The Problem with Spartan-IVs and GEN3 MJOLNIR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode: We discuss the lore problems with the Spartan-IV's and the GEN 3 Platform of MJOLNIR Armor.
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Augmented Human in Gen3: Super Soldier
Normie Human in Gen3: Mechanical equipment for picking up heavy stuff.
I agree, I don't really see the issue. They'd still be way less effective at using it.
@@Epiousios18 yeah like straight up I feel it would be like fallout. Not just military personnel but all types of people wre using power armor for combat or just exploration.
Don't forget that the normie human in Mjolnir would also be a walking tank, albeit one much slower and more sluggish than if a spartan wore the suit.
@@yijieteng6686 I just imagine the P-5000 Powered Work Loader from Aliens and how that functions.
@@yijieteng6686 still much faster than any unaugmented human without Mjolnir. If one came to our universe right now, he could obliterate any special forces operator in seconds
I think even IF the Mjolnir Gen3 is wearable by normal humans turns out to be true, I think the limit of what a normal human could be able to do with a Gen3 suit would make it not at all viable to even consider fielding unaugmented Mjolnir equipped soldiers. The augmentations of Gen4 Spartans, while not the pinnacle like Gen2, are still leaps and bounds above baseline humanity that they can only reasonably justify the cost of a Mjolnir suit on an augmented Spartan to actually get the most out of the suit and by extension the person wearing it.
The only way I could foresee Mjolnir going widespread to unaugmented humans would be some hypothetical Gen of armor that can bring a normal human up Spartan levels without any need for augmentations at all outside of the standard UNSC neural implant
if there were to be any wide fielded PA I think it'd be more along what Spartan 3's got with SPI when they weren't given actual Mjolnir
I think GEN4-5 will likely end up similar to that given the fact that ONI is currently looking into reverse engineering Forerunner combat skins and design seeds.
I think it's like having to limit the Armor Enhancements and Abilities, you could be more stronger by 25%, but won't be utilising the full potential of the suit. It reminds me of RVB, the Simtroopers are like normal humans that fight semi normal. While the Freelancers are like superhuman that would move faster and stronger than an normal person.
Or a generation of MJOLNIR armor that’s cost effective enough to make expanding its use to the wider military feasible
yeah this was my thought, it's like putting a V8 engine in a little car, attaching is to a small car gear box and throttling the V8 down in power as to not break the small gear box, it's incredibly cost ineffective and plain stupid
sorry if this goes over non car enthusiasts heads
The suit isn't what makes them a Spartan. A Spartan without their armor is still a Spartan. The MJOLNIR is an enhancement, the Spartan's mind is the weapon. So saying that anyone being able to wear a Gen 3 would make them a Spartan is false. Sure, it would enhance a normal human, but to nowhere near the levels of any Spartan.
Why not everyone gets a suit of armor is because these are massively expensive, which still makes sense in the lore, for them to be able to scale power levels per user, but they still can't afford to give every single person a set of MJOLNIR armor.
It's like space marines. They're space marines with or without the armor, and sometimes the powered armor gets in the way or is weaker than the actual space marine inside. Now, a space marine equipped with a Mjolnir suit spec'd for their body.... Sweet babies, that's more dangerous than a batman who can actually turn his head 😂
So while the sentiment is nice, the practicality is lacking. Technology doesn't evolve in this way. Realistically, Spartan IVs should be simultaneously cheaper and superior to Spartan IIs in every single way. Modern plate carriers, optics, and personal drones are a great analog. One modern Marine is worth 10 in 2005, at least technologically. A Marine is a Marine at the end of the day. If he doesn't like you, you go away. Period. But nice ordinance helps.
The X-factor of child abduction and subsequent indoctrination and conditioning should have been sidelined by the development of AI. Curiously, AI in Halo lore, whether it was intentional or not, has roughly the same longevity of a soldier or Marine in reality. The implication there is that the indoctrination of the Spartan II is replaced by the assistance of cheaply produced and disposable AI. There's your "Spartan brain."
However, the idea of the "Spartan mind" becomes problematic in the face of trauma bonding techniques utilized by, for example, the US Navy SEALs. It's evident that childhood isn't required to produce lethally efficient psychologically conditioned killers. Spartan IVs don't fall out of the sky. They're no different, at least at the base level, than MARSOC, SAS, SEALs, SWIC, or whomever else you want to compare them to. Meanwhile, each of those organizations are horrifyingly efficient, and the psycho-conditioning required to produce them takes less than a year. The mind can be broken and rebuilt very quickly. Marines are Marines for a reason. They will never be anything less than a Marine ever again because they have been mentally reconstructed. Marines don't struggle to dispatch child soldiers, nor child soldiers who have managed to survive into adulthood. Either way, Marines will make the grass grow. And no one took a Marine out of daycare and replaced them with a ValueBrand clone. That's just their thing.
Training is training. Technological development is technological development. Iwo Jima is a great example. With the assistance of the USMCA and probably no more than 20 tomahawk missiles from a cruiser, a lone Marine regiment would annihilate 1940's Japanese troops in no more than two or three days. Maybe quicker, because the Japanese could no longer hide in the dark, and the military loves night shift. And then the Marines would be bored, so Okinawa would really be a party.
My point is, ordinance will always outpace the warrior. That's simply the name of the game. Because humans are toolmakers. You make a better helmet, and I'll make a better axe. And real quick, too.
So the idea that the Spartan IVs are inferior to their predecessors is simply a lore point. It's a shoulder rub. A modern SEAL would tear an SAS operator from the 40s in half. And then everyone would be upset because their nostalgia took a blow.
It is what it is.
@@austinguthrie5528 An Astartes in Mjolnir would be a downgrade.
Autism has entered the chat.
@RebelInTheF.D.G if you take what a Mjolnir can do, and spec it correctly to an astartes anatomy, its systems are actually way more advanced than imperial power armor. Installation has some amazing breakdowns of the system. Combine the armor with ceramite and you got armor that'll laugh at a scarab's excavation beam, and a very happy Astates who can actually lift his arms above his head.
And it's only slightly autism, sir! Lol
@austinguthrie5528 No. That is cheating. You don't get to say "combine ceramite with Mjolnir." First and foremost, that is tech-heresy. Who sanctioned that? They're in deep shit, whether it works or not.
The magnificently unquestionable gifts of our beloved God-Emperor are quite the works of techno-art, whether you like it or not. The specs are, dare I say, fucking insane.
For example, were an Astartes to smack you upside the head right now, based on the armor specs of standard Mk. IV, the majority of your upper torso would liquefy.
And, of course, the classic addition to the intro of this debate; there's not a damn thing in the UNSC's arsenal short of the Spartan Laser that can drop an Astartes, and even that's a point of debate.
Let the games begin.
I mean, I could totally see Gen III as the beginning of the process of standardizing humanity's military on power armor. If they can get the costs down either through advances in engineering or economy of scale, that would be a major boost to the Infantry.
They could do that with SPI right now
to start.
Well in lore the only reason the Mjolnir armor is so expensive in the first place is because of the Knitted-crystal computer memory layer which that alone makes up 80% of the armor’s cost and the only thing it does is allow the armor to house an AI easier which not every soldier needs an AI since especially since they already fight without an AI and a few other things could be removed too like the pressure seal, the moisture absorption layer, the hydrostatic gel layer, and memory processor superconducting layer, because most of this stuff won’t be used by the average soldier or they don’t really need it which could help in cutting costs
@@thegaminengine1141 No the thing that made it so expensive was the amorphous strength amplifying crystal layer. It had nothing to do with the ability to carry an AI. And if that was the case GEN 3 should be just as expensive because it can also house an AI.
@@stubbornspaceman7201 Okay, search Mjolnir armor in whatever search engine you use, click on the link to ‘Halopedia’, then go to armor components and scroll down to ‘knitted crystal computer memory layer’ and read that section, there is a sentence in there that says ‘This type of memory is most often seen on ships and represents 80% of the cost of the suit’
@@stubbornspaceman7201 No, the piezoelectric liquid metal crystal layer was the most hazardous to make and probably the most difficult to make but it wasn’t the most expensive, the knitted-crystal computer memory layer was the most expensive because it had to be able to house information for an AI just like a regular UNSC onboard ship AI which would’ve been way harder to make than a force amplification material that only amplified the strength of the user by a multiple of 2, it says so on Halopedia
Just because any marine could wear the suit doesn't mean that the UNSC would waste it on an un-augmented solder that hadn't been specially trained on it. It's wasted potential.
Not to mention the Impossibity of outfitting every soldier with an incredibly expensive suit. Like each suit is more expensive than an entire ship
@@TheCrunchbiteyet 343 is making it as if everyone is capable of making it in a garage etc.
yeah, I mean every human can pilot an F22 raptor, but not every military member is allowed to fly them
there are no regular non enhanced soldiers/marines that ever wore mjolnir
@@nomercyinc6783 wrong, there was one, but he died. That is, in the course of testing it.
limiting the output to human safe levels turn mjolnier from a war machine into a fun way to move a war machine from one corner of an armory to another. basically yes you got the passive protective systems but the amplification is limited to just under weight neutral
and I wonder if the power level safe for a normal human would even be enough to move the suit, I meant it is 1000lbs of armored suit, the average person can reasonably carry 60lbs on their back consistently so unless the scaling is 15x normal (best case) then the person still wouldn't be able to move it and could potentially be crushed under the weight or at least trapped in the suit
If I remember correctly in Halseys journal the strength amplification is largely due to using a piezoelectric material that is in the undersuit that exists in a liquid/crystaline state. It may be that early iterations of MJOLNIR used largely the same type of PZ-material and that it had a set value for how much it would amplify force based simply on the materials composition. It could be that a new PZ-material was developed for later suits that may allow the pizoelectric properties of the material to vary based on certain aspects from something as simple as the users movements (ie faster initial movement would result in greater amplification) or perhaps via the neural interface that spartans have
The problem is that if SIV were as effective as S2s by just using newer armor it would make them super OP fighting force. However for story reason that could never happen making them and at the same time S2’s weaker than before.
Even if we ignore the augmentations, S2’s had better genes and training making them much better soldiers. I think we can all agree that.
But yeah this inconsitency on how SIVs have been presented is a big problem though.
It’s not just that. The Spartan II augmentations were far more extensive, with far more invasive procedures. Spartan IVs effectively just have more stable, less powerful augmentations and their armor is meant to bridge that gap. The Spartan IIs that wear Gen 3 should all be stronger than they ever were in their original armors.
@@Nara.ShikamaruI mean I’ve assumed they are. But yeah it is annoying how they have tried to make S4s just as effective as S2’s and that is not necessary at all. They are way too mass produceable to be like that.
@@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820Which is why I like how they're portrayed in Gen 3, where it takes a whole squad of 4s to do a job that a single 2 could pull off, at least as far as I've seen. Across the Campaign for example the 4s put up a good fight, but they all fall in the end.
@@Espartanica Very fair. I would also love Blue Team to make a comeback to the games but with true herculean feats like Linda making impossible shots and Kelly showing her true speed.
I have a dumb answer: normal humans can, but Mjolnir is expensive, so it's a waste of money to put a regular cannon fodder soldier in them.
Right, but also wrong. a regular human trying to wear Mjolnir would rip themselves apart, the can technically wear it, it just would destroy their body anytime they try to move.
@@heroicdairy You didnt SEE the video? Hea clearly refering at the statment that gen3 can augment linearly, so it's not a bone crushing aceleration, and force movement that the gen1-2 do
@@portrannavi I was not referring to gen3 my friend, I was referring to pre-343 Mjolnir ie gen 1-2. Once bungie left Halo ended, ergo gen 3 is fanfiction.
or another stupidly simple answer, the suits power level that is safe for normal humans isn't powerful enough to move the suit, it's 1000lbs so I also believe that
GEN3 platforms being able to completely take over for the wearer like an Iron Man suit also brings up the question of what the point of the augmentations are in the first place.
In case the Spartan is without the suit maybe??? So they can still be a force to be reckoned with.
I think it's more a culture issue than a practical one. In the Halo universe, a lot of stuff that AIs could handle much more efficiently than humans are still handled by humans. The UNSC has an aversion towards allowing AIs to have much autonomy and prefers them in backup and support and advisory roles though they do still let them control ships and weaponry in some cases.
even if the suit could be safely worn by a marine, would the safe power level for them even be able to move the suit? I mean it canonically weighs in the range of 1000lbs and the average person struggles with carrying their own body weight
Short answer: to make the suit more powerful and the suit, in turn, makes the wearer more powerful. The answer is in the word, itself: _augmentation._
@@samc9133 Considering what happen in Halo 5 its not foolish of them to be averse to giving them too much of a role in everything.
I would say it doesn't scale low enough for regular humans to use because there are inefficiencies at that low operating level. Similar to how computer power supplies operate more efficiently when in their ideal workload range. While the GEN3 could in theory be used by a normal human, it would essentially have to disable all force assist and would essentially just be a EVA capable bulletproof suit.
There's also the matter of the upgraded neural interface required for proper operation of the suit
I just thought that the safe power level for a marine simply couldn't move the weight of MJOLNIR, since it is 1000lbs canonically, they'd just be trapped in the suit unable to move until let out by a technician or crushed under the weight (you decide what you like more)
It would be interesting if they just had different suits for spartan IIs and IVs. They could write it in assuming it hasnt been writtin into a corner
I agree, UNSC made variants of the standard issue weapons for Spartans, for example the magnum with the longer handle, why couldn't they make different versions of the GEN3 armor for Spartan II/III and IV? Not to mention how pretty much every named Spartan character wears a unique version of either generation of Mjolnir.
They do. The few remaining Spartan-2s have their own set of MJOLNIR, which is much more bulky than the standard Gen 3 armor. It's just that there's so few 2s and 3s left that there's no point making a whole new subset of armor just for them, and so they just get Halsey's personally modified suits for Gen 3 instead. At the very least, Chief's suit was Halsey's custom work.
@@Espartanica
So they DO have a specific subset of armor, just that Halsey does it for them.
@@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy Yeah. The Spartan-2s wear Mark 6, Gen 3, while Spartan-4s wear Mark 7, Gen 3 instead.
@@East_Coast_Toasty_BoyThat matches with how Halsey does armor in general... IIRC she never cared for the Mk system of classification and all of her pieces were essentially "made to order," all very custom stuff. I can't recall where she comments about this. One of the books I think. Possibly her journal.
GEN3 has got to be my favorite armor in the entire lore, especially the Mark VII goes hard
I still prefer the Commando armour from Reach, the GEN3 version looks too new and unfinished to me.
My solution to this problem would be to say that yes anyone can use the armor but only Spartan's can use them unharmed. The armor is capable of scaling its speed and power output but not perfectly so even if a marine used MJOLNIR armor they would be crippled or very seriously injured after using it for a set duration or longer, making it non viable for wide adoption and still exclusive for Spartan's. Also because the armor is still to powerful for a normal human it would be painful for a normal solider to use however it no longer would kill them immediately making it overall not worth it for a marine to use even in desperate times at least for most cases.
Edit: another point I think worth making is that all Spartans are much larger than normal humans and considering the price involved I doubt there would ever be one that would fit a normal human.
So basically the exact same reason why a normal human can’t wear the Mjolnir armor just slightly diluted
@@thegaminengine1141 pretty much.
In my the head canon, GEN3 comes in three forms that share commonality to save costs and be modular:
GEN 3 II: Spartan II variant specifically for the remaining Spartan II’s, the one we see John wear
GEN 3 III: for use by the remaining Spartan IIIs
GEN 3 IV: for sure by the Spartan IVs
I think this mostly make sense considering how realistically, the UNSC would want to maximize their Spartans strengths and minimize their weaknesses while also creating a platform that’s the ultimate culmination of the GEN1 and GEN2
Mjolnir gen3 is still a deadly power armor
You wouldnt get access to it unless you deserved it, hence why normal humans wouldnt have permission to use it
Armors are custom fit, making a large scale production would be too costly, specially with how manu unagumented personel the UNSC has
Better stick with the reliable than the emergency tools
To answer it in short. The GEN3 Platform has the armor of The GEN1 but the undersuit of the GEN2. This allows the armor to fit all three of the Spartan Types without the worry of of a Spartan-IV getting hurt, you can clearly see that it's just the GEN2 Undersuit just with a more GEN1 look to it and colored black. Keep in mind, this is just my theory.
Congratulations, your theory is now canon to me.
@@Neoth40k Thank you, plus it does make sense and of course the next step for Spartan Armor would be for it to fit all Spartans
Are you talking about the tech suit or the under armor and movement/force amplifying system??? Because it you're talking about the movement or force amplifying system, you're wrong. GEN 3 goes back to the liquid-crystal layer operated by thoughts like the GEN 1.
@@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy Yes, but it's mixed with Gen2 so that way Spartan-IV's can also wear it.
@@zombiekillo61704
It's mixed with GEN2 in general tech, which is just Mk VII GEN 1 upgrades. Doesn't nerf themselves just to cater to 4s.
I feel like, even if the spartan four's augmentations weren't as strong as the two previous classes of spartans, they still could have been *enough* to withstand mjolnir armor.
Speaking as a Lab Manager, every measure of unused potential is waste. Ideally, all of my hardware would be running 24/7, save maintenance and calibration time.
The most likely scenario is that the UNSC has figured out how to more effectively govern the suit's reactions, and so the suit can "scale down" to the wearer; but a normal human wearing GEN3 could not run as fast, hit as hard, or react as quickly as a SIV, let alone an SII or an SIII. Sort of the same limitations on fighter planes: the system itself can sustain _way_ more G-force than the squishy human guiding it. Thus, to get the most out of MJOLNIR, you need a stronger wearer, else you're "leaving money on the table." And when the armor costs enough to make a starship, you'd best believe they want the best bang for their buck, especially considering the suits need to be tailor-shaped to each user.
Alternate theory: I also wouldn't put it past the manufacturer(s) to design each suit system to best reflect the capacity of the intended wearer, but have them all under the GEN3 umbrella. If he's not as resiliant, why waste materials giving the suit power output he can't use? Be like using a Formula 1 racer to pop over to the local for a pint, and having a 30KPH speed limit strictly enforced. Better to build a Honda, for that scenario.
NOTE: that doesn't mean I _like_ the implications of this lore, but it's the only way I can square the circle.
Ok, several things:
1. The SPARTAN IIIs did not have the augmentations necessary to wear gen 1 Mjolnir. Noble Team’s SPARTAN III members recieved additional augmentations, on top of the ones they already had, to be able to wear Mjolnir armor. They are the exception, not the rule.
2. The suit doesnt make the Spartan. The augmentations and training makes the Spartan. The suit is just a tool. Think of it this way, you can give literally anyone an automatic rifle, and they’ll be able to use it, but a regular guy you found on the street and gave an automatic rifle would still lose a firefight with a professional soldier.
3. With regards to the Shadows of Reach bit, with the Master Chief using his suit to effectively take over for a wounded leg specifically…I dont think that’s something the suit was designed to be able to do. Mjolnir armor is designed to enhance the wearer’s strength and speed, and that’s the key part - it requires a wearer to act in order to do anything. The armor won’t move an arm if there isn’t someone wearing it trying to move their arm.
I honestly think Master Chief doing what he did is more a matter of his experience with the Mjolnir platform, being a SPARTAN II. I mean, he’s been using Mjolnir armor since he was 15 at least, and he’s 49 years old at the time of the Halo Infinite campaign - he’s been using Mjolnir for 30+ years, whereas the SPARTAN-IVs haven’t used it for more than 7-8 years at most. Chief would most certainly know some tricks to get more out of the armor than a SPARTAN-IV would, even if the IVs were augmented to the extent that the IIs were.
Would like you to do a video on the idea that "Spartan 5s" could be children born from fully augmented Spartan 4 Parents who inherit the augmentations of the 4s and then go on to receive further augmentations from either previous generations of spartans or brand new augmentations entirely.
Or, could you expand on there being something out there more powerful than a spartan that you implied in your Rakshasa breakdown?
Mjolnir armor is still exceedingly expensive per unit, which means that even if a GEN3 suit can scale down its movement systems enough for an unaugmented human to safely wear it, their lower baseline strength and speed means they're not going to get anywhere near as much out of it as even the relatively lightly augmented SIVs, which is very much not going to justify the expense of a suit of Mjolnir armor made for normal human measurements.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if, should the Halo setting flash forward a few decades or so, GEN3, along with SPI, is at the start of a developmental branch that results in (relatively) low cost, but still energy shielded and mildly strength multiplying power armor intended for the rank and file human soldier.
Hi, i think its rather easy to explain, think of a gen 3 platform as a newly released game, it will always have minimal specs, so a mjolnir armor could also have minimum requirements for the wearer, as for scaling it is done with some type of ai algorithm so it will always have te right output also some algorithms have a minimum amount of input for it to work properly so a normal human could be resulting in have not enough input to use the armor but a gen 4 or a gen 2 could result in different results toward their own specific performances.
I feel like the best explanation for this would be to equate it to fly by wire controls that are in fighter jets. Computers calculate thousands to millions of micromanaged adjustments to significantly boost the performance of a jet. But the level of training and inherent ability of the user is what truly makes a difference in performance and capability from there. If you took a commercial or civilian pilot and strapped them in to a fighter pilot and made them dog fight against experienced veterans familiar with their platforms they’re going to get wiped. Take into account SF units from there and you can make a tiered list of performance based off ability and inherent talent.
The only way I can think of making it work is that Halsey helped to improve on the S4 augmentations beyond what was already there. The nice thing about the 4's is that in theory they can keep adding to their augmentations if they can find a way to do it better.
Like most pieces of technology, I am sure it is scaleable to the wearer's abilities, but with that scaleablility comes a reduction in power and efficiency. Take some of our Aircraft for example (I am a Technician for the UH-60 platform for the army), the Blackhawk can be flown with only a single engine if necessary, but it is limited in its function and capabilties and much better runs with both engines. A similiar phenomenon could be present in Gen III Mjiolnir, wherein yes, the suit actively bioscans the pilot and adjusts power settings accordingly (hell, they could even be adjustable mid-battle by AI tech, as is heavily implied) but on an Unaugmented human the suit acts as an armored body suit rather than Powered Assault armor. Like the difference between the Power armor worn by say, the Sisters of Battle in WH40k vs the space marine power armor. Extremely similar in design and function, but the pilot of the suit can actually fully utilize the armor to its full capability
The first time John wore the suit he saluted dr. Halsey. Its stated that only because of his augmentations his wrist was bruised and not shattered.
The spartans needed to learn to control their movements because the suit was so darn powerful.
Would it be potentially a limitation of how far the materials and processes at work within the suit just cant scale down far enough for Baseline humans, neccessitating the weaker augmentations still?
If nothing else it would seem the neural augments would be required no matter what, simply on the basis of needing the neural lace in the back of the skull to interface with the armor
That's what I was thinking.
My headcannon for the Gen 3 would be that there is a minimum it can scale down to which is still far above what a regular human can withstand, meaning it would still severely harm or kill an unaugmented human, hence the necessity for at least the same augments as the Spartan IVs. This would still be in-line as the armor could then scale up for an S-II or III.
My theory is when a Spartan regardless of class don the gen 3 suit reads their SNI. The SNI once read and determines which class of Spartan is wearing it changes the power scaling from a linear to fractal or vice versa.
A couple of things i want to mention is that the armor given to the 2s was also much heavier than what the 4s are currently wearing on them. Mjiolnir is essentially moved entirely by the users thoughts so it makes sense that the 2s are able to push the suit further cause its based on THEIR reactions and movements. But in general you still cant just slap the Mjionir on anybody cause it would still put too much strain on someones body. You still need some enhancements overall to move and use the armor effectively. The 4s have a certain degree of augmentations on them, i dont know the exact specifications but i do knkw that they basically got the chemically upgraded bones that the spartan 3s got.
only thing i can come up with is that even the bottom end of the power scaling effect in gen 3 is still too much for an unaltered human to withstand, perhaps its running at minimum capacity when being used by the S4's vs the S2's can actually run it at its full potential meaning the S3's are probably somewhere around 75ish% of its capacity? although as i finish writing that idea i thought, "maybe the strength scaling could be used by normal people now but they still need the Spartan's enhanced reactions to control it without hurting themselves like when John snapped a salute and nearly concussed himself (a hit with enough energy it could possibly decapitate an unaltered human in that case)"
@@deathsicon to further add to that, the MK IV were unable to be toned down from the operating standards for the armor. It was full send all the time for the Mk IV platform. Gen 1 was a wild set for how powerfully it could get, compared to Gen 2 and Gen 3.
Gen 3 takes, well, everything that’s been learned from all generations and decades of data. I still can’t see a regular human using the gear, at least not more than once or twice if they are very lucky..
Why can't regular humans wear gen-3? Answer is they can, but why equip a regular grunt with the most sophisticated piece of military equipment? Unless they can make them as cheap as rifles or helmets it really doesn't make economic sense. Also the prestige aspect is there
well, one possibility is that while yes, Gen 3 Mjolnir armor can scale its output to its wearer, there is still a basic requirement for some form of augmentation to safely wear the armor. this should preserve the different classes of Spartans and their abilities. but if a normal unaugmented human were to wear the armor they would still suffer injuries that may or may not be fatal due to the sophistication of the armor.
I agree with chriss590 response is absolutely understandable and it allows me to still feel like a spartan when wearing a newer platform of armor.
also ghost from halo legend wears a Fing mech suit and he was just a marine. lollll
@installation00, it could be that the Spartan-4’s augmentations still exceed the requirements necessary to use Mjolnir but since they give less of a boost than the S-II augmentations, their performance is lower than Spartan-II’s in Gen 3 armor
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the HAZMAT core's lore state that it can be used by unaugmented personnel? I don't know if all of the suits are officially and technically "GEN3" or if GEN3 specifically only refers to Mk VII, but if so, I think there's already precedent for GEN3 being usable by unagumented personnel.
I think the fact that UNSC is being forced to field old Mk V B, Mk IV and Mirage suits or sanction repurposing of suits like HAZMAT and Rakshasa I think speaks to the idea that Mk VII is probably just too expensive, either by money or time-to-produce, for the UNSC to be able to rely on them.
I’m pretty sure there’s a non power armour version of it that normal humans use
they might still need augmentation to operate but the requirements aren't as strict as the the Gen 1. it has been over 30 years since its introduction and technological advancement is to be expected
I think the answer is that Mjolnir has been developed to be better at communicating with the user and interpreting their inputs, giving a greater safety tolerance for use. Gen I kind of brute forced it and moved FOR the wearer, and didn't know how to dial back. It interpreted everything maximally, forcing Spartans to be augmented to keep up. Gen 2 then perhaps saw them figuring out how to make Mjolnir move WITH their wearer. Rather than getting ragdolled about inside it, the armor might be tuned to move on a 1 to 1 basis exactly how the user intends to move and no more. No more snap kicks when you're trying to take a step. No more seizures when you're just wincing in pain. A flinch would be a flinch, and a step would be a step. At the same time, I think it's still prudent to augment; augments would help with both "talking" to the armor and provide a buffer if something was not calibrated correctly. Plus, you still have to worry about what your armor can't defend against.
There are a number of possibilities to why they couldn't scale down the Mjlonir's systems to work for unaugumented humans. Most likely its a combination of bugetary constraints, it being difficult to scale the force for completely unaugumented individuals, and unaugumented humans being not nearily as effective enough in the attenuated suits to warrent the large cost.
It would be like modifying an A-10 Warthog to utalize to use the same stealth tech that the F-22 Raptor uses. It would be prohibitably expensive, and unnecessary for the role that the aircraft fills.
I guess the difference would be something like how an ODST and their equipment differs from a normal marine.
yes, anyone can wear and use ODST equipment, but it'd be overkill to hand out ODST stuff to every marine who might die within just 3 mag dumps.
same with Mjolnir Gen3. a normal marine can get it to move, but it'd be way better to just toss them keys to a Gauss Hog or a Scorpion than let them run around in what essentially is just a tiny bipedal tank.
bimodal set up for universality and maximization of the available resources. they could also have more "under the hood" type differences as well. it's still gen3 armor but the 2s use the MPAAG3A1 and the 4s use the MPAAG3A2 that has the right governors for them in it. so, they are running the same platform (the G3 type) but there are a few swap outs for is using it but not big enough that it would mean parts aren't interchangeable.
A good idea to solve the armor problem is to say that the armor can only be worn by those with a certain level of training and strength that can only be achieved by certain augmentation levels and above
my idea is, gen 3 as it is very modular, has also different variations of the part of the suit that augments the strenght, spartan 2's and 3's are issued the classic one, spartan 4's get issued a gen 2 like one and the non spartan get issued a way more watered down version that is new and doesnt even come close to spartan strenght but still works
The gen 3 suits are basically like a generation of mobile suit from gundam. Techs improved, design improved etc. Gen 3 SIV armor when seen as this is basically the GMII compared to the gundam MKII. The spartan II and III versions are just more premium, higher performance versions. As we can see in their more GENI versions of the techsuit and armor.
Due to what you said the scaling could be tied to a database with the specifications of their augmentations and have the armor tied to that individuals data
I'd like to think that the armour has set pre-sets for the different Spartan classes and can be adjusted accordingly, while non-augmented human will still be killed by wearing the armour
Perhaps there's a lower bound on the effective movement scaling of Gen 3. Or it could be that while scaling could go up and down depending on ability, perhaps SOME nerve augmentation is necessary to use the functions of Gen 3 at all.
I would say (my best guess) would be that scaling technology is never as simple as it seems. There is always an operational windo where scaling seems to work but on the fringes math breaks down at times due to unforseen variables such as matierial properties or power output efficiency. So the IVs are within the current scalling window of operation as well as the IIs being near the top of the operational window. The IVs are obviously inferior physically on comparison to a II but are still a world away from a standard human.
The ultimate strength a suit can give you is determined by the suits structural strength and power regardless of who wears it. Presumably gen 3 has software modulators so the suit doesn’t tear apart the wearer. So unlike Gen 1, a non Spartan could wear it and use it. But the other Spartan modifications as to their speed of thought and reflexes, and how the suit and their body can integrate giving the Spartan to react faster then their muscles can via the suit rating faster … likely that wouldn’t work with a normy in the suit.
So yes everyone could upgrade to the strength, but not speed, agility, enhanced senses, etc of a Spartan II. And obviously the S-2 size would be a big difference in a fight.
A more interesting question is, if humans are a devolved forerunner, and Spartan IIs were somewhat restored back to ancestral abilities. It would be interesting to see what a fully restored human would be like. Say if John and others encounter a anchient system … like a ship that had tested anti flood weapons,and ordered to hide until the war between the civilizations in the galaxy sorted out and someone comes for you. Then John and company finds it, and the ship AI figures it eiather has to self destruct to avoid falling into “enemy hands”, or upgrade John and other Spartan 2s to full ancestral “health”, so it can legitimately classify them as survivors of its civilization. But then you have Spartan IIs improved back to full ancestral physical and mental health … and likely getting upgrades to their armor.
;)
i think the big problem with a civie wearing a mjolnir is that youd have to learn to use it carefully. a Spartan with the augs is able to withstand the fuckups and are trained and enhanced so they and the armor are better able to understand eachother.
in other words, you could get a civilian in a suit, but youd have to turn the response way down and theys have to learn how to actually respond and feel the suit while also running extremely carefully in order to not get crunched.
Gen 1: The suit can ONLY operate at 100%, anyone who is unable to handle the suit at 100% simply cannot use the suit. An obvious design flaw, but considered worth it for the advantages it provides.
Gen 2: Wanting the suit to be more accessible, they give it a different core internal design that could be operated safely easier, at the cost of a much lower maximum effectiveness. Once again, an obviuous flaw, but considered worth it for the advantages it provides.
Gen 3: (speculation) Found a way to scale the original design so now it can be tuned below 100%, allowing it to be used to maximum effectiveness allowed on a per-user basis. Primary flaws removed, primary advantages remain. Essentially perfected design.
Now there are other points to make. First of all, just because the strength can be scaled down does not mean it can be scaled down limitlessly. There may be some point below which the suit stops functioning in some way or another. For argument, there may be some point that below which the suit stops functioning in some way or another, let's just say it can only go as low as 50% (something something not enough current flowing through the suit causes the artifical muscles to sieze up). That would still cause it to be dangerous or deadly to unaugmented people, or at the very least mean they couldn't move it at all.
Second, as each suit of mjolnir is a highly expensive and highly customized item, it stands to reason that each suit could have its strength tweaked or limited per user (as opposed to broader gorupings like per spartan generation), effectively meaning that each suit has a different '100%' that aligns with whoever the individual sparts own fleshy bodies 100%, this may mean you could give a suit to a normal person, but they would basically be able to operate it at, gneroiously, 10%. At which point, it is cheaper and more effective to just carry any extra gear around on a warthog instead of trying to super strength carry all your extra ammo.
Third, mjolnir is a highly expensive, highly secret piece of technology. You don't give it to someone unless you can trust them to A, use it cost-effectively, and B, not give it up to enemy forces easily. Both of which are traits you would hope the average marine has, but you KNOW the average spartan has.
All this is to say that there are most definitely ways this iscrepancy can be explained away in a satisfactory way, Gen 3 is supposed to be more easily accessible; yes, it is more advanced and it shows, but that doesn't mean it has become usable by everyone, it is very much possible for the lore to state that civilians in Gen 3 still end up getting crushed.
This. I like. Advances in technology would make this possible, allowing scaling to an individual case by case.
There are certainly interesting points here and although technically I was going to comment on how these types of peculiarities are more the product of a fantastic context within the franchise, there are certainly details of the armor that could be better explained in the future, interesting video really.
I think the idea of expanding MJOLNIR into something that any human can use makes sense from an in universe stance. Even if a non Spartan human in MJOLNIR wouldn’t be as strong or fast as a Spartan in MJOLNIR, the increase to their physical capabilities as well as the increased defenses from armor and shields would turn any grunt into a lethal killing machine.
That said the cost of MJOLNIR armor is not so cheap that general military use is actually feasible, but as technology progresses and the UNSC continues R&D of new MJOLNIR generations, I could see a future in the Halo Universe where companies of marines go to battle wearing MJOLNIR powered assault armor, led by Spartan augmented officers capable of using MJOLNIR to its fullest extent.
Gen 3 I believe is used by professional athletes according to one of the cores so it stands to reason a strong, healthy individual can use the armour. With advances from reverse engineering Forerunner, Covenant and potentially Ancient Human tech, it would make sense that the precision of the armour's interpretation of the user increases, decreasing injury. As for why not all Marines have it is simply cost. Sports bring in great amounts of money so it would make sense that sports teams could afford less militaristic and technologically advanced models while the UNSC hasn't had a full rollout. It would explain why the ODST are basically gone now, as they're the next best to Spartans, it would only make sense to improve their abilities before widespread use by lesser skilled numbers
My assumption is that the Gen 3 series can be tuned to scale physical input in either a linear, or fractal manner, that would be the simplest explanation. Or perhaps the standard model scales linearly, while they make custom fractal suits for the few remaining Spartan II and III soldiers. But that would also mean that Gen 2 and 3 Spartans would be exponentially stronger than Gen 4, seeing as the tech is more advanced than Gen 1 Mjolnir.
If the scaling can be tuned down far enough for unaugmented individuals to wear it without tearing themselves apart, it still wouldn't make sense for it to be widely issued from a cost perspective unless they make significant cost-cutting changes. But I would expect to see it become the new standard for ODST's, regardless.
The main issue I see with giving Mjolnir to unaugmented individuals is that the armor makes soldiers stronger and tougher, but that's not enough to make it worthwhile. They need augmented reaction speeds to make the cost of the armor worth the expense, otherwise, the soldier's lethality and effectiveness remains largely unchanged. And if they're going to get into augmentations, they might as well get their money's worth and give them the full suite of augmentations.
I often wonder whether it might have worked better lore wise if the S-IV program, was the result of post war necessity, I,E the UNSC didnt want the whole "abducting kids and war orphans" thing to become widely known, and needed a new program of spartans to replace war losses and bring order to the post war chaos. Hence using adult veterans and giving them less augmentations and weaker armour to get a force together quickly. Also, perhaps the spartan 4 armour has newer technology that allows the suit to be worn with less augmentations?
Brother, I really miss the armory videos, id love to see some armory/most detailed breakdown vids❤
I can get behind armor power scaling because technically that is the evolution of human exoskeletons. The forerunners could arm and protect any individual with their suits. Humanity was at a similar level. It just simply takes intensive and sophisticated systems and analysis. Although it will take time and currently the best we have are Spartans. Doesn’t kill the lore. The 4s are watered down 3s that are watered down 2s. The idea that the spartan branch relies more on the suit to bring 4s to standard isn’t a crazy one.
One possible explanation could be this: The nature by which the force amplification is increased or decreased is stepped. Basically every crystal structure is isolated to be able to be used or not used based on desired amplification. But, to get a full range of motion there would still be a minimum number of isolated structures required, which could still be outside safe baseline human use levels of force. Essentially, the armor cannot go so low power as to be safe for a baseliner to use.
Couple that with the non-trivial cost of MJOLNIR and you've got an armor system that is still not applicable to normal humans.
Thanks for continuing to make such awesome videos, you're one of my favorite halo channels
One thing that wasn't mentioned is that the Spartan IVs had access to a new form of armor that the Spartan IIs did not, plot armor
First, I think there is a third explanation, that Gen3 armor is fitted for the class, not automatically scaled through the armor when worn. I am still reading Shadows of Reach, so maybe its details later explain my theory wrong, but thats what i assumed all along.
also...
Bring back the 2's as 2.5's or 2.1's, and do so through some ONI secret program.
In the future I see the future human stellar hegemon having clone trooper Spartans raised from childhood till early adulthood, augmented, and given armor like Mjolnir.
MJOLNIR's original operation exclusivity has always been a glaring issue in the lore. The feedback loop that ended the first test operator is more indicative of bad software calibration than overpowering hardware, and therefore a relatively simple fix so anyone could operate a MJOLNIR suit. The much more significant reasons why MJOLNIR are not general issue for infantry is that of expense and operator capability. If I remember right, a MJOLNIR suit when they were first deployed cost somewhere in the same bracket as a frigate, making it a rather steep waste of resources if given to someone who could not use the suit to it's full capabilities. A SPARTAN-II on the other hand did have the physical durability and mental/neural capacity to use MJOLNIR near it's peak output.
To use modern comparison, a SPARTAN-II is like a fighter pilot who has been trained to withstand the strain of 7 to 9 G maneuvers, and given a platform like the F-22 to fly. An unaugmented soldier, on the other hand, would be like a student pilot, unable to withstand the g-forces of extreme maneuvers, let alone know how to execute them. You wouldn't put someone who just started flight school into one of the highest performing platforms right out of the gate.
What I love the most about the subsequent generations of Spartans is that ALL of the ones we’ve seen interact with Chief whether in Halo 5, the logs of Halo Infinite, or in the books, they all treat him with huge amounts of respect. Even Locke who is a Lieutenant Commander calls Chief “sir”. Fred who is a Lieutenant, lets Chief command blue team when Chief is back on the team in H5 and in Shadows of Reach.
Mjolnir slowly becoming standard issue would make sence. give the most advanced models to the spartans and the standard models to marines
I have two thoughts on this:
1. Spartan 4 may have received newer augmentations that brought them up to the minimum to handle gen 3
2. Or Gen 3 has a base line that it can not go under in terms of power otherwise it is essentially useless, that would still mean that S4s would still have to meet the minimum bit would also explain why normal people can't use gen 3.
It seems like if the Gen 3 suit was depowered enough for a normal Marine to wear it, it would be slightly better than ODST armor sets but costing way more and being severely underutilized.
I can see ONI wanting one suit for all the Spartans as mass production is cheaper than designing a different armor set for each class of Spartan. But not to the scale it is feasible to equip the whole Marine Corp and the Army in them. Better to give them a less powerful suit.
I actually wonder if in regards to the different augmentations of each spartan generation. If this means that Gen 3 Mk VI is more exclusive to the remaining Spartan IIs. I've noticed multiplayer/gameplay wise there is an implication of how despite the other mk variants being available to spartan IVs through the gen 3 plat form. It still seems to be a more cosmetic change by the companies that develop them. Speaking of companies I think that factor might play into what Spartan armor cores could potentially be exclusive to the actual augemented spartans or unaugmented personnel.
343 is making sure to kill every single aspect of what makes Halo Halo... *Halo 2 Unforgotten music plays*
I think it would be really fun to hear your thoughts on a Spartan supersoldier equivalent in the modern day. How they would stack up against the average soldier, whether top-of-the-line battle kits would be able to provide any substantial protection against them, that sort of thing. We can leave out the energy shields since they're a sci-fi function of gameplay at present-though an active camo analog is supposedly within twenty years of being setup practical on an individual basis-but how the neuromuscular, skeletal and cardiopulmonary enhancements would affect said individuals in a present-day combat situation.
In my opinion, the Spartan-IVs are not entirely useless when it comes to wearing the Gen 2 powered assault armor.
All of the Spartan Generations are great in their own special way and A LOT of other Halo players just don't see the big picture behind the Spartan-IV candidates.
Do they do their job? Yes.
Do they fight what's worth fighting for? Absolutely.
Either way, I still think the Spartan-IVs, including the best of them (Fireteam Osiris), deserve to wear their Gen 2 armors in *Halo 5: Guardians* and *Halo: Infinite.* ❤️👍🏻
I feel like it's more of the armor having more space for software allowing for more customization in the exact specifics.
Anyone who wants to use a mjolnir armor would need a neural implant which is an augmentation in it's own right. Further, for mjolnir to regulate it's output, it needs to know what class spartan is wearing the armor. The neural implant could have code within it to tell mjolnir what spartan class it belongs to. And so, if someone dons mjolnir without a neural implant, or with one that doesn't communicate a spartan class, it simply won't start up cause it has no existing calibration for that person.
Plenty to think about for my version for a different Halo timeline.
Thank you for doing a video on this, it had me really confused when I heard about this…
Also I love as much as you found somewhat of a reason it stillll sounds like “343 magic” as I call it lol
Even if normal people can wear it as a military leader considering the armor is what made the spartan 2s so expensive i wouldnt be giving mjolnir to anyone unaugmented to use the force amp
I'm actually more of a fan of everyone eventually becoming a Spartan. It would basically just be humanity's return to their ancient form. It needs to be later on in the timeline tho, after humanity has rightfully claimed the Mantle of Responsibility and Chief's story is over. As for now, I guess automatic power scaling is the best explanation.
Unless we are a special case, spartans with gen 3 setups probably tend to have a AI that has executive control over the armors systems and a armor technician would probably go over how to set their gear up during training and introduction, I assume if the settings could be set low enough an unaugmented human could use the armor similar to the odst nightfall exosuit. but if I remember correctly the spartan 4s were skilled marines and odsts given light augmentation to compliment their fine training. (I don't remember where I saw it but didn't gen 1 cost more than some unsc ships?) Augmentation combined with the cost of the gear especially after building the infinity likely means it would cost far too much and lack enough benefit to allow an unaugmented soldier to access the armor unless it wasn't being used in the first place. If the unsc could afford it they'd probably have kept making the mk I yggdrasil used by imaginary Johnson and Ghost.
It is of my belief, that IVs are limited in their output when wearing a GEN1 suit. The Fractal scaling puts them above normal humans but below the IIs and IIIs. I'll hold Buck's line of them being "demigods" as meaning they are weaker, but still a few leagues above baseline human. The Liquid niobicene does not grant the IVs 5x, it gives them 2x, because of their augmentations. Basically.
Okay, let's take a look at it this way: using real military standards and building off that (with some interpretations based on Halo's setting) it would take at least 4 months for a UNSC marine to undergo basic training. Real US Marines go through 4 months of boot camp now broken down into basic drill and discipline standards, basic field skills (land navigation and such) and marksmanship training, core classroom training and the crucible, and finally the last month to familiarize the new marines on life in the fleet so that they know how to act like a marine and not a recruit. During this time a chunk of the recruits will typically not make it through, either due to injury or because they simply don't want to be there anymore and quit. We can probably add a 5th month somewhere in there to train recruits on field skills on other worlds or on ships, considering Halo's setting. This is just for boot camp. After this, real US marines go through infantry training which can be a one or two month course depending on if said marine signed a combat arms contract or basically anything else. THEN they go through training in their specific operational specialty if they are not infantry which can last from a couple weeks to about a year depending on their job. We can easily assume UNSC marines go through something similar, if not longer to further train them on operations in space or on ship.
Now let's take a look at special operations. A real special operator would typically go through something similar as above regardless of branch, arguably the harder part is qualifying to sign such a contract in the first place. Assuming they do, they would have to go through AT LEAST a year of training. This would include assessment and selection followed by a qualification course. Using the US Army special forces as an example, the whole training pipeline can last up to 95 weeks. Should a trainee sustain an injury, they could even be sent back to day 1 to do it all again. So looking at something like the ODSTs, we could easily expect something similar if not more grueling. So, assuming ODSTs have a training pipeline that lasts at least 21+ months, during which one could easily sustain an injury or even lose their life, you can probably expect training for Spartans in Halo to be FAR worse. Anyone that makes it through all of that AND survives getting augmented to the point where they are basically physically and mentally perma-juiced with few to no detrimental effects to their physiology or psychology, I'd say they've earned their armor. Are they on the same level of augmentation as the Spartan IIs? Hell no. But they still earned the right to call themselves Spartans through sweat and blood, and having the mental and physical fortitude to go through something like that is what should allow them the right to stand alongside the IIs and IIIs as equals.
I love the content you put out, but maybe try to look at things from other perspectives. Saying something to the effect of "the IVs using new gear that makes them better makes the Spartans as a whole not special anymore" just kinda doesn't sit well with me. Maybe I'm going overboard with this. Halo's Spartans were something I used to look up to as a kid, and even if the IVs aren't the same as the IIs, I still think of them as logical and, at least in some cases, worthy successors to the IIs and IIIs. It seems I'm rambling now so I'll finish up with this. Again, I enjoy your content and I don't want you going away, I just thought I'd put my two cents in here since all this is what really interests me (even though I now realize it was a little more than two cents lol).
To me, it makes sense that normal humans wouldn't be armed in Gen 3. Even IF they can wear it, and that's an if, they wouldn't be anywhere near as great as a Sparin-IV, III, or II. Even with the same gear, they won't have the training, augmentations, and integration to make proper use of said armour. It would be ridiculously expensive too, for only a moderate increase in capabilities. Money spent arming two hundred average soldiers to make them above average could instead be spent on augment twenty of them to become the very best, then give them the same armour and have them become walking gods of war. Those twenty soldiers will outweigh the two hundred in most cases except force projection, which is not on the UNSC's radar at this moment.
Maybe the reason that baseline humans can't use Gen 3 is because of the difference between UNSC standard issue neural interface and spartan grade neural interfaces. Probably something to do with the reaction time increase, making it possible maybe?
Let’s just assume the only prerequisite is that you’re augmented for gen III to not kill you for sneezing. Considering how marines still melt like butter in the sun.
I think it's a combination of several possible factors of which I can describe a few. This is gonna be a long one so buckle up.
1. Humanity's power armor technology has advanced to the point where current suits (Gen 3) can greatly adapt to the user's physiology. A Spartan from any generation can reap the benefits of the platform, with varying degrees of strength and speed gains.
2. The armor's force & speed amplification factors can be scaled down *just enough* to accommodate a baseline Spartan IV, but no lower. There's a minimum threshold of resilience & reaction time the wearer needs to meet to be able to safely use the armor. But the ceiling of force & speed amplification gains is very high for Gen 3, so Spartan IIs and IIIs will be able to output a higher degree of raw strength and speed than Spartan IVs. The ceiling of Gen 3's maximum strength & speed amplification would he so high that the cutoff would likely be more of a built-in safety feature rather than an operational limit of the suit itself- or it may not have an upper limit at all, only a minimum user augmentation requirement. So a Spartan IV would need to meet a minimum prerequisite of strength and reaction time to safely utilize Gen 3 (much like Gen 1+2) but the strongest & fastest Spartan II could utilize the suit to it's greatest potential without diminishing gains. So for example: If an un-armored Spartan II is 30% stronger & faster than an un-armored Spartan IV, a Gen 3-clad Spartan II would likewise be 30% stronger & faster than a Gen 3-clad Spartan IV. But it would still be dangerous or even fatal for an un-augmented human to use Gen 3 Mjolnir. There's also the possibility (though there's no direct evidence for it) that the Spartan IVs received additional augmentations later in the programs operational history to further enhance their capabilities, perhaps to edge them closer to the levels of the previous Spartan generations. This would make it easier for them to utilize a Mjolnir platform that demands a specific level of bone+muscle strength & reaction time higher than that of an un-augmented soldier. These are all purely speculative but I think they're the most plausible explanations in the absence of clarification from 343.
I think that Gen 3 is wearable by any human being that is why there are appearing banished and not USNC nor ONI pieces of armor. Bounty hunters and mercenaries are beginning to use Gen 3 armor with or without illegal augmentations but that doesn’t make them Spartans. Spartans are made from their career, training, intelligence and bravery. Not just because of the armor. Armor can decay and be destroyed but SPARTANS never die!
343 didn't think about it. There was a loud group of players who wanted a new suit and got a new suit
I'm pretty sure that 343 could say that there are multiple variations of the mkvi gen 3 armor, each one designed for certain classes of spartan strenghts. Or the armor could be designed to become user based, and adjust its internal components to its user's abilities through the use of the nanomachines that were able to change up the armor from h3 to h4
I think it could be interesting to see a further refinement to the S-IV augmentations to bridge the gap in power scaling. Maybe the IV's that prove themselves or have similar genetic markers to the S-II candidates?
The stages of the Spartan program is realistic in the idea. It is like the volunteer Spartan 4 program was a quantity over quality. While also a PR move with the leaking of the origins of the Spartan 2 program and the Spartan 3s. The unethical kidnappings of children to be forced into a child super soldier program being out shadowed with everyone can be a "spartan" with a factory roll out of a 'cost effective' mass roll out of average joes turned into augmented forces.
The development of the Gen 3 armor program speaks to me as ONI fuckery not liking the idea of their tools (the spartan programs 2 and 3) becoming more publically informed on their creation and losing control of said tools to the common knowledge. Gen 3 tells me its ONI's attempt to make their own force multiplier without needing to augment mass amounts of people or risking their own bodies to a "maybe" to use Gen 2 systems. Gen 3 was intended to be an answer for 'you and what army' to the most paranoid of ONI leadership.
I am sure there are human purists in ONI that think hate the idea of augmented people. Wanting to never take the surgeries and lose their humanity but wanting to be stronger or at least just as strong as the augmented. Would bet on the idea someone is working on a 3.5 or gen 4, in that madness to keep control and make sure they stay in a place of power.
So two things I can think of going on, the new Gen 3 suits are designed around spartan 2s and 3s in design OR, there is a secret side to the current augmentations for the spartan 4s that is unreleased info that is a possible improvement on previous generations of spartans without the knowledge of even the willing hosts (albeit they are the "weakest generation of spartans," Halsey in lore designated only one spartan 4 as most likely to be hyper lethal vector and he was the leader of team crimson who our spartan 4s in Halo 4 were supposed to serve under or act as.)
It does make some sense the UNSC would begin the process of trying to make Mjolnir less of a specialized suit while improving capabilities. Gen 3 seems to be the beginnings of this, and Gen 4 would likely be initial standardization with cost reductions. Any military would love to bring sufficiently advanced tech be standardized, and I think we're seeing the beginnings of this.
Reading the books it feels like the 4s are alot stronger than we give them credit sure they arent like the 2s or 3s but they are still powerful some of the amazing things theyve done in the books is crazy when you look at the fact they are all volunteers imo i also like to think that some of the 4s wanted to become spartans because of the 2s and 3s and want to live up to the name not like the majority of the ones we see from 4 or 5 and honest it was really kool to see Buck become a spartan
A few of the 4s are up there. Like Buck. Then theres the one in Infinite that killed a room full or Banished with a screwdriver before dying.
the only reason that regular humans cant wear the gen 3 platform is that it costs as much as a starship. so having it as standard gear isn't feasible.
id imagine its a cost issue and so only worth it for a spartan because even if it can scale that low would it be worth it to do so,like is the boost it can give a normal human worth the cost of making suits for everyone.
I'm willing to guess that even with linear amplification a regular person would still end up with multiple severe injuries after use. Most people aren't flexible or in good shape, not to mention pain tolerance and mental discipline.
My thinking is that an unaugmented human can wear it, but its not only expensive but that getting the armour without the augments doesnt really give them much of an edge, my headcanon is that ONI spec ops odst have the armour but no augments , qnd higher up osdts or higher official have made themselves into full on spartan 4s.
From the little I know of Mjolnir generations, my bet would be gen 3 is more expensive than gen 2 but not as expensive as gen 1. Any pilot can fly an F22 but you only let the best pilots fly a plane as expensive as Avengers Endgame.
It strikes me that the first Mjolnir suits were using neuromuscular feedback , and that’s why the first users died. Fast forward a generation or two, and anyone with a DNI and a suit expert system should be able to WEAR one. You just route directly through the brain to the suit and the suit moves the body - you block the body feedback. This doesn’t mean an unaugmented human can make effective use of it.
ONI is certainly interested in lower grade suits that still protect soldiers on the cheap. Ones that aren’t moving so fast that they snap bone from inertia.
An average civilian has little chance of getting real Mjolnir armor, it’s too expensive and they can’t make the best use of it. But give them “linothorax “ armored combat spacesuits that give you Olympic level athletic ability and you’ve got a winner.