Thank you for including the part about those born via means of in vitro and other means of fertilization. Their lives are no less important because of it. God still has a plan and a salvation for their lives.
I was conceived that way. I've been a devout Catholic since my early childhood. And every time I read or hear clergymen speak against it as being wrong, it feels like their words are snapping Your neck. Just try to understand that feeling, fellows. I can understand the talk against homosexuality (I'm not one), because often the people choose it in some way... but this is just so... IDK how to even describe it
@@Tony-ci7ys Do not be discouraged brother, this is the same case as the Jews blaming Jesus for doing miracles and healing people during the Sabbat. What was more important, the healing, the miracle, the life, the love, those poor people whose life were saved, or the religious rule of the sabbat ? Of course it was the people’s lives that mattered the most. Jesus encouraged us to heal, told us that future disciples will do even greater miracles than him (well we walked on the moon, and can make infertile parents have children and give life, aren’t those hugely miraculous ?) Since when giving life has became a sin ? The child’s DNA is still fully half dad’s DNA and half mom’s DNA, it’s still two flesh united in one and the perfect representation of his parents love. IVF can be actually harsher to live mentally and show much more resilience and love than let’s say.. someone born from accident. IVF kids were fully wanted. If someone is preaching hopelessness and death, then that preach can only come from demons. Jesus gave hope to everyone including to the worst of society, he does not have a single preach where he did put a believer in a hopeless situation or made that believer feel like a second class lesser human. The whole contrary, he has what is good even inside a prostitute’s heart. He did spread hope, life (literally rose the Deads), and love all along his path.
@@loupbleu3177 Thank You much... it's not really about any disencouragement, it just hurts. Yes, I used to think it was a sin, but later I realized what You write as well - I was much wanted and loved!
@@Tony-ci7ys I don't think it's wrong that you have been conceived that way, you are here and have the same worth as anyone else. What's problematic is what happened to any siblings you have that have not had a chance to live like you did, you're the lucky one who made it (and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it, none of it is your fault). Thankfully now, frozen embryos can be donated to other couples who can then carry them to term and give them the chance to grow up in a family, instead of being discarded. My wife and I are in the process of adopting embryos, all our kids will have been conceived through IVF. The biological parents just couldn't live in good conscience with the idea of discarding a single embryo.
@@Tony-ci7ys I’d like to add that Jesus himself wasn’t born from a « natural » intercourse but rather from the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit (which we can call an artificial insemination). God himself chose to take a human body in this way, while he could have just assembled his adult body’s atoms, or the body of a baby born of a father and mother’s union. It’s incredible how no matter the era he is very close to us and has suffered in every physical and mental way that a human can, including being seen as an « unnatural » birth (or worse, you can imagine). When this priest can say things like « how romantic » his words directly hit Christ and he doesn’t even realize it.
I always appreciate that you are willing to speak your mind with respect and without fear or censorship. I wish more people would do the same so we could all learn from each other instead of just accepting the voice of those who speak louder.
I understand all the arguments. I even see them for my own life and deal with the very big pain of my infertility. But I can't judge other parents whose need for a child was so huge that they had to try everything at least once. I know such a child whose conception might not have been romantic. But it was very much an act of love.
That’s a good perspective. We should never judge others for their possible sins. On the other hand, we shouldn’t run from the issue. I wouldn’t encourage you to rebuke everyone who uses IVF, but we also shouldn’t become complacent about the sins of our society, lest we be held accountable as well
There was a time when I believed that honest desire for a good result made my decisions okay. Now, no matter what, I must look to the church for guidance and trust our Eternal God. Pray that other Catholics find the courage to do the same.
I understand you, dear sister, and I'm truly sorry about your case. But, please, be careful, for you are putting your own desire over what is correct. That's what the original sin is about. The need for God should be greater than the need for whatever else, even a child. Read it this way: «If that need for a child was so huge that they had to try *sin* at least once...» and let that speak out by itself. In the end, how can it be an act of love, when you are stripping all that makes love, love in the process? Turning it into something mechanical, into a _loveless_ act of producing life, even if we are willing to give love to that life [as Father Casey pointed out.] God bless.
@@drewidlifestyle7883Sex is not only for the purpose of creating life, but that is one of the primary purposes. Some people do not get to have what they desire, even if it’s a great good. I think it’s important to trust in God’s plan rather than try to force your own way in the wrong direction
@@carolyngreen223 My dear sister, marriage's main goal is procreation, indeed, fair enough, but is not the only goal. To become one flesh, supporting each other and finding a companion in life is also part of the deal. Plus you should never doubt God's power and will, older couples can also bear children. God bless.
Fr Carsey, this is a bold step at raising awareness on the church's position on IVF. It's really an emotional issue that has beoken the mind of many couples especially in the developing world like Nigeria where having children is traditionally defined to determine the survival of marriages. Couples without any child are looked down upon and the bug most often goes to the woman. In-laws will always blame her and not let her be. Catholic and other christian marriages are not spared, they have collapsed not because the couple don't love each other but may be weak to withstand pressure from the extended family. Fr Carsey, can you kindly make a video to assauge the minds of such Catholic and Christian families and couples undergoing this traumatic experience of childlessness? They need to be encouraged to spiritually stay afloat in their faith as we are all human. Well done.
Refreshing to see the sort of content that actually impact Catholic life and not just more culture war/antiwoke stuff most other online Catholics spend their time talking about. It’s time we looked inward.
That's an oxymoron, though. Are you saying those other things other channels speak about doesn't impact Catholic life or that they shouldn't bother us? Despite the fact Catholics are called to care about society and look after it and all its members, despite them hating us and even persecuting us?
@@GranMaese a lot of the stuff I see people go on and on about especially related to wokeness has 0 impact on my life and the decisions I make. If you want to care about society, live an upright life.
@@reginaldphillips7615 So you are Catholicism itself, my friend? You're right, though that if you want to care about society, you should live a Catholic [upright] life, that's the whole point. But you must first define what an "upright" life even is. Also how do you even know they have 0 impact in your life? Perhaps they don't at first glance but may come back later in ways you not even expected, because you didn't learn to deal with them on time. Just saying. Have a good one.
This should be one of the least controversial teachings of the Church. I admire Fr. Casey for not being afraid to upset the apple cart from time to time. Non-Catholics insulted Catholic women for decades and popularized misogynistic terms like "baby factories". Yet when faced with a real baby factory, all of a sudden they openly endorse it!
Thank you Father. You have blessed us here with many many videos, some of which have returned me to the Church after 12 years astray. Please pray for me and I will always pray for you. God bless you and keep you Father.
It really confuses me when I see Americans politicians and pro-life activists condemn abortion, but at the same time defend IVF. In Europe its unthinkable for pro-life activists to approve of IVF. For the exact reasons fr. Casey mentions.
American politics these days are incredibly broken due to the two party system forcing folks into camps who are entirely defined purely in terms of simply opposing the other camp, leading to incoherent policies mishmashed between incompatible philosophies that are reinforced by the party mentality. Europe tends to have more Parliamentary systems using more proportional election styles, making many parties more viable, and thus leading to more coherent political groups. You no longer have to fit everything under a single tent quite as much (although governing coalitions do still blend this together a bit).
Thank you for articulating the position of the church so clearly. Wether a person agrees or disagrees, I don't think there is much room for confusion about the problematic aspects of IVF.
Father Casey, I agree with some of the moral issues surrounding in vitro fertilization. In particular the destruction of embryos that are not implanted, etc. But I was a little surprised at the insensitivity expressed concerning couples who go through this route. It came across a bit mocking when you said "how romantic," and implied that there was no love in the process. Most couples who go this route go through much of the process together, deeply love each other, and deeply want to share familial love with a very -much-wanted child. Most of this video I agree with but I hope you will consider how your tone may come across to people who are already emotionally suffering due to infertility. I experienced secondary infertility myself and I did not choose in vitro, but I very well understand how traumatic it is to experience infertility and I hope you will take a more pastoral approach to couples experiencing this in the future.
It kinda sucks the choice is abortion up until the moment of birth or IVF. Still a clear choice if you ask me but shows we got a long way to go as a society
@@drewidlifestyle7883No he did make a statement the other day saying that IVF is a great thing because babies are great Politically, I think Republicans should duck the issue for now since either choice will lose more votes than it gains
People today born through IVF are proof of God's limitless grace and mercy. That doesn't mean we can in any way condone the transactional and destructive nature of the process. There ARE people picking and choosing what traits they want in their child already. People are becoming commodities.
I was born through IVF because my parents tried years and years the natural way but they were not successful. IVF was that miracle to them. I think it opened the “flood gates” so to speak as my two younger brothers came as sudden wonderful surprises naturally. I know the Catholic Church is not saying this but the way they are arguing against IVF, it FEELS like I should not even be here, I shouldn’t have known my parents, my brothers, this world, or God.
@jcrader5677 It was a miracle that you were successfully born, yes, but in return any other egg and sperm cells that successfully joined and created a human zygote were destroyed. With the Church's belief that all life has value and dignity from conception to natural death, that means a lot of life was killed, but again your life has value and dignity, too. Maybe God let you be born from IVF so that the destruction would stop. I think them being able to conceive naturally afterward was a pretty clear sign from God that if they turned to Him he would've given them you naturally, too. And even if your parents didn't use IVF to make a designer baby, there are people that are doing that, further devaluing human life and turning babies into mere "things" you can customize like a Build a Bear. It's a very concerning practice.
Frankly I think some of these arguments are weak. Saying that IVF "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists", I'm pretty sure most normal pregnancies do that anyway? For example, I was born via a c-section, something you absolutely need a doctor for, was that entrusting my life to a doctor? What's the difference? Also, it's my understanding that people don't do IVF for funsies, it's done when traditional pregnancy would prove dangerous or impossible, so the argument about it depersonalizing and objectifying women and their children falls flat when the alternative is the woman either risking their life or having no child at all. And depending on the context, I see no objectification in surrogacy. Like, if poor women are compelled to do it to survive, then yeah that's pretty messed up, but if a woman's doing it for an infertile friend/family member so they can have a child, I honestly think that's sweet.
@@Colddirector why is hiring a nanny or governess to take on many of the tasks of raising children is common practice and apparently raises no ethical concerns but gestating the embryo is ethically problematic. I don’t see the difference
Brother, battles make us who we are which includes many things including this issue, if you so crave a child and can't conceive maybe look for adoption, if you are really depressed about this matter maybe then consider in vitro as a last option. If this process becomes a widespread practice then there will be issues, and the process will be exploited. church is for the masses and it will condemn such things. C section to save a child already alive and creating children in labs is different, and the nanny argument? Brother he says if multiple embryos all succeed they'll abort unwanted fetuses on parents will , can you not draw a line connecting to abortion Also brother people do use this for fun, models use surrogacy to save their body shape, if these proceses are commercialized then there will be lots of women who will be employed for sole purpose of carrying other women's children
@@vsr5557 I'm not a catholic nor a christian, and I am not looking to have a child at this time. I'm just responding to the arguments in the video I found to be weak. I am not against abortion, but obviously I am neither able nor interested in arguing its justifiability from a biblical perspective. To be clear, I'm sure there are some people who do IVF for frivolous reasons, but from what I've seen it's overwhelmingly reserved for if traditional methods fail. And plenty of beneficial technologies can be abused, the Industrial Revolution is a classic example of that, it's better and more pragmatic to legally regulate the practice so it can't be abused.
Having given birth, I don't see any parallel between being pregnant and baby-sitting. I also understand why most of surrogate mothers are poor... would I be so generous to give birth to a friend? Maybe not. I wonder how I have managed to be so generous to birth my own.
I used to be fine with the idea but I have to admit I'm a bit more on the fence now. I didn't know about the excess embryos and what's done with them. The ability to pick and choose which one gets to survive reeks a little too much of eugenics to me.
@@drewidlifestyle7883 It's not about the ones who are chosen, it's about the ones who aren't. An orphan that never gets chosen still gets to become an adult.
There are a few options for unused embryos: They are simply discarded. They are donated for science purposes, much like one could donate their bodies to science after their death. They can be placed on the shelf, but this option has a price because freezer space isn't unlimited; it is, in essence, stalling for time. There is the option of donating an embryo to another prospective couple, but this needs to be legally arranged before anything starts and all parties have to agree. These options also apply for the situations where one or both parents might die, they cancel the entire process, or they split up.
Remember everyone. The Catholic teaching is that for the sexual act between husband and wife should be PROCREATIVE and UNITIVE. Contraception distorts the sexual act between husband and wife because it renders it not open to life. It’s still considered unitive but not procreative. IVF distorts the sexual act because it takes the unitive away and therefore only leaves it as solely procreative. This is why the act of IVF is morally wrong because it’s a disorder or distortion of the sexual act just like contraception. This doesn’t mean the life conceived from IVF is somehow bad or immoral but we can still say through the church’s teachings that the method and way the life came about is immoral.
I have a beautiful child, a true gift from God, who was conceived by my wife and I with the assistance of IVF. She is baptized a Catholic, she will have her first communion in the spring, and she is already making choices that show she is a good, empathetic, faithful, and loving human being. If I’m a sinner for adding such an incredible little girl to Jesus’ flock, then God’s will be done. Nevertheless, the birth of my daughter is a true and visible miracle of God, it is something my heart will never be contrite about, but will always be grateful to our Lord; for in my heart it was not a sin, nor a mistake, but rather a true blessing bestowed upon my family by the merciful Lord our God. I say this not being haughty against church teaching in general, but standing in awe at personally witnessing God’s love, blessings, and irrevocable mercy. At this, I can only rejoice.
@@mr.sandwich3939 Yes I did. I agree, he didn’t. Yet he said that the Church opposes IVF and the parents who choose it go against church teachings. My comment addresses exactly this. For many good kids come to God loving families through IVF. One thing I didn’t mention, which I should, is we didn’t know and never heard prior that the Church opposed IVF. That wouldn’t have changed our decision to go forward with it after years of trying. As I said, God blessed us and we were successful immediately. Thank you.
The mix of comments just proves what is already known. Many Catholics disagree with this teaching, which is unsurprising. The better question is should people who aren't Catholic be dictated by the State as whether or not they can have IVF.
The more important question is "should the State dictate whether or not they can have an abortion?" Because the core question is the abortion question, than the secondary issue of people losing their dignity by eliminating the sexual act (IVF generally) and gestation of their children (as is the specific case in surrogacy).
@@toddlundand the question behind that question that the right ignores if you give the government power forcing women to give birth does it then slowly gain the power to force women not to. It is historical fact the government has in fact forcibly sterilized people in the past and it’s not exactly inconceivable they would again given the power
Well said, Father Casey. I just want to put in my two cents about another issue I have with IVF. There are so many children out there with no parents or with parents who are unable to fulfill their commitments as parents. It bothers me that people go out of their way to conceive when these children need love too. I've always lived by the idea that one does not need to be of the same blood to be family, and I think it's terribly selfish that so many people choose IVF over adoption.
Knowing the Church teaching is useful because if you go down this road you need to be ready to make big calls about life. I did struggle with the romantic comment. Often the road to conception is full of charts, tests and rather un romatic time pressures (just something to consider). Afterall, we can will things all we want but it is God's will that creates. We are co creators, stewards and partners not authors of life. Big hugs to the IVF children reading this, you are a gift from God.
What’s your point of view regarding policy on this subject? I understand the push to ban abortion, since the Church’s understanding is that abortion is murder. But let’s say an IV treatment that uses 1 egg at a time, so no aborted eggs? I think the best way to frame my question is, what’s the point of view regarding the separation of Church and State? In my view, the issue of IV is mostly a faith matter, so it shouldn’t be applied to law (since it would apply to people that do not share that faith, and that opens a nasty precedent that could even backfire to Christians in general).
Separation of church and state is separating the secular state from the church, not the other way around. If we truly believe in the one Lord above, why would we not want His laws to be governing us?
@@Jaximus37 because people would follow it out of fear and not their own free will. Also your same argument can be used against you, just look how other religions are treated in the Middle East. If Christianity becomes a minority, would you want some other religion imposing their rules on you?
I don’t think the Church has any views on separating Church from State. The Church wouldn’t want the State to force everyone to be Christian, but that’s because it’s wrong, not because it’s a government overreach. I think the Church’s position is that you should not be allowed to sin in such a way that harms an unwilling participant, such as creating a child outside of the marital act or prematurely ending that child’s life. Let me know if you see any holes in this position because I just thought about it
@@Tarek172839why do we make laws for anything? If we make a law against murder, then people will only refrain from murdering someone because they are afraid of the law, not "from their free will". But you see we understand that it's better for everyone to be following the law even if some people are doing it for the wrong reasons, than for there to be no law at all.
@@CatholicElectrician I feel like everyone thinks Christianity being in power in government would mean it would have to force everyone to be Christian but, that just doesn't make sense to me. Having laws that are of Christian origin does not mean we would force everyone to be Christian. That would be what Islam does. What I was implying was Christian values and morals in a governmental state. Not the church ruling over all like a dictatorship.
If a child is born, a child is born. The act of wanting to create life, if consensual between parents, is a gift. The logic provided would suggest that even in sexual assault, if the woman became pregnant, the child would be considered as a gift....which, is a hard pill to swallow. Maybe for some it is. As a scientist and catholic, I strongly feel religion is very archaic in thought still. It is a miracle alone that a fertilization event leads all the way to birth of a baby healthy enough to then survive. You can think of multiple embryos implanted/destroyed as killing life, but it biologically, there is the POTENTIAL of life at conception. Many embryos fail during IVF, they each could be considered a separate fertilization act. Some woman chose, and depending on the situation, if two embryos take, to let them continue, then you get twins. If God did not want children as "gifts" to be born under any of these circumstances, then they would never be successful. The church should reposition that the very fact that medicine and science CAN help people bring children in the world, that is also a GIFT that God provided the doctors/scientists in order to HELP those.
Never go against God's will. Science was not used to create life. Only the Holy Spirit does. Be careful with commiting blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
The church should not change stance on something because society, and what it can do, changes. God is eternal and so is His word. While new technology requires the church to respond, the philosophy (theology, really) behind the response remains the same.
I've followed your channel for some time, as while i was raised and remain an Agnostic-Atheist I have a great deal of respect for the Franciscan order and you in particular. You're succinct and direct, and if more priests were as you were Christianity as a whole would be in a much better state. And with that background, I feel I can tell you its stances like this that are part of why younger people continue to avoid the Church. Even if its meant well, it comes across as fearful of change and technological advancement, and smells of attempts to control peoples lives for reasons that even when so well explained seem frivolous at best to a Secular mindset. Its things like this, and asserting life begins at conception, that make the Church the subject of everything from jokes to ire, and in many cases far worse. Paired with the history of the Church - recent and historic - it all comes across as Archaic at best, and as a denial of reality at worst. I don't have a solution for you, but so long as these remain true the Catholic church will continue to shrink, because the type of conservatism that agrees with these views will flock more to Islam than Christianity.
Life is transmitted it does not begin, however the new combination is formed at conception. You can read about Quickening a long controversial subject.
I’m 19, the Church’s extremely consistent and logical moral code is one of the main reasons I first gained an interest in investigating and joining it.
Point of fact: The Church ius not "shrinking". It is growing by leaps and bounds except in the West, and even in the West there are signs of improvement (i.e., in France). The teachings put forth in Humanae Vitae have nothing to do with "fear of technological advncement"., and is not an "attempt to control peoples' lives". It is a clear, unwavering explanation of the truth as Our Lord comissioned Peter and his sucessors to preach. If you have "respect" for St. Francis, then shed your Agnosticism/Atheism and find your way to God. He is waiting for you.
@@kennethcostigan1367why do you think it’s impossible to respect someone without converting to their religion? The way you snidely put respect in scare quotes speaks to a really ugly trait I see in modern Christians - the presumption to know what’s going on in someone else’s head, as if OP doesn’t “really” respect Francis. Also generally atheists in the west are ex-Christians. It’s not like they haven’t tried seeking god already.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchaiI don’t think a consistent moral code is a good thing if that code is wrong. For example, someone believing the exact same thing at 18 and 80 speaks to a lack of development, not virtue.
The thing about gifts is that they aren't guaranteed. The Lord knows best. One could make the argument that IVF would fail if it isn't meant to be, but that feels like a bit of a stretch in logic in one way or another.
Certainly true. There are good ways to be a practical father or mother, including adoption and foster care; and there are many ways that you can be a spiritual mother or father to young ones in your family, church, and community. God has a plan for you, so it’s best not to force your own way forward in the wrong direction
@@tonypringles2285 I don’t understand why you are arguing against the spiritual side of this debate from the point of view of an atheist. Obviously the spiritual arguments are not for someone who doesn’t believe in the traditional Christian God, because we just disagree on too many premises to have a productive discussion. That’s why we also argue the practical side
@@CatholicElectrician lol what? this is perfectly fine from a spiritualist point of view. you are just far to archaic. are vaccines also evil in your mind?
@@tonypringles2285 Controlling your fate is quite literally the one quotation the devil uses the most often, it's not revolutionary and it's not clever. I can't control every aspect of my life, and I'm done trying to.
We have been praying and trying for a child for years, but due to several problems and past ilnesses have been unsuccesfull. I feel blessed to know that we still have a chance due to ivf. We love eachother, we tried, there is nothing wrong with that in my eyes. I get that its not the ideal way, but at least there is a way.
"Embryo adoption and traditional adoption are available options, yet you choose to create 10 children, discard 9, and feel satisfied with that? What about the scientific evidence showing that children born from in vitro fertilization have a higher risk of developing certain diseases or simply face more challenges in life?"
I feel like IVF should be a procedure that is reserved for couples who have tried _everything_ else to have a child, and should be conducted ethically; for example, attempt with one egg at a time ONLY unless multiple children are specifically desired. In essence, the goal should be to use the LEAST invasive and artificial method that is possible for the couple. To me, I see it as an _extreme_ medical intervention. Of course, I see the perspective laid forth here and I very much respect it.
There’s nothing I could do to put a child in my wife’s womb naturally, this doesn’t justify using immoral methods to do so. Adoption should be the only option.
I agree with problem #2, but 1 and 3 are non-issues. I am happy for that video though, as I was not aware of the reasons why it's not seen as ok by tons of Christians. Still, I remain for IVH, but problem #2 needs to be addressed.
I have scrolled through many of these comments, but I’ve not seen the question I wish to pose… Maybe I missed it. What is the churches position on what to do with all the embryos in frozen storage morally speaking?
As a protestant who is going to convert to Catholic, I really like watching/listening to your videos, and I love how you can explain so many things! Keep it up please! Praise be to Jesus Christ.
Father, I do appreciate your videos. They do help me grow, and be a better person. I kindly ask you to answer in public or privately my questions/concerns IVF could be an act of love; I personally believe that the love that a father and a mother have is not contingent how the egg and sperm meet. The conjugal act not always is an act of love, nor always romantic. The domination of technology is use in a daily basis to save lives of thousands or even millions of persons, and instead of degrading, elevates human life. Humanae vitae has ethical and scientific points, some of them undisputable, both some others could be subject to further discussion. What if you do not have extra embryos, what if you and your spouse only fertilize one egg at a time, and always implant the fertilized embryo? What about using a donated heart, or a donated kidney, or a donated cornea? Is the dignity of the heart, kidney or cornea donor degraded?
Please stick to the issue with IVF and not extrapolate to other issues. The IVF issue is the planned loss of life. How many failed attempts are reasonable?
Because that child was abandoned and needs a family. In IVF, the child is produced and purchased, because the parents think they need a child Edit: Also, the lines of parenthood are blurred in the cases he was talking about, like sperm donation, where your mother had another man’s baby
@@stevevasta I directly addressed your point. An adopted child is lacking a family and needs one, so a father and a mother can accept him into their family as one of their own. On the other hand, a couple that uses a sperm donor creates a confusing situation for the child. Now he is the product of his mother and a stranger. He did not come into the world as the product of the love of a man and a woman. He is separated from his biological father not because of some unfortunate circumstance, but because of the desires of his mother and her husband. They put their own wishes above the child’s natural right to his own mother and father
@@CatholicElectrician If this is "directly address[ing] [my] point," then one or both of us does not understand the meaning of the phrase in the English language. If a blood relationship is not necessary for "family" -- as we say about adoption -- then the missing blood relationship should not be a problem for surrogacy. It also shouldn't "confuse" the child in the least -- unless, of course, you blab it with the deliberate intent of causing such confusion, just to prove a point. I find it amusing that on TH-cam, I'm excoriated half the time for my perceived "religion," and the other half the time *by* the religious. If you think for yourself around here, you can't win for losing! Peace out.
@@stevevasta The problem is obviously not that one of the parents isn’t related to the child. This would also occur if a widow with a child remarried. The problem (in part) is this bizarre situation that has been created where one of the biological parents doesn’t even know or care about the child, and this is how it’s designed to happen. An adoption is a good thing that comes from a bad circumstance, but it would be wrong for a woman to conceive a child intending to give him to another set of parents once he is born. No one has a right to a child. The only individual with any relevant human rights in this subject is the child, who has the right to life, the right to be treated with human dignity, and the natural right to his biological mother and father
I do not entirely agree with you. For one thing if I was born from IVF I would not think anything of it. And I do absolutely agree that the fact that in many times IVF results in several unused embryos end up either being treated as chemicals to be used for other products or or to be destroyed but I have heard of some couples who are very pro-life who are unable to conceive children of their own knowing that many of the embryos are destroyed after IVF is successful. As a result they decide to use, Used embryos. Which if you think about it that's no different than adoption it's just it allows the couple to be able to get pregnant while saving embryos that would otherwise be destroyed.
"What does it do to the dignity of the child to know that they were not produced out of an act of love, but by a scientist putting together biological pieces in a lab?" This very video is perpetuating the stigma that child would experience. You are citing the problem as justification to perpetuate the problem. Also, without abortion or any other human intervention, many embryos fail to result in a birth anyway. In fact, most studies I was able to find say that a majority of naturally fertilized embryos do not survive until birth (and even the low estimates still say 40%). God clearly doesn't believe fertilized embryos are worthy of human dignity if he allows natural processes to destroy so many. In fact, such a rate makes the entire idea that destroying a fertilized embryo is somehow murder completely farcical.
Yeah I had the same thought. It's also cruel to tell people who have tried to conceive that they are no longer producing children out of an act of love if they use a different scientific method and like you said setting up the kid to feel that they are unnatural.
Well said. The only additional thing I would like talked about is. Even if done the “Right” way I still don’t think it’s ok because to me it’s like playing God. Which is why I always thought NFP made no sense to me because it seems that is playing God as well… would love to hear your thoughts.
Those teachings would be true if IVF was a substitute for natural conception but most of the time it is only used when natural conception is not possible. Second, most embryos are donated to other couples that cannot conceive. Many of the church's complaints can be applied to orphans too! I think in this case the church is taking a path that is too extreme. It would be better to put guard-rails like for example, limiting the testing of embryos, allowing the use of these techniques as only a last resort possibility and decrying surrogacy.
Thank you for how you handled this delicate topic. It’s important for everyone to recognize that having a child is not a human right and the ends do not justify the means
@@tonypringles2285Everyone has a right to live, not to have a child. Fundamentally IVF is a selfish act by people who believe that they MUST have a child of their own because they cannot conceive the notion of loving a child who has already been born who needs a home. Separate your notion of rights from the reality of desire. We do not have a right to something just because we want it.
The Bible is murky AT BEST on when exactly life begins, but yes, let's judge people over their reporductive choices based on one psalm and one prophet.
As with all medical care did God not create it as he created evolved humans! Does he not want us to evolve, " to be fruitful and multiply"? I had a very difficult pregnancy with my son. I had to have 2 surgeries in vitro to save his life! He is 25 today! Why is that OK? Based on this should I just have let him die, was that God's will? I believe that we should use the options God gave us to make the world a better place! Also you are wrong about treating surrogacy babies differently! My sister in law could not have a child so her sister carried her baby. They were very involved in the church so it was no secret! When they tried to get this baby christened the Catholic Church would not do it! They were very religious people who wanted a child! They ended up changing churches and kept this poor child's conception a secret! She is now 24! The church turned their back on them and made them ashamed! Where is the Churches forgiveness? I'm still Catholic but I struggle with many aspects of the judgement of the Catholic teachings. The moral superiority of people who never face these struggles are very quick to tell us how to live! You are a nice young man but out of touch and far to condescending on what it's like to be married or a struggling parent! It seems to be do as I say, but not as I do!
The general theme is it is an act used to separate responsibility from pleasure thus changing and degrading the relationship between the man and woman. The idea being they don't have to commit to each other and the naturally resulting child. Same for the prophylactic.
@@whatsup3270 prophylactics? it is a wide open field though, i need more context. ik condoms sometimes considered as a prophylactic in medical department cause it is prevent us from STD but vaccine, antibiotic or even surgery is a prophylactic treatment, surely we're not against that beauty of science right?? if what you meant was to refer birth control, or condom (just like what i explained) as a prophylactic then i can understand. btw i understand your opinion on vasectomy, eliminating the responsibility for the sake of pleasure.
@@matts-7566 A prophylactic is any action done to prevent. And thus, the issue a plan to prevent the natural actions and natural responsibilities. Science is not a player here, though there is a clash. On one hand how can we develop the science. And on the other hand, nature itself performs the same duties we ban from man. However, the Church points at nature not having intent, where the man has intent. If you haven't read double effect it might help to read it. fyi- I'm trying to restrict this to the teaching as my personal opinion isn't always aligned.
Except "playing God" doesn't actually mean anything, it's more of a value judgement than a real descriptor. You could go back a few centuries, explain what we have today and people back then would say that vaccination is "playing God", or artificial intelligence is "playing God".
life, as we know it , begins at conception , there a unique dna and genetic code after conception, if only around 7% of the eggs are implanted and the other discarded, in other worss killed, you cant be pro life and pro IVF..there is no coherence nor consistence in that stance
For me the biggest issue is with the people who is involved in the process, the way they treat human life as a product to freeze so it can be used latter, throw a bunch of them there so one sticks the landing and aborting the excess product ... Quite inhuman. And the single fact that around 70% of embryos die in the process is quite messed up too...
Sorry father but this is the way of the world and many people who can’t have children will do this, either the church will debate to see this is not immoral and an obvious act of God to allow life where nothing was possible naturally. I work in the field and we are all hopeful that all our patients can have the children they cannot naturally have on their own. Just saying, if helping women have children they will love and care for, pretty sure Jesus would approve.
Frankly, if anything brings me away from the catholic church, it will be this rhetoric. I work in IVF; we see loving couples able to have loving families, and there is no more fulfilling area than helping people build a family. IVF is no more sinful than the act of procreation itself. Saying that doctors shouldnt be involved is as silly as saying doctors shouldnt treat other conditions, some people have a natural difficulty procreating, using medicine to help is no different than using medicine to treat other conditions. As per the abortion point, not once have I seen babies being chosen and aborted in the uterus, idk where you got that from.
Claiming that IVF is somehow "undignified" is completely a matter of opinion. One might argue that it is in fact MORE dignified than the natural way. It's completely subjective. I doubt anyone who came into the world this way has any angst about it *unless someone puts it in their head that they should feel inferior about it*. It's far more transactional and exploitative to forces a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant to carry to term for some infertile couple to adopt. THAT is an affront to the intrinsic human worth of the woman or girl whose body is being used for someone else's benefit.
A couple that I know sought surrogacy, with the use of their genetic material but an unrelated woman would carry, and they specifically wanted twin girls. I can't say I'm terribly heartbroken that it didn't work out very early in the process. What if they'd only had boy embryos?
I think if children are born out of pure, boundless love (whether naturally or through ivf) they are sent through Our Merciful and loving Lord. If that is a sin committed by the parents then that is something the Lord will decide when the time comes not man. For now, He has provided a way for couples in need through science and we should all be thankful because He could’ve easily not provided that.
This does clarify a question I’ve had. Due to health issues I ended up was an unplanned tubal ligation. I was in surgery & even after signing do what you need to they checked with my mother is she was okay that if I ever had children it would be through IVF. Didn’t get at the time why they stressed that so much. It being a catholic hospital I get it now. Thanks for your videos, they help a lot.
@@tonypringles2285 Having children is a right. Having biological children isn’t. I’m unable to have a biological child, this would not justify using an immoral method to make my wife pregnant. Nobody’s saying the Church should dictate who gets kids.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai oh please you know for a fact the catholic church would for sure take control of who gets kids lol. and ivf is not immoral, god made it for us so we can use it
@@tonypringles2285 Brother, I’d rather we didn’t engage in unsubstantiated slander which has no connection to the topic. I haven’t made a single extraneous insult about the Governing Body you submit to, but I certainly could. The Church is not perfect, but that is because, like every other Earthly institution, it has fallen humans in it. Do you insert a ridiculous display of anti-Catholic bias every time you talk to one of us? Do you say the same thing about the Presbyterian Church of the USA? What about the Anglicans? Or is it just the Catholics acting as sleeper agents? God did not make IVF, the same way He did not make Eugenic Selection. Just because it’s possible through the use of scientific means doesn’t mean it’s moral or of God.
This is probably where we differentiate on opinion I personally see no problem with it. Especially since some people I know personally were born that way.
I would say that a IVF offspring is glad that the years and years their parents tried and went through difficulties trying to conceive and having failures shows that they love each-other and their child immensely. This is also where I differentiate with the Catholic Church.
and yet, second class dignity is there and authoritatively assigned. i am sorry, but i don`t think evangelization and motivational speeches should come as close as they do in this video. the church is abandoned by people to which it has awarded second hand dignity and the more people like you talk about it, the more nothing gets done. the true mark of humility is silence. maybe there should be more of it.
Wrll said Father. The sin is committed and doctors, parents, and all those involved have confession available because God is a merciful Father. God is the only creator of Life!
I often enjoy your videos but I struggle with the church's perspective on this. Couples resort to IVF because they are desperate for a child and it feels like your video lacks compassion or understanding for these parents.
Of course he lacks compassion in this area. One of the issues I find with the requirement that priest be celibate is that they ,and by extension church , have no first hand experience of marriage/family life. They cannot understand it and in my experience look down on it because they are forced to suppress their own desires. So long as all embryos are given a chance at life I have no issue with IVF, a month of daily injections and multiple other medical procedures with no promise of success seems like a huge act of love to me. Not every egg exposed to seamen fertilise, not every embryo implants and not every pregnancy results in a healthy live birth. It's still very much up to the will of God even if a couple uses ivf.
The entire process is unnatural. No doubt about that. It's actually really clear to see why the church has an issue with this. Having men play god in a laboratory with some fluid samples is as artificial as it can get.
@@thomaswaldron187 Also the argument that IVF relinquishes control to doctors and biologists is frankly strange, because I'm pretty sure traditional pregnancies rely on doctors and biologists anyway. Without them, pregnancy would be way more dangerous for both the woman and the child, and similarly IVF is typically done when traditional conception proves either dangerous or impossible.
It really isn't a problem. Everything you explained is silly. The "how romantic" line is also very indicative of conservative Catholics weird obsession with making sure people f the right way. Like imagine saying "if yer partner doesn't climax, then its not an act of love"
God is the author of how relationships should be. Why is the word "romantic" weird? Best outcomes for children generally include both parents in a loving relationship
@@gobigorgohome3745 first, the god is an author thing doesn't stand up under historical scrutiny. Abrahamic cultural and scriptural ideas of what a loving relationship is has changed over time. second, commenting or deciding how romantic one form insemination is over another, is just weird. like it would be really weird if you told your parents you were pregnant, and they asked "did he come inside you or did you use a needle?" and then they judged your love for one another based on the answer.
@@kutsopalso historically, marriage and procreation was more of a political and economic tool than out of “love”. Whether the husband loved his wife didn’t matter, whether the wife loved her husband *super* didn’t matter, what mattered is what both families got out of the arrangement. Also the women were basically barred from having real professions, so marrying up wasn’t really a choice for most. I still remember reading about how in Ancient Rome, some senators actively got made fun of for actually liking their wives.
It’s weird. Your videos in years past almost brought me back to the Catholic Church. This years videos have convinced that my decision to leave was correct. Wish you the best but I feel your videos have become less sympathetic.
Brothers and sisters, trust God when you pray it works. He said all we need to do is ask in prayers. My testimony spans from penury to $57,000 bimonthly, and you stay and doubt that he doesn't answer prayers. Make that altar now and spend time there. A change is in the way. Amen!!!
The most important objection is what happens to the "surplus" embryos not chosen. When we decide who should live, and who should not, the door to applying the same principle of expediency or eugenics to any human being is wide open, whether they are born or not, whether they are young or old.
I think it is prudent to remember that the vast majority of those embryos would not make it to term anyway. They have the potential for life, but that’s it.
@@steampunkedbull The point is not that most would not make it to term, but that none of them makes it to term based on eugenics and convenience. And who are we to decide who should live up to its potential, and who should not?
@@steampunkedbullWould you be convinced by a similar argument for abortion? If it were the case that most children wouldn’t survive, should we stop trying to save them?
@@CatholicElectrician depends on what the abortion is for. If the child is only unwanted, then I would be against the abortion. If it had some horrible condition that wouldn’t allow it to live outside the womb, then there’s nothing to save, it’s already doomed to pass.
Any couple doing IvF is because there is a genuine fertility issue that makes natural procreation impossible for having a baby! Obviously yhose against IVF have never had issues or they would be more fair. Plus adoption is really competitive and expensive and could be also exploitative by giving the baby/child to the highest bidder and the middle class couples are told they dont make enough etc!! Surrogacy costs near 100,000 dollars so I doubt many middle class couples are going that route! Many in the Church then make infertile couples feel left out and like they arent blessed, but then dont allow IVF!
@@theresastubblefield5706 Women have eggs die each month, not fertilised embryos, which is what the comment meant. The fertilised eggs which do die are equivalent to miscarriages and are tragic.
I am infertile and am against both IVF and surrogacy. The fact that adoption requires fees is a problem with America, not adoption. Most countries, including mine, do not require money for adoption.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai yeah, exactly, adoption would be competitive then! How does your country determine who gets a child if there's no fee, there would be a fight!
@@drewidlifestyle7883 You should understand what love even is, to understand Jesus was born from the purest love there can be. Be careful about condemning yourself with such blasphemies, dear brother. Thou, is probable that you not even believe in God or something like that, yet here you are in devouring Catholic religious videos for some self-projection reason. So that's that. God bless.
They usually only resort to the fancy science project when traditional pregnancies would prove difficult and/or dangerous. I'm not exactly sure how a woman risking her or her future child's life is more of a "labor of love" than doing something safer.
I think if children are born out of pure, boundless love (whether naturally or through ivf) they are sent through Our Merciful and loving Lord. If that is a sin committed by the parents then that is something the Lord will decide when the time comes not man. For now, He has provided a way for couples in need through science and we should all be thankful because He could’ve easily not provided that.
God did not provide a way to have a child that involves creating embryos just to destroy them. God can redeem what man has done, but do not call sin a gift from God.
we now have these options lets not look for problems.but we do have to keep in mind the ethical problems, is the new child loved? god has set us some problems to consider.
I would not judge a couple for having a kid. Objective vs subjective states of being in this world. It’s not easy to adopt and so many people cannot have kids bc of cancer treatments etc. Especially after the church abuse that has been present in Catholicism since Saint Peter Damian. Care to make a video just on that I guess not.
Perhaps the problem we should be addressing as a society is why it is so hard (and expensive) to adopt. That should not be used as an excuse to use IVF (which usually takes longer and costs more than the adoption process).
If abortion is a death cult, then IVF is a life cult. We cherish life, as given, and dictated by God. We don't fear death, as shown and sanctified by Jesus. Christianity is the perfect center.
I feel like that's hard to conclude but okay. You can have empathy and understand that playing God in a laboratory with some bodily fluids is at the very least, questionable. Just because we can meddle with baby creation doesn't mean we should.
@@robblaettler4589 to claim a child born using IVF is not born from love is legitimately a horrible unempathetic thing to say It’s not hard to conclude that
I have always had a problem with life begins at conception, because about 50% of conceived embryos do not emplant in the uterus and pass out with regular menstruation. This is usually because of severe genetic problems in the embryo. Women do not even know they have a fertilized an egg. Should we treat every period as a potential stillborn? Has God placed souls in these 1 week old embryos, to now wait for the second coming? Will they rise in the afterlife as embryos? As severely damaged people? I am a practicing Catholic, but I also have a degree in genetics. It doesn't seem to me that God imparts life at the moment of conception. By your own argument, that would make Him immoral for sacrificing so many embryos. We can argue that God, not man should be making this choice, but to claim that life is sacred from the moment of conception seems unfair to God.
I recommend that you investigate the "problem of evil". Because this might address your concerns about God being "immoral for sacrificing so many" children.
Life is transmitted, even in the petri dish two life forms meet and become one new form, which is a combination of the two earlier forms. The Church teaches we are to treat that as an entombed soul. That new person will also pass away as all do. Some estimates as up 80% of us pass away before the first anniversary of birth. They estimate up to 70% were never known to have exist. This is all part of the sanctity of life.
I'm also thinking the same but have no words to describe it as I don't have a degree in this area. "When does life begin? Does it begin at conception or at implantation, or somewhere else?"
@@drewidlifestyle7883 The request is reasonable but erred, Catholic Church teachings are Catechism not scripture. And all Church teachings are tied together with an overall plan. It is critical not to take a sentence or paragraph and assume it over rides all other aspects. So please bear that in mind as we proceed Catechism : 2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) are perhaps less reprehensible, yet remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children." "Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union . . . . Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person." Scripture references : Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Isaiah 49:5 And now the Lord says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him- for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord, and my God has become my strength- Isaiah 49:1 Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you peoples from afar. The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother he named my name. Psalm 139:1-24 To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. ... Galatians 1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Psalm 139:13-16 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Psalm 139:13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. Ephesians 1:4 Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love Isaiah 44:2 Thus says the Lord who made you, who formed you from the womb and will help you: Fear not, O Jacob my servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen. Jeremiah 1:4-5 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Luke 1:41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, Job 31:15 Did not he who made me in the womb make him? And did not one fashion us in the womb? Jeremiah 1:1-19 The words of Jeremiah, the son of Hilkiah, one of the priests who were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin, to whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, and until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah, the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the captivity of Jerusalem in the fifth month. Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” ... Genesis 2:7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. Luke 1:15 For he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
Several folks have posed questions to me. My answers have been deleted. It reminds me of the Catholic Church’s Index of Forbidden Books which was instituted in 1559 and lasted for almost four centuries until officially abolished in 1966 by Pope Paul VI. So apparently, we have here an Index of Forbidden Posts.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai I asked ChatGPT if any words in my post, which contained no harassment, misinformation or hate speech but did relate the sequence of events that resulted in the appointment of Supreme Court Justices, cause it to be deleted. After providing ChatGPT with the pertinent details of my post, the reply stated nothing in my post would cause it to be deleted.
@@F84Thunderjet sometimes it’s random I think. I commented as well but it ain’t showing up. It’s probably just glitched. I think the length of the comment can effect it to.
@@F84Thunderjet A.I deletes many posts. Adding references causes posts to be deleted. Long detailed posts which cover the question well are usually deleted (why I have no idea). And creators are allowed to delete posts. This is on ALL channels. If you have a remaining question, please repost it. I have often had to make 3-9 small posts to explain the issue, as a single post of the same will not be allowed.
One route rarely taken is trying to give life to "snowflakes" - the frozen embryos with no home, so to speak. Two women in my life have done this with mixed success. At least it's giving them a chance.
As an atheist, I have watched your videos with admiration as I considered you to be more open minded than other priests. It looks like I was wrong, I don't like your opinions on IVF at all. The fact that an egg cell is fertilized in a dish does not mean that the child is not born and raised from the love of the parents. The embryo, and later the faetus still grow in the mother's womb and get the nutrients and the building blocks from the mother. IVF is an alternative just for one step, not for the whole process. And to say that an IVF conceived child is not born from the love of the parents is simply wrong. If the parents love each other sincereley and cooperate in order to create a loving home for the child to be raised into, it has no relevance how the egg was fertilized. I hope that all the countries that call themselves free and democratic will respect the separation of the church and the state and will not ban IVF just because the church says so. I am glad that I am an atheist and that I take decisions based on my reason and not on what an imaginary god in the sky says. If me or my future wife will have fertility problems, I am sure that I will try IVF.
"more open minded than other priests" meaning you expected him to directly contradict official Church doctrine? Even if he wanted to support IVF, doing so would constitute mortal sin and supporting it publicly could get him excommunicated.
Personally I agree with you on the topic of love. Creating a human being through IVF and taking care of it in a loving and intended way is the most important thing and in my opinion strongly outweighs the "sins" he claimed. Nontheless, as a religious person, I don't back the attitude you ended your argument with. Your point of view is not validated by ridiculing the beliefs of others, as you are only creating a harsh atmosphere of conversation and therefore hinder your own argument from being taken (deservedly) seriously.
Do you support abortion then, and believe the church should stay out of it as well? You can call it arbitrary and opposed to reason, but there is real truth and beauty in the preservation of human life and dignity at every stage
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Thank you for including the part about those born via means of in vitro and other means of fertilization. Their lives are no less important because of it. God still has a plan and a salvation for their lives.
I was conceived that way. I've been a devout Catholic since my early childhood.
And every time I read or hear clergymen speak against it as being wrong, it feels like their words are snapping Your neck.
Just try to understand that feeling, fellows.
I can understand the talk against homosexuality (I'm not one), because often the people choose it in some way...
but this is just so... IDK how to even describe it
@@Tony-ci7ys Do not be discouraged brother, this is the same case as the Jews blaming Jesus for doing miracles and healing people during the Sabbat.
What was more important, the healing, the miracle, the life, the love, those poor people whose life were saved, or the religious rule of the sabbat ? Of course it was the people’s lives that mattered the most.
Jesus encouraged us to heal, told us that future disciples will do even greater miracles than him (well we walked on the moon, and can make infertile parents have children and give life, aren’t those hugely miraculous ?)
Since when giving life has became a sin ? The child’s DNA is still fully half dad’s DNA and half mom’s DNA, it’s still two flesh united in one and the perfect representation of his parents love. IVF can be actually harsher to live mentally and show much more resilience and love than let’s say.. someone born from accident. IVF kids were fully wanted.
If someone is preaching hopelessness and death, then that preach can only come from demons. Jesus gave hope to everyone including to the worst of society, he does not have a single preach where he did put a believer in a hopeless situation or made that believer feel like a second class lesser human. The whole contrary, he has what is good even inside a prostitute’s heart. He did spread hope, life (literally rose the Deads), and love all along his path.
@@loupbleu3177 Thank You much... it's not really about any disencouragement, it just hurts. Yes, I used to think it was a sin, but later I realized what You write as well - I was much wanted and loved!
@@Tony-ci7ys I don't think it's wrong that you have been conceived that way, you are here and have the same worth as anyone else. What's problematic is what happened to any siblings you have that have not had a chance to live like you did, you're the lucky one who made it (and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it, none of it is your fault). Thankfully now, frozen embryos can be donated to other couples who can then carry them to term and give them the chance to grow up in a family, instead of being discarded. My wife and I are in the process of adopting embryos, all our kids will have been conceived through IVF. The biological parents just couldn't live in good conscience with the idea of discarding a single embryo.
@@Tony-ci7ys I’d like to add that Jesus himself wasn’t born from a « natural » intercourse but rather from the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit (which we can call an artificial insemination). God himself chose to take a human body in this way, while he could have just assembled his adult body’s atoms, or the body of a baby born of a father and mother’s union.
It’s incredible how no matter the era he is very close to us and has suffered in every physical and mental way that a human can, including being seen as an « unnatural » birth (or worse, you can imagine). When this priest can say things like « how romantic » his words directly hit Christ and he doesn’t even realize it.
I always appreciate that you are willing to speak your mind with respect and without fear or censorship. I wish more people would do the same so we could all learn from each other instead of just accepting the voice of those who speak louder.
I understand all the arguments. I even see them for my own life and deal with the very big pain of my infertility. But I can't judge other parents whose need for a child was so huge that they had to try everything at least once. I know such a child whose conception might not have been romantic. But it was very much an act of love.
That’s a good perspective. We should never judge others for their possible sins.
On the other hand, we shouldn’t run from the issue. I wouldn’t encourage you to rebuke everyone who uses IVF, but we also shouldn’t become complacent about the sins of our society, lest we be held accountable as well
There was a time when I believed that honest desire for a good result made my decisions okay. Now, no matter what, I must look to the church for guidance and trust our Eternal God. Pray that other Catholics find the courage to do the same.
I understand you, dear sister, and I'm truly sorry about your case. But, please, be careful, for you are putting your own desire over what is correct. That's what the original sin is about. The need for God should be greater than the need for whatever else, even a child.
Read it this way: «If that need for a child was so huge that they had to try *sin* at least once...» and let that speak out by itself. In the end, how can it be an act of love, when you are stripping all that makes love, love in the process? Turning it into something mechanical, into a _loveless_ act of producing life, even if we are willing to give love to that life [as Father Casey pointed out.]
God bless.
Can you kill because the motivation for the killing was love or passion or desire or all three at once?
I am sure people born with the assist of IVF are blessed to be there .
Oh gawd, so why are couples who are past childbearing age married in the church. There is no point according to this video.
@@drewidlifestyle7883Sex is not only for the purpose of creating life, but that is one of the primary purposes. Some people do not get to have what they desire, even if it’s a great good. I think it’s important to trust in God’s plan rather than try to force your own way in the wrong direction
What about the dozens of others who are discarded?
@@carolyngreen223they could adopt
@@carolyngreen223 My dear sister, marriage's main goal is procreation, indeed, fair enough, but is not the only goal. To become one flesh, supporting each other and finding a companion in life is also part of the deal. Plus you should never doubt God's power and will, older couples can also bear children.
God bless.
Fr Carsey, this is a bold step at raising awareness on the church's position on IVF. It's really an emotional issue that has beoken the mind of many couples especially in the developing world like Nigeria where having children is traditionally defined to determine the survival of marriages. Couples without any child are looked down upon and the bug most often goes to the woman. In-laws will always blame her and not let her be. Catholic and other christian marriages are not spared, they have collapsed not because the couple don't love each other but may be weak to withstand pressure from the extended family. Fr Carsey, can you kindly make a video to assauge the minds of such Catholic and Christian families and couples undergoing this traumatic experience of childlessness? They need to be encouraged to spiritually stay afloat in their faith as we are all human. Well done.
Refreshing to see the sort of content that actually impact Catholic life and not just more culture war/antiwoke stuff most other online Catholics spend their time talking about. It’s time we looked inward.
I do appreciate these channels that talk about Catholicism with minimal political commentary
That's an oxymoron, though. Are you saying those other things other channels speak about doesn't impact Catholic life or that they shouldn't bother us? Despite the fact Catholics are called to care about society and look after it and all its members, despite them hating us and even persecuting us?
@@GranMaese a lot of the stuff I see people go on and on about especially related to wokeness has 0 impact on my life and the decisions I make. If you want to care about society, live an upright life.
@@reginaldphillips7615 So you are Catholicism itself, my friend?
You're right, though that if you want to care about society, you should live a Catholic [upright] life, that's the whole point. But you must first define what an "upright" life even is. Also how do you even know they have 0 impact in your life? Perhaps they don't at first glance but may come back later in ways you not even expected, because you didn't learn to deal with them on time. Just saying.
Have a good one.
This should be one of the least controversial teachings of the Church. I admire Fr. Casey for not being afraid to upset the apple cart from time to time.
Non-Catholics insulted Catholic women for decades and popularized misogynistic terms like "baby factories".
Yet when faced with a real baby factory, all of a sudden they openly endorse it!
Thank you Father. You have blessed us here with many many videos, some of which have returned me to the Church after 12 years astray. Please pray for me and I will always pray for you. God bless you and keep you Father.
It really confuses me when I see Americans politicians and pro-life activists condemn abortion, but at the same time defend IVF. In Europe its unthinkable for pro-life activists to approve of IVF. For the exact reasons fr. Casey mentions.
American politics these days are incredibly broken due to the two party system forcing folks into camps who are entirely defined purely in terms of simply opposing the other camp, leading to incoherent policies mishmashed between incompatible philosophies that are reinforced by the party mentality.
Europe tends to have more Parliamentary systems using more proportional election styles, making many parties more viable, and thus leading to more coherent political groups. You no longer have to fit everything under a single tent quite as much (although governing coalitions do still blend this together a bit).
Thank you for articulating the position of the church so clearly. Wether a person agrees or disagrees, I don't think there is much room for confusion about the problematic aspects of IVF.
Father Casey, I agree with some of the moral issues surrounding in vitro fertilization. In particular the destruction of embryos that are not implanted, etc. But I was a little surprised at the insensitivity expressed concerning couples who go through this route. It came across a bit mocking when you said "how romantic," and implied that there was no love in the process. Most couples who go this route go through much of the process together, deeply love each other, and deeply want to share familial love with a very -much-wanted child. Most of this video I agree with but I hope you will consider how your tone may come across to people who are already emotionally suffering due to infertility. I experienced secondary infertility myself and I did not choose in vitro, but I very well understand how traumatic it is to experience infertility and I hope you will take a more pastoral approach to couples experiencing this in the future.
Trump just came out in support of IVF and forcing insurance to cover it. Timely release. Thank you for explaining the church's position!
Yeah, the Republicans are very divided on this issue. Some have tried pushing it to the front of their agenda to ban it while Trump is for it.
It kinda sucks the choice is abortion up until the moment of birth or IVF. Still a clear choice if you ask me but shows we got a long way to go as a society
@@samuelanders7597 Abortion until the moment of birth is rhetoric, not fact.
@@drewidlifestyle7883No he did make a statement the other day saying that IVF is a great thing because babies are great
Politically, I think Republicans should duck the issue for now since either choice will lose more votes than it gains
@@CatholicElectricianhe changed his stance three times in 25 hours
People today born through IVF are proof of God's limitless grace and mercy. That doesn't mean we can in any way condone the transactional and destructive nature of the process. There ARE people picking and choosing what traits they want in their child already. People are becoming commodities.
I was born through IVF because my parents tried years and years the natural way but they were not successful. IVF was that miracle to them. I think it opened the “flood gates” so to speak as my two younger brothers came as sudden wonderful surprises naturally. I know the Catholic Church is not saying this but the way they are arguing against IVF, it FEELS like I should not even be here, I shouldn’t have known my parents, my brothers, this world, or God.
@jcrader5677 It was a miracle that you were successfully born, yes, but in return any other egg and sperm cells that successfully joined and created a human zygote were destroyed. With the Church's belief that all life has value and dignity from conception to natural death, that means a lot of life was killed, but again your life has value and dignity, too. Maybe God let you be born from IVF so that the destruction would stop. I think them being able to conceive naturally afterward was a pretty clear sign from God that if they turned to Him he would've given them you naturally, too. And even if your parents didn't use IVF to make a designer baby, there are people that are doing that, further devaluing human life and turning babies into mere "things" you can customize like a Build a Bear. It's a very concerning practice.
@@jcrader5677he said at the end and the Church says that you matter, that you are a gift just like any child. No matter how we are conceived.
@@themshann I know that’s what he said. It just feels like the opposite.
Frankly I think some of these arguments are weak. Saying that IVF "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists", I'm pretty sure most normal pregnancies do that anyway? For example, I was born via a c-section, something you absolutely need a doctor for, was that entrusting my life to a doctor? What's the difference? Also, it's my understanding that people don't do IVF for funsies, it's done when traditional pregnancy would prove dangerous or impossible, so the argument about it depersonalizing and objectifying women and their children falls flat when the alternative is the woman either risking their life or having no child at all.
And depending on the context, I see no objectification in surrogacy. Like, if poor women are compelled to do it to survive, then yeah that's pretty messed up, but if a woman's doing it for an infertile friend/family member so they can have a child, I honestly think that's sweet.
@@Colddirector why is hiring a nanny or governess to take on many of the tasks of raising children is common practice and apparently raises no ethical concerns but gestating the embryo is ethically problematic. I don’t see the difference
@@Colddirector These are excellent arguments. Very compelling and well presented
Brother, battles make us who we are which includes many things including this issue, if you so crave a child and can't conceive maybe look for adoption, if you are really depressed about this matter maybe then consider in vitro as a last option. If this process becomes a widespread practice then there will be issues, and the process will be exploited. church is for the masses and it will condemn such things. C section to save a child already alive and creating children in labs is different, and the nanny argument? Brother he says if multiple embryos all succeed they'll abort unwanted fetuses on parents will , can you not draw a line connecting to abortion
Also brother people do use this for fun, models use surrogacy to save their body shape, if these proceses are commercialized then there will be lots of women who will be employed for sole purpose of carrying other women's children
@@vsr5557 I'm not a catholic nor a christian, and I am not looking to have a child at this time. I'm just responding to the arguments in the video I found to be weak. I am not against abortion, but obviously I am neither able nor interested in arguing its justifiability from a biblical perspective.
To be clear, I'm sure there are some people who do IVF for frivolous reasons, but from what I've seen it's overwhelmingly reserved for if traditional methods fail. And plenty of beneficial technologies can be abused, the Industrial Revolution is a classic example of that, it's better and more pragmatic to legally regulate the practice so it can't be abused.
Having given birth, I don't see any parallel between being pregnant and baby-sitting. I also understand why most of surrogate mothers are poor... would I be so generous to give birth to a friend? Maybe not. I wonder how I have managed to be so generous to birth my own.
I used to be fine with the idea but I have to admit I'm a bit more on the fence now. I didn't know about the excess embryos and what's done with them. The ability to pick and choose which one gets to survive reeks a little too much of eugenics to me.
How do you feel about adoption?
People literally choose their child
@@drewidlifestyle7883 But the other children are not disposed of, are they?
@@drewidlifestyle7883 It's not about the ones who are chosen, it's about the ones who aren't. An orphan that never gets chosen still gets to become an adult.
@@rusticcloud3325 Sometimes. Sometimes they're put into storage. Sometimes they're sent off to labs for research.
There are a few options for unused embryos:
They are simply discarded. They are donated for science purposes, much like one could donate their bodies to science after their death. They can be placed on the shelf, but this option has a price because freezer space isn't unlimited; it is, in essence, stalling for time. There is the option of donating an embryo to another prospective couple, but this needs to be legally arranged before anything starts and all parties have to agree.
These options also apply for the situations where one or both parents might die, they cancel the entire process, or they split up.
Remember everyone. The Catholic teaching is that for the sexual act between husband and wife should be PROCREATIVE and UNITIVE.
Contraception distorts the sexual act between husband and wife because it renders it not open to life. It’s still considered unitive but not procreative.
IVF distorts the sexual act because it takes the unitive away and therefore only leaves it as solely procreative.
This is why the act of IVF is morally wrong because it’s a disorder or distortion of the sexual act just like contraception.
This doesn’t mean the life conceived from IVF is somehow bad or immoral but we can still say through the church’s teachings that the method and way the life came about is immoral.
I have a beautiful child, a true gift from God, who was conceived by my wife and I with the assistance of IVF. She is baptized a Catholic, she will have her first communion in the spring, and she is already making choices that show she is a good, empathetic, faithful, and loving human being.
If I’m a sinner for adding such an incredible little girl to Jesus’ flock, then God’s will be done.
Nevertheless, the birth of my daughter is a true and visible miracle of God, it is something my heart will never be contrite about, but will always be grateful to our Lord; for in my heart it was not a sin, nor a mistake, but rather a true blessing bestowed upon my family by the merciful Lord our God.
I say this not being haughty against church teaching in general, but standing in awe at personally witnessing God’s love, blessings, and irrevocable mercy. At this, I can only rejoice.
Did you watch the video? He never said that children produced from IVF are bad
Beautifully said. And I agree with it all. May God Bless you and your beautiful family.
@@mr.sandwich3939 Yes I did. I agree, he didn’t. Yet he said that the Church opposes IVF and the parents who choose it go against church teachings. My comment addresses exactly this. For many good kids come to God loving families through IVF. One thing I didn’t mention, which I should, is we didn’t know and never heard prior that the Church opposed IVF. That wouldn’t have changed our decision to go forward with it after years of trying. As I said, God blessed us and we were successful immediately. Thank you.
@@spacemanspiff3052 Assuming that your wife's other eggs were fertilized and became human lives, what happened to them?
I pray that God convicts you even further to repent for your IVF, even though you have a beautiful Daughter that you love.
Excellent and well thought out explanation of a highly emotional topic. Thank you, Padre!
Thank you for being so clear, concise and factual.
The mix of comments just proves what is already known. Many Catholics disagree with this teaching, which is unsurprising. The better question is should people who aren't Catholic be dictated by the State as whether or not they can have IVF.
The more important question is "should the State dictate whether or not they can have an abortion?"
Because the core question is the abortion question, than the secondary issue of people losing their dignity by eliminating the sexual act (IVF generally) and gestation of their children (as is the specific case in surrogacy).
@@toddlundand the question behind that question that the right ignores if you give the government power forcing women to give birth does it then slowly gain the power to force women not to.
It is historical fact the government has in fact forcibly sterilized people in the past and it’s not exactly inconceivable they would again given the power
@@toddlundI love my comments on government overreach keep getting deleted
@@drewidlifestyle7883 well I'm not deleting them. But I guess you're free to answer my comment's question too.
@@toddlundit’s government overreach that is the answer
Edit; I also didn’t imply you deleted them. Reading comprehension needs a refresh
Thank you , Father. I appreciate the time and effort that you invested in order to show us the reasoning behind the Church’s teachings.
Well said, Father Casey. I just want to put in my two cents about another issue I have with IVF. There are so many children out there with no parents or with parents who are unable to fulfill their commitments as parents. It bothers me that people go out of their way to conceive when these children need love too. I've always lived by the idea that one does not need to be of the same blood to be family, and I think it's terribly selfish that so many people choose IVF over adoption.
Knowing the Church teaching is useful because if you go down this road you need to be ready to make big calls about life.
I did struggle with the romantic comment. Often the road to conception is full of charts, tests and rather un romatic time pressures (just something to consider). Afterall, we can will things all we want but it is God's will that creates. We are co creators, stewards and partners not authors of life. Big hugs to the IVF children reading this, you are a gift from God.
Thank you for speaking out on this ❤️
I, a Protestant, agree.
You probably have children.
Well said Father, thank you for this. People need to understand that child is a gift and not a right.
cringe take
What’s your point of view regarding policy on this subject?
I understand the push to ban abortion, since the Church’s understanding is that abortion is murder. But let’s say an IV treatment that uses 1 egg at a time, so no aborted eggs?
I think the best way to frame my question is, what’s the point of view regarding the separation of Church and State? In my view, the issue of IV is mostly a faith matter, so it shouldn’t be applied to law (since it would apply to people that do not share that faith, and that opens a nasty precedent that could even backfire to Christians in general).
Separation of church and state is separating the secular state from the church, not the other way around. If we truly believe in the one Lord above, why would we not want His laws to be governing us?
@@Jaximus37 because people would follow it out of fear and not their own free will. Also your same argument can be used against you, just look how other religions are treated in the Middle East. If Christianity becomes a minority, would you want some other religion imposing their rules on you?
I don’t think the Church has any views on separating Church from State. The Church wouldn’t want the State to force everyone to be Christian, but that’s because it’s wrong, not because it’s a government overreach. I think the Church’s position is that you should not be allowed to sin in such a way that harms an unwilling participant, such as creating a child outside of the marital act or prematurely ending that child’s life.
Let me know if you see any holes in this position because I just thought about it
@@Tarek172839why do we make laws for anything? If we make a law against murder, then people will only refrain from murdering someone because they are afraid of the law, not "from their free will". But you see we understand that it's better for everyone to be following the law even if some people are doing it for the wrong reasons, than for there to be no law at all.
@@CatholicElectrician I feel like everyone thinks Christianity being in power in government would mean it would have to force everyone to be Christian but, that just doesn't make sense to me. Having laws that are of Christian origin does not mean we would force everyone to be Christian. That would be what Islam does.
What I was implying was Christian values and morals in a governmental state. Not the church ruling over all like a dictatorship.
If a child is born, a child is born. The act of wanting to create life, if consensual between parents, is a gift. The logic provided would suggest that even in sexual assault, if the woman became pregnant, the child would be considered as a gift....which, is a hard pill to swallow. Maybe for some it is. As a scientist and catholic, I strongly feel religion is very archaic in thought still. It is a miracle alone that a fertilization event leads all the way to birth of a baby healthy enough to then survive. You can think of multiple embryos implanted/destroyed as killing life, but it biologically, there is the POTENTIAL of life at conception. Many embryos fail during IVF, they each could be considered a separate fertilization act. Some woman chose, and depending on the situation, if two embryos take, to let them continue, then you get twins. If God did not want children as "gifts" to be born under any of these circumstances, then they would never be successful. The church should reposition that the very fact that medicine and science CAN help people bring children in the world, that is also a GIFT that God provided the doctors/scientists in order to HELP those.
Never go against God's will. Science was not used to create life. Only the Holy Spirit does. Be careful with commiting blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
The idea that murder is wrong is archaic. Doesn’t mean that’s not true.
The church should not change stance on something because society, and what it can do, changes. God is eternal and so is His word. While new technology requires the church to respond, the philosophy (theology, really) behind the response remains the same.
Thank you for making this video. There are a LOT of conservatives, and even many Catholics, who don't understand this.
I've followed your channel for some time, as while i was raised and remain an Agnostic-Atheist I have a great deal of respect for the Franciscan order and you in particular. You're succinct and direct, and if more priests were as you were Christianity as a whole would be in a much better state.
And with that background, I feel I can tell you its stances like this that are part of why younger people continue to avoid the Church. Even if its meant well, it comes across as fearful of change and technological advancement, and smells of attempts to control peoples lives for reasons that even when so well explained seem frivolous at best to a Secular mindset.
Its things like this, and asserting life begins at conception, that make the Church the subject of everything from jokes to ire, and in many cases far worse. Paired with the history of the Church - recent and historic - it all comes across as Archaic at best, and as a denial of reality at worst.
I don't have a solution for you, but so long as these remain true the Catholic church will continue to shrink, because the type of conservatism that agrees with these views will flock more to Islam than Christianity.
Life is transmitted it does not begin, however the new combination is formed at conception. You can read about Quickening a long controversial subject.
I’m 19, the Church’s extremely consistent and logical moral code is one of the main reasons I first gained an interest in investigating and joining it.
Point of fact: The Church ius not "shrinking". It is growing by leaps and bounds except in the West, and even in the West there are signs of improvement (i.e., in France). The teachings put forth in Humanae Vitae have nothing to do with "fear of technological advncement"., and is not an "attempt to control peoples' lives". It is a clear, unwavering explanation of the truth as Our Lord comissioned Peter and his sucessors to preach. If you have "respect" for St. Francis, then shed your Agnosticism/Atheism and find your way to God. He is waiting for you.
@@kennethcostigan1367why do you think it’s impossible to respect someone without converting to their religion? The way you snidely put respect in scare quotes speaks to a really ugly trait I see in modern Christians - the presumption to know what’s going on in someone else’s head, as if OP doesn’t “really” respect Francis.
Also generally atheists in the west are ex-Christians. It’s not like they haven’t tried seeking god already.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchaiI don’t think a consistent moral code is a good thing if that code is wrong. For example, someone believing the exact same thing at 18 and 80 speaks to a lack of development, not virtue.
Just adopt at this point
Thank you, Father, thank you.
The thing about gifts is that they aren't guaranteed. The Lord knows best. One could make the argument that IVF would fail if it isn't meant to be, but that feels like a bit of a stretch in logic in one way or another.
Certainly true. There are good ways to be a practical father or mother, including adoption and foster care; and there are many ways that you can be a spiritual mother or father to young ones in your family, church, and community. God has a plan for you, so it’s best not to force your own way forward in the wrong direction
@@CatholicElectrician thats not true. nothing is fated to happen with any person. your fate is entirely you're own
@@tonypringles2285 I don’t understand why you are arguing against the spiritual side of this debate from the point of view of an atheist. Obviously the spiritual arguments are not for someone who doesn’t believe in the traditional Christian God, because we just disagree on too many premises to have a productive discussion. That’s why we also argue the practical side
@@CatholicElectrician lol what? this is perfectly fine from a spiritualist point of view. you are just far to archaic. are vaccines also evil in your mind?
@@tonypringles2285 Controlling your fate is quite literally the one quotation the devil uses the most often, it's not revolutionary and it's not clever. I can't control every aspect of my life, and I'm done trying to.
We have been praying and trying for a child for years, but due to several problems and past ilnesses have been unsuccesfull. I feel blessed to know that we still have a chance due to ivf. We love eachother, we tried, there is nothing wrong with that in my eyes. I get that its not the ideal way, but at least there is a way.
Adopt.
"Embryo adoption and traditional adoption are available options, yet you choose to create 10 children, discard 9, and feel satisfied with that? What about the scientific evidence showing that children born from in vitro fertilization have a higher risk of developing certain diseases or simply face more challenges in life?"
Thank you for this very pertinent and timely video, father!!
I feel like IVF should be a procedure that is reserved for couples who have tried _everything_ else to have a child, and should be conducted ethically; for example, attempt with one egg at a time ONLY unless multiple children are specifically desired.
In essence, the goal should be to use the LEAST invasive and artificial method that is possible for the couple. To me, I see it as an _extreme_ medical intervention.
Of course, I see the perspective laid forth here and I very much respect it.
There’s nothing I could do to put a child in my wife’s womb naturally, this doesn’t justify using immoral methods to do so. Adoption should be the only option.
Well said Father Casey, I hope more people can see the error of IVF. You explained it in simple and easy to understand terms.
there is no error
I agree with problem #2, but 1 and 3 are non-issues. I am happy for that video though, as I was not aware of the reasons why it's not seen as ok by tons of Christians. Still, I remain for IVH, but problem #2 needs to be addressed.
I have scrolled through many of these comments, but I’ve not seen the question I wish to pose… Maybe I missed it. What is the churches position on what to do with all the embryos in frozen storage morally speaking?
that's a really good question, I hope someone comes up with a good answer
Life is a miracle regardless of how it got there.
True. But I hope you’re not using this to justify IVF, as this argument could also be applied to r*pe.
Very well said. Thank you, and God bless.
Thank you Fr for the video. Very interesting topic! I enjoy these. Controversial topics stimulate great discussion!
As a protestant who is going to convert to Catholic, I really like watching/listening to your videos, and I love how you can explain so many things! Keep it up please! Praise be to Jesus Christ.
If parenthood sans the physical act of conception disenfranchises parenthood, then surely, you would disapprove of adoption.
Father, I do appreciate your videos. They do help me grow, and be a better person.
I kindly ask you to answer in public or privately my questions/concerns
IVF could be an act of love; I personally believe that the love that a father and a mother have is not contingent how the egg and sperm meet.
The conjugal act not always is an act of love, nor always romantic.
The domination of technology is use in a daily basis to save lives of thousands or even millions of persons, and instead of degrading, elevates human life.
Humanae vitae has ethical and scientific points, some of them undisputable, both some others could be subject to further discussion.
What if you do not have extra embryos, what if you and your spouse only fertilize one egg at a time, and always implant the fertilized embryo?
What about using a donated heart, or a donated kidney, or a donated cornea?
Is the dignity of the heart, kidney or cornea donor degraded?
Please stick to the issue with IVF and not extrapolate to other issues. The IVF issue is the planned loss of life. How many failed attempts are reasonable?
"Blurring the lines of parenthood"? How do you reconcile that with the concept, in adoption, that "family" is more than mere blood relation?
Because that child was abandoned and needs a family. In IVF, the child is produced and purchased, because the parents think they need a child
Edit: Also, the lines of parenthood are blurred in the cases he was talking about, like sperm donation, where your mother had another man’s baby
@@CatholicElectrician You didn't address my point -- you ignored it, and just underlined Fr. Casey's.
@@stevevasta I directly addressed your point. An adopted child is lacking a family and needs one, so a father and a mother can accept him into their family as one of their own. On the other hand, a couple that uses a sperm donor creates a confusing situation for the child. Now he is the product of his mother and a stranger. He did not come into the world as the product of the love of a man and a woman. He is separated from his biological father not because of some unfortunate circumstance, but because of the desires of his mother and her husband. They put their own wishes above the child’s natural right to his own mother and father
@@CatholicElectrician If this is "directly address[ing] [my] point," then one or both of us does not understand the meaning of the phrase in the English language.
If a blood relationship is not necessary for "family" -- as we say about adoption -- then the missing blood relationship should not be a problem for surrogacy. It also shouldn't "confuse" the child in the least -- unless, of course, you blab it with the deliberate intent of causing such confusion, just to prove a point.
I find it amusing that on TH-cam, I'm excoriated half the time for my perceived "religion," and the other half the time *by* the religious. If you think for yourself around here, you can't win for losing! Peace out.
@@stevevasta The problem is obviously not that one of the parents isn’t related to the child. This would also occur if a widow with a child remarried. The problem (in part) is this bizarre situation that has been created where one of the biological parents doesn’t even know or care about the child, and this is how it’s designed to happen. An adoption is a good thing that comes from a bad circumstance, but it would be wrong for a woman to conceive a child intending to give him to another set of parents once he is born. No one has a right to a child. The only individual with any relevant human rights in this subject is the child, who has the right to life, the right to be treated with human dignity, and the natural right to his biological mother and father
I do not entirely agree with you. For one thing if I was born from IVF I would not think anything of it.
And I do absolutely agree that the fact that in many times IVF results in several unused embryos end up either being treated as chemicals to be used for other products or or to be destroyed but I have heard of some couples who are very pro-life who are unable to conceive children of their own knowing that many of the embryos are destroyed after IVF is successful. As a result they decide to use, Used embryos. Which if you think about it that's no different than adoption it's just it allows the couple to be able to get pregnant while saving embryos that would otherwise be destroyed.
And what is the value of the embryos lost?
@@whatsup3270 it human life
"What does it do to the dignity of the child to know that they were not produced out of an act of love, but by a scientist putting together biological pieces in a lab?" This very video is perpetuating the stigma that child would experience. You are citing the problem as justification to perpetuate the problem.
Also, without abortion or any other human intervention, many embryos fail to result in a birth anyway. In fact, most studies I was able to find say that a majority of naturally fertilized embryos do not survive until birth (and even the low estimates still say 40%). God clearly doesn't believe fertilized embryos are worthy of human dignity if he allows natural processes to destroy so many. In fact, such a rate makes the entire idea that destroying a fertilized embryo is somehow murder completely farcical.
Yeah I had the same thought. It's also cruel to tell people who have tried to conceive that they are no longer producing children out of an act of love if they use a different scientific method and like you said setting up the kid to feel that they are unnatural.
@EvilEgg331🤦🏻♂️cmon now you’re just speaking for God
Well said. The only additional thing I would like talked about is. Even if done the “Right” way I still don’t think it’s ok because to me it’s like playing God. Which is why I always thought NFP made no sense to me because it seems that is playing God as well… would love to hear your thoughts.
Those teachings would be true if IVF was a substitute for natural conception but most of the time it is only used when natural conception is not possible. Second, most embryos are donated to other couples that cannot conceive. Many of the church's complaints can be applied to orphans too!
I think in this case the church is taking a path that is too extreme. It would be better to put guard-rails like for example, limiting the testing of embryos, allowing the use of these techniques as only a last resort possibility and decrying surrogacy.
I was made this way. Apparently my parents tried 2 or 3 times in a normal way. But bc it didn't work they tried this way and i was made
I pray one day IVF will end, and the rest of the frozen embryos can be adopted, and we can end this nonsense forever 🙏🏻💜 no more surrogates too!
Thank you for how you handled this delicate topic. It’s important for everyone to recognize that having a child is not a human right and the ends do not justify the means
thats not true. everyone has the right to have children
@@tonypringles2285Everyone has a right to live, not to have a child. Fundamentally IVF is a selfish act by people who believe that they MUST have a child of their own because they cannot conceive the notion of loving a child who has already been born who needs a home. Separate your notion of rights from the reality of desire. We do not have a right to something just because we want it.
Adam came to life upon God giving him breath. The church's stance on life beginning at conception is based on shoddy tehology.
The Bible is murky AT BEST on when exactly life begins, but yes, let's judge people over their reporductive choices based on one psalm and one prophet.
AKA is Solid Snake allowed in Catholicism (Sort of)
As with all medical care did God not create it as he created evolved humans! Does he not want us to evolve, " to be fruitful and multiply"? I had a very difficult pregnancy with my son. I had to have 2 surgeries in vitro to save his life! He is 25 today! Why is that OK? Based on this should I just have let him die, was that God's will? I believe that we should use the options God gave us to make the world a better place! Also you are wrong about treating surrogacy babies differently! My sister in law could not have a child so her sister carried her baby. They were very involved in the church so it was no secret! When they tried to get this baby christened the Catholic Church would not do it! They were very religious people who wanted a child! They ended up changing churches and kept this poor child's conception a secret! She is now 24! The church turned their back on them and made them ashamed! Where is the Churches forgiveness? I'm still Catholic but I struggle with many aspects of the judgement of the Catholic teachings. The moral superiority of people who never face these struggles are very quick to tell us how to live! You are a nice young man but out of touch and far to condescending on what it's like to be married or a struggling parent! It seems to be do as I say, but not as I do!
I don’t agree with it but some have difficulty getting pregnant so have to turn to this.
i think the catholic church should come out against organ donations.
Father, can you do a video about contraceptions? especially vasectomy (cause im a man and i wanna how Catholic Church approach to that)
@EvilEgg331 not exactly
The general theme is it is an act used to separate responsibility from pleasure thus changing and degrading the relationship between the man and woman. The idea being they don't have to commit to each other and the naturally resulting child. Same for the prophylactic.
@@whatsup3270 prophylactics? it is a wide open field though, i need more context.
ik condoms sometimes considered as a prophylactic in medical department cause it is prevent us from STD but vaccine, antibiotic or even surgery is a prophylactic treatment, surely we're not against that beauty of science right??
if what you meant was to refer birth control, or condom (just like what i explained) as a prophylactic then i can understand.
btw i understand your opinion on vasectomy, eliminating the responsibility for the sake of pleasure.
@@matts-7566 A prophylactic is any action done to prevent. And thus, the issue a plan to prevent the natural actions and natural responsibilities. Science is not a player here, though there is a clash. On one hand how can we develop the science. And on the other hand, nature itself performs the same duties we ban from man. However, the Church points at nature not having intent, where the man has intent.
If you haven't read double effect it might help to read it. fyi- I'm trying to restrict this to the teaching as my personal opinion isn't always aligned.
@@whatsup3270I don’t understand your prophylactic point. Are you saying the church opposes vaccines too?
Man playing God never turns out well.
it is not playing god
@@tonypringles2285 Sure is.
I agree, the church puts itself ahead of scripture
Except "playing God" doesn't actually mean anything, it's more of a value judgement than a real descriptor. You could go back a few centuries, explain what we have today and people back then would say that vaccination is "playing God", or artificial intelligence is "playing God".
I'm not buying the first issue. you can have a mom and a dad who love each other and resort to IVF in order to have a baby- its a pro life position.
Same with me, to be honest. I agree with the 2nd and 3rd issue, but not the 1st
The issue is the planned loss of embryos.
God intended for every person to be brought about through the reunification of the cleaved flesh of Man and Woman.
What about the discarded embryos? How is that different from abortion?
life, as we know it , begins at conception , there a unique dna and genetic code after conception, if only around 7% of the eggs are implanted and the other discarded, in other worss killed, you cant be pro life and pro IVF..there is no coherence nor consistence in that stance
For me the biggest issue is with the people who is involved in the process, the way they treat human life as a product to freeze so it can be used latter, throw a bunch of them there so one sticks the landing and aborting the excess product ... Quite inhuman. And the single fact that around 70% of embryos die in the process is quite messed up too...
I think it's very important to restrain man with limits. Man should not cheapen life.
No, it is not a problem, it is a solution.
Sorry father but this is the way of the world and many people who can’t have children will do this, either the church will debate to see this is not immoral and an obvious act of God to allow life where nothing was possible naturally. I work in the field and we are all hopeful that all our patients can have the children they cannot naturally have on their own. Just saying, if helping women have children they will love and care for, pretty sure Jesus would approve.
Frankly, if anything brings me away from the catholic church, it will be this rhetoric. I work in IVF; we see loving couples able to have loving families, and there is no more fulfilling area than helping people build a family. IVF is no more sinful than the act of procreation itself. Saying that doctors shouldnt be involved is as silly as saying doctors shouldnt treat other conditions, some people have a natural difficulty procreating, using medicine to help is no different than using medicine to treat other conditions. As per the abortion point, not once have I seen babies being chosen and aborted in the uterus, idk where you got that from.
Claiming that IVF is somehow "undignified" is completely a matter of opinion. One might argue that it is in fact MORE dignified than the natural way. It's completely subjective.
I doubt anyone who came into the world this way has any angst about it *unless someone puts it in their head that they should feel inferior about it*.
It's far more transactional and exploitative to forces a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant to carry to term for some infertile couple to adopt. THAT is an affront to the intrinsic human worth of the woman or girl whose body is being used for someone else's benefit.
A couple that I know sought surrogacy, with the use of their genetic material but an unrelated woman would carry, and they specifically wanted twin girls. I can't say I'm terribly heartbroken that it didn't work out very early in the process. What if they'd only had boy embryos?
But not all couples can get a baby "naturally." Should they be denied the joy of parenthood when a solution is available?
I notice than no one wants to answer this which is also my question......
Children are not a "right" that is owed to anyone. They are a gift that some people receive and others do not.
Children are not a commodity
I think if children are born out of pure, boundless love (whether naturally or through ivf) they are sent through Our Merciful and loving Lord. If that is a sin committed by the parents then that is something the Lord will decide when the time comes not man. For now, He has provided a way for couples in need through science and we should all be thankful because He could’ve easily not provided that.
Simple answer: adoption. There is nothing more beautiful than caring for a child that was not wanted or has no one else.
This does clarify a question I’ve had. Due to health issues I ended up was an unplanned tubal ligation. I was in surgery & even after signing do what you need to they checked with my mother is she was okay that if I ever had children it would be through IVF. Didn’t get at the time why they stressed that so much. It being a catholic hospital I get it now.
Thanks for your videos, they help a lot.
The amount of people in this comment section that think having biological children is a human right is mind boggling...
it is though. how is it not? you should be allowed to have a kid, do you think the church should control when you have children??
@@tonypringles2285 Having children is a right. Having biological children isn’t. I’m unable to have a biological child, this would not justify using an immoral method to make my wife pregnant. Nobody’s saying the Church should dictate who gets kids.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai oh please you know for a fact the catholic church would for sure take control of who gets kids lol. and ivf is not immoral, god made it for us so we can use it
@@tonypringles2285 Brother, I’d rather we didn’t engage in unsubstantiated slander which has no connection to the topic. I haven’t made a single extraneous insult about the Governing Body you submit to, but I certainly could. The Church is not perfect, but that is because, like every other Earthly institution, it has fallen humans in it. Do you insert a ridiculous display of anti-Catholic bias every time you talk to one of us? Do you say the same thing about the Presbyterian Church of the USA? What about the Anglicans? Or is it just the Catholics acting as sleeper agents?
God did not make IVF, the same way He did not make Eugenic Selection. Just because it’s possible through the use of scientific means doesn’t mean it’s moral or of God.
@@tonypringles2285 I think my response was blocked. Sort comments by “Newest” to see it.
This is probably where we differentiate on opinion I personally see no problem with it. Especially since some people I know personally were born that way.
I know what you mean. Can you agree that discarding or freezing unused embryos is wrong, or do you not think they count as human?
@@CatholicElectricianif they do miscarriages are babies murdered by God
I would say that a IVF offspring is glad that the years and years their parents tried and went through difficulties trying to conceive and having failures shows that they love each-other and their child immensely. This is also where I differentiate with the Catholic Church.
@@CatholicElectrician an embryo is not a person though
@@tonypringles2285 I didn’t ask if it was a person, I asked if it was human
and yet, second class dignity is there and authoritatively assigned. i am sorry, but i don`t think evangelization and motivational speeches should come as close as they do in this video. the church is abandoned by people to which it has awarded second hand dignity and the more people like you talk about it, the more nothing gets done. the true mark of humility is silence. maybe there should be more of it.
Can you do a video comparing Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy?
Wrll said Father. The sin is committed and doctors, parents, and all those involved have confession available because God is a merciful Father. God is the only creator of Life!
"Lack of Humility to accept God's will". Does that apply to cancer treatments, other health care options too? IVF is NOT creating life.
Glasses and hormones and aspirin should all fall under the same net then.
@@drewidlifestyle7883 how so?
I often enjoy your videos but I struggle with the church's perspective on this. Couples resort to IVF because they are desperate for a child and it feels like your video lacks compassion or understanding for these parents.
Of course he lacks compassion in this area. One of the issues I find with the requirement that priest be celibate is that they ,and by extension church , have no first hand experience of marriage/family life. They cannot understand it and in my experience look down on it because they are forced to suppress their own desires.
So long as all embryos are given a chance at life I have no issue with IVF, a month of daily injections and multiple other medical procedures with no promise of success seems like a huge act of love to me. Not every egg exposed to seamen fertilise, not every embryo implants and not every pregnancy results in a healthy live birth. It's still very much up to the will of God even if a couple uses ivf.
The entire process is unnatural. No doubt about that. It's actually really clear to see why the church has an issue with this. Having men play god in a laboratory with some fluid samples is as artificial as it can get.
Are there any conditions in which you would find it unethical to create embryos and insert them into a human? Think of people with foolish requests.
@@nicoletait5702 this is how I feel after watching this video
@@thomaswaldron187 Also the argument that IVF relinquishes control to doctors and biologists is frankly strange, because I'm pretty sure traditional pregnancies rely on doctors and biologists anyway. Without them, pregnancy would be way more dangerous for both the woman and the child, and similarly IVF is typically done when traditional conception proves either dangerous or impossible.
It really isn't a problem. Everything you explained is silly. The "how romantic" line is also very indicative of conservative Catholics weird obsession with making sure people f the right way. Like imagine saying "if yer partner doesn't climax, then its not an act of love"
God is the author of how relationships should be. Why is the word "romantic" weird? Best outcomes for children generally include both parents in a loving relationship
@@gobigorgohome3745 first, the god is an author thing doesn't stand up under historical scrutiny. Abrahamic cultural and scriptural ideas of what a loving relationship is has changed over time. second, commenting or deciding how romantic one form insemination is over another, is just weird. like it would be really weird if you told your parents you were pregnant, and they asked "did he come inside you or did you use a needle?" and then they judged your love for one another based on the answer.
@@kutsopalso historically, marriage and procreation was more of a political and economic tool than out of “love”. Whether the husband loved his wife didn’t matter, whether the wife loved her husband *super* didn’t matter, what mattered is what both families got out of the arrangement. Also the women were basically barred from having real professions, so marrying up wasn’t really a choice for most.
I still remember reading about how in Ancient Rome, some senators actively got made fun of for actually liking their wives.
I, a lutheran, back this position
It’s weird. Your videos in years past almost brought me back to the Catholic Church. This years videos have convinced that my decision to leave was correct.
Wish you the best but I feel your videos have become less sympathetic.
Brothers and sisters, trust God when you pray it works. He said all we need to do is ask in prayers. My testimony spans from penury to $57,000 bimonthly, and you stay and doubt that he doesn't answer prayers. Make that altar now and spend time there. A change is in the way. Amen!!!
That's a major win for you. Congratulations on this feat
How do you get so much in that period of time???
Please more about the bimonthly thing you just mentioned
She changed the game big time for me
What community is that, I'm really interested in knowing how you go about that
This is why I'm not Catholic. The fact that anyone has a problem with IVF is insanity.
I gave you three very clear reasons
@BreakingInTheHabit and it's still insane.
The most important objection is what happens to the "surplus" embryos not chosen. When we decide who should live, and who should not, the door to applying the same principle of expediency or eugenics to any human being is wide open, whether they are born or not, whether they are young or old.
I think it is prudent to remember that the vast majority of those embryos would not make it to term anyway. They have the potential for life, but that’s it.
@@steampunkedbull The point is not that most would not make it to term, but that none of them makes it to term based on eugenics and convenience. And who are we to decide who should live up to its potential, and who should not?
@@steampunkedbullWould you be convinced by a similar argument for abortion? If it were the case that most children wouldn’t survive, should we stop trying to save them?
@@CatholicElectrician depends on what the abortion is for. If the child is only unwanted, then I would be against the abortion. If it had some horrible condition that wouldn’t allow it to live outside the womb, then there’s nothing to save, it’s already doomed to pass.
@@DeepJiesel it’s ultimately God deciding which ones make it to term and which ones don’t. Just like embryos in the womb conceived the regular way.
God's desire and no other.
Well this is going to be a interesting comment section
Any couple doing IvF is because there is a genuine fertility issue that makes natural procreation impossible for having a baby! Obviously yhose against IVF have never had issues or they would be more fair. Plus adoption is really competitive and expensive and could be also exploitative by giving the baby/child to the highest bidder and the middle class couples are told they dont make enough etc!! Surrogacy costs near 100,000 dollars so I doubt many middle class couples are going that route! Many in the Church then make infertile couples feel left out and like they arent blessed, but then dont allow IVF!
The core issue is the planned loss of embryos.
@@whatsup3270 Women have embryos die naturally each month and from natural conception as well, so really not much different!
@@theresastubblefield5706 Women have eggs die each month, not fertilised embryos, which is what the comment meant. The fertilised eggs which do die are equivalent to miscarriages and are tragic.
I am infertile and am against both IVF and surrogacy. The fact that adoption requires fees is a problem with America, not adoption. Most countries, including mine, do not require money for adoption.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai yeah, exactly, adoption would be competitive then! How does your country determine who gets a child if there's no fee, there would be a fight!
TL;DR, conception is a labor of love, not a fancy science project.
Jesus realizing he wasn’t born from love 😮😮😮😮
nope. ivf is fine
@@drewidlifestyle7883 You should understand what love even is, to understand Jesus was born from the purest love there can be. Be careful about condemning yourself with such blasphemies, dear brother. Thou, is probable that you not even believe in God or something like that, yet here you are in devouring Catholic religious videos for some self-projection reason. So that's that.
God bless.
They usually only resort to the fancy science project when traditional pregnancies would prove difficult and/or dangerous. I'm not exactly sure how a woman risking her or her future child's life is more of a "labor of love" than doing something safer.
Except the “fancy science project” is typically only resorted to when traditional pregnancy would prove to be dangerous or impossible.
I think if children are born out of pure, boundless love (whether naturally or through ivf) they are sent through Our Merciful and loving Lord. If that is a sin committed by the parents then that is something the Lord will decide when the time comes not man. For now, He has provided a way for couples in need through science and we should all be thankful because He could’ve easily not provided that.
God did not provide a way to have a child that involves creating embryos just to destroy them. God can redeem what man has done, but do not call sin a gift from God.
we now have these options lets not look for problems.but we do have to keep in mind the ethical problems, is the new child loved?
god has set us some problems to consider.
I would not judge a couple for having a kid. Objective vs subjective states of being in this world. It’s not easy to adopt and so many people cannot have kids bc of cancer treatments etc. Especially after the church abuse that has been present in Catholicism since Saint Peter Damian. Care to make a video just on that I guess not.
Perhaps the problem we should be addressing as a society is why it is so hard (and expensive) to adopt. That should not be used as an excuse to use IVF (which usually takes longer and costs more than the adoption process).
If abortion is a death cult, then IVF is a life cult.
We cherish life, as given, and dictated by God. We don't fear death, as shown and sanctified by Jesus.
Christianity is the perfect center.
The road to hell is paved by good intentions... ivf at first glance seems like a moral good. But the "devil" is in the details.
I keep trying to comment without getting angry and it’s very difficult.
I think.
This video, was made without proper empathy and is problematic
I feel like that's hard to conclude but okay. You can have empathy and understand that playing God in a laboratory with some bodily fluids is at the very least, questionable. Just because we can meddle with baby creation doesn't mean we should.
@@robblaettler4589 to claim a child born using IVF is not born from love is legitimately a horrible unempathetic thing to say
It’s not hard to conclude that
I have always had a problem with life begins at conception, because about 50% of conceived embryos do not emplant in the uterus and pass out with regular menstruation. This is usually because of severe genetic problems in the embryo. Women do not even know they have a fertilized an egg. Should we treat every period as a potential stillborn? Has God placed souls in these 1 week old embryos, to now wait for the second coming? Will they rise in the afterlife as embryos? As severely damaged people? I am a practicing Catholic, but I also have a degree in genetics. It doesn't seem to me that God imparts life at the moment of conception. By your own argument, that would make Him immoral for sacrificing so many embryos. We can argue that God, not man should be making this choice, but to claim that life is sacred from the moment of conception seems unfair to God.
I recommend that you investigate the "problem of evil". Because this might address your concerns about God being "immoral for sacrificing so many" children.
Life is transmitted, even in the petri dish two life forms meet and become one new form, which is a combination of the two earlier forms. The Church teaches we are to treat that as an entombed soul. That new person will also pass away as all do. Some estimates as up 80% of us pass away before the first anniversary of birth. They estimate up to 70% were never known to have exist. This is all part of the sanctity of life.
@@whatsup3270you all keep saying “the church teaches”
Cite scripture
I'm also thinking the same but have no words to describe it as I don't have a degree in this area. "When does life begin? Does it begin at conception or at implantation, or somewhere else?"
@@drewidlifestyle7883 The request is reasonable but erred, Catholic Church teachings are Catechism not scripture. And all Church teachings are tied together with an overall plan. It is critical not to take a sentence or paragraph and assume it over rides all other aspects. So please bear that in mind as we proceed
Catechism : 2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) are perhaps less reprehensible, yet remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children." "Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union . . . . Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person."
Scripture references :
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Isaiah 49:5
And now the Lord says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him- for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord, and my God has become my strength-
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you peoples from afar. The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother he named my name.
Psalm 139:1-24
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. ...
Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Psalm 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Psalm 139:13
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Isaiah 44:2
Thus says the Lord who made you, who formed you from the womb and will help you: Fear not, O Jacob my servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Luke 1:41
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit,
Job 31:15
Did not he who made me in the womb make him? And did not one fashion us in the womb?
Jeremiah 1:1-19
The words of Jeremiah, the son of Hilkiah, one of the priests who were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin, to whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, and until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah, the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the captivity of Jerusalem in the fifth month. Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” ...
Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Luke 1:15
For he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
TL; DW It's very... fandangled.
Several folks have posed questions to me. My answers have been deleted. It reminds me of the Catholic Church’s Index of Forbidden Books which was instituted in 1559 and lasted for almost four centuries until officially abolished in 1966 by Pope Paul VI. So apparently, we have here an Index of Forbidden Posts.
That’s a problem with TH-cam, are there any words in your posts which may cause a shadowban? This can be something as ridiculous as s*x.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai I asked ChatGPT if any words in my post, which contained no harassment, misinformation or hate speech but did relate the sequence of events that resulted in the appointment of Supreme Court Justices, cause it to be deleted. After providing ChatGPT with the pertinent details of my post, the reply stated nothing in my post would cause it to be deleted.
@@F84Thunderjet sometimes it’s random I think. I commented as well but it ain’t showing up. It’s probably just glitched. I think the length of the comment can effect it to.
@@F84Thunderjet A.I deletes many posts. Adding references causes posts to be deleted. Long detailed posts which cover the question well are usually deleted (why I have no idea). And creators are allowed to delete posts. This is on ALL channels. If you have a remaining question, please repost it. I have often had to make 3-9 small posts to explain the issue, as a single post of the same will not be allowed.
who are yall to decide this science can’t be used by people who aren’t catholic??
One route rarely taken is trying to give life to "snowflakes" - the frozen embryos with no home, so to speak. Two women in my life have done this with mixed success. At least it's giving them a chance.
While I respect these beliefs, please don't make them law for those of us who don't share them.
As an atheist, I have watched your videos with admiration as I considered you to be more open minded than other priests.
It looks like I was wrong, I don't like your opinions on IVF at all. The fact that an egg cell is fertilized in a dish does not mean that the child is not born and raised from the love of the parents. The embryo, and later the faetus still grow in the mother's womb and get the nutrients and the building blocks from the mother. IVF is an alternative just for one step, not for the whole process.
And to say that an IVF conceived child is not born from the love of the parents is simply wrong. If the parents love each other sincereley and cooperate in order to create a loving home for the child to be raised into, it has no relevance how the egg was fertilized.
I hope that all the countries that call themselves free and democratic will respect the separation of the church and the state and will not ban IVF just because the church says so.
I am glad that I am an atheist and that I take decisions based on my reason and not on what an imaginary god in the sky says. If me or my future wife will have fertility problems, I am sure that I will try IVF.
"more open minded than other priests" meaning you expected him to directly contradict official Church doctrine? Even if he wanted to support IVF, doing so would constitute mortal sin and supporting it publicly could get him excommunicated.
The Church is at its best when it teaches, and at its worse when it dictates.
Personally I agree with you on the topic of love. Creating a human being through IVF and taking care of it in a loving and intended way is the most important thing and in my opinion strongly outweighs the "sins" he claimed. Nontheless, as a religious person, I don't back the attitude you ended your argument with. Your point of view is not validated by ridiculing the beliefs of others, as you are only creating a harsh atmosphere of conversation and therefore hinder your own argument from being taken (deservedly) seriously.
Do you support abortion then, and believe the church should stay out of it as well? You can call it arbitrary and opposed to reason, but there is real truth and beauty in the preservation of human life and dignity at every stage
Thank you for this clear explanation! 🍁
i think the catholic church should come out against organ donations. god didn’t give you that liver.