Do Muscles Really Matter?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2024
- Chris and Macken Murphy discuss whether women are attracted to more muscular men or not. Do women like muscular men according to Macken Murphy? Why are women attracted to muscular men according to Macken Murphy?
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Every guy who had a glow up from a skinny/fat dude will tell you how women change their attitude and attention once you get in shape lol.
Definitely.
💯
100% dude :)
@@brianmeen2158what if your 5’7 and muscular will women respect you? But I think face is the most important factor
Absolutely.
My advice to all Men: Do not listen to what Women SAY, pay attention to their ACTIONS. They may say they like Dadbods but their actions speak otherwise 😂
I've never talked to a woman in real life who said they like dad bods.
Bruh you say that but literally say something that contradicts your own comment
@@xMckingwill Right😂, I think he was trying prove a point but messed up there
Part of this is explained by most women not understanding what a dad bod actually is. I think some women think that if a guy spends just a little bit of time in the gym, they will look muscular with just a bit of softness. Jason Mamoa was recently said to be rocking a dad bod after he put on a bit of fat. Still a flat stomach with a lot of muscle. For most guys that is years of hard training, and not even possible with below average genetics.
I think a lot of attraction is subconscious too. Women aren't seeing a dude and saying to themselves, I like that one because his shoulder to waist ratio is high lol. They see the whole guy, but don't recognize the attributes that makes them attracted.
Also, they for sure do on average like muscle. The most jacked dude I know showed me his hinge (could have been bumble) account and he had over 300 matches. This guy is clearly muscular (I've seen him deadlift 800 lbs, and strict overhead press 335 lbs, and he weighs like 225, so he is very lean). He isn't open bodybuilder in contest shape, but he is in the top 0.1% for being muscular and lean.
@@benpeterson7530 i agree the only thing i would change is that THEY DO understand the attributes that make them attracted. To the extent one can understand an irrational thing like attraction.
But yes women look at men as a whole where as men view women as parts
In general women like lean bodies above all
i think most women want some muscle, but not body builder levels of muscle.
Very true.
That is at least true for me. And, also for me, rather a man with some overweight with some muscles, than a skinny man without muscles. But that’s my preference - I don’t want my man to be overweight because of the negative impacts on health, but when it comes to what I find sexy, then rather a man that’s a little fat than thin. 🤷🏻♀️
I'd take a dad bod over bulky muscular any day
@@yukiminami9207 pretty much, yes.
Yep!
As a 6' male going from lean 175lbs to lean 248lbs, I can say this:
Between 200-220lbs of lean mass (below 10% body fat) women really like it. Once I got into the 235-250lb range some women started to shy away - too "scary"
Fear turns em on 😂❤
I mean it’s not like the stronger you get the more capable of overpowering them you are, so it’s more likely they are getting a self involved/narcissistic vibe. On the other hand there may be an element of them being afraid none of the other males in their life will be willing to stand up for her to you if it turns out you’re abusive.
@@brianmeen2158 Bingo! That much muscle actually means high-maintenance, because they're investing so much time into lifting/diet. Women want the fantasy of very fit, but they don't want to know any details or really be involved in the process. Us men treat women the same when it comes to make-up and grooming (waxing facial hair). We don't want to see it, but we do want it to happen.
248? Trening goes hard
@@danfontaine8179lol. The average man can turn the average woman into a pretzel without even trying.
So basically the studys show that common sense is correct
Obviously 😂
The short answer is obviously yes.
Short answer is actually NO
Short answer is not as much as you think
The long answer may not be as obvious.
Guys don't have to be jacked with huge muscles, but being fit with some muscles opens doors of opportunity everywhere. It's not just with women, but on the job front as well. Also, people are simply more responsive to men with some muscle in so many small ways. Same goes for women in being slender and fit showing good body tone. It's very attractive and people you interact with love it.
you can also just look hot and get the same stuff XD
I guess people who workout need to rationalize doing it as being worth it so they make up all these hypotheical scenarios even tho most people don't really care except themselves looking in the mirror.
It's gotten me jobs@@JustChill-zd4ib. In engineering. Given equal capabilities the more overall attractive person is going to get the nod. I've seen it with women as well. Know this; people are attracted to attractive people. They would much rather deal with someone like that versus a soft overweight slob hosting other negative aspects that cause people to keep their distance. One's life gets better over time a a thousand small ways by being slender and fit, as well as having a charming personality..
I switched to the dad bod recently, but most of my life I was very muscular. I benched 125 kg, etc. Women used to touch me all the time uninvited, and were very flirty. It is clear that women are attracted to muscles and the power it implies.
I've gone back and forth multiple times over the past 15 years, and can confirm exactly what you said. The difference is clear.
I’ve always found muscular men more attractive, as long as they don’t go overboard. Even as a senior citizen (female) I’m still more attracted to men who take care of their bodies.
And yes I also stay in shape. Not expecting perfection and not giving perfection. lol
A woman's definition of a dadbod is Jason Momoa a week into his vacation
Jason Mamoa 1 week after shooting a film he had to get in shape for
I'm a gay Male and was a teenager in the mid 1980's and recall few classmates who were into playing all sports and I remember noticing how defined and yet lean their bodies were. Probably that is the type of muscle body is fined most attractive.
@@JETZcorp I agree with you however(and this may be a generational thing as I was born in the 60's)no doubt that in todays world our palette of preference is broad for both genders but I find that most Gay Man are attracted to a masculinity that most women will be to as well. Then again we now have the androgynous males like in Korean K Pop and Emo's.
One thing is for sure: guys will always care about muscles more than women do
That's because guys mainly interact with other guys. No stranger women will ever come up to a jacked dude throwing compliments at him.
That's because guys mainly interact with other guys. No stranger woman will ever come up to a jacked dude throwing compliments at him
Women seem to on average like the male swimmer body, muscular but not bodybuilder muscular. It also helps there usually fairly tall, lean muscular and in general good shape.
I can safely say from personal experience evolving from a Dad Bod to a Chad Bod...all else equal women definitely like the more muscular version of you. Shocker I know 😆
I have always been muscular. I knew my wife liked that but eventually she told me that the real reason was that I made her feel safe rather than it being a sexual attraction.
It doesn't matter what she says...
actions >>> words
Especially in case of women.
@@andrzejudalski7081agreed. I think she’s saying it’s sexy, plus it makes her feel safe. But you know, women never seem to clearly admit what they think sexually.
Your wife told you about her natural instinct which is why 100% of women are attracted to muscular men, safety. The sexual part is a byproduct or a reaction for reproduction, again all goes back to feeling protected. It's not her opinion lol.
My wife (and previous lady friends) have always been obsessed with my back and shoulder size. I'm not huge (5'7", 195 lbs) but competing in Olympic lifting and powerlifting most of your life tends to put muscle where its needed.
Good on you bro ✌️❤
That kind of muscle is also indicative of power, which is something women say they don't want, but actually really fking do! They can't just spell out their turn-ons though, that would take a lot of the excitement out of it.
@@djackson4605 wait till you find out the most looked at corn section is grape for them too
5ft7 and 195lbs is a lot if you arent fat
195lbs at 5'7💀
A woman will always love A FIT man! Because it shows He's extremely discipline!
It's relative to testosterone
That's literally the equivalent of asking is men attracted to women with curves
Bro your channel is wild 😂
Biology 101. We are "attracted" to those men who will provide and protect. Men are attracted to women who will produce healthy children. We do it without thinking. Unaware people allow media and culture to decide for us.
It would be worth going back in Time and read what Gail Sheehy wrote.
I don't think those things are necessarily true. You are not just attracted to an idea lol. Every individual is unique and different and you intent and personality matter a hell of a lot more than just some hypothetical qualities of "provide" and "birth". Sound like robots. Where is personality? Where is fun? Where is passion and creativity? If people actually function like that I feel sorry for them. Empty and boring creatures...
For me personally there’s a fine line between sexy muscular & too much/not attractive. I think the body builder types reflect a shallow, self centered obsessive, egotistical attitude. To me lean w/strong arms is super attractive. But there needs to be balance in your lifestyle. Someone who cares about his health but also occasionally enjoys food that may not necessarily be the best is ideal to me. If it seems like going to gym everyday & taking shirtless selfies in the mirror is your identity I’m not into that at all. Just my 2 cents as a woman.
I don’t understand why people would want to eat foods that isn’t healthy lol that’s one way to shorten your life span and quality of life, obesity leads to many health problems (diseases such as type 1 Diabetes, cardiovascular disease, some cancers (such as endometrial, breast and colon). These conditions cause premature death and substantial disability which are all preventable if you eat healthy. I understand not wanting a man who’s gym obsessed but to be against a man with a healthy diet that logically makes no sense, that’s basically saying you aren’t interested in a man who’s going to live a longer healthier quality life.
" To me lean w/strong arms is super attractive."
What women don't get is that to get that lean body with strong arms requires the same process as a "body builder type". The only difference is chooses to stay at a lower weight than the other, that's it. It's not easy to get a lean/muscular physique.
Moral of the story get in shape for yourself men, not for women.
That's just like, your opinion.
I like women, so by doing this for women im doing this for myself.
Or don't. Its up to you. Don't get brainwashed by some fitness junkies into running your body into the ground for no reason either.
Impossible to consider that more muscular men are (I hypothesise) more likely to approach women and be confident and disciplined. Perhaps those traits foster more attraction from women even without the physique? I'd say it's both, but is it 80% physique 20% associated traits, or 80% associated traits and 20% physique? If we could ever figure that out it would be interesting
Do a bit more research, you would know those answers HAVE been answerd or have a very close thing to an answer
Im not sure why this is even a question. Its the 80 % looks. Any confident guy without the looks will tell you that is a numbers game. Every good looking guy will tell you that sex is everywhere. Pretty privilege is real.
@@xMckingwill What's the rough % then?
@@alexforce9 Well studies show highly attractive men have WORSE long term relationahip out comes than average men.
@@James-sw9vm from what i gather likely 60% associated traits 40% looks.
It doesnt matter how hot you are if you are uselesss or incompent or would make a terrible father etc.
I’m naturally lean and muscular but this actually put my wife off a bit. I had to overcome that hurdle to get a date with her.
I dont think its your looks that put her off, its the asociacion she have with fit and muscular guys being vain and not very keen for monogamous relationships.
Yea dude, there’s NOTHING wrong with bein you 😂 if anything, ya girls just upset you look so good you’d be fine without her 😂❤
@@alexforce9That's true. When I see a man that is muscular I assume that he might be vain.
It was your rude head
@@alexforce9 Probably true yeah.
It’s not the muscles per se, it’s the way the guy with muscles carries himself
Bodybuilder big, No. Fit like David Beckham or Brad Pitt in Troy, yes.
It's the face that is #1.
Bro the amount of women you sleep with is a huge indicator of some form of attractiveness. Lets not turn everything into some deep science
Most people in modern society are largely unaware of these innate biological drives that influence mate selection. We like to think we choose partners purely based on personality, compatibility and romantic love. However, research shows unconscious evolutionary factors still play a role, even if we don't realize it.
A survey by Psychology Today found that when asked directly about their preferences for a long-term partner, men valued physical attractiveness and youth in a potential mate far more than women did. On the other hand, women placed a higher emphasis on a partner's financial prospects, status, and ambition compared to men.
These tendencies align with the evolutionary principles we've discussed - women are biologically predisposed to seek providers and protectors, while men are drawn to fertility cues like youthful beauty. Of course, culture, personal values and individual differences shape our conscious preferences as well.
The impact of factors like intermittent fasting on reproductive health is also an area many are unaware of. Studies suggest fasting can improve sperm quality and ovarian reserve - giving an evolutionary edge. However, most people choose partners based on conscious personal criteria rather than maximizing biological fitness.
Ultimately, while these unconscious evolutionary forces still exert an influence, we have the power to rise above base instincts through reason, personal growth and prioritizing deeper compatibility. Recognizing these tendencies simply allows us to make more well-informed choices as we select partners.
The key is to celebrate the richness of our human experience - blending biological, psychological and spiritual aspects in our journey to love, growth and perpetuating our species. With awareness, we get to shape our evolutionary path through the modern lens of wisdom and conscious choice. Claude IA
The main thing to keep in mind, if you don't have an attractive face, nothing else matters. You can have a Mr. Olympia body but don't have the right face, you ain't going anywhere!
Does anyone else feel like you're watching a wildlife documentary? I keep expecting a David Attenborough voice-over.
I'm 40 and started working out for the first time at 38. I'm in amazing shape right now and get more attention for my looks than I ever have, but I have noticed I don't look as good in a suit as I used to. I think a thin guy looks better in fancier clothing, but that's really the only downside I've found from getting into good shape.
Have you tried tailoring your suits?
Face> height > muscles
Height>face>muscles
I'll take a short muscular man before I take a tall fat man.
@@simonhorky3605no. Women care much more about face. Height comes close second.
6 figures, 6 ft, 6 inches = perfect system
the height characteristic is very US centric. sure, there may be some truth everywhere that taller dudes are deemed more attractive, but only in the US it is pushed to a point where shorties get discriminated.
Depends on who you ask. If you ask a women she'll tell you no. If you ask her again later she'll say yes. The answer may depend on the time of month.
Nobody dates a picture, and if they do, it doesn't last long.
Even those who don't like very muscular men like what they call "toned" which is actually moderate hypertrophy and low body fat.
Worked out for a year soon. I was slim before. Still am but more muscles. I notice an increase in both how many are xhecking me out, and in the hotness of the ones checking me out. It is very ovvious. The quality part of who is checking me out is actually the nicest part, people who'ld ignore you before.
Met an older woman who said she was disgusted by muscles. But when she later saw my vascular arms, my big chest, she had the same reaction as if a girl with very nice breasts shows them to you, and you just put your face into them, with your mouth open.
I have no evidence to back this up at all, but I think what BOTH sexes are actually attacted to physical indicators of health. For example, a healthy male should have some decent musculature and be around 15% bodyfat, which is probably what most women find attractive. Whereas a healthy female should be in the 25-30% bodyfat range (have some curves), which is what men on average find attractive. I think it's because these physical characteristics indicate health that these tend to be what is considered attractive on a biological level
25-30 lol no
@ajdrums8075 So what are you more of a Lizzo, or Elliot Page kinda guy?
@@MrJacktheGC123 My wife is size 8. Size 8-10 is healthy and attractive. What you are describing is chubby and unfortunately normal these days
@@ajdrums8075 I'm glad you find your wife attractive. My only point is that women naturally have a higher body fat percentage than men. I would argue that most men find women with some boobs and a butt more attractive than not
@@ajdrums8075what does that have to do with bodyfat lmao. 25-30% on a woman is way different compared to on a man
There was a study done on whitetail deer at Texas A&M and they found out that what attracts females to males is antler size/ height. So the human equivalent of antlers is money and height. This is why women are so addicted to NBA players. 😂
one study has shown that on average, women are more attracted to men with round faces when they are on their period, and when they are ovulating, they prefer faces more jagged features
Suppose only 48% of women like muscular men, but only 10% of men are muscular. Those muscular men are going to clean up because they can pick from 48% of women. The 90% of men who aren't muscular are fighting for the other 52%.
Facial attractiveness is a lot more important to most women. If you have an ugly face, most women will find you unattractive regardless of your body type and if you have a very handsome face, women will find you attractive even if you’re not very muscular.
@patrikvavro1611 That is possible, but losing weight/building muscle does impact your face as well because some fat is stored around the face and neck.
I mean yeah, suppose 99% of women love me, that leaves 1% of women for all the other men.
Abs are built in the gym, but revealed in the kitchen. Six pack = low body fat + hypertrophy of abdominal muscles. You need both, not one of the two. You need to train your abs hard in every training session and cut at the same time. Proper nutrition + smart training + supplements (if you've got the extra money) will get you there. Fix your diet first: cut out all junk / processed foods and start eating whole, nutrient-dense foods that support metabolic / gut health. Use progressive overload and focus on multi-joint exercises. Sit-ups, leg raises, and crunches are some of the best exercises for building the abs. If you are a lifter seriously interested in aesthetics / performance / strength, go study Old-School bodybuilding. Old-School bodybuilders were ingenious physique architects. They had a profound knowledge of the principles of proper nutrition, smart supplementation, exercise science, and muscle adaptability. Combining Old-School bodybuilding wisdom with modern, evidence-based science is the best, safest, most effective way to achieve a strong, sexy, healthy, and aesthetic physique. "Vintage Physique" by George Kelly is a nice read on the topic.
Although rare, the most depressed man you will ever meet is one who's put in the work to get into great shape and gets the looks, stares and attention that such a physique brings, yet gets no interest from the girls that he's interested in, and even gets none from the ones he's not interested in.
To me statue of David is the perfect balance of muscle, young, fit, strong arms and legs.
There are zero women who don’t like muscle, zero. Unless they’re in a coffin under dirt.
Surprised he didn't mention women's need to feel safe. Bigger muscles= better protection for the woman.
This dude pushed back so hard when hoe math said woman like dark triad characteristics. This scary vs hot study makes that seem silly now
Where? Which video? Wdym silly?
The core is women are attracted to men that have characteristics of their father in a non incestual way of course, have aesthetic traits that they want to pass on to their child (even if they dont want to procreate) and somebody that has the capacity to protect/provide. All that is subjective of course. Having natural non steroid natural muscle amount is of course more appealing, healthier, discipline involved is definitely more attractive then over weight obese guy 10/10 times. You can have a muscular body but be meretricious as well which isn't appealing. (Beautiful women have the same capacity).
Most women find muscular men attractive, because they look healthy, active and most likely can be consistant and commit to a project, and value their health which all implies that they will live long and produce healthy offspring. Having bigger muscles and being bigger in size feels like that man can protect her woman and be safe. A woman can be in her feminine with a masculine man. Also, round shapes (pecks, shoulders, butts) just look nice.
This is in a way a good thing, because almost every man can go to the gym or be active in other ways and get more fit if they want to.
Whatever study he's citing was probably done in the US or Europe. In Asia women prefer their men to be pretty skinny
I doubt every asian country 😂😅
when woman say they like skinny guy it mean tall skinny guy 😂
I think most women like muscular men, but I think many are turned off by the "bro" mentality that often accompanies the "gym muscles" guy.
This topic is not even debate-worthy. WTF!
…… YES
But not overly so. Just nicely toned and honed.
women like athletic men because athletic men have the same markers of a confident alpha male (micromovements, posture etc) and their eyes can't spot the difference.
Facial aesthetics are the primary influence on attraction for both men and women.
Some people look better at a low body weight, so that can help depending on underlying structure of the face.
People REALLY don't like to think about this, and many guys like Chris spend their lives getting muscular so that they can feel like they contributed to the attention they receive from women. In reality, even without muscle Chris would probably get endless attention from women. There's a correlation between things like androgens/androgen receptors, facial shape, and muscle growth. So sure, a lot of guys who have Chris' face shape also have larger muscles. But it isn't the muscles that make the face look that way. It's just a common correlation.
It’s the low body fat that highlights his chiselled jawline, not his muscles.
@@chillie000 Yes, if a person as a strongly masculine bone structure to the face, losing weight can help, but that depends on underlying bone structure.
@@Jorbz150 ofcourse. But it isn’t because of his muscles as you stated. It’s the low body fat.
@@chillie000 My point is that the bone structure is the most fundamental part. The low body fat is a secondary part, and the muscles are irrelevant.
@@Jorbz150 yes
big difference between muscles on a dark tan male body and muscles on a pale skin male body
It's not about the muscle, its about a man looking after themselves, respecting their bodies and health and can open jars for us lol
People who have good values aren't going to be with you because of muscles. If you are getting muscular because you want to find a partner, there is something wrong with you. Maybe work on your personality - maybe they can't stand your attitude/personality.
Women lke commitment and you have to be able to stick to something to be muscular
Everyone will treat you better when you’re in shape, not just women. Lean and muscular with 12% or lower bf (so that your jawline is defined) is most attractive. Bulky or roid bodies impress only other gym dudes.
I can’t tell you what it is but this guys just gives me the creeps.
Not taking into account guys/girls in this study were 18-22 years old. Not to mention showing bodies without a face is ridiculous. Last, no personality taken into account.
Absolutely yeap
Pretty sure CALENDAR sales can prove that...
Do guys like women with small waist?
Women like men with athletic build. Athletic build looks good with cloths on and cloths off.
Yes but not pro bodybuilder, juiced type physiques. More so the Michael B Jordan/Chris Hemsworth build.
Muscles, musicians and money. Those are the three m's women are attracted to.
More than muscle, women love height.
Most women just prefer a healthy fit physique. You never see a body builder type with a nice looking chick, ever!
Exactly
Who is this guy?
Bro said a whole buncha nonsense, yes or no bro
I think you should ask women brother
Don't listen to what women find attractive.
Set your own definition of attractiveness!
I also learned the hard way back in my 20s that having big muscles didn't automatically make me a masculine man. 😂
Shocker
Dad bods were wanted in the ‘10s. No more. They want the good bods 👍
Basically if you have a 2018 Cristiano body, thats prime attractiveness, if you have a 2007 Jay Cutler body, thats great for bodybuilding, but not women
I think Brad Pitt is the gold standard against which most males are judged by.
I’m so tired of listening to - here’s a few hypothesis, this guy could be anyone on the street just giving random opinion.
yea but hes an academic, not a random guy
Yes water is wet and the sky is blue. But also interested in this meta-analysis if anyone has a link because I can’t find it
Well, im a yoga guy. Guess im stuck with porn.
Are women attracted to people who are more attractive.
Sexual attraction is the strongest form of attraction …when looking at a woman sexually, your mainly focused on her body. They are no different.
Am I the only one who thinks he looks like Joker from FMJ?
SHOW ME YOUR WAR FACE MR. MURPHY
Abs for the win. Ribs is not attractive. Im in between :/ no abs but ribs.
If you don't have muscle and strength, how are you going to protect a woman? Do you really think being tall and able to make money can protect you from someone who has combat skills?
Didn't you have a video about dad bods?
Nothing in excess.
As a muscular woman I don’t like super lean dudes. Be in shape and carry a little weight. I’m looking for ‘I’ll burn your village’
You're looking for a dude with a flamethrower?
@@senzatieee usually.
Measuring "mating success" by bodycount is like measuring "food gathering success" by calories consumed in a day. Going into a mcdonalds and ordering 10,000 calories is something enabled by the modern world, but it blows past any natural concept of acquiring sustenance into a completely disordered behavior. Having sex with lots of people, but either not producing any children or producing children you can't provide for is not "mating success," it's assisted masturbation, sometimes with life-crushing side effects.
That said, obviously more physically fit people are more attractive, who even has to ask that?
You should look up the word analogy. Not sure what you're on about mate. Food gathering success, you mean hunter gathering success.. whatever
@@ckkamae6761 Rewrite what you just wrote and make it coherent this time.
What life crushing side effects?
@@LARA-sg4bt tens of millions of abortions every single year, globally
Lol
The only thing missing from this discussion about what women like is an actual woman…
Wrong. Ask any woman what type of men she likes and listen to her, then compare that to her dating history and casual sex things and you will see how those things rarely the same thing.
@@alexforce9 Nothing I say will make you trust women, dude. You may want to investigate your cynicism though. It’s probably not making you happier.
You need to find a woman that you're interested in- then ask her what she is attracted to/ interested in-- perhaps you have qualities on said list-- if not- don't bother-
@@mcrawl1977 Its not about trust - its about observing reality. I dont think women do it on purpose, they probably dont even realise they do it. I just suggested you an experiment that many men have seen in real life - women saying they want one thing but then going after men who are VERY different that the stated wants and needs.
We women like muscles at ONE point during our cycle & dad bod for the other. Good luck figuring THAT one out. TBH, we don't even fuckin' know when that exact time is or even precisely, ffs. 😂😂
Guys, the grass is GREEN
For sure
So... Put a little salt in your coffee and eat a banana? Cheaper than supplements 😂
Each single person is different, plus the reason muscle men have more sex is because there sleeping around with everyone. more promiscuous.
and they are more attractive, being more fit leads to more confidence which is one reason for your correlation, another is that one night stands rely solely on attractiveness which is why muscular men have more success.
A lot of narcistic men...(my second association)
I am a female Athlete. Natural muscle mass is nice. Too much is just ugly and no fun in bad or even as Partner (you know the additiction, time effort and control stuff). Moreover, no muscle mass can compensate height, a lovely smile and good character. Most bodybuilders had a bad selfconvidence... Most of them were 'uglier" than their friends 🙈
Tl;dw Dont look like a soyboy = More success. You can have some fluff and you can be a muscle mountain, just dont look like a soyboy.
Most attractive men have both masculine and feminine attributes: robust build, thick neck, strong face but pretty eyes, cute nose, full lips. The theory is that a female can gain best of both worlds by mating with him: if there will be a son, he'll be strong and healthy. If girl, she'll be pretty.
Extreme ends of any spectrum will be still attractive to some number of women but not nearly as much as the balanced one.