I would say that cell use at least 50% of power against goku so a ssj2 would be equal strong as cell but if he dont lock he would loose due to energy loss.
Goku didn't officially reach SSJ2 during Cell Games aka Super Saiyan Grade 5 though. He just perfected Super Saiyan at Grade 4 (this still has the blue electric arcs). But hypothetically speaking, if Cell did it would have to be facing Goku during Buu Saga and as Cell has Saiyan DNA, he would also have surpassed Gohan SSJ2 lvl in that time span.
Im glad you made the distiction of Cell Games SSJ2 Goku and not the one we officially see upon his return in the Buu Saga against SSJ2 Majin Vegeta. If it was that version of Goku he'd mop the floor with any form of Perfect Cell easily
Yeah, I feel most DB fans forget How Power Level Works. I Still remember someone not understanding How super saiyan Broly could give trouble to Goku and Vegeta in blue form. He's Just that strong in base form that the Super saiyan form multipliers makes him above blue, lol. And there's Also the time periods Where their Power was lower like SSJ2 Goku in Cell saga would probably be around SSJ Goku Level in Buu saga, maybe a little lower.
@@aminenamga8548That fight really showed how good Goku is as a tactician against Cell, I wish his Instant Kamehameha killed Cell but the plot said "No"
@@Valientlink Imagine SSJ3 on such a psychotic episode, but devs too lazy to animate and colour so made up bullsh in stamina/ki drain and the body can't take it to rob us of such an epic display of power...yet they hit SSJ4 in GT with longer black hair (more tedious to shade in), just BIG LOLz at the writers of both the anime and manga bro. Imagine creating a stronger form that's worse. Imagine Super Saiyan having a weakness in some aspect compared to a reg saiyan...💀💀💀💀
In the Japanese version, when Trunks is about to ask Vegeta to train with him, he says that even with all his pride, his father must understand that it's more efficient to train with a sparring partner. And Goku tells Gohan that he might slow him down at first, but he will become a great training partner. I think that this is a big reason why both Goku and Gohan ended up stronger than Vegeta and Trunks.
@@newhybrid101vegeta doesn’t get rest when he trains, he wanted to be stronger than everyone else as soon as possible but wasn’t giving his body any rest. That’s why he wasn’t as strong as Goku was.
@@giannivttrThis is also the reason why Future Gohan was still very weak to face the androids, plus not knowing how to train properly and Trunks was a weaker training partner
@@horodoomwolf yup but gohan had no choice unlike vegeta and was very desperate to make a change and that got him killed. It’s crazy cause if gohan fought either 1 one on one he would’ve won
@@giannivttr Gohan wouldn't have won against either android, if you follow the manga. The last time he'd fought #17, the latter had only been using half of his strength.
see at first i was thinking he meant ssj 2 goku from the buu saga. but once u mentioned it was cell games goku I was like ooooooooo had to delete the whole paragraph lol great vid and I agree
The one thing that kinda derails the argument afterwards is the fact that the z fighters don’t know what Goku looks like while powering up for Korin. They all only feel his 50% ki, so for all they know, he could be bulking up like Trunks.
@@alandoan1640 no he already acknowledged that form was a insufficient waste of power while training with Gohan...thats why he thought of getting to a point to stay in ssj and it feel natural and to increase with even more power from already being in the ssj state
@ That’s not my point. My point is that the Z fighters don’t see Goku power up to 50% for Korin. So for all they know is that Goku’s ki rose to a point where it was shocking to them.
@@alandoan1640Vegeta had already commented that Goku had chosen the normal ssj transformation as an optimal transformation, even saying to trunks “has experience truly taught you nothing?” Basically saying that the bulk form is useless.
Just got to give you an idea on how strong ssj2 gohan is each of those cell jrs are like a dozen time stronger than namek saga goku and might be downplaying them. Grade 2 Vegeta even before the hyperbolic time chamber is far stronger than semi perfect cell who is 2 to 3x stronger than imperfect cell due to android 16 punch literally having no affect on him. and 16 was relative to first form cell. and imperfect cell is definitely 2x stronger than super powerful Piccolo who far surpasses goku and Vegeta as super Saiyans who are a far strongee that what they were on namek. and gohan just kicks through them like butter literally.
Also for people who think grade3 stronger or as strong as ssj 2 Gohan they forget that cell also has access to grade 3 as well due to having Saiyan cells the cell before the cell games in his buffed form frightened grade 3 trunks and was much stronger than him. which makes sense because cell normal state is far stronger than grade 2 trunks. and cell uses grade 3 on his full power state against Gohan and Gohan punched cell so hard that he vomited android 18. Making him atleast two times stronger. it's clear who has more raw power as much as i like trunk's Gohan would slaughter trunks and possibly kill him with one punch. This shouldn't even be a debate.
I think with SSJ2, Goku would definitely be strong enough to beat Perfect Cell, especially since even though Goku doesn't get the same rage boost as Gohan, being enraged make him stronger as well. But yeah Goku would lose to Super Perfect Cell
One thing about Sparking Zero that definitely irked me was this idea that Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 2 could've beaten Cell No dog, pretty sure the only chance they had was Gohan beating Cell (though I will say, an Ssj2 Goku pulling off the instant Kamehameha might be enough to obliterate Cell)
@@nineteen90z Fair - could for sure work, but Cell isn't Kid Buu or Freeza - he's not gonna sit there to let Goku gather that energy because he doesn't know the technique (he mentions being able to use it himself) or have the ability to sense energy (or have the attention span of a house fly like Kid Buu) The real question is if Cell knows all of their techniques why didn't he try to use the Kaioken against Gohan? (The answer is most likely "Toriyama forgot" but it's fun to think about)
@@TrickiousRickious Cell is just as dumb as Kid Buu & Frieza (let Gohan become enraged, gave them time to train for a useless tournament exercise but that's storytelling for you) plus no way in hell can he muster up a S.Bomb, requires a pure heart. He might have Goku's dna but the rest of the genetic make-up is no way pure...Frieza, Vegeta, Piccolo etc.
If Goku stacked mastered Ssj and Kaio-Ken I think he’d stand a decent chance if he thought of it. Mastered Ssj has no drawback anymore at this point so any KK multiplier higher than x2 or x3 would probably be around Gohan Ssj 2 with a rage boost.
He couldn't use kaio ken at the time, because super saiyan's violent nature disrupted the concentration/calm mind you needed to control your ki with kaio ken. That's why Goku got fucked up so bad when he used ssblue with it in super.
@@TheEmeraldSplooshthe transformation is still ineffective super anime explains why he could do it with Blue even tho it’s not manga canon and definitely not Toriyama canon. it’s still a fair argument given the fact kaioken is still an technique of not only you getting a ki enhancement but your body as well takes a toll from it. the toll of ssj and kaioken would do on the body would probably be enough to potentially kill Goku. Only time you ever see it used is in the Pikkon vs Goku filler arc but Goku is dead at that point so it makes sense he doesn’t have a physical body to actually “destroy” but it’s anime only so yeah.
*Goku wasn’t stronger than Grade 3 Trunks. He was faster & could maintain his strength longer without being drained. Cell was at the same level in the Cell Games as he was against Trunks he only used more in the Cell games cause he needed to because he fought a much more COMPETENT fighter in Goku.*
I think SSj2 Goku would win because he is a better fighter, Cell even after ramping up didnt one shot Goku because Goku was on the edge all the time ,sure CEll wasnt worried because he has a ton of power left so its doesnt matter. Goku's specialty is getting the upper hand on his opponent during fights cause he is used to fight enemies stronger then himself and rage boost wasnt a thing back then , Gohan is noted to have high jumps in power but he isnt as good as Goku when it comes to fighting on the same power or stronger then himself.
When? He was always strong we than his opponents... In z at least He beat nappa with Kai ken not strategy He beat Vegeta with teamwork Not one on one skill Teen Goku was stronger this most of his opponents in early DB he just used tricks cuz he was. Silly monkey in a gag comic His raw power in boy body was funny, and yet he also did funny moves But he could just pulled a"serious z Goku face and punched them into oblivion" He's always been strong
He never was the I use skill to fight stronger guys he was the I train hard to learn skills and become strong Yes he uses skill in fights to show. He a martial artists But he often wins Thru muscle cuz it shows his gains and is satisfying for the audience that way
Goku didnt fight to his limit as ssj. Compare his fight with frieza and vegeta. Goku was absolutely tearing apart, vs cell, he wasnt nearly as damaged, not even close. SSJ2 GOKU during cell gamws is stronger than you think. While Gohan had a rage boost. Goku has an EXPERIENCE boost. Hes far more talented than anyone in the planet with martial arts, gohan is nowhere close in experience. Not onle is Goku stronger, all his martial arts movements are also amping the eficiency of his SSj2 power. An SSJ2 goku also means more emotional intensity so he would be angrier, fueling him.
Goku couldn't go to his limit against an opponent with regeneration, differently from cell any damage he takes is permanent so he has to be more careful and wait for opportunities
"Didn't fight to his limit" so y all gonna ignore the fact that he was SWEATING AND EXHALING after throwing the instant Kamehameha and ki barrage he did against cell? The same Cell said Goku was on the verge of losing focus lmao y all goku glazers don't even watch the show or read the manga. You didn't even manage to pull a freaking coehrent argument besides saying dumb stuff that a 5-year-old brat would say to their friends who watch super heroes movies. This is why y all as a fandom are a joke
not to mention goku almost defeated cell even just with regular super saiyan with his instant kamehameha (though if not for plot it really should have defeated cell since it vapourized his upper half including his core). with ssj2 he would be able to pull off a lot more stunts and to a greater degree
I like how you mentioned the fact Cell's power up was like Gohan's was him being SSJ2, thats what I've always thought as one of yhr differences of SSJ2 compared to SSJ is the sparks, which cell gains after his explosion along with his massive zenkai boost
@@reynoldnjoku9735 I agree or at best 60% You know, I’ve always loved powerscaling and I wonder how things would have play out with Gohan ssj2 (without rage boost) vs SPC
Are you nuts? Goku in the buu saga when he went ssj3 was training the whole time after the cell arch. He's way stronger than ssj3 Gohan from cell saga by then buddy. You must be super young and not know a whole lot about dragon ball lol
Goku simps would read through an arc where the message is about Gohan succeeding Goku and conclude that Goku would be able to fight Cell anyways. Truly the peak of media literacy.
@@WestonMeyer-n6x It's only a yuuki (courage) boost. Gohan got both yuuki and shouki (right-mindedness). Plus, Gohan has more potential; Goku said as much. Gohan wasn't even impressed by Goku and Cell's fight, and he lacked both the right mindset and the rage that he had against Cell as an SSJ2.
@@InfernoCleric384 Rage got Gohan from SS1 to SS2. If Goku got to SS2 then he has made up the difference somehow and his power is comparable to SS2 Gohan’s and therefore capable of destroying Cell. The problem is that you are overestimating Cell, he is not capable of fighting a SS2 at full power, that is the power up designed by Toriyama to destroy Cell(even his final revived form).
@@WestonMeyer-n6x "Rage got Gohan from SS1 to SS2. If Goku got to SS2 then he has made up the difference somehow and his power is comparable to SS2 Gohan’s and therefore capable of destroying Cell." Gohan needed rage to get motivated. Without his rage, he couldn't properly access his shouki (right-mindedness), so his rage unlocked both. Goku already has the right mindset, so rage wouldn't give him as great a boost. Also just because you have a transformation doesn't mean you're as strong as someone else with the same transformation. Boo saga Goku and Vegeta (with 7 years of training!) were slightly stronger than CG Gohan (implied to be when he unleashed the FSK), after all. "The problem is that you are overestimating Cell, he is not capable of fighting a SS2 at full power," As I said previously, "SSJ2 tier" is not a thing. Cabba as an SSJ2 is different from Gohan as an SSJ2. Honestly, let's do some scaling and see how strong Cell would be: -SSJ1 Gohan, while totally unmotivated to fight, was still unimpressed by full power MSSJ Goku vs Cell, implying that he could exceed both of them in power. Let's say that he was about 1.2x their strength. -SSJ1 Gohan then got a rage boost, which impressed Cell. I'm pretty sure he also uses his "real speed" as well. Let's say that this was a x1.5 boost. -Then, Gohan gets SSJ2, getting a rage boost. However, since Cell believed that his full power could still challenge Gohan, it's likely that initial SSJ2 Gohan was far, far lower than what he could actually do. Let's say that he's about x2 light rage boost SSJ1 Gohan, who was likely already above SSJ1 Goku by a good amount. All of those multipliers were lowballed and unofficial, and even then, Goku would need to get a rage boost that would almost double his strength just to match FP Perfect Cell. Since you claimed that SSJ2 as a transformation was meant to utterly destroy even SPC, let's do some more scaling! -Cell, who believed that his full power could challenge initial SSJ2 Gohan, gets utterly washed, resulting in him using SSJ Grade 3. That's considered a x10 multiplier by some guide I forgot the name of, which makes sense, since you're forcefully pushing out as much ki as possible. Gohan demolishes that Cell as well, shredding his defenses as well as outrunning him (probably holding back there as well). Thus, Gohan should be about x20 above FP Perfect Cell. -SPC then claims that he's gained a power-up "like Son Gohan". You can see this as him getting SSJ2 himself (thus nullifying your argument about SSJ2) or him gaining power similar to what Gohan showed him (hence his confidence). I believe both, so SPC should be equal to the Gohan (probably holding back, but still) that took him down before. That's a bare minimum x20 boost on top of the x1.8 that we already established, meaning that on top of SSJ2, Goku would at least need *x36 more power* in order to challenge SPC. Do you think some yuuki could offer him that, especially considering that Gohan had far more potential than Goku?
You don't know nothing about dragon Ball z to say super Saiyan 2 goku lose or even struggle is crazy not only he's stronger but he will Molly wop cell your opinion is incorrect go watch dragon Ball z before you say something silly like that
@ it’s ironic really, you’ve put 0 thought into what you’re saying. Just because Goku uses super saiyan 2 doesn’t mean he’s above cell. You have NO argument, your response is “ofc he’ll win”. It’s quite pathetic really
@@DetBird that's crazy you clearly don't know how things work in dragon Ball z go watch it before you even have an argument then come back when you learn something 😺
The ssj and ssj2 multipliers are a lot higher than people know. Grade 1 is 50x Grade 2 is a huge Amp Grade 3 has guides that say it's 10x ssj Grade 4 is even stronger and faster Grade 5 is 2x Grade 4 Ssj3 is 4x Grade 5
grade 2 and 3 are different from grade 5 and ss2 (this got changed later so ig back then you would be right) rn grade 1 and grade 4 have same multiplier with just having better ki control whereas grade 5 is just a new level of ssj which has NO relation with grade 2 and 3 multipliers (which is essentially just buffing your body up with ki to increase the strength)
@aryanGamin25 everything you said is made up. The japanese translation for the multipers refers to grades and not super sayian. It says ssj2 is 2x grade 4, Grade 4 is way stronger than grade 3. With your logic, vegeta would be stronger than goku and grade 3 would be stronger than ssj2 that makes no sense and the series directly says 2x grade 4 They have guides that says grade 3 is 10x normal ssj, so is grade 3 5x stronger than grade 5 but just slower? Come on bro you're wrong at least send a link to whatever made you say that
@aryanGamin25 goku and vegeta are relative in base before the time chamber vegeta spends the mass majority of his time working on his base form and ssj Goku spends all of his time working on getting Gohan to super saiyan. Once obtained they stayed in super saiyan for the vast remainder of the time in there. Whis says the fastest way to get stronger is to improve your base and not transform. Vegeta was working on his base most of the time while goku worked on the grade 1 ssj. How is goku monsterously stronger than grade 2 vegeta if gokus base didn't improve as much as vegetas? Hell they have guided comparing base goku and base vegeta at the end of the cell games. Grade 4 is a monster Amp closer to 500 to 1000x ssj
The anime continuity is a stomp SSJ1 Goku was comparable to Pikkon who while holding back blitzed and twoshot Cell who was stated to be far stronger than he was when alive.
tbf tho cell didnt expect it (atleast from the look of his face) and then pikkon didnt land another blow so we dont know for sure (then again thats cuz cell didnt even try fighting back) gotta say tho the anime has lot of wrong stuff when it comes to power scaling
You saying sperfect cell was anywhere near ssj2 gohans power is just false imo. Cell got clapped by a 50% power ssj2 gohan in a beam struggle (i know he got a bit of help, but still 50% clapped super perfect cells 100%!).
Thus the hyperbolic time chamber training and beating Cell. Poof. Weak Gohan fixed. You ever think Goku was pushing Gohan so hard for this exact purpose, to avoid that fate?
Great video a lot of fans don’t understand how potent gohan’s rage boost was on top of his ssj2 transformation. It took goku and vegeta 7 years of training to close the gap. A cell saga ssj 2 goku wouldn’t be a fraction of gohan’s power.
I honestly feel like things would get worse. Let’s say during his fight with Gohan cell actually kills Gohan before 16 could intervene. Goku goes ssj2, I feel like Goku would most likely want to humiliate cell similar to how he did fireza. Cell would most likely take the chance to self-destruct. Goku would sacrifice himself just like the main timeline. But then super perfect cell shows up with no Goku or gohan to stop him. Maybe handing cell that senzu wasn’t so bad after all.
@ he did hand Moro a senzu despite how seeing how much it back fired with cell. Not saying goku doesn’t learn from his mistakes at all. But when he’s in rage he can be pretty reckless. And there’s no way he won’t be mad after seeing cell brutally kill Gohan.
@ If anything, Goku was being merciful with Moro, following the Galactic Patrol's ideas of imprisonment and his own morals. It's more akin to the Freeza situation than Cell. Goku wouldn't do that with Cell, though. People oftentimes neglect to mention the reason why Goku was perfectly willing to murder Cell, but it's because he already knows that Cell won't honor a deal; look at how he killed the military guys after promising not to kill any innocents. Plus, after Freeza, Goku never outright tortures anybody out of sadism. He's flubbed up a few situations, but those were more out of sport and general incompetence than deliberate cruelty. SSJ Goku on Namek was probably when he was the most unnatural in comparison to his usual demeanor; in Japanese, he literally changes his dialect.
@ I guess your right, I just feel like cell has a lot more chances. Plus if goku really would try to kill him, Goku wouldn’t know of cells nuclease and cell would gain a zenkai, I might be stretching it tho. Could really go either way. I just feel like there’s a lot of opportunity’s cell could take with Goku in rage.
@@ThePerfectMenace Oh, sure. Goku isn't getting past SPC, even if he does defeat FP Perfect Cell. Super Perfect Cell was equal to the same Gohan that defeated FP Cell's Power Weighted form, meaning he at least got a 10 times boost.
Bruh if we are talking about Perfect cell before revival he is getting the ssj2 gohan treatment and even goku knew cell had to die so i don't see him playing around that insta kamehameha will have been a go to for the kill and im sure cell ain't surviving that
@@aitorchul2262 thank u Goku aint toying with his opponents hes going for the kill ...cell got stronger because of Goku having to save everyone due to Gohans negligence
No I don’t agree. Goku simply did reach that high in power that time & cell & Goku were stronger. But if Goku had more time to train, he could become stronger & strongest. His SS2 would be stonger than Gohan,s SS2.
saying "if" doesn't mean that he does Gohan was literally stated to be stronger than goku this is like saying what if goku trained a little more before cell this is a completely different conversation
You're acting like the Ki blast did any damage, it was simply a distraction. SSJ2 Goku would beat Perfect Cell but a Super Perfect Cell would wreck an SSJ2 Goku considering a Mastered SSJ Goku was still weaker than Perfect Cell.
@rbacon8922 gohan was weaker then cell. Duh. That's why he needed ssj2. Yall make no sense. Everything was weaker then cell. Gohan or goku stood no chance against cell untill ssj2. You definitely didn't see the episode when truks explained aftwr he died they told him.vegeta attacked cell.....then they said that was one of the best attacks that hit cell. Cell briefly struggled with the attack because vegeta was enraged. Just like gohan when he gets mad. Even ssj2 vegeta enraged against beersu was stronger then ssj3 briefly. So a ssj2 goku or gohan would destroy cell it don't matter which one because they both were strong enough. Cell power dropped alot after goku fight which is why goku gave him a bean. Ssj2 goku would crush cell.
@ Vegeta's strongest hit on Cell was the final flash. That blast that he did was just plain yapping from Trunks. If Cell wasn't beam struggling against 1 armed SSJ2 Gohan, the attack would've been tanked. Literally, again the blast was a distraction. The damage it did to cell was not significant enough. Cell's power dropped after fighting Goku but he was still strong enough to go toe to toe with SSJ Gohan because he had power restored. Again, Goku only lasted that long because of Skills, hence a hypothetical SSJ2 Goku wouldn't beat a Super Perfect Cell. Because Goku wouldn't have a rage boost, NOR potential close to Gohan's hence why Goku made Gohan fight Cell. That's the whole point of him putting his faith into Gohan because he was aware of Gohan's potential to become the strongest of them all. Goku isn't a dumby or atleast not in Z before super. Super Perfect Cell beats a cell saga SSJ2 Goku, its as simple as that. You're talking as if Gohan going SSJ2 automatically made him above Cell when from the get go when he had a rage boost and tapped into his hybrid potential hence why even a Super Perfect Cell was beam struggling with a kid using 1 arm.
@@bombyo3634ss2 isn't that big of a boost also if Gohan stood no chance that would make Goku stupid... Goku can't predict ss2 He would only think at best Gohan had a rage boost And he didn't want Gohan to rage outhe wanted Gohan to beat up cell. Like normal people would Also! He gave cell a senzu Are..did u watch or read the show/book
He had already did it and he hints at it many times throughout those episodes.. The issue was he came to the conclusion that he was bringing the constant threats and he's not going to live forever.. This officially was Akira Toriyama trying to pass the torch to Gohan.. And I know what you're going to say "oh that can't be true because he fell to a cell Junior.." I'll give you one clue and only one for everything to even out.. Goku said and i quote "the transformation comes from a need and not a want.." The situation had to be desperate which was a bad f****** idea, but that's just what it was..
I ultimately think that if Goku had achieved super saiyan 2 during the Cell Games, he would definitely be stronger than Perfect Cell, and possibly be stronger than Super Perfect Cell, even if only by a narrow margin.
@@blackwhitestudios5953 But couldn't "to play around" mean using like 60% or even 75% of one's power (depending on how comfortable a person is with the use of his own full power)? Vegeta in Freeza Saga was obliterating people over whom he had a narrower than 25% margin of power level advantage, wasn't he? If Gohan thought Goku were at 75%, a potential SSJ2 would be 150% as strong as Gohan's estimative of Goku's maximum SSJ power; if 60%, that would be 120%. Couldn't a Goku with those power levels have any chance against Perfect Cell?
Based on the fight SS1 Goku was clearly weaker than Cell. I do not think there was a considerable difference between the power Cell was using and SS1 Goku. Goku was still able to keep up and swap blows. Though, Cell after the two had used every technique in their arsenal was less danaged. Which shows Cells durability was greater than Gokus if you factor in regeneration into the mix. However, I do believe Goku was more durable if you do not factor the ability to regrow body parts into the equation. With Goku basically being 1 tier below Cell. I can confidently say he would be able to defeat Cell while he was using the power displayed while fighting Goku. However, his max power was still superior to a hypothetical SS2 Goku. I even believe Cell at max power was still above SS2 Gohan. Without the assistance from Goku his son Gohan would have lost the beam struggle.
And that's not even considering the fact that Goku knew he had reached a limit that wasn't going to be broken any time soon. Gohan really was our only chance
a couple things: 1. el manga legendario says that ssj grade 4 is 10x base ssj 2. ssj2 gohan potentially also had a rage boost, which makes sense because gohan only getting 2x stronger doesn't explain the immense growth (cell was still holding back vs ssj gohan, then he powered up significantly to full, and still got 2 tapped)
Yeah but Gohan held back too.. Gohan would be much stronger than cell and still need a rage boost cuz.. He isn't a fighter He hates fighting Rage makes it okay, but makes him aggroannt
Cell was using 50% of his power when fighting against full power super saiyan Goku. Goku only lost due to stamina drain. They were pretty much equal throughout that fight. If Goku were to obtain super saiyan 2, then he would be exactly 2x stronger than 50% cell since they were equal prior to Super Saiyan 2, which also means that full power cell would be equal to super saiyan 2 Goku since 100% cell is also twice as strong as 50% cell. Super saiyan 2 seems to have greater stamina than super saiyan 1 does, so Goku should be able to win that fight with extreme difficulty, but hes not winning against* super perfect cell💀 Super sayian 1 Goku =< 50% perfect cell Super saiyan 2 Goku >= 100% Perfect Cell Super Sayian 2 Goku
Stamina means nothing also, it doesn't it has less stamina actually. Higher power level means stamina cux ur stronger everywhere but for everyone... Ss1 could last 1000 punches Ss2 could give 2000 A powerful being at ss2 does the same 2000 punches Minus! Ss2 drains whatever energy is used for super siayan as a whole Clearly fighters can use energy post super Saiyan But it's less There a limit to how long the form lasts Super Saiyan 2 and 3 aren't forms but gardens of super Saiyan 2 drains u and 3 even more so So by that logic ss2 Goku would be less stamina not more Let alone if they were equals... Cell has Regen Cell clears
@massmurdertron51 there's three instances in the show that prove you wrong. When ssj2 gohan launched a Kamehameha wave at perfect Cell's Kamehameha wave during their first clash ( if you can even call it that), gohan had plenty of energy to spare afterwards. Vegeta even mentions that gohan had increased energy reserves because of his new form. The 2nd one that proves you wrong is goku vs Caulifla and kale. Goku had hardly no energy left after his fight against Jiren, but he still was able to climb up his transformations, which further proves that higher transformations can give you more stamina. The last instance is goku vs Frieza. Goku seemed to be out of breath towards the end of the fight (before super saiyan), but once he turned super 1, he longer was out of breath. You can interpret that as him restoring his stamina if you like, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was fighting Frieza longer while he was super saiyan than when he was in base. Higher Fusion transformations and super 3 are the only known transformations that give less stamina. Stamina absolutely matters. Goku vs cell, Vegeta vs android 18 and many others is proof that it does. Ssj2 Goku > 100% Perfect Cell And For goku to obtain ssj2, he would have to train with Vegeta so he'd be able to focus more on himself than someone else, which means ssj2 Goku would be way stronger than 100% perfect cell.
I love these kinds of videos please do one on Android Saga(before training in the hyperbolic time chamber and before fusing with Kami) piccolo versus trunks please?!
I had thought upon rewatching recently that they actually made it pretty clear that Perfect Cell was stronger than Goku period. Goku wouldn’t put his son in that position had he been able to do the job himself, despite what some bandwagoners say.
If Goku trained an additional year in the time chamber to unlock SSJ2, I see him winning without too much difficulty. But at Goku's canon level of power in the Cell games, it would be a very hard fight to win, and Goku has a good chance of losing. At worst, it plays out like a more intense version of the actual Goku vs Cell fight with the same outcome (even giving Cell the senzu bean...). If Goku started as SSJ1 and then went SSJ2 to catch Cell off guard with a flurry of offense, he may damage Cell enough to even the odds before Cell can reach max power. Given how cocky Cell is, he may take SSJ2 lightly before getting smacked around for a bit. If Cell's forced to regenerate, Goku already stated that Cell's power would drop as a result of regeneration too. On that note, the instant-transmission kamehameha would be WAY more powerful, and there's a chance Goku could destroy 100% of Cell's body, though that'd be very lucky. The issue with all of this is Goku wasn't fighting to win at all costs, just to show Gohan how Cell fights. So Goku probably wouldn't use any underhanded tricks like hiding SSJ2 to get a surprise advantage. He'd challenge Cell to go full power and duke it out, likely with bad results.
SSJ2 Goku would've most likely been 15-20% or so weaker than Gohan, who in turn completely dominated Perfect Cell. I'd expect a similar gap between Android 16 and 18 for SSJ2 Goku and Perfect Cell. I personally don't believe in rage boosts that can be maintained for more than short-lived bursts. If Gohan had had some sort of a long-term rage boost, he sure didn't have it against Super Perfect Cell, not to mention he was injured, and he still somehow won in the end. That would either imply that the zenkai Cell had was minimal, or the SSJ2 multiplier should be 3x minimum otherwise the theory just has no credence. I'm going to double down on the assertion that SSJ2 is 2x, and Cell got a sizeable boost to his power (around 50%).
it would have been an amazing fight, the likes that are very very close like Piccolo vs Goku, where either fighter could realistically win and it comes down to skill and improv and not just an overwhelming power level gap stomp
Cell could do that and have Regen.. Cell let Goku hurt home cuz he knew he was stronger if he needed to go all out If it was all out Cell would kill. Goku Without Regen With Regen The fight isn't close To best a regenerator u need to have a more then a close gap u need a huge one
Ssj 2 goku would beat perfect cell but would lose to super perfect cell. If Goku was that much weaker than cell his mastered ssj wouldn't have given him such a good fight. Just because everyone was shocked at cells power doesn't meant he was that much stronger than goku. Remember during the frieza saga how terrified of vegeta dodoria was. Vegeta was only 24,000 while dodoria was i believe 21 or 22,000.
It depends on the continuity. In the anime Gohan tanked a Tri beam from the Cell juniors. We all know how strong the tri beam is (Tien vs Semi Perfect Cell). The difference between Tien & Cell would be atleast a 1000 so SSJ2 Gohan should easily be around 2000 times stronger than Goku.
@theiceman7590 Gohan also got a dormant power unlock. I can explain detail why I have these answers but that would be too long. Maybe someday I will make video on it.
Actually, if Goku was able to achieve SSJ2 he’d be a bit more powerful since he’s older than Gohan. Officially, Gohan had the power level of 5-billion when in the Super Saiyan 2 form. And Super Perfect Cell is at that power level as well when he returned from death after blowing himself up.
tf are you talking about? we dont even have power levels after frieza saga (closest thing we got back was kili or whatever used by babidi) also if you are about to reference a guidebook dont cuz they are inconsistent too when it comes to dbz (mainly due to anime and manga differences)
Goku wouldn't win with SSJ2 but it WOULD be closer than you'd think. Unless you give him mastered or at least as much as in the Buu Saga then he can win.
Bro are you completely stupid cell used almost all his power in the fight and you going to tell me that Goku being 150 times stronger wouldn't win your smoking crack
Goku gave up the fight because Akira passed the torch to Gohan here which was a bad idea. Pretty much simple he was trying to find a way to take Goku out of the picture.
cell went full because he was forced to do so by Gohan and other warriors reacted at 100 % cell with goosebumps because they realized how much more they were outclassed and how much more cell was holding back but still Gohan outclassed them all
Gohan also had rage amps besides just being stronger than Goku while in a calm state. Goku SSJ: 15,000,000,000 Gohan SSJ: 20,000,000,000 Hypothetical SSJ2 Cell Games Goku: 30,000,000,000 Enraged SSJ Gohan: 27,000,000,000 SSJ2 Gohan: 54,000,000,000 Super Perfect Cell: 56,000,000,000 *multiple guides and statements suggest he surpassed him initially SSJ2 Gohan(One arm/Demoralised): 26,000,000,000 SSJ2 Gohan(Full Power): 57,000,000,000 Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku: 60,000,000,000
I think Goku was more relative to Cell than you think. After their fight, Cell was slightly winded, while Goku still had enough strength to more or less fight on par with the Cell Jrs (who themselves are no slouches in power either). So while Cell was clearly a lot stronger, especially after showing his actual full power, I don't think he would have been over twice as strong as SSJ grade 4 Goku. And on the topic of Cell's full power, while it is indeed a power-up that left the rest of the Z Fighters dazed, I don't think it would have been enough to beat even a suppressed SSJ2 Gohan. Cell thinks he could have competed, but remember that Cell also then goes on to buff himself up and make himself completely unable to ever land a single hit on Gohan. Once he starts being taken apart, he stops thinking quite as well and more so starts hoping. How I'd rank the main Cell Game fighters would then be: SSJ2 Gohan > SPC > Suppressed SSJ2 Gohan > Theoretical SSJ2 Goku >= Full Power Perfect Cell > Start of the Cell Games Cell > SSJ Gohan > SSJ Goku. Though even then, SSJ2 Goku matching Cell's Full Power still bodes poorly for him, since Cell's bag would be a lot deeper + Cell has insane durability and regen. Super Perfect Cell would also still absolutely fold SSJ2 Goku, and imo even a theoretical Super Kaioken 2 Goku would lose against him.
What we know is that SSJ1 Grade 4 Goku was equal to or in the same general tier of Perfect Cell. Cell just doesn’t get tired so he wore Goku down until Goku realized he couldn’t take him out permanently and wound inevitably lose, but that since Gohan had SSJ2 locked away somewhere, he could beat Cell. Point being, Goku going SSJ2 during the Cell battle would mean he’d easily wipe the floor with Cell, being at least twice as strong (power levels are weird because it seems to scale somewhere between linearly and exponentially) but with a clear mind to wipe him out. He wouldn’t be as powerful as Gohan since he wouldn’t have the rage boost but he could still manhandle Cell and without being beholden to passionate emotions, Goku would take Cell out before he could think to self destruct.
@@nathansilla3283yeah, and Goku would still be stronger than Cell during the cell games. Gohan completely outclassed Cell as a SSJ2 and Goku wasn’t that much weaker than Gohan in their base forms.
@JusBross Perfect cell maybe, but when he returned from the kamikaze, nuh uh. One beam blast from celll severely injured Gohan, and he only won the beam struggle due to his hidden power, and with the help of the z fighters.
@@JusBross "wasnt that much weaker".... really? A supressed ssj gohan felt his dad wasnt going all out with cell despite goku admitting that he indeed was. Cell was holding back both against goku and gohan until after gohan went ssj2 and 1 shotted the cell jrs (mind you they are stated to be on par with perfect cell). Whats even crazier is that when cell powered up to full power everyone was astonished that cell still had this much power left in the tank... except for gohan.
Interesting. We know that at the beginning of the Buu saga Gohan has grown weaker in the preceding years as he struggles against Dabura who I'm pretty sure it is said is as strong as Cell was during the Cell Games, now whether this is a strong as so called Super Perfect Cell is unclear. However Vegeta states at this time he could beat Dabura and presumably quite easily as well. Vegeta and Goku have both achieved SSJ2 at this point and their base forms are much higher than Gohans was during the Cell Games as they've been training for 7 years constantly so presumably Cell would be of no threat to either of them anymore. Interestingly Vegeta despite his SSJ2 achievement seems to still be (and he seems to know it) a bit weaker than Goku. When he gives into the Majin Vegeta form he increases his power to equal (although I think it is actually slightly higher) than Goku's SSJ2 form but of course Goku has SSJ3 in his back pocket. At any rate when Goku and Vegeta fight I believe it has been said they were both fighting at much higher power levels than SSJ2 Gohan and Cell were in their battle.
The things I never really see mentioned here are two things: 1) No one is mentioning how Goku would ascend to SS2. That makes a big difference as you can apply a theoretical rage boost similar to Gohan's. If he unlocked the form in the TC, then he and Gohan would've stayed the full year in there to master the form. 2) I haven't seen any comments mentioning Zenkai. Cell for sure got stronger after Goku tossed him a Senzu. Are we talking before Cell had his health and energy fully restored? That's the only way to really compare Cell and Goku. Afterward, Goku was on the brink, and Cell was fully restored, plus some more. Are we giving them both Senzu? Probably not. When Cell powered up to Gohan after getting rocked, he had already been restored to full health. He has all of the z fighters' DNA, as well as Radditz, Nappa, Frieza, and King Cold. Cell's potential is much greater than Gohan's, as we clearly saw after Goku's untimely demise.
i would say a ssj2 Goku would be stronger than cell before blowing himself up and the power boost from that regeneration. So if he were to take out cell entirely so that he does not regenerate Goku wins but if Cell regenerates to come back stronger and then he wins. I do think part of that is one detail you ignored, the sensu bean. Even holding back, Cell was getting fatigued during the fight with Goku and especially after having to regenerate from Goku blasting the upper half of his body off. While it may not have been the big boost he got from recovering after blowing himself up. I believe much of that hidden energy Cell didn't display early against Gohan was due to a power boost from the sensu bean.
There is no reason for the headcannon the senzu powered him up other than for Goku to be his equal.. When the narrative goes out of its way to say Gohan is earths only hope It's not compelling if Goku could done a ss2 and won. So no cell just got his energy back ,no zenkai
@@massmurdertron51your basically taking back the whole exercise of this video with that claim. I definitely do not think trunks or vegeta would have won if they had been able to unlock ss2 at that moment. Maybe there is a difference in how much stronger we think gohan is to goku. The reason gohan is the hope is because goku knew gohan was far more likely to go ss2 in this fight. Gokus demeanor the whole fight would have needed to be more like it was against frieza than the laid back one he takes against cell. This to me is the biggest factor in his not being able to go ss2.
It’s possible Goku was hiding ss2 I can’t think of any scenario where Goku would not push himself to his max to ascend to the highest power possible and for gohan to reach ss2 and not Goku I just can’t imagine it…
Yea but didn't Vegeta state in the Buu Saga prior to his fight with Goku at SSJ2 that they both were stronger than Gohan when he defeated Cell; I think it's safe to say that prior to Gohan's Z Sword training, only Goku and Vegeta were stronger than everyone from the Cell Saga.
People need to stop taking the Buu saga into account on this... The argument is whether SSJ 2 Goku would've stood a chance had he obtained the form in the Cell Games. This isn't like a New Game+ situation. And yes, I say people need to stop taking the Buu saga into account because you're at least the 5th person in this comments section who has brought up Buu Saga events
We never got to even see an uninjured SSJ2 Gohan vs Super Perfect Cell in a clean fight so for all we know Cell is still a tiny bit stronger than Gohan. If not stronger he still has regeneration so I think Cell would win against Gohan in a fair fight with no distractions.
It is stated that cell jrs are roughly as strong as cell by the daizenshuu 7, ssj2 gohan clears cell it’s not even slightly close. Also since his ki was half when he fights ssj2 cell (cell claims this in the manga) and still wins it implies that full power ssj gohan was stronger than perfect cell. Ssj2 goku clears perfect cell this isn’t a debate. He obviously loses to super perfect cell.
I dont think goku would beat full power perfect cell in ssj2 cause they would be pretty close in power so completely evaporating cell is out of the question, resulting in super perfect cell anyways
@@edogawaconan945 Uhm, canon just means “main continuity” essentially, which the video is discussing. Nice projection though buddy. Definitely isn’t pathetic projecting and insulting a random comment over nothing on a damn Dragon Ball TH-cam “power-scaling” video Maybe learn some self-awareness as you literally clicked on a versus video.
SSJ1 Goku = SSJ1 Gohan in the Cell Saga since after Cell beats SSJ1 Gohan, he told SSJ1 Goku to eat a sensu and FIGHT HIM again. Why would Cell say that if SSJ1 Gohan was stronger? In Buu Saga, Goku can go SSJ2 and SSJ3, which reinforces the fact he his SSJ1 didn't get any stronger and was mastered back in the previous arc.
Before even watching this vid, I already know Vegeta needing the Majin multiplayer to even face Goku, proves that ‘Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku’ is minimum ~4x stronger than ‘Super Perfect Cell.’ Buu Saga (non-Majin) SSJ2 Vegeta is stronger than ‘Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan’ & Super Perfect Cell (+the father-son kamehameha), but still only ‘rivaled’ SSJ2 Goku in their fight after receiving the Majin multiplayer. Just lowballing & saying the Majin boost is a 2x multiplayer, proves ‘Buu Saga MSSJ Goku’ is enough to rival a non-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta, & w/ SSJ2 being a stated 2x multiplayer from MSSJ, that makes SSJ2 Goku ~4x+ ‘Cell Games Gohan’ & Super Perfect Cell. *Edit:* I typed all that sh*t b4 knowing this vid is ab a ‘SSJ2 Cell Games Goku’ 🙃
If we use the anime at no point until vs gohan did cell use his true power. We see this when he says he's going to and then his Aura changes to his golden "ssj" one.
what goku meant is i cant believe cell got stronger since the last time i saw him, which was his imperfect form. trunks asked him if he is really that strong. like too strong for goku to beat, because thats just how trunk's character is. grade 3 trunks is more powerful than goku, as stated by cell he is stronger than him but is too slow. still trunk's raw power is not too far above gokus but nothing compared to gohan. i would put him in between ssj2 gohan and goku closer to goku comparing all the fights. however cell mightve gotten a zenkai boost after vegeta and trunks fought him mainly because of vegetas final flash. i would actually put gohans ssj form in between grade 3trunks and ssj goku, as we saw gohan kick cell pretty hard. still just like goku he was no match for cells speed in ssj, but i feel like he caught on faster than goku. gohan is probably around 10-15% faster and stronger than goku in both of their ssj forms. yes he would obliterate cell. now if we want to talk about super perfect cell. it would be pretty close. and if cell was right saying he powered up like gohan and got a zenkai. goku just might be toast. sure gohan had his arm broken. first thing is, cell broke gohans arm with a blast enough for vegeta. it wasnt some full on blast. it was gohans rage that made him win the blast battle and help from others. if it played out as gohan dies against cell, getting his ribs crushed and goku took a sensu bean and went ssj2, he would obliterate cell. now if a scenario plays out to where cells core regenerates, and he comes back. goku would bat away cells beam shot for trunks. in his rage his senses are keen and is not taking any chances. cell would tell goku his core regenerates, and goku would tell him tthat it looks like he will make sure he obliterates him this time. then the battle ensues. gokus rage gives ssj2 a little boost too. but this goku is not messing around. with his techniques heatened and his senses, he outplays cell much like he started to in the beginning of the cell games, but more reminecsent of ssj2 gohan. he uses instant transmission very frequently as well. to finish off cell he hits him up, instant transmissions behind him bats him forward, instant transmissions again, cell swings, and goku used an after image, he hears goku say behind you, and turns around and looks up sees goku rushes towards him and swings, goku had used the after image again. all this time you can hear a feint ka me ha me, as goku was waay up in the sky where nobody could see him. he waited until cell swung at that last after image, before he teleported behind him, as he shouts LIMIT BREAAAK RRRAAAAAAAHHHHH
Some of you are getting confused he is saying what if goku turned ssj2 in the cell games not buu version but in the cell saga it’s obvious that ssj2 goku would beat perfect cell but not spc because his mastered ssj was not even enough to beat a 50% cell so imagine a full powered spc vs a ssj2 goku at the time cell would stomp
There is no real difference between a hypothetical SS2 Goku in the Cell Games and the SS2 Goku in the Buu Saga. You have to cross a threshold in power to get SS2 and if Goku crossed it in the Cell Games then he is as powerful as the Goku who crossed it in the Buu Saga.
Ssj2 goku would beat perfect cell but would lost to super perfect cell. But if he had a rage boost , I think he’d be slightly better than super perfect cell
lets make this theory more complicated cell has frieza's dna, while waiting cell did a little meditation as shown in the super, when frieza meditated in "hell" he has grown a lot stronger for the tournament arc, so cell got stronger by then lol
Poor cell never stood a chance even powering like gohan. And it's crazy to think that even all what Gohan shown in the anime and and manga he still didnt show his full power. Gohan was unbeatable he was a Buu saga level at that time the only way he can be defeated through cheap shot lol
Since gohan was stated to be stronger than goku in base, so if goku pull all that effort into making gohan in base not even strong enough to defeat freiza to him becomjng stronger than goku, so if goku put all that training into himself i do think ssj2 goku can beat perfect cell
ok THAT makes sense (tho i think goku did all he could to train himself too iirc he even said that he had done all he could in the rosat to trunks and vegeta)
@aryanGamin25 it makes perfect sense he made someone weaker then freiza stronger than goku who defeated freiza so if goku put all that training into him he can become stronger than cell în ssj2 and probally lower
@ ok thats true (but i dont think we should compare how gohan grew with goku considering gohan had OVERWHELMING amount of potential and growth rate with lesser effort when compared to goku)
Goku ssj2 would be stronger than that, no because virginia or anyone says it, is just because goku would have to train more to get it, and no, the whole "training with a partner" bs dont change anything, goku didnt had anyone good to train with him in the otherworld, paikuhan is non canon, so the results of him training 7 days would be only weaker for the gravity x10, that is still enough to be stronger than cell and gohan ssj2
Warriors Z are lucky Cell doesn’t used the 10 days he give to them to train otherwise Cell would overcome even Goku SSJ3 easily after all Cell have Freeza cells.
This is *Cell Games* SSJ2 Goku btw
I would say that cell use at least 50% of power against goku so a ssj2 would be equal strong as cell but if he dont lock he would loose due to energy loss.
Goku didn't officially reach SSJ2 during Cell Games aka Super Saiyan Grade 5 though. He just perfected Super Saiyan at Grade 4 (this still has the blue electric arcs).
But hypothetically speaking, if Cell did it would have to be facing Goku during Buu Saga and as Cell has Saiyan DNA, he would also have surpassed Gohan SSJ2 lvl in that time span.
ruh
@@nineteen90zbruh
Whaaa?? Goku never went SS2 during the Cell games. He was still SS1 but ascended.
Im glad you made the distiction of Cell Games SSJ2 Goku and not the one we officially see upon his return in the Buu Saga against SSJ2 Majin Vegeta. If it was that version of Goku he'd mop the floor with any form of Perfect Cell easily
@@Spinofan lol underestimating the power of ssj2 Goku combined with his skill and experience
He never went SS2 during the Cell games though...
@@qtippz yeah i kno its hypothetical but based on dbz goku hes not messing around
@@qtippz no shit its a hypothetical scenario dummy
Yeah, I feel most DB fans forget How Power Level Works.
I Still remember someone not understanding How super saiyan Broly could give trouble to Goku and Vegeta in blue form. He's Just that strong in base form that the Super saiyan form multipliers makes him above blue, lol.
And there's Also the time periods Where their Power was lower like SSJ2 Goku in Cell saga would probably be around SSJ Goku Level in Buu saga, maybe a little lower.
The rage boost was what made Ssj 2 Gohan scary. The multiplier was already high. He already was stronger. Rage made him nearly two shot.
And somehow people say gohan vs cell is a better fight than goku vs cell lol
@@aminenamga8548That fight really showed how good Goku is as a tactician against Cell, I wish his Instant Kamehameha killed Cell but the plot said "No"
@ plot said no so we could watch a kid crying. I agree.
scary is a good description. SSJ2 Gohan was basically a psychotic break. Similar to Goku on Namek but way worse
@@Valientlink Imagine SSJ3 on such a psychotic episode, but devs too lazy to animate and colour so made up bullsh in stamina/ki drain and the body can't take it to rob us of such an epic display of power...yet they hit SSJ4 in GT with longer black hair (more tedious to shade in), just BIG LOLz at the writers of both the anime and manga bro. Imagine creating a stronger form that's worse. Imagine Super Saiyan having a weakness in some aspect compared to a reg saiyan...💀💀💀💀
When Goku turned SS2 in front of Majin Vegeta, Vegeta stated that Goku was stronger than Gohan against Cell
7 years later
@@UncleLincolnCause he hasn't seen Goku in 7 years -_-
I think this was because he had been training for literally 7 YEARS AS HE WAS DEAD IN THE OTHER REALM? But i dunno, it's just a theory of mine. /s
He's talking about Cell games Goku, obviously Buu saga Goku would demolish Cell
db fans try to pay attention to the video challenge (they can't, they suffer from short attention span
In the Japanese version, when Trunks is about to ask Vegeta to train with him, he says that even with all his pride, his father must understand that it's more efficient to train with a sparring partner. And Goku tells Gohan that he might slow him down at first, but he will become a great training partner. I think that this is a big reason why both Goku and Gohan ended up stronger than Vegeta and Trunks.
Vegeta trained alone,occassionally smacking Trunks but thats it.
Thats why his growth wasnt like Gokus
@@newhybrid101vegeta doesn’t get rest when he trains, he wanted to be stronger than everyone else as soon as possible but wasn’t giving his body any rest. That’s why he wasn’t as strong as Goku was.
@@giannivttrThis is also the reason why Future Gohan was still very weak to face the androids, plus not knowing how to train properly and Trunks was a weaker training partner
@@horodoomwolf yup but gohan had no choice unlike vegeta and was very desperate to make a change and that got him killed. It’s crazy cause if gohan fought either 1 one on one he would’ve won
@@giannivttr Gohan wouldn't have won against either android, if you follow the manga. The last time he'd fought #17, the latter had only been using half of his strength.
Gohan's potential played a massive part in the Cell Games.
see at first i was thinking he meant ssj 2 goku from the buu saga. but once u mentioned it was cell games goku I was like ooooooooo had to delete the whole paragraph lol great vid and I agree
Gohan was not amped on top of SSJ2 because of rage. Why do DB fans make things up wtf. SSJ2 WAS the rage boost
The one thing that kinda derails the argument afterwards is the fact that the z fighters don’t know what Goku looks like while powering up for Korin.
They all only feel his 50% ki, so for all they know, he could be bulking up like Trunks.
@@alandoan1640 no he already acknowledged that form was a insufficient waste of power while training with Gohan...thats why he thought of getting to a point to stay in ssj and it feel natural and to increase with even more power from already being in the ssj state
@ That’s not my point.
My point is that the Z fighters don’t see Goku power up to 50% for Korin.
So for all they know is that Goku’s ki rose to a point where it was shocking to them.
@@alandoan1640Vegeta had already commented that Goku had chosen the normal ssj transformation as an optimal transformation, even saying to trunks “has experience truly taught you nothing?” Basically saying that the bulk form is useless.
Just got to give you an idea on how strong ssj2 gohan is each of those cell jrs are like a dozen time stronger than namek saga goku and might be downplaying them. Grade 2 Vegeta even before the hyperbolic time chamber is far stronger than semi perfect cell who is 2 to 3x stronger than imperfect cell due to android 16 punch literally having no affect on him. and 16 was relative to first form cell. and imperfect cell is definitely 2x stronger than super powerful Piccolo who far surpasses goku and Vegeta as super Saiyans who are a far strongee that what they were on namek. and gohan just kicks through them like butter literally.
Also for people who think grade3 stronger or as strong as ssj 2 Gohan they forget that cell also has access to grade 3 as well due to having Saiyan cells the cell before the cell games in his buffed form frightened grade 3 trunks and was much stronger than him. which makes sense because cell normal state is far stronger than grade 2 trunks. and cell uses grade 3 on his full power state against Gohan and Gohan punched cell so hard that he vomited android 18. Making him atleast two times stronger. it's clear who has more raw power as much as i like trunk's Gohan would slaughter trunks and possibly kill him with one punch. This shouldn't even be a debate.
I think with SSJ2, Goku would definitely be strong enough to beat Perfect Cell, especially since even though Goku doesn't get the same rage boost as Gohan, being enraged make him stronger as well.
But yeah Goku would lose to Super Perfect Cell
Yep
stay off drugs goku would definitely win vegeta said goku was stronger than gohan
Exactly ss2 is an overkill against cell regardless the user
@@keevoj5509….are you talking about buu saga goku, the same one that has been training intensely for SEVEN years? Think about that for a second
@@keevoj5509 the smartest dbz fan:
One thing about Sparking Zero that definitely irked me was this idea that Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 2 could've beaten Cell
No dog, pretty sure the only chance they had was Gohan beating Cell (though I will say, an Ssj2 Goku pulling off the instant Kamehameha might be enough to obliterate Cell)
Goku can also like...turn up wth a Spirit Bomb in his regular kid saiyan weak self from Dragon Ball.
Yeah, he can, cope
Its a video game and its literally a what if. Who tf cares bud
@@nineteen90z Fair - could for sure work, but Cell isn't Kid Buu or Freeza - he's not gonna sit there to let Goku gather that energy because he doesn't know the technique (he mentions being able to use it himself) or have the ability to sense energy (or have the attention span of a house fly like Kid Buu)
The real question is if Cell knows all of their techniques why didn't he try to use the Kaioken against Gohan?
(The answer is most likely "Toriyama forgot" but it's fun to think about)
@@TrickiousRickious Cell is just as dumb as Kid Buu & Frieza (let Gohan become enraged, gave them time to train for a useless tournament exercise but that's storytelling for you) plus no way in hell can he muster up a S.Bomb, requires a pure heart. He might have Goku's dna but the rest of the genetic make-up is no way pure...Frieza, Vegeta, Piccolo etc.
If Goku stacked mastered Ssj and Kaio-Ken I think he’d stand a decent chance if he thought of it.
Mastered Ssj has no drawback anymore at this point so any KK multiplier higher than x2 or x3 would probably be around Gohan Ssj 2 with a rage boost.
He couldn't use kaio ken at the time, because super saiyan's violent nature disrupted the concentration/calm mind you needed to control your ki with kaio ken. That's why Goku got fucked up so bad when he used ssblue with it in super.
@@therebelofchaos1674 they used SSJ as a base form, showing their mastery and calm over it
He would have oneshotted Cell and then he would have died himself
@@TheEmeraldSplooshthe transformation is still ineffective super anime explains why he could do it with Blue even tho it’s not manga canon and definitely not Toriyama canon. it’s still a fair argument given the fact kaioken is still an technique of not only you getting a ki enhancement but your body as well takes a toll from it. the toll of ssj and kaioken would do on the body would probably be enough to potentially kill Goku. Only time you ever see it used is in the Pikkon vs Goku filler arc but Goku is dead at that point so it makes sense he doesn’t have a physical body to actually “destroy” but it’s anime only so yeah.
THIS is a good matchup, why hasn't this been discussed before? I like the way you think! Subbed.
It is a simple answer though. Goku slams mid diff
*Goku wasn’t stronger than Grade 3 Trunks. He was faster & could maintain his strength longer without being drained. Cell was at the same level in the Cell Games as he was against Trunks he only used more in the Cell games cause he needed to because he fought a much more COMPETENT fighter in Goku.*
I think SSj2 Goku would win because he is a better fighter, Cell even after ramping up didnt one shot Goku because Goku was on the edge all the time ,sure CEll wasnt worried because he has a ton of power left so its doesnt matter.
Goku's specialty is getting the upper hand on his opponent during fights cause he is used to fight enemies stronger then himself and rage boost wasnt a thing back then , Gohan is noted to have high jumps in power but he isnt as good as Goku when it comes to fighting on the same power or stronger then himself.
When? He was always strong we than his opponents...
In z at least
He beat nappa with Kai ken not strategy
He beat Vegeta with teamwork
Not one on one skill
Teen Goku was stronger this most of his opponents in early DB he just used tricks cuz he was. Silly monkey in a gag comic
His raw power in boy body was funny, and yet he also did funny moves
But he could just pulled a"serious z Goku face and punched them into oblivion"
He's always been strong
He never was the I use skill to fight stronger guys he was the I train hard to learn skills and become strong
Yes he uses skill in fights to show. He a martial artists
But he often wins Thru muscle cuz it shows his gains and is satisfying for the audience that way
Goku didnt fight to his limit as ssj. Compare his fight with frieza and vegeta. Goku was absolutely tearing apart, vs cell, he wasnt nearly as damaged, not even close.
SSJ2 GOKU during cell gamws is stronger than you think. While Gohan had a rage boost. Goku has an EXPERIENCE boost. Hes far more talented than anyone in the planet with martial arts, gohan is nowhere close in experience. Not onle is Goku stronger, all his martial arts movements are also amping the eficiency of his SSj2 power. An SSJ2 goku also means more emotional intensity so he would be angrier, fueling him.
Well said ❗️❗️
Goku couldn't go to his limit against an opponent with regeneration, differently from cell any damage he takes is permanent so he has to be more careful and wait for opportunities
"Didn't fight to his limit" so y all gonna ignore the fact that he was SWEATING AND EXHALING after throwing the instant Kamehameha and ki barrage he did against cell? The same Cell said Goku was on the verge of losing focus lmao y all goku glazers don't even watch the show or read the manga. You didn't even manage to pull a freaking coehrent argument besides saying dumb stuff that a 5-year-old brat would say to their friends who watch super heroes movies. This is why y all as a fandom are a joke
not to mention goku almost defeated cell even just with regular super saiyan with his instant kamehameha (though if not for plot it really should have defeated cell since it vapourized his upper half including his core). with ssj2 he would be able to pull off a lot more stunts and to a greater degree
Bro, cell inherited all the Z fighters experience, gero planted into him
I like how you mentioned the fact Cell's power up was like Gohan's was him being SSJ2, thats what I've always thought as one of yhr differences of SSJ2 compared to SSJ is the sparks, which cell gains after his explosion along with his massive zenkai boost
At this time, I’d say Goku would still lose but it would make a much better fight. Gohan not only has the ssj2 multiplier, but the rage boost as well
Goku and vegeta at the start of buu saga were already much stronger than Gohan from Cell games
@ I was thinking of Goku at the cell games turning ssj2, I actually haven’t had a chance to watch the vid yet.
ssj2 Buu saga Goku vs SPC would be a 🔥
Rarely Goku wasn’t even close to putting cell to use 50%
@@reynoldnjoku9735 I agree or at best 60% You know, I’ve always loved powerscaling and I wonder how things would have play out with Gohan ssj2 (without rage boost) vs SPC
Are you nuts? Goku in the buu saga when he went ssj3 was training the whole time after the cell arch. He's way stronger than ssj3 Gohan from cell saga by then buddy. You must be super young and not know a whole lot about dragon ball lol
Bruh, SSJ2 Goku claps Cell so fast it ain’t even funny nor fair. Trouble is, Goku ain’t a killer. He’d probably let Cell go. lol
Goku simps would read through an arc where the message is about Gohan succeeding Goku and conclude that Goku would be able to fight Cell anyways. Truly the peak of media literacy.
If Goku got basically the same boost in power that Gohan got after he got angry then yes, Goku would do the exact same thing as Gohan.
@@WestonMeyer-n6x It's only a yuuki (courage) boost. Gohan got both yuuki and shouki (right-mindedness). Plus, Gohan has more potential; Goku said as much. Gohan wasn't even impressed by Goku and Cell's fight, and he lacked both the right mindset and the rage that he had against Cell as an SSJ2.
@@InfernoCleric384
Rage got Gohan from SS1 to SS2.
If Goku got to SS2 then he has made up the difference somehow and his power is comparable to SS2 Gohan’s and therefore capable of destroying Cell.
The problem is that you are overestimating Cell, he is not capable of fighting a SS2 at full power, that is the power up designed by Toriyama to destroy Cell(even his final revived form).
@@WestonMeyer-n6x "Rage got Gohan from SS1 to SS2. If Goku got to SS2 then he has made up the difference somehow and his power is comparable to SS2 Gohan’s and therefore capable of destroying Cell."
Gohan needed rage to get motivated. Without his rage, he couldn't properly access his shouki (right-mindedness), so his rage unlocked both. Goku already has the right mindset, so rage wouldn't give him as great a boost. Also just because you have a transformation doesn't mean you're as strong as someone else with the same transformation. Boo saga Goku and Vegeta (with 7 years of training!) were slightly stronger than CG Gohan (implied to be when he unleashed the FSK), after all.
"The problem is that you are overestimating Cell, he is not capable of fighting a SS2 at full power,"
As I said previously, "SSJ2 tier" is not a thing. Cabba as an SSJ2 is different from Gohan as an SSJ2.
Honestly, let's do some scaling and see how strong Cell would be:
-SSJ1 Gohan, while totally unmotivated to fight, was still unimpressed by full power MSSJ Goku vs Cell, implying that he could exceed both of them in power. Let's say that he was about 1.2x their strength.
-SSJ1 Gohan then got a rage boost, which impressed Cell. I'm pretty sure he also uses his "real speed" as well. Let's say that this was a x1.5 boost.
-Then, Gohan gets SSJ2, getting a rage boost. However, since Cell believed that his full power could still challenge Gohan, it's likely that initial SSJ2 Gohan was far, far lower than what he could actually do. Let's say that he's about x2 light rage boost SSJ1 Gohan, who was likely already above SSJ1 Goku by a good amount.
All of those multipliers were lowballed and unofficial, and even then, Goku would need to get a rage boost that would almost double his strength just to match FP Perfect Cell.
Since you claimed that SSJ2 as a transformation was meant to utterly destroy even SPC, let's do some more scaling!
-Cell, who believed that his full power could challenge initial SSJ2 Gohan, gets utterly washed, resulting in him using SSJ Grade 3. That's considered a x10 multiplier by some guide I forgot the name of, which makes sense, since you're forcefully pushing out as much ki as possible. Gohan demolishes that Cell as well, shredding his defenses as well as outrunning him (probably holding back there as well). Thus, Gohan should be about x20 above FP Perfect Cell.
-SPC then claims that he's gained a power-up "like Son Gohan". You can see this as him getting SSJ2 himself (thus nullifying your argument about SSJ2) or him gaining power similar to what Gohan showed him (hence his confidence). I believe both, so SPC should be equal to the Gohan (probably holding back, but still) that took him down before.
That's a bare minimum x20 boost on top of the x1.8 that we already established, meaning that on top of SSJ2, Goku would at least need *x36 more power* in order to challenge SPC. Do you think some yuuki could offer him that, especially considering that Gohan had far more potential than Goku?
No one said it was close.
Goku ssj2 > teen Gohan ssj 2 > Super Perfect Cell
Ur so wrong! Gohan thought his dad held back! Cuz he was weaker! Than Gohan!
You don't know nothing about dragon Ball z to say super Saiyan 2 goku lose or even struggle is crazy not only he's stronger but he will Molly wop cell your opinion is incorrect go watch dragon Ball z before you say something silly like that
@@onedopegamer 😭
@DetBird all I'm just saying is know what you're talking about before you say something
@ it’s ironic really, you’ve put 0 thought into what you’re saying. Just because Goku uses super saiyan 2 doesn’t mean he’s above cell. You have NO argument, your response is “ofc he’ll win”. It’s quite pathetic really
@@DetBird that's crazy you clearly don't know how things work in dragon Ball z go watch it before you even have an argument then come back when you learn something 😺
@ sure I’ll wait patiently for your argument
The ssj and ssj2 multipliers are a lot higher than people know. Grade 1 is 50x
Grade 2 is a huge Amp
Grade 3 has guides that say it's 10x ssj
Grade 4 is even stronger and faster
Grade 5 is 2x Grade 4
Ssj3 is 4x Grade 5
grade 2 and 3 are different from grade 5 and ss2 (this got changed later so ig back then you would be right)
rn grade 1 and grade 4 have same multiplier with just having better ki control whereas grade 5 is just a new level of ssj which has NO relation with grade 2 and 3 multipliers (which is essentially just buffing your body up with ki to increase the strength)
@aryanGamin25 everything you said is made up. The japanese translation for the multipers refers to grades and not super sayian. It says ssj2 is 2x grade 4,
Grade 4 is way stronger than grade 3. With your logic, vegeta would be stronger than goku and grade 3 would be stronger than ssj2 that makes no sense and the series directly says 2x grade 4
They have guides that says grade 3 is 10x normal ssj, so is grade 3 5x stronger than grade 5 but just slower? Come on bro you're wrong at least send a link to whatever made you say that
@aryanGamin25 goku and vegeta are relative in base before the time chamber vegeta spends the mass majority of his time working on his base form and ssj
Goku spends all of his time working on getting Gohan to super saiyan. Once obtained they stayed in super saiyan for the vast remainder of the time in there.
Whis says the fastest way to get stronger is to improve your base and not transform. Vegeta was working on his base most of the time while goku worked on the grade 1 ssj. How is goku monsterously stronger than grade 2 vegeta if gokus base didn't improve as much as vegetas? Hell they have guided comparing base goku and base vegeta at the end of the cell games. Grade 4 is a monster Amp closer to 500 to 1000x ssj
The anime continuity is a stomp
SSJ1 Goku was comparable to Pikkon who while holding back blitzed and twoshot Cell who was stated to be far stronger than he was when alive.
tbf tho cell didnt expect it (atleast from the look of his face) and then pikkon didnt land another blow so we dont know for sure (then again thats cuz cell didnt even try fighting back)
gotta say tho the anime has lot of wrong stuff when it comes to power scaling
You saying sperfect cell was anywhere near ssj2 gohans power is just false imo.
Cell got clapped by a 50% power ssj2 gohan in a beam struggle (i know he got a bit of help, but still 50% clapped super perfect cells 100%!).
One hand at that. Cell got one hit slap by pikkon who got beaten by SSJ Goku.
Ssj2 teen Gohan vs cell wasn’t close either so it’s safe to say ss2 vs cell isn’t close lol, anybody at ssj2 would wax him
It’s like people don’t realize SS2 was the key to killing Cell just like SS1 was the key to killing Frieza.
Goku relied on Gohan way too much considering he got beat by a weaker 17 and 18 in a distant future. He should have trained with Vegeta
Thus the hyperbolic time chamber training and beating Cell. Poof. Weak Gohan fixed. You ever think Goku was pushing Gohan so hard for this exact purpose, to avoid that fate?
That's because Gohan doesn't have a Master in Future because everyone know Gohan potential are bigger than Goku and Vegeta potential.
Great video a lot of fans don’t understand how potent gohan’s rage boost was on top of his ssj2 transformation. It took goku and vegeta 7 years of training to close the gap. A cell saga ssj 2 goku wouldn’t be a fraction of gohan’s power.
ssj2 is still ssj2 your hilarious if u think Goku wouldn't be on par
@ you’re* but yeah I could see him being on par but I don’t think he’d win
@@mystic_bladez8215 Lol its ssj2 not max out ssj this is Goku we're talking about ...i know he would win
@Jason5818UI so ss2 goku in the the buu saga is equal to ss2 goku in the tournament of power. Got it
@@Luke973T who said it was? What are u talking about?
If it's Cell Games Goku , then he loses against Cell sadly
Not if he is SS2
Would love to see flashbacks of Goku unlocking ssj2 in the afterlife
I honestly feel like things would get worse. Let’s say during his fight with Gohan cell actually kills Gohan before 16 could intervene. Goku goes ssj2, I feel like Goku would most likely want to humiliate cell similar to how he did fireza. Cell would most likely take the chance to self-destruct. Goku would sacrifice himself just like the main timeline. But then super perfect cell shows up with no Goku or gohan to stop him. Maybe handing cell that senzu wasn’t so bad after all.
Goku knows not to do that. He usually learns from his mistakes.
@ he did hand Moro a senzu despite how seeing how much it back fired with cell. Not saying goku doesn’t learn from his mistakes at all. But when he’s in rage he can be pretty reckless. And there’s no way he won’t be mad after seeing cell brutally kill Gohan.
@ If anything, Goku was being merciful with Moro, following the Galactic Patrol's ideas of imprisonment and his own morals. It's more akin to the Freeza situation than Cell.
Goku wouldn't do that with Cell, though. People oftentimes neglect to mention the reason why Goku was perfectly willing to murder Cell, but it's because he already knows that Cell won't honor a deal; look at how he killed the military guys after promising not to kill any innocents.
Plus, after Freeza, Goku never outright tortures anybody out of sadism. He's flubbed up a few situations, but those were more out of sport and general incompetence than deliberate cruelty. SSJ Goku on Namek was probably when he was the most unnatural in comparison to his usual demeanor; in Japanese, he literally changes his dialect.
@ I guess your right, I just feel like cell has a lot more chances. Plus if goku really would try to kill him, Goku wouldn’t know of cells nuclease and cell would gain a zenkai, I might be stretching it tho. Could really go either way. I just feel like there’s a lot of opportunity’s cell could take with Goku in rage.
@@ThePerfectMenace Oh, sure. Goku isn't getting past SPC, even if he does defeat FP Perfect Cell. Super Perfect Cell was equal to the same Gohan that defeated FP Cell's Power Weighted form, meaning he at least got a 10 times boost.
Bruh if we are talking about Perfect cell before revival he is getting the ssj2 gohan treatment and even goku knew cell had to die so i don't see him playing around that insta kamehameha will have been a go to for the kill and im sure cell ain't surviving that
@@aitorchul2262 thank u Goku aint toying with his opponents hes going for the kill ...cell got stronger because of Goku having to save everyone due to Gohans negligence
SS2 Goku >> SS1 Goku > Pikkon no weights > Pikkon weights >> Super Perfect Cell
No I don’t agree. Goku simply did reach that high in power that time & cell & Goku were stronger. But if Goku had more time to train, he could become stronger & strongest. His SS2 would be stonger than Gohan,s SS2.
saying "if" doesn't mean that he does
Gohan was literally stated to be stronger than goku
this is like saying what if goku trained a little more before cell this is a completely different conversation
Vegeta enraged at ssj1 his cell at his return with a good shot aftwr trunks died. Lol that was just ssj1 yet yall saying ssj2 goku can't is insane. 😂
You're acting like the Ki blast did any damage, it was simply a distraction. SSJ2 Goku would beat Perfect Cell but a Super Perfect Cell would wreck an SSJ2 Goku considering a Mastered SSJ Goku was still weaker than Perfect Cell.
@rbacon8922 gohan was weaker then cell. Duh. That's why he needed ssj2. Yall make no sense. Everything was weaker then cell. Gohan or goku stood no chance against cell untill ssj2.
You definitely didn't see the episode when truks explained aftwr he died they told him.vegeta attacked cell.....then they said that was one of the best attacks that hit cell. Cell briefly struggled with the attack because vegeta was enraged. Just like gohan when he gets mad. Even ssj2 vegeta enraged against beersu was stronger then ssj3 briefly.
So a ssj2 goku or gohan would destroy cell it don't matter which one because they both were strong enough.
Cell power dropped alot after goku fight which is why goku gave him a bean. Ssj2 goku would crush cell.
@ Vegeta's strongest hit on Cell was the final flash. That blast that he did was just plain yapping from Trunks. If Cell wasn't beam struggling against 1 armed SSJ2 Gohan, the attack would've been tanked. Literally, again the blast was a distraction. The damage it did to cell was not significant enough.
Cell's power dropped after fighting Goku but he was still strong enough to go toe to toe with SSJ Gohan because he had power restored. Again, Goku only lasted that long because of Skills, hence a hypothetical SSJ2 Goku wouldn't beat a Super Perfect Cell. Because Goku wouldn't have a rage boost, NOR potential close to Gohan's hence why Goku made Gohan fight Cell. That's the whole point of him putting his faith into Gohan because he was aware of Gohan's potential to become the strongest of them all. Goku isn't a dumby or atleast not in Z before super. Super Perfect Cell beats a cell saga SSJ2 Goku, its as simple as that. You're talking as if Gohan going SSJ2 automatically made him above Cell when from the get go when he had a rage boost and tapped into his hybrid potential hence why even a Super Perfect Cell was beam struggling with a kid using 1 arm.
Goku weak deal with it
@@bombyo3634ss2 isn't that big of a boost also if Gohan stood no chance that would make Goku stupid...
Goku can't predict ss2
He would only think at best Gohan had a rage boost
And he didn't want Gohan to rage outhe wanted Gohan to beat up cell.
Like normal people would
Also! He gave cell a senzu
Are..did u watch or read the show/book
He had already did it and he hints at it many times throughout those episodes..
The issue was he came to the conclusion that he was bringing the constant threats and he's not going to live forever..
This officially was Akira Toriyama trying to pass the torch to Gohan..
And I know what you're going to say "oh that can't be true because he fell to a cell Junior.."
I'll give you one clue and only one for everything to even out..
Goku said and i quote "the transformation comes from a need and not a want.."
The situation had to be desperate which was a bad f****** idea, but that's just what it was..
First video watching you
Love you content
Dbz my favorite anime amazing channel bro
@@camronjohnson8363 appreciate it, I’m doing more content weekly now so stick around if you like it
Cell also has Piccolo's cells so he definitely did/does mine training during the 10 days before the Cell games.
once he reached the UI, even his base form can take on entry SS2 level saiyans...
I ultimately think that if Goku had achieved super saiyan 2 during the Cell Games, he would definitely be stronger than Perfect Cell, and possibly be stronger than Super Perfect Cell, even if only by a narrow margin.
nah
Not at all. Gohan thought goku going as hard as he can was playing around with cell. There's a huge difference in power between goku
Exactly it wouldn't make sense if he wasn't
@@godetti9839 why wouldn't it make sense?
@@blackwhitestudios5953 But couldn't "to play around" mean using like 60% or even 75% of one's power (depending on how comfortable a person is with the use of his own full power)? Vegeta in Freeza Saga was obliterating people over whom he had a narrower than 25% margin of power level advantage, wasn't he? If Gohan thought Goku were at 75%, a potential SSJ2 would be 150% as strong as Gohan's estimative of Goku's maximum SSJ power; if 60%, that would be 120%. Couldn't a Goku with those power levels have any chance against Perfect Cell?
Based on the fight SS1 Goku was clearly weaker than Cell. I do not think there was a considerable difference between the power Cell was using and SS1 Goku. Goku was still able to keep up and swap blows. Though, Cell after the two had used every technique in their arsenal was less danaged. Which shows Cells durability was greater than Gokus if you factor in regeneration into the mix. However, I do believe Goku was more durable if you do not factor the ability to regrow body parts into the equation. With Goku basically being 1 tier below Cell. I can confidently say he would be able to defeat Cell while he was using the power displayed while fighting Goku. However, his max power was still superior to a hypothetical SS2 Goku. I even believe Cell at max power was still above SS2 Gohan. Without the assistance from Goku his son Gohan would have lost the beam struggle.
lol is this SIX other channel
And that's not even considering the fact that Goku knew he had reached a limit that wasn't going to be broken any time soon. Gohan really was our only chance
a couple things:
1. el manga legendario says that ssj grade 4 is 10x base ssj
2. ssj2 gohan potentially also had a rage boost, which makes sense because gohan only getting 2x stronger doesn't explain the immense growth (cell was still holding back vs ssj gohan, then he powered up significantly to full, and still got 2 tapped)
Yeah but Gohan held back too..
Gohan would be much stronger than cell and still need a rage boost cuz..
He isn't a fighter
He hates fighting
Rage makes it okay, but makes him aggroannt
Yeah, SSJ2 Goku would rekt Perfect Cell
Cell was using 50% of his power when fighting against full power super saiyan Goku. Goku only lost due to stamina drain. They were pretty much equal throughout that fight. If Goku were to obtain super saiyan 2, then he would be exactly 2x stronger than 50% cell since they were equal prior to Super Saiyan 2, which also means that full power cell would be equal to super saiyan 2 Goku since 100% cell is also twice as strong as 50% cell. Super saiyan 2 seems to have greater stamina than super saiyan 1 does, so Goku should be able to win that fight with extreme difficulty, but hes not winning against* super perfect cell💀
Super sayian 1 Goku =< 50% perfect cell
Super saiyan 2 Goku >= 100% Perfect Cell
Super Sayian 2 Goku
Stamina means nothing also, it doesn't it has less stamina actually.
Higher power level means stamina cux ur stronger everywhere but for everyone...
Ss1 could last 1000 punches
Ss2 could give 2000
A powerful being at ss2 does the same 2000 punches
Minus!
Ss2 drains whatever energy is used for super siayan as a whole
Clearly fighters can use energy post super Saiyan
But it's less
There a limit to how long the form lasts
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 aren't forms but gardens of super Saiyan
2 drains u and 3 even more so
So by that logic ss2 Goku would be less stamina not more
Let alone if they were equals...
Cell has Regen
Cell clears
@massmurdertron51 there's three instances in the show that prove you wrong. When ssj2 gohan launched a Kamehameha wave at perfect Cell's Kamehameha wave during their first clash ( if you can even call it that), gohan had plenty of energy to spare afterwards. Vegeta even mentions that gohan had increased energy reserves because of his new form. The 2nd one that proves you wrong is goku vs Caulifla and kale. Goku had hardly no energy left after his fight against Jiren, but he still was able to climb up his transformations, which further proves that higher transformations can give you more stamina. The last instance is goku vs Frieza. Goku seemed to be out of breath towards the end of the fight (before super saiyan), but once he turned super 1, he longer was out of breath. You can interpret that as him restoring his stamina if you like, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was fighting Frieza longer while he was super saiyan than when he was in base.
Higher Fusion transformations and super 3 are the only known transformations that give less stamina.
Stamina absolutely matters. Goku vs cell, Vegeta vs android 18 and many others is proof that it does.
Ssj2 Goku > 100% Perfect Cell
And For goku to obtain ssj2, he would have to train with Vegeta so he'd be able to focus more on himself than someone else, which means ssj2 Goku would be way stronger than 100% perfect cell.
Yup, actually when Goku asked master Karim to judge if he would be able to beat cell, Gohan was not impressed at all
This video made me think, what if perfect cell reabsorbed 18?
Would there be any change? power boost?
or even a power reduction?
I love these kinds of videos please do one on Android Saga(before training in the hyperbolic time chamber and before fusing with Kami) piccolo versus trunks please?!
@@Bowmacho will do, adding it to the list
@@DetBirdPiccolo wins via skill, and abilities
I had thought upon rewatching recently that they actually made it pretty clear that Perfect Cell was stronger than Goku period. Goku wouldn’t put his son in that position had he been able to do the job himself, despite what some bandwagoners say.
If Goku trained an additional year in the time chamber to unlock SSJ2, I see him winning without too much difficulty. But at Goku's canon level of power in the Cell games, it would be a very hard fight to win, and Goku has a good chance of losing. At worst, it plays out like a more intense version of the actual Goku vs Cell fight with the same outcome (even giving Cell the senzu bean...). If Goku started as SSJ1 and then went SSJ2 to catch Cell off guard with a flurry of offense, he may damage Cell enough to even the odds before Cell can reach max power. Given how cocky Cell is, he may take SSJ2 lightly before getting smacked around for a bit. If Cell's forced to regenerate, Goku already stated that Cell's power would drop as a result of regeneration too. On that note, the instant-transmission kamehameha would be WAY more powerful, and there's a chance Goku could destroy 100% of Cell's body, though that'd be very lucky. The issue with all of this is Goku wasn't fighting to win at all costs, just to show Gohan how Cell fights. So Goku probably wouldn't use any underhanded tricks like hiding SSJ2 to get a surprise advantage. He'd challenge Cell to go full power and duke it out, likely with bad results.
I'll forever stick to my head canon of Goku being about to go SSJ2 against Cell but choosing not to so Gohan could prove himself.
SSJ2 Goku would've most likely been 15-20% or so weaker than Gohan, who in turn completely dominated Perfect Cell. I'd expect a similar gap between Android 16 and 18 for SSJ2 Goku and Perfect Cell. I personally don't believe in rage boosts that can be maintained for more than short-lived bursts. If Gohan had had some sort of a long-term rage boost, he sure didn't have it against Super Perfect Cell, not to mention he was injured, and he still somehow won in the end. That would either imply that the zenkai Cell had was minimal, or the SSJ2 multiplier should be 3x minimum otherwise the theory just has no credence. I'm going to double down on the assertion that SSJ2 is 2x, and Cell got a sizeable boost to his power (around 50%).
it would have been an amazing fight, the likes that are very very close like Piccolo vs Goku, where either fighter could realistically win and it comes down to skill and improv and not just an overwhelming power level gap stomp
Cell could do that and have Regen..
Cell let Goku hurt home cuz he knew he was stronger if he needed to go all out
If it was all out
Cell would kill. Goku
Without Regen
With Regen
The fight isn't close
To best a regenerator u need to have a more then a close gap u need a huge one
@@massmurdertron51 true otherwise goku could have already beaten kid buu after he started trying
Ssj 2 goku would beat perfect cell but would lose to super perfect cell. If Goku was that much weaker than cell his mastered ssj wouldn't have given him such a good fight. Just because everyone was shocked at cells power doesn't meant he was that much stronger than goku. Remember during the frieza saga how terrified of vegeta dodoria was. Vegeta was only 24,000 while dodoria was i believe 21 or 22,000.
It depends on the continuity. In the anime Gohan tanked a Tri beam from the Cell juniors. We all know how strong the tri beam is (Tien vs Semi Perfect Cell).
The difference between Tien & Cell would be atleast a 1000 so SSJ2 Gohan should easily be around 2000 times stronger than Goku.
@Top_E_OfficialThat was a rage amped Gohan so it's obv his rage would be that powerful. Good catch though
Also Tien was using a Neo-Tri beam not just the standard tri beam.
@Top_E_Official numbers pulled out of thin air. 2000? SSJ2 is a 2x multiplier
@theiceman7590 Gohan also got a dormant power unlock. I can explain detail why I have these answers but that would be too long. Maybe someday I will make video on it.
Actually, if Goku was able to achieve SSJ2 he’d be a bit more powerful since he’s older than Gohan. Officially, Gohan had the power level of 5-billion when in the Super Saiyan 2 form. And Super Perfect Cell is at that power level as well when he returned from death after blowing himself up.
tf are you talking about? we dont even have power levels after frieza saga (closest thing we got back was kili or whatever used by babidi)
also if you are about to reference a guidebook dont cuz they are inconsistent too when it comes to dbz (mainly due to anime and manga differences)
If Gohan had the same power level as Cell when he revived then Gohan would not have defeated Cell with one arm.
@@aryanGamin25 a quick Google search is your friend.
Goku wouldn't win with SSJ2 but it WOULD be closer than you'd think. Unless you give him mastered or at least as much as in the Buu Saga then he can win.
Bro are you completely stupid cell used almost all his power in the fight and you going to tell me that Goku being 150 times stronger wouldn't win your smoking crack
Goku gave up the fight because Akira passed the torch to Gohan here which was a bad idea. Pretty much simple he was trying to find a way to take Goku out of the picture.
cell went full because he was forced to do so by Gohan and other warriors reacted at 100 % cell with goosebumps because they realized how much more they were outclassed and how much more cell was holding back but still Gohan outclassed them all
Gohan also had rage amps besides just being stronger than Goku while in a calm state.
Goku SSJ: 15,000,000,000
Gohan SSJ: 20,000,000,000
Hypothetical SSJ2 Cell Games Goku: 30,000,000,000
Enraged SSJ Gohan: 27,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 54,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 56,000,000,000
*multiple guides and statements suggest he surpassed him initially
SSJ2 Gohan(One arm/Demoralised): 26,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan(Full Power): 57,000,000,000
Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku: 60,000,000,000
I think Goku was more relative to Cell than you think. After their fight, Cell was slightly winded, while Goku still had enough strength to more or less fight on par with the Cell Jrs (who themselves are no slouches in power either). So while Cell was clearly a lot stronger, especially after showing his actual full power, I don't think he would have been over twice as strong as SSJ grade 4 Goku.
And on the topic of Cell's full power, while it is indeed a power-up that left the rest of the Z Fighters dazed, I don't think it would have been enough to beat even a suppressed SSJ2 Gohan. Cell thinks he could have competed, but remember that Cell also then goes on to buff himself up and make himself completely unable to ever land a single hit on Gohan. Once he starts being taken apart, he stops thinking quite as well and more so starts hoping.
How I'd rank the main Cell Game fighters would then be:
SSJ2 Gohan > SPC > Suppressed SSJ2 Gohan > Theoretical SSJ2 Goku >= Full Power Perfect Cell > Start of the Cell Games Cell > SSJ Gohan > SSJ Goku.
Though even then, SSJ2 Goku matching Cell's Full Power still bodes poorly for him, since Cell's bag would be a lot deeper + Cell has insane durability and regen. Super Perfect Cell would also still absolutely fold SSJ2 Goku, and imo even a theoretical Super Kaioken 2 Goku would lose against him.
What we know is that SSJ1 Grade 4 Goku was equal to or in the same general tier of Perfect Cell. Cell just doesn’t get tired so he wore Goku down until Goku realized he couldn’t take him out permanently and wound inevitably lose, but that since Gohan had SSJ2 locked away somewhere, he could beat Cell.
Point being, Goku going SSJ2 during the Cell battle would mean he’d easily wipe the floor with Cell, being at least twice as strong (power levels are weird because it seems to scale somewhere between linearly and exponentially) but with a clear mind to wipe him out. He wouldn’t be as powerful as Gohan since he wouldn’t have the rage boost but he could still manhandle Cell and without being beholden to passionate emotions, Goku would take Cell out before he could think to self destruct.
There is no rage boost multiplier
Once Gohan hits SS2 he is using the full extent of his power because of the rage.
Nah bro, SSJ2 Goku would beat Perfect Cell easily. I don’t even see how you can make the statement he wouldn’t be able to.
It’s Goku if he went SSJ2 in the cell games
@@nathansilla3283yeah, and Goku would still be stronger than Cell during the cell games. Gohan completely outclassed Cell as a SSJ2 and Goku wasn’t that much weaker than Gohan in their base forms.
@JusBross Perfect cell maybe, but when he returned from the kamikaze, nuh uh. One beam blast from celll severely injured Gohan, and he only won the beam struggle due to his hidden power, and with the help of the z fighters.
@@punctualkarma1557 you’re right. Goku wasn’t stronger than Super Perfect Cell until he went SSJ2 in the Buu Saga after 7 years.
@@JusBross "wasnt that much weaker".... really? A supressed ssj gohan felt his dad wasnt going all out with cell despite goku admitting that he indeed was. Cell was holding back both against goku and gohan until after gohan went ssj2 and 1 shotted the cell jrs (mind you they are stated to be on par with perfect cell). Whats even crazier is that when cell powered up to full power everyone was astonished that cell still had this much power left in the tank... except for gohan.
Interesting. We know that at the beginning of the Buu saga Gohan has grown weaker in the preceding years as he struggles against Dabura who I'm pretty sure it is said is as strong as Cell was during the Cell Games, now whether this is a strong as so called Super Perfect Cell is unclear. However Vegeta states at this time he could beat Dabura and presumably quite easily as well. Vegeta and Goku have both achieved SSJ2 at this point and their base forms are much higher than Gohans was during the Cell Games as they've been training for 7 years constantly so presumably Cell would be of no threat to either of them anymore. Interestingly Vegeta despite his SSJ2 achievement seems to still be (and he seems to know it) a bit weaker than Goku. When he gives into the Majin Vegeta form he increases his power to equal (although I think it is actually slightly higher) than Goku's SSJ2 form but of course Goku has SSJ3 in his back pocket. At any rate when Goku and Vegeta fight I believe it has been said they were both fighting at much higher power levels than SSJ2 Gohan and Cell were in their battle.
Goku didn’t give up because of what everyone including cell thinks. This was calculated for Goku.
I think most agree that ssj2 Goku would have beaten the brakes off of Cell but would ultimately lose if Cell regenerated.
No
The things I never really see mentioned here are two things: 1) No one is mentioning how Goku would ascend to SS2. That makes a big difference as you can apply a theoretical rage boost similar to Gohan's. If he unlocked the form in the TC, then he and Gohan would've stayed the full year in there to master the form.
2) I haven't seen any comments mentioning Zenkai. Cell for sure got stronger after Goku tossed him a Senzu. Are we talking before Cell had his health and energy fully restored? That's the only way to really compare Cell and Goku. Afterward, Goku was on the brink, and Cell was fully restored, plus some more. Are we giving them both Senzu? Probably not.
When Cell powered up to Gohan after getting rocked, he had already been restored to full health. He has all of the z fighters' DNA, as well as Radditz, Nappa, Frieza, and King Cold. Cell's potential is much greater than Gohan's, as we clearly saw after Goku's untimely demise.
I forgot gohan did slow kakarot down so kakarot had to sacrifice his own training gohan
i would say a ssj2 Goku would be stronger than cell before blowing himself up and the power boost from that regeneration. So if he were to take out cell entirely so that he does not regenerate Goku wins but if Cell regenerates to come back stronger and then he wins. I do think part of that is one detail you ignored, the sensu bean. Even holding back, Cell was getting fatigued during the fight with Goku and especially after having to regenerate from Goku blasting the upper half of his body off. While it may not have been the big boost he got from recovering after blowing himself up. I believe much of that hidden energy Cell didn't display early against Gohan was due to a power boost from the sensu bean.
Goku couldn't do that, cell can Regen without a head ...
U need to be massively stronger than a Regen person to kill them..Goku loses I'm sorry
Only fatigued cuz he held back and half his body went away...
He did it for fun but Regen costs u
Nail on namek remember
There is no reason for the headcannon the senzu powered him up other than for Goku to be his equal..
When the narrative goes out of its way to say Gohan is earths only hope
It's not compelling if Goku could done a ss2 and won.
So no cell just got his energy back ,no zenkai
@@massmurdertron51your basically taking back the whole exercise of this video with that claim. I definitely do not think trunks or vegeta would have won if they had been able to unlock ss2 at that moment. Maybe there is a difference in how much stronger we think gohan is to goku. The reason gohan is the hope is because goku knew gohan was far more likely to go ss2 in this fight. Gokus demeanor the whole fight would have needed to be more like it was against frieza than the laid back one he takes against cell. This to me is the biggest factor in his not being able to go ss2.
It’s possible Goku was hiding ss2 I can’t think of any scenario where Goku would not push himself to his max to ascend to the highest power possible and for gohan to reach ss2 and not Goku I just can’t imagine it…
3:40 no it isn't since Korin saw Cell vs Trunks and still hid his power according to Korin
Ssj2 goku wouldn, t be as strong as gohan but could still beat cells ass
Nah.
Back in that era of DB power levels were everything.
Perfect cell alone would destroy a hypothetical cell games ssj2 goku
Not even remotely.
Stop trying to downplay Goku and are you talking about buu arc SSJ2 Goku because he slams mid diff
He's talking about a hypothetical Cell Games Ssj2 Goku
cry
u obviously lack comprehension
Go back to school brother, because your reading comprehension is shit
U didn't watch it cry
Nah Super Perfect Cell slaps (goku absorbed) but base Perfect Cell is up for debate and I can see logic on both sides of the argument
No Gohan pushed Goku further than he could’ve pushed himself
SSJ2 Goku defeats Perfect Cell but loses to Super Perfect Cell
No.
He loses to both versions of cell
He easily defeats both.
We know it’s not close, no one thought it was
Are we all forgetting that goku also lost time to train Gohan meaning that if he actually took the time for himself, he probably could defeat cell
Yea but didn't Vegeta state in the Buu Saga prior to his fight with Goku at SSJ2 that they both were stronger than Gohan when he defeated Cell; I think it's safe to say that prior to Gohan's Z Sword training, only Goku and Vegeta were stronger than everyone from the Cell Saga.
People need to stop taking the Buu saga into account on this... The argument is whether SSJ 2 Goku would've stood a chance had he obtained the form in the Cell Games. This isn't like a New Game+ situation. And yes, I say people need to stop taking the Buu saga into account because you're at least the 5th person in this comments section who has brought up Buu Saga events
We never got to even see an uninjured SSJ2 Gohan vs Super Perfect Cell in a clean fight so for all we know Cell is still a tiny bit stronger than Gohan. If not stronger he still has regeneration so I think Cell would win against Gohan in a fair fight with no distractions.
It is stated that cell jrs are roughly as strong as cell by the daizenshuu 7, ssj2 gohan clears cell it’s not even slightly close. Also since his ki was half when he fights ssj2 cell (cell claims this in the manga) and still wins it implies that full power ssj gohan was stronger than perfect cell. Ssj2 goku clears perfect cell this isn’t a debate. He obviously loses to super perfect cell.
Lol the show already explained this with Vegeta stating Goku was stronger than Gohan when he fought cell.
Majin Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku. Not Cell Saga. Goku trained for 7 years so obviously SSJ2 Goku Majin Buu saga would be stronger than Gohan SSJ2 cell saga
I dont think goku would beat full power perfect cell in ssj2 cause they would be pretty close in power so completely evaporating cell is out of the question, resulting in super perfect cell anyways
The only time ss 2 goku beats cell if it’s after pikkon fight but before pikkon he definitely loses
Otherworld Tournament Arc isn’t canon
@ it is canon to me since it happened in z and not gt
@saulgoodmanskinwho cares about cannon lil bro? Toriyama himself stated that Dragonball is both Manga and Anime. You power scalers is pathetic😂
@@edogawaconan945 Uhm, canon just means “main continuity” essentially, which the video is discussing.
Nice projection though buddy. Definitely isn’t pathetic projecting and insulting a random comment over nothing on a damn Dragon Ball TH-cam “power-scaling” video
Maybe learn some self-awareness as you literally clicked on a versus video.
@@Cousinbiddy1 Z is canon to GT though. Z isn’t canon to the main continuity
SSJ1 Goku = SSJ1 Gohan in the Cell Saga since after Cell beats SSJ1 Gohan, he told SSJ1 Goku to eat a sensu and FIGHT HIM again. Why would Cell say that if SSJ1 Gohan was stronger? In Buu Saga, Goku can go SSJ2 and SSJ3, which reinforces the fact he his SSJ1 didn't get any stronger and was mastered back in the previous arc.
Before even watching this vid, I already know Vegeta needing the Majin multiplayer to even face Goku, proves that ‘Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku’ is minimum ~4x stronger than ‘Super Perfect Cell.’
Buu Saga (non-Majin) SSJ2 Vegeta is stronger than ‘Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan’ & Super Perfect Cell (+the father-son kamehameha),
but still only ‘rivaled’ SSJ2 Goku in their fight after receiving the Majin multiplayer.
Just lowballing & saying the Majin boost is a 2x multiplayer, proves ‘Buu Saga MSSJ Goku’ is enough to rival a non-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta,
& w/ SSJ2 being a stated 2x multiplayer from MSSJ, that makes SSJ2 Goku ~4x+ ‘Cell Games Gohan’ & Super Perfect Cell.
*Edit:* I typed all that sh*t b4 knowing this vid is ab a ‘SSJ2 Cell Games Goku’ 🙃
If we use the anime at no point until vs gohan did cell use his true power. We see this when he says he's going to and then his Aura changes to his golden "ssj" one.
what goku meant is i cant believe cell got stronger since the last time i saw him, which was his imperfect form. trunks asked him if he is really that strong. like too strong for goku to beat, because thats just how trunk's character is. grade 3 trunks is more powerful than goku, as stated by cell he is stronger than him but is too slow. still trunk's raw power is not too far above gokus but nothing compared to gohan. i would put him in between ssj2 gohan and goku closer to goku comparing all the fights. however cell mightve gotten a zenkai boost after vegeta and trunks fought him mainly because of vegetas final flash. i would actually put gohans ssj form in between grade 3trunks and ssj goku, as we saw gohan kick cell pretty hard. still just like goku he was no match for cells speed in ssj, but i feel like he caught on faster than goku. gohan is probably around 10-15% faster and stronger than goku in both of their ssj forms. yes he would obliterate cell. now if we want to talk about super perfect cell. it would be pretty close. and if cell was right saying he powered up like gohan and got a zenkai. goku just might be toast. sure gohan had his arm broken. first thing is, cell broke gohans arm with a blast enough for vegeta. it wasnt some full on blast. it was gohans rage that made him win the blast battle and help from others. if it played out as gohan dies against cell, getting his ribs crushed and goku took a sensu bean and went ssj2, he would obliterate cell. now if a scenario plays out to where cells core regenerates, and he comes back. goku would bat away cells beam shot for trunks. in his rage his senses are keen and is not taking any chances. cell would tell goku his core regenerates, and goku would tell him tthat it looks like he will make sure he obliterates him this time. then the battle ensues. gokus rage gives ssj2 a little boost too. but this goku is not messing around. with his techniques heatened and his senses, he outplays cell much like he started to in the beginning of the cell games, but more reminecsent of ssj2 gohan. he uses instant transmission very frequently as well. to finish off cell he hits him up, instant transmissions behind him bats him forward, instant transmissions again, cell swings, and goku used an after image, he hears goku say behind you, and turns around and looks up sees goku rushes towards him and swings, goku had used the after image again. all this time you can hear a feint ka me ha me, as goku was waay up in the sky where nobody could see him. he waited until cell swung at that last after image, before he teleported behind him, as he shouts LIMIT BREAAAK RRRAAAAAAAHHHHH
Some of you are getting confused he is saying what if goku turned ssj2 in the cell games not buu version but in the cell saga it’s obvious that ssj2 goku would beat perfect cell but not spc because his mastered ssj was not even enough to beat a 50% cell so imagine a full powered spc vs a ssj2 goku at the time cell would stomp
There is no real difference between a hypothetical SS2 Goku in the Cell Games and the SS2 Goku in the Buu Saga.
You have to cross a threshold in power to get SS2 and if Goku crossed it in the Cell Games then he is as powerful as the Goku who crossed it in the Buu Saga.
Ssj2 goku would beat perfect cell but would lost to super perfect cell. But if he had a rage boost , I think he’d be slightly better than super perfect cell
lets make this theory more complicated
cell has frieza's dna, while waiting cell did a little meditation as shown in the super, when frieza meditated in "hell" he has grown a lot stronger for the tournament arc, so cell got stronger by then lol
......that makes sense
tho i doubt they had this stuff in mind back then
@ yeah ure right, imma just making shift up haha
Ok y’all goku was not stronger until after death i do believe he could have won tho
Poor cell never stood a chance even powering like gohan. And it's crazy to think that even all what Gohan shown in the anime and and manga he still didnt show his full power. Gohan was unbeatable he was a Buu saga level at that time the only way he can be defeated through cheap shot lol
Since gohan was stated to be stronger than goku in base, so if goku pull all that effort into making gohan in base not even strong enough to defeat freiza to him becomjng stronger than goku, so if goku put all that training into himself i do think ssj2 goku can beat perfect cell
ok THAT makes sense (tho i think goku did all he could to train himself too iirc he even said that he had done all he could in the rosat to trunks and vegeta)
@aryanGamin25 it makes perfect sense he made someone weaker then freiza stronger than goku who defeated freiza so if goku put all that training into him he can become stronger than cell în ssj2 and probally lower
@ ok thats true (but i dont think we should compare how gohan grew with goku considering gohan had OVERWHELMING amount of potential and growth rate with lesser effort when compared to goku)
Ok your wrong because in one of the filler episodes Goku beat cell on his way to heaven
Goku ssj2 would be stronger than that, no because virginia or anyone says it, is just because goku would have to train more to get it, and no, the whole "training with a partner" bs dont change anything, goku didnt had anyone good to train with him in the otherworld, paikuhan is non canon, so the results of him training 7 days would be only weaker for the gravity x10, that is still enough to be stronger than cell and gohan ssj2
At that time base Goku was enough , let alone ss2
Warriors Z are lucky Cell doesn’t used the 10 days he give to them to train otherwise Cell would overcome even Goku SSJ3 easily after all Cell have Freeza cells.