"One down and 7 more to go" .. Myford Super 7 restored
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- The first Myford Super 7 I bought is now brought back to life. I had left this aside and instead catching up with the others I bought, but as a little boredom set in during the work on the saddles, I decided to finish this. Was more time consuming than first thought just to assemble the motorizing assembly, but now it functions OK.. apart from the fact that I have ordered a new thrust bearing for the clutch that I want to test if this "silences" the rumbling noise when operating the lever. This has been a very rewarding and fun "project" and I think the small machine looks nice sitting atop the work bench (later can be bolted down, but must make a levelling screws "system"). PS! This bench is a compromise, with respect to price, sturdiness and functionality. I will make annother video on the mounting of the machine onto the bench, and alternatives whereas this will represent the more "flimsy" approach prone to vibration, stand/cabinet working as a resonator really because of its' lesser weight and rigidity, as well as material used. I will also make a box-like wooden stand with either a heavy granite table atop and bolt the machine to this (incl. the jackscrew mounts and on tailstock side also with adjusting screws for taking out possible twist), effectively doubling the weight of the complete machine (in much the same way eg. a Schaublin bed is bolted to the cast iron stand, the latter making up 2/3rds of the weight).
As I have documented the different steps of the restoration before in a series of videos, I also did the accuracy tests for each part therein, eg. headstock, tailstock, bed, and cross-slide, but will also do these again and fill into an "accuray chart" following the usual "Schlesinger" standard.
One step I didn't document however was the restoration of the so called motorizing assembly. This was postponed until I had done the MK1 version also, of which I had 2-3 specimens waiting. Now this step is through and another video documenting the MK1- as well as the MK2 clutch is coming. (I will also make another version with a "direct drive", ie. without a countershaft/clutch as I think system this is really more of a benefit when you have a 1 phase motor setup, as was original and usual when the machine was designed. Using a 3 ph motor with VFD control, you can get both the rapid start/stop and a very large speed range, and since one machine came without the countershaft assembly, I thought it was timely to test this "simplification". Must admit though that the clutch is very handy!
Restoration is estimated to have taken some 250 + hours, the majority of these are not "visible" in the finished product as they deal with the rstoration of the geometry/accuracy of the machine, not the "eyewash" effect of the glossy "precision" paint.
Parts changed (by memory):
pair of thrust bearings in headstock
pair of bearings in clutch
Clutch thrust bearing
pair of drive belts (spindle link belt)
pair of labels/signs (speeds and feeds)
backgear lever
rubber pads (for covers)
felt wick (headstock)
felt (saddle)
oilers (here and there..)
metric cross-feed screw, nut and dial
cross-slide end plate and handle
adjustment screws, washers, nuts
metric handwheel on leadscrew (original Myford, but "funny" version: 3,2 mm pr rev..)
Parts not changed but inspected and measured:
clasp nuts and leadscrew
bronze bushings (leadscrew and countershaft)
tailstock barrel and bore (and thrust bearing)
Topslide screw/nut - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Wow!
Your dedication to your work, along with your knowledge is truly brilliant.
You should be very proud of yourself.
Great stuff.
Thnks! It is a lot of work, but as a hobby, very satisfying :)
@@jansverrehaugjord9934 Good day Sir. I was wondering if I could contact you directly, regarding the possibility of contracting your services to restore some equipment of mine.
Thank you for your time.
@@daviddegannes94 Sure.. contact me at jshaugjord a my gmail account
Crazy what you did to that lathe, thanks for sharing this rebuild!
Thanks! Just wait for the rest.. also the one with the ELS (still in the cardboard box.. he, he)
ELS?
Correct..Have a look at their website www.rocketronics.de/els/?v=c2f3f489a005
There are also videos on this on TH-cam.. just search for electronic lead screw. If you have a lathe with changegears, the ELS2 1 axis kit (leadscrew) replaces these and makes both feeds and threading a breeze. Adding the 2nd axis (cross feed) enables you to easily do form cutting also. This company has a commercial, ie. shelf-ware, well-priced product that functions!
Electronic leadscrew - Best invention after sliced bread. No more changegears :D
I love mine and it works so well, change from feed for turning to threading with just a few turns on a knob :)
Replaces the geartrain with a stepper and a encoder.
thanks
Beautiful work, absolutely stunning and an honor to the men who designed and built it. You should be very proud.
Thnks very much! We'll see how precise I can get it
A truly amazing transformation, Well done Sir and great to see another Myford being save from the scrap yards.
Thanks!
Awesome job you did,and I mean AWESOME!!!That work should inspire all who see!
Thnks!
@@jansverrehaugjord9934 picked up the super7 yesterday and it has power cross feed,drip pan with coolant pump and looks new!
@@giannirocco9099 Congratulations!
That looks beautiful!!!!! Mines all original paint so is a little faded in places. You’ve made an excellent job of this lathe and I’m sure all the others will be just as good !
Thanks! As said, most of the work is of course on the details ref. scraping, parts etc. to restore the original geometry and full functionality
Very nice job there, well done Jan.
Cheers from Sweden
Bengt
bsjoelund Takker!
Great work Jan Sverre. I'll have to stop by to see it in the flesh!
Hi,
Yes, of course you must.. it has been a long time :)
Excellent result to a LOT of effort, Jan!
Thanks! Yes, a long journey indeed.. I was sidetracked with respect to finishing this particular machine for awhile, but found it timely to catch up.Am currently onto the Raglan again :)
Any "proper" restoration / rebuild obviously takes a great deal of skill, knowledge, patience and time and even more so when starting with what you did Jan. That certainly shows in the finished results with this one. Maybe a video showing the test results using the Schlesinger standard test methods might be interesting?
Far too many on TH-cam and the machinist forums throw that restored and rebuilt term around when all they've really done is clean up the machine, possibly make a few repairs and add a coat of paint. What you've shown is what those terms actually mean. Very well done hardly covers what you've accomplished.
Thanks! My intention is also to do the tests and document these in a chart.. and of course make a video. Will first make a proper stand with levelling screws etc. As part of this another stand will be a simple wooden bench, but with a "transformator" ie. 100kg block (stone, but concrete and possibly epoxy granite would be equally good/better), so as to weigh it down to a dead heavy plate and thereby both securely mount it, minmize vibration/increase stiffness/rigidity and avoiding bed twist (as it floats/sits free it is within 2/1000 mm end to end)
I'll be very much looking forward to that Jan. :-) Many years ago when I first bought my little Emco Compact 5 lathe I knew a whole lot less than what I do now. I did know enough to check for any taper it was turning after bolting it down to a wooden topped but very heavy steel bench. I was seeing about .003" / or almost .01 mm over not quite 12" / 300 mm while turning a 2"/ 50 mm diameter bar between centers. I then bought and added what Emco called "leveling elements" basically screw adjustable plates that bolted to the bottom of each end of the lathe bed that were used to adjust the bed so it was true. The lathe still felt a bit less rigid than it should have and wouldn't hold the adjustments very well. I then added a full length and width 12" x 27" x 1" thick steel plate bolted to the wooden bench top with those leveling plates and the lathe bolted to it. That's when I started seeing what the machine could actually do once it was adjusted to turn without a taper. Less than .0002" over that same steel bar. That extra steel plate added about 150% to the lathes weight and made a massive difference in it's overall rigidity to a light weight lathe. In my opinion it's a very good idea to add as much weight and rigidity to the bench and bench top as you can as I'm sure you already know. So I fully expect you'll see some very good results.
Very interesting story! Thanks for sharing! Precisely my thoughts too..
When I restored my ML7, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as scraping the bed or slides. I did what I reckon was needed to get the lathe to run as good as possible. Electrolysis rust removal, changing bearings, replacing broken parts and giving it a very good looking paint job - with the original Myford paint and stickers. I'd say mine is more correctly restored than Jan's, because of the very fact that I used this original factory paint.
But then again - mine isn't anywhere near the fantastic end result that is shown here, technically. And, it shouldn't be! After all, it's a ML7, and not a Super7. Two different worlds! If I only have had all the info available - right from the start, I'd probably also would have scraped all sliding surfaces. I still say mine is a 100% restored machine, and fully operational - with all the limitations and flaws a 50+ year old Myford should have, without being over-restored!
Thanks for the input and feedback.To me, what decides what to do is primarily functionality.There is no great deal of difference between an ML7 and Super 7 with respect to accuracy. The bed and saddles slides measure the same. Both are fantastic small lathes, albeit maybe somewhat old-fashioned?). Arguably they are worked to their limit, and as small, quite nimble (nice word for a little flimsy.. ha, ha) machines may struggle if parts are too big.. Still, I reckon many of them when in a hobby shop will outlast their owner,s and as said by Erling only need replacing some parts as years go by. However, if wear in slides/bed/tailstock sets in, scraping is both a relatively easy and cheap way to restore full functionality. But, it might not be neccessary.. For example, you could have a quite large error in the bed, usually near the chuck, before the actual diameter on a part measures "wrong".. and may still be able to "live with this problem" by compensating in various ways, eg. move the slide over to the unworn part of the bed and use a steady rest.Anyhow, Myford has made a very nice smal leaflet on how to check the lathe (as they did when they were in business) and based their decisions on what to do on these functionality/accuray tests. Eg if a bed needed a regrind, saddles, cross slide, top slide, tailstock base needed a rescrape, leadscrew/clasp nut, tailstock barrel, cross/top screw/nut, spindle bearings, belts, etc. needed replacement. Very useful info! See links here: modelengineeringwebsite.com/Used_lathe.html modelengineeringwebsite.com/used_lathe_2.html They also made up their version of the accuracy charts following standard practise ie. like DIN toolroom lathe tests (or that described by Schlezinger). To make things easy for myself, I just follow their practise, procedure and tests.. and let the numbers derive decide.. Video on this coming up !The amount of work needed to restore a machine is also dependent on how much time one would like to invest (I have the luxury of doing this as a hobby, so no one is asking for the delivery time), "money to spend".. (manufacturing parts to replace broken ones could be an alternative to buy new), the intended usage (most of the time one doesn't need to go to 1/100 mm accuracy), skill set (I sure am no good painter, but have aquired some scraping experience and like to put this into use).But above all I think it is what pleases you to do.. if it is a hobby.
Really amazing work. Better than new!
Thanks. However, I doubt a new S7 was worse..
They beds were not scraped at least.
That is true.. scraping or grinding should be done to the same tolerances, but sometimes grinding can be "improved" ,because the process is governed/ results decided by the machine and setup used, opening up for "issues",
while by scraping you will (given time) be able to copy the exact surface plate quality you compare against
Fantastic restoration! Thanks for sharing. Daniel
Thanks to you too! I hope it will be inspiring to others to see how a wreck can be turned around..
Fantastic job my friend
Vinny Thanks!
Beautiful job - congratulations!
Thnks
WOW. Those comparison photos!
Quite a difference, yes 😀
@@jansverrehaugjord9934
Massive congratulations to you.
You have done a fantastic job!
@@MadeInGreatBritain Thnks! Tok awhile you might say..
Well Jan, as you know I've been following every little detail, and am blown away at your result. I can see your soul in one of the pics, 👍
Thanks! well, the devil is in the details here. It has been a fun, "lots to learn" and rewarding project.
Very nice rebuild!
Thanks!
Excellent work ! considering how bad it was !!
Thnks!
Two things about this build would definitely be worthy of more detail. 1. The scraping of the bed ( its long and difficult to do, I wonder how you went about it.) and 2. the conversion to metric (I have been toying with this for ages.Did you buy the conversion or make it yourself?).
Hello there,
For the scraping, pls. have a look at my previous videos on the scraping of a Myford flatbed: th-cam.com/video/piLnD2FAeq0/w-d-xo.html
This is part 1, followed by parts part 2,3,4 and 5.
Same procedure here, on an ML7:
th-cam.com/video/BZO4ojn4VJk/w-d-xo.html
Part 1, followed by parts 2 and 3.
I am now in the midst of scraping an ML10, which will be a topic of some more scraping videos.
As is evident from the videos, I have access to a large surface plate as well as a BIAX machine scraper, both which makes the job easier/faster. However, you can do this all this to the same degree of accuracy with a hand scraper and other means for testing than the plate. I often switch techniques/procedures and tools.. nice way to maintain skills and verify measurements etc.
I have another set of 3 beds (one Super 7 and 2 ML7's.. actually hardly any difference) which I shall first measure and if they are much worn (they don't appear to be) I will consider grinding, but most probably I will machine scrape them. Then the intention is to try out some Swiss type pull scraping, but I will first have another learning session on this from the my mate, the pull-scrape master up here, Mr. Edvin Wold. Check out his website www.missiseipi.com for details on the restoration of his machines showing a lot of very nicely scraped surfaces!
Regarding the Metric conversion, check my video th-cam.com/video/tMb1qasGvPI/w-d-xo.html
I bought the metric scale and screw/nut from Myford. The pair of thrust bearings at Ebay if I remember correctly. On a couple of later S7's I have bought screws/nuts also at Ebay. Screws are OK, but nuts are sloppy.. therefore I have also bought oil-bronze stock and a tap.. :)
Wonderful job. I wish I could find a ML7, but they do not grow on trees in California. Mange Myford i Norge.
Thanks! Not sure how many were imported to the US. But, there are many different, nice, smaller US made lathes also to choose from
@@jansverrehaugjord9934 From what I understand they sold some in Canada, but here in the US it does not seem to be a lot of them. Oh well, I sort of have "a thing" for the ML7, so I am not looking for other lathes. We'll see. Currently I am enjoying watching youtube movies about the ML7. Easier to find one in England, but I would hate to pay for that freight. Takk for filmene du har laget.
@@billbrox8666 Takk og vel bekomme! 😀 Du snakker Norsk ?
@@jansverrehaugjord9934 Flytende Senjaværing.
I'll be starting the restoration of a Super 7 myself soon. I hope it turns out like this....
Absolutely possible. The "precision paint" is mostly a cosmetic and "eyewash" thing.. most of the work was restoring the mechanical properties ie. accuracy and functionality
I'm hoping the ways will be in a fit state, as I don't have the first clue about scraping. Nice job you did there.
Beachcomber Bob Thanks! Unless you find your parts are not holding tolerances, or you are unsatisfied with respect to some aspect of the functionality eg. chatter, lack of rigidity, excessive backlash, general fit and feel, or also take the time to measure the machine geometry and find it in need of restoration, just use the machine and enjoy machining 😊
Awesome job!
Kiitos!It is has been a long journey!
That machine looks and I am sure (more importantly) works great. I had no idea that set of lathes you bought were in such bad shape. My schaublin 135 rebuild will be easy in comparison right? 😉
Thanks Luke!
I knew they were in bad shape as they were left to be used as donors. I can only speculate, but guess the beds were the reason for this, possibly because of the economical consideration in having them reground, and the mating parts fitted ie. scraped.. I am sure your Schaublin will just perfecet! It is a totally different "animal", but so are the work/effort/costs involved I assume?
Very nice !!
Thnks!
looks fantastic. I have a Myford ML10. Did you do the scraping of the bed?
Thanks. The ML10 is a nice small lathe. I especially enjoy Myforboy's channel, where he uses this lathe. Yes, I did the scraping of the bed.
Impressive job.I am on a Super 7 MK1 restauration. It's time consuming.
Bruno Girard yes, indeed. But very rewarding
Fantastisk imponerende, Jan Sverre!
Finnes det noe norsk forum for restaurering av maskiner ol.? -jeg har en emco-benk jeg ønsker å sette istand, og trenger en plass der jeg kan lære mer.
Hei og takk for hyggelig kommentar!Jada, det er iallefall noe i nærheten: Verktøymaskinklubben, på Facebook. Det er en lukket gruppe, men hvis du sender inn en forsepørsel skal jeg selvsagt legge deg inn. Evt. gir du meg din email og så inviterer jeg deg. Vi er nå over 4000 medlemmer og vi som var med fra starten er noen ordentlige maskin-nerder. Det er bare å komme med spørsmål der så hjelper vi hverandre. Hvor bor du forresten?
Takk for raskt svar! Jeg bor i Trondheim og er en fysiker/dr.siv.ing/med en forskerjobb der jeg har tilgang til, samt behov for, maskinverksted. I tillegg er det en jo en flott hobby å få bruke og jobbe med slike maskiner. Jeg sender en forespørsel til gruppa på FB.
Good job 👏👍
Thanks!
Dear jan, are you aware that the ML7 obeys the" narrow guide principle"whereas the Super 7 does not.It is the saddle to bed slideway guidance I refer to. Why did Myford change it ? in your, eagerly awaited opinion.
I assumed they did. Reason is because the earlier Super 7's were also made with the "narrow guide" design. Not sure when they changed, but it was probably one of the "mid-life updates" introduced as they gained experience and feedback from customers.
Why they changed? Not sure either, but assume it had to do with experiences in usage, most likely because of amount of wear on the proportionally shorter inner vertical face used for the "narrow guide" design, as opposed to the prolonged "service life before need of restoration" with use of the longer casting available when the rear of the saddle was used in the "wide guide" design
By the way, where did you get your VFD, and what's your motor spindle speed? I know it's academic, as your controlling the speed with the VFD, but what's the r.p.m. on the plate? It's a 3 phase 1/2 h.p., right?
Beachcomber Bob Yes, half horse 3ph motor.. async 4 pole, hence at 50Hz it is about 1400 or thereabouts. bought the vfd on Ebay.. a "million" variants available 😁
Wow what a brilliant job Jan your attention to detail is fantastic, just six more to go 👍👍👍👍👍
Regards Alan.
Ps I sent you an email about some spotting blue did you receive it.
Thanks! :) actually this was my first Super 7 that was purchased locally before I did the 7x7, ie. my No.1 or 8 whatever way one would like to count them, which means I have another 7 to go :) Only one with a gearbox..
Hi again,Just answered you. Sorry for that.. must have missed it! However, as I write you, I have gotten and tested another type of water soluble blueing color, and it seems OK. A little oily in substance, but perhaps somewhat more pigment than the Canode. More "guns" to the arsenal!
Nice Work!
Thanks!
Amazing work Jan. Which paint did you use?
Thanks, it is an oil based paint of good quality, locally available. Had it documented somewhere in the video series, but admittedly hard to find out (must trace through first).
I was always advised to use polyurethane or epoxy 2K based paint as it is more resistant to oils and solvents. Do you have any experience with that?
On the others I use what they called "truck paint". I think that is a term used for a variant of car paint, but available in lesser color choices. I reckon you can't go wrong with the Epoxy 2k paint . A friend of mine is a real "artist" when we are talking restorations and I believe this is what he uses. Look at his "creations" here www.missiseipi.com
Wild Weasel I use alkyd enamel which after proper curing resists oil. The advantage of common paint is the convenience of sourcing locally, ease of application with a bristle brush and quick and easy repair if a little mishap happens. Daniel
Thanks guys
Outstanding,
PitBull Motors Thanks!
Jan Sverre Haugjord don’t suppose you want to fly across the pond to restore my Super 7? Lol. Can be seen on YT, key words stevepitbull Myford.
Haha.. Wow1 A ton of accessories! Consider yourself a lucky guy. Spend sometime cleaning up the lathe and then you can do some wear related accuray measurements. You will probably find some wear, but if not extreme, then just enjoy using the machine. When needed, find out what to do, eg. change parts, redo some of the assemblies etc. etc.
I guess there are many other/better restorers than me. I know that there are several professional companies in the USA you can ask for a quote. My best advice if you want to do this yourself is to take a Richard King scraping class (others also, but I know RK delivers!). It will be a very nice investment of your money into learning to restore your lathe, as well as general insight into accuracy and alignment of a machine tool. You will also learn a lot of other stuff, and meet a host of persons equally addicted :)
Jan Sverre Haugjord thanks for watching the video. I would love to restore the Myford myself but having a 15 lift European auto repair shop with 20-30 cars a day in keep me from that passion. Don’t know if you watched any of my other videos. But I started collecting two years ago and now have about 40 machines. It has gotten out of hand. Simply not enough time in a day to tend to them as I would love. That is my retirement plan. I have picked up a quick change box ,turret a double cross slide and a few other goodies for my Myford. I would love to find a local person to do my restorations as I have about a dozen lathes in need. I am going to look up king. Thank you for that advice. And you do great work
hi
i thing i have the same lathe that i bought it
my lathe is too bad
i am trying to clean it and go as you do a great job
i have problem to remove the gearbox and the lead screw
?
how to remove it please
Hello there! Nice to hear about a fellow Myford owner. There should be no problem dis-assembling the parts you mention. However, you might need a user manual. This is found online several places as a .pdf and can also be bought new eg. from www.myford.co.uk. I would also recommend you to enlist with the Facebook Myford user group, or possibly the long established Yahoo group
thanks for yours replay
good to see your comment
3 1/2 hp?!
No .. "3ph 1/2Hp" ie. three phase half horsepower" :)
You do great work! I have great respect for your skill. My question is why waste your time an great skill rebuilding a over priced pile of junk lathe? Basically a 1930's design with plain spindle bearing.
Thanks for the compliment regarding my scraping skill sir
Its a Myford. Thats why. Besides, my South Bend "Heavy 10" was built in 1973 yet has the same type of spindle bearings (and other things) as a South Bend model 1910. Should I junk it and get a chinies import instead?