
please note I use PK quite a bit and nobu a lot
I couldn't do this movement with raider for example unless i rolled
side note i've only had the game for almost 2 weeks so I am speaking from my experience and trying to let others know what works for me there is probably something better out there
I think pk is in a good spot right now, to be honest I didnt even notice the nobu changes but I didnt consider her bad or good before, just kind of there. I think pk's gb to triple stab dmg is just fine because it can be cleansed so easily, the idea of assassins was that theyre good in 1v1s and deal lots of damage in those situations but arent exactly perfect in teamfights, I think this applies here, pk deals huge amounts of bleed damage but in a teamfight this is negated easily with shields, healing and so on, while in 1v1s the other player needs to simply outplay the pk. I think this fits her design and dont mind it. I am also happy to see more than one pk every week at all now, this popularity probably wont stay forever but I still like seeing more than gryphon in a lobby. (also I played pk before the patches and its nice to feel like more than a piece of paper with dull razorblades on the opposing corners, and having a chance of killing gryphon is also nice).
Very well stated I agree her triple bleed stab is in a good spot I could see a slight nerf but nothing below 30 damage
@@fearspackofwolves699 considering that most raw heavies dont deal that much damage but all the new heroes usually outclassing everyone in damage like gryphons kick heavy follow up dealing ridiculous damage even if its not 30 and that NOT requiring to land a gb I think its perfectly alright for the gb punish to be LIKE an out of stam punish due to her out of stam punish being TERRIBLE
The kick is so nice it's not too fast where you have to read before the move even comes out, have to have a feeling, then just react see her about to kick then you can react to it unlike gryphons where you have to completely just make the right read
Being a nobu main, its actually really fun getting to be aggressive with her now when as you said people aren't used to it, one of things I've loved about her is her flow with her recovery cancels and the only problem with part of pk's damage value being bleed is the cleansing with healing and warden/nuxia thick blood feat, that's what they need to sort out instead of her damage, especially with gryphons feats.
The problem with confirmed light attacks is that they’re treated as one attack in confirmed damage and punishes, but they shorten chains and a lot of the time end offense with low net damage from chains.
Such as Shinobi opting for an extra 4 damage and being frame disadvantaged instead of taking 5 block damage on a chain heavy and frame advantage, or only throwing single lights back to neutral or increasing risk with a chain light.
PK is similar that opting for a confirmed light takes away chain pressure and many people preferred to use chain 400ms lights, with external dead-zone options, or even just locked on for high net damage even though it’s not always “confirmed” off the first attack punish.
Gryphon avoids this problem by having a 3 hit chain that accelerates his offense and he can maintain frame advantage, offense, and net chain damage even after a confirmed light chain.
Not sure how much damage Nobu’s confirmed light chain does, but she has recovery cancels to chain into that allow her to avoid this problem, someone remind me how much damage her double light does but I believe it’s also higher damage.
I really wish Shinobi had dodge recovery cancels that didn’t force a near useless backflip with no s and he could instead chain into a single dodge kick and mixup timings with a double dodge kick and maintain chain offense and mobility. But he really has a poor DPS and net chain damage and offense problem as well as almost always being frame disadvantaged.
So the argument that PK has low damage isn’t completely wrong, because you are counting 2 attacks as one and when you do that then confirmed follow up lights aren’t allowed to have an advantage other than a hit stun gank and take away from chains and offense and take more time delaying your own recovery.
There’s a lot of downsides to confirmed attacks that PK and Shinobi share that are overlooked for the sake of comparing confirmed parry punish numbers, but the net damage potential is usually less regardless of a higher confirmed punish.
And yes, 38 on GB is too much and bleed needs to stay applied regardless of heal.
This is obviously staged, no nobushi would ever dare to do smth different than walking backwards and abuse her long range with backstep lights :0
I mean I've been offensive bushi since I've picked her up like a year ago more or less. Never hard mained her cause lb is my child, but still, she is like rep 12 currently, and aside from a rep 11 warlord, rep 7 pk, and rep nine ZahnHu yeah.... Long story short between the way the stamp changes in the ccu helped ZahnHu and this mid season patch I've been having a good time....
@@samfish2550 i know u ppl who fight enjoyable exist, just like every minority overshadowed by their "bad" counterpart.
@@kilianflock9852 I mean imma be real if i got long range and I'm face a PK or orichi I'll play to that cos they can't hit me - i often condition my opponent to get used to the light
but then dash into them with a light and start a combo
against pretty much everyone else I'll be aggressive i just don't like being in cqb against most assassins in this game or anyone with really fast lights
@@kilianflock9852 I think your mentality is so widespread that it hurts the game. People shouldn't be enjoyable to fight outside of your own will to beat their strategy. The widespread mentality that you should fight a certain way so your opponent has a fair chance to do what they want to do makes competition masturbatory.
@@csquared4538 im not saying u *should* fight a certain way to be "enjoyable" to fight. Im just pointing out a certain Stereotype of playstyle (for ex. here nobu) that is by no means fun to fight.
Hey freeze can we address reflex guard please. The ccu has us not being able to react to offense yet we have a guard in the game we have to use on reaction?? It needs to go , make it happen. 🤙🏻
especially sense they removed revenge attacks like where tf are their priorities ur gonna remove revenge attacks before smoke bomb or corruption
That thumbnail 😂😍
So considering the dodge heavies can’t be chained, should they not be considered chain finishers? Meaning if the opponent is then bleeding it should be unblockable. I think that would be a nice addition if they aren’t allowing it to be chained
Zone can also go into dash heavy and dash light
I forget that every time I have a question, freeze answers it for 10 minutes.
I kinda like that bleed has a strong counter like healing. Because those that focus on bleed have a huge built in buff when fighting bleeding enemies.
I find the nobu changes quite interesting, though I wish that Ubisoft finally built up the courage to make the kick (and other semi-reactable openers) truly unreactable for everyone. The new chains and softfeints are pretty damn cool, however some of that animation skipping is just plain ugly imo. Certainly coulda used a few more days in the oven or so. But overall, I like where the current hero rebalancing they're doing is going.
I'm hoping people see this comment: For controller users you can click R3 to switch targets. For my nearly 2 years on this game I did not know this because the story teaching you to release the guard to switch targets.
Don’t know if anyone noticed this, but pk dodge stab damage was raised, also base heavy no longer can hit for 12 and now hover around 15 or 16 damage. ( I feel like the stab after heavy should be unblockable like the old pk stab in the early game)
Honestly, I wish they didn’t change the deflect input. Even on accidental deflect the window was long enough to hit the input regularly.
Changing the input was unnecessary.
Although before the new update her bleed was pointless and so the numbers were low for the stamina cost mitigated also by DoT.
Also when did her guardbreak go from 33 to 38?
Its been 38 since like, they added bleed stacking to PK iirc
I like the input
That’s not true when fighting a bunch of people and your mind is everywhere it’s very easy to miss your deflect and realize too late, as a pk main this saved me so many deflects, so quit whining
IMO it’s ok for her to have high damage as she has less hp than other heroes. It makes her like a canon glass. Correct me if I’m wrong tho
I believe PK really needed a heavy>light>heavy combo. This is how it should work:
If heavy lands you would continue with deep gouge and chains into heavy finisher.
If heavy is blocked or missed, next attack can be a normal chain light with option to go into heavy finisher after.
This should also work with the dodge attack, to make it less risky for guard breaks and to increase the flow of the character.
This will also give an extra way to activate her new unblockable finishers within a single chain. Instead of just trying to get the bleed in one combo and have to start a new combo to get the unblockables.
Nobu has so much offense that chains into each other that the only thing that can stop her is either a blocked light or depleted stamina. It's crazy
Good breakdown. I'm interested to see where they land.
I hear you about this pk dodge attack and the button corresponding with her weapons but she does an opening light with her sword too just saying.
Feels good when your mains get buffed after months of suffering
Yeah my favorite thing about pk is trying to use a heavy opener and getting gbd out of it and eating 38dmg
As far as PK goes, I really haven't heard many people complaining about her "low damage". In fact, the most popular opinion for PK after the Testing Grounds was "Add 5 damage to her raw damage, remove 5 from her bleed damage and make her bleed tick half as fast" thus allowing her to get executions, not have all her damage cleansed and still have the same amount of time with enhanced lights and unblockable finishers.
As she is now, she actually has higher damage than she really ought to, with 26 damage heavies (15 raw, 1 dagger, 10 bleed) and 33 unblockable heavies (22 raw, 1 dagger, 10 bleed). So as it is, she has very high damage heavies.
One issue I'd like to see resolved with PK is her unblockable tracking. I thought the idea of this was that it would add pressure in gank scenarios. My problem is that the range on those attacks suck. Usually, the strategy is to do a backstep light attack (as to not feed revenge) then go into the finisher heavy. However, PK stays rooted in spot when she does this, and as such adds practically zero ganking pressure.
Otherwise, I believe this was a well done buff for PK, and I think that nerfing her damage slightly, increasing tracking on her finishers and fixing that dodge attack recovery will put her into perfect territory.
I noticed nobu can now zone out of hidden stance
Nobushi is great again. After a long time she got the buff she needed. I'm in love with her.
My question is where is the shinobi rework
Why is everyone so obsessed with that character, there gonna shoot him through the roof when it finally comes time.
fun fact: nobody cares about the funny weeb hero
@@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial y’all do realize that’s the same as saying u don’t want the game to be balanced right u can’t say u want the game to be fun and balanced and forget about a hero that’s hypocritical
@@forbiddenchaos1335 okay first of all. please use commas so that your sentences are more *c o h er e n t* and second, *nobody cares about the funny weeb hero* because there's like, 7 people who play him (obviously exaggerated) and his "rework" is more of a meme than an actual request, because Shinobis concept is complete dogshit and doesn't fit the game anyways.
I'm wondering if there are new punishes with the zone now
Probably not for oos but maybe zone after a heavy parry
How can you dislike PK deflect input for covering two outcomes but support zone option selects?
I explained it... control of the outcome
Buffing the 2 heros I enjoyed most back in the day has made me come back to the game after more than a year. Pk and nobu feel fluid and good. It does seem like a lot more classes are viable now and the game is pushing to have offense be offense and not a strong defense as the best offense.
I always enjoyed the slower nature of the game, but I also think it's a much healthier way for things to go if they ever release a for honor 2 to bring in new masses, and maybe make an esports game of it.
Great vid Freeze!
It's been bothering me for a long time, even more so after Nobushi had her kick adjusted without the speed. Could unreactability not be created by controlling tracking duration? It's been bothering me, because would it really matter how fast a 566ms bash is if the dodge window is the same as a 500ms bash? That it would catch both early and late dodges, but miss on the right timing?
Still wish they would speed up the kick a little more to make it truly unreactable, I know many players including 3 on my team myself included that can consistently react to 500 ms bashes, giving players with better setups and naturally faster reaction times is unfair, and it would be nice if the devs start experimenting with faster bashes.
I think health feats are the reason people have no issue with PK's gb damage. A single heal, even in the smallest increment will completely get rid of all bleed. And considering that most players play in 4s, healing feats are very prevalent.
Can you please do a updated max punishers for peacekeeper please?
Nobushi kick is very much reactable but if they barely use it you can forget and it catches you. Imo its not bad
Man. When you see plus on hit after dagger cancel. That's insane. And nobu got black priored. Basically. Lol
I swear, I've missed so many deflects with ok after the change
I really need to undestand Nobushi because everytime i fight against her rafter the update i keep getting hit without ever knowing when its my turn.
I haven't played for honor in like 6 months, does the game feel better now?
I just got back into the game over the last 2 weeks and I can say it feels better but dont expect any miracle type changes
Gryphon:"allow me to introduce myself"
I started playing again a month ago and think it's mostly a lot of fun again
@@bonesy8218 I quite enjoy gryphon, his feats r broke but his kit isn't too bad
@@leonriley6396 bruh
I like playing as and against Nobushi now. It feels very healthy overall.
39 gb damage is surely very high, but what about JJ's sprint attack which does like 49 damage
Easy to parry while this is literally a read only (on console)
@@CarolusFlex yeah well if you're in locked on to him so maybe you're fighting someone else or not even locked on he just gets a ton of damage
@@uniqueunicorn4319 I guess, I've never actually been hit by it so I don't know.
@@CarolusFlex hey, maybe it's just me who's dumb enough to get hit by it, who knows
@@uniqueunicorn4319 thats Just a thing with all Out of Lock (OOL) punishes ... You should Hear about OOL+OOS punishes Like jorms Heavy into heavy into Hammer Slam
another problem with pk is her abysmal recoveries. If she takes a hit hes pretty much stuck getting hit.
They did well, those changes are really good for both of these underdogs. I think the only thing missing is that they should add some actual i-frames to nobushi's dodge attacks and give peacekeeper omnidirectional dagger cancel.
Now they should definetely take another direction with the warden and shugoki's reworks, since the former was busted and the latter useless in the testing grounds. The only good things were back-dodge-miserum and shugoki's hyper-lights being both deleted from the face of the earth.
I mean with shugoki they only have to let the HA on the demons embrace stay, reduce the Recovery on whiff and add the Testing grounds changes (Dodge bash and Dodge attack/Roll catcher)
Warden idk, the improved trajectories seemed cool but i dont think He really needs unblockable Chain finisher Like an easier to Play. I would Like a heavy light Combo Like WM for him
Omg a special heavy on guardbreak for peacekeeper sounds so fucking cool- Imagine if she like shanks you twice with the dagger, and then stabs you through the chest with the shortsword. That'd be AWESOME. Idk it's not the point pof why ypou suggested it, but I'd love that that sounds so cool lmao.
The other day I saw someone arguing that PK's unblockable mixup would be useless if her guardbreak punish did any less damage.
nobushi is like shamen with her unrelenting chains she just doesn't have a bite though. I'm sure this makes sense.
Make her bite undogable. And maybe it might make sense
Uhhh, how is it possible that you don't know PK gets side heavy on gb? This has been a thing for ages now., and was changed specifically so she gets more executions.
If they buff her kick would she not be consider a Gryphon
Wow that's a pretty cool rework! As soon as I got I PS5 I'll re-download the game just to play Nobushi
I have never thought nobushi was weak, maybe because i only got mine to rank 9, who knows. I main warden exclusively for the bleed protection, out of pure fear of nobushis and peacekeepers, and now both of them are so much stronger.
The one thing i hate about PK still is the fact her heavies don't do raw 25 dmg making it pretty much impossible to get an execution.
Honestly does nobu really need way of the shark really? Extra damage passive from a character thats going to get bleed off any bash, hidden stance punish or heavy parry. They should change what it does if they do keep it
thank you for nobushi content 🙇🙏
Wait can’t she heavy after a GB now?
In my opinion nobushi is now better than kensei in 4s.
Better ganks, faster than kensei, slightly better feats, almost equal team fights, good defensively in 1s, and arguably better mid clear. I am really happy to see her back in comp! She doesn’t replace any of the characters now, but is still in like top 6.
yeah it very stupid to make heavy input a deflect for pk
nobu do be looking like highlander with sped up lights, she has softfeints that dont fit at all animation wise
you should make the next video about jorm hes feeling kinda weak recently
Meanwhile I've just been dying while playing offensive nobu for like over a year now cause I still liked the flow.... Same with pk so this patch was honestly like the literal best thing for me. Also pk still shreds through hp.
Also I agree on the deflect
Flying nobushi and smol pk to the rescue
Playerbase:"what about shinobi?"
Ubi:"who?"
Finally, it only took em a whole fucking year...
I literally cant fight nobushi anymore. On ps4 I get light and bleed spammed to the point where i can't move or block the attack. Then they turtle when i attack and continue spamming after
thats nobushi at least skills , playing her the right way is kinda risky but it’s fun asf
I have a question freeze
Does latency affect the timing of full block/hidden stance?
Cause half the time I input it but it doesn't register and I get whacked when it should've went while opponents can pull it off without even trying.
Yeah, monitor and controlled input latency is the common culprit. Upgrade monitors if possible, and definitely work in training mode tweaking your dead zone in the advanced controls under settings. Takes practice, for sure. PS4 player here, btw. The input delay can be brutal.
@@1blueeye
Thank ya I'm on xbox and I have wired controller, I think it's my latency at most (stays around 70-98) cause I can only afford satellite Internet.
(Yet I crush in Battlefront 2 lol)
I honestly like the changes quite a bit
Just did some testing. Gryphon’s max OOS Gb punish is 41 damage. What u do is throw to the right, lawbringer shove (wait until neutral), light, veteran kick, heavy. And it’s guaranteed. U can’t dodge it or parry it. The best u can do is not throw any lights or heavys and be weary of a Gb. THIS IS SO STUPID!!! Off a oos parry gryphon gets 47 max punish guarantee. Parry, double light, top heavy.
he has better punishes.
I made a whole video showing them all.
If you want to complain, at least use the correct numbers.
@@fkkfreeze I’ll take a look :)
great, nutellas nobu already kicked my ass hard enough pre buff
They both in a good spot after the changes. Both are strong now but they require actual skill. You can’t light spam. Also, I haven’t seen everyone and their mom playing them like the pervious 2 new heroes.
The only negative things I could say about Nobushi is her zone hard feint and her heavy dodge attacks being not that great for actually dodging. But I think over time I can get used to them. Overall I LOVE Nobushi, finally I can main her again! There is so much to learn and it is finally a challenge to play with the character, but in a good way. She is simply hard to play with, but she isn't OP or underpowered. I think she is a well-balanced hard-to-play hero!
Pk's gb damage is way too high. If you're getting ganked and there's a pk, as soon as you get into recovery for one reason or another, she'll gb you, meaning you eat her 38 dmg bleed + someone else's heavy + now you can't just block attacks to defend yourself as you're bleeding and chip damage can actually kill you. Oh and PK now has instant unblockables, meaning even more gank pressure. And this gets exacerbated if the gankers have several ways to inflict bleed...
Ngl i know that wardens thick blood feat just negates all bleed dmg and is somewhat broken thats why
But No way im accepting this BS on a GB
@@nuke1863 yeah. If I could enjoy and be good at warden, I'd run it only
@@therealtjpek i mean alternatively you could pick heroes with second wind, stallwart banner, Regeneration or simply gryphon to counter it, still doesnt save you from further GBs or in Duels/Ranked/brawls
that statemen, is also true but more fast for characters with a heavy gb punish, and a unblockable or bash like kensey,
but intead of having 10 sevonds to gaing revenge, or heal, you die inmediatly
For Pk I would have preferred if it was given her undodgeable side heavy enders and unblockable top heavy enders.
Just so that she could bait a bit more easily for deflects from her enemies to get a gb.
(About the problem of Pk’s none executions:
I wonder if it couldn’t be done it like this:
heavy finishers are now unblockable, but her unblockable, on successful hit, “absorbs” the current bleed dmg.
Let’s say her dmg on a heavy finisher is 18, and her bleeding opponent has a bleed tic on him for 7 points, the total dmg of her heavy is the heavy connects is 25. It would be really broken to see that happening after a full gb punish LOL.
No deep gouge afterwards.)
That said, I think her gb “kidney theft” punish still deals way too much dmg! How much is it? 38?
Make it 27 (three stabs per 9 bleed dmg) and she’ll be fine!
Also, I honestly don’t understand why her deflect is now a heavy input, it’s just stupid imo.
27 dmg in the long term of 10 seconds
mind that your enemi can do 4+ heavy combos, on that time,
@@vicio19995 what are you trying to explain though? Sorry I haven’t got it
@@wolvenedvard3049 sry, i was refering about lowering the dmg on the stabs,
even if is a lot you still have to consider a few things,
her acces to a gb: now we have a unblock if eny bleeds so we have a bit easier, (not muchs with zone op selects running arround)
the ticks takes full 10 seconds to get the dmg in,
so in that time, you can react or even kill the pk, a lot of heroes can do 4+ heavy combos mix up on the time it takes to bleed to dead
compare that to a 25/30 raw hit that will kill you on the spot,
for comparison, you are getting a worth of a heavy + less than a light of a normal character of pk gb in the time of 10 seconds,
and that dmg can be reverted by the mayority of the cast in certaing modes
i think, i explained that bit better, sry for gramm, tx for reading,
i m open to dicuss this if you wanna
@@vicio19995 That's understandable, I get the argument now. :D
@@wolvenedvard3049 great have a noce day, is nice when people actually try to understand things politely
The problem I have with PKs damage is that she can't execute for shit. It often means I have to rely solely on bounty hunter, which got nerfed recently so it gives less than most executions.
what about devour
I've found that i can replace bounty hunter with stealth and use devour on my armour and I do fine
maybe that's just me?
@@reelgesh51 the Perk devourer (+15hp) only activates on executions, while the feat bountyhunter (+25hp) activates on a kill ( doesnt matter If your opponent gets executed)
@@nuke1863 oops I just realised how dumb I was lmao
sorry bout that
@@reelgesh51 No Problem dude
If only all of pickles bleed wasn't completely irrelevant the second a nobushi/kensei etc. drops a smoke cloud on you on a base that they own.. I'd rather have her raw damage back over bleeding, I'd personally prefer the bleed toned way down and the damage up a little bit, like the 5 increase did but without the ridiculous bleed ontop of that.
Is it just me or is tiandi’s dodge light animation all fucked up now? Also the ram on breach, the soldiers seem to chant more.
Yeah, I was playing him the other day. Is it just me or does it look like he does a weird little half-spin now?
@@brockbaker549 I was playing him last night and yes. It is exactly that. If you do is dodge heavy and soft feint it to dodge light it looks alright but on its own it’s rough now for some reason.
Yeah its a known issue
Pls buff nuxia
1) Make her trap deal 25 damage
2) Make every Zone performed after a 2nd chain move have undodgeble properties (both for the attack and for the trap)
3) Fix her trap. Make it work consistently against OS and CC.
Nuxia rework ideas
You have to change your guard to light them out of the trap or you get caught by it early parries will also get caught by trap
Undodgeable chain zone
Give her a new neutral zone that option selects or speed up her zone to 700 ms n make it non-feintable from neutral
Unblockable heavy finishers on all sides
Forward Dodge kick that confirms a light like cent with the ability to fast light after a whiffed kick if you don’t you have gb vulnerability
Maybe faster side dodge lights and maybe a side dodge kick or sweep with gun vulnerability after a whiff
All kicks/ sweeps would guarantee her parry to light follow up repost
Nobushi can get 45 damage heavies with revenge and its just nuts
That’s revenge for you as I agree that her damage values could be tweaked plenty of characters could do the same thing in revenge if not even more damage depending on the move
Nobushi used to be meta before?