🤘🏼 *I've rëad their autobiographies. Paul & Gene had all the initial ideas. Ace wanted the R'n'R lifestyle & even told them he wouldn't carry gear. If that's what he wanted, I respect that. But, Paul & Gene had a vision of 4 equal parts, & it wasn't going to work with 2 guys who wanted to party rather than deal with business. Gene recently said that they couldn't have done it without Ace & Peter at the beginning; and they couldn't have done the last 20 years WITH Ace & Peter. Completely fair.* 🤘🏼
I loved Kiss when I was growing up, but never cared for anything they did post '79. They've only ever been nostalgia to me in my adult life, and Ace and Peter are an inseparable part of that.
Hey, admit it. KISS is much more than nostalgia! KISS 1973-1979 is simply one of the greatest ROCK bands of all time! Along with Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, David Bowie, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, Queen, Rush, Zappa, Cheap Trick, ZZ Top, T Rex, Pink Floyd, etc., they painted the mural of Rock n Roll in the 1970s. This question is stupid, really. Ace and Peter were great, and like so many rock stars of the era, they fell into some booze and/or drugs. They were both young (esp ACE) at the beginning, and it just sort of happens with some people. Paul and Gene were atypical (like Ted Nugent and Angus Young) in that they didn't like alcohol or drugs. It's all fine and it's just how it was. The 1970s was the greatest decade for ROCK, and we all know that drugs were a part of everything then (music, movies, comedy, etc., etc.) And whether that's a good thing or not, we all know how much better Alice Cooper and Aerosmith were with the two. It's sad to say, but I can't stand either of them (their music) straight.
Barefoot- KISS had some great stuff post 1979. Better than Dynasty for sure, 1979. No not as many good albums in a row but there are definitely good albums. Paul.and Gene wrote most everything in the 70's so the 80's and beyond aren't really that different. Ace's solos didn't make their songs better than Vinnie's or Bruce's or Tommy's solos. You just need to move on from Ace and Peter being the golden children and accept reality
@@brianstrutter1501 Hey, 80s boy, you do not get it! Ace Frehley made KISS! His solos were absolutely brilliant (songs within themselves) and Kiss was a killer band in the 70s! Great songs, awesome solos and a show that would melt your face off! All that 80s pap is for mall chicks and morons. And those other guitarists are all "just guys" playing bullshit, non-memorable solos. Ace Frehley's solos are ICONIC. ⚡ 🦇 🌟 🐆
I agree that the stuff past Dynasty wasn’t even close to their music of the 70’s. Their debut album has most of the best songs they ever did, but you have to listen to them on Alive to fully appreciate them. Same with all the tunes from their first 3 albums that appear on Alive. Get Alive and Alive II plus Double Platinum and you own the best Kiss had to offer. But the mystery is why didn’t they continue into the 80’s? The answer is easy. Ace Frehley. Ace didn’t write all the songs but his playing is all over those 70’s Kiss songs. He helped make Gene and Paul’s songs better. Once Ace was gone, so was any assistance he provided to their songs. Ace was the secret weapon. And that’s why Ace’s solo record was the best. I still listen to KISS Alive. Deuce, Parasite, Rock Bottom, Cold Gin, Rockin Roll all nite, and a song Ace kills on, Let Me Go Rock n Roll. Pick up KISS Alive if you haven’t got it yet. It’s a fantastic rock record.
No Gene and Paul No Kiss. No Ace and Pete No Kiss. No Bill Acoin no Sean Delaney No Kiss!! The initial inspiration was Gene and Paul tho. And they got a lot help by there friends.
KISS was a show band. Their music served the act. It doesn’t stand on its own very well. It’s not bad rock pop, but it’s not interesting much less deep. It’s fine. There’s a place for that, and their shows were amazing to see. Rush is a whole other dimension. The driving forces and personalities of the two bands were very different and their internal relationships were as well. KISS had a product to sell and no one did it better. Rush created their art their way despite the early obstacles they faced in the music business. They persevered down their own path and found a way through that no one else (but their fans) saw.
I know a guy who managed a couple of Rock groups in the 80s and he told me the temptations to the group members were tremendous. The access to drugs and women were easy. I can see how one might would get affected to all that. The music business could play part in it is very possible, but I believe they just couldn't handle their issues. Peter and Ace. Either way, they made their mark.
All corporate is corrupt. Films suck, food is toxic, agriculture is destructive, banking is rapacious, war is a racket. Education, automobiles, housing, etc. Everything is fkd.
BS. No tougher that most businesses. Criss and Frehley were uneducated HS dropouts who couldn’t handle responsibility or be professional. They would have been fired long before they were in any other business.
I think If Ace and Peter were carpenters they he would have been alcoholics, had Gene and Paul been Real Estate developers they would have been just as successful.
As a musician for most of my life I will say that Peter was the most talented member when it came to playing his instrument. Peter could have easily played with a number of other rock bands and done well with them while the other 3 well, not so much. The music Kiss did was okay, but their best ones were the ones with the string sections and other instrumentation added in. The ones with just the 4 of them playing sounded like self-taught 15-year-olds in a garage, but that is just my personal opinion. What made them so big had a lot more to do with the costumes, makeup, and stage show than the music itself.
my first concert in the mid 1970s was kiss at the san antonio college coliseum (SACC) with this (then unknown to me) little 3 peice band (rush) opening. I was a typical texas teenage dirtbag who idolized kiss, and arrived for the "show". once rush took the stage and kicked it into "high" gear, I can honestly say that I was mesmerized. I've remained a life long fan of both although my musical taste has been overwhelmingly in favor of that little ole band from canada.....
Everything Kiss had really ended with the departure of A & P. It’s basically the same 15 songs over and over. You could see that with their live shows. They still lived off those first 4 albums 40 years later. It was also the end for Ace and Pete. Neither did Jack after 79. Ace had a few vanilla albums, living off name only, and playing clubs. Few worked harder from 73 to 79. Rush and Kiss. Imagine 2 albums per year. That’s crazy pace- ESPECIALLY for Rush, which had complex music and substance.
KISS absolutely were corporate, they sold everything from cars to coffins to their fans. I would absolutely agree that Ace was integral to the early sound and Peter wrote Beth which was their biggest hit at the time. Ace's solo record was the one that sold the most too. Saying they were integral is just stating the obvious. Cynicism or lack thereof? I don't know.
There's another way to put it. Even Ace Frehley referred to Gene and Paul as workaholics and that he and Peter just couldn't keep up with that sort of lifestyle. Ace and Peter were essential to the sound and style of the band. It's hard to keep a band together for a long haul. Given the distinct personality differences it was inevitable that the band split and it's amazing that we got the years we did out of that original line-up.
Many many musicians are not business-minded, and so the realities of the music business really do not gel well with their sensibilities. However, very few musicians get the opportunities that is freely and Peter Criss got from being in cash so I think there is a lesson here, but at the same time I don't feel too sorry for either of those guys. There are plenty of musicians you've been treated just as poorly who also did not have millions of dollars in their bank account at one time
The entertainment industry has nothing in common with having a normal job or career. The uncertainty and rootlessness is more akin to travelling with a circus.
Every young band with dreams of the big time would benefit from knowing all this going into the music industry. Many many musicians would sell their souls to be in that small club and that's all I'll say about that. I was a drummer in a band with a guitarist and we went through numerous singers and bass players. Had we hooked up with a charismatic singer and become well known for our 15 minutes of fame we'd have sat on the sidelines and let that singer become the face and voice of our little band. Even though a junior partner in the firm he/she would've also become the decision maker whether or not the guitar player and I liked it. Knowing that the singer was our meal ticket that allowed us to play bigger venues and make more money than we could have otherwise made we'd have had to play that game. Like Glen Campbell sang "there's been a load of compromisin' on the road to my horizon" is a reality every musician must be prepared to face. He or she who can adapt and play their role gets wealthier, their pictures in magazines and other perks instead of working a 9 to 5 grind. In short, for everything you get you have to also give something else up. That usually is a spouse you'd've been a lot happier with all your life.
Appreciate these insider-insights. Music is a hobby for me, and I've never considered being a working musician. I have mad respect for anyone who does it at any level. 👍
Being born in 1973, I never heard of Kiss until 1987 when they were doing their glam thing (which I loved.). I even knew Frehley’s Comet before I discovered 70’s Kiss.
I would like to share a little trivia in regards to Rush's connection with KISS, but mostly Gene and Paul. Before KISS, Gene and Paul had a band called Wicked Lester, which recorded an album for Epic Records, but was rejected by Epic. At the same time, Rush was turned down by Epic Records as well. Later on, when Gene and Paul founded KISS, they were hitting New York City clubs and were signed later on to Casablanca Records, who were the label's very first big signing after one off record releases by various artists who weren't taking off. Around the same time that KISS were headling their own tours, Casablanca also turned Rush down. Neil Bogart's cousin Larry Harris was the label's vice president and he was the one who turned down Rush, who were later picked up by Mercury Records, which KISS would be become signed to after PolyGram closed off Casablanca, even though they had a hit album with the "Flashdance" soundtrack and their last album release was Animotion's Strange Behavior. I just wanted to share. Thanks for uploading. I also subscribed and signed up for notifications. Keep them coming.
Despite all the flash and glam Kiss' songs were heavy but not metal, and catchy but not pop. That is why they were successful they had good songs. Always loved their sound. A band like Talking Heads holds nothing for me ...yawn.
its the opposite for me, Kiss and that style of rock is a big yawn to me. In fact hard rock in general has become a big yawn to me. When I wwas younger I loved hard rock. For example, now I cant imagine anything more boring than listening to something like Smoke on the water or something by black sabbath..... ac/dc goes without saying..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Now, a band like Talking Heads appeals to me way more.
Go watch the Tom Snyder KISS interview from 1979, look at Gene's expression as Ace and Peter basically take over the interview, Ace was most likely coked and alcoholed up and was enjoying himself, while Peter was his wing man. Gene looked on incredulously and was trying to be serious and Paul just went along with Gene.
None of you have played Kiss as a band .If you had you would know how much stops and starts there are and Peter was very underrated. Try playing it in a band,prove me wrong .
Not a KISS fan. But it seems to me that it was Simmons and Stanley who had the total vision of KISS. Ace and Criss did not share the same vision, or at least on the same level. This appears to have been by design on Simmons’ and Stanley’s part. They started the band. Ace and Criss came in by way of audition.
That's definitely the version Gene and Paul would like people to believe. The concept and sound for Kiss really developed from all 4 original members. If you listen to Wicked Lester, it will give you a good idea of what Ace and Peter contributed to the band.
@@ghostlightdc No question about Ace and Criss’ contributions. It appears that they were fully tapped into the style of the music and their stage characters. But it was Simmons and Stanley who formed a partnership to invent the band, the image, the brand, and the marketing in the first place. It was not a situation where four players got together and the image developed out of their collaboration together. Simmons and Stanley had formed nearly the entire vision of the band before auditioning for the other players to fulfill it. They auditioned many, and chose Ace and Criss as the best ones with which to do so.
@@scottstedeford7575 I think that's partly true. The whole idea of the make up however was an evolution that happened only after Ace and Peter joined. Even Gene and Paul have always said that they "all" created the idea of wearing makeup. It evolved out of them experimenting with an androgynous look like the Dolls. ACE created the logo too. Gene and Paul definitely were the ones with the drive, but they neglect how much of an influence the others were on inventing what became Kiss.
@@ghostlightdc The part of the KISS story I get a kick out most is that it was Ace who landed the best selling solo record and Criss who wrote the band’s far and away biggest hit. Rich irony.
Of course, Kiss was always a business. Rock and roll clowns, but not in a bad way. You want serious then get into prog bands like Yes, Rush, or Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Perhaps Ace and Peter avoided the things that could destroy their souls like greed and avarice while Gene and Paul wouldn't allow a lifestyle of their artistry to destroy their bodies.
Seen them in concert. And can tell you first hand that Paul Stanley in the middle of the show said in a whinny and totally Condescending way said… Ace wants to play a song. Which confirmed to me that he and Gene ran the show with an iron fist. Exactly like Metallica with James and Lars. But the way Paul Stanley said it, I just lost all respect for him. And felt bad for Ace and Peter.
I'm a fan of the original lineup and the 80's lineup with Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick. I became aware of Kiss in the summer of '89 and had their self-titled 8-track tape. I had the 8-track tape with Kissin Time, so it was the common one to find. The most rare is their self-titled album without Kissin Time. I absolutely loved their makeup. It was both beautiful and shocking to me as a preteen. I also enjoyed some of their 80's stuff equally. For me, I read extensively about Kiss back in the day pre-internet since that's all there was. I hadn't known a great deal about Peter and Ace's departure back then as a preteen since not a lot of their past substance abuse surfaced in magazines. I always heard they were fired/ to they left the band by 79' for Peter. Ace left in 1982, I believe. I did talk a lot with the older Kiss fans back then the time and they graciously told me everything about them. I had jotted down a lot of information on index cards that I'd carry on my person along with a pencil in my hip pack. I was serious about skateboarding at the time. It was my transportation and recreation, something that for me, went perfectly together with rock music. I was a preteen back in the late 80's and I never forgot that raw energy I detected from those old analog Kiss 8-track tapes. I enjoyed the Dynasty album even though it's rock disco and at this time I was veering into classic and hard rock. I was previously a metal head. I have both the Dynasty 8-track tape and LP still. All of my original Kiss collection was hand-me-down, used stuff that still holds a lot of sentimental attachment for me. I still listen to the same formats to this very day. It still sounds as good now as it did to me back then, albeit very primitive by today's standards. As for Peter and Ace's drug/ alcoholism I see this occur time and again in other musicians, and not just aimed strictly to rock bands/hard rock, heavy metal (I put in heavy metal as some of my heavy metal favorites like Judas Priest and WASP, for example also fell into debauchery and the common music industry trappings), etc. As I got older, I read and bought more books about Kiss and various other bands that I love. I'm more of an old fashioned bookworm and less about wading through pages of internet information and trying to sort out misinformation in some cases. Unfortunately, I never kept my original stack of index cards and I wish I had kept them so I could show my nieces and nephews who are now of the age where they appreciate all kinds of music and were intrigued with my re-telling "Back in my day, if it was too loud, then you're too old..." 😊😂 My nephews wanted to see and hear an 8-track tape so I promised them the next time they stop in I'll have everything set up, cued up, and ready to rock n' roll. Same goes for the cassette tapes too. Their formats are digital and stored online. Mine are physical, nowadays the 8-track tapes are pushing almost 50 some years, but play as to be expected. In all, yes, I agree with what Neil Pert said. However, I think that when younger and have temptations all around us, it's common for some to get carried away by the fame, excesses, etc. Ace and Peter may not have been perfect angels, and I wouldn't expect them to be yet they remain my favorites because they overcame their addictions. They also contributed a lot to Kiss in the early years. Some of their best albums were their self-titled album on through Alive II and Love Gun. I realize that Dynasty was rock disco, but I liked it. I realized early on being a new fan that Kiss were going to try different musical approaches and it wasn't going to stay classic hard rock. I always thought their Unmasked album was pop rock, but still had some catchy songs. And equally so of their various 80's lineups. They had a few good albums from Creatures of the Night to Lick It Up, etc. 😊
KISS Meets The Phantom is what broke up the band. Thats when Ace and Peter had enough of the corporate bullshit and knew it was a joke to begin with. They became very jaded and were done with it.
KISS (1973-1979) is simply one of the greatest ROCK bands of all time! Along with Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, David Bowie, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, Queen, Rush, Zappa, Cheap Trick, ZZ Top, T Rex, Pink Floyd, etc., they painted the mural of Rock 'n Roll in the 1970s. This question is stupid, really. Ace and Peter were great, and like so many rock stars of the era, they fell into some booze and/or drugs. They were both young (esp ACE) at the beginning, and it just sort of happens with some people. Paul and Gene were atypical (like Ted Nugent and Angus Young) in that they didn't like alcohol or drugs. It's all fine and it's just how it was. The 1970s was the greatest decade for ROCK, and we all know that drugs were a part of everything then (music, movies, comedy, etc., etc.) And whether that's a good thing or not, we also know how much better Alice Cooper and Aerosmith were with the two. It's sad to say, but I can't stand either of them (their music) straight.
@@thetroublewiththat You're right. He was 27. Still, that's not so old. Ace was 22. No matter, all this talk about drugs and alcohol. Gimme a break. The 70s was loaded with both, and the best rock n roll of all time came from within that awesome era. To me, it was about "using it the right way." Just enough to spark your mind and creativity, and never too much, so that you're strung out & overloaded. But as we all know (or should know), it was a time of invention and wild, chance taking effort. And many great rock stars had an issue with drugs, because ROCK was IT. Truly...IT! And there was a lot of pressure to make, and keep making great music. Plus, there was that sense of unadulterated freedom that drove the artist. Either way, whether they did it or not, they really shouldn't be judged on that, because the era was all consumed with music, films, drugs, booze, creative inspiration and at times, God-like results. ✨
@@CathyLahn 27 is quite old to be still trying to get a foothold at success in music. Even Peter was concerned about his age, really hoping Kiss was his ticket. He knew he was running out of chances, according to ex wife Lydia.
@@thetroublewiththat Yeah, fine. So what. Some performers don't start till later, or maybe they don't get their break right away. Many good musicians don't break through at all. So Peter was the old man of the group at 27. Kinda like Bon Scott with AC/DC. No big deal.
It’s a culmination of many things that caused the internal strife and eventual breakup of the original/classic lineup. Peter and Ace had self-control issues when it came to drugs and alcohol. Gene and Paul steered the band in a direction away from the raw energy band they were at the beginning, while marketing the band to exhaustion. It’s easy to blame it all on Ace and Peter and their drug use, and they do deserve a lot of the blame, but all 4 contributed to their downfall.
Peter and Ace are/were losers. They had the keys to the kingdom and they threw it away. Eddie Kramers opinion means about as much to me as Paul and genes.
my 3rd band was called the Pangs but we were without a drummer. the first guy we auditioned was a guy named Jay Brandt here in San Diego....this was 1985...he was young clean collegiate upbeat and organized. as he was setting up i asked him "so who's your favorite drummer?" he said Neil Pert....i said "good just don't drum like and well be okay". he looked at me without saying a word and smiled. he was the best damned drummer and he never tried to be Neil Pert while drumming for the Pangs. this other cartoon band i have no comment on but i did quite like Beth.
Does anyone who grew up in the 70s actually know anyone who listened to kiss after the age of 10 or 12 at the most? I mean' I wasnt even ten when I already grew out of them. Cartoon rock from day one. But having a target audience at that tender age worked for them and they made a career out it. Such is the world of entertainment. Theres something for everyone at all ages.
The first three or four years kiss fan base audience or in their twenties it was the middle to late seventies to when they became a worldwide phenomenon younger kids started liking them. In a similar way years before the same thing happened to The Beatles.
Green Day apparently was accidentally a kids band. Anecdotal, but I have heard tales of dismay from the band about tons of kids showing up at least in their earlier shows.
Ya, Neil may have been a bit off on some details, but I'm pretty sure Gene and Paul did know each other in High School. I just don't think they had sketches of Kiss stuff that early.
I always thought they were high school stuff & a joke. The dumb painted faces and all the production. Never cared much for Gene Simmons personally. Seems like they put out what they thought people would lap up so they could get rich. They just never seemed really serious about the music.
Kiss is a carnival show. Ever see their movie where they secretly inhabit an amusement park? It’s a hoot. Shows they understood the assignment and their position in the music universe. Anyway, if you like KISS for their music, you’ve probably licked more than a few windows. Have a good day.
I was a huge KISS fan but left once the disco song came out. From there I knew some of their music but never bought anymore. Now, I’m sorry I didn’t know more about them before throwing that money away.
Without Gene's vision (and personal money) KISS would've never become huge. Ace and Peter brought a LOT, but they didn't take things as seriously as they should've. And, yes, they had issues BEFORE the band. I've read their bios.
Peter and Ace were Kiss. Gene is a asshole that put too much into the business end and not enough into the music. Everything they made after Creatures sucked. In their book they said they would give Ace drinks because he played better. It also said Peter had a very big ego. Watch the Tom Snyder interview and you'll see the asshole Gene really is. Peter, Ace and Tom having a good time and it seemed Paul wanted in on it too. As far as musicians go. Gene is the weak link in that category. Peter is a great drummer and Ace is a awesome guitarist. Love for Paul too but Gene sucks . After Eric Carr there is no Kiss
@@TalkLinkMusic-gd7fz I mean that's the way I see it. I was ten in 77. And I wanted to be Peter Criss. I've heard multiple musicians say all they wanted to be Gene when they were growing up but I March to the beat of my own drummer. I'm never surprised by my separation from the majority. I always like the thing most despise. I was a little harsh in the post but I don't sugarcoat things. And having those other guys wear Ace and Peter's altee ego was a slap in the face to everyone including the involved and fans. Big F you to everyone from the Self proclaimed demon. I wonder if they just ran out of ideas
Funny thing is I never learned the drums. I sing and play a little guitar. My mother forbid my loving Kiss. Needless to say it was ignored. She was a holy roller. I was ten. And a rebel from day one. Black Diamond is my favorite song. Alive 1&2 are my favorite albums. And Neil was probably right. But rock n roll isn't supposed to be like Gene made the band. Have a good one
Kiss was nothing but a stage show whereas Rush were and regarded as one of the best talented musicians and band ever. It must be noted that Kiss were booed off stage with the "we want Rush chants" from the audience cause they wanted to here music not theatrics.so Kiss said you cant tour with us anymore.
I’ve listened and read a lot of what the members are Rush had said, and they only had high regards for the members of Kiss and the way theytreated by them
Nah, Ace and Peter were just f-ups who wanted to party and exploit the fame for fun. Ace provided a certain musical quality to the band but Peter was there just because he was there and Paul and Gene were glad to replace him as soon as possible.
Kiss sucks without Peter and Ace. So much so that they had scabs stand in for them and it was awful. Sorry. Tommy and Eric are not the real Kiss. Period.
I think, both Erics worked well at their time with the Songs they did. But both of them were never abel to do the early songs justice, ‘cause both lacked that swing, that made early Kiss Songs so special. I love the wild combination of hard rock, swinging drums of Pete and Blues-Like,storytelling Solos of Ace to this day. Sure, they did much heavyer, great stuff in other line ups, but it never became as unique as in the beginning. Gene is a brillant Bass player and Paul a top shelf Songwriter! But it needed Pete‘s Swing and Ace‘s musicality to become unique. It also worked - in a different, more metal way - with Vini and Eric, but as soon as Marc joined, Kiss became (sadly) generic and trend chasing. So - Ace and Pete were pretty importent for Kiss‘ success. Intentionally, not just because „they were there“!
Do you know who Eddie Kramer is ? Look up the people he has worked with . Then look up what he says about Peter Criss on Alive 1 . The ONLY member that DIDN'T have to re-record any of his live parts in the studio . Eddie Kramer has worked with the Stones , Led Zeppelin to name a couple , so he knows his shit . And you don't .
NEIL PEART HAVE LEARN HOW TO PLAY DRUMS FROM PETER BECAUSE PETER HAD THAT SWING , IT WAS NOT EASY FOR NEIL BUT HE COME TO PETERS LEVEL SAYS PETER CRISS
Wishful thinking there, KISS Army zombie. The Professor learned it all from the best drummers in all of music. Real legends like Buddy Rich, John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ian Paice, Ringo Starr, Carl Palmer, Michael Giles, Jim Capaldi, Charlie Watts, Mitch Mitchell, Bill Bruford, Bill Ward, Graeme Edge, Ginger Baker, Don Brewer and Nick Mason.
For me Kiss is more of a brand then a band. Never liked their tunes...They sound as hollow as their philosophy towards music. Then there's the live shows...all the pyro, lasers, and other crap I don't care to see at a show. I saw Lynyrd Skynyrd back in the day and was way too must lasers'n flashing lights to the point that it made me sick. Had to leave early. Then there's bands like Talking Heads, who could do a high energy show with great music. No pyro, flashing light or lasers. Check out their show, Stop Making Sense. That's a great example of a great band putting a great show, with no frills.
I like a few KISS songs but Gene has made it pretty clear over the years that it’s a business and a brand and Geddy Lee has said that KISS was going to give you your money’s worth. I never cared for that type of show either and it seems to be love or hate when it comes to KISS. They are a good band live and they’re very tight but it’s not my cup of tea.
I think what Neal is saying is the business end can be difficult for those people who don’t understand or care for the business end of things. It’s like going from the shop floor to supervision or management. I had a chance to do it but when I saw what was involved it wasn’t worth sacrificing my values or integrity but after I witnessed that it made my job somewhat distasteful at times. Like Neal wrote in Spirit of the Radio : one likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity. That business just eats some people up and I think the management takes advantage of those weaknesses and uses them to defraud these guys or take advantage of them.
Gene and Paul have always tried to play the band managers role. The problems arose mostly after the solo albums released. Thats when egos started flaring, and those two let's face it, limited talent individuals. Saw it as an opportunity to wrestle control of the situation. On the supposed moral high ground of "we gotta SAVE the band man"! We all had to sit there and watch 4 man children, squander the greatest opportunity of their lives. It was sad. All 4 acted like idiots. I'll always be in the "KISS ARMY" Unfortunately, my favorite band members aren't any of the original 4. I'd be more inclined to go see an all new K.I.S.S. band. With all new members, and completely void of any of the oldschool gimmicks, except the iconic giant stage letters. If Gene was smart, which anyone can clearly see. Regardless of what you think of the music. They should seriously consider putting together their own tribute band. With select members that will gladly carry the torch for years to come. I hereby elect one Mr. John5 as the first member, and thereby leader of the new K.I.S.S. band! Charlie on drums and Geddy on bass, which leaves the vocals up for grabs! Ripper Owens gets my vote though. I'd buy tickets to see those villains jam on some classic K.I.S.S. songs instantly! Peace!
🤘🏼 *I've rëad their autobiographies. Paul & Gene had all the initial ideas. Ace wanted the R'n'R lifestyle & even told them he wouldn't carry gear. If that's what he wanted, I respect that. But, Paul & Gene had a vision of 4 equal parts, & it wasn't going to work with 2 guys who wanted to party rather than deal with business. Gene recently said that they couldn't have done it without Ace & Peter at the beginning; and they couldn't have done the last 20 years WITH Ace & Peter. Completely fair.* 🤘🏼
I loved Kiss when I was growing up, but never cared for anything they did post '79. They've only ever been nostalgia to me in my adult life, and Ace and Peter are an inseparable part of that.
Hey, admit it. KISS is much more than nostalgia! KISS 1973-1979 is simply one of the greatest ROCK bands of all time! Along with Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, David Bowie, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, Queen, Rush, Zappa, Cheap Trick, ZZ Top, T Rex, Pink Floyd, etc., they painted the mural of Rock n Roll in the 1970s.
This question is stupid, really. Ace and Peter were great, and like so many rock stars of the era, they fell into some booze and/or drugs. They were both young (esp ACE) at the beginning, and it just sort of happens with some people. Paul and Gene were atypical (like Ted Nugent and Angus Young) in that they didn't like alcohol or drugs. It's all fine and it's just how it was. The 1970s was the greatest decade for ROCK, and we all know that drugs were a part of everything then (music, movies, comedy, etc., etc.)
And whether that's a good thing or not, we all know how much better Alice Cooper and Aerosmith were with the two.
It's sad to say, but I can't stand either of them (their music) straight.
@@CathyLahn- Paul and Gene were straight in the 70's. Some people just can't let the 70's go and continue to live in the past.
Barefoot- KISS had some great stuff post 1979. Better than Dynasty for sure, 1979. No not as many good albums in a row but there are definitely good albums. Paul.and Gene wrote most everything in the 70's so the 80's and beyond aren't really that different. Ace's solos didn't make their songs better than Vinnie's or Bruce's or Tommy's solos. You just need to move on from Ace and Peter being the golden children and accept reality
@@brianstrutter1501 Hey, 80s boy, you do not get it! Ace Frehley made KISS! His solos were absolutely brilliant (songs within themselves) and Kiss was a killer band in the 70s! Great songs, awesome solos and a show that would melt your face off!
All that 80s pap is for mall chicks and morons. And those other guitarists are all "just guys" playing bullshit, non-memorable solos. Ace Frehley's solos are ICONIC.
⚡ 🦇 🌟 🐆
I agree that the stuff past Dynasty wasn’t even close to their music of the 70’s. Their debut album has most of the best songs they ever did, but you have to listen to them on Alive to fully appreciate them. Same with all the tunes from their first 3 albums that appear on Alive. Get Alive and Alive II plus Double Platinum and you own the best Kiss had to offer. But the mystery is why didn’t they continue into the 80’s? The answer is easy. Ace Frehley. Ace didn’t write all the songs but his playing is all over those 70’s Kiss songs. He helped make Gene and Paul’s songs better. Once Ace was gone, so was any assistance he provided to their songs. Ace was the secret weapon. And that’s why Ace’s solo record was the best. I still listen to KISS Alive. Deuce, Parasite, Rock Bottom, Cold Gin, Rockin Roll all nite, and a song Ace kills on, Let Me Go Rock n Roll. Pick up KISS Alive if you haven’t got it yet. It’s a fantastic rock record.
Diehard KISS Fan snce 1977 and I totally agree with Neil.
Appreciate the post!
Kiss hit it really big when they were all pretty young. Peter and Ace behaved like any 20 somethings with fame and fortune.
That’s because they were 20 something’s….
Gene and Paul did too but they were more inteligent on controlingDrugs and Alcohol
@@StarshipTrooper2050good answer
Peter Criss was 30 years old in 1975 😑
@@kenshinoriginal1they didn’t do drugs and Gene never drank - Paul only lightly drank
No Gene and Paul No Kiss.
No Ace and Pete No Kiss.
No Bill Acoin no Sean Delaney No Kiss!!
The initial inspiration was Gene and Paul tho.
And they got a lot help by there friends.
True.
KISS was a show band. Their music served the act. It doesn’t stand on its own very well. It’s not bad rock pop, but it’s not interesting much less deep. It’s fine. There’s a place for that, and their shows were amazing to see. Rush is a whole other dimension. The driving forces and personalities of the two bands were very different and their internal relationships were as well. KISS had a product to sell and no one did it better. Rush created their art their way despite the early obstacles they faced in the music business. They persevered down their own path and found a way through that no one else (but their fans) saw.
Agreed....big Rush fan....Kiss? Unlistenable.
I liked a lot of Kiss songs simple and fun.
I know a guy who managed a couple of Rock groups in the 80s and he told me the temptations to the group members were tremendous. The access to drugs and women were easy. I can see how one might would get affected to all that. The music business could play part in it is very possible, but I believe they just couldn't handle their issues. Peter and Ace. Either way, they made their mark.
Cool comment...
Have to agree with Peart. The music biz makes me sick.
All corporate is corrupt. Films suck, food is toxic, agriculture is destructive, banking is rapacious, war is a racket. Education, automobiles, housing, etc. Everything is fkd.
BS. No tougher that most businesses. Criss and Frehley were uneducated HS dropouts who couldn’t handle responsibility or be professional. They would have been fired long before they were in any other business.
It's a real meat grinder. And it's getting worse.
I think If Ace and Peter were carpenters they he would have been alcoholics, had Gene and Paul been Real Estate developers they would have been just as successful.
That comment is rock solid. 👍
@@TalkLinkMusic-gd7fz All about $$$.
Well said.
Don’t discount Neil Peart’s high perception focused at the dynamics of KISS.
The first album I bought with my own money was Destroyer in 1978.
Good choice.
As a musician for most of my life I will say that Peter was the most talented member when it came to playing his instrument. Peter could have easily played with a number of other rock bands and done well with them while the other 3 well, not so much. The music Kiss did was okay, but their best ones were the ones with the string sections and other instrumentation added in. The ones with just the 4 of them playing sounded like self-taught 15-year-olds in a garage, but that is just my personal opinion. What made them so big had a lot more to do with the costumes, makeup, and stage show than the music itself.
Appreciate this viewpoint! 😎
my first concert in the mid 1970s was kiss at the san antonio college coliseum (SACC) with this (then unknown to me) little 3 peice band (rush) opening. I was a typical texas teenage dirtbag who idolized kiss, and arrived for the "show". once rush took the stage and kicked it into "high" gear, I can honestly say that I was mesmerized. I've remained a life long fan of both although my musical taste has been overwhelmingly in favor of that little ole band from canada.....
Excellent story!
@@TalkLinkMusic-gd7fz thanx.... such Gr8 memories.......
Right on
I'm from tillsonburg Ontario Canada
I'm 58 years old and guys older than me seen rush when they were starting out in little halls and bars.
Everything Kiss had really ended with the departure of A & P. It’s basically the same 15 songs over and over. You could see that with their live shows. They still lived off those first 4 albums 40 years later.
It was also the end for Ace and Pete. Neither did Jack after 79. Ace had a few vanilla albums, living off name only, and playing clubs.
Few worked harder from 73 to 79. Rush and Kiss. Imagine 2 albums per year. That’s crazy pace- ESPECIALLY for Rush, which had complex music and substance.
I won't argue with any of this. 😎
KISS absolutely were corporate, they sold everything from cars to coffins to their fans. I would absolutely agree that Ace was integral to the early sound and Peter wrote Beth which was their biggest hit at the time. Ace's solo record was the one that sold the most too. Saying they were integral is just stating the obvious. Cynicism or lack thereof? I don't know.
There's another way to put it. Even Ace Frehley referred to Gene and Paul as workaholics and that he and Peter just couldn't keep up with that sort of lifestyle. Ace and Peter were essential to the sound and style of the band. It's hard to keep a band together for a long haul. Given the distinct personality differences it was inevitable that the band split and it's amazing that we got the years we did out of that original line-up.
Many many musicians are not business-minded, and so the realities of the music business really do not gel well with their sensibilities. However, very few musicians get the opportunities that is freely and Peter Criss got from being in cash so I think there is a lesson here, but at the same time I don't feel too sorry for either of those guys. There are plenty of musicians you've been treated just as poorly who also did not have millions of dollars in their bank account at one time
The entertainment industry has nothing in common with having a normal job or career. The uncertainty and rootlessness is more akin to travelling with a circus.
Every young band with dreams of the big time would benefit from knowing all this going into the music industry. Many many musicians would sell their souls to be in that small club and that's all I'll say about that. I was a drummer in a band with a guitarist and we went through numerous singers and bass players. Had we hooked up with a charismatic singer and become well known for our 15 minutes of fame we'd have sat on the sidelines and let that singer become the face and voice of our little band. Even though a junior partner in the firm he/she would've also become the decision maker whether or not the guitar player and I liked it. Knowing that the singer was our meal ticket that allowed us to play bigger venues and make more money than we could have otherwise made we'd have had to play that game. Like Glen Campbell sang "there's been a load of compromisin' on the road to my horizon" is a reality every musician must be prepared to face. He or she who can adapt and play their role gets wealthier, their pictures in magazines and other perks instead of working a 9 to 5 grind. In short, for everything you get you have to also give something else up. That usually is a spouse you'd've been a lot happier with all your life.
Appreciate these insider-insights. Music is a hobby for me, and I've never considered being a working musician. I have mad respect for anyone who does it at any level. 👍
Being born in 1973, I never heard of Kiss until 1987 when they were doing their glam thing (which I loved.). I even knew Frehley’s Comet before I discovered 70’s Kiss.
That's very interesting. So how did Kiss strike you after hearing Ace first?
I would like to share a little trivia in regards to Rush's connection with KISS, but mostly Gene and Paul.
Before KISS, Gene and Paul had a band called Wicked Lester, which recorded an album for Epic Records, but was rejected by Epic. At the same time, Rush was turned down by Epic Records as well. Later on, when Gene and Paul founded KISS, they were hitting New York City clubs and were signed later on to Casablanca Records, who were the label's very first big signing after one off record releases by various artists who weren't taking off. Around the same time that KISS were headling their own tours, Casablanca also turned Rush down. Neil Bogart's cousin Larry Harris was the label's vice president and he was the one who turned down Rush, who were later picked up by Mercury Records, which KISS would be become signed to after PolyGram closed off Casablanca, even though they had a hit album with the "Flashdance" soundtrack and their last album release was Animotion's Strange Behavior.
I just wanted to share. Thanks for uploading. I also subscribed and signed up for notifications. Keep them coming.
Thanks for these details!!! I wonder if / how much Ray Daniels was involved in all this? Appreciate your support! 👍
@@TalkLinkMusic-gd7fz You're very welcome and my pleasure. I'm glad to be of help. Thanks again.
God I miss the Professor 💔💔💔💔
Peart is 100% correct.
“ kiss was a perfectly run corporation”
Despite all the flash and glam Kiss' songs were heavy but not metal, and catchy but not pop. That is why they were successful they had good songs. Always loved their sound. A band like Talking Heads holds nothing for me ...yawn.
its the opposite for me, Kiss and that style of rock is a big yawn to me. In fact hard rock in general has become a big yawn to me. When I wwas younger I loved hard rock.
For example, now I cant imagine anything more boring than listening to something like Smoke on the water or something by black sabbath..... ac/dc goes without saying..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Now, a band like Talking Heads appeals to me way more.
Cocteau Twins>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kiss
Very cool interview. RIP Neil. Awesome drummer indeed. Very insightful, thx.
Appreciate the support! And, ya, Neil is always interesting to listen to... 👍
Tactfully put, and so true.
EVERYTHING that came out Neil Peart's mouth was true. The guy was a philosopher. I miss him so much, as well as Chris Squire. RIP.
Go watch the Tom Snyder KISS interview from 1979, look at Gene's expression as Ace and Peter basically take over the interview, Ace was most likely coked and alcoholed up and was enjoying himself, while Peter was his wing man. Gene looked on incredulously and was trying to be serious and Paul just went along with Gene.
None of you have played Kiss as a band .If you had you would know how much stops and starts there are and Peter was very underrated. Try playing it in a band,prove me wrong .
Exactly. Classic Kiss is real f-ing music. I wish people would see this! 😎
Almost makes you wonder if 2112 was actually about Gene and Paul as the priests and the protagonist being based on Ace and Peter
Not a KISS fan. But it seems to me that it was Simmons and Stanley who had the total vision of KISS. Ace and Criss did not share the same vision, or at least on the same level. This appears to have been by design on Simmons’ and Stanley’s part. They started the band. Ace and Criss came in by way of audition.
That's definitely the version Gene and Paul would like people to believe. The concept and sound for Kiss really developed from all 4 original members. If you listen to Wicked Lester, it will give you a good idea of what Ace and Peter contributed to the band.
@@ghostlightdc No question about Ace and Criss’ contributions. It appears that they were fully tapped into the style of the music and their stage characters. But it was Simmons and Stanley who formed a partnership to invent the band, the image, the brand, and the marketing in the first place. It was not a situation where four players got together and the image developed out of their collaboration together. Simmons and Stanley had formed nearly the entire vision of the band before auditioning for the other players to fulfill it. They auditioned many, and chose Ace and Criss as the best ones with which to do so.
@@scottstedeford7575 I think that's partly true. The whole idea of the make up however was an evolution that happened only after Ace and Peter joined. Even Gene and Paul have always said that they "all" created the idea of wearing makeup. It evolved out of them experimenting with an androgynous look like the Dolls. ACE created the logo too. Gene and Paul definitely were the ones with the drive, but they neglect how much of an influence the others were on inventing what became Kiss.
@@ghostlightdc The part of the KISS story I get a kick out most is that it was Ace who landed the best selling solo record and Criss who wrote the band’s far and away biggest hit. Rich irony.
I think it was the malignant narcissism of Gene and Paul that split the band
Of course, Kiss was always a business. Rock and roll clowns, but not in a bad way. You want serious then get into prog bands like Yes, Rush, or Emerson Lake and Palmer.
The music industry is becoming increasingly popular to be honest have a wonderful day ❤😊
Perhaps Ace and Peter avoided the things that could destroy their souls like greed and avarice while Gene and Paul wouldn't allow a lifestyle of their artistry to destroy their bodies.
Greed may well be as destructive as drugs. Interesting thought.
Seen them in concert. And can tell you first hand that Paul Stanley in the middle of the show said in a whinny and totally Condescending way said… Ace wants to play a song. Which confirmed to me that he and Gene ran the show with an iron fist. Exactly like Metallica with James and Lars. But the way Paul Stanley said it, I just lost all respect for him. And felt bad for Ace and Peter.
All my friends loved kiss sorry but I called them clowns of rock 😮
When you watch old video footage of kiss and lsten to old recteongs Ace always soinded on point.
I'm a fan of the original lineup and the 80's lineup with Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick. I became aware of Kiss in the summer of '89 and had their self-titled 8-track tape. I had the 8-track tape with Kissin Time, so it was the common one to find. The most rare is their self-titled album without Kissin Time. I absolutely loved their makeup. It was both beautiful and shocking to me as a preteen. I also enjoyed some of their 80's stuff equally. For me, I read extensively about Kiss back in the day pre-internet since that's all there was. I hadn't known a great deal about Peter and Ace's departure back then as a preteen since not a lot of their past substance abuse surfaced in magazines. I always heard they were fired/ to they left the band by 79' for Peter. Ace left in 1982, I believe. I did talk a lot with the older Kiss fans back then the time and they graciously told me everything about them. I had jotted down a lot of information on index cards that I'd carry on my person along with a pencil in my hip pack. I was serious about skateboarding at the time. It was my transportation and recreation, something that for me, went perfectly together with rock music.
I was a preteen back in the late 80's and I never forgot that raw energy I detected from those old analog Kiss 8-track tapes. I enjoyed the Dynasty album even though it's rock disco and at this time I was veering into classic and hard rock. I was previously a metal head. I have both the Dynasty 8-track tape and LP still. All of my original Kiss collection was hand-me-down, used stuff that still holds a lot of sentimental attachment for me. I still listen to the same formats to this very day. It still sounds as good now as it did to me back then, albeit very primitive by today's standards.
As for Peter and Ace's drug/ alcoholism I see this occur time and again in other musicians, and not just aimed strictly to rock bands/hard rock, heavy metal (I put in heavy metal as some of my heavy metal favorites like Judas Priest and WASP, for example also fell into debauchery and the common music industry trappings), etc. As I got older, I read and bought more books about Kiss and various other bands that I love. I'm more of an old fashioned bookworm and less about wading through pages of internet information and trying to sort out misinformation in some cases.
Unfortunately, I never kept my original stack of index cards and I wish I had kept them so I could show my nieces and nephews who are now of the age where they appreciate all kinds of music and were intrigued with my re-telling "Back in my day, if it was too loud, then you're too old..." 😊😂 My nephews wanted to see and hear an 8-track tape so I promised them the next time they stop in I'll have everything set up, cued up, and ready to rock n' roll. Same goes for the cassette tapes too. Their formats are digital and stored online. Mine are physical, nowadays the 8-track tapes are pushing almost 50 some years, but play as to be expected.
In all, yes, I agree with what Neil Pert said. However, I think that when younger and have temptations all around us, it's common for some to get carried away by the fame, excesses, etc. Ace and Peter may not have been perfect angels, and I wouldn't expect them to be yet they remain my favorites because they overcame their addictions. They also contributed a lot to Kiss in the early years. Some of their best albums were their self-titled album on through Alive II and Love Gun. I realize that Dynasty was rock disco, but I liked it. I realized early on being a new fan that Kiss were going to try different musical approaches and it wasn't going to stay classic hard rock. I always thought their Unmasked album was pop rock, but still had some catchy songs. And equally so of their various 80's lineups. They had a few good albums from Creatures of the Night to Lick It Up, etc. 😊
Great post! 😎
KISS Meets The Phantom is what broke up the band. Thats when Ace and Peter had enough of the corporate bullshit and knew it was a joke to begin with. They became very jaded and were done with it.
Rock is a business first vs art. That is if you plan to make a living that way. They were employees that were well compensated band had no discipline.
The music *business* -- exactly. 👍 And it really chews people up sometimes.
I love Kiss the band. Kiss the corporation? Not so much.
👍
KISS (1973-1979) is simply one of the greatest ROCK bands of all time! Along with Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, David Bowie, Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, Queen, Rush, Zappa, Cheap Trick, ZZ Top, T Rex, Pink Floyd, etc., they painted the mural of Rock 'n Roll in the 1970s.
This question is stupid, really. Ace and Peter were great, and like so many rock stars of the era, they fell into some booze and/or drugs. They were both young (esp ACE) at the beginning, and it just sort of happens with some people. Paul and Gene were atypical (like Ted Nugent and Angus Young) in that they didn't like alcohol or drugs. It's all fine and it's just how it was.
The 1970s was the greatest decade for ROCK, and we all know that drugs were a part of everything then (music, movies, comedy, etc., etc.)
And whether that's a good thing or not, we also know how much better Alice Cooper and Aerosmith were with the two.
It's sad to say, but I can't stand either of them (their music) straight.
Peter wasn’t young. He was nearly 30 when they started.
@@thetroublewiththat You're right. He was 27. Still, that's not so old. Ace was 22. No matter, all this talk about drugs and alcohol. Gimme a break. The 70s was loaded with both, and the best rock n roll of all time came from within that awesome era. To me, it was about "using it the right way." Just enough to spark your mind and creativity, and never too much, so that you're strung out & overloaded.
But as we all know (or should know), it was a time of invention and wild, chance taking effort. And many great rock stars had an issue with drugs, because ROCK was IT. Truly...IT! And there was a lot of pressure to make, and keep making great music. Plus, there was that sense of unadulterated freedom that drove the artist.
Either way, whether they did it or not, they really shouldn't be judged on that, because the era was all consumed with music, films, drugs, booze, creative inspiration and at times, God-like results.
✨
@@CathyLahn 27 is quite old to be still trying to get a foothold at success in music.
Even Peter was concerned about his age, really hoping Kiss was his ticket. He knew he was running out of chances, according to ex wife Lydia.
@@thetroublewiththat Yeah, fine. So what. Some performers don't start till later, or maybe they don't get their break right away. Many good musicians don't break through at all.
So Peter was the old man of the group at 27. Kinda like Bon Scott with AC/DC. No big deal.
What's the song playing at the end?
It's one of my tracks called "Summer Eyes." You can hear the whole thing here: th-cam.com/video/YyYcLQmoXlY/w-d-xo.html
@@TalkLinkMusic-gd7fz thanks
It’s a culmination of many things that caused the internal strife and eventual breakup of the original/classic lineup. Peter and Ace had self-control issues when it came to drugs and alcohol. Gene and Paul steered the band in a direction away from the raw energy band they were at the beginning, while marketing the band to exhaustion. It’s easy to blame it all on Ace and Peter and their drug use, and they do deserve a lot of the blame, but all 4 contributed to their downfall.
Excellent insights. 👍 Plus, most, if not all, bands have a life cycle that includes line-up changes.
Peter and Ace are/were losers. They had the keys to the kingdom and they threw it away. Eddie Kramers opinion means about as much to me as Paul and genes.
A little bit of both.
my 3rd band was called the Pangs but we were without a drummer. the first guy we auditioned was a guy named Jay Brandt here in San Diego....this was 1985...he was young clean collegiate upbeat and organized. as he was setting up i asked him "so who's your favorite drummer?"
he said Neil Pert....i said "good just don't drum like and well be okay". he looked at me without saying a word and smiled. he was the best damned drummer and he never tried to be Neil Pert while drumming for the Pangs. this other cartoon band i have no comment on but i did quite like Beth.
Well, Beth is only barely a Kiss song, so you're clean. lol
Does anyone who grew up in the 70s actually know anyone who listened to kiss after the age of 10 or 12 at the most?
I mean' I wasnt even ten when I already grew out of them.
Cartoon rock from day one.
But having a target audience at that tender age worked for them and they made a career out it. Such is the world of entertainment.
Theres something for everyone at all ages.
The first three or four years kiss fan base audience or in their twenties it was the middle to late seventies to when they became a worldwide phenomenon younger kids started liking them. In a similar way years before the same thing happened to The Beatles.
Green Day apparently was accidentally a kids band. Anecdotal, but I have heard tales of dismay from the band about tons of kids showing up at least in their earlier shows.
@@robjones8733 was anyone who was an adult over the age of 18 in the 90s a fan of green day?
🤣🤣
@@djshad1885 good point. dookey was a great name for an album 🤨
Both aspects can be true at the same time, and most likely are.
No doubt about it. 😎
They all had different goals. The end.
True about goals, for sure.
Kiss weren't a band in high school. Paul and Gene didn't know each other in high school. This is a bunch of hindsight.
Ya, Neil may have been a bit off on some details, but I'm pretty sure Gene and Paul did know each other in High School. I just don't think they had sketches of Kiss stuff that early.
Who compared peter and Neil??? Huge insult to Neil.
As much as I love Kiss. Fan since 1976. Gene and Paul are A holes
Wait till one or both are gone, and then we'll get the truth on what they really did to Eric. Assholes doesn't even cover it.
I always thought they were high school stuff & a joke. The dumb painted faces and all the production. Never cared much for Gene Simmons personally. Seems like they put out what they thought people would lap up so they could get rich. They just never seemed really serious about the music.
Kiss is a carnival show. Ever see their movie where they secretly inhabit an amusement park? It’s a hoot. Shows they understood the assignment and their position in the music universe. Anyway, if you like KISS for their music, you’ve probably licked more than a few windows. Have a good day.
KISS SUCKS YUCK 🤮
I was a huge KISS fan but left once the disco song came out. From there I knew some of their music but never bought anymore. Now, I’m sorry I didn’t know more about them before throwing that money away.
They were happy to spend you $$$ you can be sure of that!
Without Gene's vision (and personal money) KISS would've never become huge. Ace and Peter brought a LOT, but they didn't take things as seriously as they should've. And, yes, they had issues BEFORE the band. I've read their bios.
Yep. Agree w/ this.
Peter and Ace were Kiss. Gene is a asshole that put too much into the business end and not enough into the music. Everything they made after Creatures sucked. In their book they said they would give Ace drinks because he played better. It also said Peter had a very big ego. Watch the Tom Snyder interview and you'll see the asshole Gene really is. Peter, Ace and Tom having a good time and it seemed Paul wanted in on it too. As far as musicians go. Gene is the weak link in that category. Peter is a great drummer and Ace is a awesome guitarist. Love for Paul too but Gene sucks . After Eric Carr there is no Kiss
Great post! I think many would agree. Maybe even Paul, lol ....
@@TalkLinkMusic-gd7fz I mean that's the way I see it. I was ten in 77. And I wanted to be Peter Criss. I've heard multiple musicians say all they wanted to be Gene when they were growing up but I March to the beat of my own drummer. I'm never surprised by my separation from the majority. I always like the thing most despise. I was a little harsh in the post but I don't sugarcoat things. And having those other guys wear Ace and Peter's altee ego was a slap in the face to everyone including the involved and fans. Big F you to everyone from the Self proclaimed demon. I wonder if they just ran out of ideas
Funny thing is I never learned the drums. I sing and play a little guitar. My mother forbid my loving Kiss. Needless to say it was ignored. She was a holy roller. I was ten. And a rebel from day one. Black Diamond is my favorite song. Alive 1&2 are my favorite albums. And Neil was probably right. But rock n roll isn't supposed to be like Gene made the band. Have a good one
kiss had 4 members. 3 wanted to be and became rock stars but one was born a rock star. you can easily see who the later is
One is still a rock star.
Ace and Peter were victems of Paul and Gene...
Kiss was nothing but a stage show whereas Rush were and regarded as one of the best talented musicians
and band ever. It must be noted that Kiss were booed off stage with the "we want Rush chants" from the audience cause they wanted to here music not theatrics.so Kiss said you cant tour with us anymore.
I've never read anywhere that RUSH said anything like that happening. What's your source?
I’ve listened and read a lot of what the members are Rush had said, and they only had high regards for the members of Kiss and the way theytreated by them
You are so full of sheet
Can you cite this?
@@RobertJagersky lies Dork
Nah, Ace and Peter were just f-ups who wanted to party and exploit the fame for fun. Ace provided a certain musical quality to the band but Peter was there just because he was there and Paul and Gene were glad to replace him as soon as possible.
Kiss sucks without Peter and Ace. So much so that they had scabs stand in for them and it was awful. Sorry. Tommy and Eric are not the real Kiss. Period.
I think, both Erics worked well at their time with the Songs they did. But both of them were never abel to do the early songs justice, ‘cause both lacked that swing, that made early Kiss Songs so special. I love the wild combination of hard rock, swinging drums of Pete and Blues-Like,storytelling Solos of Ace to this day. Sure, they did much heavyer, great stuff in other line ups, but it never became as unique as in the beginning.
Gene is a brillant Bass player and Paul a top shelf Songwriter! But it needed Pete‘s Swing and Ace‘s musicality to become unique.
It also worked - in a different, more metal way - with Vini and Eric, but as soon as Marc joined, Kiss became (sadly) generic and trend chasing.
So - Ace and Pete were pretty importent for Kiss‘ success. Intentionally, not just because „they were there“!
Do you know who Eddie Kramer is ? Look up the people he has worked with . Then look up what he says about Peter Criss on Alive 1 . The ONLY member that DIDN'T have to re-record any of his live parts in the studio . Eddie Kramer has worked with the Stones , Led Zeppelin to name a couple , so he knows his shit . And you don't .
NEIL PEART HAVE LEARN HOW TO PLAY DRUMS FROM PETER BECAUSE PETER HAD THAT SWING , IT WAS NOT EASY FOR NEIL BUT HE COME TO PETERS LEVEL SAYS PETER CRISS
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 good one. 😂
Wishful thinking there, KISS Army zombie. The Professor learned it all from the best drummers in all of music. Real legends like Buddy Rich, John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ian Paice, Ringo Starr, Carl Palmer, Michael Giles, Jim Capaldi, Charlie Watts, Mitch Mitchell, Bill Bruford, Bill Ward, Graeme Edge, Ginger Baker, Don Brewer and Nick Mason.
Freddie Grueber
I've got a vid coming up on him and Neil.
For me Kiss is more of a brand then a band. Never liked their tunes...They sound as hollow as their philosophy towards music. Then there's the live shows...all the pyro, lasers, and other crap I don't care to see at a show. I saw Lynyrd Skynyrd back in the day and was way too must lasers'n flashing lights to the point that it made me sick. Had to leave early. Then there's bands like Talking Heads, who could do a high energy show with great music. No pyro, flashing light or lasers. Check out their show, Stop Making Sense. That's a great example of a great band putting a great show, with no frills.
I like a few KISS songs but Gene has made it pretty clear over the years that it’s a business and a brand and Geddy Lee has said that KISS was going to give you your money’s worth. I never cared for that type of show either and it seems to be love or hate when it comes to KISS. They are a good band live and they’re very tight but it’s not my cup of tea.
I think what Neal is saying is the business end can be difficult for those people who don’t understand or care for the business end of things. It’s like going from the shop floor to supervision or management. I had a chance to do it but when I saw what was involved it wasn’t worth sacrificing my values or integrity but after I witnessed that it made my job somewhat distasteful at times. Like Neal wrote in Spirit of the Radio : one likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity. That business just eats some people up and I think the management takes advantage of those weaknesses and uses them to defraud these guys or take advantage of them.
Skynyrd with lasers and flashing lights? Never would have guessed that
@@funkster007It was late 90's, but atleast no pyro
Lol not quite
Gene and Paul have always tried to play the band managers role. The problems arose mostly after the solo albums released. Thats when egos started flaring, and those two let's face it, limited talent individuals. Saw it as an opportunity to wrestle control of the situation. On the supposed moral high ground of "we gotta SAVE the band man"!
We all had to sit there and watch 4 man children, squander the greatest opportunity of their lives. It was sad. All 4 acted like idiots.
I'll always be in the "KISS ARMY"
Unfortunately, my favorite band members aren't any of the original 4. I'd be more inclined to go see an all new K.I.S.S. band. With all new members, and completely void of any of the oldschool gimmicks, except the iconic giant stage letters.
If Gene was smart, which anyone can clearly see. Regardless of what you think of the music. They should seriously consider putting together their own tribute band. With select members that will gladly carry the torch for years to come.
I hereby elect one Mr. John5 as the first member, and thereby leader of the new K.I.S.S. band! Charlie on drums and Geddy on bass, which leaves the vocals up for grabs! Ripper Owens gets my vote though.
I'd buy tickets to see those villains jam on some classic K.I.S.S. songs instantly!
Peace!
Don't wish to hard! It might just happen!
imo the hard drug use caused them to be unable to live up to their potential. So that does not change the game.
I believe that the others had to play a certain way for Peter to be good. So, they had to play it down to Peter's abilities.
Neil stole Peter Chris's solo. Even using the same effects on it.
Man, that's true. Almost worth doing a video about but the LZ fans would eat me alive. 😎