He’s likeable, writes beautifully and by all indications will make a great doctor. When even Dr Gray can’t find much to criticize you know these med schools missed out on an absolute gem.
Sorry about your dad's passing last year. I think the gap year is for the best. You'll be at a much better headspace to handle med school when you get in. Best wishes.
My husband’s dad passed the fall he was not accepted to med school- we were already married at the time. (His first cycle.) Had he been in med school he wouldn’t have been at the hospital with his mom and brother and he would have felt the pressure to be in class. He was accepted the next cycle and 20 years later is an amazing physician still. You’re going to do GREAT. I’m so sorry for your loss. We have lived this and you will come out of it stronger for walking through this. My husband spent the year working at a physicians office for minimum wage but it was the experience that counts.
What a strong applicant, seems he must’ve slipped through the cracks at all the top schools he applied to. I’m sure whatever he does over the gap year/s will strengthen his application even more and will get him tons more interviews in the next cycle.
To everyone watching, Dr. Gray’s advice helped me get into an MD with a 500 MCAT and a 3.68 GPA. Listen to him because I honestly don’t think I would’ve made it without these videos.
@@johna.6985 I’m falling in line with Dr. Grays assessment. It’s really hard to tell in this case. At the end of the day, be true to yourself. If you’re successful in that it’ll come through in your application. When Dr. Gray says don’t check boxes...don’t. Don’t force a cookie cutter narrative.
I wish we could send this video to all of the schools that he applied to and plead his case. Clearly he has a good heart, and you can tell his Dad's death is painful to talk about. God Bless you; you will be a wonderful doctor!!
Seeing his application getting rejected felt very unpleasant! His application almost mirror the application I seek to build. There are just not so many things one can do to stand out from the pool of applicants aside from making achievements that in itself, is more difficult than a med school acceptance. But it is the competitiveness of medicine that makes becoming a doctor such an attractive career choice though, and as an incoming college freshman, I would still be working towards becoming a physician. Even though all the pre-meds here would be competing against each other for the same spot, I wish everyone good luck!!
his app is soooooooo good its crazy he hit every box, he's personable, stories are funny, super smart kid... this vid is TERRIFYING tbh lol he's a way stronger applicant than me
I am kind of dumbstruck looking at this guy's application because it's very similar to my own, and for me this really hammers home the importance of target vs. reach schools. Many of these schools are a reach even for stronger applicants though.
clearly a very strong applicant and i hope he gets off the waitlist this cycle. i think his school list was definitely top heavy with a lot of low-yield schools also. my other thought is that his secondary essays seem rushed with many typos.
it's honestly insane to me that he didn't get in. his application is so good, even if there was only 1LOR, I think his other accolades speak for themselves?? i really hope he gets off that waitlist :')
I'll be honest, I think this kid didnt make it because he doesnt have an "x factor" that makes him incredibly unique and stand out from the rest of the pack. He's gunning down top 30s, and these are schools that weed through 1000s of 3.9 519+, and he didnt bring alot to the table. But like Dr. Gray said, theres nothing you can really do to drastically change that, not everyone is a D1 athelete, 3 pubs, Nonprofit starters. I think he should have applied to schools based on fit rather than just stats, but the problem is he's a tad too generic, making him a fit by stats rather than by passion. Best of luck to this wonderful student.
@@ayyyAYY-x2g Most premed advisors have not even been close to med schools, doesnt disqualify people from critiquing applications. Everyone can only go so far as to tell you what doesnt work in an application rather than what does work. Top schools look for leaders in the field, which obviously makes sense, and I just dont see his promise in a compelling narrative. Rather bland in fact aside from his hard work and stellar grades. Frankly, I don't know who you are, and I don't care what you think either.
I see a lot of people focusing on the LORs. Would love to know if that was a packet/committee letter or truly just one letter. I’m guessing it was the former, and in that case it shouldn’t be an issue. If it’s the later, then we found our reason why he didn’t get in.
The Georgia Tech LOE is a letter packet: www.prehealth.gatech.edu/how-it-works (thanks commenter @Daniel Burke). So let's focus on the rest of his application since I'm sure his letters were solid.
Thank you so much for sharing. Few applications on App Renovation are already this well refined, and when Dr. Gray gets this nitpicky we're able to get a great look into why something is subtly imperfect. Big lesson in school choice here
He deserved a hell of a lot more interviews and I’d be remiss if his Asian male identity and having high educated parents did not negatively impact his application.
I wonder if it’s because he’s is Asian and schools are just discriminating since they already have their quota of Asians. This guy is a phenomenal applicant and should reapply.
@@strategic1710 It seems to be getting worse and worse and schools aren't really looking at the negative effects it may have for both parties. Schools are asking about equity instead of equality, can't have both at the same time.
I don’t even think his school list is that competitive! He has some schools that are less prestigious. Who knows what went wrong-which is the scary part
He was competing with other Asians that’s why, like Asians to those schools probably applying with 4.0 GPA and 528 with crazy experiences maybe that’s why
My application is frighteningly similar to this gentleman's app. I was also obese as a child and was bullied as a result. Additionally I overcame the same challenge with long distance running. Furthermore, I have similar activities and background to this applicant. I feel that while his stats and activities were impressive, I found his writing to be unspiring and overall dificult to read. I found myself getting lost in reading his essays since his writing did not flow as freely as I wished. Additionally his secondary essays such as the "goals" prompt was very repetitive.
Surprised no one is saying the obvious. This kid didn't get in because he is an Asian male with two parents that have PhDs. He doesn't fit the underprivileged minority student who had to overcome racism and poverty that schools are looking for these days. I'll probably be banned from youtube for saying it, but this kid should be outraged over this obvious discrimination. His application is excellent; he should have gotten offers from all over. I wish you the absolute best man. Maybe apply to Mercer and Morehouse, being in Ga like your undergrad.
Bro normally I would agree that background does indeed play a factor, but look at his GPA. 3.81 and 3.79, solid but the low end of the median at over half the schools he applied to. 519 MCAT, again the median. So over half the matriculated students at schools like Harvard and Sinai have better stats than him - how did he stand out among a sea of applicants with the exact same stats as him? His activities were great but not truly stellar, and unfortunately that likely hurt his application. And yes, being Asian likely did not help him. But that race card is an oversimplification in this scenario, as it is in most others. Also Morehouse is an HBCU, they are the exact kind of school you cited that is looking for students who had to overcome racism and poverty.
@@itsot12 I only suggest an HBCU because he would be a minority; ironic, I know. Nonetheless, this guy would have absolutely been interviewed at most of these schools if he were anything other than an asian or white male. No question.
Hi Dr. Gray, I was a bit confused by what you said at 15:20. I am currently writing my personal statement and have been getting it checked out by a couple of medical students, and they encouraged me to do "call-backs" in my personal statement, connecting my experiences caring for patients with my own experience as a patient. They say that it "connects my overall theme" well. What do you say about this? Do you think it is okay to put "call-backs" in my personal statement?
There is an elephant in the room here. He is an Asian male, who frequently will have to produce a “more perfect” application than any other. In addition, the process has become more of a crapshoot with very low acceptance rates that defy explanations. When schools care more about boosting stats to raise their rankings to increase alumni donations, it is more about whether a school thinks the applicant will commit to the school than whether the candidate is qualified.
I plan on going to medical school to be a psychiatrist, I am barely going to college this fall so I don't have much experience but I want to know what I should do for my application. My desire to become a psychiatrist is driven by my experiences with my family and my own self, so would it be too specific to talk about these motivations in my personal essay? You said that I people shouldn't state a specific career path in the application, but I am really deadset on being a psychiatrist (or even a neurologist) because of my motivations. Of course, things could always change as I go through college, but as of now, that is what I want. like I wouldn't be talking about mental illness, but how seeing my mom struggle with it severely and how that motivated me to become a psychiatrist. Especially since her disorder is surrounded with stigma and such. I want to explain how I desire to rewrite those narratives, come up with different methods of therapy/healing and help people in need. It's probably basic though :/
A really strong application! I think a broader school list would've helped, especially applying DO as well-the more schools you can apply to (within reason), the better the odds.
The most meaningful research experience was only for 65 hours over 3 years? That comes out to working only about 1.8 hours per month, and this is most meaningful for him! hmmmm.
He’s Asian, that’s likely why he didn’t get in. Unfortunately you can’t do an application renovation video on don’t be Asian. It is kind of depressing watching these videos with my 3.5gpa, no research, and little volunteering. I guess 30 somethings just have different apps than 20 somethings. Good luck to him.
@Tony Wheeler I agree and disagree with that. I hope the first sentence about being black giving a free pass to med school is hyperbole because it’s ridiculous. You still have to work really hard, it’s just that being a non-eastern minority has the effect of adding 5-10 points to your mcat, 0.3 points to your gpa, and giving a good tear jerker personal statement.
I hate to say this, but most students I saw with excellent applications who were not accepted were asian male. Simply based on this phenomenon, I can't help thinking there is some bias in the application process.
There is 100 percent bias in the application process if the admission officer is let’s say Indian he or she will probably hold bias towards Indian applicants
I do think that schools are also looking for students that fits their mission statement and what they particularly are trying to do to build their own community. I would say it is a mistake to not apply to at least one in-state school since you’re most likely going to get accepted if you do. (There is a preference for in-state student) The bigger the medical school usually the less picky they are about certain aspect but still a good rounded student should be considered. Though if you want to apply to your favorite school go ahead but certain schools have certain preferences for certain type of student this goes from college to medical school. (Maybe a mathematical mindset might not be what they are looking for but more teamwork, leadership, and being able to understand patient, etc) At the end of the day once the school spots are filled your chance of getting in is 0 to none. (Would recommend applying to big public medical college that has 250+ spots)
But personally, overall, he has a very strong application and i’m very sure the admission officers at these very top schools are very nitpicky about certain aspects. I do think mission statement is also a primary consideration for admission.
I don’t know, particularly what the officers were looking for but i’m pretty sure the mission statement was one of it. th-cam.com/video/VCJtIl88pcw/w-d-xo.html
I think the applicant should have shared more about how he felt during those patient interactions and how his work was meaningful and the effects it had for his patients while transversely incorporating the motive for why wanting to pursue medical school, versus typing up "I" redundantly. There were some moments where he talked about how he felt about his patients, but it was not strongly convincing as to why medicine. Also, I think it's best to show versus tell, have the reader see exactly to what is going on.
Success in clinical Medicine is primarily about having very finely tuned soft skills/EQ and leadership skills. You are treating a person not a disease. You can tell very quickly at med school interview which candidates display these skills.
People reading secondary essays are trained to screen out applicants based on specific things they are looking for. The secondary essay question that was asking about diversity and what can you contribute to the MEDICAL SCHOOL community is really asking about what he can contribute to the incoming class, not about improving solutions in clinical research and patient care. It was asking about what can you contribute to the class, not as a physician but as a classmate. The question also emphasized that they are really committed to choosing their students based on what they can contribute and all he said was math. Are they going to contribute leadership? A non-trad point of view? Oh, I see he is going to add math to the class. Some schools screen based on specific answers that they are looking for (whether it be mission statement or their core values) and he was unable to provide that answer or even answer the question. It just shows that he did not do enough research on what the school was looking for. Since the next question is asking about leadership, it seems like the school values leadership a lot and he probably would not be screened out if he said he can add leadership to the class or tutor his classmates or something helpful that the school values. I’m not sure if he did the same with his other secondaries, but the most common mistake is not doing enough research on the school and not answering what the question is really asking. :)
Shotgun approach to choosing schools. Unfamiliar with mission and poor communication skills in not understanding and answering the questions. It was the diversity identity question and he bragged about his math skills
That's been a point of discussion on many forums. Some say do, some say don't. I've seen great pieces of writing with and without them. Depends how you verbally speak, in my opinion. I'm applying this cycle and used them in mine. If I don't get in, I'll apply to Ryan Gray's services and see if he reams me for them. Keep an eye out for me.
He's East Asian, so he's competing with other East Asians who trump his excellent application. His 519 MCAT and 3.8 GPA competes against an army of East Asian applicants who have MCATs in the 520s and 3.9 to 4.0 - and great extracurriculars to boot! That's the #1 reason he got rejected, but Dr. Gray thinks race doesn't matter so he didn't mention it. Whenever a black applicant gets accepted with a 505 MCAT and a 3.3 GPA, he brushes aside that race had an impact. #2 reason this student got rejected was that he had an overly ambitious school list.
hmm, I hope in his interview he didn't talk through his fist. Did I miss an explanation of that... like did he just get jaw surgery and didn't want to show the stitches?
@Tony Wheeler Your misplaced bias against black people is comical and stands out. The anger at the system is valid and understandable, but there’s no need to discard the accomplishments of a race or encourage using them as pawns to somehow relieve your frustration. Kind of alarming coming from a physician to-be, but hopefully this is something you will improve on in the future, or at the very least will not impact how you treat black patients.
Simply untrue. Most people have activities they’ve done for hundreds of hours on their app. For example I had 2000 hours as a medical assistant. Doesn’t mean I want to be a medical assistant my whole life. It just shows continued dedication to a clinical experience
@@cocococo9258 I think her rationale is that as a pharm tech, you are working closely with a pharmacist. And as a medical assistant, you work more closely with a physician. So if you work lots of hours as a pharm tech, you are working more with a pharmacist
Wow, i just finished the video. I am so sorry. Please don't give up. He seems like an amazing person who I would love to have as my doctor (in the future, of course, LOL).
The stats is not really impressive among the ORMs, the schools he applied to are thus too top-heavy. My son sent out his primary application roughly one month ago. He has a 3.9 GPA from an Ivy-league University, a GMAT score of 523, and he has always wanted to serve people as a physician. However, as a ORM, uderstanding the reality, my son's humble dream is to be admitted to any of the medical schools in USA that want him!
On the othe hand, it is really unfair when people like him cannot be trainned to be a physisian, but those with 3.0GPA AND 4xx MCAT are taking up the seats. Afterall, all patients would want more prepared and more capable physicians to treat them!
It might have been a letter packet. My school does this and basically all my letters are together under the name of my advisor. It looks like one letter but I have several letters in there.
I thought letter packets still only count as one letter? If that’s the case, he likely didn’t meet the minimum for a lot of schools. If I recall correctly, MSAR says a packet counts as one letter but it’s possible I’m thinking of the committee letter. I’ll check at some point
I feel that this student is lacking a lot of confidence. He seems nervous and edgy all the time. I think he would benefit from learning to be prouder and more sure of himself. I know he is probably using a mic, but his mouth was covered the entire time. All the same, he seems to not want to speak up on behalf of himself and put himself forth as an able and confident person. I suspect that’s why he wasn’t successful. I hope he has since gotten an offer.
Kinda late to this video but looking at his personal statement, I can see why he may have not gotten into medical school. I feel his personal statement is good enough but not great. His stories were great in concept but his writing felt a bit inconsistent. I bet some admissions committees saw his grades, demographic information, etc. and expected him to have a more cohesive essay, considering he was applying to mostly top medical schools. I hope he got into medical school by now since he more than deserves to be there. I still don't get how people like him get rejected for not being perfect but others who are far from perfect join medical school and quit immediately.
in the grand scheme of things, he's actually an ordinary applicant.. his list of schools are looking for extraordinary activities. he's not working with any professors on research ideas he came up with, he hasn't gotten any awards, wrote books, etc. not saying he has to cure cancer, but there are thousands of asians who are just as qualified as he is, so it's harder to stand out. also, covering mouth was kinda awkward
He answered the “diversity question” by saying he’s good at math. He brought math into his activities. The host likes his approach but he didn’t get in to any medical schools. Begs the question...
@@rutho.6282 Is math and identity? I actually did medical school admissions. He totally missed the question math is not identity. It’s a implicit identity question. The doctor is not a mathematician. And when you think about community you don’t necessarily think about math.
@@rutho.6282 I did admissions at the University of Washington and I also was a liaison to the AAMC. Maybe you’re not in the US and you have different standards there. Diversity may not be as important to you as you were in a more homogeneous country with class differences and maybe religious differences. I don’t know
@@Diego-xn1yr I was simply just curious because the host's reasoning conflicted with your statements. I'm based in the U.S., however, I'm an incoming pre-med freshman at a 4-year so I have no idea how this stuff works as all. Thanks for providing new insights; it's always welcome.
@@rutho.6282 I didn’t mean to be abrupt but i’m an actual admissions person and I am have them in death experience with a process and have actually put on a conference with the AAMC . I didn’t mean to be abrupt, but it’s uncommon For admissions officer to inquire about math in an interview. They have the metrics. They have your grades in MCAT score. Students in this brave New World need to be able to talk about identity and diversity in clear precise terms. The host is an MD and I’m sure that he would not be pleased if someone who was not an MD got involved in medicine beyond their training. However he thinks because he’s a MD he has a ability to speak on things he has not had any real training in. Having friends who are in admissions is not sufficient just as having friends who are doctors is not be sufficient for me to diagnose disease or treat an illness
Compassionate care (empathy) is part of someone's essence, it cannot be taught. A patient do not care about your GPA or MCAT when they're sick. Medical schools aren't seeking Einstein's with horrible bedside manners. This youngman looked good on paper. I believe it was the interview that got him waitlisted. If you're the medical professional interviewing, you can smell disingenuous a mile away.
@@fifi8314 I was thinking about that too, he seems to have great personality and expresses himself well. But covering the mouth part was perplexing me, if for privacy, why not wear a mask?
I know exactly why this kid didn't get into med school. He's below the standard for asian male applicants and his school wasn't a top 10. He's wait-list fodder, no wonder so many med schools didn't take the opportunity to interview him. He needs to apply to D.O. programs or try the Carribbean!
@@tyronehill3010 that is true because the average MCAT for african americans is 505 while it is around 515 for asians and whites. HIs point is that if a black person scored has a 519 mcat, he/she would be accepted to every single school. If anyone scores that high on the mcat, they should get into med school, black or white. The problem is the system is now discriminating against asians and whites to let in other minority groups with lower than average scores.
@@JoeG2324 you have to realize you are competing against you own race and other applicants at the school you are applying to. These high stats schools have few Africans applying so you can’t say they took my seat ( not that you said this but I’m just saying ) and let’s be honest his ECs were good but if I had 10 applicants on my table and I had to offer one of them my last acceptance I’m going with the person who had longer ECs with more hours . He didn’t say he was ses disadvantaged and that’s the indicators that separates African Americans looking at data most make incomes close to the poverty line. So comparing the two makes less sense we have a shortage of African American physicians. It’s harder for them to get research my university doesn’t have any opportunities at all. I just don’t understand comparing the two races should my acceptance be taken away from me because I don’t have research? Or my gpa isn’t higher like normal Asians. Also gotta look at the story behind it. My mom has cancer and I was homeless for months. 4.0 uptrend my junior year vs my 2.1 gpa freshman year . Not saying all blacks have the same story as mine but an African and Asian in American as a whole without using outliners have different experiences
He’s likeable, writes beautifully and by all indications will make a great doctor. When even Dr Gray can’t find much to criticize you know these med schools missed out on an absolute gem.
He has such a strong application and you can tell how dedicated he is, I hope he gets off the waitlist at that one school!
Sorry about your dad's passing last year. I think the gap year is for the best. You'll be at a much better headspace to handle med school when you get in. Best wishes.
My husband’s dad passed the fall he was not accepted to med school- we were already married at the time. (His first cycle.) Had he been in med school he wouldn’t have been at the hospital with his mom and brother and he would have felt the pressure to be in class. He was accepted the next cycle and 20 years later is an amazing physician still. You’re going to do GREAT. I’m so sorry for your loss. We have lived this and you will come out of it stronger for walking through this. My husband spent the year working at a physicians office for minimum wage but it was the experience that counts.
he seems so humble and genuine. wish the best for him. amazing application too!
What a strong applicant, seems he must’ve slipped through the cracks at all the top schools he applied to. I’m sure whatever he does over the gap year/s will strengthen his application even more and will get him tons more interviews in the next cycle.
Wow, what the heck...I'm so sorry to hear what happened. I wish you the best of luck and I know we need more physicians like you!
To everyone watching, Dr. Gray’s advice helped me get into an MD with a 500 MCAT and a 3.68 GPA. Listen to him because I honestly don’t think I would’ve made it without these videos.
Wow that's awesome!
Hi makhlouf. Do u have Instagram or some way I can get in contact with you? Would like to ask u some questions for med school if it's okay with you
Can I DM you and ask you about your activities and what else you did to stand out as an applicant?
@@gabrielfattakhov9962 Same!
@@gabrielfattakhov9962 yes of course it’s the same name as TH-cam one makhlouf bannoud
New fan of the channel here. What you’re doing over here is incredible work. Binged 50 videos these last few days. Appreciate everything you do 🤝
Bro I see you everywhere. Didn’t know u were a premed lol
@@yungsab675 M4 actually. If you’re premed Dr. Gray is laying down facts 🧽
@@johna.6985 I’m falling in line with Dr. Grays assessment. It’s really hard to tell in this case. At the end of the day, be true to yourself. If you’re successful in that it’ll come through in your application. When Dr. Gray says don’t check boxes...don’t. Don’t force a cookie cutter narrative.
@@Bandstand now it makes sense why you’re discontinuing bandstand videos! good luck in residency, all the best!
I wish we could send this video to all of the schools that he applied to and plead his case. Clearly he has a good heart, and you can tell his Dad's death is painful to talk about. God Bless you; you will be a wonderful doctor!!
Seeing his application getting rejected felt very unpleasant! His application almost mirror the application I seek to build. There are just not so many things one can do to stand out from the pool of applicants aside from making achievements that in itself, is more difficult than a med school acceptance. But it is the competitiveness of medicine that makes becoming a doctor such an attractive career choice though, and as an incoming college freshman, I would still be working towards becoming a physician. Even though all the pre-meds here would be competing against each other for the same spot, I wish everyone good luck!!
Gray is a fool, you’re fine
I wish him the best. He seems like an amazing person and I know he’ll be a fantastic physician.
his app is soooooooo good its crazy he hit every box, he's personable, stories are funny, super smart kid... this vid is TERRIFYING tbh lol he's a way stronger applicant than me
This honestly scares me. You can do everything right and still not get in.
hes asian
If you are applying to Harvard and Yale, then definitely yeah
Well he applied to the top schools in the country
He also acts very shady covering his mouth isn’t a good sign
You have to be ok with not getting in, it’s crap shoot at this point since everyone has great stats and great experience.
what a kind humble genuine honest individual. So sad his father died recently. I hope he has made it!
Crazy he didn’t have more success. Hope he gets off the WL
I am kind of dumbstruck looking at this guy's application because it's very similar to my own, and for me this really hammers home the importance of target vs. reach schools. Many of these schools are a reach even for stronger applicants though.
Yea the schools he chose are too competitive. They probably see so many applicants like him and don’t think he brings anything extra to campus.
clearly a very strong applicant and i hope he gets off the waitlist this cycle.
i think his school list was definitely top heavy with a lot of low-yield schools also. my other thought is that his secondary essays seem rushed with many typos.
it's honestly insane to me that he didn't get in. his application is so good, even if there was only 1LOR, I think his other accolades speak for themselves?? i really hope he gets off that waitlist :')
I think he had a committee/composite letter, which has other letters attached
definitely combination of school list, ethnicity, and secondary answers
I'll be honest, I think this kid didnt make it because he doesnt have an "x factor" that makes him incredibly unique and stand out from the rest of the pack. He's gunning down top 30s, and these are schools that weed through 1000s of 3.9 519+, and he didnt bring alot to the table.
But like Dr. Gray said, theres nothing you can really do to drastically change that, not everyone is a D1 athelete, 3 pubs, Nonprofit starters. I think he should have applied to schools based on fit rather than just stats, but the problem is he's a tad too generic, making him a fit by stats rather than by passion. Best of luck to this wonderful student.
Hey quick question daniel, are you like a med student or have you went to medical school at all?
@@ayyyAYY-x2g Most premed advisors have not even been close to med schools, doesnt disqualify people from critiquing applications. Everyone can only go so far as to tell you what doesnt work in an application rather than what does work. Top schools look for leaders in the field, which obviously makes sense, and I just dont see his promise in a compelling narrative. Rather bland in fact aside from his hard work and stellar grades. Frankly, I don't know who you are, and I don't care what you think either.
@@danielzheng2242 dude what type of leaders there can only be 1 leader everyone doctor can not be a leader because who will they lead
I see a lot of people focusing on the LORs. Would love to know if that was a packet/committee letter or truly just one letter. I’m guessing it was the former, and in that case it shouldn’t be an issue. If it’s the later, then we found our reason why he didn’t get in.
The Georgia Tech LOE is a letter packet: www.prehealth.gatech.edu/how-it-works (thanks commenter @Daniel Burke). So let's focus on the rest of his application since I'm sure his letters were solid.
@@HM-xe8ml Well that answers that. Thanks!
@@ethankramer60 Np! Just wanted to clear up the confusion for anyone else reading the comments 😊
Thank you so much for sharing. Few applications on App Renovation are already this well refined, and when Dr. Gray gets this nitpicky we're able to get a great look into why something is subtly imperfect. Big lesson in school choice here
He deserved a hell of a lot more interviews and I’d be remiss if his Asian male identity and having high educated parents did not negatively impact his application.
Thank you for including secondaries!
I wonder if it’s because he’s is Asian and schools are just discriminating since they already have their quota of Asians. This guy is a phenomenal applicant and should reapply.
I think this is what happened. Very problematic when you have storng applicants like this getting denied.
I knew it as soon as I clicked the video. You said what everyone else is thinking but doesn’t want to ask.
@@strategic1710 It seems to be getting worse and worse and schools aren't really looking at the negative effects it may have for both parties. Schools are asking about equity instead of equality, can't have both at the same time.
Yeah I hate to say it but that’s the elephant in the room….if he was URM you know he would have been snatched up by some T20s lol
@@TS-ee7jx equality is needed… representation matters.
I feel so bad for this guy, I know he's going to make an amazing physician someday.
I don’t even think his school list is that competitive! He has some schools that are less prestigious. Who knows what went wrong-which is the scary part
He was competing with other Asians that’s why, like Asians to those schools probably applying with 4.0 GPA and 528 with crazy experiences maybe that’s why
He looks like a very good person, and I wish him all the good luck!
crazy he didnt get more interviews - got me scared
He applied to a bunch of high end schools Covid time that’s why like you saw his list he didn’t get much state schools that prefer in state applicants
He's gonna be a great doctor
My application is frighteningly similar to this gentleman's app. I was also obese as a child and was bullied as a result. Additionally I overcame the same challenge with long distance running. Furthermore, I have similar activities and background to this applicant. I feel that while his stats and activities were impressive, I found his writing to be unspiring and overall dificult to read. I found myself getting lost in reading his essays since his writing did not flow as freely as I wished. Additionally his secondary essays such as the "goals" prompt was very repetitive.
he's literally perfect!
He mentions one bad grade - a C in Abstract Algebra is nothing to be ashamed of lol. Those upper level math classes are killer.
😂
Honest question... Could his race and parent's educational background have prevented his acceptance?
Yes is the answer
Yes. That is the reason he got rejected.
No, there's many people of his background that get accepted.
No, and the people here who said yes are trolls.
@@anmariee5560 nah, i’m pretty sure affirmative action laws played a role
Surprised no one is saying the obvious. This kid didn't get in because he is an Asian male with two parents that have PhDs. He doesn't fit the underprivileged minority student who had to overcome racism and poverty that schools are looking for these days. I'll probably be banned from youtube for saying it, but this kid should be outraged over this obvious discrimination. His application is excellent; he should have gotten offers from all over. I wish you the absolute best man. Maybe apply to Mercer and Morehouse, being in Ga like your undergrad.
Bro normally I would agree that background does indeed play a factor, but look at his GPA. 3.81 and 3.79, solid but the low end of the median at over half the schools he applied to. 519 MCAT, again the median. So over half the matriculated students at schools like Harvard and Sinai have better stats than him - how did he stand out among a sea of applicants with the exact same stats as him? His activities were great but not truly stellar, and unfortunately that likely hurt his application. And yes, being Asian likely did not help him. But that race card is an oversimplification in this scenario, as it is in most others.
Also Morehouse is an HBCU, they are the exact kind of school you cited that is looking for students who had to overcome racism and poverty.
@@itsot12 I only suggest an HBCU because he would be a minority; ironic, I know. Nonetheless, this guy would have absolutely been interviewed at most of these schools if he were anything other than an asian or white male. No question.
@@josephmoore8809 yo that’s bullshit why are they mean to boys
Hi Dr. Gray, I was a bit confused by what you said at 15:20. I am currently writing my personal statement and have been getting it checked out by a couple of medical students, and they encouraged me to do "call-backs" in my personal statement, connecting my experiences caring for patients with my own experience as a patient. They say that it "connects my overall theme" well. What do you say about this? Do you think it is okay to put "call-backs" in my personal statement?
great to see another GT pre med
There is an elephant in the room here. He is an Asian male, who frequently will have to produce a “more perfect” application than any other. In addition, the process has become more of a crapshoot with very low acceptance rates that defy explanations. When schools care more about boosting stats to raise their rankings to increase alumni donations, it is more about whether a school thinks the applicant will commit to the school than whether the candidate is qualified.
This was such a great application. Thank you for sharing your story
He seems like such an amazing person and would make an incredible doctor one day.
Good luck with everything and the next cycle!! You got this :)
He's gonna get in one day!! I know it!!
I plan on going to medical school to be a psychiatrist, I am barely going to college this fall so I don't have much experience but I want to know what I should do for my application. My desire to become a psychiatrist is driven by my experiences with my family and my own self, so would it be too specific to talk about these motivations in my personal essay? You said that I people shouldn't state a specific career path in the application, but I am really deadset on being a psychiatrist (or even a neurologist) because of my motivations. Of course, things could always change as I go through college, but as of now, that is what I want.
like I wouldn't be talking about mental illness, but how seeing my mom struggle with it severely and how that motivated me to become a psychiatrist. Especially since her disorder is surrounded with stigma and such. I want to explain how I desire to rewrite those narratives, come up with different methods of therapy/healing and help people in need. It's probably basic though :/
A really strong application! I think a broader school list would've helped, especially applying DO as well-the more schools you can apply to (within reason), the better the odds.
That insane CAR score right there dang!
Taking some time off and regroup, I believe you will do well next time applying.
The most meaningful research experience was only for 65 hours over 3 years? That comes out to working only about 1.8 hours per month, and this is most meaningful for him! hmmmm.
Wow. This terrified me.
He seems so nice and like a great applicant. I wish he would move his hand from in front of his mouth though :/
yeah he seems nervous! at 30:48 especially. i don't blame him tho, I would've been wayyy more nervous
Does he have an IG or something? Would love to stay in contact to see where his journey takes him!! Will make an excellent physican💪🏼
For the shadowing, if you shadowed multiple doctors, do u just choose one name and contact info in that section?
He’s Asian, that’s likely why he didn’t get in. Unfortunately you can’t do an application renovation video on don’t be Asian. It is kind of depressing watching these videos with my 3.5gpa, no research, and little volunteering. I guess 30 somethings just have different apps than 20 somethings. Good luck to him.
@Tony Wheeler I agree and disagree with that. I hope the first sentence about being black giving a free pass to med school is hyperbole because it’s ridiculous. You still have to work really hard, it’s just that being a non-eastern minority has the effect of adding 5-10 points to your mcat, 0.3 points to your gpa, and giving a good tear jerker personal statement.
I hate to say this, but most students I saw with excellent applications who were not accepted were asian male. Simply based on this phenomenon, I can't help thinking there is some bias in the application process.
There is 100 percent bias in the application process if the admission officer is let’s say Indian he or she will probably hold bias towards Indian applicants
Just bought the new book Dr.Gray, keep up the good work!
I do think that schools are also looking for students that fits their mission statement and what they particularly are trying to do to build their own community.
I would say it is a mistake to not apply to at least one in-state school since you’re most likely going to get accepted if you do. (There is a preference for in-state student)
The bigger the medical school usually the less picky they are about certain aspect but still a good rounded student should be considered.
Though if you want to apply to your favorite school go ahead but certain schools have certain preferences for certain type of student this goes from college to medical school.
(Maybe a mathematical mindset might not be what they are looking for but more teamwork, leadership, and being able to understand patient, etc)
At the end of the day once the school spots are filled your chance of getting in is 0 to none. (Would recommend applying to big public medical college that has 250+ spots)
Not saying, not picking the right school was a mistake but I would recommend applying to;
- Medical College of Georgia, etc
But personally, overall, he has a very strong application and i’m very sure the admission officers at these very top schools are very nitpicky about certain aspects.
I do think mission statement is also a primary consideration for admission.
I don’t know, particularly what the officers were looking for but i’m pretty sure the mission statement was one of it.
th-cam.com/video/VCJtIl88pcw/w-d-xo.html
I think the applicant should have shared more about how he felt during those patient interactions and how his work was meaningful and the effects it had for his patients while transversely incorporating the motive for why wanting to pursue medical school, versus typing up "I" redundantly. There were some moments where he talked about how he felt about his patients, but it was not strongly convincing as to why medicine. Also, I think it's best to show versus tell, have the reader see exactly to what is going on.
Success in clinical Medicine is primarily about having very finely tuned soft skills/EQ and leadership skills. You are treating a person not a disease. You can tell very quickly at med school interview which candidates display these skills.
If you’re in Gainesville I’d really like to know if you offer any advice or help directly. Especially to people just entering college.
People reading secondary essays are trained to screen out applicants based on specific things they are looking for. The secondary essay question that was asking about diversity and what can you contribute to the MEDICAL SCHOOL community is really asking about what he can contribute to the incoming class, not about improving solutions in clinical research and patient care. It was asking about what can you contribute to the class, not as a physician but as a classmate. The question also emphasized that they are really committed to choosing their students based on what they can contribute and all he said was math. Are they going to contribute leadership? A non-trad point of view? Oh, I see he is going to add math to the class. Some schools screen based on specific answers that they are looking for (whether it be mission statement or their core values) and he was unable to provide that answer or even answer the question. It just shows that he did not do enough research on what the school was looking for. Since the next question is asking about leadership, it seems like the school values leadership a lot and he probably would not be screened out if he said he can add leadership to the class or tutor his classmates or something helpful that the school values. I’m not sure if he did the same with his other secondaries, but the most common mistake is not doing enough research on the school and not answering what the question is really asking. :)
Shotgun approach to choosing schools. Unfamiliar with mission and poor communication skills in not understanding and answering the questions. It was the diversity identity question and he bragged about his math skills
Lol I’ll pay for you to critique my application, I didn’t even think of this .
I think he should of applied to some more safety schools just in case.
i think having at least 2 more LORs would have really helped
Someone else pointed out that it’s a letter packet, so his school packaged all of them together
Honestly just school choice, most top 20s want much more research and pubs
agreed. perhaps more community involvement as well, altruism, etc
@@lukemolitor8896 They value more research than community service
The only thing I really saw that was missing was non-clinical volunteering
wow you should have seen my face throughout this like how the fuck
Would playing piano at the hospital count as clinical hours?
Am I the only one who thinks contractions do not belong in professional writing? 🥴
That's been a point of discussion on many forums. Some say do, some say don't. I've seen great pieces of writing with and without them. Depends how you verbally speak, in my opinion. I'm applying this cycle and used them in mine. If I don't get in, I'll apply to Ryan Gray's services and see if he reams me for them. Keep an eye out for me.
If he put his hands on his mouth throughout the interview. He will never get in.
i noticed that too lol. was he holding his mic?
@@lukemolitor8896 lol.
Literally thinking this the entire time
hes prob trying to conceal his identity
He's East Asian, so he's competing with other East Asians who trump his excellent application.
His 519 MCAT and 3.8 GPA competes against an army of East Asian applicants who have MCATs in the 520s and 3.9 to 4.0 - and great extracurriculars to boot!
That's the #1 reason he got rejected, but Dr. Gray thinks race doesn't matter so he didn't mention it.
Whenever a black applicant gets accepted with a 505 MCAT and a 3.3 GPA, he brushes aside that race had an impact.
#2 reason this student got rejected was that he had an overly ambitious school list.
Yeah he applied to all of them schools and even schools out of his state
I just got accepted this cycle too with only a 508 Mcat. Dr. Gray’s advice was a huge help! 😄
MD or DO? I also have a 508 and am a bit worried
Applying this cycle btw, should have added, congrats on the acceptance(s)
@@nicholashaynes3483 I only applied to MD this past cycle.
@@MrGreenalien22 That's awesome! Great job - I hope I am as successful as you were.
@@nicholashaynes3483 I pray the best for you this cycle. It’s definitely a mountain and valley going through it all but very worth it in the end.
Honestly his school was really competitive, especially since a lot of them are state schools
Yeah state schools that he doesn’t live in
I’m pretty sure he is prob a Texas applicant applying to out of state public schools that makes it really difficult even with those stats
wondering why his hand is in front of his mouth all the time
he is insecure, I can tell because I used to do that too. you can also tell by the tone of his voice and the frequency of his words.
Competition is why.
hmm, I hope in his interview he didn't talk through his fist. Did I miss an explanation of that... like did he just get jaw surgery and didn't want to show the stitches?
Is he talking into a mic on his headphones?
If he was URM he would have gotten in. This entire app cycle is such a crapshoot and so disappointing.
maybe not… a lot of questionably aspects in his application
@@tiarragreen5913 I disagree. I stand by my words.
@Tony Wheeler Your misplaced bias against black people is comical and stands out. The anger at the system is valid and understandable, but there’s no need to discard the accomplishments of a race or encourage using them as pawns to somehow relieve your frustration. Kind of alarming coming from a physician to-be, but hopefully this is something you will improve on in the future, or at the very least will not impact how you treat black patients.
Is it possible that his lack of non STEM classes had an impact
yikes by the time i apply 4 years down the line, competition will kill me lol
at least i can go for grad school and psychiatry
The 700 hours of pharmacy technician volunteering makes me feel like you actually want to be a pharmacist instead!
Simply untrue. Most people have activities they’ve done for hundreds of hours on their app. For example I had 2000 hours as a medical assistant. Doesn’t mean I want to be a medical assistant my whole life. It just shows continued dedication to a clinical experience
@@cocococo9258 I think her rationale is that as a pharm tech, you are working closely with a pharmacist. And as a medical assistant, you work more closely with a physician. So if you work lots of hours as a pharm tech, you are working more with a pharmacist
....I am so confused
Wow, i just finished the video. I am so sorry. Please don't give up. He seems like an amazing person who I would love to have as my doctor (in the future, of course, LOL).
*Anxiety rises*
should he have applied md phd? he wants to do research in oncology.
I don't think it was meant to be for him to get in this cycle with his dad passing. He is a great applicant!
The stats is not really impressive among the ORMs, the schools he applied to are thus too top-heavy. My son sent out his primary application roughly one month ago. He has a 3.9 GPA from an Ivy-league University, a GMAT score of 523, and he has always wanted to serve people as a physician. However, as a ORM, uderstanding the reality, my son's humble dream is to be admitted to any of the medical schools in USA that want him!
On the othe hand, it is really unfair when people like him cannot be trainned to be a physisian, but those with 3.0GPA AND 4xx MCAT are taking up the seats. Afterall, all patients would want more prepared and more capable physicians to treat them!
Seems unconfident. Just from a body language perspective, he's covering his mouth while talking the whole time.
I’m sure you would be shy too if you’re entire life achievements were broadcasted for thousands to see.
Trading options...put and call contracts. Readers may feel it's sort of like gambling.
I feel like watching these videos is going to make my application knock it out of the park. Who agrees?
He only had one LOR? That’s why he didn’t get in. He doesn’t meet the LOR requirements for most schools.
It might have been a letter packet. My school does this and basically all my letters are together under the name of my advisor. It looks like one letter but I have several letters in there.
I thought letter packets still only count as one letter? If that’s the case, he likely didn’t meet the minimum for a lot of schools. If I recall correctly, MSAR says a packet counts as one letter but it’s possible I’m thinking of the committee letter. I’ll check at some point
@@pieceofheart5618 Ah, you're probably right. My bad.
I hope that he doesnt have his hand in front of his face during his interviews.
He's holding his microphone.
I feel that this student is lacking a lot of confidence. He seems nervous and edgy all the time. I think he would benefit from learning to be prouder and more sure of himself. I know he is probably using a mic, but his mouth was covered the entire time. All the same, he seems to not want to speak up on behalf of himself and put himself forth as an able and confident person. I suspect that’s why he wasn’t successful. I hope he has since gotten an offer.
Kinda late to this video but looking at his personal statement, I can see why he may have not gotten into medical school. I feel his personal statement is good enough but not great. His stories were great in concept but his writing felt a bit inconsistent. I bet some admissions committees saw his grades, demographic information, etc. and expected him to have a more cohesive essay, considering he was applying to mostly top medical schools. I hope he got into medical school by now since he more than deserves to be there. I still don't get how people like him get rejected for not being perfect but others who are far from perfect join medical school and quit immediately.
in the grand scheme of things, he's actually an ordinary applicant.. his list of schools are looking for extraordinary activities. he's not working with any professors on research ideas he came up with, he hasn't gotten any awards, wrote books, etc. not saying he has to cure cancer, but there are thousands of asians who are just as qualified as he is, so it's harder to stand out. also, covering mouth was kinda awkward
Just a suggestion; stop using your hand to cover your mouth. That's seriously problematic body language.
he trade stocks of course he got rejected
He answered the “diversity question” by saying he’s good at math. He brought math into his activities. The host likes his approach but he didn’t get in to any medical schools. Begs the question...
Med schools don't like Math?
@@rutho.6282 Is math and identity? I actually did medical school admissions. He totally missed the question math is not identity. It’s a implicit identity question. The doctor is not a mathematician. And when you think about community you don’t necessarily think about math.
@@rutho.6282 I did admissions at the University of Washington and I also was a liaison to the AAMC. Maybe you’re not in the US and you have different standards there. Diversity may not be as important to you as you were in a more homogeneous country with class differences and maybe religious differences. I don’t know
@@Diego-xn1yr I was simply just curious because the host's reasoning conflicted with your statements. I'm based in the U.S., however, I'm an incoming pre-med freshman at a 4-year so I have no idea how this stuff works as all. Thanks for providing new insights; it's always welcome.
@@rutho.6282 I didn’t mean to be abrupt but i’m an actual admissions person and I am have them in death experience with a process and have actually put on a conference with the AAMC . I didn’t mean to be abrupt, but it’s uncommon For admissions officer to inquire about math in an interview. They have the metrics. They have your grades in MCAT score. Students in this brave New World need to be able to talk about identity and diversity in clear precise terms. The host is an MD and I’m sure that he would not be pleased if someone who was not an MD got involved in medicine beyond their training. However he thinks because he’s a MD he has a ability to speak on things he has not had any real training in. Having friends who are in admissions is not sufficient just as having friends who are doctors is not be sufficient for me to diagnose disease or treat an illness
Compassionate care (empathy) is part of someone's essence, it cannot be taught. A patient do not care about your GPA or MCAT when they're sick. Medical schools aren't seeking Einstein's with horrible bedside manners. This youngman looked good on paper. I believe it was the interview that got him waitlisted. If you're the medical professional interviewing, you can smell disingenuous a mile away.
He probably didn’t get accepted because he covered his mouth with his hand during the interview
He probably also just did that in case he didn’t want to show his whole face on camera for privacy reasons
@@fifi8314 I was thinking about that too, he seems to have great personality and expresses himself well. But covering the mouth part was perplexing me, if for privacy, why not wear a mask?
Still doesn’t explain why he only got 1 interview
Bro why cant this guy talk without covering his mouth it’s weird
nervous
I know exactly why this kid didn't get into med school. He's below the standard for asian male applicants and his school wasn't a top 10. He's wait-list fodder, no wonder so many med schools didn't take the opportunity to interview him. He needs to apply to D.O. programs or try the Carribbean!
Yeah but I heard carribean applicants have a hard time getting residency
Identify as Black. Acceptance guaranteed
lol
The unfortunate truth.
False look at African American acceptance data it’s way lower than Asians and white Americans
@@tyronehill3010 that is true because the average MCAT for african americans is 505 while it is around 515 for asians and whites. HIs point is that if a black person scored has a 519 mcat, he/she would be accepted to every single school. If anyone scores that high on the mcat, they should get into med school, black or white. The problem is the system is now discriminating against asians and whites to let in other minority groups with lower than average scores.
@@JoeG2324 you have to realize you are competing against you own race and other applicants at the school you are applying to. These high stats schools have few Africans applying so you can’t say they took my seat ( not that you said this but I’m just saying ) and let’s be honest his ECs were good but if I had 10 applicants on my table and I had to offer one of them my last acceptance I’m going with the person who had longer ECs with more hours . He didn’t say he was ses disadvantaged and that’s the indicators that separates African Americans looking at data most make incomes close to the poverty line. So comparing the two makes less sense we have a shortage of African American physicians. It’s harder for them to get research my university doesn’t have any opportunities at all. I just don’t understand comparing the two races should my acceptance be taken away from me because I don’t have research? Or my gpa isn’t higher like normal Asians. Also gotta look at the story behind it. My mom has cancer and I was homeless for months. 4.0 uptrend my junior year vs my 2.1 gpa freshman year . Not saying all blacks have the same story as mine but an African and Asian in American as a whole without using outliners have different experiences
The creepy bread totally yawn because cook scientifically stitch qua a obsequious limit. different, hanging trigonometry