10kw Electric Motor v 30hp Diesel - plus full 10kw review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2024
- Can a 10kw electric motor compare in any way to a 30hp diesel? With our 10kw install complete and tested for 2 months you will see real life tests to compare the 10kw electric to our 30hp diesel. Then you will see how the 10kw compares at various power draws and the expected range of the 15kw lifepo4 battery. Plus much more.
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For those not familiar, motoring at 2.5-3 knots is very pleasant as long as you aren't rushing to beat the weather, bad tide, or a closing marina, etc.
Luckily we can also power up a whole lot faster to push a tide, beat bad weather and reach a closing marina. Your right though, one does not want to build a system that cannot do theses things.
Big tip for E power is to use a different prop. Typically e motor props use larger diameter scimitar multi bladed props.. if you have shaft drive you may also be able to use regen .
If you want to see whats possible look at the bearfoot doctors tour of the Windelo cats. the other interesting boat is the NZ designed Earthling e40 power cat. It uses a sailing cat hull...but look at the size of the props .. its designed to cruise at up to ten knots. If you can sell your engine see if you can pick up a small quiet efficient generator. That way you dont need to expand your battery pack size..
If you had gone for a 15kwhr motor you could use the higher torque and run at lower rpm so you gain in performance and reduce draw for any given speed .. the displacement hulls generate a doubling of current for any given increase in speed beyond that efficient displacement hull speed.
If you didn't want to back up with a generator running at its Stoichiometric optimum..
You could use a hydro generator leg while under sail... Hydro generation under sail or occasional generator use will also allow charging at night.
Thank you Clive for this great input, I'll check out all these things you've mentioned. I do know that my propeller pitch was always a bit too high for the diesel, so it feels like it is now well suited for lower revs when running the electric. Lots of interesting things to learn that is for sure!
At 7.5 knots 50V * 280A = 14 kW input. However looking at the datasheet for the HPM48-10000, at 280A it's producing about 29 Nm of torque. At 2560 RPM that's 7.77 kW output. Only 55% efficiency. Peak power efficiency appears to be about 80% at 3400 RPM. Suggesting you are over-propped by 35%. The lower speeds are even less efficient.
If you want it to be efficient across the entire power range, a controllable pitch propeller is needed = $$$.
Thank you for your input Craig. I certainly don't claim to understand this completely. I do know that the performance of my 10kw motor has totally impressed me. It does everything my impressive 30hp diesel used to do and this seems rather remarkable, especially considering this is a 50 foot catamaran with considerable windage. According to the Volvo Penta specs, 2600rpm equates to 17kw of power, so there seems many ways to see things. Yes, no doubt a variable pitched propeller would offer advantages , but I am predominantly interested in my boats sailing ability and very happy with my sleek, Gori folding propeller. All the best and thank you again for offering the math to back up your point.
It's not my area of expertise, but it's my understanding that high performance DC electric motors are at full torque at all RPM's, which is why the electric motor has better acceleration than the diesel engine (I think). Love the video, btw!
Yes, unlike diesels which seem to need to build up their revs to generate the torque to get the prop going, the electric motor has its full available torque straight away. And that certainly can be felt when putting on the power. I 'd often heard about the full torque (for those rpms) but was impressed to feel it in action.
Good videos, I am just embarking on this system planning, have a 40ft cat in Phuket and currently using outboards, looking to sort a pod set up ,,so keep up the very informative vids , Cheers.
Thank you Frankcus. It's all certainly very achievable these days. Next video is on that key power source, the solar system, which catamarans are just perfect for. Best of luck!
Good informing us all , I find the goldenmotor a little noisy for electric propulsion however allways better than diesel
Yes, maybe so, but I don't know what the Montenergy ones sound like to compare. Certainly in my videos most of the noise comes from the saildrive gearing and the propeller noise. When I run just the electric motor it seems very quiet.
Thanks for the great video. Just a quick question, how much does the boat weigh?
Good question. It's weighed racing weight is 7500kg with its water and fuel tanks empty. They would have been a least half full in this video. Onboard supplies, books, Laser dinghy, bike etc are also not counted in that figure. So probably around 8200kg in this video.
👍№ 77
Referring to yourself as humble seems to be the antithesis of the expression.
Haha, yes fair comment!
hek ye i have been checking yt daily for this video. My motor arrived a few weeks ago. I am hoping for similar performance on my trimaran.
Good luck with your project. The cooling system is a key thing and I'll be doing a video on this interesting aspect fairly soon.
Looks like a great solution.
What do you think of Pod motors? Did you consider them as a solution? My thoughts are that a pod will simplify the setup by another factor. No shaft, no cooling requirement, no stern gland etc.... Also to note, Golden Motor have a secret project based on Pod motors coming out soon (I have some photos of their prototypes).
Looking forward to your next video 😀
Hello Phil! Yes, I was just recently looking at the GM outboards, which look like pod motors. Definitely the whole cooling issue would be solved etc. As you say it does simplify many things. For me of course I like the fact I don't have to put it down before using it and that's the system I have. Also having your propeller lift out would be great as they are hard to antifoul!
@@AndrewStransky-cc2dr Their pods are based on those outboards (Same specs). You could make a well at the back of the boat along with a separate compartment for safety where the pod lifts into the boat eliminating drag and the need to antifoul.
Ooo, what size pod are they working on? If 10-15kW then I'm really interested!
@@bluemu They have a 10.5 (These are based on the outboards they already sell). These have no transmission so most of that power goes straight to thrust instead of through gears, shafts and bearings. The other solution which is a bit more expensive is ePropulsion's new 12Kw pod. I am going a pod with my 28ft yacht once the next gen of battery tech is available.
So just to comfirm your running the diesel port side and the electric on the starboard for testing ?
Hello Dave, yes, sorry if I wasn't so cleat on that. I figured it was a nice way to start, giving a hybrid system. And of course makes it easy to do the electric v diesel comparison.
Will you convert the port side to electric also, if so you could make a dolly with wheels and tracks to remove the diesel motor, it looked like a huge task in the video. I'm looking at converting my 30hp outboard to electric in spring, at the moment converting a 250 trail bike to electric.
@@davecarter34 at present I'm pretty happy with just one electric motor converted. We run the other diesel so little we are basically 95% electric already. I may change it over in the future, but for now I just want to go sailing. Yes, we did take a difficult path in removing that motor, haha! A dolly with wheels and a carefully built track would be ultimately easier, but a lot more work would be involved in the preparation, whereas we charged in cold and struggled but got it done in the day. Sounds like you are getting a lot of experience in electric conversions. Wishing you all the best.
@AndrewStransky-cc2dr so you have created a hybrid, you can run on wind, solar electric and diesel. That's great well done look forward to more videos
@@davecarter34 thank you! Yes the wind power is certainly a key part of system.
Nice, is it possible to regenerate batteries when sailing?
It is possible, and I think all I need to do is get a brake and use it while free spinning the prop. It is not something that appeals to me much though as I don't like the noise of the prop spinning like that sailing and have been happy with just using solar power so far. Given time I will test it out though as it could be useful at times.
Wait untill you are running your engine to stop dragging against a storm in the night, can you do 12 hours?
We do actually still have a hybrid system, so could hold into a storm all night. I have lived aboard a boat most of my life, sailed twice around the world and have never needed to do this though. Several times for less than an hour holding into a Sumartra and afternoon thunder-squalls. All night would be hellish and I would head to sea or set a second anchor, or even better ensure I was in a appropriate anchorage with good holding and ensure my anchor tackle was top notch. Thank you for raising this point though. All the best.
When you remove the other engine and add another electric motor you will be able to achieve higher speeds and use less amps since you will have 2 motors pushing at lower rpms. Do you have regen?
Very true and one day I will do the other engine, but for now am happy to be out cruising and pretty much 95% full electric. I'm as yet to sort out the regen side of things as have been doing well on just solar but will certainly look to sort regen for those dark days and long passages.
@@AndrewStransky-cc2dr Regen while motoring isn't going to be worth much. You're going to be an expert by the time you remove the diesel. Look into the smallest 2nd 48V battery bank that can safely deliver necessary amps to the 2nd motor and then a safe way to charge it via the primary 48V bank. I suspect a little more battery, less rpm with 2 motors, could lead to 24hr ~3 knot motoring via the solar until the wind comes back. If not, can look into Watt & Sea but I think you're past that. For instance, 2 motors powering at 3 knots needs how many kW and how much does your solar typically put out?
And I can see where you have little motivation to remove the diesel.
@@artsmith103 I think the main reason I'm in no rush to remove the other diesel is that we so very rarely use it. We can already run for 20hrs at 3 knots (15amp draw),, but in a lifetime of sailing I have never needed to do this. We have our very best efficiencies built into our sailing systems so our main requirement from our motors is for good thrust while manoeuvring.
@@AndrewStransky-cc2dr I agree. Virtually no reason to remove the diesel. It's a better backup than a 2nd electric. It doesn't hurt anything. I suspect it's space including tankage isn't too valuable. Just have to be careful about old diesel fuel ;-)
Funny comparison, Priuses have a monitoring system to burn gasoline regardless of need if the tank is getting too old.
@@artsmith103 Interesting about the Prius. We hardly ever carry much fuel, rarely more than 20/30l, but sure,it is still a concern it getting old.
I might have missed it, but; What is your displacement, and what prop do you have?
Yes, I did mention it in Eprisode 1, it is 7500kg or 16500 lb. The props are 2 blade Gori folding 16.5 inch x 13 inch pitch. They always felt slightly overpitched for the diesels but I feel that now it is a good thing with the electric, giving better speed at those very economical lower power modes. Yes, it looks like your 3 blade feathering will be fine when you set your pitch. As you rightly say, new ones are hugely expensive so its great you can reset your pitch.
@@AndrewStransky-cc2dr Ah, I missed that, thanks for repeating. You're just a touch lighter than me, I'll be ~8 tonnes / 18,000lbs, and a 16" prop (as you know ^_^). So your numbers shouldn't be too far off mine, and indeed they seem to be fairly close. I suppose with folding, regen is out... Annoying how pricey new props are, especially when you've got two! 13" pitch is interesting... I've been talking to folks, including PYI, and they're suggesting I start at 13.4" / 24 degree pitch, and go up from there. So your 13" sounds pretty dead on. You've got two motors, right? So the reported amperage was split between the two motors?
@@TheDigitalMermaid that's ok. My props can spin powerfully when we shut off the motor and I think regen could work but I haven't really considered it. I have only converted one of my motors so the other is still the diesel. My figures were for just the one electric motor running on its own. Interesting about the pitch and it does feel pretty right I must say.
Oh yes, here is the link to the full Fantasia story. www.amazon.com/dp/064890170X