Planet Arakis...ahh you're a fan of Herbert. Dune...the original one rocks! Next one...not so much...and so on. And wow...This reminds me of Terminal Services/Citrix. I'm currently doing Desktop Support for the third Citrix shop I've worked in...and am very comfortable troubleshooting and assisting others in. I've never used this before... and it makes me want to install it on some hardware. I wish I had a big old server to put it on :) And OK...I'm gonna take a shot at why...Security first. And maybe you've got someone that you want to give access to an App that's gonna be running on the server so you don't have to worry about local support. I'm looking forward to the next video to see if my guesses are correct Thanks DJ...great vid!
Thanks @Lee H. oh yes been a long time fan of the Dune series of books, I was an avid sci-fi fan, one of my childhood pals had a library in his basement of 1000's of sci fi books (his Dad owned a used book store) and they would let me borrow them to read (useful on those rainy days when I couldnt get out to play baseball) As for what's coming...will have to wait and see :)
Hi DJ Am loving your videos. Can you ever do something concerning NUC's and running Linux (best distros) on them. Would appreciate your experiences and learnings.
I use a NUC for any of the distro reviews I have placed on hardware. It was fussy at first because it was a Nuc 10 and the processor/network/wifi wasnt well supported but they work fine with a 5.4+ Linux kernel
Spice uses a model similar to that used by IBM's VM OS. Each User is in their own VM. I understand in production, clients should be limited to a screen keyboard mouse and network link. The home Lab may relax these requirements with certain virtualization systems. Proxmox runs on bare metal, esentailly headless Gnome Boxes and Virtmanager run under a desktop Linux. I have a former gaming system. it has many cores and plenty of memory. Its extra horsepower can be used by VMs under boxes or Virtmanager . I have older quad core desktops which I may cluster under Proxmox. Any desktop or laptop ban handle the KBD / display. side. Older systems may run out of video power to run Xwindows and applications. Stripped of their video workloads, they may run VMs nicely. Guest VMs can be smaller if the host does file serving for them. Host Os and VM images need to be on fast SSD ( Ideally NVME) disk, while bulk data can be on old HDDs. Again this mimics the old VM mainframe practice. This is for all training lab setup, I cannot afford a dedicated server. You gave me the missing pieces I needed to wring the most out of my aging desktop systems. God bless you.
Thanks Jeffrey, am not familar with IBMs VMs, it wasnt in vogue when i worked for them and at the time it was popular I was working for Burroughs. They had a very different approach on the B1000 series of machines, they essential created a machine without a Machine Language, I remember once being i a long discussion with an IBM customer who couldnt grasp the concept of virtualizing the hardware to become an ideal Fortran,COBOL, Algol, etc. machine. He kept asking me for the assembler manual...there wasnt such a thing. It would be easiler to explain now, just hand him JAVA hehe.
@@CyberGizmo The VM 370 series OS also handled IBM's internal network world-wide. The network was built, under the table because it was needed. It was bigger than the Internet for many years. Their batch system just could not handle the job. This was something new management found out every few years.
Some issues here, 1st you should be using the qemu agent to get full client support like folder sharing etc. 2nd why do you need qemu-kvm on the client? You just need virt viewer
Thank you for explanation on how SPICE works. I have been playing around with it and it has good and bad points. One thing I noticed with MS RDP is that often the audio gets way out of sync. You have to disconnect/reconnect to recover. It seems to be a very common problem. In your video you mentioned SPICE vs. SPICE with two or three monitors. From what I read that's for OS's like Windows that won't let you add another monitor live. With Linux you can (mostly) do it live with the Display 2 though 4 checkboxes. Funny thing for me is that not all Linux distros are allowing me to do that. Even if I set SPICE to two or more monitors. But ubuntu with UnIty, Zorin Core both work and I can add more screens but not ubuntu MATE or Debian Spiral. I agree the video streaming option is a must! I would be nice if SPICE also had multiuser support. With proxmox maybe using containers woud help lower the resource load of having to have a VM per user. But for my home lab it's way better than noVNC.
Thanks DJ. This is something that Windows Server does well with RDP, which I am very familiar with having used it daily at work for over 10 years. I would consider implementing something like this at home for the family, but with a LInux Server. The benefits of centralising management of user machines (as a virtualised desktop viewed through a "thin-client" type setup), with centralised data storage (and therefore backups). It appears as though Spices doesn't support multiple concurrent users (multisession) each with their own individual virtualised environment connected to the same VM on the server. Was this supposed to be the "ticketing" function you mentioned briefly in the video? I'd love to hear your thoughts on how this compares to the Linux Terminal Server Project?
Spice only supports one user per VM the ticketing is a way to block the 2nd user until the first user is finished. Ill keep looking into this more and see if there is a way to do it. Will take a look at the Linux Terminal Server Project too (I knew there was an open source one out there but forgot its name), Thanks @sleepyeyevince for the reminder.
@@CyberGizmo As I recall the Linux Terminal Server Project was focused on disk-less clients . The Remmina desktop client allows on client to access multiple VMs. I wish there was more in on the xserver-xspice project which seems to us the Spice protocol to remote desktops like X2go or VNC. There are tips to install it, but little help using it. A KVM solution like VirtManager or Gnome Boxes is well supported. I
A solution might be to use templates and clones. To mitigate the increased storage requirements of creating a "full clone" for each family member, you might (after a backup of your VM, just in case) convert your VM to a template, then create as many "linked clones" as you need from that template. I hope this helps.
Thanks for video. But I have one question: how are competing connections implemented in spice? Can I connect from multiple clients to the same VM at the same time?
I'm still new to this, so I probably missed something in the linked docs, but how would I connect to a running Spice session from my client (Linux) machine, without logging in to PM first?
So take this with a grain of salt, I have not tested this, I just use the PM call, but there are two packages I see which might work...spice-html5 and spice-client-gtk there may be others the html5 will open the session in your browser, and the spice client will run from desktop, also virt-viewer can be called directly from the command line. There are some other ways to do it from the website: www.spice-space.org/index.html
hey folks any ideas on how to get this working with wayland? the compositor requires 3d acceleration hence no spice would work. also a bummer is that h264 decoding only works with passthrough a gpu with the chipset
Its a custom build based on a Intel core-i7 6700 at 3.4 Ghz, Asus Prime B360M-A, 32 GB of Memory, 512 GB Samsung 960 nvme SSD and SATA drives one Samsung 860 SSD i think its 1 TB and 2 Hitachi 6 TB spinning rust drives. Basically a piece of junk I put together from spare parts I had
@@CyberGizmo I have an old Mac Pro the one Xeon dual processors, it's heavy as all fuck, and a peace of junk. I was looking into using it, your thoughts?
@@tgrucker I have one of those boat anchors too, I used to run VMWare on it long ago, now its sitting under the desk powered off, but hey if it works try it.
Thanks for great video, I follow your step setup Spice on Proxmox, using Windows 10 to remote to Fedora32, vm got 2 Core, 8GB RAM, but vm always reach to 100% when I just browse or watch TH-cam. Do you know what I am missing?
I have been using it for years to setup various work VMs, especially if I work for different clients I would set up VM for each of them and work from there. Host was Ubuntu 20.04. Smooth video, sound, easy USB pass through, very small difference between working on VM and host. But good things do not last, Red Hat decided to ditch SPICE from RHEL. I started setting Alma Linux 9.0 top be my new virtualization host, only to find out that SPICE is no longer supported. Such a shame.
I ran a demo of Sybase APT (Client front end) on a Sun workstation in London, drawing the software via NFS from San Francisco, accessing a Database server also in SF. All done in 1996. Location independence and server centralisation has been around for a lot longer. Its only the jargon that's changed to make it seem new.
I tried this on Proxmox 6.2, but had no luck to get audio working. I've tried all 3 virtual audio device alternatives (ich9-intel-hda, intel-hda, AC97) without success. Does anyone has suggestion?
2 years later and no one can create build an spice client for an Chromebook. Is it so hard to create this apps for an Chromebook? Because it's also running on Linux.
I've been using SPICE for a while. It's definitely faster than VNC. My browser doesn't like the mime-type, as I only get a file named 'download', which I have to load manually with 'remote-viewer download'. About spice-enhancements video-streaming, I leave it off, because it adds both lag and artifacts. I guess you could benefit from filtered, as it should auto-select if streaming should be done. I haven't tried it much though.
Thanks Markus good to know, I know its faster than the noVNC option but haven't tried VNC I tend not to use that much anymore, kind old tech these days. And thanks for the tip of the video streaming will play around with the filter some.
I did some testing today and also noticed the lag so I turned off the video-streaming enhancement and it went away, thanks for the tip, it made a significant difference in the performance (see next video)
Been looking at Promox for awhile but havent jumped in yet. Was nice my youtube feed pushed this video to watch from your channel and has me pretty excited to try it. Love all your videos! Thank you!
this is was a great video and answered some very basic questions of mine that I could not find elsewhere. Thank you so much!
The Spice must flow.
Great channel. Love your format. Keep it up!
thumbs up for the dune reference.
Thanks eskoOne and heck ya!
Very nice video, TNX.
Very useful and well done
Is this only for GUI environments? I guess its pointless for just obtaining a shell on a LXC
I have read about SPICE from the Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization documentation. It was later became oVirt.
Planet Arakis...ahh you're a fan of Herbert. Dune...the original one rocks! Next one...not so much...and so on. And wow...This reminds me of Terminal Services/Citrix. I'm currently doing Desktop Support for the third Citrix shop I've worked in...and am very comfortable troubleshooting and assisting others in.
I've never used this before... and it makes me want to install it on some hardware. I wish I had a big old server to put it on :)
And OK...I'm gonna take a shot at why...Security first. And maybe you've got someone that you want to give access to an App that's gonna be running on the server so you don't have to worry about local support. I'm looking forward to the next video to see if my guesses are correct
Thanks DJ...great vid!
Thanks @Lee H. oh yes been a long time fan of the Dune series of books, I was an avid sci-fi fan, one of my childhood pals had a library in his basement of 1000's of sci fi books (his Dad owned a used book store) and they would let me borrow them to read (useful on those rainy days when I couldnt get out to play baseball) As for what's coming...will have to wait and see :)
Narts, was looking forward to virtualization with the Spice Melange
Also glad he didn't finish with the what I really really want at one point in the video...
LOL opps guess I'll need to fold space again
Hi DJ
Am loving your videos. Can you ever do something concerning NUC's and running Linux (best distros) on them.
Would appreciate your experiences and learnings.
I use a NUC for any of the distro reviews I have placed on hardware. It was fussy at first because it was a Nuc 10 and the processor/network/wifi wasnt well supported but they work fine with a 5.4+ Linux kernel
Spice uses a model similar to that used by IBM's VM OS. Each User is in their own VM. I understand in production, clients should be limited to a screen keyboard mouse and network link. The home Lab may relax these requirements with certain virtualization systems. Proxmox runs on bare metal, esentailly headless Gnome Boxes and Virtmanager run under a desktop Linux. I have a former gaming system. it has many cores and plenty of memory. Its extra horsepower can be used by VMs under boxes or Virtmanager . I have older quad core desktops which I may cluster under Proxmox. Any desktop or laptop ban handle the KBD / display. side. Older systems may run out of video power to run Xwindows and applications. Stripped of their video workloads, they may run VMs nicely. Guest VMs can be smaller if the host does file serving for them. Host Os and VM images need to be on fast SSD ( Ideally NVME) disk, while bulk data can be on old HDDs. Again this mimics the old VM mainframe practice. This is for all training lab setup, I cannot afford a dedicated server. You gave me the missing pieces I needed to wring the most out of my aging desktop systems. God bless you.
Thanks Jeffrey, am not familar with IBMs VMs, it wasnt in vogue when i worked for them and at the time it was popular I was working for Burroughs. They had a very different approach on the B1000 series of machines, they essential created a machine without a Machine Language, I remember once being i a long discussion with an IBM customer who couldnt grasp the concept of virtualizing the hardware to become an ideal Fortran,COBOL, Algol, etc. machine. He kept asking me for the assembler manual...there wasnt such a thing. It would be easiler to explain now, just hand him JAVA hehe.
@@CyberGizmo The VM 370 series OS also handled IBM's internal network world-wide. The network was built, under the table because it was needed. It was bigger than the Internet for many years. Their batch system just could not handle the job. This was something new management found out every few years.
Some issues here, 1st you should be using the qemu agent to get full client support like folder sharing etc. 2nd why do you need qemu-kvm on the client? You just need virt viewer
Thank you for explanation on how SPICE works. I have been playing around with it and it has good and bad points. One thing I noticed with MS RDP is that often the audio gets way out of sync. You have to disconnect/reconnect to recover. It seems to be a very common problem. In your video you mentioned SPICE vs. SPICE with two or three monitors. From what I read that's for OS's like Windows that won't let you add another monitor live. With Linux you can (mostly) do it live with the Display 2 though 4 checkboxes. Funny thing for me is that not all Linux distros are allowing me to do that. Even if I set SPICE to two or more monitors. But ubuntu with UnIty, Zorin Core both work and I can add more screens but not ubuntu MATE or Debian Spiral. I agree the video streaming option is a must! I would be nice if SPICE also had multiuser support. With proxmox maybe using containers woud help lower the resource load of having to have a VM per user. But for my home lab it's way better than noVNC.
Thanks DJ. This is something that Windows Server does well with RDP, which I am very familiar with having used it daily at work for over 10 years. I would consider implementing something like this at home for the family, but with a LInux Server. The benefits of centralising management of user machines (as a virtualised desktop viewed through a "thin-client" type setup), with centralised data storage (and therefore backups). It appears as though Spices doesn't support multiple concurrent users (multisession) each with their own individual virtualised environment connected to the same VM on the server. Was this supposed to be the "ticketing" function you mentioned briefly in the video? I'd love to hear your thoughts on how this compares to the Linux Terminal Server Project?
Spice only supports one user per VM the ticketing is a way to block the 2nd user until the first user is finished. Ill keep looking into this more and see if there is a way to do it. Will take a look at the Linux Terminal Server Project too (I knew there was an open source one out there but forgot its name), Thanks @sleepyeyevince for the reminder.
@@CyberGizmo As I recall the Linux Terminal Server Project was focused on disk-less clients . The Remmina desktop client allows on client to access multiple VMs. I wish there was more in on the xserver-xspice project which seems to us the Spice protocol to remote desktops like X2go or VNC. There are tips to install it, but little help using it. A KVM solution like VirtManager or Gnome Boxes is well supported. I
A solution might be to use templates and clones. To mitigate the increased storage requirements of creating a "full clone" for each family member, you might (after a backup of your VM, just in case) convert your VM to a template, then create as many "linked clones" as you need from that template. I hope this helps.
Thanks for video. But I have one question: how are competing connections implemented in spice? Can I connect from multiple clients to the same VM at the same time?
Yes you can connect multiple clients at the same time with SPICE
The noise in your room (AC?) sounds exactly like the background noise loop in a certain Quake 1 level..., "Ziggurat Vertigo" maybe?
I'm still new to this, so I probably missed something in the linked docs, but how would I connect to a running Spice session from my client (Linux) machine, without logging in to PM first?
So take this with a grain of salt, I have not tested this, I just use the PM call, but there are two packages I see which might work...spice-html5 and spice-client-gtk there may be others the html5 will open the session in your browser, and the spice client will run from desktop, also virt-viewer can be called directly from the command line. There are some other ways to do it from the website: www.spice-space.org/index.html
@@CyberGizmo Wow, that was quick. Thanks for the info!
hey folks any ideas on how to get this working with wayland? the compositor requires 3d acceleration hence no spice would work. also a bummer is that h264 decoding only works with passthrough a gpu with the chipset
What are you using for a server, disk size, memory, hardware?
Its a custom build based on a Intel core-i7 6700 at 3.4 Ghz, Asus Prime B360M-A, 32 GB of Memory, 512 GB Samsung 960 nvme SSD and SATA drives one Samsung 860 SSD i think its 1 TB and 2 Hitachi 6 TB spinning rust drives. Basically a piece of junk I put together from spare parts I had
@@CyberGizmo I have an old Mac Pro the one Xeon dual processors, it's heavy as all fuck, and a peace of junk. I was looking into using it, your thoughts?
@@tgrucker I have one of those boat anchors too, I used to run VMWare on it long ago, now its sitting under the desk powered off, but hey if it works try it.
Thanks for great video, I follow your step setup Spice on Proxmox, using Windows 10 to remote to Fedora32, vm got 2 Core, 8GB RAM, but vm always reach to 100% when I just browse or watch TH-cam. Do you know what I am missing?
That could be the codec trying to run without the benefit of a GPU, you might try 4 cores and see if that helps any.
I have been using it for years to setup various work VMs, especially if I work for different clients I would set up VM for each of them and work from there. Host was Ubuntu 20.04. Smooth video, sound, easy USB pass through, very small difference between working on VM and host.
But good things do not last, Red Hat decided to ditch SPICE from RHEL. I started setting Alma Linux 9.0 top be my new virtualization host, only to find out that SPICE is no longer supported. Such a shame.
I ran a demo of Sybase APT (Client front end) on a Sun workstation in London, drawing the software via NFS from San Francisco, accessing a Database server also in SF. All done in 1996. Location independence and server centralisation has been around for a lot longer. Its only the jargon that's changed to make it seem new.
I tried this on Proxmox 6.2, but had no luck to get audio working. I've tried all 3 virtual audio device alternatives (ich9-intel-hda, intel-hda, AC97) without success. Does anyone has suggestion?
Great Stuff!
Thank you Armynyus
2 years later and no one can create build an spice client for an Chromebook. Is it so hard to create this apps for an Chromebook? Because it's also running on Linux.
I've been using SPICE for a while. It's definitely faster than VNC. My browser doesn't like the mime-type, as I only get a file named 'download', which I have to load manually with 'remote-viewer download'.
About spice-enhancements video-streaming, I leave it off, because it adds both lag and artifacts. I guess you could benefit from filtered, as it should auto-select if streaming should be done. I haven't tried it much though.
Thanks Markus good to know, I know its faster than the noVNC option but haven't tried VNC I tend not to use that much anymore, kind old tech these days. And thanks for the tip of the video streaming will play around with the filter some.
I did some testing today and also noticed the lag so I turned off the video-streaming enhancement and it went away, thanks for the tip, it made a significant difference in the performance (see next video)
@@CyberGizmo It probably varies from case to case too. Hardware, GPU-encoding, bandwidth, graphics content and so on.
I am experience some latency. also, there is a mouse under my mouse
The spice must be fluid.
LOL yes
Lmao!
That is what we do
Dune reference gets a like.
Thanks for this video, I couldn't figure out why this wasn't working for me.. turns out I needed virt-viewer **facepalm**
We are not interested in cloud crap.
Interesting that your intro uses "Lorem ipsum...."
Been looking at Promox for awhile but havent jumped in yet. Was nice my youtube feed pushed this video to watch from your channel and has me pretty excited to try it. Love all your videos! Thank you!